From: Chacal Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 20:42:44 +0000 Organization: changelater Lines: 35 Sender: Ted Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.137.21.35 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 1042404148 29756 62.137.21.35 (12 Jan 2003 20:42:28 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Jan 2003 20:42:28 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!charted.freeserve.co.uk!ted Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2447 Hi, I thought I'd come out of lurking mode to ask a question that is bothering me. Is it possible to loose your Reiki? I was attuned to Reiki level 2 about three years ago. Though I hardly have the time to practice on others, I reiki myself almost daily. I sit in front of the TV and give myself reiki for the entire length of a film, sometimes longer. In spite of this my health hasn't been all that great lately. I've had shingles twice since November. I am better now after a course of tablets and just time. Reiki didn't seem to do all that much for me or speed it up. Recently I've had an allergic reaction that left one of my eyes swollen, red and streaming. Still Reiki didn't help. I am better now thanks to the antibiotic drops that the doctor prescribed. I am also having a very bad cold since the beginning of the year. My throat is swollen and it's painful to swallow, my ears are blocked and can't hear all that well at times, according to the doctor they are a bit infected. Still, no amount of Reiki seems to make any difference, and since the doctor didn't give me anything for this I have to put up with it until it goes. Reiki doesn't seem to help, even though last night I spent the entire evening reiking myself. I don't get it. Either my Reiki "touch" has gone, or perhaps Reiki doesn't work all that well after all.. I think in moments of crisis you have to go back to conventional medicine, or perhaps to other forms of therapy. When I lie in bed at night I often get attacks of coughing, with the risk of waking up my partner and the whole house! So it's not reiki that helps me at those times, but Acupressure. I lie in bed pressing the acupressure points for coughs and it goes away. I think reiki enhances your life when you are well, but if you are sick you have to look for help elsewhere.. It's at moments like this that I feel like a dissatisfied customer. All that money spent doing my reiki attunements.. I want my money back!! Chacal ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 66 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:22:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.247.133.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1042406541 165.247.133.214 (Sun, 12 Jan 2003 13:22:21 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 13:22:21 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!news-xfer.cox.net!cox.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2400 Chacal, good to hear from you! OK, so how do you know the Reiki didn't help? Maybe without it you would have turned belly up and died from your common cold. ;-) Seriously, maybe something else needed healing more seriously than the things that *you* thought needed healing. Perhaps even your understanding about Reiki is what needs healing, and this is being brought up now so that you can dig into it. As for your statement that medical help is necessary in a moment of crisis--damn straight it is! Reiki isn't a magic wand, any more than any other modality. How many times have you been told that when we give Reiki, we are not supposed to be attached to outcomes? And what is the reason for us being told that? Just something to think about. That said, has there ever been a time for you when Reiki was noticably helpful? Are we throwing those times out with the bathwater? BTW, no, you haven't "lost" your Reiki. It's there forever, or for as long as you live, whichever warranty runs out first. Hope this has been helpful! Love and Light, Garry On Sun, 12 Jan 2003 20:42:44 +0000, Chacal wrote: >Hi, I thought I'd come out of lurking mode to ask a question that is >bothering me. Is it possible to loose your Reiki? >I was attuned to Reiki level 2 about three years ago. Though I hardly >have the time to practice on others, I reiki myself almost daily. I sit >in front of the TV and give myself reiki for the entire length of a >film, sometimes longer. In spite of this my health hasn't been all that >great lately. I've had shingles twice since November. I am better now >after a course of tablets and just time. Reiki didn't seem to do all >that much for me or speed it up. Recently I've had an allergic reaction >that left one of my eyes swollen, red and streaming. Still Reiki didn't >help. I am better now thanks to the antibiotic drops that the doctor >prescribed. I am also having a very bad cold since the beginning of the >year. My throat is swollen and it's painful to swallow, my ears are >blocked and can't hear all that well at times, according to the doctor >they are a bit infected. Still, no amount of Reiki seems to make any >difference, and since the doctor didn't give me anything for this I have >to put up with it until it goes. Reiki doesn't seem to help, even though >last night I spent the entire evening reiking myself. >I don't get it. Either my Reiki "touch" has gone, or perhaps Reiki >doesn't work all that well after all.. >I think in moments of crisis you have to go back to conventional >medicine, or perhaps to other forms of therapy. When I lie in bed at >night I often get attacks of coughing, with the risk of waking up my >partner and the whole house! So it's not reiki that helps me at those >times, but Acupressure. I lie in bed pressing the acupressure points for >coughs and it goes away. >I think reiki enhances your life when you are well, but if you are sick >you have to look for help elsewhere.. >It's at moments like this that I feel like a dissatisfied customer. All >that money spent doing my reiki attunements.. I want my money back!! > >Chacal > > > ###### From: "Soul Purpose" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 8 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 07:42:51 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.40.197.117 X-Trace: newsfeeds.bigpond.com 1042407569 203.40.197.117 (Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:39:29 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:39:29 EST Organization: Telstra BigPond Internet Services (http://www.bigpond.com) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!intgwlon.nntp.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!newsfeeds.bigpond.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2435 Hi Chacal, Just a thought, it might be worth asking for Reiki from here (AHR). You never know, maybe a whole lot of Reiki from all over the world might help! Love and Light, Danni ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:56 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1042408623 19875170 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!uni-erlangen.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2444 Hey Chacal (ex-Lurker) ... My RM used to say that if you're ill, take a pill ... There's nothing wrong with conventional medicine and hopefully no-one thinks that alternative / complementary medicine is any kind of substitute ... My thoughts are that if you're dealing with the base physical, use the physical ... Stuart ###### From: xwoodvine@netidea.com (Joel) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 02:32:28 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 69 Message-ID: <3e221fb1.104577804@news.netidea.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-120.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cyclone.bc.net!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newshub.northeast.verio.net!verio!newspeer.monmouth.com!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2393 On Sun, 12 Jan 2003 20:42:44 +0000, Chacal wrote: >Reiki doesn't seem to help, even though >last night I spent the entire evening reiking myself. >I don't get it. Either my Reiki "touch" has gone, or perhaps Reiki >doesn't work all that well after all. Hi, Chacal. This relates to some very big questions about Reiki. And yours is not the first post to open these questions up. I think we have all been learning about the patterns by which Reiki works. Yet it seems that either a lot is not known, with any "firm grasp," or that people have only been willing to speak of these things to a *certain* extent -- everyone, understandably, wants to remain positive. >I think in moments of crisis you have to go back to conventional >medicine, or perhaps to other forms of therapy. When I lie in bed at >night I often get attacks of coughing, with the risk of waking up my >partner and the whole house! So it's not reiki that helps me at those >times, but Acupressure. I lie in bed pressing the acupressure points for >coughs and it goes away. >I think reiki enhances your life when you are well, but if you are sick >you have to look for help elsewhere. Even getting your third level Reiki does not make you into "a master" in the sense that the word is applied to many other arts, Asian or Western. One of the comforting ideas that I am willing to accept, tentatively, is the one that Hiroshi Doi-sensei puts forward: attunements are not enough -- we have to do Reiki sessions (on self and others) and also engage in meditative exercises, all of which develop the ability to channel Reiki more effectively. Doi-sensei communicates that this is the Japanese understanding, as differentiated from the Western desire for "instant" learning, instant effectiveness. The energy is universal, and "not our own," but we must learn through practice to make use of it better. >It's at moments like this that I feel like a dissatisfied customer. All >that money spent doing my reiki attunements.. I want my money back!! > >Chacal > One of the reasons that I enjoy this newsgroup is that people do give feedback. You can ask questions, and generally you will get at least a few responses. Answers based on reason or experience will not, of course, walk the path for you. Answers that people can formulate in words are just "painted cakes" -- and "painted cakes do not satisfy hunger." There is not substitute for each of us working at becoming better healers. I have e-mailed back and forth with some people who, in terms of their individual life story, seem to be natural healers -- for whom healing ability showed itself in youth, long before they got their first Reiki attunement. These people may start out in an advanced position, when they receive their attunements. (Mozart was writing significant classical music by time he was 10, whereas many other musicians and composers are fortunate if they have mastered the piano part for one of his compositions by time they are 28.) The rest of us must work to progress, though I do not mean to strain or try to force anything. Having said all this, I am truly amazed in some ways at what Reiki has done for me emotionally, mentally, and even physically. But I still find physical healing to be the toughest nut to crack, in general. Blessings, Joel ###### From: "Rick Bailey" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 28 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 22:41:40 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.180.62.99 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@iquest.net X-Trace: news.iquest.net 1042428558 204.180.62.99 (Sun, 12 Jan 2003 22:29:18 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 22:29:18 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news.iquest.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2391 Reiki isn't the cure-all to end all suffering. It is a point in your life in which you acknowledge that you want to move further on down the road of spirituality. You make that decision, whether understanding the full impact of it or not (but it ultimately is your spirit who desires this growth), and then your life follows that decision. Frustrating when you get what you want... I too have been in that boat. It's not that I learned how to walk on water, but how to tread it. How not to panic in case the boat tips. How to relax, and in doing just that, surviving situations that would have drowned me otherwise. I believe that healing abilities should be observed as that which we've always had since birth. And this wondrous experience that we take part of at some point in our life is just our realization of this gift. The cognition of who we really are. The removal of the doubt. The learning of how not to panic. To relax. It has been observed in scientific research that the human body heals itself mostly at night. When it's at rest. Maybe if we all learn how not to be stress-puppies we'll realize that each one of us is a Reiki Master... no labels... no classifications... just infinite abilities . . . Rick "Chacal" wrote in message news:aiMl+PAENdI+Ewxb@charted.freeserve.co.uk... ###### From: "Vanessa" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 36 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 22:03:51 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.208.85.160 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1042427052 216.208.85.160 (Sun, 12 Jan 2003 22:04:12 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 22:04:12 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.magnet.ch!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2420 Maybe reikiing the medicine would be of help or reikiing something else... If you have an allergy to something, have had shingles 2 times since November, maybe the allergy and or the allergy has left some 'damage', the doctor isn't seeing something and this is why nothing is helping. I can't help remembering the person that wrote about her sick horse who just wasn't getting better despite vet care and reiki. The horse had a cut that just wouldn't heal. At some point it was discovered that this horse had a sliver or something where this cut was, and if the cut had of healed over, I imagine there would have been more pain and possible serious infection for the horse, of course it would have been a relief for the owner. I find it odd that your doctor wouldn't give you meds for this last infection, but have you sought a second opinion or dug deep into his opinion. Good Luck, Blessed Be, Vanessa "Soul Purpose" wrote in message news:lglU9.22435$jM5.60311@newsfeeds.bigpond.com... > Hi Chacal, > > Just a thought, it might be worth asking for Reiki from here (AHR). You > never know, maybe a whole lot of Reiki from all over the world might help! > > Love and Light, Danni > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002 ###### From: Chacal Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:24:11 +0000 Organization: changelater Lines: 56 Sender: Ted Message-ID: References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.137.37.90 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk 1042464335 4779 62.137.37.90 (13 Jan 2003 13:25:35 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Jan 2003 13:25:35 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!charted.freeserve.co.uk!ted Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2445 >Chacal, good to hear from you! Hi Garry, Nice to hear from you too. It has been a while.. :) > >OK, so how do you know the Reiki didn't help? Maybe without it you >would have turned belly up and died from your common cold. ;-) lol >Seriously, maybe something else needed healing more seriously than the >things that *you* thought needed healing. Maybe. Right now I think my physical body NEEDS healing though. Today I went to work for the first time after all this and I wasn't at my fittest, I can tell you that.. >Perhaps even your >understanding about Reiki is what needs healing, and this is being >brought up now so that you can dig into it. Hmmmmmm > >As for your statement that medical help is necessary in a moment of >crisis--damn straight it is! Reiki isn't a magic wand, any more than >any other modality. How many times have you been told that when we >give Reiki, we are not supposed to be attached to outcomes? And what >is the reason for us being told that? Just something to think about. Do you mean by that that we are not supposed to expect any results? If that's the case it doesn't seem to be much point spending the time having reiki.. > >That said, has there ever been a time for you when Reiki was noticably >helpful? Are we throwing those times out with the bathwater? I can't think of many times when reiki has been noticeably helpful. Reiki has eased a headache or a backache sometimes, but ultimately if things were getting to bad I had to take painkillers or go to the osteopath. When I first was attuned to reiki I was so excited.. My husband was suffering from arthritis in his knees at the time and I thought I could cure him with reiki. I gave him reiki a few times but he wasn't feeling any better, so eventually I stopped. Now his arthritis seems to be a lot better, after using special supplements and diet, but reiki didn't do anything for him. > >BTW, no, you haven't "lost" your Reiki. It's there forever, or for as >long as you live, whichever warranty runs out first. Good to know! :) > >Hope this has been helpful! > >Love and Light, > >Garry > Thanks for your comments anyway. Love and Light to you too, Chacal ###### From: Chacal Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:52:58 +0000 Organization: changelater Lines: 48 Sender: Ted Message-ID: References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.137.21.53 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk 1042473154 8636 62.137.21.53 (13 Jan 2003 15:52:34 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Jan 2003 15:52:34 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!charted.freeserve.co.uk!ted Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2446 Thank you all for your feedback and support, you are very kind. I thought I was going to get shouted at in here for being negative about something you believe in. :) It shows that you are very open minded. I'll do my best to reply to your comments. Danni: Thank you. I think I'll accept your suggestion of asking for reiki here. So yes, Reiki would be appreciated. A lot of reiki can be better than a little reiki.. :) Stuart: I like what your RM says "if you are ill, take a pill" It shows someone that takes a practical approach in life. I'll remember that.. Joel: I find very interesting what you said about engaging in meditative exercises, to develop the ability to channel Reiki more effectively. If that's the case I'm in trouble since I hardly ever meditate. I'm meaning to do it but I never seem to find the time.. I was never told that meditating would improve your reiki. In that case I think RMs should emphasise this. And I agree with you, physical healing is the toughest one to crack, in my case anyway, more than mental or emotional. Rick: As you say, learning how to relax, how not to panic, is a very important thing, and a difficult one for me to follow. I'm afraid when it comes to reiki, or to any other form of alternative therapy for that matter, I get very attached to the outcome and I get very frustrated when I don't see positive results. Vanessa: I had shingles twice before I had the allergy or this heavy cold. Do you know what? It doesn't surprise me, unpleasant as it is. Shingles leaves your immune system very low and you feel very run down for quite sometime. What I need to do now is to build up my immune system. Don't be surprised about the doctor not giving me meds. for this last infection. Doctors in the UK on the NHS are very reluctant to prescribe anything for some ailments, specially antibiotics. I had to visit her twice and insist that she gave me something else for my eye, since it wasn't getting any better. After much discussion she prescribed antibiotic drops, otherwise my eye would still be red and swollen. I believe that eyes are very delicate things and you should treat them properly. Colds are different, you can learn how to put up with them, even if you may feel awful on the meantime and they seem to go on forever.. Anyway, thank you all again for your help. Love and Light to you all Chacal ###### From: xwoodvine@netidea.com (Joel) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:07:19 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 43 Message-ID: <3e22ef46.114552577@news.netidea.com> References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-587.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.online.be!oleane.net!oleane!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2394 On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:52:58 +0000, Chacal wrote: > >Joel: I find very interesting what you said about engaging in meditative >exercises, to develop the ability to channel Reiki more effectively. If >that's the case I'm in trouble since I hardly ever meditate. I'm meaning >to do it but I never seem to find the time.. I was never told that >meditating would improve your reiki. In that case I think RMs should >emphasise this. And I agree with you, physical healing is the toughest >one to crack, in my case anyway, more than mental or emotional. > Chacal, it was Judy Rigby who initially sent me the instructions for hatsureiho breathing-meditation. By the way, you can do it in any comfortable upright position, and do not have to sit in the Japanese seiza style. You can find instructions at: http://www.sharereiki.org/japan/hatsureiho.htm Apparently when Takata first started teaching Westerners, she did not feel that a daily meditative discipline would appeal to us or be something we would be likely to make into a habit. For that reason or possibly some other one, hatsureiho was neglected in the West for 15 or 20 years after Reiki attunements began to be made available in North America and Europe. Another unfortunate thing (to my way of thinking): in Western (Takata) style Reiki, Level 1 is said to make possible physical healing, whereas more emotional/mental/spiritual healing is said to be possible with more advanced attunements. But *that* makes it seem like physical healing is the most accessible aspect, whereas most Reiki practioners -- even ones who have high-level attunements and have been doing it for years -- say that physical healing is less frequently obvious as an outcome of Reiki sessions. Discussions such as what we have here on ahr will probably contribute to a better understanding, and Reiki may be taught differently in the future as a result of people communicating. Blessings, Joel ###### From: "El Roberto" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:09:30 +0100 Organization: Aster City Net Lines: 56 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 118-bem-2.acn.waw.pl X-Trace: foka.acn.pl 1042481329 4153 62.121.81.118 (13 Jan 2003 18:08:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@astercity.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:08:49 +0000 (UTC) X-Tech-Contact: usenet@astercity.net X-Server-Info: http://www.astercity.net/news/ X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed.tpinternet.pl!news2.icm.edu.pl!news.ipartners.pl!news.nask.pl!news.astercity.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2379 Hello there! I think it might be useful for You to tune into the distant reiju broadcast performed by Taggard every Monday. It really works and it might also help You to power up Your Reiki. Today is Monday so You can try right away, it'll take some 15 minutes, and it's worth trying! Here's the address to the web page where You can read some more about it: http://www.reiki-evolution.co.uk/reijubroadcast.htm Hope it'll help you! Seeya El Roberto "Chacal" wrote in message news:aiMl+PAENdI+Ewxb@charted.freeserve.co.uk... > Hi, I thought I'd come out of lurking mode to ask a question that is > bothering me. Is it possible to loose your Reiki? > I was attuned to Reiki level 2 about three years ago. Though I hardly > have the time to practice on others, I reiki myself almost daily. I sit > in front of the TV and give myself reiki for the entire length of a > film, sometimes longer. In spite of this my health hasn't been all that > great lately. I've had shingles twice since November. I am better now > after a course of tablets and just time. Reiki didn't seem to do all > that much for me or speed it up. Recently I've had an allergic reaction > that left one of my eyes swollen, red and streaming. Still Reiki didn't > help. I am better now thanks to the antibiotic drops that the doctor > prescribed. I am also having a very bad cold since the beginning of the > year. My throat is swollen and it's painful to swallow, my ears are > blocked and can't hear all that well at times, according to the doctor > they are a bit infected. Still, no amount of Reiki seems to make any > difference, and since the doctor didn't give me anything for this I have > to put up with it until it goes. Reiki doesn't seem to help, even though > last night I spent the entire evening reiking myself. > I don't get it. Either my Reiki "touch" has gone, or perhaps Reiki > doesn't work all that well after all.. > I think in moments of crisis you have to go back to conventional > medicine, or perhaps to other forms of therapy. When I lie in bed at > night I often get attacks of coughing, with the risk of waking up my > partner and the whole house! So it's not reiki that helps me at those > times, but Acupressure. I lie in bed pressing the acupressure points for > coughs and it goes away. > I think reiki enhances your life when you are well, but if you are sick > you have to look for help elsewhere.. > It's at moments like this that I feel like a dissatisfied customer. All > that money spent doing my reiki attunements.. I want my money back!! > > Chacal > > > ###### From: "El Roberto" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:11:00 +0100 Organization: Aster City Net Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 118-bem-2.acn.waw.pl X-Trace: foka.acn.pl 1042481438 4215 62.121.81.118 (13 Jan 2003 18:10:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@astercity.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:10:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Tech-Contact: usenet@astercity.net X-Server-Info: http://www.astercity.net/news/ X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!news-stoc.telia.net!news-stoa.telia.net!telia.net!newsfeed.tpinternet.pl!news.ipartners.pl!news.astercity.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2380 By the way, Reiki On The Way! "Chacal" wrote in message news:aiMl+PAENdI+Ewxb@charted.freeserve.co.uk... > Hi, I thought I'd come out of lurking mode to ask a question that is > bothering me. Is it possible to loose your Reiki? > I was attuned to Reiki level 2 about three years ago. Though I hardly > have the time to practice on others, I reiki myself almost daily. I sit > in front of the TV and give myself reiki for the entire length of a > film, sometimes longer. In spite of this my health hasn't been all that > great lately. I've had shingles twice since November. I am better now > after a course of tablets and just time. Reiki didn't seem to do all > that much for me or speed it up. Recently I've had an allergic reaction > that left one of my eyes swollen, red and streaming. Still Reiki didn't > help. I am better now thanks to the antibiotic drops that the doctor > prescribed. I am also having a very bad cold since the beginning of the > year. My throat is swollen and it's painful to swallow, my ears are > blocked and can't hear all that well at times, according to the doctor > they are a bit infected. Still, no amount of Reiki seems to make any > difference, and since the doctor didn't give me anything for this I have > to put up with it until it goes. Reiki doesn't seem to help, even though > last night I spent the entire evening reiking myself. > I don't get it. Either my Reiki "touch" has gone, or perhaps Reiki > doesn't work all that well after all.. > I think in moments of crisis you have to go back to conventional > medicine, or perhaps to other forms of therapy. When I lie in bed at > night I often get attacks of coughing, with the risk of waking up my > partner and the whole house! So it's not reiki that helps me at those > times, but Acupressure. I lie in bed pressing the acupressure points for > coughs and it goes away. > I think reiki enhances your life when you are well, but if you are sick > you have to look for help elsewhere.. > It's at moments like this that I feel like a dissatisfied customer. All > that money spent doing my reiki attunements.. I want my money back!! > > Chacal > > > ###### From: "Vanessa" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 34 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:15:56 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.208.193.156 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1042493772 216.208.193.156 (Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:36:12 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:36:12 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!torn!ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2468 > Vanessa: I had shingles twice before I had the allergy or this heavy > cold. Do you know what? It doesn't surprise me, unpleasant as it is. Yes I had it as a child once, even tho I don't remember.... A low immunity is not just physical, it affects mental, and emotional abilities also. So take care, and hopefully a good strong dose of healing will boost everything you need to get past all this. (Wow! I marvel at the songs that come on when I'm replying to emails on this forum, right now there is a concert by the BeeGees 'Words' - I think that is the name - "Smile an Everlasting Smile...... ") It's kind of a good thing that your doctors don't go WillyNilly with the antibiotics as there was mention around places of penecillin resistant dis-eases. It's possible looking into some more natural things may help tho, a common immune booster is garlic, eating it has lots of benefits. Colds are no fun and actually can weaken eyes. Some doctors (probably more than I realize, I'm talking eye doctors, as some illnesses, especially those connected with neuro activity leave signs in the eyes, so just a guess, swelling in your eye may be connected in some way.) can tell what illness you've had or are having by your eyes. And another thought, maybe concentrating some healing there may help. Blessed Be, Vanessa Einstein said, The world we have made is a result of the level of thinking we have done thus far. We cannot solve problems at the same level at which we created them. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002 ###### From: "Vanessa" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 56 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:42:20 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.208.193.156 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1042494161 216.208.193.156 (Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:42:41 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:42:41 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!213.253.16.105.MISMATCH!mephistopheles.news.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!torn!ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2469 > Do you mean by that that we are not supposed to expect any results? If > that's the case it doesn't seem to be much point spending the time > having reiki.. Some times we get so glued or stuck on a certain result we refuse to see anything else. For example with reiki, you have stated that 'what is the point?' Going back to your original request and replies, this comes from expectation. And as it has been stated, you have reiki (whether you forget how to use it or not) and that is the point. Because you aren't getting what you have expected, you aren't seeing what you have and what you have (been) given. Time to take a look. You mentioned that you thought you could cure your husband with reiki. There have been some who have cured some pretty major illnesses, and many spent more than just a few sessions and more than just the typical time on them. If you are sticking to the 'first lesson' idea (5 mins in each position) you might try following intuition and going against common or logical thought. Maybe meditation on say your immune system and just your immune system, might offer the break thru you are looking for in healing yourself. The idea being that physiologically, mentally and emotionally we are all different and reiki seems to help ppl to see we all have different needs and goals and to honour them, so often the 'first lesson' idea needs to be adjusted with time and individual thought. Reiki is not like a medication, but can alleviate until a pill is taken, add to a pill, or adjust you so the pills will work and can actually cure (longstanding illnesses often take more time in length/dedication and how often it is needed). It teaches patience, and unconditional love, often thru experience. Many ppl don't heal at the hands of a reiki healer, but rather the reiki is the catalyst to the much needed adjustment in habit, social training/approval, and diet (coincidentally, altho it may not be the happiest thought, but it has been said that often dis-ease can be there for that reason, if you don't change, the lessons get deeper and a dis-ease ensues to force a change). IE if you are a workaholic, illnesses that make you rest or that give you time to see what you have been missing is common. There are also those who have the diet or adjustment and find little change or have trouble with it but after the reiki, what didn't work does. In some ways it is better to not be the one who cured the illness. Reiki isn't about big heads, or ego which tends to be what seeps in when we believe we can cure an illness that most can't. (Just me pouring milk on my soapbox, but also I hope this offers you something to look forward to) Blessed Be, Vanessa Einstein said, The world we have made is a result of the level of thinking we have done thus far. We cannot solve problems at the same level at which we created them. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002 ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3e237a47.9163238@news.earthlink.net> References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> <3e22ef46.114552577@news.netidea.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 36 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 02:37:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.247.131.115 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1042511858 165.247.131.115 (Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:37:38 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:37:38 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!207.217.77.102!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2460 Joel, something you said below just sparked a random thought in my head. I'll share it on the off-chance that someone with more smarts and experience than I might want to either expand on it, or else point out its flaws so we can get on with the good stuff. On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:07:19 GMT, xwoodvine@netidea.com (Joel) wrote: >Another unfortunate thing (to my way of thinking): in Western >(Takata) style Reiki, Level 1 is said to make possible physical >healing, whereas more emotional/mental/spiritual healing is said to be >possible with more advanced attunements. But *that* makes it seem >like physical healing is the most accessible aspect, whereas most >Reiki practioners -- even ones who have high-level attunements and >have been doing it for years -- say that physical healing is less >frequently obvious as an outcome of Reiki sessions. Perhaps the idea is to use the ego-drawing concept of becoming "super-healer" to hook us, then reel us in to do the real healing, ie, the mental/emotional/spiritual healing. A little white lie or embellishment on the truth to attract and hold us past the eye-candy until we can get into the real thing? Just a thought. >Discussions such as what we have here on ahr will probably contribute >to a better understanding, and Reiki may be taught differently in the >future as a result of people communicating. We can only hope. :-) Love and Light, Garry ###### From: Chacal Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:27:51 +0000 Organization: changelater Lines: 42 Sender: Ted Message-ID: References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> <3e22ef46.114552577@news.netidea.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.137.33.220 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 1042554586 11482 62.137.33.220 (14 Jan 2003 14:29:46 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Jan 2003 14:29:46 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!newspeer.lavaseals.co.uk!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!charted.freeserve.co.uk!ted Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2477 Thanks Joel. I've come across this website before and I've gone as far as copying the exercises but I've never done them. It all sounds a bit complicated, I suppose it's like anything until you learn it.. I will definitely have a go at this as soon as I have the time. Do you have to it everyday? I wonder why my RMs never mentioned anything about hatsureiho.. Well, you learn a lot in here :) Love and Light Chacal >> >Chacal, it was Judy Rigby who initially sent me the instructions for >hatsureiho breathing-meditation. By the way, you can do it in any >comfortable upright position, and do not have to sit in the Japanese >seiza style. You can find instructions at: > >http://www.sharereiki.org/japan/hatsureiho.htm > >Apparently when Takata first started teaching Westerners, she did not >feel that a daily meditative discipline would appeal to us or be >something we would be likely to make into a habit. For that reason or >possibly some other one, hatsureiho was neglected in the West for 15 >or 20 years after Reiki attunements began to be made available in >North America and Europe. > >Another unfortunate thing (to my way of thinking): in Western >(Takata) style Reiki, Level 1 is said to make possible physical >healing, whereas more emotional/mental/spiritual healing is said to be >possible with more advanced attunements. But *that* makes it seem >like physical healing is the most accessible aspect, whereas most >Reiki practioners -- even ones who have high-level attunements and >have been doing it for years -- say that physical healing is less >frequently obvious as an outcome of Reiki sessions. > >Discussions such as what we have here on ahr will probably contribute >to a better understanding, and Reiki may be taught differently in the >future as a result of people communicating. > >Blessings, > >Joel ###### From: Chacal Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:49:32 +0000 Organization: changelater Lines: 27 Sender: Ted Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.137.33.220 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 1042554587 11482 62.137.33.220 (14 Jan 2003 14:29:47 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Jan 2003 14:29:47 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!newspeer.lavaseals.co.uk!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!charted.freeserve.co.uk!ted Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2475 Hi Roberto, Thank you for the web address. I went in last night and didn't get much, apart from a tingly feeling in my spine. Well, I suppose that's something.. Now that I'm rereading your post, you said that it takes about 15 minutes. I was only there for about 5 minutes at most, as I was busy at the time. Maybe that's why it didn't work so well.. I will have another go next Monday. Thanks again. Blessings Chacal >Hello there! > >I think it might be useful for You to tune into the distant reiju broadcast >performed by Taggard every Monday. It really works and it might also help >You to power up Your Reiki. Today is Monday so You can try right away, it'll >take some 15 minutes, and it's worth trying! > >Here's the address to the web page where You can read some more about it: >http://www.reiki-evolution.co.uk/reijubroadcast.htm > >Hope it'll help you! > >Seeya > >El Roberto > > ###### From: Chacal Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:28:16 +0000 Organization: changelater Lines: 37 Sender: Ted Message-ID: References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.137.33.220 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 1042554589 11482 62.137.33.220 (14 Jan 2003 14:29:49 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Jan 2003 14:29:49 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!newspeer.lavaseals.co.uk!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!charted.freeserve.co.uk!ted Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2473 Thanks Vanessa, I'm intending to do a web search about the immune system, see what I get.. Medline is usually very good for such things. I know that garlic is good, if you can take it without it upsetting your stomach! (raw garlic, I mean). At the moment I'm taking plenty of vitamin C and doing acupressure exercises to boost the immune system. Blessings Chacal >> Vanessa: I had shingles twice before I had the allergy or this heavy >> cold. Do you know what? It doesn't surprise me, unpleasant as it is. > >Yes I had it as a child once, even tho I don't remember.... A low immunity >is not just physical, it affects mental, and emotional abilities also. So >take care, and hopefully a good strong dose of healing will boost everything >you need to get past all this. (Wow! I marvel at the songs that come on >when I'm replying to emails on this forum, right now there is a concert by >the BeeGees 'Words' - I think that is the name - "Smile an Everlasting >Smile...... ") It's kind of a good thing that your doctors don't go >WillyNilly with the antibiotics as there was mention around places of >penecillin resistant dis-eases. It's possible looking into some more >natural things may help tho, a common immune booster is garlic, eating it >has lots of benefits. Colds are no fun and actually can weaken eyes. Some >doctors (probably more than I realize, I'm talking eye doctors, as some >illnesses, especially those connected with neuro activity leave signs in the >eyes, so just a guess, swelling in your eye may be connected in some way.) >can tell what illness you've had or are having by your eyes. And another >thought, maybe concentrating some healing there may help. > >Blessed Be, >Vanessa > >Einstein said, The world we have made is a result of the level of >thinking we have done thus far. We cannot solve problems at the >same level at which we created them. > > ###### From: xwoodvine@netidea.com (Joel) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:08:26 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 34 Message-ID: <3e243435.129561441@news.netidea.com> References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> <3e22ef46.114552577@news.netidea.com> <3e237a47.9163238@news.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-484.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!luth.se!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2457 On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 02:37:38 GMT, nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) wrote: >Joel, something you said below just sparked a random thought in my >head. I'll share it on the off-chance that someone with more smarts >and experience than I might want to either expand on it, or else point >out its flaws so we can get on with the good stuff. > >Perhaps the idea is to use the ego-drawing concept of becoming >"super-healer" to hook us, then reel us in to do the real healing, ie, >the mental/emotional/spiritual healing. A little white lie or >embellishment on the truth to attract and hold us past the eye-candy >until we can get into the real thing? > Hi, Garry Yes, I've thought the same. But I believe it is not just "the ego" that is attracted to the notion of learning to heal (do physical healing). People with a desire to serve and help other people can be attracted -- much like those who go into careers (or volunteer work) in search & rescue, or hospitals, or psychotherapy, disaster-relief work, or hospice work. Also, people who have a personal need for physical healing may be attracted to it for reasons other than "ego" -- if what we mean by "ego" is some sort of conceit, or some kind of "I'm rather special, aren't I?" Namaste, Joel ###### From: xwoodvine@netidea.com (Joel) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:21:29 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 53 Message-ID: <3e24361f.130051136@news.netidea.com> References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> <3e22ef46.114552577@news.netidea.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-669.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!logbridge.uoregon.edu!tethys.csu.net!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2458 On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:27:51 +0000, Chacal wrote: >Thanks Joel. I've come across this website before and I've gone as far >as copying the exercises but I've never done them. It all sounds a bit >complicated, I suppose it's like anything until you learn it.. It becomes one fluid routine, and does not take long to get to that point -- a week at most. > I will >definitely have a go at this as soon as I have the time. Do you have to >it everyday? If you want to do an Asian-style self-development, you do it daily. A lot like paths like Zen or meditative yoga. I do it pretty much daily, sometimes for more time, sometimes only five minutes, depending on how the particular day is working out. I have a job and other involvements and responsibilities, so.............. >I wonder why my RMs never mentioned anything about >hatsureiho.. Well, you learn a lot in here :) > Well, this is an interesting question. Perhaps other people will post to kind of propose an answer from multiple perspectives. I remember 18 months or so ago, there was a thread and someone described the hatsureiho technique. There was an RM who had also been studying qi gong and other techniques, and he posted and said something like "hey, wait a minute -- that's qi gong, not Reiki." And then a couple people pointed out that in Japan the Reiki-ists often do hatsureiho. Here's one idea: Most of the lineages in N America, U.K., Europe, Australia, New Zealand go back to Takata. I fully credit and respect her. But she didn't teach hatsureiho, so it has only been introduced into the West directly from Japan, and since about 1996, from what I have been able to learn. But it is only fair to mention another approach, which is "Reiki as guided by spirits, angels, or devas." Some people feel that these beings do the Reiki work through the Reiki practitioner. So it raises a question as to whether self-development is needed at all. However, this external-spirit-being approach is apparently not the Japanese approach, because they *do* believe in self-development as part of what Reiki practice is about. Namaste, Joel ###### From: "D/A Fischer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 40 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:24:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.244.30.190 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1042730662 216.244.30.190 (Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:24:22 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:24:22 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!chi1.webusenet.com!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2496 > Do you mean by that that we are not supposed to expect any results? If > that's the case it doesn't seem to be much point spending the time > having reiki.. Reiki sometimes requires a whopping leap of faith, specifically when we do not *see* the results. One must know in their heart that good is being done. Just trust. (easier said than done sometimes. ) > I can't think of many times when reiki has been noticeably helpful. > Reiki has eased a headache or a backache sometimes, but ultimately if > things were getting to bad I had to take painkillers or go to the > osteopath. When I first was attuned to reiki I was so excited.. My > husband was suffering from arthritis in his knees at the time and I > thought I could cure him with reiki. I gave him reiki a few times but he > wasn't feeling any better, so eventually I stopped. Now his arthritis > seems to be a lot better, after using special supplements and diet, but > reiki didn't do anything for him. First of all, you are not God. You can *cure* no others. Whether or not they accept the Reiki is up to them, but it is there for the taking. So you maybe had in your mind that a few sessions is all it would take and *bang* he's better. That is "expecting a certain outcome" which I can almost guarantee will disapoint everytime. Maybe this is more a test of your belief in Reiki and whether or not it works. You sense of channeling energy/amount of energy may get stronger as you use it more (I'm still not quite sure about that one myself ), but one thing I know is you cannot *lose* your Reiki. It is universal and unconditional. Just trust. Those two little words were extremely hard for me to fathom............when I did not *see* results my ego would jump in and decry everything. It was much better for me to think the system was flawed, then to believe that *I* did not have the effect I thought was necessary. I hope some of this has been helpful. Love and Light, Gyps ###### From: "D/A Fischer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:41:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.244.30.190 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1042731662 216.244.30.190 (Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:41:02 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 07:41:02 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!newsfeed.frii.net!140.99.99.194.MISMATCH!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2501 > Many ppl don't heal at the hands of a reiki healer, but rather the reiki is > the catalyst to the much needed adjustment in habit, social > training/approval, and diet (coincidentally, altho it may not be the > happiest thought, but it has been said that often dis-ease can be there for > that reason, if you don't change, the lessons get deeper and a dis-ease > ensues to force a change). I really like this part, Ness. Very well put, and for me very true. Love and Light, Gyps ###### Message-ID: <3E2BBD56.6050805@verizon.net> From: squibcake User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 48 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:11:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.84.242.149 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1043057478 162.84.242.149 (Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:11:18 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:11:18 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!chi1.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2599 Reiki always helps! It goes to where it is needed. many times I do reiki and dont know if I feel any different, but later I know and feel better. Now as far as being really sick. I treat cancer patients often and they are quite sicker then you have expressed and they respond appropiately. Perhaps it is something else. Sometimes in the procces of healing we must expediate the negative so we can respond to healing or positive energy. it may feel that you are worst, but perhaps you are purging out so you can really get the reiki energy to the places in your life that it really need it when it needs it. I hope this makes sense. Squib Chacal wrote: > Hi, I thought I'd come out of lurking mode to ask a question that is > bothering me. Is it possible to loose your Reiki? > I was attuned to Reiki level 2 about three years ago. Though I hardly > have the time to practice on others, I reiki myself almost daily. I sit > in front of the TV and give myself reiki for the entire length of a > film, sometimes longer. In spite of this my health hasn't been all that > great lately. I've had shingles twice since November. I am better now > after a course of tablets and just time. Reiki didn't seem to do all > that much for me or speed it up. Recently I've had an allergic reaction > that left one of my eyes swollen, red and streaming. Still Reiki didn't > help. I am better now thanks to the antibiotic drops that the doctor > prescribed. I am also having a very bad cold since the beginning of the > year. My throat is swollen and it's painful to swallow, my ears are > blocked and can't hear all that well at times, according to the doctor > they are a bit infected. Still, no amount of Reiki seems to make any > difference, and since the doctor didn't give me anything for this I have > to put up with it until it goes. Reiki doesn't seem to help, even though > last night I spent the entire evening reiking myself. > I don't get it. Either my Reiki "touch" has gone, or perhaps Reiki > doesn't work all that well after all.. > I think in moments of crisis you have to go back to conventional > medicine, or perhaps to other forms of therapy. When I lie in bed at > night I often get attacks of coughing, with the risk of waking up my > partner and the whole house! So it's not reiki that helps me at those > times, but Acupressure. I lie in bed pressing the acupressure points for > coughs and it goes away. > I think reiki enhances your life when you are well, but if you are sick > you have to look for help elsewhere.. > It's at moments like this that I feel like a dissatisfied customer. All > that money spent doing my reiki attunements.. I want my money back!! > > Chacal > > > ###### Message-ID: <3E2BBD56.6050805@verizon.net> From: squibcake User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 48 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:11:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.84.242.149 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1043057478 162.84.242.149 (Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:11:18 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 05:11:18 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!chi1.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2610 Reiki always helps! It goes to where it is needed. many times I do reiki and dont know if I feel any different, but later I know and feel better. Now as far as being really sick. I treat cancer patients often and they are quite sicker then you have expressed and they respond appropiately. Perhaps it is something else. Sometimes in the procces of healing we must expediate the negative so we can respond to healing or positive energy. it may feel that you are worst, but perhaps you are purging out so you can really get the reiki energy to the places in your life that it really need it when it needs it. I hope this makes sense. Squib Chacal wrote: > Hi, I thought I'd come out of lurking mode to ask a question that is > bothering me. Is it possible to loose your Reiki? > I was attuned to Reiki level 2 about three years ago. Though I hardly > have the time to practice on others, I reiki myself almost daily. I sit > in front of the TV and give myself reiki for the entire length of a > film, sometimes longer. In spite of this my health hasn't been all that > great lately. I've had shingles twice since November. I am better now > after a course of tablets and just time. Reiki didn't seem to do all > that much for me or speed it up. Recently I've had an allergic reaction > that left one of my eyes swollen, red and streaming. Still Reiki didn't > help. I am better now thanks to the antibiotic drops that the doctor > prescribed. I am also having a very bad cold since the beginning of the > year. My throat is swollen and it's painful to swallow, my ears are > blocked and can't hear all that well at times, according to the doctor > they are a bit infected. Still, no amount of Reiki seems to make any > difference, and since the doctor didn't give me anything for this I have > to put up with it until it goes. Reiki doesn't seem to help, even though > last night I spent the entire evening reiking myself. > I don't get it. Either my Reiki "touch" has gone, or perhaps Reiki > doesn't work all that well after all.. > I think in moments of crisis you have to go back to conventional > medicine, or perhaps to other forms of therapy. When I lie in bed at > night I often get attacks of coughing, with the risk of waking up my > partner and the whole house! So it's not reiki that helps me at those > times, but Acupressure. I lie in bed pressing the acupressure points for > coughs and it goes away. > I think reiki enhances your life when you are well, but if you are sick > you have to look for help elsewhere.. > It's at moments like this that I feel like a dissatisfied customer. All > that money spent doing my reiki attunements.. I want my money back!! > > Chacal > > > ###### From: Chacal Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:23:40 +0000 Organization: changelater Lines: 43 Sender: Ted Message-ID: References: <3e21dbd3.2184506@news.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.136.88.41 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 1043256174 9127 62.136.88.41 (22 Jan 2003 17:22:54 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jan 2003 17:22:54 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!peer1.news.newnet.co.uk!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!charted.freeserve.co.uk!ted Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2639 In article , D/A Fischer writes > >Reiki sometimes requires a whopping leap of faith, >specifically when we do not *see* the results. One >must know in their heart that good is being done. Just >trust. (easier said than done sometimes. ) I can agree with that. The problem is that I've always had trouble accepting things on faith alone.. I wish I had the faith in reiki that you all seem to have in here! :) As for "expecting a certain outcome" I used to that at the beginning. I have now learned not to expect all that much, and this is usually what I get.. lol. I still reiki myself almost daily though, just because it relaxes me and makes me feel I'm doing something good while I'm watching TV. :) Love and Light Chacal > > >First of all, you are not God. You can *cure* no others. Whether or not >they accept the Reiki is up to them, but it is there for the taking. So >you >maybe had in your mind that a few sessions is all it would take and >*bang* he's better. That is "expecting a certain outcome" which I can >almost guarantee will disapoint everytime. Maybe this is more a test >of your belief in Reiki and whether or not it works. You sense of >channeling energy/amount of energy may get stronger as you >use it more (I'm still not quite sure about that one myself ), but >one thing I know is you cannot *lose* your Reiki. It is universal >and unconditional. Just trust. Those two little words were extremely >hard for me to fathom............when I did not *see* results my ego would >jump in and decry everything. It was much better for me to think >the system was flawed, then to believe that *I* did not have the >effect I thought was necessary. I hope some of this has been helpful. > >Love and Light, Gyps > > > ###### From: "Roy Barlow" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 20:54:27 -0000 Lines: 47 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.76.134.12 X-Trace: news7.svr.pol.co.uk 1043355270 16560 81.76.134.12 (23 Jan 2003 20:54:30 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jan 2003 20:54:30 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2662 Hi Chacal I think your problem is more common than you think. Reiki 2 does not appear to have increased my Reiki ability as expected.In my case I have had no success with distance healing.My fingers go white in the cold weather and Reiki has had no appreciable effect on this.It does work on other members of the family however.But I am still disappointed. Hoping things improve Roy "Chacal" wrote in message news:aiMl+PAENdI+Ewxb@charted.freeserve.co.uk... > Hi, I thought I'd come out of lurking mode to ask a question that is > bothering me. Is it possible to loose your Reiki? > I was attuned to Reiki level 2 about three years ago. Though I hardly > have the time to practice on others, I reiki myself almost daily. I sit > in front of the TV and give myself reiki for the entire length of a > film, sometimes longer. In spite of this my health hasn't been all that > great lately. I've had shingles twice since November. I am better now > after a course of tablets and just time. Reiki didn't seem to do all > that much for me or speed it up. Recently I've had an allergic reaction > that left one of my eyes swollen, red and streaming. Still Reiki didn't > help. I am better now thanks to the antibiotic drops that the doctor > prescribed. I am also having a very bad cold since the beginning of the > year. My throat is swollen and it's painful to swallow, my ears are > blocked and can't hear all that well at times, according to the doctor > they are a bit infected. Still, no amount of Reiki seems to make any > difference, and since the doctor didn't give me anything for this I have > to put up with it until it goes. Reiki doesn't seem to help, even though > last night I spent the entire evening reiking myself. > I don't get it. Either my Reiki "touch" has gone, or perhaps Reiki > doesn't work all that well after all.. > I think in moments of crisis you have to go back to conventional > medicine, or perhaps to other forms of therapy. When I lie in bed at > night I often get attacks of coughing, with the risk of waking up my > partner and the whole house! So it's not reiki that helps me at those > times, but Acupressure. I lie in bed pressing the acupressure points for > coughs and it goes away. > I think reiki enhances your life when you are well, but if you are sick > you have to look for help elsewhere.. > It's at moments like this that I feel like a dissatisfied customer. All > that money spent doing my reiki attunements.. I want my money back!! > > Chacal > > > ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 28 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:30:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.247.161.16 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1043357453 165.247.161.16 (Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:30:53 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:30:53 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.newsfeed.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!151.164.30.35!cyclone.swbell.net!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2665 On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 20:54:27 -0000, "Roy Barlow" wrote: >Hi Chacal >I think your problem is more common than you think. >Reiki 2 does not appear to have increased my Reiki ability as expected.In my IMHO, those that advertise that getting attuned to the "next level" will "increase your ability to channel Reiki" are doing a great disservice to the community. A first level practitioner might be able to channel every bit as much Reiki as a "master" practitioner. After all, it is not so much the channel that determines how much energy is received, as it is the recipient! Another factor is how much does one practice? A first degree student who practices daily will probably be a much clearer channel than a 2nd degree or 3rd degree practitioner that only practices once in a blue moon. I'm sure there are other factors involved, and would like to hear others' experiences. This is what I have been taught and have come to believe. However, I'm open to hearing evidence or opinions to the contrary. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: "michael" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 49 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:24:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 144.132.90.228 X-Complaints-To: news@bigpond.net.au X-Trace: news-server.bigpond.net.au 1043360667 144.132.90.228 (Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:24:27 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:24:27 EST Organization: BigPond Internet Services (http://www.bigpond.net.au) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.hostname.nl!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!intgwlon.nntp.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!news-server.bigpond.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2689 Hi Chacal, Garry I feel that saying Reiki 1,2 3 etc. has an "increase" in anything is applying logic to something that works at right angles to logic. Does Reiki not work at a higher plane of which we can not be fully aware at our (human) stage of development? The best we can do is put our soul into when we do Reiki and trust implicitly that the "right" improvements can take place if all parties are willing. The dilemma is that the "right" is not the right that our logical mind says. Michael. "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message news:3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net... > On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 20:54:27 -0000, "Roy Barlow" > wrote: > > >Hi Chacal > >I think your problem is more common than you think. > >Reiki 2 does not appear to have increased my Reiki ability as expected.In my > > > > IMHO, those that advertise that getting attuned to the "next level" > will "increase your ability to channel Reiki" are doing a great > disservice to the community. A first level practitioner might be able > to channel every bit as much Reiki as a "master" practitioner. After > all, it is not so much the channel that determines how much energy is > received, as it is the recipient! Another factor is how much does one > practice? A first degree student who practices daily will probably be > a much clearer channel than a 2nd degree or 3rd degree practitioner > that only practices once in a blue moon. I'm sure there are other > factors involved, and would like to hear others' experiences. > > This is what I have been taught and have come to believe. However, I'm > open to hearing evidence or opinions to the contrary. > > Love and Light, > > Garry > > ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:40 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1043361630 29789124 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!opentransit.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2673 (Nadie Niemand) wrote: > IMHO, those that advertise that getting attuned to the "next level" > will "increase your ability to channel Reiki" are doing a great > disservice to the community Of course ... that was the old $$$$$$$$$$$ thing ... As more people get informed (increasingly through the Net), the fewer will get ripped off ... Stuart ###### Reply-To: "Steven Buck, CMT" From: "Steven Buck, CMT" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 44 Organization: http://www.metareiki.org X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.168.24.105 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr17.news.prodigy.com 1043367788 ST000 64.168.24.105 (Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:23:08 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 19:23:08 EST X-UserInfo1: O@YCR^_EFRWSP_@YMZJ\_Q\@TJ_ZTB\MV@BL\QMIWIWTEPIB_NVUAH_[BL[\IRKIANGGJBFNJF_DOLSCENSY^U@FRFUEXR@KFXYDBPWBCDQJA@X_DCBHXR[C@\EOKCJLED_SZ@RMWYXYWE_P@\\GOIW^@SYFFSWHFIXMADO@^[ADPRPETLBJ]RDGENSKQQZN Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 00:23:08 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.hostname.nl!news-xfer.cox.net!prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr17.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!9eb22389!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2692 If I remember correctly, Usui did not have Levels, just practice. I see pro's and cons to the levels but don't have the time to write about it just yet. ShadowWolf has something called a Singular Attunement, right? -- Steven Buck, CMT "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message news:3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net... > On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 20:54:27 -0000, "Roy Barlow" > wrote: > > >Hi Chacal > >I think your problem is more common than you think. > >Reiki 2 does not appear to have increased my Reiki ability as expected.In my > > > > IMHO, those that advertise that getting attuned to the "next level" > will "increase your ability to channel Reiki" are doing a great > disservice to the community. A first level practitioner might be able > to channel every bit as much Reiki as a "master" practitioner. After > all, it is not so much the channel that determines how much energy is > received, as it is the recipient! Another factor is how much does one > practice? A first degree student who practices daily will probably be > a much clearer channel than a 2nd degree or 3rd degree practitioner > that only practices once in a blue moon. I'm sure there are other > factors involved, and would like to hear others' experiences. > > This is what I have been taught and have come to believe. However, I'm > open to hearing evidence or opinions to the contrary. > > Love and Light, > > Garry > > > ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:39:58 -0800 Lines: 19 Message-ID: <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: sandpoint-189.imbris.com (216.18.141.189) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1043376013 29597961 216.18.141.189 (16 [130985]) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!uni-erlangen.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!sandpoint-189.imbris.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2656 "Steven Buck, CMT" wrote: > > If I remember correctly, Usui did not have Levels, just practice. > > I see pro's and cons to the levels but don't have the time to write about it > just yet. > > ShadowWolf has something called a Singular Attunement, right? Yes, and it makes some sense to me. I can't really see any reason for levels except maybe to accustom people to energy work if they're not used to it. I was, so having all the attunements in one evening (separate, not singular) was fine for me. When I do attunements, it's a singular one with the intention that it go to the receiver as much as they're able to handle, whenever they're able to handle it. Most of the people I've attuned have already had their level one or two, so they've got some experience with it already. namaste, sue ###### Reply-To: "Steven Buck, CMT" From: "Steven Buck, CMT" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 65 Organization: http://www.metareiki.org X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.123.206.216 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr14.news.prodigy.com 1043400860 ST000 66.123.206.216 (Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:34:20 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 04:34:20 EST X-UserInfo1: [[PA@SBE]JV_R_PYN[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFWIWTEPIB_NVUAH_[BL[\IRKIANGGJBFNJF_DOLSCENSY^U@FRFUEXR@KFXYDBPWBCDQJA@X_DCBHXR[C@\EOKCJLED_SZ@RMWYXYWE_P@\\GOIW^@SYFFSWHFIXMADO@^[ADPRPETLBJ]RDGENSKQQZN Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:34:20 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.hostname.nl!news.astraweb.com!news-small.astraweb.com!prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr14.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!9eb22389!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2685 Shortly after my Masters attunement I began to attune others. In the past I had always observed how the energy itself worked, and did the same with the attunement energies. Beginning Reiki, I did things the way I was told.... During the Level 1 Attunement process I noticed that some students drew more "Attunement" Reiki than others... for some it was their first "awakening" and they realized they could now channel reiki; others receiving the first attunement lit up like it was long over-due and radiated at the distance and even master level. I knew that some could immediately channel distance, and even effectively conduct attunements but my Reiki Training said it was not so. After a few attunements (followed by visions during zazen meditations and dreams with Usui that contradicted the Reiki classes) I began to tell students that a Reiki Master is a Reiki Channel, and as a Reiki Channel have no real control over the energy and did not believe I had the right to regulate how much healing energy they received, nor did I believe anyone really could regulate it. With respect to attunements, they would draw the level of attunement energy appropriate for their needs, and emphasis was placed with the need to be honest with themselves about where it was with them and their abilities. Some would be able to only channel directly with hands-on, and others would be able to perform it at a distance. I suggested they use the Levels only as a personal reference chart, and put no real credence into them. Just practice, and the energy will flow. As they practice more, the energy would increase and so to their own healing and ability to channel greater amounts. One frequently asked question was "This is my very first attunement - How will I know if I can channel at a distance?" The answer was simple: "try it." Hold your hands up in front of you, remember the Reiki energies from the attunement, and invite them to flow to the person for whom it is intended. If you feel the flow and are not touching anything, then the distance works. If not, that's okay just do it a different way - use a surrogate for hands-on. An example of a surrogate could be a pillow. Light a candle, sit back in the recliner, lay the pillow in your lap and imagine the pillow as the person... then begin the process just as if it was a direct hands-on. -- Steven Buck, CMT "suzee" wrote in message news:3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com... > "Steven Buck, CMT" wrote: > > > > If I remember correctly, Usui did not have Levels, just practice. > > > > I see pro's and cons to the levels but don't have the time to write about it > > just yet. > > > > ShadowWolf has something called a Singular Attunement, right? > > Yes, and it makes some sense to me. I can't really see any reason for > levels except maybe to accustom people to energy work if they're not > used to it. I was, so having all the attunements in one evening > (separate, not singular) was fine for me. When I do attunements, it's a > singular one with the intention that it go to the receiver as much as > they're able to handle, whenever they're able to handle it. Most of the > people I've attuned have already had their level one or two, so they've > got some experience with it already. > > namaste, sue ###### From: Chacal Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:34:52 +0000 Organization: changelater Lines: 16 Sender: Ted Message-ID: References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.137.39.88 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk 1043422528 14772 62.137.39.88 (24 Jan 2003 15:35:28 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jan 2003 15:35:28 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!colt.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!peer1.news.newnet.co.uk!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!charted.freeserve.co.uk!ted Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2682 Nadie Niemand writes > >IMHO, those that advertise that getting attuned to the "next level" >will "increase your ability to channel Reiki" are doing a great >disservice to the community. A first level practitioner might be able >to channel every bit as much Reiki as a "master" practitioner. I agree. You aren't taught the symbols on your first level so you can come back and pay more money.. This was so in my case. I was satisfied with my reiki at level 1 but wanted to know the symbols, not only for distance healing but because I was led to believe that if you know the symbols your reiki would be better. If this is true why don't they teach them in level one? It's all a big money-making business IMO. Chacal ###### From: "Roy Barlow" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 20:51:05 -0000 Lines: 54 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.135.145.26 X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 1043527868 4229 217.135.145.26 (25 Jan 2003 20:51:08 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jan 2003 20:51:08 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!newspeer.lavaseals.co.uk!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:2715 "Roy Barlow" wrote in message news:... > Hi Chacal > I think your problem is more common than you think. > Reiki 2 does not appear to have increased my Reiki ability as expected.In my > case I have had no success with distance healing.My fingers go white in the > cold weather and Reiki has had no appreciable effect on this.It does work on > other members of the family however.But I am still disappointed. > Hoping things improve > Roy > "Chacal" wrote in message > news:aiMl+PAENdI+Ewxb@charted.freeserve.co.uk... > > Hi, I thought I'd come out of lurking mode to ask a question that is > > bothering me. Is it possible to loose your Reiki? > > I was attuned to Reiki level 2 about three years ago. Though I hardly > > have the time to practice on others, I reiki myself almost daily. I sit > > in front of the TV and give myself reiki for the entire length of a > > film, sometimes longer. In spite of this my health hasn't been all that > > great lately. I've had shingles twice since November. I am better now > > after a course of tablets and just time. Reiki didn't seem to do all > > that much for me or speed it up. Recently I've had an allergic reaction > > that left one of my eyes swollen, red and streaming. Still Reiki didn't > > help. I am better now thanks to the antibiotic drops that the doctor > > prescribed. I am also having a very bad cold since the beginning of the > > year. My throat is swollen and it's painful to swallow, my ears are > > blocked and can't hear all that well at times, according to the doctor > > they are a bit infected. Still, no amount of Reiki seems to make any > > difference, and since the doctor didn't give me anything for this I have > > to put up with it until it goes. Reiki doesn't seem to help, even though > > last night I spent the entire evening reiking myself. > > I don't get it. Either my Reiki "touch" has gone, or perhaps Reiki > > doesn't work all that well after all.. > > I think in moments of crisis you have to go back to conventional > > medicine, or perhaps to other forms of therapy. When I lie in bed at > > night I often get attacks of coughing, with the risk of waking up my > > partner and the whole house! So it's not reiki that helps me at those > > times, but Acupressure. I lie in bed pressing the acupressure points for > > coughs and it goes away. > > I think reiki enhances your life when you are well, but if you are sick > > you have to look for help elsewhere.. > > It's at moments like this that I feel like a dissatisfied customer. All > > that money spent doing my reiki attunements.. I want my money back!! > > > > Chacal > > > > > > > > ###### From: "jan" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:51:06 +0100 Organization: Planet Internet Lines: 80 Message-ID: References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip503cee5c.speed.planet.nl X-Trace: reader08.wxs.nl 1045263279 14124 80.60.238.92 (14 Feb 2003 22:54:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@planet.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Feb 2003 22:54:39 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!cleanfeed.casema.net!leda.casema.net!newsfeed.wxs.nl!textnews.wxs.nl!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3047 Steven Buck, CMT schreef in berichtnieuws wM7Y9.482$%45.28273724@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com... > Shortly after my Masters attunement I began to attune others. In the past I > had always observed how the energy itself worked, and did the same with the > attunement energies. Beginning Reiki, I did things the way I was told.... > > During the Level 1 Attunement process I noticed that some students drew more > "Attunement" Reiki than others... for some it was their first "awakening" > and they realized they could now channel reiki; others receiving the first > attunement lit up like it was long over-due and radiated at the distance and > even master level. I knew that some could immediately channel distance, and > even effectively conduct attunements but my Reiki Training said it was not > so. > > After a few attunements (followed by visions during zazen meditations and > dreams with Usui that contradicted the Reiki classes) I began to tell > students that a Reiki Master is a Reiki Channel, and as a Reiki Channel have > no real control over the energy and did not believe I had the right to > regulate how much healing energy they received, nor did I believe anyone > really could regulate it. With respect to attunements, they would draw the > level of attunement energy appropriate for their needs, and emphasis was > placed with the need to be honest with themselves about where it was with > them and their abilities. Some would be able to only channel directly with > hands-on, and others would be able to perform it at a distance. I suggested > they use the Levels only as a personal reference chart, and put no real > credence into them. Just practice, and the energy will flow. As they > practice more, the energy would increase and so to their own healing and > ability to channel greater amounts. > > One frequently asked question was "This is my very first attunement - How > will I know if I can channel at a distance?" The answer was simple: "try > it." Hold your hands up in front of you, remember the Reiki energies from > the attunement, and invite them to flow to the person for whom it is > intended. If you feel the flow and are not touching anything, then the > distance works. If not, that's okay just do it a different way - use a > surrogate for hands-on. An example of a surrogate could be a pillow. Light > a candle, sit back in the recliner, lay the pillow in your lap and imagine > the pillow as the person... then begin the process just as if it was a > direct hands-on. > > -- > Steven Buck, CMT > > "suzee" wrote in message > news:3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com... > > "Steven Buck, CMT" wrote: > > > > > > If I remember correctly, Usui did not have Levels, just practice. > > > > > > I see pro's and cons to the levels but don't have the time to write > about it > > > just yet. > > > > > > ShadowWolf has something called a Singular Attunement, right? > > > > Yes, and it makes some sense to me. I can't really see any reason for > > levels except maybe to accustom people to energy work if they're not > > used to it. I was, so having all the attunements in one evening > > (separate, not singular) was fine for me. When I do attunements, it's a > > singular one with the intention that it go to the receiver as much as > > they're able to handle, whenever they're able to handle it. Most of the > > people I've attuned have already had their level one or two, so they've > > got some experience with it already. > > > > namaste, sue > > ###### Message-ID: <3E4E3341.6AB7940C@ch.inter.net> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:32:01 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,it,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.38.134 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.38.134 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045312311 62.202.38.134 (15 Feb 2003 13:31:51 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 133 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3051 HI Jan jan wrote: > I can easily imagine sending energy to someone without touching anything. I > can feel it flow too. I was never attuned to Reiki at all. Is this > attunement thing not mostly between the ears? That you need the ritual to be > able to believe you can channel this energy?  what do you feel .. when I was first  attuned I felt absolutely nothing  at all the second was teh same... I was in agroup of Violet Flame Reiki ( distant collective attunement) and there we were two  guys  me and another one ) that had the  impression of a sort of canteloupe melon going down the Crown  chacra  with some  f pouple  shadows colors around some otehr people had stronger effects  I do not mind as before coming to reiki I have done  yoga nd some tai qi and  a couple of others so the warm hands were already something known to me  and  that intrigued me before I could know what was it .. second the flowing of energy for me is a sort   of swelling  sensation of my hands  when I think to do it  , but as I am  quite psycosomatic it could be just an impression ,  I am curious to know what teh others feel  even if I know it is very subjective  not  a general rule > Two years ago I went to an aura/chakra workshop. The lady that led the class > told us to make pairs and start feeling each orthers aura's with our hands > like it was nothing special. I complained to her: "I don't know how to do > that, I'm not even shure I have one myself"  She replied: "Imagine you have > an aura and that you already know how to do it and then just do it! I did > just that and Wow! Electrical forcefields around people!  I would be deligted to experience that ! >   > > Isn't channeling Reiki feasible in the same way. Like I just imagine I got > al the attunements already and know how to do Reiki and wham I feel energy > flowing......... (and I do)  I think that attunements are important  just to make your  ego feels that has been *attuned" but not absolutely   necessary  though  what follows was an interesting thread but where did it start?  Namaste  Theo >   > > Imagining things goes really easy if I first imagine myself as a 7-year old > child. Feel my energy jumping up immediately! > Might be imagining this though  :o) possible >   > > Steven Buck, CMT schreef in berichtnieuws > wM7Y9.482$%45.28273724@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com... > > Shortly after my Masters attunement I began to attune others.  In the past > I > > had always observed how the energy itself worked, and did the same with > the > > attunement energies.  Beginning Reiki, I did things the way I was told.... > > > > During the Level 1 Attunement process I noticed that some students drew > more > > "Attunement" Reiki than others... for some it was their first "awakening" > > and they realized they could now channel reiki; others receiving the first > > attunement lit up like it was long over-due and radiated at the distance > and > > even master level.  I knew that some could immediately channel distance, > and > > even effectively conduct attunements but my Reiki Training said it was not > > so. > > > > After a few attunements (followed by visions during zazen meditations and > > dreams with Usui that contradicted the Reiki classes) I began to tell > > students that a Reiki Master is a Reiki Channel, and as a Reiki Channel > have > > no real control over the energy and did not believe I had the right to > > regulate how much healing energy they received, nor did I believe anyone > > really could regulate it.  With respect to attunements, they would draw > the > > level of attunement energy appropriate for their needs, and emphasis was > > placed with the need to be honest with themselves about where it was with > > them and their abilities.  Some would be able to only channel directly > with > > hands-on, and others would be able to perform it at a distance.  I > suggested > > they use the Levels only as a personal reference chart, and put no real > > credence into them.  Just practice, and the energy will flow.  As they > > practice more, the energy would increase and so to their own healing and > > ability to channel greater amounts. > > > > One frequently asked question was "This is my very first attunement - How > > will I know if I can channel at a distance?"  The answer was simple: "try > > it."  Hold your hands up in front of you, remember the Reiki energies from > > the attunement, and invite them to flow to the person for whom it is > > intended.  If you feel the flow and are not touching anything, then the > > distance works.  If not, that's okay just do it a different way - use a > > surrogate for hands-on.  An example of a surrogate could be a pillow. > Light > > a candle, sit back in the recliner, lay the pillow in your lap and imagine > > the pillow as the person... then begin the process just as if it was a > > direct hands-on. > > > > -- > > Steven Buck, CMT > > > > "suzee" wrote in message > > news:3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com... > > > "Steven Buck, CMT" wrote: > > > > > > > > If I remember correctly, Usui did not have Levels, just practice. > > > > > > > > I see pro's and cons to the levels but don't have the time to write > > about it > > > > just yet. > > > > > > > > ShadowWolf has something called a Singular Attunement, right? > > > > > > Yes, and it makes some sense to me. I can't really see any reason for > > > levels except maybe to accustom people to energy work if they're not > > > used to it. I was, so having all the attunements in one evening > > > (separate, not singular) was fine for me. When I do attunements, it's a > > > singular one with the intention that it go to the receiver as much as > > > they're able to handle, whenever they're able to handle it. Most of the > > > people I've attuned have already had their level one or two, so they've > > > got some experience with it already. > > > > > > namaste, sue > > > > ###### Reply-To: "Steven Buck, CMT" From: "Steven Buck, CMT" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 37 Organization: http://www.metareiki.org X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.123.206.136 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr14.news.prodigy.com 1045376843 ST000 66.123.206.136 (Sun, 16 Feb 2003 01:27:23 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 01:27:23 EST X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCA[S@QBRLYHZOHOFXBWR\HPCTL@XT^OBPLAH[\RYIBK^RAQFW[ML\THRCKV^GGZKJMGV^^_JSCFFUA_QXFGVSCYRPILH]TRVKC^LSN@DX_HCAFX__@J\DAJBVMY\ZWZCZLPA^MVH_P@\\EOMW\YSXHG__IJQY_@M[A[[AXQ_XDSTAR]\PG]NVAQUVM Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 06:27:23 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr14.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!9eb22389!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3076 "jan" wrote in message news:b2ju4n$fao$1@reader08.wxs.nl... > I can easily imagine sending energy to someone without touching anything. I > can feel it flow too. I was never attuned to Reiki at all. Is this > attunement thing not mostly between the ears? That you need the ritual to be > able to believe you can channel this energy? Hi Jan. I think that's up to considerable debate... for some it's natural, for others it's not. Some do not need the attunement process to channel unlimited universal healing energy, others do. For reasons unbeknownst to me, that seems to be the way it is right now. I believe, and stand to be corrected by others, that what makes Reiki "Reiki" is it being based on the teachings (mythological and otherwise) and concepts of Mikao Usui, a Japanese fellow from the 19th Century. Without those teachings, it might only be considered "reiki" with a small "r." Based on your post, I'd call what you do "reiki," with a small "r" because there is no apparent belief or practice in the ideas set forth by Mikao Usui. In comparison, what others do, following the philosophy and concepts of Mikao Usui could be called "Reiki" with a big "R." It is a Japanese word that can be translated to "universal life energy," and it is also the title of a specific healing modality called "R"eiki. The only real difference is what you experience doesn't have the religious aspect wrapped around it. Universal Life Energy? Yes. Healing Energy? Yes. Reiki? No. "reiki," Yes. Valid? Absolutely 100%. :-) -- Steven Buck, CMT - San Francisco, CA ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 07:44 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1045381452 49094520 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3071 (Steven Buck, CMT) wrote: > Hi Jan. I think that's up to considerable debate... for some it's > natural, for others it's not. Some do not need the attunement > process to channel unlimited universal healing energy, others do. > For reasons unbeknownst to me, that seems to be the way it is right > now. Well that's the way it was for me ... a down-to-earth logical skeptic who decided to give it a go and was blown away ... Still a down-to-earth logical skeptic, but on another plane ... ;) Stuart ###### Message-ID: <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:16:06 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,it,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.94.165 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.94.165 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045386954 62.203.94.165 (16 Feb 2003 10:15:54 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 39 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3067   "Steven Buck, CMT" wrote: > The only real difference is what you experience doesn't have the religious > aspect wrapped around it. Universal Life Energy? Yes.  Healing Energy? Yes. > Reiki? No.  "reiki," Yes.  Valid? Absolutely 100%.   Hi Steve what do you mean  by *doesn't have the religious aspect wrapped around it"  should I understand that ony if one  has  a  Religious Belief ( in what Christ Buddha Allah  ?)  can do * R*eiki  and  if one  believe in Isis   Cadombé  Pan and others  you do *r*eiki  Usui was probably   a japanese budhhist( come say christian also) so  let's say also probably   animist  as  japanese and influenced  by Shintoism the biggest actual Japanese religion  and as most of orientals are .. So he would be in this case  be using   more r  than R  I tell you straight what I think .., it does not means that it is the truth of course ..:-) Does not matter what you  believe in .. the  energy is the same ... believe in what you do and in Reiki  is the  key to access  to  it .. u   do not need to believe in  Jahve or whatever label you want  stick to it   to  open the door in fact  true  "Faith" sets in when  all others "faiths" have been wiped off  my few bucks of worth! :-)  Namaste  Theo >   > > :-) > > -- > Steven Buck, CMT >  - San Francisco, CA ###### From: peterz@magma.ca (Peterz) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: 16 Feb 2003 07:58:05 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 28 Message-ID: <4ef40597.0302160758.4303ef3f@posting.google.com> References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.26.170.8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1045411085 30000 127.0.0.1 (16 Feb 2003 15:58:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Feb 2003 15:58:05 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-08!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3073 Jan As part of my master's training, I had to find a student to attune to level1. I picked my daughter (13) because she already know how to do it (brought in a ringer!). She had previously studied Ki development along with me in aikido for a couple of years. I knew that she could do reiki (small r) because if I felt unwell, she would put her hands on me and send healing. And it worked just fine. The attunement and rest of the day's teaching did give her a sense of accomplishment as well as taught her the other things that comprise a Level1 Reiki (where hands go, scan...). Did her ability to send the healing energy increase? I dunno - I lack a way to measure. She says that it DID improve her ability to send the healing energy, so I believe her. (I just asked her...) So there you have it. Someone who had a "natural" (pre-Reiki training) ability said that this ability was improved/increased by the attunement. How much was it the process, the increased confidence, or Kathleen saying what she thought I might want to hear? (The last is highly unlikely, as anyone with a 13-year-old daughter will attest ;^)) No way to know. Anyway, something to add to your thinking. Peter "Use the Schwartz, LoneStar." - Yoghurt ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:09 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 38 Message-ID: References: <4ef40597.0302160758.4303ef3f@posting.google.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1045411741 49343871 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3072 Not surprising, Peter ... I do believe that the kids of today have a natural ability and prescience far above that of us old codgers ... ;) Stuart (Peterz) wrote: > Jan > > As part of my master's training, I had to find a student to attune to > level1. I picked my daughter (13) because she already know how to do > it (brought in a ringer!). She had previously studied Ki development > along with me in aikido for a couple of years. I knew that she could > do reiki (small r) because if I felt unwell, she would put her hands > on me and send healing. And it worked just fine. > > The attunement and rest of the day's teaching did give her a sense of > accomplishment as well as taught her the other things that comprise a > Level1 Reiki (where hands go, scan...). Did her ability to send the > healing energy increase? I dunno - I lack a way to measure. She says > that it DID improve her ability to send the healing energy, so I > believe her. (I just asked her...) > > So there you have it. Someone who had a "natural" (pre-Reiki training) > ability said that this ability was improved/increased by the > attunement. How much was it the process, the increased confidence, or > Kathleen saying what she thought I might want to hear? (The last is > highly unlikely, as anyone with a 13-year-old daughter will attest > ;^)) No way to know. > > Anyway, something to add to your thinking. > > Peter > > "Use the Schwartz, LoneStar." - Yoghurt > ###### From: xwoodvine@netidea.com (Joel) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:28:16 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 44 Message-ID: <3e4fba31.59965126@news.netidea.com> References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <4ef40597.0302160758.4303ef3f@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-777.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newshub.northeast.verio.net!verio!nntp.abs.net!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3068 On 16 Feb 2003 07:58:05 -0800, peterz@magma.ca (Peterz) wrote: > >The attunement and rest of the day's teaching did give her a sense of >accomplishment as well as taught her the other things that comprise a >Level1 Reiki (where hands go, scan...). Did her ability to send the >healing energy increase? I dunno - I lack a way to measure. She says >that it DID improve her ability to send the healing energy, so I >believe her. (I just asked her...) > Diane Stein (author of numerous books) to be a great authority, but I'll mention that she reports she found the same thing. She was already practicing hands-on healing, with hand heating and all, and when she got Reiki attunement she felt it up-levelled the whole thing. In his book, Hiroshi Doi reported how he had studied a dozen or 15 different self-development and healing modalities (including two or three types of qi gong), and when he got Reiki attunement, he felt a big difference. I don't have the answers, but I always love these discussions. We never "get to the bottom of all this," but somehow I feel I learn through it! Now some people (such as our friends here Chamundi, Steven Buck, Peggy Jentoft, Julia Hawkes-Moore) had healing abilities of a notable sort since youth. I leave it to them to speak for themselves, but there must be some reason why they are here with us among the Reiki attuned. Joel >So there you have it. Someone who had a "natural" (pre-Reiki training) >ability said that this ability was improved/increased by the >attunement. How much was it the process, the increased confidence, or >Kathleen saying what she thought I might want to hear? (The last is >highly unlikely, as anyone with a 13-year-old daughter will attest >;^)) No way to know. > >Anyway, something to add to your thinking. > >Peter > >"Use the Schwartz, LoneStar." - Yoghurt ###### From: "Vanessa" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 39 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:15:41 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.209.110.155 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1045448170 216.209.110.155 (Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:16:10 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:16:10 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!News.Dal.Ca!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3086 "Theo" wrote in message news:3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net... > > Hi Steve > what do you mean by *doesn't have the religious aspect wrapped around it" > should I understand that ony if one has a Religious Belief ( in what Christ > Buddha Allah ?) can do > * R*eiki and if one believe in Isis Cadombé Pan and others you do *r*eiki No Theo, and Steve can correct me if I'm wrong, but as Religion seems to be based around the teachings of Christ or a higher being, Usui (analogy-wise), is the same idea. If you go back and read the part of his reply --"Reiki" is it being based on the teachings (mythological and otherwise) and concepts of Mikao Usui, a Japanese fellow from the 19th Century. Without those teachings, it might only be considered "reiki" with a small "r."-- I think the point is that if you are basing it on the teachings or ideas or diety or being then it is a religion otherwise you are just being spiritual or loving or whatever and it then becomes the name of that thing you do... If I were to base my whole belief system around healing, not being able to do healing if it weren't to a specific song for example (and a sloppy one hehe) , then it would be a religion in a sense or the sense of the word... hope that helps... Blessed Be, Vanessa --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002 ###### Message-ID: <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:19:07 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr,it MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------73BD25E137C16EDC67886623" NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.38.94 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.38.94 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045473371 62.203.38.94 (17 Feb 2003 10:16:11 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 94 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3077 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------73BD25E137C16EDC67886623 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Vanessa wrote: > "Theo" wrote in message > news:3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net... > > > > Hi Steve > > what do you mean by *doesn't have the religious aspect wrapped around it" > > should I understand that ony if one has a Religious Belief ( in what > Christ > > Buddha Allah ?) can do > > * R*eiki and if one believe in Isis Cadombé Pan and others you do *r*eiki > > No Theo, and Steve can correct me if I'm wrong, but as Religion seems to be > based around the teachings of Christ or a higher being, Usui (analogy-wise), > is the same idea. If you go back and read the part of his reply > > --"Reiki" is it being based on the teachings (mythological and otherwise) > and > concepts of Mikao Usui, a Japanese fellow from the 19th Century. Without > those teachings, it might only be considered "reiki" with a small "r."-- Why what makes difference ? For instance a Wiccan than must believe also in Christ to do Reiki? is that what you mean ? the two things Wiccan and Christ do not match I think there is something i do not understand: > > > I think the point is that if you are basing it on the teachings or ideas or > diety or being then it is a religion otherwise you are just being spiritual > or loving or whatever and it then becomes the name of that thing you do... > If I were to base my whole belief system around healing, not being able to > do healing if it weren't to a specific song for example (and a sloppy one > hehe) , then it would be a religion in a > sense or the sense of the word... Religion is phylosophy Magic like alchemist is also a phylosophy when you live act and deeply think and believe in something I think you can call it a religion an agnostic has his agnosticism as religion healing is not the only thing that is important in reiki is the whole system of conception of energy and acting with yourself and with the others.." Just for today"... has alot of meaning behind these simple sentences . the risult of healing with energy is just the point of the iceberg not the main part of it But I think that probably we are playing with words and again also we are decorticating things beyond the necessity .. see how original Reiki has been split in many different branches soon after it started developing as everyone wanted to add his fingerprint to it ! Namaste Theo > > > hope that helps... > Blessed Be, > Vanessa > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002 --------------73BD25E137C16EDC67886623 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=iso-8859-2; name="byjoke.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Theo Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="byjoke.vcf" begin:vcard n:S.N.C.;Mauro Lattes & José Vargas tel;fax:+41 022 310 91 02 tel;work:+41 022 310 91 01 x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:byjoke@ch.inter.net fn:SPRINTERS end:vcard --------------73BD25E137C16EDC67886623-- ###### From: "Felicity" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 19 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:51:14 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 144.138.100.93 X-Trace: newsfeeds.bigpond.com 1045485538 144.138.100.93 (Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:38:58 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:38:58 EST Organization: Telstra BigPond Internet Services (http://www.bigpond.com) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!xmission!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!snewsf0.syd.ops.aspac.uu.net!news1.optus.net.au!optus!ken-transit.news.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!newsfeeds.bigpond.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3089 Stuart wrote: > > > Hi Jan. I think that's up to considerable debate... for some it's > > natural, for others it's not. Some do not need the attunement > > process to channel unlimited universal healing energy, others do. > > For reasons unbeknownst to me, that seems to be the way it is right > > now. > > Well that's the way it was for me ... a down-to-earth logical skeptic > who decided to give it a go and was blown away ... > > Still a down-to-earth logical skeptic, but on another plane ... ;) > > Stuart > That is what makes us all unique... Wouldn't you say? ###### Message-ID: <3E50EAAD.E95FC710@bluewin.ch> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:59:10 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr,it MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B0B58FF8904C26B1D52ADF91" NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.38.94 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.38.94 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045490173 62.203.38.94 (17 Feb 2003 14:56:13 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 73 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3078 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B0B58FF8904C26B1D52ADF91 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit HI Vanessa -- amusing how things unfold I decided to get around and run into this page.. read the very end of it what says about Reiki no R or r just ..... energy awareness http://www.cix.co.uk/~stuv/Luca1.htm namaste theo Vanessa wrote: > "Theo" wrote in message > news:3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net... > > > > Hi Steve > > what do you mean by *doesn't have the religious aspect wrapped around it" > > should I understand that ony if one has a Religious Belief ( in what > Christ > > Buddha Allah ?) can do > > * R*eiki and if one believe in Isis Cadombé Pan and others you do *r*eiki > > No Theo, and Steve can correct me if I'm wrong, but as Religion seems to be > based around the teachings of Christ or a higher being, Usui (analogy-wise), > is the same idea. If you go back and read the part of his reply > > --"Reiki" is it being based on the teachings (mythological and otherwise) > and > concepts of Mikao Usui, a Japanese fellow from the 19th Century. Without > those teachings, it might only be considered "reiki" with a small "r."-- > > I think the point is that if you are basing it on the teachings or ideas or > diety or being then it is a religion otherwise you are just being spiritual > or loving or whatever and it then becomes the name of that thing you do... > If I were to base my whole belief system around healing, not being able to > do healing if it weren't to a specific song for example (and a sloppy one > hehe) , then it would be a religion in a > sense or the sense of the word... > > hope that helps... > Blessed Be, > Vanessa > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002 --------------B0B58FF8904C26B1D52ADF91 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=iso-8859-2; name="byjoke.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Theo Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="byjoke.vcf" begin:vcard n:S.N.C.;Mauro Lattes & José Vargas tel;fax:+41 022 310 91 02 tel;work:+41 022 310 91 01 x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:byjoke@ch.inter.net fn:SPRINTERS end:vcard --------------B0B58FF8904C26B1D52ADF91-- ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:27 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <3E50EAAD.E95FC710@bluewin.ch> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1045492075 49887840 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed.news.nacamar.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3090 (Theo) wrote: I could have told you that ... that's my website ... ;) Stuart > HI Vanessa -- amusing how things unfold > I decided to get around and run into this page.. > read the very end of it what says about Reiki > > no R or r just ..... energy awareness > http://www.cix.co.uk/~stuv/Luca1.htm ###### Message-ID: <3E50F5F8.AE77FE17@bluewin.ch> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:47:20 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr,it MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3E50EAAD.E95FC710@bluewin.ch> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------52521D79D322D5940EE1C293" NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.38.94 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.38.94 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045493064 62.203.38.94 (17 Feb 2003 15:44:24 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 52 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3079 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------52521D79D322D5940EE1C293 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know Vernon.. I went there because a little voice told me to look after you as I had something to learn(from you) :-) In fact I was inrigued by your enthusiastic talks about reiki so I tried to see if I could know more about you in the previous threads and run in your site and so on .. I did not say it was your site as I wanted to be discreet .. very interesting indeed Namaste Theo Stuart Vernon wrote: > (Theo) wrote: > > I could have told you that ... that's my website ... ;) > > Stuart > > > HI Vanessa -- amusing how things unfold > > I decided to get around and run into this page.. > > read the very end of it what says about Reiki > > > > no R or r just ..... energy awareness > > http://www.cix.co.uk/~stuv/Luca1.htm --------------52521D79D322D5940EE1C293 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=iso-8859-2; name="byjoke.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Theo Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="byjoke.vcf" begin:vcard n:S.N.C.;Mauro Lattes & José Vargas tel;fax:+41 022 310 91 02 tel;work:+41 022 310 91 01 x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:byjoke@ch.inter.net fn:SPRINTERS end:vcard --------------52521D79D322D5940EE1C293-- ###### Message-ID: <3E512C46.538D49FD@ch.inter.net.nospam> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:39:02 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,it,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.72.129 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.72.129 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045507125 62.202.72.129 (17 Feb 2003 19:38:45 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 90 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3082   Vanessa wrote: > >  Why  what makes difference ? > >  For instance a  Wiccan than   must believe also in Christ to  do Reiki? > is that > > what you mean ? > >  the two things Wiccan and Christ do not match > >  I think there is something i do not understand: > > Not really, if you base what you are doing on the teachings of someone or > something, then it become "R"eiki, if say you just like to heal and aren't > really basing your abilities on anything other than your own abilities and > observations perse, then it is "r"eiki... Why  what do you mean  that  am I a scam or what   ?? LOL!  Usui had its enlightment  from within..  why would'nt I ?  I am  human like him   and he died like I'll die !   > err that is, I think the point > that Steve was getting at.  Reading what others have to say or trying things > because someone has suggested is 'r' and there is nothing wrong, doing only > cause it is mandated by higher organizations, deities, or authorities is > more of "R". Deities  and higher  organizations do not exist  unless you believe into them  and give them  existence .. authorities  were  born  from womb like me and will  return to ashes like me..  I do not see any difference why  they would  be * more* than I some will have more experience .. but all of them started from  point 0! >  All beliefs are for that person to decide and some ppl do > prefer to practise with ppl who believe what they do.  Sometimes this is > good.  But like the song the Gambler  "You got to know when to hold em, Know > when to fold, Know when to walk away and Know when to run.  There is nothing > wrong with either and I don't think that is what Steve is saying but rather, > that many tend to follow only what is written in books, mandated by > organizations etc, even if it doesn't mesh with them, and force a belief > rather than flow with thier own.    Well we knew nothing and than we started  learning .. and than we decide what to do that is suitable for us  some use  hands some use creative  visualization some use prayers  or whatever  if someone  follow  a book will be  a carbon copy of the  book and not Himself !  What makes the difference between a  good doctor and an excellent doctor ?  one   knows how to face challenges and   evolve  the others follows stricly  the books  where  they  learned    I do not cumulate  Reiki  *specializations*  there are so many ..... as if more lebels I can stick on my   skin more powerful or credible  I  get  .. maybe some people needs that mainly  to rise  their self  confidence  but we are getting off topic I guess . The site I sent you is very interesting  you can see another one changing the  number  of it  from 1 into 2 same site form Stuart Vernon   I partake  his point of view ,the energy is  to be  conscious to be conscious !   there is just one energy .. but as usual we try to complicate everything ... we are just humans afterall! Said that  there is something that itches me..  Reiki can cure  energy disorders  like    headches or  muscular twist or low eneryg levels,  but cannot cure a flue , virus,  bacteria infection or does it ? Curing the  above 3  means that should  be  killing the virues  hence *life*  as the energy rise the  immunitary defences but also rise the   vital energy  of the virus ..  so.  could  Reik become  a *Killer*  energy  to cure  ? any suggestion  ?    Namaste  Theo   >   > > Blessed Be, > Vanessa > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002 ###### Message-ID: <3E512CF9.23AFB132@ch.inter.net.nospam> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:42:01 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,it,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50EAAD.E95FC710@bluewin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.72.129 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.72.129 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045507303 62.202.72.129 (17 Feb 2003 19:41:43 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 30 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3081 Am I confused :-)?  I think that energy awareness is R  and no others rating of it exist  :-)  I do not think that can exist second* rated* energy ..   you see what I mean ?  namaste  Theo   Vanessa wrote: > Hi Theo > > I was just trying to explain what Steve was trying to say as I took it to > mean anyways :)  that probably would have been a better way to explain what > Steve was saying....  One with "R" is basing on organizations or deities > (that idea anyway) and the "r" is more based on energy awareness and seeing > the dieties as people in the news  :)   hehe  hope I didn't confuse you more > > Blessed Be, > Vanessa > > >  no R or r  just   .....  energy awareness > > http://www.cix.co.uk/~stuv/Luca1.htm > > namaste > >  theo > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002 ###### Message-ID: <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:45:45 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,it,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.72.129 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.72.129 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045507528 62.202.72.129 (17 Feb 2003 19:45:28 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 95 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3084   Vanessa wrote: > >  Why  what makes difference ? > >  For instance a  Wiccan than   must believe also in Christ to  do Reiki? > is that > > what you mean ? > >  the two things Wiccan and Christ do not match > >  I think there is something i do not understand: > > Not really, if you base what you are doing on the teachings of someone or > something, then it become "R"eiki, if say you just like to heal and aren't > really basing your abilities on anything other than your own abilities and > observations perse, then it is "r"eiki... Why  what do you mean  that  am I a scam or what   ?? LOL!  Usui had its enlightment  from within..  why would'nt I ?  I am  human like him   and he died like I'll die !   > err that is, I think the point > that Steve was getting at.  Reading what others have to say or trying things > because someone has suggested is 'r' and there is nothing wrong, doing only > cause it is mandated by higher organizations, deities, or authorities is > more of "R". Deities  and higher  organizations do not exist  unless you believe into them and give them  existence .. authorities  were  born  from womb like me and will  return to ashes like me..  I do not see any difference why  they would  be * more* than I some will have more experience .. but all of them started from  point 0! >  All beliefs are for that person to decide and some ppl do > prefer to practise with ppl who believe what they do.  Sometimes this is > good.  But like the song the Gambler  "You got to know when to hold em, Know > when to fold, Know when to walk away and Know when to run.  There is nothing > wrong with either and I don't think that is what Steve is saying but rather, > that many tend to follow only what is written in books, mandated by > organizations etc, even if it doesn't mesh with them, and force a belief > rather than flow with thier own.    Well we knew nothing and than we started  learning .. and than we decide what to do that is suitable for us  some use  hands some use creative  visualization some use prayers  or whatever  if someone  follow  a book will be  a carbon copy of the  book and not Himself !  What makes the difference between a  good doctor and an excellent doctor ?  one   knows how to face challenges and   evolve  the others follows stricly the books  where  they  learned    I do not cumulate  Reiki  *specializations*  there are so many ..... as if more lebels I can stick on my   skin more powerful or credible  I  get  .. maybe some people needs that mainly  to rise  their self  confidence  but we are getting off topic I guess . The site I sent you is very interesting  you can see another one changing the number  of it  from 1 into 2 same site form Stuart Vernon   I partake  his point of view ,the energy is  to be  conscious to be conscious !   there is just one energy .. but as usual we try to complicate everything ... we are just humans afterall! Said that  there is something that itches me..  Reiki can cure  energy disorders  like    headches or  muscular twist or low eneryg levels,  but cannot cure a flue , virus,  bacteria infection or does it ? Curing the  above 3  means that should  be  killing the virues  hence *life*  as the energy rise the  immunitary defences but also rise the   vital energy  of the virus ..  so.  could  Reik become  a *Killer*  energy  to cure  ? any suggestion  ?    Namaste  Theo   > > > Blessed Be, > Vanessa > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002 ###### From: "Vanessa" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 33 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:49:24 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.226.189.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1045504207 209.226.189.52 (Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:50:07 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:50:07 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3088 > Why what makes difference ? > For instance a Wiccan than must believe also in Christ to do Reiki? is that > what you mean ? > the two things Wiccan and Christ do not match > I think there is something i do not understand: Not really, if you base what you are doing on the teachings of someone or something, then it become "R"eiki, if say you just like to heal and aren't really basing your abilities on anything other than your own abilities and observations perse, then it is "r"eiki... err that is, I think the point that Steve was getting at. Reading what others have to say or trying things because someone has suggested is 'r' and there is nothing wrong, doing only cause it is mandated by higher organizations, deities, or authorities is more of "R". All beliefs are for that person to decide and some ppl do prefer to practise with ppl who believe what they do. Sometimes this is good. But like the song the Gambler "You got to know when to hold em, Know when to fold, Know when to walk away and Know when to run. There is nothing wrong with either and I don't think that is what Steve is saying but rather, that many tend to follow only what is written in books, mandated by organizations etc, even if it doesn't mesh with them, and force a belief rather than flow with thier own. Blessed Be, Vanessa --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002 ###### From: "Vanessa" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50EAAD.E95FC710@bluewin.ch> Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4920.2300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:56:03 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.226.189.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1045504609 209.226.189.52 (Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:56:49 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:56:49 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3087 Hi Theo I was just trying to explain what Steve was trying to say as I took it to mean anyways :) that probably would have been a better way to explain what Steve was saying.... One with "R" is basing on organizations or deities (that idea anyway) and the "r" is more based on energy awareness and seeing the dieties as people in the news :) hehe hope I didn't confuse you more Blessed Be, Vanessa > no R or r just ..... energy awareness > http://www.cix.co.uk/~stuv/Luca1.htm > namaste > theo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release Date: 30/12/2002 ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:59 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 5 Message-ID: References: <3E50F5F8.AE77FE17@bluewin.ch> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1045508391 49989088 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3091 You do me an undeserved honour, Theo ... ;) Stuart ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:56 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <0_a4a.33$vo3.11934762@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1045515404 50338536 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3101 Steven Buck, CMT) wrote: > Xena is so cute! Gorgeous .. even more so than Lucy Lawless ... ;) Spent first five months in kennels after being abandoned (supermart bag by the freeway) by her breeder as she wasn't "perfect" ... Maxillary depression giving rise to overshot lower jaw and Marty Feldman eyes ... She's perfect ... :) Stuart ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:09 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1045519746 50501119 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3102 (Felicity) wrote: > > Still a down-to-earth logical skeptic, but on another plane ... ;) > That is what makes us all unique... Wouldn't you say? Yeah ... "Chacun a son gout" as the French would say ... :) Stuart ###### Message-ID: <3E516506.403FA6A0@ch.inter.net.nospam> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:41:10 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,it,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.72.129 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.72.129 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045521652 62.202.72.129 (17 Feb 2003 23:40:52 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 28 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3095   Stuart Vernon wrote: > (Felicity) wrote: > > ****> > Still a down-to-earth logical skeptic, but on another plane ... > ;)**** > > > That is what makes us all unique... Wouldn't you say? > > Yeah ... "Chacun a son gout" as the French would say ... :) > > Stuart  Hi Stuart   it was you who said  the first  line  about yourself right ?  it was that line that intrigued me.. could you develope it more  talking about yourself what you understated  by that  sentence?  even privately if you prefer.. just mail   I think there is something that   has to flow from you to me..  just a feeling Namsate  Theo ###### Message-ID: <3E51652E.B096E4F9@ch.inter.net.nospam> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:41:50 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,it,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3E50F5F8.AE77FE17@bluewin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.72.129 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.72.129 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045521692 62.202.72.129 (17 Feb 2003 23:41:32 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 9 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3098 why ?  I think you deserve it ..just a feeling !  Theo Stuart Vernon wrote: > You do me an undeserved honour, Theo ... ;) > > Stuart ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:31 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 41 Message-ID: References: <3E516506.403FA6A0@ch.inter.net.nospam> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1045524666 49577331 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3100 (Theo) wrote: > Stuart Vernon wrote: > > > (Felicity) wrote: > > > > ****> > Still a down-to-earth logical skeptic, but on another plane > > > > ... > > ;)**** Buggered up the highlighting, no? ... :) [Felicity] > > > That is what makes us all unique... Wouldn't you say? > > > > Yeah ... "Chacun a son gout" as the French would say ... :) >   it was you who said  the first  line  about yourself right ? Yes. >  it was that line that intrigued me.. could you develope it more  > talking about yourself what you understated  by that  sentence? What do you want to know? (as if anyone /could/ "know"?) >  even privately if you prefer.. just mail  >  I think there is something that   has to flow from you to me.. >  just a feeling I am no guru ... I enjoy your broken chocolate posts, and enjoy picking out the bits of wisdom and experience of your own ... :) > Namsate Get a spell-checker ... :) >  Theo Stuart ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 31 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 02:24:51 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.247.137.21 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1045535091 165.247.137.21 (Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:24:51 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:24:51 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!151.164.30.35!cyclone.swbell.net!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3121 On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:45:45 +0100, Theo wrote: >Said that  there is something that itches me.. > Reiki can cure  energy disorders  like    headches or  muscular twist or low >eneryg levels, > but cannot cure a flue , virus,  bacteria infection or does it ? >Curing the  above 3  means that should  be  killing the virues  hence *life*  as > >the energy rise the  immunitary >defences but also rise the   vital energy  of the virus ..  so.  could  Reik >become  a *Killer*  energy  to cure  ? any suggestion  ? What makes you so certain that the energy is also helping the virus at the same time it is helping the person? Perhaps the human body is a sort of filter or channel selector, pulling down just the right "frequencies" of energy to stimulate our kind of tissues, but the wrong frequencies to stimulate growth of viruses or bacteria? So maybe without being a "killer" energy, it just happens to be selective about what it stimulates? Of course, I can't back any of that up with research, but thought that it just beared considering alternate possibilities. namaste, Garry ###### Message-ID: <3E51DAC1.734A03E1@ch.inter.net.nospam> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:03:30 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,it,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3E516506.403FA6A0@ch.inter.net.nospam> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.36.90 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.36.90 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045551791 213.3.36.90 (18 Feb 2003 08:03:11 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 67 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3120   Stuart Vernon wrote: > (Theo) wrote: > > > Stuart Vernon wrote: > > > > > (Felicity) wrote: > > > > > > ****> > Still a down-to-earth logical skeptic, but on another plane > > > > > ... > > > ;)**** > > Buggered up the highlighting, no? ... :) >    Hi  Wow what do you mean ? it an expression    I cannot understand :-) >   > [Felicity] > > > > That is what makes us all unique... Wouldn't you say? > > > > > > Yeah ... "Chacun a son gout" as the French would say ... :) > > >   it was you who said  the first  line  about yourself right ? > > Yes. > > >  it was that line that intrigued me.. could you develope it more > > talking about yourself what you understated  by that  sentence? > > What do you want to know? (as if anyone /could/ "know"?) what do you feel you should say ?  let's say.. how y a pragmatic person like you was   absorbed and embraced something  *metaphisic es reiki* >   > > >  even privately if you prefer.. just mail  > >  I think there is something that   has to flow from you to me.. > >  just a feeling > > I am no guru ... I enjoy your broken chocolate posts, and enjoy picking > out the bits of wisdom and experience of your own ... :)   Fortunately we are not gurus I am not a guru fans ..  about my brocken chocolate .. well I am swiss :-) it is the country  for that !  Thanks for the bits  of  wisdom  at my age I guess it should  be reasonable to have some :-)   > > Namsate > > Get a spell-checker ... :)   I cross everything  letters and figures an horror sometimes >   > > >  Theo > > Stuart ###### Message-ID: <3E51DCC4.1B2DB618@ch.inter.net.nospam> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:12:04 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,it,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.36.90 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.36.90 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045552306 213.3.36.90 (18 Feb 2003 08:11:46 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 56 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3122 HI Nadie Niemand wrote: > On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:45:45 +0100, Theo > wrote: > > > > >Said that  there is something that itches me.. > > Reiki can cure  energy disorders  like    headches or  muscular twist or low > >eneryg levels, > > but cannot cure a flue , virus,  bacteria infection or does it ? > >Curing the  above 3  means that should  be  killing the virues  hence *life*  as > > > >the energy rise the  immunitary > >defences but also rise the   vital energy  of the virus ..  so.  could  Reik > >become  a *Killer*  energy  to cure  ? any suggestion  ? > > What makes you so certain that the energy is also helping the virus at > the same time it is helping the person? Perhaps the human body is a > sort of filter or channel selector, pulling down just the right > "frequencies" of energy to stimulate our kind of tissues, but the > wrong frequencies to stimulate growth of viruses or bacteria? So maybe > without being a "killer" energy, it just happens to be selective about > what it stimulates?  perhaps... perhaps ...  I want to know more :-)  do not think   Viruses and others as ennemies think as  * guest of the  moment*  so why should Reiki kill them or bother them    the yget teh same amount of energy  as others  cells so tehy should  feel better.. I do not think that Reiki is selective   as we intend  at out advantage  I noticed that  others  Reiki people got  bad illness but due to viruses or others infections and badly needed antibiotics.. this is why I am jumping to this conclusion that was already   germinating in my mind since longtimes..  for instance  personally   I can cure a lot of little things  on myself  but I have  a little follicular infection in a beard hair  on a cheech and  we are having a lot of trouble to get rid of it  Reiki does not work  as on the others     bruises twist     cuts  burns and similars >   > Of course, I can't back any of that up with research, but thought that > it just beared considering alternate possibilities. > > namaste, > > Garry  I understand  Garry this is why I asked  to more experienced people here in the newsgroup  Namaste  Theo >   >   ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:01 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <3E51DAC1.734A03E1@ch.inter.net.nospam> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1045555309 50262104 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3126 (Theo) wrote: > > Buggered up the highlighting, no? ... :) > >  Wow what do you mean ? it an expression    I cannot understand :-) The asterisks ... they're not working ... :) > > What do you want to know? (as if anyone /could/ "know"?) > > what do you feel you should say ? > let's say.. how y a pragmatic person like you was   absorbed and > embraced something  *metaphisic es reiki* I haven't a clue ... just crept up on me I guess ... ;) Stuart ###### Message-ID: <3E51F202.CAC6C287@bluewin.ch> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:42:42 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr,it MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3E51DAC1.734A03E1@ch.inter.net.nospam> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D4771E59FAE93140631B674E" NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.101.241 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.101.241 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045557583 62.203.101.241 (18 Feb 2003 09:39:43 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 51 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3110 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D4771E59FAE93140631B674E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I understand that is hard to talk about something indefinite with a beer in between should be more feasable I guess ! Namaste Theo Stuart Vernon wrote: > (Theo) wrote: > > > > Buggered up the highlighting, no? ... :) > > > > Wow what do you mean ? it an expression I cannot understand :-) > > The asterisks ... they're not working ... :) > > > > What do you want to know? (as if anyone /could/ "know"?) > > > > what do you feel you should say ? > > let's say.. how y a pragmatic person like you was absorbed and > > embraced something *metaphisic es reiki* > > I haven't a clue ... just crept up on me I guess ... ;) > > Stuart --------------D4771E59FAE93140631B674E Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=iso-8859-2; name="byjoke.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Theo Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="byjoke.vcf" begin:vcard n:S.N.C.;Mauro Lattes & José Vargas tel;fax:+41 022 310 91 02 tel;work:+41 022 310 91 01 x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:byjoke@ch.inter.net fn:SPRINTERS end:vcard --------------D4771E59FAE93140631B674E-- ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:19 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <3E51F202.CAC6C287@bluewin.ch> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.49) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1045563555 50010118 80.2.124.49 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust49.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3127 (Theo) wrote: > I understand that is hard to talk about something indefinite > with a beer in between should be more feasable I guess ! These things are best sorted at 4am after the party ... ;) Stuart ###### Message-ID: <3E5211B6.FD5AD025@bluewin.ch> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:57:58 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr,it MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3E51F202.CAC6C287@bluewin.ch> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E9BD29921CCB23912E546776" NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.101.241 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.101.241 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045565699 62.203.101.241 (18 Feb 2003 11:54:59 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 40 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3108 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E9BD29921CCB23912E546776 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit are you having a party today? Theo Stuart Vernon wrote: > (Theo) wrote: > > > I understand that is hard to talk about something indefinite > > with a beer in between should be more feasable I guess ! > > These things are best sorted at 4am after the party ... ;) > > Stuart --------------E9BD29921CCB23912E546776 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=iso-8859-2; name="byjoke.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Theo Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="byjoke.vcf" begin:vcard n:S.N.C.;Mauro Lattes & José Vargas tel;fax:+41 022 310 91 02 tel;work:+41 022 310 91 01 x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:byjoke@ch.inter.net fn:SPRINTERS end:vcard --------------E9BD29921CCB23912E546776-- ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3e523828.393919@news.earthlink.net> References: <3E51F202.CAC6C287@bluewin.ch> <3E5211B6.FD5AD025@bluewin.ch> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 45 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:32:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.247.154.116 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1045575157 165.247.154.116 (Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:32:37 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:32:37 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!c03.atl99!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3115 On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:57:58 +0100, Theo wrote: >are you having a party today? > Theo Theo, I think he means over a beer at 4am after any party, not a specific one. Don't know that I could stay up that late (I'm turning into an old geezer and go to bed with the chickens), but I could definitely have that sort of conversation over a few beers. :-) >Stuart Vernon wrote: > >> (Theo) wrote: >> >> > I understand that is hard to talk about something indefinite >> > with a beer in between should be more feasable I guess ! >> >> These things are best sorted at 4am after the party ... ;) >> >> Stuart > >--------------E9BD29921CCB23912E546776 >Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=iso-8859-2; > name="byjoke.vcf" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Description: Card for Theo >Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="byjoke.vcf" > >begin:vcard >n:S.N.C.;Mauro Lattes & José Vargas >tel;fax:+41 022 310 91 02 >tel;work:+41 022 310 91 01 >x-mozilla-html:FALSE >adr:;;;;;; >version:2.1 >email;internet:byjoke@ch.inter.net >fn:SPRINTERS >end:vcard > >--------------E9BD29921CCB23912E546776-- > ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net> References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> <3E51DCC4.1B2DB618@ch.inter.net.nospam> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 69 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:38:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.247.154.116 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1045575516 165.247.154.116 (Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:38:36 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:38:36 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!151.164.30.35!cyclone.swbell.net!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3117 On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:12:04 +0100, Theo wrote: >HI > >Nadie Niemand wrote: > >> On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:45:45 +0100, Theo >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >Said that  there is something that itches me.. >> > Reiki can cure  energy disorders  like    headches or  muscular twist or low >> >eneryg levels, >> > but cannot cure a flue , virus,  bacteria infection or does it ? >> >Curing the  above 3  means that should  be  killing the virues  hence *life*  as >> > >> >the energy rise the  immunitary >> >defences but also rise the   vital energy  of the virus ..  so.  could  Reik >> >become  a *Killer*  energy  to cure  ? any suggestion  ? >> >> What makes you so certain that the energy is also helping the virus at >> the same time it is helping the person? Perhaps the human body is a >> sort of filter or channel selector, pulling down just the right >> "frequencies" of energy to stimulate our kind of tissues, but the >> wrong frequencies to stimulate growth of viruses or bacteria? So maybe >> without being a "killer" energy, it just happens to be selective about >> what it stimulates? > > perhaps... perhaps ...  I want to know more :-) > do not think   Viruses and others as ennemies think as  * guest of the  moment* > so why should Reiki kill them or bother them    the yget teh same amount of energy  >as others  cells so tehy should  feel better.. I do not think that Reiki is >selective   as we intend  at out advantage > I noticed that  others  Reiki people got  bad illness but due to viruses or others >infections and badly needed antibiotics.. this is why I am jumping to this conclusion >that was already   germinating in my mind since longtimes.. > for instance  personally   I can cure a lot of little things  on myself  but I have  >a little follicular infection in a beard hair  on a cheech and  we are having a lot >of trouble to get rid of it  Reiki does not work  as on the others     bruises >twist     cuts  burns and similars On the other hand, I recently had a bout of the flu. I asked for Reiki here on ahr and I recovered in 4-5 days, whereas usually these things can drag on for 7-10 days. Coincidence? I can't prove anything, it's just anecdotal experience. Just thought I would mention it. Love and Light, Garry >>   >> Of course, I can't back any of that up with research, but thought that >> it just beared considering alternate possibilities. >> >> namaste, >> >> Garry > > I understand  Garry this is why I asked  to more experienced people here in the >newsgroup > Namaste > Theo > >>   >>   > ###### Message-ID: <3E524205.DA5A3875@bluewin.ch> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:24:05 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr,it MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3E51F202.CAC6C287@bluewin.ch> <3E5211B6.FD5AD025@bluewin.ch> <3e523828.393919@news.earthlink.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------FC29D2E477811236F2DD2988" NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.101.241 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.101.241 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045578067 62.203.101.241 (18 Feb 2003 15:21:07 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 93 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3104 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------FC29D2E477811236F2DD2988 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I guessed Stuart he was jocking Nadie Niemand wrote: > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:57:58 +0100, Theo wrote: > > >are you having a party today? > > Theo > > Theo, I think he means over a beer at 4am after any party, not a > specific one. > AM in the morning ? I never pay attention at this AM/ PM stuff but he is in England I guess same european time as I am or maybe.. I mean I got the mail about 10 am here and I had not at 7 am so I figure out... that ... oh my.... > > Don't know that I could stay up that late (I'm turning into an old > geezer and go to bed with the chickens), but I could definitely have > that sort of conversation over a few beers. :-) I do not when is time to go to bet it is due not over midnight at 10:30 pm is the best to collect restoring energies ( yoga says) Namaste Theo > > > >Stuart Vernon wrote: > > > >> (Theo) wrote: > >> > >> > I understand that is hard to talk about something indefinite > >> > with a beer in between should be more feasable I guess ! > >> > >> These things are best sorted at 4am after the party ... ;) > >> > >> Stuart > > > >--------------E9BD29921CCB23912E546776 > >Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=iso-8859-2; > > name="byjoke.vcf" > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Content-Description: Card for Theo > >Content-Disposition: attachment; > > filename="byjoke.vcf" > > > >begin:vcard > >n:S.N.C.;Mauro Lattes & José Vargas > >tel;fax:+41 022 310 91 02 > >tel;work:+41 022 310 91 01 > >x-mozilla-html:FALSE > >adr:;;;;;; > >version:2.1 > >email;internet:byjoke@ch.inter.net > >fn:SPRINTERS > >end:vcard > > > >--------------E9BD29921CCB23912E546776-- > > --------------FC29D2E477811236F2DD2988 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=iso-8859-2; name="byjoke.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Theo Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="byjoke.vcf" begin:vcard n:S.N.C.;Mauro Lattes & José Vargas tel;fax:+41 022 310 91 02 tel;work:+41 022 310 91 01 x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:byjoke@ch.inter.net fn:SPRINTERS end:vcard --------------FC29D2E477811236F2DD2988-- ###### Message-ID: <3E5244E2.84D6BF56@bluewin.ch> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:36:18 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr,it MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> <3E51DCC4.1B2DB618@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------98F2F80775494D42D8B83247" NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.101.241 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.203.101.241 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045578800 62.203.101.241 (18 Feb 2003 15:33:20 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 120 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3109 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------98F2F80775494D42D8B83247 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Garry possible you had a minor one just a little flu .. it did not work with my cold.. but it worked to get out of cought and mucus In fact when you do yoga that is supposed to rise your defences when you get a cold you must not practice as you *spread it around your body" as yoga plays with blood circulation mainly ( hata yoga) .. so I thought that energy could do the same strengten the attacker and attacked at the same time.. I was thinking while on the bus this morning that virûses and other epidemics are like aliens that travel from one planet ( body) to another one.. if when get there find en hostile environment ( strong defences ) they are defeated if find a good ground they settle down and proliferate at the damage of the locals that react and make war ( fever).. very similar as humans do .. when swarm somewhere..LOL! maybe in a chinese- box made universe we are the viruses of something bigger so .. if Reiki kills bacteria should kill us to and viceversa as all are manifestations of life .. this is why probably shamans were using herbs to act on the killed- to- be and at the same used energies to strengthen the victim bye Namaste Theo Nadie Niemand wrote: > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:12:04 +0100, Theo > wrote: > > >HI > > > >Nadie Niemand wrote: > > > >> On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:45:45 +0100, Theo > >> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> >Said that there is something that itches me.. > >> > Reiki can cure energy disorders like headches or muscular twist or low > >> >eneryg levels, > >> > but cannot cure a flue , virus, bacteria infection or does it ? > >> >Curing the above 3 means that should be killing the virues hence *life* as > >> > > >> >the energy rise the immunitary > >> >defences but also rise the vital energy of the virus .. so. could Reik > >> >become a *Killer* energy to cure ? any suggestion ? > >> > >> What makes you so certain that the energy is also helping the virus at > >> the same time it is helping the person? Perhaps the human body is a > >> sort of filter or channel selector, pulling down just the right > >> "frequencies" of energy to stimulate our kind of tissues, but the > >> wrong frequencies to stimulate growth of viruses or bacteria? So maybe > >> without being a "killer" energy, it just happens to be selective about > >> what it stimulates? > > > > perhaps... perhaps ... I want to know more :-) > > do not think Viruses and others as ennemies think as * guest of the moment* > > so why should Reiki kill them or bother them the yget teh same amount of energy > >as others cells so tehy should feel better.. I do not think that Reiki is > >selective as we intend at out advantage > > I noticed that others Reiki people got bad illness but due to viruses or others > >infections and badly needed antibiotics.. this is why I am jumping to this conclusion > >that was already germinating in my mind since longtimes.. > > for instance personally I can cure a lot of little things on myself but I have > >a little follicular infection in a beard hair on a cheech and we are having a lot > >of trouble to get rid of it Reiki does not work as on the others bruises > >twist cuts burns and similars > > On the other hand, I recently had a bout of the flu. I asked for Reiki > here on ahr and I recovered in 4-5 days, whereas usually these things > can drag on for 7-10 days. Coincidence? I can't prove anything, it's > just anecdotal experience. Just thought I would mention it. > > Love and Light, > > Garry > > >> > >> Of course, I can't back any of that up with research, but thought that > >> it just beared considering alternate possibilities. > >> > >> namaste, > >> > >> Garry > > > > I understand Garry this is why I asked to more experienced people here in the > >newsgroup > > Namaste > > Theo > > > >> > >> > > --------------98F2F80775494D42D8B83247 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=iso-8859-2; name="byjoke.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Theo Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="byjoke.vcf" begin:vcard n:S.N.C.;Mauro Lattes & José Vargas tel;fax:+41 022 310 91 02 tel;work:+41 022 310 91 01 x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:byjoke@ch.inter.net fn:SPRINTERS end:vcard --------------98F2F80775494D42D8B83247-- ###### From: "jan" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:57:37 +0100 Organization: Planet Internet Lines: 135 Message-ID: References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> <3E51DCC4.1B2DB618@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net> <3E5244E2.84D6BF56@bluewin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip503cee5c.speed.planet.nl X-Trace: reader08.wxs.nl 1045609282 5478 80.60.238.92 (18 Feb 2003 23:01:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@planet.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Feb 2003 23:01:22 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!luth.se!c03.atl99!news.webusenet.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!lnewspeer00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!news2.euro.net!newsfeed.wxs.nl!textnews.wxs.nl!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3113 I think I heard somewhere: That a virus is not a living organism by itself. It is merely a protein that modifies the way the cells of the host work (making it produce more virus). The body responds by killing the modified cells. If you energize the body, it behaves more like it was intended to do, more bad cells will be slaughtered and the infection will stop sooner. Bacterial infections work totally different btw Theo schreef in berichtnieuws 3E5244E2.84D6BF56@bluewin.ch... > Garry > possible you had a minor one just a little flu .. it did not work with my cold.. but it > worked to get out of cought and mucus > In fact when you do yoga that is supposed to rise your defences when you get a cold > you must not practice as you *spread it around your body" as yoga plays with blood > circulation mainly ( hata yoga) .. so I thought that energy could do the same strengten > the attacker and attacked at the same time.. > I was thinking while on the bus this morning that virûses and other epidemics are > like aliens that travel from one planet ( body) to another one.. > if when get there find en hostile environment ( strong defences ) they are defeated > if find a good ground they settle down and proliferate at the damage of the locals that > react and make war ( fever).. very similar as humans do .. when swarm somewhere..LOL! > maybe in a chinese- box made universe we are the viruses of something bigger so .. if > Reiki kills bacteria should kill us to and viceversa as all are manifestations of life > .. > > this is why probably shamans were using herbs to act on the killed- to- be and at > the same used energies to strengthen the victim > bye Namaste > Theo > > > > Nadie Niemand wrote: > > > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:12:04 +0100, Theo > > wrote: > > > > >HI > > > > > >Nadie Niemand wrote: > > > > > >> On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:45:45 +0100, Theo > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >Said that there is something that itches me.. > > >> > Reiki can cure energy disorders like headches or muscular twist or low > > >> >eneryg levels, > > >> > but cannot cure a flue , virus, bacteria infection or does it ? > > >> >Curing the above 3 means that should be killing the virues hence *life* as > > >> > > > >> >the energy rise the immunitary > > >> >defences but also rise the vital energy of the virus .. so. could Reik > > >> >become a *Killer* energy to cure ? any suggestion ? > > >> > > >> What makes you so certain that the energy is also helping the virus at > > >> the same time it is helping the person? Perhaps the human body is a > > >> sort of filter or channel selector, pulling down just the right > > >> "frequencies" of energy to stimulate our kind of tissues, but the > > >> wrong frequencies to stimulate growth of viruses or bacteria? So maybe > > >> without being a "killer" energy, it just happens to be selective about > > >> what it stimulates? > > > > > > perhaps... perhaps ... I want to know more :-) > > > do not think Viruses and others as ennemies think as * guest of the moment* > > > so why should Reiki kill them or bother them the yget teh same amount of energy > > >as others cells so tehy should feel better.. I do not think that Reiki is > > >selective as we intend at out advantage > > > I noticed that others Reiki people got bad illness but due to viruses or others > > >infections and badly needed antibiotics.. this is why I am jumping to this conclusion > > >that was already germinating in my mind since longtimes.. > > > for instance personally I can cure a lot of little things on myself but I have > > >a little follicular infection in a beard hair on a cheech and we are having a lot > > >of trouble to get rid of it Reiki does not work as on the others bruises > > >twist cuts burns and similars > > > > On the other hand, I recently had a bout of the flu. I asked for Reiki > > here on ahr and I recovered in 4-5 days, whereas usually these things > > can drag on for 7-10 days. Coincidence? I can't prove anything, it's > > just anecdotal experience. Just thought I would mention it. > > > > Love and Light, > > > > Garry > > > > >> > > >> Of course, I can't back any of that up with research, but thought that > > >> it just beared considering alternate possibilities. > > >> > > >> namaste, > > >> > > >> Garry > > > > > > I understand Garry this is why I asked to more experienced people here in the > > >newsgroup > > > Namaste > > > Theo > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > ###### Message-ID: <3E532F93.92FB04F6@ch.inter.net.nospam> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:17:39 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,it,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> <3E51DCC4.1B2DB618@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net> <3E5244E2.84D6BF56@bluewin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.186.155.106 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.186.155.106 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045639059 195.186.155.106 (19 Feb 2003 08:17:39 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 158 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3145 It is not a complex life like our but it is a sort of life otherwise how could he react  to external aggression and  reproduce  it is   alife based on chemistry in a very elemental way but I suppose life though!   jan wrote: > I think I heard somewhere: > That a virus is not a living organism by itself. It is merely a protein that > modifies the way the cells of the host work (making it produce more virus). > The body responds by killing the modified cells.  true but in Aids the Virus  modifies itself and block cells as well so there is a mechanical   response maybe  en embriotic intelligence ..  where can we  define  when is  life or just a chemical reaction as all is so intimately connected ?   >   > If you energize the body, it behaves more like it was intended to do, more > bad cells will be slaughtered and the infection will stop sooner. > > Bacterial infections work totally different btw >    yeah I agree   but te phylosophyical point is * is life or not yet ! we should ask Reiki what thinks about  Namaste  Theo >   > Theo schreef in berichtnieuws > 3E5244E2.84D6BF56@bluewin.ch... > > Garry > >  possible you had a minor one just a   little flu .. it did not work with > my cold.. but it > > worked to get out of cought and mucus > >  In fact  when you do yoga that is supposed to rise your  defences  when > you get  a cold > > you must not practice as you *spread it around your body" as yoga plays > with   blood > > circulation mainly ( hata yoga)  .. so I thought that energy  could do the > same  strengten > > the attacker and attacked at the same time.. > >  I was thinking  while on the bus this morning  that  virûses and other > epidemics are > > like aliens that travel from one planet ( body) to another one.. > >  if when get there find   en hostile environment ( strong defences ) they > are defeated > >  if find a good ground they settle down and  proliferate  at the damage of > the locals that > > react and  make war ( fever)..  very similar as humans do  .. when swarm > somewhere..LOL! > >  maybe in a chinese- box made universe we are the viruses of something > bigger so .. if > > Reiki kills bacteria should  kill us to and viceversa  as all are > manifestations of life > > .. > > > >  this is why probably  shamans were using herbs to act on    the killed- > to- be  and at > > the  same used energies to strengthen the   victim > >  bye Namaste > >  Theo > > > > > > > > Nadie Niemand wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:12:04 +0100, Theo > > > wrote: > > > > > > >HI > > > > > > > >Nadie Niemand wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:45:45 +0100, Theo > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >Said that  there is something that itches me.. > > > >> > Reiki can cure  energy disorders  like    headches or  muscular > twist or low > > > >> >eneryg levels, > > > >> > but cannot cure a flue , virus,  bacteria infection or does it ? > > > >> >Curing the  above 3  means that should  be  killing the virues > hence *life*  as > > > >> > > > > >> >the energy rise the  immunitary > > > >> >defences but also rise the   vital energy  of the virus ..  so. > could  Reik > > > >> >become  a *Killer*  energy  to cure  ? any suggestion  ? > > > >> > > > >> What makes you so certain that the energy is also helping the virus > at > > > >> the same time it is helping the person? Perhaps the human body is a > > > >> sort of filter or channel selector, pulling down just the right > > > >> "frequencies" of energy to stimulate our kind of tissues, but the > > > >> wrong frequencies to stimulate growth of viruses or bacteria? So > maybe > > > >> without being a "killer" energy, it just happens to be selective > about > > > >> what it stimulates? > > > > > > > > perhaps... perhaps ...  I want to know more :-) > > > > do not think   Viruses and others as ennemies think as  * guest of the > moment* > > > > so why should Reiki kill them or bother them    the yget teh same > amount of energy > > > >as others  cells so tehy should  feel better.. I do not think that > Reiki is > > > >selective   as we intend  at out advantage > > > > I noticed that  others  Reiki people got  bad illness but due to > viruses or others > > > >infections and badly needed antibiotics.. this is why I am jumping to > this conclusion > > > >that was already   germinating in my mind since longtimes.. > > > > for instance  personally   I can cure a lot of little things  on > myself  but I have > > > >a little follicular infection in a beard hair  on a cheech and  we are > having a lot > > > >of trouble to get rid of it  Reiki does not work  as on the others > bruises > > > >twist     cuts  burns and similars > > > > > > On the other hand, I recently had a bout of the flu. I asked for Reiki > > > here on ahr and I recovered in 4-5 days, whereas usually these things > > > can drag on for 7-10 days. Coincidence? I can't prove anything, it's > > > just anecdotal experience. Just thought I would mention it. > > > > > > Love and Light, > > > > > > Garry > > > > > > >> > > > >> Of course, I can't back any of that up with research, but thought > that > > > >> it just beared considering alternate possibilities. > > > >> > > > >> namaste, > > > >> > > > >> Garry > > > > > > > > I understand  Garry this is why I asked  to more experienced people > here in the > > > >newsgroup > > > > Namaste > > > > Theo > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > ###### Message-ID: <3E533FA2.2010904@home> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:26:10 +0800 From: garf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> <3E51DCC4.1B2DB618@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net> <3E5244E2.84D6BF56@bluewin.ch> <3e52c7f0.1234235@news.netidea.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 40 NNTP-Posting-Host: i109-134.nv.iinet.net.au X-Trace: news.iinet.net.au 1045643309 22997 203.59.109.134 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.newsfeed.com!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!news.iinet.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3149 Joel, Somtimes I believe we think too hard and too deeply about these things. If we give Reiki to somebody and we believe that this is passed to them 'for the highest good' then whatever the problem, living, dead, animal, vegatable or mineral etc the highest good is the path to which the energy is directed. Martin Joel wrote: > On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:57:37 +0100, "jan" wrote: > Okay. Reiki increases the presence or level of lifeforce (ki, qi, > ch'i, etc). When given to the body, it increases the lifeforce of or > in the body, and we can see how this might increase the body's process > of eliminating cells invaded by viruses. > > Howver, bacteria and fungi are living organisms. So if Reiki is > directed to the body, and hence also to the invading bacteria or fungi > causing an infection, Reiki would have to "choose" the human body in > priority or preference to the bodies of the becteria or fungal > organisms, or it would be a "zero sum game" in which both body and > invading organism each benefitted. In that case, both body and > invader would benefit from increased lifeforce, and the body would > remain in the same old "infected" condition, no? > > I think you'll agree, it's an interesting question. But if people > here *have* noticed improvement, from Reiki treatment, when there is a > fungal or bacterial infection in the body, then this is quite a > provocative fact. > > Blessings, > > Joel ###### From: Chacal Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:48:14 +0000 Organization: changelater Lines: 22 Sender: Ted Message-ID: References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> <3E51DCC4.1B2DB618@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.137.35.99 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 1045738071 18418 62.137.35.99 (20 Feb 2003 10:47:51 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Feb 2003 10:47:51 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 4.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!charted.freeserve.co.uk!ted Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3168 In article <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net>, Nadie Niemand writes >>> >>> What makes you so certain that the energy is also helping the virus at >>> the same time it is helping the person? Perhaps the human body is a >>> sort of filter or channel selector, pulling down just the right >>> "frequencies" of energy to stimulate our kind of tissues, but the >>> wrong frequencies to stimulate growth of viruses or bacteria? So maybe >>> without being a "killer" energy, it just happens to be selective about >>> what it stimulates? >> Hi Gary, I used to think that reiki was selective, now I'm not so sure.. I had shingles this winter (as far as I know this is a virus) and reiki didn't help all that much. Shingles depletes the immune system, so as a consequence I got all sort of infections: ear infection. throat infection, two eye infections, you name it.. For the whole of January I was "frying" myself with reiki every night without any results. In the end I had to take a course of antibiotics to get better. I would have to conclude that antibiotics are DEFINITELY more selective than reiki, lol, so from now on I will choose the latter when needed.. Chacal ###### Message-ID: <3E54B8C1.62754B05@bluewin.ch> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:15:14 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr,it MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> <3E51DCC4.1B2DB618@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3E11592D94FE4F33323EFF4A" NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.186.194.228 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.186.194.228 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045739529 195.186.194.228 (20 Feb 2003 12:12:09 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 73 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3154 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3E11592D94FE4F33323EFF4A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI shingles ? herpes you mean ? if it is herpes there is en excellent remedy that works in the long run Antimonim cruda 30 k it is homeopatic and has to be taken with the homeopatic usual care Anti-biotics means "against- life " and are selected for acting on that special group of viruses and do not act on others there are many different sort of antibiotics.. so have to be selective otherwise might destroy all sort of organisms living iside us and taht are necessary .. this is the reason why eating yoghurts while taking antibiotics helps to repristinate some intestine bacteria that are good for us but are killed by the antibiotics as sensible to its action .. Reiki is not an Antibiotic :-) this is why it is important also to know what a person is suffering of.. to avoid that trying to cure someone we can instead make the person loose precious time and make the danger become irreversible Namaste Theo Chacal wrote: > In article <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net>, Nadie Niemand > writes > >>> > >>> What makes you so certain that the energy is also helping the virus at > >>> the same time it is helping the person? Perhaps the human body is a > >>> sort of filter or channel selector, pulling down just the right > >>> "frequencies" of energy to stimulate our kind of tissues, but the > >>> wrong frequencies to stimulate growth of viruses or bacteria? So maybe > >>> without being a "killer" energy, it just happens to be selective about > >>> what it stimulates? > >> > Hi Gary, I used to think that reiki was selective, now I'm not so sure.. > I had shingles this winter (as far as I know this is a virus) and reiki > didn't help all that much. Shingles depletes the immune system, so as a > consequence I got all sort of infections: ear infection. throat > infection, two eye infections, you name it.. For the whole of January I > was "frying" myself with reiki every night without any results. In the > end I had to take a course of antibiotics to get better. I would have to > conclude that antibiotics are DEFINITELY more selective than reiki, lol, > so from now on I will choose the latter when needed.. > > Chacal --------------3E11592D94FE4F33323EFF4A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=iso-8859-2; name="byjoke.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Theo Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="byjoke.vcf" begin:vcard n:S.N.C.;Mauro Lattes & José Vargas tel;fax:+41 022 310 91 02 tel;work:+41 022 310 91 01 x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:byjoke@ch.inter.net fn:SPRINTERS end:vcard --------------3E11592D94FE4F33323EFF4A-- ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: 20 Feb 2003 21:58:01 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 33 Message-ID: <6uy94a8yau.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> <3E51DCC4.1B2DB618@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net> <3E5244E2.84D6BF56@bluewin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1045774681 437 10.0.3.2 (20 Feb 2003 20:58:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Feb 2003 20:58:01 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3171 "jan" writes: > I think I heard somewhere: > That a virus is not a living organism by itself. Yes. Just a bit of dead matter. One can even make crystals of them. > It is merely a protein that > modifies the way the cells of the host work (making it produce more virus). It is a DNA molecule, that is packaged in protein. It is the DNA that does the job of subverting host cells to make more viruses. BTW: Computer viruses got their name because tha yare programs that subvert other programs into making copies of them. > The body responds by killing the modified cells. Yes. > Bacterial infections work totally different btw Yes. Bacteria are real living beings, neither animal or plant. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Programmer, Archer, Blacksmith - hardware runs the world, software controls the hardware code generates the software, have you coded today? ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: 20 Feb 2003 22:01:58 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 35 Message-ID: <6uvfze8y49.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> <3E51DCC4.1B2DB618@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net> <3E54B8C1.62754B05@bluewin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1045774918 437 10.0.3.2 (20 Feb 2003 21:01:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Feb 2003 21:01:58 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3172 Theo writes: > Anti-biotics means "against- life " and are selected for acting on that > special group of viruses Antibiotics work against bacteria, not against viruses. > and do not act on others there are many different > sort of antibiotics.. so have to be selective otherwise might destroy all > sort of organisms living iside us and taht are necessary .. They are not selective, and actually do kill off all bacteria (some better than others), including usefull ones. In that respect they are like insect spray, poisons that kill the targets at lower doses than is need to harm humans or farm animals. That is why antibiotics cause digestion problems as side effect. The usefull bacteria will reappear, but that takes time. > this is the reason > why eating yoghurts while taking antibiotics helps to repristinate some > intestine bacteria that are good for us but are killed by the antibiotics as > sensible to its action .. Yes. That helps replacing ther usefull bacteria, at least some of them. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Programmer, Archer, Blacksmith - hardware runs the world, software controls the hardware code generates the software, have you coded today? ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Date: 21 Feb 2003 00:01:36 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 97 Message-ID: <6ulm0a8skv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> <3E51DCC4.1B2DB618@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net> <3E54B8C1.62754B05@bluewin.ch> <6uvfze8y49.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3E555057.96AE16C7@ch.inter.net.nospam> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1045782099 640 10.0.3.2 (20 Feb 2003 23:01:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Feb 2003 23:01:39 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3177 Theo writes: > well I guess we are saying the same things .. As far as the Reiki goes yes. I was mainly pointing out the antibiotica virus/bacteria difference. As many people seem to think that antibiotica will help them with viral illnesses such as flu or colds, while it will not, and just does damage to usefull bacteria. >  so if  bacteria are   living beings we cannot  act on them That depends on what Reiki actually works like. Does it simply strengthen all life (that would make it useless against bacteria) or does it somehow know the "propper form" and aim at reestablishing that (which would make it usefull). I do not know enough to answer that question. >  so  in theory we might act on viruses as they are not living beings.. but we Viruses themselves are not living (as defined by being active beigns that react to their environment). But once they invade an host cell, that host cell still remains an living being. So the same question of Reiki effekt is raised. Even more so, as it is host cells, not foreign bacterial cells. > cannot again .. so maybe  at our actual knowlege  we are uncapable to define > something  similar to life into viruses but probably  virus is a form of life that > we  cannot understand   as such  so we say it is not  alive Well they seem to lack everything associated with life. No action. No reaction. No procreation. > Neil Franklin wrote: > > > Theo writes: > > > > > Anti-biotics means "against- life " and are selected for acting on that > > > special  group of  viruses > > > > Antibiotics work against bacteria, not against viruses. > >   we all know that I had read your "Anti-biotics ... acting on that special  group of  viruses" ^^^^^^^ That is unfortunately common, that people claim that. May have been an typing error in your case. >   with viruses one has to wait and some medicaments can help in > supporting them  but not winning them .. herpes is a virus you cannot destroy it  ( > for instance) Only the infected host cells. And that is difficult, because they are host material. So difficult that one can only wait for the immune system to do its job. > > > and do not act on others   there are many different > > > sort of antibiotics.. so have to be selective  otherwise might destroy all > > > sort of organisms living iside us and taht are necessary .. > > > They are not selective, and actually do kill off all bacteria (some > > better than others), including usefull ones. In that respect they are > > like insect spray, poisons that kill the targets at lower doses than > > is need to harm humans or farm animals. > >  by selective I ment  that some antibiotics  have  effect on  some familes of > bacteria and others onto others >  this is why there are so many different types of antibiotics,, They usually affect a wide range of bacteria, but some stronger and some weaker. I was referring to your "so have to be selective otherwise might destroy". Actually one has to select to hit the bacteria involved. And then accept what range of victims the particular antibiotic takes out. > but  also  > becaouse   antibiotics loose their powers as many  bacteria can  adapt  and ev olve > and  get " immunized" against them .. >  by our abuse of antibiotics in all fields we are loosing the battle against t hem Yes. One reasion why wasting antibiotica on flu or colds is sensless. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Programmer, Archer, Blacksmith - hardware runs the world, software controls the hardware code generates the software, have you coded today? ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3e5580ec.702988@news.earthlink.net> References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> <3E51DCC4.1B2DB618@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net> <3E54B8C1.62754B05@bluewin.ch> <6uvfze8y49.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3E555057.96AE16C7@ch.inter.net.nospam> <6ulm0a8skv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 27 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 01:25:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.247.160.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1045790726 165.247.160.189 (Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:25:26 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:25:26 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!west.cox.net!cox.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3185 On 21 Feb 2003 00:01:36 +0100, Neil Franklin wrote: >>  so if  bacteria are   living beings we cannot  act on them > >That depends on what Reiki actually works like. Does it simply >strengthen all life (that would make it useless against bacteria) or >does it somehow know the "propper form" and aim at reestablishing >that (which would make it usefull). Or is it a numbers game? Since the host cells far outnumber the bacterial infection, strengthening billions (trillions? quadrillions?) over strengthening thousands or millions could be a losing proposition for the bacterial infection. When both organisms are working at their maximum effectiveness, our bodies are well adapted to coping, which is why we don't get sick most of the time. Just my guess. >I do not know enough to answer that question. Me too! namaste, Garry ###### Message-ID: <3E55CE00.75511A1B@ch.inter.net.nospam> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:58:08 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,it,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> <3E51DCC4.1B2DB618@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net> <3E54B8C1.62754B05@bluewin.ch> <6uvfze8y49.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3E555057.96AE16C7@ch.inter.net.nospam> <6ulm0a8skv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.38.179 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.38.179 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045810685 213.3.38.179 (21 Feb 2003 07:58:05 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 69 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3186 HI Neil Neil Franklin wrote: >   > > That depends on what Reiki actually works like. Does it simply > strengthen all life (that would make it useless against bacteria) or > does it somehow know the "propper form" and aim at reestablishing > that (which would make it usefull). >    I think  that strenghthen both at the same but  also  reestablish a bad  circulation of energies due to infection and that made the possibility to it to install >    only in last century humanity has  been  freed from the scare of many lethal deseases  and we lost perception of how dangerous life was.. body was stronger as used to fight all the time against *invaders* today it is very  easy to get  a Tylenol in case of fever   before you could take after few days of suffering  and if  very bad Causith  or Quinine.. and it was   owful as taste  and u  had to wait anyway  so   the  body  had stronger defences and probaly also better energies    people was less tired stressed  less nourished   even if of better quality  of food and  worked harder .  I guess Reiki establish lso teh  perturbated energies..  after all we do also Chachra alignent don't we ` ind it has an influence in  energies circulations. >   > I do not know enough to answer that question. me too I just try to be logic and guess  no total  clear answer for the moment >   > > >  so  in theory we might act on viruses as they are not living beings.. but we > > Viruses themselves are not living (as defined by being active beigns > that react to their environment). But once they invade an host cell, > that host cell still remains an living being. So the same question of > Reiki effekt is raised. Even more so, as it is host cells, not foreign > bacterial cells. > > > cannot again .. so maybe  at our actual knowlege  we are uncapable to define > > something  similar to life into viruses but probably  virus is a form of life > that > > we  cannot understand   as such  so we say it is not  alive > > Well they seem to lack everything associated with life. No action. No > reaction. No procreation.  well  it has procreation as virus reproduce itself introducing his ADN  in between the  cells adn  it is a different  procreation a sort of cloning ..the same pattern.. in AIDs the   point is that the virus reproduces different pattern  that skip the action of medicaments  or vaccination (  on testing actually) so  he is  most of the time still  alive and  invading the cells .. many sort of lue change from year to year so we   get it  everytime as our antibodies do not recognize and annhilate it  at the first contact!  namaste Theo >   >   >   ###### Message-ID: <3E55CE58.9575F195@ch.inter.net.nospam> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:59:36 +0100 From: Theo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,it,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki in times of crisis... References: <3e305ec8.10595307@news.earthlink.net> <3E30A77E.1499D65E@nidlink.com> <3E4F56D6.DFA0B2D3@ch.inter.net> <3E50A90B.E1240F71@bluewin.ch> <3E512DD8.88F18B72@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e519acc.2268422@news.earthlink.net> <3E51DCC4.1B2DB618@ch.inter.net.nospam> <3e52393f.672834@news.earthlink.net> <3E54B8C1.62754B05@bluewin.ch> <6uvfze8y49.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3E555057.96AE16C7@ch.inter.net.nospam> <6ulm0a8skv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3e5580ec.702988@news.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.38.179 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.3.38.179 X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1045810772 213.3.38.179 (21 Feb 2003 07:59:32 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 37 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:3188   Nadie Niemand wrote: > On 21 Feb 2003 00:01:36 +0100, Neil Franklin > wrote: > > >>  so if  bacteria are   living beings we cannot  act on them > > > >That depends on what Reiki actually works like. Does it simply > >strengthen all life (that would make it useless against bacteria) or > >does it somehow know the "propper form" and aim at reestablishing > >that (which would make it usefull). > > Or is it a numbers game? Since the host cells far outnumber the > bacterial infection, strengthening billions (trillions? quadrillions?) > over strengthening thousands or millions could be a losing proposition > for the bacterial infection. When both organisms are working at their > maximum effectiveness, our bodies are well adapted to coping, which is > why we don't get sick most of the time. Just my guess.  probably it might work this way.. must be   different efefcts at the same time not just a direct one  Theo >   > > >I do not know enough to answer that question. > > > Me too! > > > namaste, > > Garry