Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) Subject: An a.f.c bibliography? X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) Originator: bdc@jarai.com Message-ID: Lines: 45 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.126.253.169 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net 1056177006 24.126.253.169 (Sat, 21 Jun 2003 06:30:06 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 06:30:06 GMT Organization: AT&T Broadband Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 06:30:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142033 I often find references to books and papers on a.f.c which would, in quite a few instances, escape my notice were they not mentioned here. Many of the works mentioned are widely known and accepted as classics (i.e. The Mythical Man-Month, The Art of Computer Programming), but others might not be so obvious or universally known. As an example, someone mentioned _Hacker's Delight_ in a recent post; from what I can find about it online, it definitely looks like something I'd be interested in reading. What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or maybe that represent the best of) the knowledge, craft, culture, and history of all the various areas of computing? Ones which I particularly value include: The Art of Computer Programming, Volumes 1-3 Donald E. Knuth Addison-Wesley The C Programming Language, 2nd Ed. Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie Prentice Hall, 1988 ISBN 0-13-110362-8 Computer Engineering: A DEC View of Hardware Systems Design C. Gordon Bell, J. Craig Mudge, and John E. McNamara Digital Press, 1978 ISBN 0-932376-00-2 The Elements of Programming Style, 2nd Ed. Brian W. Kernighan and P.J. Plauger McGraw-Hill, 1978 ISBN 0-07-034207-5 The Mythical Man-Month: Essays on Software Engineering Frederick P. Brooks, Jr. Addison-Wesley, 1995 ISBN 0-201-83595-9 Programming Pearls Jon Bentley Addison-Wesley, 1986 ISBN 0-201-10331-1 -brian. ###### From: Larry__Weiss Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:04:03 -0500 Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 53 Message-ID: <3EF41F83.D4B74259@airmail.net> References: Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:06:19 -0500 (CDT) NNTP-Posting-Host: !\62T1k-W)\t&IC7NlOI (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142011 Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote: > What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or > maybe that represent the best of) the knowledge, craft, culture, > and history of all the various areas of computing? > > The Art of Computer Programming, Volumes 1-3 > Donald E. Knuth > Addison-Wesley > > The C Programming Language, 2nd Ed. > Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie > Prentice Hall, 1988 > ISBN 0-13-110362-8 > > Computer Engineering: A DEC View of Hardware Systems Design > C. Gordon Bell, J. Craig Mudge, and John E. McNamara > Digital Press, 1978 > ISBN 0-932376-00-2 > > The Elements of Programming Style, 2nd Ed. > Brian W. Kernighan and P.J. Plauger > McGraw-Hill, 1978 > ISBN 0-07-034207-5 > > The Mythical Man-Month: Essays on Software Engineering > Frederick P. Brooks, Jr. > Addison-Wesley, 1995 > ISBN 0-201-83595-9 > > Programming Pearls > Jon Bentley > Addison-Wesley, 1986 > ISBN 0-201-10331-1 > All good choices, to which I add: The Soul of a New Machine Tracy Kidder ISBN 0-316-49197-7 Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution Steven Levy ISBN 0-141-00051-1 Fire in the Valley: The Making of The Personal Computer Paul Freiberger, Michael Swaine ISBN 0=071=35892-7 Home Computer Revolution Ted Nelson ASBN 0-893-47025-2 ###### From: mwilson@the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Message-ID: References: Lines: 19 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.37Beta [95/NT] Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:11:40 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.206.39.89 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 1056210577 205.206.39.89 (Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:49:37 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:49:37 EDT Organization: WorldCom Canada Ltd. News Reader Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142067 In article , bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote: >What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or >maybe that represent the best of) the knowledge, craft, culture, >and history of all the various areas of computing? Ones which I >particularly value include: > > The Art of Computer Programming, Volumes 1-3 > [ ... ] > The C Programming Language, 2nd Ed. > [ ... ] The Psychology of Computer Programming Gerald M. Weiinberg Van Nostrand Reinhold ISBM 0-442-29264-3 Regards. Mel. ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:39:52 -0400 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-835.newsdawg.com Mail-Copies-To: nobody User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.news2me.com!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142157 In article , mwilson@the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) wrote: > The Psychology of Computer Programming > Gerald M. Weiinberg > Van Nostrand Reinhold > ISBM 0-442-29264-3 Good stuff! -- Today, on Paper-view: Pulp Fiction! ###### From: Larry__Weiss Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:10:30 -0500 Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 17 Message-ID: <3EF4C9C6.605AC529@airmail.net> References: Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:10:37 -0500 (CDT) NNTP-Posting-Host: !dm$S1k-W.m?+)+,?MV[ (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142203 Mel Wilson wrote: > In article , > bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote: > >... what are the books that best represent ... the knowledge, > >craft, culture, and history of all the various areas of computing? > > > > The Art of Computer Programming, Volumes 1-3 > > [ ... ] > > The C Programming Language, 2nd Ed. > > [ ... ] > > [ ... ] > The Psychology of Computer Programming > > [ ... ] > In the Beginning was the Command Line Neal Stephenson ISBN 0-380-81593-1 ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: <3EF41F83.D4B74259@airmail.net> Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:43:05 +0100 Message-ID: <9hj2db.5k3.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jun 2003 21:44:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.3.247.95 X-Trace: 1056231897 news.gradwell.net 315 cbh/80.3.247.95 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@gradwell.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!news.cabal.org.uk!news-peer.gradwell.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142207 According to Larry__Weiss : > Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote: > > What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or > ... snip ... > All good choices, to which I add: ... snip ... Probably also Douglas Adams' assorted works and the (in)famous paper, "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal" for a background on humour & lifestyle choices... Chris. -- "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84 Currently playing: random early '80s radio stuff http://www.chrishedley.com - assorted stuff, inc my genealogy. Gan canny! ###### From: Larry__Weiss Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:55:50 -0500 Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 9 Message-ID: <3EF4D466.1EEF7C34@airmail.net> References: <3EF41F83.D4B74259@airmail.net> <9hj2db.5k3.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library2.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:55:46 -0500 (CDT) NNTP-Posting-Host: ![mXd1k-YA[U/ei/i'[3 (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news.belwue.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142204 Chris Hedley wrote: > "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal" for a background on > humour & lifestyle choices... > Ed Post, "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal", DATAMATION, July 1983, pp. 263-265 (Readers' Forum). http://graphics.cs.ucdavis.edu/~brettw/insight/realprogrammers.html ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: <3EF41F83.D4B74259@airmail.net> <9hj2db.5k3.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <3EF4D466.1EEF7C34@airmail.net> Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 23:10:25 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jun 2003 22:11:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.3.247.95 X-Trace: 1056233460 news.gradwell.net 322 cbh/80.3.247.95 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@gradwell.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!itgate.net!newsfeeder.edisontel.com!nntp.infostrada.it!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!zen.net.uk!news.cabal.org.uk!news-peer.gradwell.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142208 According to Larry__Weiss : > Ed Post, "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal", > DATAMATION, July 1983, pp. 263-265 (Readers' Forum). > > http://graphics.cs.ucdavis.edu/~brettw/insight/realprogrammers.html Blimey, that was quick! Chris. -- "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84 Currently playing: random early '80s radio stuff http://www.chrishedley.com - assorted stuff, inc my genealogy. Gan canny! ###### From: Rich Alderson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: 21 Jun 2003 20:16:13 -0400 Organization: Systems Administration, XKL LLC, Redmond WA 98052 Lines: 26 Sender: alderson+news@panix5.panix.com Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: panix5.panix.com X-Trace: reader1.panix.com 1056240973 15606 166.84.1.5 (22 Jun 2003 00:16:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 00:16:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!panix!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142256 abuse@mooli.org.uk (Peter Corlett) writes: > I'd also suggest The New Hackers Dictionary and the contents of its > bibliography. > The New Hacker's Dictionary > Eric S. Raymond (Editor) > The MIT Press, 1996 > ISBN 0262680920 > (Also available for free electronically at www.jargonfile.com.) Interestingly, I had dinner just last night with a long-time friend, the editor of record of the original _Hacker's Dictionary_, you know, the one edited from the original Jargon File (maintained on SAIL, the WAITS PDP-10 at Stanford, and on MIT-AI, one of the ITS PDP-10s at MIT), which didn't leave out the important bits contributed by the PDP-10 community, nor include "jargon" made up by the "editor's" girlfriend 'coz she thought it sounded cute. Stick with the Jargon File, preferably a version not infected with ESRisms. US$0.02, a lot less than the original sixth of a shilling... -- Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." --Death, of the Endless ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: Sender: bdc@world.std.com Organization: HappyNet Bungalow X-No-Ahbou: yes X-No-Archive: Yes X-Face: "CVLf:[ Lines: 50 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.126.253.169 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc53 1056249006 24.126.253.169 (Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:30:06 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:30:06 GMT Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:30:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp.abs.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc53.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142233 In article , Rich Alderson wrote: > abuse@mooli.org.uk (Peter Corlett) writes: > > I'd also suggest The New Hackers Dictionary and the contents of its > > bibliography. > > > The New Hacker's Dictionary > > Eric S. Raymond (Editor) > > The MIT Press, 1996 > > ISBN 0262680920 > > > (Also available for free electronically at www.jargonfile.com.) > > Interestingly, I had dinner just last night with a long-time > friend, the editor of record of the original _Hacker's Dictionary_, > you know, the one edited from the original Jargon File (maintained > on SAIL, the WAITS PDP-10 at Stanford, and on MIT-AI, one of the > ITS PDP-10s at MIT), which didn't leave out the important bits > contributed by the PDP-10 community, nor include "jargon" made up > by the "editor's" girlfriend 'coz she thought it sounded cute. > > Stick with the Jargon File, preferably a version not infected with > ESRisms. I only recently discovered that ESR was deleting lots of entries from it. I wanted to point someone to the `fuzzball' entry and it was GONE! Well, at least it's gone in recent versions of ESR's file. He does maintain a complete list of changes and deletions I don't think many (if any) of the reasons for deletion of those terms are very good. Instead of removing them, I'd rather they remained with some brief context of their history and maybe an approximate date range for when they were in use. Maybe dropping terms is appropriate if the intention is to use the file as a basis for "The New Hacker's Dictionary" if the modifier "new" is intended to reflect it being a collection of contemporary terminology. The introduction does claim that the text is in the public domain, so there wouldn't be anything preventing it from forking into something like "The Complete Hacker's Dictionary". -brian. ###### Message-ID: <3EF5331C.A7223D60@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc04 1056249776 12.241.15.59 (Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:42:56 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:42:56 GMT Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 02:42:56 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!chi1.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!wn14feed!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!sccrnsc04.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142280 Rich Alderson wrote: > > abuse@mooli.org.uk (Peter Corlett) writes: > > > I'd also suggest The New Hackers Dictionary and the contents of its > > bibliography. > > > The New Hacker's Dictionary > > Eric S. Raymond (Editor) > > The MIT Press, 1996 > > ISBN 0262680920 > > > (Also available for free electronically at www.jargonfile.com.) > > Interestingly, I had dinner just last night with a long-time friend, the editor > of record of the original _Hacker's Dictionary_, you know, the one edited from > the original Jargon File (maintained on SAIL, the WAITS PDP-10 at Stanford, and > on MIT-AI, one of the ITS PDP-10s at MIT), which didn't leave out the important > bits contributed by the PDP-10 community, nor include "jargon" made up by the > "editor's" girlfriend 'coz she thought it sounded cute. > How is Guy L. Steele doing these days??? Does he still collaborate on the _C: A Reference Manual_ book with Mr. Harbison??? -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) References: Sender: bdc@world.std.com Organization: HappyNet Bungalow X-No-Ahbou: yes X-No-Archive: Yes X-Face: "CVLf:[ Lines: 64 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.126.253.169 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc54 1056256207 24.126.253.169 (Sun, 22 Jun 2003 04:30:07 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 04:30:07 GMT Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 04:30:07 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc54.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142240 I'm following up to myself, but I thought of a few others. Hardware books: The Art of Electronics, 2nd Ed. Paul Horowitz and Winfield Hill Cambridge University Press, 1989 ISBN 0-521-37095-7 Unix OS: UNIX Internals: The New Frontiers Uresh Vahalia Prentice Hall, 1996 ISBN 0-13-101908-2 The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System Marshall Kirk McKusick, Keith Bostic, Michael J. Karels, \ and John S. Quarterman Addison Wesley, 1996 ISBN 0-201-54979-4 Languages: Why Pascal is Not My Favorite Programming Language Brian W. Kernighan Common Lisp: The Language, 2nd Ed. Guy L. Steele Jr. Digital Press, 1990 ISBN 1-55558-041-6 Are there any decent books or papers on the practice of designing robust software? All the recent talk of C programming vs. languages with inherent garbage collection, bounds checking, and exceptions has been interesting. Most college courses and books tend to focus on fundamental concepts and algorithms, instead of the more tedious process of building "bullet-proof" systems. Or if there aren't books or papers on written on these sort of things, I'd be interested in knowing if there are available examples of source code that're widely considered "excellent" by those in the computer industry. I don't remember who it was, but a few weeks ago someone made the comment about writers having the tendency to study classic works of literature in order to become more familiar with their craft. I think this is a significant observation w.r.t. the current practices for training software developers. Very few if any /examples/ of good software systems are provided, with the intention of analyzing them, as part of any computer science curriculum. There must be some very highly regarded examples of open source software out there, beautifully coded gems, written in any variety of languages, buried in the vast dung heaps of ego-ware. They do exist, right? So as a follow-on request to the bibliography thread, what are some example systems and worth "reading"? I'll start with the source for the one true awk on Kernighan's AWK Programming Language page (because I just happened to be poking around his website this evening). -brian. ###### From: Patrick Scheible Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: 21 Jun 2003 23:30:28 -0700 Organization: Ye 'Ol Disorganized NNTPCache groupie Message-ID: References: <3EF5331C.A7223D60@ev1.net> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Cache-Post-Path: yasure!unknown@cascadia.drizzle.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-04!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142243 Charles Richmond writes: > How is Guy L. Steele doing these days??? Does he still collaborate > on the _C: A Reference Manual_ book with Mr. Harbison??? I noticed a newer edition dated (iirc) 2001 in the bookstore the other day. -- Patrick ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:51:11 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: User-Agent: tin/1.5.17-20030407 ("Peephole") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.8-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142263 Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote: > > I only recently discovered that ESR was deleting lots of entries > from it. I wanted to point someone to the `fuzzball' entry and it > was GONE! Well, at least it's gone in recent versions of ESR's file. As soon as ESR started rejecting arguments about kluge/kludge and plainly denying any other usage than his own, I knew the game was up. Sadly that was over ten years ago. He seems to be happier making money out of other people's code these days, and using the open-source movement as a vehicle for his own eccentric politics. It'd be nice if someone who had less axes to grind than Raymond took over the Jargon File. pete -- pete@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" HMHB ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:58:54 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: User-Agent: tin/1.5.17-20030407 ("Peephole") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.8-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!cyclone.bc.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-pas-nf2!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142262 Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote: > Are there any decent books or papers on the practice of designing > robust software? All the recent talk of C programming vs. languages > with inherent garbage collection, bounds checking, and exceptions has > been interesting. Most college courses and books tend to focus on > fundamental concepts and algorithms, instead of the more tedious > process of building "bullet-proof" systems. Kernighan and Pike, 'The Practice of Programming'. While we're on this, my architecture bibles: Siewiorek, Bell and Newell, 'Computer Structures: Principles and Examples' Hwang and Briggs, 'Computer Architecture and Parallel Processing' Hennessy and Patterson, 'Computer Architecture: A Quantitative Approach' Blaauw and Brooks, 'Computer Architecture: Concepts and Evolution' Stallings, 'Reduced Instruction Set Computers' pete -- pete@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" HMHB ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 12:36:25 +0100 Organization: Titanic Enterprises Unlimited Lines: 46 Message-ID: <1056281785.458840@saucer.planet.gong> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: darkboong.demon.co.uk X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1056281785 3492 80.177.7.220 (22 Jun 2003 11:36:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 11:36:25 +0000 (UTC) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Priority: 3 X-Cache: nntpcache 3.0.1 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Cache-Post-Path: saucer.planet.gong!unknown@voodoo.planet.gong Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142247 "Brian 'Jarai' Chase" wrote in message news:eokfs-jb7.ln1@pez.jarai.com... > I'm following up to myself, but I thought of a few others. > > Hardware books: > > The Art of Electronics, 2nd Ed. > Paul Horowitz and Winfield Hill > Cambridge University Press, 1989 > ISBN 0-521-37095-7 That is a an extremely useful book. One of those books that makes you feel better by being on the bookshelf. :) Then there's one of my favourite books for just dipping into and having a bit of a rummage when I'm trying to work out why the hell they did UNIX "this" way. The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD Operating System Marshall Kirk McKusick, Keith Bostic, Michael J. Karels, John S. Quarterman ISBN 0-201-54979-4 Hmm, not quite afc bib. material, but definately about as far away from Quiche as you can get (they replaced the PASCAL examples with C in the 2nd Ed) : Computer Graphics, Principles and Practice, 2nd Ed. Foley, van Dam, Feiner, Hughes Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, 1996 ISBN 0-201-84840-6 In fairness a lot of the stuff presented in that book comes from the 60s and 70s, and there's plenty of mention of long-dead machinary in there. Looking at the plates generated by a VAX-11/780 and how long each one took gave me goosebumps. :) I also love reading Jim Blinn's IEEE CG&A articles on the rare occasion I get to peruse that magazine. Cheers, Rupert ###### Message-ID: <3EF65684.367C0600@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net 1056324378 12.241.15.59 (Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:26:18 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:26:18 GMT Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:26:18 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142353 Pete Fenelon wrote: > > Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote: > > > > I only recently discovered that ESR was deleting lots of entries > > from it. I wanted to point someone to the `fuzzball' entry and it > > was GONE! Well, at least it's gone in recent versions of ESR's file. > > As soon as ESR started rejecting arguments about kluge/kludge and > plainly denying any other usage than his own, I knew the game was up. > Sadly that was over ten years ago. > > He seems to be happier making money out of other people's code these > days, and using the open-source movement as a vehicle for his own > eccentric politics. > > It'd be nice if someone who had less axes to grind than Raymond took > over the Jargon File. > IIRC, Mark Crispin was trying to point this out to ESR a dozen years ago...but to *no* avail... -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3EF6572B.FE45669@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: <1056281785.458840@saucer.planet.gong> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc54 1056324545 12.241.15.59 (Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:29:05 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:29:05 GMT Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:29:05 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!wn13feed!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc54.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142352 Rupert Pigott wrote: > > "Brian 'Jarai' Chase" wrote in message > news:eokfs-jb7.ln1@pez.jarai.com... > > I'm following up to myself, but I thought of a few others. > > > > Hardware books: > > > > The Art of Electronics, 2nd Ed. > > Paul Horowitz and Winfield Hill > > Cambridge University Press, 1989 > > ISBN 0-521-37095-7 > > That is a an extremely useful book. One of those books > that makes you feel better by being on the bookshelf. :) > > Then there's one of my favourite books for just dipping > into and having a bit of a rummage when I'm trying to > work out why the hell they did UNIX "this" way. > > The Design and Implementation of the 4.4BSD > Operating System > Marshall Kirk McKusick, Keith Bostic, > Michael J. Karels, John S. Quarterman > ISBN 0-201-54979-4 > I have *not* had the pleasure of purusing this volume, but I *do* like _The Magic Garden Explained_. If you have read both, perhaps you can "compare and contrast" them for those of us with more limited book budgets... -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Charles Shannon Hendrix Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: Reply-To: cshSPAM@SPAM.widomaker.com User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (Linux) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 00:52:13 -0400 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.96.185.194 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 1056345028 209.96.185.194 (23 Jun 2003 00:10:28 -0500) Lines: 25 X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 100,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.linkpendium.com!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!news-out.newsfeeds.com!local!corp.newsgroups.com!escape.shannon.net!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142328 In article , Pete Fenelon wrote: > As soon as ESR started rejecting arguments about kluge/kludge and > plainly denying any other usage than his own, I knew the game was up. I can't figure out what his agenda is with the jargon file, and he's added some stupid things in there. > It'd be nice if someone who had less axes to grind than Raymond took > over the Jargon File. Nothing really stops you... us... someone. I've thought about it too, or at least just maintaining my own version. -- Ah... you gotta love it when your ISP switches to a SPAMMING newsfeed. Sigh... -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ###### From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: 23 Jun 2003 07:42:43 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 170.121.15.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1056379363 14424 127.0.0.1 (23 Jun 2003 14:42:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jun 2003 14:42:43 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-09!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142351 bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote in message news:... > What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or > maybe that represent the best of) the knowledge, craft, culture, > and history of all the various areas of computing? Hofstadter's _Godel Escher Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid_ included a rather good popularization of some of the AI work that was done in the 60's and 70's. Some history of the computing culture at Stanford and MIT is intermingled, too. Again, far from a reference book on AI, but very high in accessibility. Sort of like nobody would use Kidder's _The Soul of a New Machine_ as a reference on how to run a technology company or how to design a minicomputer :-) Tim. ###### From: joe@jolomo.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:46:10 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Bozo Central in Atlanta Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <3EF41F83.D4B74259@airmail.net> <9hj2db.5k3.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <3EF4D466.1EEF7C34@airmail.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix1.panix.com X-Trace: reader1.panix.com 1056383170 25335 166.84.1.1 (23 Jun 2003 15:46:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:46:10 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: tin/1.4.7-20030322 ("Suggestions") (UNIX) (NetBSD/1.5.4_ALPHA (i386)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142316 Not so long ago, Chris Hedley wrote: > According to Larry__Weiss : >> Ed Post, "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal", >> DATAMATION, July 1983, pp. 263-265 (Readers' Forum). >> >> http://graphics.cs.ucdavis.edu/~brettw/insight/realprogrammers.html > Blimey, that was quick! Oh brother Unix is a lot more complicated of course -- the typical Unix hacker never can remember what the PRINT command is called this week -- but when it gets right down to it, Unix is a glorified video game. People don't do Serious Work on Unix systems: they send jokes around the world on UUCP-net and write adventure games and research papers. -- Joe Morris Live music in Atlanta http://jolomo.net/atlanta/shows.html ###### From: John Everett Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:19:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.86.106.31 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1056385161 209.86.106.31 (Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:19:21 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:19:21 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.news2me.com!elnk-pas-nf2!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142372 On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 06:30:06 GMT, bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote: >What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or >maybe that represent the best of) the knowledge, craft, culture, >and history of all the various areas of computing? As a history lesson one should include "The Bell System Technical Journal", Vol. 57, July-August 1978. This is the "Unix Time-Sharing System" edition with articles by Thompson, Ritchie, Bourne, Kernighan, Lycklama, etc., etc. jeverett3earthlinknet http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3 ###### From: uj797@victoria.tc.ca (Arthur T. Murray) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.ai.philosophy,misc.books.technical,soc.history.science,soc.libraries.talk Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: 23 Jun 2003 09:12:20 -0800 Organization: Victoria Telecommunity Network Message-ID: <3ef726e4@news.victoria.tc.ca> References: Summary: X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.60.222.3 XPident: uj797 X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 35 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!news.victoria.tc.ca!199.60.222.3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142307 shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) wrote on 23 Jun 2003: > bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote in message > news:... >> What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or >> maybe that represent the best of) the knowledge, craft, culture, >> and history of all the various areas of computing? > > Hofstadter's _Godel Escher Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid_ > included a rather good popularization of some of the AI > work that was done in the 60's and 70's. Some history of A truly eye-opening AI history book is "The Brain Makers: Genius, Ego and Greed in the Quest for Machines that Think" by Harvey Newquist [Sams Publishing, 1994]. > the computing culture at Stanford and MIT is intermingled, too. > > Again, far from a reference book on AI, but very high > in accessibility. Sort of like nobody would use Kidder's > _The Soul of a New Machine_ as a reference on how to run > a technology company or how to design a minicomputer :-) > > Tim. On the subject of artificial intelligence, please vote in the http://www.misterpoll.com/results.mpl?id=3599794787 on-line poll about which (links provided!) AI project is State-of-the-Art. A.T. Murray -- http://mind.sourceforge.net/weblog.html -- The AI Mind Project; http://www.seedai.e-mind.org/weblog.html -- Seed AI propagation; http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/weblog.html -- AI-Ready Robots; http://visitware.com/AI4U/weblog.html -- Mind-1.1 Textbook of AI. ###### From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: 23 Jun 2003 15:24:54 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.144 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1056407095 30134 127.0.0.1 (23 Jun 2003 22:24:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jun 2003 22:24:55 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142384 John Everett wrote in message news:... > On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 06:30:06 GMT, bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' > Chase) wrote: > > >What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or > >maybe that represent the best of) the knowledge, craft, culture, > >and history of all the various areas of computing? > > As a history lesson one should include "The Bell System Technical > Journal", Vol. 57, July-August 1978. This is the "Unix Time-Sharing > System" edition with articles by Thompson, Ritchie, Bourne, Kernighan, > Lycklama, etc., etc. As long as that's in there, I recommend _Fundamental Principles of Switching Circuits and Systems_, AT&T, early 1960's (my copy has neither a copyright nor any other publishing information). It builds up from discrete components to simple logic to twistor and flying-spot store to design of the Morris ESS. Tim. ###### From: Larry__Weiss Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:38:26 -0500 Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 11 Message-ID: <3EF7AB92.C123955B@airmail.net> References: Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:38:15 -0500 (CDT) NNTP-Posting-Host: !cMp$1k-Wcrl26'/i$9( (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142396 Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote: > What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or > maybe that represent the best of) the knowledge, craft, culture, > and history of all the various areas of computing? Ones which I > particularly value include: > Programming Languages: History and Fundamentals Jean E. Sammet ASIN 0-137-29988-5 ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) NNTP-Posting-Host: sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Message-ID: <3ef79e95$1@news.ucsc.edu> Date: 23 Jun 2003 17:43:01 -0800 X-Trace: 23 Jun 2003 17:43:01 -0800, sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Lines: 48 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.ucsc.edu!eugene Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142393 In article , Tim Shoppa wrote: >bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote in message news:... >> What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or >> maybe that represent the best of) the knowledge, craft, culture, >> and history of all the various areas of computing? Get available Knuthian volumes. Get the Encyclopedia of Computer Science (for all its warts). >Hofstadter's _Godel Escher Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid_ included a >rather good popularization of some of the AI work that was done in the >60's and 70's. Some history of the computing culture at Stanford and MIT >is intermingled, too. Good? Hummmmm. I read GEB on the side while in grad school shortly after it first came out. It took me 8 months, many notes, viewgraph foils, and looking up a few major references (really neat ones). Later, I had him by for a seminar at work's request. I'm not really certain that I would term it a history of AI, more some provoking ideas about recursion in worlds which have largely been computing recursion hostile due to Fortran, BASIC, and other earlier era languages when memory was more expensive. Over lunch and dinners, Doug wrote this book as a sort of counter point to his grad school with Terry Winograd. But I am not certain that Doug went that far or even far enough. Didn't Nils Nilsson do some big AI volumes back then? Those might be better. The problem with these AI guys is that they blow their contributions up way out of proportion (Deep Blue chess machines are good examples of recent claims: more hardware brute force than AI). And I think that major old historic problems like say the Halting problem have in a few cases become irrelevant (it would be interesting were Turing still alive to get his impressions). What little I saw of the MIT and Stanford AI communities, I've never seen in print. SAIL terminals ("Take me I'm yours..."), robot stories (as opposed to academic papers) which made fun of garbage collection (who ever heard fo GC in the Fortran environment?). These aren't things which really appear in print very well. >Again, far from a reference book on AI, but very high in accessibility. Sort >of like nobody would use Kidder's _The Soul of a New Machine_ as a reference >on how to run a technology company or how to design a minicomputer :-) You mean Kidder covers things like Ohm's law?! ;^) ###### From: Giles Todd Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:55:56 +0200 Reply-To: g@todd.nu Message-ID: Cancel-Lock: sha1:nskYuq6bJVUk2An8B4Naah8WXgE= References: <3EF41F83.D4B74259@airmail.net> <9hj2db.5k3.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <3EF4D466.1EEF7C34@airmail.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NFilter: 1.2.1-b1 Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jun 2003 03:56:17 CEST NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.127.198.243 X-Trace: 1056419777 news.xs4all.nl 49108 80.127.198.243:3186 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!transit.news.xs4all.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!xs4all!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142427 On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:46:10 +0000 (UTC), joe@jolomo.net wrote: > Not so long ago, Chris Hedley wrote: > > According to Larry__Weiss : > >> Ed Post, "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal", > >> DATAMATION, July 1983, pp. 263-265 (Readers' Forum). > >> > >> http://graphics.cs.ucdavis.edu/~brettw/insight/realprogrammers.html > > > Blimey, that was quick! > > Oh brother > > Unix is a lot more complicated of course -- the typical Unix > hacker never can remember what the PRINT command is called this > week -- but when it gets right down to it, Unix is a glorified > video game. People don't do Serious Work on Unix systems: they > send jokes around the world on UUCP-net and write adventure > games and research papers. This was written before UNIX (and its variants) became the platform of choice for Web servers. The Serious Work to which UNIX programmers are now generally dedicated is the propagation of pr0n and web logs on the Internerdwebnetnewsmailthingy. It's a hard job, but someone has to do it. Giles. ###### From: David Powell Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:01:36 +0100 Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <3EF41F83.D4B74259@airmail.net> <9hj2db.5k3.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <3EF4D466.1EEF7C34@airmail.net> Reply-To: ddotpowell@icuknet.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: 190.25.153.194.dial.uk.telenor.net (194.153.25.190) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1056420236 27467789 194.153.25.190 (16 [161127]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!190.25.153.194.dial.uk.telenor.NET!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142425 In article , joe@jolomo.net in alt.folklore.computers wrote: >Not so long ago, Chris Hedley wrote: >> According to Larry__Weiss : >>> Ed Post, "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal", >>> DATAMATION, July 1983, pp. 263-265 (Readers' Forum). >>> >>> http://graphics.cs.ucdavis.edu/~brettw/insight/realprogrammers.html > >> Blimey, that was quick! > >Oh brother > > Unix is a lot more complicated of course -- the typical Unix > hacker never can remember what the PRINT command is called this > week -- but when it gets right down to it, Unix is a glorified > video game. People don't do Serious Work on Unix systems: they > send jokes around the world on UUCP-net and write adventure > games and research papers. I'd like to believe:- http://www.humor.org/j/ajoke/000000475 If, only... (Just to save wear and tear on the electrons, the url refers to Computerword April 1, "UNIX HOAX".) Regards, David P. ###### From: Larry__Weiss Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:05:16 -0500 Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 32 Message-ID: <3EF7BFEC.81DFD4CA@airmail.net> References: <3EF41F83.D4B74259@airmail.net> <9hj2db.5k3.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <3EF4D466.1EEF7C34@airmail.net> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:05:06 -0500 (CDT) NNTP-Posting-Host: !^LfP1k-WedFb!=7O.O* (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142398 Giles Todd wrote: > On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 15:46:10 +0000 (UTC), joe@jolomo.net wrote: > > Not so long ago, Chris Hedley wrote: > > > According to Larry__Weiss : > > >> Ed Post, "Real Programmers Don't Use Pascal", > > >> DATAMATION, July 1983, pp. 263-265 (Readers' Forum). > > >> http://graphics.cs.ucdavis.edu/~brettw/insight/realprogrammers.html > > > Blimey, that was quick! > > Oh brother > > Unix is a lot more complicated of course -- the typical Unix > > hacker never can remember what the PRINT command is called this > > week -- but when it gets right down to it, Unix is a glorified > > video game. People don't do Serious Work on Unix systems: they > > send jokes around the world on UUCP-net and write adventure > > games and research papers. > > This was written before UNIX (and its variants) became the platform of > choice for Web servers. The Serious Work to which UNIX programmers > are now generally dedicated is the propagation of pr0n and web logs on > the Internerdwebnetnewsmailthingy. > > It's a hard job, but someone has to do it. > While we are on the subject of UNIX and it's "features" and also books that describe such remarkable technology, let me recommend The UNIX-HATERS Handbook Published by IDG Books, Programmers Press Simson Garfinkel, Daniel Weise, and Steven Strassmann ISBN 1-56884-203-1 ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: <3EF7BFEC.81DFD4CA@airmail.net> Sender: bdc@world.std.com Organization: HappyNet Bungalow X-No-Ahbou: yes X-No-Archive: Yes X-Face: "CVLf:[ Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.126.253.169 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc04 1056429008 24.126.253.169 (Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:30:08 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:30:08 GMT Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:30:08 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!small1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!border3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!sccrnsc04.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142403 In article <3EF7BFEC.81DFD4CA@airmail.net>, Larry__Weiss wrote: > While we are on the subject of UNIX and it's "features" and also > books that describe such remarkable technology, let me recommend > > The UNIX-HATERS Handbook > Published by IDG Books, Programmers Press > Simson Garfinkel, Daniel Weise, and Steven Strassmann > ISBN 1-56884-203-1 Now available for download in PDF form, I'd add: http://research.microsoft.com/~dweise/uhh-download.html -brian. ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:34:50 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: <3EF41F83.D4B74259@airmail.net> <9hj2db.5k3.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <3EF4D466.1EEF7C34@airmail.net> <3EF7BFEC.81DFD4CA@airmail.net> User-Agent: tin/1.5.17-20030407 ("Peephole") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.8-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 15 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142416 Larry__Weiss wrote: > While we are on the subject of UNIX and it's "features" and also > books that describe such remarkable technology, let me recommend > > The UNIX-HATERS Handbook > Published by IDG Books, Programmers Press > Simson Garfinkel, Daniel Weise, and Steven Strassmann > ISBN 1-56884-203-1 Available as PDF online these days - I've got it *somewhere*... ;) pete -- pete@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" HMHB ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:07:08 +0100 Organization: Titanic Enterprises Unlimited Lines: 22 Message-ID: <1056449229.342140@saucer.planet.gong> References: <3EF41F83.D4B74259@airmail.net> <9hj2db.5k3.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <3ef8168a$1@news.ucsc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: darkboong.demon.co.uk X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1056449227 7997 80.177.7.220 (24 Jun 2003 10:07:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:07:07 +0000 (UTC) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Priority: 3 X-Cache: nntpcache 3.0.1 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Cache-Post-Path: saucer.planet.gong!unknown@voodoo.planet.gong Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142412 "Eugene Miya" wrote in message news:3ef8168a$1@news.ucsc.edu... > >> Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote: > >> > What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or > >> All good choices, to which I add: > > cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) wrote: > >Probably also Douglas Adams' assorted works and > > An interesting choice. > I just left my copy of The Salmon of Doubt up in Alaska with friends. > It's a good choice. While he was a Mac fan and would be poo-pooed by PC > types, he was well connected. His Last Chance to See CD was very > interesting (I told him so, and we had a good conversation about it, > it is sad that he died here in CA). I'm pretty sure there are worse places to die. Cheers, Rupert ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: An a.f.c bibliography? References: Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) NNTP-Posting-Host: sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Message-ID: <3ef8150b$1@news.ucsc.edu> Date: 24 Jun 2003 02:08:27 -0800 X-Trace: 24 Jun 2003 02:08:27 -0800, sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Lines: 45 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!headwall.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.ucsc.edu!eugene Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142390 bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote: >someone mentioned _Hacker's Delight_ in a recent post; from what I If you liked that, much harder to find is Etudes for Programmers by Wetherell. >What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or >maybe that represent the best of) the knowledge, craft, culture, >and history of all the various areas of computing? Ones which I >particularly value include: Nice list. > TAOCP/DEK > The Elements of Programming Style, 2nd Ed. > Brian W. Kernighan and P.J. Plauger > McGraw-Hill, 1978 > ISBN 0-07-034207-5 Try Brian W. Kernighan and P.J. Plauger Software Tools > The C Programming Language, 2nd Ed. > Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie Brian W. Kernighan and Rob Pike The Unix Programming Environment Many of Tim O'Reilly's book series. > Programming Pearls > Jon Bentley > Addison-Wesley, 1986 > ISBN 0-201-10331-1 More Programming Pearls Jon Bentley ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: <3EF41F83.D4B74259@airmail.net> <9hj2db.5k3.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) NNTP-Posting-Host: sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Message-ID: <3ef8168a$1@news.ucsc.edu> Date: 24 Jun 2003 02:14:50 -0800 X-Trace: 24 Jun 2003 02:14:50 -0800, sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Lines: 14 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.ucsc.edu!eugene Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142391 >> Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote: >> > What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or >> All good choices, to which I add: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) wrote: >Probably also Douglas Adams' assorted works and An interesting choice. I just left my copy of The Salmon of Doubt up in Alaska with friends. It's a good choice. While he was a Mac fan and would be poo-pooed by PC types, he was well connected. His Last Chance to See CD was very interesting (I told him so, and we had a good conversation about it, it is sad that he died here in CA). ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: <9hj2db.5k3.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <3ef8168a$1@news.ucsc.edu> <1056449229.342140@saucer.planet.gong> Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:25:35 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jun 2003 12:41:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.3.247.95 X-Trace: 1056458461 news.gradwell.net 56602 cbh/80.3.247.95 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@gradwell.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!195.149.39.56.MISMATCH!news-peer-lilac.gradwell.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142400 According to Rupert Pigott : > "Eugene Miya" wrote in message > news:3ef8168a$1@news.ucsc.edu... > > An interesting choice. > > I just left my copy of The Salmon of Doubt up in Alaska with friends. > > It's a good choice. While he was a Mac fan and would be poo-pooed by PC > > types, he was well connected. His Last Chance to See CD was very > > interesting (I told him so, and we had a good conversation about it, > > it is sad that he died here in CA). I keep hearing Good Things about The Salmon of Doubt. I guess I'll eventually cave in and read it. :) > I'm pretty sure there are worse places to die. And worse ways, too, but I still feel we've been robbed of a great talent... Chris. -- "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84 Currently playing: random early '80s radio stuff http://www.chrishedley.com - assorted stuff, inc my genealogy. Gan canny! ###### From: Larry__Weiss Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:56:46 -0500 Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 24 Message-ID: <3EF866AE.CE39D1B3@airmail.net> References: <3ef79e95$1@news.ucsc.edu> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 09:56:40 -0500 (CDT) NNTP-Posting-Host: ![Q#91k-Xo)mCPH/i#Wk (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142432 Tim Shoppa wrote: > eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) wrote in message news:<3ef79e95$1@news.ucsc.edu>... > > In article , > > Tim Shoppa wrote: > > >Hofstadter's _Godel Escher Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid_ > > > > I'm not really certain that I would term it a history of AI, > That's OK, neither would I. > > ... But the book tries to do so much more, too! AI and recursion were > really just examples useful to making the book's real point. Some of us > latch onto the concrete examples because the big picture it tries to paint > is really so enormous! > The strange nature of self-reference is what I remember GEB:EGB illuminated for me. GEB:EGB was written to give one an understanding of the proof of Gödel's Theorem of Incompleteness, but it did much more for me. Much like Einstein's methods stick with me more so than his actual specific contributions to physics (particularly his Gedankenexperiment technique). ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: 24 Jun 2003 16:24:04 GMT Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Lines: 5 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1056471844 8101 134.117.136.30 (24 Jun 2003 16:24:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jun 2003 16:24:04 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.newsfeed.com!tdsnet-transit!newspeer.tds.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142457 Harlan Mills, circa 73 had a book out about structured programming in PL/I. This bag of poop software that I'm connected to at the moment, (hello M$, UNIX and other assorted crap), doesn't allow me to do a search while online. Sorry. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: <3ef79e95$1@news.ucsc.edu> <3EF866AE.CE39D1B3@airmail.net> Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) NNTP-Posting-Host: sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Message-ID: <3ef8a9f1$1@news.ucsc.edu> Date: 24 Jun 2003 12:43:45 -0800 X-Trace: 24 Jun 2003 12:43:45 -0800, sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Lines: 37 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.ucsc.edu!eugene Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142430 In article , Tim Shoppa wrote: >> > >Hofstadter's _Godel Escher Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid_ eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) wrote in message news:<3ef79e95$1@news.ucsc.edu>... >> > I'm not really certain that I would term it a history of AI, Tim Shoppa wrote: >> That's OK, neither would I. >> >> ... But the book tries to do so much more, too! AI and recursion were >> really just examples useful to making the book's real point. Some of us >> latch onto the concrete examples because the big picture it tries to paint >> is really so enormous! > In article <3EF866AE.CE39D1B3@airmail.net>, Larry__Weiss wrote: >The strange nature of self-reference is what I remember >GEB:EGB illuminated for me. I agree with you and Tim on these points. I'm not certain that I would use "strange" either. I enjoyed the way Dughuf weaved art, music, and computing together. But the book's high point, the Escher dragon biting his own tail (by his own admission) started to lose steam. Seek Doug out and dine with him some day. >GEB:EGB was written to give one an understanding of the proof of >Gödel's Theorem of Incompleteness, but it did much more for me. > >Much like Einstein's methods stick with me more so than his actual >specific contributions to physics (particularly his Gedankenexperiment >technique). Hmmmm.... ###### Message-ID: <3EF8D4E5.40D09E2D@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc54 1056487804 12.241.15.59 (Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:50:04 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:50:04 GMT Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:50:04 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!small1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!border3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc54.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142485 Tim Shoppa wrote: > > bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote in message news:... > > What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or > > maybe that represent the best of) the knowledge, craft, culture, > > and history of all the various areas of computing? > > Hofstadter's _Godel Escher Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid_ included a > rather good popularization of some of the AI work that was done in the > 60's and 70's. Some history of the computing culture at Stanford and MIT > is intermingled, too. > You mean like "SHRDLU: Toy of Man's Designing"??? -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3EF8D575.9C5AF496@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc54 1056487948 12.241.15.59 (Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:52:28 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:52:28 GMT Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:52:28 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!news.tiscali.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!wn13feed!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc54.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142486 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > > Harlan Mills, circa 73 had a book out about structured > programming in PL/I. This bag of poop software that I'm > connected to at the moment, (hello M$, UNIX and other > assorted crap), doesn't allow me to do a search while online. > Sorry. > So you have a copy of the infamous "Bag'O'Poop" software??? -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Wed, 25 Jun 03 09:31:58 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <3EF8D575.9C5AF496@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVb8daiVlknHCMll5IdiwF3svk+wXgI1myCj30E1QUDJRqQghv1aD+gt X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jun 2003 11:36:47 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!luth.se!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!209-122-236-87 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142502 In article <3EF8D575.9C5AF496@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >"Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: >> >> Harlan Mills, circa 73 had a book out about structured >> programming in PL/I. This bag of poop software that I'm >> connected to at the moment, (hello M$, UNIX and other >> assorted crap), doesn't allow me to do a search while online. >> Sorry. >> >So you have a copy of the infamous "Bag'O'Poop" software??? Did somebody remove the TP from the protocol? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Giles Todd Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 04:36:11 +0200 Reply-To: g@todd.nu Message-ID: <5n1ifv4521suvmq91o8ucdjn8qvneom8of@4ax.com> Cancel-Lock: sha1:FZRX8EUjTID1LZo7KHKJ5Y73PzU= References: <3EF7BFEC.81DFD4CA@airmail.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NFilter: 1.2.1-b1 Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jun 2003 04:36:29 CEST NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.127.198.243 X-Trace: 1056508589 news.xs4all.nl 49106 80.127.198.243:4889 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!transit.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142544 On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:30:08 GMT, bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote: > Now available for download in PDF form, I'd add: > http://research.microsoft.com/~dweise/uhh-download.html Thank you for that. I used to have that bookmarked but said bookmark was lost after my last, and most convincing, demonstration that Windows 2000's backup program does not, in fact, produce a file which Windows 2000's restore program can read (the target for the backup file was a disc on another machine on a Windows network which is backed up to tape -- the restore program hung whenever it was asked to read any version of the backup file). All I can say is 'silly me' for trusting the PR surrounding Windows 2000. Maybe XP will be better. <*cough*> <*cough*> <*cough*> Giles. ###### From: Larry__Weiss Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:08:06 -0500 Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 26 Message-ID: <3EF91216.482302E7@airmail.net> References: <3EF7BFEC.81DFD4CA@airmail.net> <5n1ifv4521suvmq91o8ucdjn8qvneom8of@4ax.com> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:07:57 -0500 (CDT) NNTP-Posting-Host: !W\H11k-X7O[%Yq1-^d! (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142494 Giles Todd wrote: > On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:30:08 GMT, bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' > Chase) wrote: > > Now available for download in PDF form, I'd add: > > http://research.microsoft.com/~dweise/uhh-download.html > > Thank you for that. I used to have that bookmarked but said bookmark > was lost after my last, and most convincing, demonstration that > Windows 2000's backup program does not, in fact, produce a file which > Windows 2000's restore program can read (the target for the backup > file was a disc on another machine on a Windows network which is > backed up to tape -- the restore program hung whenever it was asked to > read any version of the backup file). > > All I can say is 'silly me' for trusting the PR surrounding Windows > 2000. Maybe XP will be better. > http://www.art.net/Studios/Hackers/Hopkins/Don/unix-haters/handbook.html http://www.art.net/Studios/Hackers/Hopkins/Don/unix-haters/BarfBag.gif shows you what you are missing with just the PDF ... (cover illustration and official "UNIX Barf Bag" attached inside back cover...no wonder they are asking $99 and up for this one secondhand on Amazon! ) ###### From: Giles Todd Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:37:07 +0200 Reply-To: g@todd.nu Message-ID: Cancel-Lock: sha1:ENEYghjNdBQZW9A8pi9S7nlPqxs= References: <3EF7BFEC.81DFD4CA@airmail.net> <5n1ifv4521suvmq91o8ucdjn8qvneom8of@4ax.com> <3EF91216.482302E7@airmail.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NFilter: 1.2.1-b1 Lines: 34 NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jun 2003 05:37:17 CEST NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.127.198.243 X-Trace: 1056512237 news.xs4all.nl 49117 80.127.198.243:4987 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!transit.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142541 On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:08:06 -0500, Larry__Weiss wrote: > Giles Todd wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 04:30:08 GMT, bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' > > Chase) wrote: > > > Now available for download in PDF form, I'd add: > > > http://research.microsoft.com/~dweise/uhh-download.html > > > > Thank you for that. I used to have that bookmarked but said bookmark > > was lost after my last, and most convincing, demonstration that > > Windows 2000's backup program does not, in fact, produce a file which > > Windows 2000's restore program can read (the target for the backup > > file was a disc on another machine on a Windows network which is > > backed up to tape -- the restore program hung whenever it was asked to > > read any version of the backup file). > > > > All I can say is 'silly me' for trusting the PR surrounding Windows > > 2000. Maybe XP will be better. > > http://www.art.net/Studios/Hackers/Hopkins/Don/unix-haters/handbook.html > http://www.art.net/Studios/Hackers/Hopkins/Don/unix-haters/BarfBag.gif > > shows you what you are missing with just the PDF ... > (cover illustration and official "UNIX Barf Bag" attached inside > back cover...no wonder they are asking $99 and up for this > one secondhand on Amazon! ) Curse the man who says that irony is lost on Americans. Giles. -- I give up. I mean, really, how many more clues could I have given? What did I miss? Custard pies? Pancake makeup? ###### From: ab528@freenet.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 03:32:54 -0400 Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Lines: 8 Sender: ab528@freenet.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Message-ID: References: <3EF8D575.9C5AF496@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p31.tc0.std.dialup.ncf.ca X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1056526437 16634 134.117.137.62 (25 Jun 2003 07:33:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jun 2003 07:33:57 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Given-From: "Heinz Wiggeshoff" Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142514 "Charles Richmond" wrote in message news:3EF8D575.9C5AF496@ev1.net... > So you have a copy of the infamous "Bag'O'Poop" software??? Nope. The reference eludes me. ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.147.131.211 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: <86fjfvo1o3rha1qahev2igq2tivvskae65@4ax.com> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:27:20 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.146 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news1.calgary.shaw.ca 1056554840 24.71.223.146 (Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:27:20 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:27:20 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.newsfeed.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news1.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142578 On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 06:30:06 GMT in alt.folklore.computers, bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote: >What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or >maybe that represent the best of) the knowledge, craft, culture, >and history of all the various areas of computing? various, Larry Constantine "Calendrical Calculations", Nachum Dershowitz & Edward M. Reingold various, A.K.Dewdney "Computers & Typesetting" series, Donald E. Knuth "Linkers & Loaders", John R. Levine "Programming on Purpose" series, P. J. Plauger "Hacker's Delight", Henry S. Warren, Jr. "High Performance Compilers for Parallel Computing", Michael Wolfe various, Ed Yourdon Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply ###### Message-ID: <3EF9EC1C.49204D5C@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: <3EF8D575.9C5AF496@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc03 1056559284 12.241.15.59 (Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:41:24 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:41:24 GMT Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:41:24 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!sccrnsc03.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142575 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article <3EF8D575.9C5AF496@ev1.net>, > Charles Richmond wrote: > >"Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > >> > >> Harlan Mills, circa 73 had a book out about structured > >> programming in PL/I. This bag of poop software that I'm > >> connected to at the moment, (hello M$, UNIX and other > >> assorted crap), doesn't allow me to do a search while online. > >> Sorry. > >> > >So you have a copy of the infamous "Bag'O'Poop" software??? > > Did somebody remove the TP from the protocol? > So let's see if I have this right: You use the TP protocol to "wipe" the Bag'O'Poop software from your disk drive. Then you "flush" the buffers and you should be running clean... -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Thu, 26 Jun 03 09:00:08 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <3EF8D575.9C5AF496@ev1.net> <3EF9EC1C.49204D5C@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZ3Q65liOlosx/GwT2hEmTbuZlV7SvYwrIZWulb10G0h11SdEfDNPqA X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Jun 2003 11:05:06 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-18 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142598 In article <3EF9EC1C.49204D5C@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> In article <3EF8D575.9C5AF496@ev1.net>, >> Charles Richmond wrote: >> >"Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: >> >> >> >> Harlan Mills, circa 73 had a book out about structured >> >> programming in PL/I. This bag of poop software that I'm >> >> connected to at the moment, (hello M$, UNIX and other >> >> assorted crap), doesn't allow me to do a search while online. >> >> Sorry. >> >> >> >So you have a copy of the infamous "Bag'O'Poop" software??? >> >> Did somebody remove the TP from the protocol? >> >So let's see if I have this right: You use the TP protocol >to "wipe" the Bag'O'Poop software from your disk drive. Then >you "flush" the buffers and you should be running clean... > Only if there's a pipeline connected to refill the tank. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Larry__Weiss Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:05:04 -0500 Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 11 Message-ID: <3EFAFD90.CC88145F@airmail.net> References: Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:04:55 -0500 (CDT) NNTP-Posting-Host: !_.S`1k-Wsf@HEN/i"=F (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142589 Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote: > What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or > maybe that represent the best of) the knowledge, craft, culture, > and history of all the various areas of computing? > A "classic" from the early days of computer graphics endeavors: Principles of Interactive Computer Graphics William M. Newman, Robert F. Sproull ASIN 0-070-46338-7 ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Charles Shannon Hendrix Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: <3EF7BFEC.81DFD4CA@airmail.net> <5n1ifv4521suvmq91o8ucdjn8qvneom8of@4ax.com> Reply-To: cshSPAM@SPAM.widomaker.com User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (Linux) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:39:41 -0400 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.96.185.237 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 1056640238 209.96.185.237 (26 Jun 2003 10:10:38 -0500) Lines: 23 X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 100,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!news-out.spamkiller.net!local!corp.newsgroups.com!escape.shannon.net!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142623 In article <5n1ifv4521suvmq91o8ucdjn8qvneom8of@4ax.com>, Giles Todd wrote: > All I can say is 'silly me' for trusting the PR surrounding Windows > 2000. Maybe XP will be better. At this point, if Microsoft released a fully working and decent OS, I'd likely still not use it. I think that their crimes need to be answered. Any decent thing they do comes out of decades of screwing everyone and the industry. -- Ah... you gotta love it when your ISP switches to a SPAMMING newsfeed. Sigh... -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ###### Message-ID: <3EFB3691.F9093CA4@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: <3EF8D575.9C5AF496@ev1.net> <3EF9EC1C.49204D5C@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 33 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net 1056643881 12.241.15.59 (Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:11:21 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:11:21 GMT Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 16:11:21 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed2.easynews.com!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!small1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!border3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142645 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article <3EF9EC1C.49204D5C@ev1.net>, > Charles Richmond wrote: > >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> > >> In article <3EF8D575.9C5AF496@ev1.net>, > >> Charles Richmond wrote: > >> >"Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Harlan Mills, circa 73 had a book out about structured > >> >> programming in PL/I. This bag of poop software that I'm > >> >> connected to at the moment, (hello M$, UNIX and other > >> >> assorted crap), doesn't allow me to do a search while online. > >> >> Sorry. > >> >> > >> >So you have a copy of the infamous "Bag'O'Poop" software??? > >> > >> Did somebody remove the TP from the protocol? > >> > >So let's see if I have this right: You use the TP protocol > >to "wipe" the Bag'O'Poop software from your disk drive. Then > >you "flush" the buffers and you should be running clean... > > > Only if there's a pipeline connected to refill the tank. > So the only systems that can run Bag'O'Poop software are the ones that do instruction pipelining... -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Fri, 27 Jun 03 08:53:49 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <3EF8D575.9C5AF496@ev1.net> <3EF9EC1C.49204D5C@ev1.net> <3EFB3691.F9093CA4@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVawsawq99xwrD5gW6KqrEfL8FYBKaC8+nrZ6ArTUIbNImK/XhWhFVGv X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jun 2003 10:58:58 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!208-59-181-162 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142674 In article <3EFB3691.F9093CA4@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> In article <3EF9EC1C.49204D5C@ev1.net>, >> Charles Richmond wrote: >> >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> >> >> In article <3EF8D575.9C5AF496@ev1.net>, >> >> Charles Richmond wrote: >> >> >"Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Harlan Mills, circa 73 had a book out about structured >> >> >> programming in PL/I. This bag of poop software that I'm >> >> >> connected to at the moment, (hello M$, UNIX and other >> >> >> assorted crap), doesn't allow me to do a search while online. >> >> >> Sorry. >> >> >> >> >> >So you have a copy of the infamous "Bag'O'Poop" software??? >> >> >> >> Did somebody remove the TP from the protocol? >> >> >> >So let's see if I have this right: You use the TP protocol >> >to "wipe" the Bag'O'Poop software from your disk drive. Then >> >you "flush" the buffers and you should be running clean... >> > >> Only if there's a pipeline connected to refill the tank. >> >So the only systems that can run Bag'O'Poop software are >the ones that do instruction pipelining... > Yup. It's called recycling the bits. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: <3EFAFD90.CC88145F@airmail.net> Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) NNTP-Posting-Host: sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Message-ID: <3efb759e$1@news.ucsc.edu> Date: 26 Jun 2003 15:37:18 -0800 X-Trace: 26 Jun 2003 15:37:18 -0800, sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.ucsc.edu!eugene Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142658 Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote: >> What I'm wondering is, what are the books that best represent (or >> maybe that represent the best of) the knowledge, craft, culture, >> and history of all the various areas of computing? In article <3EFAFD90.CC88145F@airmail.net>, Larry__Weiss wrote: > Newman & Sproull That reminds me that I rememebred 2 others (I think I mentioned Wulf's Optimizing Compiler book): --N. Wirth, Algorithms + Data Structures = Programs "...decisions about structuring data cannot be made without knowledge of the algorithms applied to the data and that, vice versa, the structure of and choice of algorithms often strongly depend on the structure of the underlying data. In short, the subjects of program composition and data structuring are inseparably intertwined." And since Levy and Kidder were mentioned, you guys might want to start thinking about this one even if the computing part is weak: Gearheads: The Turbulent Rise of Robotic Sports Brad Stone ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: <5n1ifv4521suvmq91o8ucdjn8qvneom8of@4ax.com> Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) NNTP-Posting-Host: sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Message-ID: <3efb7625$1@news.ucsc.edu> Date: 26 Jun 2003 15:39:33 -0800 X-Trace: 26 Jun 2003 15:39:33 -0800, sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.ucsc.edu!eugene Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142657 In article , Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote: >In article <5n1ifv4521suvmq91o8ucdjn8qvneom8of@4ax.com>, Giles Todd wrote: >> All I can say is 'silly me' for trusting the PR surrounding Windows >> 2000. Maybe XP will be better. > >At this point, if Microsoft released a fully working and decent OS, I'd >likely still not use it. > >I think that their crimes need to be answered. > >Any decent thing they do comes out of decades of screwing everyone and >the industry. After biking pas the Mtn. View campus. MS is kind of too easy a target. As a field, we are our own worst enemy. Even in the Doug Adams quote about applications, he's got it right. Independent of MS's "crimes." ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Tue, 01 Jul 03 08:46:55 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <3f007827$1@news.ucsc.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaL/Tfc9cYpT9eKpQDb8WSlxTBvzDBOuIt3Jrjrj6LV2vWQ02sqNLFJ X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Jul 2003 10:52:45 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!208-59-181-68 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:143039 In article <3f007827$1@news.ucsc.edu>, eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) wrote: >In article , >Greg Menke wrote: >>jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >>Were you born impolite or do you have to practice? Did I say I > >That's our Barb. > Thank you. That's the nicest thing you've said about me. ;-) /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) NNTP-Posting-Host: sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Message-ID: <3f007827$1@news.ucsc.edu> Date: 30 Jun 2003 10:49:27 -0800 X-Trace: 30 Jun 2003 10:49:27 -0800, sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Lines: 7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!128.114.129.38.MISMATCH!news.ucsc.edu!eugene Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:143249 In article , Greg Menke wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >Were you born impolite or do you have to practice? Did I say I That's our Barb. ###### Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 19:49:51 +0200 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Message-ID: <20030701194951.7824f74f.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3f007827$1@news.ucsc.edu> X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.9.1 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Organization: Wanadoo NNTP-Posting-Date: 01 Jul 2003 20:08:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: rot2-p2519.dial.wanadoo.nl X-Trace: 1057090094 maya.euronet.nl 76745 194.134.139.215:1882 X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!luth.se!skynet.be!skynet.be!213.51.129.3.MISMATCH!newshub1.home.nl!home.nl!amsnews01.chello.com!news2.euro.net!postnews1.euro.net!news.wanadoo.nl!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:143132 On Tue, 01 Jul 03 08:46:55 GMT jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: JC> In article <3f007827$1@news.ucsc.edu>, JC> eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) wrote: JC> >In article , JC> >Greg Menke wrote: JC> >>jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: JC> >>Were you born impolite or do you have to practice? Did I say I JC> > JC> >That's our Barb. JC> > JC> Thank you. That's the nicest thing you've said about me. ;-) If this group ever meets physically remind me not to get between you two. -- C:>WIN | Directable Mirrors The computer obeys and wins. |A Better Way To Focus The Sun You lose and Bill collects. | licenses available - see: | http://www.sohara.org/ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? References: <3f007827$1@news.ucsc.edu> <20030701194951.7824f74f.steveo@eircom.net> Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) NNTP-Posting-Host: sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Message-ID: <3f02037b$1@news.ucsc.edu> Date: 1 Jul 2003 14:56:11 -0800 X-Trace: 1 Jul 2003 14:56:11 -0800, sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Lines: 31 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.ucsc.edu!eugene Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:142951 In article <20030701194951.7824f74f.steveo@eircom.net>, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >On Tue, 01 Jul 03 08:46:55 GMT >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >JC> In article <3f007827$1@news.ucsc.edu>, >JC> eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) wrote: >JC> >In article , >JC> >Greg Menke wrote: >JC> >>jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:... >JC> >>Were you born impolite or do you have to practice? Did I say I >JC> > >JC> >That's our Barb. >JC> > >JC> Thank you. That's the nicest thing you've said about me. ;-) It seemed the logical thing to say. 8^) > If this group ever meets physically remind me not to get between >you two. Well, I pulled off a ca-fest in comp.arch with 18 people, which was an amazing number to me. There was talk of "quarterly" (that's pretty ambitious in my book). And since that time I did the CCA with the Bells (a possible second ca-fest location and with good bait, too). I am not clear when I will have another business trip to the Boston/New England area, but stranger things have happened. I have to maintain my own bibliography and my news group. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: An a.f.c bibliography? Date: Wed, 02 Jul 03 08:34:01 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <3f007827$1@news.ucsc.edu> <20030701194951.7824f74f.steveo@eircom.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbsa/DGRrEyqfAMXxRzhHRZY72lZIlDKYLJ+y86/2Jn4B/8AOKDfnX4 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Jul 2003 10:40:04 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!208-59-181-150 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:143287 In article <20030701194951.7824f74f.steveo@eircom.net>, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >On Tue, 01 Jul 03 08:46:55 GMT >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >JC> In article <3f007827$1@news.ucsc.edu>, >JC> eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) wrote: >JC> >In article , >JC> >Greg Menke wrote: >JC> >>jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >JC> >>Were you born impolite or do you have to practice? Did I say I >JC> > >JC> >That's our Barb. >JC> > >JC> Thank you. That's the nicest thing you've said about me. ;-) > > If this group ever meets physically remind me not to get between >you two. > ROTFLMAO. Bring blood. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.