From: claird@starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) Newsgroups: comp.lang.python,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Python Gotcha with Octal Numbers Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:22:47 -0600 Organization: Unknown Lines: 19 Message-ID: <2D484E1BB24678AC.1496996E81BD013F.73A9A3A001BEE345@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: References: <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Wed Feb 13 10:56:15 2002 NNTP-Posting-Host: !X*Bd1k-Y.+XUXk (Encoded at Airnews!) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.airnews.net!cabal11.airnews.net!cabal2.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!starbase.neosoft.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:101612 In article <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net>, John W. Baxter wrote: . . . >Did the elves at AT&T pick up the "leading 0 means octal" from >something earlier, or did they invent this stupidity themselves? . . . OK, folks, how far back *can* we trace this? My mind associates it with DEC systems, going back to the '60s, but I couldn't find any confirmation of that in a quick search. -- Cameron Laird Business: http://www.Phaseit.net Personal: http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html ###### From: rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner) Newsgroups: comp.lang.python,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Python Gotcha with Octal Numbers Organization: FIELDATA FORTRAN ENTHUSIASTS CLUB Reply-To: rsteiner@visi.com Message-ID: References: <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> <2D484E1BB24678AC.1496996E81BD013F.73A9A3A001BEE345@lp.airnews.net> X-Newsreader: Yarn for OS/2 v0.92 X-Stuff-Running: There are 55 Processes with 209 Threads. X-HomePage: http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner Lines: 25 User-Agent: VSoup v1.2.9.48Beta [OS/2] Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:08:50 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.25.198.250 X-Complaints-To: abuse@visi.com X-Trace: ruti.visi.com 1013623984 65.25.198.250 (Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:13:04 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:13:04 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!ruti.visi.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:101626 Here in alt.folklore.computers, claird@starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) spake unto us, saying: >In article <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net>, >John W. Baxter wrote: > . >>Did the elves at AT&T pick up the "leading 0 means octal" from >>something earlier, or did they invent this stupidity themselves? > . >OK, folks, how far back *can* we trace this? My >mind associates it with DEC systems, going back >to the '60s, but I couldn't find any confirmation >of that in a quick search. I've seen the leading-zero-means-octal convention used rather heavily in documentation dated 1967-1968 in a UNIVAC 1106/1108 context. It seems to have been a fairly well-established convention at that point in time, at least in the UNIVAC world. -- -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS + PC/GEOS + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-) Press CTRL-ALT-INS-DEL-END-HOME-SHIFT-PAUSE to continue. ###### Reply-To: "Steve Holden" From: "Steve Holden" Newsgroups: comp.lang.python,alt.folklore.computers References: <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> <2D484E1BB24678AC.1496996E81BD013F.73A9A3A001BEE345@lp.airnews.net> Subject: Re: Python Gotcha with Octal Numbers Lines: 40 Organization: Holden Web MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: <_dya8.209628$KM2.8685845@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:27:06 EST Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:27:17 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!newsfeeds-atl1.usenetserver.com!atlpnn01.usenetserver.com.POSTED!c9260488!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:101695 "Richard Steiner" wrote in message news:yuqa8oHpvCEW092yn@visi.com... > Here in alt.folklore.computers, > claird@starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) spake unto us, saying: > > >In article <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net>, > >John W. Baxter wrote: > > . > >>Did the elves at AT&T pick up the "leading 0 means octal" from > >>something earlier, or did they invent this stupidity themselves? > > . > >OK, folks, how far back *can* we trace this? My > >mind associates it with DEC systems, going back > >to the '60s, but I couldn't find any confirmation > >of that in a quick search. > > I've seen the leading-zero-means-octal convention used rather heavily > in documentation dated 1967-1968 in a UNIVAC 1106/1108 context. > > It seems to have been a fairly well-established convention at that > point in time, at least in the UNIVAC world. > Indeed, this was also true of the UNIVAC 418 which predated the 1100 series. Ah me, ah my, FastRand drums. One of the engineers told me that they turned sewer pipes down on a precision lathe to make those huge horizontal drums. Certainly impressive to look at, but less fun when you had to hire a crane to deliver one through a fourth floor window. [drools into beard] those-were-the-days-ly y'rs - steve -- Consulting, training, speaking: http://www.holdenweb.com/ Author, Python Web Programming: http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/ "This is Python. We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects with useful practice." Aahz Maruch on c.l.py ###### From: "George R. Gonzalez" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Python Gotcha with Octal Numbers Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:35:56 -0600 Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> <2D484E1BB24678AC.1496996E81BD013F.73A9A3A001BEE345@lp.airnews.net> <_dya8.209628$KM2.8685845@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1013625668 12726 160.94.124.25 (13 Feb 2002 18:41:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!sfo2-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!logbridge.uoregon.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!laurel.tc.umn.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:101701 It's not just Python-- last year I was tidying up some HOSTS file on I think Windows/98. I put a bunch of leading zeroes on IP numbers so they'd all line up pretty. That broke TCP/IP. Looking at the ethernet, I saw the PC was trying to contact the wrong name server, at a number that was too low. Hmmm.... funny coincidence, the IP addresses are all about 1/3 low.... Argghhh!! Some silly bit of code is taking the leading zeroes as meaning OCTAL ip address bytes!!!! Leading zeroes had to come off. ###### From: rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner) Newsgroups: comp.lang.python,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Python Gotcha with Octal Numbers Organization: FIELDATA FORTRAN ENTHUSIASTS CLUB Reply-To: rsteiner@visi.com Message-ID: References: <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> <2D484E1BB24678AC.1496996E81BD013F.73A9A3A001BEE345@lp.airnews.net> <_dya8.209628$KM2.8685845@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: Yarn for OS/2 v0.92 X-Stuff-Running: There are 55 Processes with 209 Threads. X-HomePage: http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner Lines: 14 User-Agent: VSoup v1.2.9.48Beta [OS/2] Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:08:32 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.25.198.250 X-Complaints-To: abuse@visi.com X-Trace: ruti.visi.com 1013631221 65.25.198.250 (Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:13:41 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:13:41 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ruti.visi.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:101698 Here in alt.folklore.computers, "Steve Holden" spake unto us, saying: >Ah me, ah my, FastRand drums. I've never seen one, but I know of a web page. :-) http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/fastrand.html -- -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS + PC/GEOS + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-) Ever notice how poems in pig-latin always rhyme? ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: comp.lang.python,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Python Gotcha with Octal Numbers Date: Thu, 14 Feb 02 11:22:36 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> <2D484E1BB24678AC.1496996E81BD013F.73A9A3A001BEE345@lp.airnews.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYxcr/iidQaqvbXpmuSZtzfpes7vP2f1xQCKLU75G+DZ3NSISE44abA X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Feb 2002 13:36:34 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-6 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:101821 In article <2D484E1BB24678AC.1496996E81BD013F.73A9A3A001BEE345@lp.airnews.net>, claird@starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) wrote: >In article <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net>, >John W. Baxter wrote: > . > . > . >>Did the elves at AT&T pick up the "leading 0 means octal" from >>something earlier, or did they invent this stupidity themselves? > . > . > . >OK, folks, how far back *can* we trace this? My >mind associates it with DEC systems, going back >to the '60s, but I couldn't find any confirmation >of that in a quick search. You will never find a DEC standard that ever defined a number with a leading zero to be octal. I never typed up anything that ever had that kind of standard. You must be confusing the character zero with the letter O. In MACRO you could force the assembler to evaluate any number by using a prefix: ^D meant decimal; ^O meant octal. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: comp.lang.python,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Python Gotcha with Octal Numbers Date: Fri, 15 Feb 02 11:09:20 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 69 Message-ID: References: <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> <2D484E1BB24678AC.1496996E81BD013F.73A9A3A001BEE345@lp.airnews.net> <140220020703593280%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbesi07s39U4vshLeD3ry/bwsVebYzsFklCDdGC2uJaq10YsKFPayC3 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Feb 2002 13:23:28 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-212 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:101795 In article <140220020703593280%jwbaxter@spamcop.net>, "John W. Baxter" wrote: >In article , wrote: > >> In article >> <2D484E1BB24678AC.1496996E81BD013F.73A9A3A001BEE345@lp.airnews.net>, >> claird@starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) wrote: >> >In article <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net>, >> >John W. Baxter wrote: >> > . >> > . >> > . >> >>Did the elves at AT&T pick up the "leading 0 means octal" from >> >>something earlier, or did they invent this stupidity themselves? >> > . >> > . >> > . >> >OK, folks, how far back *can* we trace this? My >> >mind associates it with DEC systems, going back >> >to the '60s, but I couldn't find any confirmation >> >of that in a quick search. >> >> You will never find a DEC standard that ever defined >> a number with a leading zero to be octal. I never >> typed up anything that ever had that kind of standard. > >Well, Digital's hardware was what the AT&T elves worked with, so the >connection is certainly there, but not necessarily coming in from DEC. Ah, but they had to define their own standards ;-). > >I can't remember from my not-extensive messing about with PDP-1 (serial >1, provided at no charge and with support by DEC) at MIT whether that >assembler used a leading 0 to signal octal, or used something else. That is before my time. By the time I started doing stuff, there were pseudo-ops in the assembler. I do have two memoes that I found in my office boxes that were addressed to PDP-1 users. I don't know the people who wrote them (Roland Silver, Edward Fredkin) nor where they were. The first defines the terms we still use today and the second specifies all of the info that has to go along with a program. The example given is a writeup of dvd and i-dvd by Bill Fletcher. There doesn't seem to be any indication about how numbers are to be viewed in these memoes. >[Octal was natural on that machine...hex wasn't an issue.] That >assembler pretty much moved to the PDP-1 from the older TX-0 >("Transistorized eXperimental" and the round thing is zero) next door. > >And then moved on to DEC along with a bunch of people, who were key >parts of the technical staff for a long time. That was a very fertile >"seeding" by the General. And produced "SpaceWar." Well, if you can give me a clue about these memoes that I have, I'd appreciate it. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: hoh@invalid.invalid (Goran Larsson) Subject: Re: Python Gotcha with Octal Numbers Message-ID: Organization: [1] + 5934 done /bin/rm -rf ~/ & X-No-Archive: yes X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test73 (May 24, 2000) References: <_dya8.209628$KM2.8685845@atlpnn01.usenetserver.com> Lines: 34 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.151.135.235 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 1013641263 212.151.135.235 (Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:01:03 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:01:03 MET DST X-Sender: q-11932@d212-151-135-235.swipnet.se Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:55:43 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:101925 In article , George R. Gonzalez wrote: > I put a bunch of leading zeroes on IP numbers so > they'd all line up pretty. Bad move. > That broke TCP/IP. No, it didn't. It broke your configuration. > Argghhh!! Some silly bit of code > is taking the leading zeroes as meaning OCTAL ip address bytes!!!! IPv4 Addresses Values specified using `.' notation take one of the following forms: d.d.d.d d.d.d d.d d Numbers supplied as parts in `.' notation may be decimal, octal, or hexadecimal, as specified in the C language. For example, a leading 0x or 0X implies hexadecimal; otherwise, a leading 0 implies octal; otherwise, the number is interpreted as decimal. > Leading zeroes had to come off. You could have used 0xA05EE972 to get nice columns. :-) -- Göran Larsson hoh AT approve DOT se ###### From: "John W. Baxter" Newsgroups: comp.lang.python,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Python Gotcha with Octal Numbers Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:03:59 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <140220020703593280%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> References: <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> <2D484E1BB24678AC.1496996E81BD013F.73A9A3A001BEE345@lp.airnews.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Thoth/1.2.2 (Carbon/OS X) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 39 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!isdnet!sn-xit-02!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!jwbaxter Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:101856 In article , wrote: > In article > <2D484E1BB24678AC.1496996E81BD013F.73A9A3A001BEE345@lp.airnews.net>, > claird@starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) wrote: > >In article <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net>, > >John W. Baxter wrote: > > . > > . > > . > >>Did the elves at AT&T pick up the "leading 0 means octal" from > >>something earlier, or did they invent this stupidity themselves? > > . > > . > > . > >OK, folks, how far back *can* we trace this? My > >mind associates it with DEC systems, going back > >to the '60s, but I couldn't find any confirmation > >of that in a quick search. > > You will never find a DEC standard that ever defined > a number with a leading zero to be octal. I never > typed up anything that ever had that kind of standard. Well, Digital's hardware was what the AT&T elves worked with, so the connection is certainly there, but not necessarily coming in from DEC. I can't remember from my not-extensive messing about with PDP-1 (serial 1, provided at no charge and with support by DEC) at MIT whether that assembler used a leading 0 to signal octal, or used something else. [Octal was natural on that machine...hex wasn't an issue.] That assembler pretty much moved to the PDP-1 from the older TX-0 ("Transistorized eXperimental" and the round thing is zero) next door. And then moved on to DEC along with a bunch of people, who were key parts of the technical staff for a long time. That was a very fertile "seeding" by the General. And produced "SpaceWar." --John ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: comp.lang.python,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Python Gotcha with Octal Numbers Date: Sat, 16 Feb 02 10:44:42 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> <2D484E1BB24678AC.1496996E81BD013F.73A9A3A001BEE345@lp.airnews.net> <140220020703593280%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> <3C6DA497.9AB8D624@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZZPRjsII7MKN9/ujEJhooFMAYsMFxL9VdMMTKx5qa4YsXB7FaPN2P6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Feb 2002 12:58:58 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-42 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:101950 In article <3C6DA497.9AB8D624@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> >> I do have two memoes that I found in my office boxes that were >> addressed to PDP-1 users. I don't know the people who wrote >> them (Roland Silver, Edward Fredkin) nor where they were. >> >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> >> Well, if you can give me a clue about these memoes that I have, I'd >> appreciate it. >> >Ed Fredkin is semi-famous. He was mentioned prominantly in David >Levy's book _Hackers_. He also invented some data structures that >are used today, notably the "trie". > I don't know what a "trie" is, but I do (make that, did) have the _Hackers_ book. I don't know where these memoes came from. I guess there was a reason for making us put a logo on top of all memoes after all (I take back all of the swears I said back then). Now I'll have to see if I can find my _Hackers_ book. I neated my library so that all of my books were in one place. I wonder what book I'll have to look for in order to have _Hackers_ pop up in front of me. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: comp.lang.python,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Python Gotcha with Octal Numbers Date: Sat, 16 Feb 02 10:47:43 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <140220020703593280%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> <3C6DA497.9AB8D624@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVa7Kvn0D/KXESNAm8+8aEiw+2DMEj2N1YPfBFhSu2e7pKeSJXnhoFc1 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Feb 2002 13:01:59 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-42 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:101943 In article , claird@starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) wrote: >In article <3C6DA497.9AB8D624@ev1.net>, >Charles Richmond wrote: >>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >>> >>> I do have two memoes that I found in my office boxes that were >>> addressed to PDP-1 users. I don't know the people who wrote >>> them (Roland Silver, Edward Fredkin) nor where they were. >>> >>> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >>> >>> Well, if you can give me a clue about these memoes that I have, I'd >>> appreciate it. >>> >>Ed Fredkin is semi-famous. He was mentioned prominantly in David >>Levy's book _Hackers_. He also invented some data structures that >>are used today, notably the "trie". > . > . > . >Oh, yes. There's a whole cult around Fredkin >. > >It's one to which I'm sympathetic, as it happens. Thanks. Now I'll have to arrange a trip to the library to see if this site has these memoes on-line. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Message-ID: <3C6DA497.9AB8D624@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.python,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Python Gotcha with Octal Numbers References: <130220020751360934%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> <2D484E1BB24678AC.1496996E81BD013F.73A9A3A001BEE345@lp.airnews.net> <140220020703593280%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.237.69.87 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net 1013811306 12.237.69.87 (Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:15:06 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:15:06 GMT Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:15:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:101984 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > I do have two memoes that I found in my office boxes that were > addressed to PDP-1 users. I don't know the people who wrote > them (Roland Silver, Edward Fredkin) nor where they were. > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > Well, if you can give me a clue about these memoes that I have, I'd > appreciate it. > Ed Fredkin is semi-famous. He was mentioned prominantly in David Levy's book _Hackers_. He also invented some data structures that are used today, notably the "trie". -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: claird@starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) Newsgroups: comp.lang.python,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Python Gotcha with Octal Numbers Date: 15 Feb 2002 17:51:49 -0600 Organization: Unknown Lines: 30 Message-ID: X-Orig-Message-ID: References: <140220020703593280%jwbaxter@spamcop.net> <3C6DA497.9AB8D624@ev1.net> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library2.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Fri Feb 15 17:24:52 2002 NNTP-Posting-Host: !d>2$1k-X=;HORb (Encoded at Airnews!) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!nnxp1.twtelecom.net!news-east.rr.com!cyclone.kc.rr.com!news.kc.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!news.airnews.net!cabal10.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!starbase.neosoft.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:101937 In article <3C6DA497.9AB8D624@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> >> I do have two memoes that I found in my office boxes that were >> addressed to PDP-1 users. I don't know the people who wrote >> them (Roland Silver, Edward Fredkin) nor where they were. >> >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> >> Well, if you can give me a clue about these memoes that I have, I'd >> appreciate it. >> >Ed Fredkin is semi-famous. He was mentioned prominantly in David >Levy's book _Hackers_. He also invented some data structures that >are used today, notably the "trie". . . . Oh, yes. There's a whole cult around Fredkin . It's one to which I'm sympathetic, as it happens. -- Cameron Laird Business: http://www.Phaseit.net Personal: http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html ###### From: claird@starbase.neosoft.com (Cameron Laird) Newsgroups: comp.lang.python,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Python Gotcha with Octal Numbers Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:45:55 -0600 Organization: Unknown Lines: 16 Message-ID: <809347551A7862CF.C187F8041154543E.7DFBAE965B423080@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: References: <3C6DA497.9AB8D624@ev1.net> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Mon Feb 18 14:18:07 2002 NNTP-Posting-Host: !_s4N1k-X#CITh] (Encoded at Airnews!) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news.airnews.net!cabal10.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!starbase.neosoft.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:102143 In article , wrote: . . . >I don't know what a "trie" is, but I do (make that, did) have >the _Hackers_ book. I don't know where these memoes came from. . . . A kind of data structure (a tree with certain data) good for storing string data . -- Cameron Laird Business: http://www.Phaseit.net Personal: http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html