Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 From: dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) Subject: C64 / PET floppy disk drive Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <3eo32a.cqa.ln@172.16.100.175> Lines: 27 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:33:23 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.240.131 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1011238202 62.255.240.131 (Thu, 17 Jan 2002 03:30:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 03:30:02 GMT Organization: ntl Business News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!172.16.100.175!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:99121 Periodically we talk about 8-bits, and mass storage. Someone always brings up the Commodore 64 and its floppy drives, and its pathetic software-implemented serial connection, and we all laugh. Now, the C64 floppy drive had its own 6502 (or 6504) processor on it and ran a DOS of its own. The predecessor to it, the IEEE488-interfaced CBM2040 that was used on the PET, had two; a 6502 and a 6504, hooked up on opposite sides of the clock, and probably counts as one of the very first mass-market SMP systems. My question is: given these things had real processors, and real operating systems, what did they run? The only one I've actually used was the CBM2040. IIRC, the 6504 was used in place of a DSP to actually access the disk and the 6502 ran the DOS. There was 4kB of memory, and I've heard of at least one database program that would download its sorting code onto the floppy drive to execute there, so that it could avoid the bandwidth constraints in the IEEE488 link. So there must have been *some* kind of exposed interface. Does anyone know what it was? And what changed with the C64 floppy drive? How come they could do away with the 6504? Did they actually use a real DSP (or PLA)? -- +- David Given --------McQ-+ "[One shot of the Death Star's superlaser has | Work: dg@tao-group.com | enough power] to send Marty McFly to the Big Bang | Play: dg@cowlark.com | and back 1.4x10^29 times." --- William Clifford +- http://www.cowlark.com -+ ###### From: "Simon Bowring" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: C64 / PET floppy disk drive Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:06:26 +0000 (GMT) Organization: MPC Data Limited Distribution: World Message-ID: References: <3eo32a.cqa.ln@172.16.100.175> Reply-To: "Simon Bowring" NNTP-Posting-Host: bath.mpc-data.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mpc-data.demon.co.uk:158.152.55.245 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1011262833 nnrp-08:17668 NO-IDENT mpc-data.demon.co.uk:158.152.55.245 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: PMINews 2.00.1205 For OS/2 Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mpc-data.demon.co.uk!burton.mpc-data.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:99022 On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:33:23 +0000, David Given wrote: >The predecessor to it, the IEEE488-interfaced >CBM2040 that was used on the PET, had two; a 6502 and a 6504, hooked up on >opposite sides of the clock, and probably counts as one of the very first >mass-market SMP systems Although I used to play with PETs as a kid, what you'r asking is far beyond my knowledge of them, however it doesn't sound like it used "SYMETRIC" MultiProcessing, where each processor is the same as the others and any task can run on any processor(s). Lots of systems had/have multiple processors, or processors embedded in periperals (or do I misunderstand you!?) Simon ###### From: "Christopher McNabb" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: C64 / PET floppy disk drive Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:02:35 -0500 Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia, USA Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <3eo32a.cqa.ln@172.16.100.175> NNTP-Posting-Host: morden.cc.vt.edu X-Trace: solaris.cc.vt.edu 1011276379 26585 128.173.14.41 (17 Jan 2002 14:06:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@vt.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:06:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!feed2.onemain.com!news.earthlink.net!feed1.onemain.com!news.atl.earthlink.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:99052 "David Given" wrote in message news:3eo32a.cqa.ln@172.16.100.175... > My question is: given these things had real processors, and real operating > systems, what did they run? Not sure here, but probably just a custom DOS. > disk and the 6502 ran the DOS. There was 4kB of memory, and I've heard of > at least one database program that would download its sorting code onto > the floppy drive to execute there I used to have a disk copying program ( I forget the name ) that one would download into two commodore disk drives. Once the program was downloaded, you could turn the C64 completely off and the the drives would keep copying. When the disks were done copying, you could pull them out of the drive, insert a new source and target disk, and it would start copying again automatically. The copy was also extremely (for the time) fast. -- --- Christopher L McNabb Tel: Deleted Operating Systems Analyst Email: Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Square: EM97SD ###### Message-ID: <3C470143.6CDB20A7@cwnet.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:52:19 -0800 From: Dale DePriest X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: C64 / PET floppy disk drive References: <3eo32a.cqa.ln@172.16.100.175> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.209.113.163 X-Trace: 17 Jan 2002 09:09:12 -0800, 209.209.113.163 Lines: 51 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nf3.bellglobal.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newspeer.cwnet.com!news2.cwnet.com!209.209.113.163 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:99127 Basically the floppy and the printer used a similar operating system to the Pet itself. This was a custom machine language interface with system calls being handed in a table in memory. You just did a jsr to the route you needed and it did the rest, after setting some stuff in page zero to pass information. It wasn't a formal operating system per se but a collection of subroutines, including an interrupt routine based on a timer. The Pet, of course, had a basic language front end to provide a user friendly interface to the os. Communitcation to the floppy was via the commands in the 488 link. I don't think the software implementation of the 488 on the Pet was pathetic but it did slow down a lot on the 64 when it was converted to serial. The conversion could have been done better but the original pet implementation was excellent for its day. Dale David Given wrote: > > Periodically we talk about 8-bits, and mass storage. Someone always brings > up the Commodore 64 and its floppy drives, and its pathetic > software-implemented serial connection, and we all laugh. > > Now, the C64 floppy drive had its own 6502 (or 6504) processor on it and > ran a DOS of its own. The predecessor to it, the IEEE488-interfaced > CBM2040 that was used on the PET, had two; a 6502 and a 6504, hooked up on > opposite sides of the clock, and probably counts as one of the very first > mass-market SMP systems. > > My question is: given these things had real processors, and real operating > systems, what did they run? The only one I've actually used was the > CBM2040. IIRC, the 6504 was used in place of a DSP to actually access the > disk and the 6502 ran the DOS. There was 4kB of memory, and I've heard of > at least one database program that would download its sorting code onto > the floppy drive to execute there, so that it could avoid the bandwidth > constraints in the IEEE488 link. So there must have been *some* kind of > exposed interface. Does anyone know what it was? > > And what changed with the C64 floppy drive? How come they could do away > with the 6504? Did they actually use a real DSP (or PLA)? > > -- > +- David Given --------McQ-+ "[One shot of the Death Star's superlaser has > | Work: dg@tao-group.com | enough power] to send Marty McFly to the Big Bang > | Play: dg@cowlark.com | and back 1.4x10^29 times." --- William Clifford > +- http://www.cowlark.com -+ -- Dale -- http://users.cwnet.com/dalede For GPS data, information on Palm Navigation, and more Read my online manual for Garmin handheld products. ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: C64 / PET floppy disk drive References: <3eo32a.cqa.ln@172.16.100.175> Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 17 Jan 2002 12:23:17 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 49 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 17 Jan 2002 12:35:41 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:99081 dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) writes: > Now, the C64 floppy drive had its own 6502 (or 6504) processor on it and > ran a DOS of its own. The predecessor to it, the IEEE488-interfaced > CBM2040 that was used on the PET, had two; a 6502 and a 6504, hooked up on > opposite sides of the clock, and probably counts as one of the very first > mass-market SMP systems. No, that's definitely not SMP. It's AMP. > My question is: given these things had real processors, and real operating > systems, what did they run? It didn't have an OS. Or it ran the CBM 2040 OS, if you want to look at it that way. > The only one I've actually used was the > CBM2040. IIRC, the 6504 was used in place of a DSP to actually access the > disk and the 6502 ran the DOS. It's all DOS. The 6504 runs the low-level disk driver. There's nothing DSPish about it. In those days, disk controllers (and drives) didn't use DSP; that didn't come about in microcomputer level products until the late 1980s. Now you can't buy a hard drive that doesn't contain a DSP, although it's often buried inside an ASIC. > There was 4kB of memory, and I've heard of > at least one database program that would download its sorting code onto > the floppy drive to execute there, so that it could avoid the bandwidth > constraints in the IEEE488 link. So there must have been *some* kind of > exposed interface. Does anyone know what it was? There were commands to upload and download memory, and to jump to certain specific RAM locations. The addresses of the I/O buffers were documented. > And what changed with the C64 floppy drive? How come they could do away > with the 6504? The 2031, 1540 and followons just ran all the code on the same processor. I'm told that the main loop calls the two parts alternately, and that each part returns when it is out of work to do (which can happen when it's waiting for the other part to do something). I haven't studied the code to confirm this. > Did they actually use a real DSP (or PLA)? No DSP. Later 1541 drives did integrate a bunch of logic into an ASIC. ###### From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: C64 / PET floppy disk drive Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:13:04 -0000 Message-ID: <1011348784.11701.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <3eo32a.cqa.ln@172.16.100.175> Reply-To: "Peter Ibbotson" NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1011348784 nnrp-12:11701 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Lines: 45 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:99110 "Eric Smith" wrote in message news:qhzo3cg216.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com... > dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) writes: > > The only one I've actually used was the > > CBM2040. IIRC, the 6504 was used in place of a DSP to actually access the > > disk and the 6502 ran the DOS. > > It's all DOS. The 6504 runs the low-level disk driver. There's nothing > DSPish about it. In those days, disk controllers (and drives) didn't > use DSP; that didn't come about in microcomputer level products > until the late 1980s. Now you can't buy a hard drive that doesn't > contain a DSP, although it's often buried inside an ASIC. [snip] > The 2031, 1540 and followons just ran all the code on the same > processor. I'm told that the main loop calls the two parts > alternately, and that each part returns when it is out of work to > do (which can happen when it's waiting for the other part to do > something). I haven't studied the code to confirm this. > > > Did they actually use a real DSP (or PLA)? > > No DSP. > IIRC the CBM discs used GCR encoding in a similar manner to the Apple II disc drives, in the Apple case the main CPU did the encoding and decoding. (mostly bit shifting and stuffing). I doubt if it did any DSP work to get the data seperation done (The apple version used some shift registers). I can however see where the confusion arose. Useful DSP nearly always needs a 1 clock MAC instruction, and with a 6502 family part this is very unlikely. Thinking some about this, the confusion here may actually originate with some Rockwell modem chipsets which have a odd 6502 family processor (major extensions to allow >64K access and some mods for dealing with stacks which I though made it look ideal for a forth type language) to do the serial comms and command interpretation plus a built in DSP to do the modem warbling. -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: C64 / PET floppy disk drive Date: 18 Jan 2002 21:46:10 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 77 Message-ID: <6uhepjbd65.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <3eo32a.cqa.ln@172.16.100.175> <1011348784.11701.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1011386770 460 10.0.3.2 (18 Jan 2002 20:46:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Jan 2002 20:46:10 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:99128 "Peter Ibbotson" writes: > "Eric Smith" wrote in message > news:qhzo3cg216.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com... > > dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) writes: > > > The only one I've actually used was the > > > CBM2040. IIRC, the 6504 was used in place of a DSP to actually access > the > > > disk and the 6502 ran the DOS. No DSP. This is a floppy drive, with 250kbit/s data rate and simple straight signals. No extracting traces of bits stuff like modern HDs. > > It's all DOS. The 6504 runs the low-level disk driver. There's nothing Actually it pretends to be an disk controller. It actually interprets bytes "pushed" into a few memory cells, which it pretends to be controller registers. > > The 2031, 1540 and followons just ran all the code on the same > > processor. I'm told that the main loop calls the two parts > > alternately, and that each part returns when it is out of work to > > do (which can happen when it's waiting for the other part to do > > something). I haven't studied the code to confirm this. According to an book[1] I have with an commented disassembly of the 1541 in it, the main program is just DOS, and the controller is run by an 14ms interrupt. [1] Das grosse Floppy Buch, Englisch + Szczepanowski, Data Becker, 1984 > > > Did they actually use a real DSP (or PLA)? > > > > No DSP. And no PLA. > IIRC the CBM discs used GCR encoding in a similar manner to the Apple II Yes. > disc drives, in the Apple case the main CPU did the encoding and decoding. > (mostly bit shifting and stuffing). So here also. The 1.25k of the 2k RAM are used as 5 256byte disk buffers. When a buffer is read the 320 bytes (this is GCR, basically RLL4.1 code) are read 256 into the chosen buffer and the rest 64 into an single "overflow buffer. Then the controller converts GCR->Data. When a buffer is written it is first expanded DATA->GCR into itsself and overflow, and then written. Actual read/write is a spin loop waiting on the V flag of the 6502, which can be set by an processor pin, which is driven by the shift registers clocking system. > I doubt if it did any DSP work to get > the data seperation done (The apple version used some shift registers). AFAIK Apple had an simple PROM based state machine that fed into an shift register. I expect the 1541 to be the same, as an 8bit interface to shift register is documented. > can however see where the confusion arose. Useful DSP nearly always needs a > 1 clock MAC instruction, and with a 6502 family part this is very unlikely. Average 3 clocks per instruction, at 1-4MHz. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 References: <3eo32a.cqa.ln@172.16.100.175> From: dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) Subject: Re: C64 / PET floppy disk drive Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: Lines: 26 Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:07:39 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.240.131 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1011411006 62.255.240.131 (Sat, 19 Jan 2002 03:30:06 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 03:30:06 GMT Organization: ntl Business News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!172.16.100.175!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:99216 In article , Eric Smith writes: [...] > There were commands to upload and download memory, and to jump to > certain specific RAM locations. The addresses of the I/O buffers were > documented. Is there anything documented on the web? >> And what changed with the C64 floppy drive? How come they could do away >> with the 6504? > > The 2031, 1540 and followons just ran all the code on the same > processor. I'm told that the main loop calls the two parts > alternately, and that each part returns when it is out of work to > do (which can happen when it's waiting for the other part to do > something). I haven't studied the code to confirm this. So did they have to increase the clock speed to provide enough processing power to allow this? -- +- David Given --------McQ-+ "We must go out and utterly crush every other | Work: dg@tao-group.com | worldview that does not believe in tolerance and | Play: dg@cowlark.com | free speech!" --- David Brin, paraphrased +- http://www.cowlark.com -+ ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: C64 / PET floppy disk drive References: <3eo32a.cqa.ln@172.16.100.175> Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 18 Jan 2002 21:59:17 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 18 Jan 2002 22:11:56 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:99195 dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) writes: > So did they have to increase the clock speed to provide enough processing > power to allow this? No. The drive just took longer to do things. Not so much as to be noticable, for instance on the 2031 as opposed to the 4040. The 1540 and 1541, on the other hand, were much slower, but that was due to the serial bus. ###### From: mwmiller@columbus.rr.com (Matthew W. Miller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: C64 / PET floppy disk drive References: <3eo32a.cqa.ln@172.16.100.175> Reply-To: mwmiller@columbus.rr.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.6.2 Linux) Lines: 13 Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 22:05:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.95.86.174 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.columbus.rr.com 1011564334 24.95.86.174 (Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:05:34 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:05:34 EST Organization: Road Runner Columbus Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone.columbus.rr.com!typhoon.columbus.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:99310 On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:07:39 +0000, David Given wrote: >Eric Smith writes: >> There were commands to upload and download memory, and to jump to >> certain specific RAM locations. The addresses of the I/O buffers >> were documented. >Is there anything documented on the web? For certain values of "web", yes. ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm/firmware/drives/ and ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm/documents/disk-drives/ -- Matthew W. Miller -- mwmiller@columbus.rr.com ###### Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 References: <3eo32a.cqa.ln@172.16.100.175> From: dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) Subject: Re: C64 / PET floppy disk drive Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: Lines: 25 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 15:09:42 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.240.131 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1011670202 62.255.240.131 (Tue, 22 Jan 2002 03:30:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 03:30:02 GMT Organization: ntl Business News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!172.16.100.175!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:99576 In article , mwmiller@columbus.rr.com (Matthew W. Miller) writes: > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:07:39 +0000, David Given > wrote: >>Eric Smith writes: >>> There were commands to upload and download memory, and to jump to >>> certain specific RAM locations. The addresses of the I/O buffers >>> were documented. >>Is there anything documented on the web? > > For certain values of "web", yes. > ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm/firmware/drives/ and > ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/cbm/documents/disk-drives/ Ah, cheers. That was what I was looking for. ... Um. I wonder why the processors use completely different memory maps? -- +- David Given --------McQ-+ | Work: dg@tao-group.com | "Pigs have wings, making them hard to catch." | Play: dg@cowlark.com | --- Diana Wynne Jones, _Archer's Goon_ +- http://www.cowlark.com -+ ###### From: Barry OGrady Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: C64 / PET floppy disk drive Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:06:50 +1100 Organization: None Reply-To: billydingo@dingoblue.net.au Message-ID: <4bdt4uod4lhr76lh1p1u31d8g6c3bmklrm@4ax.com> References: <3eo32a.cqa.ln@172.16.100.175> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.142.165.86 X-Trace: 1011791222 17694 198.142.165.86 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!intgwlon.nntp.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!news1.optus.net.au!optus!spool01.syd.optusnet.com.au!spool.optusnet.com.au!210.49.20.118.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:99543 The Tandy model 100 portable computer had an optional external floppy drive that connected to a standard RS232 port and operated at 19,200 bps. The mode 100 was not designed with the floppy drive in mind so it was necessary to type in a one line BASIC program to load the driver from a floppy disk. It has its own OS built in and accepted commands to read and write etc. -Barry ======== Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barryog Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information. Voicemail/fax number +14136227640 ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: C64 / PET floppy disk drive Date: 23 Jan 2002 16:20:19 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <3eo32a.cqa.ln@172.16.100.175> <4bdt4uod4lhr76lh1p1u31d8g6c3bmklrm@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:99438 In article <4bdt4uod4lhr76lh1p1u31d8g6c3bmklrm@4ax.com>, Barry OGrady wrote: >The Tandy model 100 portable computer had an optional external floppy drive >that connected to a standard RS232 port and operated at 19,200 bps. The mode 100 >was not designed with the floppy drive in mind so it was necessary to type in a >one line BASIC program to load the driver from a floppy disk. It has its own OS >built in and accepted commands to read and write etc. I still have one of those in my stuff somewhere, too. My 102 still works and occasionally gets used, but the drive failed forever ago (ejection spring, iirc, and then someone slammed a drawer with the disassmbled drive sticking out.) It got riduculously little on the 3.5" disk--itused standard disks, but I want to say it only stored 50k or so. Eventually, I found a program that let me use an XT as a drive for the 102. hawk -- What part of "non-negotiable" didn't you understand? /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \