From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Shiatsu and Reiki? Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3da42cfe.857988@news.earthlink.net> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 25 Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 13:21:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.247.161.235 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1034169665 165.247.161.235 (Wed, 09 Oct 2002 06:21:05 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 06:21:05 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn11feed!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!207.217.77.102!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:541 Shiatsu uses pressure on acupuncture points (tsubos, I think they're called in Japan? where's a really knowledgeable person when you need one? ) in order to facilitate the flow of ki through the meridians by unblocking it where it's blocked, or redistributing it where it is too strong, building it up where it's too weak, etc. What to press where is based on diagnosis. It is not Reiki, but there is no reason why both arts cannot be used together. In fact, I know a shiatsu practitioner who is also a 3rd degree Reiki practitioner who says that she uses Reiki while performing shiatsu treatments. Love and Light, Garry On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:13:03 +0200, "gb" wrote: >Any relation between these two? > >thanks. > >g. > > ###### Reply-To: "Steven Buck, CMT" From: "Steven Buck, CMT" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: Subject: Re: Shiatsu and Reiki? Lines: 16 Organization: www.metareiki.org & www.ripeboys.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.165.199.114 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.com 1034172269 ST000 64.165.199.114 (Wed, 09 Oct 2002 10:04:29 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 10:04:29 EDT X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MONTBTQBUD[HBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^RR@ETUCCNSKQFCY@TXDX_WHSVB]ZEJLSNY\^J[CUVSA_QLFC^RQHUPH[P[NRWCCMLSNPOD_ESALHUK@TDFUZHBLJ\XGKL^NXA\EVHSP[D_C^B_^JCX^W]CHBAX]POG@SSAZQ\LE[DCNMUPG_VSC@VJM Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 14:04:29 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belwue.de!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!9eb22389!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:531 Only in application. Shiatsu is based on Acupuncture, which involves a release of energy from imbalanced areas in a person's system (thereby allowing the system to replenish itself in balance). Reiki is drawn by the patient as needed, and directed by the patients system to go where it's needed. -- Steven Buck, CMT "gb" wrote in message news:ao16n8$i8rs6$1@ID-161723.news.dfncis.de... > Any relation between these two? > thanks. > g. ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Shiatsu and Reiki? Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:40:34 +0100 Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1034189030 28524 194.222.30.223 (9 Oct 2002 18:43:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:43:50 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!peernews.cix.co.uk!shale.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy.rigby Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:555 gb writes >Any relation between these two? Nice question. Maybe with a bit more than a year's shiatsu behind me I'd be able to give a better answer, but here goes. Probably yes. Some relation. Depending on how you see them both. If you think Usui's Reiki may have some roots in Traditional Chinese medicine & hands on healing methods, Ki flow, Zen, then it's entirely possible that you'll find some common antecedents. While there are many different schools & styles of shiatsu, the focus is to encourage the receiver's energy to become more balanced, thus promoting self healing. Which is the aim of the healing aspect of Reiki, isn't it ? Practising shiatsu's a bit more than a matter of pressing on tsubos though. (My school stresses the importance of *flow* rather than points.) Essentially it requires the cultivation of a particular mindset ... which is so far as I can tell identical to the Reiki "doing by not doing" thing, drawing attention to imbalanced areas & allowing the space for them to resolve. But with a theoretical underpinning that can include classical meridian theory, Zen extensions, macrobiotics, Five Element theory, yin & yang, "diagnostic" methods, plus Western anatomy, physiology & pathology. So it takes a hell of a lot more book learning to get to grips with than Reiki. There isn't a preset treatment form in shiatsu anything like the Reiki "hand positions" ... each session is unique to the receiver's needs and can include gentle holding, rocking, pressure, stretches, joint rotation as necessary. There's even an off-body style ... As I say, I'm a novice, and by necessity only speaking from my own perspective, but at this stage of things I'm observing some very common elements. A response from someone with a different view of Reiki, and a different view of shiatsu would be ... different ;) -- Judy http://members.lycos.co.uk/bluelotusrising/index.html http://www.rigbys.demon.co.uk ###### From: "Taggart King" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: Subject: Re: Shiatsu and Reiki? Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:49:00 +0100 Lines: 33 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-62-64-209-44.access.uk.tiscali.com Message-ID: <3da48844_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> X-Trace: 9 Oct 2002 20:49:24 +0100, dial-62-64-209-44.access.uk.tiscali.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!dial-62-64-209-44.access.uk.tiscali.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:559 Hi Judy, Usui did Zen training for three years, and he also followed a martial art that I believe had a strong Zen flavour: Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, so the connection may be there, and certainly he would have known all about the principles of TCM. The 'doing without doing' thing could I think be seen as echoed in Usui's emphasis on 'oneness', on of the goals of the system. He even emphasised mindfulness when he taught. Usui's Reiki didn't follow a preset 'form' - that's something that seems to have come from Hayashi/Takata - so every treatment would have been different and hand positioning would have been intuitive, though treatments weren't really the main thrust of his system. I have found through personal experimentation that Reiki can be directed in such a way that it displays the essence of the Five Elements of TCM; just shows how malleable and adaptable Reiki is! Best wishes, and good luck with your endless bookwork! I am *so* happy that I don't need to do that anymore! Taggart King ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- NEW: Reiki Meditation CD http://www.reiki-evolution.co.uk/reikimedcd.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ###### From: woodvine@netidea.com (Joel) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Shiatsu and Reiki? Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:38:51 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: <3da4af24.25629892@news.netidea.com> References: <3da48844_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-377.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:573 On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:49:00 +0100, "Taggart King" wrote: >hand >positioning would have been intuitive, though treatments weren't really the >main thrust of his system. > Hi, Taggart Having been involved with a number of Asian ways (dharmas, do's), I'm always curious about statements like yours: "though treatments weren't really the main thrust of his system" -- so then what was? Sorry if this is OT to the shiatsu question. Blessings, Joel ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Shiatsu and Reiki? Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3da4ed98.2455982@news.earthlink.net> References: <3da48844_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <3da4af24.25629892@news.netidea.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 12 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:56:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.247.134.125 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1034218582 165.247.134.125 (Wed, 09 Oct 2002 19:56:22 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 19:56:22 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!cox.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:580 On Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:38:51 GMT, woodvine@netidea.com (Joel) wrote: >Having been involved with a number of Asian ways (dharmas, do's), I'm >always curious about statements like yours: "though treatments weren't >really the main thrust of his system" -- so then what was? Enlightenment, no? L&L, Garry ###### From: "Taggart King" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3da48844_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <3da4af24.25629892@news.netidea.com> <3da4ed98.2455982@news.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Shiatsu and Reiki? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 22:17:07 +0100 Lines: 47 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-62-64-208-20.access.uk.tiscali.com Message-ID: <3da5ee6d_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> X-Trace: 10 Oct 2002 22:17:33 +0100, dial-62-64-208-20.access.uk.tiscali.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!news-x2.support.nl!colt.net!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!dial-62-64-208-20.access.uk.tiscali.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:601 Hi Joel and Garry, Yes, Usui's system was first and foremost a path to enlightenment, a spiritual path, a self-healing system. That was the focus, and it involved doing stuff that never got through to the West at all, because Dr Hayashi wasn't interested in all that stuff. He was a Christian and a Doctor and he wanted to use Reiki as a treatment method. As far as Usui's system was concerned, treating others was something that you could do if you wanted, but it wasn't really emphasised, and when you did treat there were not the endless instructions and 'techniques' that we see in the West. In fact the vast majority of the treatment methods that we currently see being promoted and written about as 'original Usui techniques' simply weren't: they were clutter that accumulated later in Reiki's Japanese history. When you trained with Usui you'd be introduced to mindfulness, you'd do energy exercises/meditations throughout your training, you'd study Buddhist sutras, you'd chant Shinto mantras, you'd focus on the precepts, which were along the lines of the precepts that other Zen and Tendai teachers were passing on at the time, apparently. Best wishes, Taggart King ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Reiki Evolution Claim your FREE Guide to Reiki's Original Form http://www.reiki-evolution.co.uk/reikiguide.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message news:3da4ed98.2455982@news.earthlink.net... > On Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:38:51 GMT, woodvine@netidea.com (Joel) wrote: > > >Having been involved with a number of Asian ways (dharmas, do's), I'm > >always curious about statements like yours: "though treatments weren't > >really the main thrust of his system" -- so then what was? > > Enlightenment, no? > > L&L, > > Garry > ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Shiatsu and Reiki? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 22:37 +0100 (BST) Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <3da5ee6d_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust44.oldh.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.44) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1034285860 19982375 80.2.124.44 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust44.oldh.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:633 (Taggart King) wrote: > Yes, Usui's system was first and foremost a path to enlightenment, a > spiritual path, a self-healing system. That was the focus [....] In agreement there, Taggart .... As to the training regime, we obviously don't have the same access (or, would we indeed want it given different cultural identities?) To my mind the Reiki concept becomes whatever you perceive it to be .. You can't box it in and give it a label ... :) Stuart ###### From: "Taggart King" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3da5ee6d_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> Subject: Re: Shiatsu and Reiki? Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 00:57:18 +0100 Lines: 41 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-62-64-211-46.access.uk.tiscali.com Message-ID: <3da613f9_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> X-Trace: 11 Oct 2002 00:57:45 +0100, dial-62-64-211-46.access.uk.tiscali.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!diablo.theplanet.net!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!dial-62-64-211-46.access.uk.tiscali.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:643 Hi Stuart, "As to the training regime, we obviously don't have the same access (or, would we indeed want it given different cultural identities?)" ... I don't necessarily see a problem. Judo, Shiatsu, Flower arranging, Origami, Buddhist meditations etc seem to be practised in the West. I suppose it depends whether you feel drawn to practice Reiki as it was laid down by Usui, or whether you feel happy to practice another variation. Reiki is very mouldable. Best wishes, Taggart --------------------------------------------------- NEW: Reiki Meditation CD http://www.reiki-evolution.co.uk/reikimedcd.htm --------------------------------------------------- "Stuart Vernon" wrote in message news:memo.20021010223736.440H@stuv.compulink.co.uk... > (Taggart King) wrote: > > > Yes, Usui's system was first and foremost a path to enlightenment, a > > spiritual path, a self-healing system. That was the focus [....] > > In agreement there, Taggart .... > > As to the training regime, we obviously don't have the same access (or, > would we indeed want it given different cultural identities?) > > To my mind the Reiki concept becomes whatever you perceive it to be .. > > You can't box it in and give it a label ... :) > > Stuart > > ###### From: "mark-sheff" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3da48844_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <3da4af24.25629892@news.netidea.com> <3da4ed98.2455982@news.earthlink.net> <3da5ee6d_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> Subject: Re: Shiatsu and Reiki? Lines: 82 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 20:17:26 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.194.36.41 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk 1034363296 80.194.36.41 (Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:08:16 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:08:16 GMT Organization: blueyonder (post doesn't reflect views of blueyonder) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!internal-news-hub.cableinet.net!news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:647 The relation is that they both work with energy. > that said, when i came to reiki, several years after shiatsu training, i > found the methods similar to the holding techniques, particularly similar to > those of macrobiotic shiatsu. when giving reiki for a specific ailment i > always hold the first and last tsubo (meridian point), and run reiki, then > using two fingers, trace the length of the meridian running reiki. very > effective. > Mark > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gb" > Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 2:13 PM > Subject: Shiatsu and Reiki? > > > > Any relation between these two? > > > > thanks. > > > > g. > > > > > "Taggart King" wrote in message news:3da5ee6d_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com... > Hi Joel and Garry, > > Yes, Usui's system was first and foremost a path to enlightenment, a > spiritual path, a self-healing system. That was the focus, and it involved > doing stuff that never got through to the West at all, because Dr Hayashi > wasn't interested in all that stuff. He was a Christian and a Doctor and he > wanted to use Reiki as a treatment method. As far as Usui's system was > concerned, treating others was something that you could do if you wanted, > but it wasn't really emphasised, and when you did treat there were not the > endless instructions and 'techniques' that we see in the West. In fact the > vast majority of the treatment methods that we currently see being promoted > and written about as 'original Usui techniques' simply weren't: they were > clutter that accumulated later in Reiki's Japanese history. > > When you trained with Usui you'd be introduced to mindfulness, you'd do > energy exercises/meditations throughout your training, you'd study Buddhist > sutras, you'd chant Shinto mantras, you'd focus on the precepts, which were > along the lines of the precepts that other Zen and Tendai teachers were > passing on at the time, apparently. > > Best wishes, > > > Taggart King > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > Reiki Evolution > Claim your FREE Guide to Reiki's Original Form > http://www.reiki-evolution.co.uk/reikiguide.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message > news:3da4ed98.2455982@news.earthlink.net... > > On Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:38:51 GMT, woodvine@netidea.com (Joel) wrote: > > > > >Having been involved with a number of Asian ways (dharmas, do's), I'm > > >always curious about statements like yours: "though treatments weren't > > >really the main thrust of his system" -- so then what was? > > > > Enlightenment, no? > > > > L&L, > > > > Garry > > > >