From: cjs2895@hotmail.com (cjs2895) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Date: 21 Dec 2003 20:23:18 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 15 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.1.48.184 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1072066998 2598 127.0.0.1 (22 Dec 2003 04:23:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 04:23:18 +0000 (UTC) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158292 Folks, I'm looking for large 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes that I can use for my desktop background. Color or B/W. I've Googled for a couple hours and the best I've been able to find is some System 360 marketing materials that someone scanned (and even touched up!). Everything else I've come across tends to be small and low resolution. The best images I've found so far are at: http://www.geocities.com/rpn01/360a.html If you have anything simular to the above please send me an e-mail. CJS ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler References: From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (windows-nt) Cancel-Lock: sha1:CNMf94lzfxSx8myi4PvbEXK5PIw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 29 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 05:43:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.31.152.5 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net 1072071836 67.31.152.5 (Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:43:56 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:43:56 PST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!headwall.stanford.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net.POSTED!7c2b8201!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158294 cjs2895@hotmail.com (cjs2895) writes: > I'm looking for large 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes that I can > use for my desktop background. Color or B/W. I've Googled for a couple > hours and the best I've been able to find is some System 360 marketing > materials that someone scanned (and even touched up!). Everything else > I've come across tends to be small and low resolution. you may have sparked something with the geocities url ... since it is saying that it has temporarily exceeded its transfer limit are the newcastle ones are too small? http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/events/anniversaries/40th/webbook/photos/index.html this seems to be reasonably large size: http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/events/anniversaries/40th/images/ibm360_672/slide07.jpg these are probably marketing material scans at columbia http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/datacell.html http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/2311.html there are some misc. here: http://www.nfrpartners.com/comphistory/ and a couple 360 front panel pictures here http://www.punch-card.co.uk/toppage1.htm -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 02:05:01 -0600 From: "Russ Holsclaw" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 01:06:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.8.170.25 X-Trace: sv3-lYbXiafL24ht1LOdbYIuec90UuNHCaQCv6eFxn7WQzG05963kOWvEiKnm+3J+OoyPKi78JAIHxDaOzz!ZqiXM3CQPnWy6Gs2aVIatQ0k0dtfYfuyf8iyV9ZbPvwi2wUVz17UP+QRQvo= X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!border3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158297 > I'm looking for large 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes that I can > use for my desktop background. Color or B/W. I've Googled for a couple > hours and the best I've been able to find is some System 360 marketing > materials that someone scanned (and even touched up!). Everything else > I've come across tends to be small and low resolution. > > The best images I've found so far are at: > > http://www.geocities.com/rpn01/360a.html > > If you have anything simular to the above please send me an e-mail. > IBM has a photo archive at: http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_album.html This is a "photo album" of mainframe computers down through the years, including a good number of 360s. They are sort of medium sized, larger than "thumbnails", but less that full "wallpaper" stuff. Still, I've used some of these to make my own "screen saver" of vintage computers. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Little Paul Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 Reply-To: usenet@is-out-to-get.me.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: unknown@cse-pms.cse.bris.ac.uk (Address not verified) Organization: University of Bristol, UK Message-ID: <3FE6EA99.9020006@juggler.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:59:06 GMT Lines: 23 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!carbon.eu.sun.com!btnet-feed5!btnet-peer1!news-peer0-test!news-peer-test!btnet!peer.news.eu-x.com!server2.netnews.ja.net!bath.ac.uk!unknown Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158306 cjs2895 wrote: > I'm looking for large 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes that I can > use for my desktop background. Color or B/W. I've Googled for a couple > hours and the best I've been able to find is some System 360 marketing > materials that someone scanned (and even touched up!). Everything else > I've come across tends to be small and low resolution. Have you tried the Google advanced image search, with the size set to "wallpaper"? http://images.google.com/images?as_q=ibm+360&imgsz=xxlarge s/xxlarge/xlarge/ to include some slightly smaller images in your search. Personally, I like http://www.crowl.org/Lawrence/history/ibm_360.full.jpg although http://www.beagle-ears.com/lars/engineer/comphist/c20-1684/fig127b.jpg has wallpaper potential... -Paul ###### From: Peter Flass User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 11 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:04:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.194.63.80 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.nyroc.rr.com 1072098274 24.194.63.80 (Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:04:34 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:04:34 EST Organization: Road Runner Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-rtr.nyroc.rr.com!news-out.nyroc.rr.com!twister.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158305 cjs2895 wrote: > Folks, > > I'm looking for large 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes that I can > use for my desktop background. Color or B/W. I've Googled for a couple > hours and the best I've been able to find is some System 360 marketing > materials that someone scanned (and even touched up!). Everything else > I've come across tends to be small and low resolution. > The IBM archives site has a number of fairly large B/W photos. ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: <3FE6EA99.9020006@juggler.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 05:39:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1072157976 24.71.223.147 (Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:39:36 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:39:36 MST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158365 On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:59:06 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, Little Paul wrote: >cjs2895 wrote: >> I'm looking for large 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes that I can >> use for my desktop background. >Personally, I like http://www.crowl.org/Lawrence/history/ibm_360.full.jpg Yowza! Never seen a full 360 front panel before. Came into mainframes from minis in the 4300/3090 era. Did you guys use LP dumps? Seems like everything you need would be available on the lights. -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: Elliott Roper Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:49:10 +0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <231220031249100825%nospam@yrl.co.uk> Reply-To: Elliott Roper References: <3FE6EA99.9020006@juggler.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Mail-Copies-To: nobody User-Agent: Thoth/1.7.2 (Carbon/OS X) X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 23 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!tdsnet-transit!newspeer.tds.net!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!nospam Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158371 In article , Brian Inglis wrote: > On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:59:06 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, Little > Paul wrote: > > >cjs2895 wrote: > >> I'm looking for large 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes that I can > >> use for my desktop background. > > >Personally, I like http://www.crowl.org/Lawrence/history/ibm_360.full.jpg > > Yowza! Never seen a full 360 front panel before. > Came into mainframes from minis in the 4300/3090 era. > Did you guys use LP dumps? > Seems like everything you need would be available on the lights. From that picture, it looks like they got Henry Kissinger in to sort out the operator's problem. Who needs dumps? -- Swen has got to me. I thought I would be the last on earth to mangle my e-mail address. fsnospam$elliott$$ ###### From: "Nico de Jong" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3FE6EA99.9020006@juggler.net> <231220031249100825%nospam@yrl.co.uk> Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Lines: 22 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:15:04 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.142.193.202 X-Complaints-To: abuse@get2.net X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1072185185 129.142.193.202 (Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:13:05 CET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:13:05 CET Organization: get2net Internet Kunde Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!uninett.no!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158372 "Elliott Roper" skrev i en meddelelse news:231220031249100825%nospam@yrl.co.uk... > > > > Yowza! Never seen a full 360 front panel before. > > Came into mainframes from minis in the 4300/3090 era. > > Did you guys use LP dumps? > > Seems like everything you need would be available on the lights. Well, if you were clever enough, yes. My experience is from a 360/40, running DOS. It was (in my case) quite common to debug Assembler programs, and evtl to change CCW's etc via the operator console. For cobol programs, we used dumps.Imagine, a full hex dump of 118K (the last 10K were occupied by a ForeGround program, e.g. printing of tapes, reading cards, ...) with 16 bytes per line, each byte represented in hex and on the right side of the paper in printable characters. That was fun. Nico ###### From: "Guy" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3FE6EA99.9020006@juggler.net> Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Lines: 28 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 18:28:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.166.50.187 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: fe3.columbus.rr.com 1072204105 24.166.50.187 (Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:28:25 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:28:25 EST Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online http://www.rr.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!63.218.45.10.MISMATCH!newshosting.com!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!167.206.3.103.MISMATCH!news3.optonline.net!cyclone.rdc-nyc.rr.com!news-server.columbus.rr.com!fe3.columbus.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158396 "Brian Inglis" wrote in message news:k2lfuvs103gr5hqc5u6jmbtjo0l21apqmn@4ax.com... > On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:59:06 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, Little > Paul wrote: > > >cjs2895 wrote: > >> I'm looking for large 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes that I can > >> use for my desktop background. > > >Personally, I like http://www.crowl.org/Lawrence/history/ibm_360.full.jpg > > Yowza! Never seen a full 360 front panel before. > Came into mainframes from minis in the 4300/3090 era. > Did you guys use LP dumps? > Seems like everything you need would be available on the lights. Yes we used core dump printouts to debug. The operators wouldn't let us anywhere near the machines. > -- > Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada > > Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) > fake address use address above to reply ###### From: Peter Flass User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes References: <3FE6EA99.9020006@juggler.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 22:29:42 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.194.63.80 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.nyroc.rr.com 1072218582 24.194.63.80 (Tue, 23 Dec 2003 17:29:42 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 17:29:42 EST Organization: Road Runner Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-rtr.nyroc.rr.com!news-out.nyroc.rr.com!twister.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158402 Guy wrote: > "Brian Inglis" wrote in message > news:k2lfuvs103gr5hqc5u6jmbtjo0l21apqmn@4ax.com... > >>On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:59:06 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, Little >>Paul wrote: >> >> >>>cjs2895 wrote: >>> >>>>I'm looking for large 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes that I can >>>>use for my desktop background. >> >>>Personally, I like http://www.crowl.org/Lawrence/history/ibm_360.full.jpg >> >>Yowza! Never seen a full 360 front panel before. >>Came into mainframes from minis in the 4300/3090 era. >>Did you guys use LP dumps? >>Seems like everything you need would be available on the lights. > > > Yes we used core dump printouts to debug. The operators wouldn't let us > anywhere near the machines. > Same here, but I remember a CE using the FP to debug microcode on a /30. I recall asking "but what good is read-only storage?" ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: <8tohuvknu27rutlekrogtt756bsckac13r@4ax.com> References: <3FE6EA99.9020006@juggler.net> <231220031249100825%nospam@yrl.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 33 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 00:59:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1072227550 24.71.223.147 (Tue, 23 Dec 2003 17:59:10 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 17:59:10 MST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!news.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.frii.net!newsfeed.frii.net!140.99.99.194.MISMATCH!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158410 On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:15:04 +0100 in alt.folklore.computers, "Nico de Jong" wrote: > >"Elliott Roper" skrev i en meddelelse >news:231220031249100825%nospam@yrl.co.uk... >> > >> > Yowza! Never seen a full 360 front panel before. >> > Came into mainframes from minis in the 4300/3090 era. >> > Did you guys use LP dumps? >> > Seems like everything you need would be available on the lights. > >Well, if you were clever enough, yes. My experience is from a 360/40, >running DOS. It was (in my case) quite common to debug Assembler programs, >and evtl to change CCW's etc via the operator console. > >For cobol programs, we used dumps.Imagine, a full hex dump of 118K (the last >10K were occupied by a ForeGround program, e.g. printing of tapes, reading >cards, ...) with 16 bytes per line, each byte represented in hex and on the >right side of the paper in printable characters. >That was fun. On 370 systems, the CICS dumps were a few MB of partition, and VSE or VM OS dumps were usually 16MB of memory in the same format. ISTR CICS (and probably VM) had a trace table as part of the dump (or somewhere in the dump), so you started with the last entry and worked your way back from there to find the cause of the dump, and then further back to the origin of the problem. -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler References: <3FE6EA99.9020006@juggler.net> <231220031249100825%nospam@yrl.co.uk> <8tohuvknu27rutlekrogtt756bsckac13r@4ax.com> From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (windows-nt) Cancel-Lock: sha1:jLCFyGH6C+IbmAns5+HeiOTCnmY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 53 Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 02:34:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.58.62.71 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net 1072233240 65.58.62.71 (Tue, 23 Dec 2003 18:34:00 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 18:34:00 PST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!headwall.stanford.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net.POSTED!7c2b8201!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158411 Brian Inglis writes: > On 370 systems, the CICS dumps were a few MB of partition, and VSE > or VM OS dumps were usually 16MB of memory in the same format. ISTR > CICS (and probably VM) had a trace table as part of the dump (or > somewhere in the dump), so you started with the last entry and > worked your way back from there to find the cause of the dump, and > then further back to the origin of the problem. introduced in cp/67 as part of fast reboot ... was writing dump to disk ... instead of to the printer (and then automatigically rebooting) ... from van vleck's home page http://www.multicians.org/thvv/ includes story about cp/67 crashing 27 times in same day: http://www.multicians.org/thvv/360-67.html the comparison with multics somewhat gave rise to the development of the "new storage system" ... see rest of story in above. i had done the tty support for cp/67 when an undergraduate and ibm had shipped in product. I had implemented using one byte arithmatic under the assumption that tty line lengths were never more than 255 (actually never more than 80). In the above, I believe somebody had done something like a mod to cp/67 for supporting an ascii plotter or graphics device with long lines (1200bytes?) ... and the length of transferred data calculations got messed up. in any case, when I was trying to do some fancy stuff with 2702 controller for tty & 2741 and found out it couldn't be done with 2702 somewhat led to project to build pcm controller to replace the 2702 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#360pcm and getting blaimed for helping start the ibm pcm controller industry later when playing with rex (now called rexx) ... i made some assertion that i could write a replacement for the VM/370 dump reader (a large, all assembler application supported by an organization in endicott) in rex that ran ten times faster (rex was/is an interpreted language) with ten times more function in less than 3 months elapsed time ... only working on it only half time http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#dumprx and for some addition drift, some old rexx postings: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#29 20th March 2000 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#30 20th March 2000 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#31 20th March 2000 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#32 20th March 2000 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#33 20th March 2000 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#57 Amiga Rexx http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#58 Amiga Rexx http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#59 Amiga Rexx http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#60 Amiga Rexx -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm ###### From: Nick Spalding Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 09:43:14 +0000 Organization: Posted via Forte APN, http://www.forteinc.com/apn/index.php Message-ID: <5tniuvkfbhi0cbc17i5gpcqtf618332400@4ax.com> Reply-To: Nick Spalding References: <3FE6EA99.9020006@juggler.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.00/32.628 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Posting-Agent: Hamster/2.0.0.1 X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 47 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news20.forteinc.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158420 Peter Flass wrote, in : > Guy wrote: > > "Brian Inglis" wrote in message > > news:k2lfuvs103gr5hqc5u6jmbtjo0l21apqmn@4ax.com... > > > >>On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:59:06 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, Little > >>Paul wrote: > >> > >> > >>>cjs2895 wrote: > >>> > >>>>I'm looking for large 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes that I can > >>>>use for my desktop background. > >> > >>>Personally, I like http://www.crowl.org/Lawrence/history/ibm_360.full.jpg > >> > >>Yowza! Never seen a full 360 front panel before. > >>Came into mainframes from minis in the 4300/3090 era. > >>Did you guys use LP dumps? > >>Seems like everything you need would be available on the lights. > > > > > > Yes we used core dump printouts to debug. The operators wouldn't let us > > anywhere near the machines. > > > > Same here, but I remember a CE using the FP to debug microcode on a /30. > I recall asking "but what good is read-only storage?" That was fun. I think it was in 1966 that a recently installed /30 that I looked after would stop dead a couple of times a week with red lights blazing. The difficulty arose because the original problem caused a machine check interrupt which dived off into a different part of the microprogram from where the actual fault occurred. I had to add a jumper to stop the clock instantly when the original parity check in the microprogram readout happened. The blinkenlights then identified the card (the MPU in a /30 was made from mylar punched cards) and on pulling it I found it was ever so slightly off-punch and a few holes had a tiny sliver of metal still present down one side. Just now and again one of these would pick an extra bit. Fixing it was simply a matter of using a keypunch to duplicate the card onto one of the stock of unpunched ones that came with the machine and making sure *that* one wasn't off-punch. I still have that card. -- Nick Spalding ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Date: 24 Dec 2003 14:54:12 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <3FE6EA99.9020006@juggler.net> <5tniuvkfbhi0cbc17i5gpcqtf618332400@4ax.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: smeagol X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1072277652 10296 134.117.136.48 (24 Dec 2003 14:54:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Dec 2003 14:54:12 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@smeagol.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!tdsnet-transit!newspeer.tds.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158441 Nick Spalding (spalding@iol.ie) writes: ... > Fixing it was simply a matter of using a > keypunch to duplicate the card onto one of the stock of unpunched ones > that came with the machine and making sure *that* one wasn't off-punch. Just try fixing the Intel floating point bug as quickly and simply! > > I still have that card. Ya, I hate to pitch old stuff too. Had to buy a bigger house recently. ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: <3FE6EA99.9020006@juggler.net> <5tniuvkfbhi0cbc17i5gpcqtf618332400@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 03:56:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1072324600 24.71.223.147 (Wed, 24 Dec 2003 20:56:40 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 20:56:40 MST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!38.144.126.100.MISMATCH!feed5.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158474 On 24 Dec 2003 14:54:12 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) wrote: >Nick Spalding (spalding@iol.ie) writes: >... >> Fixing it was simply a matter of using a >> keypunch to duplicate the card onto one of the stock of unpunched ones >> that came with the machine and making sure *that* one wasn't off-punch. > > Just try fixing the Intel floating point bug as quickly and simply! IIRC the Pentium FDIV bug was one bit in each of three table entries, so it would have been trivial had they been on cards. -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:29:22 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Dragonhill Systems Lines: 24 Message-ID: <1072459435snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3FE6EA99.9020006@juggler.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1072520962 23717 10.0.0.1 (27 Dec 2003 10:29:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:29:22 +0000 (UTC) X-Received: from dsl.demon.co.uk ([158.152.92.150]) by news.demon.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AaBhB-0006AO-00 for mail2news@news.demon.co.uk; Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:29:21 +0000 X-Path: dsl.co.uk!bhk X-To: mail2news@news.demon.co.uk X-Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 X-Lines: 23 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!mutlu.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!bhk Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158600 In article lynn@garlic.com writes: > later when playing with rex (now called rexx) ... i made some > assertion that i could write a replacement for the VM/370 dump reader > (a large, all assembler application supported by an organization in > endicott) in rex that ran ten times faster (rex was/is an interpreted > language) with ten times more function in less than 3 months elapsed > time ... only working on it only half time Rexx is an excellent language for writing "one-off" ad hoc programs very quickly: and the resultant program is usually pretty efficient as well. (Mark you, my only experience with Rexx has been under OS/2, where we're also blessed with the even more powerful Object Rexx: this is also available for [at least] Windoze, AIX, Linux, but not for mainframes, SFAIK. It makes me laugh that it's a free download from IBM for OS/2, AIX, and Linux, but that Windozers have to pay for it:-) -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We can no longer stand apart from Europe if we would. Yet we are untrained to mix with our neighbours, or even talk to them". George Macaulay Trevelyan, 1919 ###### From: "David Wade" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:22:29 -0000 Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <3FE6EA99.9020006@juggler.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 213-152-54-233.dsl.eclipse.net.uk (213.152.54.233) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1072567350 14213622 213.152.54.233 ([40235]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4925.2800 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!213-152-54-233.dsl.eclipse.net.UK!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158649 "Brian Inglis" wrote in message news:k2lfuvs103gr5hqc5u6jmbtjo0l21apqmn@4ax.com... > On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:59:06 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, Little > Paul wrote: > > >cjs2895 wrote: > >> I'm looking for large 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes that I can > >> use for my desktop background. > > >Personally, I like http://www.crowl.org/Lawrence/history/ibm_360.full.jpg > My favourites are at http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/old/events/anniversaries/40th/webbook/photos/index.h tml but then the 360/67 was the first multi-user machine I got to use. ###### From: Julian Thomas Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960s images of IBM 360 mainframes Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:28:25 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <3fef91a3$4$wg$mr2ice@news.fltg.net> References: <3FE6EA99.9020006@juggler.net> <5tniuvkfbhi0cbc17i5gpcqtf618332400@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v2.40/37 X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 23 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158718 In <5tniuvkfbhi0cbc17i5gpcqtf618332400@4ax.com>, on 12/24/03 at 09:43 AM, Nick Spalding may have used oatmeal boxes, old string, and new, used, and recycled electrons to say (at least in part): >That was fun. I think it was in 1966 that a recently installed /30 that >I looked after would stop dead a couple of times a week with red lights >blazing. I remember a mod 50 (in the development lab) that would stop dead (deader than your /30) and do a power down when you did a memory dump. Design problem, but vexatious as all getout at the time. -- Julian Thomas: jt@jt-mj.net http://jt-mj.net In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State! Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc http://www.possi.org -- -- Never insult an alligator until you've crossed the river.