Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Moving big, heavy computers (was Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans) References: <9v5uio$gns$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <1bzo3olngj.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 14 Jan 2002 16:50:38 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 40 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 14 Jan 2002 17:02:32 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!news.kjsl.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:98888 wrote: > You should have tried lifting a -10. Been there, done that. Moved two of them. Twice each. One of those moves involved cramming a 2065 temporarily into a small rental storage space that was basically already full. Photos of unloading the truck are at: http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/dec/pdp10/photos/2000.10.22/ "Rupert Pigott" writes: > How does that compare to a fully laden VAX-11/785 ? Done that too. Also two of them. A KL10 is three times as big as an 11/785. However, it comes in three separate cabinets each the size of a single 11/785 (but heavier). That's just the CPU; as with the 11/785, the KL10 normally has additional cabinets containing communications and network gear and other I/O devices. And usually it has more of such things that would be found on an 11/785. > I think > the main CPU cab was quite heavy, but not impossible for 3 > of us to install into a converted pigsty. I once managed to load and unload an 11/785 from a truck with a lift gate, with only one person helping. The 11/785 footprint was basically just inches smaller than the lift gate in both dimensions. But being fairly heavy, it has a tendency to want to roll. Although we miraculously managed to not get killed or maimed, and didn't even damage the 11/785, we did decide that doing this with only two people was very foolhardy and dangerous. > The ones which were really hard were the two SMD drive cabs, > which each had 3x 472Mb Fujitsu Eagle's in em. They were > damn heavy and alarmingly top-heavy. Any sensible person removes such gear from the racks and moves them separately. (Yes, that's another thing I learned the hard way.) ###### Message-ID: <3C4442E9.A21A38B7@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Moving big, heavy computers (was Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans) References: <9v5uio$gns$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <1bzo3olngj.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 56 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:08:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.123.141 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1011107285 168.191.123.141 (Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:08:05 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:08:05 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:07:57 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:98843 Eric Smith wrote: > wrote: > > You should have tried lifting a -10. > > Been there, done that. Moved two of them. Twice each. I had the fun one morning in June or July 1971 of preparing a Univac 1108 for a move to another building. This was at CMU and the move was from the fourth floor of Scaife to the "new" science building (now Wean). When it had been delivered (67) they had cut a hole in the roof and dropped the processor unit and memory cabinet through the hole each in one piece. Not wanting to do this again, it was necessary to disassemble the processor and memory cabinet each into two pieces. Each of these units was a long cabinet, about two thirds of the length was the processor / core memory and the other third in each case the power supplies. On the processor cabinet, the flashing light display covered the top front of the power supply cabinet. I was working as a tech for the CS department as I finished up my degree as a part time student and for some unknown reason I got selected to disassemble the processor cabinet. Now, these two halves were not "plug connected". There were cables which ran between the two halves, terminated on each side IIRC with screw connectors. I specifically recall one which was a bundle of wires from which individual wires left the cable to screw terminals as it crossed the back of the processor. The job consisted of looking at the situation and in each case deciding from which side to disconnect that cable, then doing so and pulling the result into the other cabinet for transport. Of course, one tagged the cables as one did this ;-) While I was doing this others were addressing the memory cabinet, the high speed drums, the tape drives and the Fastrand II. Took me most of the morning. When done I then physically unbolted the two frames and separated them. Each piece was then picked up with a pair of those things which look like a hand truck which a hydraulic lift. You'd put each "truck" on opposite sides of the cabinet, run an included strap around both, jack the strap tight, then with the hydraulics jack up each end (actually pushing down the wheel sets) and you were ready to move. The resulting pieces would fit in the buildings elevator. Why this hadn't been done to originally bring the units into the building I don't know. I was at CMU a couple of years ago and there was a photo display of the original installation, crane and all. Unfortunately, no one took photos of our move. Anyway, all during my efforts, the head Univac CE for the site was worriedly watching. Why he and his staff didn't do this, I don't know, they did do all of the reassembly. Anyway, I had fun that morning ;-) Chris AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ ###### From: artie Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Moving big, heavy computers (was Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:49:25 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <140120021949251047%silli_artie@hotmail.com> References: <9v5uio$gns$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <1bzo3olngj.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Mail-Copies-To: nobody User-Agent: YA-NewsWatcher/5.0.1 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!news.earthlink.net!feed1.onemain.com!news.atl.earthlink.net!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!silli_artie Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:98885 In article , Eric Smith wrote: At the intro of the 11/780 at the (S?)JCC in Anaheim, California in the late 70's, a fork lift operator learned about that "tendency to roll" and *dropped* the main cabinet on to its side -- only about three or four feet, mind you, but on to quite solid concrete. A group of folks were sent back East to strip parts out of one of the other 11/780s while the rest of the people cried. That was the year DEC and a bunch of other people were stuck in a converted parking garage used as exhibit space. Some time was spent late at night by industrious engineers rerouting cooling air coming in from the temporary ductwork. namaste- ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Moving big, heavy computers (was Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:51:51 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <9v5uio$gns$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <1bzo3olngj.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-193-180.btinternet.com X-Trace: knossos.btinternet.com 1011095511 23625 213.122.193.180 (15 Jan 2002 11:51:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:51:51 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:98880 Eric Smith wrote in message news:qhk7uk8mjl.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com... > > The ones which were really hard were the two SMD drive cabs, > > which each had 3x 472Mb Fujitsu Eagle's in em. They were > > damn heavy and alarmingly top-heavy. > > Any sensible person removes such gear from the racks and moves them > separately. (Yes, that's another thing I learned the hard way.) We were exceptionally carefull, but yeah, foolhardy too. The conditions weren't exactly ideal for removing the components anyways. :( Cheers, Rupert ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Moving big, heavy computers (was Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:00:02 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <9v5uio$gns$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <1bzo3olngj.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <140120021949251047%silli_artie@hotmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-193-180.btinternet.com X-Trace: helle.btinternet.com 1011096002 29732 213.122.193.180 (15 Jan 2002 12:00:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:00:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!skynet.be!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-peer1!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:98867 artie wrote in message news:140120021949251047%silli_artie@hotmail.com... [SNIP snip ;)] > At the intro of the 11/780 at the (S?)JCC in Anaheim, California in the > late 70's, a fork lift operator learned about that "tendency to roll" > and *dropped* the main cabinet on to its side -- only about three or > four feet, mind you, but on to quite solid concrete. Apparently the VAX 8600 which sat next to that 11/785 did get dropped around 8 inches at some point in it's life... They gave it a once over powered it up and it still worked. No visible sign of damage... I must admit, given the choice between the 11/785 and the 8600 I'd have taken the 8600, it looked much better built (IMHO), although probably not as easy to work on. Cheers, Rupert ###### From: Alexandre Pechtchanski Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Moving big, heavy computers (was Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans) Organization: Rockefeller University Hospital (GCRC), New York Message-ID: <5g094us6hcqpuktdc2k4ur1h0cceffi1ka@4ax.com> References: <9v5uio$gns$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <1bzo3olngj.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <140120021949251047%silli_artie@hotmail.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 41 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:44:21 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.85.24.56 X-Trace: rockyd.rockefeller.edu 1011123795 129.85.24.56 (Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:43:15 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:43:15 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!rockyd.rockefeller.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:98905 On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:00:02 +0000 (UTC), "Rupert Pigott" wrote: >artie wrote in message >news:140120021949251047%silli_artie@hotmail.com... >[SNIP snip ;)] >> At the intro of the 11/780 at the (S?)JCC in Anaheim, California in the >> late 70's, a fork lift operator learned about that "tendency to roll" >> and *dropped* the main cabinet on to its side -- only about three or >> four feet, mind you, but on to quite solid concrete. > >Apparently the VAX 8600 which sat next to that 11/785 did get dropped >around 8 inches at some point in it's life... They gave it a once over >powered it up and it still worked. No visible sign of damage... Sometime in the end of 1970'es an enterprise I worked for in the xUSSR received its smuggled (actually, bought through some French intermediary for some $200,000 or so) PDP-11/34 (it was on the proscribed list as a munition ;-) The computer was delivered in one big wooden box, which held 2 6' x 19" cabinets with processor, 3 RK-11 disks, paper tape reader and punch, and, of course, power supplies; VT-50, CR-11 card reader, and LP-11 line printer. In other words, big and heavy. This being Russia, the box was manhandled to the third floor by several big guys, who made life easier for themselves by hauling it up one step at a time and dropping it on each of the said steps. Our electronics guys who heard the racket ran out and, seeing the scene, stood speechless. It's just our luck, I guess, that the racket brought out a second-floor neighbor - a floor manager from the enterprise - who shouted at the longshoremen and made them look for quieter solution. This, fortunately, included putting slides on the steps and sliding the box up. After we (with significant trepidation) opened the box, we found, to our amazement, that nothing was broken. Further inspection found one loose cable, after which PDP was switched on and started happily hum along. That was especially amazing to us as just before that the computing center of the enterprise bought an Eastern Block clone of IBM-360. This beast required several weeks long in-place assembly by a big group of Germans, and took a couple of months to bring up to speed. -- [ When replying, remove *'s from address ] Alexandre Pechtchanski, Systems Manager, RUH, NY