From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Smallest PDP-10? Date: 23 Sep 2002 05:31:41 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 18 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 170.121.15.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1032784302 9667 127.0.0.1 (23 Sep 2002 12:31:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Sep 2002 12:31:42 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11899 alt.folklore.computers:117563 What's the smallest hardware configuration capable of running PDP-10 software? (Presumably under an emulator, but I'm not ruling out other implementations!) I was playing with mini-ITX machines this past weekend; the motherboard (with on-board network, video, and 2 IDE jacks) is about 6.5 inches (170mm) on each side. For example: http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_mini_itx_spec.jsp?motherboardId=21 Add a flash drive and it runs Linux (and presumably other OS's) very nicely for under $300. I'm not sure how laptops figure into all of this (didn't Mark have KLH10 up and going on his laptop several years back?) Laptops tend to be bigger than 6.5" in at least one dimension, right? :-) Tim. ###### Sender: phr2002-nospam@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Paul Rubin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? References: Date: 23 Sep 2002 05:40:13 -0700 Message-ID: <7x8z1s5176.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Organization: Nightsong/Fort GNOX Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.66.107.17 X-Trace: 23 Sep 2002 05:58:10 -0700, 209.66.107.17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!newsfeed.news2me.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!209.66.107.17 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11896 alt.folklore.computers:117549 shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes: > What's the smallest hardware configuration capable of running PDP-10 > software? (Presumably under an emulator, but I'm not ruling out other > implementations!) I'm sure I could easily run any of the 10 emulators on my Sharp Zaurus handheld with very little porting effort. Info: http://www.sharpusa.com/products/ModelLanding/0,1058,698,00.html http://www.myzaurus.com http://www.zauruszone.com ###### From: Lars Brinkhoff Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: 23 Sep 2002 14:48:35 +0200 Organization: nocrew Lines: 15 Sender: lars@junk.nocrew.org Message-ID: <85sn006fdo.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> References: <7x8z1s5176.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: junk.nocrew.org (213.242.147.30) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1032785417 7335788 213.242.147.30 (16 [140306]) X-Orig-Path: junk.nocrew.org!not-for-mail User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!junk.nocrew.ORG!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11895 alt.folklore.computers:117531 Paul Rubin writes: > shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes: > > What's the smallest hardware configuration capable of running > > PDP-10 software? (Presumably under an emulator, but I'm not > > ruling out other implementations!) > I'm sure I could easily run any of the 10 emulators on my Sharp > Zaurus handheld with very little porting effort. Jacob Nelson did that, and had a page about it here: http://www.jfet.net/ten/ Unfortunately, the web server is down. -- Lars Brinkhoff http://lars.nocrew.org/ Linux, GCC, PDP-10, Brinkhoff Consulting http://www.brinkhoff.se/ HTTP programming ###### Reply-To: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers References: <7x8z1s5176.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <85sn006fdo.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 08:59:39 -0400 Lines: 22 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 Message-ID: <3d8f103d_1@news.iglou.com> X-Trace: news.iglou.com 1032785981 204.250.0.238 (23 Sep 2002 08:59:41 -0400) X-Authenticated-User: dougq X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!uunet!sea.uu.net!ash.uu.net!news.iglou.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11894 alt.folklore.computers:117491 "Lars Brinkhoff" wrote in message = news:85sn006fdo.fsf@junk.nocrew.org... > Paul Rubin writes: > > shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes: > > > What's the smallest hardware configuration capable of running > > > PDP-10 software? (Presumably under an emulator, but I'm not > > > ruling out other implementations!) > > I'm sure I could easily run any of the 10 emulators on my Sharp > > Zaurus handheld with very little porting effort. >=20 > Jacob Nelson did that, and had a page about it here: > http://www.jfet.net/ten/ > Unfortunately, the web server is down. I'll take these down if Jacob asks, but until then: http://members.iglou.com/dougq/dec/systat2.jpg http://members.iglou.com/dougq/dec/Systat-20_screen.jpg -dq ###### Sender: phr2002-nospam@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Paul Rubin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? References: Date: 23 Sep 2002 06:18:01 -0700 Message-ID: <7xd6r4x2t2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Organization: Nightsong/Fort GNOX Lines: 19 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.66.107.17 X-Trace: 23 Sep 2002 06:35:59 -0700, 209.66.107.17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!209.66.107.17 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11897 alt.folklore.computers:117553 shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes: > I was playing with mini-ITX machines this past weekend; the motherboard > (with on-board network, video, and 2 IDE jacks) is about 6.5 inches (170mm) > on each side. For example: > > http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_mini_itx_spec.jsp?motherboardId=21 > > Add a flash drive and it runs Linux (and presumably other OS's) very nicely > for under $300. I looked at that site--nice board, and I'm impressed that it can run without a fan. There were some links to cases for it though, and the smallest was pizza-box style, about 1 foot square, with an external power supply (12 volt 50 watt). I don't know if the external power supply has a fan. I'm thinking I might like to put a very quiet laptop disk inside, and use it as an audio jukebox. When you say "under $300" do you include a suitable small case and P/S? Where do you get that from? ###### From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: 23 Sep 2002 13:43:20 GMT Organization: TSS Inc. Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: citadel.in.taronga.com X-Trace: citadel.in.taronga.com 1032788600 88436 10.0.0.43 (23 Sep 2002 13:43:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@taronga.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Sep 2002 13:43:20 GMT X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!news.kjsl.com!news.usenet2.org!news-proxy.baileynm.com!citadel.in.taronga.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11898 alt.folklore.computers:117557 In article , Tim Shoppa wrote: >What's the smallest hardware configuration capable of running PDP-10 >software? Either a PDA or a single-board computer. > http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_mini_itx_spec.jsp?motherboardId=21 I've used SBCs capable of booting UNIX small enough to fit on top of a 3.5" hard disk, but I'm sure there's smaller ones now. Oh, look: http://www.compulab.co.il/686core.htm IBM has a wristwatch that runs Linux: http://www.research.ibm.com/WearableComputing/factsheet.html -- Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC. 29.6852N 95.5770W WWFD? "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" -- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans) ###### From: "Zane H. Healy" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: 23 Sep 2002 21:08:44 GMT Organization: Aracnet Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-556.newsdawg.com User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.19 (i686)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!209.98.3.206!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11900 alt.folklore.computers:117574 In alt.sys.pdp10 Mark Crispin wrote: > On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Tim Shoppa wrote: >> What's the smallest hardware configuration capable of running PDP-10 >> software? > As other people have pointed out, klh10 has been run on a Sharp Zaurus. My smallest is a i810 board with a 500Mhz Celeron running simh on SUSE Linux. It is a little larger than the board Tim is talking about. It sits on a wooden shelf behind my Sparc 20 with a Powersuppy and HD plugged in (no case). > I think that what is more interesting is price/performance. I think that > lingling.panda.com, built for $700 of commodity hardware and benchmarked > at 16 times a KL10 (10 times an XKL-1) is the current leader. I'm sure > that if I built Lingling today, I would get an even faster system (I used > an Athlon 1700). Nevertheless, Lingling is impressive. It builds the > TOPS-20 monitor from sources in 12.5 minutes! Better watch it, I might take this as a challenge :^) For the price of a Motherboard and some RAM I can put together a nice 2.8-2.9Ghz Pentium IV. My question is, how are you doing the actual benchmarking? My current system for KLH10 is a 1Ghz Pentium III, and I'd like to know how well it performs. Zane ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: Tue, 24 Sep 02 08:57:46 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZl4HvJdDM3MrOcus7IMzaDunYE/3SyiWBstjGyob8ghRe2L/V21vzT X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Sep 2002 10:12:58 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-xfer.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!grr!nntp.abs.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!208-59-181-246 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11902 alt.folklore.computers:117639 In article , Mark Crispin wrote: >On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Tim Shoppa wrote: >> What's the smallest hardware configuration capable of running PDP-10 >> software? > >As other people have pointed out, klh10 has been run on a Sharp Zaurus. > >I think that there is such a thing as too small. I can't imagine doing >useful PDP-10 work on a Zaurus, while I have done so on a Sony VAIO >Picturebook. 5 times a KL10, 3 times an XKL-1. > >I think that what is more interesting is price/performance. I think that >lingling.panda.com, built for $700 of commodity hardware and benchmarked >at 16 times a KL10 (10 times an XKL-1) is the current leader. I'm sure >that if I built Lingling today, I would get an even faster system (I used >an Athlon 1700). Nevertheless, Lingling is impressive. It builds the >TOPS-20 monitor from sources in 12.5 minutes! Whoa! When I think of the development work that could have been done instead of waiting for builds to finish. Man! I could have packaged the -10 in a day rather than a week. On the other hand, I could have made a lot more oopses/week. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Sender: phr2002-nospam@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Paul Rubin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? References: Date: 23 Sep 2002 17:45:28 -0700 Message-ID: <7xheggz047.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Organization: Nightsong/Fort GNOX Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.66.107.17 X-Trace: 23 Sep 2002 18:03:32 -0700, 209.66.107.17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!209.66.107.17 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11904 alt.folklore.computers:117674 Mark Crispin writes: > As other people have pointed out, klh10 has been run on a Sharp Zaurus. > > I think that there is such a thing as too small. I can't imagine doing > useful PDP-10 work on a Zaurus, while I have done so on a Sony VAIO > Picturebook. 5 times a KL10, 3 times an XKL-1. The Zaurus has a 200 mhz StrongARM so it probably runs KLH10 at around the same speed a KL10. The keyboard and screen aren't really part of the KLH10 instance any more than the console TTY is part of a KL10. It's just a peripheral. Put a CF ethernet card into the Zaurus and connect it to a network, and you've got a useable KLH10 system that you can telnet to. ###### From: "glen herrmannsfeldt" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers References: Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Lines: 29 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.228.58.87 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc03 1032847062 12.228.58.87 (Tue, 24 Sep 2002 05:57:42 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 05:57:42 GMT Organization: AT&T Broadband Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 05:57:42 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!prairie.attcanada.net!newsfeed.attcanada.net!204.127.161.4!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!sccrnsc03.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11901 alt.folklore.computers:117598 "Peter da Silva" wrote in message news:amn5po$2mbk$1@citadel.in.taronga.com... > In article , > Tim Shoppa wrote: > >What's the smallest hardware configuration capable of running PDP-10 > >software? > > Either a PDA or a single-board computer. > > > http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_mini_itx_spec.jsp?motherboardId=21 > > I've used SBCs capable of booting UNIX small enough to fit on top of a > 3.5" hard disk, but I'm sure there's smaller ones now. Oh, look: > > http://www.compulab.co.il/686core.htm > > IBM has a wristwatch that runs Linux: > > http://www.research.ibm.com/WearableComputing/factsheet.html 8MB DRAM, 16MB Flash, presumably the OS can go in Flash leaving most of the DRAM available for the user. Maybe the PDP10 emulator can fit in Flash, too. How much RAM do you need to boot TOPS-10? -- glen ###### From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: 24 Sep 2002 04:55:04 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 41 Message-ID: References: <7xd6r4x2t2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 170.121.15.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1032868504 27626 127.0.0.1 (24 Sep 2002 11:55:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Sep 2002 11:55:04 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11907 alt.folklore.computers:117683 Paul Rubin wrote in message news:<7xd6r4x2t2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>... > shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes: > > I was playing with mini-ITX machines this past weekend; the motherboard > > (with on-board network, video, and 2 IDE jacks) is about 6.5 inches (170mm) > > on each side. For example: > > > > http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_mini_itx_spec.jsp?motherboardId=21 > > > > Add a flash drive and it runs Linux (and presumably other OS's) very nicely > > for under $300. > > I looked at that site--nice board, and I'm impressed that it can run > without a fan. There were some links to cases for it though, and the > smallest was pizza-box style, about 1 foot square, with an external > power supply (12 volt 50 watt). I don't know if the external power > supply has a fan. No, it's just a glorified wall wart. > I'm thinking I might like to put a very quiet > laptop disk inside, and use it as an audio jukebox. With a config like that you can probably unplug the case fan. > When you say "under $300" do you include a suitable small case and P/S? > Where do you get that from? For $195, a case, power supply, MB (w net and video), 800 MHz CPU: http://www.caseoutlet.com/NWPc/2677/itx2677.html For less money, a bigger case (one actually large enough to hold a normal-sized CD drive!): http://www.servercase.com/MiniITX.html Note that the ITX2677 is a very nicely stackable metal box, ideal for that cluster you always wanted :-). (Reminds me of an HW-8, if you're familiar with Heathkit radios. Maybe I should paint mine two-tone green?) Tim. ###### Sender: phr2002-nospam@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Paul Rubin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? References: <7xd6r4x2t2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Date: 24 Sep 2002 06:55:26 -0700 Message-ID: <7x7khbfq5t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Organization: Nightsong/Fort GNOX Lines: 17 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.66.107.17 X-Trace: 24 Sep 2002 07:13:36 -0700, 209.66.107.17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!209.66.107.17 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11905 alt.folklore.computers:117676 shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes: > > I'm thinking I might like to put a very quiet > > laptop disk inside, and use it as an audio jukebox. > > With a config like that you can probably unplug the case fan. Case fan? Oh. Ugh. > > When you say "under $300" do you include a suitable small case and P/S? > > Where do you get that from? > > For $195, a case, power supply, MB (w net and video), 800 MHz CPU: > > http://www.caseoutlet.com/NWPc/2677/itx2677.html I think I saw that site and it mentioned it could run fanless. I sure wouldn't want it any other way. ###### From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: 25 Sep 2002 07:31:58 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <7xd6r4x2t2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7x7khbfq5t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 170.121.15.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1032964318 22098 127.0.0.1 (25 Sep 2002 14:31:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Sep 2002 14:31:58 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11915 alt.folklore.computers:117749 Paul Rubin wrote in message news:<7x7khbfq5t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>... > shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes: > > For $195, a case, power supply, MB (w net and video), 800 MHz CPU: > > > > http://www.caseoutlet.com/NWPc/2677/itx2677.html > > I think I saw that site and it mentioned it could run fanless. > I sure wouldn't want it any other way. The word "fanless" appears in the description but it comes with a fan. Having run one in various configurations, I can assure you that with a small low-power drive you do not need the case fan. Tim. ###### Sender: phr2002-nospam@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Paul Rubin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? References: <7xd6r4x2t2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7x7khbfq5t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Date: 25 Sep 2002 07:42:41 -0700 Message-ID: <7xy99qt9jy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Organization: Nightsong/Fort GNOX Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.66.107.17 X-Trace: 25 Sep 2002 08:01:01 -0700, 209.66.107.17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsmaster-01.atnet.at!atnet.at!newsrouter.chello.at!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!209.66.107.17 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11913 alt.folklore.computers:117746 shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes: > The word "fanless" appears in the description but it comes with a fan. > Having run one in various configurations, I can assure you that with a > small low-power drive you do not need the case fan. Hmm, do you think a typical 5400 rpm 3.5" ATA drive would need a fan? The Maxtor spec I'm looking at indicates 6-7 watts of power consumption when active. Thanks ###### From: Billy Joe Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:27:16 -0400 Organization: Very good. Message-ID: Reply-To: Anyone.interested References: <7xd6r4x2t2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7x7khbfq5t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7xy99qt9jy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.570 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 12 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!Barn.!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11916 alt.folklore.computers:117753 Paul Rubin seems to have said: >shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes: >> The word "fanless" appears in the description but it comes with a fan. >> Having run one in various configurations, I can assure you that with a >> small low-power drive you do not need the case fan. > >Hmm, do you think a typical 5400 rpm 3.5" ATA drive would need a fan? >The Maxtor spec I'm looking at indicates 6-7 watts of power >consumption when active. Thanks Think ATA laptop disk. Even less power, and much less space. ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:58:40 +0100 Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <7xd6r4x2t2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7x7khbfq5t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7xy99qt9jy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-3288.aardvark.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news7.svr.pol.co.uk 1032969153 30240 217.134.12.216 (25 Sep 2002 15:52:33 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Sep 2002 15:52:33 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11910 alt.folklore.computers:117732 Think cost & capacity. :) I've been looking at a C3 based system for a while now... Tempted to take the plunge I must admit but I'm still wavering. Prices in the UK are daylight robbery right now. www.nexcom.com have some nifty products but I haven't found a local retail source yet. :/ I like the idea of their integrated CompactFlash slot... Slap an OpenBSD root on there and you have a pretty tidy little proxy & firewall box. Cheers, Rupert ###### From: Billy Joe Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:44:03 -0400 Organization: Very good. Message-ID: Reply-To: Anyone.interested References: <7xd6r4x2t2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7x7khbfq5t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7xy99qt9jy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.570 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 9 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!Barn.!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11914 alt.folklore.computers:117748 Rupert Pigott seems to have said: >Think cost & capacity. :) Cost is free, as they are sitting on my desk. Capacity is 6 GIG. Think that is too small? Remember, the Black Packs were only RM03s! ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 20:01:07 +0100 Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <7xd6r4x2t2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7x7khbfq5t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7xy99qt9jy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-3551.antelope.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 1032980101 25508 217.134.29.223 (25 Sep 2002 18:55:01 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Sep 2002 18:55:01 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!eusc.inter.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11918 alt.folklore.computers:117778 "Billy Joe" wrote in message news:tbt3pu0to4vpcf93g54s9ah743360s2jd3@4ax.com... > Rupert Pigott seems to have said: > > >Think cost & capacity. :) > > Cost is free, as they are sitting on my desk. > > Capacity is 6 GIG. Think that is too small? It would be too small to put all my CDs into MP3 form. :) > Remember, the Black Packs were only RM03s! Aww bless em. :) Cheers, Rupert ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: Thu, 26 Sep 02 08:42:00 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <7xd6r4x2t2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7x7khbfq5t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7xy99qt9jy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZX9ixLFpF/RhznLj+6cmDhtKTJ/RbhTiwZvR0RrrDfmtXomqiYOx3D X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Sep 2002 09:57:33 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hub.kaist.ac.kr!nntp.kreonet.re.kr!newsfeed.gol.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!208-59-181-44 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11935 alt.folklore.computers:117879 In article , Billy Joe wrote: >Rupert Pigott seems to have said: > >>Think cost & capacity. :) > >Cost is free, as they are sitting on my desk. > >Capacity is 6 GIG. Think that is too small? > >Remember, the Black Packs were only RM03s! Nope. Wrong size. Some of them did get to be RA8n size in the last few years. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: 26 Sep 2002 05:46:03 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <7xd6r4x2t2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7x7khbfq5t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7xy99qt9jy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 170.121.15.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1033044363 2794 127.0.0.1 (26 Sep 2002 12:46:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Sep 2002 12:46:03 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11964 alt.folklore.computers:117967 "Rupert Pigott" wrote in message news:... > Think cost & capacity. :) > > I've been looking at a C3 based system for a while > now... Tempted to take the plunge I must admit but > I'm still wavering. Prices in the UK are daylight > robbery right now. Look at http://www.mini-itx.com/ ; it's UK-based and the prices it links to look reasonable to me (e.g. a C3 800 MHz motherboard with video and ethernet along with a case and PS is (UK Pounds) 125 which is US$194.67, a whole 33 cents cheaper than what I paid for mine :-) Tim. ###### From: cb@df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: 26 Sep 2002 13:20:56 GMT Organization: The Computer Society at Lund University and Lund Institute of Technology Lines: 62 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: igloo.df.lth.se NNTP-Posting-User: cb X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Originator: cb@df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!luth.se!news.lth.se!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11923 alt.folklore.computers:117804 In article , Tim Shoppa wrote: >"Rupert Pigott" wrote in >message news:... >> Think cost & capacity. :) >> >> I've been looking at a C3 based system for a while >> now... Tempted to take the plunge I must admit but >> I'm still wavering. Prices in the UK are daylight >> robbery right now. > >Look at http://www.mini-itx.com/ ; it's UK-based and the >prices it links to look reasonable to me (e.g. a C3 800 MHz >motherboard with video and ethernet along with a case and PS is >(UK Pounds) 125 which is US$194.67, a whole 33 cents cheaper than >what I paid for mine :-) I just purchased a VIA EPIA5000 motherboard with 533MHz Eden CPU, and a Chyang Fun 'MiniCube' case, which came to a total of UK£164.50 including VAT and delivery, from . Good price, good service (the people at Ultim8PC have been very helpful in my quest for the 'right' MB/case combo), and I'll gladly recommend them. The exact details of the system I'll be putting together tonight: From : VIA EPIA5000 M/B inc. EDEN 533MHz CPU £ 65.00 CF-7989 Mini-iTX case £ 67.00 Shipping £ 8.00 VAT £ 24.50 (Sub)Total £164.50 From : Seagate U6 80.0GB UDMA100 £ 61.00 Lite-ON CD-RW 40r 32w 12rw £ 35.00 512MB 168DIMM PC133 NP CL3 £ 43.00 Slim Keyboard PS/2 £ 3.50 2 Button Mouse PS/2 £ 1.50 Order Handling Charge £ 4.00 VAT £ 25.90 (Sub)Total £173.90 Overall cost: Case & Motherboard: £164.50 Case filling: £173.90 Total £338.40 There's no monitor included in the above, because the motherboard includes a TV/-out connector; and as I intend to use this computer as a server which need hardly ever be connected to a monitor, as it will be administered remotely via VNC, I'll just connect it to my TV when I need to have actual console access. >Tim. Best wishes, // Christian Brunschen ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:12:08 +0100 Lines: 69 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.134.56.227 X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 1033052769 26103 217.134.56.227 (26 Sep 2002 15:06:09 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Sep 2002 15:06:09 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11943 alt.folklore.computers:117910 "Christian Brunschen" wrote in message news:amv1jo$71t$1@news.lth.se... > In article , > Tim Shoppa wrote: > >"Rupert Pigott" wrote in > >message news:... > >> Think cost & capacity. :) > >> > >> I've been looking at a C3 based system for a while > >> now... Tempted to take the plunge I must admit but > >> I'm still wavering. Prices in the UK are daylight > >> robbery right now. > > > >Look at http://www.mini-itx.com/ ; it's UK-based and the > >prices it links to look reasonable to me (e.g. a C3 800 MHz > >motherboard with video and ethernet along with a case and PS is > >(UK Pounds) 125 which is US$194.67, a whole 33 cents cheaper than > >what I paid for mine :-) > > I just purchased a VIA EPIA5000 motherboard with 533MHz Eden CPU, and a > Chyang Fun 'MiniCube' case, which came to a total of UK£164.50 including > VAT and delivery, from . > > Good price, good service (the people at Ultim8PC have been very helpful in > my quest for the 'right' MB/case combo), and I'll gladly recommend them. > > The exact details of the system I'll be putting together tonight: > > From : > > VIA EPIA5000 M/B inc. EDEN 533MHz CPU £ 65.00 > CF-7989 Mini-iTX case £ 67.00 > Shipping £ 8.00 > VAT £ 24.50 > (Sub)Total £164.50 > > From : > > Seagate U6 80.0GB UDMA100 £ 61.00 > Lite-ON CD-RW 40r 32w 12rw £ 35.00 > 512MB 168DIMM PC133 NP CL3 £ 43.00 > Slim Keyboard PS/2 £ 3.50 > 2 Button Mouse PS/2 £ 1.50 > Order Handling Charge £ 4.00 > VAT £ 25.90 > (Sub)Total £173.90 > > Overall cost: > > Case & Motherboard: £164.50 > Case filling: £173.90 > Total £338.40 > > There's no monitor included in the above, because the motherboard includes > a TV/-out connector; and as I intend to use this computer as a server > which need hardly ever be connected to a monitor, as it will be > administered remotely via VNC, I'll just connect it to my TV when I need > to have actual console access. Thanks ! :) Missed those places, but to be honest I should have said I was looking a while back... I guess prices are a bit more sane now. :) Cheers, Rupert ###### From: J. Clarke Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 16:40:00 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <7xd6r4x2t2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7x7khbfq5t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7xy99qt9jy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <8gt3pugq9rhi5l4en4ul73jknmu3luqhvt@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-177.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11941 alt.folklore.computers:117905 In article <8gt3pugq9rhi5l4en4ul73jknmu3luqhvt@4ax.com>, Something@you.dont.know says... > Paul Rubin seems to have said: > > >shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes: > >> The word "fanless" appears in the description but it comes with a fan. > >> Having run one in various configurations, I can assure you that with a > >> small low-power drive you do not need the case fan. > > > >Hmm, do you think a typical 5400 rpm 3.5" ATA drive would need a fan? > >The Maxtor spec I'm looking at indicates 6-7 watts of power > >consumption when active. Thanks > > The disks I have (Maxtor 5T040H4) are the same power (6 to 7 watts), > but they do run hot. I think you would need a fan if the disks you > have ran the same. Just a comment but TiVO uses drives that are selected for low power consumption and silent operation I understand. Nonetheless when the fan in mine died it got pretty danged hot with just one drive. The enclosure matters. If it's a big open heavy-gage aluminum case then it can probably cool just about any current production drive by conduction. If it's tight and with poor airflow additional cooling will likely be required. In between there is a transition point, with its exact location depending on both the enclosure and the drive. It's also possible to apply passive cooling via heat sinks, but that has to be done very carefully as often it is the chips and not the capsule that require cooling. -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### Sender: phr2002-nospam@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Paul Rubin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? References: <7xd6r4x2t2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7x7khbfq5t.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7xy99qt9jy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <8gt3pugq9rhi5l4en4ul73jknmu3luqhvt@4ax.com> Date: 26 Sep 2002 14:35:17 -0700 Message-ID: <7x1y7gxwmi.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Organization: Nightsong/Fort GNOX Lines: 35 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.66.107.17 X-Trace: 26 Sep 2002 14:53:53 -0700, 209.66.107.17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!209.66.107.17 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11955 alt.folklore.computers:117952 J. Clarke writes: > Just a comment but TiVO uses drives that are selected for low power > consumption and silent operation I understand. Nonetheless when the fan > in mine died it got pretty danged hot with just one drive. > > The enclosure matters. If it's a big open heavy-gage aluminum case then > it can probably cool just about any current production drive by > conduction. If it's tight and with poor airflow additional cooling will > likely be required. In between there is a transition point, with its > exact location depending on both the enclosure and the drive. Hmm, I'd want it set up to maximally muffle the sound of the HD, and that probably means lousy airflow. I think I'm relegated to using a laptop drive in that enclosure, if I don't want to use the case fan. Actually, for the audio jukebox application, there's another approach, which is use a 3.5" drive but actually run the system from a ram disk. The 3.5" drive would spin up at boot time and initialize the ram disk, which would then switch to a config that had the 3.5" unmounted and spun down. When you try to play an album from the jukebox, the software would automount the HD and copy the album (typically an Ogg Vorbis file of 80 MB or so) into RAM, then unmount and spin down the HD again. The HD would only spin a few percent of the time and shouldn't get warm. If you surf around a lot from album to album, the HD would run more and might get warm, but perhaps temperature sensors could turn on the case fan when that happens. > It's also possible to apply passive cooling via heat sinks, but that has > to be done very carefully as often it is the chips and not the capsule > that require cooling. Given that they went out of their way to make it a small enclosure, it's most useful in space-impaired installations, which means there's probably other equipment around or on top of it. Again not so great for heat removal. ###### From: Parag Patel Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 21:09:00 -0700 Organization: CodeGen, Inc. Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-089.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Image-URL: http://www.codegen.com/images/CG-logo-only.gif X-URL: http://www.codegen.com X-Face: =O'Kj74icvU|oS*<7gS/8'\Pbpm}okVj*@UC!IgkmZQAO!W[|iBiMs*|)n*`X ]pW%m>Oz_mK^Gdazsr.Z0/JsFS1uF8gBVIoChGwOy{EK=<6g?aHE`[\S]C]T0Wm Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!dca6-feed2.news.algx.net!sfo2-feed1.news.algx.net!allegiance!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!parag Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11954 alt.folklore.computers:117950 I picked up a CerfCube (with Linux) a while back when they were marked down. It's a small cube, no fan, with ethernet, serial, StrongARM, 32Mb RAM, 16Mb flash, type I/II Compact Flash slot, and some general I/O pins. They still seem to be available and I've heard that a new version with XScale are due out soon. Unfortunately no longer cheap. Still, a completely fanless device with no moving parts and a removable disk-pack (Compact Flash) should make a nice '10 emulator. I still intend to turn mine into a '10 someday. (It can take an IBM 1Gb Microdrive but that would add moving parts and who needs those...) -- -- Parag Patel "Knowledge Brings Fear" -- Martian University (Futurama) ###### From: shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Smallest PDP-10? Date: 27 Sep 2002 07:20:51 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 170.121.15.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1033136451 25074 127.0.0.1 (27 Sep 2002 14:20:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Sep 2002 14:20:51 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11969 alt.folklore.computers:117978 Parag Patel wrote in message news:... > I picked up a CerfCube (with Linux) a while back when they were marked > down. It's a small cube, no fan, with ethernet, serial, StrongARM, 32Mb > RAM, 16Mb flash, type I/II Compact Flash slot, and some general I/O pins. > > They still seem to be available and I've > heard that a new version with XScale are due out soon. Unfortunately no > longer cheap. > > Still, a completely fanless device with no moving parts and a removable > disk-pack (Compact Flash) should make a nice '10 emulator. Certainly some embedded-type boards should be capable of this; I know of PC-104 stuff that's capable, but I do not know of anyone who has run old-iron emulators on them. It would be cute to hide a Compact Flash module in the spindle of a RP06 pack and somehow put a socket in the spindle coupler of an externally real RP06 drive - get rid of those troublesome heads :-) Of course, it's pointless seeing as how the whole PDP-10 emulator would fit in a fraction of the volume of a pack! Tim.