Message-ID: <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca> From: dan braun Reply-To: dbraun@nospam.cogeco.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: NAPLPS --> Re: First images in email? References: <3cac4251$1_2@news.iglou.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 19:13:22 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.141.17.238 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cogeco.ca X-Trace: read1.cgocable.net 1017965634 24.141.17.238 (Thu, 04 Apr 2002 19:13:54 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 19:13:54 EST Organization: Cogeco Cable Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!feed.newsfeeds.com!feed.cgocable.net!read1.cgocable.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:105298 the teletext standard in north america was call NAPLPS - North American Presentation Layer Protocol Syntax. But i don't think it was used in email, mostly, bbs systems and vertical interval television broadcast data transfers. dan > "Douglas H. Quebbeman" writes: > > I believe there was a standard for images in Teletext? -- Dan Braun - Broadcast Engineering / CityTV Burlington, Ontario, Canada http://www.pegasoft.ca mailto:dbraun@nospam.cogeco.ca mailto:dan@nospam.pegasoft.ca ###### From: Wolfgang Schwanke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NAPLPS --> Re: First images in email? Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:32:23 +0200 Organization: disorganised Lines: 62 Message-ID: References: <3cac4251$1_2@news.iglou.com> <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca> Reply-To: wolfi@snafu.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.eusc.inter.net 1018045942 10305 217.80.22.227 (5 Apr 2002 22:32:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@eusc.inter.net User-Agent: Xnews/4.12.02 X-No-Archive: yes Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!unlisys!news.snafu.de!news.eusc.inter.net!koepenick.wolfi!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:105431 graymaus@walrus.com wrote in news:a8l3a4$t8m8s$1@ID-132592.news.dfncis.de: > In article <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca>, dan braun wrote: >> the teletext standard in north America was call NAPLPS - North American >> Presentation Layer Protocol Syntax. >> >> But i don't think it was used in email, mostly, bbs systems and vertical >> interval television broadcast data transfers. > In America it was principally used by deaf people . > Good idea , well implemented by the French government (They gave away > the units) , but became outdated . Both of you are confusing teletext and online services. Teletext: Text service on top of a television signal. Monodirectional. Typical usages: News, TV programme schedules, film subtitling for the deaf Online services: modem based dialup services to a central database run by national telecom services. Bidirectional. Typical usages: phone directory, online banking, email(ish) Minitel is the French implementation, BTX is e.g. the German one. Both are essentially 1970s technology which became popular during the 1980s. The centralised online services have meanwhile made obsolete by the internet, teletext is still popular and will likely remain that way. > (Just musing , but it mirrors the differing philosophies , Internet is > not highly organized , but Minitel is ) , like the philosophy's of the > French Government , highly structured , authoterian (sp)? , vs USA , > more chaotic .` Overinterpretation. Most national telecoms in Europe had services similar to minitel. In those days internet was no mass medium but an academic network. Nobody in any country thought it would become one. Centrally controlled databases run like a giant BBS were the only approach tried anywhere at that time. The reason why the French approach is the most famous among those is that it was much more successful than anywhere else. The key to its success is that the France Telecom gave the terminals away, as you stated correctly. But originally they had no large online service in mind, their rationale was much simpler: Minitel was to replace phone books, nothing else. So they offered the terminals for free for any phone subscriber - as replacement for paper phone books which the subscriber would then no longer receive. Since printing phone books is rather expensive, the terminals paíd for themselves. Other countries were not that smart. E.g. the German minitel equivalent "BTX" was not offered for free. Instead any subscriber had to buy several pieces of hardware (a modem, a decoder and a suitable TV set - the German Telecom recommended TVs as displays, even though their service was not TV related otherwhise), plus subscribe to the service for a fee (montly flat plus per-page). In the early days they had a free guest login but they removed that later on. Of course with all these costs and hurdles, the service never was popular. Otherwhise it was quite the same as minitel. Regards -- "Yamaha Mitsubishi Toyota Suzuki Sony Minolta Kawasaki Sanyo Casio Toshiba" (Annette Humpe) ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NAPLPS --> Re: First images in email? Date: 06 Apr 2002 22:09:43 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 150 Message-ID: <6uk7rklhbs.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <3cac4251$1_2@news.iglou.com> <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1018123783 1458 10.0.3.2 (6 Apr 2002 20:09:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Apr 2002 20:09:43 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:105465 Wolfgang Schwanke writes: > graymaus@walrus.com wrote in news:a8l3a4$t8m8s$1@ID-132592.news.dfncis.de: > > > In article <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca>, dan braun wrote: > >> > >> But i don't think it was used in email, mostly, bbs systems and vertical > >> interval television broadcast data transfers. > > > In America it was principally used by deaf people . The problem in America. In Europe it would be difficult to find anyone who does not use it (unless children too young to switch on an TV). I have not seen an TV set without built-in Teletext decoder since over 15 years now. Note that Teletext drove the change from "2 dial (VHF and UHF)" stype station selectors to digitally controlled TVs. When I 1989 whent to the U.S. and still saw "2 dial" style TVs I had an "gosh how outdated" feeling. > > Good idea , well implemented by the French government (They gave away > > the units) , but became outdated . That is not Teletext, rather is Minitel (name in France), Prestel (Britain), BTX (Germany), Videotex (Switzerland). > Both of you are confusing teletext and online services. Perhaps because neither got known outside Europe? > Teletext: Text service on top of a television signal. Monodirectional. > Typical usages: News, TV programme schedules, film subtitling for the deaf Also airport arrivals, weather/wind forcast/status, traffic data. Basically an updated-in-minutes electronic news"paper" broadcast. As most Americans have never seen it, a short description: - 40x25 characters (optimised for TV displays) - character set roughly ASCII plus simple character cell graphics - attributes 8 primary colours for fore- and background and blinking - also has an background = TV picture show-through mode (used for subtitling) User interface is: select TV station (each has it sown Teletext page set, about 90% of stations have one). Press TXT button on remote. Possibly select show-through mode. Type on normal 0-9 pad the desired page number (100-999). 100 is master index 110 and [2-9]00 are second level indexes. Pages are (re-)transmitted cyclically. Page display is auto-refreshed when they are re-recieved, that gives continuously updating subtitles. Indexes at retransmitted at higher repeat rate, fairly fast. If you select no page you get 100. Good TV sets auto-cache the following 3 pages, so going one page further (using station+1 button on remote) is immediately there (cache hole is then filled as fast as possible). Also good sets start grabbing [1-4]00 as soon as station is changed, so these appear fast. Interaction is only page selection from the broadcast. Never back to the page source (if you exempt "play per touch-tone phone" style games). > Online services: modem based dialup services to a central database run by > national telecom services. And with data passed through from/to various institutions present on the system. When I went to DEC for an RDB (releational DB on VMS) course, there were 2 guys in it from an large bank, who were leaning RDB to implement their banks Videotex system. > Typical usages: phone directory, online banking, email(ish) > Minitel is the French implementation, BTX is e.g. the German one. Yup. > internet, teletext is still popular and will likely remain that way. Yes. Built-in in every TV set. Known to and used by everyone. Easy as no other computer to use. No configuration. No on-line connection. No usage costs at all. > > (Just musing , but it mirrors the differing philosophies , Internet is > > not highly organized , but Minitel is ) , like the philosophy's of the > > French Government , highly structured , authoterian (sp)? , vs USA , > > more chaotic .` > > Overinterpretation. Most national telecoms in Europe had services similar > to minitel. Yup. > The reason why the French approach is the most famous among those is that > it was much more successful than anywhere else. Read: flopped totally everywhere else. > But originally they had no large online service in mind, their rationale > was much simpler: Minitel was to replace phone books, nothing else. Yes. > Other countries were not that smart. E.g. the German minitel equivalent > "BTX" was not offered for free. Instead any subscriber had to buy several > pieces of hardware (a modem, a decoder and a suitable TV set Any normal TV set. Output was like any average home computer or set-top box: RF modulator or RCA or SCART plug. > - the German > Telecom recommended TVs as displays, even though their service was not TV > related otherwhise), The CEPT terminal standard that was the base for Minitel/BTX/... was designed for TVs, as everyone already has one. The trick of the French was to notice that 9" B&W displays were actually nearly as cheap as RF modulator+cabeling and standalone operation faster and more flexible than starting up the TV. > plus subscribe to the service for a fee (montly flat > plus per-page). In the early days they had a free guest login but they > removed that later on. Of course with all these costs and hurdles, the > service never was popular. Dito the introduction of X.25 where it took them over 10 years to come up with the idea of auto-charging use to ones normal phone bill. Just as the Internet took off and destroyed any need for X.25. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 24.67.16.79 From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NAPLPS --> Re: First images in email? Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: <9sruausplioorqdj15cabiniac6p4er83s@4ax.com> References: <3cac4251$1_2@news.iglou.com> <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca> <6uk7rklhbs.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 102 Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 22:08:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news3.calgary.shaw.ca 1018130891 24.71.223.147 (Sat, 06 Apr 2002 15:08:11 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 15:08:11 MST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!feed.newsfeeds.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!209.10.34.151!newsfeed.sjc.globix.net!hub1.meganetnews.com!hub1.nntpserver.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news3.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:105473 On 06 Apr 2002 22:09:43 +0200, Neil Franklin wrote: >Wolfgang Schwanke writes: > >> graymaus@walrus.com wrote in news:a8l3a4$t8m8s$1@ID-132592.news.dfncis.de: >> >> > In article <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca>, dan braun wrote: >> Online services: modem based dialup services to a central database run by >> national telecom services. > >And with data passed through from/to various institutions present on >the system. > >When I went to DEC for an RDB (releational DB on VMS) course, there >were 2 guys in it from an large bank, who were leaning RDB to >implement their banks Videotex system. > >> Typical usages: phone directory, online banking, email(ish) >> Minitel is the French implementation, BTX is e.g. the German one. > >Yup. > >> internet, teletext is still popular and will likely remain that way. > >Yes. Built-in in every TV set. Known to and used by everyone. Easy as >no other computer to use. No configuration. No on-line connection. No >usage costs at all. > > >> > (Just musing , but it mirrors the differing philosophies , Internet is >> > not highly organized , but Minitel is ) , like the philosophy's of the >> > French Government , highly structured , authoterian (sp)? , vs USA , >> > more chaotic .` >> >> Overinterpretation. Most national telecoms in Europe had services similar >> to minitel. > >Yup. > > >> The reason why the French approach is the most famous among those is that >> it was much more successful than anywhere else. > >Read: flopped totally everywhere else. > > >> But originally they had no large online service in mind, their rationale >> was much simpler: Minitel was to replace phone books, nothing else. > >Yes. > > >> Other countries were not that smart. E.g. the German minitel equivalent >> "BTX" was not offered for free. Instead any subscriber had to buy several >> pieces of hardware (a modem, a decoder and a suitable TV set > >Any normal TV set. Output was like any average home computer or >set-top box: RF modulator or RCA or SCART plug. > > >> - the German >> Telecom recommended TVs as displays, even though their service was not TV >> related otherwhise), > >The CEPT terminal standard that was the base for Minitel/BTX/... was >designed for TVs, as everyone already has one. > >The trick of the French was to notice that 9" B&W displays were actually >nearly as cheap as RF modulator+cabeling and standalone operation faster >and more flexible than starting up the TV. > > >> plus subscribe to the service for a fee (montly flat >> plus per-page). In the early days they had a free guest login but they >> removed that later on. Of course with all these costs and hurdles, the >> service never was popular. > >Dito the introduction of X.25 where it took them over 10 years to come >up with the idea of auto-charging use to ones normal phone bill. Just >as the Internet took off and destroyed any need for X.25. Whereas in Canada the DataPac X.25 service was priced per kilopacket and for text screens over long distance was cheaper than dial-up after a couple of years. Also public dial-up PADs allowed access from home PCs and laptops away from home, and no additional charge to get to other X.25 accessible systems in other countries. Used to access Compu$erve from X.25 as it was cheaper and faster than their own network until fibre, fast modems and the Internet provided competition. -- Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov spam traps ###### From: extempore Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NAPLPS --> Re: First images in email? Organization: Alphabetical Message-ID: References: <3cac4251$1_2@news.iglou.com> <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 50 Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 10:38:23 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.10.136.17 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 1018201134 64.10.136.17 (Sun, 07 Apr 2002 13:38:54 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 13:38:54 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:105516 Wolfgang Schwanke, with nothing better to do on Sat, 6 Apr 2002 00:32:23 +0200, spewed forth in message and told us all: >Other countries were not that smart. E.g. the German minitel equivalent >"BTX" was not offered for free. Instead any subscriber had to buy several >pieces of hardware (a modem, a decoder and a suitable TV set - the German >Telecom recommended TVs as displays, even though their service was not TV >related otherwhise), plus subscribe to the service for a fee (montly flat >plus per-page). In the early days they had a free guest login but they >removed that later on. Of course with all these costs and hurdles, the >service never was popular. Otherwhise it was quite the same as minitel. This sounds similar to a system that was set up on a trial basis in Canada around in 1981 or 82. (There was a display at the Food Show at Exhibition Place in Toronto.) This was when the Cdn. government was really pushing their TELIDON initiative (which, BTW, had some really cool graphics and fractal-like generation for its time - our local cable company (Rogers) used to use those graphics generously on their barker channels) and there was a program, in conjunction with Bell Canada, where if you signed up for the trial, they would give you a box (which looked similar to a Coleco Adam, IIRC) and an acoustic modem (probably 300bps). The monitor was your home TV set. This was mostly the "home version" of Government of Ontario tourist kiosks which were popping up like mad all around public places in T.O. at the time -- the zoo had them, the Science Centre (natch), the central reference library, etc. (Hee.. I remember playing with these things....if you typed in page 1000000 it would throw it into some kind of test mode.) Anyway, from what I remember, if you participated in the test of this equipment, you got use of the equipment for free but had to pay a monthly access charge...which is why my father put the kybosh on the idea at an early stage, much to my chagrin. I never heard of the project again, and those TELIDON kiosks disappeared around 12-13 years ago. I assume funding was killed, it never seemed to take on a commercial presence. I would LOVE pointers to more history and information on this project, post or mail me please! Incidently Bell Canada later tried something similar to the above on their own a few years later ( the failed Alex project) which cost way too much to access. I know several people, however, who hacked up their Alexs to make nifty little terminals. extempore ###### From: Wolfgang Schwanke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NAPLPS --> Re: First images in email? Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 21:38:14 +0200 Organization: disorganised Lines: 53 Message-ID: References: <3cac4251$1_2@news.iglou.com> <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca> <6uk7rklhbs.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Reply-To: wolfi@snafu.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.eusc.inter.net 1018208303 24523 217.80.22.229 (7 Apr 2002 19:38:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@eusc.inter.net User-Agent: Xnews/4.12.02 X-No-Archive: yes Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!unlisys!news.snafu.de!news.eusc.inter.net!koepenick.wolfi!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:105514 graymaus@walrus.com wrote in news:a8q66j$u5l4l$1@ID-132592.news.dfncis.de: Somehow the distinction between online services and teletext is starting to blur again. I'll try to sort it out. [teletext] > We have on here , waiting in a hospital some time ago , i used one and > decided I wanted someting like that . The remote control used with it > went dead , I got a replacement that hadn't a teletext button , never > missed . Teletext is full of official guff . Where are you and what station did you read? Teletext is what the TV station chooses to put on it. It depends on the station's management what's on there, just like with its TV content. [online] >> That is not Teletext, rather is Minitel (name in France), Prestel >> (Britain), BTX (Germany), Videotex (Switzerland). >> > > Slightly differing standards? IE , the same program/unit wont work > with all?. IIRC they're all the same standard except Minitel. France is always different. [teletext] > Teletext probably will remain , cheaper , easier to work . Not much > usefull on it . Well I find it useful that I can read the schedule of any TV station on screen. No need to buy it. Also useful that you can get the latest news flashs without waiting for the next TV or radio newscast. [online] > AFAIK , beside Minitel , most are dead . Yes. Well, good marketing on the side of Minitel. Internet killed the rest. Regards -- Look at them coders thats the way y do it y chat bout hackin on the irc That aint workin thats th way y do it hardware f nothin & yr source f free We gotta install operating systems, custom kernel deliverieeeeees We gotta solve these user problems, we gotta move these pentium threeeees I want my, I want my, I want my IRC (c) userfriendly.org ###### Message-ID: <3CB0F525.BFC78B30@nospam.cogeco.ca> From: dan braun X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NAPLPS --> Re: First images in email? References: <3cac4251$1_2@news.iglou.com> <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 59 Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 21:40:53 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.141.17.238 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cogeco.ca X-Trace: read1.cgocable.net 1018230051 24.141.17.238 (Sun, 07 Apr 2002 21:40:51 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 21:40:51 EDT Organization: Cogeco Cable Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!xmission!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.cgocable.net!read1.cgocable.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:105545 This was my introduction to teletext as well, may of these terminals were in schools (as were mine) and several shopping malls and in the Ontario Science Centre in Toronto. Later, when attending Niagara College in Welland, Ontario, I Did meet several people (teachers mostly) that were directly involved with the ontario telidon system rollout. Very interesting indeed !! I actually have a couple of the sony naplps terminals in my hardware archive (read junk pile) that still work. I remember that www.simtel.com use to have several downloadlable files in their archive dealing with naplps graphic viewing and creation. Does anybody out there have a NTSC Vertical Interval encoder for the telidon teletext systems? I'd love to play with the system again. You could get quite nice rendering of pictures with the use of very little data transfered. It was indeed a wonderful system that was killed long before it's time. dan extempore wrote: > > This sounds similar to a system that was set up on a trial basis in > Canada around in 1981 or 82. (There was a display at the Food Show at > Exhibition Place in Toronto.) > > This was when the Cdn. government was really pushing their TELIDON > initiative (which, BTW, had some really cool graphics and fractal-like > generation for its time - our local cable company (Rogers) used to use > those graphics generously on their barker channels) and there was a > program, in conjunction with Bell Canada, where if you signed up for > the trial, they would give you a box (which looked similar to a Coleco > Adam, IIRC) and an acoustic modem (probably 300bps). The monitor was > your home TV set. > I would LOVE pointers to more history and information on this project, > post or mail me please! > > > extempore -- Dan Braun - Broadcast Engineering / CityTV Burlington, Ontario, Canada http://www.pegasoft.ca mailto:dbraun@nospam.cogeco.ca mailto:dan@nospam.pegasoft.ca ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NAPLPS --> Re: First images in email? References: <3cac4251$1_2@news.iglou.com> <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca> Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 07 Apr 2002 23:54:33 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 8 Apr 2002 00:02:17 -0700, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!feed-ev1!propagator-sterling!news-in.nuthinbutnews.com!news.kjsl.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:105567 dan braun writes: > the teletext standard in north america was call NAPLPS - North American > Presentation Layer Protocol Syntax. > > But i don't think it was used in email, mostly, bbs systems and vertical > interval television broadcast data transfers. And the NAPLPS standard was withdrawn not too long ago. ###### From: brian_huntley@hotmail.com (Brian Huntley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NAPLPS --> Re: First images in email? Date: 8 Apr 2002 13:57:21 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 26 Message-ID: <2072304b.0204081257.6b0cf314@posting.google.com> References: <3cac4251$1_2@news.iglou.com> <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 142.205.241.128 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1018299442 13731 127.0.0.1 (8 Apr 2002 20:57:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Apr 2002 20:57:22 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!xmission!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:105726 extempore wrote in message news:... > > This sounds similar to a system that was set up on a trial basis in > Canada around in 1981 or 82. (There was a display at the Food Show at > Exhibition Place in Toronto.) > > This was when the Cdn. government was really pushing their TELIDON > initiative (which, BTW, had some really cool graphics and fractal-like > generation for its time - our local cable company (Rogers) used to use > those graphics generously on their barker channels) and there was a > program, in conjunction with Bell Canada, where if you signed up for > the trial, they would give you a box (which looked similar to a Coleco > Adam, IIRC) and an acoustic modem (probably 300bps). The monitor was > your home TV set. [snip] > I would LOVE pointers to more history and information on this project, > post or mail me please! I co-wrote a NAPLPS package for Primos, and created some images to test it out. It was a lot of fun at the time. As I recall, the prairie provinces got into it a lot, with things like grain prices and agroweather on-line via Telidon. Since the drawing primatives were tiny (mostly 2-4 bytes) they suited slow 300 bps modems well. I have a lot of info on it, but it's all either hardcopy or on Primos tapes (and probably MagSAV, not MagNET format, at that.) Sorry. ###### Message-ID: <3CB378D4.29733EE9@cogeco.ca> From: dan braun X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NAPLPS --> Re: First images in email? References: <3cac4251$1_2@news.iglou.com> <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 19:27:16 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.141.17.238 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cogeco.ca X-Trace: read1.cgocable.net 1018394814 24.141.17.238 (Tue, 09 Apr 2002 19:26:54 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 19:26:54 EDT Organization: Cogeco Cable Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.cgocable.net!read1.cgocable.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:105781 Does anybody know what Vertical Interval line and field the telidon / teletext infomation was broadcast on in NTSC ? dan braun wrote: > the teletext standard in north america was call NAPLPS - North American > Presentation Layer Protocol Syntax. > > dan -- Dan Braun - Broadcast Engineering / CityTV Burlington, Ontario, Canada http://www.pegasoft.ca mailto:dbraun.nospam@cogeco.ca mailto:dan.nospam@pegasoft.ca please remove nospam for email ###### Reply-To: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3cac4251$1_2@news.iglou.com> <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca> Subject: Re: NAPLPS --> Re: First images in email? Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:01:45 -0400 Lines: 19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 Message-ID: <3cbc4aea$1_1@news.iglou.com> X-Trace: news.iglou.com 1018972906 204.250.0.238 (16 Apr 2002 12:01:46 -0400) X-Authenticated-User: dougq X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!ash.uu.net!news.iglou.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:106144 "Eric Smith" wrote in message = news:qhk7riptna.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com... > dan braun writes: > > the teletext standard in north america was call NAPLPS - North = American > > Presentation Layer Protocol Syntax. > >=20 > > But i don't think it was used in email, mostly, bbs systems and = vertical > > interval television broadcast data transfers. >=20 > And the NAPLPS standard was withdrawn not too long ago. How do you withdraw a standard? "Domine, Domine, Domine, you ain't a standard no more..." -dq ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NAPLPS --> Re: First images in email? References: <3cac4251$1_2@news.iglou.com> <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca> <3cbc4aea$1_1@news.iglou.com> Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 19 Apr 2002 01:45:24 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 6 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 19 Apr 2002 01:55:07 -0700, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!news.kjsl.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:106420 "Douglas H. Quebbeman" writes: > How do you withdraw a standard? The standards body simply announces that it is withdrawn, and no longer lists it as an official standard. ###### Reply-To: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3cac4251$1_2@news.iglou.com> <3CACEC22.3C1F11EE@cogeco.ca> <3cbc4aea$1_1@news.iglou.com> Subject: Re: NAPLPS --> Re: First images in email? Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:53:13 -0400 Lines: 17 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 Message-ID: <3ccd5e5b_1@news.iglou.com> X-Trace: news.iglou.com 1020091995 204.250.0.238 (29 Apr 2002 10:53:15 -0400) X-Authenticated-User: dougq X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!feed.newsfeeds.com!news-xfer2.newshosting.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!ash.uu.net!news.iglou.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:106960 "Eric Smith" wrote in message = news:qhr8lcdql7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com... > "Douglas H. Quebbeman" writes: > > How do you withdraw a standard? >=20 > The standards body simply announces that it is withdrawn, and no = longer > lists it as an official standard. I'm sure the same committee of people were standing around shoving all the world's Evil back into Pandora's box, too... ...and we all know how that turned out, don't we? ;)