From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> Subject: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 18:08:08 +0200 Lines: 58 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-27-56.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 21 Apr 2003 19:38:02 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-27-56.mweb.co.za Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-27-56.mweb.co.za Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5028 "Rich" wrote in message news:3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca... > Here's my latest 'ponder'....if a Reiki practitioner got a measurable > result everytime he/she > did a Reiki session, just by 'hands on' (or distance), how simple would > Reiki be? Do we add extras > because we feel 'basic' Reiki isn't sufficient? Is it sufficient? That's > my homework for next week! One of the basic principles of operation in Western culture is More + Bigger = Better If something does not yeld an instantaneous result, we try more of it if that does not seem to work then we try something bigger, larger, more powerful the aim in both cases is to make things "better" Many alternative health practitioners would apply this thinking to their practice as well, including the practice of Reiki.. If Reiki does not give the desired (instantaneous) result, try more in the form of crystals, pendulums, aromatherapy oils, etc. Once I realize that most, if not all, our problems come from having "too much", thinking too much, doing too much, trying to be "too much", it becomes obvious what a fundamental error this is. With a client it compounds their problem as it leaves them with the impression that this is the right way to operate in order to solve their "problem". But instead of solving it by losing the stuff they don't need, they continue to heap problem upon problem. Then they try more Reiki, then a different "Reiki", then a "better Reiki". What it boils down to is a lack of faith in the workings of the Reiki, or to be more general, the universe. If I really have faith in the power of Reiki why would I need anything else? What could that add to the practice? And would the client not have the same question? If it works, was it the crystals, the magic inantations recited, the icons on the wall, the incense in the air, or Reiki which made the difference? This is what I see as my practitioners view, the clients view may be somewhat different. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:12 +0100 (BST) Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1050948759 5618747 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5037 (pr) wrote: > What it boils down to is a lack of faith in the workings > of the Reiki, or to be more general, the universe. > If I really have faith in the power of Reiki why would > I need anything else? Nail on the head, Peter .... Although it's difficult for the lay person to trust (and I'm thinking of Theo's recent sigline) without the additional mumbo-jumbo ... caught in a cleft stick in an enigma within a paradox between a rock and a hard place ... ;) Stuart ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:52 +0100 (BST) Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <3EA43F0F.5616332C@ch.inter.net> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1050954785 5519788 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5046 (Theo) wrote: > (I am still trying to find out the sigline to say that in > very short) ):-) How about: "It's all bollocks" - Descartes or "It's all bollocks and I don't care" - Nietzsche Stuart ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 06:38:12 +0200 Lines: 38 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-168.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 24 Apr 2003 06:00:10 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-168.mweb.co.za Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-168.mweb.co.za Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5105 "Theo" wrote in message news:3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net... > pr wrote: > > > "Rich" wrote in message news:3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca... > > > > > Here's my latest 'ponder'....if a Reiki practitioner got a measurable > > > result everytime he/she > > > did a Reiki session, just by 'hands on' (or distance), how simple would > > > Reiki be? Do we add extras > > > because we feel 'basic' Reiki isn't sufficient? Is it sufficient? That's > > > my homework for next week! > > > > One of the basic principles of operation in Western culture is > > More + Bigger = Better > > better is the ennemy of good Good, better, they are the enemy of real understanding. A story (I have many): A monk walks past a butchery. He hears a woman saying to the butcher: "We have important visitors tonight, give me the best piece of meat you have." The butcher answers: "Here, in my shop, everything is best." Upon hearing that the monk was suddenly enlightened. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 42 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:52:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news1.calgary.shaw.ca 1051195934 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:52:14 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:52:14 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.newsfeed.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news1.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5179 Exploring my 'ponder' is certainly taking me in interesting directions! Several authors (sociologist, psychologist, mythologists, etc.) seem to infer that we need ceremony/ritual and will go to great lengths to add it where it doesn't exist. The purpose is to touch the depths of humans, to create a desired atmosphere, to open or prepare the participants for a teaching, to relax, to move the mind from the 'day-to-day' mundane and place it in the sublime, etc. etc. Some researchers infer that there could be more power in the ceremony than in the actual healing/teaching exercise. Here is a quote I found in some literature on ceremony. Cool! "Of course it was not I who cured. It was the power from the outer world, and the visions and ceremonies had only made me like a hole through which the power would come to the two-leggeds. If I thought that I was doing it myself, the hole would close up and no power would come through it." Black Elk, Oglala Sioux Medicine Man (Black Elk Speaks) "To know and to not do, is to not yet know." Peace Rich > Good, better, they are the enemy of real understanding. > > A story (I have many): > A monk walks past a butchery. He hears a woman > saying to the butcher: "We have important visitors tonight, > give me the best piece of meat you have." The butcher > answers: "Here, in my shop, everything is best." > Upon hearing that the monk was suddenly enlightened. > > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:03:48 +0100 Lines: 52 Message-ID: <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1051200291 19804 194.222.30.223 (24 Apr 2003 16:04:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:04:51 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy.rigby Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5147 In article <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca>, Rich writes >Exploring my 'ponder' is certainly taking me in interesting directions! >Several authors (sociologist, psychologist, mythologists, etc.) seem to >infer >that we need ceremony/ritual and will go to great lengths to add it >where it >doesn't exist. The purpose is to touch the depths of humans, to create a >desired atmosphere, to open or prepare the participants for a teaching, >to relax, >to move the mind from the 'day-to-day' mundane and place it in the >sublime, etc. etc. "Man loves complexity and calls it knowledge. A great many societies and institutions in the world which call themselves occult and esoteric and psychic and by various other names, knowing that everyone is interested in complexity, cover the truth; and instead of covering it with one cover they cover it with a thousand covers to make it more interesting. It is just like customs which were followed in ancient times when people came to worship and asked the priest how they should do it, and he would say, 'How far do you live from the shrine?' And when they said, 'Two miles,' he answered, 'You must come on foot to the shrine and walk around it a hundred times before you may enter it.' He gave them a good exercise before they were allowed to come in. And ever, today they do the same thing. When a person says, 'I want to see truth', but wishes to look for truth in complexity, they cover truth under a thousand covers and then they give him the problem to solve. Are there not many people interested in the Mahatmas of the Himalayas, are there not many interested in the holy souls in remote places of Persia, many who look for a master in the center of Australia? Perhaps next year an article will appear declaring that a great soul has been born in Siberia. What is it all about? It is all the love of complexity, queer notions, strange ideas which do not lead souls any further. Therefore a mystic very often appears to be simple, because sincerity makes him feel inclined to express the truth in simple language and in simple ideas. But because people value complexity, they think that what he says is too simple and that it is something which they have always known, that it is nothing new. But, as Solomon said, there is nothing new under the sun." The Message of Hazrat Inayat Khan THE MESSAGE VOLUMES - SUFI MYSTICISM - The Mystic -- Judy http://members.lycos.co.uk/bluelotusrising/index.html http://www.rigbys.demon.co.uk ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <3EA812DB.C2B73AA9@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:38:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news1.calgary.shaw.ca 1051202317 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:38:37 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:38:37 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!cyclone.bc.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news1.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5178 Very good. There is another quote that goes something like, 'If you build it, and build it, and build it, and build it, they will come.' Rich Judy Rigby wrote: > > In article <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca>, Rich writes > >Exploring my 'ponder' is certainly taking me in interesting directions! > >Several authors (sociologist, psychologist, mythologists, etc.) seem to > >infer > >that we need ceremony/ritual and will go to great lengths to add it > >where it > >doesn't exist. The purpose is to touch the depths of humans, to create a > >desired atmosphere, to open or prepare the participants for a teaching, > >to relax, > >to move the mind from the 'day-to-day' mundane and place it in the > >sublime, etc. etc. > > ###### Message-ID: <3EA832D3.52002940@ch.inter.net> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:54:11 +0200 From: Theo Reply-To: no-spam-byjoke@ch.inter.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------DAAA65CA1AACBA96EEF34BA2" NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.36.52 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.36.52 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1051210449 213.3.36.52 (24 Apr 2003 20:54:09 +0200) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 151 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5093 --------------DAAA65CA1AACBA96EEF34BA2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI Judy I loved especially the last part that I re-taylored a lil' bit ... > Just because people value complexity, they think that what > one says is too simple and that it is something which they have always > known, that it is nothing new...and... they walk past the enlightment . > Theo Judy Rigby wrote: > In article <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca>, Rich writes > >Exploring my 'ponder' is certainly taking me in interesting directions! > >Several authors (sociologist, psychologist, mythologists, etc.) seem to > >infer > >that we need ceremony/ritual and will go to great lengths to add it > >where it > >doesn't exist. The purpose is to touch the depths of humans, to create a > >desired atmosphere, to open or prepare the participants for a teaching, > >to relax, > >to move the mind from the 'day-to-day' mundane and place it in the > >sublime, etc. etc. > > > "Man loves complexity and calls it knowledge. A great many societies and > institutions in the world which call themselves occult and esoteric and > psychic and by various other names, knowing that everyone is interested > in complexity, cover the truth; and instead of covering it with one > cover they cover it with a thousand covers to make it more interesting. > It is just like customs which were followed in ancient times when people > came to worship and asked the priest how they should do it, and he would > say, 'How far do you live from the shrine?' And when they said, 'Two > miles,' he answered, 'You must come on foot to the shrine and walk > around it a hundred times before you may enter it.' He gave them a good > exercise before they were allowed to come in. And ever, today they do > the same thing. When a person says, 'I want to see truth', but wishes to > look for truth in complexity, they cover truth under a thousand covers > and then they give him the problem to solve. Are there not many people > interested in the Mahatmas of the Himalayas, are there not many > interested in the holy souls in remote places of Persia, many who > look for a master in the center of Australia? Perhaps next year an > article will appear declaring that a great soul has been born in > Siberia. What is it all about? It is all the love of complexity, queer > notions, strange ideas which do not lead souls any further. > > Therefore a mystic very often appears to be simple, because sincerity > makes him feel inclined to express the truth in simple language and in > simple ideas. But because people value complexity, they think that what > he says is too simple and that it is something which they have always > known, that it is nothing new. But, as Solomon said, there is nothing > new under the sun." > > The Message of Hazrat Inayat Khan > THE MESSAGE VOLUMES - SUFI MYSTICISM - The Mystic > > -- > Judy > http://members.lycos.co.uk/bluelotusrising/index.html > http://www.rigbys.demon.co.uk -- How can You put trust in me if I do not trust in Me? Theo http://www.byjoke.com/ --------------DAAA65CA1AACBA96EEF34BA2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI Judy I loved   especially the last part that I   re-taylored a lil' bit ... 
Just because people value complexity, they think that what
one says is too simple and that it is something which they have always
known, that it is nothing new...and... they walk past the enlightment .
 Theo
 

Judy Rigby wrote:

In article <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca>, Rich <rorlesky@shaw.ca> writes
>Exploring my 'ponder' is certainly taking me in interesting directions!
>Several authors (sociologist, psychologist, mythologists, etc.) seem to
>infer
>that we need ceremony/ritual and will go to great lengths to add it
>where it
>doesn't exist. The purpose is to touch the depths of humans, to create a
>desired atmosphere, to open or prepare the participants for a teaching,
>to relax,
>to move the mind from the 'day-to-day' mundane and place it in the
>sublime, etc. etc.
 

"Man loves complexity and calls it knowledge. A great many societies and
institutions in the world which call themselves occult and esoteric and
psychic and by various other names, knowing that everyone is interested
in complexity, cover the truth; and instead of covering it with one
cover they cover it with a thousand covers to make it more interesting.
It is just like customs which were followed in ancient times when people
came to worship and asked the priest how they should do it, and he would
say, 'How far do you live from the shrine?' And when they said, 'Two
miles,' he answered, 'You must come on foot to the shrine and walk
around it a hundred times before you may enter it.' He gave them a good
exercise before they were allowed to come in. And ever, today they do
the same thing. When a person says, 'I want to see truth', but wishes to
look for truth in complexity, they cover truth under a thousand covers
and then they give him the problem to solve. Are there not many people
interested in the Mahatmas of the Himalayas, are there not many
interested in the holy souls in remote places of Persia, many who
look for a master in the center of Australia? Perhaps next year an
article will appear declaring that a great soul has been born in
Siberia. What is it all about? It is all the love of complexity, queer
notions, strange ideas which do not lead souls any further.

Therefore a mystic very often appears to be simple, because sincerity
makes him feel inclined to express the truth in simple language and in
simple ideas. But because people value complexity, they think that what
he says is too simple and that it is something which they have always
known, that it is nothing new. But, as Solomon said, there is nothing
new under the sun."

The Message of Hazrat Inayat Khan
THE MESSAGE VOLUMES - SUFI MYSTICISM - The Mystic

--
Judy
http://members.lycos.co.uk/bluelotusrising/index.html
http://www.rigbys.demon.co.uk

--
How can You put trust in me if I do not trust in Me?
 Theo
http://www.byjoke.com/
  --------------DAAA65CA1AACBA96EEF34BA2-- ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 47 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:57:24 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news1.calgary.shaw.ca 1051214244 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:57:24 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:57:24 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.newsfeed.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news1.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5175 Hi Judy, So much discussion in the literature about what 'wholeness' means. It usually consists of 'someone's definition' accompanied by the 'solution, answer, etc.' which just coincidentally happens to be what that person's personal 'expertise' is. Since what drives human beings are personal statements like, "This isn't it. I'm not good enough. Something is wrong here. He/she knows better than me because...., etc.', It's not surprising that we seek the complexity, in hopes of covering all the bases. It is amazing how astute the early philosophers were. To have said, "If we were all to sing and dance, most of our problems would disappear." is brilliant. Where are the mystics of today? What are the credentials? Hey, maybe the position is open! Want to jump in? > > Therefore a mystic very often appears to be simple, because sincerity > makes him feel inclined to express the truth in simple language and in > simple ideas. But because people value complexity, they think that what > he says is too simple and that it is something which they have always > known, that it is nothing new. But, as Solomon said, there is nothing > new under the sun." > ,snip> I have heard it said that change/healing/transformation occurs when we are willing to have our 'already-knowing' challenged. What I state as my indisputable 'stand' today might look quite different tomorrow. It is difficult to see what our stand is until we throw it out into the public arena, not as 'truth' but as 'inquiry'. Being challenged is part of trying to fit it all together. In the olden days there used to be Low Mass and High Mass. (still?) The High Mass had all the incense, choir, grandiosity, etc. and some folks said they would never go to Low Mass. How would a mystic react to the two? Can you have High Reiki and Low Reiki? Rich ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:53:26 +0100 Lines: 77 Message-ID: References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1051217617 16685 194.222.30.223 (24 Apr 2003 20:53:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 20:53:37 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!newsfeed3.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!fi.sn.net!newsfeed2.fi.sn.net!news100.image.dk!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy.rigby Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5152 Hello Rich I *was* quoting Hazrat Inayat Khan there, with not a word changed ... just to be utterly crystal clear it wasn't me :) In article <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca>, Rich writes > >So much discussion in the literature about what 'wholeness' means. I like the idea of it being about re-membering. A re-collection of the basic truth we are all born knowing, but which we become blinded to by exposure to the world. >Where are the >mystics of today? >What are the credentials? >Hey, maybe the position is open! Want to jump in? What are the terms & conditions ? Holiday pay ? Is it a union shop ? >I have heard it said that change/healing/transformation occurs when we >are willing to have our 'already-knowing' challenged. >What I state as my indisputable 'stand' today might look quite different >tomorrow. >It is difficult to see what our stand is until we throw it out into the >public arena, >not as 'truth' but as 'inquiry'. Being challenged is part of trying to >fit it all together. I'm not sure "challenge" is necessarily the right term here. Challenges have a horrible tendency to make people entrench rather than flex, I find. Perhaps it's more a case of transformation occurring when we develop the will to be open to other possibilities ... ? (Incidentally, I have always had difficulty with the concept of "my truth", which allows for someone else's "my truth" to be completely at odds. I can cope with "my experience shows this", but I really like the definition of "Truth" as something which isn't quite so subject to the vagaries of individual existence.) >In the olden days there used to be Low Mass and High Mass. (still?) >The High Mass had all the incense, >choir, grandiosity, etc. and some folks said they would never go to Low >Mass. Oh yes. So far as I know, both are still going strong in certain quarters. The basic difference is that a High Mass is celebrated by a priest along with a deacon, subdeacon & various acolytes. It's sung (traditionally in Latin), whereas in a Low Mass the liturgy is spoken, and the celebrant is alone with one server. It tends to be shorter too because there's no sermon. >How would a mystic react to the two? Who can say ? I think any kind of service of whatever faith would have very particular meaning to a true mystic ... >Can you have High Reiki and Low >Reiki? Of course. Some of us like the incense and ... grandiosity, and others of us prefer to practice in a way so low key as to be barely perceptible. It's probably all the same in the long run ... -- Judy http://members.lycos.co.uk/bluelotusrising/index.html http://www.rigbys.demon.co.uk ###### Message-ID: <3EA8CD34.CF58C358@ch.inter.net> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 07:52:52 +0200 From: Theo Reply-To: no-spam-byjoke@ch.inter.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.73.6 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.73.6 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1051249968 213.3.73.6 (25 Apr 2003 07:52:48 +0200) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 73 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5114 Right what you say and old wise said ancient times people were having group dance and rituals and people though working hard had less ( apparent) problems than today, could sweat all out we have plenty of things to be happy and we live as l as if closed into an armour without communication and with our problems .. My vision is often to paint a huge open square with a lot of people and each single person is sorrounded by a circular brick wall Being politically correct and not intruding into others life is a great thing but also created indifference and added a few others bricks to the wall Love and light to everybody Theo Rich wrote: > Hi Judy, > > So much discussion in the literature about what 'wholeness' means. It > usually consists of > 'someone's definition' accompanied by the 'solution, answer, etc.' which > just coincidentally > happens to be what that person's personal 'expertise' is. Since what > drives > human beings are personal statements like, "This isn't it. I'm not good > enough. Something > is wrong here. He/she knows better than me because...., etc.', > It's not surprising that we seek the complexity, in hopes of covering > all the bases. > It is amazing how astute the early philosophers were. To have said, "If > we were all to sing and dance, > most of our problems would disappear." is brilliant. Where are the > mystics of today? > What are the credentials? > Hey, maybe the position is open! Want to jump in? > > > > > > Therefore a mystic very often appears to be simple, because sincerity > > makes him feel inclined to express the truth in simple language and in > > simple ideas. But because people value complexity, they think that what > > he says is too simple and that it is something which they have always > > known, that it is nothing new. But, as Solomon said, there is nothing > > new under the sun." > > > ,snip> > > I have heard it said that change/healing/transformation occurs when we > are willing to have our 'already-knowing' challenged. > What I state as my indisputable 'stand' today might look quite different > tomorrow. > It is difficult to see what our stand is until we throw it out into the > public arena, > not as 'truth' but as 'inquiry'. Being challenged is part of trying to > fit it all together. > In the olden days there used to be Low Mass and High Mass. (still?) > The High Mass had all the incense, > choir, grandiosity, etc. and some folks said they would never go to Low > Mass. > How would a mystic react to the two? Can you have High Reiki and Low > Reiki? > > Rich -- How can You put trust in me if I do not trust in Me? Theo http://www.byjoke.com/ ###### From: montanevine@netidea.com (montane) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:18:50 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 89 Message-ID: <3ea93555.83334803@news.netidea.com> References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-429.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5126 This is an interesting and worthwhile thread. But for some reason (can anyone tell me why?), Rich's posts are not showing on my software. Blessings, montane On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:53:26 +0100, Judy Rigby wrote: > >Hello Rich > >I *was* quoting Hazrat Inayat Khan there, with not a word changed ... >just to be utterly crystal clear it wasn't me :) > > >In article <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca>, Rich writes >> >>So much discussion in the literature about what 'wholeness' means. > >I like the idea of it being about re-membering. A re-collection of the >basic truth we are all born knowing, but which we become blinded to by >exposure to the world. > > >>Where are the >>mystics of today? >>What are the credentials? >>Hey, maybe the position is open! Want to jump in? > >What are the terms & conditions ? Holiday pay ? Is it a union shop ? > > >>I have heard it said that change/healing/transformation occurs when we >>are willing to have our 'already-knowing' challenged. >>What I state as my indisputable 'stand' today might look quite different >>tomorrow. >>It is difficult to see what our stand is until we throw it out into the >>public arena, >>not as 'truth' but as 'inquiry'. Being challenged is part of trying to >>fit it all together. > >I'm not sure "challenge" is necessarily the right term here. Challenges >have a horrible tendency to make people entrench rather than flex, I >find. Perhaps it's more a case of transformation occurring when we >develop the will to be open to other possibilities ... ? > >(Incidentally, I have always had difficulty with the concept of "my >truth", which allows for someone else's "my truth" to be completely at >odds. I can cope with "my experience shows this", but I really like the >definition of "Truth" as something which isn't quite so subject to the >vagaries of individual existence.) > > > >>In the olden days there used to be Low Mass and High Mass. (still?) >>The High Mass had all the incense, >>choir, grandiosity, etc. and some folks said they would never go to Low >>Mass. > >Oh yes. So far as I know, both are still going strong in certain >quarters. The basic difference is that a High Mass is celebrated by a >priest along with a deacon, subdeacon & various acolytes. It's sung >(traditionally in Latin), whereas in a Low Mass the liturgy is spoken, >and the celebrant is alone with one server. It tends to be shorter too >because there's no sermon. > > >>How would a mystic react to the two? > >Who can say ? I think any kind of service of whatever faith would have >very particular meaning to a true mystic ... > > > >>Can you have High Reiki and Low >>Reiki? > >Of course. Some of us like the incense and ... grandiosity, and others >of us prefer to practice in a way so low key as to be barely >perceptible. It's probably all the same in the long run ... > >-- >Judy >http://members.lycos.co.uk/bluelotusrising/index.html >http://www.rigbys.demon.co.uk ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 103 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:29:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news3.calgary.shaw.ca 1051284547 24.71.223.147 (Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:29:07 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:29:07 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news3.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5174 Hi Judy, We both got that my reference to 'build it' was that if we make our practice elaborate enough maybe we will get clients, right? Judy Rigby wrote: > > Hello Rich > > I *was* quoting Hazrat Inayat Khan there, with not a word changed ... > just to be utterly crystal clear it wasn't me :) > > In article <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca>, Rich writes > > > >So much discussion in the literature about what 'wholeness' means. > > I like the idea of it being about re-membering. A re-collection of the > basic truth we are all born knowing, but which we become blinded to by > exposure to the world. Okay, but the remembering is actually the result of a lot of 'work'. Once we have done the introspection, usually with guidance, we then 'know' what we have forgotten. No? The 'blindness' I would refer to as the Mind state where we are in survival.(of the Mind) > > >Where are the > >mystics of today? > >What are the credentials? > >Hey, maybe the position is open! Want to jump in? > > What are the terms & conditions ? Holiday pay ? Is it a union shop ? A good travel agent! After all, the folks in Tahiti, Bali, Acapulco, and Saskatchewan all need the services of a great mystic! > > >I have heard it said that change/healing/transformation occurs when we > >are willing to have our 'already-knowing' challenged. > I'm not sure "challenge" is necessarily the right term here. Challenges > have a horrible tendency to make people entrench rather than flex, I > find. Perhaps it's more a case of transformation occurring when we > develop the will to be open to other possibilities ... ? I see what you mean. So, step one would be creating the relatedness whereby 'challenge' wouldn't be a threat but an opportunity for a new possibility. However, given the tenacity of Mind to remain entrenched, there will have to be some kind of confrontation. Transformation is not involved in 'other possibilities',(read as 'change') but a total shift in how we 'be' in the world. Unfortunately, we think we 'be' different as a result of new info. > > (Incidentally, I have always had difficulty with the concept of "my > truth", which allows for someone else's "my truth" to be completely at > odds. I can cope with "my experience shows this", but I really like the > definition of "Truth" as something which isn't quite so subject to the > vagaries of individual existence.) Try to write a training manual (the truth?) that doesn't have everyone's perspective covered! Yipes! Lots of blank pages need to be left at the back for notes, explanations, etc. We usually consider 'what comes out of our mouths' to be the same as 'the truth'. After all, why would we spend the time saying 'untruths'? Adding 'my' and really being aware that it is 'my' seems to act like a check, and allows some room for the other person's input, don't you think? > Oh yes. So far as I know, both are still going strong in certain > quarters. The basic difference is that a High Mass is celebrated by a > priest along with a deacon, subdeacon & various acolytes. It's sung > (traditionally in Latin), There is something attractive about a ceremony in another language. With the atmosphere provided, you can supply everything else yourself, be in your own space and pray your way. (except for the annoying 'stand, sit, kneel) > > > >Can you have High Reiki and Low > >Reiki? > > Of course. Some of us like the incense and ... grandiosity, and others > of us prefer to practice in a way so low key as to be barely > perceptible. It's probably all the same in the long run ... Hmm. Say, have we gone full circle here? Peace Rich ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:47:46 +0100 Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1051289298 23412 194.222.30.223 (25 Apr 2003 16:48:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:48:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!nntp.theplanet.net!inewsm1.nntp.theplanet.net!195.40.4.120.MISMATCH!easynet-quince!easynet.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy.rigby Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5156 I confess. I always have problems holding my end up (as it were) in discussions of this kind because they make my head spin and I have a great desire to leave the machine, go outside and *breathe*. Which I don't fancy doing right now because it's raining. And it's going to get utterly confusing if I keep interposing comments between comments on comments on etc, so here's a clean slate, just on the "truth" bit. I hold a belief in absolute "Truth". With a capital "T". As being that which "is", beyond question. It's the "Truth" relating to the big questions ... existence of God/dess, the meaning of life, those sort of things. We can all hold differing beliefs, which would be accurately described as "my belief" relating to those questions, but whether any or all of our beliefs actually correspond to "Truth" is pretty difficult to know. Which is where I have difficulty when people describe what I would see as a "belief" as a "truth". Now I think on it, this is probably just a parallel with the confusion we see engendered by using the same word "Reiki" for both "energy" and "method(s)" ... ... oh, what a relief ! It's stopped raining ..... ;) In article <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca>, Rich writes >Hi Judy, > >Try to write a training manual (the truth?) that doesn't have everyone's >perspective covered! Yipes! Lots of blank pages need to be left at the >back for >notes, explanations, etc. We usually consider 'what comes out of our >mouths' to be >the same as 'the truth'. After all, why would we spend the time saying >'untruths'? >Adding 'my' and really being aware that it is 'my' seems to act like a >check, >and allows some room for the other person's input, don't you think? -- Judy http://members.lycos.co.uk/bluelotusrising/index.html http://www.rigbys.demon.co.uk ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3ea9b754.1317878@news.earthlink.net> References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3ea93555.83334803@news.netidea.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 23 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:30:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.247.135.35 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1051309813 165.247.135.35 (Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:30:13 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:30:13 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!news-in.nuthinbutnews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!wn14feed!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!207.217.77.102!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5137 On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:18:50 GMT, montanevine@netidea.com (montane) wrote: >This is an interesting and worthwhile thread. But for some reason (can >anyone tell me why?), Rich's posts are not showing on my software. > >Blessings, > >montane It might just be your ISP, Montane. Why don't you go to the Google website and read the group that way and compare with what your ISP is giving you. If it's really different, make a complaint to your ISP. BTW, it's a good idea to use the previous day's posts rather than the current days, because on Google it often takes 3-9 hours for a post to percolate through. Hope that helps! Namaskar, Garry ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:02 +0100 (BST) Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <3ea9b754.1317878@news.earthlink.net> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1051311758 8959047 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5158 (Nadie Niemand) wrote: > It might just be your ISP, Montane As I said ... blocking ... see .. http://www.newsadmin.com/cgi-bin/newsspam2?1 Stuart ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <3EA9D665.1C5D767C@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 60 Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:45:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news2.calgary.shaw.ca 1051317915 24.71.223.147 (Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:45:15 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:45:15 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news2.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5176 Judy Rigby wrote: > > I confess. I always have problems holding my end up (as it were) in > discussions of this kind because they make my head spin and I have a > great desire to leave the machine, go outside and *breathe*. Which I > don't fancy doing right now because it's raining. And it's going to get > utterly confusing if I keep interposing comments between comments on > comments on etc, so here's a clean slate, just on the "truth" bit. It's raining here too, and there is a heavy snowfall warning for tonite! Yep, I want to back away from the more serious 'stand your ground' discussions and I don't feel the slightest bit serious here. You? > > I hold a belief in absolute "Truth". With a capital "T". As being that > which "is", beyond question. It's the "Truth" relating to the big > questions ... existence of God/dess, the meaning of life, those sort of > things. When people are communicating and each knows the other's "Truth", and can be okay with it, there is a different level of speaking that is possible. Kind of a slow process in the newsgroups, wouldn't you say? Too bad there wasn't some kind of database of names that you could refer to and check what you were 'speaking into'. I believe in healthy skepticism. Skeptics can change. (Cynics don't.) Not sure where I belong when I revert to sarcasm! We can all hold differing beliefs, which would be accurately > described as "my belief" relating to those questions, but whether any or > all of our beliefs actually correspond to "Truth" is pretty difficult to > know. If you took a blank slate and deliberately designed your life, would your 'Truth' fit? Mostly we have some 'truths' and we try to design our life around them and our life is totally suppressed. I am trying to design Reiki into my life and not the other way around. Is that what everyone is doing and I haven't gotten it yet? Which is where I have difficulty when people describe what I would > see as a "belief" as a "truth". Now I think on it, this is probably just > a parallel with the confusion we see engendered by using the same word > "Reiki" for both "energy" and "method(s)" ... ... oh, what a relief ! It's stopped raining ..... ;) Still raining here. And I feel I am at the point where I need to just do more Reiki. I mean 'hands on'. Some of the books say that the more Reiki you do, the stronger the energy gets. Hmm. Do you suppose that's the Truth? :) Rich ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 06:18:43 +0200 Lines: 52 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-180.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <3eaa652b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 26 Apr 2003 12:53:31 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-180.mweb.co.za Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.linkpendium.com!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!news.compaq.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-180.mweb.co.za Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5121 "Judy Rigby" wrote in message news:rgntlEAG7Eq+Ew2U@rigbys.demon.co.uk... > (Incidentally, I have always had difficulty with the concept of "my > truth", which allows for someone else's "my truth" to be completely at > odds. I can cope with "my experience shows this", but I really like the > definition of "Truth" as something which isn't quite so subject to the > vagaries of individual existence.) I agree with your comment and concerns. I think the way it has developed is as a euphemism to "this is your viewpoint." This was then turned into "your truth" because your viewpoint is truly how you see the world and "your truth" sound a bit more grand. The sad fact about it is that most of our so-called truths are really just lies and calling them truth puts a veneer of acceptability on them. I notice that you use "truth" in two cases but "Truth" in another and Truth is of course NOT subject to our individual idiosyncracies. > >In the olden days there used to be Low Mass and High Mass. (still?) > >The High Mass had all the incense, > >choir, grandiosity, etc. and some folks said they would never go to Low > >Mass. > > Oh yes. So far as I know, both are still going strong in certain > quarters. The basic difference is that a High Mass is celebrated by a > priest along with a deacon, subdeacon & various acolytes. It's sung > (traditionally in Latin), whereas in a Low Mass the liturgy is spoken, > and the celebrant is alone with one server. It tends to be shorter too > because there's no sermon. > > > >How would a mystic react to the two? I think that one of the Catholic Church's biggest mistakes was to give in to the notion that people who go to mass should or must be able to understand what the priest says, sings or recites. My reasons for this is that a person should not go to church to understand the priest but to understand himself. The abandonning of rituals which cannot be intellectually understood is a great disservice. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3eaa1867.2134219@news.earthlink.net> References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> <3EA9D665.1C5D767C@shaw.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 20 Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 05:22:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.247.162.150 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1051334561 165.247.162.150 (Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:22:41 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:22:41 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5132 On Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:45:15 GMT, Rich wrote: >Still raining here. And here as well.... > And I feel I am at the point where I need to just do >more Reiki. >I mean 'hands on'. Some of the books say that the more Reiki you do, the >stronger the energy gets. >Hmm. Do you suppose that's the Truth? :) Or is the "Truth" that the more Reiki you do, the stronger your *awareness* of the "energy" gets, while the "energy" itself remains the same as it ever was? Or...? Love and Light, Garry ###### Message-ID: <3EAA32FC.AC53DEB9@ch.inter.net> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 09:19:24 +0200 From: Theo Reply-To: no-spam-byjoke@ch.inter.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> <3EA9D665.1C5D767C@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.36.225 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.36.225 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1051341555 62.202.36.225 (26 Apr 2003 09:19:15 +0200) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 125 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news2.ip-plus.net,newsfeed2-zh.ip-plus.net!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5124 Hi Rich Hi Judy Rich wrote: > Judy Rigby wrote: > > > I hold a belief in absolute "Truth". With a capital "T". As being that > > which "is", beyond question. It's the "Truth" relating to the big > > questions ... existence of God/dess, the meaning of life, those sort of > > things. What do you mean by "Truth" ? truth does not exist there are many * truths* according your angle of perception the Whole contains a Truth pertinent to all cases like the Ocean (The Whole) that has all sorts of waters ( Thruths)deriving from it in different ways and returning to it in different ways but the basic Truth of the Whole in this case is H2O God (s) (desses) and all sorts of beliefs are derivations reservoirs of this unique Truth labels that we stick on the containers like Perrier on the bottle containing H2O from Perrier spring but it is still H2O with something" Different " that distinguishes it from others ( in this case bubbles) the whole conception of truth applied to daili actions of living is like a Pyramid the cusp is the truth changes while descending toward the base , so basic truth at the base of the noth side is derived from teh top and is truth is meaningless for the south side truth aaslo derived from the top but took another orientation does it make a little sense ? > -SNIP_ > I believe in healthy skepticism. Skeptics can change. (Cynics don't.) > Not sure where I belong when I revert to sarcasm! Cynics are people that dare saying aloud what others think in silence ( someone said :-) sarcasm can be a disguised cynism Skeptics are people that dout what they think Cynics are basically sure they are right in their thinking and often are also Skeptik wearing a mask of self assurance as protection > > We can all hold differing beliefs, which would be accurately > > described as "my belief" relating to those questions, but whether any or > > all of our beliefs actually correspond to "Truth" is pretty difficult to > > know. > nobody come back until today ( from death as all Masters passed out) to clam the Truth of tehir beliefs we are fighting each others *on Guess* that we hold the truth (mainly in Religious topic) > > If you took a blank slate and deliberately designed your life, would > your 'Truth' fit? > Mostly we have some 'truths' and we try to design our life around them > and our enlightment is not one and a definiive te one.. enligtments are as sparkles that leads our ways on paths that are our owns .. these paths leads us to our personal realizations and each of us is alone on "his " path .. so following a master's discipline is intersting to get a structure but is not adapted to the learner's need as it was the Master's path and the solutions he found for his own problems .. and if the disciple follow litterally the Master's path will be just a carbon copy (a bad one ) of his master but will not find his own true/ truth realization I mean could you follow strictly Usui's life and actings you will never be like Him as you are already basically and mentally different at the origine as 2 trees coming from the same seedlings can become each following its own way two wonderful trees if one will be *grown* to become like the otehr will * just look like " but will never be the same nor express its own unicity > > life is totally suppressed. > I am trying to design Reiki into my life and not the other way around. > Is that what > everyone is doing and I haven't gotten it yet? You have not :-)LOL! ( IMHO) I see things this way : why don't you instead let your life grow as she feels like but just by using Reiki's fertile soil,and water and light and wind,and rein and fertilizer? you cannot be *good* by will ,unless you have become good inside , live in good think in good breath in good and so on ,in first .. this is a part of the 21 st days of Cleanse "Healing" but 21 days is just teh starting point > Which is where I have difficulty when people describe what I would > > see as a "belief" as a "truth". Now I think on it, this is probably just > > a parallel with the confusion we see engendered by using the same word > > "Reiki" for both "energy" and "method(s)" ... Reiki is the sea the rest are Bottles filled with derived from it ans with a label name stuck on each bottle is an own universe of similarity with its own qualities as well but in the range of the derived bottles you can find salted sweet and poisonous ones > ... oh, what a relief ! It's stopped raining ..... ;) I love rain > Still raining here. And I feel I am at the point where I need to just do > more Reiki. > I mean 'hands on'. Some of the books say that the more Reiki you do, the > stronger the energy gets. > Hmm. Do you suppose that's the Truth? :) one of 'em probably but no scientific evidence.. Walk under the Rain and think each drop is ar Reiky drop .. and relax and get permeated of the athmosphere of the smells of the sensations on your skin in your ears in your eyes and in your spine .. BTW doing Qi Gong when strong stormy weather is adviced not to be performed ( same with yoga) maybe is the same with reiki any feed back about friends? Namaste Theo > How can You put trust in me if I do not trust in Me? Theo http://www.byjoke.com/ ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <3EAAACE2.9E1B5FBA@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> <3EA9D665.1C5D767C@shaw.ca> <3eaa1867.2134219@news.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 29 Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 16:00:24 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news1.calgary.shaw.ca 1051372824 24.71.223.147 (Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:00:24 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:00:24 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news1.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5181 I think I pissed off the Rain God and that's the truth! It is now blizzarding! This time of year the snow gets very wet and heavy and breaks tree limbs. Beautiful, though. (The snow, not the broken trees.) 'Awareness". Or....? Sometimes the awareness comes as 'sharing the experience' with the client, no? I was 'treating' a lady for back pain a while back. My 'awareness' was that there was not a lot of 'energy' happening. She later shared that she felt a coldness go through her 3rd chakra region when I Reiki-ed the area. Some personal stuff got stirred up also and she continued sessions with a Master. I think her feedback was more 'valuable' for me than anything I might have 'felt' myself. Sleigh bells ringing!! Rich Nadie Niemand wrote: > Or is the "Truth" that the more Reiki you do, the stronger your > *awareness* of the "energy" gets, while the "energy" itself remains > the same as it ever was? Or...? > > Love and Light, > > Garry ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:47:32 -0700 Lines: 23 Message-ID: <3EAAC634.52FC9443@nidlink.com> References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> <3EA9D665.1C5D767C@shaw.ca> <3eaa1867.2134219@news.earthlink.net> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: sandpoint-149.imbris.com (216.18.141.149) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1051379294 8745672 216.18.141.149 (16 [130985]) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!sandpoint-149.imbris.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5094 Nadie Niemand wrote: > > On Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:45:15 GMT, Rich wrote: > > >Still raining here. > > And here as well.... > > > And I feel I am at the point where I need to just do > >more Reiki. > >I mean 'hands on'. Some of the books say that the more Reiki you do, the > >stronger the energy gets. > >Hmm. Do you suppose that's the Truth? :) > > Or is the "Truth" that the more Reiki you do, the stronger your > *awareness* of the "energy" gets, while the "energy" itself remains > the same as it ever was? Or...? I think that's what it is for me. The more energy work I do, reiki, tai chi or other, the more I'm aware of what energy `feels'. Sometimes it becomes more of a sensing of it than a physical feel. namaste, sue ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 00:36:01 +0100 Lines: 63 Message-ID: References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3eaa652b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1051400132 21403 194.222.30.223 (26 Apr 2003 23:35:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 23:35:32 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!feed.news.schlund.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy.rigby Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5186 pr writes > >I agree with your comment and concerns. I think the way it >has developed is as a euphemism to "this is your viewpoint." >This was then turned into "your truth" because your viewpoint >is truly how you see the world and "your truth" sound a bit >more grand. The sad fact about it is that most of our so-called >truths are really just lies and calling them truth puts a veneer >of acceptability on them. I notice that you use "truth" >in two cases but "Truth" in another and Truth is of course >NOT subject to our individual idiosyncracies. The "truth" / "Truth" distinction is precisely the point I wished to make. It actually doesn't matter one jot to me whether or not anyone else shares this particular view of things, so I wouldn't debate it, simply it happens to work for me just for now ... > >I think that one of the Catholic Church's biggest mistakes >was to give in to the notion that people who go to mass should >or must be able to understand what the priest says, sings or >recites. I think the Catholic Church made some right stonkers before Vatican II ... ... sorry, I've just diverted myself. Went to look something up in on the Catholic Encyclopedia (essential reading before bedtime) & I see they host an ad for a *DATING AGENCY* for Catholic singles. Called, of all things "Ave Maria Singles". Oh dear. What *are* things coming to, were I only Catholic & single ... but I digress ... ... I like to hear a sung mass, in whatever language. These days the Catholic Church seems very short of decent choral voices. (I speak from experience as a Church of England chorister until the unfortunate & bloody incident after which I & the Church parted company. I was however, educated in a Catholic convent (I came out winning, more or less.). Chamundi, bless him, once opined to me that you can always tell a convent girl because she's the sort who goes on newsgroups and talks about sex. I have NO idea what he's talking about.) >My reasons for this is that a person should not go to >church to understand the priest but to understand >himself. I think God usually comes into it somewhere along the line as well. >The abandonning of rituals which cannot >be intellectually understood is a great disservice. Do you think the symbolic aspect of the mass is generally understood intellectually ? (Thinking of such things as candles - used at all masses - direction of the altar, significance of incense ...) -- Judy http://members.lycos.co.uk/bluelotusrising/index.html http://www.rigbys.demon.co.uk ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3eaa652b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 07:51:11 +0200 Lines: 51 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-189.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <3eabc76f.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 27 Apr 2003 14:05:03 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-189.mweb.co.za Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!triton.net!smallfeed.triton.net!nntp1.hal-pc.org!204.94.211.44.MISMATCH!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-189.mweb.co.za Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5233 "Judy Rigby" wrote in message news:Ale306Ahfxq+Ewic@rigbys.demon.co.uk... > ... I like to hear a sung mass, in whatever language. These days the > Catholic Church seems very short of decent choral voices. (I speak from > experience as a Church of England chorister until the unfortunate & > bloody incident after which I & the Church parted company. I was > however, educated in a Catholic convent (I came out winning, more or > less.). Chamundi, bless him, once opined to me that you can always tell > a convent girl because she's the sort who goes on newsgroups and talks > about sex. I have NO idea what he's talking about.) He means that they are the ones who just throw in the word sex when there was no mention of that before . > >My reasons for this is that a person should not go to > >church to understand the priest but to understand > >himself. > > I think God usually comes into it somewhere along the line as well. I don't now about that. I think that if I really understand myself then I will understand Him too. > >The abandonning of rituals which cannot > >be intellectually understood is a great disservice. > > Do you think the symbolic aspect of the mass is generally understood > intellectually ? (Thinking of such things as candles - used at all > masses - direction of the altar, significance of incense ...) No, of course not. That is why it then called an "empty ritual". My parapgraph above is also worded badly. I did not want to imply that there are rituals that can be understood intellectually, on the contrary, the purpose of rituals is to switch our intellect off. When the ritual is "empty" then it is I who has not brought anything into it. There is no use blaming anybody else for having a meaningless ritual when the meaning needs to put there by myself. I find it sad that the Church, and not only the Catholic one, repeatedly fail to bring such a distinction across. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### Message-ID: <3EAB8409.4765A6C2@ch.inter.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 09:17:30 +0200 From: Theo Reply-To: no-spam-byjoke@ch.inter.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> <3EA9D665.1C5D767C@shaw.ca> <3EAA32FC.AC53DEB9@ch.inter.net> <3EAAF08B.123C1620@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.41.23 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.41.23 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1051427834 213.3.41.23 (27 Apr 2003 09:17:14 +0200) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 119 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news2.ip-plus.net,newsfeed2-zh.ip-plus.net!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5196 HI Rich Rich wrote: >Such a broad topic! I have a belief/opinion that what we call "Truth" -snip- > Now we are talking'TRUTHS' that > mean something! "Reiki doesn't work for me because"......is a very > powerful 'truth' that > has a tighter grip on us than does our description of our God. True > > Makes sense on an intellectual level, Theo. What makes a bigger > difference > on the way I live is what grabs at my 'heart and soul' and not what > makes sense. > Tomorrow I'll have forgotten what 'made sense' today. this is what I mean by the "enlightment of the situation * but I do not think that tomorrow you'll be as the day before ..the *instant enlightment* made some change (very little noticeable maybe )into you and you will not the be the same it chnaged your paths of thinking maybe add some more connections to your neurones > > Jeepers, I think that was my mother-in-law!! Kidding, okay? Don't > have a MIL. no all gone.. the only one I have at hand is my wife that is becoming a copy of her mother watch the MIL before marrying their daughters .. it is my advice to all young lads > Where the heck is Joel Canuck when we need him? Must have a heck of a > garden growing > out there in British Columbia! do not know him > Almost every major culture on the planet has a variation of "do unto > others, etc." > and look at the planet! So much for Truths! you mean commandments? if so , yes stealing murdering and few othehrs are human constants that are banned from all societies It was a story ( there are many ) about Indians Gods once a masted asked to teh learner how many Gods in teh Indian pantheon teh pupil promptly answered 3000 ( just a figure but teh story sa somethinsg as much) and teh amster said good answer but how mayn in reality ? the pupil said 1500.. Great said the master but yet again how many and the pupil again 500 and so on until at the endt the pupil said the right answer: 1 God .. there is1 truth like the trunk of a tree but the roots that feed it are so many and to each root corrspond a branch from the trunk so the tree is the same but the developments of what lies underneath makes a differnet even similars branches This is my way I see thins a broa vision that is quite comfortable IMhO as gives me the opportunity to taylor it to many circumstances > How would we write our own version of: easily it is a question that I thought often about .. forst of all if I were back with what I actually know yes my life would be different, I would follow my intuitions, stay single ,a lot of sentimental adventures but no attachments plus many other things a totally selfish life of personal freedom to develope my own intersts private and work and eventually to share sparingly with others but without no real solid links .. a life I guess as Steve is leading ( I mean his freedom his jobs his intersts his reiki his pictures his friends ,his garden , just what I see on thesurface ) If I were back as I was ,with no experience .. well I probably would live a similar life to the one I lived .. it is not that bad but I did not a lot of things I wished to do .. but I have done others apparently less intersting .. but will never know which would have been the best choice.. > > I'll just keep hanging around until I do get it! we all do more or less the same in fact we are waiting instead of acting and I knew that since I was 24 that ! but in few cases I acted A rich man that was $ succesful in life ( I know just this side of his life..) had engraved on his signet ring ( I did for him) *Who dare wins*.. when I dared I won, but often I waited ... > > Now you've done it! All this talk of water and bottles....I gotta go > take a pee! > And then have a beer! drink tea :-) and eat tomatoes seeds included excellent for prostat and pee reasonable retention > > And then take a....... > > did not get the above one.. get what ??? I am not very much sporty unless indoor's ones ..but these games season is almost ove for me too :-) > > Peace if we cannot get anything better :-) why not Peace and light Theo > > Rich -- How can You put trust in me if I do not trust in Me? Theo http://www.byjoke.com/ ###### Message-ID: <3EAB853C.80F88429@ch.inter.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 09:22:36 +0200 From: Theo Reply-To: no-spam-byjoke@ch.inter.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EAAF08B.123C1620@shaw.ca> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B90935478DA8EA26AC7D511D" NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.41.23 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.41.23 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1051428140 213.3.41.23 (27 Apr 2003 09:22:20 +0200) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 65 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news2.ip-plus.net,newsfeed2-zh.ip-plus.net!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5199 --------------B90935478DA8EA26AC7D511D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI Stuart Stuart Vernon wrote: > (Rich) wrote: > > > How would we write our own version of: > > http://www.omidia.com/thought/p_nadine.html > > Ultimately, that is all that will matter. > > Nice ... reminds me of: > > http://www.plh-photos.com/purple.html How exciting LOL! These are ladies points of wiew what a lad would do if back in his 20 again ? Theo > > > Stuart -- How can You put trust in me if I do not trust in Me? Theo http://www.byjoke.com/ --------------B90935478DA8EA26AC7D511D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  
HI Stuart

Stuart Vernon wrote:

(Rich) wrote:

> How would we write our own version of:
> http://www.omidia.com/thought/p_nadine.html
> Ultimately, that is all that will matter.

Nice ... reminds me of:

http://www.plh-photos.com/purple.html

 How exciting LOL!
These are ladies  points of wiew  what a lad would do if  back  in his 20 again ?
 Theo
 

Stuart

--
How can You put trust in me if I do not trust in Me?
 Theo
http://www.byjoke.com/
  --------------B90935478DA8EA26AC7D511D-- ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 12:15 +0100 (BST) Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <3EAB8409.4765A6C2@ch.inter.net> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1051442156 9710688 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5256 The Rich and Theo double-act wrote: > > Where the heck is Joel Canuck when we need him? Must have > > a heck of a garden growing out there in British Columbia! > > do not know him You stick with us son, and we'll soon get you up to speed ... That's Joel (aka Montane) ... ;) Suart ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3eabc22f.3532210@news.earthlink.net> References: <3EAB8409.4765A6C2@ch.inter.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 12 Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 11:39:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.247.162.182 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1051443547 165.247.162.182 (Sun, 27 Apr 2003 04:39:07 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 04:39:07 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!small1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5245 On Sun, 27 Apr 2003 12:15 +0100 (BST), stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) wrote: >Suart You really have to start cutting back on the weekends, Stuart my dear boy. You know you've had too much when you can't even write your own name. ;-) Garry ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> <3EA9D665.1C5D767C@shaw.ca> <3EAA32FC.AC53DEB9@ch.inter.net> <3EAAF08B.123C1620@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 13:51:00 +0200 Lines: 59 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-189.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <3eabc775.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 27 Apr 2003 14:05:09 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-189.mweb.co.za Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-189.mweb.co.za Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5225 "Rich" wrote in message news:3EAAF08B.123C1620@shaw.ca... > > Hi Theo, > > What do you mean by "Truth" ? truth does not exist there are many * > truths* > > according your angle of perception the Whole contains a Truth pertinent to all > > cases > > Such a broad topic! I have a belief/opinion that what we call "Truth" > has less > of an impact on our lives than our 'daily truths'. We can have a great > discussion > on God, spirituality, meaning of life and pat ourselves on the back for > the great 'wisdom' or 'facility with words' we display. So what? Monday > morning > we have to go back to the job that 'gives me no chance for real > meaning', or > we sit across from that person who 'never listens', or we have to deal > with the gov't, > whose intention is to 'blow our hard earned money'. Now we are talking > 'TRUTHS' that > mean something! I disagree, as set out in a more detailed reply to Theo, you are talking OPINIONS and not truth, or even TRUTHS. To see that is a spiritual experience and so it would seem that you have plenty of opportunities in your life for that. What we desperately need is a "practical spirituality" that is able deal with the above situation(s) on the level of everyday life. Spirituality is seen as dealing with spirit. Observe some discussions on that topic and see how often the word "body" appears. I followed a thread about "Ego and Self", 30 posts, 'body" appear twice, on both occasions as an aside. Ego, self, Self, soul, and spirit are treated as if they had no vital connection to our body, our earthly existence. No wonder there is no practicality in what passes as spirituality. >"Reiki doesn't work for me because"......is a very > powerful 'truth' that > has a tighter grip on us than does our description of our God. Disagree again, it is a very powerful opinion that allows you to ignore the things that Reiki does for you. The question is where does it derive its power from? Since you are the creater and holder of it, it must be you, and you give it the power by holding on to it. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 12:53 +0100 (BST) Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <3eabc22f.3532210@news.earthlink.net> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1051444390 9777671 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5254 (Nadie Niemand) wrote: > >Suart > > You really have to start cutting back on the weekends, Stuart my dear > boy. You know you've had too much when you can't even write your own > name. ;-) It's not that ... my nails need cutting ... Howard Hughes ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> <3EA9D665.1C5D767C@shaw.ca> <3EAA32FC.AC53DEB9@ch.inter.net> Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 13:54:19 +0200 Lines: 89 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-189.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <3eabc779.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 27 Apr 2003 14:05:13 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-189.mweb.co.za Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-189.mweb.co.za Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5227 "Theo" wrote in message news:3EAA32FC.AC53DEB9@ch.inter.net... Hi theo, > > Judy Rigby wrote: > > > > > I hold a belief in absolute "Truth". With a capital "T". As being that > > > which "is", beyond question. It's the "Truth" relating to the big > > > questions ... existence of God/dess, the meaning of life, those sort of > > > things. > > What do you mean by "Truth" ? truth does not exist there are many * truths* > according your angle of perception the Whole contains a Truth pertinent to all > cases There are many (personal) truths, to stick to this term for the moment, but there is ONE TRUTH. The fact that most of us are not able to see it does not mean it is not there. What you call truth, is more often than not just an opinion. I happen to think that G.W. Bush is bully and overall a bad influence for the world. Is that a truth? No, it is just an opinion formed from what I see and processed against my personal background. Many people may be of a different opinion, they may see different things (e.g. news reports) and have obviously a different background. What is a truth? It is something you can definitely know. But ask yourself the question "How do I know this?" and if you look at it honestly for some time you will find only one answer "I don't know". You were told, you learned, you imitated, you absorbed, you got educated, you got trained, but you don't really know. With this, any idea that there is something like a personal truth evaporates into nothingness. You don't know. I don't know. We just have an endless stream of opinions. > like the Ocean (The Whole) that has all sorts of waters ( Thruths)deriving > from it in different ways and returning to it in different ways but the basic > Truth of the Whole in this case is H2O > God (s) (desses) and all sorts of beliefs are derivations reservoirs of > this unique Truth labels that we stick on the containers Because they are derivations only, and thus only parts of the whole, their usefulness is limited. Our biggest mistake is to believe that these derivations are the real thing, meaning that they are the same as the whole, which they can never be. > the whole conception of truth applied to daili actions of living is like a > Pyramid the cusp is the truth changes while descending toward the base , so > basic truth at the base of the noth side is derived from teh top and is > truth is meaningless for the south side truth aaslo derived from the top > but took another orientation > does it make a little sense ? Although it is a most popular opinion, not really, and I tell you why. I do not see why the word truth has to be used when we talk about views, viewpoints or positions, and even more so when we /know/ that we don't see the complete picture. The north side "truth" which is meaning less for the south side "truth" is actually only a working hypothesis for the north side. It is has nothing to do with truth. A hypothesis is a theory and no theory is the truth, much less the Truth. This talk of personal "truth" is also not very helpful. I may be inclined to change my opinion about something, but change "my truth" about it? NO WAYS! After all, how much of a truth can it be when it changes from day to day? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### Message-ID: <3EABC77F.57A1DABD@ch.inter.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:05:19 +0200 From: Theo Reply-To: no-spam-byjoke@ch.inter.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EAB8409.4765A6C2@ch.inter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.41.23 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.41.23 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1051445102 213.3.41.23 (27 Apr 2003 14:05:02 +0200) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 24 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5228 I c Theo Stuart Vernon wrote: > The Rich and Theo double-act wrote: > > > > Where the heck is Joel Canuck when we need him? Must have > > > a heck of a garden growing out there in British Columbia! > > > > do not know him > > You stick with us son, and we'll soon get you up to speed ... > > That's Joel (aka Montane) ... ;) > > Suart -- How can You put trust in me if I do not trust in Me? Theo http://www.byjoke.com/ ###### Message-ID: <3EABC990.4C06D95D@ch.inter.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:14:09 +0200 From: Theo Reply-To: no-spam-byjoke@ch.inter.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EAB8409.4765A6C2@ch.inter.net> <3eabc22f.3532210@news.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.41.23 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.41.23 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1051445631 213.3.41.23 (27 Apr 2003 14:13:51 +0200) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 28 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news2.ip-plus.net,newsfeed2-zh.ip-plus.net!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5208 Nadie Niemand wrote: > On Sun, 27 Apr 2003 12:15 +0100 (BST), stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) > wrote: > > >Suart > I think that he got so uppsset with my question at breakfast that almost cross drinked his coffe Poor Stuart! Theo > > You really have to start cutting back on the weekends, Stuart my dear > boy. You know you've had too much when you can't even write your own > name. ;-) > > Garry -- How can You put trust in me if I do not trust in Me? Theo http://www.byjoke.com/ ###### Message-ID: <3EABCDA3.4F6892BB@ch.inter.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:31:32 +0200 From: Theo Reply-To: no-spam-byjoke@ch.inter.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> <3EA9D665.1C5D767C@shaw.ca> <3EAA32FC.AC53DEB9@ch.inter.net> <3eabc779.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.41.23 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.41.23 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1051446675 213.3.41.23 (27 Apr 2003 14:31:15 +0200) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 99 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news2.ip-plus.net,newsfeed2-zh.ip-plus.net!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5223 HI pr wrote: > Hi theo, > > > There are many (personal) truths, to stick to this term for the > moment, but there is ONE TRUTH. The fact that most of us > are not able to see it does not mean it is not there. > What you call truth, is more often than not just an opinion. > I happen to think that G.W. Bush is bully and overall a bad > influence for the world. Is that a truth? No, it is just an > opinion formed from what I see and processed against my > personal background. Many people may be of a different > opinion, they may see different things (e.g. news reports) > and have obviously a different background. true his friends say he is good his ennemies a yam! but the truth is behind "how did he got on power" and when this question is answered we should go a step behind and ask why ? and than we go behind and so on until the top of pyramid .. and we will find that GWB and OBL comes from the same source but took different ways and we can ge backing and backing til the origine of the universe that created the situation with Bush and Bin Laden .. and there IS the truth the basic truth the root of all truths ! > What is a truth? It is something you can definitely know. > But ask yourself the question "How do I know this?" and > if you look at it honestly for some time you will find only > one answer "I don't know". You were told, you learned, > you imitated, you absorbed, you got educated, you > got trained, but you don't really know. With this, any > idea that there is something like a personal truth > evaporates into nothingness. > You don't know. I don't know. We just have an endless > stream of opinions. many things we know are grasped from the collective inconscious most are learned during our daily life > > like the Ocean (The Whole) that has all sorts of waters ( > Thruths)deriving > > from it in different ways and returning to it in different ways but the > basic > > Truth of the Whole in this case is H2O > > God (s) (desses) and all sorts of beliefs are derivations reservoirsof > > this unique Truth labels that we stick on the containers > > Because they are derivations only, and thus only parts of > the whole, their usefulness is limited. Our biggest mistake > is to believe that these derivations are the real thing, meaning > that they are the same as the whole, which they can never be. > Exactly ! > _snip_ > > Although it is a most popular opinion, not really, and I tell > you why. > I do not see why the word truth has to be used when we talk > about views, viewpoints or positions, and even more so when > we /know/ that we don't see the complete picture. The north > side "truth" which is meaning less for the south side "truth" > is actually only a working hypothesis for the north side. It is > has nothing to do with truth. A hypothesis is a theory and > no theory is the truth, much less the Truth. > This talk of personal "truth" is also not very helpful. I may > be inclined to change my opinion about something, but > change "my truth" about it? NO WAYS! After all, how > much of a truth can it be when it changes from day to day? this is why I think that it is a *relative truth* a stone in the pyramid but not the pyramid ; but it helps to make the pyramid ,even if it is not really The pyramid but it is anyway an integrating part of the pyramid out of the Pyramid is a calcar stone made of millions of fossilized shells each of it had its own life and a common destiny i.e. the stone of the pyramid ! IT is amusing to have these discussions as the thought , the concepts, have to be sliced very thin a micron more changes the whole issue of thinking Namaste Theo > > > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" -- How can You put trust in me if I do not trust in Me? Theo http://www.byjoke.com/ ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <3EAC0C2E.6AE32E42@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> <3EA9D665.1C5D767C@shaw.ca> <3EAA32FC.AC53DEB9@ch.inter.net> <3eabc779.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 54 Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:59:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news2.calgary.shaw.ca 1051462759 24.71.223.147 (Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:59:19 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:59:19 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news2.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5276 pr wrote: > > There are many (personal) truths, to stick to this term for the > moment, but there is ONE TRUTH. The fact that most of us > are not able to see it does not mean it is not there. > What you call truth, is more often than not just an opinion. My opinion is that it depends on whether you are the 'player' or the 'observer'. When someone wastes his life because he 'is worthless', as the player he is operating out of his 'truth'. The observer says, "What an unfortunate opinion, he had." > What is a truth? It is something you can definitely know. Here is a bit of a brain-strain...... Q. When is a superstition not a superstition? A. When it's the truth. Comments, worthy philosophers! Then the next one...... Did they burn witches at Salem? > You don't know. I don't know. We just have an endless > stream of opinions. Yes, we do. And there is a whole part of philosophy that deals with the 'Survival of the Mind'. Too lengthy to get fully into and it is based on the premise (you will call it opinion) that the Mind/ego survives by implanting 'truths' out of which it then operates. What takes it beyond mere speculation is that the premise is 'field tested' all around the world, experientially, and the survival mechanism confirmed. Are there any "Yeah, buts"? Sure. There will always be. > I do not see why the word truth has to be used when we talk > about views, viewpoints or positions, and even more so when > we /know/ that we don't see the complete picture. Correct. When we KNOW they are opinions. You need to field-test. Do you see people operating out of opinions that they seem to think are truths? If you do, then the next question would have to be along the lines of "Do humans act rationally?" I think history has answered that one. Peace Rich ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> <3EA9D665.1C5D767C@shaw.ca> <3EAA32FC.AC53DEB9@ch.inter.net> <3eabc779.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EABCDA3.4F6892BB@ch.inter.net> Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:22:36 +0200 Lines: 200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-118.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <3eacb06b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 28 Apr 2003 06:39:07 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-118.mweb.co.za Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-118.mweb.co.za Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5291 "Theo" wrote in message news:3EABCDA3.4F6892BB@ch.inter.net... Hi Theo, > > There are many (personal) truths, to stick to this term for the > > moment, but there is ONE TRUTH. The fact that most of us > > are not able to see it does not mean it is not there. > > What you call truth, is more often than not just an opinion. > > I happen to think that G.W. Bush is bully and overall a bad > > influence for the world. Is that a truth? No, it is just an > > opinion formed from what I see and processed against my > > personal background. Many people may be of a different > > opinion, they may see different things (e.g. news reports) > > and have obviously a different background. > > true his friends say he is good his ennemies a yam! > but the truth is behind "how did he got on power" and when this question is > answered we should go a step behind and ask why ? and than we go behind > and so on until the top of pyramid .. I don't think we have to do that. Why? Zen Master Dogen said once "There is nothing that is hidden in this world." IOW, everything is there to see. But that is not interesting enough for us. We have to pretend that things are hidden at lower levels, and lower levels, then even further down, and so it goes on endlessly until we find the truth, which, within this thought system, is never. Which is of course exactly the reason why it is advanced. Some spiritual paths are developed along the same pattern, thus they become accessible to the elite and initated only, and they are kept in its thrall by a goal that like a mirage appear in front of them only to disappear when an approach is made. The simple fact is (for me), that a spiritual path must be accessible to anybody, the most unintelligent, stupid, weird person. As it must be to the most evil one, the rudest, the most arrogant, the most self-loathing human being. It must be available to anybody, without a single precondition. Tell me which fancy theory can fulfill this? We know this, that is why people flocked to a film like Forest Gump, an illustration of living a live of simplicity, but then we reurn to what we call the "real" world. > comes from the same source but took different ways and we can ge backing > and backing til the origine of the universe that created the situation with > Bush and Bin Laden .. and there IS the truth the basic truth the root of > all truths ! Sound very nice, but how do we get there? > > What is a truth? It is something you can definitely know. > > But ask yourself the question "How do I know this?" and > > if you look at it honestly for some time you will find only > > one answer "I don't know". You were told, you learned, > > you imitated, you absorbed, you got educated, you > > got trained, but you don't really know. With this, any > > idea that there is something like a personal truth > > evaporates into nothingness. > > You don't know. I don't know. We just have an endless > > stream of opinions. > > many things we know are grasped from the collective inconscious most are > learned during our daily life The thing we call knowledge is just agreement. We agree that something is such and such and call it a truth. What a joke! Where I live it can be very hot, up to 40 Celsius on exceptional days, 35Celsius faitly common. Everyone complains about it and how uncomfortable it is, except me because I have broken my agreement with the opinion that hot means uncomfortable. Nowadays I know that hot is hot, that whatever I feel, the perspiration, etc. is just the way a person feels when it is hot. the amazing thing is that all of a sudden it is actually not that hot anymore. As a guess I would say it make a 5 degree difference. Agreements, that is what we live by, not by knowing. Agreements, some we have made, some we have simply accepted, some which are made by other people for us without us even knowing. A few years back I started studying for a BA in Economics only to find that people who had masters and doctoral degrees in the subject did not have a clue. I decided to abandon my studies and not waste my time and effort on a subject that nobody seems to know anything about. Every day I hear an economist on the radio talking about the latest figures and he stays straight out "I haven't got a clue why the currency is down, and the share prices even, because looking at what goes on, the currency should be up, in which case stock prices should be down, especially as the NY stock exchange has fallen. God alone knows what's going on, it just does not make any sense to me." But people like him run the IMF, the World Bank and sit in every Reserve Bank. How is it possible that en economic theory which cannot even explain things with hindsight can carry on as a vehicle for economic guidance? Agreement! Agreement amongst the powerful that this is the tool to use in preference to anything else. > > Although it is a most popular opinion, not really, and I tell > > you why. > > I do not see why the word truth has to be used when we talk > > about views, viewpoints or positions, and even more so when > > we /know/ that we don't see the complete picture. The north > > side "truth" which is meaning less for the south side "truth" > > is actually only a working hypothesis for the north side. It is > > has nothing to do with truth. A hypothesis is a theory and > > no theory is the truth, much less the Truth. > > This talk of personal "truth" is also not very helpful. I may > > be inclined to change my opinion about something, but > > change "my truth" about it? NO WAYS! After all, how > > much of a truth can it be when it changes from day to day? > > this is why I think that it is a *relative truth* a stone in the pyramid but > not the pyramid ; > but it helps to make the pyramid ,even if it is not really The pyramid but it > is anyway an integrating part of the pyramid out of the Pyramid is a calcar > stone made of millions of fossilized shells each of it had its own life and > a common destiny i.e. the stone of the pyramid ! The problem I have with your analogy is that it works on the principle referred to by the subject line. More - bigger - better. More and bigger implies increased complexity, and with this it disappears from the grasp of more and more people. True knowledge is not subject to the process of accumulation but rather subtraction. Lao-Tsu, the author of the Tao-Te-Ching knew that. That is why he left his position as national head librarian (I think, would need to check) and dropped out of his society to live amongst the barbarians. It was something unheard of in his time, and he is an important figure with significant influence in the world /just because/ he is a nobody. His genius was to disappear from view and leave us with one of the great pieces of literature. He wrote, "Gain is Loss, and Loss is Gain". Jesus talks of not amassing treasures here on earth, and this includes wordly knowledge. How many other masters talk about letting go of things, including your mind? Take meditation, do we do it to gain control over something, or do we do it to let go of some stuff? Will the earth be a better place if only we would do more of what we are doing now? What is the aim of the green movement other than to let the earth return to its natural state by stopping our continual interference. Let's look at Reiki. Would anything you read, hear or learn at a workshop improve your Reiki? I don't think so, in fact anything you learn and apply intellectually only is more likely to interfere. "The perfect way knows no difficulties Except that it refuses all preference." The stone is a much the Truth as the pyramid. So is a speck of dust. The pyramid does not contain more truth because it is bigger. "Do not try to find the truth, Merely cease to cherish opinions. Tarry not in dualism." Look at the stone, the pyramid and just see what they are. "Everything is void, lucid, and self-illuminating, There is no strain, no effort, no wastage of energy. To this region thought never attains." The stone has everything that the pyramid has. Even nothing (space, emptyness) has everything that the stone or the pyramid has. "It matters not how things are conditioned, Whether by "being" or by "not being". That which is is the same as that which is not. That which is not is the same as that which is. If only this is realized You need not worry about not being perfect!" Quotations from: "Inscribed on the Believing Mind" as rendered in "The Supreme Doctrine" by Hubert Benoit -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> <3EA9D665.1C5D767C@shaw.ca> <3EAA32FC.AC53DEB9@ch.inter.net> <3eabc779.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EAC0C2E.6AE32E42@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:51:06 +0200 Lines: 55 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-173.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <3eaf4bed.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 30 Apr 2003 06:07:09 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-173.mweb.co.za Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-173.mweb.co.za Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5362 "Rich" wrote in message news:3EAC0C2E.6AE32E42@shaw.ca... > > > pr wrote: > > > > There are many (personal) truths, to stick to this term for the > > moment, but there is ONE TRUTH. The fact that most of us > > are not able to see it does not mean it is not there. > > What you call truth, is more often than not just an opinion. > > My opinion is that it depends on whether you are the 'player' or the > 'observer'. > When someone wastes his life because he 'is worthless', as the player he > is operating out > of his 'truth'. The observer says, "What an unfortunate opinion, he > had." You refer to playing and (below) to field-testing in order to find out what is 'truth', speculation or opinion. Much of the playing is culturally dependent. Things which are field tested in Europe like having a drink or eating pork would just not fly in Saudi Arabia. IOW, even if something is field tested and shown to work, it is still conditional on many factors. How much truth can be found in something like that. I think that to use "truth" gives the belief or action an importance which it does not deserve, thus reinforcing the problem this so-called "truth" already creates. > > I do not see why the word truth has to be used when we talk > > about views, viewpoints or positions, and even more so when > > we /know/ that we don't see the complete picture. > > Correct. When we KNOW they are opinions. You need to field-test. > Do you see people operating out of opinions that they seem to > think are truths? If you do, then the next question would have to > be along the lines of "Do humans act rationally?" I think history > has answered that one. They don't. One more point to not use "truth" for the things we think. The greatest determining factors are not what we are aware of, but what we are unaware of, and that is not subject to our normal rationality. So what is unreal (does not really determine our life) is called the "truth" and what is real is labelled irrational. Is that rational? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: montanevine@netidea.com (montane) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:33:11 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 12 Message-ID: <3eafd019.27904424@news.netidea.com> References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3eaa652b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-903.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5363 On Sun, 27 Apr 2003 00:36:01 +0100, Judy Rigby wrote: > >I think the Catholic Church made some right stonkers before Vatican II > "Stonkers"? Please translate for those of us on the other side of the pond (and across several mountain ranges to boot). Blessings, montane ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:33:36 +0100 Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3eaa652b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3eafd019.27904424@news.netidea.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1051713450 18175 194.222.30.223 (30 Apr 2003 14:37:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:37:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!luth.se!skynet.be!skynet.be!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy.rigby Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5367 In article <3eafd019.27904424@news.netidea.com>, montane writes > >> >>I think the Catholic Church made some right stonkers before Vatican II >> >"Stonkers"? Please translate for those of us on the other side of the pond >(and across several mountain ranges to boot). In this usage ... "big mistake". -- Judy http://members.lycos.co.uk/bluelotusrising/index.html http://www.rigbys.demon.co.uk ###### Message-ID: <3EAFE07C.8E42CC9@bluewin.ch> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:41:00 +0200 From: Theo Reply-To: no_spam_byjoke@bluewin.ch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3eaa652b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3eafd019.27904424@news.netidea.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.102.136 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.102.136 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1051713286 213.3.102.136 (30 Apr 2003 16:34:46 +0200) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 19 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news2.ip-plus.net,newsfeed2-zh.ip-plus.net!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5358 yes my transletr plonked and gace plenty of explantions in arabic russian and otehsr that I copudl not read either :! Theo montane wrote: > On Sun, 27 Apr 2003 00:36:01 +0100, Judy Rigby > wrote: > > > > >I think the Catholic Church made some right stonkers before Vatican II > > > "Stonkers"? Please translate for those of us on the other side of the pond > (and across several mountain ranges to boot). > > Blessings, > > montane ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <3EAFE287.F9F2B4C5@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> <3EA9D665.1C5D767C@shaw.ca> <3EAA32FC.AC53DEB9@ch.inter.net> <3eabc779.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EAC0C2E.6AE32E42@shaw.ca> <3eaf4bed.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 114 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:50:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news3.calgary.shaw.ca 1051714247 24.71.223.147 (Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:50:47 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:50:47 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news3.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5369 pr wrote: > > "Rich" wrote in message news:3EAC0C2E.6AE32E42@shaw.ca... > > > You refer to playing and (below) to field-testing in order to > find out what is 'truth', speculation or opinion. Actually I do not. I refer to 'playing' as the real living of our lives, and 'using' the truths we have created for ourselves to steer by, taking into account that culture has influences. Finding out stuff is also part of it and I say we immediately add our discoveries to our truths. We MUST. That is how the Mind works. It requires certainty and will make it up if it needs to. And things look differently, depending on whether we are talking about our life, or actually in the dog-shit reality of living it. We know as a truth that although everything is our own creation, if we walk out in front of a bus, there are consequences. > Much of the playing is culturally dependent. Things which > are field tested in Europe like having a drink or eating pork > would just not fly in Saudi Arabia. Field testing. Hmm. Maybe we are having a semantics issue here. Well, actually we are since we could say everything is semantics! Drinking or eating pork are things that could be looked at from the cultural perspective and included in a conversation called, "Humans allow a higher governing authority to make individual life choices for them." A field test would check the accuracy of that statement. Might be interesting and not life altering. However, the kind of field test I am referring to is the one called "My Life". Try as you may to have it be another way, through logic, etc. there are things in my life (and everyone's) that are considered 'truths' and I/we live or die as a result of them. Would our perspectives on the concept 'truth' alter if instead, I assert that "humans operate out of 'what's so' for them?" > IOW, even if something is field tested and shown to work, > it is still conditional on many factors. How much truth can > be found in something like that. An example of one of these truths that has been field tested around the world is this one. "Children love their parents absolutely." Now you could say, "No one has asked ALL the children if this is true for them. How about the abuse, the cruelty, etc.?" Yet, even under those circumstances, researchers including psychologists, philosophers, anthropologists, historians, clerics, etc. have determined the fundamental 'truth/opinion/belief' that this absolute love is 'what's so'. The problem, these researchers say, is really that most children don't have a way to pass that information on to their parents. It gets all mashed up in peer pressure, adult domination, family conflicts, etc. If parents actually got that this love 'is what's so' how would that alter our relationships with our children? > I think that to use "truth" gives the belief or action an > importance which it does not deserve, thus reinforcing > the problem this so-called "truth" already creates. You know, sometimes I am a big jerk and actually love being one! The problem for others comes in their moralizing or assessing about that.... and I cannot resist taking your statement above and including it in the list of 'truths' by which we humans live. Yes, we do give stuff importance, and that's just what's so! Is it right, wrong, good, bad, etc. to do so? That's not the issue. >"Do humans act rationally?" I think history > > has answered that one. > > They don't. One more point to not use "truth" for the things > we think. The greatest determining factors are not what we > are aware of, but what we are unaware of, and that is not > subject to our normal rationality. Exactly! And I say it a bit differently, just to drive the point home for me. What has the greatest impact on our lives is not 'what we don't know, but what we don't know that we don't know.' How the heck do we access that? It'll take a rainy Sunday afternoon to wrap our heads around that one! (It hurts already!) So what is unreal (does not > really determine our life) is called the "truth" and what is real > is labelled irrational. Is that rational? I am assuming that we need to continue this discussion until we end up at 'emptiness'? Well, that's okay except I need to play my piano! Meanwhile, knowing that we are rational/irrational how do we make a difference on the planet and with each other? A wise person on AHR suggested we look more to (paraphrasing) how we 'experience' life. Lots of problems trying to 'explain' life! Peace Rich P.S. Today this Taurus celebrates his birthday so thank you all for allowing me into your lives! Reiki on the way for all Taureans! ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3EA37F1B.AB88B55A@shaw.ca> <3ea42c7a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA43C0E.D76C0815@ch.inter.net> <3ea7614a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EA7F9ED.591AE36D@shaw.ca> <6E$psCAkrAq+Ew2v@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <3EA84171.DA7F963C@shaw.ca> <3EA9540F.1A5D0B1B@shaw.ca> <3EA9D665.1C5D767C@shaw.ca> <3EAA32FC.AC53DEB9@ch.inter.net> <3eabc779.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EAC0C2E.6AE32E42@shaw.ca> <3eaf4bed.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3EAFE287.F9F2B4C5@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: More - Bigger - Better [Re: Reiki History 'Timeline'] Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 00:11:31 +0200 Lines: 18 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-3.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <3eb053e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 1 May 2003 00:53:20 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-3.mweb.co.za Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-3.mweb.co.za Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:5424 "Rich" wrote in message news:3EAFE287.F9F2B4C5@shaw.ca... > "humans operate out of 'what's so' for them?" > What has the greatest impact on our > lives is not 'what we don't know, but what we don't know that we don't > know.' EST? The Forum? iam? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs"