From: Walter Bushell Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: DEC 10 20 starting date Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:35:38 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC Lines: 2 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: user-0cdfnfg.cable.mindspring.com X-Trace: reader2.panix.com 1081982137 19540 24.215.221.240 (14 Apr 2004 22:35:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:35:37 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.4 (PPC Mac OS X) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!proto Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:171094 What was it and what happened to make it significant. I was told it had significance when I was working with the two systems. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. References: X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 04 10:36:12 GMT Lines: 12 Message-ID: <407e8277$0$2782$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> X-Trace: DXC=1mFCJg[mO637Z]LFX_=\P<0R]m=BkYWI7:6bU3OT9S9:eo;I[;l\`M5aRAVNS:^U:?:Tm0Ln5I8Q<5[1QjHcUM47 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.tu-darmstadt.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp.abs.net!rcn!feed3.news.rcn.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:171169 In article , Walter Bushell wrote: >What was it and what happened to make it significant. I was told it had >significance when I was working with the two systems. I don't know what you are talking about :-). Where or how did you encounter the term "starting date"? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: John Everett Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Message-ID: <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> References: <407e8277$0$2782$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 29 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:12:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.86.104.172 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net 1082041949 209.86.104.172 (Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:12:29 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:12:29 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!newsfeed.frii.net!140.99.99.194.MISMATCH!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net.POSTED!7331c34a!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:171184 On Thu, 15 Apr 04 10:36:12 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >In article , > Walter Bushell wrote: >>What was it and what happened to make it significant. I was told it had >>significance when I was working with the two systems. > >I don't know what you are talking about :-). Where or how >did you encounter the term "starting date"? The PDP-10 Monitor maintained a 36 bit Universal Date Time. The right 18 bits were in fractions of a day and the left half word was days. That meant there was room for 262143 days. The initiation date (DATE::==0) was November 17, 1858. ISTR the date had something to do with some treaty. I thought it was the Treaty of Ghent, but can't find any reference to Ghent in COMMON, S, or CLOCK1. A google search shows the Treaty of Ghent was signed in 1814, so that's probably not it. Perhaps I can get some help here. The Monitor also maintained a 12-bit date in file RIBs. The origin of this date was January 1, 1964, and it was counted in days. The 4095 days ran out in 1975, thus precipitating the great DATE75 crisis. another three bit field was found in the RIB to contain the overflow. After recovering from the first overflow in 1975, the original 12-bit field has overflowed two more times. Hard to believe. :-) jeverett3earthlinknet http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3 ###### From: John Everett Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Message-ID: References: <407e8277$0$2782$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:34:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.86.104.172 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net 1082043242 209.86.104.172 (Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:34:02 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:34:02 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news2.euro.net!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net.POSTED!7331c34a!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:171194 On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:12:29 GMT, I wrote: >On Thu, 15 Apr 04 10:36:12 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >>In article , >> Walter Bushell wrote: >>>What was it and what happened to make it significant. I was told it had >>>significance when I was working with the two systems. >> >>I don't know what you are talking about :-). Where or how >>did you encounter the term "starting date"? > >The PDP-10 Monitor maintained a 36 bit Universal Date Time. The right >18 bits were in fractions of a day and the left half word was days. >That meant there was room for 262143 days. The initiation date >(DATE::==0) was November 17, 1858. Further research shows that November 17, 1858 is the base of the Modified Julian Day system. For more information see: http://tinyurl.com/388nv jeverett3earthlinknet http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3 ###### From: Roland Hutchinson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:36:45 -0400 Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <407e8277$0$2782$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-151-198-156-191.nwrk.east.verizon.net (151.198.156.191) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1082043406 3550669 I 151.198.156.191 ([99522]) User-Agent: KNode/0.7.2 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!neupina.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!pool-151-198-156-191.nwrk.east.verizon.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:171197 In article <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> on Thursday 15 April 2004 11:12, John Everett wrote: > The PDP-10 Monitor maintained a 36 bit Universal Date Time. The right > 18 bits were in fractions of a day and the left half word was days. > That meant there was room for 262143 days. The initiation date > (DATE::==0) was November 17, 1858. > > ISTR the date had something to do with some treaty. I thought it was > the Treaty of Ghent, but can't find any reference to Ghent in COMMON, > S, or CLOCK1. A google search shows the Treaty of Ghent was signed in > 1814, so that's probably not it. Perhaps I can get some help here. It's Julian Day 2400000.5, and therefore a round number used as the basis for the Modified Julian Date. Have a look here (turned up by googling November 17 1848): http://vms.tuwien.ac.at/info/humour/vms-base-time-origin.txt Note for the chronologically unintiated: The Julian Day has nothing to do with the Julian Calendar. -- Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. ###### From: iddw@hotmail.com (Dave Hansen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:22:28 GMT Lines: 48 Message-ID: <407eb5a3.155988822@News.individual.net> References: <407e8277$0$2782$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.nartron.com (216.65.187.224) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1082045849 3560991 I 216.65.187.224 ([97677]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!mail.nartron.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:171208 On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:12:29 GMT, John Everett wrote: [...] >The PDP-10 Monitor maintained a 36 bit Universal Date Time. The right >18 bits were in fractions of a day and the left half word was days. >That meant there was room for 262143 days. The initiation date >(DATE::==0) was November 17, 1858. > >ISTR the date had something to do with some treaty. I thought it was >the Treaty of Ghent, but can't find any reference to Ghent in COMMON, >S, or CLOCK1. A google search shows the Treaty of Ghent was signed in >1814, so that's probably not it. Perhaps I can get some help here. Googling on "november 17 1858" turned up http://parris.josh.com.au/humour/work/17Nov1858.shtml as the seventh link. It contained the following: "Why OpenVMS regards November 17, 1858 as the beginning of time... The modified Julian date adopted by SAO (Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory) for satellite tracking is Julian Day 2400000, which turns out to be November 17, 1858. SAO started tracking satellites with an 8K (nonvirtual) 36-bit IBM 704 in 1957 when Sputnik went into orbit. The Julian day was 2435839 on January 1, 1957. This is 11225377 octal, which was too big to fit into an 18-bit field. With only 8K of memory, the 14 bits left over by keeping the Julian date in its own 36-bit word would have been wasted. They also needed the fraction of the current day (for which 18 bits gave enough accuracy), so it was decided to keep the number of days in the left 18 bits and the fraction of a day in the right 18 bits of one word. Eighteen bits allows the truncated Julian day (the SAO day) to grow as large as 262143, which from November 17, 1858, allowed for 7 centuries. Possibly, the date could only grow as large as 131071 (using 17 bits), but this still covers 3 centuries and leaves the possibility of representing negative time. The 1858 date preceded the oldest star catalogue in use at SAO, which also avoided having to use negative time in any of the satellite tracking calculations." Regards, -=Dave -- Change is inevitable, progress is not. ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: <407e8277$0$2782$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 44 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:37:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1082057873 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:37:53 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:37:53 MDT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!167.206.3.103.MISMATCH!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:171224 On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:36:45 -0400 in alt.folklore.computers, Roland Hutchinson wrote: >In article <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> on Thursday 15 April >2004 11:12, John Everett wrote: > >> The PDP-10 Monitor maintained a 36 bit Universal Date Time. The right >> 18 bits were in fractions of a day and the left half word was days. >> That meant there was room for 262143 days. The initiation date >> (DATE::==0) was November 17, 1858. >> >> ISTR the date had something to do with some treaty. I thought it was >> the Treaty of Ghent, but can't find any reference to Ghent in COMMON, >> S, or CLOCK1. A google search shows the Treaty of Ghent was signed in >> 1814, so that's probably not it. Perhaps I can get some help here. > >It's Julian Day 2400000.5, and therefore a round number used as the basis >for the Modified Julian Date. ObNitPick: ^^^^ Day, not date; for more confusion see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_day The .5 day correction is because the Modified Julian Day defines civil days starting at midnight, whereas the Julian Day defines astronomical days starting at noon. >Have a look here (turned up by googling November 17 1848): >http://vms.tuwien.ac.at/info/humour/vms-base-time-origin.txt > >Note for the chronologically unintiated: The Julian Day has nothing to do >with the Julian Calendar. ObNitPick: Except the Julian Day origin is defined as days since noon on the Julian *date* January 1, 4713 BCE (astronomical year -4712), on the proleptic Julian calendar, which assumes 1BCE (year 0) and every fourth preceding year was a leap year. And according to a Latin quote from Joseph Scaliger in the wiki article, this was the reason he called it the Julian Day, and not, as reported elsewhere, after his father Julius. -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: Roland Hutchinson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:56:20 -0400 Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <407e8277$0$2782$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-151-198-156-191.nwrk.east.verizon.net (151.198.156.191) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1082058982 3507783 I 151.198.156.191 ([99522]) User-Agent: KNode/0.7.2 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!neupina.switch.ch!switch.ch!feeder2.ecngs.de!217.73.144.44.MISMATCH!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!pool-151-198-156-191.nwrk.east.verizon.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:171226 In article on Thursday 15 April 2004 15:37, Brian Inglis wrote: > ObNitPick: Except the Julian Day origin is defined as days since noon > on the Julian *date* January 1, 4713 BCE (astronomical year -4712), on > the proleptic Julian calendar, which assumes 1BCE (year 0) and every > fourth preceding year was a leap year. And according to a Latin quote > from Joseph Scaliger in the wiki article, this was the reason he > called it the Julian Day, and not, as reported elsewhere, after his > father Julius. Very good nit. Now, for extra credit, explain the similarly close connection between Gregorian chant and the Gregorian calendar. -- Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: <407e8277$0$2782$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:29:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1082064572 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:29:32 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:29:32 MDT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news2.euro.net!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:171234 On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:56:20 -0400 in alt.folklore.computers, Roland Hutchinson wrote: >In article on Thursday 15 April >2004 15:37, Brian Inglis wrote: > >> ObNitPick: Except the Julian Day origin is defined as days since noon >> on the Julian *date* January 1, 4713 BCE (astronomical year -4712), on >> the proleptic Julian calendar, which assumes 1BCE (year 0) and every >> fourth preceding year was a leap year. And according to a Latin quote >> from Joseph Scaliger in the wiki article, this was the reason he >> called it the Julian Day, and not, as reported elsewhere, after his >> father Julius. > >Very good nit. > >Now, for extra credit, explain the similarly close connection between >Gregorian chant and the Gregorian calendar. The latter pope (XIII of that name) who sponsored the calendrical reform took his ecclesiastical name from the former (I of that name), who was given credit for the chant, despite it having been developed by Carolingian Frankish monks a couple of centuries after he died. I kind of like the name carols or franks better than chants myself! One could even establish a link between the Julian and Gregorian calendars by noting that keeping and announcing the calendar was the responsibility of the early Roman pontiffs, and the reform was requested and promoted by the later Roman (Catholic) pontiffs. However, the early pontiffs fell down on the Julian reforms by not following the spec with leap years every *fourth* year, but having leap years every *four* (inclusive Roman) years (every third year in our terms) and having to be corrected by Augustus skipping a bunch of leap years until the calendar was resynchronized with the seasons. The later pontiff did much better with his dropping of ten days to resynchronize the calendar to the seasons and dropping 3/100 leap years to keep it in sync for a few millenia. -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Date: 16 Apr 2004 01:52:50 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <407e8277$0$2782$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> <407eb5a3.155988822@News.individual.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: smeagol.ncf.ca X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1082080370 29620 134.117.136.48 (16 Apr 2004 01:52:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Apr 2004 01:52:50 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@smeagol.ncf.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:171261 Dave Hansen (iddw@hotmail.com) writes: > > Googling on "november 17 1858" turned up > http://parris.josh.com.au/humour/work/17Nov1858.shtml > as the seventh link. It contained the following: > > "Why OpenVMS regards November 17, 1858 as the beginning of time... > > The modified Julian date adopted by SAO (Smithsonian Astrophysical > Observatory) for satellite tracking is Julian Day 2400000, which > turns out to be November 17, 1858. ... And to think that Intel missed out these important constants and concepts when designing the 80287 and up chip! All this date math that we must do for file timestamps could've been like five assembler instructions long, if only someone thought about it. B-) ###### From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Date: 16 Apr 2004 05:57:19 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <407e8277$0$2782$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> <407eb5a3.155988822@News.individual.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 170.121.15.35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1082120240 14658 127.0.0.1 (16 Apr 2004 12:57:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:57:20 +0000 (UTC) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.tu-darmstadt.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.glorb.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:171301 ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) wrote in message news:... > Dave Hansen (iddw@hotmail.com) writes: > > > > Googling on "november 17 1858" turned up > > http://parris.josh.com.au/humour/work/17Nov1858.shtml > > as the seventh link. It contained the following: > > > > "Why OpenVMS regards November 17, 1858 as the beginning of time... > > > > The modified Julian date adopted by SAO (Smithsonian Astrophysical > > Observatory) for satellite tracking is Julian Day 2400000, which > > turns out to be November 17, 1858. > ... > > And to think that Intel missed out these important constants and > concepts when designing the 80287 and up chip! All this date math > that we must do for file timestamps could've been like five assembler > instructions long, if only someone thought about it. > > B-) Of course, the 17-Nov-1858 standard fails to mention leap seconds, which have been occasionally inserted since 1972. Try programming all future leap seconds into your FPU! My favorite part of the leap second business is the name of the organization responsible for determining when to insert them: The International Earth Rotation Service. Now *that's* a job with a lot of responsibility ... cut off their funding and the sun stops rising and setting. Or would it continue to do so, just once per year? That's the job of the Earth Revolution Service, I suppose! Obligatory "Atomic Time Wristwatch" link: http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/index.htm Tim. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Date: 16 Apr 04 08:13:02 -0800 Organization: http://newsguy.com Lines: 29 Message-ID: <1250.602T129T4933846@kltpzyxm.invalid> References: <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-658.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.linkpendium.com!border1.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!border2.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!129.250.175.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:171340 In article Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.Invalid (Brian Inglis) writes: >On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:56:20 -0400 in alt.folklore.computers, >Roland Hutchinson wrote: > >>Now, for extra credit, explain the similarly close connection between >>Gregorian chant and the Gregorian calendar. Nobody asks me for the date anymore - it takes too long. But then, ever since we watched "Finding Nemo" we've been going around imitating Dory's attempts at whale-speak too. >The latter pope (XIII of that name) who sponsored the calendrical >reform took his ecclesiastical name from the former (I of that name), >who was given credit for the chant, despite it having been developed >by Carolingian Frankish monks a couple of centuries after he died. > >I kind of like the name carols or franks better than chants myself! "Carols" has too much of a Christmas connotation now. And as for franks... I'll have two with mustard, please. Hold the onions. -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign! ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. References: <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> <1250.602T129T4933846@kltpzyxm.invalid> X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Date: Sat, 17 Apr 04 10:48:44 GMT Lines: 44 Message-ID: <4081287d$0$16458$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> X-Trace: DXC=FX^20Q_2EViF^Q^Jd0R]m=BkYWIg:6bU3OT9S9joXCU`E_9G;k4M]OJWSTM>lOO;, "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >In article >Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.Invalid (Brian Inglis) writes: > >>On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:56:20 -0400 in alt.folklore.computers, >>Roland Hutchinson wrote: >> >>>Now, for extra credit, explain the similarly close connection between >>>Gregorian chant and the Gregorian calendar. > >Nobody asks me for the date anymore - it takes too long. The only way I know what the date is these days (remember, I don't go to work so a knowledge of today's date isn't a living requirement) is by my "backup" ritual of posts I've read. The unread posts file is copied to FOO.xxx, where xxx=SUN,MON,TUE,WED,THU,FRI,SAT or FOO if I smell a failure coming. From that I can usually figure out the date. >But then, ever since we watched "Finding Nemo" we've been >going around imitating Dory's attempts at whale-speak too. I got a new-age flavored CD of that. I played it while JMF died. It seemed appropriate at the time. > >>The latter pope (XIII of that name) who sponsored the calendrical >>reform took his ecclesiastical name from the former (I of that name), >>who was given credit for the chant, despite it having been developed >>by Carolingian Frankish monks a couple of centuries after he died. >> >>I kind of like the name carols or franks better than chants myself! > >"Carols" has too much of a Christmas connotation now. And as for >franks... I'll have two with mustard, please. Hold the onions. Oh, no! Everything, including saurkraut(sp?), chili and cheese. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Message-ID: <4082434D.5FFEBBE4@comcast.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@nospam.plano.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date References: <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> <1250.602T129T4933846@kltpzyxm.invalid> <4081287d$0$16458$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.1.126.198 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s04 1082271916 24.1.126.198 (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 07:05:16 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 07:05:16 GMT Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 07:05:16 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.ipv6.iphh.net!iphh.net!news0.de.colt.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!newsfeed.news2me.com!wn52feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s04.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:171502 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > The only way I know what the date is these days (remember, > I don't go to work so a knowledge of today's date isn't > a living requirement) is by my "backup" ritual of posts > I've read. The unread posts file is copied to FOO.xxx, > where xxx=SUN,MON,TUE,WED,THU,FRI,SAT or FOO if I smell > a failure coming. From that I can usually figure out the > date. > Find yourself a digital clock that will display the day of the week. That is, if you have an aversion to paper calendars or the Farmer's Almanac. Also, there is a simple little algorithm called Zeller's Congruence that will tell you the day of the week given the date. ISTR that the digital clock on Windows 3.1 can display the day of the week also...am I becoming delusional here??? -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock"@sonnic.net> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:59:08 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <4083326C.6B24B8ED@sonnic.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <407e8277$0$2782$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> <407eb5a3.155988822@News.individual.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 45 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!neupina.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-04!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:171601 Tim Shoppa wrote: > > ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) wrote in message news:... > > Dave Hansen (iddw@hotmail.com) writes: > > > > > > Googling on "november 17 1858" turned up > > > http://parris.josh.com.au/humour/work/17Nov1858.shtml > > > as the seventh link. It contained the following: > > > > > > "Why OpenVMS regards November 17, 1858 as the beginning of time... > > > > > > The modified Julian date adopted by SAO (Smithsonian Astrophysical > > > Observatory) for satellite tracking is Julian Day 2400000, which > > > turns out to be November 17, 1858. > > ... > > > > And to think that Intel missed out these important constants and > > concepts when designing the 80287 and up chip! All this date math > > that we must do for file timestamps could've been like five assembler > > instructions long, if only someone thought about it. > > > > B-) > > Of course, the 17-Nov-1858 standard fails to mention leap seconds, which have > been occasionally inserted since 1972. Try programming all future > leap seconds into your FPU! > > My favorite part of the leap second business is the name of the organization > responsible for determining when to insert them: The International Earth > Rotation Service. Now *that's* a job with a lot of responsibility > ... cut off their funding and the sun stops rising and setting. Or > would it continue to do so, just once per year? That's the job of > the Earth Revolution Service, I suppose! > > Obligatory "Atomic Time Wristwatch" link: > > http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/index.htm > > Tim. My HeathKit GC-1000 (c. 1980) has dip switches to incorporate propagation delay from Ft. Collins. It claims an accuracy of ± 5ms, IIRC. Bill "wildly inaccurate, by comparison" Turlock ###### From: Julien Oster Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Date: 02 May 2004 05:59:22 +0200 Organization: FRODOID.ORG Lines: 15 Sender: fuzzy@killer.ninja.frodoid.org Message-ID: <87y8obmqcl.fsf@killer.ninja.frodoid.org> References: <407e8277$0$2782$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> <407eb5a3.155988822@News.individual.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-82-135-0-190.mnet-online.de (82.135.0.190) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1083470362 18445818 I 82.135.0.190 ([5374]) User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!ppp-82-135-0-190.mnet-online.DE!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:173139 iddw@hotmail.com (Dave Hansen) writes: Hello Dave, > SAO started tracking satellites with an 8K (nonvirtual) 36-bit IBM Well, I *bet* it was non-virtual if it just had 8K, at least if your "processes" or whatever should have their virtual address spaces assigned to should be bigger than some bytes... I'd like to see the page tables for an 8K machine, though ;-) (Or am I confusing the term "virtual"?) Julien ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. References: <407e8277$0$2782$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> <407eb5a3.155988822@News.individual.net> <87y8obmqcl.fsf@killer.ninja.frodoid.org> X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Date: Sun, 02 May 04 10:31:45 GMT Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4094eba2$0$3048$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> X-Trace: DXC=_2\jf2Zl\IgFVUd7_<1i0l0R]m=BkYWIg:6bU3OT9S9jVk4MPAXjZWda;EOPEcF]8dW2T5d1hh8:a X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!rcn!feed3.news.rcn.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:173159 In article <87y8obmqcl.fsf@killer.ninja.frodoid.org>, Julien Oster wrote: >iddw@hotmail.com (Dave Hansen) writes: > >Hello Dave, > >> SAO started tracking satellites with an 8K (nonvirtual) 36-bit IBM > >Well, I *bet* it was non-virtual if it just had 8K, at least if your >"processes" or whatever should have their virtual address spaces >assigned to should be bigger than some bytes... > >I'd like to see the page tables for an 8K machine, though ;-) > >(Or am I confusing the term "virtual"?) I would think so. Virtual was a method to address a larger memory space than physical. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Peter Flass User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC 10 20 starting date References: <407e8277$0$2782$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <137t705autr080jupis68pfhve1c4931oq@4ax.com> <407eb5a3.155988822@News.individual.net> <87y8obmqcl.fsf@killer.ninja.frodoid.org> In-Reply-To: <87y8obmqcl.fsf@killer.ninja.frodoid.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 11:31:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.194.63.80 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.nyroc.rr.com 1083497494 24.194.63.80 (Sun, 02 May 2004 07:31:34 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 07:31:34 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-rtr.nyroc.rr.com!news-out.nyroc.rr.com!twister.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:173156 Julien Oster wrote: > iddw@hotmail.com (Dave Hansen) writes: > > Hello Dave, > > >> SAO started tracking satellites with an 8K (nonvirtual) 36-bit IBM > > > Well, I *bet* it was non-virtual if it just had 8K, at least if your > "processes" or whatever should have their virtual address spaces > assigned to should be bigger than some bytes... > > I'd like to see the page tables for an 8K machine, though ;-) > Bank-switched, 1k per bank.