From: Paul Allen Panks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 06:11:37 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Central Iowa (Model) Railroad, Plano, TX, USA Lines: 15 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: sdf.lonestar.org X-Trace: chessie.cirr.com 1071382297 11979 192.94.73.1 (14 Dec 2003 06:11:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cirr.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 06:11:37 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: tin/1.4.6-20020816 ("Aerials") (UNIX) (NetBSD/1.6.2_RC3 (alpha)) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!zeus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!news-out1.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!in.nntp.be!egsner!news.cirr.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157456 Hello, I seem to recall that the DEC PDP-8 offered a CRT display (such as the VR14 used by the DEC GT40). Is this correct? When was the first ever CRT display used on either a micro or mainframe computer? How about a color CRT display? Sincerely, Paul Panks dunric@yahoo.com -- panks@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 08:12:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1071389535 24.71.223.147 (Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:12:15 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 01:12:15 MST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.vmunix.org!peer02.cox.net!cox.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157458 On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 06:11:37 +0000 (UTC) in alt.folklore.computers, Paul Allen Panks wrote: >Hello, > >I seem to recall that the DEC PDP-8 offered a CRT display (such as the >VR14 used by the DEC GT40). Is this correct? When was the first ever CRT >display used on either a micro or mainframe computer? How about a color >CRT display? AFAICT the Whirlwind seems to have been the first in 1951, but others may have earlier knowledge. -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? References: Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 14 Dec 2003 01:37:06 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 20 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 14 Dec 2003 01:45:07 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157464 Paul Allen Panks writes: > I seem to recall that the DEC PDP-8 offered a CRT display (such as the > VR14 used by the DEC GT40). There were several different options. On the 8/e, there were the VC8-E (usually w/ VR14) and the VT8-E. But there were earlier things for the 8 and 8/I. > When was the first ever CRT display used on either a micro or > mainframe computer? The first that was intended explicitly as a display rather than as memory or combined memory/display might have been Whirlwind. > How about a color > CRT display? There were two-color vector displays (red & green) in the early 1960s. They used two phosphor coatings with substantially differing activation energies. ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: <16gotv0jk72h6kb555idtqajfmlsn69ttu@4ax.com> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 10:53:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1071399194 24.71.223.147 (Sun, 14 Dec 2003 03:53:14 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 03:53:14 MST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!167.206.3.103.MISMATCH!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157470 On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 06:11:37 +0000 (UTC) in alt.folklore.computers, Paul Allen Panks wrote: >Hello, > >I seem to recall that the DEC PDP-8 offered a CRT display (such as the >VR14 used by the DEC GT40). Is this correct? When was the first ever CRT >display used on either a micro or mainframe computer? How about a color >CRT display? The first color graphics display for a microcomputer might have been the 1976 Cromemco Dazzler -- an S-100 video board. -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: Pete Verdon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:51:07 +0000 Organization: University of Warwick, UK Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: usenet@verdonet.organisation.unitedkingdom NNTP-Posting-Host: host81-152-227-189.range81-152.btcentralplus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Trace: wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk 1071417068 20580 81.152.227.189 (14 Dec 2003 15:51:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@csv.warwick.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:51:08 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: KNode/0.7.2 X-No-Archive: Yes Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news2.euro.net!news2.euro.net!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!newsfeed.kabelfoon.nl!195.129.110.21.MISMATCH!bnewsfeed00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewsinpeer01.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewsinpeer00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!server1.netnews.ja.net!warwick!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157503 Paul Allen Panks wrote: > I seem to recall that the DEC PDP-8 offered a CRT display (such as the > VR14 used by the DEC GT40). Is this correct? When was the first ever CRT > display used on either a micro or mainframe computer? How about a color > CRT display? Manchester's EDSAC had a CRT (or rather, six of them) in the late forties, though what it displayed was somewhat... primitive. I believe this was pure display, since they used mercury delay lines ("tanks") for memory. Pete ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 10:55:33 -0800 (PST) Organization: Spies In the Wire Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: spies.com X-Trace: 14 Dec 2003 11:02:23 -0800, spies.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!unknown!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157515 > Paul Allen Panks writes: >> I seem to recall that the DEC PDP-8 offered a CRT display (such as the >> VR14 used by the DEC GT40). The DEC 338 (and 339 for 18-bit systems) are display list vector generators. Bell mentions in "Computer Engineering" that the 338 was more complicated than the PDP-8 that contolled it. ###### From: stanb45@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? References: Organization: Metropolis Grafix Reply-To: stanb45@dial.pipex.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.2 UNIX) Date: 14 Dec 2003 19:17:07 GMT Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2003 19:17:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62-241-190-130.dsl.pipex.com X-Trace: 1071429427 news-text.dial.pipex.com 13355 62.241.190.130:18574 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!news2.euro.net!newsfeed.kabelfoon.nl!195.129.110.21.MISMATCH!bnewsfeed00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewsinpeer00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewspost00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157518 On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:51:07 +0000, Pete Verdon wrote: >Paul Allen Panks wrote: > >> I seem to recall that the DEC PDP-8 offered a CRT display (such as the >> VR14 used by the DEC GT40). Is this correct? When was the first ever CRT >> display used on either a micro or mainframe computer? How about a color >> CRT display? > >Manchester's EDSAC had a CRT (or rather, six of them) in the late forties, >though what it displayed was somewhat... primitive. > >I believe this was pure display, since they used mercury delay lines >("tanks") for memory. Yep, and with a bit of bit-bashing you could display a small amount of text, or 16 x 32 bits of graphics. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb .at. dial .dot. pipex .dot. com (Remove any digits from the addresses when mailing me.) The future was never like this! ###### From: bob User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:20:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 138.88.72.50 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1071436835 138.88.72.50 (Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:20:35 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:20:35 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!06db8f94!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157536 Al Kossow wrote: >>Paul Allen Panks writes: >> >>>I seem to recall that the DEC PDP-8 offered a CRT display (such as the >>>VR14 used by the DEC GT40). > > > The DEC 338 (and 339 for 18-bit systems) are display list vector > generators. Bell mentions in "Computer Engineering" that the 338 > was more complicated than the PDP-8 that contolled it. > > Dave brown was one of the desingers on the 338 iirc. He moved into marketing support during the 8/e time frame. The VC8e has already been mentioned, but there was also the KV8i that Murry Rueben did, he left to start Data Terminal Systems, and Al Deluca was the lead for the KV8e but we did not build that. Thre wasthe VT05 like device done on the 11 by John Kirk and others, I don't recall the name of that, but it was a an alpha numberic display using the SMC CRT controller, the unibus interface did an omnibus kinda dma - it did an NPR, stole two bus ccyles, looked to see if there was an NPR pending, if not it did two more. Hmmm. I think I designed that. ###### From: David Donald Hooton Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:27:11 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Yours, perhaps - see www.std.com/~ddh/resume.htm Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pip1-5.std.com X-Trace: pcls4.std.com 1071437231 16855 192.74.137.185 (14 Dec 2003 21:27:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@TheWorld.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:27:11 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: tin/1.4.5-20010409 ("One More Nightmare") (UNIX) (IRIX64/6.5 (IP27)) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nntp.TheWorld.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157538 In comp.sys.dec Paul Allen Panks wrote: > I seem to recall that the DEC PDP-8 offered a CRT display (such as the > VR14 used by the DEC GT40). Is this correct? When was the first ever CRT > display used on either a micro or mainframe computer? How about a color > CRT display? My high school bought VT05 CRTs for its PDP-8/E system around 1975. It also had bought a Textronix graphics terminal for it around 1974. - DDH ###### From: cdl@deeptow.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:56:06 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Marine Physical Lab, U.C. San Diego Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deeptow.ucsd.edu X-Trace: news1.ucsd.edu 1071438966 954 192.135.238.192 (14 Dec 2003 21:56:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news1.ucsd.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:56:06 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cdl@deeptow.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!enews.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news.ucsd.edu!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157545 In article , Al Kossow wrote: >> Paul Allen Panks writes: >>> I seem to recall that the DEC PDP-8 offered a CRT display (such as the >>> VR14 used by the DEC GT40). > >The DEC 338 (and 339 for 18-bit systems) are display list vector >generators. Bell mentions in "Computer Engineering" that the 338 >was more complicated than the PDP-8 that contolled it. Note that the DECUS logo is a stylized drawing of the 338 display. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst@ucsd.edu ###### From: "Richard Tomkins" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec References: Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Lines: 29 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 18:11:59 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.11.174.98 X-Trace: news.nnrp.ca 1071443637 66.11.174.98 (Sun, 14 Dec 2003 18:13:57 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 18:13:57 EST Organization: NNRP.CA Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!167.206.3.103.MISMATCH!news3.optonline.net!news.primus.ca!news.primus.ca!news.nnrp.ca!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157549 GenRad sold a Digital Test System based on a PDP-8. It had a CRT, not sure what kind, maybe it was made by GenRad. Sure saved a lot of paper. rtt "Brian Inglis" wrote in message news:gp6otvse4punt76e1133auk9ova40jg9kj@4ax.com... > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 06:11:37 +0000 (UTC) in alt.folklore.computers, > Paul Allen Panks wrote: > > >Hello, > > > >I seem to recall that the DEC PDP-8 offered a CRT display (such as the > >VR14 used by the DEC GT40). Is this correct? When was the first ever CRT > >display used on either a micro or mainframe computer? How about a color > >CRT display? > > AFAICT the Whirlwind seems to have been the first in 1951, but others > may have earlier knowledge. > -- > Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada > > Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) > fake address use address above to reply ###### From: glen herrmannsfeldt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.228.234.203 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s51 1071443658 12.228.234.203 (Sun, 14 Dec 2003 23:14:18 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 23:14:18 GMT Organization: Comcast Online Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 23:14:18 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.f.de.plusline.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.news2me.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!attbi_s51.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157551 Pete Verdon wrote: > Paul Allen Panks wrote: >>I seem to recall that the DEC PDP-8 offered a CRT display (such as the >>VR14 used by the DEC GT40). Is this correct? When was the first ever CRT >>display used on either a micro or mainframe computer? How about a color >>CRT display? > Manchester's EDSAC had a CRT (or rather, six of them) in the late forties, > though what it displayed was somewhat... primitive. > I believe this was pure display, since they used mercury delay lines > ("tanks") for memory. Did anyone ever use Williams tubes for display purposes? They could have been early bit mapped graphical displays. -- glen ###### From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Date: 14 Dec 2003 18:23:25 -0500 Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: xuxa.iecc.com X-Trace: xuxa.iecc.com 1071444205 24929 208.31.42.42 (14 Dec 2003 23:23:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@iecc.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2003 23:23:25 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!newsfeed.vmunix.org!peer02.cox.net!cox.net!news-xfer.cox.net!news.lightlink.com!xuxa.iecc.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157552 >The DEC 338 (and 339 for 18-bit systems) are display list vector >generators. Bell mentions in "Computer Engineering" that the 338 >was more complicated than the PDP-8 that contolled it. It sure looks that way in my 338 manual, which shows how you can write a light pen following routine that runs entirely in the 338. Also don't forget the 340, the same system lashed up to a PDP-6 or -10. They were 36 bit machines but used similar technology to DEC's 12 and 18 bit lines. ###### From: Pete Verdon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 23:33:11 +0000 Organization: University of Warwick, UK Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: usenet@verdonet.organisation.unitedkingdom NNTP-Posting-Host: host81-152-227-189.range81-152.btcentralplus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Trace: wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk 1071444791 4338 81.152.227.189 (14 Dec 2003 23:33:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@csv.warwick.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 23:33:11 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: KNode/0.7.2 X-No-Archive: Yes Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!server1.netnews.ja.net!warwick!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157555 glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > Did anyone ever use Williams tubes for display purposes? They could > have been early bit mapped graphical displays. They were CRTs used as memory, yes? Can anyone explain to me how they worked? I can see how one could "write" to the phosphor on a CRT, but I can't think of any way for the machine to read it. Pete ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:16:32 -0800 (PST) Organization: Spies In the Wire Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: spies.com X-Trace: 14 Dec 2003 16:23:24 -0800, spies.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!unknown!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157562 > Note that the DECUS logo is a stylized drawing of the 338 display. It's actually the Type 30 point-plot display, contemporary with the founding of DECUS. --al card carrying (just checked my wallet) DECUS member 113104 ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: <350qtvssi292ercqkv0d4no8esov45brm3@4ax.com> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:33:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1071448417 24.71.223.147 (Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:33:37 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:33:37 MST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!newsfeed.telus.net!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157565 On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:16:32 -0800 (PST) in alt.folklore.computers, aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote: >> Note that the DECUS logo is a stylized drawing of the 338 display. > >It's actually the Type 30 point-plot display, contemporary with >the founding of DECUS. IIRC from the DECUS site, it's actually an (only somewhat) stylized version of the original PDP-1 display. And checking with DECUS informs me that was called Type 30 (so you taught me something I didn't know). -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### Reply-To: "Larry King" From: "Larry King" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Lines: 15 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 6bc2f98109e24829ed0965705326e3c3 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1071448461 6bc2f98109e24829ed0965705326e3c3 (Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:34:21 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:34:21 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:34:21 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!news-xfer.cox.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157567 "Pete Verdon" wrote in message news:brirvn$47i$2@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk... > glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > > > Did anyone ever use Williams tubes for display purposes? They could > > have been early bit mapped graphical displays. > > They were CRTs used as memory, yes? Can anyone explain to me how they > worked? I can see how one could "write" to the phosphor on a CRT, but I > can't think of any way for the machine to read it. > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=williams+tube+memory ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:38:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1071448718 24.71.223.147 (Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:38:38 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:38:38 MST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!63.218.45.11.MISMATCH!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!167.206.3.103.MISMATCH!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157569 On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 23:33:11 +0000 in alt.folklore.computers, Pete Verdon wrote: >glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > >> Did anyone ever use Williams tubes for display purposes? They could >> have been early bit mapped graphical displays. > >They were CRTs used as memory, yes? Can anyone explain to me how they >worked? I can see how one could "write" to the phosphor on a CRT, but I >can't think of any way for the machine to read it. It was the original "storage" tube, based on analogue radar display storage tubes, and required refreshing like dynamic RAM chips. See: http://www.computer50.org/kgill/williams/williams.html -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:55:39 +0000 (UTC) Organization: University of Waterloo Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <350qtvssi292ercqkv0d4no8esov45brm3@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bcr10.uwaterloo.ca X-Trace: rumours.uwaterloo.ca 1071453339 18007 129.97.34.125 (15 Dec 2003 01:55:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uwaterloo.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 01:55:39 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!torn!news.uwaterloo.ca!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157576 In article <350qtvssi292ercqkv0d4no8esov45brm3@4ax.com>, Brian Inglis wrote: >On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:16:32 -0800 (PST) in alt.folklore.computers, >aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote: > >>> Note that the DECUS logo is a stylized drawing of the 338 display. >> >>It's actually the Type 30 point-plot display, contemporary with >>the founding of DECUS. > >IIRC from the DECUS site, it's actually an (only somewhat) stylized >version of the original PDP-1 display. It certainly *looks* loke the PDP-1 display: http://gallery.brouhaha.com/pdp1-20031029/img_4246 -- David Evans dfevans@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual ###### From: elliem@klynk.com (Cal Gardner) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Date: 14 Dec 2003 19:42:19 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 26 Message-ID: <13595fd4.0312141942.4c31eff8@posting.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.74.204.93 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1071459739 17527 127.0.0.1 (15 Dec 2003 03:42:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 03:42:19 +0000 (UTC) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!newsfeed2.dallas1.level3.net!news.level3.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157580 glen herrmannsfeldt wrote in message news:... > Pete Verdon wrote: > > > Paul Allen Panks wrote: > > >>I seem to recall that the DEC PDP-8 offered a CRT display (such as the > >>VR14 used by the DEC GT40). Is this correct? When was the first ever CRT > >>display used on either a micro or mainframe computer? How about a color > >>CRT display? > > > Manchester's EDSAC had a CRT (or rather, six of them) in the late forties, > > though what it displayed was somewhat... primitive. > > > I believe this was pure display, since they used mercury delay lines > > ("tanks") for memory. > > Did anyone ever use Williams tubes for display purposes? They could > have been early bit mapped graphical displays. > > -- glen Not CRTs as we know them today, but the IBM 704/709 had an optional CRT as an output device. Said tube also had a small slaved display with a 35mm camera attached. Assembler op-codes WTV and CFF (Change Film Frame). Cal ###### From: Paul Repacholi Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 00:32:37 +0800 Organization: none Lines: 26 Message-ID: <87u142hwii.fsf@prep.synonet.com> References: <350qtvssi292ercqkv0d4no8esov45brm3@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zion-a01.conceptual.net.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: nnrp.waia.asn.au 1071508737 28787 203.190.192.4 (15 Dec 2003 17:18:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nnrp.waia.asn.au NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:18:57 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.1001 (Gnus v5.10.1) Emacs/21.2 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:41ehhAs5ZJL1/9CZL0A5z/w/70s= Cache-Post-Path: grimiore.conceptual.net.au!unknown@203.190.197.100 X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!newsfeed.hanau.net!newsfeed.vmunix.org!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.uwa.edu.au!nntp.waia.asn.au!nnrp.waia.asn.au!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157646 dfevans@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) writes: > In article <350qtvssi292ercqkv0d4no8esov45brm3@4ax.com>, > Brian Inglis wrote: >>IIRC from the DECUS site, it's actually an (only somewhat) stylized >>version of the original PDP-1 display. > It certainly *looks* loke the PDP-1 display: > http://gallery.brouhaha.com/pdp1-20031029/img_4246 It is from the PDP-1B, 1 built, 0 shipped. The 1C had a display, but it looked totally different. We have an 8 with a display in the ACMS collection. Also there where colour display units listed for the 8 well before the Cromenco, both the bi-colour write through type and full colour. -- Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be. ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:23:04 -0800 Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <350qtvssi292ercqkv0d4no8esov45brm3@4ax.com> <87u142hwii.fsf@prep.synonet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: haxrus.apple.com X-Trace: news.apple.com 1071519783 29794 17.205.21.66 (15 Dec 2003 20:23:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@news.apple.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:23:03 +0000 (UTC) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!forum.apple.com!news.apple.com!haxrus.apple.com!user Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157673 In article <87u142hwii.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi wrote: > > http://gallery.brouhaha.com/pdp1-20031029/img_4246 > > It is from the PDP-1B, 1 built, 0 shipped. The 1C had > a display, but it looked totally different. > The picture is of a Type 30 display that is part of the PDP-1 that is being restored (either a PDP-1C or PDP-1D.. there is no serial number tag inside the machine to ID the model). Perhaps you are thinking of the Type 343 display http://lhasa.harvard.edu/?page=gallery.htm Which also looks similar to the 338 and 339 ###### From: glen herrmannsfeldt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 45 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.228.234.203 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s54 1071549684 12.228.234.203 (Tue, 16 Dec 2003 04:41:24 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 04:41:24 GMT Organization: Comcast Online Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 04:41:24 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!attbi_s54.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157731 Pete Verdon wrote: > glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: >>Did anyone ever use Williams tubes for display purposes? They could >>have been early bit mapped graphical displays. > They were CRTs used as memory, yes? Can anyone explain to me how they > worked? I can see how one could "write" to the phosphor on a CRT, but I > can't think of any way for the machine to read it. Tektronix made a series of CRT terminals with storage CRTs. Well, first they made oscilloscopes that would store the image from a single sweep, and then extended that to terminals. There is a printer that goes along with it, in which case the image is read off the screen and sent to the printer. It is hard to imagine doing it reliably, but then people in the 1950's would say the same about today's DRAMs. The tektronix CRT's work by first giving the screen a negative charge. Then an electron beam, along with the usual deflection system, is aimed at a point on the screen. Enough current is used such that more electrons are knocked out of the screen. Another electron gun floods the whole screen with low energy electrons, which are reflected in spots with a negative charge, but absorbed and create light where it has a positive charge. Williams tubes must have used a similar principle, where secondary emission can knock out enough electrons to yield a positive charge, or a smaller current can add electrons to a spot. Measuring the current needed to charge a spot can read out the value. Like core memory, the read is destructive. Like DRAM, it must be refreshed often enough to make up for leakage, especially from read/write to neighboring cells. I believe that the screen is visible, and read/write activity can be seen by looking at it. -- glen ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 54 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 06:47:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1071557276 24.71.223.147 (Mon, 15 Dec 2003 23:47:56 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 23:47:56 MST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newspeer1.nwr.nac.net!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157734 On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 04:41:24 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: >Pete Verdon wrote: > >> glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > >>>Did anyone ever use Williams tubes for display purposes? They could >>>have been early bit mapped graphical displays. > >> They were CRTs used as memory, yes? Can anyone explain to me how they >> worked? I can see how one could "write" to the phosphor on a CRT, but I >> can't think of any way for the machine to read it. > >Tektronix made a series of CRT terminals with storage CRTs. > >Well, first they made oscilloscopes that would store the image >from a single sweep, and then extended that to terminals. > >There is a printer that goes along with it, in which case the image >is read off the screen and sent to the printer. > >It is hard to imagine doing it reliably, but then people in the 1950's >would say the same about today's DRAMs. > >The tektronix CRT's work by first giving the screen a negative charge. > >Then an electron beam, along with the usual deflection system, is aimed >at a point on the screen. Enough current is used such that more >electrons are knocked out of the screen. > >Another electron gun floods the whole screen with low energy electrons, >which are reflected in spots with a negative charge, but absorbed and >create light where it has a positive charge. > >Williams tubes must have used a similar principle, where secondary >emission can knock out enough electrons to yield a positive charge, >or a smaller current can add electrons to a spot. Measuring the >current needed to charge a spot can read out the value. Like core >memory, the read is destructive. Like DRAM, it must be refreshed >often enough to make up for leakage, especially from read/write to >neighboring cells. > >I believe that the screen is visible, and read/write activity can be >seen by looking at it. The Williams tube article at MU says they had to shield the memory storage tubes from stray fields and used a parallel display tube to view the memory. -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: slavins@hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost (Simon Slavin) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:59:00 +0000 Organization: None Lines: 52 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: hearsay.demon.co.uk X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1071622711 15492 194.222.24.177 (17 Dec 2003 00:58:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:58:31 +0000 (UTC) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!user Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:157825 In article , johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) wrote: >It sure looks that way in my 338 manual, which shows how you can write >a light pen following routine that runs entirely in the 338. Remember when we all thought that light pens were the thing of the future ? In article , Eric Smith wrote: >There were two-color vector displays (red & green) in the early 1960s. >They used two phosphor coatings with substantially differing activation >energies. Funny story about technology: Very early colour displays had two problems: they were sited next to lots of electrical equipment so they were subjected to powerful external magnetic fields /and/ their own power circuitry was not made to a fine precision so their own mag- netic fields didn't apply consistent power. Consequently, pictures on these displays tended to swim or shimmer a bit: a row or column might not be quite straight and might move around a bit as you looked at it. Some people had a problem with reading such displays and others just shrugged and got used to it. The displays worked and you could read them if you really wanted to. Nevertheless, inconsistency and inaccuracy annoys people, so some work was put into fixing this, by applying external sheilding and by regulating voltages to a higher precision. Eventually, a nice solid, predictably perpendicular display was produced. It's the American Way. Only, two years later, it was noticed that the new-style displays were starting to face whereas the original ones were still going strong. Confusion reigned until someone explained the idea of phosphor burn-in to these people. The new, nice, tightly calibrated displays always showed the same images in exactly the same place, always hitting the same pieces of phosphor, and causing what we now know as 'screensaved burn-in' which was much worse those days because the phosphor coating didn't last as long. The older displays tended to wave their images around a bit, hitting difference pieces of of the coated surface, and not burning into precisely the same piece of phosphor each time. ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? References: Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 18 Dec 2003 18:46:40 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 6 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 18 Dec 2003 18:55:33 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158013 cdl@deeptow.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) writes: > Note that the DECUS logo is a stylized drawing of the 338 display. No, the DECUS logo predates the 338 by at least three years. It's a stylized drawing of the Type 30 Precision CRT Display first used with the PDP-1. Perhaps the 338 used a later model of the Type 30, such as the Type 30E. ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: PDP-8...did it have a CRT display? Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:20:46 -0800 (PST) Organization: Spies In the Wire Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: spies.com X-Trace: 18 Dec 2003 20:28:17 -0800, spies.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.linkpendium.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder2.hal-mli.net!news.moat.net!newsfeed-3001.bay.webtv.net!news.spies.com!unknown!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:158020 From article , by Eric Smith : > cdl@deeptow.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) writes: >> Note that the DECUS logo is a stylized drawing of the 338 display. > No, the DECUS logo predates the 338 by at least three years. It's a stylized > drawing of the Type 30 Precision CRT Display first used with the PDP-1. > > Perhaps the 338 used a later model of the Type 30, such as the Type 30E. The tube is integrated into the rack in the 300 series. see: http://lhasa.harvard.edu/?page=gallery.htm The 338/339/340's are stroke generators, and needed an analog interface. The Type 30 has D/As in the desk, and has a digital interface.