From: drushel@apk.net (Richard F. Drushel, Ph.D.) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: 30 Sep 2003 20:22:45 GMT Organization: Coleco ADAM Online, Ltd. Lines: 109 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: junior.apk.net X-Trace: plonk.apk.net 1064953365 5170 207.54.158.21 (30 Sep 2003 20:22:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@apk.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Sep 2003 20:22:45 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.6-20020816 ("Aerials") (UNIX) (SunOS/5.8 (sun4u)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!plonk.apk.net!news.apk.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:152283 The famous anonymous FTP archive at wsmr-simtel20.army.mil shut down 10 years ago today. It was hosted on a DECsystem 2060. I used it often to search for CP/M and MS-DOS software. I was logged into it when it went offline. Here (courtesy of Google, though I do have my own copy archived somewhere) is the memorial post I made 10 years ago, with the final session log. *Rich* > From: rfd@po.CWRU.Edu (Richard F. Drushel) > Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm,alt.folklore.computers > Subject: Farewell to wsmr-simtel20.army.mil > Date: 1 Oct 1993 00:32:34 GMT > Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) > Lines: 85 > Message-ID: <28ftr2$pmc@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> > Reply-To: rfd@po.CWRU.Edu (Richard F. Drushel) > NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu Today was the shutdown of wsmr-simtel20.army.mil, one of the few (if any?) remaining DECsystem 2060s on the net. This was my favorite site for CP/M software, and I found a few MS-DOS items of interest as well. Out of curiosity and as a tribute, I had an open anonymous ftp session when the machine was disconnected. Here is the session log; thank you, simtel20. *************************** begin transcript ******************************* cwbiol2.cwru.edu> date Thu Sep 30 17:27:05 EDT 1993 cwbiol2.cwru.edu> ftp wsmr-simtel20.army.mil Connected to wsmr-simtel20.army.mil. 220 WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL FTP Server Process 5Z(119)-7 at Thu 30-Sep-93 15:27-MDT Name (wsmr-simtel20.army.mil:drushel): anonymous 331 ANONYMOUS user ok, send real ident as password. Password: 230-WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL is owned and operated by the U.S. Army White Sands 230-Missile Range, New Mexico. SIMTEL20 is usually always up, except for PM 230-on the first Wednesday of each month, 4pm and 8pm Mountain Time (GMT-7). 230-Send problem reports to ACTION@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL. 230- 230-*** Due to funding constraints, realignment of mission functions, *** 230-*** and Department of Army downsizing; *** 230-*** SIMTEL20 will cease operations !!! *** 230-*** 30 September 1993 - 1600 HOURS Mountain Daylight Time *** 230-*** Only one more day of SIMTEL20 operations! *** 230- 230-Only nine ANONYMOUS FTP logins are allowed during weekday prime time, 5am 230-to 3pm Mountain Time, but 27 all other times. Try restricting your 230-connection attempts to those "other times" for best results. 230-* New ANONYMOUS users: please "get 00-readme.txt" and read it. * 230- 230-SIMTEL20 files are also available by anonymous ftp from mirror sites 230-OAK.Oakland.Edu (141.210.10.117), wuarchive.wustl.edu (128.252.135.4), 230-archive.orst.edu (128.193.2.13), ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9), nic.funet.fi 230-(128.214.6.100), src.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.3.7), nic.switch.ch 230-(130.59.1.40), archie.au (139.130.4.6), or nctuccca.edu.tw (140.111.3.21). 230-See also the CDROM.INF file for CD-ROM availability information. 230- The system will go down today at 17:27:54 until 1-Jan-2000 00:00:00 230 User ANONYMOUS logged in at Thu 30-Sep-93 15:27-MDT, job 33. ftp> [...] ftp> !date Thu Sep 30 18:05:35 EDT 1993 ftp> !finger @wsmr-simtel20.army.mil [wsmr-simtel20.army.mil] User Personal name Job Subsys Idle %CPU TTY Console location ??? 6 2.6 211 Aida.Update.UU.SE 14 4d11 Detached 16 4d11 Detached 18 EXEC 1.6.213 TACOM-EMH1.ARMY.MIL 24 1d23 216 Internet NVT ANONYMOU FTP-only Guest 15 FTPSRT 3:06 0.1 215 Internet NVT 25 FTPSRT 2 0.2 221 devax.admin.athabascau.ca 33 FTPSRT 0.6 227 cwbiol2.BIOL.CWRU.Edu 34 FTPSRT 2.3 231 [192.56.137.12] GHICKS Greg Hicks 29 EXEC 0.6.224 Rota Spain MRC Mark R. Crispin 17 EXEC 6.2.212 panda.wa.com TTAYLOR Thad T. Taylor 19 EXEC 1 0.4. 40 VI102 (9600) W8SDZ Keith Petersen 12 REMARK 0.4.220 Remote: Warren, Michigan ftp> [at this point, I had to leave to pick up my daughter from school. I left the terminal logged in. When I returned to the lab 20 minutes later...] ftp> !date Thu Sep 30 18:25:48 EDT 1993 ftp> !finger @wsmr-simtel20.army.mil [wsmr-simtel20.army.mil] connect: Connection timed out ftp> bye cwbiol2.cwru.edu> *************************** end transcript ********************************* -- Richard F. Drushel, Ph.D. | "Aplysia californica" is your taxonomic Department of Biology, Slug Division | nomenclature. / A slug, by any other Case Western Reserve University | name, is still a slug by nature. Cleveland, Ohio 44106-7080 U.S.A. | -- apologies to Data, "Ode to Spot" ###### From: wiesje_janssen@zonnet.nl (wiesje janssen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: 1 Oct 2003 01:21:10 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 131 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.59.103.172 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1064996470 10127 127.0.0.1 (1 Oct 2003 08:21:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:21:10 +0000 (UTC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:152404 Is it that long ago already? Wow, I'm getting old! Fond memories of ftp-ing to Simtel from an IBM-mainframe under VM/CMS. It was quite a hassle, getting files this way. It took a number of steps: 1. FTP-ing the files you want to the user account om CMS. 2. Go to the computer centre and use kermit on CMS and the only publicly availlable IBM-PC to download on a floppy 3. Use a conversion program (Xenocopy as I seem to recall) to write CP/M disks 4. Go home and be happy (well not always, sometimes some setting was forgotten, somewhere down the line.....) Could laserprint from my C-64 too! How? Well, here's how: 1. Create text with geos wordprocessor and print to file using a postscript driver 2. Go to the computer centre of the hospital, use a commodore 64 which was connected to the local VAX computer on which I had an account, but no access to the laserprinter. Connection was made using desterm. (Not forget to edit postscript file, which contained a bug in the header. Wow! Took me long time back then to figure this one out!) 3. Transfer file to CMS account, where I had access to the laser printer. 4. Print it! Ah! Memories. Computing was much more fun back then. drushel@apk.net (Richard F. Drushel, Ph.D.) wrote in message news:... > The famous anonymous FTP archive at wsmr-simtel20.army.mil shut > down 10 years ago today. It was hosted on a DECsystem 2060. I used > it often to search for CP/M and MS-DOS software. I was logged into it > when it went offline. Here (courtesy of Google, though I do have my own > copy archived somewhere) is the memorial post I made 10 years ago, with > the final session log. > > *Rich* > > > From: rfd@po.CWRU.Edu (Richard F. Drushel) > > Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm,alt.folklore.computers > > Subject: Farewell to wsmr-simtel20.army.mil > > Date: 1 Oct 1993 00:32:34 GMT > > Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) > > Lines: 85 > > Message-ID: <28ftr2$pmc@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> > > Reply-To: rfd@po.CWRU.Edu (Richard F. Drushel) > > NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu > > Today was the shutdown of wsmr-simtel20.army.mil, one of > the few (if any?) remaining DECsystem 2060s on the net. This was > my favorite site for CP/M software, and I found a few MS-DOS > items of interest as well. Out of curiosity and as a tribute, I > had an open anonymous ftp session when the machine was disconnected. > Here is the session log; thank you, simtel20. > > *************************** begin transcript ******************************* > > cwbiol2.cwru.edu> date > Thu Sep 30 17:27:05 EDT 1993 > > cwbiol2.cwru.edu> ftp wsmr-simtel20.army.mil > Connected to wsmr-simtel20.army.mil. > > 220 WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL FTP Server Process 5Z(119)-7 at Thu 30-Sep-93 15:27-MDT > Name (wsmr-simtel20.army.mil:drushel): anonymous > 331 ANONYMOUS user ok, send real ident as password. > Password: > 230-WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL is owned and operated by the U.S. Army White Sands > 230-Missile Range, New Mexico. SIMTEL20 is usually always up, except for PM > 230-on the first Wednesday of each month, 4pm and 8pm Mountain Time (GMT-7). > 230-Send problem reports to ACTION@WSMR-SIMTEL20.ARMY.MIL. > 230- > 230-*** Due to funding constraints, realignment of mission functions, *** > 230-*** and Department of Army downsizing; *** > 230-*** SIMTEL20 will cease operations !!! *** > 230-*** 30 September 1993 - 1600 HOURS Mountain Daylight Time *** > 230-*** Only one more day of SIMTEL20 operations! *** > 230- > 230-Only nine ANONYMOUS FTP logins are allowed during weekday prime time, 5am > 230-to 3pm Mountain Time, but 27 all other times. Try restricting your > 230-connection attempts to those "other times" for best results. > 230-* New ANONYMOUS users: please "get 00-readme.txt" and read it. * > 230- > 230-SIMTEL20 files are also available by anonymous ftp from mirror sites > 230-OAK.Oakland.Edu (141.210.10.117), wuarchive.wustl.edu (128.252.135.4), > 230-archive.orst.edu (128.193.2.13), ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9), nic.funet.fi > 230-(128.214.6.100), src.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.3.7), nic.switch.ch > 230-(130.59.1.40), archie.au (139.130.4.6), or nctuccca.edu.tw (140.111.3.21). > 230-See also the CDROM.INF file for CD-ROM availability information. > 230- The system will go down today at 17:27:54 until 1-Jan-2000 00:00:00 > 230 User ANONYMOUS logged in at Thu 30-Sep-93 15:27-MDT, job 33. > ftp> > > [...] > > ftp> !date > Thu Sep 30 18:05:35 EDT 1993 > > ftp> !finger @wsmr-simtel20.army.mil > [wsmr-simtel20.army.mil] > User Personal name Job Subsys Idle %CPU TTY Console location > ??? 6 2.6 211 Aida.Update.UU.SE > 14 4d11 Detached > 16 4d11 Detached > 18 EXEC 1.6.213 TACOM-EMH1.ARMY.MIL > 24 1d23 216 Internet NVT > ANONYMOU FTP-only Guest 15 FTPSRT 3:06 0.1 215 Internet NVT > 25 FTPSRT 2 0.2 221 devax.admin.athabascau.ca > 33 FTPSRT 0.6 227 cwbiol2.BIOL.CWRU.Edu > 34 FTPSRT 2.3 231 [192.56.137.12] > GHICKS Greg Hicks 29 EXEC 0.6.224 Rota Spain > MRC Mark R. Crispin 17 EXEC 6.2.212 panda.wa.com > TTAYLOR Thad T. Taylor 19 EXEC 1 0.4. 40 VI102 (9600) > W8SDZ Keith Petersen 12 REMARK 0.4.220 Remote: Warren, Michigan > > ftp> > > [at this point, I had to leave to pick up my daughter from school. I left > the terminal logged in. When I returned to the lab 20 minutes later...] > > ftp> !date > Thu Sep 30 18:25:48 EDT 1993 > > ftp> !finger @wsmr-simtel20.army.mil > [wsmr-simtel20.army.mil] > connect: Connection timed out > > ftp> bye > > cwbiol2.cwru.edu> > > *************************** end transcript ********************************* ###### From: scottgregory@yahoo.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: 1 Oct 2003 05:12:24 -0700 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-690.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 4.20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:152377 In article , wiesje janssen says... > >Is it that long ago already? Wow, I'm getting old! Fond memories of >ftp-ing to Simtel from an IBM-mainframe under VM/CMS. It was quite a >hassle, getting files this way. It took a number of steps: Sure - but you have not used FTP, until you have used an FTP mail gateway! In first year, only connected computer I had access to was a Vax. It was on BITNET, with no FTP access to places like SIMTEL. You had to email to the BITNET-FTP gateway your commands, which were executed and the results mailed back to you. Files downloaded were multi-part uuencoded emails, that tended to take some time across the 1200kb modem of the day (in second year I bought a 2400 - and man that was fast). Stitch the multi-part together, and then decode. Happily burned up quite a bit of CPU time that way. sdg ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: 01 Oct 03 10:56:33 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 49 Message-ID: <2283.404T1695T6565448@kltpzyxm.invalid> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-037.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.newsfeed.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!129.250.175.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:152420 In article wiesje_janssen@zonnet.nl (wiesje janssen) writes: >Is it that long ago already? Wow, I'm getting old! Fond memories of >ftp-ing to Simtel from an IBM-mainframe under VM/CMS. It was quite a >hassle, getting files this way. It took a number of steps: >Could laserprint from my C-64 too! How? Well, here's how: Ah, the fun of weird and wonderful file transfers. I wrote a utility for Sperry->Unisys OS/3 that could copy to and from CP/M disks, and transferred many files between my IMSAI and the mainframe's 8-inch floppy drive. (At least up to 512-byte sectors - the mighty mainframe couldn't handle the 1K sectors that my little IMSAI used routinely). This is how I eventually moved a lot of my own files (including my ASCII art collection) from 9-track tape to something readable by microcomputers. Although most of our mainframe printouts were your standard line printer stuff, we had one job for which we would send tapes to a typesetting bureau. And then one day it closed down. But we did have an old Apple LaserWriter kicking around. So I modified the mainframe COBOL program to spit out PostScript. I then logged into the mainframe from a PC that had a synchronous serial port and software that emulated a UTS-20 with file transfer capability. Once I got the PostScript file into the PC it just took a single COPY command to send it out the serial port to the LaserWriter. Presto, camera-ready copy. For the first six months after we moved our payroll to direct deposit, my Amiga 1000 was an integral part of the process. I kept it at work (my 2500 stayed at home) and used it as my terminal on the Unix system. (That's how I justified having an Amiga at work - they didn't have to buy me a dumb terminal.) At payroll time I would download the cheque file, log off the Unix box, then dial in to the bank and transfer the file. I think that place was glad to be rid of me - my solutions worked too well to be politically acceptable. :-) -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign! ###### From: D.J. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:22:34 -0500 Organization: TychoTown Tycho Crater Ice Cream Parlour Message-ID: Distribution: world Reply-To: blue7green@wowserscrosswinds.net References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.news2me.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-04!sn-xit-06!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:152448 scottgregory@yahoo.com wrote: ] Sure - but you have not used FTP, until you have used an FTP mail gateway! ] ] In first year, only connected computer I had access to was a Vax. It was on ] BITNET, with no FTP access to places like SIMTEL. You had to email to the ] BITNET-FTP gateway your commands, which were executed and the results mailed ] back to you. ] ] Files downloaded were multi-part uuencoded emails, that tended to take some time ] across the 1200kb modem of the day (in second year I bought a 2400 - and man ] that was fast). ] ] Stitch the multi-part together, and then decode. ] ] Happily burned up quite a bit of CPU time that way. oh dear. I remember that... ftpmail via my university bitnet account. Putting the 16kb parts back together only to find one of the parts is corrupt. Since these were Amiga files, I had to send the ftpmail message, wait a week or two, get the files back, download them to a 720KB floppy. Then take it home, sneaker and bicycle net. Load Workbench 1.3 with cross-dos on it. No hard drive. I had to create a ram drive. Join the parts in the ram drive on a 1 meg machine. And hope it was readable. If not, wait for the unknown wait time to expire, and try again. Egad. Did that rather often from 1988 thru 1990. JimP. -- Jim Disclaimer: Standard July 30, 2003: http://blue7green.net/crestar/index.html drive-in theatres: http://www.drivein-jim.net/ ###### From: wiesje_janssen@zonnet.nl (wiesje janssen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: 2 Oct 2003 09:44:19 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.166.102.93 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1065113060 10115 127.0.0.1 (2 Oct 2003 16:44:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:44:20 +0000 (UTC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:152449 scottgregory@yahoo.com wrote in message news:... > In article , wiesje janssen > says... > > > >Is it that long ago already? Wow, I'm getting old! Fond memories of > >ftp-ing to Simtel from an IBM-mainframe under VM/CMS. It was quite a > >hassle, getting files this way. It took a number of steps: > > Sure - but you have not used FTP, until you have used an FTP mail gateway! > Yeah! Right! I forgot! I remember we could do something like TELL BLA AT BLA and then send some command or other. That way you could have simtel send files. Indeed, you would have to piece them together. Wasn't easy with an EBCDIC machine in the middle, I remember. Anyway, hetting these files took quite a bit of time. I remember there were special RSCS commands (or HASP?) with which you could trace the files. And when they finally crossed the ocean to France, to a machine called FRMOP11 (or something like that) I was home free. Man, these kids are spoiled these days! For good measure, they should teach computer science 101 on a C64, or worse, a ZX80! > In first year, only connected computer I had access to was a Vax. It was on > BITNET, with no FTP access to places like SIMTEL. You had to email to the > BITNET-FTP gateway your commands, which were executed and the results mailed > back to you. > > Files downloaded were multi-part uuencoded emails, that tended to take some time > across the 1200kb modem of the day (in second year I bought a 2400 - and man > that was fast). > > Stitch the multi-part together, and then decode. > > Happily burned up quite a bit of CPU time that way. > > sdg ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler References: From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (windows-nt) Cancel-Lock: sha1:TRyj2OpoRnGFZyifIJ5wR+GYIkg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 21 Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:39:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.211.241.145 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net 1065116388 63.211.241.145 (Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:39:48 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:39:48 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.news2me.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:152432 wiesje_janssen@zonnet.nl (wiesje janssen) writes: > Yeah! Right! I forgot! I remember we could do something like TELL BLA > AT BLA and then send some command or other. That way you could have > simtel send files. Indeed, you would have to piece them together. > Wasn't easy with an EBCDIC machine in the middle, I remember. > Anyway, hetting these files took quite a bit of time. I remember there > were special RSCS commands (or HASP?) with which you could trace the > files. And when they finally crossed the ocean to France, to a machine > called FRMOP11 (or something like that) I was home free. Man, these > kids are spoiled these days! For good measure, they should teach > computer science 101 on a C64, or worse, a ZX80! misc. earn reference: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#65 UUCP email other past bitnet/earn (& some internal network) references: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#bitnet -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm ###### From: greymaus@yahoo.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: 2 Oct 2003 20:21:19 GMT Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: <2283.404T1695T6565448@kltpzyxm.invalid> NNTP-Posting-Host: 159.134.255.8 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1065126079 13318909 159.134.255.8 (16 [132592]) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.0 (Linux) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!159.134.255.8!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:152460 On 01 Oct 03 10:56:33 -0800, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > Although most of our mainframe printouts were your standard line > printer stuff, we had one job for which we would send tapes to a > typesetting bureau. And then one day it closed down. But we did > have an old Apple LaserWriter kicking around. So I modified the > mainframe COBOL program to spit out PostScript. Uhhh? >I then logged into > the mainframe from a PC that had a synchronous serial port and software > that emulated a UTS-20 with file transfer capability. Once I got the > PostScript file into the PC it just took a single COPY command to send > it out the serial port to the LaserWriter. Presto, camera-ready copy. > > For the first six months after we moved our payroll to direct deposit, > my Amiga 1000 was an integral part of the process. I kept it at work > (my 2500 stayed at home) and used it as my terminal on the Unix system. > (That's how I justified having an Amiga at work - they didn't have to > buy me a dumb terminal.) At payroll time I would download the cheque > file, log off the Unix box, then dial in to the bank and transfer the > file. > > I think that place was glad to be rid of me - my solutions worked > too well to be politically acceptable. :-) They probably let go before they were completely dependent on you! -- greymaus as in, Mau'ddib or Al Firan RumaiDin ###### From: wiesje_janssen@zonnet.nl (wiesje janssen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: 2 Oct 2003 17:11:33 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 49 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.166.111.16 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1065139893 947 127.0.0.1 (3 Oct 2003 00:11:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 00:11:33 +0000 (UTC) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-09!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:152703 Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote in message news:... > wiesje_janssen@zonnet.nl (wiesje janssen) writes: > > Yeah! Right! I forgot! I remember we could do something like TELL BLA > > AT BLA and then send some command or other. That way you could have > > simtel send files. Indeed, you would have to piece them together. > > Wasn't easy with an EBCDIC machine in the middle, I remember. > > Anyway, hetting these files took quite a bit of time. I remember there > > were special RSCS commands (or HASP?) with which you could trace the > > files. And when they finally crossed the ocean to France, to a machine > > called FRMOP11 (or something like that) I was home free. Man, these > > kids are spoiled these days! For good measure, they should teach > > computer science 101 on a C64, or worse, a ZX80! > > misc. earn reference: > http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#65 UUCP email > > other past bitnet/earn (& some internal network) references: > http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#bitnet Hey thanks! That sure brought back a lot of memories. Well, still a little incomplete though, my memories that is. But anyways here goes. I think it went something like this. 1. To see the files that were in a particular directory. TELL ???? AT ???? /PDDIR that would get a file with the directory of the directory filutl. Hmmm, was it a file or messages on the console? That I don't remember 2. actually getting a file TELL ???? AT ???? /PDGET:PC-FLIST.ARC that would get you the file in the reader (in pieces, as far as I remember). In this case a msdos lookalike of the vm-cms flist utility. Perhaps I have the colon in the false place though. Anyway, after the tell command was completed a message was displayed at the console with a number in it. That number was the spool-id of the file. To see its whereabouts you would type: SMSG RSCS query spoolid queue (or something like it) Damn! I know I had all of this stuff jotted down in a little notebook for reference. It should be here somewhere, but where? Especially I'd like to know what should be in the place of the question marks. Was it SIMTEL AT HEARN? Perhaps we should make write-ups of (historical) routines like this, in commemoration of Simtel. ###### From: "Bruce H. McIntosh" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:56:32 -0400 Organization: Alachua Freenet - Busy signals? WHAT busy signals? Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: caledonia.nerdc.ufl.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu 1066730099 31828 128.227.212.135 (21 Oct 2003 09:54:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@ufl.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:54:59 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Pan/0.14.2 (This is not a psychotic episode. It's a cleansing moment of clarity.) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeeds.nerdc.ufl.edu!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:153731 On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 05:12:24 -0700, scottgregory wrote: > In article , wiesje janssen > says... >> >>Is it that long ago already? Wow, I'm getting old! Fond memories of >>ftp-ing to Simtel from an IBM-mainframe under VM/CMS. It was quite a >>hassle, getting files this way. It took a number of steps: > > Sure - but you have not used FTP, until you have used an FTP mail gateway! > > In first year, only connected computer I had access to was a Vax. It was on > BITNET, with no FTP access to places like SIMTEL. You had to email to the > BITNET-FTP gateway your commands, which were executed and the results mailed > back to you. > > Files downloaded were multi-part uuencoded emails, that tended to take some time > across the 1200kb modem of the day (in second year I bought a 2400 - and man > that was fast). I used to work at NASA/Goddard (SCFVM SCFMVS and VPFVM were the BITNET nodes). I finally got sick of 1200, and started lugging my H-89 into work with me and using a serial cable I'd snaked into the machine room to hook directly to one of the 3705 FEPs at 9600 bps. Nirvana! :-) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bruce H. McIntosh scotsman@afn.org http://www.afn.org/~scotsman KG4WKY ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Network geek with a strong affinity for Telecasters ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 35 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:16:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1066752999 24.71.223.147 (Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:16:39 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:16:39 MDT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-out1.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.nuthinbutnews.com!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!167.206.3.103.MISMATCH!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:153748 On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:56:32 -0400 in alt.folklore.computers, "Bruce H. McIntosh" wrote: >On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 05:12:24 -0700, scottgregory wrote: > >> In article , wiesje janssen >> says... >>> >>>Is it that long ago already? Wow, I'm getting old! Fond memories of >>>ftp-ing to Simtel from an IBM-mainframe under VM/CMS. It was quite a >>>hassle, getting files this way. It took a number of steps: >> >> Sure - but you have not used FTP, until you have used an FTP mail gateway! >> >> In first year, only connected computer I had access to was a Vax. It was on >> BITNET, with no FTP access to places like SIMTEL. You had to email to the >> BITNET-FTP gateway your commands, which were executed and the results mailed >> back to you. >> >> Files downloaded were multi-part uuencoded emails, that tended to take some time >> across the 1200kb modem of the day (in second year I bought a 2400 - and man >> that was fast). > >I used to work at NASA/Goddard (SCFVM SCFMVS and VPFVM were the BITNET >nodes). I finally got sick of 1200, and started lugging my H-89 into work >with me and using a serial cable I'd snaked into the machine room to hook >directly to one of the 3705 FEPs at 9600 bps. Nirvana! :-) Ugh -- poor response compared to local attached 3270 cluster terminals -- didn't they provide 3278s to users? Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:14:46 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: User-Agent: tin/1.6.1-20030810 ("Mingulay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.8-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 32 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:153759 In alt.folklore.computers Brian Inglis wrote: >>> >>> Sure - but you have not used FTP, until you have used an FTP mail gateway! >>> >>> In first year, only connected computer I had access to was a Vax. It was on >>> BITNET, with no FTP access to places like SIMTEL. You had to email to the >>> BITNET-FTP gateway your commands, which were executed and the results mailed >>> back to you. >>> >>> Files downloaded were multi-part uuencoded emails, that tended to take some time >>> across the 1200kb modem of the day (in second year I bought a 2400 - and man >>> that was fast). >> >>I used to work at NASA/Goddard (SCFVM SCFMVS and VPFVM were the BITNET >>nodes). I finally got sick of 1200, and started lugging my H-89 into work >>with me and using a serial cable I'd snaked into the machine room to hook >>directly to one of the 3705 FEPs at 9600 bps. Nirvana! :-) > > Ugh -- poor response compared to local attached 3270 cluster > terminals -- didn't they provide 3278s to users? Ah, in t'owd days at one point I had to PAD over to uk.ac.nsfnet-relay to use the ftp client there, pull it with Coloured Book over JANET to a machine on my employers' network, and then ftp or email it across to the box I wanted to use it on.... It did kind of deter you from casual downloads. pete -- pete@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" HMHB ###### From: Harold F. Bower Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Message-ID: <20031021142413.69c18a46.HalBower@worldnet.att.net> References: Organization: home X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.6 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:20:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.91.174.77 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1066764030 12.91.174.77 (Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:20:30 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:20:30 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-out1.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.nuthinbutnews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!wn14feed!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:153761 On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:56:32 -0400 "Bruce H. McIntosh" wrote: > I used to work at NASA/Goddard (SCFVM SCFMVS and VPFVM were the BITNET > nodes). I finally got sick of 1200, and started lugging my H-89 into > work with me and using a serial cable I'd snaked into the machine room > to hook directly to one of the 3705 FEPs at 9600 bps. Nirvana! :-) In the early/mid '80s, I started accessing SIMTEL (and the INFO-CPM list) at 1200 bps via an ARPA link in Germany. Got a kermit written in Turbo Pascal 2 for CP/M in the form of 12 E-Mails, compiled and ran it (after fixing the binary transfer code) on an Ampro Little Board into a TAC. Used that config to download a working IBM PC version for the H100s in the office, but I stayed with the Ampro for a couple of years, only changing from the 1200 bps modem to a 9600 direct line into a TAC .. Amen on Nirvana! Hal ###### From: Lon Stowell Reply-To: LonDot.Stowell@ComcastPeriod.Net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 42 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.240.77.188 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: sccrnsc03 1066784083 12.240.77.188 (Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:54:43 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:54:43 GMT Organization: Comcast Online Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:54:43 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!sccrnsc03.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:153771 Approximately 10/21/03 09:16, Brian Inglis uttered for posterity: > On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:56:32 -0400 in alt.folklore.computers, > "Bruce H. McIntosh" wrote: > >>On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 05:12:24 -0700, scottgregory wrote: >> >>> In article , wiesje janssen >>> says... >>>> >>>>Is it that long ago already? Wow, I'm getting old! Fond memories of >>>>ftp-ing to Simtel from an IBM-mainframe under VM/CMS. It was quite a >>>>hassle, getting files this way. It took a number of steps: >>> >>> Sure - but you have not used FTP, until you have used an FTP mail gateway! >>> >>> In first year, only connected computer I had access to was a Vax. It was on >>> BITNET, with no FTP access to places like SIMTEL. You had to email to the >>> BITNET-FTP gateway your commands, which were executed and the results mailed >>> back to you. >>> >>> Files downloaded were multi-part uuencoded emails, that tended to take some time >>> across the 1200kb modem of the day (in second year I bought a 2400 - and man >>> that was fast). >> >>I used to work at NASA/Goddard (SCFVM SCFMVS and VPFVM were the BITNET >>nodes). I finally got sick of 1200, and started lugging my H-89 into work >>with me and using a serial cable I'd snaked into the machine room to hook >>directly to one of the 3705 FEPs at 9600 bps. Nirvana! :-) > > Ugh -- poor response compared to local attached 3270 cluster > terminals -- didn't they provide 3278s to users? Yeah, but I got tired of the slow response time from the 3274L attached to the Byte Mux channel, so I snuck into the datacenter and moved the Bus/Tag cables to the DataStreaming Block Mux input...not having an ESCON convertor in my pocket of course. -- My governor can kick your governor's ass ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 51 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:53:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1066798391 24.71.223.147 (Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:53:11 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:53:11 MDT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:153780 On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:54:43 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, Lon Stowell wrote: >Approximately 10/21/03 09:16, Brian Inglis uttered for posterity: > >> On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:56:32 -0400 in alt.folklore.computers, >> "Bruce H. McIntosh" wrote: >> >>>On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 05:12:24 -0700, scottgregory wrote: >>> >>>> In article , wiesje janssen >>>> says... >>>>> >>>>>Is it that long ago already? Wow, I'm getting old! Fond memories of >>>>>ftp-ing to Simtel from an IBM-mainframe under VM/CMS. It was quite a >>>>>hassle, getting files this way. It took a number of steps: >>>> >>>> Sure - but you have not used FTP, until you have used an FTP mail gateway! >>>> >>>> In first year, only connected computer I had access to was a Vax. It was on >>>> BITNET, with no FTP access to places like SIMTEL. You had to email to the >>>> BITNET-FTP gateway your commands, which were executed and the results mailed >>>> back to you. >>>> >>>> Files downloaded were multi-part uuencoded emails, that tended to take some time >>>> across the 1200kb modem of the day (in second year I bought a 2400 - and man >>>> that was fast). >>> >>>I used to work at NASA/Goddard (SCFVM SCFMVS and VPFVM were the BITNET >>>nodes). I finally got sick of 1200, and started lugging my H-89 into work >>>with me and using a serial cable I'd snaked into the machine room to hook >>>directly to one of the 3705 FEPs at 9600 bps. Nirvana! :-) >> >> Ugh -- poor response compared to local attached 3270 cluster >> terminals -- didn't they provide 3278s to users? > > Yeah, but I got tired of the slow response time from the 3274L > attached to the Byte Mux channel, so I snuck into the datacenter > and moved the Bus/Tag cables to the DataStreaming Block Mux > input...not having an ESCON convertor in my pocket of course. Did you just halt the CPU or did you power down the system? Hopefully there were no other device types on the block channel -- 3274Ls do not mix well on channels with tapes or disks -- and should never go on byte channels -- byte channels are only for slow U/R devices like consoles, printers, card devices. Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: abuse@mooli.org.uk (Peter Corlett) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:43:28 +0000 (UTC) Organization: cabal.org.uk news service, Leeds, UK. Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: mooli.org.uk X-Trace: mooli.org.uk 1066945408 9792 195.92.99.54 (23 Oct 2003 21:43:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@mooli.org.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:43:28 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: abuse@mooli.org.uk (Peter Corlett) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!news.tu-darmstadt.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!lon1-news.nildram.net!news-peer.gradwell.net!news.cabal.org.uk!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:153869 Pete Fenelon wrote: [...] > Ah, in t'owd days at one point I had to PAD over to uk.ac.nsfnet-relay to > use the ftp client there, pull it with Coloured Book over JANET to a > machine on my employers' network, and then ftp or email it across to the > box I wanted to use it on.... > It did kind of deter you from casual downloads. It momentarily deterred me, until I learnt enough VAX C to hack something to do it automatically so I could pull stuff from outside of JANET back to base. It was then open season on ab20.larc.nasa.gov's FTP site. Then they went and invented HTTP which even lets the plebs download stuff, the bastards. ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:40:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1066948825 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:40:25 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:40:25 MDT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!newsfeed.telus.net!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:153870 On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:43:28 +0000 (UTC) in alt.folklore.computers, abuse@mooli.org.uk (Peter Corlett) wrote: >Pete Fenelon wrote: >[...] >> Ah, in t'owd days at one point I had to PAD over to uk.ac.nsfnet-relay to >> use the ftp client there, pull it with Coloured Book over JANET to a >> machine on my employers' network, and then ftp or email it across to the >> box I wanted to use it on.... > >> It did kind of deter you from casual downloads. > >It momentarily deterred me, until I learnt enough VAX C to hack something to >do it automatically so I could pull stuff from outside of JANET back to >base. It was then open season on ab20.larc.nasa.gov's FTP site. > >Then they went and invented HTTP which even lets the plebs download stuff, >the bastards. Even without HTTP, the web browser interface to anonymous FTP is a lot nicer to use to browse for tasty goodies, neh? Can't remember the last time I used "ftp node" -- I only remember it being a p.i.t.a. to script (no useful return code -- guess I should have used expect instead) and to have to mkdir and cd to a temp ftp dir to make it easier to chmod permissions after mget or mput, then mv and rmdir the files after. Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: 23 Oct 03 16:22:21 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 29 Message-ID: <1315.426T1089T9824042@kltpzyxm.invalid> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-386.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:153908 In article Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca (Brian Inglis) writes: >Even without HTTP, the web browser interface to anonymous FTP is >a lot nicer to use to browse for tasty goodies, neh? Nicer still is an FTP client that puts up two file lists (local and remote), like those directory manager utilities. As a dyed-in-the-wool web hater, I find this a much better solution. >Can't remember the last time I used "ftp node" -- I only remember >it being a p.i.t.a. to script (no useful return code -- guess I >should have used expect instead) and to have to mkdir and cd to a >temp ftp dir to make it easier to chmod permissions after mget or >mput, then mv and rmdir the files after. Now a good scriptable FTP program would be something I can use. So far the only one I've found came standard on my Win98 box, which starts to feel like that mouthwash ad: "I hate it, but I use it - twice a day". (A lot more than that, actually, since I'm doing multiplatform development and send lots of source code all over the place.) -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign! ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: <1315.426T1089T9824042@kltpzyxm.invalid> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 00:17:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1067041039 24.71.223.147 (Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:17:19 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:17:19 MDT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.vmunix.org!peer02.cox.net!cox.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:153915 On 23 Oct 03 16:22:21 -0800 in alt.folklore.computers, "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >In article >Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca (Brian Inglis) writes: > >>Even without HTTP, the web browser interface to anonymous FTP is >>a lot nicer to use to browse for tasty goodies, neh? > >Nicer still is an FTP client that puts up two file lists (local >and remote), like those directory manager utilities. As a >dyed-in-the-wool web hater, I find this a much better solution. > >>Can't remember the last time I used "ftp node" -- I only remember >>it being a p.i.t.a. to script (no useful return code -- guess I >>should have used expect instead) and to have to mkdir and cd to a >>temp ftp dir to make it easier to chmod permissions after mget or >>mput, then mv and rmdir the files after. > >Now a good scriptable FTP program would be something I can use. >So far the only one I've found came standard on my Win98 box, >which starts to feel like that mouthwash ad: "I hate it, but >I use it - twice a day". (A lot more than that, actually, >since I'm doing multiplatform development and send lots of >source code all over the place.) AFAIK all the standard command line FTP programs are scriptable by input redirection (or command files on non-*IX-like systems), whatever is supported by the platform. Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### Message-ID: <3F99D58B.A5D7C575@acm.org> From: Dave Tweed Organization: Embedded Computer Engineering X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today References: <1315.426T1089T9824042@kltpzyxm.invalid> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 9 Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 01:57:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.166.235.101 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1067047048 68.166.235.101 (Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:57:28 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:57:28 EDT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!bos-service1.ext.raytheon.com!cyclone.swbell.net!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!2d63e793!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:153916 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > Now a good scriptable FTP program would be something I can use. A Perl script that makes use of the Net::FTP module is about as flexible and powerful as you can get. I used such a script for several years to keep multiple web servers in sync with the content directories on my main machine. -- Dave Tweed ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: 27 Oct 2003 02:24:38 -0500 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <1315.426T1089T9824042@kltpzyxm.invalid> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix5.panix.com X-Trace: reader1.panix.com 1067239478 23575 166.84.1.5 (27 Oct 2003 07:24:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:24:38 +0000 (UTC) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!panix!panix5.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:154013 >Nicer still is an FTP client that puts up two file lists (local >and remote), like those directory manager utilities. As a >dyed-in-the-wool web hater, I find this a much better solution. Some M$ ftp programs do that. I'm still a command line type of guy, using sftp (secure ftp) and ssh from Linux to NetBSD. >>Can't remember the last time I used "ftp node" -- I only remember >>it being a p.i.t.a. to script (no useful return code -- guess I >>should have used expect instead) and to have to mkdir and cd to a >>temp ftp dir to make it easier to chmod permissions after mget or >>mput, then mv and rmdir the files after. >Now a good scriptable FTP program would be something I can use. Linux has many solutions, such as "wget" for snarfing files via http, ftp and such. And there are libraries to use Perl without fork/exec for all the real work. ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:47:32 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Dragonhill Systems Lines: 19 Message-ID: <1067366804snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3F99D58B.A5D7C575@acm.org> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1067377652 15360 10.0.0.1 (28 Oct 2003 21:47:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:47:32 +0000 (UTC) X-Received: from dsl.demon.co.uk ([158.152.92.150]) by news.demon.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEbgZ-0003zb-00 for mail2news@news.demon.co.uk; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:47:32 +0000 X-Path: dsl.co.uk!bhk X-To: mail2news@news.demon.co.uk X-Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 X-Lines: 18 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!mutlu.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!bhk Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:154093 In article <3F99D58B.A5D7C575@acm.org> dtweed@acm.org "Dave Tweed" writes: > Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > Now a good scriptable FTP program would be something I can use. > > A Perl script that makes use of the Net::FTP module is about as flexible > and powerful as you can get. I used such a script for several years to > keep multiple web servers in sync with the content directories on my main > machine. Ditto a REXX script that uses the rxftp library (that comes as standard with OS/2 and eComStation). -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We can no longer stand apart from Europe if we would. Yet we are untrained to mix with our neighbours, or even talk to them". George Macaulay Trevelyan, 1919 ###### From: abuse@mooli.org.uk (Peter Corlett) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:22:02 +0000 (UTC) Organization: cabal.org.uk news service, Leeds, UK. Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <1315.426T1089T9824042@kltpzyxm.invalid> NNTP-Posting-Host: mooli.org.uk X-Trace: mooli.org.uk 1067556122 6760 195.92.99.54 (30 Oct 2003 23:22:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@mooli.org.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:22:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: abuse@mooli.org.uk (Peter Corlett) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!zen.net.uk!195.92.99.54.MISMATCH!news.mooli.org.uk!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:154199 Charlie Gibbs wrote: [...] > Now a good scriptable FTP program would be something I can use. So far the > only one I've found came standard on my Win98 box, which starts to feel > like that mouthwash ad: "I hate it, but I use it - twice a day". (A lot > more than that, actually, since I'm doing multiplatform development and > send lots of source code all over the place.) Awfully offtopic, but I find rsync-over-ssh is very good for bulk transfers between systems distributed across the Internet. For local use, NFS and Samba work fine for me. It's a lot easier to maintain backups and organise data if it's held centrally, after all. About the only thing I still need to run a FTP daemon for is that I'm providing web hosting for somebody[1] using an Amiga 4000[0] to upload. Users on more contemporary computers prefer to use shell accounts and/or scp. [0] Look ma, it's over ten years old so ontopic :) [1] His professionally-written website about emulation of all sorts of systems at http://www.simon.mooli.org.uk/ would certainly be of interest to many people here. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.cpm Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today References: <1315.426T1089T9824042@kltpzyxm.invalid> Organization: me From: Morten Reistad X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: mrr@via.reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) Message-ID: Lines: 29 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:00:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.217.4.55 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tele2.no X-Trace: juliett.dax.net 1067594401 193.217.4.55 (Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:00:01 MET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:00:01 MET Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!news2.euro.net!fi.sn.net!newsfeed2.fi.sn.net!news.eunet.no!dax.net!juliett.dax.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:154213 In article , Peter Corlett wrote: >Charlie Gibbs wrote: >[...] >> Now a good scriptable FTP program would be something I can use. So far the >> only one I've found came standard on my Win98 box, which starts to feel >> like that mouthwash ad: "I hate it, but I use it - twice a day". (A lot >> more than that, actually, since I'm doing multiplatform development and >> send lots of source code all over the place.) > >Awfully offtopic, but I find rsync-over-ssh is very good for bulk transfers >between systems distributed across the Internet. For local use, NFS and >Samba work fine for me. It's a lot easier to maintain backups and organise >data if it's held centrally, after all. > >About the only thing I still need to run a FTP daemon for is that I'm >providing web hosting for somebody[1] using an Amiga 4000[0] to upload. >Users on more contemporary computers prefer to use shell accounts and/or >scp. Yesterday it was 10 years since I saw the "web" for the first time, with the Paris Interop 1993 demo of http, a browser (ncsa 0.something), a web server, and it almost worked without a hitch. So, today the web began to be on-topic here. >[0] Look ma, it's over ten years old so ontopic :) -- mrr ###### Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 04:42:44 -0800 From: Lars Poulsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en, da MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today References: <1315.426T1089T9824042@kltpzyxm.invalid> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 43 Message-ID: <3fa2590d$0$190@news.impulse.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.154.106.6 X-Trace: azure.impulse.net 1067604237 190 207.154.106.6 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.online.be!sienna.impulse.net!azure.impulse.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:154222 Morten Reistad wrote: > Yesterday it was 10 years since I saw the "web" for the first time, > with the Paris Interop 1993 demo of http, a browser (ncsa 0.something), > a web server, and it almost worked without a hitch. I, too, was at the Paris InterOp 1993. Although I had been living and working in California since 1980, I was spending a year in Copenhagen and telecommuting to work in California with a computer lab in my upstairs bedroom. But it was lonely on this outpost, and I wanted to meet other 'net people, so I hit on the idea of signing up to be a shownet volunteer. I was after all a developer of router code, albeit very low-end routers. (Our product was a Small Office / Home Office dial-on-demand internet access gateway box known as the CMC NetHopper, later the Rockwell NetHopper.) I had used the web for years, but without pictures. In fact I thought that pictures were useless fluff, eating up way too much bandwidth for the amount of information they conveyed. I did have a Sun 3/80 workstation, but normally it displayed 3 shell command windows. I think it was in January 1991 that I met Tim Berners-Lee at the Internet Engineering Task Force meeting in San Diego, where he told about the original motivation for the web: A unified help system for the many different types of computers at CERN (European Center for Nuclear Research). The InterOp shownet people did not quite know what to do with a middle-aged first-time volunteer without operational experience in OSPF and BGP backbone router configuration. I had hoped they would let me be a go-fer in the NOC (Network Operations Center) but once I saw who was staffing that, I understood why I would only be in the way there. Instead they put me in the pool of under- graduate students in tier 1 support, running out to the booths to check "is it really plugged in" etc. It was still a good experience; I got to see many "best practices" of large-scale network operations, which I normally had no visi- bility of, when I was working in a facility with only 60 people total. (Even less these days, in a 4-person startup.) -- / Lars Poulsen +1-805-569-5277 http://www.beagle-ears.com/lars/ 125 South Ontare Rd, Santa Barbara, CA 93105 USA lars@beagle-ears.com ###### From: rogblake10@iname10.com (Roger Blake) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today References: <1315.426T1089T9824042@kltpzyxm.invalid> <3fa2590d$0$190@news.impulse.net> Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks X-No-Archive: Yes Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Lines: 10 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:52:49 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.8.186.4 X-Complaints-To: Abuse Role , We Care X-Trace: monger.newsread.com 1067604769 207.8.186.4 (Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:52:49 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:52:49 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!diablo.voicenet.com!yellow.newsread.com!news-toy.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!POSTED.monger.newsread.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:154223 On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 04:42:44 -0800, Lars Poulsen wrote: > ...In fact I thought >that pictures were useless fluff, eating up way too much bandwidth >for the amount of information they conveyed. I personally still believe that. -- Roger Blake (Subtract 10 for email.) ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: 31 Oct 03 09:48:13 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: <836.434T656T5883741@kltpzyxm.invalid> References: <1315.426T1089T9824042@kltpzyxm.invalid> <3fa2590d$0$190@news.impulse.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-736.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:154233 In article rogblake10@iname10.com (Roger Blake) writes: >On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 04:42:44 -0800, Lars Poulsen >wrote: > >> ...In fact I thought >>that pictures were useless fluff, eating up way too much bandwidth >>for the amount of information they conveyed. > >I personally still believe that. As do I. It's like searching the TV channels for a good documentary when all I can find is fluff like Entertainment Tonight. But the purpose of the Web, like television, has changed from information to entertainment. Bleah. -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign! ###### Message-ID: <3FA3040D.12886206@comcast.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@nospam.plano.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today References: <1315.426T1089T9824042@kltpzyxm.invalid> <3fa2590d$0$190@news.impulse.net> <836.434T656T5883741@kltpzyxm.invalid> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.1.126.198 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s54 1067641084 24.1.126.198 (Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:58:04 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:58:04 GMT Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 22:58:04 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!attla2!ip.att.net!attbi_feed3!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!attbi_s54.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:154235 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > In article > rogblake10@iname10.com (Roger Blake) writes: > > >On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 04:42:44 -0800, Lars Poulsen > >wrote: > > > >> ...In fact I thought > >>that pictures were useless fluff, eating up way too much bandwidth > >>for the amount of information they conveyed. > > > >I personally still believe that. > > As do I. It's like searching the TV channels for a good documentary > when all I can find is fluff like Entertainment Tonight. But the > purpose of the Web, like television, has changed from information > to entertainment. Bleah. > No, no...the web is "infotainment"... ;-) -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: 1 Nov 2003 09:53:03 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <1315.426T1089T9824042@kltpzyxm.invalid> <3fa2590d$0$190@news.impulse.net> <836.434T656T5883741@kltpzyxm.invalid> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: smeagol X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1067680383 12331 134.117.136.48 (1 Nov 2003 09:53:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Nov 2003 09:53:03 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@smeagol.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:154239 "Charlie Gibbs" (cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid) writes: > In article > rogblake10@iname10.com (Roger Blake) writes: > >>On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 04:42:44 -0800, Lars Poulsen >>wrote: >> >>> ...In fact I thought >>>that pictures were useless fluff, eating up way too much bandwidth >>>for the amount of information they conveyed. >> >>I personally still believe that. That goes for streaming radio, web cams ("Oh look, she's brushing her teeth!"), and most of the World Wide Wait. Back to punched cards, I say. If you are forced to carry your data, 2 or 3 boxes of cards at 2000 per box limits the amount of crap that can be sent at a time. > > As do I. It's like searching the TV channels for a good documentary > when all I can find is fluff like Entertainment Tonight. But the > purpose of the Web, like television, has changed from information > to entertainment. Bleah. ENTERTAINMENT? Try endless goddam commercials. Or on public broadcasting, 5+ minutes of "Coming up later tonight/this week/ this month ..." with a begging session every 3 or 4 months. (TVO - you know who you are! B-) ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today References: <1315.426T1089T9824042@kltpzyxm.invalid> <3fa2590d$0$190@news.impulse.net> From: Charlton Wilbur Message-ID: <873cd55qko.fsf@mithril.chromatico.net> Lines: 25 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:15:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.154.150.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1067879705 141.154.150.52 (Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:15:05 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:15:05 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!167.206.3.103.MISMATCH!news3.optonline.net!peer02.cox.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:154297 >>>>> "RB" == Roger Blake writes: RB> On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 04:42:44 -0800, Lars Poulsen RB> wrote: >> ...In fact I thought that pictures were useless fluff, eating >> up way too much bandwidth for the amount of information they >> conveyed. RB> I personally still believe that. I think that for the vast majority of pictures, that's true -- but then you come across a diagram, or an illustration, or a map, or a photograph that makes it all clear, and *that* picture is worth the bandwidth. And there's still an amazing amount of information on the Web; it's just that a good part of it is private (i.e., password-protected), a good part of it is wrong or out-of-date, and it's easy to miss because of all the advertising and entertainment nonsense. Charlton -- cwilbur at chromatico dot net cwilbur at mac dot com ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: 03 Nov 03 10:27:17 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: <1147.437T878T6274183@kltpzyxm.invalid> References: <1315.426T1089T9824042@kltpzyxm.invalid> <3fa2590d$0$190@news.impulse.net> <873cd55qko.fsf@mithril.chromatico.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-336.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:154302 In article <873cd55qko.fsf@mithril.chromatico.net> cwilbur@mithril.chromatico.net (Charlton Wilbur) writes: >And there's still an amazing amount of information on the Web; it's >just that a good part of it is private (i.e., password-protected), a >good part of it is wrong or out-of-date, and it's easy to miss because >of all the advertising and entertainment nonsense. Charlie's First Law of Documentation states: "If you can't find it in the manual, it isn't documented." Note that this says nothing about whether the information actually _is_ in the manual - just whether you can find it. And that's the real pity about the Web - there's so much good information out there that's so buried in advertising and fluff that we'll never find it. If I can puzzle out something on my own faster than I can find (and decipher!) information on the Web, then that information might as well not exist. -- /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way. X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign! ###### From: "nm" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: wsmr-simtel20 shut down 10 years ago today Date: 13 Nov 2003 09:47:37 +0200 Organization: GRNET, Greece Lines: 43 Sender: "nm" Message-ID: <3fb33719$1@news.sch.gr> References: Reply-To: "nm" NNTP-Posting-Host: nicold.thess.sch.gr X-Trace: nic.grnet.gr 1068710518 7905 194.63.237.10 (13 Nov 2003 08:01:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@grnet.gr NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:01:58 +0000 (UTC) X-User-Info: 194.63.206.28 nikmatanas X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.63.206.28 X-Original-Trace: 13 Nov 2003 09:47:37 +0200, 194.63.206.28 X-Authenticated-User: nikmatanas Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.grnet.gr!news.sch.gr Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:154908 Pete Fenelon wrote: >In alt.folklore.computers Brian Inglis wrote: >>>> >>>> Sure - but you have not used FTP, until you have used an FTP mail gateway! >>>> >>>> In first year, only connected computer I had access to was a Vax. It was on >>>> BITNET, with no FTP access to places like SIMTEL. You had to email to the >>>> BITNET-FTP gateway your commands, which were executed and the results mailed >>>> back to you. >>>> >>>> Files downloaded were multi-part uuencoded emails, that tended to take some time >>>> across the 1200kb modem of the day (in second year I bought a 2400 - and man >>>> that was fast). >>> >>>I used to work at NASA/Goddard (SCFVM SCFMVS and VPFVM were the BITNET >>>nodes). I finally got sick of 1200, and started lugging my H-89 into work >>>with me and using a serial cable I'd snaked into the machine room to hook >>>directly to one of the 3705 FEPs at 9600 bps. Nirvana! :-) >> >> Ugh -- poor response compared to local attached 3270 cluster >> terminals -- didn't they provide 3278s to users? > >Ah, in t'owd days at one point I had to PAD over to uk.ac.nsfnet-relay >to use the ftp client there, pull it with Coloured Book over JANET >to a machine on my employers' network, and then ftp or email it >across to the box I wanted to use it on.... > >It did kind of deter you from casual downloads. > >pete >-- >pete@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" HMHB > nm