From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: DDJ how did they get the title- was Re: Call for folklore Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:21:39 -0000 Message-ID: <1006773700.27095.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <20011105075750.7b396422.steveo@eircom.net> <9tc6uh$1mo8$2@news.cybercity.dk> <9te57f02fv5@enews1.newsguy.com> <3BFAFEFA.C8B0FE42@ev1.net> <9tgrv80v6p@enews4.newsguy.com> <3BFCEFCF.15F79F14@ev1.net> <9toqhv020br@enews1.newsguy.com> <9tqr3o$qb9$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C00F2C6.1943BC25@yahoo.com> Reply-To: "Peter Ibbotson" NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1006773700 nnrp-12:27095 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95146 "CBFalconer" wrote in message news:3C00F2C6.1943BC25@yahoo.com... > Until they got 'religion' it was "Dr. Dobbs Journal of Computer > Calisthenics and Orthodontia". Why did they pick that name? I remember ordering some of the back issues (the collated early volumes) through my local library and getting very strange looks from the librarian. (Probably circa 1984-5 for some of the articles written by Woz for the Apple ][) -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DDJ how did they get the title- was Re: Call for folklore Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:16:32 -0000 Message-ID: <1006784193.20608.0.nnrp-14.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <20011105075750.7b396422.steveo@eircom.net> <9tc6uh$1mo8$2@news.cybercity.dk> <9te57f02fv5@enews1.newsguy.com> <3BFAFEFA.C8B0FE42@ev1.net> <9tgrv80v6p@enews4.newsguy.com> <3BFCEFCF.15F79F14@ev1.net> <9toqhv020br@enews1.newsguy.com> <9tqr3o$qb9$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C00F2C6.1943BC25@yahoo.com> <1006773700.27095.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9tthb3$4ko1n$1@ID-81734.news.dfncis.de> Reply-To: "Peter Ibbotson" NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1006784193 nnrp-14:20608 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Lines: 36 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95147 "Ralph Wade Phillips" wrote in message news:9tthb3$4ko1n$1@ID-81734.news.dfncis.de... > Howdy! > > "Peter Ibbotson" wrote in message > news:1006773700.27095.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk... > > "CBFalconer" wrote in message > > news:3C00F2C6.1943BC25@yahoo.com... > > > Until they got 'religion' it was "Dr. Dobbs Journal of Computer > > > Calisthenics and Orthodontia". > > > > > > Why did they pick that name? > > "Running Light Without Overbyte". > > DDJ was first formed to publish a Tiny BASIC interpreter. It was > designed to be portable to smaller processors such as the 1802 (hence the > "Running Light"), and it would fit in, IIRC, 4K of RAM ("without Overbyte"). > > (Is it not frightening that I did NOT have to even THINK about it to > remember that?) > > RwP Arrrgghhh... Obvious really. Still why Dr Dobbs? -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DDJ how did they get the title- was Re: Call for folklore Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:18:55 -0000 Message-ID: <1006784336.20666.0.nnrp-14.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <20011105075750.7b396422.steveo@eircom.net> <9tc6uh$1mo8$2@news.cybercity.dk> <9te57f02fv5@enews1.newsguy.com> <3BFAFEFA.C8B0FE42@ev1.net> <9tgrv80v6p@enews4.newsguy.com> <3BFCEFCF.15F79F14@ev1.net> <9toqhv020br@enews1.newsguy.com> <9tqr3o$qb9$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C00F2C6.1943BC25@yahoo.com> <1006773700.27095.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9tthb3$4ko1n$1@ID-81734.news.dfncis.de> <1006784193.20608.0.nnrp-14.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: "Peter Ibbotson" NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1006784336 nnrp-14:20666 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Lines: 16 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news1.ebone.net!news.ebone.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95148 "Peter Ibbotson" wrote in message news:1006784193.20608.0.nnrp-14.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk... > > Arrrgghhh... Obvious really. Still why Dr Dobbs? > Actually the website has all this on it, but requires a login to get more information. -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DDJ how did they get the title- was Re: Call for folklore Date: 26 Nov 2001 11:25:58 -0700 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 11 Message-ID: <1b8zct4ceh.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <20011105075750.7b396422.steveo@eircom.net> <9tc6uh$1mo8$2@news.cybercity.dk> <9te57f02fv5@enews1.newsguy.com> <3BFAFEFA.C8B0FE42@ev1.net> <9tgrv80v6p@enews4.newsguy.com> <3BFCEFCF.15F79F14@ev1.net> <9toqhv020br@enews1.newsguy.com> <9tqr3o$qb9$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C00F2C6.1943BC25@yahoo.com> <1006773700.27095.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9tthb3$4ko1n$1@ID-81734.news.dfncis.de> <1006784193.20608.0.nnrp-14.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 1006799155 6769 128.123.64.113 (26 Nov 2001 18:25:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Nov 2001 18:25:55 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsmi-eu.news.garr.it!newsmi-us.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95111 "Peter Ibbotson" writes: > > Arrrgghhh... Obvious really. Still why Dr Dobbs? AFAIK, it was a joke -- ``Dr. Dobbs' Journal of Computer Calisthenics and Orthodontia.'' -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Michael Black Subject: Re: DDJ how did they get the title- was Re: Call for folklore In-Reply-To: <1006773700.27095.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: References: <20011105075750.7b396422.steveo@eircom.net> <9tc6uh$1mo8$2@news.cybercity.dk> <9te57f02fv5@enews1.newsguy.com> <3BFAFEFA.C8B0FE42@ev1.net> <9tgrv80v6p@enews4.newsguy.com> <3BFCEFCF.15F79F14@ev1.net> <9toqhv020br@enews1.newsguy.com> <9tqr3o$qb9$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C00F2C6.1943BC25@yahoo.com> <1006773700.27095.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Forwarded: by - (DeleGate/7.3.0) Lines: 41 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:04:31 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.168.100.62 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 1006807996 198.168.100.62 (Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:53:16 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:53:16 EST Organization: UUNET Canada News Reader Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!gloria.cam.org!blackm00 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95289 On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Peter Ibbotson wrote: > "CBFalconer" wrote in message > news:3C00F2C6.1943BC25@yahoo.com... > > Until they got 'religion' it was "Dr. Dobbs Journal of Computer > > Calisthenics and Orthodontia". > > > Why did they pick that name? I remember ordering some of the back issues > (the collated early volumes) through my local library and getting very > strange looks from the librarian. (Probably circa 1984-5 for some of the > articles written by Woz for the Apple ][) > "Fire in the Valley" says "Dobb's came from a collapsing of Allison's and Albrecht's first names, Dennis and Bob. The rest of the title was a computer in-joke about 'running light without overbyte'." One important thing is that the magazine did not come out of the Popular Electronics hobbyist territory. Before there were home computers, Bob Albrecht was trying to get people, maybe particularly kids, hooked on computers. That was The People's Computer Company. It has more to do with the Whole Earth Catalog and the San Francisco scene than the electronic hobbyist. They had a computer center, and a magazine. When the Altair came along, they wanted a BASIC interpreter for it, because that was what they were already doing, though on mini or mainframe computers. Dr. Dobbs was supposed to be only a single shot, to get a BASIC interpreter out there, but then it became a long-term magazine; it must be the oldest computer magazine in existence. So such a long and non-sensical name is the sort of thing that would come out of such a counter-culture based group. I've never seen originals of those early issues, but I do have the reprints that came out in book form, and they do have an old-time feel; certainly they were not a slick magazine in the early days. Michael ###### From: "Bob Powell" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <20011105075750.7b396422.steveo@eircom.net> <9tc6uh$1mo8$2@news.cybercity.dk> <9te57f02fv5@enews1.newsguy.com> <3BFAFEFA.C8B0FE42@ev1.net> <9tgrv80v6p@enews4.newsguy.com> <3BFCEFCF.15F79F14@ev1.net> <9toqhv020br@enews1.newsguy.com> <9tqr3o$qb9$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C00F2C6.1943BC25@yahoo.com> <1006773700.27095.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: DDJ how did they get the title- was Re: Call for folklore Lines: 69 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <5TBM7.2236$gz3.1013076@bcandid.telisphere.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:20:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.191.130.91 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1006824001 206.191.130.91 (Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:20:01 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:20:01 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95278 "Michael Black" wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.4.10.10111261551280.3822-100000@gloria.cam.org... > > > On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Peter Ibbotson wrote: > > > "CBFalconer" wrote in message > > news:3C00F2C6.1943BC25@yahoo.com... > > > Until they got 'religion' it was "Dr. Dobbs Journal of Computer > > > Calisthenics and Orthodontia". > > > > > > Why did they pick that name? I remember ordering some of the back issues > > (the collated early volumes) through my local library and getting very > > strange looks from the librarian. (Probably circa 1984-5 for some of the > > articles written by Woz for the Apple ][) > > > "Fire in the Valley" says > "Dobb's came from a collapsing of Allison's and Albrecht's first names, > Dennis and Bob. The rest of the title was a computer in-joke > about 'running light without overbyte'." > > One important thing is that the magazine did not come out of the > Popular Electronics hobbyist territory. Before there were home > computers, Bob Albrecht was trying to get people, maybe particularly > kids, hooked on computers. That was The People's Computer Company. > It has more to do with the Whole Earth Catalog and the San Francisco > scene than the electronic hobbyist. They had a computer center, > and a magazine. When the Altair came along, they wanted a BASIC > interpreter for it, because that was what they were already doing, > though on mini or mainframe computers. Dr. Dobbs was supposed > to be only a single shot, to get a BASIC interpreter out there, > but then it became a long-term magazine; it must be the oldest > computer magazine in existence. So such a long and non-sensical > name is the sort of thing that would come out of such a counter-culture > based group. I've never seen originals of those early issues, but > I do have the reprints that came out in book form, and they do > have an old-time feel; certainly they were not a slick magazine > in the early days. > > Michael Good telling of the DDJ start. I was a charter subscriber and have the first 5 years or so but the memory is a bit fuzzy. First few issues were photocopied 8-1/2x11 typewritten pages. The first holy-grail "Tiny BASIC" appeared +- the 4th issue, I remember that part because I typed in the entire hex dump to run it on my Altair, and left it powered up for a week on account of having no paper tape or casette, nevermind a floppy to save it out. That came soon enough after. It's not that there was no BASIC, there was Microsoft of course, but even the MS 4K BASIC cost too much and took more ram than most folks had whereas the DDJ BASIC ran in under 1K. Apologies if I have the name or the association wrong, but I believe that first DDJ BASIC was written by Eric Mueller, who was about 16 at the time, I crossed paths with him a few years later when he was at MIT. Again it's blurry, that BASIC had 26 variables - A to Z, integer math, minimal formatting but it was a great step up from hand-compiled 8080 assembler. Still have a box of crumbling PCC newspapers from about '74 to '76 with its BASIC games, early Bay Area computing folklore, Whole Earth, Ted Nelson stuff etc. Albrecht and Allison and co. were good people, I looked forward to each issue, lots of fun. Did anyone ever write a book about the PCC folks? Bob ###### From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <20011105075750.7b396422.steveo@eircom.net> <9tc6uh$1mo8$2@news.cybercity.dk> <9te57f02fv5@enews1.newsguy.com> <3BFAFEFA.C8B0FE42@ev1.net> <9tgrv80v6p@enews4.newsguy.com> <3BFCEFCF.15F79F14@ev1.net> <9toqhv020br@enews1.newsguy.com> <9tqr3o$qb9$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C00F2C6.1943BC25@yahoo.com> <1006773700.27095.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: DDJ how did they get the title- was Re: Call for folklore Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:37:27 -0500 Lines: 19 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 Message-ID: <3c07fc17$1_1@news.iglou.com> X-Trace: news.iglou.com 1007156247 204.250.0.238 (30 Nov 2001 16:37:27 -0500) X-Authenticated-User: dougq X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!198.6.0.7!uunet!ash.uu.net!news.iglou.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95561 "Michael Black" wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.4.10.10111261551280.3822-100000@gloria.cam.org... > Dr. Dobbs was supposed > to be only a single shot, to get a BASIC interpreter out there, > but then it became a long-term magazine; it must be the oldest > computer magazine in existence. So such a long and non-sensical > name is the sort of thing that would come out of such a counter-culture > based group. I've never seen originals of those early issues, but > I do have the reprints that came out in book form, and they do > have an old-time feel; certainly they were not a slick magazine > in the early days. I missed issue #1, but have kept my copies of #2 and #3... is a scan of the covers called for? -dq