From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: 9-track tape problem Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.4 (Linux) Lines: 13 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:04:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.76.206 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1072973049 206.146.76.206 (Thu, 01 Jan 2004 10:04:09 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 10:04:09 CST Organization: Onvoy Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!priapus.visi.com!orange.octanews.net!news.octanews.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!jmaynard Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159039 If anyone knows how to deal with this problem, the folks here surely should. I have a Qualstar 3412S 9-track drive that I use to read old IBM software tapes. It works great most of the time (though not so well on 800 BPI tapes), but on some tapes, it has a strange problem: the tape appears to stick to the read/write head. This is accompanied by a squeaking noise as the drive valiantly tries to drag the tape across anyway, and more than a few I/O errors. What do I do about this? Do I need a new head (BIG $, if I can even get one, never mind getting it installed and aligned)? Is there something I can do to alleviate the problem? It only happens on some tapes; others work just fine with no sticking at all. ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 12:37:44 -0800 (PST) Organization: Spies In the Wire Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: spies.com X-Trace: 1 Jan 2004 12:47:27 -0800, spies.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!unknown!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159089 From article , by jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard): > If anyone knows how to deal with this problem, the folks here surely should. > > I have a Qualstar 3412S 9-track drive that I use to read old IBM software > tapes. It works great most of the time (though not so well on 800 BPI > tapes), but on some tapes, it has a strange problem: the tape appears to > stick to the read/write head. This is accompanied by a squeaking noise as > the drive valiantly tries to drag the tape across anyway, and more than a > few I/O errors. > > What do I do about this? Do I need a new head (BIG $, if I can even get one, > never mind getting it installed and aligned)? Is there something I can do to > alleviate the problem? It only happens on some tapes; others work just fine > with no sticking at all. Early 80's Memorex/BASF tapes most likely. The problem is with the tape binder. Early 80's formulations in particular have a problem with the polymer separating into lighter molecules with exposure to humidity, which migrate to the surface of the tape. They adhere to the surface of the head, making it sticky. Temporary solutions will sometimes work, like baking the tape for 6 hours at around 120deg. If it is a tape you only will try reading once, I've had some luck with a q-tip of head cleaning solution just before the tape cleaner to keep the head slightly lubricated, but this also softens the binder making the problem much worse if you try to read it a second time. More details can be found, along with a bibliography in: "Tribology and Mechanics of Magnetic Storage Devices" Second Edition by Bhushan esp the chapter "Role of Chemical Properties in Magnetic Tapes" ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 29 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 20:52:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1072990334 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 01 Jan 2004 13:52:14 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 13:52:14 MST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159092 On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:04:09 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: >If anyone knows how to deal with this problem, the folks here surely should. > >I have a Qualstar 3412S 9-track drive that I use to read old IBM software >tapes. It works great most of the time (though not so well on 800 BPI >tapes), but on some tapes, it has a strange problem: the tape appears to >stick to the read/write head. This is accompanied by a squeaking noise as >the drive valiantly tries to drag the tape across anyway, and more than a >few I/O errors. > >What do I do about this? Do I need a new head (BIG $, if I can even get one, >never mind getting it installed and aligned)? Is there something I can do to >alleviate the problem? It only happens on some tapes; others work just fine >with no sticking at all. Have you tried / can you retension (ffwd-rew) the magtapes without touching the heads? Maybe look for a used magtape cleaner which would allow you to do this offline? Wouldn't actually use it for cleaning, as "cleaned" magtapes seemed to get more unrecoverable read failures than "dirty" magtapes. -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem References: Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.4 (Linux) Lines: 53 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 21:17:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.76.206 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1072991866 206.146.76.206 (Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:17:46 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:17:46 CST Organization: Onvoy Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!priapus.visi.com!orange.octanews.net!news.octanews.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!jmaynard Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159096 On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 12:37:44 -0800 (PST), Al Kossow wrote: >From article , by jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard): >> I have a Qualstar 3412S 9-track drive that I use to read old IBM software >> tapes. It works great most of the time (though not so well on 800 BPI >> tapes), but on some tapes, it has a strange problem: the tape appears to >> stick to the read/write head. This is accompanied by a squeaking noise as >> the drive valiantly tries to drag the tape across anyway, and more than a >> few I/O errors. >Early 80's Memorex/BASF tapes most likely. Bingo: the two that prompted this post are Memorex MRX IV and MRX V from about that era. >The problem is with the tape binder. Early 80's formulations in particular >have a problem with the polymer separating into lighter molecules with >exposure to humidity, which migrate to the surface of the tape. They adhere >to the surface of the head, making it sticky. Oh, great. These have been in air-conditioned storage for almost their entire life, but have been transported around Houston. How much exposure to humidity does it take? It does seem like this is the problem, though, as it's behaving like the same kind of sticking that allows those little plastic strips to stick to the tape. This says that I need to clean the head after encountering this problem, as well. >Temporary solutions will sometimes work, like baking the tape for 6 hours at >around 120deg. Have to see if my oven will go that low, and try it with one tape that's having the problem first - hopefully, not one of the more significant ones... >If it is a tape you only will try reading once, I've had some >luck with a q-tip of head cleaning solution just before the tape cleaner to >keep the head slightly lubricated, but this also softens the binder making >the problem much worse if you try to read it a second time. Erf. I can't do that with this collection, as the tapes will go back to their owner when I'm done. I've been using isopropyl alcohol for cleaning...is that the solution you're using, or something more specific? Where can I get some, if that's a better idea? >More details can be found, along with a bibliography in: >"Tribology and Mechanics of Magnetic Storage Devices" Second Edition >by Bhushan esp the chapter "Role of Chemical Properties in Magnetic Tapes" Hm. Have to go looking for this one. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. References: X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 04 10:48:59 GMT Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3ff55dc6$0$4746$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.59.181.54 X-Trace: 1073044935 reader3.news.rcn.net 4746 208.59.181.54:1027 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!rcn!feed3.news.rcn.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159158 In article , jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: >Have to see if my oven will go that low, ... Try measuring how hot the oven will get with just the light on. I use mine for bread rising and the bulb generates enough heat for that; it also helps that the oven is tight. /BAH /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: arargh401NOSPAM@NOW.AT.arargh.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 06:07:13 -0600 Organization: Not Really! Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4knavvc3sinlgfpee1ql9k0p7q2ro7mpqf@4ax.com> References: <3ff55dc6$0$4746$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tcr3.dynip.ripco.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: e250.ripco.com 1073045141 4800 209.100.226.3 (2 Jan 2004 12:05:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ripco.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 12:05:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!tdsnet-transit!newspeer.tds.net!gail.ripco.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159159 On Fri, 02 Jan 04 10:48:59 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >In article , > jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: > > >>Have to see if my oven will go that low, ... > >Try measuring how hot the oven will get with just the light >on. I use mine for bread rising and the bulb generates enough >heat for that; it also helps that the oven is tight. Also, if you have an old fashioned oven with a pilot light, they tend to stay warm. Or, at least mine does. -- Arargh401 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html To reply by email, remove the garbage from the reply address. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. References: <3ff55dc6$0$4746$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <4knavvc3sinlgfpee1ql9k0p7q2ro7mpqf@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 04 13:35:27 GMT Lines: 37 Message-ID: <3ff584c9$0$6786$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.172.97.107 X-Trace: 1073054922 reader3.news.rcn.net 6786 207.172.97.107:1027 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!rcn!feed3.news.rcn.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159177 In article , jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: >On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 06:07:13 -0600, arargh401NOSPAM@NOW.AT.arargh.com > wrote: >>On Fri, 02 Jan 04 10:48:59 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>>In article , >>> jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: >>>>Have to see if my oven will go that low, ... >>>Try measuring how hot the oven will get with just the light >>>on. I use mine for bread rising and the bulb generates enough >>>heat for that; it also helps that the oven is tight. > >Thanks for the tip...have to get a meat thermometer, or something, to >measure accurately. > >>Also, if you have an old fashioned oven with a pilot light, they tend >>to stay warm. Or, at least mine does. > >No such luck. Mine's a 2-year-old Frigidaire electric with one of those >fancy digital control panels Barb hates. Hate isn't the word for it now. > .. OTOH, that does mean that it's >likely to be tight enough to let the bulb heat uup the interior... My oven gets very warm even for bread. I also suspect that if you do use it, you're going to have to open the door once in a while to let the humidity out. I just have to put a wet towel on the side of the bowl and the bread doesn't form a crust. (Recipes say to grease the dough to prevent drying out but I don't that.) /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem References: <3ff55dc6$0$4746$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <4knavvc3sinlgfpee1ql9k0p7q2ro7mpqf@4ax.com> Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.4 (Linux) Lines: 19 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 14:18:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.76.206 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1073053103 206.146.76.206 (Fri, 02 Jan 2004 08:18:23 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 08:18:23 CST Organization: Onvoy Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!priapus.visi.com!orange.octanews.net!news.octanews.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!jmaynard Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159172 On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 06:07:13 -0600, arargh401NOSPAM@NOW.AT.arargh.com wrote: >On Fri, 02 Jan 04 10:48:59 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>In article , >> jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: >>>Have to see if my oven will go that low, ... >>Try measuring how hot the oven will get with just the light >>on. I use mine for bread rising and the bulb generates enough >>heat for that; it also helps that the oven is tight. Thanks for the tip...have to get a meat thermometer, or something, to measure accurately. >Also, if you have an old fashioned oven with a pilot light, they tend >to stay warm. Or, at least mine does. No such luck. Mine's a 2-year-old Frigidaire electric with one of those fancy digital control panels Barb hates. OTOH, that does mean that it's likely to be tight enough to let the bulb heat uup the interior... ###### From: arargh401NOSPAM@NOW.AT.arargh.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 09:35:10 -0600 Organization: Not Really! Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <3ff55dc6$0$4746$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <4knavvc3sinlgfpee1ql9k0p7q2ro7mpqf@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tcr3.dynip.ripco.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: e250.ripco.com 1073057620 18727 209.100.226.3 (2 Jan 2004 15:33:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ripco.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:33:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!tdsnet-transit!newspeer.tds.net!gail.ripco.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159181 On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 14:18:23 GMT, jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: >On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 06:07:13 -0600, arargh401NOSPAM@NOW.AT.arargh.com > wrote: >>On Fri, 02 Jan 04 10:48:59 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>>In article , >>> jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: >>>>Have to see if my oven will go that low, ... >>>Try measuring how hot the oven will get with just the light >>>on. I use mine for bread rising and the bulb generates enough >>>heat for that; it also helps that the oven is tight. > >Thanks for the tip...have to get a meat thermometer, or something, to >measure accurately. > >>Also, if you have an old fashioned oven with a pilot light, they tend >>to stay warm. Or, at least mine does. > >No such luck. Mine's a 2-year-old Frigidaire electric with one of those >fancy digital control panels Barb hates. OTOH, that does mean that it's >likely to be tight enough to let the bulb heat uup the interior... You could also pull out the 40W oven bulb, and replace it with a higher wattage bulb to get more heat. -- Arargh401 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html To reply by email, remove the garbage from the reply address. ###### From: Joe Morris Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:40:00 +0000 (UTC) Organization: The MITRE Organization Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: newslocal.mitre.org 1073058000 8826 128.29.24.210 (2 Jan 2004 15:40:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:40:00 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: nn/6.6.4 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!quark.scn.rain.com!chilly.oregonvos.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!newstransit.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159182 Brian Inglis writes: >On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:04:09 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, >jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: [description of a sticktion problem] >Have you tried / can you retension (ffwd-rew) the magtapes without >touching the heads? To add a comment: make *VERY* sure that while retensioning the tape that it does not pass over any stationary object (such as the r/w head). The sticktion problem is (among other possibilities) caused by friction heating of the head during lengthy tape motion; when the tape finally stops the accumulated heat is enough to cause the binder to liquify; when it cools down a short time later it binds the tape to the head. With luck the only thing that happens is that you get a transient I/O error, but in bad cases the oxide can be stripped from the tape, and/or the captstan motors damaged. Joe Morris ###### From: Joe Morris Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:47:33 +0000 (UTC) Organization: The MITRE Organization Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <3ff55dc6$0$4746$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: newslocal.mitre.org 1073058453 8826 128.29.24.210 (2 Jan 2004 15:47:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:47:33 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: nn/6.6.4 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!nntp.TheWorld.com!newstransit.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159183 jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: > >>Have to see if my oven will go that low, ... >Try measuring how hot the oven will get with just the light >on. I use mine for bread rising and the bulb generates enough >heat for that; it also helps that the oven is tight. ...or put it in front of an electric space heater with careful attention to the temperature and gradient. (Don't use petroleum-based space heaters; you don't want the combustion byproducts all over the tape...). Another possible method would be to use electric lamps (like a child's toy oven). A floodlight facing the tape from a few feet away with aluminum foil surrounding but not touching the reel might be one way to cook the tape. Again, careful attention to both the temperature and the temperature gradient are in order. In any case, I would want to retension the reel before cooking it so that the heating/cooling cycle doesn't cause stretching. Joe Morris ###### From: Joe Morris Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:50:53 +0000 (UTC) Organization: The MITRE Organization Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <3ff55dc6$0$4746$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <4knavvc3sinlgfpee1ql9k0p7q2ro7mpqf@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: newslocal.mitre.org 1073058653 8826 128.29.24.210 (2 Jan 2004 15:50:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:50:53 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: nn/6.6.4 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newstransit.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159184 jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) writes: >Thanks for the tip...have to get a meat thermometer, or something, to >measure accurately. >>Also, if you have an old fashioned oven with a pilot light, they tend >>to stay warm. Or, at least mine does. >No such luck. Mine's a 2-year-old Frigidaire electric with one of those >fancy digital control panels Barb hates. OTOH, that does mean that it's >likely to be tight enough to let the bulb heat uup the interior... Repeating a comment I made upthread, I wouldn't recommend a gas-fired oven because of contamination of the tape from the combustion products. Joe Morris ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem References: <3ff55dc6$0$4746$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.4 (Linux) Lines: 10 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 16:26:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.76.206 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1073060773 206.146.76.206 (Fri, 02 Jan 2004 10:26:13 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 10:26:13 CST Organization: Onvoy Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!priapus.visi.com!orange.octanews.net!news.octanews.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!jmaynard Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159187 On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:47:33 +0000 (UTC), Joe Morris wrote: >In any case, I would want to retension the reel before cooking it >so that the heating/cooling cycle doesn't cause stretching. This one might get interesting. I don't want to do it by hand, for lots of reasons (starting with thr fact that it's impossible to get even tension that way). I don't konw if I can get my drive to retension the reel at all; moot point anyway, since the tape is always in contact with the head. Got any suggestions? ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 33 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 18:20:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1073067656 24.71.223.147 (Fri, 02 Jan 2004 11:20:56 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 11:20:56 MST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159198 On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:40:00 +0000 (UTC) in alt.folklore.computers, Joe Morris wrote: >Brian Inglis writes: > >>On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:04:09 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, >>jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: > >[description of a sticktion problem] > >>Have you tried / can you retension (ffwd-rew) the magtapes without >>touching the heads? > >To add a comment: make *VERY* sure that while retensioning the tape >that it does not pass over any stationary object (such as the r/w >head). The sticktion problem is (among other possibilities) caused >by friction heating of the head during lengthy tape motion; when >the tape finally stops the accumulated heat is enough to cause the >binder to liquify; when it cools down a short time later it binds >the tape to the head. > >With luck the only thing that happens is that you get a transient >I/O error, but in bad cases the oxide can be stripped from the tape, >and/or the captstan motors damaged. As tape heads tend to be removable for replacement, could you perhaps remove the heads from the drive to give you a clear path between reels for retensioning? Or are there other components that get in the way? -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 10:33:27 -0800 (PST) Organization: Spies In the Wire Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: spies.com X-Trace: 2 Jan 2004 10:43:18 -0800, spies.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!unknown!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159204 From article , by Brian Inglis : > As tape heads tend to be removable for replacement, could you perhaps > remove the heads from the drive to give you a clear path between reels > for retensioning? Or are there other components that get in the way? Pick up a Qualstar 1052 transport on eBay for $25 and throw out the head stack. One of the projects on the todo list is to modify the firmware on a 1052 to make a tape winder running VERY slowly to try to separate layers of tape that have stuck together without peeling off all the oxide. ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem References: Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.4 (Linux) Lines: 15 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 18:36:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.76.206 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1073068598 206.146.76.206 (Fri, 02 Jan 2004 12:36:38 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 12:36:38 CST Organization: Onvoy Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!eusc.inter.net!priapus.visi.com!orange.octanews.net!news.octanews.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!jmaynard Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159205 On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 10:33:27 -0800 (PST), Al Kossow wrote: >From article , by Brian Inglis : >> As tape heads tend to be removable for replacement, could you perhaps >> remove the heads from the drive to give you a clear path between reels >> for retensioning? Or are there other components that get in the way? >Pick up a Qualstar 1052 transport on eBay for $25 and throw out the head stack. Now THERE's a thought. I'm loath to pull the heads on my 3412S, just because I'm not at all sure I can get them back in the right way and aligned. >One of the projects on the todo list is to modify the firmware on a 1052 to >make a tape winder running VERY slowly to try to separate layers of tape that >have stuck together without peeling off all the oxide. That would be an interesting project... ###### From: "Nico de Jong" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Lines: 22 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 20:44:58 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.142.193.202 X-Complaints-To: abuse@get2.net X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1073072562 129.142.193.202 (Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:42:42 CET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:42:42 CET Organization: get2net Internet Kunde Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159213 "Al Kossow" skrev i en meddelelse news:bt4dhn$4br$1@spies.com... > From article , by Brian Inglis : > > > As tape heads tend to be removable for replacement, could you perhaps > > remove the heads from the drive to give you a clear path between reels > > for retensioning? Or are there other components that get in the way? > > Pick up a Qualstar 1052 transport on eBay for $25 and throw out the head stack. > That would give a problem, as the drive will only step forward a certain amount of tape. It will then rewind, as it supposes that you are doing a mid-tape load. What would be needed, is a hardware modification, so the tape reads forward, until a reflective spot is found, and then rewind. Nico ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem References: Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.4 (Linux) Lines: 11 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:02:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.76.206 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1073073754 206.146.76.206 (Fri, 02 Jan 2004 14:02:34 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 14:02:34 CST Organization: Onvoy Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!priapus.visi.com!orange.octanews.net!news.octanews.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!jmaynard Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159217 On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 20:44:58 +0100, Nico de Jong wrote: >What would be needed, is a hardware modification, so the tape reads forward, >until a reflective spot is found, and then rewind. Well, since Al was talking about a firmware mod anyway... The right answer, ISTM, is to have the tape loaded normally, then have the drive run forward until sensing the EOT marker (if present) or until the tape de-threads by running off the end, then do the usual high-speed rewind and unload. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: 2 Jan 2004 21:01:06 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <3ff55dc6$0$4746$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> <4knavvc3sinlgfpee1ql9k0p7q2ro7mpqf@4ax.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: smeagol X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1073077266 3047 134.117.136.48 (2 Jan 2004 21:01:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Jan 2004 21:01:06 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@smeagol.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!priapus.visi.com!orange.octanews.net!news.octanews.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159228 Joe Morris (jcmorris@mitre.org) writes: > > Repeating a comment I made upthread, I wouldn't recommend a gas-fired > oven because of contamination of the tape from the combustion products. Heck, with that recommendation, I wouldn't use a gas-fired oven for food either! (I briefly contemplated a gas range and clothes cooker for my new house, since it already had gas furnace and water heater. But those appliances cost a fortune here compared to electric models and require a gas-fitter to install them. No sale.) ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: 2 Jan 2004 21:03:18 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <3ff55dc6$0$4746$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: smeagol X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1073077398 3813 134.117.136.48 (2 Jan 2004 21:03:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Jan 2004 21:03:18 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@smeagol.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159229 Jay Maynard (jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx) writes: > > This one might get interesting. I don't want to do it by hand, for lots of > reasons (starting with thr fact that it's impossible to get even tension > that way). I don't konw if I can get my drive to retension the reel at all; > moot point anyway, since the tape is always in contact with the head. Got > any suggestions? Meccano set and some old test tapes. ###### From: Joe Morris Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:08:30 +0000 (UTC) Organization: The MITRE Organization Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <3ff55dc6$0$4746$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: newslocal.mitre.org 1073149710 22006 128.29.24.210 (3 Jan 2004 17:08:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:08:30 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: nn/6.6.4 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newstransit.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159331 jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) writes: >On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 15:47:33 +0000 (UTC), Joe Morris >wrote: >>In any case, I would want to retension the reel before cooking it >>so that the heating/cooling cycle doesn't cause stretching. >This one might get interesting. I don't want to do it by hand, for lots of >reasons (starting with thr fact that it's impossible to get even tension >that way). I don't konw if I can get my drive to retension the reel at all; >moot point anyway, since the tape is always in contact with the head. Got >any suggestions? Nothing hard-and-fast since I don't know your tape drive. Assuming that the tape is 2400' long it can be a drag to manually wind the reels (yes, I've done it in the past) but is there some way you can deliberately misthread the tape to avoid the heads? If you do the job by hand there should be no need for perfectly consistent tension, only that it be sufficient to keep the tape cleanly wound on the reel without being either so tight that it cinches lower layers, or so loose that holes develop in the winding. Tension that would be produced by manually winding the takeup reel while dragging your finger on the inner part of the supply reel flange should be sufficient. Joe Morris ###### From: Joe Morris Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:16:45 +0000 (UTC) Organization: The MITRE Organization Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: newslocal.mitre.org 1073150205 22006 128.29.24.210 (3 Jan 2004 17:16:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:16:45 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: nn/6.6.4 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newspeer1.nwr.nac.net!quark.scn.rain.com!chilly.oregonvos.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!newstransit.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159332 "Nico de Jong" writes: >"Al Kossow" skrev i en meddelelse >news:bt4dhn$4br$1@spies.com... >> From article , by Brian Inglis >: >> > As tape heads tend to be removable for replacement, could you perhaps >> > remove the heads from the drive to give you a clear path between reels >> > for retensioning? Or are there other components that get in the way? >> Pick up a Qualstar 1052 transport on eBay for $25 and throw out the head >> stack. >That would give a problem, as the drive will only step forward a certain >amount of tape. It will then rewind, as it supposes that you are doing a >mid-tape load. >What would be needed, is a hardware modification, so the tape reads forward, >until a reflective spot is found, and then rewind. Why not just mount the reels backwards and on the wrong hub? Put the (real) tape backwards on the takeup hub and an empty reel on the supply hub: the drive should then treat the action as a mid-tape load and "rewind" it; at the end, remount the reels as they would normally be used and repeat the process. Just be very careful that the drive doesn't write anything (perhaps by disconnecting the heads) since the reversed reel will be seen as having a write-enable ring installed. Joe Morris ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 09:40:42 -0800 (PST) Organization: Spies In the Wire Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: spies.com X-Trace: 3 Jan 2004 09:50:43 -0800, spies.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!unknown!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159334 From article , by Joe Morris : > but is there some way you can > deliberately misthread the tape to avoid the heads? > Place a piece of cloth over the head stack The problem, as Nico mentioned, will be that the drive will give up before rolling very far into the tape thinking that there is no BOT strip. You REALLY don't want to roll a sticky tape very fast though. If the layers are stuck together, you will completely peel off the oxide layer from the backing. ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 09:46:09 -0800 (PST) Organization: Spies In the Wire Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: spies.com X-Trace: 3 Jan 2004 09:56:09 -0800, spies.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!news-out1.newsfeeds.com!propagator2-maxim!news-in-maxim.spamkiller.net!newsfeed-3001.bay.webtv.net!news.spies.com!unknown!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159335 From article , by Joe Morris : > > Why not just mount the reels backwards and on the wrong hub? The Qualstar drive he is using has a captive takeup reel (as do most 1/2" streamers) It may be worth a try on something like a CDC Keystone (TU80/81) which should be able to be set to spin at the 25ips rate. Have I mentioned that you don't want to rewind a sticky tape at high speed :-) ###### From: glen herrmannsfeldt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.228.234.203 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s53 1073434059 12.228.234.203 (Wed, 07 Jan 2004 00:07:39 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 00:07:39 GMT Organization: Comcast Online Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 00:07:39 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newspeer1.nwr.nac.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!newshosting.com!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!diablo.voicenet.com!prodigy.com!prodigy.com!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!attbi_s53.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159787 Joe Morris wrote: (snip) > To add a comment: make *VERY* sure that while retensioning the tape > that it does not pass over any stationary object (such as the r/w > head). The sticktion problem is (among other possibilities) caused > by friction heating of the head during lengthy tape motion; when > the tape finally stops the accumulated heat is enough to cause the > binder to liquify; when it cools down a short time later it binds > the tape to the head. I was about to suggest warming the tape head, which I think fixes this problem. Some years ago, long before the invention of VCR's, someone designed a video tape recorder for home use. It used 0.25in tape at 120 in/s. To make it work, it was necessary to warm the head, which they did with a resistor on top of the head. It was described in Popular Science, with the picture showing the results of the tape breaking while running. A very large tangle of tape. -- glen ###### From: "J.Clarke" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:54:10 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 40 Message-ID: <20040106195410.6be97dcf.jclarke@nospam.invalid> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-774.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.11claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) User-Agent: Hamster-Pg/1.13 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!129.250.175.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:159790 On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 00:07:39 GMT glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > Joe Morris wrote: > > (snip) > > > To add a comment: make *VERY* sure that while retensioning the tape > > that it does not pass over any stationary object (such as the r/w > > head). The sticktion problem is (among other possibilities) caused > > by friction heating of the head during lengthy tape motion; when > > the tape finally stops the accumulated heat is enough to cause the > > binder to liquify; when it cools down a short time later it binds > > the tape to the head. > > I was about to suggest warming the tape head, which I think > fixes this problem. > > Some years ago, long before the invention of VCR's, someone > designed a video tape recorder for home use. It used 0.25in > tape at 120 in/s. To make it work, it was necessary to warm > the head, which they did with a resistor on top of the head. > > It was described in Popular Science, with the picture showing > the results of the tape breaking while running. A very large > tangle of tape. Yeah, I remember that one. Wanted to build one in the worst way--I think in part for joy of seeing the tape break. My folks didn't go for that sort of project though. > > -- glen > -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: bv@wjv.comREMOVE (Bill Vermillion) Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Reply-To: bv@wjv.com Organization: W.J.Vermillion - Orlando / Winter Park Message-ID: References: Lines: 104 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:15:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.40.24.38 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net 1074262501 65.40.24.38 (Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:15:01 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:15:01 PST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsmi-eu.news.garr.it!newsmi-us.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!5c1e743a!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:160482 In article , Joe Morris wrote: >Brian Inglis writes: > >>On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:04:09 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, >>jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: First - I'm coming in late but did not see the first message in this thread as I had no access to the NG for awhile. >[description of a sticktion problem] Stiction is a term often widely mis-used. Sticktion is use to refer to the properties of tho highly polished surfaces coming together and being held together by the normal air pressure as the mating is so cloe air can not enter. In engineering 'gage blocks' [sp?] are highly polished pieces of metal use to calibrated such things as micrometerns. They are of exact size. You can 'wring' them together by pressing two together and twisting them to force out any air and they the will stick together being held in place by normal air pressure. When I was a recording engineer Agfa at one time experience stiction with a new line of their tapes that were so highly calendered that when they were staitionary against a highly polished tape head [2" wide heads in this instance] the tape did not like to move when put into play mode as the stiction made the tape stick to the head. >>Have you tried / can you retension (ffwd-rew) the magtapes without >>touching the heads? >To add a comment: make *VERY* sure that while retensioning the tape >that it does not pass over any stationary object (such as the r/w >head). The sticktion problem is (among other possibilities) caused >by friction heating of the head during lengthy tape motion; You aren't going to have that problem as the moving tape will carry off heat and heat from friction is minor. One time I have seen tape stuck to heads because of heat. And that was when a machine was left in record for a long time but the tape was physically paused and the currents flowing through the erase head heated to the point where it cause the tape to heat and stick. I've also seen erase heads destroyed by someone taping back a tension hold and when the tape ran out the machine stayed in record and the head heated to the point of opening up the coils in the head. Tape moving across the heads is used to carry the heat away. > when >the tape finally stops the accumulated heat is enough to cause the >binder to liquify; when it cools down a short time later it binds >the tape to the head. Nope. The reeason that tape sticks is caused by the binder - that is correct. This happened when the manufacturers changes the base of the tape and used a standard binder that was [as I recall] polystyrene based. The bind was hygroscopic [it absorbed moisture from the air] and became sticky. It change the molecular structure of the binder. This would happen in area of humidty of over 50% and temperature over 70F. However this is reversible. Putting the tape in a low RH environment for a long time [eg less then 1% RH] will cure the problem. Commerical freezing - minus 20F or lower will also cure the problem. And the most common way is the heat the tape to drive out the moisture. Because of magnetic properties changing with heat make sure the tape never goes over 130F. In some tape material from 3M many years ago it was shown that tape at 1 hour at 150F [ as if it were in a locked car ] had as much damage done to it as being in near the ground zero vicinity of an atomic explosion where the radiation intensity was 500 times the level of that needed to kill a human. So BE CAREFUL when heating tape. For a good reference on this, and even recipes of how to make your own tape, see "Magnetic Recording" by Marvin J. Camras. A technical hard bound book that cost me around $80 in the mid-1980s. Long out of print. Not even findable on bookfinder or abebooks. Check your libraries. Camras - who died a few years ago - used to work at Armour Research - later Illinois Institute of Technology - and had over 500 patents in the magnetic tape field. He was one of those who made magnetic tape the medium which we know today. If you want to know more than you ever knew about tape, whether audio, video, or data, that book is a gold mine. Mine is NOT for sale. The prefered ways to restore tape in order are 1) very low humidity in an 60F environment, 2) freeze drying in commercial freezer at minus 20F or lower [and seal it when letting it warm up so as not have moisture condense - just as you do with film stored that way] and finally 3) heating it. A mistake on the last one can ruin the tape. Bill -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem References: Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.4 (Linux) Lines: 17 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:38:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.76.206 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1074263882 206.146.76.206 (Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:38:02 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 08:38:02 CST Organization: Onvoy Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!proxad.net!209.98.3.206.MISMATCH!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!jmaynard Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:160483 On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:15:01 GMT, Bill Vermillion wrote: >The prefered ways to restore tape in order are 1) very low humidity >in an 60F environment, 2) freeze drying in commercial freezer at >minus 20F or lower [and seal it when letting it warm up so as not >have moisture condense - just as you do with film stored that way] >and finally 3) heating it. A mistake on the last one can ruin the >tape. I've been nervous about heating the tapes for just that reason... How can I generate a low-humidity environment at 60 F, though?...and how critical is that temperature? I would expect that the humidity is the important part, but I ahve absolutely no idea how to generate dry air. I would assume that the technique for freeze-drying would be to have the tapes in the open in the freezer, then put it in an airtight container and allow to reach room temperature (24 hours or so)...right? ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: <1qqg00l5lbrg11etbp7fh58i8dsfi6mgl8@4ax.com> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 22:53:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1074293615 24.71.223.147 (Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:53:35 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:53:35 MST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!c03.atl99!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!pd7cy2so!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:160498 On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:15:01 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, bv@wjv.comREMOVE (Bill Vermillion) wrote: >For a good reference on this, and even recipes of how to make your >own tape, see "Magnetic Recording" by Marvin J. Camras. A >technical hard bound book that cost me around $80 in the mid-1980s. >Long out of print. Not even findable on bookfinder or abebooks. >Check your libraries. Camras - who died a few years ago - used to >work at Armour Research - later Illinois Institute of Technology - >and had over 500 patents in the magnetic tape field. He was one of >those who made magnetic tape the medium which we know today. > >If you want to know more than you ever knew about tape, whether >audio, video, or data, that book is a gold mine. Mine is NOT for >sale. What was your address again? ;^> -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 15:49:25 -0800 Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Lines: 83 Message-ID: References: <1qqg00l5lbrg11etbp7fh58i8dsfi6mgl8@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: haxrus.apple.com X-Trace: news.apple.com 1074296965 16183 17.205.21.66 (16 Jan 2004 23:49:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@news.apple.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:49:25 +0000 (UTC) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.moat.net!newsfeed-3001.bay.webtv.net!news.spies.com!forum.apple.com!news.apple.com!haxrus.apple.com!user Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:160504 In article <1qqg00l5lbrg11etbp7fh58i8dsfi6mgl8@4ax.com>, Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca wrote: > On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:15:01 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, > bv@wjv.comREMOVE (Bill Vermillion) wrote: > > >For a good reference on this, and even recipes of how to make your > >own tape, see "Magnetic Recording" by Marvin J. Camras. A > >technical hard bound book that cost me around $80 in the mid-1980s. > >Long out of print. Not even findable on bookfinder or abebooks. > >Check your libraries. Camras - who died a few years ago - used to > >work at Armour Research - later Illinois Institute of Technology - > >and had over 500 patents in the magnetic tape field. He was one of > >those who made magnetic tape the medium which we know today. > > Marvin Camras Occupation: electrical and computer engineering educator, inventor Born: Chicago, Illinois, January 1, 1916 Education BSEE, Armour Institute Tech. (now Illinois Institute Tech.), 1940 MSEE, Illinois Institute Tech., 1942 LLD (hon.), Illinois Institute Tech., 1968   Certification Registered professional engineer, Illinois   Career Member staff Armour Research Foundation now Illinois Institute Tech. Research Institute, Chicago, 1940-95, assistant physicist, 1940-45, associate physicist, 1945-46, physicist, 1946-49, senior physicist, 1949-58, senior engineer, 1958-65, sci. adviser electronics div., 1965-69, senior sci. adviser, 1969-95; research professor electrical and computer engineering Illinois Institute Tech., 1986-95   Career Related Member Am. National Standards Institute, 1966-95, chairman s-4 committee, 1966   Creative Works Author: Magnetic Tape Recording, 1985, Magnetic Recording Handbook, 1988, others; editor: Institute Radio Engineers Trans. on Audio, 1958-63. 500 patents in devel. wire and tape recorders, stereo sound reproduction, motion picture sound, video recorders, others in field.   Awards Recipient Distinguished Service award Illinois Institute Tech. Alumni Association, 1948, Achievement award for outstanding contribution motion picture photography U.S. Camera magazine, 1949, John Scott medal Franklin Institute Philadelphia, 1955, citation Ind. Tech. College, 1958, Achievement award I.R.E., 1958, product award Industrial Research magazine, 1966, Merit award Chicago Tech. Societies, 1973, Alumni medal Illinois Institute Tech., 1978, Inventor of Year award Patent Law Association, Chicago, 1979, National medal tech. President of U.S., 1990, Am. Ingenuity award Coors Co./Nat. Association Manufacturers, 1992, National medal of Tech. U.S. Department Commerce, 1990; named to Illinois Institute Tech. Hall of Fame, 1981, Am. Ingenuity Hall of Fame, 1992, Academy Chicago Association Tech. Societies, 1981, Pioneers of Electronics Foothills Electronics Museum, 1981, National Inventors Hall of Fame National Council Patent Law Associations, Patent and Trademark Office, U.S. Department Commerce, 1985, Am. Creativity award Foundation for a Creative Am., 1993.   Memberships Fellow IEEE (sec.-treas. 1951-53, Consumer Electronics award 1964, national chairman professional group on audio I.R.E. 1953-54, Information Storage award Magnetics Society 1990, other awards), Acoustical Society Am. (patent rev. board), American Association for the Advancement of Science, Society Motion Picture and TV Engineers (board managers Chicago 1986-88, Hon. Member award 1990); member NAE, Western Society Engineers (Washington award 1979), Physics Club Chicago (board directors 1969-95, president 1973-74), Radio Engineers Club Chicago, Chicago Acoustic and Audio Group (board directors 1967-68), Audio Engineering Society (cen. vice president 1972-73, hon. governor 1970-95, John S. Potts Memorial Gold medal 1969), Midwest Acoustics Conference (board directors 1969-95), Sigma Xi (chapter president 1959-60), Tau Beta Pi, Eta Kappa Nu.   Family son of Samuel and Ida (Horwich) C.; married Isabelle Pollack, 1951; children: Robert, Carl, Ruth, Michael, Louis.   Death Died June 23, 1995. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: bv@wjv.comREMOVE (Bill Vermillion) Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Reply-To: bv@wjv.com Organization: W.J.Vermillion - Orlando / Winter Park Message-ID: References: Lines: 67 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 05:25:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.40.24.38 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net 1074317100 65.40.24.38 (Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:25:00 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:25:00 PST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!5c1e743a!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:160510 In article , Jay Maynard wrote: >On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:15:01 GMT, Bill Vermillion wrote: >>The prefered ways to restore tape in order are 1) very low humidity >>in an 60F environment, 2) freeze drying in commercial freezer at >>minus 20F or lower [and seal it when letting it warm up so as not >>have moisture condense - just as you do with film stored that way] >>and finally 3) heating it. A mistake on the last one can ruin the >>tape. >I've been nervous about heating the tapes for just that reason... >How can I generate a low-humidity environment at 60 F, >though?...and how critical is that temperature? I would expect >that the humidity is the important part, but I ahve absolutely no >idea how to generate dry air. I guess a dehumidifier. 1% RH is something you don't find. I guess you'd have to go to Arizona or the Sahara desert and run a humidifier? Temperature isn't critcial - and the cooler the better. Cool and low RH for long term storage. Cool and almost no humidty for curing the problem. >I would assume that the technique for freeze-drying would be to >have the tapes in the open in the freezer, then put it in an >airtight container and allow to reach room temperature (24 hours >or so)...right? I have not details - but it's equivalent to the freezer burn you see on things places in a freezer - the moisture comes out. I first ran across this about 15 years ago - prior to the Camras book - when a friend was getting some video tape from about 1970 copied from 1/2" or 1" Ampex video to VHS. These were very early light commercail high-end home hobbiest type reel-reel. He thought the tape had been lost as he sent it off and then did not hear from them. He checked and the tape was being frozen for a few months. Interestingly enough he tried earlier this year to get those original tapes transfered but no one had machines to handle them. Another friend - heavyily into video and knows where to find any machine - found a place to transfer just this past month. However - the 1987 r2r transfer to VHS was retransfered, and cleaned up, and now it's going to be part of a garage band documentary as this video was shot for promo videos to help book the bands. This past week another old radio person and I were interviewed for about an hour on the pre-production, and there were about 5 hours shot with others that day. I even met some old r'n'r musicians from the late 1960s, and one I had not seen since a local concert in 1969 when they were an early band on show that featured the Yardbirds with Jimmy Paige. Who knew he would become so popular in later years. In the other post I mentioned the Camras book and that it was out of print. I found NO copies for via any of the big search engines but a library search showed here in Florida that at least 6 of the state's University libraries have it - as a reference only with no circulation. Typical of many tech books of it's type. Bill -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: bv@wjv.comREMOVE (Bill Vermillion) Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Reply-To: bv@wjv.com Organization: W.J.Vermillion - Orlando / Winter Park Message-ID: References: <1qqg00l5lbrg11etbp7fh58i8dsfi6mgl8@4ax.com> Lines: 43 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 05:25:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.40.24.38 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net 1074317101 65.40.24.38 (Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:25:01 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:25:01 PST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!5c1e743a!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:160511 In article <1qqg00l5lbrg11etbp7fh58i8dsfi6mgl8@4ax.com>, Brian Inglis wrote: >On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:15:01 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, >bv@wjv.comREMOVE (Bill Vermillion) wrote: > >>For a good reference on this, and even recipes of how to make your >>own tape, see "Magnetic Recording" by Marvin J. Camras. A >>technical hard bound book that cost me around $80 in the mid-1980s. >>Long out of print. Not even findable on bookfinder or abebooks. >>Check your libraries. Camras - who died a few years ago - used to >>work at Armour Research - later Illinois Institute of Technology - >>and had over 500 patents in the magnetic tape field. He was one of >>those who made magnetic tape the medium which we know today. >> >>If you want to know more than you ever knew about tape, whether >>audio, video, or data, that book is a gold mine. Mine is NOT for >>sale. >What was your address again? ;^> >-- >Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada > Definately not near Calgary. Even though I lived not to far south of Calgary in the Northern Idaho panhandle for the first part of my life - I don't like it when it gets below 70 anymore. But Calgary is one of the prettier cities I've been in - but it's been years and I hope it hasn't changed. See the other post that it is available. Go to www.abebooks.com and search for "Magnetic Recording" by Marvin Camras. You'll find no copies but you will then see a link to search for libraries - enter something to identify your area, postal code, state, etc., and it will list libraries that have the book. -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: bv@wjv.comREMOVE (Bill Vermillion) Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Reply-To: bv@wjv.com Organization: W.J.Vermillion - Orlando / Winter Park Message-ID: References: <1qqg00l5lbrg11etbp7fh58i8dsfi6mgl8@4ax.com> Lines: 37 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 05:35:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.40.24.38 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net 1074317701 65.40.24.38 (Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:35:01 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:35:01 PST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!5c1e743a!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:160512 In article , Al Kossow wrote: >In article <1qqg00l5lbrg11etbp7fh58i8dsfi6mgl8@4ax.com>, >Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca wrote: > >> On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:15:01 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, >> bv@wjv.comREMOVE (Bill Vermillion) wrote: >> >> >For a good reference on this, and even recipes of how to make your >> >own tape, see "Magnetic Recording" by Marvin J. Camras. A >> >technical hard bound book that cost me around $80 in the mid-1980s. >> >Long out of print. Not even findable on bookfinder or abebooks. >> >Check your libraries. Camras - who died a few years ago - used to >> >work at Armour Research - later Illinois Institute of Technology - >> >and had over 500 patents in the magnetic tape field. He was one of >> >those who made magnetic tape the medium which we know today. >> > >Marvin Camras >Occupation: electrical and computer engineering educator, inventor >Born: Chicago, Illinois, January 1, 1916 Thanks for all the details on Camras. I knew he had done a lot but I had never seen it documented. When I mentioned the tape medium, he and fellow workers at Armour developed the acicular [needle shaped] magnetic particles used in magnetic tape and the tape they developed bsically became the legendary Scotch 111. I've archived the data on Camras that you posted. Again, thank you. Bill -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: <1qqg00l5lbrg11etbp7fh58i8dsfi6mgl8@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 51 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 02:18:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1074392333 24.71.223.147 (Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:18:53 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:18:53 MST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newspeer1.nwr.nac.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:160531 On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 05:25:01 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, bv@wjv.comREMOVE (Bill Vermillion) wrote: >In article <1qqg00l5lbrg11etbp7fh58i8dsfi6mgl8@4ax.com>, >Brian Inglis wrote: >>On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:15:01 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, >>bv@wjv.comREMOVE (Bill Vermillion) wrote: >> >>>For a good reference on this, and even recipes of how to make your >>>own tape, see "Magnetic Recording" by Marvin J. Camras. A >>>technical hard bound book that cost me around $80 in the mid-1980s. >>>Long out of print. Not even findable on bookfinder or abebooks. >>>Check your libraries. Camras - who died a few years ago - used to >>>work at Armour Research - later Illinois Institute of Technology - >>>and had over 500 patents in the magnetic tape field. He was one of >>>those who made magnetic tape the medium which we know today. >>> >>>If you want to know more than you ever knew about tape, whether >>>audio, video, or data, that book is a gold mine. Mine is NOT for >>>sale. > >>What was your address again? ;^> > > >Definately not near Calgary. Even though I lived not to far south >of Calgary in the Northern Idaho panhandle for the first part of my >life - I don't like it when it gets below 70 anymore. But Calgary >is one of the prettier cities I've been in - but it's been years >and I hope it hasn't changed. The panhandle's a pretty nice place and often a lot warmer than here in parts. Calgary's still pretty, but suffering from expansion and lack of infrastructure -- too much traffic, too few new urban highways. Just below freezing, pretty frost, soupy fog right now. >Go to www.abebooks.com and search for "Magnetic Recording" by >Marvin Camras. You'll find no copies but you will then see a link >to search for libraries - enter something to identify your area, >postal code, state, etc., and it will list libraries that have the >book. Useful tip -- didn't know that OCLC offerred that service -- bookmarked -- and the local UofC library has a copy of the 1988 book in the basement. Have to ask a kid what the conditions on that location are, and if they could borrow it on their card. -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 03:11:49 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Dragonhill Systems Lines: 16 Message-ID: <1074390129snz@dsl.co.uk> References: X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1074395509 2982 10.0.0.1 (18 Jan 2004 03:11:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 03:11:49 +0000 (UTC) X-Received: from dsl.demon.co.uk ([158.152.92.150]) by news.demon.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1Ai3Ln-0000lf-00 for mail2news@news.demon.co.uk; Sun, 18 Jan 2004 03:11:48 +0000 X-Path: dsl.co.uk!bhk X-To: mail2news@news.demon.co.uk X-Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 X-Lines: 15 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!kibo.news.demon.net!mutlu.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!bhk Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:160537 In article jmaynard@conmicro.cx "Jay Maynard" writes: > How can I generate a low-humidity environment at 60 F, though?...and how > critical is that temperature? I would expect that the humidity is the > important part, but I ahve absolutely no idea how to generate dry air. I would assume something that can recirculate the air through something like silica gel. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We can no longer stand apart from Europe if we would. Yet we are untrained to mix with our neighbours, or even talk to them". George Macaulay Trevelyan, 1919 ###### From: iMeowbot Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Mail-Copies-To: nobody Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem Organization: uJane References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.3b1 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Meow: Wouf X-No-Repost: yes Injector-Info: http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Tarantula_20injector X-Face: GoP_M4IkjWG/y%ym?jo5gyL.y/nBJmU+$gW+nH>P1jU\r6ZePn|suM%F2'kMu *hx4-uRHbyV'nd1sm'W+U/N@bvLY%O+kw6u%R9[vee-p.xk}X*8C{E-Dx$|<)_WSTBHl }w8$pvbD=<)p|i*imBJ*.eEYlX[]_+YN Message-ID: Lines: 27 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 03:27:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.160.7.172 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny01.gnilink.net 1074396425 68.160.7.172 (Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:27:05 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:27:05 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!peer02.cox.net!cox.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny01.gnilink.net.POSTED!7052aa2c!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:160538 In article , jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: > How can I generate a low-humidity environment at 60 F, though? You can buy dessicator cabinets for this. Some types use silica gel cartridges (some of which can be "recharged" by heating), others use bottled nitrogen. This equipment can be really costly new, but there is a used market out there and bottled gas is cheaper than you might expect. > ...and how > critical is that temperature? I would expect that the humidity is the > important part, but I ahve absolutely no idea how to generate dry air. Even keeping the box in an air conditioned closet ought to be enough to let you get whatever you want. The AC would give a dryer room and make les work for the dessicator too. > I would assume that the technique for freeze-drying would be to have the > tapes in the open in the freezer, then put it in an airtight container and > allow to reach room temperature (24 hours or so)...right? Freeze drying has to be fast to work right, else you'll just get condensate that freezes on the surface. -- mopping is easy ...mopping is fun ....the Smart Mop is for everyone ###### From: "L0nD0t.$t0we11" <"L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net> Reply-To: "L0nD0t.$t0we11"@ComcastDot.Net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem References: <1074390129snz@dsl.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <1074390129snz@dsl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.170.229.36 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s02 1074398488 67.170.229.36 (Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:01:28 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:01:28 GMT Organization: Comcast Online Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 04:01:29 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!attbi_s02.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:160540 Roughly 1/17/04 19:11, Brian {Hamilton Kelly}'s monkeys randomly typed: > In article > jmaynard@conmicro.cx "Jay Maynard" writes: > >> How can I generate a low-humidity environment at 60 F, though?...and how >> critical is that temperature? I would expect that the humidity is the >> important part, but I ahve absolutely no idea how to generate dry air. > > I would assume something that can recirculate the air through something > like silica gel. > Silica and carbon are just surface absorbers. Calcium Chloride and Sulfuric Acid are pretty good at absorbing water, but even those saturate quickly. Best way is the dehumidifier, but generally can't get as low humidity as acid or chloride. -- Now that Spirit Rover has confirmed the presence of weapons of mass destruction on Mars, we are preparing to invade... ###### Message-ID: <400ACBF3.24A4186A@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 9-track tape problem References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 35 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 18:14:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.178.89.67 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net 1074449672 63.178.89.67 (Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:14:32 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:14:32 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed.news2me.com!canoe.uoregon.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!2fb3b9aa!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:160566 Jay Maynard wrote: > On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 14:15:01 GMT, Bill Vermillion wrote: > >The prefered ways to restore tape in order are 1) very low humidity > >in an 60F environment, 2) freeze drying in commercial freezer at > >minus 20F or lower [and seal it when letting it warm up so as not > >have moisture condense - just as you do with film stored that way] > >and finally 3) heating it. A mistake on the last one can ruin the > >tape. > > I've been nervous about heating the tapes for just that reason... I got some docs a few years ago from 3M about those tape cartridges (like 6525,...) which stated at at 112 F and above the tape would "forget" very quickly. I don't know why this wouldn't be true for other tapes as well. Chris AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ > > > How can I generate a low-humidity environment at 60 F, though?...and how > critical is that temperature? I would expect that the humidity is the > important part, but I ahve absolutely no idea how to generate dry air. > > I would assume that the technique for freeze-drying would be to have the > tapes in the open in the freezer, then put it in an airtight container and > allow to reach room temperature (24 hours or so)...right?