From: "Heinz Wiggeshoff" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Found on rec.humor.reruns Lines: 45 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 09:52:38 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.159.1.221 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1089208426 69.159.1.221 (Wed, 07 Jul 2004 09:53:46 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 09:53:46 EDT Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!207.35.177.252!nf3.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178558 [Source unknown] IBM and DEC decided to have a boat race, on the Thames, following the famous Oxford vs. Cambridge course. Both teams practiced hard, and came the big day, they were as ready as they could be. IBM won by a mile. Afterwards, the DEC team were very downhearted, and a decision was made that the reason for the crushing defeat had to be found, so a working party was set up to investigate and report. Well, they had everybody on the working party, Sales, Systems Engineering, Marketing, Customer Education, Field Service, the whole lot, and after 3 months they came up with the answer, and the working party co-ordinator gave his summary presentation. "The problem was", he said, "that IBM had 8 people rowing and 1 steering, whereas we had 1 person rowing and 8 steering." The working party was then asked to go away and come up with a plan to prevent a recurrence the following year, for DEC's pride had been damaged, and another defeat was not wanted. 2 months later, the working party had worked out a plan, and the coordinator gave his (customarily brief) summary-- "The guy rowing has got to work harder" -- From the RHF archives as selected by Brad Templeton, Maddi Hausmann and Jim Griffith. This newsgroup posts former jokes from the newsgroup rec.humor.funny. Visit http://www.netfunny.com/rhf to browse the RHF pages and archives on the web. ###### From: Rupert Pigott Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 15:48:31 +0100 Organization: Titanic Enterprises Unlimited Lines: 7 Message-ID: <1089211710.489908@teapot.planet.gong> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: darkboong.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1089211710 4731 80.177.7.220 (7 Jul 2004 14:48:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 14:48:30 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: X-Cache: nntpcache 3.0.1 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031208 Cache-Post-Path: teapot.planet.gong!unknown@192.168.1.10 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178560 Heinz Wiggeshoff wrote: That was a gem, thanks Heinz. :) Cheers, Rupert ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Date: 7 Jul 2004 19:54:31 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 7 Message-ID: References: <1089211710.489908@teapot.planet.gong> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: smeagol.ncf.ca X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1089230071 27493 134.117.136.48 (7 Jul 2004 19:54:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Jul 2004 19:54:31 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@smeagol.ncf.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!news.netplace.de!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178567 Rupert Pigott (roo@try-removing-this.darkboong.demon.co.uk) writes: > Heinz Wiggeshoff wrote: > > That was a gem, thanks Heinz. :) Simple Management 101. Used often with the hope that next time it works. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. References: X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 04 10:11:23 GMT Lines: 47 Message-ID: <40ed2e59$0$1187$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> X-Trace: DXC=E::?Uo9md6j8BTSjC[iH5h0R]m=BkYWIg:6bU3OT9S9jO5:QR4U8mHaaRAVNS:^U:oBhb;2^iGPI` X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!feed3.news.rcn.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178595 In article , "Heinz Wiggeshoff" wrote: >[Source unknown] > > IBM and DEC decided to have a boat race, on the > Thames, following the famous Oxford vs. Cambridge course. > > Both teams practiced hard, and came the big day, they were as > ready as they could be. > > IBM won by a mile. > > Afterwards, the DEC team were very downhearted, and a >decision > was made that the reason for the crushing defeat had to be > found, so a working party was set up to investigate and > report. > > Well, they had everybody on the working party, Sales, Systems > Engineering, Marketing, Customer Education, Field Service, > the whole lot, and after 3 months they came up with the > answer, and the working party co-ordinator gave his summary > presentation. GAWD.. does that bring back memories. They were called post-partum reviews. TOPS-10's first post-partum was useful (that's because it was run by an engineer). Things went downhill after that because PHBs decided they should be in charge of those meetings. > > "The problem was", he said, "that IBM had 8 people rowing > and 1 steering, whereas we had 1 person rowing and 8 > steering." > > The working party was then asked to go away and come up with > a plan to prevent a recurrence the following year, for DEC's > pride had been damaged, and another defeat was not wanted. > > 2 months later, the working party had worked out a plan, and > the coordinator gave his (customarily brief) summary-- > > "The guy rowing has got to work harder" And we did. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Té Rowan Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 00:48:46 +0000 Organization: Word used by Space Aliens Lines: 14 Message-ID: <70hre091nmde46i7gf4155gkdbtbes1t67@4ax.com> References: <1089211710.489908@teapot.planet.gong> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp163-189.as.mi.is Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.simnet.is 1089334126 32278 217.151.163.189 (9 Jul 2004 00:48:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet-abuse@simnet.is NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 00:48:46 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!198.6.0.86!ash.uu.net!news.simnet.is!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178623 Saith Rupert Pigott: >Heinz Wiggeshoff wrote: > >That was a gem, thanks Heinz. :) > >Cheers, >Rupert To get v2.0 of the story: s/IBM/Microsoft/ s/DEC/Apple/ -- Té Rowan (reynirhs@mi.is) ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. References: <1089211710.489908@teapot.planet.gong> <70hre091nmde46i7gf4155gkdbtbes1t67@4ax.com> <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 04 09:39:36 GMT Lines: 40 Message-ID: <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> X-Trace: DXC=dSI7C^Z_>::ZG4_KakBji10R]m=BkYWI7:6bU3OT9S9:W7MTKTW<>m9aRAVNS:^U:?FV9GWnikWS1 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.icl.net!c03.atl99!c01.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!feed3.news.rcn.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178638 In article <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com>, Pete Fenelon wrote: >T? Rowan wrote: >> To get v2.0 of the story: >> s/IBM/Microsoft/ >> s/DEC/Apple/ > >Which reminds me of another old DEC joke: > >Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer with a flat tyre? >A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he > finds the flat... > >Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer whose car has run out of fuel? >A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he > finds the flat... Sheesh! How did we get so bad? That's not how it used to be. The rumors of our excellent outhouse field service would help sales. > >Or, as our fortune file used to say during a phase where one of our 780s >never seemed happy.... > >"You will meet a tall dark stranger. He is probably a DEC engineer." They weren't tall. Just a couple managed to look down at me. I remember the night Marlboro had an open house for something that I can no longer remember. I walked into a room and there was Larry Bird. For the first time in my life I had to move my head to look ^up^ at a person; it was rather disconcerting to feel small. /BAH /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 10:55:20 +0100 Organization: home, speaking for himself and nobody else. Lines: 23 Message-ID: <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com> References: <1089211710.489908@teapot.planet.gong> <70hre091nmde46i7gf4155gkdbtbes1t67@4ax.com> X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de rX5AWWw3l9M8bXuGQK2dzQvwlQFVbwshDG358iMCQY7UHbMYF0 X-Orig-Path: not-for-mail User-Agent: tin/1.7.4-20040225 ("Benbecula") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.19 (i686)) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178634 T? Rowan wrote: > To get v2.0 of the story: > s/IBM/Microsoft/ > s/DEC/Apple/ Which reminds me of another old DEC joke: Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer with a flat tyre? A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he finds the flat... Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer whose car has run out of fuel? A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he finds the flat... Or, as our fortune file used to say during a phase where one of our 780s never seemed happy.... "You will meet a tall dark stranger. He is probably a DEC engineer." pete -- pete@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" ###### From: Rich Alderson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Date: 09 Jul 2004 14:47:01 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC Lines: 26 Sender: alderson+news@panix5.panix.com Message-ID: References: <1089211710.489908@teapot.planet.gong> <70hre091nmde46i7gf4155gkdbtbes1t67@4ax.com> <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com> <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix5.panix.com X-Trace: reader2.panix.com 1089398821 21458 166.84.1.5 (9 Jul 2004 18:47:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 18:47:01 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 21.3 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newspeer1.nwr.nac.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178667 jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > In article <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com>, > Pete Fenelon wrote: >> Or, as our fortune file used to say during a phase where one of our 780s >> never seemed happy.... >> "You will meet a tall dark stranger. He is probably a DEC engineer." > They weren't tall. Just a couple managed to look down at me. > I remember the night Marlboro had an open house for something that > I can no longer remember. I walked into a room and there was Larry > Bird. For the first time in my life I had to move my head to > look ^up^ at a person; it was rather disconcerting to feel small. So you really *are* a Valkyrie!!! Who's taller, you or Valdeane? -- Rich Alderson | /"\ ASCII ribbon | news@alderson.users.panix.com | \ / campaign against | "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." | x HTML mail and | --Death, of the Endless | / \ postings | ###### From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter Carolyn Pechter) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Date: 9 Jul 2004 16:16:09 -0400 Organization: Lakewood MicroSystems Lines: 105 Message-ID: References: <70hre091nmde46i7gf4155gkdbtbes1t67@4ax.com> <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com> <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell.monmouth.com Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!newsgate.cistron.nl!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.monmouth.com!shell.monmouth.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178670 In article <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>, wrote: >In article <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com>, > Pete Fenelon wrote: >>T? Rowan wrote: >>> To get v2.0 of the story: >>> s/IBM/Microsoft/ >>> s/DEC/Apple/ >> >>Which reminds me of another old DEC joke: >> >>Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer with a flat tyre? >>A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he >> finds the flat... >> >>Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer whose car has run out of fuel? >>A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he >> finds the flat... I also remember: Q: How does a DEC Field Service Engineer fix his DECmobile... A: Swaps out all the tires until he finds the flat. Q: What if he swaps them all out and it still doesn't run. A: He changes the battery since it must be a power supply problem. >Sheesh! How did we get so bad? That's not how it used to be. >The rumors of our excellent outhouse field service would help >sales. We didn't. And the service was pretty solid through '84 or so IIRC. One of the problems was growth and the promotion of less than stellar techs to Field Service Management. The other was the "metrics" for repair time and stuff pressed down by the top front office types. Closing calls to get the numbers down was a management order after corporate went on an economy kick. We were pushed to minimize repair time, close calls, make the numbers look good -- instead of live on customer sites when intermittants happened until things straightened out. Up through 84 or so I could hang at my customer sites making sure they were well cared for. I dropped 'em DECUS game tapes, made friends. Showed 'em how to clean the drives, etc. Later it was a push to take more calls and show minimal repair time and minimum on site time... Dispatch was centralized regionally and computerized and the techs were often dispatched without their managers knowing what was going on. Earlier techs were paged by their managers who had a more hands on view -- so the managers were more out of the loop on who was doing what. At least many of us had a clue... and took care of the customers anyway. Part of the problem was DEC was selling VAX boxes in the early 1980's faster than they could hire GOOD techs. They also couldn't get folks trained fast enough for the VAX explosion in the field. They began hiring techs, running them through PDP11 new-hire training and sending 'em out to work on Vaxes... (mostly 11/780's). This was the "Digital Installation Team" in NJ. 8-) They worked us like hell and the only training was a slightly more-experienced untrained Vax installer and 100+ page binder with printouts of the diagnostic runs to guide us on installations. Real problems got real techs dispatched to help us but we learned how to fix the 11/780's. I went from newhire to Full VAX engineer with standby duty in less than 6 months. They also began pushing DECmate and terminal techs up the line way to fast to absorb all the new stuff they were seeing. (Some management at DEC began to also think that the RDC -- aka Digital Diagnostic Center -- folks could do it all and they just needed an idiot in a car to run parts. That didn't work well when there was more involved problems with larger systems and clusters. The problem was I didn't get 11/780 and VAX training for a year after that, by which time I could've taught half the course and I was already writing a VAX diag-builder DCL script to build VAXPAX diag floppies in the RT11 format using VMS Filex. (Anyone remember MCR FLX?) (I think there were upwards of 20 floppies for the 11/78[0 2 5] machines it could build.) (I did the latter during my VAX training class and the instructor was interested in getting it sent to DEC SW distribution -- but the VMS 4.x stuff eliminated FLX in favor of a non-11 compatibility mode command named exchange (no relation to the MS product of the same name so I dropped the program). >/BAH Bill ex-DEC Field Service Engineer -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Keith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 23:27:46 -0700 Organization: none Lines: 56 Message-ID: References: <70hre091nmde46i7gf4155gkdbtbes1t67@4ax.com> <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com> <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 0egkgDgso2DTZu3oFreOpA5xJbMRG/q3CXqkEGWXIL11S8Y66e User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2 (This is not a psychotic episode. It's a cleansing moment of clarity.) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178678 On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 16:16:09 -0400, Bill Pechter Carolyn Pechter wrote: > In article <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>, wrote: >>In article <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com>, >> Pete Fenelon wrote: >>>T? Rowan wrote: >>>> To get v2.0 of the story: >>>> s/IBM/Microsoft/ >>>> s/DEC/Apple/ >>> >>>Which reminds me of another old DEC joke: >>> >>>Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer with a flat tyre? >>>A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he >>> finds the flat... >>> >>>Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer whose car has run out of fuel? >>>A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he >>> finds the flat... > > I also remember: > > Q: How does a DEC Field Service Engineer fix his DECmobile... > A: Swaps out all the tires until he finds the flat. > Q: What if he swaps them all out and it still doesn't run. > A: He changes the battery since it must be a power supply problem. > >>Sheesh! How did we get so bad? That's not how it used to be. >>The rumors of our excellent outhouse field service would help >>sales. > > We didn't. And the service was pretty solid through '84 or so IIRC. > One of the problems was growth and the promotion of less than stellar > techs to Field Service Management. The other was the "metrics" for > repair time and stuff pressed down by the top front office types. I differ here. Though I speak from the "dark side" (IBM), DEC's service was horrible. They openly refused to service equipment on our test floor, until we got a senior VP of Fairchild involved, and then we had to get our service marked up through Fairchild because DEC refused our PO's. I knew then that DEC's days were numbered (refusing *cash money* from one's competator?). > Closing calls to get the numbers down was a management order after > corporate went on an economy kick. We were pushed to minimize repair > time, close calls, make the numbers look good -- instead of live on > customer sites when intermittants happened until things straightened > out. Everyone went through that. Face it, no one is paying for on-site service, much less 24/7, anymore. -- Keith ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. References: <1089211710.489908@teapot.planet.gong> <70hre091nmde46i7gf4155gkdbtbes1t67@4ax.com> <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com> <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 04 10:00:58 GMT Lines: 32 Message-ID: <40efceff$0$1180$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> X-Trace: DXC=OVfEa5SJi]5i@nX;[4^GS=0R]m=BkYWI7:6bU3OT9S9:@bBE;NDVU[6aRAVNS:^U:?I0?TaS?Lk^9>C5OJ=2C6Q9 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp.abs.net!rcn!feed3.news.rcn.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178695 In article , Rich Alderson wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >> In article <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com>, >> Pete Fenelon wrote: > >>> Or, as our fortune file used to say during a phase where one of our 780s >>> never seemed happy.... > >>> "You will meet a tall dark stranger. He is probably a DEC engineer." > >> They weren't tall. Just a couple managed to look down at me. > >> I remember the night Marlboro had an open house for something that >> I can no longer remember. I walked into a room and there was Larry >> Bird. For the first time in my life I had to move my head to >> look ^up^ at a person; it was rather disconcerting to feel small. > >So you really *are* a Valkyrie!!! > >Who's taller, you or Valdeane? I don't know. Norma Abel was also tall. I rarely paid attention to those kinds of comparisons. Although I do notice if there's a female my height in a store now. Mary Paine was very tall. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. References: <70hre091nmde46i7gf4155gkdbtbes1t67@4ax.com> <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com> <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 04 11:12:18 GMT Lines: 84 Message-ID: <40efdfb6$0$1194$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> X-Trace: DXC=1[3S2`Q7Oj2dbCMLkBe9n40R]m=BkYWI7:6bU3OT9S9:Mh]odZh5`Q5aRAVNS:^U:?6gXP0>KKnA3j_dFm32bNE7 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!feed3.news.rcn.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178700 In article , pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter Carolyn Pechter) wrote: >In article <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>, wrote: >>In article <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com>, >> Pete Fenelon wrote: >>>T? Rowan wrote: >>>> To get v2.0 of the story: >>>> s/IBM/Microsoft/ >>>> s/DEC/Apple/ >>> >>>Which reminds me of another old DEC joke: >>> >>>Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer with a flat tyre? >>>A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he >>> finds the flat... >>> >>>Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer whose car has run out of fuel? >>>A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he >>> finds the flat... > >I also remember: > >Q: How does a DEC Field Service Engineer fix his DECmobile... >A: Swaps out all the tires until he finds the flat. >Q: What if he swaps them all out and it still doesn't run. >A: He changes the battery since it must be a power supply problem. > >>Sheesh! How did we get so bad? That's not how it used to be. >>The rumors of our excellent outhouse field service would help >>sales. > >We didn't. And the service was pretty solid through '84 or so IIRC. >One of the problems was growth and the promotion of less than stellar >techs to Field Service Management. The other was the "metrics" for >repair time and stuff pressed down by the top front office types. Those fucking metrics again. At least TOPS-10 wasn't only ones those idiots picked on. I see this as a direct result of handing corporate control to the CPA-types. The one I knew had grand plans of taking over corporate control; he never had a scintilla of an idea what biz we were in. > >Closing calls to get the numbers down was a management order after >corporate went on an economy kick. Nah, that wasn't an economy kick but I know what you mean. > .. We were pushed to minimize >repair time, close calls, make the numbers look good -- instead of live >on customer sites when intermittants happened until things straightened >out. > >Up through 84 or so I could hang at my customer sites making sure they >were well cared for. I dropped 'em DECUS game tapes, made friends. >Showed 'em how to clean the drives, etc. Yup. Field service was the pre-sales force. They were the first DEC people to establish customer loyalty beliefs. > .. Later it was a push to take >more calls and show minimal repair time and minimum on site time... > >Dispatch was centralized regionally and computerized and the techs were >often dispatched without their managers knowing what was going on. >Earlier techs were paged by their managers who had a more hands on >view -- so the managers were more out of the loop on who was >doing what. And had no time management control of his group. That's just asking for trouble. > >At least many of us had a clue... and took care of the customers anyway. We tried. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter Carolyn Pechter) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Date: 11 Jul 2004 04:31:08 -0400 Organization: Lakewood MicroSystems Lines: 89 Message-ID: References: <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell.monmouth.com Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!feeder2.ecngs.de!217.73.144.44.MISMATCH!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!63.218.45.11.MISMATCH!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.monmouth.com!shell.monmouth.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178747 In article , Keith wrote: >On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 16:16:09 -0400, Bill Pechter Carolyn Pechter wrote: > >> In article <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>, wrote: >>>In article <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com>, >>> Pete Fenelon wrote: >>>>T? Rowan wrote: >>>>> To get v2.0 of the story: >>>>> s/IBM/Microsoft/ >>>>> s/DEC/Apple/ >>>> >>>Sheesh! How did we get so bad? That's not how it used to be. >>>The rumors of our excellent outhouse field service would help >>>sales. >> >> We didn't. And the service was pretty solid through '84 or so IIRC. >> One of the problems was growth and the promotion of less than stellar >> techs to Field Service Management. The other was the "metrics" for >> repair time and stuff pressed down by the top front office types. > >I differ here. Though I speak from the "dark side" (IBM), DEC's service >was horrible. They openly refused to service equipment on our test floor, >until we got a senior VP of Fairchild involved, and then we had to get our >service marked up through Fairchild because DEC refused our PO's. I knew >then that DEC's days were numbered (refusing *cash money* from one's >competator?). I never saw that. I left DEC for a division of Eaton doing government military contracting. They also did third-party service contracts against DEC and got later purchased by TRW... Since my site was Eaton-owned equipment and not under maintenance by their third party guys I just had DEC called in as support when I had a big problem with an 11/750 that required the Remote Diagnostic board to diagnose... If I was under third-party maintenance they'd have had to have the owner of the equpiment make the service call, since they would not act as support for a competitor. I've seen this from both sides -- as a DEC guy, a third party guy and the equipment owner. Never had any of the problems you mention. DEC did and would refuse third party support requests by Techs competing with us. Why would you bail out the competition. (We'd usually try to win the contract back after one of those fiascos)... I KNOW a GE tech used one of the DEC maintained machines at one site as a source of spare parts for the remainder of the place. I just couldn't prove it. > >> Closing calls to get the numbers down was a management order after >> corporate went on an economy kick. We were pushed to minimize repair >> time, close calls, make the numbers look good -- instead of live on >> customer sites when intermittants happened until things straightened >> out. > >Everyone went through that. Face it, no one is paying for on-site >service, much less 24/7, anymore. > Really. You should see what DELL does for my internet colocated stuff. 24/7 warranty support 4 hour response -- sounds like DECservice days to me. In house and now at home I picked up contracts to just allow parts swap. I'm a better tech, IMHO and I can find my own house. When there's enough $$$ involved you sign the contract. Or keep in-house parts... Not everything's a $500 pc. We've got a 200 tape library with 8 drives... fiber chanel connect... clustered netapp filers... All on support. >-- > Keith Bill -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Niklas Karlsson Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns References: <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (Darwin) Date: 11 Jul 2004 10:31:14 GMT Lines: 28 Message-ID: <40f116f2$0$7805$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk> Organization: Zen Internet NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.69.19.230 X-Trace: 1089541874 cockburn.zen.co.uk 7805 82.69.19.230:51278 X-Complaints-To: abuse@zen.co.uk Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!dedekind.zen.co.uk!zen.net.uk!fuller.zen.co.uk!cockburn.zen.co.uk.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178753 In article , Bill Pechter Carolyn Pechter wrote: > In article , > Keith wrote: >>Everyone went through that. Face it, no one is paying for on-site >>service, much less 24/7, anymore. > > Really. You should see what DELL does for my internet colocated > stuff. 24/7 warranty support 4 hour response -- sounds like > DECservice days to me. A big part of my job (for a major vendor of networking equipment) is to coordinate the on-site support for our 24/7 4-hour customers. Mind you, the on-site techs aren't in-house but sourced from a third party. Often we don't trust them without supervision by phone, and that supervision is done by the likes of me. :-) Incidentally, HP is on our list of third-party maintenance vendors, and yes, some of their techs are from DEC's field service org. The US probably has the highest volume of field calls, but I get plenty in many other parts of the world as well. This can get interesting with language barriers and other sources of confusion... Niklas -- "My rule of thumb is to avoid drinking and eating anything where the label digs deep into the Unicode character set. ISO-8859-1 is dangerous enough." -- Peter Corlett ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. References: <1089211710.489908@teapot.planet.gong> <70hre091nmde46i7gf4155gkdbtbes1t67@4ax.com> <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com> <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <2lcm5tFb0v7cU1@uni-berlin.de> X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Date: Sun, 11 Jul 04 11:06:08 GMT Lines: 42 Message-ID: <40f12fce$0$1167$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> X-Trace: DXC=_Xd8FcHhKPbhSICG3bEfjg0R]m=BkYWIg:6bU3OT9S9jfP6kH@?JELkaRAVNS:^U:oo@AI1>lP4Ca X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!diablo.voicenet.com!nntp.abs.net!rcn!feed3.news.rcn.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178768 In article <2lcm5tFb0v7cU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Hans Vlems" wrote: > > schreef in bericht >news:40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com... >> In article <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com>, >> Pete Fenelon wrote: >> >T? Rowan wrote: >> >> To get v2.0 of the story: >> >> s/IBM/Microsoft/ >> >> s/DEC/Apple/ >> > >> >Which reminds me of another old DEC joke: >> > >> >Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer with a flat tyre? >> >A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he >> > finds the flat... >> > >> >Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer whose car has run out of fuel? >> >A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he >> > finds the flat... >> >> Sheesh! How did we get so bad? That's not how it used to be. >> The rumors of our excellent outhouse field service would help >> sales. >> > >DEC field service in the Netherlands always had an excellent reputation. >Like >any other organization it may have had its weak spots, if so I've never met >them. >Excellent in terms of getting there in time, knowing what they're doing and >understanding why the customer behind him is wringing hands, sweating and >with a look of sheer panic in his eyes. Does that look of panic ever happen anymore? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "Hans Vlems" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:21:22 +0200 Lines: 35 Message-ID: <2lcm5tFb0v7cU1@uni-berlin.de> References: <1089211710.489908@teapot.planet.gong> <70hre091nmde46i7gf4155gkdbtbes1t67@4ax.com> <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com> <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de kSRfrG5wyIVhUJ0v08b1lAJg9Nx/DexgM7tpGWGtXB+87gpEtb X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178756 schreef in bericht news:40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com... > In article <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com>, > Pete Fenelon wrote: > >T? Rowan wrote: > >> To get v2.0 of the story: > >> s/IBM/Microsoft/ > >> s/DEC/Apple/ > > > >Which reminds me of another old DEC joke: > > > >Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer with a flat tyre? > >A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he > > finds the flat... > > > >Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer whose car has run out of fuel? > >A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he > > finds the flat... > > Sheesh! How did we get so bad? That's not how it used to be. > The rumors of our excellent outhouse field service would help > sales. > DEC field service in the Netherlands always had an excellent reputation. Like any other organization it may have had its weak spots, if so I've never met them. Excellent in terms of getting there in time, knowing what they're doing and understanding why the customer behind him is wringing hands, sweating and with a look of sheer panic in his eyes. ###### From: Té Rowan Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 00:22:30 +0000 Organization: Word used by Space Aliens Lines: 27 Message-ID: <5510f0ddel8aoui484v7dqjl0tm41plhrk@4ax.com> References: <1089211710.489908@teapot.planet.gong> <70hre091nmde46i7gf4155gkdbtbes1t67@4ax.com> <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com> <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp162-59.as.mi.is Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.simnet.is 1089591719 5082 217.151.162.59 (12 Jul 2004 00:21:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet-abuse@simnet.is NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 00:21:59 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!198.6.0.85!ash.uu.net!news.simnet.is!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:178796 Saith jmfbahciv@aol.com: >In article <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com>, > Pete Fenelon wrote: >>T? Rowan wrote: >>> To get v2.0 of the story: >>> s/IBM/Microsoft/ >>> s/DEC/Apple/ >> >>Which reminds me of another old DEC joke: >> >>Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer with a flat tyre? >>A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he >> finds the flat... >> >>Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer whose car has run out of fuel? >>A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he >> finds the flat... > >Sheesh! How did we get so bad? That's not how it used to be. >The rumors of our excellent outhouse field service would help >sales. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the origin of most DEC FS jokes turned out to be within DEC FS. -- Té Rowan (reynirhs@mi.is) ###### From: "Hans Vlems" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found on rec.humor.reruns Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2004 15:44:59 +0200 Lines: 78 Message-ID: <2lvd7fFgmku7U1@uni-berlin.de> References: <1089211710.489908@teapot.planet.gong> <70hre091nmde46i7gf4155gkdbtbes1t67@4ax.com> <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com> <40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <2lcm5tFb0v7cU1@uni-berlin.de> <40f12fce$0$1167$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 5D63atQU70sOXzkD0PTZRgNQngvEMfDHAG0+/BfNSYIpZIy1hT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:179124 schreef in bericht news:40f12fce$0$1167$61fed72c@news.rcn.com... > In article <2lcm5tFb0v7cU1@uni-berlin.de>, > "Hans Vlems" wrote: > > > > schreef in bericht > >news:40ee7873$0$1188$61fed72c@news.rcn.com... > >> In article <82qlcc.h6m.ln@fenelon.com>, > >> Pete Fenelon wrote: > >> >T? Rowan wrote: > >> >> To get v2.0 of the story: > >> >> s/IBM/Microsoft/ > >> >> s/DEC/Apple/ > >> > > >> >Which reminds me of another old DEC joke: > >> > > >> >Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer with a flat tyre? > >> >A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he > >> > finds the flat... > >> > > >> >Q: How do you spot a DEC engineer whose car has run out of fuel? > >> >A: He's the guy by the side of the road changing every tyre until he > >> > finds the flat... > >> > >> Sheesh! How did we get so bad? That's not how it used to be. > >> The rumors of our excellent outhouse field service would help > >> sales. > >> > > > >DEC field service in the Netherlands always had an excellent reputation. > >Like > >any other organization it may have had its weak spots, if so I've never > met > >them. > >Excellent in terms of getting there in time, knowing what they're doing > and > >understanding why the customer behind him is wringing hands, sweating and > >with a look of sheer panic in his eyes. > > Does that look of panic ever happen anymore? > > /BAH > > Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. Rarely, hardware today is very reliable. In 1990 I worked for Fuji in the Netherlands, which was and still is, a large VMS site. About 50 VAX and 10 PDP-11 systems meant a visit from our friendly field service guy every four to six weeks. The VAX 8350 proved very reliable, they ran up more than 1000 days uptime and the later VAX 6000 models were even better. The PDP 11/44 was also rather reliable though less so than the 8350's. Network problems are probably now the main reason for panic at management quarters. Which is understandable. A hardware problem may be difficult to trace and fix at times, however, extreme measures like a box swap would cure the problem. A severe network problem is usually a lot nastier: the result of long term neglect ("Why do we need netwerk maintenance?"), or bad design ("Why spend time on design if it works straight out of the box?") , or reduction of maintenance slots ("Why fix a problem we're obviously not having here on site?"). And of course networks not only connect systems for information flow, networks also handle problem flows without discrimination. If a certain protocol can bring down one system, no reason why it can't, in time, break others as well. In those cases the panic is still there. And it should... Hans