From: zaitcev@yahoo.com (Pete Zaitcev) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Home mainframe, updates from eBay Date: 12 Mar 2002 07:40:13 GMT Organization: Red Hat Inc. Lines: 82 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: devserv.devel.redhat.com X-Trace: cronkite.cygnus.com 1015918813 2027 172.16.58.1 (12 Mar 2002 07:40:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@cygnus.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Mar 2002 07:40:13 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.1 (Linux) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!204.94.211.44!enews.sgi.com!cygnus.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:103722 I started to monitor eBay looking for functioning, inexpensive mainframes, and my list suddenly grew up. Here's what I have so far. Possible home mainframes - Historic * 7437 The oldest small mainframe. Was undeservedly unsuccessful, so there is no chance to find one. May have no internal disks, so assumes block mux and an array. * "Racetrack" possibly an alias of 7437. * Amdahl something A precise ripoff of that was made by IZOT, Bulgaria, and I saw it. It was a box of a size of an under desk filing cabinet. But it used block-mux, which is a problem. Needs console diagnostic CPU of the same size as the machine proper (with CPU, core and channels all together), booting from 8" floppies (PITA to prevent from bitrot). Probably impossible to find now. - MCA & PCI add-on boards and emulators. * P/370 Board for PS/2 Needs some binary software for OS/2 or AIX to run. Not Linux capable. * 9370 possibly an alias for P/370. * P/390 & P/390E Same as P/370, but faster and Linux capable. May make some sense if a good deal is found. G4 & G5 CPUs. - Desksides and pedestals * s390 Multiprise 3000 H50 Linux capable. Size seems ok. Uses IBM channel I/O, but perhaps can be used with PCI. As of 2000 still is available from IBM. http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/s390/multiprise/ [Too fresh, too expensive] * 5362 (year 1985). <> $200 Was sold on eBay, pictures available. About the size of Sun-4/330, pedestal type box. Small front panel. 8" floppy (for microcode?). Does not seem to have a console terminal. Internals seem to contain 2 HUGE (8" ?) winchester disks. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2004818633 ? Is it s390 or AS/400? The model number looks VERY suspicious. ? Will it boot without microcode floppies? ? Can it be brought up without a console? Minicomputer racks (Usually shipped on a pallet). * 9672-R21 $200 Was sold on eBay, pictures available. About the size of Sun-4/690. CPU has both front and rear boards, arranged in a rack similar to two VME boxes back to back. CPU and channels is about 11U tall. The thing comes in a 23" wide, 68" tall cabinet (approximately). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2008273328 [Barely fit regular entusiast's scale, if you consider storage] ? Does it need any console CPU? * ES 9221 model 191 $3500 started on eBay. Three cabinets: CPU, I/O, and RAMAC. Uses a console PS/2 (no 8" disks are needed; but OS/2 binaries are). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2007071573 [Seems to be a tall order even for a most dedicated and wealthy enthusiast]. Comments are welcome. -- Pete ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 24.69.27.62 From: ajwotherspoon@NOSPAM.shaw.ca (Alex) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Home mainframe, updates from eBay Message-ID: <3c8db42e.8929048@shawnews.gv.shawcable.net> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 32 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:48:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.64.223.206 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news3.calgary.shaw.ca 1015919327 24.64.223.206 (Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:48:47 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:48:47 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news3.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:103769 On 12 Mar 2002 07:40:13 GMT, zaitcev@yahoo.com (Pete Zaitcev) wrote: >I started to monitor eBay looking for functioning, inexpensive >mainframes, and my list suddenly grew up. Here's what I have so far. > > > Possible home mainframes > > - Historic > > A "5362" is an IBM System/36. The case looks similar to a small AS/400 that followed the S/36. The full size S/36 was a "5360". > >* 5362 (year 1985). <> >$200 >Was sold on eBay, pictures available. About the size of Sun-4/330, >pedestal type box. Small front panel. 8" floppy (for microcode?). >Does not seem to have a console terminal. >Internals seem to contain 2 HUGE (8" ?) winchester disks. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2004818633 > >? Is it s390 or AS/400? The model number looks VERY suspicious. >? Will it boot without microcode floppies? >? Can it be brought up without a console? > > Minicomputer racks > (Usually shipped on a pallet). > > ###### From: "Hans Vlems" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: Subject: Re: Home mainframe, updates from eBay Lines: 89 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:06:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.61.3.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@vianetworks.nl X-Trace: typhoon.bart.nl 1015970762 212.61.3.66 (Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:06:02 MET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:06:02 MET Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!opentransit.net!proxad.net!proxad.net!newshub.bart.net!typhoon.bart.nl!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:103747 The 9370 was an entry level S/370 series. IIRC it ran VSE and VM. Not sure whether MVS was supported on it. Pete Zaitcev wrote in message news:slrna8rc6s.r5b.zaitcev@devserv.devel.redhat.com... > I started to monitor eBay looking for functioning, inexpensive > mainframes, and my list suddenly grew up. Here's what I have so far. > > > Possible home mainframes > > - Historic > > * 7437 > The oldest small mainframe. Was undeservedly unsuccessful, > so there is no chance to find one. May have no internal disks, > so assumes block mux and an array. > > * "Racetrack" > possibly an alias of 7437. > > * Amdahl something > A precise ripoff of that was made by IZOT, Bulgaria, and I saw it. > It was a box of a size of an under desk filing cabinet. > But it used block-mux, which is a problem. Needs console diagnostic > CPU of the same size as the machine proper (with CPU, core and > channels all together), booting from 8" floppies (PITA to prevent > from bitrot). Probably impossible to find now. > > - MCA & PCI add-on boards and emulators. > > * P/370 > Board for PS/2 Needs some binary software for OS/2 or AIX to run. > Not Linux capable. > > * 9370 > possibly an alias for P/370. > > * P/390 & P/390E > Same as P/370, but faster and Linux capable. May make some sense > if a good deal is found. G4 & G5 CPUs. > > - Desksides and pedestals > > * s390 Multiprise 3000 H50 > Linux capable. Size seems ok. Uses IBM channel I/O, but perhaps > can be used with PCI. As of 2000 still is available from IBM. > http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/s390/multiprise/ > [Too fresh, too expensive] > > * 5362 (year 1985). <> > $200 > Was sold on eBay, pictures available. About the size of Sun-4/330, > pedestal type box. Small front panel. 8" floppy (for microcode?). > Does not seem to have a console terminal. > Internals seem to contain 2 HUGE (8" ?) winchester disks. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2004818633 > > ? Is it s390 or AS/400? The model number looks VERY suspicious. > ? Will it boot without microcode floppies? > ? Can it be brought up without a console? > > Minicomputer racks > (Usually shipped on a pallet). > > * 9672-R21 > $200 > Was sold on eBay, pictures available. About the size of Sun-4/690. > CPU has both front and rear boards, arranged in a rack similar > to two VME boxes back to back. CPU and channels is about 11U tall. > The thing comes in a 23" wide, 68" tall cabinet (approximately). > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2008273328 > [Barely fit regular entusiast's scale, if you consider storage] > > ? Does it need any console CPU? > > * ES 9221 model 191 > > $3500 started on eBay. Three cabinets: CPU, I/O, and RAMAC. > Uses a console PS/2 (no 8" disks are needed; but OS/2 binaries are). > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2007071573 > [Seems to be a tall order even for a most dedicated and wealthy > enthusiast]. > > Comments are welcome. > > -- Pete ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Home mainframe, updates from eBay Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:07:56 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.4 (Linux) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 65 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!hub1.nntpserver.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!sn-xit-04!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!jmaynard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:103703 On 12 Mar 2002 07:40:13 GMT, Pete Zaitcev wrote: >* P/370 >Board for PS/2 Needs some binary software for OS/2 or AIX to run. >Not Linux capable. MCA board. 16 MB real memory max. Will work in any MCA RS/6000 supported by AIX 3.2.5, as well as some (most?) PS/2s. AIX and OS/2 software available for download from IBM, but not the microcode that's also required. I have one of these in an RS/6000 7012-360. >* 9370 >possibly an alias for P/370. Nope. The 9370 was introduced as a departmental machine in the early 1990s. The smallest configuration I know of is a full rack high by the time you add DASD. Nearly all of these ran VM/SP; I don't even know if MVS/SP would run on them. Definitely 370 architecture, not XA or later. >* P/390 & P/390E >Same as P/370, but faster and Linux capable. May make some sense >if a good deal is found. G4 & G5 CPUs. The P/390 came in two flavors, MCA and PCI. The MCA one will run in any MCA RS/6000 supported by AIX 4.1 through 4.3, as well as some (most?) PS/2s. The PCI one will only run in a few specific models of PS/2; I don;t know about specific RS/6000 compatibility. AIX and OS/2 software available for download from IBM, but not the microcode. Does not support Architectural Level Set 2 (the G5 level), so OS/390 2.10 is the last version that will run. Both versions use the same microcode, but different drivers. The MCA drivers haven't been updated since AIX 4.1.5, but work on later 4.x versions. The MCA board comes with 32 MB real memory standard, and a daughterboard (that takes up another MCA slot) adds 96 MB more. About 4 MIPS. I believe the PCI version comes standard with 128 MB. The P/390E is only a PCI board. It runs about 7 MIPS. The latest microcode version supports ALS-2, and so will run z/OS in 32-bit mode. Different microcode and drivers from the P/390s. I don't know what machines it will run in, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was as picky as the PCI P/390. I believe it comes standard with either 128 or 256 MB; a 1 GB version is rumored, but I know of none in the real world. All of these require some tweaking to run Linux natively (IIRC, you must tell Linux at boot time that it has 4 MB less real memory than is actually present). I have an MCA P/390 in an RS/6000 7009-C10. >* 9672-R21 >$200 >Was sold on eBay, pictures available. About the size of Sun-4/690. >CPU has both front and rear boards, arranged in a rack similar >to two VME boxes back to back. CPU and channels is about 11U tall. >The thing comes in a 23" wide, 68" tall cabinet (approximately). > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2008273328 >[Barely fit regular entusiast's scale, if you consider storage] Not to mention power and peripherals. This is the earliest generation of CMOS processor, and so isn't useful to commercial shops running IBM stuff any more. As time marches on and z/Series systems become more prevalent, later versions of these should get cheaper. >? Does it need any console CPU? It should include one, if needed. (A ThinkPad, IIRC.) ###### Message-ID: <3C8EBF42.37DBC220@caloundra.qld.gov.au> From: Bernie Dwyer Organization: Very Little X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Home mainframe, updates from eBay References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 40 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:53:54 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.52.54.194 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 1015988011 203.52.54.194 (Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:53:31 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:53:31 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:103808 Pete Zaitcev wrote: > > > * 5362 (year 1985). <> > $200 > Was sold on eBay, pictures available. About the size of Sun-4/330, > pedestal type box. Small front panel. 8" floppy (for microcode?). > Does not seem to have a console terminal. > Internals seem to contain 2 HUGE (8" ?) winchester disks. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2004818633 > > ? Is it s390 or AS/400? The model number looks VERY suspicious. It's a baby System/36 > ? Will it boot without microcode floppies? Yes - if the O/S is intact. The 8" floppy drive is a "normal" device, i.e. you can read and write to 8" floppies via user-level O/S commands. > ? Can it be brought up without a console? Hmmmmm - I believe so, but you might need to know the tweak. > I "grew up" on a 5360 - It had a console readout (only about 8 digits IIRC), and a hex keyboard! You could tell it to bypass most of the hardware POST by keying FF00 then pressing the start or IPL button - my first exposure to the "internals" ! We had to compress/compact the DASD every day, or we'd run out of Task Work Area by lunchtime. I was most disappointed when it was replaced by an AS400 - not nearly as many blinkenlights! -- Bernie Dwyer Dump the z to reply to me *****************************