From: "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Blinking lights Message-ID: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 8 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:03:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 158.252.42.50 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1008086638 158.252.42.50 (Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:03:58 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:03:58 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:03:49 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96420 For those of you who have seen many different computers: Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? (You see, I am building a new home system, and most case design seem so blah.... ) ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 11 Dec 01 16:19:21 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: <815.745T1093T9794094@sky.bus.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-985.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96263 In article <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> benc@hawaga.org.uk (Ben Clifford) writes: >PC keyboards seem to be getting a lot more lights - the Internet >Keyboard I just bought has 5 lights (caps lock, num lock, scroll lock, >envelope lock and moon lock). All right, don't leave us in suspense. Some of us don't have these fancy new keyboards and we have no idea what you're talking about. Envelope lock? Is that something to do with e-mail security? And moon lock... I could use that when I'm trying to hit a slack tide. Unless it's just a belt to keep my pants from falling down... -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 12 Dec 01 11:33:36 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 30 Message-ID: <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZb52e0vqk8KVzClzSHGE9JaIVgcSyyRO95oUA2yDFXb9+oxnGGlEjz X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Dec 2001 13:37:09 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!209-122-233-171 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96290 In article , mschaef@io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) wrote: >In article <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >>In article , >> "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: >>> >>>For those of you who have seen many different computers: >>> >>>Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ >>>panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? >>> >>>(You see, I am building a new home >>>system, and most case design seem so blah.... ) >> >>I don't give a shit what it looks like as long as it's useful. > >Blinking lights used to be useful, didn't they? I guess it'd be more >of a challenge to implement old style lights/switches on a 1GHz chip >though. If I had read/write lights on my disk, I'd be able to tell exactly when Misoft is trying to fuck me over and I could hit the power button. I have a similar failsafe procedure with the modem. It has lights and, when it's indicating that something is read/writing when I know I'm not sending requests, I also hit the power button to that device. I've caught AOL sniffing my bits a couple of times. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 12 Dec 01 11:34:52 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <9v7mkh$7n0$4@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVb08Q5UYhRpVW9UuxOPkcTihUH2IN46Z+WP/+hA5R0GmcovS6frHmL1 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Dec 2001 13:38:25 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!209-122-233-171 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96302 In article <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk>, Ben Clifford wrote: >"MSCHAEF.COM" wrote: > >> >> Blinking lights used to be useful, didn't they? I guess it'd be more >> of a challenge to implement old style lights/switches on a 1GHz chip >> though. > >PC keyboards seem to be getting a lot more lights - the Internet >Keyboard I just bought has 5 lights (caps lock, num lock, scroll lock, >envelope lock and moon lock). I give up. I can't figure out why you need a lock when you're mooning. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Tue, 11 Dec 01 14:05:09 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 17 Message-ID: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYjKHLGxFHsB2nYd4jwWSD3URZl6cU/DbLTLCZfq9zKUGoe/xG6ZCEo X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Dec 2001 16:08:30 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!216-164-247-51 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96303 In article , "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: > >For those of you who have seen many different computers: > >Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ >panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? > >(You see, I am building a new home >system, and most case design seem so blah.... ) I don't give a shit what it looks like as long as it's useful. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: mschaef_ng@mschaef.com Organization: mschaef.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) From: mschaef@io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Originator: mschaef@io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) Lines: 23 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:46:29 CST X-Trace: sv3-YNARb37r5OPLZujnakpz6Cs/VqMa6eZKeFpgKzgm2OA2nwgbR2GzJKLlrzMDLcMoabVbU9/bkB2+FFb!S3k8ObZetWcgSIwH2S+StqeeEJPXuHku3ND3qPC8MtyKHDPW7FrHWKBRGaevSWbuFM+dt4Ue712j!5V+ZlDsrOH8BPfmTT9XX X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:46:29 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.online.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!newsxfer.visi.net!news-xfer.siscom.net!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96239 In article <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >In article , > "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: >> >>For those of you who have seen many different computers: >> >>Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ >>panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? >> >>(You see, I am building a new home >>system, and most case design seem so blah.... ) > >I don't give a shit what it looks like as long as it's useful. Blinking lights used to be useful, didn't they? I guess it'd be more of a challenge to implement old style lights/switches on a 1GHz chip though. -Mike -- http://www.mschaef.com ###### From: jraben@cascinc.com (Jeff Raben) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:02:19 GMT Reply-To: jraben@cascinc.com Message-ID: <3c163b7c.1977683@news.bullseyetelecom.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.29.33.242 X-Trace: 11 Dec 2001 12:02:31 -0500, 216.29.33.242 Organization: NetSet Internet Services, Inc. Lines: 34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!athena.netset.com!216.29.33.242 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96374 sorry no pictures but RCA BIZMAC (late '50s - early 60's) with tape configuration console and RCA 501. both real spaceship consoles. Jeff mschaef@io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) wrote: >In article <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >>In article , >> "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: >>> >>>For those of you who have seen many different computers: >>> >>>Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ >>>panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? >>> >>>(You see, I am building a new home >>>system, and most case design seem so blah.... ) >> >>I don't give a shit what it looks like as long as it's useful. > >Blinking lights used to be useful, didn't they? I guess it'd be more >of a challenge to implement old style lights/switches on a 1GHz chip >though. > >-Mike > > >-- >http://www.mschaef.com and stir with a Runcible spoon... ###### From: "Daniel House" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3c163b7c.1977683@news.bullseyetelecom.net> Subject: Re: Blinking lights Lines: 44 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:04:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.88.253.49 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.southeast.rr.com 1008090270 24.88.253.49 (Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:04:30 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:04:30 EST Organization: Road Runner - NC Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!typhoon.southeast.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96236 My personal favorite is the IBM SSEC from 1948. Pictures at http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/ssec.html The console was preserved and its lights still blink today. "Jeff Raben" wrote in message news:3c163b7c.1977683@news.bullseyetelecom.net... > sorry no pictures but RCA BIZMAC (late '50s - early 60's) with tape > configuration console > and RCA 501. both real spaceship consoles. > > Jeff > > > mschaef@io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) wrote: > > >In article <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: > >>In article , > >> "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: > >>> > >>>For those of you who have seen many different computers: > >>> > >>>Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ > >>>panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? > >>> > >>>(You see, I am building a new home > >>>system, and most case design seem so blah.... ) > >> > >>I don't give a shit what it looks like as long as it's useful. > > > >Blinking lights used to be useful, didn't they? I guess it'd be more > >of a challenge to implement old style lights/switches on a 1GHz chip > >though. > > > >-Mike > > > > > >-- > >http://www.mschaef.com > > and stir with a Runcible spoon... ###### Message-ID: <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> From: Ben Clifford Organization: HAWAGA.ORG.UK X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 X-Trace: /w5MH7SS8NJaWtkc+Al+eCeFmDNwC6ojOyo+rEfsjymL3CEAu4+/egukIvLw5Doox8snSNBFqewL!Q/mVJLNJ7ZihdT2nUiUvKcvtyWytpxKbA+A9hswpI6RsPsW6B7vbVoQ+p4fKlc5R4uQ= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:49:08 GMT Distribution: world Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:49:08 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96267 "MSCHAEF.COM" wrote: > > Blinking lights used to be useful, didn't they? I guess it'd be more > of a challenge to implement old style lights/switches on a 1GHz chip > though. PC keyboards seem to be getting a lot more lights - the Internet Keyboard I just bought has 5 lights (caps lock, num lock, scroll lock, envelope lock and moon lock). -- Ben Clifford benc@hawaga.org.uk http://www.hawaga.org.uk/ben/ GPG: 30F06950 ###### From: "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 02:08:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.60.72 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1008122888 168.191.60.72 (Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:08:08 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:08:08 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:08:11 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96359 On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:35:29 GMT, javnews@earthlink.net (John Varela) wrote: >On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:03:58, "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" > wrote: > >> Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ >> panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? > >http://www.togger.com/photos/_photos.shtml wowers! thank you very much! ###### From: "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 02:38:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.60.72 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1008124737 168.191.60.72 (Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:38:57 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:38:57 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:38:59 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96416 On Tue, 11 Dec 01 14:05:09 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >In article , > "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: >> >>For those of you who have seen many different computers: >> >>Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ >>panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? >> >>(You see, I am building a new home >>system, and most case design seem so blah.... ) > >I don't give a shit what it looks like as long as it's useful. I do have exceptionally tidy workroom. I don't know whether it's guy thing to do or not, but I do pay much attention to interior deco of my house. Useful things doesn't have to be ugly. > >/BAH > > >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jrlatala@shell.golden.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site Lines: 13 Message-ID: <9v6td1$6kr$1@shell.golden.net> References: Date: 12 Dec 2001 01:27:45 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.166.210.115 X-Complaints-To: abuse@golden.net X-Trace: radon.golden.net 1008138467 199.166.210.115 (Wed, 12 Dec 2001 01:27:47 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 01:27:47 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsin.iconnet.net!feed.tor.primus.ca!feed.nntp.primus.ca!newsfeed.torontointernetxchange.net!radon.golden.net!shell.golden.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96316 In article , oh gr\"eight\" \"one\" wrote: > >Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ >panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? The one on the Seaview. I think that's the name of the sub on "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea". I always wondered why they didn't make it spell out things like a lo-res LED display. -- john R. Latala jrlatala@golden.net ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights From: jim@magrathea.plus.com (James Campbell Andrew) Message-ID: <1f4ajnd.yx1gla12ud5dsN%jim@magrathea.plus.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> Organization: None Approved: Culture ROU Killing Time User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4.5 Lines: 14 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:05:47 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.159.41.76 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plus.net.uk X-Trace: stones 1008140796 212.159.41.76 (Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:06:36 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:06:36 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!skynet.be!skynet.be!landlord!stones.POSTED!jim Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96242 oh gr"eight" "one" wrote: > Useful things doesn't have to be ugly A philosophy that Apple took to their heart *long* ago. I agree, bring back blinkenlights! I prefer usefull to fun any day, but I'll take both if I can. Jim -- jim@magrathea.plus.com -*- GreyArea@mac.com "We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons ###### X-Posting-Agent: Hamster/1.3.23.4 From: Nick Spalding Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Reply-To: spalding@iol.ie Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.555 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:04:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.203.145.152 X-Complaints-To: abuse@iol.ie X-Trace: news.iol.ie 1008147843 193.203.145.152 (Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:04:03 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:04:03 GMT Organization: Ireland On-Line Customer Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.esat.net!news.iol.ie!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96389 oh gr"eight" "one" wrote, in : > > For those of you who have seen many different computers: > > Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ > panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? > > (You see, I am building a new home > system, and most case design seem so blah.... ) Not particularly awesome but I have fond memories of the data-flow diagram panels of the 1401 and it's descendants. -- Nick Spalding ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 12 Dec 2001 15:40:59 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 32 Message-ID: <6uwuzsa4ck.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1008168059 609 10.0.3.2 (12 Dec 2001 14:40:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Dec 2001 14:40:59 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96422 mschaef@io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) writes: > In article <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: > >In article , > > "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: > >> > >>(You see, I am building a new home > >>system, and most case design seem so blah.... ) > > > >I don't give a shit what it looks like as long as it's useful. > > Blinking lights used to be useful, didn't they? Yes. They gave a feeling for what is going on inside. Semi-lit is activity. Varying is changing activity. None/Full is no action. > I guess it'd be more > of a challenge to implement old style lights/switches on a 1GHz chip > though. Instead of many cables carrying 1GHz have chip-internally an Mux that scanns the interesting points and then seed that out over an serial line to an de-Mux on the display board. Same trick as used in video displays. 100Hz refrash (more humans can not see) * no of LEDs gives 10s of kHz. Harmless. And only a few pins. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 12 Dec 01 12:18:17 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 31 Message-ID: <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-611.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96433 In article <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com (jmfbahciv) writes: >If I had read/write lights on my disk, I'd be able to tell exactly >when Misoft is trying to fuck me over and I could hit the power >button. Better still, if you had a write-protect switch like the old drives did, you could protect the drive when you don't expect to be writing to it. >I have a similar failsafe procedure with the modem. It has lights >and, when it's indicating that something is read/writing when I know >I'm not sending requests, I also hit the power button to that device. >I've caught AOL sniffing my bits a couple of times. I go one step further. I have a Windoze box which I use for compiles and testing, and it shares a modem with my Amiga via a mechanical switch. This switch stays firmly on the Amiga side at all times except when I'm actually using the modem on the Win98 box (for PC-Anywhere access to customer sites, never the Internet itself). Ever since I heard someone report that his box was dialing out when he wasn't sitting in front of it, I've felt that you can't be too careful. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:50:38 +0100 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 16 Message-ID: <20011212075038.25bcc308.steveo@eircom.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> <815.745T1093T9794094@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p526.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 1008180007 1749 194.134.201.90 (12 Dec 2001 18:00:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:00:07 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.6.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!193.190.198.17.MISMATCH!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cleanfeed.casema.net!leda.casema.net!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96490 On 11 Dec 01 16:19:21 -0800 "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: CG> And moon lock... I could use that when I'm trying to hit a slack CG> tide. Unless it's just a belt to keep my pants from falling down... That last was my first thought too :) I think it is a 'suspended' light which burns to show that you are saving energy :) -- C:>WIN | Directable Mirrors The computer obeys and wins. |A Better Way To Focus The Sun You lose and Bill collects. | licenses available - see: | http://www.sohara.org/ ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:56:55 +0100 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 16 Message-ID: <20011212075655.0b5630ed.steveo@eircom.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p526.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 1008180008 1749 194.134.201.90 (12 Dec 2001 18:00:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:00:08 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.6.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!193.190.198.17.MISMATCH!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cleanfeed.casema.net!leda.casema.net!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96491 On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 02:38:57 GMT "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: OG> I do have exceptionally tidy workroom. I don't know OG> whether it's guy thing to do or not, but I do pay Mess Male Nope - I don't think this is a gender linked thing. -- C:>WIN | Directable Mirrors The computer obeys and wins. |A Better Way To Focus The Sun You lose and Bill collects. | licenses available - see: | http://www.sohara.org/ ###### From: Tony Miller Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:03:41 -0500 Organization: VTLS Inc Lines: 29 Message-ID: <3C1763BD.BB7C004C@vtls.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: millert.vtls.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: solaris.cc.vt.edu 1008165822 8639 198.17.62.28 (12 Dec 2001 14:03:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@vt.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:03:42 +0000 (UTC) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.19-6.3mdk i686) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96537 oh gr\"eight\" \"one\" wrote: > > For those of you who have seen many different computers: > > Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ > panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? > > (You see, I am building a new home > system, and most case design seem so blah.... ) Well, if you want to spiffy up your current machine, try this: http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/computing/pc-mods.shtml Or, for something more along the line of blinkenlights... http://www.pcmods.com/list.asp?CtgID=47 Especially these options: http://www.pcmods.com/details.asp?ProdID=261 http://www.pcmods.com/details.asp?ProdID=217 -- Tony Miller VTLS Multimedia Department, Gateway Development Section 540-557-1201, ext 3328 <=> millert@vtls.com "We'll do the undoable, work the unworkable, scrute the inscrutable and have a long, hard look at the ineffable to see whether it might not be effed after all" ###### From: jsavard@ecn.aSBLOKb.caNADA.invalid (John Savard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Message-ID: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 26 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:52:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.109.100.252 X-Complaints-To: abuse@powersurfr.com X-Trace: news-rep.ab.videon.ca 1008168730 24.109.100.252 (Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:52:10 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:52:10 MST Organization: Videon CableSystems Alberta Inc. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!cy1!cy2!newsfeed.shawcable.com!news-rep.ab.videon.ca!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96486 On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 02:08:08 GMT, "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote, in part: >On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:35:29 GMT, javnews@earthlink.net (John Varela) >wrote: > >>On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:03:58, "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" >> wrote: >> >>> Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ >>> panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? >> >>http://www.togger.com/photos/_photos.shtml > >wowers! thank you very much! Two others with impressive front panels are the STRETCH: http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/ibm/stretch/ and the 360/195 (and also the 360/95). (There _was_ a picture somewhere out there, but I can't find it now.) John Savard http://plaza.powersurfr.com/jsavard/index.html ###### From: Edward Franks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:17:52 -0600 Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access - http://www.altopia.com Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96481 My glass typewriter shows Ben Clifford, pondering... [Snip] > PC keyboards seem to be getting a lot more lights - the Internet > Keyboard I just bought has 5 lights (caps lock, num lock, scroll lock, > envelope lock and moon lock). Email light and suspend/hibernate mode? -- Edward Franks ###### Message-ID: <3C17897B.97582CEF@hawaga.org.uk> From: Ben Clifford Organization: HAWAGA.ORG.UK X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> <815.745T1093T9794094@sky.bus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 36 X-Trace: /bCCZDDfVU70aCjf/ahUwPLj6SnaojOaDFA+DgjITkrTwG6siUretzUmJYgMgFjY/WlsLv52f1YP!Czz2t1iV12LwrNUmv8l+60Uy0btKbov1lfKcEhcifxUoedi02/Q6lNKmp6gPNY/dc3Y= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:44:45 GMT Distribution: world Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:44:45 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!131.119.28.146!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96435 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > All right, don't leave us in suspense. Some of us don't have these > fancy new keyboards and we have no idea what you're talking about. > Envelope lock? Is that something to do with e-mail security? I think Edward Franks posting has the most likely explanation. However, I have not worked out how to make them illuminate. [1] There is a moon button and an envelope button, but pushing them doesn't make the lights change (I'm not even really sure what is getting sent to the PC at all when I push these (or any of the 16 other extra keys [3])). Someone notified me by e-mail after I posted this that a Wang 'Professional Workstation' will give me 12 keyboard LEDs - I can't compete with that. [1]Apart from: install Windows XP. [2] [2] Something that made me laugh out loud the other day, I purchased this PC from CompUSA. When I had installed Linux, I couldn't get it to play music CDs. When I went back to CompUSA, the technicians suggested solution was that all I need to do was install WindowsXP. (my emphasis). Gee, a minor tweak like that, why didn't I think of it? [3] ObAFC: This is extra, in addition to other set of keys that make it up to a 102 key board from a 83 keyboard. -- Ben Clifford benc@hawaga.org.uk http://www.hawaga.org.uk/ben/ GPG: 30F06950 ###### Message-ID: <3C178BB5.BC3655C7@hawaga.org.uk> From: Ben Clifford Organization: HAWAGA.ORG.UK X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 X-Trace: /whjskj60YtygeVuFovMCa6kC5gKLQi4zMF0mNtvM525UpBSKEA9wIh9euunTJJzvbyoB9Jwps1I!QLWJzpVc1WmFHZzxnN1J/IBd/DNJuMVec5WJg4LKEp04U9MBc8OiyU+cr36z5HWBTUU= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:54:14 GMT Distribution: world Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:54:14 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96434 John Varela wrote: > http://www.togger.com/photos/_photos.shtml I see that "each console had a built-in cigarette lighter". What other wierd peripherals / peripheral features have people come accross? -- Ben Clifford benc@hawaga.org.uk http://www.hawaga.org.uk/ben/ GPG: 30F06950 ###### From: Dave Daniels Subject: Re: Blinking lights Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:09:44 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <4ae7d86517dave_daniels@argonet.co.uk> References: <3C178BB5.BC3655C7@hawaga.org.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.03) Organization: None Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: userbi67.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: 1008186013 news.dial.pipex.com 8511 62.188.143.131 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.interpacket.net!lnewspeer01.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewsifeed03.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96506 In article <3C178BB5.BC3655C7@hawaga.org.uk>, Ben Clifford wrote: > What other wierd peripherals / peripheral features have people come > accross? Pizza oven and a sink (that is, a sink as in what you wash the dishes in). These were two of the things built into one of Acorn's demonstration RiscPCs during the mid 1990s. Dave Daniels ###### From: Edward Franks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:30:33 -0600 Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access - http://www.altopia.com Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> <815.745T1093T9794094@sky.bus.com> <3C17897B.97582CEF@hawaga.org.uk> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!easynews!news.alt.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96485 My glass typewriter shows Ben Clifford, pondering... [Snip] > I think Edward Franks posting has the most > likely explanation. Having pressed the hibernate mode button more than once by accident, I was pretty sure that the moon button, aka sleepy time for your PC, was the suspend button. It is rather embarrassing to do that when you are trying to fix a problem with your mother's PC. :-D Give me an IBM PS/2 clickity-clack keyboard any day. [Snip] > [2] Something that made me laugh out loud the other day, I purchased > this PC from CompUSA. When I had installed Linux, I couldn't get it to > play music CDs. When I went back to > CompUSA, the technicians suggested solution was that all I need to do > was install WindowsXP. (my emphasis). Gee, a minor tweak like that, why > didn't I think of it? :chuckle: They must have meant Linux --> VMWare --> WindowsXP. -- Edward Franks ###### From: johnf@panix.com (John Francis) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 12 Dec 2001 14:37:08 -0500 Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp. Lines: 10 Message-ID: <9v8bl4$8qe$1@panix2.panix.com> References: <3C178BB5.BC3655C7@hawaga.org.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 1008185828 3610 166.84.1.2 (12 Dec 2001 19:37:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Dec 2001 19:37:08 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!news.panix.com!panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96449 In article <3C178BB5.BC3655C7@hawaga.org.uk>, Ben Clifford wrote: >John Varela wrote: > >> http://www.togger.com/photos/_photos.shtml > >I see that "each console had a built-in cigarette lighter". Hmm. Mind you, the DECsystem-10 consoles in the Marlboro(sic) machine room did have ashtrays stuck onto them ... ###### Message-ID: <3C17B9C3.B9DCDD8E@hawaga.org.uk> From: Ben Clifford Organization: HAWAGA.ORG.UK X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> <815.745T1093T9794094@sky.bus.com> <3C17897B.97582CEF@hawaga.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 X-Trace: /w3Za7erLyFYtteHH2ggdh0A/7Bxbz9s+qz7PO+mQMR8L6rCL6Cr02jlsu5g96MvvCel1pLZf2dB!NCIhJfr+8fBzgKqt55EF/R1oGu+QonEfcxrCSSHHHoShxr3RLYqPy91EXlgytu/Wjc0= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:10:43 GMT Distribution: world Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:10:43 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!feedwest.news.agis.net!aleron.net!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96444 > Having pressed the hibernate mode button more than once by > accident, I was pretty sure that the moon button, aka sleepy time for > your PC, was the suspend button. It is rather embarrassing to do that > when you are trying to fix a problem with your mother's PC. :-D I have done that sufficiently often with the Ctrl-Alt-Delete key combination to cause me to disable it. Quite how I managed to press those three keys by accident, I don't know. I think perhaps it was something that needed a Ctrl-Alt-something keypress and I was so used to pressing delete after those two that I always did it, whether I wanted to or not. -- Ben Clifford benc@hawaga.org.uk http://www.hawaga.org.uk/ben/ GPG: 30F06950 ###### Message-ID: <3C17F34E.EB21EE95@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 41 NNTP-Posting-Host: eDQR7-249570-ER5-463509@rwcrnsc52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc52 1008195596 eDQR7-249570-ER5-463509@rwcrnsc52 (Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:19:56 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:19:56 GMT Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:19:56 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.204!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!rwcrnsc52.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96534 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article , > mschaef@io.com (MSCHAEF.COM) wrote: > >In article <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: > >>In article , > >> "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: > >>> > >>>For those of you who have seen many different computers: > >>> > >>>Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ > >>>panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? > >>> > >>>(You see, I am building a new home > >>>system, and most case design seem so blah.... ) > >> > >>I don't give a shit what it looks like as long as it's useful. > > > >Blinking lights used to be useful, didn't they? I guess it'd be more > >of a challenge to implement old style lights/switches on a 1GHz chip > >though. > > If I had read/write lights on my disk, I'd be able to tell exactly > when Misoft is trying to fuck me over and I could hit the power > button. I have a similar failsafe procedure with the modem. It > has lights and, when it's indicating that something is read/writing > when I know I'm not sending requests, I also hit the power button > to that device. I've caught AOL sniffing my bits a couple of times. > You also need send and receive lights on your modem...because Mi$uck is sending information back to Redmond about your system when you are *not* actively using the internet. This is one big reason why my Mac is a Mi$uck-free zone...I know enough *not* to trust Mi$uck at all. All you people who are bitten by Mi$uck and you are destroyed...just remember, you *knew* they were a snake when you took them in!!! -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Host: ivQR7-110067-7y-150951@rwcrnsc54 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc54 1008195715 ivQR7-110067-7y-150951@rwcrnsc54 (Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:21:55 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:21:55 GMT Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:21:55 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!wn1feed!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.204!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!rwcrnsc54.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96526 John Savard wrote: > > On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 02:08:08 GMT, "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" > wrote, in part: > > >On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:35:29 GMT, javnews@earthlink.net (John Varela) > >wrote: > > > >>On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:03:58, "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ > >>> panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? > >> > >>http://www.togger.com/photos/_photos.shtml > > > >wowers! thank you very much! > > Two others with impressive front panels are the STRETCH: > Was the Stretch computer the one that is *almost* as fast as a CDC-6600??? You know, "including the janitor" and all that... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3C17F418.14A05948@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <3C178BB5.BC3655C7@hawaga.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: MEQR7-110344-7y-151318@rwcrnsc54 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc54 1008195799 MEQR7-110344-7y-151318@rwcrnsc54 (Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:23:19 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:23:19 GMT Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:23:19 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!rockie.attcanada.net!newsfeed.attcanada.net!204.127.161.4!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.204!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!rwcrnsc54.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96528 Ben Clifford wrote: > > John Varela wrote: > > > http://www.togger.com/photos/_photos.shtml > > I see that "each console had a built-in cigarette lighter". > > What other wierd peripherals / peripheral features have people come > accross? > Well, there is the automatic coffee cup holder that pops out of your computer when you push the button...some call it the CD drive... (;-)) -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: ic0cdfw00@ic24.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 01:13:54 +0000 Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <6uwuzsa4ck.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Reply-To: tony.lenton@physics.org NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-64-229-253.friaco.access.uk.tiscali.com (62.64.229.253) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1008206029 14587010 62.64.229.253 (16 [88156]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!ppp-64-229-253.friaco.access.uk.tiscali.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96511 On 12 Dec 2001 15:40:59 +0100, Neil Franklin wrote: >Instead of many cables carrying 1GHz have chip-internally an Mux that >scanns the interesting points and then seed that out over an serial >line to an de-Mux on the display board. Same trick as used in video >displays. 100Hz refrash (more humans can not see) * no of LEDs gives >10s of kHz. Harmless. And only a few pins. Hmm sounds very much like of the IBM 370/155 and 370/158. -- aml ###### From: Marco S Hyman Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 12 Dec 2001 17:59:12 -0800 Organization: S.N.A.F.U. -- http://www.snafu.org/ Lines: 9 Sender: marc@hana.snafu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: hana.snafu.org (64.174.80.154) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1008209826 14185940 64.174.80.154 (16 [97260]) X-Orig-Path: hana.snafu.org!nobody X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!130.133.1.3!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!hana.snafu.ORG!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96466 "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" writes: > Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ > panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? http://homepages.enterprise.net/scruss/GroovyComputers.html has some pics ca 1975. // marc ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:40:53 -0500 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-608.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Mail-Copies-To: nobody Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!209.155.233.16!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96522 In article <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com>, "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: > Better still, if you had a write-protect switch like the old drives > did, you could protect the drive when you don't expect to be writing > to it. Could do it. Every drive I've seen has a jumper to make it r/o. Put a switch on that and there ya go. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" Golf vs Bug: VW has been cutting corners ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 12 Dec 2001 20:24:34 -0700 Organization: New Mexico State University Lines: 11 Message-ID: <1bu1uvztsd.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 1008213872 5991 128.123.64.113 (13 Dec 2001 03:24:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 03:24:32 GMT User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!137.192.6.2!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96452 Howard S Shubs writes: > > Could do it. Every drive I've seen has a jumper to make it r/o. Put a switch > on that and there ya go. I can't remember seeing a read-only jumper on IDE drives... -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <3C178BB5.BC3655C7@hawaga.org.uk> <3C17F418.14A05948@ev1.net> From: Bernd Felsche User-Agent: nn/6.6.2 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:07:40 +0800 Message-ID: Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: innovative.iinet.net.au X-Trace: news.iinet.net.au 1008216569 8017 203.59.144.24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator-la!news-in-la.newsfeeds.com!news-in.superfeed.net!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news.xtra.co.nz!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.per.connect.com.au!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!news.iinet.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96515 Charles Richmond writes: >Ben Clifford wrote: >> John Varela wrote: >> >> > http://www.togger.com/photos/_photos.shtml >> >> I see that "each console had a built-in cigarette lighter". >> >> What other wierd peripherals / peripheral features have people come >> accross? >Well, there is the automatic coffee cup holder that pops out of >your computer when you push the button...some call it the >CD drive... (;-)) Wrong! It's the Coffee Dispenser _tray_ that pops out. They are in general however, poorly designed and a properly filled mug (0.5 litres+) usually results in a warranty claim. ###### From: Edward Franks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:39:25 -0600 Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access - http://www.altopia.com Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C17F34E.EB21EE95@ev1.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96480 My glass typewriter shows Charles Richmond, pondering... [Snip] > All you people who are bitten by Mi$uck and you are destroyed...just > remember, you *knew* they were a snake when you took them in!!! MSDN ;-) -- Edward Franks ###### From: jsavard@ecn.aSBLOKb.caNADA.invalid (John Savard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Message-ID: <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 12 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 04:54:04 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.109.100.252 X-Complaints-To: abuse@powersurfr.com X-Trace: news-rep.ab.videon.ca 1008219204 24.109.100.252 (Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:53:24 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:53:24 MST Organization: Videon CableSystems Alberta Inc. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!cy1!cy2!newsfeed.shawcable.com!news-rep.ab.videon.ca!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96475 On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:21:55 GMT, Charles Richmond wrote, in part: >Was the Stretch computer the one that is *almost* as fast as >a CDC-6600??? You know, "including the janitor" and all that... Yes, and I recall the quote - about how they make faster computers than IBM, even though the number of people in the company, *including the janitor* is so much smaller. John Savard http://plaza.powersurfr.com/jsavard/index.html ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 13 Dec 2001 05:13:23 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 17 Message-ID: <9v9ddj$2go$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1008220403 2584 134.117.136.30 (13 Dec 2001 05:13:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 05:13:23 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96476 "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" (ohgr81@earthlink.net) writes: > For those of you who have seen many different computers: > > Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ > panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? The Connection Machine pictured in Scientific American some years ago looked very elegant and blinky. > > (You see, I am building a new home > system, and most case design seem so blah.... ) Why not start a home business at the same time. Racks and racks of modems (with blinken lights, fronted by smoked acrylic doors) and you too could become an ISP. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 13 Dec 2001 05:23:02 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 12 Message-ID: <9v9dvm$3cu$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1008220982 3486 134.117.136.30 (13 Dec 2001 05:23:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 05:23:02 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96478 "Charlie Gibbs" (cgibbs@sky.bus.com) writes: > > Better still, if you had a write-protect switch like the old drives > did, you could protect the drive when you don't expect to be writing > to it. Tuesday I installed AOL Canada's version 3 appliance on a 486 system running W3.11 - seemed to go OK. Tried to signoff from AOL, and suddenly this shitload of M$ IE starts downloading WITHOUT any permission on my part. The machine was wrapped up with this tail end processing for at least an hour, because I was too chicken to halt it, (in case I had to restart the whole shebang). Someone(s) need a kick in the head. ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:32:44 -0000 Organization: BT Internet Lines: 31 Message-ID: <9v9gan$263$1@uranium.btinternet.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C17F34E.EB21EE95@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-204-145.btinternet.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96500 Charles Richmond wrote in message news:3C17F34E.EB21EE95@ev1.net... > You also need send and receive lights on your modem...because Mi$uck > is sending information back to Redmond about your system when you are > *not* actively using the internet. This is one big reason why my Hmm dunno about that. I did actually black-hole route microsoft domains using my OpenBSD internet gateway. Certainly caused me much amusment. :) > Mac is a Mi$uck-free zone...I know enough *not* to trust Mi$uck at all. > > All you people who are bitten by Mi$uck and you are destroyed...just > remember, you *knew* they were a snake when you took them in!!! Err, ever tried the "Windows Update" thing ? It's really funny, they say that it doesn't send back info about your machine & software on it... Hmm, so why did it redirect me to a CGI page (oh sorry Bill, I meant ASP, please don't hurt me) which pretty much described my machine set up ? My guess is that it's weasel words, sure, it doesn't send back info about your machine, just sends back info about what it's not perhaps. ;) I'm not as paranoid about it as I was. I'm sure Bill has a franchise with St.Peter and will ensure that I go to hell for running 2 machines with one Win98 CD, but he can go swivel quite frankly. Any time he wants to make reparations for the amount of my life I've wasted working around flaws in his products we'll talk. :) Cheers, Rupert ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:59:39 -0000 Organization: BT Internet Lines: 45 Message-ID: <9v9gap$263$2@uranium.btinternet.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C17F34E.EB21EE95@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-204-145.btinternet.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96502 Charles Richmond wrote in message news:3C17F34E.EB21EE95@ev1.net... > All you people who are bitten by Mi$uck and you are destroyed...just > remember, you *knew* they were a snake when you took them in!!! Actually come to think of it, there are big rumblings about anti piracy and how Microsoft is leading the crusade against evil terrorist software pirates (how noble of them). There are two reasons that I can think of for the existance for Billwarez : 1) Some people can't afford the RRP for Billwarez, and the world has succumbed to Billz 1337z0rz vendor lock-in skillz. 2) Very poor customer satisfaction. I buy an OpenBSD CD every 6 months (quite often I buy a T-Shirt with that too). At 20UKP a pop that means that I spend around 40UKP every year. Let's be generous and say that Windows averages out at around 50UKP a year for upgrades... It's not much different and yet I get acute wallet cramps. This isn't a Bill Gates is evil reaction, this is an instinctive "That's really shitty value for money" reaction. This led me to thinking that perhaps Bill and his legions of d0rkn355 should change their business model, to something like the OpenBSD one. Where you provide the OS free via the Net, but provide CDs and T-Shirts... Then I thought, nah, this can't work, Billwarez sport very poor customer satisfaction figures. I doubt that you'd get the big corporations falling over themselves to sponsor development either. Certainly would be interesting to see what happened if BillG said "OK, the good news is : Windows is for Free, the bad news is : Some suckers are gonna have to sponsor development". Maybe they would get away with it because of Billz 1337 vendor lock-in skillz. All anti-piracy will do is drive all those people towards alternatives, probably 'free' alternatives. Actually BillyG just ignore this post and crush the pirates under your jackbooted legions of d0rkn355. GRIND THEM INTO THE DUST !!! DO NOT REST UNTIL EVERY CENT HAS BEEN WRUNG FROM THEIR WALLETS !!! This is the end of the Party Political Broadcast. Cheers, Rupert ###### Message-ID: <3C1864A7.C4FDCA0D@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:52:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.167.191 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1008233543 12.90.167.191 (Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:52:23 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:52:23 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!rockie.attcanada.net!newsfeed.attcanada.net!204.127.161.4!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96426 Howard S Shubs wrote: > > In article <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com>, > "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: > > > Better still, if you had a write-protect switch like the old drives > > did, you could protect the drive when you don't expect to be writing > > to it. > > Could do it. Every drive I've seen has a jumper to make it r/o. Put a switch > on that and there ya go. IDE drives? Where is it? -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 13 Dec 01 09:11:37 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 47 Message-ID: <2033.747T1878T5515655@sky.bus.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com> <9v9dvm$3cu$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <9vacc1$fg9$7@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-700.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96545 In article <9vacc1$fg9$7@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com (jmfbahciv) writes: >In article <9v9dvm$3cu$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>, >ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) wrote: > >>"Charlie Gibbs" (cgibbs@sky.bus.com) writes: >>> >>> Better still, if you had a write-protect switch like the old drives >>> did, you could protect the drive when you don't expect to be writing >>> to it. >> >> Tuesday I installed AOL Canada's version 3 appliance on a 486 system >> running W3.11 - seemed to go OK. Tried to signoff from AOL, and >> suddenly this shitload of M$ IE starts downloading WITHOUT any >> permission on my part. The machine was wrapped up with this tail >> end processing for at least an hour, because I was too chicken to >> halt it, (in case I had to restart the whole shebang). Heck, I'd have hit the modem's power switch the instant the shenanigans started. That's one of the reasons I use external modems. Failing that, I'd hit the computer's reset button, and damn the consequences. I have to do that often enough on my Win98 box, so I don't see it as any big thing. (Neither does Microsoft, apparently, given how often people re-boot, re-install, or re-format their systems.) >That was a feature of Version 3. > >> .. Someone(s) need a kick in the head. > >Why do you think I'm still using V2.5? It drives them crazy >(both tech support and software sniffing). >Of course, they're slowly changing all format standards. Soon >I won't be able to access AOL for the few aspects I do use. Good, then you can switch over to a real ISP and a real newsreader. I might even suggest a real OS, but if you can't can't bear the thought of switching to Linux you should at least check out Free Agent, which I hear is a pretty tolerable newsreader if you're stuck with Windoze. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 01 10:32:38 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <9va7c4$33p$7@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3C178BB5.BC3655C7@hawaga.org.uk> <9v8bl4$8qe$1@panix2.panix.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZzL1iHrUyD9Ir0Lhlj1qnWupOE8ktvVgCMfkZAHOZiyfpbBWtty62J X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 12:36:20 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-228 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96550 In article <9v8bl4$8qe$1@panix2.panix.com>, johnf@panix.com (John Francis) wrote: >In article <3C178BB5.BC3655C7@hawaga.org.uk>, >Ben Clifford wrote: >>John Varela wrote: >> >>> http://www.togger.com/photos/_photos.shtml >> >>I see that "each console had a built-in cigarette lighter". > >Hmm. Mind you, the DECsystem-10 consoles in the Marlboro(sic) >machine room did have ashtrays stuck onto them ... Nope. Ashtrays weren't stuck on the consoles. They were mountable. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 01 10:24:38 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 30 Message-ID: <9va6t5$33p$6@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <20011212075655.0b5630ed.steveo@eircom.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVawXYmxBH9Y8gjptusPO5VmQo5QrIy4mjb092YjakHonC9W4c5JNXW6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 12:28:21 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-228 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96555 In article <20011212075655.0b5630ed.steveo@eircom.net>, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 02:38:57 GMT >"oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: > >OG> I do have exceptionally tidy workroom. I don't know >OG> whether it's guy thing to do or not, but I do pay > >Mess >Male I've never heard that description. I like it. I guess my peripherals are internal? > >Nope - I don't think this is a gender linked thing. > I think it's a disease. I had an argument with a carpenter once upon a time. He was supposed to have replaced the roof over my stoop. What he did was build a roof that was 2" in from each side (I don't think he ever heard of a plumb bob). When I complained he insisted that it looked good. He spent more time on making it look wonderful but the functionality became non-existent. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 01 10:20:34 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVY1DNSSw3UjhgyNBPnbEfTAyLJQevrf3ACn+T3kmrvmqQQxmOQlAO2a X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 12:24:17 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-228 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96559 In article , "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: >On Tue, 11 Dec 01 14:05:09 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >>In article , >> "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: >>> >>>For those of you who have seen many different computers: >>> >>>Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ >>>panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? >>> >>>(You see, I am building a new home >>>system, and most case design seem so blah.... ) >> >>I don't give a shit what it looks like as long as it's useful. > >I do have exceptionally tidy workroom. I don't know >whether it's guy thing to do or not, but I do pay >much attention to interior deco of my house. Useful >things doesn't have to be ugly. I didn't say that useful things had to be ugly. I did say that looks should be at the bottom of the design list, IMO. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 01 11:57:55 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 29 Message-ID: <9vacc1$fg9$7@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com> <9v9dvm$3cu$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVb17GZJyF6bTtay4BsnIQ9iwsgMmGSqftwuAVRWl5MnQliDMAvsXQ5O X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 14:01:37 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-228 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96561 In article <9v9dvm$3cu$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>, ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) wrote: >"Charlie Gibbs" (cgibbs@sky.bus.com) writes: >> >> Better still, if you had a write-protect switch like the old drives >> did, you could protect the drive when you don't expect to be writing >> to it. > > Tuesday I installed AOL Canada's version 3 appliance on a 486 system > running W3.11 - seemed to go OK. Tried to signoff from AOL, and > suddenly this shitload of M$ IE starts downloading WITHOUT any permission > on my part. The machine was wrapped up with this tail end processing > for at least an hour, because I was too chicken to halt it, (in case I > had to restart the whole shebang). That was a feature of Version 3. > .. Someone(s) need a kick in the head. Why do you think I'm still using V2.5? It drives them crazy (both tech support and software sniffing). Of course, they're slowly changing all format standards. Soon I won't be able to access AOL for the few aspects I do use. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 01 12:32:09 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 14 Message-ID: <9vaec6$3sp$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYC1CKcx7rzgilJpy6b3zmaKGUqwHfa2d7e/m5L9+ZxGKbLqaCIv5WX X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 14:35:50 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!skynet.be!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-208 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96562 In article , Russell Marks wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> If I had read/write lights on my disk, I'd be able to tell exactly >> when Misoft is trying to fuck me over [...] > >I think you want the light labelled "power". Nice point. :-))) /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:11:58 -0500 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com> <3C1864A7.C4FDCA0D@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-457.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Mail-Copies-To: nobody Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!209.155.233.16!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96597 In article <3C1864A7.C4FDCA0D@yahoo.com>, CBFalconer wrote: > IDE drives? Where is it? Perhaps not on IDE drives, but certainly on SCSI drives. You got me. I've not paid much attention to IDE drives. I just plug 'em in. SCSI drives OTOH, I've paid lots of attention to. On SCSI drives, it's one of the jumpers. On IDE drives, I suspect there'd be a way to write protect them, but not in a useful way. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" Golf vs Bug: VW has been cutting corners ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> From: Russell Marks Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: Date: 13 Dec 2001 14:13:16 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.252.8.43 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1008252817 62.252.8.43 (Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:13:37 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:13:37 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96540 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > If I had read/write lights on my disk, I'd be able to tell exactly > when Misoft is trying to fuck me over [...] I think you want the light labelled "power". -Rus. ###### From: J Ahlstrom Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 07:00:35 -0800 Organization: Cisco Systems Inc. Message-ID: <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: sj-nntpcache-3!unknown@171.69.75.70 X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 49 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96616 According to groups.google.com the real letter is MEMORANDUM August 28, 1963 Memorandum To: Messrs. A. L. Williams T. V. Learson H. W. Miller, Jr. E. R. Piore O. M. Scott M. B. Smith A. K. Watson Last week CDC had a press conference during which they officially announced their 6600 system. I understand that in the laboratory developing this system there are only 34 people, "including the janitor." Of these, 14 are engineers and 4 are programmers, and only one person has a PhD., a relatively junior programmer. To the outsider, the laboratory appeared to be cost concious, hard working, and highly motivated. Contrasting this modest effort with our own vast development activities, I fail to understand why we have lost our industry leadership by letting someone else offer the world's most powerful computer. At Jenny Lake, I think top priority should be given to a discussionas to what we are doing wrong and how we should go about changing it immediately. T. J. Watson, Jr. TJW,Jr:jmc cc: Mr. W. B. McWhirter -- The first ten ammendments to the Constitution are what make this country worth fighting for. ###### From: J Ahlstrom Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 07:13:07 -0800 Organization: Cisco Systems Inc. Message-ID: <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: sj-nntpcache-3!unknown@171.69.75.70 X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 30 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96614 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > > I didn't say that useful things had to be ugly. I did say > that looks should be at the bottom of the design list, IMO. > > /BAH > > In 1993 George Fisher, the head of Motorola, moved to Kodak. The NY Times did a long article on him. He has a technical PhD (Applied Math, Brown). He was quoted as saying something like: "For a technologist it was humbling to realize that you could triple the sales of a pager just by changing its color." I think the next guy to notice that or to understand it and copy it was S Jobs. JKA -- The first ten amendments to the constitution are what make this a country worth fighting for. Ignorance and apathy are what make it so difficult to defend. Jack Barone ###### From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:21:54 -0000 Message-ID: <1008256915.18682.0.nnrp-08.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> <815.745T1093T9794094@sky.bus.com> <3C17897B.97582CEF@hawaga.org.uk> Reply-To: "Peter Ibbotson" NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1008256915 nnrp-08:18682 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Lines: 24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96611 "Edward Franks" wrote in message news:MPG.16816c5741f40daf98a94c@news.alt.net... > My glass typewriter shows Ben Clifford, > pondering... > [Snip] > > I think Edward Franks posting has the most > > likely explanation. > > Having pressed the hibernate mode button more than once by > accident, I was pretty sure that the moon button, aka sleepy time for > your PC, was the suspend button. It is rather embarrassing to do that > when you are trying to fix a problem with your mother's PC. :-D > > Give me an IBM PS/2 clickity-clack keyboard any day. > try http://www.pckeyboard.com Mine clicks like a good 'un -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### From: Edward Franks Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:51:42 -0600 Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access - http://www.altopia.com Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> <815.745T1093T9794094@sky.bus.com> <3C17897B.97582CEF@hawaga.org.uk> <1008256915.18682.0.nnrp-08.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96578 My glass typewriter shows Peter Ibbotson, pondering... [Snip] > try http://www.pckeyboard.com Mine clicks like a good 'un I want an Avant Stellar . :) Though if lots of keys attract your interest, the Ortek MCK-142 is for you . -- Fortran | "There isn't enough darkness in the world EDL | to quench the light of one small candle." ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:00:19 -0000 Organization: BT Internet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-195-176.btinternet.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96595 wrote in message news:9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net... > In article , > "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: > >I do have exceptionally tidy workroom. I don't know > >whether it's guy thing to do or not, but I do pay > >much attention to interior deco of my house. Useful > >things doesn't have to be ugly. > > I didn't say that useful things had to be ugly. I did say > that looks should be at the bottom of the design list, IMO. Ugh, I have to disagree with you... Ugly things carry a taint with them, they usually hint that the design is flawed in some way. Quite uglyness screams that the craftsman failed to pay attention to detail. I would say that if you design something properly that the asthetics of it will take care of themselves. The vast majority of people have instincts for good design, and quite often they will identify "uglyness" with bad design. Cheers, Rupert ###### Message-ID: <3C19183D.4D5F97AA@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com> <3C1864A7.C4FDCA0D@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:09:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.127.202.215 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc54 1008270588 204.127.202.215 (Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:09:48 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:09:48 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!wn2feed!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.204!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!rwcrnsc54.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96607 Howard S Shubs wrote: > > In article <3C1864A7.C4FDCA0D@yahoo.com>, CBFalconer > wrote: > > > IDE drives? Where is it? > > Perhaps not on IDE drives, but certainly on SCSI drives. You got me. I've > not paid much attention to IDE drives. I just plug 'em in. SCSI drives OTOH, > I've paid lots of attention to. > > On SCSI drives, it's one of the jumpers. On IDE drives, I suspect there'd be > a way to write protect them, but not in a useful way. > I had an IDE drive (a Maxtor) a couple of years ago that was write protected...and read protected. Basically, it crashed...*not* useful for anything but a paperweight... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3C19198E.DDDE156B@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C17F34E.EB21EE95@ev1.net> <9v9gap$263$2@uranium.btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:15:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.127.202.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc52 1008270925 204.127.202.214 (Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:15:25 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:15:25 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.204!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!rwcrnsc52.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96610 Rupert Pigott wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > This led me to thinking that perhaps Bill and his legions of d0rkn355 should > change their business model, to something like the OpenBSD one. Where you > provide the OS free via the Net, but provide CDs and T-Shirts... Then I > thought, nah, this can't work, Billwarez sport very poor customer > satisfaction figures. I doubt that you'd get the big corporations falling > over themselves to sponsor development either. Certainly would be > interesting to see what happened if BillG said "OK, the good news is : > Windows is for Free, the bad news is : Some suckers are gonna have to > sponsor development". Maybe they would get away with it because of Billz > 1337 vendor lock-in skillz. > It would *not* surpise me if marketing-whiz Mr. Bill decided to start a company on the side to sell "anti-Mi$uck" materials. You know...T-shirts that say "Mi$oft Sucks!!!" and such. After all, he would *not* want to miss out on the large anti-Mi$uck market, would he??? (Of course, this company would have to hide the fact that it has any relation to Mi$uck, but hiding facts is something that Mr. Bill is already good at...) -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3C1919C7.11DB9701@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vaec6$3sp$1@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:16:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.127.202.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc51 1008270982 204.127.202.214 (Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:16:22 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:16:22 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.stealth.net!204.127.161.2.MISMATCH!wn2feed!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.204!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!rwcrnsc51.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96603 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article , > Russell Marks wrote: > >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > > >> If I had read/write lights on my disk, I'd be able to tell exactly > >> when Misoft is trying to fuck me over [...] > > > >I think you want the light labelled "power". > > Nice point. :-))) > Kind of like the joke: "How do you tell when an Army recruiter is lying to you???" "His lips are moving..." -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 45 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:21:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.127.202.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc53 1008271283 204.127.202.214 (Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:21:23 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:21:23 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!wn2feed!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.204!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!rwcrnsc53.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96604 J Ahlstrom wrote: > > According to groups.google.com the real letter is > > MEMORANDUM > > August 28, 1963 > > Memorandum To: Messrs. A. L. Williams > T. V. Learson > H. W. Miller, Jr. > E. R. Piore > O. M. Scott > M. B. Smith > A. K. Watson > > Last week CDC had a press conference during which they officially > announced their 6600 system. I understand that in the laboratory > developing this system there are only 34 people, "including the > janitor." Of these, 14 are engineers and 4 are programmers, and > only one person has a PhD., a relatively junior programmer. To > the outsider, the laboratory appeared to be cost concious, hard > working, and highly motivated. > > Contrasting this modest effort with our own vast development > activities, I fail to understand why we have lost our industry > leadership by letting someone else offer the world's most > powerful computer. At Jenny Lake, I think top priority should > be given to a discussionas to what we are doing wrong and how we > should go about changing it immediately. > > T. J. Watson, Jr. > > TJW,Jr:jmc > cc: Mr. W. B. McWhirter > And supposedly when Seymour Cray saw this memo, he said: "I think that Mr. Watson has answered his own question." -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> Subject: Re: Blinking lights Lines: 36 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2479.0006 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:20:50 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.93.140.168 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1008274658 65.93.140.168 (Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:17:38 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:17:38 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news1.tor.metronet.ca!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96589 "Rupert Pigott" wrote in message news:9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com... > wrote in message news:9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net... > > In article , > > "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: > > >I do have exceptionally tidy workroom. I don't know > > >whether it's guy thing to do or not, but I do pay > > >much attention to interior deco of my house. Useful > > >things doesn't have to be ugly. > > > > I didn't say that useful things had to be ugly. I did say > > that looks should be at the bottom of the design list, IMO. > > Ugh, I have to disagree with you... Ugly things carry a taint with them, > they usually hint that the design is flawed in some way. Quite uglyness > screams that the craftsman failed to pay attention to detail. > > I would say that if you design something properly that the asthetics of it > will take care of themselves. The vast majority of people have instincts for > good design, and quite often they will identify "uglyness" with bad design. > > Cheers, > Rupert > I quite agree. In fact "ugly solution" is a synonym for "badly engineered". I have yet to see an ugly flower. In fact, a really ugly product will do about as well as a sterile flower in the real world, and techies that lose sight of that are not very good, IMNSHO. Donald ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:12:22 +0100 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 42 Message-ID: <20011213221222.6c6196e1.steveo@eircom.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <20011212075655.0b5630ed.steveo@eircom.net> <9va6t5$33p$6@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1124.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 1008278455 48002 194.134.203.105 (13 Dec 2001 21:20:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:20:55 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.6.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96620 On Thu, 13 Dec 01 10:24:38 GMT jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: JC> In article <20011212075655.0b5630ed.steveo@eircom.net>, JC> Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: JC> >Male JC> JC> I've never heard that description. JC> I like it. Many many years ago I heard the phrase (often) "The ambient temperature is adequate for the removal, by refrigeration, of the peripherals of an alloy anthropoid". It was (in some ways) a cute phrase, a pity that it missed the meaning of the original. JC> I guess my peripherals are internal? If you don't know where they are by now there is little hope for you. JC> >Nope - I don't think this is a gender linked thing. JC> > JC> I think it's a disease. I had an argument with a carpenter JC> once upon a time. He was supposed to have replaced the roof JC> over my stoop. What he did was build a roof that was 2" in JC> from each side (I don't think he ever heard of a plumb bob). JC> When I complained he insisted that it looked good. He spent JC> more time on making it look wonderful but the functionality JC> became non-existent. Form before function - yep that's a disease. It appears to be an epidemic among groups of people designating themselves as HCI(1) experts. They tend to be keen on making systems more "approachable". (1) That's "Human Computer Interface" for those without buzzword dictionaries. -- C:>WIN | Directable Mirrors The computer obeys and wins. |A Better Way To Focus The Sun You lose and Bill collects. | licenses available - see: | http://www.sohara.org/ ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Fri, 14 Dec 01 09:22:56 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 38 Message-ID: <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVauHnI1ItCt3XbmXnhpamlR21VuFsbl8TTI4/GTqcA/nZoMzC6EdT/U X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2001 11:26:49 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-55 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96707 In article <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com>, J Ahlstrom wrote: > > >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> >> I didn't say that useful things had to be ugly. I did say >> that looks should be at the bottom of the design list, IMO. >> >> /BAH >> >> > >In 1993 George Fisher, the head of Motorola, >moved to Kodak. The NY Times did a long article on him. >He has a technical PhD (Applied Math, Brown). >He was quoted as saying something like: > "For a technologist it was humbling to > realize that you could triple the sales > of a pager just by changing its color." > >I think the next guy to notice that or to understand >it and copy it was S Jobs. Yea, I know :-(. I was standing in line some place and somehow the woman, next to me, and I started talking about bed sheets. I made the comment that I only bought white because it went with everything. She looked at me like I'd just grown an extra head and informed me that one should change color schemes of every room in the house four times a year. The woman who was on the other side of the counter and I looked at each other; we both knew that we were thinking, "It must be nice to have so much free time to waste." /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Fri, 14 Dec 01 09:31:54 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 45 Message-ID: <9vco6j$9um$6@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com> <9v9dvm$3cu$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <9vacc1$fg9$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <2033.747T1878T5515655@sky.bus.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZxv+qqERfUFy0YaX0zZ9pwsXC1BweQGsZVney97vQ5CTZJwqrjsbgi X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2001 11:35:47 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-55 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96696 In article <2033.747T1878T5515655@sky.bus.com>, "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >In article <9vacc1$fg9$7@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com (jmfbahciv) >writes: > >>In article <9v9dvm$3cu$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>, >>ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) wrote: >>> .. Someone(s) need a kick in the head. >> >>Why do you think I'm still using V2.5? It drives them crazy >>(both tech support and software sniffing). >>Of course, they're slowly changing all format standards. Soon >>I won't be able to access AOL for the few aspects I do use. > >Good, then you can switch over to a real ISP This Ultranet used to be one (they used Unix on Alphas). Then they got bought out by RCN. The monthly fee went down...and so did the service. > ... and a real newsreader. AOL's e-mail is still useful. It doesn't insist on downloading everything before I can scan the hit list. Besides, how else am I going to find out what nefarious things are happening out in the PC world? >I might even suggest a real OS, but if you can't can't bear the >thought of switching to Linux you should at least check out Free >Agent, which I hear is a pretty tolerable newsreader if you're >stuck with Windoze. > I went to the library to check Free Agent out at their WWW site. I can't remember the details, but I went away pissed off because, instead of specs, the info was marketing of the ilk that insulted me. Someday, I'll be getting a Unix of some flavor...but only because it'll run the TOPS10 emulator. :-) /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Fri, 14 Dec 01 09:35:08 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 53 Message-ID: <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbBeaAyaHpW5/exfP79htgyhsrPjbQ4IyuGeTv9aPVnFCH+NJ2O3bve X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2001 11:39:01 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-55 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96702 In article <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >J Ahlstrom wrote: >> >> According to groups.google.com the real letter is >> >> MEMORANDUM >> >> August 28, 1963 >> >> Memorandum To: Messrs. A. L. Williams >> T. V. Learson >> H. W. Miller, Jr. >> E. R. Piore >> O. M. Scott >> M. B. Smith >> A. K. Watson >> >> Last week CDC had a press conference during which they officially >> announced their 6600 system. I understand that in the laboratory >> developing this system there are only 34 people, "including the >> janitor." Of these, 14 are engineers and 4 are programmers, and >> only one person has a PhD., a relatively junior programmer. To >> the outsider, the laboratory appeared to be cost concious, hard >> working, and highly motivated. >> >> Contrasting this modest effort with our own vast development >> activities, I fail to understand why we have lost our industry >> leadership by letting someone else offer the world's most >> powerful computer. At Jenny Lake, I think top priority should >> be given to a discussionas to what we are doing wrong and how we >> should go about changing it immediately. >> >> T. J. Watson, Jr. >> >> TJW,Jr:jmc >> cc: Mr. W. B. McWhirter >> >And supposedly when Seymour Cray saw this memo, he said: > >"I think that Mr. Watson has answered his own question." Right. One of the reasons VMS took so damned long to get useful was too many cooks. TOPS-20 had 10-12 people; they took a long time to get anything done. Nobody could agree on the functional specs, let alone the design specs. I can't imagine efficient source control with a development group of 200 people. They'ld be tripping all over each other. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 14 Dec 01 12:12:24 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 16 Message-ID: <581.748T1208T7324297@sky.bus.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net><9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net><9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-399.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96645 In article <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> steveo@eircom.net (Steve O'Hara-Smith) writes: > Engineers that lose sight of the real goals are the ones that >are not very good. If the "real goal" is to sell lots of units to lusers who are seduced by flashy but useless designs, a good engineer might well be faced with a career decision. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 14 Dec 01 12:14:16 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: <869.748T836T7344053@sky.bus.com> References: <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-385.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96641 In article cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) writes: >According to Howard S Shubs : > >> One, I saw in National Geographic. It's a parasitic plant which >> lives on vines in the Amazon basin. It's a couple feet in diameter >> during the few days it blooms, then it turns into a horrific black >> mass. > >I remember seeing a programme about that thing. Big, ugly bugger that >grew as big as it fancied because it was freeloading off whichever >tree it had attached itself to, and apparently smelt even worse than >it looked, which is a feat in itself. Sort of like the government? -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 14 Dec 01 12:30:43 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 28 Message-ID: <1176.748T2177T7505598@sky.bus.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-513.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!199.60.229.5!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96654 In article howard@shubs.net (Howard S Shubs) writes: > >In article <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> Yea, I know :-(. I was standing in line some place and somehow >> the woman, next to me, and I started talking about bed sheets. >> I made the comment that I only bought white because it went >> with everything. She looked at me like I'd just grown an extra >> head and informed me that one should change color schemes of >> every room in the house four times a year. The woman who was >> on the other side of the counter and I looked at each other; >> we both knew that we were thinking, "It must be nice to have >> so much free time to waste." > >And money, too. Yeah, but at least those people are keeping The Economy going. :-/ One sign that our society has undergone a rather nasty paradigm shift is that what were once "customers" are now called "consumers". -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sat, 15 Dec 01 10:06:46 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 50 Message-ID: <9vfek9$d55$10@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1176.748T2177T7505598@sky.bus.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZrCyvsNNclGdxvGltt+jxoHMF8b3ScLUShcLPXDTzS7VQIultHW8HJ X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Dec 2001 12:10:49 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-99 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96689 In article <1176.748T2177T7505598@sky.bus.com>, "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >In article >howard@shubs.net (Howard S Shubs) writes: >> >>In article <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >>> Yea, I know :-(. I was standing in line some place and somehow >>> the woman, next to me, and I started talking about bed sheets. >>> I made the comment that I only bought white because it went >>> with everything. She looked at me like I'd just grown an extra >>> head and informed me that one should change color schemes of >>> every room in the house four times a year. The woman who was >>> on the other side of the counter and I looked at each other; >>> we both knew that we were thinking, "It must be nice to have >>> so much free time to waste." >> >>And money, too. > >Yeah, but at least those people are keeping The Economy going. :-/ I don't think so. Just because money is spent does not imply robust economies. Her purchase of junk quite likely produces costs that exceed her credit card bill. Note that her practice produces trash and other costs. Now if she used her decorating abilities to improve new things and not the same thing over and over again, I'd consider her efforts productive. I mean [emoticon wrenching the topic back to computers] do you keep rewriting every routine from scratch? I die of the boredom! > >One sign that our society has undergone a rather nasty paradigm shift >is that what were once "customers" are now called "consumers". > I just walked into a place the other day, where I was treated like a customer. I could have kissed that FedEx guy; he was so refreshing. I stated what I wanted to ship and my concerns, and he produced packaging, marked the blanks I had to fill in, offered me the option of having him do final package securing. I walked out with my precious packaging materials feeling like both of us had accomplished something. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sat, 15 Dec 01 10:09:51 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 67 Message-ID: <9vfeq2$d55$11@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbr8uGIaeCWjKItnrRfud3EuDMMPGGdYuVM7VwLZnk8b5eTfynh6jwk X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Dec 2001 12:13:54 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-99 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96688 In article , "Donald Tees" wrote: > wrote in message news:9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net... >> In article <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net>, >> Charles Richmond wrote: >> >J Ahlstrom wrote: >> >> >> >> According to groups.google.com the real letter is >> >> >> >> MEMORANDUM >> >> >> >> August 28, 1963 >> >> >> >> Memorandum To: Messrs. A. L. Williams >> >> T. V. Learson >> >> H. W. Miller, Jr. >> >> E. R. Piore >> >> O. M. Scott >> >> M. B. Smith >> >> A. K. Watson >> >> >> >> Last week CDC had a press conference during which they officially >> >> announced their 6600 system. I understand that in the laboratory >> >> developing this system there are only 34 people, "including the >> >> janitor." Of these, 14 are engineers and 4 are programmers, and >> >> only one person has a PhD., a relatively junior programmer. To >> >> the outsider, the laboratory appeared to be cost concious, hard >> >> working, and highly motivated. >> >> >> >> Contrasting this modest effort with our own vast development >> >> activities, I fail to understand why we have lost our industry >> >> leadership by letting someone else offer the world's most >> >> powerful computer. At Jenny Lake, I think top priority should >> >> be given to a discussionas to what we are doing wrong and how we >> >> should go about changing it immediately. >> >> >> >> T. J. Watson, Jr. >> >> >> >> TJW,Jr:jmc >> >> cc: Mr. W. B. McWhirter >> >> >> >And supposedly when Seymour Cray saw this memo, he said: >> > >> >"I think that Mr. Watson has answered his own question." >> >> Right. One of the reasons VMS took so damned long to get >> useful was too many cooks. TOPS-20 had 10-12 people; they >> took a long time to get anything done. Nobody could agree >> on the functional specs, let alone the design specs. >> >> I can't imagine efficient source control with a development >> group of 200 people. They'ld be tripping all over each other. >> >> /BAH >> > I once heard a quote to the effect that "anything worthwhile has always >been done by a solitary starving artist in a garret". I have no idea from >whence it came, but it always struck me as having a lot of truth in it. I disagree. The ideal number of people is 3. Two to do the work of the implementation and the third to ensure sanity checks. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sat, 15 Dec 01 10:11:56 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9vfetv$d55$12@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vd8n6$1ck$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZG4ZGqXQLnmguTbg7WpaKrXzjjkVtYl7ZNW0KvFFRZGiTxUEaY7UD4 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Dec 2001 12:15:59 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-99 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96699 In article <9vd8n6$1ck$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com>, tmm@spamfilter.asns.tr.unisys.com (Tim McCaffrey) wrote: >In article <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com says... > >>I can't imagine efficient source control with a development >>group of 200 people. They'ld be tripping all over each other. >> >Trust me, it is possible, but you need something more sophisticated than >simple file check in/check out. (Yes, I do configuration management tools). I know it's getting done. My point was _sources_. With source control tools, source freeze is no longer meaningful. It is really update freeze. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sat, 15 Dec 01 10:15:41 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 30 Message-ID: <9vff51$d55$13@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYG7PEW2H8pCsqgu0wbqbYWVXQxnI4Yuv7nbhHOnTFj8bkkOAdRU2gz X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Dec 2001 12:19:45 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-99 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96680 In article , Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >> Right. One of the reasons VMS took so damned long to get >> useful was too many cooks. TOPS-20 had 10-12 people; they >> took a long time to get anything done. Nobody could agree >> on the functional specs, let alone the design specs. >> >> I can't imagine efficient source control with a development >> group of 200 people. They'ld be tripping all over each other. > >imagine 200-300 working on just the specs ... who couldn't agree or in >the case of FS possibly 1200 .... it never gets out of the spec phase. I don't have to imagine it. I got to watch it. We called it DECnet. What the guys implemented in ANF-10 took the powers-that-be-in-charge-of DECnet about 15 years to accomplish. Of course, by the time they got anything out, it was always too little, too late. When we got the edict that "thou shalt spake in DECnet", our developers kept comparing what DECnet did(not) allow and what ANF-10 could do years before. There was a reason those people in the north were considered idiots. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sat, 15 Dec 01 11:39:18 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 85 Message-ID: <9vfk1p$6tm$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vfeq2$d55$11@bob.news.rcn.net> <3zHS7.34758$DO.4168886@news20.bellglobal.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYIX4HmXiceeAzxpi+zJywDIJ8Ko8AsiR5wK/IsshvT8PQiPFrkr9+g X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Dec 2001 13:43:21 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!209-122-233-199 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96695 In article <3zHS7.34758$DO.4168886@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Donald Tees" wrote: > wrote in message news:9vfeq2$d55$11@bob.news.rcn.net... >> In article , >> "Donald Tees" wrote: >> > wrote in message >news:9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net... >> >> In article <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net>, >> >> Charles Richmond wrote: >> >> >J Ahlstrom wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> According to groups.google.com the real letter is >> >> >> >> >> >> MEMORANDUM >> >> >> >> >> >> August 28, 1963 >> >> >> >> >> >> Memorandum To: Messrs. A. L. Williams >> >> >> T. V. Learson >> >> >> H. W. Miller, Jr. >> >> >> E. R. Piore >> >> >> O. M. Scott >> >> >> M. B. Smith >> >> >> A. K. Watson >> >> >> >> >> >> Last week CDC had a press conference during which they officially >> >> >> announced their 6600 system. I understand that in the laboratory >> >> >> developing this system there are only 34 people, "including the >> >> >> janitor." Of these, 14 are engineers and 4 are programmers, and >> >> >> only one person has a PhD., a relatively junior programmer. To >> >> >> the outsider, the laboratory appeared to be cost concious, hard >> >> >> working, and highly motivated. >> >> >> >> >> >> Contrasting this modest effort with our own vast development >> >> >> activities, I fail to understand why we have lost our industry >> >> >> leadership by letting someone else offer the world's most >> >> >> powerful computer. At Jenny Lake, I think top priority should >> >> >> be given to a discussionas to what we are doing wrong and how we >> >> >> should go about changing it immediately. >> >> >> >> >> >> T. J. Watson, Jr. >> >> >> >> >> >> TJW,Jr:jmc >> >> >> cc: Mr. W. B. McWhirter >> >> >> >> >> >And supposedly when Seymour Cray saw this memo, he said: >> >> > >> >> >"I think that Mr. Watson has answered his own question." >> >> >> >> Right. One of the reasons VMS took so damned long to get >> >> useful was too many cooks. TOPS-20 had 10-12 people; they >> >> took a long time to get anything done. Nobody could agree >> >> on the functional specs, let alone the design specs. >> >> >> >> I can't imagine efficient source control with a development >> >> group of 200 people. They'ld be tripping all over each other. >> >> >> >> /BAH >> >> >> > I once heard a quote to the effect that "anything worthwhile has always >> >been done by a solitary starving artist in a garret". I have no idea >> from >> >whence it came, but it always struck me as having a lot of truth in it. >> >> I disagree. The ideal number of people is 3. Two to do the >> work of the implementation and the third to ensure sanity >> checks. >> > >Perhaps. A large pizza distributes better, and it can certainly help to >bounce ideas arround. I've seen two go off the deep end of one-pluses themselves. It always takes a third to remind them they have have walk on the ground. > .. Notice I said "a lot of truth", not the only truth. Oh, now I notice that you said that :-). /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 13 Dec 2001 22:26:39 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 10 Message-ID: <9vb9uv$qf3$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1008282399 27107 134.117.136.30 (13 Dec 2001 22:26:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 22:26:39 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96735 "Donald Tees" (donald_tees@sympatico.ca) writes: > I quite agree. In fact "ugly solution" is a synonym for "badly engineered". > I have yet to see an ugly flower. ... Define 'see'. There are plants (pitcher ?) that have foul smelling rotting carrion to attract more food and/or fertilization! (The 286 just barfed at the thought.) ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <9vb9uv$qf3$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> Subject: Re: Blinking lights Lines: 17 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2479.0006 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:37:08 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.93.140.168 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1008282835 65.93.140.168 (Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:33:55 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:33:55 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96769 "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote in message news:9vb9uv$qf3$1@freenet9.carleton.ca... > "Donald Tees" (donald_tees@sympatico.ca) writes: > > > I quite agree. In fact "ugly solution" is a synonym for "badly engineered". > > I have yet to see an ugly flower. > ... > > Define 'see'. There are plants (pitcher ?) that have foul smelling > rotting carrion to attract more food and/or fertilization! > Beauty is obviously in the eye of the user ... ###### From: Alexios Chouchoulas Subject: Re: Blinking lights Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com> Lines: 24 Organization: BedroomLAN Secret Headquarters User-Agent: KNode/0.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Message-ID: <1fmbv9.p1h.ln@10.2.1.7> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 02:16:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.195.42.29 X-Complaints-To: http://www.blueyonder.co.uk/abuse X-Trace: news1.cableinet.net 1008296212 80.195.42.29 (Fri, 14 Dec 2001 02:16:52 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 02:16:52 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!internal-news-hub.cableinet.net!news1.cableinet.net.POSTED!10.2.1.7!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96793 Howard S Shubs wrote: > In article <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com>, > "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: > >> Better still, if you had a write-protect switch like the old drives >> did, you could protect the drive when you don't expect to be writing >> to it. > > Could do it. Every drive I've seen has a jumper to make it r/o. Put a > switch on that and there ya go. There's no guarantee the drive will honour that while it's running, though. I suspect some (A few? Most?) drives will only read the dip switch bank just after a reset or during initial power up. Pity, if it's true. You have to love front panels on disk drives (thinking of the 8" SMD drive in my closet, the one I use to scare guests with). -- =----------------------------------------------= 64*>:00p258**44$$^>4$,1-:#v_v | Alexios Chouchoulas, the Unpronounceable One | 4$#^; BEFUNGE97 ;^#_@#:-1$>#< | http://www.vennea.demon.co.uk/ | 4*2-*26g00*:-*58: Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:10:54 -0500 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-850.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Mail-Copies-To: nobody Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96789 In article , "Donald Tees" wrote: > I quite agree. In fact "ugly solution" is a synonym for "badly engineered". > I have yet to see an ugly flower. In fact, a really ugly product will do > about as well as a sterile flower in the real world, and techies that lose > sight of that are not very good, IMNSHO. If it's biological, it's being done some place. I know of two different kinds of flowers which smell of rotting carion, to attract flies. These plants are on opposite sides of the planet from each other. One, I saw in National Geographic. It's a parasitic plant which lives on vines in the Amazon basin. It's a couple feet in diameter during the few days it blooms, then it turns into a horrific black mass. The other is, IIRC, in Indonesia. I saw it in the paper a few years ago. Apparently, it doesn't flower often and it was a slow news day, or something. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" Golf vs Bug: VW has been cutting corners ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 23:12:29 -0500 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <9vb9uv$qf3$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-886.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Mail-Copies-To: nobody Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96794 In article <9vb9uv$qf3$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>, ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) wrote: > Define 'see'. There are plants (pitcher ?) that have foul smelling > rotting carrion to attract more food and/or fertilization! IIRC, pitcher plants look good to such critters. But that's not the flower, IIRC, it's a specialized leaf. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" Golf vs Bug: VW has been cutting corners ###### Message-ID: <3C19884C.9C9383E5@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com> <1fmbv9.p1h.ln@10.2.1.7> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 05:13:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.169.69 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1008306794 12.90.169.69 (Fri, 14 Dec 2001 05:13:14 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 05:13:14 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96624 Alexios Chouchoulas wrote: > > Howard S Shubs wrote: > > > In article <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com>, > > "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: > > > >> Better still, if you had a write-protect switch like the old drives > >> did, you could protect the drive when you don't expect to be writing > >> to it. > > > > Could do it. Every drive I've seen has a jumper to make it r/o. Put a > > switch on that and there ya go. > > There's no guarantee the drive will honour that while it's running, though. > I suspect some (A few? Most?) drives will only read the dip switch bank just > after a reset or during initial power up. > > Pity, if it's true. You have to love front panels on disk drives (thinking > of the 8" SMD drive in my closet, the one I use to scare guests with). I used to drill little holes in the front panels of the floppy drives and mount a toggle switch. That made it write protected. My bios drivers detected write protect and emitted a message. Flip the switch, hit , it writes, and flip the switch back. Nothing could go wild without being noticed. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:20:13 +0100 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 41 Message-ID: <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p410.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 1008352804 56973 194.134.201.10 (14 Dec 2001 18:00:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:00:04 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.6.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!news.algonet.se!algonet!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96748 On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:20:50 -0500 "Donald Tees" wrote: DT> I quite agree. In fact "ugly solution" is a synonym for "badly engineered". There is a difference between elegance (in the mathematicians sense) and beauty (in the esthetic sense). The former is associated with good engineering the latter is not except where it arises from the former. I have seen plenty of very pretty crud, and I have seen well engineered things that are not beautiful (the combine harvester springs to mind). In computing X11 is elegant and Windows XP is pretty, which is the better engineered ? DT> I have yet to see an ugly flower. In fact, a really ugly product will do Few people consider baby flies to be beautiful, not all of natures success stories are achieved with beauty. The flower is a bad example - it has attractiveness as a major requirement. Now tell me about the beauty of the root system that feeds it (pale white hairy tendrils going in all directions - not pretty, just good). DT> about as well as a sterile flower in the real world, and techies that lose DT> sight of that are not very good, IMNSHO. Engineers that lose sight of the real goals are the ones that are not very good. I read one PC motherboard review that seemed to consider the most important thing about the board was the colour (it was red IIRC) which was a refreshing change after all the green boards. This has to be the least important aspect of a component that will spend most of it's life inside a closed case. It wouldn't surprise me if that red colour was due to choosing a material that reduced the intertrack capacitance slightly - if this was the case the reviewer missed the important point, OTOH perphaps it was just to make the board pretty, I don't know. The reviewer never bothered to find out *why* the material was chosen, ve just raved about the colour. -- C:>WIN | Directable Mirrors The computer obeys and wins. |A Better Way To Focus The Sun You lose and Bill collects. | licenses available - see: | http://www.sohara.org/ ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 14 Dec 2001 03:44:20 -0500 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 31 Message-ID: <9vce54$245$1@panix3.panix.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 1008319460 22150 166.84.1.3 (14 Dec 2001 08:44:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2001 08:44:20 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!opentransit.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!panix!news.panix.com!panix3.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96659 >> Blinking lights used to be useful, didn't they? >PC keyboards seem to be getting a lot more lights - the Internet >Keyboard I just bought has 5 lights (caps lock, num lock, scroll lock, >envelope lock and moon lock). Some newswire service did that better, but a small LCD on the kybd, probably for headlines and such. I forgot if there were any buttons to bring you to the story, scroll, etc. I wish that user-programmable displays had caught on. Some PCs and small servers had 8-16 character displays on the front panel, which would've been great for debugging. I remember seeing tiny PCs (usually network devices) with an LCD and a few buttons in the drive bay so it operated with no kybd or console. I remember some workstations (Sun?) with about 8 leds that would ping-ping so long as the system was running right. The only program I remember writing on the Callan Unistar was to flash the 8 leds in nice patterns. Folks *crave* blinking lights! That's why stereos have VU meters and the new ones have light shows on the displays. I've seen graphic equalizers that fit in a 5.25" drive bay to fill that urge! -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 14 Dec 2001 03:45:54 -0500 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 9 Message-ID: <9vce82$29i$1@panix3.panix.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <1f4ajnd.yx1gla12ud5dsN%jim@magrathea.plus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 1008319554 22180 166.84.1.3 (14 Dec 2001 08:45:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2001 08:45:54 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!panix!news.panix.com!panix3.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96673 >> Useful things doesn't have to be ugly >A philosophy that Apple took to their heart *long* ago. Are you predicting a new breed of "Shaker design" computers? :-) -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:01:00 +0000 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Message-ID: References: <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1008329405 nnrp-08:22006 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Lines: 11 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!194.213.69.151!news.algonet.se!algonet!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96663 According to Howard S Shubs : > One, I saw in National Geographic. It's a parasitic plant which lives on > vines in the Amazon basin. It's a couple feet in diameter during the few days > it blooms, then it turns into a horrific black mass. I remember seeing a programme about that thing. Big, ugly bugger that grew as big as it fancied because it was freeloading off whichever tree it had attached itself to, and apparently smelt even worse than it looked, which is a feat in itself. Chris. ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:58:25 -0500 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-149.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Mail-Copies-To: nobody Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96796 In article <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > Yea, I know :-(. I was standing in line some place and somehow > the woman, next to me, and I started talking about bed sheets. > I made the comment that I only bought white because it went > with everything. She looked at me like I'd just grown an extra > head and informed me that one should change color schemes of > every room in the house four times a year. The woman who was > on the other side of the counter and I looked at each other; > we both knew that we were thinking, "It must be nice to have > so much free time to waste." And money, too. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" Golf vs Bug: VW has been cutting corners ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> Subject: Re: Blinking lights Lines: 60 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2479.0006 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:57:51 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.93.111.175 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1008338079 65.93.111.175 (Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:54:39 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:54:39 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96775 wrote in message news:9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net... > In article <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net>, > Charles Richmond wrote: > >J Ahlstrom wrote: > >> > >> According to groups.google.com the real letter is > >> > >> MEMORANDUM > >> > >> August 28, 1963 > >> > >> Memorandum To: Messrs. A. L. Williams > >> T. V. Learson > >> H. W. Miller, Jr. > >> E. R. Piore > >> O. M. Scott > >> M. B. Smith > >> A. K. Watson > >> > >> Last week CDC had a press conference during which they officially > >> announced their 6600 system. I understand that in the laboratory > >> developing this system there are only 34 people, "including the > >> janitor." Of these, 14 are engineers and 4 are programmers, and > >> only one person has a PhD., a relatively junior programmer. To > >> the outsider, the laboratory appeared to be cost concious, hard > >> working, and highly motivated. > >> > >> Contrasting this modest effort with our own vast development > >> activities, I fail to understand why we have lost our industry > >> leadership by letting someone else offer the world's most > >> powerful computer. At Jenny Lake, I think top priority should > >> be given to a discussionas to what we are doing wrong and how we > >> should go about changing it immediately. > >> > >> T. J. Watson, Jr. > >> > >> TJW,Jr:jmc > >> cc: Mr. W. B. McWhirter > >> > >And supposedly when Seymour Cray saw this memo, he said: > > > >"I think that Mr. Watson has answered his own question." > > Right. One of the reasons VMS took so damned long to get > useful was too many cooks. TOPS-20 had 10-12 people; they > took a long time to get anything done. Nobody could agree > on the functional specs, let alone the design specs. > > I can't imagine efficient source control with a development > group of 200 people. They'ld be tripping all over each other. > > /BAH > I once heard a quote to the effect that "anything worthwhile has always been done by a solitary starving artist in a garret". I have no idea from whence it came, but it always struck me as having a lot of truth in it. Donald ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:12:34 -0000 Organization: BT Internet Lines: 31 Message-ID: <9vd1es$ad7$1@uranium.btinternet.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-191-201.btinternet.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!193.251.151.101!opentransit.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96763 Howard S Shubs wrote in message news:howard-270EE5.23105413122001@enews.newsguy.com... > In article , > "Donald Tees" wrote: > > > I quite agree. In fact "ugly solution" is a synonym for "badly engineered". > > I have yet to see an ugly flower. In fact, a really ugly product will do [SNIP] > One, I saw in National Geographic. It's a parasitic plant which lives on > vines in the Amazon basin. It's a couple feet in diameter during the few days > it blooms, then it turns into a horrific black mass. > > The other is, IIRC, in Indonesia. I saw it in the paper a few years ago. > Apparently, it doesn't flower often and it was a slow news day, or something. I never ever thought the mention of the word "Ugly" would turn this thread into a botanical debate. :) I remember doing a survey of the sundews on the patch of Cumbrian (England) "blasted heath" we owned many years ago... Happy days. Cheers, Rupert ###### From: Joel Gallun Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 14 Dec 2001 10:08:12 -0500 Organization: AOL Time Warner Lines: 8 Sender: snake@severn.office.aol.com Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vaec6$3sp$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C1919C7.11DB9701@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: severn.office.aol.com X-Trace: inntp-m1.news.aol.com 1008342492 14725 10.0.34.253 (14 Dec 2001 15:08:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@aol.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:08:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!nntp-internal.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96784 Charles Richmond writes: > Kind of like the joke: "How do you tell when an Army recruiter > is lying to you???" "His lips are moving..." s/Army recruiter/computer salesman/ Joel ###### From: tmm@spamfilter.asns.tr.unisys.com (Tim McCaffrey) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:17:42 +0000 (UTC) Organization: A series networking Lines: 10 Message-ID: <9vd8n6$1ck$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.63.212.206 X-Trace: trsvr.tr.unisys.com 1008346662 1428 192.63.212.206 (14 Dec 2001 16:17:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@trsvr.tr.unisys.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:17:42 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!bbnews1.unisys.com!trsvr.tr.unisys.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96729 In article <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com says... >I can't imagine efficient source control with a development >group of 200 people. They'ld be tripping all over each other. > Trust me, it is possible, but you need something more sophisticated than simple file check in/check out. (Yes, I do configuration management tools). - Tim ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 14 Dec 2001 09:30:36 -0700 Organization: New Mexico State University Lines: 16 Message-ID: <1b1yhxix1v.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vaec6$3sp$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C1919C7.11DB9701@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 1008347434 15803 128.123.64.113 (14 Dec 2001 16:30:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2001 16:30:34 GMT User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96674 Joel Gallun writes: > Charles Richmond writes: > > > Kind of like the joke: "How do you tell when an Army recruiter > > is lying to you???" "His lips are moving..." > > s/Army recruiter/computer salesman/ What's the difference between a computer salesman and a used car salesman? The used car salesman knows he's lying. -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 38 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090003 (Oort Gnus v0.03) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:40:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.156.37.131 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1008348043 64.156.37.131 (Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:40:43 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:40:43 PST X-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:40:45 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96713 jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > Right. One of the reasons VMS took so damned long to get > useful was too many cooks. TOPS-20 had 10-12 people; they > took a long time to get anything done. Nobody could agree > on the functional specs, let alone the design specs. > > I can't imagine efficient source control with a development > group of 200 people. They'ld be tripping all over each other. imagine 200-300 working on just the specs ... who couldn't agree or in the case of FS possibly 1200 .... it never gets out of the spec phase. random FS & ZM refs: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#24 old manuals http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#100 Why won't the AS/400 die? Or, It's 1999 why do I have to learn how to use http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#237 I can't believe this newsgroup still exists. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#3 Computer of the century http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#16 [OT] FS - IBM Future System http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#17 [OT] FS - IBM Future System http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#18 OT? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#21 OT? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#27 OT? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#28 OT? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#30 OT? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#37 OT? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#56 TSS ancient history, was X86 ultimate CISC? designs) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#18 360/370 instruction cycle time http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#44 IBM was/is: Imitation... http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#30 IBM's "VM for the PC" c.1984?? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#33 IBM's "VM for the PC" c.1984?? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#43 Golden Era of Compilers http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#36 What was object oriented in iAPX432? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#7 YKYGOW... http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#25 mainframe question -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:18:16 -0000 Organization: BT Internet Lines: 12 Message-ID: <9vdfrj$74o$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-164-193.btinternet.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96782 wrote in message news:9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net... > I can't imagine efficient source control with a development > group of 200 people. They'ld be tripping all over each other. I couldn't either until I came across CVS. :) Seems to work OK for the job, the rest is down to careful management. :P Cheers, Rupert ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:13:48 -0600 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4u6j1uc925uejs3imou35lmks5ejbplcjp@4ax.com> References: <9v7mi5$7n0$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <1332.746T863T7383884@sky.bus.com> <1fmbv9.p1h.ln@10.2.1.7> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYMTJI4uuN2vwtWeCTUOu09dsx++9B3Ub28zh6MWbibt7YbVgOkgDK+ X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2001 19:18:13 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96805 On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 02:16:52 GMT, Alexios Chouchoulas wrote: > > Pity, if it's true. You have to love front panels on disk drives (thinking >of the 8" SMD drive in my closet, the one I use to scare guests with). You won't scare many people with one of those. I have 3 or 4 sitting downstairs. Fuji 168, 336. CDC 160. For scarier, try some CDC 9762's (80 mb SMD, 14", boat anchor class) I have 4 of them out in the garage. For really scary, dig up a Fuji Eagle. I never saw one, but the stories I have heard . . On the other hand, in the cute department, I have three 5 1/4 SMD drives, small enough to fit in a PC case. Unfortunately, most of these no longer work. -- Arargh (at arargh dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: scjones@thor.sdrc.com (Larry Jones) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 14 Dec 2001 22:59:52 GMT Organization: Structural Dynamics Research Corp. Lines: 16 Distribution: world Message-ID: <9ve098$1sr@nfs0.sdrc.com> References: Reply-To: larry.jones@sdrc.com NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.sdrc.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!den-news-01.qwest.net!newsfeed.fuse.net!sdrc.com!thor.sdrc.com!scjones Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96634 Joel Gallun (root@localhost.localdomain) wrote: > Charles Richmond writes: > > > Kind of like the joke: "How do you tell when an Army recruiter > > is lying to you???" "His lips are moving..." > > s/Army recruiter/computer salesman/ What's the difference between a used car salesman and a computer salesman? The used car salesman knows when he's lying to you. -Larry Jones I don't NEED to compromise my principles, because they don't have the slightest bearing on what happens to me anyway. -- Calvin ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:19:58 +0000 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Message-ID: References: <869.748T836T7344053@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1008372603 nnrp-02:28866 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Lines: 6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!skynet.be!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96666 According to Charlie Gibbs : > Sort of like the government? Amazingly good description, now you mention it. :) Chris. ###### Message-ID: <3C1ADA85.7638B312@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 X-Trace: /wObnc+D0x5Z2lmwXBKjUzCdPxNYelPYE7W1MBSXtEimYkNKxPGHKTmPGUasFM7hKzhy5I6NU4+o!yAEe/Mha7XeSnOUMmHc4jXWa0PTYZe/PY/B8s98QNT+LOGy0Bs4AlTr7troO5MCljkM= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 05:06:51 GMT Distribution: world Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 05:06:51 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!131.119.28.146!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!paloalto-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96633 "MSCHAEF.COM" wrote: > > Blinking lights used to be useful, didn't they? I guess it'd be more > of a challenge to implement old style lights/switches on a 1GHz chip > though. There was a brief moment in history when some computers put the blinen- lights on the screen. I remember a couple of different "graphics workstations" where certain operating system routines (e.g., page fault handler, disk interrupt, network interrupt) would write directly to two or four words of video memory to show when they were being called. Perq workstations come to mind, and maybe the Symbolics and/or LMI lisp machines. I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one other. Could it have been one of the Xerox machines? I dunno. Of course, it goes without saying that there was only one "video mode" on any of the above-mentioned machines. -- Foo! ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 14 Dec 2001 23:22:16 -0700 Organization: New Mexico State University Lines: 24 Message-ID: <1bu1utf1ev.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C1ADA85.7638B312@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 1008397334 12112 128.123.64.113 (15 Dec 2001 06:22:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Dec 2001 06:22:14 GMT User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96670 "Foobar T. Clown" writes: > > There was a brief moment in history when some computers put the blinen- > lights on the screen. I remember a couple of different "graphics > workstations" where certain operating system routines (e.g., page fault > handler, disk interrupt, network interrupt) would write directly to two > or four words of video memory to show when they were being called. Perq > workstations come to mind, and maybe the Symbolics and/or LMI lisp > machines. I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one other. Could it have > been one of the Xerox machines? I dunno. I *think* the machine I saw that was like that was a Terak (basically a PDP-11 with a floppy disk, built into a bit-mapped display) running the UCSD P-System. Very cool; when you did a compile, it used video memory as plain ol' memory. The result was you could watch the compile as it went. Best blinkenlights I ever saw. But it still didn't have toggle switches. Only machine I ever got to use that had toggle switches was a DCC-116 (DG Nova clone). -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### Message-ID: <3C1AF092.55B73758@hawaga.org.uk> From: Ben Clifford Organization: HAWAGA.ORG.UK X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> <9vce54$245$1@panix3.panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 X-Trace: /KHlxIZ/VGwHUcFcJI47iA1lRBHpfNvDJG+GujIXk/Zvdd2aUpKF3VpH8SoJOOtM9xRhqXsy2jlj!e257R4Gr9xNho70WZTlo9265oDTsYaETakr4Rkrq5Y+nZPX7vj4IshJcqv15qvA4c7c= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:41:24 GMT Distribution: world Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:41:24 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!paloalto-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96651 Jeff Jonas wrote: > I wish that user-programmable displays had caught on. > Some PCs and small servers had 8-16 character displays on the front panel, > which would've been great for debugging. > > I remember seeing tiny PCs (usually network devices) > with an LCD and a few buttons in the drive bay > so it operated with no kybd or console. You can still get those - I saw a web-page selling them only the other week. Servers such as the Cobalt RaQ, which are designed for use without a local screen & keyboard also have such displays. > The only program I remember writing on the Callan Unistar > was to flash the 8 leds in nice patterns. That's always a good way to impress wannabe computer experts - write a little LED Disco program. The program itself is usually pretty simple, but the knowledge of how to actually change the LEDs is pretty much restricted to complete geeks :-) -- Ben Clifford benc@hawaga.org.uk http://www.hawaga.org.uk/ben/ GPG: 30F06950 ###### From: nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:48:36 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Around here? Lines: 51 Message-ID: <9vero3$r3u$1@knossos.btinternet.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1176.748T2177T7505598@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-109-99.btinternet.com X-Trace: knossos.btinternet.com 1008398916 27774 213.1.109.99 (15 Dec 2001 06:48:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@knossos.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:48:36 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Xnews/4.04.17tea Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96765 "Charlie Gibbs" wrote in <1176.748T2177T7505598 @sky.bus.com>: > In article > howard@shubs.net (Howard S Shubs) writes: >> >> In article <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >>> Yea, I know :-(. I was standing in line some place and somehow >>> the woman, next to me, and I started talking about bed sheets. >>> I made the comment that I only bought white because it went >>> with everything. She looked at me like I'd just grown an extra >>> head and informed me that one should change color schemes of >>> every room in the house four times a year. The woman who was >>> on the other side of the counter and I looked at each other; >>> we both knew that we were thinking, "It must be nice to have >>> so much free time to waste." >> >> And money, too. And the woman on the other side of the counter was also thinking: this loon keeps me in a job! > > Yeah, but at least those people are keeping The Economy going. :-/ > > One sign that our society has undergone a rather nasty paradigm shift > is that what were once "customers" are now called "consumers". > Damn, you hit one of my buttons: consumers != customers clients != passengers human resources != personnel department Or more generally, *PEOPLE ARE NOT PLUG-IN UNITS* Thank you. -- I have a quantum car. Every time I look at the speedometer I get lost... barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:19:42 +0100 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 13 Message-ID: <20011215081942.748ea19b.steveo@eircom.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1176.748T2177T7505598@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p0844.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 1008403221 61799 194.134.202.81 (15 Dec 2001 08:00:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:00:21 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.6.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96757 On 14 Dec 01 12:30:43 -0800 "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: CG> One sign that our society has undergone a rather nasty paradigm shift CG> is that what were once "customers" are now called "consumers". Anyone for coffiest ? -- C:>WIN | Directable Mirrors The computer obeys and wins. |A Better Way To Focus The Sun You lose and Bill collects. | licenses available - see: | http://www.sohara.org/ ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:27:54 +0100 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 27 Message-ID: <20011215082754.15558871.steveo@eircom.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> <581.748T1208T7324297@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p0844.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 1008403222 61799 194.134.202.81 (15 Dec 2001 08:00:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:00:22 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.6.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96736 On 14 Dec 01 12:12:24 -0800 "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: CG> In article <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> steveo@eircom.net CG> (Steve O'Hara-Smith) writes: CG> CG> > Engineers that lose sight of the real goals are the ones that CG> >are not very good. CG> CG> If the "real goal" is to sell lots of units to lusers who are seduced CG> by flashy but useless designs, a good engineer might well be faced CG> with a career decision. It will help if management is honest to the engineer and explains that this is the real goal. All to often the goal is explained as 'make a better one of these than the competition do' and only towards the end is all the carefully designed functionality stripped in favour of some crudely slapped on pretties. Now if the engineer was told from the start "make it pretty and almost useful so we can sell an upgrade", if the engineer also lacked principles - then something large, cosmetically overengineered and slmost but not quite useful would result - hmm I think I see an example. -- C:>WIN | Directable Mirrors The computer obeys and wins. |A Better Way To Focus The Sun You lose and Bill collects. | licenses available - see: | http://www.sohara.org/ ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:41:51 +0100 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 21 Message-ID: <20011215084151.4977a3c2.steveo@eircom.net> References: <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <869.748T836T7344053@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p0844.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 1008403225 61799 194.134.202.81 (15 Dec 2001 08:00:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:00:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.6.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!195.158.233.21!news1.ebone.net!news.ebone.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96749 On 14 Dec 01 12:14:16 -0800 "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: CG> In article cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk CG> (Chris Hedley) writes: CG> >I remember seeing a programme about that thing. Big, ugly bugger that CG> >grew as big as it fancied because it was freeloading off whichever CG> >tree it had attached itself to, and apparently smelt even worse than CG> >it looked, which is a feat in itself. CG> CG> Sort of like the government? Brilliant. Revolution: Garbage collection for governments ? -- C:>WIN | Directable Mirrors The computer obeys and wins. |A Better Way To Focus The Sun You lose and Bill collects. | licenses available - see: | http://www.sohara.org/ ###### From: stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1176.748T2177T7505598@sky.bus.com> Organization: Metropolis Grafix Reply-To: stanb@dial.pipex.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Date: 15 Dec 2001 09:00:53 GMT Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62-190-203-111.pdu.pipex.net X-Trace: 1008406853 news.dial.pipex.com 8509 62.190.203.111 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!btnet-peer!btnet!lnewspeer01.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!lnewspost00.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96655 On 14 Dec 01 12:30:43 -0800, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >In article >howard@shubs.net (Howard S Shubs) writes: >> >>In article <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >>> Yea, I know :-(. I was standing in line some place and somehow >>> the woman, next to me, and I started talking about bed sheets. >>> I made the comment that I only bought white because it went >>> with everything. She looked at me like I'd just grown an extra >>> head and informed me that one should change color schemes of >>> every room in the house four times a year. The woman who was >>> on the other side of the counter and I looked at each other; >>> we both knew that we were thinking, "It must be nice to have >>> so much free time to waste." >> >>And money, too. > >Yeah, but at least those people are keeping The Economy going. :-/ > >One sign that our society has undergone a rather nasty paradigm shift >is that what were once "customers" are now called "consumers". Who someone defined as "gullets" - whose sole function in life is to gulp down product and cr*p out cash... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 03:57:45 -0600 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 12 Message-ID: <1g7m1usmkput2b811o2fj5f5i2770rc9g3@4ax.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C1ADA85.7638B312@gazonk.del> <1bu1utf1ev.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZWtv04JIviNARkqPJ2E/lOI4+3GVolxdEL9QXLsJvREWaDIv2XSrGn X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Dec 2001 09:57:50 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96779 On 14 Dec 2001 23:22:16 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >But it still didn't have toggle switches. Only machine I ever got to >use that had toggle switches was a DCC-116 (DG Nova clone). There is one of those downstairs in a rack, if you feel like playing with the switches :-) (always assuming the PS doesn't blow on power-up) -- Arargh (at arargh dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vfeq2$d55$11@bob.news.rcn.net> Subject: Re: Blinking lights Lines: 74 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2479.0006 Message-ID: <3zHS7.34758$DO.4168886@news20.bellglobal.com> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:45:57 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.93.111.175 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1008420159 65.93.111.175 (Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:42:39 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:42:39 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news1.tor.metronet.ca!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96770 wrote in message news:9vfeq2$d55$11@bob.news.rcn.net... > In article , > "Donald Tees" wrote: > > wrote in message news:9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net... > >> In article <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net>, > >> Charles Richmond wrote: > >> >J Ahlstrom wrote: > >> >> > >> >> According to groups.google.com the real letter is > >> >> > >> >> MEMORANDUM > >> >> > >> >> August 28, 1963 > >> >> > >> >> Memorandum To: Messrs. A. L. Williams > >> >> T. V. Learson > >> >> H. W. Miller, Jr. > >> >> E. R. Piore > >> >> O. M. Scott > >> >> M. B. Smith > >> >> A. K. Watson > >> >> > >> >> Last week CDC had a press conference during which they officially > >> >> announced their 6600 system. I understand that in the laboratory > >> >> developing this system there are only 34 people, "including the > >> >> janitor." Of these, 14 are engineers and 4 are programmers, and > >> >> only one person has a PhD., a relatively junior programmer. To > >> >> the outsider, the laboratory appeared to be cost concious, hard > >> >> working, and highly motivated. > >> >> > >> >> Contrasting this modest effort with our own vast development > >> >> activities, I fail to understand why we have lost our industry > >> >> leadership by letting someone else offer the world's most > >> >> powerful computer. At Jenny Lake, I think top priority should > >> >> be given to a discussionas to what we are doing wrong and how we > >> >> should go about changing it immediately. > >> >> > >> >> T. J. Watson, Jr. > >> >> > >> >> TJW,Jr:jmc > >> >> cc: Mr. W. B. McWhirter > >> >> > >> >And supposedly when Seymour Cray saw this memo, he said: > >> > > >> >"I think that Mr. Watson has answered his own question." > >> > >> Right. One of the reasons VMS took so damned long to get > >> useful was too many cooks. TOPS-20 had 10-12 people; they > >> took a long time to get anything done. Nobody could agree > >> on the functional specs, let alone the design specs. > >> > >> I can't imagine efficient source control with a development > >> group of 200 people. They'ld be tripping all over each other. > >> > >> /BAH > >> > > I once heard a quote to the effect that "anything worthwhile has always > >been done by a solitary starving artist in a garret". I have no idea > from > >whence it came, but it always struck me as having a lot of truth in it. > > I disagree. The ideal number of people is 3. Two to do the > work of the implementation and the third to ensure sanity > checks. > Perhaps. A large pizza distributes better, and it can certainly help to bounce ideas arround. Notice I said "a lot of truth", not the only truth. Donald ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:07:24 -0500 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-785.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Mail-Copies-To: nobody Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96788 In article <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net>, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > In computing X11 is elegant and Windows XP is pretty, which is the > better engineered ? Tough one. Perhaps you could pick less ambiguous items to compare. :-. > success stories are achieved with beauty. The flower is a bad example - it > has attractiveness as a major requirement. Now tell me about the beauty No, it works pretty well. The part about "attractiveness" is a less-than-specific term. It doesn't mean "pretty" in the sense of "humans have to like it", as we don't (generally) pollinate the things. A flower has to be -attractive- to -insects-. Different insects are attracted by different things, so plants use different methods to attract them. Flower that are attractive to bees appear to be attractive to humans too. We seem to share a bee's esthetics. We do -not- share a fly's ethetics. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" Golf vs Bug: VW has been cutting corners ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Allodoxaphobia Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C1ADA85.7638B312@gazonk.del> Reply-To: If You Reply Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.2 (Linux) Date: 15 Dec 2001 17:55:39 GMT Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.105.232.12 X-Trace: 1008438939 reader2.ash.ops.us.uu.net 3886 63.105.232.12 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!wn4feed!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!198.6.0.7!uunet!ash.uu.net!spool0900.news.uu.net!reader0902.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96780 On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 05:06:51 GMT, Foobar T. Clown scribbled: > "MSCHAEF.COM" wrote: >> >> Blinking lights used to be useful, didn't they? I guess it'd be more >> of a challenge to implement old style lights/switches on a 1GHz chip >> though. > > There was a brief moment in history when some computers put the blinen- > lights on the screen. ZOC, a Really Kewl terminal program that I use under OS/2 (and, ok, there's a WinDoze version, too.) has 4 Blinken Lites: Carrier Detect, Rcv Data, Xmit Data, and a ZOC-specific multi-colored mode "LED". The RD and TD lights really do blink as data flows in/out of ZOC. Jonesy -- | Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | OS/2 | Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | linux __ | 7,703' -- 2,345m | frontier.net | DM68mn SK ###### Message-ID: <3C1B9110.32F4B601@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 11 X-Trace: /wsFG3jFJxkquAK0mg9MR9KtJpda/WRFhA84gxloOnhU7nRA/VtYt4C2/Ld2V/e2iuuuM2utuT+2!co6t02ncTYE0ttMuzQND5+xA1RC09iZ2fMX+BA67NbPyhm7hrxGQQAActOCtkadbeA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:05:34 GMT Distribution: world Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:05:34 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!feedwest.news.agis.net!aleron.net!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!paloalto-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96629 Howard S Shubs wrote: > > [...] Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > > In computing X11 is elegant and Windows XP is pretty, which is the > > better engineered ? > > Tough one. Perhaps you could pick less ambiguous items to compare. NeXTStep OS and Display Postscript window system. Now assimilated into Mac OS X. ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:42:52 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 15 Message-ID: <9vg5jb$7lh$1@paris.btinternet.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C1ADA85.7638B312@gazonk.del> <1bu1utf1ev.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-200-160.btinternet.com X-Trace: paris.btinternet.com 1008441772 7857 213.122.200.160 (15 Dec 2001 18:42:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@paris.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:42:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96744 Joe Pfeiffer wrote in message news:1bu1utf1ev.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu... [SNIP] > the UCSD P-System. Very cool; when you did a compile, it used video > memory as plain ol' memory. The result was you could watch the > compile as it went. Best blinkenlights I ever saw. Sounds great ! I did a similar thing with the BBC Micro. Excellent fun. :) Cheers, Rupert ###### Message-ID: <3C1B99CA.76CB7ED0@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C1ADA85.7638B312@gazonk.del> <1bu1utf1ev.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 X-Trace: /bdhN9UK+T9Cb861fQ+yeNMbsl4LZH5wmLMYLCbbdSoU7F8FmcGCMDmly56L1V0zcepRrDKTFtLQ!QC0cXek1x5DkpZ322C3ugIOG1sokWg1XDPTcXajn38+3E0HD8lMCR5Af3IPZ5OzryA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@gtei.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:43:39 GMT Distribution: world Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:43:41 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!paloalto-snr2.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96639 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > [...] > I *think* the machine I saw that was like that was a Terak (basically > a PDP-11 with a floppy disk, built into a bit-mapped display) running > the UCSD P-System. Very cool; when you did a compile, it used video > memory as plain ol' memory. The result was you could watch the > compile as it went. Best blinkenlights I ever saw. Cool! I never knew there was more than one computer system that did THAT. The other one -- the one I knew about -- was the POS(*) operating system for Perq workstations. There was a malloc()-like system call which accepted two arguments. The first arg was the total number of bytes you wanted to allocate, and the second arg was the number of pixel rows that the OS was allowed steal from the bottom of the video frame buffer (if necessary) to satisfy the request. AFAIK, there were two commonly used programs that called the malloc routine with a non-zero second arg. One was the Pascal compiler, and the other was "Scavenger" (The put-the-file-system-back-together-after-a-crash utility.) -- Foo! (*) Rumor has it that the marketing department at Three Rivers Computer Corporation heard that the engineers were calling the operating system POS, and they just ASSUMED that POS stood for Perq Operating System. Rumor has it that that assumption was not entirely correct. Fond Rememberies: The Perq Pascal compiler changed the mouse cursor to a cartoon bumble-bee, and caused it to buzz erratically about the screen while the compiler was working. Scavenger did the same thing, but it showed a cartoon vulture instead. ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:55:18 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 17 Message-ID: <9vg6ah$687$1@knossos.btinternet.com> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-200-160.btinternet.com X-Trace: knossos.btinternet.com 1008442518 6407 213.122.200.160 (15 Dec 2001 18:55:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@knossos.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:55:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-peer1!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96759 Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote in message news:uk7vppxi2.fsf@earthlink.net... > jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > imagine 200-300 working on just the specs ... who couldn't agree or in > the case of FS possibly 1200 .... it never gets out of the spec phase. I get the feeling the IA-64 is going this way... 3 bunches of Engineers, HP, Intel and now Digital Err Compaq's Alpha team (or so we're led to believe). 10 years of design to produce a high power consumption, medium performance and high cost processor... That team must be feeling very low, poor sods. Cheers, Rupert ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sun, 16 Dec 01 12:14:45 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9viagg$oqf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vg6ah$687$1@knossos.btinternet.com> <9vgl9k$4lt$1@panix1.panix.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVb3vmFql1D9Ox1QG2ccUG+BxbEDwx9+5QoUcm6Lj8hjcCcZkkCSx31F X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Dec 2001 14:18:56 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-169 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96848 In article <9vgl9k$4lt$1@panix1.panix.com>, johnf@panix.com (John Francis) wrote: >In article <9vg6ah$687$1@knossos.btinternet.com>, >Rupert Pigott wrote: >>Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote in message >>news:uk7vppxi2.fsf@earthlink.net... >>> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >>> imagine 200-300 working on just the specs ... who couldn't agree or in >>> the case of FS possibly 1200 .... it never gets out of the spec phase. >> >>I get the feeling the IA-64 is going this way... 3 bunches of Engineers, HP, >>Intel and now Digital Err Compaq's Alpha team (or so we're led to believe). > >Don't forget some of those HP engineers were picked up from apollo ... I hadn't realized it was that bad. Add to the mix higher level management who can't make a decision and stick with it... hey! It's 1983 all over again. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:04:35 -0500 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 21 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> <3C1B9110.32F4B601@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-444.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Mail-Copies-To: nobody Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96886 In article <3C1B9110.32F4B601@gazonk.del>, "Foobar T. Clown" wrote: > Howard S Shubs wrote: > > > > [...] Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > > > > In computing X11 is elegant and Windows XP is pretty, which is the > > > better engineered ? > > > > Tough one. Perhaps you could pick less ambiguous items to compare. > > NeXTStep OS and Display Postscript window system. Now assimilated into > Mac OS X. Let's cross them. Display Postscript is dead, as far as I know. Let's draw the comparison between NeXTstep and Windows XP. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" Golf vs Bug: VW has been cutting corners ###### From: johnf@panix.com (John Francis) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 15 Dec 2001 18:03:55 -0500 Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp. Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9vgksr$4cg$1@panix1.panix.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C1ADA85.7638B312@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix1.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 1008457436 1916 166.84.1.1 (15 Dec 2001 23:03:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Dec 2001 23:03:56 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!panix!news.panix.com!panix1.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96843 In article <3C1ADA85.7638B312@gazonk.del>, Foobar T. Clown wrote: >"MSCHAEF.COM" wrote: >> >> Blinking lights used to be useful, didn't they? I guess it'd be more >> of a challenge to implement old style lights/switches on a 1GHz chip >> though. > >There was a brief moment in history when some computers put the blinen- >lights on the screen. I remember a couple of different "graphics >workstations" where certain operating system routines (e.g., page fault >handler, disk interrupt, network interrupt) would write directly to two >or four words of video memory to show when they were being called. Perq >workstations come to mind, and maybe the Symbolics and/or LMI lisp >machines. I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one other. Could it have >been one of the Xerox machines? I dunno. You could do this sort of thing on an apollo DN100, too. ###### From: johnf@panix.com (John Francis) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 15 Dec 2001 18:10:44 -0500 Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp. Lines: 12 Message-ID: <9vgl9k$4lt$1@panix1.panix.com> References: <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vg6ah$687$1@knossos.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix1.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 1008457845 2017 166.84.1.1 (15 Dec 2001 23:10:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Dec 2001 23:10:45 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!panix!news.panix.com!panix1.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96836 In article <9vg6ah$687$1@knossos.btinternet.com>, Rupert Pigott wrote: >Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote in message >news:uk7vppxi2.fsf@earthlink.net... >> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >> imagine 200-300 working on just the specs ... who couldn't agree or in >> the case of FS possibly 1200 .... it never gets out of the spec phase. > >I get the feeling the IA-64 is going this way... 3 bunches of Engineers, HP, >Intel and now Digital Err Compaq's Alpha team (or so we're led to believe). Don't forget some of those HP engineers were picked up from apollo ... ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:29:00 +0100 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 33 Message-ID: <20011216102900.5a5a35d5.steveo@eircom.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1324.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 1008500546 30300 194.134.170.49 (16 Dec 2001 11:02:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:02:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.6.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96879 On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:07:24 -0500 Howard S Shubs wrote: HSS> In article <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net>, HSS> Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: HSS> HSS> > In computing X11 is elegant and Windows XP is pretty, which is the HSS> > better engineered ? HSS> HSS> Tough one. Perhaps you could pick less ambiguous items to compare. :-. HSS> HSS> HSS> > success stories are achieved with beauty. The flower is a bad example - it HSS> > has attractiveness as a major requirement. Now tell me about the beauty HSS> HSS> No, it works pretty well. The part about "attractiveness" is a Not in support of an argument that beauty is an essential consequence of good engineering. Flowers are pretty because they have being attractive as a goal - OK it is a coincidence that we share a common view of pretty with the target of the attractiveness. Roots are not pretty and no attempt is made to make them so because *nothing* has to be attracted to them. HSS> seem to share a bee's esthetics. We do -not- share a fly's ethetics. True enough - but my main point was that prettiness is only good engineering if it is also a requirement. -- C:>WIN | Directable Mirrors The computer obeys and wins. |A Better Way To Focus The Sun You lose and Bill collects. | licenses available - see: | http://www.sohara.org/ ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 14:28:35 -0500 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> <20011216102900.5a5a35d5.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-567.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Mail-Copies-To: nobody Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96889 In article <20011216102900.5a5a35d5.steveo@eircom.net>, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > HSS> No, it works pretty well. The part about "attractiveness" is a > > Not in support of an argument that beauty is an essential consequence > of good engineering. We're going to have to agree to disagree until you see my point. > Flowers are pretty because they have being attractive as a goal My point about that is that "attractive" is a litteral word. Flowers try to attract critters which will serve their needs. What humans consider "attractive" is irrelevant to this. Drawing absolutes from biological examples is fraught with danger, since there are almost certainly other critters which contradict just about anything you want to say. Another point: analogies are slippery things. Reason by analogy, expect someone to come along to punch holes in your argument. - OK it is a coincidence that we share a common view of pretty with > the target of the attractiveness. Roots are not pretty and no attempt is > made to make them so because *nothing* has to be attracted to them. Again, depends on your point of view. There are parasites which are attracted by roots. > True enough - but my main point was that prettiness is only good > engineering if it is also a requirement. Elegance tends to also be attractive, at least to those open to it. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" Golf vs Bug: VW has been cutting corners ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:02:12 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 36 Message-ID: <9viuk4$lf6$1@paris.btinternet.com> References: <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vg6ah$687$1@knossos.btinternet.com> <9vgl9k$4lt$1@panix1.panix.com> <9viagg$oqf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-132-213.btinternet.com X-Trace: paris.btinternet.com 1008532932 21990 213.1.132.213 (16 Dec 2001 20:02:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@paris.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:02:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96873 wrote in message news:9viagg$oqf$3@bob.news.rcn.net... > In article <9vgl9k$4lt$1@panix1.panix.com>, > johnf@panix.com (John Francis) wrote: > >In article <9vg6ah$687$1@knossos.btinternet.com>, > >Rupert Pigott wrote: > >>Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote in message > >>news:uk7vppxi2.fsf@earthlink.net... > >>> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >>> imagine 200-300 working on just the specs ... who couldn't agree or in > >>> the case of FS possibly 1200 .... it never gets out of the spec phase. > >> > >>I get the feeling the IA-64 is going this way... 3 bunches of Engineers, > HP, > >>Intel and now Digital Err Compaq's Alpha team (or so we're led to > believe). > > > >Don't forget some of those HP engineers were picked up from apollo ... > > I hadn't realized it was that bad. Add to the mix higher > level management who can't make a decision and stick with it... > hey! It's 1983 all over again. Actually if it were politically possible it would be a good thing if INTEL set up say 5 independant teams with people allocated by a Tombola. From that they could produce at least 3 viable architectures and then fab 3 prototypes of each, benchmark em and pick the best... I'd say that would take around 2 years and about the same amount of money. I'm wondering if INTEL's recompile if you want performance upgrade path will reduce resistance to this anyways... Could be a good thing for competition in the end. :) Cheers, Rupert ###### From: genew@mail.ocis.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:30:52 GMT Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <3c1d0b74.13419882@news.ocis.net> Reply-To: genew@mail.ocis.net References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1176.748T2177T7505598@sky.bus.com> <20011215081942.748ea19b.steveo@eircom.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96899 Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >On 14 Dec 01 12:30:43 -0800 >"Charlie Gibbs" wrote: > >CG> One sign that our society has undergone a rather nasty paradigm shift >CG> is that what were once "customers" are now called "consumers". > > Anyone for coffiest ? Or a Moke? Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/S ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Mon, 17 Dec 01 09:59:03 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9vkmua$5mi$7@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net><9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net><9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> <581.748T1208T7324297@sky.bus.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZnP61XkV1oCnovNt3pLW3bF6iDxlMGl4l51VxQwWsp5aWtAMn8Y3Y3 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Dec 2001 12:03:22 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-152 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96921 In article <581.748T1208T7324297@sky.bus.com>, "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >In article <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> steveo@eircom.net >(Steve O'Hara-Smith) writes: > >> Engineers that lose sight of the real goals are the ones that >>are not very good. > >If the "real goal" is to sell lots of units to lusers who are seduced >by flashy but useless designs, a good engineer might well be faced >with a career decision. > IME, those were managers who started out as engineers but, on the way to the suit store, acquired a lobotomy. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Mon, 17 Dec 01 10:03:24 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 32 Message-ID: <9vkn6g$5mi$8@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vfeq2$d55$11@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C1DE855.B265C106@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYhXGtIk1almtNh96CSygGiF+x+BU2tVO7Ps8lysWCDWlFLCxp76oLf X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Dec 2001 12:07:44 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!opentransit.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-152 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96916 In article <3C1DE855.B265C106@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> In article , >> "Donald Tees" wrote: >> > >> > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> >> > I once heard a quote to the effect that "anything worthwhile has always >> > been done by a solitary starving artist in a garret". I have no idea >> > from whence it came, but it always struck me as having a lot of truth >> > in it. >> >> I disagree. The ideal number of people is 3. Two to do the >> work of the implementation and the third to ensure sanity >> checks. >> >On his film series titled "Civilization", the British art historian >(Sir?) Kenneth Clark was standing in a huge room at the palace in >Versaille (sp?) and said: "No great thoughts ever came from people >who were in large rooms." Or something like that... This relates >to the "starving artist" quote above. > There is some truth to that. However, it's due to being able to shout over the wall and get an immediate response. Saves a ton of time...and is a good meeting-prevention tool. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Alistair Gale Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:01:07 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4ekq1u010ib9qv8m8ebgnrtgjd0hsjahmv@4ax.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1176.748T2177T7505598@sky.bus.com> <20011215081942.748ea19b.steveo@eircom.net> <3c1d0b74.13419882@news.ocis.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-032.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.553 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96968 On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:30:52 GMT, genew@mail.ocis.net (Gene Wirchenko) wrote: >Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > >>On 14 Dec 01 12:30:43 -0800 >>"Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >> >>CG> One sign that our society has undergone a rather nasty paradigm shift >>CG> is that what were once "customers" are now called "consumers". >> >> Anyone for coffiest ? > > Or a Moke? > Make mine a Mokie-Koke and some Bredd to go. Beware of Veenies pushing Gnu-Linux! -- alistair ###### Message-ID: <3C1DE855.B265C106@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vfeq2$d55$11@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: MRjT7-193116-Kg2-1396523@rwcrnsc51 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc51 1008586008 MRjT7-193116-Kg2-1396523@rwcrnsc51 (Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:46:48 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:46:48 GMT Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:46:48 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!wn1feed!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc51.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96951 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article , > "Donald Tees" wrote: > > > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > > I once heard a quote to the effect that "anything worthwhile has always > > been done by a solitary starving artist in a garret". I have no idea > > from whence it came, but it always struck me as having a lot of truth > > in it. > > I disagree. The ideal number of people is 3. Two to do the > work of the implementation and the third to ensure sanity > checks. > On his film series titled "Civilization", the British art historian (Sir?) Kenneth Clark was standing in a huge room at the palace in Versaille (sp?) and said: "No great thoughts ever came from people who were in large rooms." Or something like that... This relates to the "starving artist" quote above. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3C1DE941.532E721B@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vg6ah$687$1@knossos.btinternet.com> <9vgl9k$4lt$1@panix1.panix.com> <9viagg$oqf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9viuk4$lf6$1@paris.btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 44 NNTP-Posting-Host: Q3kT7-182024-X94-542365@rwcrnsc52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc52 1008586244 Q3kT7-182024-X94-542365@rwcrnsc52 (Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:50:44 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:50:44 GMT Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:50:44 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.204!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!rwcrnsc52.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96950 Rupert Pigott wrote: > > wrote in message news:9viagg$oqf$3@bob.news.rcn.net... > > In article <9vgl9k$4lt$1@panix1.panix.com>, > > johnf@panix.com (John Francis) wrote: > > >In article <9vg6ah$687$1@knossos.btinternet.com>, > > >Rupert Pigott wrote: > > >>Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote in message > > >>news:uk7vppxi2.fsf@earthlink.net... > > >>> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > > >>> imagine 200-300 working on just the specs ... who couldn't agree or in > > >>> the case of FS possibly 1200 .... it never gets out of the spec phase. > > >> > > >>I get the feeling the IA-64 is going this way... 3 bunches of Engineers, > > HP, > > >>Intel and now Digital Err Compaq's Alpha team (or so we're led to > > believe). > > > > > >Don't forget some of those HP engineers were picked up from apollo ... > > > > I hadn't realized it was that bad. Add to the mix higher > > level management who can't make a decision and stick with it... > > hey! It's 1983 all over again. > > Actually if it were politically possible it would be a good thing if INTEL > set up say 5 independant teams with people allocated by a Tombola. From that > they could produce at least 3 viable architectures and then fab 3 prototypes > of each, benchmark em and pick the best... I'd say that would take around 2 > years and about the same amount of money. > "If seven maids with seven mops Swept it for half a year. Do you suppose," the Walrus said, "That they could get it clear?" "I doubt it," said the Carpenter, And shed a bitter tear. ...with apologies to Lewis Carroll... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: tmm@spamfilter.asns.tr.unisys.com (Tim McCaffrey) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:10:19 +0000 (UTC) Organization: A series networking Lines: 35 Message-ID: <9vlfur$gb7$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vd8n6$1ck$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> <9vfetv$d55$12@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.63.212.94 X-Trace: trsvr.tr.unisys.com 1008616219 16743 192.63.212.94 (17 Dec 2001 19:10:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@trsvr.tr.unisys.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:10:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!bbnews1.unisys.com!trsvr.tr.unisys.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96936 In article <9vfetv$d55$12@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com says... > >In article <9vd8n6$1ck$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com>, > tmm@spamfilter.asns.tr.unisys.com (Tim McCaffrey) wrote: >>In article <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com says... >> >>>I can't imagine efficient source control with a development >>>group of 200 people. They'ld be tripping all over each other. >>> >>Trust me, it is possible, but you need something more sophisticated than >>simple file check in/check out. (Yes, I do configuration management >tools). > >I know it's getting done. My point was _sources_. With source >control tools, source freeze is no longer meaningful. It is >really update freeze. > Well, so was I. The trick is to have your source control support multiple changes in progress and have good control of what changes get included. It is possible, we have been doing it for years. The rest of the world seems to be stuck on Unix source control (the file check in/check out I mentioned) and diffs, a combination that really doesn't support large projects, although breaking things up into zillions of tiny files sometimes helps (it localizes the damage, anyway). You may be asking, if this is so great why don't we port it to Unix? Well, it relies on couple of things that Unix does not have: 1) A series DMSII (proprietary database system), 2) Line numbers, 3) fixed length records (as a standard way to store source) and 4) (not so much) file searching in the OS, instead of the application. These differences are so completely at odds with the way Windows/Unix do things, it really would require a different way of attacking the problem. - Tim ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Tue, 18 Dec 01 10:55:36 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 64 Message-ID: <9vnekp$r9i$4@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vd8n6$1ck$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> <9vfetv$d55$12@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vlfur$gb7$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaMiaDh63vRHD6BNk8ti3/Wer2fzrs718JJEemci1TgnlfE2kiQ/hoz X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Dec 2001 13:00:09 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-242 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97008 In article <9vlfur$gb7$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com>, tmm@spamfilter.asns.tr.unisys.com (Tim McCaffrey) wrote: >In article <9vfetv$d55$12@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com says... >> >>In article <9vd8n6$1ck$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com>, >> tmm@spamfilter.asns.tr.unisys.com (Tim McCaffrey) wrote: >>>In article <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com says... >>> >>>>I can't imagine efficient source control with a development >>>>group of 200 people. They'ld be tripping all over each other. >>>> >>>Trust me, it is possible, but you need something more sophisticated than >>>simple file check in/check out. (Yes, I do configuration management >>tools). >> >>I know it's getting done. My point was _sources_. With source >>control tools, source freeze is no longer meaningful. It is >>really update freeze. >> >Well, so was I. The trick is to have your source control support multiple >changes in progress and have good control of what changes get included. >It is possible, we have been doing it for years. I'm not questioning the possibility; I'm not questioning the advantages. I am questioning the ability to reproduce EXEs from a known set of sources without having to reproduce those sources. This method, in my definition, is not source control. There are _no_ sources, just an edit history! If you ever lose the processor that "chooses" edits, the sources of a well-defined date or revision level are gone because they never existed! >The rest of the world seems to be >stuck on Unix source control (the file check in/check out I mentioned) and >diffs, a combination that really doesn't support large projects, although >breaking things up into zillions of tiny files sometimes helps (it >localizes the damage, anyway). Files should be broken up into code that must be in core all at once. I think file organization has become a tad mussed up. Just taking a look at the mess on my disk of Misoft, tells me that these people didn't think at all about memory and product management. > >You may be asking, if this is so great why don't we port it to Unix? Well, it >relies on couple of things that Unix does not have: 1) A series DMSII >(proprietary database system), 2) Line numbers, 3) fixed length records (as a >standard way to store source) and 4) (not so much) file searching in the OS, >instead of the application. These differences are so completely at odds with >the way Windows/Unix do things, it really would require a different way of >attacking the problem. I never once suggested that you abandon your method in favor of the way Unix is getting done. I'm saying that you have a huge big potential of getting Murphy'ed. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 13 Dec 2001 18:15:33 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 14 Message-ID: <9var85$as1$1@top.mitre.org> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> <815.745T1093T9794094@sky.bus.com> <3C17897B.97582CEF@hawaga.org.uk> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 1008267333 11137 128.29.114.13 (13 Dec 2001 18:15:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 18:15:33 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!newstransit.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96985 Ben Clifford writes: >There is a moon button and an envelope button, but pushing them doesn't >make the lights change (I'm not even really sure what is getting sent to >the PC at all when I push these (or any of the 16 other extra keys >[3])). If it's like all the other cursed-with-extra-toy-buttons keyboards I've seen, the new buttons just send otherwise unassigned scan codes to the keyboard controller on the system board. If you don't have software installed that watches for and responds to these new codes they're just ignored. Joe Morris ###### Message-ID: <3C1E8AD8.C135CAAA@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1176.748T2177T7505598@sky.bus.com> <9vero3$r3u$1@knossos.btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: G7uT7-240824-MM5-1285406@rwcrnsc53 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc53 1008627611 G7uT7-240824-MM5-1285406@rwcrnsc53 (Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:20:11 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:20:11 GMT Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:20:11 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc53.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97059 Neil Barnes wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > Or more generally, *PEOPLE ARE NOT PLUG-IN UNITS* > It's obvious that you are *not* familiar with the armed forces People are *not* plug-in units...except in the armed forces. In the army or navy, you have a designation...like Illustrator Tech 4 or some such...and you can replace any other illustator Tech 4 in the army or navy. You become an interchangeable part... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: D.J. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:38:42 -0600 Distribution: world Reply-To: djim55@cheesydatasync.com Message-ID: <0tss1u00rbqqn0kjjeu3bfq2f9u1jsv62v@4ax.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1176.748T2177T7505598@sky.bus.com> <9vero3$r3u$1@knossos.btinternet.com> <3C1E8AD8.C135CAAA@ev1.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: msp1-134.datasync.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: msp1-134.datasync.com X-Trace: news.bnb-lp.com 1008628788 msp1-134.datasync.com (17 Dec 2001 17:39:48 -0500) Organization: BnB, L.P. - send abuse complaints to abuse@bnb-lp.com Lines: 24 X-Authenticated-User: jim Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!news.bnb-lp.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97061 Charles Richmond wrote: []Neil Barnes wrote: []> []> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] []> []> Or more generally, *PEOPLE ARE NOT PLUG-IN UNITS* []> []It's obvious that you are *not* familiar with the armed forces []People are *not* plug-in units...except in the armed forces. []In the army or navy, you have a designation...like Illustrator []Tech 4 or some such...and you can replace any other illustator []Tech 4 in the army or navy. You become an interchangeable part... I disagree. I was an electronic tech. Even amongst the ones who were the same rank I was, ETR3, the skill sets were not the same. Nor the ability to find the problem. JimP. -- djim55 at tyhe datasync dot com. Disclaimer: Standard. Updated: September 2, 2001 http://www.drivein.crosswinds.net/ Drive-In Movie Theatres Registered Linux user#185746 ###### Message-ID: <3C1E913B.378CDF94@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1176.748T2177T7505598@sky.bus.com> <9vero3$r3u$1@knossos.btinternet.com> <3C1E8AD8.C135CAAA@ev1.net> <0tss1u00rbqqn0kjjeu3bfq2f9u1jsv62v@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Host: rfuT7-243542-Kg2-1514379@rwcrnsc51 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc51 1008629245 rfuT7-243542-Kg2-1514379@rwcrnsc51 (Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:47:25 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:47:25 GMT Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:47:25 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!wn4feed!wn2feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc51.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97055 "D.J." wrote: > > Charles Richmond wrote: > []Neil Barnes wrote: > []> > []> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > []> > []> Or more generally, *PEOPLE ARE NOT PLUG-IN UNITS* > []> > []It's obvious that you are *not* familiar with the armed forces > []People are *not* plug-in units...except in the armed forces. > []In the army or navy, you have a designation...like Illustrator > []Tech 4 or some such...and you can replace any other illustator > []Tech 4 in the army or navy. You become an interchangeable part... > > I disagree. I was an electronic tech. Even amongst the ones who were > the same rank I was, ETR3, the skill sets were not the same. Nor the > ability to find the problem. > Maybe your skill sets were different...but you would be placed according to your designation regardless. At least, that was my understanding of how things are done... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: genew@mail.ocis.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:24:11 GMT Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <3c1e7b38.23788974@news.ocis.net> Reply-To: genew@mail.ocis.net References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1176.748T2177T7505598@sky.bus.com> <20011215081942.748ea19b.steveo@eircom.net> <3c1d0b74.13419882@news.ocis.net> <4ekq1u010ib9qv8m8ebgnrtgjd0hsjahmv@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 31 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96993 Alistair Gale wrote: >On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:30:52 GMT, genew@mail.ocis.net (Gene Wirchenko) >wrote: > >>Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >> >>>On 14 Dec 01 12:30:43 -0800 >>>"Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >>> >>>CG> One sign that our society has undergone a rather nasty paradigm shift >>>CG> is that what were once "customers" are now called "consumers". >>> >>> Anyone for coffiest ? >> >> Or a Moke? >Make mine a Mokie-Koke and some Bredd to go. Beware of Veenies >pushing Gnu-Linux! Sir, I note that you are not wearing Stradivarius products. I'm going to have to ask you to leave the newsgroup. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: D_Jim Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 17 Dec 2001 18:48:09 -0800 Organization: Blue Moon Fizz Lines: 28 Message-ID: <9vmap9023l8@drn.newsguy.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1176.748T2177T7505598@sky.bus.com> <9vero3$r3u$1@knossos.btinternet.com> <3C1E8AD8.C135CAAA@ev1.net> <0tss1u00rbqqn0kjjeu3bfq2f9u1jsv62v@4ax.com> <3C1E913B.378CDF94@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-480.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.91 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!64.245.249.19.MISMATCH!dfw3-feed1.news.digex.net!sfo2-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96997 Charles wrote: >Maybe your skill sets were different...but you would be placed >according to your designation regardless. At least, that was >my understanding of how things are done... It would depend on not only my job code, electronics tech, but what specialty schools I had been to. I was sent to a particular type of air search radar school. It was only available on certain types of ships. So if they asked for an ETR3 with that set of skills, I could have been sent to the ship requesting that type of help. If a cruiser had requested an ETR3, the USN Bureau of Personnel might not send me there, if a destroyer needed my skill set. Didn't always happen though. I knew several radar techs who wound up working on radios, because the ship they got assigned to was short handed in that department. So they were put to work on gear they had only basic electricity knowledge about. JimP. -- djim55 atty datasync dotty com Disclaimer: Standard "Utopia does not exist." http://www.crosswinds.net/~drivein/ drive-in movie theaters update Sep 11,2001 http://www.datasync.com/~djim55/index.html ###### From: Ian Stirling Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 05:23:39 GMT Message-ID: <1008653019.19241.0.nnrp-12.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C167F53.E0EDE130@hawaga.org.uk> <815.745T1093T9794094@sky.bus.com> <3C17897B.97582CEF@hawaga.org.uk> <9var85$as1$1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1008653019 nnrp-12:19241 NO-IDENT mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: tin/1.5.6-20000803 ("Dust") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.16 (i686)) Originator: root@mauve.demon.co.uk Lines: 22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mauve.demon.co.uk!root Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97054 Joe Morris wrote: > > Ben Clifford writes: > >>There is a moon button and an envelope button, but pushing them doesn't >>make the lights change (I'm not even really sure what is getting sent to >>the PC at all when I push these (or any of the 16 other extra keys >>[3])). > > If it's like all the other cursed-with-extra-toy-buttons keyboards > I've seen, the new buttons just send otherwise unassigned scan codes > to the keyboard controller on the system board. If you don't have > software installed that watches for and responds to these new codes > they're just ignored. Unless your software is sufficiently configurable that you can bind them to do the right thing. (Or the wrong thing.) o -- http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling. ---------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------- "The theory of everything falls out trivially." -- Etherman, sci.physics kook. ###### From: "Rupert Pigott" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:17:08 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 22 Message-ID: <9vnfkj$3ha$2@paris.btinternet.com> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vd8n6$1ck$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> <9vfetv$d55$12@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vlfur$gb7$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> <9vnekp$r9i$4@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-191-232.btinternet.com X-Trace: paris.btinternet.com 1008681428 3626 213.122.191.232 (18 Dec 2001 13:17:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@paris.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:17:08 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97030 wrote in message news:9vnekp$r9i$4@bob.news.rcn.net... > Files should be broken up into code that must be in core all at once. Err, do you mean (L0) L1, L2, L3 or main memory ? Even L2 is getting kinda hefty these days, well into the order of megabytes... :) > I think file organization has become a tad mussed up. Just taking > a look at the mess on my disk of Misoft, tells me that these > people didn't think at all about memory and product management. Product management, yeah, no clue whatsoever. Even their own stuff scatters itself willy-nilly, so I can't really put the boot into 3rd party vendors for following their example. It depressed me to find out that an OS put together by a bunch of people who had never even seen each other, with no development budget, could organise their product better. No, it that was far from perfect either. Cheers, Rupert ###### From: tmm@spamfilter.asns.tr.unisys.com (Tim McCaffrey) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:27:49 +0000 (UTC) Organization: A series networking Lines: 39 Message-ID: <9vo1r5$aqi$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vd8n6$1ck$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> <9vfetv$d55$12@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vlfur$gb7$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> <9vnekp$r9i$4@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.63.212.94 X-Trace: trsvr.tr.unisys.com 1008700069 11090 192.63.212.94 (18 Dec 2001 18:27:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@trsvr.tr.unisys.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:27:49 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!uunet!ash.uu.net!dca.uu.net!bbnews1.unisys.com!trsvr.tr.unisys.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97020 In article <9vnekp$r9i$4@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com says... > [Snip] >I'm not questioning the possibility; I'm not questioning the >advantages. I am questioning the ability to reproduce EXEs >from a known set of sources without having to reproduce those >sources. This method, in my definition, is not source control. >There are _no_ sources, just an edit history! If you ever >lose the processor that "chooses" edits, the sources of a >well-defined date or revision level are gone because they >never existed! > > They exist, and the complete sysgen is saved (all sources, all intermediate files, etc). We can reproduce the result from what is in the database, but normally we only rebuild what changed (or is affected by a change). We do use Make (well, a close descendent), and used properly it makes life *much* easier. [Snip] >Files should be broken up into code that must be in core all at once. >I think file organization has become a tad mussed up. Just taking >a look at the mess on my disk of Misoft, tells me that these >people didn't think at all about memory and product management. > [Snip] >I never once suggested that you abandon your method in favor of >the way Unix is getting done. I'm saying that you have a huge >big potential of getting Murphy'ed. > Not really, besides this being a Mainframe environment, with scheduled backups and an industrial strength database, the process is very resilent. One of the nice things about the ever increasing speed of processors and size of disks/memory, is that doing a complete rebuild only takes a couple of hours (or so). We used to have to throttle the sysgen so it wouldn't swamp the system, now it is hard to keep it busy. - Tim ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 18 Dec 01 10:25:38 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 28 Message-ID: <1329.752T1902T6254911@sky.bus.com> References: <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vd8n6$1ck$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> <9vfetv$d55$12@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vlfur$gb7$1@trsvr.tr.unisys.com> <9vnekp$r9i$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vnfkj$3ha$2@paris.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-634.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97097 In article <9vnfkj$3ha$2@paris.btinternet.com> Darkb00ng@btinternet.com (Rupert Pigott) writes: > wrote in message news:9vnekp$r9i$4@bob.news.rcn.net... > >> I think file organization has become a tad mussed up. Just taking >> a look at the mess on my disk of Misoft, tells me that these >> people didn't think at all about memory and product management. > >Product management, yeah, no clue whatsoever. Even their own stuff >scatters itself willy-nilly, so I can't really put the boot into >3rd party vendors for following their example. Oh, sure you can. Go ahead. It's fun. If they really knew what they were doing, they'd realize that these Microsoft practices are unnecessary (except to tie the user into their proprietary bullshit). That's why my Windows programs don't use DLLs or resource files, don't need or want fancy installers or de-installers, and aren't aware that the Registry even exists. Quick and easy installation, even quicker and easier removal, and somehow the programs are still smaller than ones that are wired into the official "efficiencies". -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: "Phil Weldon" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:32:13 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 27 Message-ID: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> References: Reply-To: "Phil Weldon" NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.56.a7.30 X-Server-Date: 19 Dec 2001 00:30:48 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97146 The IBM System/360 Model 50. But I don't think you'll find room on a desktop. The control panel was about four feet long and thirty inches high. A few hundred tiny lamps (about the size of an LED, mostly white, with a few red), a few hundred bat-handled sub-miniature switches, all arranged in blocks with labeling as registers, addresses, memory content, counters, status, etc.) But they really did not blink unless you singled stepped at a high rate. Under normal conditions, some lamps were always lit, some always off, and most glowed softly, with the brightness indicating changes in activity, say from one area of memory to another. You've only got a narrow window of opportunity. Earlier than 1965 computers did not have enough address bits, registers, or word bits to allow for much of a display. After 1975 keyboards, CRT's, and debugging tools took over. Phil Weldon, pweldon@mindspring.com "oh gr"eight" "one"" wrote in message news:i7bc1usjgfvm2882ir2rmkbnfgmmdaoceu@4ax.com... > > For those of you who have seen many different computers: > > Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ > panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? > > (You see, I am building a new home > system, and most case design seem so blah.... ) ###### From: "Daniel House" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Blinking lights Lines: 23 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:58:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.88.253.49 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.southeast.rr.com 1008727109 24.88.253.49 (Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:58:29 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:58:29 EST Organization: Road Runner - NC Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!64.245.249.19.MISMATCH!dfw3-feed1.news.digex.net!dca6-feed1.news.digex.net!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!typhoon.southeast.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97193 "Phil Weldon" wrote in message news:9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net... > The IBM System/360 Model 50. But I don't think you'll find room on a > desktop. The control panel was about four feet long and thirty inches high. > A few hundred tiny lamps (about the size of an LED, mostly white, with a few > red), a few hundred bat-handled sub-miniature switches, all arranged in > blocks with labeling as registers, addresses, memory content, counters, A good picture of a 360 Model 50: http://www.punch-card.co.uk/360-50.htm However, you may be thinking of the 360 Model 75: http://www.punch-card.co.uk/360-75.htm Even more lamps and switches, the 360 Model 91: http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/36091.html Regards, Dan ###### From: "Phil Weldon" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:53:45 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 100 Message-ID: <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> Reply-To: "Phil Weldon" NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.56.a7.30 X-Server-Date: 19 Dec 2001 03:52:18 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!hub1.nntpserver.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97147 Nice site. I see that some pages are under construction. They have my best wishes for an even bigger and better collection. As for which S/360 I remember, I am quite sure that the S/360-75 was not it. The time was 1968-69 and I worked at an IBM Field Systems Center in Atlanta. We had one of every mainframe IBM produced, except for the more specialized machines with model numbers under 60. The purpose of the Field Systems Center was to try and duplicate customers problems, develop software that the sales force had sold, but which did not exist, and act as flying squads for customer emergencies (like a sysgen). I had forgotten about the knobs at the side that changed the labeling and function of the lamps, and that fewer switches were used by allowing their function to be changed. As for the top panel with the analog meter and knobs, I likely never glanced at it since it was quite outside the province of a systems programmer. That 360-91 is a monster! I wonder how many were produced; I'd guess a dozen. The "Computer Museum" at http://www.puch.card.co.uk is a fine resource, but I would guess there are some model naming differences with the USA offerings. I remember the following System 360 models, in order of power, not first date of installation. Model 15____mostly a tape, card reader/punch, and printer machine. Model 20____smallest real mainframe, hardware multiplication and division was an option (the circuitry was in the machine, but if you signed up for the extra capability, a CE set a jumper, and there you had it; hardware multiply and divide and an extra charge on your monthly bill Model 25____microcode in RAM; the Model 25 could run as a low end System 360 by default at boot, or a card deck could load a different set of microcode that let the Model 25 run native 1401 code (variable field length, extra field bit, and a pattern for record end.) Model 30____4 byte words Model 40____faster Model 44____we did not have one, but I believe it was a virtual memory machine (drum) Model 50____even faster Model 55 (or 56?)____close coupled dual processors (or whatever they called it then) I believe that a last digit of 7 indicated a machine specialized for scientific work (Model 67). I never saw a higher number; by that time I was working with RCA systems. RCA gave a hint of their future in mainframes when they show a failure of imagination in naming their mainframes: The RCA Spectra/70, with model numbers 5 higher than the closest IBM System/360 model; Spectra/70-35, Spectra/70-45, Spectra/70-46 (virtual memory machine), and Spectra/70-55. A few of these model numbers may be off in the last digit; it has been 31 years. I do remember the wonder of the computer floor (and that floor was huge, what with eleven mainframes) was the DataCell 2321; sort of a Dictaphone belt jukebox in a clear plastic cylinder perhaps three feet high and two in diameter. It was random access with about a 2 to 4 second access time. A circle of belts a few inches wide and a few feet long hung in a ring just inside the transparent cylinder. When a data request was made, the circle rotated the correct belt into position, and an arm loaded the belt on two rotating wheels. Once the belt was up to speed, a data head moved to the correct track, and data flowed. It was quite spectacular if a thrashing situation developed! How about this for an impressive front panel: the Krell power control board in the movie "Forbidden Planet"? Phil Weldon, pweldon@mindspring.com "Daniel House" wrote in message news:9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com... > > "Phil Weldon" wrote in message > news:9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net... > > The IBM System/360 Model 50. But I don't think you'll find room on a > > desktop. The control panel was about four feet long and thirty inches > high. > > A few hundred tiny lamps (about the size of an LED, mostly white, with a > few > > red), a few hundred bat-handled sub-miniature switches, all arranged in > > blocks with labeling as registers, addresses, memory content, counters, > > A good picture of a 360 Model 50: > http://www.punch-card.co.uk/360-50.htm > > However, you may be thinking of the 360 Model 75: > http://www.punch-card.co.uk/360-75.htm > > Even more lamps and switches, the 360 Model 91: > http://www.columbia.edu/acis/history/36091.html > > Regards, Dan > > ###### From: "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> <3C1B9110.32F4B601@gazonk.del> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 05:09:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.59.149 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1008738559 168.191.59.149 (Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:09:19 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:09:19 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:09:19 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97070 On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:04:35 -0500, Howard S Shubs wrote: >> NeXTStep OS and Display Postscript window system. Now assimilated into >> Mac OS X. > >Let's cross them. Display Postscript is dead, Doesn't OS X use Display Postscript or something similar? >as far as I know. Let's draw >the comparison between NeXTstep and Windows XP. ###### Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:08:19 -0500 From: Kevin Michael Vail Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Message-ID: <191220010108193907%kevin@vaildc.net> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> <3C1B9110.32F4B601@gazonk.del> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Thoth/1.4.4 (Carbon/OS X) NNTP-Posting-Host: mail.vailstar.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 1008742107 mail.vailstar.com (19 Dec 2001 01:08:27 -0500) Organization: Heller Information Services Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!vienna7.his.com!kevin Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97124 In article , oh gr\"eight\" \"one\ wrote: > On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:04:35 -0500, Howard S Shubs > wrote: > > >> NeXTStep OS and Display Postscript window system. Now assimilated into > >> Mac OS X. > > > >Let's cross them. Display Postscript is dead, > > Doesn't OS X use Display Postscript or something similar? Nope. Its display system is based on PDF. Apple didn't want to have to pay any license fees to Adobe. -- Kevin Michael Vail | a billion stars go spinning through the night, kevin@vaildc.net | blazing high above your head. . . . . . . . . . | But _in_ you is the presence that . . . . . . . . . | will be, when all the stars are dead. (Rainer Maria Rilke) ###### From: johnf@panix.com (John Francis) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 19 Dec 2001 03:07:36 -0500 Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9vphs8$kol$1@panix3.panix.com> References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 1008749256 26996 166.84.1.3 (19 Dec 2001 08:07:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Dec 2001 08:07:36 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!panix!news.panix.com!panix3.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97128 In article <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>, Phil Weldon wrote: > >Model 15____mostly a tape, card reader/punch, and printer machine. >Model 20____smallest real mainframe, hardware multiplication and division >was an option (the circuitry was in the machine, but if you signed up for >the extra capability, a CE set a jumper, and there you had it; hardware >multiply and divide and an extra charge on your monthly bill >Model 25____microcode in RAM; the Model 25 could run as a low end System 360 >by default at boot, or a card deck could load a different set of microcode >that let the Model 25 run native 1401 code (variable field length, extra >field bit, and a pattern for record end.) >Model 30____4 byte words >Model 40____faster >Model 44____we did not have one, but I believe it was a virtual memory >machine (drum) The model 44 was a hybrid machine with the floating-point unit from one of the faster models (65?), but most of the rest of the machine based on a slower model (40? 30?). It was popular amongst the scientific community. I used one at Cambridge - it was owned by Fred Hoyle's astronomy research group. >Model 50____even faster >Model 55 (or 56?)____close coupled dual processors (or whatever they called >it then) ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:28:00 -0500 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> <3C1B9110.32F4B601@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-905.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Mail-Copies-To: nobody Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97167 In article , "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" wrote: > Doesn't OS X use Display Postscript or something similar? MacOS X doesn't use Display Postscript. As I understand it, Adobe dropped support for the product. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" Golf vs Bug: VW has been cutting corners ###### X-Posting-Agent: Hamster/1.3.23.4 From: Nick Spalding Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Reply-To: spalding@iol.ie Message-ID: References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <9vphs8$kol$1@panix3.panix.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.555 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:18:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.203.147.88 X-Complaints-To: abuse@iol.ie X-Trace: news.iol.ie 1008771493 193.203.147.88 (Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:18:13 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:18:13 GMT Organization: Ireland On-Line Customer Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.online.be!newsfeed.esat.net!news.iol.ie!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97165 John Francis wrote, in <9vphs8$kol$1@panix3.panix.com>: > In article <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>, > Phil Weldon wrote: > >Model 25____microcode in RAM; the Model 25 could run as a low end System 360 > >by default at boot, or a card deck could load a different set of microcode > >that let the Model 25 run native 1401 code (variable field length, extra > >field bit, and a pattern for record end.) It could be run either as low end 360/30 or as a *really* low end 360/20. It even supported the dreaded MFCM whose number escapes me - was it 2560? -- Nick Spalding ###### From: ic0cdfw00@ic24.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:22:47 +0000 Lines: 12 Message-ID: <54j12ucpmu80s1ko8obo1cpb5gnflch7fp@4ax.com> References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <9vphs8$kol$1@panix3.panix.com> Reply-To: tony.lenton@physics.org NNTP-Posting-Host: du-031-0121.claranet.co.uk (212.126.142.121) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1008782572 17982025 212.126.142.121 (16 [88156]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!du-031-0121.claranet.co.UK!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97181 On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:18:13 GMT, Nick Spalding wrote: >It even supported the dreaded MFCM whose number escapes me - >was it 2560? The malfunctioning card machine was indeed the 2560. -- aml ###### X-Posting-Agent: Hamster/1.3.23.4 From: Nick Spalding Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Reply-To: spalding@iol.ie Message-ID: <19o12ug9b3ggb2vku1e4bmre2jisfbsobc@4ax.com> References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <9vphs8$kol$1@panix3.panix.com> <54j12ucpmu80s1ko8obo1cpb5gnflch7fp@4ax.com> <1_4U7.107$w77.4252@news.get2net.dk> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.555 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:49:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.203.147.9 X-Complaints-To: abuse@iol.ie X-Trace: news.iol.ie 1008787788 193.203.147.9 (Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:49:48 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:49:48 GMT Organization: Ireland On-Line Customer Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.esat.net!news.iol.ie!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97189 Nico de Jong wrote, in <1_4U7.107$w77.4252@news.get2net.dk>: > > skrev i en > nyhedsmeddelelse:54j12ucpmu80s1ko8obo1cpb5gnflch7fp@4ax.com... > > On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:18:13 GMT, Nick Spalding > > wrote: > > > > > > >It even supported the dreaded MFCM whose number escapes me - > > >was it 2560? > > > > The malfunctioning card machine was indeed the 2560. > > > > -- > > aml > > > Wasnt it supposed to mean "multi function card machine" ??? Whoosh -- Nick Spalding ###### From: ipaschke@t-online.de (Ingo Paschke) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:25:52 +0100 Organization: T-Online Lines: 16 Message-ID: <9vqpk0$hvf$07$1@news.t-online.com> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> <3C1B9110.32F4B601@gazonk.del> <191220010108193907%kevin@vaildc.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.t-online.com 1008789952 07 18415 0M5FTKfES0A3bI 011219 19:25:52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@t-online.com X-Sender: 320040019232-0001@t-dialin.net X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.3 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsmm00.sul.t-online.com!t-online.de!news.t-online.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97134 Kevin Michael Vail writes: >In article , oh gr\"eight\" >\"one\ wrote: >> Doesn't OS X use Display Postscript or something similar? >Nope. Its display system is based on PDF. >Apple didn't want to have to pay any license fees to Adobe. I doubt that's the reason. PDF uses Postscript as its foundation and is an Adobe product. So I guess the only difference between Postscript and PDF in this regard is that you have to pay _MORE_ license fees ;-). Ciao, Ingo. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 20 Dec 01 10:56:44 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 14 Message-ID: <9vsnfe$pgl$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> <3C1B9110.32F4B601@gazonk.del> <191220010108193907%kevin@vaildc.net> <9vqpk0$hvf$07$1@news.t-online.com> <191220012030394364%elliott@yrl.co.uk> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaIvx+MW7b7Lu7WrB3CulXuWrkp4dwTaxzsXG2QFAq6HOIlrBB6UZf4 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Dec 2001 13:01:34 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-92 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97268 In article <191220012030394364%elliott@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper wrote: >And quite pretty it is too. No Blinkenlights though. As long as you >don't count the stupid little post office icon jumping up and down in >front of what I'm typing to say there is yet more spam on the doorstep. Please, please tell me you were joking. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 20 Dec 01 14:17:57 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: <813.754T2860T8575853@sky.bus.com> References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <3C217087.E34D48D2@yahoo.com> <3C22407F.A4F7C074@ev1.net> <9vta92$c94$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-051.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97222 In article <9vta92$c94$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes: >Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) writes: > >> And they charge you *more* for a CD of a recording, than they do >> for a cassette of the *same* recording. But it cost *less* to >> produce the CD than the cassette... > > Assuming maximum lifetimes, they have pre-factored the cost per > play into the selling price. (Yet I have a bunch of AOL CDs > for free. Hmm) I'd say the analogy holds - unless you want to factor in the number of times you use those AOL CDs as coasters. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 20 Dec 01 14:17:57 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: <813.754T2860T8575853@sky.bus.com> References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <3C217087.E34D48D2@yahoo.com> <3C22407F.A4F7C074@ev1.net> <9vta92$c94$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-051.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97222 In article <9vta92$c94$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes: >Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) writes: > >> And they charge you *more* for a CD of a recording, than they do >> for a cassette of the *same* recording. But it cost *less* to >> produce the CD than the cassette... > > Assuming maximum lifetimes, they have pre-factored the cost per > play into the selling price. (Yet I have a bunch of AOL CDs > for free. Hmm) I'd say the analogy holds - unless you want to factor in the number of times you use those AOL CDs as coasters. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 21 Dec 01 10:41:26 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 28 Message-ID: <1214.755T1344T6414917@sky.bus.com> References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <3C217087.E34D48D2@yahoo.com> <3C22407F.A4F7C074@ev1.net> <3c239761.6950260@news.btopenworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-838.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!uucp.muenster.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97227 In article <3c239761.6950260@news.btopenworld.com> greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk (greenaum) writes: >On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:52:05 GMT, Charles Richmond >sprachen: > >>And they charge you *more* for a CD of a recording, than they do >>for a cassette of the *same* recording. But it cost *less* to >>produce the CD than the cassette... > >But a CD is better. Things are priced according to perceived value, if >they can get the cost down, whoopie doo they get to keep the extra. This is also true if they can get the perceived value up, which is where most of the effort seems to be going these days. Either way, it supports that study I once heard of (Harvard? Yale? Urban legend?) that showed that money was better spent on advertising than on product development. Make a cheaper product (get the cost down) while plugging it like mad (get the perceived value up). And here we are, surrounded by piles of junk that your average luser thinks is wonderful. Blech. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: John Alvord Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:12:28 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <9vphs8$kol$1@panix3.panix.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.553 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 31 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97364 On 19 Dec 2001 03:07:36 -0500, johnf@panix.com (John Francis) wrote: >In article <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>, >Phil Weldon wrote: >> >>Model 15____mostly a tape, card reader/punch, and printer machine. >>Model 20____smallest real mainframe, hardware multiplication and division >>was an option (the circuitry was in the machine, but if you signed up for >>the extra capability, a CE set a jumper, and there you had it; hardware >>multiply and divide and an extra charge on your monthly bill >>Model 25____microcode in RAM; the Model 25 could run as a low end System 360 >>by default at boot, or a card deck could load a different set of microcode >>that let the Model 25 run native 1401 code (variable field length, extra >>field bit, and a pattern for record end.) >>Model 30____4 byte words >>Model 40____faster >>Model 44____we did not have one, but I believe it was a virtual memory >>machine (drum) > >The model 44 was a hybrid machine with the floating-point unit from >one of the faster models (65?), but most of the rest of the machine >based on a slower model (40? 30?). >It was popular amongst the scientific community. I used one at >Cambridge - it was owned by Fred Hoyle's astronomy research group. The very first IBM virtual memory machine was a specially built 360/44 with a "Cambridge Address Translator" CAT box. It ran CP/40 until the first /67 was ready. In one history talk, a CS person mentioned that the /44 went off to Buffalo and ran MFT for many years. john ###### From: Elliott Roper Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:30:39 +0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <191220012030394364%elliott@yrl.co.uk> References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vatua$bd1$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> <3C1B9110.32F4B601@gazonk.del> <191220010108193907%kevin@vaildc.net> <9vqpk0$hvf$07$1@news.t-online.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Thoth/1.4.4 (Carbon/OS X) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 26 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!elliott Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97267 In article <9vqpk0$hvf$07$1@news.t-online.com>, Ingo Paschke wrote: > Kevin Michael Vail writes: > > >In article , oh gr\"eight\" > >\"one\ wrote: > > >> Doesn't OS X use Display Postscript or something similar? > > >Nope. Its display system is based on PDF. > >Apple didn't want to have to pay any license fees to Adobe. > > I doubt that's the reason. PDF uses Postscript as its foundation and is an > Adobe product. So I guess the only difference between Postscript and PDF in > this regard is that you have to pay _MORE_ license fees ;-). > Yes and no, it is a kind of display PDF. PDF is a 'published' standard, for the data format, and it is based on Postscript, whereas display postscript did attract license fees. It was software. So AFAIK Apple *did* write their own display thing, called 'quartz', with reference to the PDF standard without the costs of display postscript licensing. And quite pretty it is too. No Blinkenlights though. As long as you don't count the stupid little post office icon jumping up and down in front of what I'm typing to say there is yet more spam on the doorstep. ###### From: andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 19 Dec 2001 22:08:03 GMT Organization: home Message-ID: <9vr343$gc6@cucumber.demon.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: cucumber X-NNTP-Posting-Host: cucumber.demon.co.uk:158.152.58.86 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1008799777 nnrp-12:7683 NO-IDENT cucumber.demon.co.uk:158.152.58.86 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.6 Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!cucumber.demon.co.uk!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97283 In article , "oh gr\"eight\" \"one\"" writes: > >For those of you who have seen many different computers: > >Which computer had most awesome/cool looking console/ >panel whatever? Any pointer to JPGs or GIFs? Here's a picture of a GEC4080 front panel, to which I added animation which looks pretty much like the original when running (depending which registers you have set the front panel lamps to monitor). http://www.cucumber.demon.co.uk/geccl/4000series/gec4080.gif This is part of a description of all the GEC4000 series mini-computers, but as time went on, the front panels got more boring/sparse, as required by changes in fashion... http://www.cucumber.demon.co.uk/geccl/4000series/processors.html -- Andrew Gabriel Consultant Software Engineer ###### From: andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 19 Dec 2001 22:29:37 GMT Organization: home Message-ID: <9vr4ch$gc6@cucumber.demon.co.uk> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cucumber X-NNTP-Posting-Host: cucumber.demon.co.uk:158.152.58.86 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1008801402 nnrp-14:14699 NO-IDENT cucumber.demon.co.uk:158.152.58.86 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.6 Lines: 28 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!netnews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!stdio!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!cucumber.demon.co.uk!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97291 In article <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >I can't imagine efficient source control with a development >group of 200 people. They'ld be tripping all over each other. It's perfectly possible - even with very many more than that number. You partition the people to work in different areas (what you might call 'modules') of the software. This works right through from design, code, test, etc. The key is to have well defined inter-module interfaces, loose inter-module coupling, and good intra-module cohesion. Also testing which operates at the module interface level so each module can be tested in isolation when the modules it interfaces to are not yet ready. Given that, you can then pretty much regard each module as a smaller more managable project. Key to this is achieving a high level design which lends itself to farming out in this way as smaller modules, but you don't normally have all 200 people starting work on a new project together with a remit to start from the high level design - that will be done by a much smaller number of people. For a large project, the fan-out to underlying sub-projects, could well be more than one tier deep. -- Andrew Gabriel Consultant Software Engineer ###### Message-ID: <3C217087.E34D48D2@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 05:54:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.167.230 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1008827676 12.90.167.230 (Thu, 20 Dec 2001 05:54:36 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 05:54:36 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97365 Phil Weldon wrote: > ... snip ... > > Model 15____mostly a tape, card reader/punch, and printer machine. > Model 20____smallest real mainframe, hardware multiplication and division > was an option (the circuitry was in the machine, but if you signed up for > the extra capability, a CE set a jumper, and there you had it; hardware > multiply and divide and an extra charge on your monthly bill That is like the Telco attitude to tone dialing 30 years ago, and to caller-id today. In both cases they have to add equipment to block the ability from you, and they charge extra for removing that extra equipment. Sounds like the protection racket. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:38:34 +0000 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Message-ID: References: <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <3C217087.E34D48D2@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1008849608 nnrp-14:597 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Lines: 14 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97237 According to CBFalconer : > That is like the Telco attitude to tone dialing 30 years ago, and > to caller-id today. In both cases they have to add equipment to > block the ability from you, and they charge extra for removing > that extra equipment. Sounds like the protection racket. Even worse is to ask the telecomms company *not* to do something, which they will then charge you for; eg, BT's anonymous caller rejection will stop a call being received if the caller withholds their number. Now you'd think that not having as many incoming calls tying up the exchanges would be cheaper but, oh no, they charge a monthly rental for you to not receive them. Chris. ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 20 Dec 2001 17:14:02 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9vt68q$mlg$1@top.mitre.org> References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <9vphs8$kol$1@panix3.panix.com> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 1008868442 23216 128.29.114.13 (20 Dec 2001 17:14:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Dec 2001 17:14:02 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!newstransit.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97231 Nick Spalding writes: >John Francis wrote, in <9vphs8$kol$1@panix3.panix.com>: >> Phil Weldon wrote: >> >Model 25____microcode in RAM; the Model 25 could run as a low end System 360 >> >by default at boot, or a card deck could load a different set of microcode >> >that let the Model 25 run native 1401 code (variable field length, extra >> >field bit, and a pattern for record end.) >It could be run either as low end 360/30 or as a *really* low end >360/20. It even supported the dreaded MFCM whose number escapes me - >was it 2560? Yep. Question for the group: did *anyone* in IBM consider how customers would transform the initials "MFCM"? (The official IBM name for the box was the "Multi-Function Card Machine.") And did the staff at any installation cursed with the presence of an MFCM ever think of it using the official IBM name as opposed to the unofficial one that also mapped to "MFCM?" Joe Morris ###### From: Elliott Roper Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:24:19 +0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <201220011724193967%elliott@yrl.co.uk> References: <20011214082013.2a68183d.steveo@eircom.net> <3C1B9110.32F4B601@gazonk.del> <191220010108193907%kevin@vaildc.net> <9vqpk0$hvf$07$1@news.t-online.com> <191220012030394364%elliott@yrl.co.uk> <9vsnfe$pgl$3@bob.news.rcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Thoth/1.4.4 (Carbon/OS X) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!elliott Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97270 In article <9vsnfe$pgl$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: > In article <191220012030394364%elliott@yrl.co.uk>, > Elliott Roper wrote: > > > >And quite pretty it is too. No Blinkenlights though. As long as you > >don't count the stupid little post office icon jumping up and down in > >front of what I'm typing to say there is yet more spam on the doorstep. > > Please, please tell me you were joking. Nope. This is Macintosh we are talking here. It has a task bar called the dock. You can hide it below the bottom margin of the display. When a dock item want a human's attention, it jumps up and down like a spoiled kid, just bouncing into view at the bottom of the screen (it's an option you can turn off, but I still find it amusing.) Yo don' worry, I'm gonna teach this puppy teco. Then it will know who is boss. > > /BAH > > > Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Message-ID: <3C224032.C3B3DE0@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <9vphs8$kol$1@panix3.panix.com> <9vt68q$mlg$1@top.mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 41 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:50:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.127.202.212 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc52 1008870648 204.127.202.212 (Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:50:48 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:50:48 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.204!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!rwcrnsc52.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97343 Joe Morris wrote: > > Nick Spalding writes: > > >John Francis wrote, in <9vphs8$kol$1@panix3.panix.com>: > > >> Phil Weldon wrote: > > >> >Model 25____microcode in RAM; the Model 25 could run as a low end System 360 > >> >by default at boot, or a card deck could load a different set of microcode > >> >that let the Model 25 run native 1401 code (variable field length, extra > >> >field bit, and a pattern for record end.) > > >It could be run either as low end 360/30 or as a *really* low end > >360/20. It even supported the dreaded MFCM whose number escapes me - > >was it 2560? > > Yep. > > Question for the group: did *anyone* in IBM consider how customers would > transform the initials "MFCM"? (The official IBM name for the box was > the "Multi-Function Card Machine.") > > And did the staff at any installation cursed with the presence of an > MFCM ever think of it using the official IBM name as opposed to the > unofficial one that also mapped to "MFCM?" > Reminds me of a skit on the "Live, It's Saturday Night" TV show. A man (Nicolas Cage) and his pregnant wife are discussing what to name their baby. Every name the wife thinks of, the husband aways dislikes because kids will make fun of that name. Then a telegram arrives...turns out the man's last name is Asswipe. (Of course, he pronounces it "as-wee-pay".) IMHO the point is: Whatever you call it, people can always find some way to make fun of the name... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3C22407F.A4F7C074@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <3C217087.E34D48D2@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:52:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.127.202.212 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc52 1008870725 204.127.202.212 (Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:52:05 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:52:05 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.204!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!rwcrnsc52.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97349 CBFalconer wrote: > > Phil Weldon wrote: > > > ... snip ... > > > > Model 15____mostly a tape, card reader/punch, and printer machine. > > Model 20____smallest real mainframe, hardware multiplication and division > > was an option (the circuitry was in the machine, but if you signed up for > > the extra capability, a CE set a jumper, and there you had it; hardware > > multiply and divide and an extra charge on your monthly bill > > That is like the Telco attitude to tone dialing 30 years ago, and > to caller-id today. In both cases they have to add equipment to > block the ability from you, and they charge extra for removing > that extra equipment. Sounds like the protection racket. > And they charge you *more* for a CD of a recording, than they do for a cassette of the *same* recording. But it cost *less* to produce the CD than the cassette... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 20 Dec 2001 18:22:26 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <9vta92$c94$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <3C217087.E34D48D2@yahoo.com> <3C22407F.A4F7C074@ev1.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1008872546 12580 134.117.136.30 (20 Dec 2001 18:22:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Dec 2001 18:22:26 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97290 Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) writes: > And they charge you *more* for a CD of a recording, than they do > for a cassette of the *same* recording. But it cost *less* to > produce the CD than the cassette... Assuming maximum lifetimes, they have pre-factored the cost per play into the selling price. (Yet I have a bunch of AOL CDs for free. Hmm) ###### From: johnf@panix.com (John Francis) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 20 Dec 2001 13:22:36 -0500 Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp. Lines: 7 Message-ID: <9vta9c$79k$1@panix2.panix.com> References: <191220012030394364%elliott@yrl.co.uk> <9vsnfe$pgl$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <201220011724193967%elliott@yrl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 1008872556 7092 166.84.1.2 (20 Dec 2001 18:22:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Dec 2001 18:22:36 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!news.panix.com!panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97249 In article <201220011724193967%elliott@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper wrote: > >Yo don' worry, I'm gonna teach this puppy teco. Then it will know who >is boss. So will you ... ###### Message-ID: <3C228FAA.AD61783D@hawaga.org.uk> From: Ben Clifford Organization: HAWAGA.ORG.UK X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.16 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <3C217087.E34D48D2@yahoo.com> <3C22407F.A4F7C074@ev1.net> <9vta92$c94$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <813.754T2860T8575853@sky.bus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 X-Trace: /wzbxY45zIUvoeDHYQEYQaERLrlW/+XgTn/BKtHk3IiDja0/Evu7OR8anxCX3gZLcmWR7HsvXWBx!4oPU7bEszEvcXq7gZ7MZ2a8JfkJGbX3MN6Prdu3KPnaICI9ONMbDpXJKrPlbiAcNGlA= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 01:26:02 GMT Distribution: world Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 01:26:02 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!paloalto-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97229 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > Assuming maximum lifetimes, they have pre-factored the cost per > > play into the selling price. (Yet I have a bunch of AOL CDs > > for free. Hmm) > > I'd say the analogy holds - unless you want to factor in the > number of times you use those AOL CDs as coasters. Perhaps AOL should pay a fee to coaster manufacturers for each AOL CD distributed, to make up for lost revenue? -- Ben Clifford benc@hawaga.org.uk http://www.hawaga.org.uk/ben/ GPG: 30F06950 webcam: http://barbarella.hawaga.org.uk/~benc/webcam/live.html ###### From: greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 03:15:58 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Rossum's Universal Robots Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3c239761.6950260@news.btopenworld.com> References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <3C217087.E34D48D2@yahoo.com> <3C22407F.A4F7C074@ev1.net> Reply-To: greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-155-110.btinternet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: knossos.btinternet.com 1008904558 768 213.1.155.110 (21 Dec 2001 03:15:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@knossos.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 03:15:58 +0000 (UTC) X-No-Archive: yes X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97302 On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:52:05 GMT, Charles Richmond sprachen: >And they charge you *more* for a CD of a recording, than they do >for a cassette of the *same* recording. But it cost *less* to >produce the CD than the cassette... But a CD is better. Things are priced according to perceived value, if they can get the cost down, whoopie doo they get to keep the extra. When were things last charged on a cost+ basis anyway? The 15th century? Did Adam Smith's book on the wealth of nations bring this point up at all? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ if love is a drug, then, ideally, it's a healing, healthful drug... it's kind of like prozac is supposed to work (without the sexual side effects and long-term damage to the brain and psyche) ###### From: "Phil Weldon" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 00:47:47 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9vuian$lh5$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <3C217087.E34D48D2@yahoo.com> <3C22407F.A4F7C074@ev1.net> <9vta92$c94$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <813.754T2860T8575853@sky.bus.com> <3C228FAA.AD61783D@hawaga.org.uk> Reply-To: "Phil Weldon" NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.56.a7.30 X-Server-Date: 21 Dec 2001 05:45:59 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97320 Perhaps a deposit fee should be charged on each AOL coaster freebie. AOL gets the money back if the coaster is returned. Otherwise the environmental agencies keep the fee to clean up the environment. Phil Weldon, pweldon@mindspring.com "Ben Clifford" wrote in message news:3C228FAA.AD61783D@hawaga.org.uk... > Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > > > Assuming maximum lifetimes, they have pre-factored the cost per > > > play into the selling price. (Yet I have a bunch of AOL CDs > > > for free. Hmm) > > > > I'd say the analogy holds - unless you want to factor in the > > number of times you use those AOL CDs as coasters. > > Perhaps AOL should pay a fee to coaster manufacturers for each AOL CD > distributed, to make up for lost revenue? > > -- > Ben Clifford benc@hawaga.org.uk > http://www.hawaga.org.uk/ben/ GPG: 30F06950 > webcam: http://barbarella.hawaga.org.uk/~benc/webcam/live.html ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Allodoxaphobia Subject: Re: Blinking lights References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <3C217087.E34D48D2@yahoo.com> <3C22407F.A4F7C074@ev1.net> <3c239761.6950260@news.btopenworld.com> <1214.755T1344T6414917@sky.bus.com> Reply-To: If You Reply Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.2 (Linux) Date: 21 Dec 2001 23:29:04 GMT Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.105.232.20 X-Trace: 1008977344 reader2.ash.ops.us.uu.net 11073 63.105.232.20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!uunet!ash.uu.net!spool0900.news.uu.net!reader0902.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97428 On 21 Dec 01 10:41:26 -0800, Charlie Gibbs scribbled: > > Make a cheaper product (get the cost > down) while plugging it like mad (get the perceived value up). And > here we are, surrounded by piles of junk that your average luser > thinks is wonderful. Blech. Yep. Windoze XP. -- | Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | OS/2 | Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | linux __ | 7,703' -- 2,345m | frontier.net | DM68mn SK ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 18:07:27 -0700 Organization: Systematic Software Lines: 38 Message-ID: References: <9von3o$gi4$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <9vST7.18243$RE3.3744976@typhoon.southeast.rr.com> <9vp2ti$es8$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> <9vphs8$kol$1@panix3.panix.com> <9vt68q$mlg$1@top.mitre.org> Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: h-207-148-131-127.dial.cadvision.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.cadvision.com 1008983249 17577 207.148.131.127 (22 Dec 2001 01:07:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cadvision.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 01:07:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!nntp.cadvision.com!207.228.64.17.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97432 On 20 Dec 2001 17:14:02 GMT, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >Nick Spalding writes: > >>John Francis wrote, in <9vphs8$kol$1@panix3.panix.com>: > >>> Phil Weldon wrote: > >>> >Model 25____microcode in RAM; the Model 25 could run as a low end System 360 >>> >by default at boot, or a card deck could load a different set of microcode >>> >that let the Model 25 run native 1401 code (variable field length, extra >>> >field bit, and a pattern for record end.) > >>It could be run either as low end 360/30 or as a *really* low end >>360/20. It even supported the dreaded MFCM whose number escapes me - >>was it 2560? > >Yep. > >Question for the group: did *anyone* in IBM consider how customers would >transform the initials "MFCM"? (The official IBM name for the box was >the "Multi-Function Card Machine.") > >And did the staff at any installation cursed with the presence of an >MFCM ever think of it using the official IBM name as opposed to the >unofficial one that also mapped to "MFCM?" I'm sure they did -- it may even have been deliberate -- did you never have a session with a CE or SE where they (often rudely) expanded their acronyms (sounds painful). Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov spam traps ###### From: Peter N. M. Hansteen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 23 Dec 2001 22:16:41 +0100 Organization: Only to a certain degree Lines: 17 Sender: peter@tosh Message-ID: <87ofkpeix2.fsf@bgnett.no> References: <3c176ab3.2691865@news.powersurfr.com> <3C17F3C5.31344537@ev1.net> <3c183443.2495456@news.powersurfr.com> <3C18C293.E0C97A0B@cisco.com> <3C191AF3.AC2AA8C@ev1.net> <9vcocl$9um$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9vfeq2$d55$11@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.54.107.19 X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1009142328 19569910 194.54.107.19 (16 [67457]) X-Orig-Path: 127.0.0.1!nobody Original-Sender: peter@bgnett.no X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!194.54.107.19!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97521 jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > I disagree. The ideal number of people is 3. Two to do the > work of the implementation and the third to ensure sanity > checks. Another data point: Alan Cox (of Linux fame -- way too young to count in this group ;) ) keeps saying that the magic number in the open source projects he has been observing is six. Groups of six or less are small enough that everyone can actually keep a reasonable communication with everybody else on important things. Then again, our group of seven seems to do OK, at least when I'm off doing Things That Need To Be Done at customer sites. -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team ###### From: Joel Gallun Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Blinking lights Date: 26 Dec 2001 11:13:55 -0500 Organization: AOL Time Warner Lines: 14 Sender: snake@severn.office.aol.com Message-ID: References: <9v5b1u$3vi$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9va6lh$33p$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C18C583.596F46E7@cisco.com> <9vcnlp$9um$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1176.748T2177T7505598@sky.bus.com> <9vero3$r3u$1@knossos.btinternet.com> <3C1E8AD8.C135CAAA@ev1.net> <0tss1u00rbqqn0kjjeu3bfq2f9u1jsv62v@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: severn.office.aol.com X-Trace: inntp-m1.news.aol.com 1009383235 5857 10.0.34.253 (26 Dec 2001 16:13:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@aol.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 16:13:55 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!nntp-internal.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97686 D.J. writes: > []It's obvious that you are *not* familiar with the armed forces > []People are *not* plug-in units...except in the armed forces. this is the theory > I disagree. I was an electronic tech. Even amongst the ones who were > the same rank I was, ETR3, the skill sets were not the same. Nor the > ability to find the problem. This is the reality. Joel