From: Larry__Weiss Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 22:24:54 -0500 Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 4 Message-ID: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 22:27:09 -0500 (CDT) NNTP-Posting-Host: !ctt!1k-XXiXi7A7O&KF (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147637 I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? ###### From: "Bill Leary" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Lines: 19 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.62.104.75 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: rwcrnsc53 1059882761 24.62.104.75 (Sun, 03 Aug 2003 03:52:41 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 03:52:41 GMT Organization: Comcast Online Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 03:52:41 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!rwcrnsc53.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147639 "Larry__Weiss" wrote in message news:3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net... > I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents > that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just > the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here > remember this sort of documentation? Yes. > Has anyone preserved some samples? Yes. I'll see if I can dig up an example over the weekend. - Bill ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 21:26:35 -0700 Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: il0502a-dhcp234.apple.com X-Trace: news.apple.com 1059884795 29896 17.205.24.234 (3 Aug 2003 04:26:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@news.apple.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 04:26:35 +0000 (UTC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!chi1.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!newsfeed1.sea.pnap.net!newsfeed.pnap.net!forum.apple.com!news.apple.com!il0502a-dhcp234.apple.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147665 In article <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net>, Larry__Weiss wrote: > I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents > that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just > the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here > remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? IBM 360 software documentation is full of those. www.spies.com/aek/pdf/ibm/360/Y28-6614-4_utilitiesPLM.pdf for example. ###### From: arargh307NOSPAM@NOW.AT.arargh.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 23:27:44 -0500 Organization: Not Really! Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tcr214.dynip.ripco.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: e250.ripco.com 1059884883 16640 209.100.226.214 (3 Aug 2003 04:28:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ripco.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 04:28:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out1.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!In.nntp.be!gail.ripco.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147669 On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 22:24:54 -0500, Larry__Weiss wrote: >I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents >that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just >the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here >remember this sort of documentation? Sure. >Has anyone preserved some samples? I have a whole bunch of IBM manuals dating from the early 70's that were all created that way. -- Arargh307 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html To reply by email, remove the garbage from the reply address. ###### From: "Russ Holsclaw" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Lines: 60 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <0g0Xa.67$y95.144708@news.uswest.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 22:36:37 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.4.91.148 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1059885180 67.4.91.148 (Sat, 02 Aug 2003 23:33:00 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 23:33:00 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147659 > I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents > that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just > the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here > remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? The logic diagrams that IBM used in 2nd and 3rd generation computers (1400 and 7000-series computers, and the 360's and 370's, were all printed on 1403 printers. For the 350's, IBM produced an internal-use-only type-train that printed small characters sideways. These were used on specially equipped 1403 printers that could be set to print 15 lines per inch. Since it was printing sideways, this translated into 15 characters per inch horizontal and 10 lpi vertically. The typeset included a full set of alphanumeric characters and special characters (pretty much the whole upper-case EBCDIC set) plus a full set of line-drawing characters, similar. IBM's software for producing logic diagrams was designed to print using this character set, onto paper that was something like 15 by 22 inches in size ... the same size used in IBM's big logic diagram binders. The location where I worked in Raleigh, NC had one of these typetrains and the special printer to use it on, since logics were occasionally produced by the Tools and Test Equipment department where I worked. There was a flowcharting program produced by the old Applied Data Research company, one of the earliest ISV's, called Autoflow. It produced flowcharts using normal EBCDIC characters. When making boxes, it just used hyphens for horizontal lines, OR-bars for vertical lines, and plus-signs for all corners. Each flowchart "page" was printed onto two consecutive pages of standard printer paper, so they came out 22 inches long. I wrote a program to reformat the output from Autoflow using the special sideways type-train for logics. This saved paper, and made the flowcharts more compact. It even selected the "corner" graphic characters to substitute for the plus-signs based on the horizontally- and vertically-adjacent characters. Alas, I have no sample printouts from this, I'm afraid. IBM had its own flowcharting program, too, but not nearly as "smart" as ADR's Autoflow, which could flowchart programs written in a variety of languages, including Assembler. An IBM program that was supposed to do this was not very good. It just drew the right shape box around the text of each line of code, and made extensive use of on- and off-page "baloon" connectors to tie the flowchart together. Autoflow, on the other hand, used sophistical algorithms to detect the true structure of a program, and then diagrammed it in a way much like what you'd expect a human fiagrammer to do, with minimal cross-page connections. I was able to use it to help me figure out a lot of uncommented assembler code I had inherited. It was quite brilliant. I gather it was one of the first programs ever to receive a patent. That was quite rare in those days. ###### From: arargh307NOSPAM@NOW.AT.arargh.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 23:43:17 -0500 Organization: Not Really! Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> <0g0Xa.67$y95.144708@news.uswest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tcr214.dynip.ripco.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: e250.ripco.com 1059885815 17898 209.100.226.214 (3 Aug 2003 04:43:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ripco.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 04:43:35 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out1.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!In.nntp.be!gail.ripco.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147640 On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 22:36:37 -0600, "Russ Holsclaw" wrote: > There was a flowcharting program produced by the old Applied >Data Research company, one of the earliest ISV's, called >Autoflow. It produced flowcharts using normal EBCDIC characters. >When making boxes, it just used hyphens for horizontal lines, >OR-bars for vertical lines, and plus-signs for all corners. Each >flowchart "page" was printed onto two consecutive pages of >standard printer paper, so they came out 22 inches long. I wrote >a program to reformat the output from Autoflow using the special >sideways type-train for logics. This saved paper, and made the >flowcharts more compact. It even selected the "corner" graphic >characters to substitute for the plus-signs based on the >horizontally- and vertically-adjacent characters. > >Alas, I have no sample printouts from this, I'm afraid. If I can find it, I do have a sample of one. IIRC, the chart was of a program called 'TEXT360'. > -- Arargh307 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html To reply by email, remove the garbage from the reply address. ###### From: stanislav shalunov Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Date: 03 Aug 2003 01:17:31 -0400 Organization: Internet2 Lines: 18 Message-ID: <87vftfjp5g.fsf@cain.internet2.edu> References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: basie.internet2.edu X-Trace: pith.uoregon.edu 1059888564 4614 207.75.164.22 (3 Aug 2003 05:29:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@news.uoregon.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 05:29:24 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147662 Larry__Weiss writes: > I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in > old documents that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts > were produced using just the character set of available > character-only printers. Does anyone else here remember this sort > of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? Are you talking about something like the diagrams in the RFC series? (A fairly complicated---and important--example is Figure 6 on page 23 of RFC 793, .) RFCs are still produced, and much used by Internet protocol implementors, today. -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ Letters in this message are closer than they appear. ###### Message-ID: <3f2cb845$0$56604$bed64819@pubnews.gradwell.net> From: Geoff Lane Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> Organization: SIGHUP User-Agent: tin/1.4.1-19991201 ("Polish") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.20-19.8 (i686)) Date: 03 Aug 2003 07:22:45 GMT Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Date: 03 Aug 2003 07:22:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.187.192.130 X-Trace: 1059895365 pubnews.gradwell.net 56604 81.187.192.130 X-Complaints-To: pubnews-abuse@gradwell.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!proxad.net!proxad.net!195.40.0.160.MISMATCH!easynet-thlon3!easynet.net!news-peer-lilac.gradwell.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147668 Larry__Weiss wrote: > I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents > that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just > the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here > remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? Compiler Construction David Gries Wiley, 1971 ISBN 0-471-32771-9 Was printed from camera read copy printed on a chain printer attached to an IBM 360/65. Almost all of the text, tables and diagrams use only the text and graphics characters available on the printer chain. -- Geoff Lane ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 11:50:14 +0100 Message-ID: <6dpigb.3rm2.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Date: 03 Aug 2003 10:58:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.3.247.95 X-Trace: 1059908325 news.gradwell.net 56602 cbh/80.3.247.95 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@gradwell.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!nntp.theplanet.net!inewsm1.nntp.theplanet.net!zen.net.uk!195.149.39.56.MISMATCH!news-peer-lilac.gradwell.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147649 According to Larry__Weiss : > I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents > that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just > the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here > remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? You make it sound like a thing of the past! I still use that method to do my family tree diagrams. I've frequently thought about using alternatives for better æsthetics or automatic generation, but so far none have offered the same amount of flexibility. Chris. -- "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84 Currently playing: random early '80s radio stuff http://www.chrishedley.com - assorted stuff, inc my genealogy. Gan canny! ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation From: Andrew McLaren References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> Organization: not much Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 X-stickybeak: Are you reading my headers? Date: 03 Aug 2003 11:43:37 GMT Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.28.71.136 X-Trace: 1059911017 26533 211.28.71.136 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.frii.net!newsfeed.frii.net!news-out.newsfeeds.com!propagator2-maxim!news-in-maxim.spamkiller.net!snewsf0.syd.ops.aspac.uu.net!news1.optus.net.au!optus!spool01.syd.optusnet.com.au!spool.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147663 This is by no means a phenomenon of the Past. Vast tracts of IBM documentation continue to use ASCII-art diagrams (or should I say EBCDIC art) to this day. One sample picked at random: http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr/BOOKS/DSNAG0F5/1.2.3.1? SHELF=&DT=19990716185412 Okay that's not a very elaborate diagram, but there are many many more in the 1,000s of pages of mainframe doco online. Cheers Andrew ###### From: Joe Morris Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:39:58 +0000 (UTC) Organization: The MITRE Organization Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: newslocal.mitre.org 1059917998 19894 128.29.24.210 (3 Aug 2003 13:39:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:39:58 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: nn/6.6.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!tethys.csu.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!newstransit.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147661 aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) writes: >In article <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net>, Larry__Weiss >wrote: >> I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old >> documents that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were >> produced using just the character set of available character-only >> printers. Does anyone else here remember this sort of documentation? >> Has anyone preserved some samples? >IBM 360 software documentation is full of those. So were the hardware documentation kits for IBM mainframes. All of us here who inhabited the computer rooms in the mainframe era are (all too) familiar with the herds of wheeled carts carrying the oversized binders containing the printouts (collectively called "logics") with the information used by the CE in installing and maintaining the system. Line-printer graphics were used to produce logic charts (data and/or control flow), but they also were used for other purposes such as giving the physical layout of the SLT and SMS cards to locate the various jumpers that had to be set. Well into the S/360 era graphic hardcopy output was either unavailable or expensive, so line-printer flowcharts were commonly used to document program flow. For a more current usage: The RFC documents are published in flat ASCII, including the graphics showing the layout of data areas. See, for example: http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc1972.txt Joe Morris ###### From: Larry__Weiss Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 08:58:28 -0500 Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 23 Message-ID: <3F2D1504.82F97110@airmail.net> References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> <6dpigb.3rm2.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library2.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 09:02:38 -0500 (CDT) NNTP-Posting-Host: !c2Qr1k-W_rPGfk1bq,m (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147635 Chris Hedley wrote: > According to Larry__Weiss : > > I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents > > that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just > > the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here > > remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? > > You make it sound like a thing of the past! I still use that method > to do my family tree diagrams. I've frequently thought about using > alternatives for better æsthetics or automatic generation, but so far > none have offered the same amount of flexibility. > I wouldn't be surprised if this technique was becoming extremely rare for large documents. It's very labor intensive when done manually (takes lots of attention and time to get everything lined up exactly, especially when extensive edits are required involving insertions), and I'm not aware of any automated way to generate them that is available on the current desktop machines in use today. The flexibility aspect is a strength and also the portability. If there were, say, VISIO diagram --> text-only diagram convertors that did a good job, then we could have the best of both. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> <6dpigb.3rm2.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <3F2D1504.82F97110@airmail.net> Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 15:39:03 +0100 Message-ID: <7q6jgb.0pn2.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Date: 03 Aug 2003 14:41:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.3.247.95 X-Trace: 1059921662 news.gradwell.net 56599 cbh/80.3.247.95 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@gradwell.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!195.149.39.56.MISMATCH!news-peer-lilac.gradwell.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147647 According to Larry__Weiss : > I wouldn't be surprised if this technique was becoming extremely rare > for large documents. It's very labor intensive when done manually (takes > lots of attention and time to get everything lined up exactly, especially > when extensive edits are required involving insertions), and I'm not aware > of any automated way to generate them that is available on the current > desktop machines in use today. It is quite labour intensive; in fact it's nothing short of a complete bastard to get things lined up when there's embedded HTML tags all over the bloody place!! But that's all part of the fun. > The flexibility aspect is a strength and also the portability. If there > were, say, VISIO diagram --> text-only diagram convertors that did a good > job, then we could have the best of both. True. You never know, it might happen (maybe it already has), I think that plain ASCII is one of those things that'll never quite go away. Chris. -- "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84 Currently playing: random early '80s radio stuff http://www.chrishedley.com - assorted stuff, inc my genealogy. Gan canny! ###### From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca () Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> Organization: Edmonton Community Network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.6] Lines: 23 Message-ID: <5g9Xa.4982$Fy1.229696@localhost> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 14:47:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.206.2 X-Trace: localhost 1059922049 198.161.206.2 (Sun, 03 Aug 2003 08:47:29 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 08:47:29 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.linkpendium.com!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!newsfeed.grouptelecom.net!localhost!jsavard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147642 Al Kossow (aek@spies.com) wrote: : In article <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net>, Larry__Weiss : wrote: : > I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old : documents : > that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced : using just : > the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone : else here : > remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? : IBM 360 software documentation is full of those. : www.spies.com/aek/pdf/ibm/360/Y28-6614-4_utilitiesPLM.pdf : for example. The book "Microprogramming: Principles and Practices" by Samir S. Husson (Prentice-Hall, 1970) has some examples in it as well; that book might be found in some college libraries. John Savard ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Date: 03 Aug 2003 18:02:13 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 80 Message-ID: <6uk79u7mre.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> <6dpigb.3rm2.ln@teabag.cbhnet> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1059926533 768 10.0.3.2 (3 Aug 2003 16:02:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Aug 2003 16:02:13 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147671 cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) writes: > According to Larry__Weiss : > > remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? > > You make it sound like a thing of the past! I still use that method > to do my family tree diagrams. Yup. Still in use. Such as in this technical lecture on programmable logic, that I made a few monts ago: http://neil.franklin.ch/Articles/20030530_LUGcamp_Open_Hardware.html Note: Text is in german, so you most likely will not understand it, so just go looking at the graphics. One example graph from there, the internal structure of an PROM chip: ------ (P)ROM Ausschnitt, 3 Adressleitungen, 2^3=8 Adressen, 4bit breit I = Inverter, ergeben ~A0, ~A1, ~A2, ... o = verbunden, - = keine Verbindung U = UND um Adresse zu dekodieren, pro Adresse eine Zeile ... A2 A1 A0 |__ |__ |__ | | | | | | | I | I | I Produktterm: | | | | | | | | | | ..-----o-----o-----o--U - 0 ---..--x--x--x--x- alle ~An UND = 0 | | | | | | | | | | ..-----o-----o--o-----U - 1 ---..--x--x--x--x- nur A0 rest ~ UND = 1 | | | | | | | | | | ..-----o--o--------o--U - 2 ---..--x--x--x--x- nur A1 rest ~ UND = 2 | | | | | | | | | | ..-----o--o-----o-----U - 3 ---..--x--x--x--x- A1 UND A0 rest ~ = 3 | | | | | | | | | | ..--o--------o-----o--U - 4 ---..--x--x--x--x- nur A2 rest ~ UND = 4 | | | | | | | | | | ..--o--------o--o-----U - 5 ---..--x--x--x--x- | | | | | | | | | | ..--o-----o--------o--U - 6 ---..--x--x--x--x- | | | | | | | | | | ..--o-----o-----o-----U - 7 ---..--x--x--x--x- x = Datenbits | | | | | | | | | | = o oder - : : : : : : : : : : | | | | O O O O ODER der Bits | | | | .. D3 D2 D1 D0 Daten Ausgang ------ This also shows embedding ASCII graphs into HTML webpages. Which ensures that the method will stay alive. You may also want to look at the alt.ascii-art group, to see many youngsters taking this up, although mostly for visual art, not for diagrams. > I've frequently thought about using > alternatives for better æsthetics or automatic generation, but so far > none have offered the same amount of flexibility. Yes. I find I can ASCII sketch in my tried and trusted editor a lot faster than starting up some paint program and pushing around pixels. I suppose some vector graphics program would be better, but I have none, and dislike the closed cinary file such programs make. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Programmer, Archer, Blacksmith - hardware runs the world, software controls the hardware code generates the software, have you coded today? ###### From: "Geoffrey G. Rochat" <777geoff777@777pkworks777.777com777> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:45:44 -0400 Organization: Sprint Advanced Network Services Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> Reply-To: "Geoffrey G. Rochat" <777geoff777@777pkworks777.777com777> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.244.111.139 X-Trace: news.utelfla.com 1059928642 14137 208.244.111.139 (3 Aug 2003 16:37:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.utelfla.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 16:37:22 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!news.sprintnetops.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147682 > I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents > that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just > the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here > remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? I've got the Rhode Island Computer Museum's collection of IBM Series/1 documentation in my dining room where I'm sorting through it, and it's full of that stuff. Even schematics - printed by a chain printer so nothing quite lines up. It's not on line yet, but I will eventually be making copies of all of it to send off to Al Kossow (Why, thank you Al! ) so that he can put it up on his site. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (windows-nt) Cancel-Lock: sha1:0ZPFH6gq9ETgvs5xyRnvzZdTjgE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 49 Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 17:08:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.245.11.37 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net 1059930487 209.245.11.37 (Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:08:07 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:08:07 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed2.easynews.com!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147683 "Geoffrey G. Rochat" <777geoff777@777pkworks777.777com777> writes: > I've got the Rhode Island Computer Museum's collection of IBM > Series/1 documentation in my dining room where I'm sorting through > it, and it's full of that stuff. Even schematics - printed by a > chain printer so nothing quite lines up. It's not on line yet, but > I will eventually be making copies of all of it to send off to Al > Kossow (Why, thank you Al! ) so that he can put it up on his > site. the early 360 principle of operations manual was printed using standard processes and the instruction syntax diagrams had solid lines in the boxes. architecture moved the "red book" into script (on cp/67/cms ... initially supported run-off-like "dot" commands but circa 1970 or so, gml was added to script ... aka precursor to sgml, html, xml, etc). The "red book" came from it being distributed in red 3-ring binders ... and standard cms script was used to print it on 1403 printers where the use of standard ("TN") characters no longer resulted in solid lines for boxes, etc. The red book had all the really interesting engineering, background, compatibility and justification details .... interspersed with the principle of operations "text". specification on the script command would either print the full red book .... or just the pinciple of operations subset ... for publication. as more and more documentation was converted to the cms script-based infrastructure, there were more manuals and publications that lost the solid connected lines in boxes and other diagrams. this continued pretty much up until the introduction of the 3800 printer where script got the ability to specify characters that would produce solid connected lines for boxes. in some respects, script/gml font specification feature originated for support of 2741/selectric typeballs (i.e. possible to switch typeballs on 2741 terminal to get different character sets .... like apl (I actually still have 2741 apl typeball in top drawer of my desk). cp/67, cms, script, gml, internal network, virtual machines, lots of text editoring, compare&swap instruction, port of apl\360 to cms and support for virtual memory, etc ... all originally the product of the cambridge scient center, 4th floor, 545 tech sq. misc. refs: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtoptic.html#545tech -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm ###### From: "Russ Holsclaw" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Lines: 45 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 11:35:59 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.4.91.137 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1059931942 67.4.91.137 (Sun, 03 Aug 2003 12:32:22 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 12:32:22 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147684 > >IBM 360 software documentation is full of those. > > So were the hardware documentation kits for IBM mainframes. All of us > here who inhabited the computer rooms in the mainframe era are (all too) > familiar with the herds of wheeled carts carrying the oversized binders > containing the printouts (collectively called "logics") with the > information used by the CE in installing and maintaining the system. > Line-printer graphics were used to produce logic charts (data and/or > control flow), but they also were used for other purposes such as > giving the physical layout of the SLT and SMS cards to locate the > various jumpers that had to be set. Right, these logic diagrams were called "ALDs" for Automated Logic Diagram. The diagrams were produced by software that inputted a full set of "logic rules" that dictated the design. Of most importance was the fact that the ALDs used by CE's in the field were slightly simplified, in that they mostly showed logic blocks that resided on the same card as a unit, rather than dragging the CE through the circuitry of each individual card. In other words, they were intended to help the CE isolate cards, not individual logic circuits. So, the cards that did high-level functions were reduced down to a small number of rectangles, and internal card connections were rarely shown. Still, a CPU often had dozens of logic binders even at that level of abstraction. When we installed Engineering Changes on the machines, the change materials included updated ALD pages, so the logics were kept in sync with the hardware. > Well into the S/360 era graphic hardcopy output was either unavailable > or expensive, so line-printer flowcharts were commonly used to document > program flow. ###### Message-ID: <3F2D781A.AAC155C5@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: sccrnsc03 1059937483 12.241.15.59 (Sun, 03 Aug 2003 19:04:43 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 19:04:43 GMT Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 19:04:43 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!sccrnsc03.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147695 Larry__Weiss wrote: > > I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents > that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just > the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here > remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? > ISTR that over in , they sometimes post schematics made up entirely of ASCII characters. They use things like: ----/\/\/\/\---- for a resistor and ----()()()()----- for a coil, or some such. I need to Google for a page that descibes this...I am sure it is still going on. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3F2D7A0D.E8DF7C2E@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> <3f2cb845$0$56604$bed64819@pubnews.gradwell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net 1059937983 12.241.15.59 (Sun, 03 Aug 2003 19:13:03 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 19:13:03 GMT Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 19:13:03 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147700 Geoff Lane wrote: > > Larry__Weiss wrote: > > I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents > > that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just > > the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here > > remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? > > Compiler Construction > David Gries > Wiley, 1971 > ISBN 0-471-32771-9 > > Was printed from camera read copy printed on a chain printer attached to an > IBM 360/65. Almost all of the text, tables and diagrams use only the text > and graphics characters available on the printer chain. > Yes, I have a copy of the book. The type is perhaps clever, but it is hard to read...why did *no* one ever re-do the book using more modern tools??? -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3F2D7C2A.CC387EFB@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> <3F2D781A.AAC155C5@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net 1059938524 12.241.15.59 (Sun, 03 Aug 2003 19:22:04 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 19:22:04 GMT Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 19:22:04 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.news2me.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!wn14feed!wn13feed!wn11feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147699 Charles Richmond wrote: > > Larry__Weiss wrote: > > > > I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents > > that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just > > the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here > > remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? > > > ISTR that over in , they sometimes post > schematics made up entirely of ASCII characters. They use things > like: > > ----/\/\/\/\---- > > for a resistor and > > ----()()()()----- > > for a coil, or some such. I need to Google for a page that > descibes this...I am sure it is still going on. > Correction: That may be ... *Not* every newsgroup starts with "comp"... Anyway, these ASCII schematics are *very* useful so that schematics can be posted in a "text only" newsgroup. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Larry__Weiss Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 14:26:18 -0500 Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 10 Message-ID: <3F2D61DA.790D95A5@airmail.net> References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library2.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 14:31:34 -0500 (CDT) NNTP-Posting-Host: !a@]21k-W.b)qEB,?J7Q (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147677 Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: > cp/67, cms, script, gml, internal network, virtual machines, lots of > text editoring, compare&swap instruction, port of apl\360 to cms and > support for virtual memory, etc ... all originally the product of the > cambridge scient center, 4th floor, 545 tech sq. misc. refs: > http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtoptic.html#545tech \ \____ t? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech ##### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: <5hpqivsaqv0ua7fc395lktb6rnn541999p@4ax.com> References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 19:49:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news1.calgary.shaw.ca 1059940192 24.71.223.147 (Sun, 03 Aug 2003 13:49:52 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 13:49:52 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news1.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147692 On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 22:24:54 -0500 in alt.folklore.computers, Larry__Weiss wrote: >I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents >that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just >the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here >remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? Still produce them when I need simple diagrams, as they're faster to draw and more portable than the output of any graphic drawing product, until PNG gets more widespread support. These were at the low end of the totem pole, line printer pictures were at the high end: google rec.arts.ascii for current variations and pointers. Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Date: Mon, 04 Aug 03 11:13:51 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> <87vftfjp5g.fsf@cain.internet2.edu> <3F2DB5FA.E168C4A5@airmail.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbA9VyeMu2186IQKAEYqsZJO63eRx+d0IOKWBXTF7bu6XFeR4ubW01q X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 2003 12:16:26 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!208-59-181-216 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147782 In article <3F2DB5FA.E168C4A5@airmail.net>, Larry__Weiss wrote: >stanislav shalunov wrote: >> Are you talking about something like the diagrams in the RFC series? >> (A fairly complicated---and important--example is Figure 6 on page 23 >> of RFC 793, .) >> > >Yes, thanks! I've copied some examples from that RFC here >(including that Fig 6). Oh, is that what you're talking about. TOPS-10 stuff was full of it. The monitor tables were done that way; all of our specs were done that way. Anything that we documented but couldn't justify using the art group was done that way. What I can't remember is what form of output Dick Helliwell's stuff had. I think the thingie was called SUDS and it may have run on System #525, later converted to KL1025. Serial number may be off by one. It was hardware's computer system on MR1-2, down the hall from us and they used the system to develop hardware designs. At a guess, I suspect that SUDS would take EE flavored commands and convert them into printable ASCII. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Lon Stowell Reply-To: lon.stowell@comcast.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> In-Reply-To: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.240.77.188 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net 1059952933 12.240.77.188 (Sun, 03 Aug 2003 23:22:13 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 23:22:13 GMT Organization: Comcast Online Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 23:22:14 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!small1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!border3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147860 Larry__Weiss wrote: > I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents > that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just > the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here > remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? IBM used this for several machines from electronic to relay logic. We wuz told it was so the books could be printed on a normal line printer. Not that hard to get used to. Can't remember if an output had an "X" to indicate inversion or if it was just physically placed on the lower part of the logic box. There wuz several different strategies even for graphic descriptions of logic, circles, circles with small circles, etc. until mil std came out. ###### From: Larry__Weiss Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 20:25:14 -0500 Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 124 Message-ID: <3F2DB5FA.E168C4A5@airmail.net> References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> <87vftfjp5g.fsf@cain.internet2.edu> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library2.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 20:33:27 -0500 (CDT) NNTP-Posting-Host: !a_3=1k-X4cTHh/7NnE) (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147710 stanislav shalunov wrote: > Are you talking about something like the diagrams in the RFC series? > (A fairly complicated---and important--example is Figure 6 on page 23 > of RFC 793, .) > Yes, thanks! I've copied some examples from that RFC here (including that Fig 6). RFC: 793 TRANSMISSION CONTROL PROTOCOL DARPA INTERNET PROGRAM PROTOCOL SPECIFICATION September 1981 ================================================================== +------+ +-----+ +-----+ +-----+ |Telnet| | FTP | |Voice| ... | | Application Level +------+ +-----+ +-----+ +-----+ | | | | +-----+ +-----+ +-----+ | TCP | | RTP | ... | | Host Level +-----+ +-----+ +-----+ | | | +-------------------------------+ | Internet Protocol & ICMP | Gateway Level +-------------------------------+ | +---------------------------+ | Local Network Protocol | Network Level +---------------------------+ Protocol Relationships Figure 2. ================================================================== TCP Header Format 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Source Port | Destination Port | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Sequence Number | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Acknowledgment Number | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Data | |U|A|P|R|S|F| | | Offset| Reserved |R|C|S|S|Y|I| Window | | | |G|K|H|T|N|N| | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Checksum | Urgent Pointer | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Options | Padding | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | data | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ TCP Header Format Note that one tick mark represents one bit position. Figure 3. ================================================================== +---------+ ---------\ active OPEN | CLOSED | \ ----------- +---------+<---------\ \ create TCB | ^ \ \ snd SYN passive OPEN | | CLOSE \ \ ------------ | | ---------- \ \ create TCB | | delete TCB \ \ V | \ \ +---------+ CLOSE | \ | LISTEN | ---------- | | +---------+ delete TCB | | rcv SYN | | SEND | | ----------- | | ------- | V +---------+ snd SYN,ACK / \ snd SYN +---------+ | |<----------------- ------------------>| | | SYN | rcv SYN | SYN | | RCVD |<-----------------------------------------------| SENT | | | snd ACK | | | |------------------ -------------------| | +---------+ rcv ACK of SYN \ / rcv SYN,ACK +---------+ | -------------- | | ----------- | x | | snd ACK | V V | CLOSE +---------+ | ------- | ESTAB | | snd FIN +---------+ | CLOSE | | rcv FIN V ------- | | ------- +---------+ snd FIN / \ snd ACK +---------+ | FIN |<----------------- ------------------>| CLOSE | | WAIT-1 |------------------ | WAIT | +---------+ rcv FIN \ +---------+ | rcv ACK of FIN ------- | CLOSE | | -------------- snd ACK | ------- | V x V snd FIN V +---------+ +---------+ +---------+ |FINWAIT-2| | CLOSING | | LAST-ACK| +---------+ +---------+ +---------+ | rcv ACK of FIN | rcv ACK of FIN | | rcv FIN -------------- | Timeout=2MSL -------------- | | ------- x V ------------ x V \ snd ACK +---------+delete TCB +---------+ ------------------------>|TIME WAIT|------------------>| CLOSED | +---------+ +---------+ TCP Connection State Diagram Figure 6. ================================================================== ###### From: ab528@freenet.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 04:14:23 -0400 Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Lines: 10 Sender: ab528@freenet.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Message-ID: References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> <3f2cb845$0$56604$bed64819@pubnews.gradwell.net> <3F2D7A0D.E8DF7C2E@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p13.tc3.std.dialup.ncf.ca X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1059984962 21463 134.117.137.182 (4 Aug 2003 08:16:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 2003 08:16:02 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Given-From: "Heinz Wiggeshoff" Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147802 "Charles Richmond" wrote in message news:3F2D7A0D.E8DF7C2E@ev1.net... > Yes, I have a copy of the book. The type is perhaps clever, but > it is hard to read...why did *no* one ever re-do the book using > more modern tools??? Amen. (I would have posted this, but you beat me to the punch. B-) ###### From: Tony Lima Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: text character based diagrams in technical documentation Organization: Tony Lima Associates Reply-To: TonyLima2@att.net Message-ID: References: <3F2C8086.E4A1A799@airmail.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.553 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 21:43:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.81.71.29 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1060119790 12.81.71.29 (Tue, 05 Aug 2003 21:43:10 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 21:43:10 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.news2me.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!wn14feed!wn13feed!wn11feed!worldnet.att.net!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:147824 On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 22:24:54 -0500, Larry__Weiss wrote: >I have a memory of seeing very sophisticated technical diagrams in old documents >that employed simple text characters. Even flowcharts were produced using just >the character set of available character-only printers. Does anyone else here >remember this sort of documentation? Has anyone preserved some samples? If memory serves, there was a product called Clear that produced flow charts for xBase programs. I believe the first version or two did them in text (although they may have used the PBM PC extended ASCII character set). - Tony (who is quite sure that if his memory is faulty a few folks here will let him know) -- Tony Lima /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign \ / against HTML mail X and postings / \