From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca () Subject: Extending 5-level code Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Organization: Edmonton Community Network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.6] Lines: 31 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:21:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.206.2 X-Trace: localhost 1048612918 198.161.206.2 (Tue, 25 Mar 2003 10:21:58 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 10:21:58 MST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!localhost!jsavard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133316 Perhaps comp.dcom.telecom is moderated; a post of mine seems to have gone astray. On http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto/tele03.htm I've added the image of the Thai 6-level code that I previously promised/threatened... it's based partly on Dik Winters' page and partly on an image in the old McGraw-Hill Handbook for Communications Engineers... I made an effort to make it legible and unambiguous, but it may have errors and it certainly has omissions. Earlier, I had added the Russian teletypewriter code from where I saw it finally... anyways, all this, along with ASCII over AMTOR, inspired me to devise, using a standard which I suspect is little-known and little-used as my basis, a scheme which I think is not too bad for pretty much allowing all of UNICODE to be sent using 5-level code. It's down at the bottom of the page. Basically, ALT is used to shift a single character into an extended repertoire, to save bandwidth, and LTRS might shift you into Latin or Greek or Russian, as determined by various combinations of two shift code, as well as shifting you to either upper- or lower- case depending on what has gone before. Provision for languages like Chinese is even described. John Savard ###### From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca () Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers References: Organization: Edmonton Community Network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.6] Lines: 15 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:23:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.206.2 X-Trace: localhost 1048616616 198.161.206.2 (Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:23:36 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 11:23:36 MST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!localhost!jsavard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133314 jsavard@ecn.ab.ca wrote: : http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto/tele03.htm ... after patting myself on the back about how this system would support even Chinese, and then reflecting that someone could even include Egyptian hieroglyphics for some *really* amusing teleprinter output in the event of static... I realized that when my scheme hits the Japanese language, it crashes and burns, horribly. However, I have now included a fix. John Savard ###### From: "George R. Gonzalez" Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 10:31:31 -0800 Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: X-Trace: lenny.tc.umn.edu 1048703491 19086 160.94.172.8 (26 Mar 2003 18:31:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@lenny.tc.umn.edu X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!lenny.tc.umn.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133449 Back around 1980, I was tuning in some 5-level AP news on the shortwave bands. I noticed the tty was sputtering a bit at the beginning of every sentence, and at a few other times. By turning on the tape punch, I figured out that AP had some ad-hoc capitalization convention-- a null character (00000) meant the next character was upper-case, otherwise I guess everything else was lower case. I wonder how prevalent this was, and if it was a "standard" of some sort. Regards, George ###### From: "Norman Brooks" Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers References: Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Lines: 42 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:38:52 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.138.5.78 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 1048729133 24.138.5.78 (Wed, 26 Mar 2003 20:38:53 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 20:38:53 EST Organization: WorldCom Canada Ltd. News Reader Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133623 Could well have been as the original baudot code listed 00000 as 'unused'. However, as 11111 and 11011 switched between letters and figures and almost all of the "lower case" characters (in CAPS on most machines) had numbers or special characters on the other 'case' it's hard to figure out how you would switch back. They would have had to have their own special machines which could switch back after every iteration of a "caps" letter. This would severely slow the machine if any large amount of capitalized characters needed to be sent ! "George R. Gonzalez" wrote in message news:b5srm3$ike$1@lenny.tc.umn.edu... > Back around 1980, I was tuning in some 5-level AP news on the shortwave > bands. > I noticed the tty was sputtering a bit at the beginning of every sentence, > and at a few > other times. By turning on the tape punch, I figured out that AP had some > ad-hoc > capitalization convention-- a null character (00000) meant the next > character was upper-case, > otherwise I guess everything else was lower case. > > I wonder how prevalent this was, and if it was a "standard" of some sort. > > Regards, > > George > > > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.465 / Virus Database: 263 - Release Date: 25/03/2003 ###### From: Eric Fischer Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Date: 27 Mar 2003 07:11:20 GMT Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZSwgd+9vLSlPn6+cBdljnBpctdVXZWcxd+jxh2ChIGuqn7i9da9tsS X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Mar 2003 07:11:20 GMT Originator: eric@ellibrocorto.com (eric fischer) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133563 George R. Gonzalez wrote: > Back around 1980, I was tuning in some 5-level AP news on the shortwave > bands. I noticed the tty was sputtering a bit at the beginning of every > sentence, and at a few other times. By turning on the tape punch, I > figured out that AP had some ad-hoc capitalization convention-- a null > character (00000) meant the next character was upper-case, otherwise I > guess everything else was lower case. > > I wonder how prevalent this was, and if it was a "standard" of some sort. I don't know. There is, however, a CCITT standard (Recommendation S.2, "Coding Scheme using International Telegraph Alphabet No. 2 (ITA2) to Allow the Transmission of Capital and Small Letters") that encodes case by patterns of repeated shift characters. You send FS LS LS to initialize the terminal to lower case letters. You can send a single capital letter with LS followed by the letter from the letters case, or LS LS followed by the letter from the figures case. You can turn go into all-caps mode by sending LS FS; an LS from the figures case there will take you back to lower case. The standard gives the impression that the null character is intended to take you to a fourth case of national-use characters but doesn't give any details. Eric ###### Message-ID: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> From: Lassi =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hippel=E4inen?= Organization: United Boojums X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Nokia} (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: fi,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 9 Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 11:06:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 172.21.194.81 X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@nokia.com X-Trace: news1.nokia.com 1048763175 172.21.194.81 (Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:06:15 EET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:06:15 EET Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news1.spb.su!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!nntp.inet.fi!inet.fi!newsfeed1.nokia.com!news1.nokia.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133689 Eric Fischer wrote: <...> > The standard gives the impression that the null character is intended > to take you to a fourth case of national-use characters but doesn't > give any details. The null character is needed to produce empty punch tape. -- Lassi ###### From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca () Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers References: Organization: Edmonton Community Network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.6] Lines: 21 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:20:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.206.2 X-Trace: localhost 1048778408 198.161.206.2 (Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:20:08 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 08:20:08 MST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!newsfeed.grouptelecom.net!localhost!jsavard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133558 The new content on the scheme to extend the 5-level code noted has been moved to http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto/mi6133.htm with some additions and extensions, although some of the added content, such as the illustration of the Thai teletypewriter code, remains on the original page http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto/tele03.htm and, also, one important change has been made. In addition to more fully outlining the hierarchical nature of my proposal, and noting that the overall framework of switching between national character sets can exist independently of my proposal to change the use of character no. 32, I have also changed the code for selecting national character sets from LTRS ALT ALT to ALT ALT LTRS. John Savard ###### From: "keep-it-clean" Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers References: Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Lines: 4 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 01:14:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.89.171.235 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1048814069 12.89.171.235 (Fri, 28 Mar 2003 01:14:29 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 01:14:29 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.news2me.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133790 IIRC, it was possible to option the 5-level TTY printers to "unshift on space". ###### From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca () Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers References: Organization: Edmonton Community Network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.6] Lines: 9 Message-ID: <3NQga.3617$qn.430735@localhost> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 05:08:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.206.2 X-Trace: localhost 1048828095 198.161.206.2 (Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:08:15 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:08:15 MST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!proxad.net!proxad.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!racoon.vif.com!newsfeed.grouptelecom.net!localhost!jsavard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133725 keep-it-clean (keep-it-clean@worldnet.att.net) wrote: : IIRC, it was possible to option the 5-level TTY printers to "unshift on : space". Yes; this was done as a preventative measure, so that over the radio, errors of missed characters would not cause a long stretch of words to appear in figures case. John Savard ###### Message-ID: <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net 1048840843 12.241.15.59 (Fri, 28 Mar 2003 08:40:43 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 08:40:43 GMT Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 08:40:43 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!wn14feed!wn13feed!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133847 Lassi Hippeläinen wrote: > > Eric Fischer wrote: > <...> > > The standard gives the impression that the null character is intended > > to take you to a fourth case of national-use characters but doesn't > > give any details. > > The null character is needed to produce empty punch tape. > The null character is necessary...for all those TTY's out there to have time to return the carriage before more characters come in that needed to be printed. And sometimes...when I am feeling *very* low...I feel like I *am* the null character... ;-) As the newspaper man said: "You are born, and you die. All the rest is just filler..." -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3E8426FB.2012E608@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <6ZLga.1277$1O3.46225@news.uswest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net 1048841042 12.241.15.59 (Fri, 28 Mar 2003 08:44:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 08:44:02 GMT Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 08:44:02 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!wn13feed!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133842 Russ Holsclaw wrote: > > "Lassi Hippeläinen" wrote > in message news:3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid... > > Eric Fischer wrote: > > <...> > > > The standard gives the impression that the null character > > > is intended to take you to a fourth case of national-use > > > characters but doesn't give any details. > > > > The null character is needed to produce empty punch tape. > > > > Yes... paper tape leaders and trailers usually have no holes > other than the little feed-sprocket holes near the center. > I thought that Lassi meant null characters were use in the manufacture of paper tape... ;-) For paper tape leaders, didn't many folks have programs that would produce "banner" style letters along the tape to identify what the program punched there was??? -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: "Andrew Swallow" Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 11:07:07 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <6ZLga.1277$1O3.46225@news.uswest.net> <3E8426FB.2012E608@ev1.net> Reply-To: "Andrew Swallow" NNTP-Posting-Host: host217-40-239-71.in-addr.btopenworld.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: hercules.btinternet.com 1048849627 23749 217.40.239.71 (28 Mar 2003 11:07:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 11:07:07 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1123 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1123 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133818 "Charles Richmond" wrote in message news:3E8426FB.2012E608@ev1.net... [snip] > > For paper tape leaders, didn't many folks have programs that > would produce "banner" style letters along the tape to > identify what the program punched there was??? > There are plenty of such programs around. Some were even built into mini computer operating systems. However they were not part of either the ITA2 or ITA5 standards. Andrew Swallow ###### From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca () Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> Organization: Edmonton Community Network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.6] Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3PXga.3625$qn.432002@localhost> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 13:08:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.206.2 X-Trace: localhost 1048856895 198.161.206.2 (Fri, 28 Mar 2003 06:08:15 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 06:08:15 MST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!proxad.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!newsfeed.grouptelecom.net!localhost!jsavard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133723 Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) wrote: : The null character is necessary...for all those TTY's out : there to have time to return the carriage before more : characters come in that needed to be printed. Well, one *could* just stick in extra FIGS characters or extra LTRS characters, depending on the case one is in. Or one can simply abstain from sending characters for a while - that is, maintain a continuous mark condition. That, of course, is the best method, avoiding wear and tear on the machine at the receiving end. John Savard ###### From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca () Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> Organization: Edmonton Community Network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.6] Lines: 42 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 13:22:31 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.206.2 X-Trace: localhost 1048857751 198.161.206.2 (Fri, 28 Mar 2003 06:22:31 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 06:22:31 MST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!news.uunet.ca!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!newsfeed.grouptelecom.net!localhost!jsavard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133732 : > Eric Fischer wrote: : > > The standard gives the impression that the null character is intended : > > to take you to a fourth case of national-use characters but doesn't : > > give any details. It should be noted that this post, the one it is a reply to, and the reply to it, did not show up on my mail server. What the CCITT/ITU Recommendation S.2 is referring to is the existing practise, in some countries, of using the null character as a third shift, alongside the letters shift and figures shift, by means of which a non-Latin alphabet can be accessed. This is done in Russia and Greece as well as in other countries. This is left up to the country concerned, and is not an international standard. My web site shows the particular scheme in use for Russian, on the page http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto/tele03.htm and it is possible to see that this has its limitations. If the alphabet has more than 26 characters, one has to use some figures-shift positions, just as one has to for accented letters in some European languages using the Latin alphabet. This is why I decided it was time to come up with an alternative. I've continued to flesh it out, and to try and make my explanation clearer. It is now explicit on my page at http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto/mi6133.htm that the scheme I propose involves a hierarchy with as many as eight levels. Also, where I note the possibility of integrating other types of character repertoires in my scheme, under the Type I character repertoire, I note that the ALT character can be used in a bandwidth-conserving fashion, thanks to the post to which this post was a reply. John Savard ###### Message-ID: <3E844CF2.46D2C2E4@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> From: Lassi =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hippel=E4inen?= Organization: United Boojums X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Nokia} (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: fi,en,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> <3PXga.3625$qn.432002@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 13:29:24 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 172.21.192.148 X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@nokia.com X-Trace: news2.nokia.com 1048858164 172.21.192.148 (Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:29:24 EET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:29:24 EET Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed.vmunix.org!uio.no!uninett.no!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.bredband.com!bredband!newsfeed2.fi.sn.net!fi.sn.net!newsfeed1.fi.sn.net!nntp.inet.fi!inet.fi!newsfeed1.nokia.com!news1.nokia.com!news2.nokia.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133856 jsavard@ecn.ab.ca wrote: > > Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) wrote: > > : The null character is necessary...for all those TTY's out > : there to have time to return the carriage before more > : characters come in that needed to be printed. > > Well, one *could* just stick in extra FIGS characters or extra LTRS > characters, depending on the case one is in. I've seen the sequence return, return, linefeed. First I thought the second return is there just to make sure, but then I met an old teletype... > Or one can simply abstain from sending characters for a while - that is, > maintain a continuous mark condition. That, of course, is the best method, > avoiding wear and tear on the machine at the receiving end. That wasn't always an option. For example, when the stuff came from a punch tape reader. In the all-mecahnical days there were no computers between the reader and the printer. -- Lassi ###### From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca () Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> Organization: Edmonton Community Network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.6] Lines: 8 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:53:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.206.2 X-Trace: localhost 1048870424 198.161.206.2 (Fri, 28 Mar 2003 09:53:44 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 09:53:44 MST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!eusc.inter.net!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!newsfeed.grouptelecom.net!localhost!jsavard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133724 I have continued to make additions and changes to the page at http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto/mi6133.htm to re-order the hierarchy, and to add an additional diagram to try and make my rather complicated notion a bit clearer. John Savard ###### From: "Nico de Jong" Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> <3PXga.3625$qn.432002@localhost> <3E844CF2.46D2C2E4@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Lines: 19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:27:29 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.142.193.202 X-Complaints-To: abuse@get2.net X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1048879883 129.142.193.202 (Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:31:23 CET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:31:23 CET Organization: get2net Internet Kunde Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed.vmunix.org!uio.no!uninett.no!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133775 > That wasn't always an option. For example, when the stuff came from a > punch tape reader. In the all-mecahnical days there were no computers > between the reader and the printer. When I was a teleprinter operator in the dutch PTT, we had a radio connection with some very rudimental CRC or parity check to Milano and Rome. When errors were found. the noisy end of the connection would fall silent, and after seconds or minutes characters would be printed out at a 55 or 60 bps rate until the buffer was empty, or a new error occurred.. The norm at that time was 50. We normally used Siemens T37's, but T100s could also be in use. In order to have to T100's align the carriage, it would need CR-CR-LF-LTR-LTR. If a CR was missing, characters could be written on the paper, whilst the printhead assembly was still busy returning to the left side of the paper. Our "fill character" was the LTR. I've never seen the use of the NULL character in traffic. Nico ###### Message-ID: <3E86B8ED.EE6DB319@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> <3PXga.3625$qn.432002@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc04 1049009478 12.241.15.59 (Sun, 30 Mar 2003 07:31:18 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 07:31:18 GMT Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 07:31:18 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!wn13feed!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!sccrnsc04.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133943 jsavard@ecn.ab.ca wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > I have tried once again to modify my page to make my wild and complicated > proposal a bit more intelligible, and I think I've finally succeeded. > ...you forgot "ornate and byzantine"...or perhaps "baroque". If you attempt to make any money with this five-digit code, I predict that you will go "baroque"... ;-) -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 08:49:35 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <3E87120F.3060300@jetnet.ab.ca> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20021005 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> <3PXga.3625$qn.432002@localhost> <3E86B8ED.EE6DB319@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133904 Charles Richmond wrote: > jsavard@ecn.ab.ca wrote: > >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> >>I have tried once again to modify my page to make my wild and complicated >>proposal a bit more intelligible, and I think I've finally succeeded. >> > > ...you forgot "ornate and byzantine"...or perhaps "baroque". > If you attempt to make any money with this five-digit code, > I predict that you will go "baroque"... ;-) I am just waiting for a NEW 5 level TTY to come out. Remeber all coding/decoding is mechanical! Ben. ###### From: Mok-Kong Shen Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 20:20:35 +0200 Organization: T-Online Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3E873573.B8ED2F6D@t-online.de> References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.t-online.com 1049048436 02 21906 nReKEB-VSnaWmW 030330 18:20:36 X-Complaints-To: abuse@t-online.com X-ID: S3Ov66ZDgei+QR13cEm18L6C4ZHmgCyXYAk-9OtylcmIwq5kv-2q8Y X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [de]C-CCK-MCD DT (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: de Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!mephistopheles.news.clara.net!news.clara.net!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsmm00.sul.t-online.com!t-online.de!news.t-online.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133906 jsavard@ecn.ab.ca wrote: > > I have continued to make additions and changes to the page at > > http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto/mi6133.htm > > to re-order the hierarchy, and to add an additional diagram to try and > make my rather complicated notion a bit clearer. A question of ignorance: Are there any normally operating (as against hobbyists' usage) hardware today employing 5-level teletypewriter code? (Decades ago I used paper tapes with such coding for writing programs but never used them again after switching to punched cards.) M. K. Shen ###### From: "Andrew Swallow" Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:40:13 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> <3E873573.B8ED2F6D@t-online.de> Reply-To: "Andrew Swallow" NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-121-145.in-addr.btopenworld.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: titan.btinternet.com 1049067613 4172 213.123.121.145 (30 Mar 2003 23:40:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:40:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1123 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1123 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsr1.ipcore.viaginterkom.de!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133973 "Mok-Kong Shen" wrote in message news:3E873573.B8ED2F6D@t-online.de... > > > jsavard@ecn.ab.ca wrote: > > > > I have continued to make additions and changes to the page at > > > > http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto/mi6133.htm > > > > to re-order the hierarchy, and to add an additional diagram to try and > > make my rather complicated notion a bit clearer. > > A question of ignorance: Are there any normally operating > (as against hobbyists' usage) hardware today employing > 5-level teletypewriter code? (Decades ago I used paper > tapes with such coding for writing programs but never > used them again after switching to punched cards.) > Ten years ago there was such machines in use by the military. Andrew Swallow ###### Message-ID: <3E87DA9C.DA4C36D0@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> <3PXga.3625$qn.432002@localhost> <3E86B8ED.EE6DB319@ev1.net> <3E87120F.3060300@jetnet.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc54 1049083638 12.241.15.59 (Mon, 31 Mar 2003 04:07:18 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 04:07:18 GMT Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 04:07:18 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!colt.net!nycmny1-snf1.gtei.net!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!chcgil2-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc54.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133983 bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca wrote: > > Charles Richmond wrote: > > jsavard@ecn.ab.ca wrote: > > > >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > >> > >>I have tried once again to modify my page to make my wild and complicated > >>proposal a bit more intelligible, and I think I've finally succeeded. > >> > > > > ...you forgot "ornate and byzantine"...or perhaps "baroque". > > If you attempt to make any money with this five-digit code, > > I predict that you will go "baroque"... ;-) > > I am just waiting for a NEW 5 level TTY to come out. > Remeber all coding/decoding is mechanical! > Can you design one of those in an FPGA??? ;-) -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca () Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> <3E873573.B8ED2F6D@t-online.de> Organization: Edmonton Community Network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.6] Lines: 24 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 04:58:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.206.2 X-Trace: localhost 1049086708 198.161.206.2 (Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:58:28 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:58:28 MST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!news.uunet.ca!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!newsfeed.grouptelecom.net!localhost!jsavard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133952 Andrew Swallow (am.swallow@eatspam.btinternet.com) wrote: : "Mok-Kong Shen" wrote in message : news:3E873573.B8ED2F6D@t-online.de... : > A question of ignorance: Are there any normally operating : > (as against hobbyists' usage) hardware today employing : > 5-level teletypewriter code? (Decades ago I used paper : > tapes with such coding for writing programs but never : > used them again after switching to punched cards.) : Ten years ago there was such machines in use by the : military. There is very much active use of 5-level code machines even today by many countries, as those whose hobby is monitoring the shortwave utility bands will tell you. I need merely mention the name *Klingenfuss* to note that this is still active. As for the Telex and Teletype communications systems, I was not aware that they had ever gone to the trouble of converting. I know that - more than ten years ago, admittedly - there was even a five-level version of the Texas Instruments 733 electronic data terminal. John Savard ###### From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca () Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> <3PXga.3625$qn.432002@localhost> <3E86B8ED.EE6DB319@ev1.net> <3E87120F.3060300@jetnet.ab.ca> <3E87DA9C.DA4C36D0@ev1.net> Organization: Edmonton Community Network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.6] Lines: 40 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:00:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.206.2 X-Trace: localhost 1049119221 198.161.206.2 (Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:00:21 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:00:21 MST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!news.uunet.ca!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!newsfeed.grouptelecom.net!localhost!jsavard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133953 Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) wrote: : bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca wrote: : > Charles Richmond wrote: : > > ...you forgot "ornate and byzantine"...or perhaps "baroque". I admit that if my claim that it "follows the spirit of CCITT/ITU Recommendation S.2" is to be regarded as having any validity, this "spirit" must perhaps be understood as a wrathful ghost, haunting the world and spreading fear and destruction in its wake... : > > If you attempt to make any money with this five-digit code, : > > I predict that you will go "baroque"... ;-) I would not have made this code a free gift to the world if my intentions were so mercenary! As 5-level code is still being used for telecommunications, while the 8-level world is already joined in harmony by UNICODE and UTF-8, it is my hope to facilitate communications between different countries, and help bring about world peace. (If world peace were, of course, to _depend_ on the widespread adoption of this type of scheme for 5-level communications, we would be doomed...) : > I am just waiting for a NEW 5 level TTY to come out. : > Remeber all coding/decoding is mechanical! Actually, no... there are electronic 5-level terminals, and they had been making them since the late 1970s, so 5-level code has survived into the microelectronic era. : Can you design one of those in an FPGA??? ;-) Not personally, but I don't think the code is so complex that it _requires_ a microprocessor to be decoded. However, if one is going to provide the kind of large character set this code is capable of providing, a microprocessor is probably the best bet. John Savard ###### From: "Andrew Swallow" Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:25:59 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> <3E873573.B8ED2F6D@t-online.de> Reply-To: "Andrew Swallow" NNTP-Posting-Host: host217-40-193-125.in-addr.btopenworld.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sparta.btinternet.com 1049120759 1477 217.40.193.125 (31 Mar 2003 14:25:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:25:59 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1123 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1123 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!nntp.theplanet.net!inewsm1.nntp.theplanet.net!zen.net.uk!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133975 wrote in message news:UVPha.3803$qn.446471@localhost... > Andrew Swallow (am.swallow@eatspam.btinternet.com) wrote: > : "Mok-Kong Shen" wrote in message > : news:3E873573.B8ED2F6D@t-online.de... > > : > A question of ignorance: Are there any normally operating > : > (as against hobbyists' usage) hardware today employing > : > 5-level teletypewriter code? (Decades ago I used paper > : > tapes with such coding for writing programs but never > : > used them again after switching to punched cards.) > > : Ten years ago there was such machines in use by the > : military. > > There is very much active use of 5-level code machines even today by many > countries, as those whose hobby is monitoring the shortwave utility bands > will tell you. > > I need merely mention the name *Klingenfuss* to note that this is still > active. As for the Telex and Teletype communications systems, I was not > aware that they had ever gone to the trouble of converting. I know that - > more than ten years ago, admittedly - there was even a five-level version > of the Texas Instruments 733 electronic data terminal. > Telex was 5 bits. Teletype normally used the 8 bit ASCII code. Andrew Swallow ###### From: "Russ Holsclaw" Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers References: <3E82DD0C.57D91F8E@ieee.orgasm-research.invalid> <3E842634.44DDDEF4@ev1.net> <3E873573.B8ED2F6D@t-online.de> Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Lines: 22 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <_c1ia.30$3e4.54442@news.uswest.net> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:06:17 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.38.216.149 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1049141178 216.38.216.149 (Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:06:18 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:06:18 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:133997 "Mok-Kong Shen" wrote in message news:3E873573.B8ED2F6D@t-online.de... > A question of ignorance: Are there any normally operating > (as against hobbyists' usage) hardware today employing > 5-level teletypewriter code? (Decades ago I used paper > tapes with such coding for writing programs but never > used them again after switching to punched cards.) The system used by the deaf known as "TDD" still uses the classic 5-level "Baudot" code used by Teletype machines. Although most everyone uses all-electronic devices with keyboards and one-line displays, the system was originally established back when a group of ham-radio operators began donating equipment to various deaf people and institutions for use over the telephone lines. AFAIK, they even still use the AFSK modem standard employed by hams for radio-teletype (Mark=2125 Hz, Space= 2975 Hz). The frequencies are the 7th and 9th multiples of 425 Hz, giving a separation of 850 Hz. I still have a "modem" (AKA "terminal unit") for operating on these frequencies, as well as the 170-Hz "narrow-shift" used by hams later. ###### From: Eric Fischer Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Extending 5-level code Date: 7 Apr 2003 02:28:21 GMT Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <3E88BF90.196D86B8@earthlink.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYX5uHSpLiYQt2Bdz7/H4fFEs8vrISAxTGrTwCNs2OK94N01rjHmq+x X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Apr 2003 02:28:21 GMT Originator: eric@ellibrocorto.com (eric fischer) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeeds.sol.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:134686 jchausler wrote: > Andrew Swallow wrote: > > > Telex was 5 bits. Teletype normally used the 8 bit ASCII code. > > As to message services there was both Telex and TWX. > "Teletype" is the name of a company (a merger of Murry > and Kleinschmidt or something close to that in the 20's). > Teletype Corp. made both 5 and 8 level machines. The > 5 level machines came much earlier. I think the first 8 > level machines were in the late 50's. Teletype was originally Morkrum, named for its cofounders Morton and Krum. They were the US distributors for Murray, however. Their first 8-level product was the Model 33, introduced in early 1963. Eric