Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? From: Lucas Tam Organization: None of Your Business!!! Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 X-Face: #gFwhH/LPM9"eq Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:23:03 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.228.39.72 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uni2.dk X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1027402267 130.228.39.72 (Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:31:07 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:31:07 MET DST Organization: UNI2 Internet Kunde Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112663 "Lucas Tam" skrev i en meddelelse news:Xns9253F00C93B5Enntprogerscom@140.99.99.130... > I heard from a colleague at work that Hard Drive casings are so thick > because years ago, someone was killed when a hard drive failed. Well, I can _imagine_ it could be true when we talk of 2311 or 2314 packs. These packs were inserted into the drive (the word "downloaded" comes to mind), and the top (2311) resp front (2314) were plastic or glass, IIRC. Maybe even the 3330 could be a candidate, but the used sealed cartridges. Correct me if I am wrong, I havnt seen these models for quite some years Not that it matters, but does anyone remember the RPM of the 2311 ? Nico ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:04:43 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 26 Message-ID: <20020723080443.6e386e32.steveo@eircom.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: i1257.vwr.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 1027443546 84044 194.134.212.238 (23 Jul 2002 16:59:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:59:06 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.0 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.6) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112673 On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:33:02 GMT Lucas Tam wrote: LT> I heard from a colleague at work that Hard Drive casings are so thick LT> because years ago, someone was killed when a hard drive failed. LT> Apparently, the spinning platters of the hard drive shattered into LT> many pieces and flew out of the hard drive's then thin casing like LT> pieces of shrapnel. The first time I ever saw a 5 platter disc pack drive close up I was shown the way the lid could be lifted while the disc was spinning, I started to lean over it for a closer look and was warned not to in case a falling hair caused a crash which might shatter the disc as the arm carrying the head bounced into the platters. The operator showing me all this went into graphic detail about chunks of metal flying through the casing and us. I don't think it was a likely scenario, but it didn't seem to be an impossible one either - if the platters did shatter it would make a terrible mess. -- C:>WIN | Directable Mirrors The computer obeys and wins. |A Better Way To Focus The Sun You lose and Bill collects. | licenses available - see: | http://www.sohara.org/ ###### From: Pascal Bourguignon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 23 Jul 2002 14:23:21 +0200 Organization: informatimago.com Lines: 26 Message-ID: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: thalassa.informatimago.com (212.87.205.57) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1027427003 30966334 212.87.205.57 (16 [41911]) X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!thalassa.informatimago.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112655 "Nico de Jong" writes: > "Lucas Tam" skrev i en meddelelse > news:Xns9253F00C93B5Enntprogerscom@140.99.99.130... > > I heard from a colleague at work that Hard Drive casings are so thick > > because years ago, someone was killed when a hard drive failed. > > Well, I can _imagine_ it could be true when we talk of 2311 or 2314 packs. > These packs were inserted into the drive (the word "downloaded" comes to > mind), and the top (2311) resp front (2314) were plastic or glass, IIRC. > Maybe even the 3330 could be a candidate, but the used sealed cartridges. > Correct me if I am wrong, I havnt seen these models for quite some years > > Not that it matters, but does anyone remember the RPM of the 2311 ? > > Nico A couple of years ago, I read on the web that Microsoft issued a CD-ROM that was deffective and did not support the latest 52x CD-ROM drives. Hopefully, shrapnel of plastic is less lethal than shrapnel of iron... -- __Pascal_Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ###### From: ignatios@tarski.cs.uni-bonn.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 23 Jul 2002 13:14:31 GMT Organization: RHRZ - University of Bonn (Germany) Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tarski.cs.uni-bonn.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de 1027430071 19492 131.220.4.200 (23 Jul 2002 13:14:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jul 2002 13:14:31 GMT X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112682 In article <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com>, Pascal Bourguignon writes: > A couple of years ago, I read on the web that Microsoft issued a > CD-ROM that was deffective and did not support the latest 52x CD-ROM > drives. Hopefully, shrapnel of plastic is less lethal than shrapnel > of iron... worse, because you can't see the the pieces on xray photographs. -is ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:42:03 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-129-152.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: knossos.btinternet.com 1027446123 3294 213.1.129.152 (23 Jul 2002 17:42:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:42:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!central.cox.net!cox.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112679 "Pascal Bourguignon" wrote in message news:87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com... > "Nico de Jong" writes: > > > "Lucas Tam" skrev i en meddelelse > > news:Xns9253F00C93B5Enntprogerscom@140.99.99.130... > > > I heard from a colleague at work that Hard Drive casings are so thick > > > because years ago, someone was killed when a hard drive failed. > > > > Well, I can _imagine_ it could be true when we talk of 2311 or 2314 packs. > > These packs were inserted into the drive (the word "downloaded" comes to > > mind), and the top (2311) resp front (2314) were plastic or glass, IIRC. > > Maybe even the 3330 could be a candidate, but the used sealed cartridges. > > Correct me if I am wrong, I havnt seen these models for quite some years > > > > Not that it matters, but does anyone remember the RPM of the 2311 ? > > > > Nico > > A couple of years ago, I read on the web that Microsoft issued a > CD-ROM that was deffective and did not support the latest 52x CD-ROM > drives. Hopefully, shrapnel of plastic is less lethal than shrapnel > of iron... Talking of which I ******* hate anything > 16x CD-ROM drive because they take SO DAMN LONG to spin up and they constantly change speeds in operation because they can rarely read the data at that speed any way. What a total and utter waste of time & money, STOP BEING morons please customers, insist on CD-ROMs which work properly and within the spec of the media. Cheers, Rupert ###### Sender: Sven Mascheck Message-ID: <3d3da6fd@news.uni-ulm.de> From: Sven Mascheck Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: User-Agent: tin-1.5.11-mod ("Elizium") (UNIX) (SunOS/5.9) NNTP-Posting-Host: wega.rz.uni-ulm.de Date: 23 Jul 2002 20:57:01 +0200 X-Trace: news.uni-ulm.de 1027450621 wega.rz.uni-ulm.de (23 Jul 2002 20:57:01 +0200) Lines: 26 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.f.de.plusline.net!news.ccowzb.de!news.dtag.de!news.online.de!schlund.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-ulm.de!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112660 Lucas Tam wrote: > [...] years ago, someone was killed when a hard drive failed. > Apparently, the spinning platters of the hard drive shattered > into many pieces [...] > It sounds like an urban legend... however, he insists it's true. (typical for an urban legend...) The following comes to mind as well: , Tim Bessie in <32@unisoft.UUCP> in net.rumor on 14-03-85, "Re: Computer Horror Stories (Emergency Stop)" | The system they were using had recently been converted to using a new | type of coated fiberglass disk, to replace the old, heavy metal-platter | kind. [...] One late evening, a couple | of the operators were sitting around being bored, and decided to see what | would happen when they pulled 'Emergency Stop.' Immediately after pulling | it, they heard a strange sound in the disk cabinet. Looking over, they | saw an arm emerge from the side of the cabinet, on either side of a platter, | and CLAMP down on the platter. Apparently, this wasn't made for use with | fiberglass platters. | They were picking splinters out of the walls for days. ###### Lines: 70 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: garyg4430@aol.com (GaryG4430) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 23 Jul 2002 20:31:26 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Message-ID: <20020723163126.03906.00000447@mb-cu.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112704 >Apparently, the spinning platters of the hard drive shattered into many >pieces and flew out of the hard drive's then thin casing like pieces of >shrapnel. > >Is this true? (delurking) Greetings: Yup. Set the wayback machine to the early eighties. Place, the Byte Shop, Beaverton Oregon. I was the merchandise manager. Next door was the repair/tech center. (NW Tech Support) Tech comes in and says: "Have you heard about the HD-18 blowing up?" Nooo... Says I, how did that happen? The HD-18 was an 18 Mbyte, 18 inch HD made by North*Star for the N* Horizon S-100 micro. One of the first available HDs for the S-100 machines. Short version: Customer on service contract calls in, system down. Tech shows up, goes into the far office where the system is sitting on top of a cabinet about chest high. Tech stops, and looks at the line of shrapnel scares as HD hight all around the office. Tech said it looked like a long burst from an Uzi all around the room. Tech calls the shop and tells the manager what's happened. Manager calls N*. Manager then calls Store Owners and Lawyers. Post mortem: The HD-18 had a big, honking, variable speed motor, the speed of which was controlled by using the sector wheel as a tachometer. The sector wheel was, for some bizare reason, OUTSIDE THE LEXAN BUBBLE! It apparently got dirty and the speed control, not seeing all the sectors, signalled full speed. How fast did it get? Fast enough. All HD-18 under service agreements were 'recalled' as soon as we could find a suitable replacement. A bit later I went to work for a systems house that had used the HD-18 also. We got rid of those, too. Thanks for listening, Gary G. (relurk) -- Gary Grossoehme - GaryG4430 "at" aol "dot" com Oregon Electronics - 503-239-5293 935 NE Couch St. - Computer Cable Specialists Portland, Oregon - Member: AfterBurner Fan Club. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 23 Jul 02 14:58:15 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 33 Message-ID: <1334.969T757T8983786@kltpzyxm.invalid> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-152.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!newsfeed.news2me.com!dfw3-feed1.news.algx.net!sfo2-feed1.news.algx.net!allegiance!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112740 In article nico@farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) writes: >"Lucas Tam" skrev i en meddelelse >news:Xns9253F00C93B5Enntprogerscom@140.99.99.130... > >> I heard from a colleague at work that Hard Drive casings are so thick >> because years ago, someone was killed when a hard drive failed. > >Well, I can _imagine_ it could be true when we talk of 2311 or 2314 >packs. These packs were inserted into the drive (the word "downloaded" >comes to mind), and the top (2311) resp front (2314) were plastic or >glass, IIRC. Maybe even the 3330 could be a candidate, but the used >sealed cartridges. Correct me if I am wrong, I havnt seen these models >for quite some years The 3330 was still just a disk pack, like the 2311/14. You're probably thinking of the 3340. >Not that it matters, but does anyone remember the RPM of the 2311 ? The 2311 and 2314 ran at 2400 rpm, the 3330 at 3600 rpm. One day I found a large strobe sitting in the shop I was working in at the time. I think the CEs were using it for speed checks or something. It was fun to point it at a spinning disk pack and freeze the label so I could read it. -- cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) I'm really at moc.subyks if you read it the right way. Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 23 Jul 02 15:00:15 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 20 Message-ID: <685.969T782T9004287@kltpzyxm.invalid> References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-153.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!newsfeed.news2me.com!dfw3-feed1.news.algx.net!sfo2-feed1.news.algx.net!allegiance!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112738 In article <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> too.much.spam@example.com (Pascal Bourguignon) writes: >A couple of years ago, I read on the web that Microsoft issued a >CD-ROM that was deffective and did not support the latest 52x CD-ROM >drives. Why does that not surprise me...? >Hopefully, shrapnel of plastic is less lethal than shrapnel of iron... Actually, most disk platters were made of aluminum. But I wouldn't want to be around when the fragments started flying, no matter what they're made of. -- cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) I'm really at moc.subyks if you read it the right way. Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. ###### Message-ID: <3D3DFA07.6998D77A@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.237.69.162 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net 1027464791 12.237.69.162 (Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:53:11 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:53:11 GMT Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:53:11 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!204.127.161.2.MISMATCH!wn2feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112763 Rupert Pigott wrote: > > [snip...] [snipo...] [snip...] > > Talking of which I ******* hate anything > 16x CD-ROM drive because > they take SO DAMN LONG to spin up and they constantly change speeds > in operation because they can rarely read the data at that speed > any way. What a total and utter waste of time & money, STOP BEING > morons please customers, insist on CD-ROMs which work properly and > within the spec of the media. > If the customers stopped being morons...then Mi$uck would be out of business... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: "Kevin G. Rhoads" Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> <3D3DFA07.6998D77A@ev1.net> Message-ID: <01c2329e$693815a0$9184eb41@stupidwin95> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:24:27 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust145.tnt1.andover.ma.da.uu.net 65.235.132.145 Lines: 1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!feed.news.msn.com!cpimsnntpa03.news.msn.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112734 >If the customers stopped being morons...then Mi$uck would be >out of business... We should all live so long. -- Kevin G. Rhoads, Ph.D. (The Cheshire Cat for official Internet mascot.) kgrhoads@NO_SPAM.alum.mit.edu ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> <685.969T782T9004287@kltpzyxm.invalid> From: Bernd Felsche User-Agent: nn/6.6.3 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:59:03 +0800 Message-ID: Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: innovative.iinet.net.au X-Trace: news.iinet.net.au 1027479604 28283 203.59.144.24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.online.be!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!news.iinet.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112758 "Charlie Gibbs" writes: >In article <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> >too.much.spam@example.com (Pascal Bourguignon) writes: >>A couple of years ago, I read on the web that Microsoft issued a >>CD-ROM that was deffective and did not support the latest 52x CD-ROM >>drives. >Why does that not surprise me...? >>Hopefully, shrapnel of plastic is less lethal than shrapnel of iron... >Actually, most disk platters were made of aluminum. But I wouldn't >want to be around when the fragments started flying, no matter what >they're made of. Some 10krpm and 15krpm drives have glass platters. Tell me about glass's strength in tension. :-( -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! ###### Message-ID: <3D3B839F.4EBF3FEC@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 04:00:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.158.77.169 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc04.gnilink.net 1027483254 141.158.77.169 (Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:00:54 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:00:54 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc04.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112711 Ignatios Souvatzis wrote: > > Pascal Bourguignon writes: > > > [...] Hopefully, shrapnel of plastic is less lethal than > > shrapnel of iron... > > worse, because you can't see the the pieces on xray photographs. So, get an MRI. -- Foo! ###### From: Ian Stirling Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:26:43 GMT Message-ID: <1027499203.16993.0.nnrp-08.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> <685.969T782T9004287@kltpzyxm.invalid> NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1027499203 nnrp-08:16993 NO-IDENT mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: tin/1.5.6-20000803 ("Dust") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.18 (i686)) Originator: root@mauve.demon.co.uk Lines: 36 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mauve.demon.co.uk!root Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112762 Bernd Felsche wrote: > > "Charlie Gibbs" writes: > >>In article <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> >>too.much.spam@example.com (Pascal Bourguignon) writes: > >>>A couple of years ago, I read on the web that Microsoft issued a >>>CD-ROM that was deffective and did not support the latest 52x CD-ROM >>>drives. > >>Why does that not surprise me...? > >>>Hopefully, shrapnel of plastic is less lethal than shrapnel of iron... > >>Actually, most disk platters were made of aluminum. But I wouldn't >>want to be around when the fragments started flying, no matter what >>they're made of. > > Some 10krpm and 15krpm drives have glass platters. > > Tell me about glass's strength in tension. :-( Pretty good, actually. I have actually been injured by the platters from a PCMCIA hard disk (made of glass), though I was dissasembling it at the time. -- http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling. ---------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------- "Melchett : Unhappily Blackadder, the Lord High Executioner is dead Blackadder : Oh woe! Murdered of course. Melchett : No, oddly enough no. They usually are but this one just got careless one night and signed his name on the wrong dotted line. They came for him while he slept." - Blackadder II ###### From: stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> <1xk%8.239945$iX5.12561561@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> Organization: Metropolis Grafix Reply-To: stanb@dial.pipex.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.2 UNIX) Date: 24 Jul 2002 13:39:57 GMT Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: userbi57.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: 1027517997 news.dial.pipex.com 233 62.188.143.121 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!lnewspeer00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewsifeed02.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewsifeed03.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112722 On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:12:14 GMT, MSCHAEF.COM wrote: >In article , >Rupert Pigott wrote: > >>Talking of which I ******* hate anything > 16x CD-ROM drive because >>they take SO DAMN LONG to spin up and they constantly change speeds >>in operation because they can rarely read the data at that speed >>any way. What a total and utter waste of time & money, STOP BEING >>morons please customers, insist on CD-ROMs which work properly and >>within the spec of the media. > >Hey... someone else agrees with me! The last CD-ROM drive I've owned that >performed adequately for anything other than installs was a 1994-5-era x4 >drive. Everything else takes too long to respond to the first read. >Even playing audio CD's, I have to wait 10 or 20 seconds for seeks to >complete. I read an article somewhere in which someone timed typical CD accesses on a variety of different speed drives. He came to the conclusion that for typical use a 16x or 20x drive was the optimum. I certainly prefer the 8x drive in this machine to the 52x one on the box upstairs... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:06:58 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> <1xk%8.239945$iX5.12561561@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> User-Agent: tin/1.5.12-20020427 ("Sugar") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.6-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!feed.news.nacamar.de!eusc.inter.net!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!sn-xit-05!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112752 Stan Barr wrote: > > I read an article somewhere in which someone timed typical CD accesses > on a variety of different speed drives. He came to the conclusion that > for typical use a 16x or 20x drive was the optimum. I certainly prefer > the 8x drive in this machine to the 52x one on the box upstairs... I don't think I've ever noticed any improvement after the x12 I had three PCs ago. (I recently swapped out I think an x40 in favour of a third IDE disc and I'm relying on the x32/x8/x8 CDRW drive...) You only *really* start to appreciate multi-speed CDs when you start working on a slow one again. I was reinstalling my Sparc 5/170 clone the other night off a single-speed IBM SCSI CD - pure pain. (ISTR there were "half-speed" CD-ROMs early on, with 75kbytes/sec transfer speed - anyone remember them?) pete -- pete@fenelon.com "serious sport has nothing to do with fair play" - orwell ###### From: "George R. Gonzalez" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:17:08 -0500 Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: "George R. Gonzalez" X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1027520305 19430 160.94.124.25 (24 Jul 2002 14:18:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!laurel.tc.umn.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112735 "Lucas Tam" wrote in message news:Xns9253F00C93B5Enntprogerscom@140.99.99.130... > I heard from a colleague at work that Hard Drive casings are so thick > because years ago, someone was killed when a hard drive failed. > Apparently, the spinning platters of the hard drive shattered into many > pieces and flew out of the hard drive's then thin casing like pieces of > shrapnel. > > Is this true? > > It sounds like an urban legend... however, he insists it's true. > Sounds like an urban legend. Most hard disk platters are aluminum, which is quite strong in tension. I suspect the case and platters are thick to minimize warping during machining and warmup, plus they've probably been carefully annealed to release any machining strains. It seems unlikely the platters could fail in that manner, i.e. shattering. Just an intiuitive opinion! Now if you were talking about one of those old CDC 6600 disks, (808?), now THAT looked dangerous! Platters musta been 3 feet across, needed 3-phase power for the drive motors.... ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Doc Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> <1xk%8.239945$iX5.12561561@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (Linux) Lines: 18 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:06:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.69.202.179 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.austin.rr.com 1027523165 66.69.202.179 (Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:06:05 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:06:05 CDT Organization: Road Runner - Texas Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!cyclone.austin.rr.com!twister.austin.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112756 On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:06:58 -0000, Pete Fenelon wrote: > > (ISTR there were "half-speed" CD-ROMs early on, with 75kbytes/sec > transfer speed - anyone remember them?) The RRD40, an early DEC CD-ROM, is usually listed as a 1x, but transfers are on the order of 100-120kb/s, or 3/4x, and the RRD50, which I think is a rebadged Phillips model, was supposed to be more like 40-50kb/s, with seek times of over 1 second. The Apple CD-150 wasn't even rated, and is reputed to be about 3/4x, at 110kb/s. Mine is old and ailing, and I haven't really benchmarked it, but it's probably even slower than that. Apple was quite optimistic about the transfer rates on all their early CD-ROMs.... What the early CD-ROMs mostly had going for them was quarter-inch tape. Doc ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:27:38 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> <1xk%8.239945$iX5.12561561@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-128-11.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: paris.btinternet.com 1027524458 28944 213.1.128.11 (24 Jul 2002 15:27:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:27:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!news-x2.support.nl!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!easynet-monga!easynet-melon!easynet.net!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112744 "Pete Fenelon" wrote in message news:ujtd42sgicbica@corp.supernews.com... > Stan Barr wrote: > > > > I read an article somewhere in which someone timed typical CD accesses > > on a variety of different speed drives. He came to the conclusion that > > for typical use a 16x or 20x drive was the optimum. I certainly prefer > > the 8x drive in this machine to the 52x one on the box upstairs... > > I don't think I've ever noticed any improvement after the x12 I had > three PCs ago. (I recently swapped out I think an x40 in favour of a > third IDE disc and I'm relying on the x32/x8/x8 CDRW drive...) > > You only *really* start to appreciate multi-speed CDs when you start > working on a slow one again. I was reinstalling my Sparc 5/170 clone the > other night off a single-speed IBM SCSI CD - pure pain. Hehe. Well, I started on a 4x and I wouldn't want to go back. The 12x was definately the most responsive I had, with the 16x5 way Nakamichi auto-changer being the best overall... That thing is *still* going and it was one of the cheapest SCSI 16x drives around at the time (let alone that it's a 5x changer). I'll have to hold a funeral with full honors when that drive snuffs it. :( Cheers, Rupert ###### From: "Russell P. Holsclaw" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Lines: 47 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:04:38 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.183.117.237 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1027526687 216.183.117.237 (Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:04:47 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:04:47 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112736 "Nico de Jong" wrote in message news:vS5%8.2$G36.980@news.get2net.dk... > "Lucas Tam" skrev i en meddelelse > news:Xns9253F00C93B5Enntprogerscom@140.99.99.130... > > I heard from a colleague at work that Hard Drive casings are so thick > > because years ago, someone was killed when a hard drive failed. > > Well, I can _imagine_ it could be true when we talk of 2311 or 2314 packs. > These packs were inserted into the drive (the word "downloaded" comes to > mind), and the top (2311) resp front (2314) were plastic or glass, IIRC. > Maybe even the 3330 could be a candidate, but the used sealed cartridges. > Correct me if I am wrong, I havnt seen these models for quite some years > > Not that it matters, but does anyone remember the RPM of the 2311 ? > The 2311 and 2314 spun at 1800 rpm (33.3 ms per rev, average rotational latency: 16.7 ms or 1/2 of a rev.). I don't think there was ever a 14-incher that spun quicker than 3600 rpm, if that. And I've never heard of any flying apart, either. This sounds to me like the stuff of "urban legend". If anyone knows of such a case, I'd like to see it documented with names, dates, and places. The 3330 disk pack inserted into the drive in much the same way as the 2314's. Starting with the 3340 (the famed "Winchester", the disk packs started to be hermetically sealed with the head assembly included in the cartridge. The flying distances started to be so low that it wasn't safe to expose them to the ambient atmosphere. Also, with the Winchester, the heads were never "unloaded" from the disk, but actually came into contact with the disk when rotation stopped ... in the "landing area". This is still true of drives today, AFAIK. Part of the motivation for smaller form factors on disk drives is to enable them to spin faster. Of course, there's also the simple fact that density has gone through the roof and the tolerances are easier to maintain in a physically smaller package. -- Russ Holsclaw ###### Message-ID: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.237.69.162 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc53 1027527775 12.237.69.162 (Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:22:55 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:22:55 GMT Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:22:55 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!router1.news.adelphia.net!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!tethys.csu.net!nntp!sn-xit-05!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-08!supernews.com!12.120.28.37.MISMATCH!attla2!ip.att.net!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc53.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112764 "George R. Gonzalez" wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > Now if you were talking about one of those old CDC 6600 disks, (808?), now > THAT looked dangerous! Platters musta been 3 feet across, needed 3-phase > power for the drive motors.... > Wasn't it the old Bryant disk drives that had three or four foot platters that spun in the *vertical* direction??? These supposedly had enough momentum...that some platter got away and cut things in half!!! -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 24 Jul 2002 17:24:05 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027531445 3255 134.117.136.30 (24 Jul 2002 17:24:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jul 2002 17:24:05 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator-sterling!news-in.nuthinbutnews.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112743 Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) writes: > Wasn't it the old Bryant disk drives that had three or four foot > platters that spun in the *vertical* direction??? These supposedly > had enough momentum...that some platter got away and cut things > in half!!! IIRC, the early Bryant cabinets were mounted on casters and had to be realigned every two to three hours because of the gyroscopic effect. Later models were pinned into the floor, but the cabinets were visibly stressed. ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:41:37 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1027548254 mail2news:24130 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 41 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsmi-eu.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112778 [Charles' post hasn't yet reached my server, so I'm piggy-backing on Heinz's] In article ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" writes: > Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) writes: > > > Wasn't it the old Bryant disk drives that had three or four foot > > platters that spun in the *vertical* direction??? These supposedly > > had enough momentum...that some platter got away and cut things > > in half!!! We had a Bryant disk in the 1970s; about 900mm diameter and 10mm thick, made out of solid brass, and inside a hermetically sealed chamber that was kept pressurized by nitrogen. One head per track, so zero seek time; it had the positively staggering capacity of eighteen mega-BITS. Span at something like 10,000 rpm. I've not heard of one of those breaking away, but do know of a magnetic DRUM getting free (in a Ferranti Pegasus installtion) back in the 1960s, that went through three (breeze- block) office walls. > IIRC, the early Bryant cabinets were mounted on casters and had > to be realigned every two to three hours because of the gyroscopic > effect. Later models were pinned into the floor, but the cabinets > were visibly stressed. I've mentioned before the large multi-platter Bryant disk that was intended to be deployed in the Nimrod aircraft. This was known as "Snow White's Coffin" because it was in a glass cabinet that allowed sight of the multiple platters. Apparently it caused problems through the gyroscopic effect, making the aircraft very hard to manoeuvre, and was luckily overtaken by technological progress. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? From: Lucas Tam References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> Organization: None of Your Business!!! Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 X-Face: #gFwhH/LPM9"eq Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) writes: > >> Wasn't it the old Bryant disk drives that had three or four foot >> platters that spun in the *vertical* direction??? These supposedly >> had enough momentum...that some platter got away and cut things >> in half!!! > > IIRC, the early Bryant cabinets were mounted on casters and had > to be realigned every two to three hours because of the gyroscopic > effect. Later models were pinned into the floor, but the cabinets > were visibly stressed. I guess Luckily I'm not old enough to remember tho... whoever was a technician for those drives must of felt weary to be near them at times huh. -- __ ______ / /\_/_ __/\ | Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com) /____/\/_/\_\/ | Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address \____\/\_\/ | when replying. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 24 Jul 2002 21:10:07 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 7 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027545007 20035 134.117.136.30 (24 Jul 2002 21:10:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jul 2002 21:10:07 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112773 Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com) writes: > > I guess Luckily I'm not old enough to remember tho... whoever was a > technician for those drives must of felt weary to be near them at times > huh. Ya, at end of shift, the operators were really torqued. ###### From: Jim Stewart Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:11:14 -0700 Organization: http://www.jkmicro.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: <35153077EE15D026.66CC88AECD651E86.BA6C56DBEBD4E029@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: <3D3F2602.ED74740A@jkmicro.com> References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> Reply-To: jstewart@jkmicro.com Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library2.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Wed Jul 24 17:07:26 2002 NNTP-Posting-Host: ![q4t1k-XhM04>)FV&2)EYVt@ (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!cabal2.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112771 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > > Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) writes: > > > Wasn't it the old Bryant disk drives that had three or four foot > > platters that spun in the *vertical* direction??? These supposedly > > had enough momentum...that some platter got away and cut things > > in half!!! > > IIRC, the early Bryant cabinets were mounted on casters and had > to be realigned every two to three hours because of the gyroscopic > effect. Later models were pinned into the floor, but the cabinets > were visibly stressed. I'm trying to figure out the mechanism for that and the only thing that comes to mind is that the whole unit would precess around due to the earth's rotation. Tell me I must be wrong :) ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 24 Jul 02 17:20:07 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: <676.970T359T10403828@kltpzyxm.invalid> References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-185.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!dca6-feed2.news.algx.net!sfo2-feed1.news.algx.net!allegiance!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112828 In article ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes: > I think that all beverage alcohol should be prohibited within 100km > of engineering schools. Nah, let 'em be. But keep the alcohol away from the MBA schools. I don't mind engineers cooking up hare-brained schemes - it makes life entertaining. It's the PHBs who decree that such schemes be put into practice (if they don't come up with even sillier schemes themselves) that need to be kept on a tight leash. -- cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) I'm really at moc.subyks if you read it the right way. Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 24 Jul 2002 23:34:40 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027553680 7899 134.117.136.30 (24 Jul 2002 23:34:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jul 2002 23:34:40 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112840 Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) writes: > > I've mentioned before the large multi-platter Bryant disk that was > intended to be deployed in the Nimrod aircraft. This was known as "Snow > White's Coffin" because it was in a glass cabinet that allowed sight of > the multiple platters. Apparently it caused problems through the > gyroscopic effect, making the aircraft very hard to manoeuvre, and was > luckily overtaken by technological progress. Now here's another example where keeping the old hands for their experience and wisdom would've paid off. In WW 1, there were fighter aircraft in which the radial engine actually _rotated_ at propeller speed, (ie. the crankshaft was stationary, the cylinders turned). Nifty engineering trick for air-cooling the motor, but not so great in certain dogfight situations. In case you think that this lunatic idea died out, (along with some pilots), there's a museum, (OK, collection of mechanical junk), just south of Ettlingen in Germany which had a _motorcycle_ with a radial engine in its _front wheel_ ! Try steering that sucker at anything above 20 kph. I think that all beverage alcohol should be prohibited within 100km of engineering schools. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 24 Jul 2002 23:36:54 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <35153077EE15D026.66CC88AECD651E86.BA6C56DBEBD4E029@lp.airnews.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027553814 7984 134.117.136.30 (24 Jul 2002 23:36:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jul 2002 23:36:54 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!Quza.UK.peer!nntp.gblx.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112841 Jim Stewart (jstewart@jkmicro.com) writes: > > I'm trying to figure out the mechanism for that and the only thing that > comes to mind is that the whole unit would precess around due to the > earth's rotation. Tell me I must be wrong :) Not if you're wearing a white fur coat or a black and white tuxedo. ###### From: aw288@osfn.org (William Donzelli) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 24 Jul 2002 19:08:21 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 28 Message-ID: <8a1964a6.0207241808.825c305@posting.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.179.2.122 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1027562902 27112 127.0.0.1 (25 Jul 2002 02:08:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jul 2002 02:08:22 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112858 "Russell P. Holsclaw" wrote in message news:... > The 2311 and 2314 spun at 1800 rpm (33.3 ms per rev, average > rotational latency: 16.7 ms or 1/2 of a rev.). From a plain old 1/4 horse motor, no less. Pretty crude. Glass window on the drive, too, as someone asked. > Also, > with the Winchester, the heads were never "unloaded" from the disk, > but actually came into contact with the disk when rotation stopped ... > in the "landing area". This is still true of drives today, AFAIK. One big difference is that the platters of the 3348 (the proper name of the Winchester's packs) were coated with a silicone oil. A perfect example of Good Idea/Bad Idea - the heads really do not care much when they fall, with the oil making for a nice, smooth landing...however...any bit of dust or lint that came into contact with the platters stuck quite nicely, and would not blow off. I do not think the idea was repeated. Anyway, in the begging department...I am in need of any number of disk packs for the 2311 and 3340. The 2311s packs are called 2316s and the 3340s are called 3348s (at least by IBM). I'll even take known bad packs. Oh, and a 2841 control unit for the 2311... William Donzelli ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? From: Lucas Tam References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> Organization: None of Your Business!!! Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 X-Face: #gFwhH/LPM9"eq I think that all beverage alcohol should be prohibited within 100km > of engineering schools. An engineer without alcohol is not an engineer! -- __ ______ / /\_/_ __/\ | Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com) /____/\/_/\_\/ | Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address \____\/\_\/ | when replying. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <676.970T359T10403828@kltpzyxm.invalid> From: Bernd Felsche User-Agent: nn/6.6.3 Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:45:04 +0800 Message-ID: <08snha.jvc.ln@innovative.iinet.net.au> Lines: 34 NNTP-Posting-Host: innovative.iinet.net.au X-Trace: news.iinet.net.au 1027569602 29876 203.59.144.24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-west.nntpserver.com!hub1.meganetnews.com!nntpserver.com!newsfeed.news2me.com!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!news.iinet.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112860 "Charlie Gibbs" writes: >In article ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA >(Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes: >> I think that all beverage alcohol should be prohibited within 100km >> of engineering schools. >Nah, let 'em be. But keep the alcohol away from the MBA schools. >I don't mind engineers cooking up hare-brained schemes - it makes >life entertaining. It's the PHBs who decree that such schemes be >put into practice (if they don't come up with even sillier schemes >themselves) that need to be kept on a tight leash. I agrees with Charlie: Many good, practical ideas sprout from hare-brained ones. Sometimes, the "hare-brained" ones are actually the best solution to a problem. Coming up with all sorts of ideas quickly, without analysis of each individual idea, is part of an ideation process (brain-storming if you like). You basically come up with as many ideas and concepts as possible in a short time, pausing only to note each idea. Works best in small groups of 3 to 6; accompanied by suitable libation. The amazing thing is that the people involved don't actually have to be experts; diversity of interests is an aid. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:22:38 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-131-2.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: venus.btinternet.com 1027574558 9050 213.1.131.2 (25 Jul 2002 05:22:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:22:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112851 "Dowe Keller" wrote in message news:m34reoz7li.fsf@krikkit.127.0.0.1... > ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes: > > > Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) writes: [SNIP] > > Now here's another example where keeping the old hands for their > > experience and wisdom would've paid off. In WW 1, there were > > fighter aircraft in which the radial engine actually _rotated_ > > at propeller speed, (ie. the crankshaft was stationary, the cylinders > > turned). Nifty engineering trick for air-cooling the motor, but not > > so great in certain dogfight situations. > > The're *rotary* not *radial* engines, IIRC the radial was introduced > at the very end of the war. Also, unless I'm mistaken, the (crude) > carb was mounted stationary, and served each cylinder as it passed by. I think that the motor he's probably thinking of was a Gnome-Rhone. Part of the idea was to save on a flywheel... I would have thought that simply using a heavier prop would have been a smart idea. What do I know, I'm a layman. :) Cheers, Rupert ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> From: Dowe Keller Date: 24 Jul 2002 22:42:33 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 40 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.169.219.110 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.169.219.110 X-Trace: news.sierratel.com 1027573065 206.169.219.110 (24 Jul 2002 21:57:45 -0700) Organization: news.sierratel.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news.sierratel.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112805 ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes: > Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) writes: > > > > I've mentioned before the large multi-platter Bryant disk that was > > intended to be deployed in the Nimrod aircraft. This was known as "Snow > > White's Coffin" because it was in a glass cabinet that allowed sight of > > the multiple platters. Apparently it caused problems through the > > gyroscopic effect, making the aircraft very hard to manoeuvre, and was > > luckily overtaken by technological progress. > > Now here's another example where keeping the old hands for their > experience and wisdom would've paid off. In WW 1, there were > fighter aircraft in which the radial engine actually _rotated_ > at propeller speed, (ie. the crankshaft was stationary, the cylinders > turned). Nifty engineering trick for air-cooling the motor, but not > so great in certain dogfight situations. The're *rotary* not *radial* engines, IIRC the radial was introduced at the very end of the war. Also, unless I'm mistaken, the (crude) carb was mounted stationary, and served each cylinder as it passed by. One thing I know for sure, the great majority of them had no throttle control. You controlled speed by intermittently cutting the ignition (I think). > In case you think that this lunatic idea died out, (along with some > pilots), there's a museum, (OK, collection of mechanical junk), just > south of Ettlingen in Germany which had a _motorcycle_ with a radial > engine in its _front wheel_ ! Try steering that sucker at anything > above 20 kph. I believe Jay Leno has one of these (along with one of every other car and motorcycle to ever be built). -- dowe@sierratel.com Your job is being a professor and researcher: That's one hell of a good excuse for some of the brain-damages of minix. (Linus Torvalds to Andrew Tanenbaum) ###### From: "Don Chiasson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Lines: 17 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Message-ID: <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:38:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.43.220.117 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rogers.com X-Trace: news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com 1027607933 24.43.220.117 (Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:38:53 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:38:53 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!ps01-sjc1!news.webusenet.com!news03.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com!news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112806 "Dowe Keller" wrote in message news:m34reoz7li.fsf@krikkit.127.0.0.1... [snip...] > One thing I know for sure, the great majority of them had no throttle > control. You controlled speed by intermittently cutting the ignition > (I think). Surely not. More likely vary the prop pitch to change the power level. There would be an automatic throttle to keep constant motor speed. Just guessing. :-) ---Don e-mail: it's not not, it's hot. ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:32:13 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-200-51.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: helle.btinternet.com 1027611133 29111 213.122.200.51 (25 Jul 2002 15:32:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:32:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112850 "Don Chiasson" wrote in message news:14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > > "Dowe Keller" wrote in message > news:m34reoz7li.fsf@krikkit.127.0.0.1... > [snip...] > > > One thing I know for sure, the great majority of them had no throttle > > control. You controlled speed by intermittently cutting the ignition > > (I think). > > Surely not. More likely vary the prop pitch to change the power > level. There would be an automatic throttle to keep constant > motor speed. Just guessing. :-) The Gnome-Rhone was used in First World War combat aircraft, so you're talking about one piece props hacked from timber. Not much scope for varying the pitch. I have a vague memory that they did indeed cut the ignition to control the RPM. :P Long time since I studied aeroengines so my memory could well have let me down... I do remember reading about Gnome-Rhone's with a growing sense of horror and amazement. Cheers, Rupert ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 25 Jul 2002 15:40:36 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027611636 272 134.117.136.30 (25 Jul 2002 15:40:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jul 2002 15:40:36 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-peer-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112823 "Rupert Pigott" (dark.try-eating-this.b00ng@btinternet.com) writes: > ... > Long time since I studied aeroengines so my memory could well have > let me down... I do remember reading about Gnome-Rhone's with a > growing sense of horror and amazement. Funny, that's what the pilots who landed thought too. As for the rest, there were no cockpit sound recorders at that time. ###### Message-ID: <3D40227B.5050105@mywavemail.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:08:27 -0500 From: charles User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0rc3) Gecko/20020523 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 37 NNTP-Posting-Host: a04b4f56.news.dwave.net X-Trace: 1027613303 gemini.dwave.net 79562 206.176.215.194 X-Complaints-To: abuse@dwave.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!gemini.dwave.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112797 Rupert Pigott wrote: > "Dowe Keller" wrote in message > news:m34reoz7li.fsf@krikkit.127.0.0.1... > >>ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes: >> >> >>>Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) writes: >> > > [SNIP] > > >>> Now here's another example where keeping the old hands for their >>> experience and wisdom would've paid off. In WW 1, there were >>> fighter aircraft in which the radial engine actually _rotated_ >>> at propeller speed, (ie. the crankshaft was stationary, the cylinders >>> turned). Nifty engineering trick for air-cooling the motor, but not >>> so great in certain dogfight situations. >> >>The're *rotary* not *radial* engines, IIRC the radial was introduced >>at the very end of the war. Also, unless I'm mistaken, the (crude) >>carb was mounted stationary, and served each cylinder as it passed by. > > > I think that the motor he's probably thinking of was a Gnome-Rhone. Part > of the idea was to save on a flywheel... I would have thought that simply > using a heavier prop would have been a smart idea. What do I know, I'm a > layman. :) > > Cheers, > Rupert > > http://www.aviation-history.com/engines/rotary.htm ###### Message-ID: <3D402F6F.7E996CD4@thinkage.ca> From: "Alan T. Bowler" Organization: Thinkage Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:03:43 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.102.11.4 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 1027616623 192.102.11.4 (Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:03:43 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:03:43 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112787 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > > I think that all beverage alcohol should be prohibited within 100km > of engineering schools. I know that engineers have a reputation for hard drinking. However, when I was at university, the Federation of Students was in the process of establishing a full time pub on campus and so was paying very close attention to sales. At the time the winter break was only a feature of the non-tech faculties, so Math, Engineering and Science didn't get a break, and Arts and Environmental Studies did. The VP of the Federation observed that it was during "arts slack week" that the pub was empty. ###### From: stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> Organization: Metropolis Grafix Reply-To: stanb@dial.pipex.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.2 UNIX) Date: 25 Jul 2002 17:32:29 GMT Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62-190-200-228.pdu.pipex.net X-Trace: 1027618349 news.dial.pipex.com 237 62.190.200.228 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.esat.net!lnewspeer01.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewsifeed03.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112800 On 24 Jul 2002 23:34:40 GMT, Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: > > In case you think that this lunatic idea died out, (along with some > pilots), there's a museum, (OK, collection of mechanical junk), just > south of Ettlingen in Germany which had a _motorcycle_ with a radial > engine in its _front wheel_ ! Try steering that sucker at anything > above 20 kph. Ah...the famous Megola! They were in production from 1921 to 1924. They even used to race the things - the works machine reached 92mph (147km/h) - brave men! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:40:55 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D40227B.5050105@mywavemail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-135-40.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: helle.btinternet.com 1027618855 10100 213.1.135.40 (25 Jul 2002 17:40:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:40:55 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112836 "charles" wrote in message news:3D40227B.5050105@mywavemail.com... [SNIP] > http://www.aviation-history.com/engines/rotary.htm Thanks for the link. That awakened lots of dead braincells. I'm wondering if I'm thinking of another rotary for the ignition- throttle thing now. The line at the bottom is quite telling : "As rotaries went, they were dependable engines." :) Cheers, Rupert ###### From: stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> Organization: Metropolis Grafix Reply-To: stanb@dial.pipex.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.2 UNIX) Date: 25 Jul 2002 18:10:30 GMT Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62-190-203-116.pdu.pipex.net X-Trace: 1027620630 news.dial.pipex.com 234 62.190.203.116 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!newsfeeder.ewetel.de!news.vew-telnet.net!news.tmr.net!news.ruhr-uni-bochum.de!fu-berlin.de!bnewspeer00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewsifeed02.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112792 On Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:38:53 GMT, Don Chiasson wrote: > >"Dowe Keller" wrote in message >news:m34reoz7li.fsf@krikkit.127.0.0.1... >[snip...] > >> One thing I know for sure, the great majority of them had no throttle >> control. You controlled speed by intermittently cutting the ignition >> (I think). > >Surely not. More likely vary the prop pitch to change the power >level. There would be an automatic throttle to keep constant >motor speed. Just guessing. :-) The Gnome rotary had a very crude carb which required the pilot to control both the air and the fuel manually. This was a bit too much to do while landing etc. so it was common practice to blip the engine with an ignition cut-out to reduce power for landing. Later engines had better automatic carbs so the practice was no longer necessary. There were quite a few other rotary aircraft engines, the last one was, I think, by Siemens which had the crank- shaft and cylinders rotating in opposite directions! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! ###### From: J. Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:31:33 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-471.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112821 In article <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, don_chiasson@notmail.com says... > > "Dowe Keller" wrote in message > news:m34reoz7li.fsf@krikkit.127.0.0.1... > [snip...] > > > One thing I know for sure, the great majority of them had no throttle > > control. You controlled speed by intermittently cutting the ignition > > (I think). > > Surely not. More likely vary the prop pitch to change the power > level. There would be an automatic throttle to keep constant > motor speed. Just guessing. :-) Prop pitch? On a WWI combat aircraft? If you ever get a chance to examine one you will find that they have fixed-pitch wooden propellers. -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### From: Jim Stewart Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:37:11 -0700 Organization: http://www.jkmicro.com Lines: 27 Message-ID: <8075F6AAF856D1D8.2315E74E8E8F2A15.6B9206A23DB7D000@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: <3D404557.AA7D71EC@jkmicro.com> References: <8a1964a6.0207241808.825c305@posting.google.com> Reply-To: jstewart@jkmicro.com Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Thu Jul 25 13:32:54 2002 NNTP-Posting-Host: !`M]:1k-Y#nn%\SFV&2)EYVt? (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal13.airnews.net!cabal2.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112791 William Donzelli wrote: > > "Russell P. Holsclaw" wrote in message news:... > > > The 2311 and 2314 spun at 1800 rpm (33.3 ms per rev, average > > rotational latency: 16.7 ms or 1/2 of a rev.). > > From a plain old 1/4 horse motor, no less. Pretty crude. Glass window > on the drive, too, as someone asked. > > > Also, > > with the Winchester, the heads were never "unloaded" from the disk, > > but actually came into contact with the disk when rotation stopped ... > > in the "landing area". This is still true of drives today, AFAIK. > > One big difference is that the platters of the 3348 (the proper name > of the Winchester's packs) were coated with a silicone oil. A perfect > example of Good Idea/Bad Idea - the heads really do not care much when > they fall, with the oil making for a nice, smooth > landing...however...any bit of dust or lint that came into contact > with the platters stuck quite nicely, and would not blow off. > > I do not think the idea was repeated. DEC's fixed head disks such as the DF32 and the RF mumble mumble had to have their platters waxed before replacement. DEC had an approved wax and Turtle Wax automotive wax was an acceptable substitute. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 25 Jul 2002 19:03:43 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D402F6F.7E996CD4@thinkage.ca> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027623823 16535 134.117.136.30 (25 Jul 2002 19:03:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jul 2002 19:03:43 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!nntp.abs.net!news-peer-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112832 "Alan T. Bowler" (atbowler@thinkage.ca) writes: > > I know that engineers have a reputation for hard drinking. At least in North American non-religious schools. > However, when I was at university, the Federation of Students > was in the process of establishing a full time pub on campus > and so was paying very close attention to sales. At the time > the winter break was only a feature of the non-tech faculties, > so Math, Engineering and Science didn't get a break, and Arts > and Environmental Studies did. The VP of the Federation observed > that it was during "arts slack week" that the pub was empty. Natch. The engineers had already drunk up their bank accounts. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 25 Jul 2002 19:06:52 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027624012 16862 134.117.136.30 (25 Jul 2002 19:06:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jul 2002 19:06:52 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112838 Stan Barr (stanb@dial.pipex.com) writes: > > Ah...the famous Megola! They were in production from 1921 to 1924. > They even used to race the things - the works machine reached 92mph > (147km/h) - brave men! As a former motorcyclist, (Honda 500 Four), I don't thing that the word "brave" comes to mind. ###### Message-ID: <3D417D3E.FEC2DFBC@thinkage.ca> From: "Alan T. Bowler" Organization: Thinkage Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D402F6F.7E996CD4@thinkage.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 11 Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:47:58 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.102.11.4 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 1027702078 192.102.11.4 (Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:47:58 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:47:58 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112788 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > > Natch. The engineers had already drunk up their bank accounts. Actually not. Math, engineering and science did not get reading week because of co-op program time constraints. Tech student bank account were in much better shape at that time of year (i.e. they had topped up their accounts 1 1/2 months before while for the arts students it was 5 1/2 months, and tech jobs paid better.) ###### From: stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> Organization: Metropolis Grafix Reply-To: stanb@dial.pipex.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.2 UNIX) Date: 26 Jul 2002 20:03:20 GMT Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62-190-203-228.pdu.pipex.net X-Trace: 1027713800 news.dial.pipex.com 8505 62.190.203.228 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!skynet.be!skynet.be!bnewspeer01.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewsifeed01.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112884 On 26 Jul 2002 17:44:58 GMT, greymaus wrote: > >AFAIK , pitch came in about the start of WWII ( There was a story >somewhere about Polish flyers who moved to the RAF having difficulty >with variable-pitch props ). The first variable-pitch propellor (actually 2-pitch) was fitted experimentally to a R.E.8 in 1918. A fully variable constant-speed type was also tested on a Gloster Grebe in 1927. The first mass produced commercial ones were made by Hamilton in the US. AFAIK, in service from 1936. We do talk a lot about aircraft machinery on here, don't we?? :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Sun, 28 Jul 02 09:58:44 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <4b5c88f0a3dave_daniels@argonet.co.uk> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYoSA+Hy30mRln1PlkDfvGGoAQUayVHu1stfXEeq0MyRkSg8azJNhWq X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jul 2002 11:04:04 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.f.de.plusline.net!feed.news.nacamar.de!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!208-59-181-26 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112903 In article , stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) wrote: >On Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:17:35 +0100, Dave Daniels > wrote: >>In article , >> Stan Barr wrote: >>> We do talk a lot about aircraft machinery on here, don't we?? :-) >> >>Well, I'm not complaining! >> >>I recall that it says in the Jargon File that there seems to be a >>lot of programmers who are musicians, more than you would expect >>to see in a random group of people. Perhaps there is a second >>correlation between programmers and an interest in aircraft and >>flying? > >I qualify on both counts :-) > I don't. However, you will notice that all are very expensive hobbies. The computer biz is the only one that paid enough to fund all of them. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 27 Jul 2002 02:17:08 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027736228 27941 134.117.136.30 (27 Jul 2002 02:17:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 2002 02:17:08 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112921 Stan Barr (stanb@dial.pipex.com) writes: > > The first variable-pitch propellor (actually 2-pitch) was fitted > experimentally to a R.E.8 in 1918. A fully variable constant-speed > type was also tested on a Gloster Grebe in 1927. Gloster, as in Gloster Meteor? What became of that outfit? (I don't DubDubDub lately.) > We do talk a lot about aircraft machinery on here, don't we?? :-) Starting with artillery tables, it's hard to decide which general area of engineering has taken up more CPU time within the realm of a.f.c (i.e. 20 years ago). I believe it was McDonnell Douglas that unloaded 6 high end IBM 91 or 95 or 195s in the early 70's at a time that I was still mightily impressed with the 85. I guess that old Nastran code could really crunch through the CPU cycles. ###### From: "Kelli Halliburton" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Lines: 15 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.90.104.134 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr15.news.prodigy.com 1027744346 ST000 166.90.104.134 (Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:32:26 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:32:26 EDT Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCOXTAB\X[WBIFJ[MESCVLCUPHQQ]J]Q]KJAVNDQIBLNSQAKKZ@TXZY_KHS^FSKGJLOF_F_N[CXVW[^UDDM^T]HTLIGX\NRRC@O\P^@MD_[S@FH__@WDCUZA^NHD[SJORN]Y_UGKGPJD]WNN[\ESXHWTWIEQYGQLS@[[G\APPF@\@R]SLGRFUAQUFN Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 04:32:26 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!prodigy.*.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr15.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!7115ad8a!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112891 "Dowe Keller" wrote in message news:m34reoz7li.fsf@krikkit.127.0.0.1... > ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes: > The're *rotary* not *radial* engines, IIRC the radial was introduced > at the very end of the war. Also, unless I'm mistaken, the (crude) > carb was mounted stationary, and served each cylinder as it passed by. > > One thing I know for sure, the great majority of them had no throttle > control. You controlled speed by intermittently cutting the ignition > (I think). Hmm. A rotary engine design that's not a Wankel, eh? Intriguing. ###### From: "Kelli Halliburton" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Lines: 13 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.90.104.134 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr15.news.prodigy.com 1027744683 ST000 166.90.104.134 (Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:38:03 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:38:03 EDT Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCTS@ERRX[ZJMT_^]K[[UTB_LILIXNMVMHQYUJUZ]CCVWCPG[YMDXZH^[K[FFQZHBM@FX\NJOCW^TGNQLFRFU_HSDIHX[FCUWCXLP@PBL\BKFXXVGCM\CCKFVL_T[GJLBM@Q^]WKGS]T]M^NG_YKYVGV_IJYXS@MCBT[@JPRXECDFZMSXG]NVQQTJL Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 04:38:03 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!207.115.63.138!newscon04.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr15.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!7115ad8a!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112969 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote in message news:ahn53f$ji3$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com) writes: > > > > I guess Luckily I'm not old enough to remember tho... whoever was a > > technician for those drives must of felt weary to be near them at times > > huh. > > Ya, at end of shift, the operators were really torqued. There was a lot of foot pounding going on. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 27 Jul 2002 04:48:52 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 7 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027745332 9596 134.117.136.30 (27 Jul 2002 04:48:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 2002 04:48:52 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshosting.com!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!newspump.sol.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112924 "Kelli Halliburton" (kelli217@crosswinds.not) writes: > > There was a lot of foot pounding going on. You're confusing disk drives dancing across the computer room raised floor with Riverdance, some pumped up Irish dancers. Yes, they both twirl and screech, but the drives had memory. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> From: Dowe Keller Date: 26 Jul 2002 22:09:35 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 27 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.234.196.85 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.234.196.85 X-Trace: news.sierratel.com 1027743810 209.234.196.85 (26 Jul 2002 21:23:30 -0700) Organization: news.sierratel.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news.sierratel.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112907 stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) writes: > On 26 Jul 2002 17:44:58 GMT, greymaus wrote: > We do talk a lot about aircraft machinery on here, don't we?? :-) I believe that interests in some subjects, predisposes people to be interested in other areas. For instance, most computer wonks are also interested in one or more of the following subjects: Electronics, science, math, science-fiction (generally hard SF more than space operas), and aviation. These I believe are interest that are strongly tied together. There are cultural aspects as well, such as a love of Monty Python or HHGG, but I believe there is more than cultural influences going on behind these interests. -- dowe@sierratel.com if (argc > 1 && strcmp(argv[1], "-advice") == 0) { printf("Don't Panic!\n"); exit(42); } (Arnold Robbins in the LJ of February '95, describing RCS) ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:17:17 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> User-Agent: tin/1.5.12-20020427 ("Sugar") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.6-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!easynews!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112936 Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >> The first variable-pitch propellor (actually 2-pitch) was fitted >> experimentally to a R.E.8 in 1918. A fully variable constant-speed >> type was also tested on a Gloster Grebe in 1927. > > Gloster, as in Gloster Meteor? What became of that outfit? > (I don't DubDubDub lately.) > The last Gloster I can think of was the Javelin delta-winged fighter of the late-fifties to mid-sixties. I'd assume that Gloster became part of Hawker-Siddeley and then British Aerospace. pete -- pete@fenelon.com "serious sport has nothing to do with fair play" - orwell ###### From: Dave Daniels Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:17:35 +0100 Message-ID: <4b5c88f0a3dave_daniels@argonet.co.uk> References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.29) Organization: None Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: userkq17.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: 1027765241 news.dial.pipex.com 234 62.188.105.163 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-hub.siol.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!bnewspeer00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspeer01.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112943 In article , Stan Barr wrote: > We do talk a lot about aircraft machinery on here, don't we?? :-) Well, I'm not complaining! I recall that it says in the Jargon File that there seems to be a lot of programmers who are musicians, more than you would expect to see in a random group of people. Perhaps there is a second correlation between programmers and an interest in aircraft and flying? Dave Daniels ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 09:46:55 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> User-Agent: tin/1.5.12-20020427 ("Sugar") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.6-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!isdnet!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112928 Pete Fenelon wrote: > Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >>> The first variable-pitch propellor (actually 2-pitch) was fitted >>> experimentally to a R.E.8 in 1918. A fully variable constant-speed >>> type was also tested on a Gloster Grebe in 1927. >> >> Gloster, as in Gloster Meteor? What became of that outfit? >> (I don't DubDubDub lately.) >> > > The last Gloster I can think of was the Javelin delta-winged fighter > of the late-fifties to mid-sixties. I'd assume that Gloster became > part of Hawker-Siddeley and then British Aerospace. > Incidentally, for anyone interested in British military jets of the fifties to seventies, http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk (named after a kids' book I remember reading about a couple of young aircraft enthusiasts!) is *very* good. pete -- pete@fenelon.com "serious sport has nothing to do with fair play" - orwell ###### From: stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> Organization: Metropolis Grafix Reply-To: stanb@dial.pipex.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.2 UNIX) Date: 27 Jul 2002 09:58:24 GMT Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62-190-201-230.pdu.pipex.net X-Trace: 1027763904 news.dial.pipex.com 227 62.190.201.230 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.online.be!bnewspeer00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewspeer01.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewsifeed01.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112900 On 27 Jul 2002 02:17:08 GMT, Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >Stan Barr (stanb@dial.pipex.com) writes: >> >> The first variable-pitch propellor (actually 2-pitch) was fitted >> experimentally to a R.E.8 in 1918. A fully variable constant-speed >> type was also tested on a Gloster Grebe in 1927. > > Gloster, as in Gloster Meteor? What became of that outfit? > (I don't DubDubDub lately.) Good question...like most of our aircraft companies it probably went through a series of mergers and enevtually became part of British Aerospace... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! ###### From: "Conrad Scott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:42:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3d427871$0$8514$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: userc097.dsl.pipex.com X-Trace: 1027766385 news.dial.pipex.com 8514 62.188.50.97 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!feed.news.nacamar.de!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!news.iesy.de!troll.iesy.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!bnewspeer00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewsifeed00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112948 "Kelli Halliburton" > "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote in message > > Ya, at end of shift, the operators were really torqued. > > There was a lot of foot pounding going on. LOL! Best start to the day I've had for a long time. // Conrad ###### From: stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <4b5c88f0a3dave_daniels@argonet.co.uk> Organization: Metropolis Grafix Reply-To: stanb@dial.pipex.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.2 UNIX) Date: 27 Jul 2002 14:00:20 GMT Lines: 21 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62-190-202-203.pdu.pipex.net X-Trace: 1027778420 news.dial.pipex.com 233 62.190.202.203 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!bnewspeer01.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewsifeed01.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewsifeed00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112899 On Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:17:35 +0100, Dave Daniels wrote: >In article , > Stan Barr wrote: >> We do talk a lot about aircraft machinery on here, don't we?? :-) > >Well, I'm not complaining! > >I recall that it says in the Jargon File that there seems to be a >lot of programmers who are musicians, more than you would expect >to see in a random group of people. Perhaps there is a second >correlation between programmers and an interest in aircraft and >flying? I qualify on both counts :-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! ###### From: andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 27 Jul 2002 14:21:50 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: vpn-129-159-0-89.emea.sun.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: new-usenet.uk.sun.com 1027779710 2056 129.159.0.89 (27 Jul 2002 14:21:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@new-usenet.uk.sun.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 2002 14:21:50 GMT X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!carbon.eu.sun.com!new-usenet.uk.sun.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112923 In article , Lucas Tam writes: > I heard from a colleague at work that Hard Drive casings are so thick > because years ago, someone was killed when a hard drive failed. > Apparently, the spinning platters of the hard drive shattered into many > pieces and flew out of the hard drive's then thin casing like pieces of > shrapnel. > > Is this true? > > It sounds like an urban legend... however, he insists it's true. Like others have said, I don't believe it. The reason the casings were so thick was rigidity. If any part of the platters and fixed part of the head assembly could move relative to each other, you would get read/write errors, or even seek errors in bad cases. When the disc controllers became intelligent enough to cope with such mechanical movement/flexing and could modify their output drive to the voice coil to compensate, then the cases could be made less rigid and a lot cheaper. In terms of things flying to pieces, I would think that is more likely of a drum than a disk. There were lots of special handling precautions for Vermont drums. One of the issues was the long run-down time, and there were injuries caused by people trying to move the units without realising the drum was still spinning - in a noisy computer room, you'd never hear it. You try to tip or move it, and the gyroscopic effect means it actually moves at right-angles to the direction to push it, and it's plenty heavy enough to do some serious damage to you, and itself... -- Andrew Gabriel Consultant Software Engineer ###### From: J. Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:59:00 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 46 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-887.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112914 In article , graymaus@yahoo.com says... > In article , J Clarke wrote: > > In article <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, > > don_chiasson@notmail.com says... > >> > >> "Dowe Keller" wrote in message > >> news:m34reoz7li.fsf@krikkit.127.0.0.1... > >> [snip...] > >> > >> > One thing I know for sure, the great majority of them had no throttle > >> > control. You controlled speed by intermittently cutting the ignition > >> > (I think). > >> > >> Surely not. More likely vary the prop pitch to change the power > >> level. There would be an automatic throttle to keep constant > >> motor speed. Just guessing. :-) > > > > Prop pitch? On a WWI combat aircraft? If you ever get a chance to > > examine one you will find that they have fixed-pitch wooden propellers. > > > > AFAIK , pitch came in about the start of WWII ( There was a story > somewhere about Polish flyers who moved to the RAF having difficulty > with variable-pitch props ). There was another story about how the US > had a improved propeller , but were slow to introduce it until they > discovered that was what was making the Zero better than the US > opposition . Lots of stories. In the US the major variants of the variable pitch propeller were the Hamilton-Standard Hydramatic and the electrically controlled Curtiss. The Hamilton design was also used by the Japanese and the Germans among others. It's possible that the Japanese has some sort of improved blade design but their pitch control was pretty much the same as everybody else was using. It was my understanding that the high performance of the Zero was the result of a high power-to-weight ratio achieved by using no armor and no self-sealing fuel tanks. -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 49 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090006 (Oort Gnus v0.06) Emacs/21.2 (i386-msvc-nt4.0.1381) Cancel-Lock: sha1:+x61bdqOOak0s8z6RvdAs5V9teg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 15:37:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.211.243.78 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1027784222 63.211.243.78 (Sat, 27 Jul 2002 08:37:02 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 08:37:02 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-west.nntpserver.com!hub1.meganetnews.com!nntpserver.com!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112912 ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes: > Starting with artillery tables, it's hard to decide which general > area of engineering has taken up more CPU time within the realm of > a.f.c (i.e. 20 years ago). I believe it was McDonnell Douglas that > unloaded 6 high end IBM 91 or 95 or 195s in the early 70's at a time > that I was still mightily impressed with the 85. I guess that old > Nastran code could really crunch through the CPU cycles. slightly related http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#13 Airspeed Semantics, was: not quite an sr-71, was: Re: jet in IBM ad? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#boyd when i did stint at boeing for the BCS (boeing computing system/services) startup (was one of the first couple dozen employees) ... renton had a really large datacenter ... joke about there constantly being 2-3 360/65s boxed in the hallways waiting staging for installation on the machine room floor. for disaster recovery purposes, all of renton data center was later duplicated in everett (one of the scenarios is mud-slide down the nearby mountain; which they take seriously ... some of the small towns nearer the mountain have sirens and drills). one story they told is that the day after the 360 announcement ... boeing walked into their local salesman and placed an initial order for something like twenty 360/65s (actually would have been 360/60s on announcement day). his commission exceeded the top executive salary that year ... and as a result the next year corporate hdqtrs created the quota plan (rather than straight commission). That year, his commission also exceeded the top xecutive salary ... and they up'ed his quota again. He then left and formed his own computer consulting and services company (which much later got bought by GM, and then he formed a new computer consulting and services company and also ran for president). random refs: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#32 Roads as Runways Was: Re: BA Solve http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#130 early hardware http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#66 360 Architecture, Multics, ... was (Re: X86 ultimate CISC? No.) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#8 "HAL's Legacy and the Vision of 2001: A Space Odyssey" http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#9 "HAL's Legacy and the Vision of 2001: A Space Odyssey" http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#23 Linux IA-64 interrupts [was Re: Itanium benchmarks ...] http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#56 YKYBHTLW.... http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#55 TSS/360 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#30 Computers in Science Fiction http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#22 Computer Terminal Design Over the Years -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 27 Jul 2002 17:44:44 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027791884 13376 134.117.136.30 (27 Jul 2002 17:44:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 2002 17:44:44 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112919 Anne & Lynn Wheeler (lynn@garlic.com) writes: > ... > one story they told is that the day after the 360 announcement > ... boeing walked into their local salesman and placed an initial > order for something like twenty 360/65s (actually would have been > 360/60s on announcement day). his commission exceeded the top > executive salary that year ... and as a result the next year corporate > hdqtrs created the quota plan (rather than straight commission). That > year, his commission also exceeded the top xecutive salary ... and > they up'ed his quota again. He then left and formed his own computer > consulting and services company (which much later got bought by GM, > and then he formed a new computer consulting and services company and > also ran for president). ... Ross Perot (sp?) was an IBM salesman? I'm, ummm, astounded! B-) ###### From: itsy bitsy meowbot <53ab2750@meowing.net> Organization: a tyranny of meowing fascist censor cabalists User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.1b) Gecko/20020720 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 8 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 17:49:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.154.73.132 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc03.gnilink.net 1027792184 141.154.73.132 (Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:49:44 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 13:49:44 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc03.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112929 Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: > Gloster, as in Gloster Meteor? What became of that outfit? > (I don't DubDubDub lately.) Merged into Hawker Siddeley, which in turn merged into BAE (just like almost everyone else). ###### From: Mike Ross Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Message-ID: <3uo5kuk8q591ov5cu1p8sloqrdur7horir@4ax.com> References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 33 Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:14:33 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.108.223.167 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.nyc.rr.com 1027793673 66.108.223.167 (Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:14:33 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:14:33 EDT Organization: Road Runner - NYC Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone.rdc-nyc.rr.com!news-out.nyc.rr.com!twister.nyc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112968 On 26 Jul 2002 22:09:35 -0700, Dowe Keller wrote: >stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) writes: > >> On 26 Jul 2002 17:44:58 GMT, greymaus wrote: > >> We do talk a lot about aircraft machinery on here, don't we?? :-) > >I believe that interests in some subjects, predisposes people to be >interested in other areas. > >For instance, most computer wonks are also interested in one or more >of the following subjects: > >Electronics, science, math, science-fiction (generally hard SF more >than space operas), and aviation. > >These I believe are interest that are strongly tied together. There >are cultural aspects as well, such as a love of Monty Python or HHGG, >but I believe there is more than cultural influences going on behind >these interests. Interesting observation, with which I would agree. I would also add to the list, Paganism and BDSM... amazing how many folks I know are hackers *and* science fiction buffs *and* Pagan *and* kinky! Seems to remember reading something by ?ESR? that made similar connections. Mike http://www.corestore.org Rangers Catering Corps - 'we boil for the One, we fry for the One' ###### Message-ID: <3D43013E.8A290560@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <4b5c88f0a3dave_daniels@argonet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.237.69.162 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc53 1027794321 12.237.69.162 (Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:25:21 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:25:21 GMT Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:25:21 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc53.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112952 Dave Daniels wrote: > > In article , > Stan Barr wrote: > > We do talk a lot about aircraft machinery on here, don't we?? :-) > > Well, I'm not complaining! > > I recall that it says in the Jargon File that there seems to be a > lot of programmers who are musicians, more than you would expect > to see in a random group of people. Perhaps there is a second > correlation between programmers and an interest in aircraft and > flying? > Psychology experiments have shown that children who are exposed to music education very early...have improved aptitude for mathematics later on. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3D4302DE.394E93F2@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.237.69.162 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net 1027794737 12.237.69.162 (Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:32:17 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:32:17 GMT Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:32:17 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!prodigy.*.com!prodigy.com!enews.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!usc.edu!attla2!ip.att.net!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112959 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > Starting with artillery tables, it's hard to decide which general > area of engineering has taken up more CPU time within the realm of > a.f.c (i.e. 20 years ago). I believe it was McDonnell Douglas that > unloaded 6 high end IBM 91 or 95 or 195s in the early 70's at a time > that I was still mightily impressed with the 85. I guess that old > Nastran code could really crunch through the CPU cycles. > Reminds me of a story recounted by Konrad Zuse in his autobiography. Zuse was working in an aircraft factory at the time...while developing his electomechanical computers on his own. He talked with his manager at the factory about how useful his computer would be to the aircraft industry. The manager said something to the effect of...Germany already built the best aircraft in the world, and he (the manager) did *not* see any need to calculate further... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3D4306B7.20A3FF10@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.237.69.162 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net 1027795722 12.237.69.162 (Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:48:42 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:48:42 GMT Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:48:42 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!usc.edu!attla2!ip.att.net!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112957 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > > Anne & Lynn Wheeler (lynn@garlic.com) writes: > > > ... > > one story they told is that the day after the 360 announcement > > ... boeing walked into their local salesman and placed an initial > > order for something like twenty 360/65s (actually would have been > > 360/60s on announcement day). his commission exceeded the top > > executive salary that year ... and as a result the next year corporate > > hdqtrs created the quota plan (rather than straight commission). That > > year, his commission also exceeded the top xecutive salary ... and > > they up'ed his quota again. He then left and formed his own computer > > consulting and services company (which much later got bought by GM, > > and then he formed a new computer consulting and services company and > > also ran for president). > ... > > Ross Perot (sp?) was an IBM salesman? I'm, ummm, astounded! B-) > Yes. He went to the Naval Academy in the U.S., and served in the Navy. He left to sell computers for IBM. He founded EDS when he was on hiatus from IBM because he had maxed out his quota. In the beginning, he had to call *many* companies offering EDS services before one said yes. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: David Powell Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 21:01:07 +0100 Organization: Nextra UK Lines: 25 Message-ID: <1vu5ku4d9jctiuad28al7u4jpu3rmkm3p5@4ax.com> References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <3d427871$0$8514$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com> Reply-To: ddotpowell@icuknet.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: 230.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: thorium.cix.co.uk 1027800283 25687 212.35.235.230 (27 Jul 2002 20:04:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@net.nextra.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 20:04:43 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!shale.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!peernews.cix.co.uk!news.nextra.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112962 In article <3d427871$0$8514$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>, "Conrad Scott" in alt.folklore.computers wrote: >"Kelli Halliburton" >> "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote in >message >> > Ya, at end of shift, the operators were really torqued. >> >> There was a lot of foot pounding going on. > >LOL! > >Best start to the day I've had for a long time. > You didn't have a moment of inertia before starting work? Regards, David P. > ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:43:47 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-129-123.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: paris.btinternet.com 1027856627 18426 213.1.129.123 (28 Jul 2002 11:43:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:43:47 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.online.be!opentransit.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112932 "J. Clarke" wrote in message news:ahucg1013k@enews2.newsguy.com... [SNIP] > It's possible that the Japanese has some sort of improved blade design > but their pitch control was pretty much the same as everybody else was > using. It was my understanding that the high performance of the Zero > was the result of a high power-to-weight ratio achieved by using no > armor and no self-sealing fuel tanks. Pah ! Armor is for wusses ! AFAIK they also used weird & wonderful alloys. For some reason I'm thinking that they used lots of magnesium too. Cheers, Rupert ###### Message-ID: <3D4437CA.EA29C5F8@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 61 Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:31:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 158.252.49.75 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1027881089 158.252.49.75 (Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:31:29 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:31:29 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!5cd49daf!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112971 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) writes: > > > > I've mentioned before the large multi-platter Bryant disk that was > > intended to be deployed in the Nimrod aircraft. This was known as "Snow > > White's Coffin" because it was in a glass cabinet that allowed sight of > > the multiple platters. Apparently it caused problems through the > > gyroscopic effect, making the aircraft very hard to manoeuvre, and was > > luckily overtaken by technological progress. > > Now here's another example where keeping the old hands for their > experience and wisdom would've paid off. In WW 1, there were > fighter aircraft in which the radial engine actually _rotated_ > at propeller speed, (ie. the crankshaft was stationary, the cylinders > turned). Nifty engineering trick for air-cooling the motor, but not > so great in certain dogfight situations. > > In case you think that this lunatic idea died out, (along with some > pilots), there's a museum, (OK, collection of mechanical junk), just > south of Ettlingen in Germany which had a _motorcycle_ with a radial > engine in its _front wheel_ ! Try steering that sucker at anything > above 20 kph. You can still see some of these flying at the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome in eastern NY state about half way between Albany and NYC. They put on a show Saturday's and Sunday's for about half the year (the summer half :-) I can recommend it! As to large disk platters, the G-20's at CMU had two large multiple platter drives with windows so you could see the platters. The platters were larger than two feet diameter at least. The heads "flew" but only due to an external source of compressed air, which failed once with the expected results. I do not recall whether the heads were fixed or movable although I think the latter. The drive was marked Control Data but whether they built it or just remarked it (these were Bendix G-20's, and CDC bought Bendix computer) from Bendix or some other vendor, I don't know. I posted a query on this group some years ago about these and got back a perfect description of them from an ex CDC employee until he mentioned that the spindle was horizontal. These units had a vertical spindle. I last saw them in private hands (along with the G-20's) in 1976. They were not operating at the time. Chris AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ > > > I think that all beverage alcohol should be prohibited within 100km > of engineering schools. ###### Message-ID: <3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:41:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 158.252.49.75 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1027881700 158.252.49.75 (Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:41:40 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:41:40 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112970 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > "Rupert Pigott" (dark.try-eating-this.b00ng@btinternet.com) writes: > > > ... > > Long time since I studied aeroengines so my memory could well have > > let me down... I do remember reading about Gnome-Rhone's with a > > growing sense of horror and amazement. > > Funny, that's what the pilots who landed thought too. As for the > rest, there were no cockpit sound recorders at that time. Another "interesting" side effect of rotary aircraft engines is that they were lubricated with castor oil. Now, recall why your mother gave you castor oil back when you were a child. The pilots had a constant state of "the runs". That "white scarf" people associate with W.W.I aviators was used to wipe the stuff off your goggles and face (and maybe to clean up from the "runs" as well but I've never seen that documented ;-) (BTW, if your mother never gave you castor oil, you may be too young for this ng :-) Chris AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 28 Jul 2002 20:40:11 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027888811 27156 134.117.136.30 (28 Jul 2002 20:40:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jul 2002 20:40:11 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112981 "Rupert Pigott" (dark.try-eating-this.b00ng@btinternet.com) writes: > > Pah ! Armor is for wusses ! > > AFAIK they also used weird & wonderful alloys. For some reason > I'm thinking that they used lots of magnesium too. They couldn't get nickel from Russia or Sudbury. B-) No, seriously, (and I do take this newsgroup too seriously), if you're gonna do the kamekazi number, magnesium is a hell of a flame-out as all high school chemists know. Harder to extinguish than phosphorus. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 28 Jul 2002 20:43:53 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 6 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027889033 27424 134.117.136.30 (28 Jul 2002 20:43:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jul 2002 20:43:53 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112978 jchausler (jchausler@earthlink.net) writes: > (BTW, if your mother never gave you castor oil, you may > be too young for this ng :-) Theory B: My mother liked me. ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:53:09 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-132-183.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: paris.btinternet.com 1027889589 8706 213.1.132.183 (28 Jul 2002 20:53:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 20:53:09 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112980 "jchausler" wrote in message news:3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net... [SNIP] > Another "interesting" side effect of rotary aircraft engines is that > they were lubricated with castor oil. Now, recall why your I actually lubricate the springs on my Citroen 2CV with Castor Oil. Disgusting stuff, the very idea of ingesting that stuff fills me with horror. When I bought it (from the chemist) they gave me a really funny look... 1 litre of castor oil is probably enough to give the entire town I live in the runs. I took care to assure them that I was oiling my car with it and not planning on causing discomfort to the population of Royal Tunbridge Wells. Cheers, Rupert ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 28 Jul 2002 21:17:18 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027891038 29850 134.117.136.30 (28 Jul 2002 21:17:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jul 2002 21:17:18 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!dca6-feed2.news.algx.net!allegiance!nntp.abs.net!news-peer-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112979 "Rupert Pigott" (dark.try-eating-this.b00ng@btinternet.com) writes: > "jchausler" wrote in message > news:3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net... > [SNIP] >> Another "interesting" side effect of rotary aircraft engines is that >> they were lubricated with castor oil. Now, recall why your > > I actually lubricate the springs on my Citroen 2CV with Castor ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I have more respect for [words fail me, check out the lyrics of Alice's Restaurant about the time the judge asks "Kid, have you rehabilitated yourself?" to get the gist] than somebody who actually drives one of these grotesque vehicles. [Yet, he can spell 'computer' B-] ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 22:21:04 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-132-183.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: paris.btinternet.com 1027894864 16885 213.1.132.183 (28 Jul 2002 22:21:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 22:21:04 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!isdnet!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112982 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote in message news:ai1n0u$t4q$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > "Rupert Pigott" (dark.try-eating-this.b00ng@btinternet.com) writes: > > "jchausler" wrote in message > > news:3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net... > > [SNIP] > >> Another "interesting" side effect of rotary aircraft engines is that > >> they were lubricated with castor oil. Now, recall why your > > > > I actually lubricate the springs on my Citroen 2CV with Castor > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > I have more respect for [words fail me, check out the lyrics of Alice's > Restaurant about the time the judge asks "Kid, have you rehabilitated > yourself?" to get the gist] than somebody who actually drives one of > these grotesque vehicles. I'm a pervert. Despite being a limey francophobe I do love Citroens. 2CVs do have a number of saving graces : 1) They are very cheap 2nd hand and their resale value does not drop 2) They are very cheap to run. (Cheap insurance, cheap road tax, cheap parts, cheap labour - they're easy to work on). 3) They are 4 door convertibles by default, which is lovely in summer. 4) Once you've got the carb & ignition sorted they are very reliable in a temperate climate. I think Montreal's weather would render a 2CV practically useless, too hot in summer and way too cold in winter, although they are meant to have exceptionally good traction on Snow... Haven't tried this yet. :P 5) They have very high ground clearance and a very supple suspension which means you can do light-off road work (at speed, I've tried that lots). They have their share of bad points too. The most difficult to overlook being the fact that you're pretty much dead if you have a heavy impact. That adds to the "thrill" factor. :) Cheers, Rupert ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 23:32:35 +0100 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Lines: 20 Message-ID: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-Trace: betanews.demon.co.uk 1027897203 5557 193.237.4.110 (28 Jul 2002 23:00:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 23:00:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!news.net.uni-c.dk!logbridge.uoregon.edu!kibo.news.demon.net!mutlu.news.demon.net!demon!betanews.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112976 According to Rupert Pigott : > They have their share of bad points too. The most difficult to > overlook being the fact that you're pretty much dead if you have a > heavy impact. That adds to the "thrill" factor. :) For me the main "bad point" of a 2CV is the reported 0-60 time of 32 seconds (!!!) My current car's an Audi 80 which is a big heavy lump compared to the 101bhp 1.6 that powers it and I consider its resulting 12 or 13 seconds to hit 60 to be too slow, and I'm not even that much of a speed freak now I've entered old- agedom (well, mid '30s) OTOH, the brief time I had a Calibra Turbo with its 0-60 time of ~6 seconds was enough for me to decide it was a bloody liability. Chris. -- "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84 http://cbh.paunix.org My stuff, including genealogy, other things, etc http://www.paunix.org SDF Public Access UNIX: UNIX accounts and webspace! ###### Message-ID: <3D41F11D.B8A26A4B@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:01:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.158.74.227 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc02.gnilink.net 1027904499 141.158.74.227 (Sun, 28 Jul 2002 21:01:39 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 21:01:39 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112986 Chris Hedley wrote: > > For me the main "bad point" of a 2CV is the reported 0-60 time > of 32 seconds (!!!) My current car's an Audi 80 which is a big > heavy lump compared to the 101bhp 1.6 that powers it and I > consider its resulting 12 or 13 seconds to hit 60 to be too slow, > and I'm not even that much of a speed freak now I've entered old- > agedom (well, mid 30s) My parents provided me with two cars before I left the nest so to speak. One of them required about thirty five seconds to get up to sixty miles per hour (Volkswagon Dasher (diesel)). The other one could get up to sixty somewhat faster, but once you were there, you quickly realized what a bad idea it was and slowed back down (Jeep CJ5, 3-speed). -- Foo. ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:50:22 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 47 Message-ID: References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-129-217.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: knossos.btinternet.com 1027907422 25365 213.1.129.217 (29 Jul 2002 01:50:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:50:22 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113007 "Chris Hedley" wrote in message news:3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet... > According to Rupert Pigott : > > They have their share of bad points too. The most difficult to > > overlook being the fact that you're pretty much dead if you have a > > heavy impact. That adds to the "thrill" factor. :) > > For me the main "bad point" of a 2CV is the reported 0-60 time > of 32 seconds (!!!) My current car's an Audi 80 which is a big Err, doesn't feel that slow to me... Haven't done any major tweaking on it, it's pretty much a stock 603cc. Driving such a low powered car is actually quite a bit more interesting than driving an ABS equipped hosebeast. For a start you have to think ahead more, you have to use gears far more precisely, you need to apply better observation too. It's a different mode of driving, it's not just reacting to what's around you, it's reading the road/pedestrians/lunatics and responding about 2-5 seconds before stuff happens. You really have to read the road surface/gradient and what the engine is doing too, all by feel. Kinda fun, I feel very isolated and unhappy in most modern cars. Not saying I'd drive a Caterham by choice though, I would be lethal. :) > heavy lump compared to the 101bhp 1.6 that powers it and I > consider its resulting 12 or 13 seconds to hit 60 to be too slow, > and I'm not even that much of a speed freak now I've entered old- > agedom (well, mid '30s) 603cc 2CV was rated at around 29bhp. IIRC mild tweaks can take them to ~35bhp, they rev fast for such an old design. There are a number of popular turbo mods, some of which take the them up to & beyond 65bhp. 2CVs are quite light so those things really do motor. :P > OTOH, the brief time I had a Calibra Turbo with its 0-60 time > of ~6 seconds was enough for me to decide it was a bloody liability. I've driven some ~6sec cars before. They were boring as hell, I felt very isolated and unhappy behind the wheel and I drove way too fast and way too smoothly for anyone to notice. :P Cheers, Rupert ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 28 Jul 2002 21:03:13 -0600 Organization: New Mexico State University Lines: 16 Message-ID: <1bsn23dymm.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 1027911790 20687 128.123.64.113 (29 Jul 2002 03:03:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Jul 2002 03:03:10 GMT User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!nunki.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112991 (I don't know if I 've got the attribution right, or not). > > Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) writes: > > > >> Wasn't it the old Bryant disk drives that had three or four foot > >> platters that spun in the *vertical* direction??? These supposedly > >> had enough momentum...that some platter got away and cut things > >> in half!!! I saw the hole in the side of the building where a Weyerhaeuser circular saw blade came loose once... -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 18 Message-ID: <8_c19.350903$Bt1.17637499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:15:16 CDT X-Trace: sv3-s3DNrEZQ+/g/aXkAp++X35EwDSyeP092fi4SlnlwEGmvqEyT1zZYreX0d9Qdjf5B3zqJ5ZrXIOtvV/V!2dqxcaXdCXuQ7jBZSpHFQlByoZUNCpnYRkYsao78kcZTdqVUZIpxMdNrYQjGQN+UbSIP0QPi+GBl!bGVfrt7ua93P7q9pyNYdFaXo0zg= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:15:16 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!jfk3-feed1.news.algx.net!ord2-feed1.news.algx.net!allegiance!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112985 In article , Rupert Pigott wrote: >I've driven some ~6sec cars before. They were boring as hell, >I felt very isolated and unhappy behind the wheel and I drove >way too fast and way too smoothly for anyone to notice. :P My current car does 0-60 in the high 6's or low 7's. Maybe drivers are better elsewhere, but in Austin, TX,I like being able to get out of the way of of the lunatic drivers around here. It's for the same reason I don't feel safe in SUV's. If some idiot pulls out in front of me or something, I want to be able to avoid the accident. Of course, good tires and brakes are at the very least as important as the acceleration. -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### From: J. Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:33:12 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 55 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-803.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-west.nntpserver.com!hub1.meganetnews.com!nntpserver.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!feed.newsfeeds.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!199.106.71.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113001 In article , dark.try-eating- this.b00ng@btinternet.com says... > "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote in message > news:ai1n0u$t4q$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > > "Rupert Pigott" (dark.try-eating-this.b00ng@btinternet.com) writes: > > > "jchausler" wrote in message > > > news:3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net... > > > [SNIP] > > >> Another "interesting" side effect of rotary aircraft engines is that > > >> they were lubricated with castor oil. Now, recall why your > > > > > > I actually lubricate the springs on my Citroen 2CV with Castor > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > I have more respect for [words fail me, check out the lyrics of Alice's > > Restaurant about the time the judge asks "Kid, have you rehabilitated > > yourself?" to get the gist] than somebody who actually drives one of > > these grotesque vehicles. > > I'm a pervert. Despite being a limey francophobe I do love Citroens. > > 2CVs do have a number of saving graces : > 1) They are very cheap 2nd hand and their resale value does not drop > 2) They are very cheap to run. (Cheap insurance, cheap road tax, cheap > parts, cheap labour - they're easy to work on). > 3) They are 4 door convertibles by default, which is lovely in summer. > 4) Once you've got the carb & ignition sorted they are very reliable > in a temperate climate. I think Montreal's weather would render a 2CV > practically useless, too hot in summer and way too cold in winter, > although they are meant to have exceptionally good traction on Snow... > Haven't tried this yet. :P > 5) They have very high ground clearance and a very supple suspension > which means you can do light-off road work (at speed, I've tried that > lots). > > They have their share of bad points too. The most difficult to > overlook being the fact that you're pretty much dead if you have a > heavy impact. That adds to the "thrill" factor. :) I recall that many years ago, in response to a letter from someone who asked "what is the best car to have in New York", the editors of Road & Track replied "the _best_ car to have in NY is someone else's. The second best is a Citroen 2CV Corrugated Van". They cited the advantages you describe and added "and nobody can tell if you've wrecked it". > > Cheers, > Rupert > > > -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 29 Jul 2002 17:07:00 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027962420 12790 134.117.136.30 (29 Jul 2002 17:07:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Jul 2002 17:07:00 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113004 J. Clarke (nospam1@nospam.invalid) writes: > > I recall that many years ago, in response to a letter from someone who > asked "what is the best car to have in New York", the editors of Road & > Track replied "the _best_ car to have in NY is someone else's. The > second best is a Citroen 2CV Corrugated Van". They cited the advantages > you describe and added "and nobody can tell if you've wrecked it". LOL, tears running down my cheeks! I missed that issue. But rarely have truer words been printed. ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:11:59 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <8_c19.350903$Bt1.17637499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-202-232.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: paris.btinternet.com 1027962719 5224 213.122.202.232 (29 Jul 2002 17:11:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:11:59 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!isdnet!btnet-peer1!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113003 "MSCHAEF.COM" wrote in message news:8_c19.350903$Bt1.17637499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > In article , > Rupert Pigott wrote: > > >I've driven some ~6sec cars before. They were boring as hell, > >I felt very isolated and unhappy behind the wheel and I drove > >way too fast and way too smoothly for anyone to notice. :P > > My current car does 0-60 in the high 6's or low 7's. Maybe > drivers are better elsewhere, but in Austin, TX,I like being > able to get out of the way of of the lunatic drivers around > here. It's for the same reason I don't feel safe in SUV's. If > some idiot pulls out in front of me or something, I want to > be able to avoid the accident. Of course, good tires and > brakes are at the very least as important as the acceleration. I have been hearing this kind of justification for years but have yet to see any good come of it. How in the hell can changing the energy levels quickly help in such a situation ? If you brake hard without looking first the chances are some dude will run into the back of you (especially the case in the USA where people drive nose to tail), if you accelerate hard you probably have to swerve hard (again little space in USA traffic) so you'll sideswipe someone. I saw that sort of near-miss happen all the time in the 'States because people rely on power & brakes rather than good observation & defensive driving. Also seen it lots here. :/ Personally I haven't really found that ABS or lots of power are necessary in those situations. Reading the road is far more important. Afterall, in order to take safe evasive action you still have to do your observation. Horsepower, ABS and luck don't really make a good substitute for defensive driving. Cheers, Rupert ###### From: J. Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:13:55 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1bsn23dymm.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-496.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112999 In article <1bsn23dymm.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu says... > (I don't know if I 've got the attribution right, or not). > > > > Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) writes: > > > > > >> Wasn't it the old Bryant disk drives that had three or four foot > > >> platters that spun in the *vertical* direction??? These supposedly > > >> had enough momentum...that some platter got away and cut things > > >> in half!!! > > I saw the hole in the side of the building where a Weyerhaeuser > circular saw blade came loose once... Was before my time, but old timers at Hamilton-Standard tell the tale of the time that the 54H60 prototype (4 aluminum blades, 10.5 feet diameter IIRC--it's been a long time, I forget what it weighs but it's not light, and it can absorb the full output of a 4000 horsepower gas turbine, which it was doing at the time) came adrift from its shaft in the test cell (heavy reinforced concrete walls able to contain a loose propeller blade or a blown up turbine) climbed the wall, cut through the roof, rolled along the top of the building, jumped down into the parking lot, chewed up a few cars on its way to the fence, cut the fence, crossed the highway, and ran out of energy just before it got to a parked airliner at the airport. -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### From: stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Organization: Metropolis Grafix Reply-To: stanb@dial.pipex.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.2 UNIX) Date: 29 Jul 2002 17:31:21 GMT Lines: 30 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62-190-202-55.pdu.pipex.net X-Trace: 1027963881 news.dial.pipex.com 8512 62.190.202.55 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-x2.support.nl!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!lnewspeer00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewsifeed00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:112990 On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:50:22 +0000 (UTC), Rupert Pigott wrote: >"Chris Hedley" wrote in message >news:3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet... >> According to Rupert Pigott : >> > They have their share of bad points too. The most difficult to >> > overlook being the fact that you're pretty much dead if you have a >> > heavy impact. That adds to the "thrill" factor. :) >> >> For me the main "bad point" of a 2CV is the reported 0-60 time >> of 32 seconds (!!!) My current car's an Audi 80 which is a big > >Err, doesn't feel that slow to me... Haven't done any major >tweaking on it, it's pretty much a stock 603cc. Driving such >a low powered car is actually quite a bit more interesting >than driving an ABS equipped hosebeast. For a start you have >to think ahead more, you have to use gears far more precisely, >you need to apply better observation too. I've travelled may thousands of miles in my friends 2CVs and one of the most annoying things is when you just settled into a nice 70+ mph cruise and you come up behind smething like a Merc or BMW doing 65...you _can't_ get past...you don't have any acceleration left, and they won't let you past anyway! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 29 Jul 02 12:15:39 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 28 Message-ID: <793.975T1955T7354868@kltpzyxm.invalid> References: <3d427871$0$8514$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com> <1vu5ku4d9jctiuad28al7u4jpu3rmkm3p5@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-358.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!feed.news.nacamar.de!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!newsfeed.nyc.globix.net!newsfeed.sjc.globix.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!199.106.71.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113047 In article <1vu5ku4d9jctiuad28al7u4jpu3rmkm3p5@4ax.com> ddotpowell@icuknospamet.co.uk (David Powell) writes: >In article <3d427871$0$8514$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>, >"Conrad Scott" in alt.folklore.computers >wrote: > >>"Kelli Halliburton" >> >>> "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote in >>> >>>> Ya, at end of shift, the operators were really torqued. >>> >>> There was a lot of foot pounding going on. >> >>LOL! >> >>Best start to the day I've had for a long time. > >You didn't have a moment of inertia before starting work? Every couple has its moment. -- cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) I'm really at moc.subyks if you read it the right way. Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. ###### Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:02:50 +0200 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Message-ID: <20020729190250.593f0a77.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net> X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.0 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd4.6) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Organization: Wanadoo NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Jul 2002 05:20:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: rot2-p0457.dial.wanadoo.nl X-Trace: DXC=\Mg3>V>810e7HkO3GOn_Jl1`\LnN2UYYa>8XU<@CAYCdBn?eXoXMn:ba9481C=e>Ki X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!news2.euro.net!postnews1.euro.net!news.wanadoo.nl!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113053 On Sun, 28 Jul 2002 22:21:04 +0000 (UTC) "Rupert Pigott" wrote: RP> 1) They are very cheap 2nd hand and their resale value does not drop Only because there is nowhere for it to drop to! They are like a Ural in this respect - and many others, but the Ural is more fun :) -- C:>WIN | Directable Mirrors The computer obeys and wins. |A Better Way To Focus The Sun You lose and Bill collects. | licenses available - see: | http://www.sohara.org/ ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 29 Jul 2002 20:03:03 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027972983 26130 134.117.136.30 (29 Jul 2002 20:03:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Jul 2002 20:03:03 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113048 greymaus (graymaus@yahoo.com) writes: > > I don't drive one, but I love the concept, specially after watching > a gazillion clones-of-each-other driving by. Bingo. I used to be a car nut, but except for the exceptionally ugly ones, (the latest Cadillacs come to mind), I can't tell them apart. And don't ya just love those fancy trunk lid handles that 80% of the gutless wonders have? Aerodynamic downforce at 40 kph I'm sure! However, they each have more computer power than a 6809. B-) ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:38:24 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net> User-Agent: tin/1.5.12-20020427 ("Sugar") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.6-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!feed.textport.net!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113056 Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: > Bingo. I used to be a car nut, but except for the exceptionally > ugly ones, (the latest Cadillacs come to mind), I can't tell them > apart. And don't ya just love those fancy trunk lid handles that > 80% of the gutless wonders have? Aerodynamic downforce at 40 kph > I'm sure! However, they each have more computer power than a 6809. > My current place of employment's responsible for a lot of the networking and RTOS software in various cars. When one particular model (let's just call it a powerful front-wheel drive sedan from a Swedish company that's now part of Ford's Premiar Automotive Group) was announced in '98 there were 18 CPUs *that we knew of* running our OS and CAN layer -- at least one of them was a 68K (68376, IIRC) and a whole pile of 68HC08s, 68HC11s, 68HC12s, even an SH2 or two. Of course, they were just the CPUs connected to the CAN buses. The radio had at least another two, there were various baby micros in obscure parts of the body electronics, so all in all there were probably something like 30 CPUs in the car.... pete -- pete@fenelon.com "I... will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season" ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:06:37 +0100 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Lines: 54 Message-ID: References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-Trace: betanews.demon.co.uk 1027977886 16037 193.237.4.110 (29 Jul 2002 21:24:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:24:46 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!skynet.be!skynet.be!kibo.news.demon.net!mutlu.news.demon.net!demon!betanews.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113027 According to Rupert Pigott : > Err, doesn't feel that slow to me... Haven't done any major > tweaking on it, it's pretty much a stock 603cc. Driving such > a low powered car is actually quite a bit more interesting > than driving an ABS equipped hosebeast. For a start you have > to think ahead more, you have to use gears far more precisely, > you need to apply better observation too. It's probably not an accurate figure: it's some years since I was a motoring nut so I can't be certain of its accuracy, and the "official" figures are always quite conservative (I've found that most cars I've driven accelerate about 20% faster than the specs suggest) But it is a little slow for my liking! > It's a different mode of driving, it's not just reacting to > what's around you, it's reading the road/pedestrians/lunatics > and responding about 2-5 seconds before stuff happens. You > really have to read the road surface/gradient and what the > engine is doing too, all by feel. Kinda fun, I feel very > isolated and unhappy in most modern cars. Not saying I'd > drive a Caterham by choice though, I would be lethal. :) When I started driving, the only car I had access to was my Mum's 850cc (I think) VW Polo... a look under the bonnet showed that it wasn't just the engine capacity that limited the power, the bore on the carb was absolutely microscopic. I hated the thing; it got really unhappy if it was presented with anything steeper than about a 1:100 gradient! > 603cc 2CV was rated at around 29bhp. IIRC mild tweaks can > take them to ~35bhp, they rev fast for such an old design. > There are a number of popular turbo mods, some of which > take the them up to & beyond 65bhp. 2CVs are quite light > so those things really do motor. :P The idea of a 2CV turbo frightens me! Although I've heard that some of the more insane members of the car modding fringe have put V8s in an otherwise standard 2CV which is not something I'd want to experience! > I've driven some ~6sec cars before. They were boring as hell, > I felt very isolated and unhappy behind the wheel and I drove > way too fast and way too smoothly for anyone to notice. :P Most cars are indeed dull. OTOH, I find that I have to use so much concentration to anticipate the antics of other motorists that an overly interesting car might not be a good thing! Chris. -- "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84 http://cbh.paunix.org My stuff, including genealogy, other things, etc http://www.paunix.org SDF Public Access UNIX: UNIX accounts and webspace! ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 29 Jul 2002 21:48:58 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027979338 4033 134.117.136.30 (29 Jul 2002 21:48:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Jul 2002 21:48:58 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!easynews!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113043 Pete Fenelon (pete@fenelon.com) writes: > ... > Of course, they were just the CPUs connected to the CAN buses. The > radio had at least another two, there were various baby micros in > obscure parts of the body electronics, so all in all there were > probably something like 30 CPUs in the car.... Not a clue what a CAN bus is. Counting all the CPUs in my house (6800 Heathkit, 4 XTs, the AT I'm using, the AMD with the wonky CPU fan, the Trendata 4000 with 8???, the microwave and VCR) can't say I have 30 CPUs. But then, I can't afford a Volvo. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 29 Jul 2002 21:56:19 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027979779 4619 134.117.136.30 (29 Jul 2002 21:56:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Jul 2002 21:56:19 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113046 Chris Hedley (cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk) writes: > ... > Most cars are indeed dull. OTOH, I find that I have to use > so much concentration to anticipate the antics of other > motorists that an overly interesting car might not be a good > thing! Circa 30 years ago, I heaved my collection of Road & Track magazines. Little did I know that they'd be fodder for a.f.c ! So there was this guy who put a R.R. Merlin in a car. Whether he got 6 miles per gallon, or 6 gallons per mile, or 6 tires per day are lost in the fog that constitutes my memory. But even on steep hills, given traction, he could "pass with authority". ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <8_c19.350903$Bt1.17637499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 45 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:04:19 CDT X-Trace: sv3-k3NW7+1tI0LJP8jrEDMwV1DGJwkJI6jQmW7bR08AyEVP9VQKb1IBn5JTJGvVnbe3mLMzMlm59KJXON1!/0RfLoONLMmMwN9hAcPimKuCD34wdLcG7IiGSbm4G/ngiyhG+Wo7sjsPvGzfLR+Xv6DgoMXptluv!36IENFip4NsXcrri/+psffXqQw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:04:19 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113015 In article , Rupert Pigott wrote: >"MSCHAEF.COM" wrote in message >I have been hearing this kind of justification for years but >have yet to see any good come of it. How in the hell can >changing the energy levels quickly help in such a situation ? I'm not saying that I think people should drive like a lunatic to avoid accidents. My usual course of action is to drive roughly the speedlimit (maybe 2-3 over, tops), and stay the hell away from other cars as much as possible. Around other cars, my usual technique is to watch what they do and try to anticipate problem situations, which are _usually_ pretty obvious multiple seconds ahead of time. >If you brake hard without looking first the chances are some >dude will run into the back of you So you _look_ before you hit the brakes. >if you accelerate hard you probably have to swerve hard So you don't accelerate into the car ahead of you. >(again little space in USA traffic) So you look for the space without cars. >so you'll sideswipe someone. Once again... you _look_ before you change lanes. This is really not so hard. Look, I know you're advocating defensive driving. So do I, and in _most_ cases it's sufficient. However, _everything else being equal_, if I can open up additional options to stop, steer around, or accelerate past an unforseen threat to my life, property, or safety, that's my preference. I mean, driving an SUV as defensively as I can, if a deer jumps out in front of my car, a car pulls out of a hidden driveway or runs a light, my options are more limited in the SUV than they are being in a more performance oriented vehicle. -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:24:47 +0100 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-Trace: betanews.demon.co.uk 1027981805 20868 193.237.4.110 (29 Jul 2002 22:30:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:30:05 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!mutlu.news.demon.net!demon!betanews.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113026 According to Heinz W. Wiggeshoff : > So there was this guy who put a R.R. Merlin in a car. Whether he got > 6 miles per gallon, or 6 gallons per mile, or 6 tires per day are lost > in the fog that constitutes my memory. But even on steep hills, given > traction, he could "pass with authority". I recall that... fiasco, is probably the best word. It's almost passed into the realms of UL, but it appears that the car really existed, and most of the aggro seemed to revolve around the guy putting an RR badge on it and Rolls-Royce getting a bit upset. I remember reading an interview with the guy where he said some- thing to the effect of the theoretical top speed of his motor was in the region of 300mph... except for the minor point that the transmission would probably give up long before that sort of speed. As for fuel consumption; well, back to the infamous Calibra Turbo, it had one of them newfangled trip computer thingies installed, and the reported mpg figures were not something I wish to see again... about 18mpg with fairly "average" driving, dropping to pretty much zero with any sort of acceleration. That was *not* a cheap car to drive with petrol at UK prices. Wonderful gearbox it had, though, I loved the extra sixth gear (that was made for me, even before I drove it I kept trying to change into 6th with a normal 5-speed box, the potential nasty being with the Rover 214 I once owned where "reverse" was where one might expect 6th, fortunately they had some sort of inertia lock to stop it engaging!), shame that they were prone to breaking: the 18-month old model I had already had the usual knackered synchro on 2nd and 3rd. I think we've already done to death the fuel consumption of tanks, so I won't go back there! Chris. -- "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84 http://cbh.paunix.org My stuff, including genealogy, other things, etc http://www.paunix.org SDF Public Access UNIX: UNIX accounts and webspace! ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:35:15 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> User-Agent: tin/1.5.12-20020427 ("Sugar") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.6-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 14 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113058 Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: > > So there was this guy who put a R.R. Merlin in a car. Whether he got > 6 miles per gallon, or 6 gallons per mile, or 6 tires per day are lost > in the fog that constitutes my memory. But even on steep hills, given > traction, he could "pass with authority". RR gave him grief about his use of an RR radiator grille and emblem on the front of this magnificent beast..... pete -- pete@fenelon.com "I... will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season" ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 23:38:08 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: User-Agent: tin/1.5.12-20020427 ("Sugar") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.6-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed.news2me.com!sn-xit-05!sn-xit-01!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113059 Chris Hedley wrote: > According to Heinz W. Wiggeshoff : >> So there was this guy who put a R.R. Merlin in a car. Whether he got >> 6 miles per gallon, or 6 gallons per mile, or 6 tires per day are lost >> in the fog that constitutes my memory. But even on steep hills, given >> traction, he could "pass with authority". > > I recall that... fiasco, is probably the best word. It's almost > passed into the realms of UL, but it appears that the car really > existed, and most of the aggro seemed to revolve around the guy > putting an RR badge on it and Rolls-Royce getting a bit upset. Yep. Another interesting one was the guy who fitted a Merlin to the back of a Daimler Scout Car (little baby 4wd WW2 armoured car) and actually used it in the Brighton Speed Trials (and, I think, some other hillclimbs and sprints) in about '47. Oh, he took *all* the bodywork off, pretty much. I've got photographs of that beast somewhere. pete -- pete@fenelon.com "I... will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season" ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:57:08 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-204-155.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: paris.btinternet.com 1027990628 16865 213.122.204.155 (30 Jul 2002 00:57:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:57:08 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113050 "Stan Barr" wrote in message news:slrnak9v2e.l6q.stanb@citadel.metropolis.local... > On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:50:22 +0000 (UTC), Rupert Pigott > wrote: > >"Chris Hedley" wrote in message > >news:3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet... > >> According to Rupert Pigott : > >> > They have their share of bad points too. The most difficult to > >> > overlook being the fact that you're pretty much dead if you have a > >> > heavy impact. That adds to the "thrill" factor. :) > >> > >> For me the main "bad point" of a 2CV is the reported 0-60 time > >> of 32 seconds (!!!) My current car's an Audi 80 which is a big > > > >Err, doesn't feel that slow to me... Haven't done any major > >tweaking on it, it's pretty much a stock 603cc. Driving such > >a low powered car is actually quite a bit more interesting > >than driving an ABS equipped hosebeast. For a start you have > >to think ahead more, you have to use gears far more precisely, > >you need to apply better observation too. > > I've travelled may thousands of miles in my friends 2CVs and one of the > most annoying things is when you just settled into a nice 70+ mph cruise > and you come up behind smething like a Merc or BMW doing 65...you _can't_ > get past...you don't have any acceleration left, and they won't let > you past anyway! Yeah that is annoying. Mine's an old girl so I rarely take her above 65, bless her. The most irritating thing is when people seem to do *anything* to overtake your 2CV. People seem to get this thing into their head that because it's a 2CV it MUST be overtaken however dangerously - even if I'm driving on the speed limit. I think most of the sticky situations I've *nearly* been in have been caused by morons trying to overtake me into head on traffic. Cheers, Rupert ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:59:39 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-204-155.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: knossos.btinternet.com 1027990779 8847 213.122.204.155 (30 Jul 2002 00:59:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:59:39 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113061 "Chris Hedley" wrote in message news:toa4ia.8l1.ln@teabag.cbhnet... [SNIP] > The idea of a 2CV turbo frightens me! Although I've heard > that some of the more insane members of the car modding fringe > have put V8s in an otherwise standard 2CV which is not something > I'd want to experience! They won't be anywhere near "stock" if they have V8's in them. Citreon did a 650 *mumble* engine which could be put in. Also oversize barrels etc... The current cutting edge of 2CV lunacy seems to be the mid-engined ones - they use superbike engines... Cheers, Rupert ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 30 Jul 2002 01:26:58 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1027992418 27700 134.117.136.30 (30 Jul 2002 01:26:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Jul 2002 01:26:58 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!Quza.UK.peer!nntp.gblx.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113045 Pete Fenelon (pete@fenelon.com) writes: > > RR gave him grief about his use of an RR radiator grille and emblem > on the front of this magnificent beast..... Sure you're not thinking of the VW front hood works? How can market suits be so so stupid. ###### Message-ID: <3D435E33.40F5D6F@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 02:59:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.158.72.154 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1027997951 141.158.72.154 (Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:59:11 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:59:11 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113014 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > > Not a clue what a CAN bus is. [...] You've heard of LANs, You've heard of WANs, ... CAN is used in cars. Just kidding. Well, not really. CAN *IS* used in cars, but the 'C' stands for "controller." http://www.can-cia.org/can/ -- Foo. ###### From: "Nico de Jong" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Lines: 17 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:07:11 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.228.39.95 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uni2.dk X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1028014840 130.228.39.95 (Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:40:40 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:40:40 MET DST Organization: UNI2 Internet Kunde Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113037 > Chris Hedley (cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk) writes: > > > So there was this guy who put a R.R. Merlin in a car. Whether he got > 6 miles per gallon, or 6 gallons per mile, or 6 tires per day are lost > in the fog that constitutes my memory. But even on steep hills, given > traction, he could "pass with authority". When I was doing my conscription service, the Centurion tanks were still in service. They used 6 liters per kilometer. Now then what would that translate to in gallons / mile ? Thats about 1,4 gallon/km , which is about 2,1 gallons/mile, if my factors are ok. BTW, the start engine started a standard Morris Minor engine, which in turn started the Centurin engine. Nico ###### From: "Nico de Jong" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Lines: 19 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:12:01 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.228.39.95 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uni2.dk X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1028014840 130.228.39.95 (Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:40:40 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:40:40 MET DST Organization: UNI2 Internet Kunde Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.f.de.plusline.net!feed.news.nacamar.de!uninett.no!news.net.uni-c.dk!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113038 > "Chris Hedley" wrote in message > news:toa4ia.8l1.ln@teabag.cbhnet... > [SNIP] > > The idea of a 2CV turbo frightens me! Although I've heard > > that some of the more insane members of the car modding fringe > > have put V8s in an otherwise standard 2CV which is not something > > I'd want to experience! The following is NOT an UL. Some years ago, I saw an ingenious solution to a nasty problem (in TV). It was used in the woods of France, where many dirt paths are now narrow and so long, that a car cant turn around. The solution was to take 2 2CV's, cut them in half, and glue the two frontents together, back to back, so to say. The driver could then just change to the other driver seat, and drive back... Nico ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:44:24 +0100 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-Trace: betanews.demon.co.uk 1028023202 19046 193.237.4.110 (30 Jul 2002 10:00:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:00:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!fr.colt.net!peernews2.colt.net!colt.net!kibo.news.demon.net!mutlu.news.demon.net!demon!betanews.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113023 According to Nico de Jong : > > Chris Hedley (cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk) writes: That'd be Heinz: > > So there was this guy who put a R.R. Merlin in a car. Whether he got > > 6 miles per gallon, or 6 gallons per mile, or 6 tires per day are lost > > in the fog that constitutes my memory. But even on steep hills, given > > traction, he could "pass with authority". > > When I was doing my conscription service, the Centurion tanks were still in > service. They used 6 liters per kilometer. Now then what would that > translate to in gallons / mile ? Thats about 1,4 gallon/km , which is about > 2,1 gallons/mile, if my factors are ok. > BTW, the start engine started a standard Morris Minor engine, which in turn > started the Centurin engine. I used to be quite interested in tanks when I was younger: ISTR that 2 gallons/mile was fairly normal for an MBT (something in the 50 to 70 ton range), at least on road: it would increase to 3 gallons a mile or more over rough ground. Probably goes up a lot when they're going flat-out, the latest ones usually being much faster than the specified figures would suggest, but I wouldn't like to be in something bumping over craters and ditches at 50 or 60 mph (I recall seeing one scary piece of film of a US Abrams doing this, it spent considerably more time in the air than in contact with the ground) I think that the Centurion arrangement is quite normal these days, in its case with its 1 litre engine as the generator and "starter motor" for the main engine, as you point out; the latter was a 27(?) litre V12 Meteor, which as far as I can tell is a Merlin retuned to take cheaper fuel and limited to relatively low revs (which I really can't remember, but I think was less than a thousand) Good tank, the Centurion. In spite of having been around for about half a century it's apparently still in use in various places. Chris. -- "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84 http://cbh.paunix.org My stuff, including genealogy, other things, etc http://www.paunix.org SDF Public Access UNIX: UNIX accounts and webspace! ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:46:35 +0100 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-Trace: betanews.demon.co.uk 1028023208 19046 193.237.4.110 (30 Jul 2002 10:00:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:00:08 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!kibo.news.demon.net!mutlu.news.demon.net!demon!betanews.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113024 According to Rupert Pigott : > They won't be anywhere near "stock" if they have V8's in > them. Citreon did a 650 *mumble* engine which could be put > in. Also oversize barrels etc... The current cutting edge > of 2CV lunacy seems to be the mid-engined ones - they use > superbike engines... The superbike engines are as likely as frightening a concept as the V8! I think that the V8 version(s) must also have been mid-engined, the "standard" bit being the retention of the skinny tyres, at least at the front. Chris. -- "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84 http://cbh.paunix.org My stuff, including genealogy, other things, etc http://www.paunix.org SDF Public Access UNIX: UNIX accounts and webspace! ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:48:29 +0100 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-Trace: betanews.demon.co.uk 1028023210 19046 193.237.4.110 (30 Jul 2002 10:00:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:00:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!kibo.news.demon.net!mutlu.news.demon.net!demon!betanews.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113025 According to Nico de Jong : > The following is NOT an UL. > Some years ago, I saw an ingenious solution to a nasty problem (in TV). It > was used in the woods of France, where many dirt paths are now narrow and so > long, that a car cant turn around. The solution was to take 2 2CV's, cut > them in half, and glue the two frontents together, back to back, so to say. > The driver could then just change to the other driver seat, and drive > back... Neat idea, if a little silly! Now thinking of that Simpsons episode (the one that was a take-off of "The Fly") I just feel sorry for the poor sod who got the two back-ends that'd been welded together! Chris. -- "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84 http://cbh.paunix.org My stuff, including genealogy, other things, etc http://www.paunix.org SDF Public Access UNIX: UNIX accounts and webspace! From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:48:29 +0100 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-Trace: betanews.demon.co.uk 1028023210 19046 193.237.4.110 (30 Jul 2002 10:00:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:00:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!kibo.news.demon.net!mutlu.news.demon.net!demon!betanews.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113025 According to Nico de Jong : > The following is NOT an UL. > Some years ago, I saw an ingenious solution to a nasty problem (in TV). It > was used in the woods of France, where many dirt paths are now narrow and so > long, that a car cant turn around. The solution was to take 2 2CV's, cut > them in half, and glue the two frontents together, back to back, so to say. > The driver could then just change to the other driver seat, and drive > back... Neat idea, if a little silly! Now thinking of that Simpsons episode (the one that was a take-off of "The Fly") I just feel sorry for the poor sod who got the two back-ends that'd been welded together! Chris. -- "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84 http://cbh.paunix.org My stuff, including genealogy, other things, etc http://www.paunix.org SDF Public Access UNIX: UNIX accounts and webspace! ###### From: stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Organization: Metropolis Grafix Reply-To: stanb@dial.pipex.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.2 UNIX) Date: 30 Jul 2002 10:36:36 GMT Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Host: usermb28.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: 1028025396 news.dial.pipex.com 237 62.188.120.27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet!lnewspeer01.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113019 On 29 Jul 2002 21:56:19 GMT, Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >Chris Hedley (cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk) writes: >> >... >> Most cars are indeed dull. OTOH, I find that I have to use >> so much concentration to anticipate the antics of other >> motorists that an overly interesting car might not be a good >> thing! > > Circa 30 years ago, I heaved my collection of Road & Track magazines. > Little did I know that they'd be fodder for a.f.c ! > > So there was this guy who put a R.R. Merlin in a car. Whether he got > 6 miles per gallon, or 6 gallons per mile, or 6 tires per day are lost > in the fog that constitutes my memory. But even on steep hills, given > traction, he could "pass with authority". There have been a few Merlin engined cars...Jay Leno has a 1920s Phantom fitted with one. Most are actually fitted with old tank engines rather than genuine aircraft ones, but Jay's is the real deal. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! ###### From: cb@df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 30 Jul 2002 11:26:30 GMT Organization: The Computer Society at Lund University and Lund Institute of Technology Lines: 43 Message-ID: References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> NNTP-Posting-Host: igloo.df.lth.se NNTP-Posting-User: cb X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Originator: cb@df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!130.240.42.8!luth.se!news.lth.se!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113016 In article , Rupert Pigott wrote: [ snippage ] >Err, doesn't feel that slow to me... Haven't done any major >tweaking on it, it's pretty much a stock 603cc. Driving such >a low powered car is actually quite a bit more interesting >than driving an ABS equipped hosebeast. For a start you have >to think ahead more, you have to use gears far more precisely, >you need to apply better observation too. A friend of mine used to have a 2CV Dyane. Being a passenger while he was driving it quickly through roundabouts was ... interesting, due to the suspension ... :) [ snippage ] >603cc 2CV was rated at around 29bhp. IIRC mild tweaks can >take them to ~35bhp, they rev fast for such an old design. >There are a number of popular turbo mods, some of which >take the them up to & beyond 65bhp. 2CVs are quite light >so those things really do motor. :P Now imagine if you took a 2CV Sahara: and turbo-charged it as much as possible - i.e., both engines ... ... and consider the power-to-weight ratio! :) [ more snippage ] >Cheers, >Rupert Best wishes, // Christian Brunschen ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 30 Jul 2002 14:13:45 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 44 Message-ID: References: <8_c19.350903$Bt1.17637499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113032 In article , MSCHAEF.COM wrote: >I >mean, driving an SUV as defensively as I can, if a deer jumps out in >front of my car, a car pulls out of a hidden driveway or runs a light, >my options are more limited in the SUV than they are being in a more >performance oriented vehicle. Gee, my preference fore these situations is plain, pure, recoil mass . . . It paid off when the ditz that couldn't count to 1 (the number of lanes between the concrete barriers on the offramp) tried to pass my wife on the right in a bmw 500. My wife didn't even feel the collision, but she heard it. Mild cosmetic damage and misalligned (1/4") bumper on the Crown Victoria; the side of the bmw was removed from bow to stern. The car also took a direct hit from a county bus (while parked!!!) and was repairable. The '71 Plymouth wagon, uhh, backed into a datsun (honda?) while I was shutting the hood (combination of a couple of Chrysler design peculiarities & a fatigued driver). Punched out the grill, bucked th hood, and knocked out the radiator of the silly little foreign car; I couldn't even find a scratch on my bumper pads. There's more of these, but the law of conservation of metal states: the heavy car wins. Maneuverability is nice, but recoil mass dominates . . . also, other drivers aren't nearly as agressive when you're that heavy, so you're far less likely to need to maneuver. hawk -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 30 Jul 2002 14:15:33 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113020 In article , Rupert Pigott wrote: >Yeah that is annoying. Mine's an old girl so I rarely take her >above 65, bless her. The most irritating thing is when people >seem to do *anything* to overtake your 2CV. People seem to get >this thing into their head that because it's a 2CV it MUST be >overtaken however dangerously - even if I'm driving on the >speed limit. Beep-beep, beep-beep, the horn went beep-beep-beep . . . :) hawk -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 30 Jul 2002 14:33:43 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <3D4306B7.20A3FF10@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113022 In article <3D4306B7.20A3FF10@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >"Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: >> Ross Perot (sp?) was an IBM salesman? I'm, ummm, astounded! B-) >Yes. He went to the Naval Academy in the U.S., and served in the >Navy. He left to sell computers for IBM. He founded EDS when he >was on hiatus from IBM because he had maxed out his quota. In the >beginning, he had to call *many* companies offering EDS services >before one said yes. Perot has many admirably qualities. If he weren't nuts, he probably would have won :) "On Wings of Eagles" is about the private rescue of his employees from Iran. During the Vietnam baby lift, he tried to charter a 747. Noone would let one of theirs into *that* environment, so he bought one . . . hawk -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 30 Jul 2002 14:39:56 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <1bsn23dymm.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113028 In article <1bsn23dymm.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >I saw the hole in the side of the building where a Weyerhaeuser >circular saw blade came loose once... So did the actual witnesses get buzz cuts? (OK, except for "Shorty", who kind of lost his head about it all . . .) :) hawk -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 31 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:46:37 CDT X-Trace: sv3-k6do5RG+hslwVaEtMoRmoDgrX6pUy39Yig2mjnqGAKDwQw56rtNxiTWd54EhUSgEI1py7A3KqJlEMgA!9w9SiVHO3bPdh41ftPNteYJdTm056yOdNxlfTfJE99HNfPOS+9+gpN637yTA11G+RtKZw0pr/ADU!5IK5E6w9cG1OcEzMfXqYaw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:46:37 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!feed.news.nacamar.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!easynews!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113065 In article , Richard E. Hawkins wrote: >Maneuverability is nice, but recoil mass dominates . . . In a collision, yes. In the events leading up to the collision, no. Maybe my attitude will change as I age or have children, but getting a massive car for safety reasons has always seemed a little defeatest to me. Sure, you're likely safer in a collision, but you also compromise your ability to avoid that collision. Of course, I'm also bothered by the long-term implications of massive cars. If everybody decides that mass is the solution to safety, it's pretty easy to see how that might (and does) turn into a mass 'arms race'. From a conservation standpoint, that seems problematic at best. >also, other >drivers aren't nearly as agressive when you're that heavy, so you're far >less likely to need to maneuver. Which is good, since you're far less able to manuver. :-) I suppose that even that's not entirely true. I've been in several situations where a line of traffic stops on the freeway. I'll put my hazards on to warn preceeding traffic of the problem, but it's always concerned me what I'd do if they didn't notice. I suppose an SUV would allow escape into the median more easily than a sedan or sports car. -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 30 Jul 2002 15:00:11 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 5 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1028041211 4568 134.117.136.30 (30 Jul 2002 15:00:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Jul 2002 15:00:11 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113049 Richard E. Hawkins (hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu) writes: > > Beep-beep, beep-beep, the horn went beep-beep-beep . . . "How do you get this thing out of second gear?" ###### From: "Nico de Jong" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Lines: 9 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:20:23 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.228.39.92 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uni2.dk X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1028093218 130.228.39.92 (Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:26:58 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:26:58 MET DST Organization: UNI2 Internet Kunde Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113076 > In article , > Rupert Pigott wrote: > Now imagine if you took a 2CV Sahara: > Is that the 4x4 version of the 2CV you talk about ? Nico ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 48 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 12:53:53 CDT X-Trace: sv3-XbtJiQkid5elS1dNwy2d1/Ve5C16HiF6NGDsi7D8aOioZbKvJA38lP7BpgPsW36zvzV2RZ2MsTzQ1We!t5Gxnl/iY39Ruy9aZBlrl6rw9iD7aqsO9D401Oya0+w4Gg5Ku0woYgXjPcpVRQcndjNT3gShbFUY!boaCzkpCHEyLc75ea6OFSw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 17:53:53 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!news.voicenet.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113107 In article , J. Clarke wrote: >FWIW, I went from a Corvette to a Cherokee. I went from a Cherokee to a Z3. >I was surprised to find >that I didn't really miss the performance all that much. As I was suprised to find I didn't miss the carrying capacity (or the four wheel drive) all that much. One other thing I don't miss is the 15-18 mpg. The Z3 does better, never getting below around 21mpg, and on the highway getting upwards of 25. I managed 25mpg _once_ in the Cherokee for a 60 mile stetch, by a combination of taking advantage of a 25mph tailwind and reducing my speed to 55mph in a 65 zone. This was in a stick shift Jeep with 3.07 gearing, not the optional 3.55 gearset I would have prefered. My Mom's old 89 automatic Cherokee (with the same 4.0 liter 6) got significantly worse, even though she has a lighter foot. >Sure, the >Corvette is more maneuverable, but the Cherokee makes up for that lack >with better visibility, and the maneuverability is not all _that_ poor. I don't have much experience with the Corvette, but my experience with a Camaro was that visibility was unusually bad. Is that also true of the 'Vette? As far as the Z3 goes, visibility was a huge concern for me before I bought the car, and better in the Z3 with the top up than the other convertibles I looked at. With the top down, obviously sight lines are far better than any hard top car. For seeing further out in the distance, I manage that by avoiding traffic as much as possible and _always_ scanning for clues that odd things might be lying ahead. >It also has an option that the Corvette doesn't--hitting the ditch isn't >usually a particularly big deal with a Jeep. I've said as much in another response in this thread. >If you really believe that maneuverability is the key to traffic safety, >ride a motorcycle. We all pick where our acceptable trade-offs lie. If you really believe in mass, visibility, and off-road solutions to on-road problems, I'd suggest you get something like an AM General Hummer, or maybe a nice Peterbilt. :-) -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:08:49 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-131-160.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: paris.btinternet.com 1028052529 28524 213.1.131.160 (30 Jul 2002 18:08:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:08:49 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!isdnet!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113092 "MSCHAEF.COM" wrote in message news:hFx19.13775$cm.555571@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > In article , [SNIP] > I suppose that even that's not entirely true. I've been in several > situations where a line of traffic stops on the freeway. I'll put my > hazards on to warn preceeding traffic of the problem, but it's always > concerned me what I'd do if they didn't notice. I suppose an SUV would > allow escape into the median more easily than a sedan or sports car. 2CV's have that one well covered... Escaping up verges and stuff is easy & painless. Speed bumps are usually pretty painless too. They are still built a little too feebly though, I think you could do something much safer these days for the same weight. :) Cheers, Rupert ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:10:09 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-131-160.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: venus.btinternet.com 1028052609 26911 213.1.131.160 (30 Jul 2002 18:10:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:10:09 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113091 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote in message news:ai69lr$4eo$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > Richard E. Hawkins (hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu) writes: > > > > Beep-beep, beep-beep, the horn went beep-beep-beep . . . > > "How do you get this thing out of second gear?" I'm usually oscillating between 3rd and 4th. :) 1st & reverse are really nifty, directly opposite each other, makes 3 point turns nice & quick. Cheers, Rupert ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:11:13 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-131-160.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: knossos.btinternet.com 1028052673 19517 213.1.131.160 (30 Jul 2002 18:11:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:11:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-raspail.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!isdnet!btnet-peer1!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113096 "J. Clarke" wrote in message news:ai6etm22pvr@enews4.newsguy.com... > In article , dark.try-eating- > this.b00ng@btinternet.com says... [SNIP] > Not sure where you're located. If you're in the US they are probably > trying to overtake you because they've never seen anything quite like a > 2CV and they want to get a better look at it. Nah, in the UK... Travelling dead on at 60, or making space for people to pass. ;) 2CV has an additional hate factor over here : It's french. :P Cheers, Rupert ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:18:13 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-131-160.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: knossos.btinternet.com 1028053093 20121 213.1.131.160 (30 Jul 2002 18:18:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:18:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113097 "Chris Hedley" wrote in message news:ddn5ia.4s.ln@teabag.cbhnet... > According to Nico de Jong : > > The following is NOT an UL. > > Some years ago, I saw an ingenious solution to a nasty problem (in TV). It > > was used in the woods of France, where many dirt paths are now narrow and so > > long, that a car cant turn around. The solution was to take 2 2CV's, cut > > them in half, and glue the two frontents together, back to back, so to say. > > The driver could then just change to the other driver seat, and drive > > back... > > Neat idea, if a little silly! Now thinking of that Simpsons episode > (the one that was a take-off of "The Fly") I just feel sorry for the > poor sod who got the two back-ends that'd been welded together! Not quite as silly as you may think. If you look carefully at the 2CV's suspension and floor pan you'll notice that it's pretty much a "piece of piss" to do that. They really are an incredibly neat piece of engineering. It's a shame that no one is going to mass-produce something as simple & effective in the forseeable future... The maintenence costs would be too low for starters. The Dealerships would lose money big time, because people could do 90% of the work on them themselves. Cheers, Rupert ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:20:42 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <3er1ia.gn6.ln@teabag.cbhnet> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-131-160.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: helle.btinternet.com 1028053242 23451 213.1.131.160 (30 Jul 2002 18:20:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:20:42 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!isdnet!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113090 "Christian Brunschen" wrote in message news:ai5t56$cho$1@news.lth.se... [SNIP] > Now imagine if you took a 2CV Sahara: > > > > > > and turbo-charged it as much as possible - i.e., both engines ... > > ... and consider the power-to-weight ratio! :) I think that someone must have tried that by now. There is a 4WD chassis available for the 2CV. You just but it and bolt the body onto it. Now if you combined that with a superbike engine & slightly wider tires would be pretty neat. No, I'm not going to try it on mine. :P Cheers, Rupert ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:21:42 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net><1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk><14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com><3D443A15.1527AE1C@earthlink.net> <20020729190250.593f0a77.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-131-160.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: venus.btinternet.com 1028053302 27936 213.1.131.160 (30 Jul 2002 18:21:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 18:21:42 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!colt.net!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113087 "Steve O'Hara-Smith" wrote in message news:20020729190250.593f0a77.steveo@eircom.net... > On Sun, 28 Jul 2002 22:21:04 +0000 (UTC) > "Rupert Pigott" wrote: > > RP> 1) They are very cheap 2nd hand and their resale value does not drop > > Only because there is nowhere for it to drop to! They are like > a Ural in this respect - and many others, but the Ural is more fun :) My 14 year old 2CV is worth twice as much as my neighbour's Sierra which is a mere 10 years old and has done less mileage... Go figure. :) Cheers, Rupert ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 27 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:04:56 CDT X-Trace: sv3-RIH9a3+G7HhjBe+83Q01hSF9OaFFU8+XbTSd6M8cdSPLjPsDsBSRjLZ3edmAW9/FQ76AEze1T3bZg8Q!AQl7/4wuD1m/8G2dmOMEdbXLJgVfjxunuQRy9j2A6gDYSrDvk/KsmDug7kFfwnHBaWdi97wvAQTI!Ul5YQde8uZs1uXRKZLMTIStyfTA= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:04:57 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113068 In article , Rupert Pigott wrote: > >"Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote in message >news:ai69lr$4eo$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... >> Richard E. Hawkins (hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu) writes: >> > >> > Beep-beep, beep-beep, the horn went beep-beep-beep . . . >> >> "How do you get this thing out of second gear?" > >I'm usually oscillating between 3rd and 4th. :) > >1st & reverse are really nifty, directly opposite >each other, makes 3 point turns nice & quick. So, what's the shift pattern look like? Something like this: R 2 4 | | | +-+-+ | | 1 3 -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### From: David Powell Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:06:16 +0100 Organization: Nextra UK Lines: 24 Message-ID: <5jodkuc27gq3h2c2hbsr387vv9usask4cd@4ax.com> References: <3D3EF00E.A16C89BC@ev1.net> <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> Reply-To: ddotpowell@icuknet.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: 70.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: thorium.cix.co.uk 1028056201 18651 212.35.234.70 (30 Jul 2002 19:10:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@net.nextra.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:10:01 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!peernews!peer.cwci.net!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!peernews.cix.co.uk!news.nextra.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113102 In article , itsy bitsy meowbot <53ab2750@meowing.net> in alt.folklore.computers wrote: >Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: > >> Gloster, as in Gloster Meteor? What became of that outfit? >> (I don't DubDubDub lately.) > >Merged into Hawker Siddeley, which in turn merged into BAE (just like >almost everyone else). Bought by Hawkers in the mid 30s. Most of the HS companies traded in their original names up to the early 70s, then after (yet another) group reorganisation, traded as Hawker Siddeley Ltd. I was lucky, I got out in 1970, before the rush. I think Glosters are still trading, under the name Gloster Saro, making aviation related kit - airport fire engines, refuelling vehicles, etc. Regards, David P. ###### From: David Powell Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:06:38 +0100 Organization: Nextra UK Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <3d427871$0$8514$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com> <1vu5ku4d9jctiuad28al7u4jpu3rmkm3p5@4ax.com> <793.975T1955T7354868@kltpzyxm.invalid> Reply-To: ddotpowell@icuknet.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: 70.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: thorium.cix.co.uk 1028056222 18651 212.35.234.70 (30 Jul 2002 19:10:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@net.nextra.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:10:22 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!gatel-ffm!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!shale.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!peernews.cix.co.uk!news.nextra.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113104 In article <793.975T1955T7354868@kltpzyxm.invalid>, "Charlie Gibbs" in alt.folklore.computers wrote: >In article <1vu5ku4d9jctiuad28al7u4jpu3rmkm3p5@4ax.com> >ddotpowell@icuknospamet.co.uk (David Powell) writes: > >>In article <3d427871$0$8514$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>, >>"Conrad Scott" in alt.folklore.computers >>wrote: >> >>>"Kelli Halliburton" >>> >>>> "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote in >>>> >>>>> Ya, at end of shift, the operators were really torqued. >>>> >>>> There was a lot of foot pounding going on. >>> >>>LOL! >>> >>>Best start to the day I've had for a long time. >> >>You didn't have a moment of inertia before starting work? > >Every couple has its moment. When the combined radius of gyration is minimised. Regards, David P. ###### From: rick@bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H Miller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 30 Jul 2002 20:21:32 GMT Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx Lines: 65 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: nike.it.bcm.tmc.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator-sterling!news-in.nuthinbutnews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!washdc3-snf1!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.utk.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!aanews.merit.edu!gumby.it.wmich.edu!newsreader.wustl.edu!news.rice.edu!newsfeed.rice.edu!rice!bcm.tmc.edu!nike!rick Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113095 George R. Gonzalez (grg2@attbi.com) wrote: : "Lucas Tam" wrote in message : news:Xns9253F00C93B5Enntprogerscom@140.99.99.130... : > I heard from a colleague at work that Hard Drive casings are so thick : > because years ago, someone was killed when a hard drive failed. : > Apparently, the spinning platters of the hard drive shattered into many : > pieces and flew out of the hard drive's then thin casing like pieces of : > shrapnel. : > : > Is this true? : > : > It sounds like an urban legend... however, he insists it's true. : > : Sounds like an urban legend. Most hard disk platters are aluminum, which is : quite strong in tension. I suspect the case and platters are thick to : minimize warping during machining and warmup, plus they've probably been : carefully annealed to release any machining strains. It seems unlikely the : platters could fail in that manner, i.e. shattering. Just an intiuitive : opinion! : Now if you were talking about one of those old CDC 6600 disks, (808?), now : THAT looked dangerous! Platters musta been 3 feet across, needed 3-phase : power for the drive motors.... The story I heard [before the concept of UL] involved the IBM data center here in Houston [used to be on Fannin/Holcombe]. In those days, IDM ran a service bureau which had the latest hardware. Now, as I recall, one of the differences between the 2311/2314 and the 3330 disk drives was that you could actually start the drive spinning with the bay open on the 2311/2314 but has to close it on the 3330. So, operators discovered this and used it to aid them in screwing the pack onto the spindle which descreased their time to change volumes. The story FofaF] states that the operators found out they had a Catholic girls school scheduled to tour the center so they proceeded to save up several mounts for the tour. The class arrived and the operators proceeded to try to impress them with ther speed and dexterity for handling disk volume changes. All went well until an operator got one of the packs a bit cross threaded so it spun up an an angle; cleaning amrs came out fine and then the heads extended into the platters. The claim is that the fragments blew out the window in the drive, went through the bullet resistent glass on Holcombe and took out a windshield. One story I do know is true [I got to help pick up the pieces so to speak] is when an operator tipped a cart of 3330 packs during their removal to an off-site location during a hurricane shutdown. When all was good, he then put the pack which had taken a good bounce into a drive an spun it up. It wreaked the heads so he removed the now dead drive and then proceeded to load a private user's data pack onto that spindle [with the damaged heads] and wiped it out. I think he realized about then something was wrong and called for help. It was then the private user discovered his staff had not been as diligent as they should have been with respect to backups. rick ###### From: J. Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:52:36 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 45 Message-ID: References: <3D4306B7.20A3FF10@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-598.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!216.148.52.16!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113081 In article , hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu says... > In article <3D4306B7.20A3FF10@ev1.net>, > Charles Richmond wrote: > >"Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > > >> Ross Perot (sp?) was an IBM salesman? I'm, ummm, astounded! B-) > > >Yes. He went to the Naval Academy in the U.S., and served in the > >Navy. He left to sell computers for IBM. He founded EDS when he > >was on hiatus from IBM because he had maxed out his quota. In the > >beginning, he had to call *many* companies offering EDS services > >before one said yes. > > Perot has many admirably qualities. If he weren't nuts, he probably > would have won :) Personally I lay that one on the producers of Star Trek Deep Space 9. They made H. Ross Perot's species look like buffoons--in their original appearance in STTNG the Ferengi were _tough_ SOBs, but Quark started out as a nitwit. > "On Wings of Eagles" is about the private rescue of his employees from > Iran. Yep, that's one thing one can say for Ross Boss--he got _his_ people out at some risk to himself, where the True Grit with the entire resources of the US military at his disposal managed to make a total botch of the attempt to rescue _his_ people. Somehow I suspect that if Ross Boss was in the White House right now Osama Bin Laden would be one very unhappy fanatic. > During the Vietnam baby lift, he tried to charter a 747. Noone would > let one of theirs into *that* environment, so he bought one . . . > > hawk > > -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### From: J. Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:57:07 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 56 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-671.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!207.115.63.142.MISMATCH!prodigy.*.com!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113082 In article , mschaef@eris.io.com says... > In article , > J. Clarke wrote: > > >FWIW, I went from a Corvette to a Cherokee. > > I went from a Cherokee to a Z3. > > >I was surprised to find > >that I didn't really miss the performance all that much. > > As I was suprised to find I didn't miss the carrying capacity (or the > four wheel drive) all that much. One other thing I don't miss is the 15-18 > mpg. The Z3 does better, never getting below around 21mpg, and on the > highway getting upwards of 25. I managed 25mpg _once_ in the Cherokee for > a 60 mile stetch, by a combination of taking advantage of a 25mph tailwind > and reducing my speed to 55mph in a 65 zone. This was in a stick shift > Jeep with 3.07 gearing, not the optional 3.55 gearset I would have > prefered. My Mom's old 89 automatic Cherokee (with the same 4.0 liter 6) > got significantly worse, even though she has a lighter foot. > > >Sure, the > >Corvette is more maneuverable, but the Cherokee makes up for that lack > >with better visibility, and the maneuverability is not all _that_ poor. > > I don't have much experience with the Corvette, but my experience with a > Camaro was that visibility was unusually bad. Is that also true of the > 'Vette? As far as the Z3 goes, visibility was a huge concern for me > before I bought the car, and better in the Z3 with the top up than the > other convertibles I looked at. With the top down, obviously sight lines > are far better than any hard top car. For seeing further out in the > distance, I manage that by avoiding traffic as much as possible and > _always_ scanning for clues that odd things might be lying ahead. > > >It also has an option that the Corvette doesn't--hitting the ditch isn't > >usually a particularly big deal with a Jeep. > > I've said as much in another response in this thread. > > >If you really believe that maneuverability is the key to traffic safety, > >ride a motorcycle. > > We all pick where our acceptable trade-offs lie. If you really believe in > mass, visibility, and off-road solutions to on-road problems, I'd suggest > you get something like an AM General Hummer, or maybe a nice Peterbilt. :-) Well, actually, there's a guy who works down the street who has a nice black Hummer that I rather covet. But they cost a bit more than I can afford right now. -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### Message-ID: <3D44B0CD.E3A539A5@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <8_c19.350903$Bt1.17637499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 03:03:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.158.73.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc02.gnilink.net 1028084632 141.158.73.204 (Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:03:52 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:03:52 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113069 "J. Clarke" wrote: > > [my Jeep Cherokee] has an option that the Corvette doesn't--hitting > the ditch isn't usually a particularly big deal with a Jeep. I used to drive a Jeep CJ5. Drove it into a ditch one day, backed it out onto the road, didn't see anything wrong with it. About four miles down the road, I pulled into a service station (I hope everyone here is old enough to remember what those were) because just moments before, the engine had started to make a new noise, and it sounded like it might be something important. I asked the mechanic what he thought, and he asked, "You got any oil in it?" I glanced at the pressure gauge, and then with the best deadpan expression I could muster, and a touch of "I-KNEW-that" in my voice, I said, "No." They charged me fifteen dollars to weld a patch over the hole I tore out of the bottom of the oil pan, and a couple of bucks more for four quarts. I don't necessarily miss that Jeep, but I sure do miss those days. -- Foo. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 31 Jul 2002 03:39:36 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1028086776 9909 134.117.136.30 (31 Jul 2002 03:39:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Jul 2002 03:39:36 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113085 J. Clarke (nospam1@nospam.invalid) writes: > > Well, actually, there's a guy who works down the street who has a nice > black Hummer that I rather covet. But they cost a bit more than I can > afford right now. Here in Ottawa, gasoline was 71.5 cents / liter at 2:30pm. (One must be precise, because the gas stations have monkeys that change the price signs on an hourly basis. You'd think that it be simpler to have some kind of LED display.) So, if somebody _gave_ me a Hummer, it would just be driveway decoration. Unless, of course, someone offered me a high-end S/370, in which case it could come in useful as a towing vehicle. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 13 Message-ID: <8jJ19.20952$nm.991295@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:02:12 CDT X-Trace: sv3-ZDDFgZnm9wwVhCZC88tpSZ6HrLy96mn84ivvIAJQhAI072wHY1KypLt6TAK7nIvDJryHHeIyTYCxur6!xxqWYfTx7E3kPQY7zHwk9nsLydYpWKNS6m8Nyx/qYCf6+6e3yd5HGxQPc4A9niBjaUMHGvPe/Bfg!xKn8m/llj20uxL/MMnzaEg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:02:12 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113105 In article , J. Clarke wrote: >Well, actually, there's a guy who works down the street who has a nice >black Hummer that I rather covet. Lol... then we're on different pages. :-) > But they cost a bit more than I can afford right now. Me too. :-( -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 20 Message-ID: <8lJ19.20984$nm.991578@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:04:20 CDT X-Trace: sv3-7Bw8BFxq5dAQx4SMeroyHxI+tMIPzWh455IAu+wHh0vbbLsQBrf3nAV5UEsQ18k6epEUsV5CgJYVe+T!fSLUtiSadao3JZMjummUHhZr7wU9x7WtgH0MYlDSJnq1PjZnNZTLn9nUKA2Tt15HCEIUB8s85sUA!9asABkZcezwS79D4hpvJqA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:04:20 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!slurp.net!newsrouter1.slurp.net!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113106 In article , Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >J. Clarke (nospam1@nospam.invalid) writes: >> >> Well, actually, there's a guy who works down the street who has a nice >> black Hummer that I rather covet. But they cost a bit more than I can >> afford right now. > > Here in Ottawa, gasoline was 71.5 cents / liter at 2:30pm. > (One must be precise, because the gas stations have monkeys that > change the price signs on an hourly basis. This is a naive question, but why is gas so much more in Ottawa than it is in the states? Is it just that people around here complain so much about higher gas taxes? I understand (and have seen personally) that US gas prices are generally quite low. -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:16:29 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-201-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: venus.btinternet.com 1028088989 17749 213.122.201.182 (31 Jul 2002 04:16:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:16:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113093 "MSCHAEF.COM" wrote in message news:srB19.399216$Im2.20559190@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > In article , > Rupert Pigott wrote: > > > >"Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote in message > >news:ai69lr$4eo$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > >> Richard E. Hawkins (hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu) writes: > >> > > >> > Beep-beep, beep-beep, the horn went beep-beep-beep . . . > >> > >> "How do you get this thing out of second gear?" > > > >I'm usually oscillating between 3rd and 4th. :) > > > >1st & reverse are really nifty, directly opposite > >each other, makes 3 point turns nice & quick. > > So, what's the shift pattern look like? Something like this: > > R 2 4 > | | | > +-+-+ > | | > 1 3 Dead on, unless I've remembered it upside down. :) Cheers, Rupert ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 24.67.16.79 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: <8lJ19.20984$nm.991578@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 32 Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:56:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news2.calgary.shaw.ca 1028091365 24.71.223.147 (Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:56:05 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:56:05 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!easynews!ps01-sjc1!news.webusenet.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news2.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113101 On Wed, 31 Jul 2002 04:04:20 GMT, mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) wrote: >In article , >Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >>J. Clarke (nospam1@nospam.invalid) writes: >>> >>> Well, actually, there's a guy who works down the street who has a nice >>> black Hummer that I rather covet. But they cost a bit more than I can >>> afford right now. >> >> Here in Ottawa, gasoline was 71.5 cents / liter at 2:30pm. >> (One must be precise, because the gas stations have monkeys that >> change the price signs on an hourly basis. > >This is a naive question, but why is gas so much more in Ottawa than it is >in the states? Is it just that people around here complain so much about >higher gas taxes? I understand (and have seen personally) that US gas >prices are generally quite low. Over 50% of the price is taxation by some level of government. Here, about 10km from the nearest wellhead, it's about 67c/l. -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov spam traps ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 31 Jul 2002 05:02:44 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <8lJ19.20984$nm.991578@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1028091764 16189 134.117.136.30 (31 Jul 2002 05:02:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Jul 2002 05:02:44 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113086 MSCHAEF.COM (mschaef@eris.io.com) writes: > > This is a naive question, but why is gas so much more in Ottawa than it is > in the states? Is it just that people around here complain so much about > higher gas taxes? I understand (and have seen personally) that US gas > prices are generally quite low. Because the traitors who negotiated the so-called free trade agreement and its follow-on NAFTA ensured that Canada had to give a certain amount of oil and natural gas to the USA. As for softwood lumber, well that's a whole different story, ain't it. In return, we get Intel/Microsoft, ummm, stuff at deep discounts. ###### From: "Nico de Jong" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <8lJ19.20984$nm.991578@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Lines: 17 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:41:21 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.228.39.109 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uni2.dk X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1028095051 130.228.39.109 (Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:57:31 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:57:31 MET DST Organization: UNI2 Internet Kunde Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113072 "MSCHAEF.COM" skrev i en meddelelse news:8lJ19.20984$nm.991578@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > This is a naive question, but why is gas so much more in Ottawa than it is > in the states? Is it just that people around here complain so much about > higher gas taxes? I understand (and have seen personally) that US gas > prices are generally quite low. The Canadians cant complain, I think. Gas (95 lead-free) costs at present over 8 DKK / Liter, which is something like USD 1.10 / liter, which again is about USD 5,00 per gallon. In Norway it is about 15-20% more expensive, and they just suck the fluid out of the North Sea... Nico ###### From: "Nico de Jong" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Lines: 33 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:48:48 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.228.39.109 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uni2.dk X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1028095052 130.228.39.109 (Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:57:32 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:57:32 MET DST Organization: UNI2 Internet Kunde Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113073 "Richard H Miller" skrev i en meddelelse news:ai6sgc$3gd@gazette.corp.bcm.tmc.edu... > One story I do know is true [I got to help pick up the pieces so to speak] is > when an operator tipped a cart of 3330 packs during their removal to an off-site > location during a hurricane shutdown. When all was good, he then put the pack which > had taken a good bounce into a drive an spun it up. It wreaked the heads so he > removed the now dead drive and then proceeded to load a private user's data pack > onto that spindle [with the damaged heads] and wiped it out. I think he realized > about then something was wrong and called for help. It was then the private > user discovered his staff had not been as diligent as they should have been with > respect to backups. Talking about daft people (or even outright stupid): The first (and only) operators job I had, was a bit careless with backups, so only a 3-level backup was done. Then suddenly 2 of the tapes (it contained the member library), developped read faults. The boss then took the last tape with him, siad "I'll take good care of the baby", and in order to be sure that no-one used the tape, he put it under his telephone, which was one of those with a real magnet in it. Luckily someone saw it before someone else rang... Nico ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <8_c19.350903$Bt1.17637499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> From: Dowe Keller Date: 30 Jul 2002 23:20:11 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 28 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.169.219.94 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.169.219.94 X-Trace: news.sierratel.com 1028093797 206.169.219.94 (30 Jul 2002 22:36:37 -0700) Organization: news.sierratel.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news.sierratel.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113078 J. Clarke writes: > If you really believe that maneuverability is the key to traffic safety, > ride a motorcycle. I do, I did. My '82 Honda Silverwing has the acceleration, braking, and manuverablility of a sports car without the "My ass is 2 inches off the ground and I cant see over that potted plant from here" visibility. IMNSHO, visibility is vital, because I watch whats happening to the flow of traffic all the way to the horizon. Here in the USA, people in general seem to have an obsession with surviving crashes (as opposed to avoiding them all together). The term safety here (in the context of cars) is usually used here to mean crashworthiness. BTW, I cannot stand those morons who will attempt various non-driving-related activities while driving. These people deserve to crash, but the people who they are eventually going to crash into don't. -- dowe@sierratel.com I've run DOOM more in the last few days than I have the last few months. I just love debugging ;-) (Linus Torvalds) ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:08:59 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <5jodkuc27gq3h2c2hbsr387vv9usask4cd@4ax.com> User-Agent: tin/1.5.12-20020427 ("Sugar") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.6-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 14 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.news2me.com!sn-xit-05!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113094 David Powell wrote: > > I think Glosters are still trading, under the name Gloster Saro, Wouldn't be where Saunders Roe (the flying boat people) ended up, would it? > making aviation related kit - airport fire engines, refuelling > vehicles, etc. pete -- pete@fenelon.com "I... will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season" ###### From: Jeff Teunissen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Organization: Dusk To Dawn Computing Lines: 24 Message-ID: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en-US, en NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.245.2.60 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc03 1028107802 12.245.2.60 (Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:30:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:30:02 GMT Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:30:02 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!sccrnsc03.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113103 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > J. Clarke (nospam1@nospam.invalid) writes: > > > > Well, actually, there's a guy who works down the street who has a nice > > black Hummer that I rather covet. But they cost a bit more than I can > > afford right now. > > Here in Ottawa, gasoline was 71.5 cents / liter at 2:30pm. > (One must be precise, because the gas stations have monkeys that > change the price signs on an hourly basis. You'd think that it > be simpler to have some kind of LED display.) > > So, if somebody _gave_ me a Hummer, it would just be driveway > decoration. Unless, of course, someone offered me a high-end > S/370, in which case it could come in useful as a towing vehicle. Hummers run on diesel, which is usually a bit cheaper than gas. -- | Jeff Teunissen -=- Pres., Dusk To Dawn Computing -=- deek @ d2dc.net | GPG: 1024D/9840105A 7102 808A 7733 C2F3 097B 161B 9222 DAB8 9840 105A | Core developer, The QuakeForge Project http://www.quakeforge.net/ | Specializing in Debian GNU/Linux http://www.d2dc.net/~deek/ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 15 Message-ID: <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:50:43 CDT X-Trace: sv3-LwtYV1mABqIlgO/M85UvkNy8iJVkvd4wYWVvgntyhOikvvknf+o4dKEDOybHcdOXx0C/AsO6x8PKzds!tPtep505a4QIX2GxbAaDAxS6mySUqlfzehCCer6wReaDNORTjPDOtBht0XsZjo7clLg3uHTY/+7s!mR5d0RxudNMj1DSRDXHkvvo= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:50:43 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113113 In article <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net>, Jeff Teunissen wrote: >Hummers run on diesel, which is usually a bit cheaper than gas. Not all of them. "The standard engine is a 6.5L diesel made by GM. A turbocharged version is available. For a few years, a 350 (cubic inch) gasoline engine was available, but it was discontinued as of 1997. " http://www.humvee.net/misc/humfaq.html -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:19:30 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> User-Agent: tin/1.5.12-20020427 ("Sugar") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.6-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator-sterling!news-in.nuthinbutnews.com!feed.textport.net!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113109 MSCHAEF.COM wrote: > In article <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net>, Jeff Teunissen wrote: > >>Hummers run on diesel, which is usually a bit cheaper than gas. > > Not all of them. > > "The standard engine is a 6.5L diesel made by GM. A turbocharged version > is available. For a few years, a 350 (cubic inch) gasoline engine was > available, but it was discontinued as of 1997. " > What you need is a Lamborghini LM002 -- the powerboat version of the Countach/Diablo V12 in a chassis that out-machos the Hummer :) pete -- pete@fenelon.com "I... will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season" ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:53:29 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-131-5.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: helle.btinternet.com 1028130809 10731 213.1.131.5 (31 Jul 2002 15:53:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:53:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!news-x2.support.nl!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113110 "Pete Fenelon" wrote in message news:ukg002o4i7d23@corp.supernews.com... > MSCHAEF.COM wrote: > > In article <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net>, Jeff Teunissen wrote: > > > >>Hummers run on diesel, which is usually a bit cheaper than gas. > > > > Not all of them. > > > > "The standard engine is a 6.5L diesel made by GM. A turbocharged version > > is available. For a few years, a 350 (cubic inch) gasoline engine was > > available, but it was discontinued as of 1997. " > > > > What you need is a Lamborghini LM002 -- the powerboat version of the > Countach/Diablo V12 in a chassis that out-machos the Hummer :) Available dirt cheap too. It's much earlier than the Diablo, not sure exactly what engine they used. Pretty sure it was a rather hefty V12 though, and the LM002 is apparently a very nice drive on & off road. :) Range Rovers, PAH ! Cheers, Rupert ###### X-Posting-Agent: Hamster/1.3.23.4 From: Nick Spalding Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Reply-To: Nick Spalding Message-ID: References: <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <5jodkuc27gq3h2c2hbsr387vv9usask4cd@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.568 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 16:30:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.203.141.233 X-Complaints-To: abuse@iol.ie X-Trace: news.iol.ie 1028133002 193.203.141.233 (Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:30:02 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:30:02 BST Organization: Ireland On-Line Customer Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!colt.net!newsfeed.esat.net!news.iol.ie!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113112 Pete Fenelon wrote, in : > David Powell wrote: > > > > I think Glosters are still trading, under the name Gloster Saro, > > Wouldn't be where Saunders Roe (the flying boat people) ended up, would > it? Part of it. Some went into Westland Helicopters many years ago, 1960(L) I think. -- Nick Spalding ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 01 Aug 02 09:17:46 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaGUP4ul0HmPlH5D6t4/vnt4vHvA+3hSebm6k3CUCZJuR572Efx8NOz X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Aug 2002 10:23:49 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!208-59-181-203 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113137 In article <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) wrote: >In article <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net>, Jeff Teunissen wrote: > >>Hummers run on diesel, which is usually a bit cheaper than gas. > >Not all of them. > >"The standard engine is a 6.5L diesel made by GM. A turbocharged version >is available. For a few years, a 350 (cubic inch) gasoline engine was >available, but it was discontinued as of 1997. " > >http://www.humvee.net/misc/humfaq.html I don't know the MPG (miles/gallon) of diesel, but diesel fuel around here (Massachusetts) costs more than gasoline. I keep getting surprised when I see the prices. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 01 Aug 02 09:23:30 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: <640.978T1531T5634856@kltpzyxm.invalid> References: <8lJ19.20984$nm.991578@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-030.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113157 In article hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) writes: >hawk, a free trade economist, still trying to figure out what NAFTA >had to do with free trade That's easy, it means that the U.S. is free to trade with anyone if they get the benefit, and partners aren't allowed to enact tariffs or subsidies that would impede this freedom. They're also free to enact their own tariffs and subsidies if their trading partners would benefit. -- cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) I'm really at moc.subyks if you read it the right way. Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. ###### From: David Powell Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:10:22 +0100 Organization: Nextra UK Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: ddotpowell@icuknet.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: 84.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: thorium.cix.co.uk 1028142848 27610 212.35.234.84 (31 Jul 2002 19:14:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@net.nextra.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:14:08 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!lon1-news.nildram.net!peernews.cix.co.uk!news.nextra.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113206 In article , cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) in alt.folklore.computers wrote: > >As for fuel consumption; well, back to the infamous Calibra Turbo, >it had one of them newfangled trip computer thingies installed, >and the reported mpg figures were not something I wish to see >again... about 18mpg with fairly "average" driving, dropping to >pretty much zero with any sort of acceleration. I'm staying with old, proven, technology. From a 1953ish Triumph advert in "Motor Racing". A stock model T.R.2 sports car ... completed the Le Mans 24 hour race. Average speed 74.71 m.p.h. for 24 hours. Petrol consumption 34.668 m.p.g. 58 starters, Triumph T.R.2 finished 15th. Price 625 (+261 10/10d purchase tax). > That was *not* >a cheap car to drive with petrol at UK prices. Wonderful gearbox >it had, though, I loved the extra sixth gear (that was made for >me, even before I drove it I kept trying to change into 6th with >a normal 5-speed box, the potential nasty being with the Rover >214 I once owned where "reverse" was where one might expect 6th, >fortunately they had some sort of inertia lock to stop it >engaging!), shame that they were prone to breaking: the 18-month >old model I had already had the usual knackered synchro on 2nd >and 3rd. > On the TR, overdrive on 2nd,3rd and 4th, just keep the revs above 3800 in any gear. :-) Regards, David P. ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 31 Jul 2002 16:09:06 -0600 Organization: New Mexico State University Lines: 17 Message-ID: <1bofcneeil.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 1028153345 18888 128.123.64.113 (31 Jul 2002 22:09:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Jul 2002 22:09:05 GMT User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!nunki.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113139 greymaus writes: > > Are there Hummers built for civvy use?. I read that Schwartznegger has > one. Is it legal to drive a vehicle with centre steering on roads in > USA?. ( The first Land Rovers had centre steering, but that was in > more relaxed days) Yes, Hummers are built for civilian use (in fact, the ``Hummer'' name is only for the civilian version; the military is still trying to get people to call theirs HUMVEE or some closely related acronym). I could have sworn the steering was on the left... -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### Message-ID: <3D48425A.1BF22836@trailing-edge.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:02:34 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.2 AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: 1028160157 reader2.ash.ops.us.uu.net 400 63.73.218.130 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!uunet!sea.uu.net!ash.uu.net!spool0901.news.uu.net!spool0900.news.uu.net!reader0902.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113150 greymaus wrote: > Are there Hummers built for civvy use?. I read that Schwartznegger has > one. Yep, if you got the bucks, you too can buy one. > Is it legal to drive a vehicle with centre steering on roads in > USA?. ( The first Land Rovers had centre steering, but that was in > more relaxed days) The ones I've seen were left hand drive. But I didn't know that center steering was disallowed; in fact, right-hand drive vehicles are commonly used in the US for mail delivery. I think that right-hand drive is a standard option on some US Subaru wagons. The Hummer is so wide that I can honestly see why center steering would be a feature. Tim. ###### From: J Ahlstrom Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:36:39 -0700 Organization: Cisco Systems Inc. Message-ID: <3D488297.7DD2B2EA@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1bofcneeil.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: sj-nntpcache-5!unknown@171.69.75.49 X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!sn-xit-05!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113116 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > greymaus writes: > > > > Are there Hummers built for civvy use?. I read that Schwartznegger has > > one. Is it legal to drive a vehicle with centre steering on roads in > > USA?. ( The first Land Rovers had centre steering, but that was in > > more relaxed days) > > Yes, Hummers are built for civilian use (in fact, the ``Hummer'' name > is only for the civilian version; the military is still trying to get > people to call theirs HUMVEE or some closely related acronym). > > I could have sworn the steering was on the left... > -- > Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 > Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 > New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer > Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair I was sure that the hard springing on the HUMVEE led to the military designation "bummer". JKA -- Ordinarily, I wouldn't've sent something quite like that, but I was a little fatigued and didn't have enough neurons firing in the inhibitory parts of my frontal cortex to prevent me from sending it. after R Praetorius ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 01:22:25 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-201-186.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: knossos.btinternet.com 1028164945 5144 213.122.201.186 (1 Aug 2002 01:22:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 01:22:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113168 "greymaus" wrote in message news:ai9fe7$11sef9$2@ID-132592.news.dfncis.de... > In article , Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: > > J. Clarke (nospam1@nospam.invalid) writes: > >> > >> Well, actually, there's a guy who works down the street who has a nice > >> black Hummer that I rather covet. But they cost a bit more than I can > >> afford right now. > > > > Here in Ottawa, gasoline was 71.5 cents / liter at 2:30pm. > > (One must be precise, because the gas stations have monkeys that > > change the price signs on an hourly basis. You'd think that it > > be simpler to have some kind of LED display.) > > > > So, if somebody _gave_ me a Hummer, it would just be driveway > > decoration. Unless, of course, someone offered me a high-end > > S/370, in which case it could come in useful as a towing vehicle. > > Are there Hummers built for civvy use?. I read that Schwartznegger has > one. Is it legal to drive a vehicle with centre steering on roads in > USA?. ( The first Land Rovers had centre steering, but that was in > more relaxed days) McLaren F1s have centre steering too... Apparently Road Legal. :) Cheers, Rupert ###### From: J. Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 23:39:55 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <1bofcneeil.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-166.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113151 In article <1bofcneeil.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu says... > greymaus writes: > > > > Are there Hummers built for civvy use?. I read that Schwartznegger has > > one. Is it legal to drive a vehicle with centre steering on roads in > > USA?. ( The first Land Rovers had centre steering, but that was in > > more relaxed days) > > Yes, Hummers are built for civilian use (in fact, the ``Hummer'' name > is only for the civilian version; the military is still trying to get > people to call theirs HUMVEE or some closely related acronym). High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle--HMMWV. It's the "Hummer" like the A-10 is the "Warthog"--doesn't matter what the _official_ designation might be. > I could have sworn the steering was on the left... And it's on the left in every Hummer I've ever seen. -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### From: Jeff Teunissen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Organization: Dusk To Dawn Computing Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3D48AC65.AAF5AF2E@d2dc.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.17 i686) X-Accept-Language: en-US, en NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.245.2.60 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc02 1028173202 12.245.2.60 (Thu, 01 Aug 2002 03:40:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 03:40:02 GMT Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 03:40:02 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn1feed!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.204!attbi_feed4!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!sccrnsc02.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113201 greymaus wrote: [snip] > Are there Hummers built for civvy use?. I read that Schwartznegger has > one. Is it legal to drive a vehicle with centre steering on roads in > USA?. ( The first Land Rovers had centre steering, but that was in > more relaxed days) There's a Hummer dealership in the city I live in, and it's not even a big city (only half a million people, counting suburbs). You can get a used one as low as $40000, or so I hear. -- | Jeff Teunissen -=- Pres., Dusk To Dawn Computing -=- deek @ d2dc.net | GPG: 1024D/9840105A 7102 808A 7733 C2F3 097B 161B 9222 DAB8 9840 105A | Core developer, The QuakeForge Project http://www.quakeforge.net/ | Specializing in Debian GNU/Linux http://www.d2dc.net/~deek/ ###### From: J. Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 23:42:57 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <8_c19.350903$Bt1.17637499@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-242.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113154 In article , dowe@krikkit.127.0.0.1 says... > J. Clarke writes: > > > If you really believe that maneuverability is the key to traffic safety, > > ride a motorcycle. > > I do, I did. > > My '82 Honda Silverwing has the acceleration, braking, and > manuverablility of a sports car without the "My ass is 2 inches off > the ground and I cant see over that potted plant from here" > visibility. IMNSHO, visibility is vital, because I watch whats > happening to the flow of traffic all the way to the horizon. > > Here in the USA, people in general seem to have an obsession with > surviving crashes (as opposed to avoiding them all together). The term > safety here (in the context of cars) is usually used here to mean > crashworthiness. I don't think it's "people in general". It's a few nutcakes who got a bunch of legislation passed by employing the squeaky wheel principle. Most folks couldn't care less. > BTW, I cannot stand those morons who will attempt various > non-driving-related activities while driving. These people deserve to > crash, but the people who they are eventually going to crash into > don't. > > -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 15 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:31:04 CDT X-Trace: sv3-TuZph0ls5ucnFxxDcyLJviRagxpAn99S9haA2Fscbtdcj/M8bhfMw6IaWTtuK8RFg4YeAZCTbvYcCnt!nvBfeJxx1rVX1zhdgn2i8XBq+Ee0BvAPYc8piT5Kl0axNWOtgr8wOa8T45/QcT5ihKY8wHDbO9HO!hIyCw2D2tsJ6mnVJ1fQgZ/o= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 14:31:04 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.news2me.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113205 In article , wrote: >I don't know the MPG (miles/gallon) of diesel, but diesel fuel >around here (Massachusetts) costs more than gasoline. I keep >getting surprised when I see the prices. Diesels typically get better mileage. That's one of the thing that amuses me about the current focus on hybrid gas/electric cars. They either have serious compromises in capacity (350 pounds total carrying capacity in the Insight) or they make only 40-50mpg. Volkswagen Turbo Diesel cars are also in that ballpark, and are based on simpler technology. -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 1 Aug 2002 15:16:37 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <8lJ19.20984$nm.991578@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: slytherin.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113141 In article , Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >MSCHAEF.COM (mschaef@eris.io.com) writes: >> This is a naive question, but why is gas so much more in Ottawa than it is >> in the states? Is it just that people around here complain so much about >> higher gas taxes? I understand (and have seen personally) that US gas >> prices are generally quite low. > Because the traitors who negotiated the so-called free trade agreement > and its follow-on NAFTA ensured that Canada had to give a certain > amount of oil and natural gas to the USA. As for softwood lumber, > well that's a whole different story, ain't it. ??? Your *taxes* on it our higher than our prices; supply is purely secondary. hawk, a free trade economist, still trying to figure out what NAFTA had to do with free trade -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 1 Aug 2002 15:18:46 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: slytherin.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113142 In article , MSCHAEF.COM wrote: >In article , wrote: > >>I don't know the MPG (miles/gallon) of diesel, but diesel fuel >>around here (Massachusetts) costs more than gasoline. I keep >>getting surprised when I see the prices. >Diesels typically get better mileage. That's one of the thing that amuses >me about the current focus on hybrid gas/electric cars. They either have >serious compromises in capacity (350 pounds total carrying capacity in >the Insight) or they make only 40-50mpg. Volkswagen Turbo Diesel cars are >also in that ballpark, and are based on simpler technology. FOr passenger vehicles, a diesel engine will typically get better mileage than a gasoline engine of the same displacement. This does *not* appear to be the general case for engines with the same performance, however . . . hawk -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 1 Aug 2002 15:25:13 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: slytherin.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113144 In article , J. Clarke wrote: >Not sure where you're located. If you're in the US they are probably >trying to overtake you because they've never seen anything quite like a >2CV and they want to get a better look at it. Don't be silly; we've seen lots of those. It's just that our foot keeps striking the gas during the convulsions :) (ok, and sometimes we need the cars side by side to verify that the whole car could, indeed, fit in the passenger compartment, or the trunk . . . hawk -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 15 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 10:29:14 CDT X-Trace: sv3-SVYcUajEQugwSh5zVmg+vnMBn0OFl1S9dmfU0kNWAKvY+3OvoMQXmkDYryfBUhNwyIP27xtdSEvLj5a!E4C/aJr7DieOQc+GHX9ow+/MpQHiAImd3CDytL/jeyQffavJGkDnzfk5bSxxa2qL6Wktnx+kEXuR!JMGyJcE78az3jDHBMaUnHQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 15:29:14 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!gatel-ffm!proxad.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113203 In article , Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote: >FOr passenger vehicles, a diesel engine will typically get better >mileage than a gasoline engine of the same displacement. This does >*not* appear to be the general case for engines with the same >performance, however . . . Do you mind elaborating? Most applications of Diesel engines I'm aware of get better fuel economy than a gasoline engine in the same setting, although the performance characteristics are different. -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 1 Aug 2002 15:31:13 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: slytherin.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113130 In article , Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >Richard E. Hawkins (hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu) writes: >> Beep-beep, beep-beep, the horn went beep-beep-beep . . . > "How do you get this thing out of second gear?" scornfully, of course . . . hawk -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: The.Central.Scrutinizer.wakawaka@invalid.pobox.com Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (Linux) NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.124.10.19 Date: 1 Aug 2002 09:39:29 -0600 X-Trace: omega.dimensional.com 1028216369 206.124.10.19 (1 Aug 2002 09:39:29 -0600) Lines: 14 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!206.124.0.13.MISMATCH!omega.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113149 In article , MSCHAEF.COM wrote: | In article , | Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote: | | >FOr passenger vehicles, a diesel engine will typically get better | >mileage than a gasoline engine of the same displacement. This does | >*not* appear to be the general case for engines with the same | >performance, however . . . | Do you mind elaborating? Most applications of Diesel engines I'm aware of | get better fuel economy than a gasoline engine in the same setting, | although the performance characteristics are different. Diesels only make sense where low end torque and durability are paramount. ###### From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 1 Aug 2002 15:39:52 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: slytherin.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113138 In article , MSCHAEF.COM wrote: >In article , >Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote: > >>FOr passenger vehicles, a diesel engine will typically get better >>mileage than a gasoline engine of the same displacement. This does >>*not* appear to be the general case for engines with the same >>performance, however . . . >Do you mind elaborating? Most applications of Diesel engines I'm aware of >get better fuel economy than a gasoline engine in the same setting, >although the performance characteristics are different. I'm grossly generalizing, but if you look at the engines available in the same car, you'll typically find things such as a choice between a 1.6L gas and a 1.6L diesel, or some such. The diesel will get much better mileage than the gas engine--but put out substantially less power and torque, accellerate slowly, etc. It's rare (if ever) that there is a smaller gas engine available which could be compared to the diesel. hawk -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 1 Aug 2002 15:41:20 GMT Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Lines: 7 Message-ID: References: <8lJ19.20984$nm.991578@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1028216480 17016 134.117.136.30 (1 Aug 2002 15:41:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Aug 2002 15:41:20 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (SunOS) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113202 On 1 Aug 2002 15:16:37 GMT, Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote: > > hawk, a free trade economist, still trying to figure out what NAFTA had > to do with free trade Ask any Canadian logger. ###### From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 16:42:56 +0100 Message-ID: <1028216577.183.0.nnrp-07.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <8lJ19.20984$nm.991578@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> Reply-To: "Peter Ibbotson" NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1028216577 nnrp-07:183 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1050 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1050 Lines: 12 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113178 "Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote in message news:aibjcl$m9s@r02n01.cac.psu.edu... > hawk, a free trade economist, still trying to figure out what NAFTA had > to do with free trade When you find out please let me know. -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:47:54 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-203-241.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: venus.btinternet.com 1028216874 29428 213.122.203.241 (1 Aug 2002 15:47:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:47:54 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-raspail.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!isdnet!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113164 "MSCHAEF.COM" wrote in message news:ICb29.49632$cm.1640250@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > In article , wrote: > > >I don't know the MPG (miles/gallon) of diesel, but diesel fuel > >around here (Massachusetts) costs more than gasoline. I keep > >getting surprised when I see the prices. > > Diesels typically get better mileage. That's one of the thing that amuses > me about the current focus on hybrid gas/electric cars. They either have > serious compromises in capacity (350 pounds total carrying capacity in > the Insight) or they make only 40-50mpg. Volkswagen Turbo Diesel cars are > also in that ballpark, and are based on simpler technology. The hybrids I'm aware of reportedly do better than 40-50, we're talking more in the 50-80 range. I've measured my 603cc 2CV (made in '84) at 45mpg on several long A road trips (UK). :) Cheers, Rupert ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 33 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 11:00:54 CDT X-Trace: sv3-ZnsQKlLLJpcnFhx6PetF8F50AN2iSOZ1NW7Uh+GXNIuZvC/VPJbZ9Ihxv02TCqHf/s7h/YVmR7wR/2i!qPkxwGYBAhOLRm9tdYuWuAnZKL1xxay8zjOnaMlUkl89dWp9b7FcOnYz3TXUyDQXHNfgihhI8145!3mty6ExYZsYjhSt3ngbBaQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 16:00:54 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113198 In article , Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote: >I'm grossly generalizing, but if you look at the engines available in >the same car, you'll typically find things such as a choice between a >1.6L gas and a 1.6L diesel, or some such. The diesel will get much >better mileage than the gas engine--but put out substantially less power >and torque, accellerate slowly, etc. This is the US Market Jetta: 2.0 liter 4-cyl 115hp @ 5200rpm 122ft-lbs @ 2600 rpm MPG = 24/31 Range = 348mi/449.5mi 0-60 = 10.5 1.9 liter TDI 90hp @ 3750tpm (-21%) 155 ft-lbs @ 1900 rpm (+27%) MPG = 42/49 (+75%/+58%) Range = 609mi/710mi (+75%/+58%) 0-60 = 12.4 (+18%) I'm not saying that the TDI isn't slower, but I wouldn't go so far as to say 'substantially' slower. Particularly considering the 75% increase in fuel efficiency and added low-end torque. I understand that the european markets get still more powerful diesels. -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 32 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 11:11:08 CDT X-Trace: sv3-IWCiWN4zoes5rfLDmCxWeUwshbhnUvFooEymc23M0RVU0nC7NCav+q8F87IhsBpj1fWur3iGoPwB585!NJGhPyChXtsj83wFbOzrs4j990xJU423QVpcKXpUdwXC5Sl70Le5D9jhoKJSrP0VGh/32ABRsuTY!Zxeag/S944CC1Xu0jERVQ0c= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 16:11:08 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!telocity-west!TELOCITY!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!out.nntp.be!propagator2-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113204 In article , Rupert Pigott wrote: >The hybrids I'm aware of reportedly do better than 40-50, we're >talking more in the 50-80 range. Rated numbers: Escape Hybrid = ~40 (est.) Toyota Prius = 45/52 Honda Insight = 61/68 (With a 350 pound cap on _total carrying capacity_) Civic Hybrid = 46/51 VW Jetta TDI Wagon = 42/50 VG Golf/Jetta/New Beetle TDI = 42/49 Again, it's not that I'm claiming a TDI is better than a hybrid, I just question the return on investment of adding the complexity of a special battery, motor, mechanical coupling, motor controller, modified gasoline engine. and all the other associated cruft that you get with a Hybrid. Are Diesels really that difficult to make cleaner, or is there some other reason that Hybrids are getting the attention? Maybe the semi-electrics are sexier than Diesel or they get more government dollars. > I've measured my 603cc 2CV (made >in '84) at 45mpg on several long A road trips (UK). :) Wow. :-) -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### From: "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 1 Aug 2002 16:18:50 GMT Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1028218730 19830 134.117.136.30 (1 Aug 2002 16:18:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Aug 2002 16:18:50 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (SunOS) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshosting.com!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!newspump.sol.net!206.55.64.81.MISMATCH!newsfeeds.sol.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113191 On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:47:54 +0000 (UTC), Rupert Pigott wrote: > > The hybrids I'm aware of reportedly do better than 40-50, we're > talking more in the 50-80 range. I've measured my 603cc 2CV (made > in '84) at 45mpg on several long A road trips (UK). :) Strong tail wind, windows rolled up, aftermarket front air dam ... ###### From: "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 1 Aug 2002 16:21:49 GMT Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1028218909 19830 134.117.136.30 (1 Aug 2002 16:21:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Aug 2002 16:21:49 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (SunOS) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-peer-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113189 On Thu, 01 Aug 2002 16:11:08 GMT, MSCHAEF.COM wrote: > > Again, it's not that I'm claiming a TDI is better than a hybrid, I just > question the return on investment of adding the complexity of a special > battery, motor, mechanical coupling, motor controller, modified gasoline > engine. and all the other associated cruft that you get with a Hybrid. One breakdown on Hwy 17 from Ottawa to Sudbury, (say, at Mattawa), and you'll have your answer. ###### From: J Ahlstrom Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:44:26 -0700 Organization: Cisco Systems Inc. Message-ID: <3D496569.B85D0F4E@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: sj-nntpcache-5!unknown@171.69.75.49 X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 30 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator2-SanJose!in.nntp.be!easynews!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113114 "MSCHAEF.COM" wrote: > In article , wrote: > > >I don't know the MPG (miles/gallon) of diesel, but diesel fuel > >around here (Massachusetts) costs more than gasoline. I keep > >getting surprised when I see the prices. > > Diesels typically get better mileage. That's one of the thing that amuses > me about the current focus on hybrid gas/electric cars. They either have > serious compromises in capacity (350 pounds total carrying capacity in > the Insight) or they make only 40-50mpg. Volkswagen Turbo Diesel cars are > also in that ballpark, and are based on simpler technology. > > -Mike > -- > http://www.mschaef.com What are the emission levels of the two technologies diesel and hybrid? JKA -- Ordinarily, I wouldn't've sent something quite like that, but I was a little fatigued and didn't have enough neurons firing in the inhibitory parts of my frontal cortex to prevent me from sending it. after R Praetorius ###### From: Jim Stewart Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:50:23 -0700 Organization: http://www.jkmicro.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: <8C2B82E4F8C9C58A.EF9240DD6DB2E684.F7303B4B50A56372@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: <3D4966CF.3DBE19AE@jkmicro.com> References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> Reply-To: jstewart@jkmicro.com Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Thu Aug 1 11:45:59 2002 NNTP-Posting-Host: !`%/h1k-W5n,;B)FV&2)EYVuU (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!cox.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!64.245.249.27.MISMATCH!jfk3-feed1.news.algx.net!allegiance!panix!howland.erols.net!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113124 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, > mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) wrote: > >In article <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net>, Jeff Teunissen > wrote: > > > >>Hummers run on diesel, which is usually a bit cheaper than gas. > > > >Not all of them. > > > >"The standard engine is a 6.5L diesel made by GM. A turbocharged version > >is available. For a few years, a 350 (cubic inch) gasoline engine was > >available, but it was discontinued as of 1997. " > > > >http://www.humvee.net/misc/humfaq.html > > I don't know the MPG (miles/gallon) of diesel, but diesel fuel > around here (Massachusetts) costs more than gasoline. I keep > getting surprised when I see the prices. It's not if you're a farmer and have tax-free ag diesel sitting in a tank on your farm (: ###### From: Mike K Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 17:52:44 +0100 Organization: Sun Microsystems Lines: 97 Message-ID: <3D49675C.A4B44876@sun.com> References: Reply-To: Mike.K.Smith@Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: sr-egmp03-02.uk.sun.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: new-usenet.uk.sun.com 1028220799 11471 129.156.85.108 (1 Aug 2002 16:53:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@new-usenet.uk.sun.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Aug 2002 16:53:19 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79C-CCK-MCD [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.8 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!isdnet!btnet-peer1!btnet-feed5!btnet!carbon.eu.sun.com!new-usenet.uk.sun.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113190 "MSCHAEF.COM" wrote: > > In article , > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote: > > >I'm grossly generalizing, but if you look at the engines available in > >the same car, you'll typically find things such as a choice between a > >1.6L gas and a 1.6L diesel, or some such. The diesel will get much > >better mileage than the gas engine--but put out substantially less power > >and torque, accellerate slowly, etc. > > This is the US Market Jetta: > > 2.0 liter 4-cyl > 115hp @ 5200rpm > 122ft-lbs @ 2600 rpm > MPG = 24/31 > Range = 348mi/449.5mi > 0-60 = 10.5 > > 1.9 liter TDI > 90hp @ 3750tpm (-21%) > 155 ft-lbs @ 1900 rpm (+27%) > MPG = 42/49 (+75%/+58%) > Range = 609mi/710mi (+75%/+58%) > 0-60 = 12.4 (+18%) > > I'm not saying that the TDI isn't slower, but I wouldn't go so far as to > say 'substantially' slower. Particularly considering the 75% increase in > fuel efficiency and added low-end torque. I understand that the european > markets get still more powerful diesels. Here's the comparison for the latest UK model Golf GTI 1.8 petrol vs 1.9 diesel. Top speed is identical, and 0-62 acceleration is within 0.1 sec. VW Golf GTI 1.9 PD (Diesel) Brake Horse Power 150 Engine cubic capacity 1896 Fuel Consumption Urban 39.2mpg - 7.2l/100km Extra-urban 64.2mpg - 4.4l/100km Combined 52.3mpg - 5.4l/100km Engine emissions 146g/km Engine noise levels 74.0dB Engine maximum Speed 134mph - 216km/h Engine acceleration 0-62mph 8.6secs Maximum output BHP 150 at RPM 4000 Maximum torque 236 lbs.ft / 320 Nm at RPM 1900 ------ VW Golf GTI 1.8 T (Petrol) Brake Horse Power 150 Engine cubic capacity 1781 Fuel Consumption Urban 26.2mpg - 10.8l/100km Extra-urban 44.8mpg - 6.3l/100km Combined 35.3mpg - 8.0l/100km Engine emissions 192g/km Engine noise levels 71.0dB Engine maximum Speed 134mph - 216km/h Engine acceleration 0-62mph 8.5secs Maximum output BHP 150 at RPM 5700 Maximum torque 155 lbs.ft / 210 Nm at RPM 4600 ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Doc Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (Linux) Lines: 26 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 17:07:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.69.202.179 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.austin.rr.com 1028221633 66.69.202.179 (Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:07:13 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:07:13 CDT Organization: Road Runner - Texas Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator2-SanJose!in.nntp.be!easynews!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone.austin.rr.com!twister.austin.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113167 On 1 Aug 2002 15:39:52 GMT, Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote: > In article , > MSCHAEF.COM wrote: >>In article , >>Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote: >> >>>FOr passenger vehicles, a diesel engine will typically get better >>>mileage than a gasoline engine of the same displacement. This does >>>*not* appear to be the general case for engines with the same >>>performance, however . . . Until my little brother bought his Excursion, I'd have agreed. It's the full-size, four-door Ford land-whale. Has the big deisel V8, turbo, yadda yadda, with air. We drove the V10 gasoline model while he was shopping, and the gas engine _might_ cut the deisel by a few hundredths of a second, from a standing start. On a rolling start or accelerating from highway speeds, I can't tell the difference. The SOB is _stout_. That damn thing gets about 16 mpg. I don't have exact numbers for the gas model, but it can't get close to that. More like 12mpg. I will grant that as the car gets lighter, and the engine gets smaller, the mileage difference between gas & diesel is smaller and the performance gap is wider. But we were talking about a Hummer, right? Doc ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D496569.B85D0F4E@cisco.com> Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 14 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 13:33:03 CDT X-Trace: sv3-AftzqcbW5OfG1N6EG3ctjBKRhWN9n83pD+J6apdwwiywhlVa6B+/cVq6Q3YUyVXYdzlP0GxM10dEE7P!sExHWeQoqr/LVzfq2TwSVinjXHArYxdqAR9SoOg//Fr9t5y5jIt2PuUjhYI9Eh05DuljfAkP5f7n!jSVDhh2J64G/kZ6xoU275A== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 18:33:03 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn1feed!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!216.166.71.11!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113207 In article <3D496569.B85D0F4E@cisco.com>, J Ahlstrom wrote: >What are the emission levels of the two technologies diesel and hybrid? I'm guessing that diesel is significantly worse as far as tailpipe emissions goes. As to what happens when the car has to be disposed of or maintained, it seems less clear, what with the batteries and whatnot of the hybrid. Assuming that both can be improved, my inclination would have been to try to improve the diesel first. -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### From: stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> Organization: Metropolis Grafix Reply-To: stanb@dial.pipex.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.2 UNIX) Date: 01 Aug 2002 18:39:01 GMT Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62-190-203-241.pdu.pipex.net X-Trace: 1028227141 news.dial.pipex.com 236 62.190.203.241 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!gatel-ffm!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!lnewspeer00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspeer01.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewsifeed03.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113131 On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:47:54 +0000 (UTC), Rupert Pigott wrote: > >The hybrids I'm aware of reportedly do better than 40-50, we're >talking more in the 50-80 range. I've measured my 603cc 2CV (made >in '84) at 45mpg on several long A road trips (UK). :) None of my lead-foot friend's 2CVs would better 40 (uk)mpg :-) When he changed to driving Minis we made several trips where he got over 50(UK)mpg (998cc Mini) at average speeds the 2CV just couldn't manage... For US readers, 50 UK mpg = 40 US mpg. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 18:46:57 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <1028227617snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1028240182 mail2news:7202 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 29 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113194 In article hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu "Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" writes: > FOr passenger vehicles, a diesel engine will typically get better > mileage than a gasoline engine of the same displacement. This does > *not* appear to be the general case for engines with the same > performance, however . . . Diesel engined passenger vehicles typically have larger engines than their gasoline counterparts; however, these larger engines typically manage better than 60% increase on mpg over the gasoline ones. The larger engines are there to give "comparable" performance. The F1 racing driver Jensen Button, because of his tender years, is not allowed to drive a gasoline engined vehicle on French roads; so he has a BMW with a diesel. He was caught by the French police last year doing over 200km/h, and still getting better than NINE miles to the litre. (I have an ancient Austin Maestro with a diesel engine; cruises happily on the motorway at 100mph, and yet returns 10 miles/litre. In normal driving back and forth to work, etc., where I probably rarely exceed 60mph, I regularly achieve 12 miles/litre.) -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 18:54:41 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> References: X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1028240187 mail2news:7206 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!newsfeeder.ewetel.de!news.vew-telnet.net!news.tmr.net!news.ruhr-uni-bochum.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113192 In article mschaef_ng@mschaef.com writes: > In article , > Rupert Pigott wrote: > > > I've measured my 603cc 2CV (made > >in '84) at 45mpg on several long A road trips (UK). :) > > Wow. :-) Remember that Rupert is probably quoting miles per IMPERIAL gallon, which is considerably larger than the US one. (This is one reason why I quote fuel efficiency here in miles per LITRE; the other is that in the UK one buys one's fuel in litres, but the odometers are usually in miles: so it's the easiest, if somewhat mixed, unit to adopt.) -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 18:58:03 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <1028228283snz@dsl.co.uk> References: X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1028240194 mail2news:7210 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 31 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113193 In article mschaef_ng@mschaef.com writes: > 1.9 liter TDI > 90hp @ 3750tpm (-21%) > 155 ft-lbs @ 1900 rpm (+27%) > MPG = 42/49 (+75%/+58%) > Range = 609mi/710mi (+75%/+58%) > 0-60 = 12.4 (+18%) > > I'm not saying that the TDI isn't slower, but I wouldn't go so far as to > say 'substantially' slower. Particularly considering the 75% increase in > fuel efficiency and added low-end torque. I understand that the european > markets get still more powerful diesels. Well, yes: a 1.9l diesel is usually the smallest installed in a car (with the exception, guffaw, of the 1.7l in the Vauxhaul Corsa). My partner's Renault Biarritz has a 1.9l diesel engine; the petrol equivalent was only 1.6l. My Austin Maestro has a 2.0l diesel engine; the petrol equivalent was 1.3l, with a higher-performance 1.6l option. Also, whilst the 0--60 acceleration of a diesel car may look ludicrously bad compared to a petrol one, the acceleration in the 40--70 range is usually vastly superior (and doesn't entail changing gear either). -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 19:02:43 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <1028228563snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <8C2B82E4F8C9C58A.EF9240DD6DB2E684.F7303B4B50A56372@lp.airnews.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1028240202 mail2news:7214 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113195 In article <8C2B82E4F8C9C58A.EF9240DD6DB2E684.F7303B4B50A56372@lp.airnews.net> jstewart@jkmicro.com "Jim Stewart" writes: > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > > > I don't know the MPG (miles/gallon) of diesel, but diesel fuel > > around here (Massachusetts) costs more than gasoline. I keep > > getting surprised when I see the prices. > > It's not if you're a farmer and have tax-free ag diesel sitting in a > tank on your farm (: Over here in the UK it's a criminal offence to use that stuff in a vehicle on the road (apart from a tractor moving along the highway from one part of a farm to another). The diesel supplied duty-free for those purposes has a red dye additive, and this leaves a residue in tanks which can be detected post facto by HM Customs and Excise, even after all the "red diesel" has been used and the tank refilled with the "legal" variant. An odd factoid emerged at the time of last year's fuel-tax protests: apparently in the Irish Republic, the duty-free fuel has a different coloured additive, and some "entrepreneurial types" discovered that if one mixed Irish ag-diesel (smuggled across the border into NI) with UK ag-diesel, the dyes counteracted each other and the fuel was left looking reasonably normal... -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 19:08:57 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <1028228937snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3D496569.B85D0F4E@cisco.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1028240210 mail2news:7218 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!eusc.inter.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113197 In article mschaef_ng@mschaef.com writes: > In article <3D496569.B85D0F4E@cisco.com>, > J Ahlstrom wrote: > > >What are the emission levels of the two technologies diesel and hybrid? > > I'm guessing that diesel is significantly worse as far as tailpipe > emissions goes. You're guessing wrongly, then. The *gases* in the exhaust on the diesel are clean; cleaner than systems using lead-free gasoline and catalytic converters. (By clean, I mean lower in "greenhouse gases", lower in unburnt hydrocarbons, lower in nitrous and other oxides, etc.) Where they fall down is in /particulate/ emissions; essentially, specks of soot, which have been blamed for triggering asthma attacks, etc. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: David Powell Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 20:26:57 +0100 Organization: Nextra UK Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <5jodkuc27gq3h2c2hbsr387vv9usask4cd@4ax.com> Reply-To: ddotpowell@icuknet.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: 170.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: thorium.cix.co.uk 1028230246 7860 212.35.235.170 (1 Aug 2002 19:30:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@net.nextra.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 19:30:46 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!lon1-news.nildram.net!peernews.cix.co.uk!news.nextra.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113200 In article , Pete Fenelon in alt.folklore.computers wrote: >David Powell wrote: >> >> I think Glosters are still trading, under the name Gloster Saro, > >Wouldn't be where Saunders Roe (the flying boat people) ended up, would >it? > Aha! Good thinking. Given A.V.Roe ->"Avro", it's now obvious, but I hadn't made the connexion. Perhaps a better name than the brutally descriptive "Activated Sludge Ltd.", a Hawker Siddeley company which produced equipment to hasten the decomposition of sewage. Regards, David P. ###### From: "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 1 Aug 2002 19:49:03 GMT Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <1027536097snz@dsl.co.uk> <14U%8.77399$WsS.55136@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <5jodkuc27gq3h2c2hbsr387vv9usask4cd@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1028231343 6527 134.117.136.30 (1 Aug 2002 19:49:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Aug 2002 19:49:03 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (SunOS) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!dca6-feed2.news.algx.net!allegiance!nntp.abs.net!news-peer-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113187 On Thu, 01 Aug 2002 20:26:57 +0100, David Powell wrote: > > Aha! Good thinking. Given A.V.Roe ->"Avro", it's now obvious, but I > hadn't made the connexion. Perhaps a better name than the brutally > descriptive "Activated Sludge Ltd.", a Hawker Siddeley company which > produced equipment to hasten the decomposition of sewage. And here I always thought of A.S.L. as recruiters. Silly me. ###### From: Elliott Roper Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 22:32:27 +0100 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <010820022232276225%elliott@yrl.co.uk> References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3D496569.B85D0F4E@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Thoth/1.5.5 (Carbon/OS X) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 40 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!news-in-sanjose!in.nntp.be!easynews!ps01-sjc1!news.webusenet.com!sn-xit-05!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!elliott Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113147 In article <3D496569.B85D0F4E@cisco.com>, J Ahlstrom wrote: > > What are the emission levels of the two technologies diesel and hybrid? > Diesel fuel is denser than petrol. A diesel engine's numbers don't look so great in Kg/100Km. They do operate hotter, so they should be getting a little more of the fuel energy into mechanical energy. If you worry about fossil carbon in the atmosphere, or about carcinogenic particulates from ill-maintained diesels, you might want to stay with spark ignition engines, or at any rate, with the car you already have. A passenger car spends about 1/5 of its lifetime pollution budget during manufacture. Hybrids, with an extra energy conversion stage, can't compete on raw emission, except for the tiny amount of braking re-generation available. They are capable of exporting their carbon emissions and carcinogens to less populated areas. This may be a plus to some urbanites. Vehicles designed from the ground up for energy effiicency and low pollution do well regardless of fuel energy conversion method, with the possible exception of pure electrics using yet-to-be-invented green batteries charged from nuclear plant. And we all know how popular that will be. SUVs, great chromium encrusted highway whales, and muscle cars won't win any green awards, even if they deliver their torque via rubber bands lovingly hand tensioned by illegal immigrants. regards, Elliott, (who has just bought a V8 highway whale with enough aluminium in it to have blacked out a small town for days while it was being refined). ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 21:42:03 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-131-213.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: knossos.btinternet.com 1028238123 22288 213.1.131.213 (1 Aug 2002 21:42:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 21:42:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113171 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote in message news:slrnakinr7.ei3.ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca... > On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:47:54 +0000 (UTC), Rupert Pigott > wrote: > > > > The hybrids I'm aware of reportedly do better than 40-50, we're > > talking more in the 50-80 range. I've measured my 603cc 2CV (made > > in '84) at 45mpg on several long A road trips (UK). :) > > Strong tail wind, windows rolled up, aftermarket front air dam ... Actually on one of those trips it was a filthy day. Headwind all the way, couldn't slipstream trucks like I usually do (too much spray made it impossibly dangerous). Windows were definately *folded down*, the roof was battened down too. Filthy filthy weather it was. I did get a 53mpg result once, but I discarded it as suspicious, stood out too much, but then again it was motorway driving with lots of slipstreaming so it could be real. You notice mileage in a 2CV because they have tiny tanks. :) Cheers, Rupert ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 21:44:08 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-131-213.in-addr.btopenworld.com X-Trace: helle.btinternet.com 1028238248 23753 213.1.131.213 (1 Aug 2002 21:44:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 21:44:08 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.f.de.plusline.net!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsrouter.chello.at!amsnews01.chello.com!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113160 "Stan Barr" wrote in message news:slrnakiuhb.4fk.stanb@citadel.metropolis.local... > On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:47:54 +0000 (UTC), Rupert Pigott > wrote: > > > >The hybrids I'm aware of reportedly do better than 40-50, we're > >talking more in the 50-80 range. I've measured my 603cc 2CV (made > >in '84) at 45mpg on several long A road trips (UK). :) > > None of my lead-foot friend's 2CVs would better 40 (uk)mpg :-) > > When he changed to driving Minis we made several trips where he got > over 50(UK)mpg (998cc Mini) at average speeds the 2CV just couldn't > manage... For US readers, 50 UK mpg = 40 US mpg. Minis are awesome little cars... If they weren't inevitably hacked to pieces or over-priced I'd be driving one. :) Cheers, Rupert ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <1028228283snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 13 Message-ID: <_ui29.17237$vg.661111@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 17:20:42 CDT X-Trace: sv3-h7xP4Z5yjL6gZMercIM/yrYbfCWZ6K2/mM9xnPsSc+uOuJ9FbD1u/VptuQNRBLCd/F1SAm/AEx+4igT!Hp/1e/WkavyfvgkRDeZCOPWEl25ujhgdoC9ltZC4GKUjmHJsXnYjcmFaabZYNRixIeq7aOTL94I8!+B/TIfxKKg+uGhTK19AMBA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 22:20:42 GMT X-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 00:21:00 MET DST (news01.chello.no) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!news.powertech.no!newsfeed1.ulv.nextra.no!nextra.com!news01.chello.no!news01.chello.se!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!news-in-sanjose!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113208 In article <1028228283snz@dsl.co.uk>, Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: >Also, whilst the 0--60 acceleration of a diesel car may look ludicrously >bad compared to a petrol one, the acceleration in the 40--70 range is >usually vastly superior (and doesn't entail changing gear either). That's part of the reason the VW TDI cars have appeal to me. 155lb-ft at 1900rpm is pretty formidable. -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <1028227617snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@eris.io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 10 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 17:22:01 CDT X-Trace: sv3-42Pqu+UY5kEitgwlGfIRMSA41O3leKaM2IsE1MBbS/RAVgqsWn089S3rXDD+e6oqlh4tx3tZD89+CwU!XycpyZjQpsbEiTTTu5G2n2Zc4lJF8chJlT0ECXk5aj4G3k1kvgxo0FowYDsvmBQGc/b0doJ3fWsI!e1zMu6BXHzajISUB6la2gw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 22:22:01 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.frii.net!newsfeed.frii.net!easynews!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113209 In article <1028227617snz@dsl.co.uk>, Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: >The F1 racing driver Jensen Button, because of his tender years, is not >allowed to drive a gasoline engined vehicle on French roads; Is this part of some form of license grading? Is the gasoline exclusion strictly designed to restrict available performance? -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 00:31:07 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <1028248267snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <1028227617snz@dsl.co.uk> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1028271197 mail2news:11555 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 28 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113196 In article mschaef_ng@mschaef.com writes: > In article <1028227617snz@dsl.co.uk>, > Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > > >The F1 racing driver Jensen Button, because of his tender years, is not > >allowed to drive a gasoline engined vehicle on French roads; > > Is this part of some form of license grading? Is the gasoline exclusion > strictly designed to restrict available performance? I believe that's the intention, yes. In France, no one under the age of 21 (or perhaps it's 25; whatever, back in 200[01] Jensen Button was below the threshhold) is permitted to drive any petrol-engined car (or perhaps its "a petrol-engined car exceeding [something like] one litre in capacity"). But they can drive any diesel. Presumably it IS intended to keep powerful cars out of the hands of inexperienced drivers, but the legislators reckoned without BMW, Mercedes, et alia producing "performance diesels". -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <8lJ19.20984$nm.991578@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> From: Bernd Felsche User-Agent: nn/6.6.3 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:34:09 +0800 Message-ID: Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Host: innovative.iinet.net.au X-Trace: news.iinet.net.au 1028260041 10216 203.59.144.24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!news-in-sanjose!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!news.iinet.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113172 hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) writes: >In article , >Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >>MSCHAEF.COM (mschaef@eris.io.com) writes: >>> This is a naive question, but why is gas so much more in Ottawa >>> than it is in the states? Is it just that people around here >>> complain so much about higher gas taxes? I understand (and have >>> seen personally) that US gas prices are generally quite low. >> Because the traitors who negotiated the so-called free trade agreement >> and its follow-on NAFTA ensured that Canada had to give a certain >> amount of oil and natural gas to the USA. As for softwood lumber, >> well that's a whole different story, ain't it. >??? >Your *taxes* on it our higher than our prices; supply is purely >secondary. >hawk, a free trade economist, still trying to figure out what NAFTA had >to do with free trade The suppression of free trade. Government jargon. Like the Employment office deals with the unemployed; the health department deals with sick people; the fraud squad ... :-) Didn't you people ever get to see the "Yes, Minister" BBC TV series? -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature / \ and postings | to help me spread! ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 24.67.16.79 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: <8lJ19.20984$nm.991578@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 04:48:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news1.calgary.shaw.ca 1028263712 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 01 Aug 2002 22:48:32 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 22:48:32 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com.MISMATCH!ps01-sjc1!news.webusenet.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news1.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113180 On Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:34:09 +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: >hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) writes: > >>In article , >>Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >>>MSCHAEF.COM (mschaef@eris.io.com) writes: > >>>> This is a naive question, but why is gas so much more in Ottawa >>>> than it is in the states? Is it just that people around here >>>> complain so much about higher gas taxes? I understand (and have >>>> seen personally) that US gas prices are generally quite low. > >>> Because the traitors who negotiated the so-called free trade agreement >>> and its follow-on NAFTA ensured that Canada had to give a certain >>> amount of oil and natural gas to the USA. As for softwood lumber, >>> well that's a whole different story, ain't it. > >>??? > >>Your *taxes* on it our higher than our prices; supply is purely >>secondary. > >>hawk, a free trade economist, still trying to figure out what NAFTA had >>to do with free trade > >The suppression of free trade. > >Government jargon. Like the Employment office deals with the >unemployed; the health department deals with sick people; the fraud >squad ... :-) > >Didn't you people ever get to see the "Yes, Minister" BBC TV series? Still running on Y(outh)TV, and the sequel, "Yes, Prime Minister" -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov spam traps ###### From: Per Andersson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:26:50 +0200 Lines: 29 Message-ID: <3D4A262A.4090603@foi.se> References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: custos.foi.se (150.227.16.253) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1028270478 36311881 150.227.16.253 (16 [114048]) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!custos.foi.SE!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113174 MSCHAEF.COM wrote: > In article , wrote: > > >>I don't know the MPG (miles/gallon) of diesel, but diesel fuel >>around here (Massachusetts) costs more than gasoline. I keep >>getting surprised when I see the prices. >> > > Diesels typically get better mileage. That's one of the thing that amuses > me about the current focus on hybrid gas/electric cars. They either have > serious compromises in capacity (350 pounds total carrying capacity in > the Insight) or they make only 40-50mpg. Volkswagen Turbo Diesel cars are > also in that ballpark, and are based on simpler technology. > > -Mike > I am a happy owner of a VW Lupo Turbo Diesel. Due to the low weight and fancy gearbox the car will make almost 90 MPG on the highway. The car is in Sweden a bit more expensive than other cars of the same size (~1000$ more than the plain Lupo) but I can tell you all that it feels good to fill only 5-6 gallons after a week of 500 miles commuting when diesel costs 3.5 $/gallon (gas is 4$/gallon). /Per ###### From: Per Andersson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:33:15 +0200 Lines: 24 Message-ID: <3D4A27AB.4020605@foi.se> References: <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: custos.foi.se (150.227.16.253) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1028270862 36965212 150.227.16.253 (16 [114048]) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!custos.foi.SE!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113175 Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote: >> > > FOr passenger vehicles, a diesel engine will typically get better > mileage than a gasoline engine of the same displacement. This does > *not* appear to be the general case for engines with the same > performance, however . . . > > hawk > > The efficiency of the combustion differs. The efficiency of a gasoline engine is of the order of 30% compared to 40% for a diesel engine. As gasoline engines usually revs higher and have the peak in torque at a higher rev they often have more HP but compare the max torque! Try the MB 400 CDI, there is no lack of performance there and that car will get 40% more MPG compared to the gasoline version. /Per ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 2 Aug 2002 08:18:18 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <1028227617snz@dsl.co.uk> <1028248267snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1028276298 11252 134.117.136.30 (2 Aug 2002 08:18:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Aug 2002 08:18:18 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-peer-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113162 Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) writes: > I believe that's the intention, yes. In France, no one under the age of > 21 ... "a petrol-engined car exceeding [something like] one litre in > capacity"). But they can drive any diesel. > > Presumably it IS intended to keep powerful cars out of the hands of > inexperienced drivers, but the legislators reckoned without BMW, > Mercedes, et alia producing "performance diesels". (Sorry for the poor edit of this follow-up) So a few years ago, Ontario introduced the concept of Graduated Driver's Licenses. A total botch-up - to this day, some young bucks still insert their genetic material into trees at speed. (I have yet to see trees growing red tinted spiked foliage on top.) This plan was then applied to watercraft countrywide - i.e. forty years ago, I could operate an 18 foot boat with a 15 hp Evinrude outboard; but today the paperwork would sink the old cedar strip boat. Of course, back then, I'd never seen a punched card deck. Now that would have made me leave the boat on the trailer as I delved into the mysteries of Fortran. B-) ###### Message-ID: <3D4A573A.80500@telegraphics.com.au> From: Toby Thain User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.0rc3) Gecko/20020523 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.134.29.156 Lines: 15 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Organization: iPrimus Customer - reports relating to abuse should be sent to abuse@iprimus.com.au Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 19:56:10 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.134.67.67 X-Complaints-To: news@primus.ca X-Trace: news.tor.primus.ca 1028268165 203.134.67.67 (Fri, 02 Aug 2002 02:02:45 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 02:02:45 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.cgocable.net!feed.tor.primus.ca!feed.nntp.primus!news.tor.primus.ca!news.iprimus.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113152 Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > In article > mschaef_ng@mschaef.com writes: > > >... > Remember that Rupert is probably quoting miles per IMPERIAL gallon, which > is considerably larger than the US one. (This is one reason why I quote > fuel efficiency here in miles per LITRE;... And you'd be doing that a lot, naturally, this being alt.folklore.computers :-) Toby ###### From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 2 Aug 2002 14:36:09 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: slytherin.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113133 In article , Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >On 1 Aug 2002 15:16:37 GMT, Dr. Richard E. Hawkins > wrote: >> hawk, a free trade economist, still trying to figure out what NAFTA had >> to do with free trade > Ask any Canadian logger. THey could tell me how it gets in the way of free trade, perhaps. I'd be hard-pressed to spend 400 words to describe free trade, and NAFTA is 400 pages . . . hawk -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 2 Aug 2002 14:50:14 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: slytherin.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113126 In article <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk>, Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: >In article > mschaef_ng@mschaef.com writes: >> In article , >> Rupert Pigott wrote: >> > I've measured my 603cc 2CV (made >> >in '84) at 45mpg on several long A road trips (UK). :) >> Wow. :-) >Remember that Rupert is probably quoting miles per IMPERIAL gallon, which >is considerably larger than the US one. Yes, but keep in mind that in the Western US, the miles are bigger . . . hawk, Nevadan in exile -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 2 Aug 2002 14:56:50 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <8C2B82E4F8C9C58A.EF9240DD6DB2E684.F7303B4B50A56372@lp.airnews.net> <1028228563snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: slytherin.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113134 In article <1028228563snz@dsl.co.uk>, Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: >In article <8C2B82E4F8C9C58A.EF9240DD6DB2E684.F7303B4B50A56372@lp.airnews.net> > jstewart@jkmicro.com "Jim Stewart" writes: >> It's not if you're a farmer and have tax-free ag diesel sitting in a >> tank on your farm (: >Over here in the UK it's a criminal offence to use that stuff in a >vehicle on the road (apart from a tractor moving along the highway from >one part of a farm to another). The diesel supplied duty-free for those >purposes has a red dye additive, and this leaves a residue in tanks which >can be detected post facto by HM Customs and Excise, even after all the >"red diesel" has been used and the tank refilled with the "legal" >variant. We use that, too, and it's quite illegal. I've never heard of a passenger car being inspected, but I actually saw a dye inspection checkpoint for trucks on 80 a couple of weeks ago; I'd never seen one before. hawk -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Supersedes: Date: 2 Aug 2002 15:10:19 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <1028227617snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: slytherin.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113135 In article <1028227617snz@dsl.co.uk>, Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: >The F1 racing driver Jensen Button, because of his tender years, is not >allowed to drive a gasoline engined vehicle on French roads; so he has a >BMW with a diesel. He was caught by the French police last year doing >over 200km/h, and still getting better than NINE miles to the litre. I take it he's no longer allowed to drive diesels, either? :) hawk, wondering how they caught him in those little toy cars the french police drive -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:53:16 +0100 Message-ID: <1028303596.13410.0.nnrp-14.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <1028227617snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: "Peter Ibbotson" NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1028303596 nnrp-14:13410 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1050 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1050 Lines: 29 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113186 "Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote in message news:aie7cr$12e4@r02n01.cac.psu.edu... > In article <1028227617snz@dsl.co.uk>, > Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > > >The F1 racing driver Jensen Button, because of his tender years, is not > >allowed to drive a gasoline engined vehicle on French roads; so he has a > >BMW with a diesel. He was caught by the French police last year doing > >over 200km/h, and still getting better than NINE miles to the litre. > > I take it he's no longer allowed to drive diesels, either? :) > > hawk, wondering how they caught him in those little toy cars the french > police drive > There's a plan a foot as part of a drive to cut road deaths to use the time stamps on paege tickets to catch drivers for speeding. Of course this being France this will produce massive protests from the lorry drivers and it will all quietly be forgotten about. However this may well mean the end of my speeding career on french motorways. -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### From: stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> Organization: Metropolis Grafix Reply-To: stanb@dial.pipex.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.2 UNIX) Date: 02 Aug 2002 17:33:07 GMT Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62-190-201-6.pdu.pipex.net X-Trace: 1028309587 news.dial.pipex.com 8510 62.190.201.6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet!lnewspeer01.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewsifeed01.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113127 On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 21:44:08 +0000 (UTC), Rupert Pigott wrote: > >"Stan Barr" wrote in message >news:slrnakiuhb.4fk.stanb@citadel.metropolis.local... >> >> When he changed to driving Minis we made several trips where he got >> over 50(UK)mpg (998cc Mini) at average speeds the 2CV just couldn't >> manage... For US readers, 50 UK mpg = 40 US mpg. > >Minis are awesome little cars... If they weren't inevitably >hacked to pieces or over-priced I'd be driving one. :) My friend now drives a 3-series BMW, but he has a Mini engined sports car (a GTM) with a highly tuned engine, that leaves the BM for dead, buried and the ground patted down flat :-) Minis are great fun but a $%^&* to work on - I've lost more skin off my knuckles on them than anything else! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! ###### From: "janS" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Lines: 30 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Inktomi-Trace: pc1-ipsw1-4-cust1.col.cable.ntl.com 1028321304 8102 213.107.244.1 (2 Aug 2002 20:48:24 GMT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:08:08 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.3.128.5 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net 1028321306 80.3.128.5 (Fri, 02 Aug 2002 21:48:26 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 21:48:26 BST Organization: ntl News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113210 "Rupert Pigott" wrote in message news:ai6knd$rrc$1@paris.btinternet.com... > "MSCHAEF.COM" wrote in message > news:hFx19.13775$cm.555571@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com... > > In article , > > [SNIP] > > > I suppose that even that's not entirely true. I've been in several > > situations where a line of traffic stops on the freeway. I'll put my > > hazards on to warn preceeding traffic of the problem, but it's always > > concerned me what I'd do if they didn't notice. I suppose an SUV would > > allow escape into the median more easily than a sedan or sports car. > > 2CV's have that one well covered... Escaping up verges and stuff > is easy & painless. Speed bumps are usually pretty painless too. > They are still built a little too feebly though, I think you could > do something much safer these days for the same weight. :) > > Cheers, > Rupert > > Ah, but remember, when 2CVs gets hit/hits something, all that energy is dissapated by the car (i.e. it falls to bits) rather than the occupants. (my SO's got one too - since new ('86)) -- Remove guts to reply ###### From: "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 2 Aug 2002 20:16:36 GMT Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1028319396 10264 134.117.136.30 (2 Aug 2002 20:16:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Aug 2002 20:16:36 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (SunOS) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.triton.net!news-out.triton.net!newsfeeder.triton.net!newsfeeder.triton.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113214 On 2 Aug 2002 14:50:14 GMT, Dr. Richard E. Hawkins > > Yes, but keep in mind that in the Western US, the miles are bigger . . . But (in some states, IIRC), so are the speed limits. And there aren't so many potholes, if the pictures are accurate. Mind you, this year there's more danger from fire than frost as one drives in that region. ###### From: D.J. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 15:55:29 -0500 Organization: TychoTown Tycho Crater Ice Cream Parlour Message-ID: Distribution: world Reply-To: blue7green@cheesenocrosswinds.net References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-05!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113213 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: ] On 2 Aug 2002 14:50:14 GMT, Dr. Richard E. Hawkins ] > ] > Yes, but keep in mind that in the Western US, the miles are bigger . . . ] ] But (in some states, IIRC), so are the speed limits. And there ] aren't so many potholes, if the pictures are accurate. Mind you, ] this year there's more danger from fire than frost as one drives ] in that region. I think it has to do with attitudes towards long distances as well. When I was living in Texas, folks didn't seemuch unusual in driving as much as 70 miles to go see a movie because their small town theater had only one screen and didn't change movies often. Since then I've lived in Maryland and Virginia, and folks think of driving 10 miles to see a moivie as a long distance. JimP. ###### From: J. Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 19:00:31 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: <1028227617snz@dsl.co.uk> <1028303596.13410.0.nnrp-14.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-997.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!199.106.71.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113237 In article <1028303596.13410.0.nnrp-14.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk>, spambox@ibbotson.co.uk says... > "Dr. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote in message > news:aie7cr$12e4@r02n01.cac.psu.edu... > > In article <1028227617snz@dsl.co.uk>, > > Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > > > > >The F1 racing driver Jensen Button, because of his tender years, is not > > >allowed to drive a gasoline engined vehicle on French roads; so he has a > > >BMW with a diesel. He was caught by the French police last year doing > > >over 200km/h, and still getting better than NINE miles to the litre. > > > > I take it he's no longer allowed to drive diesels, either? :) > > > > hawk, wondering how they caught him in those little toy cars the french > > police drive > > > > > There's a plan a foot as part of a drive to cut road deaths to use the time > stamps on paege tickets to catch drivers for speeding. Of course this being > France this will produce massive protests from the lorry drivers and it will > all quietly be forgotten about. > However this may well mean the end of my speeding career on french > motorways. Not sure what a page ticket is but if it's anything like the tickets that are given out at toll booths in the US, the way to defeat that on a long trip is to stop off for lunch. > > -- > Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply > Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX > > > -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### From: J. Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 19:04:22 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-115.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113232 In article , blue7green@cheesenocrosswinds.net says... > "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > ] On 2 Aug 2002 14:50:14 GMT, Dr. Richard E. Hawkins > ] > > ] > Yes, but keep in mind that in the Western US, the miles are bigger . . . > ] > ] But (in some states, IIRC), so are the speed limits. And there > ] aren't so many potholes, if the pictures are accurate. Mind you, > ] this year there's more danger from fire than frost as one drives > ] in that region. > > I think it has to do with attitudes towards long distances as well. > > When I was living in Texas, folks didn't seemuch unusual in driving > as much as 70 miles to go see a movie because their small town > theater had only one screen and didn't change movies often. > > Since then I've lived in Maryland and Virginia, and folks think of > driving 10 miles to see a moivie as a long distance. I remember asking a girl to have dinner with me once. She worked across the street from the airport that serves Hartford. Her response, in shocked tones, was "all the way to _Hartford_". I thought living where I am would be nice because it's equidistant from NY and Boston and a (long) daytrip to either. I reckoned without the New England attitude toward driving distance. -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### From: J. Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 19:07:03 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 53 Message-ID: References: <3D47AC86.DD10A947@d2dc.net> <7PS19.26435$nm.1219755@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com> <3D496569.B85D0F4E@cisco.com> <010820022232276225%elliott@yrl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-178.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113236 In article <010820022232276225%elliott@yrl.co.uk>, elliott@yrl.co.uk says... > In article <3D496569.B85D0F4E@cisco.com>, J Ahlstrom > wrote: > > > > > What are the emission levels of the two technologies diesel and hybrid? > > > Diesel fuel is denser than petrol. > > A diesel engine's numbers don't look so great in Kg/100Km. > > They do operate hotter, so they should be getting a little more of the > fuel energy into mechanical energy. > > If you worry about fossil carbon in the atmosphere, or about > carcinogenic particulates from ill-maintained diesels, you might want > to stay with spark ignition engines, or at any rate, with the car you > already have. A passenger car spends about 1/5 of its lifetime > pollution budget during manufacture. > > Hybrids, with an extra energy conversion stage, can't compete on raw > emission, except for the tiny amount of braking re-generation > available. > > They are capable of exporting their carbon emissions and carcinogens to > less populated areas. This may be a plus to some urbanites. > > Vehicles designed from the ground up for energy effiicency and low > pollution do well regardless of fuel energy conversion method, with the > possible exception of pure electrics using yet-to-be-invented green > batteries charged from nuclear plant. And we all know how popular that > will be. > > SUVs, great chromium encrusted highway whales, Hey, my highway whale is not chromium encrusted. > and muscle cars won't > win any green awards, even if they deliver their torque via rubber > bands lovingly hand tensioned by illegal immigrants. > > regards, > Elliott, > (who has just bought a V8 highway whale with enough aluminium in it to > have blacked out a small town for days while it was being refined). > -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### From: huw.davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 3 Aug 2002 05:06:19 GMT Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 33 Sender: Huw Davies Message-ID: <3259EB6E63C4E243.FC65490726EFC08E.C89B1E5FD7E73878@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: References: <1bofcneeil.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Sat Aug 3 00:06:19 2002 NNTP-Posting-Host: !a+D,1k-We+b$X<@W`H&E-<+5 (Encoded at Airnews!) User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.20 (alpha)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!cabal2.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113220 J. Clarke wrote: > In article <1bofcneeil.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu says... >> greymaus writes: >> > >> > Are there Hummers built for civvy use?. I read that Schwartznegger has >> > one. Is it legal to drive a vehicle with centre steering on roads in >> > USA?. ( The first Land Rovers had centre steering, but that was in >> > more relaxed days) >> >> Yes, Hummers are built for civilian use (in fact, the ``Hummer'' name >> is only for the civilian version; the military is still trying to get >> people to call theirs HUMVEE or some closely related acronym). > High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle--HMMWV. It's the "Hummer" > like the A-10 is the "Warthog"--doesn't matter what the _official_ > designation might be. >> I could have sworn the steering was on the left... > And it's on the left in every Hummer I've ever seen. Well there are a fair few Hummers in Melbourne with the steering wheel on the correct (right hand) side. Now our roads are in general bigger than those in the UK, but a Hummer would be a real pain to use day to day. My daily driver is a Mercedes A-class and sometimes parking that can be problematical. Typical petrol prices are AUD$90c (~50c) per litre so a Hummer would be expensive to run too. -- Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" ###### From: D.J. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 07:10:33 -0500 Organization: TychoTown Tycho Crater Ice Cream Parlour Message-ID: Distribution: world Reply-To: blue7green@cheesenocrosswinds.net References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D4AFEC9.FBF3EEC8@cisco.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 11 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!isdnet!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113249 J Ahlstrom wrote: ] Or as someone recently observed: ] Europeans think 100 miles is a long distance. ] Americans think 100 years is a long time. In a way. But some of the folks I grew up with in Texas would discuss events that happened more than a hundred years ago as if they were less than ten years ago. JimP. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 3 Aug 2002 13:55:09 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D4AFEC9.FBF3EEC8@cisco.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1028382909 13249 134.117.136.30 (3 Aug 2002 13:55:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Aug 2002 13:55:09 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113243 D.J. (blue7green@cheesenocrosswinds.net) writes: > J Ahlstrom wrote: > ] Or as someone recently observed: > ] Europeans think 100 miles is a long distance. > ] Americans think 100 years is a long time. > > In a way. But some of the folks I grew up with in Texas would > discuss events that happened more than a hundred years ago as if > they were less than ten years ago. Ya, those Hatfield(s) and McCoys did wander a bit, IIRC. B-) ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 24.67.16.79 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: <7csnkuse482hf3r1226k0feh50p5qfhd26@4ax.com> References: <1bofcneeil.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <3259EB6E63C4E243.FC65490726EFC08E.C89B1E5FD7E73878@lp.airnews.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 15:12:24 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news3.calgary.shaw.ca 1028387544 24.71.223.147 (Sat, 03 Aug 2002 09:12:24 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 09:12:24 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!ps01-sjc1!news.webusenet.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news3.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113247 On 3 Aug 2002 05:06:19 GMT, huw.davies@kerberos.davies.net.au wrote: >J. Clarke wrote: >> In article <1bofcneeil.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu says... >>> greymaus writes: >>> > >>> > Are there Hummers built for civvy use?. I read that Schwartznegger has >>> > one. Is it legal to drive a vehicle with centre steering on roads in >>> > USA?. ( The first Land Rovers had centre steering, but that was in >>> > more relaxed days) >>> >>> Yes, Hummers are built for civilian use (in fact, the ``Hummer'' name >>> is only for the civilian version; the military is still trying to get >>> people to call theirs HUMVEE or some closely related acronym). > >> High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle--HMMWV. It's the "Hummer" >> like the A-10 is the "Warthog"--doesn't matter what the _official_ >> designation might be. > >>> I could have sworn the steering was on the left... > >> And it's on the left in every Hummer I've ever seen. > >Well there are a fair few Hummers in Melbourne with the steering wheel on >the correct (right hand) side. Now our roads are in general bigger than >those in the UK, but a Hummer would be a real pain to use day to day. >My daily driver is a Mercedes A-class and sometimes parking that can >be problematical. Typical petrol prices are AUD$90c (~50c) per litre so >a Hummer would be expensive to run too. One TV station here uses them instead of the usual SUV/van as remote news gathering patrol vehicles. They're a little tight in the lane around the downtown core. There also seem to be a few others around, but this is one area where a Suburban is seen as chic, and off road vehicles and trucks are popular. -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov spam traps ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Doc Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D4AFEC9.FBF3EEC8@cisco.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (Linux) Lines: 15 Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 16:12:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.69.202.179 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.austin.rr.com 1028391148 66.69.202.179 (Sat, 03 Aug 2002 11:12:28 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 11:12:28 CDT Organization: Road Runner - Texas Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!amsnews01.chello.com!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone.austin.rr.com!twister.austin.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113244 On Sat, 03 Aug 2002 07:10:33 -0500, D.J wrote: > > J Ahlstrom wrote: > ] Or as someone recently observed: > ] Europeans think 100 miles is a long distance. > ] Americans think 100 years is a long time. > > In a way. But some of the folks I grew up with in Texas would > discuss events that happened more than a hundred years ago as if > they were less than ten years ago. Only the Civil War. Doc (born, bred, and current Texan) ###### From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 3 Aug 2002 20:09:06 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: slytherin.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113252 In article , Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >On 2 Aug 2002 14:50:14 GMT, Dr. Richard E. Hawkins >> Yes, but keep in mind that in the Western US, the miles are bigger . . . > But (in some states, IIRC), so are the speed limits. Yep, to handle the bigger miles. Outside of California, I believe the entire southwest is 75. I was kind of shocked to see that in Utah, though, and pleased to see that Nebraska had gone from 70 to 75. >And there > aren't so many potholes, if the pictures are accurate. The roads are far better out there, though I suppose there's as many construction zones, which are actually engaged in work just as rarely. For all its faults, california is good at putting good surfaces on roads . . . but then again, it cost them 4x as much as Nevada, last I heard. hawk, contemplating mandatory jail time for posting construction zones with no work being done -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: D.J. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 15:58:20 -0500 Organization: TychoTown Tycho Crater Ice Cream Parlour Message-ID: Distribution: world Reply-To: blue7green@cheesenocrosswinds.net References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D4AFEC9.FBF3EEC8@cisco.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 16 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!newsfeed.news2me.com!sn-xit-05!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113266 Doc wrote: ]>JimP: ] > In a way. But some of the folks I grew up with in Texas would ] > discuss events that happened more than a hundred years ago as if ] > they were less than ten years ago. ] ] Only the Civil War. ] ] Doc (born, bred, and current Texan) Nope, the earlier battles for Texas Independence or the attacks/defense pertaining to the Comanche. A few people where I grew up mentioned the Civil War rather often, but most folks talked about other events. JimP. ###### From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 03 Aug 2002 13:51:33 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 1028418693 11065 128.171.80.135 (3 Aug 2002 23:51:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Aug 2002 23:51:33 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113303 >>>>> "Hawk" == Richard E Hawkins writes: Hawk> For all its faults, california is good at putting good surfaces on roads Hawk> . . . but then again, it cost them 4x as much as Nevada, last I heard. Gee, I hadn't heard that they'd figured out how to pave imperviously to earthquakes .... :-) Jim ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090006 (Oort Gnus v0.06) Emacs/21.2 (i386-msvc-nt4.0.1381) Cancel-Lock: sha1:5bPTrbit/QUnTyLJ79sr+YElm/M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 01:29:31 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.58.63.238 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1028424571 65.58.63.238 (Sat, 03 Aug 2002 18:29:31 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 18:29:31 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113288 hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) writes: > The roads are far better out there, though I suppose there's as many > construction zones, which are actually engaged in work just as rarely. > > For all its faults, california is good at putting good surfaces on roads > . . . but then again, it cost them 4x as much as Nevada, last I heard. and from the transportation thread ... comes the cal. road construction manual (some discussion earlier regarding frost heaves on mass pike): http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#42 transportation http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 transportation -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 4 Aug 2002 01:46:24 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1028425584 12058 134.117.136.30 (4 Aug 2002 01:46:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 2002 01:46:24 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!Quza.UK.peer!nntp.gblx.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113296 Jim Thomas (thomas@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu) writes: > > Gee, I hadn't heard that they'd figured out how to pave imperviously to > earthquakes .... :-) Get with the program, Jimbo. Earthquakes shake and heave (the P and S waves, IIRC). Put enough chewing gum into the pavement formulation, as long as there isn't enough ground deformation, (land slides, large crevasses, sudden geysers), no serious problems. And there's no short- age of chewing gum, right? Now, on the other hand, the guys in Hawaii who maintain the Interstate seem to be having an even harder time maintaining a good road, what with all the tourists overloading the roadbed as they watch the volcano burning it up, (as seen on Canadian TV news). Yet every cloud of steam has a silver lining: the shores must have many small shops selling poached seafood. (That's 'poached', as in boiled.) ###### Message-ID: <3D4D4A9B.E45A781A@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.237.69.162 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc02 1028468468 12.237.69.162 (Sun, 04 Aug 2002 13:41:08 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 13:41:08 GMT Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 13:41:08 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.204!attbi_feed4!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!sccrnsc02.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113318 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > Now, on the other hand, the guys in Hawaii who maintain the Interstate > seem to be having an even harder time maintaining a good road, > what with all the tourists overloading the roadbed as they watch the > volcano burning it up, (as seen on Canadian TV news). Yet every cloud > of steam has a silver lining: the shores must have many small shops > selling poached seafood. (That's 'poached', as in boiled.) > I am still trying to figure out how they can have an "Interstate" highway in Hawaii... Perhaps it is just a euphemistic term. Certainly the highway can *not* go to any other state...unless some of the Hawaiian islands want to break away and form a new state. The people standing around watching the volcano errupt... are probably a few more that the world does *not* really need anymore. (See "showing with a hair dryer" in a previous post...) -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3D4D3603.C1BBDFD0@polaris.umuc.edu> From: deanh61@my-deja.com Organization: -- X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D4D4A9B.E45A781A@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 43 Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 14:11:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.65.103.154 X-Complaints-To: abuse@adelphia.net X-Trace: news1.news.adelphia.net 1028470277 68.65.103.154 (Sun, 04 Aug 2002 10:11:17 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 10:11:17 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!router1.news.adelphia.net!news1.news.adelphia.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113287 Charles Richmond wrote: > > "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > > > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > > > Now, on the other hand, the guys in Hawaii who maintain the Interstate > > seem to be having an even harder time maintaining a good road, > > what with all the tourists overloading the roadbed as they watch the > > volcano burning it up, (as seen on Canadian TV news). Yet every cloud > > of steam has a silver lining: the shores must have many small shops > > selling poached seafood. (That's 'poached', as in boiled.) > > > I am still trying to figure out how they can have an > "Interstate" highway in Hawaii... Perhaps it is just > a euphemistic term. Certainly the highway can *not* > go to any other state...unless some of the Hawaiian > islands want to break away and form a new state. > > The people standing around watching the volcano errupt... > are probably a few more that the world does *not* really > need anymore. (See "showing with a hair dryer" in a > previous post...) > --Hawaii actually has 3 numbered "Interstates": H-1, H-2 and H-3. They not only don't leave the state, but since they are all on Oahu, they don't even leave the county. H-1 goes from Waialae to Makakilo on the Ewa (west/leeward) side; H-2 goes from Waiawa (near Pearl Harbor) to Waihiwa (central Oahu) and H-3 goes from roughly near the airport over/through the Koolau range to Kailua and Kanehoe on the windward side. Rather than being about actually going to another state, the interstate designation comes from the combination of federal funding and design standards for limited access/high speed travel. In Maryland, Interstate 97 between Baltimore and Annapolis is approximately 20 miles long, and is also entirely within a single county. Go figure... ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D4D4A9B.E45A781A@ev1.net> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 22 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090006 (Oort Gnus v0.06) Emacs/21.2 (i386-msvc-nt4.0.1381) Cancel-Lock: sha1:K9nJMj3mlawlAajaY/hORVcx8wk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 14:24:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.245.15.138 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1028471062 209.245.15.138 (Sun, 04 Aug 2002 07:24:22 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 07:24:22 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113289 Charles Richmond writes: > I am still trying to figure out how they can have an > "Interstate" highway in Hawaii... Perhaps it is just > a euphemistic term. Certainly the highway can *not* > go to any other state...unless some of the Hawaiian > islands want to break away and form a new state. H1, H2, & H3 on oahu; there are lots of designated "loops" around major cities that get interstate funds that aren't directly interstate ... although they tend to connect to things that are interstate. quicky use of search engine why does hawaii have interstate highways? http://geography.miningco.com/library/faq/blqzhawaiiinterstates.htm misc. other http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa052499.htm -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 4 Aug 2002 14:47:08 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D4D4A9B.E45A781A@ev1.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1028472428 15366 134.117.136.30 (4 Aug 2002 14:47:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 2002 14:47:08 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!dca6-feed2.news.algx.net!allegiance!nntp.abs.net!news-peer-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113295 Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) writes: > I am still trying to figure out how they can have an > "Interstate" highway in Hawaii... Perhaps it is just > a euphemistic term. 1) As a Canadian, I have only a dim grasp of USA politics, but the word "funding" pops up whenever highways are mentioned. 2) As a devout follower of (w)rec.humo(u)r, there was the classic joke of the lamp rubbed, producing genie, one request was to make a 2 lane Interstate to California from Hawaii; the genie said no can do. The second request was to make my former housemate a beautiful sexy loving and honest woman, and the genie said why not go for the full four lanes with a divider down the middle. ###### Message-ID: <3D4D663D.1165796D@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Canine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D4D4A9B.E45A781A@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.237.69.162 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc02 1028475542 12.237.69.162 (Sun, 04 Aug 2002 15:39:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 15:39:02 GMT Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 15:39:02 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!sccrnsc02.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113312 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > 2) As a devout follower of (w)rec.humo(u)r, there was the classic joke > of the lamp rubbed, producing genie, one request was to make a 2 lane > Interstate to California from Hawaii; the genie said no can do. > The second request was to make my former housemate a beautiful sexy > loving and honest woman, and the genie said why not go for the full > four lanes with a divider down the middle. > There is a commercial on TV now about some motel chain. A lady is granting the wishes of a certain couple...giving them every comfort they desire in the motel. So the man says: "Make me irresistable to women." And the lady turns the man into a cute little dog... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3D4DC65C.AC1A5E74@polaris.umuc.edu> From: deanh61@my-deja.com Organization: -- X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D4D4A9B.E45A781A@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 33 Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 00:27:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.65.103.154 X-Complaints-To: abuse@adelphia.net X-Trace: news1.news.adelphia.net 1028507227 68.65.103.154 (Sun, 04 Aug 2002 20:27:07 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 20:27:07 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!router1.news.adelphia.net!news1.news.adelphia.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113393 Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: > > Charles Richmond writes: > > I am still trying to figure out how they can have an > > "Interstate" highway in Hawaii... Perhaps it is just > > a euphemistic term. Certainly the highway can *not* > > go to any other state...unless some of the Hawaiian > > islands want to break away and form a new state. > > H1, H2, & H3 on oahu; there are lots of designated "loops" around > major cities that get interstate funds that aren't directly interstate > ... although they tend to connect to things that are interstate. > > quicky use of search engine > > why does hawaii have interstate highways? > http://geography.miningco.com/library/faq/blqzhawaiiinterstates.htm > > misc. other > http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa052499.htm > > -- > Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ uh huh...they do indeed connect to 'regular' interstates. The 1-, 2-, 3-, 4-, 6-, 7-, and 8- series names (plus the one or two digits shared withnominal interstate route #)) have some relation (loop, bypass, spur typically) to their 'parents'. And they all started off as a way to expedite the movement of miltary equipment between population centers (and major miltary installations) under Eisenhower.... ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 22:14:02 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <1028585642snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D4DC65C.AC1A5E74@polaris.umuc.edu> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1028589569 mail2news:28493 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113555 In article <3D4DC65C.AC1A5E74@polaris.umuc.edu> deanh61@my-deja.com writes: > typically) to their 'parents'. And they all started off as a way to > expedite the movement of miltary equipment between population centers > (and major miltary installations) under Eisenhower.... Not just road transport, IIRC. Was it not the case that the Interstates built under Eisenhower were all required to be built with a stretch of wide straight blacktop every 50 miles to provide the capability of emergency landing strips for aircraft? -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 05 Aug 2002 13:05:31 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 1028588731 4161 128.171.80.135 (5 Aug 2002 23:05:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Aug 2002 23:05:31 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!newsfeeder.ewetel.de!news.vew-telnet.net!news.tmr.net!news.ruhr-uni-bochum.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113543 >>>>> "Heinz" == Heinz W Wiggeshoff writes: Heinz> Jim Thomas (thomas@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu) writes: >> >> Gee, I hadn't heard that they'd figured out how to pave imperviously to >> earthquakes .... :-) Heinz> Get with the program, Jimbo. Earthquakes shake and heave (the P Heinz> and S waves, IIRC). Put enough chewing gum into the pavement Heinz> formulation, as long as there isn't enough ground deformation, Heinz> (land slides, large crevasses, sudden geysers), no serious Heinz> problems. And there's no short- age of chewing gum, right? As you say "as long as there isn't enough ground deformation" - or are you of the "that water's safe to drink as long as you don't drink it" school of being kind of pregnant ?-) Heinz> Now, on the other hand, the guys in Hawaii who maintain the Heinz> Interstate seem to be having an even harder time Heinz> maintaining a good road, what with all the tourists overloading Heinz> the roadbed as they watch the volcano burning it up, (as seen on Heinz> Canadian TV news). As other people have said, they're H-[123] not I-* . Plus they're on O`ahu not on Hawai`i. Of course maybe the Canadian TV news camerapeople never made it that far and just took a picture of a car burning on the H-1 :-) Heinz> Yet every cloud of steam has a silver lining: Heinz> the shores must have many small shops selling poached seafood. Heinz> (That's 'poached', as in boiled.) Not. There may well be shops selling poached seafood, but not volcano boiled :-) Jim ###### From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 05 Aug 2002 13:08:32 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D4D4A9B.E45A781A@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 1028588912 4161 128.171.80.135 (5 Aug 2002 23:08:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Aug 2002 23:08:32 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!newsfeeder.ewetel.de!news.vew-telnet.net!news.tmr.net!news.ruhr-uni-bochum.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lmu.de!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113542 >>>>> "Charles" == Charles Richmond writes: Charles> The people standing around watching the volcano errupt... Charles> are probably a few more that the world does *not* really Charles> need anymore. (See "showing with a hair dryer" in a Charles> previous post...) I don't suppose you use an oven to cook anything? Watching the "volcano" at this stage here is about as dangerous. And it's much less dangerous than using a gas barbeque grill. Jim ###### From: wilson@netwhatever.com (Wilson R. Afonso) Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Yanoff Conduit v1.0pre8 Lines: 31 Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 00:28:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 200.180.174.194 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: sea-read.news.verio.net 1028593735 200.180.174.194 (Tue, 06 Aug 2002 00:28:55 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 00:28:55 GMT Organization: Verio Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.xnet.com!dfw-peer!news.verio.net!sea-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113456 MSCHAEF.COM wrote: [...] > Again, it's not that I'm claiming a TDI is better than a hybrid, I just > question the return on investment of adding the complexity of a special > battery, motor, mechanical coupling, motor controller, modified gasoline > engine. and all the other associated cruft that you get with a Hybrid. > Are Diesels really that difficult to make cleaner, or is there some other > reason that Hybrids are getting the attention? Maybe the semi-electrics > are sexier than Diesel or they get more government dollars. In a somewhat related note... did any other country (other than Brazil) tried "alternative" fuels in standard consumer vehicles ? Things like natural gas or ethanol ? Most cabs here were modified to run on natural gas, and they get some very high mileage at a very low cost. Ethanol, on the other hand, gives you a lower mileage, but the fuel is cheaper (than petrol) and cleaner, and the car may be cheaper as well, due to tax incentives. -Wilson ###### From: gorilla@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 6 Aug 2002 01:22:20 GMT Organization: Ye 'Ol Disorganized NNTPCache groupie Lines: 14 Message-ID: <1028596940.544775@elaine.furryape.com> References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D4DC65C.AC1A5E74@polaris.umuc.edu> <1028585642snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-351.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: gorilla@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) Cache-Post-Path: elaine.furryape.com!unknown@elaine.furryape.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!opentransit.net!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113515 In article <1028585642snz@dsl.co.uk>, Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: >In article <3D4DC65C.AC1A5E74@polaris.umuc.edu> deanh61@my-deja.com writes: > >> typically) to their 'parents'. And they all started off as a way to >> expedite the movement of miltary equipment between population centers >> (and major miltary installations) under Eisenhower.... > >Not just road transport, IIRC. Was it not the case that the Interstates >built under Eisenhower were all required to be built with a stretch of That's correct. It was not the case. http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/airstrip.htm ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 6 Aug 2002 01:29:55 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1028597395 11299 134.117.136.30 (6 Aug 2002 01:29:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Aug 2002 01:29:55 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113523 Jim Thomas (thomas@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu) writes: > > Heinz> Yet every cloud of steam has a silver lining: > Heinz> the shores must have many small shops selling poached seafood. > Heinz> (That's 'poached', as in boiled.) > > Not. There may well be shops selling poached seafood, but not volcano > boiled :-) Given a long enough handle, (and yes, I did get up close to liquid nickel in INCO's smelter in the late 60's), it wouldn't be unreasonble to set up a BBQ stand near the lava flow, (assuming the vapours aren't too disgusting). A basket of clams or oysters, they'll pop in four minutes tops. Seared shark steak - 90 seconds per side. And for the most tender tuna this side of sashimi, first you toss in a virgin, --- oh, never mind. ###### From: "John Homes" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 15:33:53 +1200 Organization: EDS (New Zealand) Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: dhcp-134-251-165-113.dhcp.nz.eds.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news.eds.co.nz!news.nz.eds.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113480 "Wilson R. Afonso" wrote in message news:B9737B0Byf@netwhatever.com... > > In a somewhat related note... did any other country (other than > Brazil) > tried "alternative" fuels in standard consumer vehicles ? Things > like > natural gas or ethanol ? > New Zealand. Both Compressed Natural Gas and Liquid Petroleum Gas. The vehicle conversions were usually done as a retrofit, and were fairly expensive, but the fuel was (maybe still is; I haven't looked lately) a *lot* cheaper, so it was mainly high-mileage vehicles (many taxis and delivery vans, but also private-use vehicles that got heavily used). John Homes. ###### From: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 6 Aug 2002 15:40:51 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: slytherin.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113465 In article , Wilson R. Afonso wrote: >`Ethanol, on the other >hand, gives >you a lower mileage, but the fuel is cheaper (than petrol) and >cleaner, >and the car may be cheaper as well, due to tax incentives. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You misspelled, "welfare payments courtesy of ADM's wholly owened senators." You *really* need to fix your line length. hawk -- Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: Jim Stewart Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 09:41:14 -0700 Organization: http://www.jkmicro.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: X-Orig-Message-ID: <3D4FFC2A.2B7E740F@jkmicro.com> References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: jstewart@jkmicro.com Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library2.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Tue Aug 6 11:37:18 2002 NNTP-Posting-Host: !_jLW1k-X*lo3H\EFO).@srFK (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113447 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > > Jim Thomas (thomas@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu) writes: > > > > Heinz> Yet every cloud of steam has a silver lining: > > Heinz> the shores must have many small shops selling poached seafood. > > Heinz> (That's 'poached', as in boiled.) > > > > Not. There may well be shops selling poached seafood, but not volcano > > boiled :-) > > Given a long enough handle, (and yes, I did get up close to liquid > nickel in INCO's smelter in the late 60's), it wouldn't be unreasonble > to set up a BBQ stand near the lava flow, (assuming the vapours aren't > too disgusting). A basket of clams or oysters, they'll pop in four > minutes tops. Seared shark steak - 90 seconds per side. And for the > most tender tuna this side of sashimi, first you toss in a virgin, > --- oh, never mind. You can climb the side of Mt. Fuji and purchase hard boild eggs that were cooked in the steam vents. The eggs were all black from the sulfur fumes mixed with the steam. ###### From: J. Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 12:41:56 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D4D4A9B.E45A781A@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-300.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113496 In article , thomas@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu says... > >>>>> "Charles" == Charles Richmond writes: > > Charles> The people standing around watching the volcano errupt... > Charles> are probably a few more that the world does *not* really > Charles> need anymore. (See "showing with a hair dryer" in a > Charles> previous post...) > > I don't suppose you use an oven to cook anything? Watching the "volcano" > at this stage here is about as dangerous. And it's much less dangerous > than using a gas barbeque grill. This assumes that the volcano continues to behave itself. Remember Thera and Krakatoa? Or even Pompeii? -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### From: J. Clarke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 12:41:58 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-301.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113497 In article , john.homes@eds.com says... > > "Wilson R. Afonso" wrote in message > news:B9737B0Byf@netwhatever.com... > > > > In a somewhat related note... did any other country (other than > > Brazil) > > tried "alternative" fuels in standard consumer vehicles ? Things > > like > > natural gas or ethanol ? > > > New Zealand. Both Compressed Natural Gas and Liquid Petroleum Gas. > > The vehicle conversions were usually done as a retrofit, and were fairly > expensive, but the fuel was (maybe still is; I haven't looked lately) a > *lot* cheaper, so it was mainly high-mileage vehicles (many taxis and > delivery vans, but also private-use vehicles that got heavily used). In the US most gas utilities will be happy to retrofit your car to run on natural gas--they do this for their own vehicles. Not cheap though and you end up without much trunk space. -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net) ###### From: stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: Organization: Metropolis Grafix Reply-To: stanb@dial.pipex.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.2 UNIX) Date: 06 Aug 2002 17:32:37 GMT Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62-190-202-131.pdu.pipex.net X-Trace: 1028655157 news.dial.pipex.com 236 62.190.202.131 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!bnewspeer01.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewsifeed01.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewsifeed00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113463 On Tue, 6 Aug 2002 15:33:53 +1200, John Homes wrote: > >"Wilson R. Afonso" wrote in message >news:B9737B0Byf@netwhatever.com... >> >> In a somewhat related note... did any other country (other than >> Brazil) >> tried "alternative" fuels in standard consumer vehicles ? Things >> like >> natural gas or ethanol ? >> >New Zealand. Both Compressed Natural Gas and Liquid Petroleum Gas. > >The vehicle conversions were usually done as a retrofit, and were fairly >expensive, but the fuel was (maybe still is; I haven't looked lately) a >*lot* cheaper, so it was mainly high-mileage vehicles (many taxis and >delivery vans, but also private-use vehicles that got heavily used). And in the UK. Most towns now have places to fill up. You can buy new dual-fuel vehicles from some of the major car dealers. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 09 Aug 02 09:49:44 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 16 Message-ID: <518.986T2217T5895054@kltpzyxm.invalid> References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-253.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!feed.news.nacamar.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113987 In article jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) writes: >- most new drives are CAV, not CLV. >That means the speed rating is bogus, >usually advertised as "32x max" since the disk spins at a constant RPM. Ah. I always wondered what that "max" weasel-word meant. I figured it must have been something like this. Thanks for the into. -- cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) I'm really at moc.subyks if you read it the right way. Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 20:01:31 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <1028664091snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> <3D4DC65C.AC1A5E74@polaris.umuc.edu> <1028585642snz@dsl.co.uk> <1028596940.544775@elaine.furryape.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1028702942 mail2news:16026 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:114168 In article <1028596940.544775@elaine.furryape.com> gorilla@elaine.furryape.com "Alan Barclay" writes: > In article <1028585642snz@dsl.co.uk>, > Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > >Not just road transport, IIRC. Was it not the case that the Interstates > >built under Eisenhower were all required to be built with a stretch of > > That's correct. It was not the case. > > http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/airstrip.htm Thanks for that: it always DID have the aura of a UL. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: Joshua Hesse <00093182@bigred.unl.edu> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 6 Aug 2002 20:19:07 GMT Organization: People Eating Tasty Animals, UNL chapter Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <1028228081snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: bigred.unl.edu X-HTML:
X-URL: http://straylight.unl.edu/concussion/ User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (OSF1/V5.0 (alpha)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!aanews.merit.edu!gumby.it.wmich.edu!newsreader.wustl.edu!unlnews.unl.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113888 Jim Stewart wrote: :You can climb the side of Mt. Fuji and purchase hard boild eggs that :were cooked in the steam vents. The eggs were all black from the sulfur :fumes mixed with the steam. That's something I'll have to do sometime. However, I don't think I'll do it twice. -Josh -- "I have also mastered pomposity, even if I do say so myself." -Kryten "You scream at them at the top of your lungs and then hit them over the head with an immense wooden mallet? You're weird, sir." -Dave Brown on girls. ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 9 Aug 2002 04:26:27 -0400 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: panix1.panix.com X-Trace: reader2.panix.com 1028881587 7220 166.84.1.1 (9 Aug 2002 08:26:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 08:26:27 +0000 (UTC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!panix!panix1.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113908 >I heard from a colleague at work that Hard Drive casings are so thick >because years ago, someone was killed when a hard drive failed. >Apparently, the spinning platters of the hard drive shattered into many >pieces and flew out of the hard drive's then thin casing like pieces of >shrapnel. Well, yes and no. I'm amazed at how thin modern drive casings have gotten, since thermal stability is a real concern. The drive spindle and head assembly can't be allowed to flex, thus the thick case. But the head controller now seem to compensate a lot for thermal expansion of the disk and perhaps other thermal effects. Old drives (8 inch, 14 inch or larger) tended to have a window on top or sides to look in. A head crash COULD cause shrapnel, mostly the head ripping off the arm. I have taken apart MANY MANY hard drives from 14 inch to 3 inch. I've seen platters scratched and scored like the rings of saturn, but never shattered. I even played frizbee with 14" platters and was disappointed at how hard they are to even dent. -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 9 Aug 2002 04:29:26 -0400 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix1.panix.com X-Trace: reader2.panix.com 1028881767 7266 166.84.1.1 (9 Aug 2002 08:29:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 08:29:27 +0000 (UTC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!panix!panix1.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113901 >A couple of years ago, I read on the web that Microsoft issued a >CD-ROM that was deffective and did not support the latest 52x CD-ROM >drives. Hopefully, shrapnel of plastic is less lethal than shrapnel >of iron... I'm unsure if that was the CD, but I once pulled apart a CD drive because the CD-rom platter shattered inside it. I got it back together just fine too. What crappy materials for the drive: mostly plastic. Feh. (I still have my Toshiba 3401B CD drives. 2x caddy loading but built like a TANK with cast metal frame!) -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 9 Aug 2002 04:45:42 -0400 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix1.panix.com X-Trace: reader2.panix.com 1028882742 7534 166.84.1.1 (9 Aug 2002 08:45:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 08:45:42 +0000 (UTC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!panix!panix1.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113897 >Talking of which I ******* hate anything > 16x CD-ROM drive because >they take SO DAMN LONG to spin up and they constantly change speeds >in operation because they can rarely read the data at that speed >any way. What a total and utter waste of time & money, STOP BEING >morons please customers, insist on CD-ROMs which work properly and >within the spec of the media. I whole heartedly agree. - I wish the drives had a 2x or 4x CLV mode to allow fast start/stop and initial read instead of forcing everyone to wait for the spinup to full speed. - most new drives are CAV, not CLV. That means the speed rating is bogus, usually advertised as "32x max" since the disk spins at a constant RPM. Since reading CDs starts at the hub, that results in the slowest read speed 'till you access data at the outermost edge! That means that CDs not burned to the outermost edge never achieve the full read speed! Some drive are clever. I think my Yamaha CD-burner has partial-CLV where it uses different speeds but in zones instead of continuously. Didn't the Apple Lisa and Mac do that for the floppy drives? -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Date: 9 Aug 2002 04:54:47 -0400 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <1334.969T757T8983786@kltpzyxm.invalid> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix1.panix.com X-Trace: reader2.panix.com 1028883288 7620 166.84.1.1 (9 Aug 2002 08:54:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 08:54:48 +0000 (UTC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!panix!panix1.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:113799 >One day I found a large strobe sitting in the shop I was working >in at the time. I think the CEs were using it for speed checks >or something. It was fun to point it at a spinning disk pack >and freeze the label so I could read it. I wish I had thought of that! I enjoyed the clear plastic top of the Calcomp clothes-washer sized disk drive. 11: 14" platters to a pack, spun at 3,600 I believe. It was gratifying seeing the heads move to my command! I liked seeing the disks spin up and down too, something that's totally invisible now :-( I found it useful to have something visual for the computer powering off. semi-related: old file systems used contiguous files, so watching the heads ment you could tell what file was being read (or at least what area was being accessed). On the IBM system 3, I manually arranged the files to minimize head motion with the master file centermost, the cumulative file hubmost. The Memorex diskpack drives had front panels with the cylinder position, so at any moment I could tell what file was being read, how far, etc. A maintenance guy used to come in with his own machine to clean and check the diskpacks. Was there really "disk wax" or was that just a joke? I thought the disk platter was supposed to be ABSOLUTELY clean with no allowance for wax or anything on the surface. -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 21:08:47 -0500 From: charles User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.1b) Gecko/20020721 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? References: <87heiqfxae.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> <518.986T2217T5895054@kltpzyxm.invalid> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Message-ID: <3d5475a3$0$37690$4bb17d6e@news.dwave.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 9b673f30.news.dwave.net X-Trace: 1028945316 gemini.dwave.net 37690 206.176.223.203 X-Complaints-To: abuse@dwave.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!jfk3-feed1.news.algx.net!allegiance!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!gemini.dwave.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:114029 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > In article jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) > writes: > > >>- most new drives are CAV, not CLV. >>That means the speed rating is bogus, >>usually advertised as "32x max" since the disk spins at a constant RPM. > > > Ah. I always wondered what that "max" weasel-word meant. > I figured it must have been something like this. > Thanks for the into. > > -- > cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs) > I'm really at moc.subyks if you read it the right way. > Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855. > sounds better than "lest than 32X Charles ###### From: wilson@netwhatever.com (Wilson R. Afonso) Subject: Re: Killer Hard Drives - Shrapnel? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Yanoff Conduit v1.0pre8 Lines: 21 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:24:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 200.180.172.86 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: sea-read.news.verio.net 1029457442 200.180.172.86 (Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:24:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:24:02 GMT Organization: Verio Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!sea-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:114604 Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote: > In article , > Wilson R. Afonso wrote: > > > >`Ethanol, on the other > >hand, gives > >you a lower mileage, but the fuel is cheaper (than petrol) and > >cleaner, > >and the car may be cheaper as well, due to tax incentives. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > You misspelled, "welfare payments courtesy of ADM's wholly owened > senators." > > You *really* need to fix your line length. Indeed. Posting from a PDA, let's see if now I get it right... -Wilson