From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Graphics on the IBM 2260? Date: 4 Apr 2005 17:44:32 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 56 Message-ID: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.234.170.82 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: posting.google.com 1112661877 15914 127.0.0.1 (5 Apr 2005 00:44:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 00:44:37 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: G2/0.2 Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com; posting-host=216.234.170.82; posting-account=iYorygwAAABh_sJqNDMvFdsA7EcFurwY Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!gatel-ffm!gatel-ffm!proxad.net!216.239.36.134.MISMATCH!postnews.google.com!g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202311 The IBM 2250, of course, was a vector graphics display terminal that came in several configurations. One depended on the host computer for all the work, another had an IBM 1130 as a local processor. It came with a keyboard of round pushbuttons that could be labelled with an overlay, thus presaging the original keyboard of the IBM PCjr. But in addition, it had a sensor (presumably composed of microswitches) that let it determine which of 16 overlays was in use. This principle is, of course, familiar today from innumerable computerized toys for small children. The University where I went couldn't afford one of these. They used a similar terminal from Control Data which used an embedded CDC 120A computer for processing, called the GRID terminal (presumably for GRaphics Input Device - it had a light pen). At least, that's what they called it *there*, but that may not have been the name under which CDC sold the device, since it appears as if the sole mention of this terminal on the whole Web is the abstract of a paper authored by a professor at the University of Alberta. But the IBM 2260 was the little video terminal used for text purposes with IBM 360 computers before the IBM 3270 came out. It was basically an EBCDIC dumb terminal. IBM 2260 terminals in combination with a slide projector formed the specialized terminal used with the IBM 1500 educational system. I recalled seeing photographs of graphics not on the projector screen, but on the 2260 screen itself. In a web search on this topic, I've found that these graphics apparently were achieved by means of a programmable character set. Another reference mentions the IBM 2260/65 as the graphics-capable member of the 2260 family. Incidentally, the 3270 could not have been used for graphics if it had a programmable character set. Having one day briefly turned up the brightness on one (not one in actual service, but one being sold as government surplus, IIRC - those babies are apparently "half-duplex" enough that you can type on the keyboard and see what you've typed on the screen of one that isn't connected to anything), so that I could see the raster, I discovered that instead of having blank scan lines between lines of characters, it increased the rate of vertical sweep, to allow generous space between lines (otherwise, characters in 80-column displays tended to be tall and thin) and yet keep the number of scan lines to a minimum (hence minimizing flicker at a given level of technology). For those who are completely unfamiliar with the IBM 2260, it featured prominently in the recent movie version of _1984_ which starred William Hurt. (An earlier version was made in the 1950s.) Although they turned some of the ones they used into TV monitors, IIRC, having graphic display capabilities no real 2260 ever had. John Savard ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 21:41:46 -0400 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Message-ID: Mail-Copies-To: nobody References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.4 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 22 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsmi-eu.news.garr.it!newsmi-us.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-12!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!howard Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202317 In article <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, jsavard@ecn.ab.ca wrote: > The IBM 2250, of course, was a vector graphics display terminal that > came in several configurations. One depended on the host computer for > all the work, another had an IBM 1130 as a local processor. Yes, as I documented . > For those who are completely unfamiliar with the IBM 2260, it featured > prominently in the recent movie version of _1984_ which starred William > Hurt. (An earlier version was made in the 1950s.) Although they turned > some of the ones they used into TV monitors, IIRC, having graphic > display capabilities no real 2260 ever had. I found , which doesn't disagree with what you've said. -- Though I've tried, I've fallen... / I have sunk so low I have messed up / Better I should know ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 04 Apr 2005 19:18:42 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 21 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: news.spies.com 1112667522 64.62.206.2 (4 Apr 2005 19:18:42 -0700) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.moat.net!newsfeed-3001.bay.webtv.net!news.spies.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202320 jsavard@ecn.ab.ca writes: > The IBM 2250, of course, was a vector graphics display terminal that > came in several configurations. One depended on the host computer for > all the work, another had an IBM 1130 as a local processor. In addition to the 2250 Model 4 which attaches to an 1130, there were at least three different models for use on the System/360, and recently I saw a reference to one being built into the 360/9x. As I understand it (from only a very cursory review of the documentation), the 2250 Model 1 had an integral control unit, which does not appear to be an 1130. The Model 2 and Model 3 used the 2840 Display Control Model 1 and 2, respectively. The 2840 could support two 2250s (optionally expandable to four). The 2250 Model 4 was used with the 1130. The manual primarily describes operation of the 2250 on the 1130 locally. Brief mention is given to the idea of using the combination as a remote terminal for a 360, but no particular details of such an arrangement are provided. Eric ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 22:34:19 -0500 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 21:34:17 -0600 Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:4KBNuPLYf4FTKUQdvfaMdGHA1Ro= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.173.231.147 X-Trace: sv3-zV7yaDEBaFoWF6Fk/Ez6Sbbg5MyQTFQVepByGliVjDURNoJep29PqPuD00nrnoh2fXKMZfwaTSEzVAd!coIYHSAoY/2MpLAMkbIW4Y/btgN6RifW3HZWmgtBvPVK/OLfianixmvnyN6l/pQ= X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.32 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202328 Eric Smith writes: > In addition to the 2250 Model 4 which attaches to an 1130, there were at > least three different models for use on the System/360, and recently I > saw a reference to one being built into the 360/9x. > > As I understand it (from only a very cursory review of the > documentation), the 2250 Model 1 had an integral control unit, which > does not appear to be an 1130. The Model 2 and Model 3 used the 2840 > Display Control Model 1 and 2, respectively. The 2840 could support two > 2250s (optionally expandable to four). > > The 2250 Model 4 was used with the 1130. The manual primarily describes > operation of the 2250 on the 1130 locally. Brief mention is given to > the idea of using the combination as a remote terminal for a 360, but no > particular details of such an arrangement are provided. the university i was at had a 2250m1 (direct channel attach) ... lincoln labs had done a cms fortran graphics labrary for the 2250m1. i took the lincoln labs library and integrated it into cms edit ... to create an early full-screen editor. the science center had a 2250m4 (i.e. with 1130). somebody at the science center had ported space wars to the 1130 and you could play two-person space war on the thing .... bascially the keyboard was divided in half (with each plaayer getting their half of the keyboard) which had the various controls. -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? Date: 4 Apr 2005 21:04:42 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: <1112673882.180370.56720@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.234.170.91 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: posting.google.com 1112673886 7844 127.0.0.1 (5 Apr 2005 04:04:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 04:04:46 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: G2/0.2 Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com; posting-host=216.234.170.91; posting-account=iYorygwAAABh_sJqNDMvFdsA7EcFurwY Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!proxad.net!216.239.36.134.MISMATCH!postnews.google.com!l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202331 Howard S Shubs wrote: > I found , which doesn't > disagree with what you've said. Although I had run across that page before, I didn't read the text on it carefully; this answers several of my questions. I remember once at University someone trying to explain to me how a 3270 worked, and I was doubtful... it turns out that his explanation did not apply to the 3270, but it did apply to the 2260 - it gets a video signal from a central controller. And that site also explains the limitation of the graphics capabilities of the 2260. The character set is programmable, but at the *controller* level; this is fine if a project requires a special character set for a whole classroom of students, but it does not permit an individual, running his own application at one terminal, to use a special programmed character set for that application. John Savard ###### From: Joe Morris Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:21:17 +0000 (UTC) Organization: The MITRE Organization Lines: 41 Message-ID: References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mm127387-pc-1.mitre.org X-Trace: newslocal.mitre.org 1112707277 6360 128.29.24.19 (5 Apr 2005 13:21:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:21:17 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: nn/6.6.5 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!nntp.TheWorld.com!newstransit.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202357 jsavard@ecn.ab.ca writes: >But the IBM 2260 was the little video terminal used for text purposes >with IBM 360 computers before the IBM 3270 came out. It was basically >an EBCDIC dumb terminal. Not-quite-a-nitpick: the 2260 display terminal knew nothing about character sets. It was essentially a picture tube with an attached keyboard; the display showed the (analog) image sent to it over a coax line from the controller. The 2260s my PPOE used were attached to the S/360 channel via a 2848 control unit, which (surprise!) spoke EBCDIC. In the 2848, the data for each attached terminal was contained in a dedicated mechanical (torsion) delay line. The data was converted into bit patterns for the video display through a matrix of magnetic cores (you could eyeball many of the letterforms in the matrix; cores were located where illuminated phosphor dots were needed and missing where they weren't wanted). >IBM 2260 terminals in combination with a slide projector formed the >specialized terminal used with the IBM 1500 educational system. I don't know the 1500; was it by any chance based on the 14xx architecture? If it's a pre-S/360 design then it would be unlikely to be using EBCDIC. >In a web search on this topic, I've found that these graphics >apparently were achieved by means of a programmable character set. >Another reference mentions the IBM 2260/65 as the graphics-capable >member of the 2260 family. H'mmm...At least for the 2260 in my shop I have no recollection of having heard of a programmable character set. At the same time, we used it as a HASP console (this was on a very memory-constrained MVT system where we couldn't dedicate the memory required to use MCS) so there wouldn't have been any reason for us to have investigated the availability of a programmable character set. Joe Morris ###### Message-ID: <4252B81D.62F72C3C@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research http://cbfalconer.home.att.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 16:33:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.76.140.55 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1112718837 12.76.140.55 (Tue, 05 Apr 2005 16:33:57 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 16:33:57 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202364 Joe Morris wrote: > ... snip ... > > In the 2848, the data for each attached terminal was contained in > a dedicated mechanical (torsion) delay line. The data was converted > into bit patterns for the video display through a matrix of magnetic > cores (you could eyeball many of the letterforms in the matrix; cores > were located where illuminated phosphor dots were needed and missing > where they weren't wanted). How old was this? Sounds like using rope memory for the ROM char. generator, and preceding the invention of PMOS shift registers. i.e. the whole thing should be earlier than about 1970, maybe early '60s. -- "If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson ###### From: "Tim Shoppa" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? Date: 5 Apr 2005 09:51:31 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 14 Message-ID: <1112719890.994188.107790@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4252B81D.62F72C3C@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 170.121.15.35 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: posting.google.com 1112719895 32462 127.0.0.1 (5 Apr 2005 16:51:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 16:51:35 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <4252B81D.62F72C3C@yahoo.com> User-Agent: G2/0.2 Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com; posting-host=170.121.15.35; posting-account=mAyfxAwAAABWbrxnXxYpn9RczUJc3B8w Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.hispeed.ch!newsfeed.inode.at!newsfeed.freenet.de!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.cs.univ-paris8.fr!proxad.net!216.239.36.134.MISMATCH!postnews.google.com!z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202369 > How old was this? Sounds like using rope memory > for the ROM char. generator [...] Just to jump in on an even older technology, my favorite terminal/CRT character generators is the mask character generator, with separate steering for gun to mask and then mask to CRT. The result looks remarkably typewriter-like, especially as small misalignments of characters are repeated every time that character is used. Did IBM use this technology in any of its terminals? I think I saw it in a RCA terminal hooked up to a Spectra. Tim. ###### From: Rich Alderson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? Date: 05 Apr 2005 14:33:34 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC Lines: 17 Sender: alderson+news@panix5.panix.com Message-ID: References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix5.panix.com X-Trace: reader1.panix.com 1112726014 19379 166.84.1.5 (5 Apr 2005 18:33:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 18:33:34 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 21.3 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!panix!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202373 Joe Morris writes: > I don't know the 1500; was it by any chance based on the 14xx > architecture? If it's a pre-S/360 design then it would be unlikely > to be using EBCDIC. It's an 1800 (the process-control relative of the 1130); the one at the CAI Lab at the University of Texas had a 1442 and a 1443 attached to it, as well as the 1500-related terminals. Provided Coursewriter II services. The original Coursewriter software *did* run on a 14xx of some kind. -- Rich Alderson | /"\ ASCII ribbon | news@alderson.users.panix.com | \ / campaign against | "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." | x HTML mail and | --Death, of the Endless | / \ postings | ###### From: Rich Alderson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? Date: 05 Apr 2005 14:41:31 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC Lines: 20 Sender: alderson+news@panix5.panix.com Message-ID: References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix5.panix.com X-Trace: reader1.panix.com 1112726491 19379 166.84.1.5 (5 Apr 2005 18:41:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 18:41:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 21.3 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.space.net!news.as8665.net!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202374 jsavard@ecn.ab.ca writes: > IBM 2260 terminals in combination with a slide projector formed the > specialized terminal used with the IBM 1500 educational system. > I recalled seeing photographs of graphics not on the projector screen, > but on the 2260 screen itself. As I recall, the terminals on the 1500 system at the UT School of Education CAI Lab had a 15xx number, but they might have been 2260-based for all that. They had some kind of programmable character sets, because one of the courses using the system was on Russian perfective vs. imperfective verbs, and used Cyrillic on the screen. -- Rich Alderson | /"\ ASCII ribbon | news@alderson.users.panix.com | \ / campaign against | "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." | x HTML mail and | --Death, of the Endless | / \ postings | ###### From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? Date: 5 Apr 2005 12:03:35 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: <1112727815.462921.69340@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.234.170.75 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: posting.google.com 1112727820 1271 127.0.0.1 (5 Apr 2005 19:03:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 19:03:40 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: G2/0.2 Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=216.234.170.75; posting-account=iYorygwAAABh_sJqNDMvFdsA7EcFurwY Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.yul.equant.net!newsprint.newsread.com!newsread.com!news-xfer.newsread.com!postnews.google.com!o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202378 Joe Morris wrote: > I don't know the 1500; The IBM 1500 was an educational system which included an IBM 1130 computer and specialized peripherals for computer-assisted instruction. APL/1500 was interesting in that it had a domino function used to control the multimedia hardware, as well as providing some of the functions handled by system variables in later forms of APL. I see from the APL/1130 manual on Al Kossow's site that that version of APL did not do that; apparently, the operator console on an 1130 was in the keypunch-style arrangement instead of a typewriter-style arrangement, so a very unusual keyboard arrangement was provided for using APL from the operator console. Although unavoidably quite unusual, it was a very well thought-out response to an unfortunate situation. John Savard ###### From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? Date: 5 Apr 2005 12:06:30 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: <1112727990.015680.267650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.234.170.75 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: posting.google.com 1112727997 1435 127.0.0.1 (5 Apr 2005 19:06:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 19:06:37 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: G2/0.2 Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com; posting-host=216.234.170.75; posting-account=iYorygwAAABh_sJqNDMvFdsA7EcFurwY Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202379 Rich Alderson wrote: > Joe Morris writes: > > I don't know the 1500; > It's an 1800 (the process-control relative of the 1130); the one at the CAI Lab > at the University of Texas had a 1442 and a 1443 attached to it, as well as the > 1500-related terminals. Provided Coursewriter II services. I see on the web that some 1500 systems were built around 1800 computers; the 1800 ran faster than the 1130 as well as having a few extra features. But 1500 systems were also sold with an 1130 as their central processor; the one at the University of Alberta was of this kind. I suppose it depended on how many students one wished to serve. John Savard ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4252B81D.62F72C3C@yahoo.com> <1112719890.994188.107790@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 05 Apr 2005 12:47:12 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: news.spies.com 1112730432 64.62.206.2 (5 Apr 2005 12:47:12 -0700) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!news.kjsl.com!news.spies.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202385 "Tim Shoppa" writes: > Just to jump in on an even older technology, my favorite terminal/CRT > character generators is the mask character generator, with separate > steering for gun to mask and then mask to CRT. The result looks > remarkably typewriter-like, especially as small misalignments of > characters are repeated every time that character is used. That was the RCA "Charactron" tube. ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 17:21:44 -0500 From: "David Wade" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 23:21:43 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: Lines: 55 NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.168.51.233 X-Trace: sv3-pFFVypWtXfIeEZJ8j4lS3izo5AakzWu8qxLJz8OGgvex9PwiKq/YlarKtu7/OrxLTa7NLbmSugHmuwl!ydSULCL6JS26GHOjcXORg4etCMWqnpvX/ExH1VpTqHjqn/c5OIZKkcE1OiwBd2CnXPmRKuGXLeZk!suhD+Jk= X-Complaints-To: abuse@eclipse.net.uk X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@eclipse.net.uk X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.32 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!dedekind.zen.co.uk!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.eclipse.net.uk!news.eclipse.net.uk.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202393 "Joe Morris" wrote in message news:d2u3cd$66o$1@newslocal.mitre.org... > jsavard@ecn.ab.ca writes: > > >But the IBM 2260 was the little video terminal used for text purposes > >with IBM 360 computers before the IBM 3270 came out. It was basically > >an EBCDIC dumb terminal. > > Not-quite-a-nitpick: the 2260 display terminal knew nothing > about character sets. It was essentially a picture tube with an > attached keyboard; the display showed the (analog) image sent to > it over a coax line from the controller. > > The 2260s my PPOE used were attached to the S/360 channel via a > 2848 control unit, which (surprise!) spoke EBCDIC. > I remeber using these (well I assume they were 2260) attached to the 360/67 at newcastle (england) > In the 2848, the data for each attached terminal was contained in > a dedicated mechanical (torsion) delay line. The data was converted > into bit patterns for the video display through a matrix of magnetic > cores (you could eyeball many of the letterforms in the matrix; cores > were located where illuminated phosphor dots were needed and missing > where they weren't wanted). > > >IBM 2260 terminals in combination with a slide projector formed the > >specialized terminal used with the IBM 1500 educational system. > > I don't know the 1500; was it by any chance based on the 14xx > architecture? If it's a pre-S/360 design then it would be unlikely > to be using EBCDIC. > > >In a web search on this topic, I've found that these graphics > >apparently were achieved by means of a programmable character set. > >Another reference mentions the IBM 2260/65 as the graphics-capable > >member of the 2260 family. > > H'mmm...At least for the 2260 in my shop I have no recollection of > having heard of a programmable character set. At the same time, we > used it as a HASP console (this was on a very memory-constrained > MVT system where we couldn't dedicate the memory required to use MCS) > so there wouldn't have been any reason for us to have investigated > the availability of a programmable character set. > I do recall the controller was "clever". I seem to recall that by typing some odd command (the % character rings a bell) you could scroll back and forwards in the terminal buffer... > Joe Morris ###### From: Joe Morris Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:49:47 +0000 (UTC) Organization: The MITRE Organization Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> <4252B81D.62F72C3C@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mm127387-pc-1.mitre.org X-Trace: newslocal.mitre.org 1112791787 16444 128.29.24.19 (6 Apr 2005 12:49:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:49:47 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: nn/6.6.5 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!newstransit.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202464 CBFalconer writes: >Joe Morris wrote: >> In the 2848, the data for each attached terminal was contained in >> a dedicated mechanical (torsion) delay line. >How old was this? Sounds like using rope memory for the ROM char. >generator, and preceding the invention of PMOS shift registers. >i.e. the whole thing should be earlier than about 1970, maybe early >'60s. Almost. IIRC we replaced the 2848/2260 displays with new 327x displays and controllers in ~1973; certainly before 1975 because we moved into a new building in '75 and I remember fighting a major channel interface bug in the 3272 controller in the old building. We had the 2260s for two or three years, so they would have been initially installed in '70 or '71. Of course, these dates say nothing about the age of the technology, but as a state university we couldn't always go with the latest toys that IBM had in its sales manual. Joe Morris ###### From: Joe Morris Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Graphics on the IBM 2260? Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:54:01 +0000 (UTC) Organization: The MITRE Organization Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <1112661872.952004.31880@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mm127387-pc-1.mitre.org X-Trace: newslocal.mitre.org 1112792041 16444 128.29.24.19 (6 Apr 2005 12:54:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:54:01 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: nn/6.6.5 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsmi-eu.news.garr.it!newsmi-us.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!hammer.uoregon.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!newstransit.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:202465 Rich Alderson writes: >The original Coursewriter software *did* run on a 14xx of some kind. Not only that, but the port of Coursewriter to the S/360 didn't change the data, which was kept in 1401 format internally. The communications interface to the BTAM r/w modules translated it between 1401 and line code, making dump reading an interesting exercise. Joe Morris