Message-ID: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> From: Kate Orman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:55:52 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.23.147.10 X-Complaints-To: news@pacific.net.au X-Trace: nasal.pacific.net.au 1006754123 210.23.147.10 (Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:55:23 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:55:23 EST Organization: Pacific Internet (Australia) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.interpacket.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!nasal.pacific.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95101 Hi! I'm writing a novel set around Christmas 1981. The story involves cracking (aka hacking) computers, as well as phone phreaking. I've read a bunch of net history online and in books (and I'm hugely enjoying reading a.f.c), but I still need help with specific details of what the net was like at the time - for instance, what did computers' addresses look like before domain names. I've got someone trying to telnet to port 25 and I'm not even sure you could *do* that then. I'd be extremely grateful for any help or pointers! Many thanks, - Kate Orman http://www.zip.com.au/~korman/butterfly/ ###### Message-ID: <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:26:38 -0800 From: Lars Poulsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: da,en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers To: Kate Orman Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 43 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.154.106.6 X-Trace: azure.impulse.net 1006755929 188 207.154.106.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!sienna.impulse.net!azure.impulse.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95106 Kate Orman wrote: >Hi! I'm writing a novel set around Christmas 1981. The story involves >cracking (aka hacking) computers, as well as phone phreaking. I've read >a bunch of net history online and in books (and I'm hugely enjoying >reading a.f.c), but I still need help with specific details of what the >net was like at the time - for instance, what did computers' addresses >look like before domain names. I've got someone trying to telnet to port >25 and I'm not even sure you could *do* that then. I'd be extremely >grateful for any help or pointers! > Fall of 1981 is not too distant from when I got on the 'net, so maybe I can help you a bit. By 1981, the network was solidly TCP/IP, and FTP, telnet and SMTP were firmly in place, but of course WWW was about a decade into the future. No network-capable personal computers. There were a lot of PDP-11/70 running V7 unix, and also a large number of PDP-10's running BBN TENEX at universities with research grants. The ethernet was quite new, and universities were beginning to set up local area networks, linking department Unix systems to the data centers with the ARPANET connections. The domain name system was not yet operational. Host names were short: MIT-LCS, UCLA, ACC. The host name file was about 1000 lines long, and updates came out about once per week. MIT-LCS still had free guest accounts: If you knew who to ask, you could get a guest account on the PDP-10 at Tech Square, even if you had no academic affiliation t MIT. I knew someone who was a programmer in a commercial shop in Santa Barbara, who talked himself into such an account. You may want to read Steven Levy's "Hackers". ###### From: Patrick Scheible Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> Reply-To: kkt@serv.net User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990413 ("Endemoniada") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.2-RELEASE (i386)) Message-ID: <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> Cache-Post-Path: dns2.serv.net!unknown@itchy.serv.net X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 100 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:39:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.201.191.2 X-Trace: newsfeed.slurp.net 1006763985 199.201.191.2 (Mon, 26 Nov 2001 02:39:45 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 02:39:45 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.slurp.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95100 Lars Poulsen wrote: > Kate Orman wrote: >>Hi! I'm writing a novel set around Christmas 1981. The story involves >>cracking (aka hacking) computers, as well as phone phreaking. I've read >>a bunch of net history online and in books (and I'm hugely enjoying >>reading a.f.c), but I still need help with specific details of what the >>net was like at the time - for instance, what did computers' addresses >>look like before domain names. I've got someone trying to telnet to port >>25 and I'm not even sure you could *do* that then. I'd be extremely >>grateful for any help or pointers! >> > Fall of 1981 is not too distant from when I got on the 'net, so maybe I > can help you a bit. > By 1981, the network was solidly TCP/IP, and FTP, telnet and SMTP were > firmly in > place, but of course WWW was about a decade into the future. I don't think the switchover from NCP to TCP was complete until the end of 1982. Yes the web and even gopher was well in the future. There were anonymous FTP sites, though. > No network-capable personal computers. There were a lot of PDP-11/70 > running V7 unix, and also a large number of PDP-10's running BBN > TENEX at universities with research grants. The ethernet was quite > new, and universities were beginning to set up local area networks, > linking department Unix systems to the data centers with the ARPANET > connections. Right, with a personal computer you would typically dial in to a University server by phone. The modems were 1200 baud then, (possibly 2400?), cost a few hundred $, and the width and depth of a shoebox and about half as tall. Some universities had PDP-10s running TOPS-20 as well as Tenex. There were still significant numbers that ran IBM mainframe shops, too -- submit your deck of punch cards, come back in a few hours, and see if it ran or if you suffered a syntax error. (Not always IBM equipment, sometimes clones or Cyber etc.) There were Xerox Altos in labs at Stanford and some other schools that had direct ethernet connections, so if your action takes place at some big-name school you might have some of those around. > The domain name system was not yet operational. Host names were short: > MIT-LCS, > UCLA, ACC. The host name file was about 1000 lines long, and updates > came out > about once per week. I thought it was daily, but maybe that was later. Unix's UUCP network-on-the-cheap was still in active use, too. You could route your e-mail quite a long way, but the author had to specify the whole routing path, at least from some major site down to the ultimate destination host. You'd separate the hosts with exclamation marks and the user's account name last: To: decvax!decwrl!sun!calma!joe Some of the links only connected by phone as little as once a day, so some mail took a few days to propogate, depending on the route. Most everywhere knew how to route to a few major hosts like decvax and ucbvax. Other networks had their own addressing protocols. DECnet was used a lot in academic circles. Sometimes there were local hacks set up to you could send out mail over either protocol and the router would (try to) figure out which network it should go over; addresses could look pretty messy. There were mailing list discussion groups kind of like Usenet today, only with less spam, no commercial traffic, and even more upper-middle-class male bias. There were also BBSs run off of microcomputers by hobbyists. Individuals with PCs or dumb terminals would dial in. Lots of discussion. Many of them charged at least a little bit to pay for their modem pools. Some of them had lots of phone phreaks and computer hackers exchanging numbers and info, some malicious and some just looking around. They'd almost always be local, because long distance phone charges would eat you alive -- this was way before you could get long distance for 5 cents a minute! > MIT-LCS still had free guest accounts: If you knew who to ask, you > could get a guest account on the PDP-10 at Tech Square, even if you > had no academic affiliation t MIT. I knew someone who was a > programmer in a commercial shop in Santa Barbara, who talked himself > into such an account. There weren't commercial ISPs aimed at individuals like there are now, so academic computer centers were a lot laxer about giving their friends accounts, not making accounts expire as soon as their academic affiliation was over, etc. > You may want to read Steven Levy's "Hackers". -- Patrick Scheible ###### From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 26 Nov 2001 06:52:58 -0800 Organization: Stonehenge Consulting Services; Portland, Oregon, USA Message-ID: References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 51 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95133 >>>>> "Patrick" == Patrick Scheible writes: Patrick> There were mailing list discussion groups kind of like Usenet today, Patrick> only with less spam, no commercial traffic, and even more Patrick> upper-middle-class male bias. Well, even Usenet was up and running. Here's the map of the net around that time (and I was reading via the "teklabs" link)... ================================================== Newsgroups: NET.general After welcoming several new sites to Usenet, I'm enclosing the current map. Any sites which are missing or wrong please let me know. USENET Logical Map June 1, 1981 !- Uucp links : Berknet links @ Arpanet links pdp (Misc) ! (NC) (Misc) decvax sii reed phs--unc--grumpy duke34 utzoo cincy teklabs ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! +--+----+-----+-+--+-------------+-------+------+ ! ! ! ! ! duke ! ! ! ! ! +------+---+-----------------------+--------+ ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ucbopt ! hocsr--mhtsa----research allegra harpo-----chico : ! ! ! ! ucbcory ! ! eagle ihnss vax135 (Bell Labs) (UCB) : ! ! ! ! ! ucbvax--++----------+--+--+-----+--+------+--------+ : @ ! ! ! (Silicon Valley) ucbarpa @ (UCSD) sdcsvax ! menlo70--hao : @ sdcattb-----+ ! ! ! ucbonyx @ +-----ucsfcgl sytek sri-unix @ phonlab-----+ cca-unix sdcarl ================================================== -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training! ###### Message-ID: <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 44 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:54:16 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.183.111 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1006790056 12.90.183.111 (Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:54:16 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:54:16 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95155 Kate Orman wrote: > > Hi! I'm writing a novel set around Christmas 1981. The story involves > cracking (aka hacking) computers, as well as phone phreaking. I've read > a bunch of net history online and in books (and I'm hugely enjoying > reading a.f.c), but I still need help with specific details of what the > net was like at the time - for instance, what did computers' addresses > look like before domain names. I've got someone trying to telnet to port > 25 and I'm not even sure you could *do* that then. I'd be extremely > grateful for any help or pointers! > http://www.zip.com.au/~korman/butterfly/ Very little internet usage then. However BBS's were functional, and Fidonet was in existance (or coming on line - not sure now). I spent over $400 on a state of the art 1200 baud USRobotics Passport modem around 1983. Xmodem was the file transfer method of choice, and Zmodem appeared around that time. 300 baud modems were the common thing. Fidonet provided both newsgroups and e-mail. It was built to minimize phone costs, using scheduled file and message transfer times around 4 or 5 a.m. when charges were minimized, and using ARC to compress everything for transfer. Fidonet was for the brand new IBM PC world, not the CP/M world. You generally did your communication using MDM7 for interactive work, and BYE for RCPM access (remote CPM, access to the bulletin board under CP/M). The access addresses were basically phone numbers. Floppy disks provided most of the storage. Some rare systems had great big 5 Meg hard drives. Osborne, Kaypro, Televideo and Apples with CP/M cards were the popular systems, with things like CompuPro for larger systems. S100 was relatively expensive. Most machines with 2 floppy disks (some the new fangled 5" minidisks, others with the better performing 8" drives) cost about $2000 up. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### From: kyork Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:46:37 -0800 Organization: Cisco Systems Inc. Message-ID: <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.5) Gecko/20011012 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: sj-nntpcache-5!unknown@dhcp-171-71-66-138.cisco.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 40 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95154 Greetings, Patrick Scheible wrote: > Lars Poulsen wrote: > > Right, with a personal computer you would typically dial in to a > University server by phone. The modems were 1200 baud then, (possibly > 2400?), cost a few hundred $, and the width and depth of a shoebox and > about half as tall. Ack! 1200 baud? My failing memory has them at 300 baud totally manual (none of this auto dial stuff) & really flaky, even if you ignore the acoustic couplers. > > There weren't commercial ISPs aimed at individuals like there are now, > so academic computer centers were a lot laxer about giving their > friends accounts, not making accounts expire as soon as their academic > affiliation was over, etc. There was ``Compuserve'' and ``the Source'' both of which had local numbers in many areas. Not really ISPs as such (since none connected to the I), but they did provide a bunch of features, albeit at an astronomically high price. > > >>You may want to read Steven Levy's "Hackers". >> Also, parts of ``War Games'' were fairly correct for the time, ignoring of course the talking computer. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 From: eijkhout@cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:57:55 -0500 Message-ID: <1f3ha31.rip3281bx3fnkN%eijkhout@cs.utk.edu> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4.6 NNTP-Posting-Host: news.utk.edu Lines: 10 Organization: University of Tennessee Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!newsfeed.utk.edu!news.utk.edu!eijkhout Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95143 Kate Orman wrote: > net was like at the time - for instance, what did computers' addresses > look like before domain names. A good number of machines was on Bitnet. IBMs and Vaxes, I seem to recall. A single name identified the machine. I was u641007 AT hnykun11, iirc. And VM/CMS indeed understood it if you wrote that "AT". V. ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 57 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:07:51 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.245.13.149 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1006794471 209.245.13.149 (Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:07:51 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:07:51 PST X-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:03:35 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95121 Lars Poulsen writes: > Fall of 1981 is not too distant from when I got on the 'net, so maybe > I can help you a bit. By 1981, the network was solidly TCP/IP, and > FTP, telnet and SMTP were firmly in place, but of course WWW was about > a decade into the future. arpanet had tcp, ftp, telnet, etc. but was not "IP" until the great cut-over of jan 1, 1983. There were host to host protocols, host to IMP protocols, with NCP, IMP, TIP, etc. and around 250 network nodes at the time of the cut-over. Computers didn't directly connect to the network, the network was composed of IMPs and TIPs ... the IMPs provided the interface for host/mainframe computers. The TIPs (terminal interface processors) allowed management of terminals connected to the network where the terminals didn't have to connect to the network thru some host/mainframe. for a replay of a little of this see: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm various references to the cut-over: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#81 36-bit MIME types, PDP-10 FTP http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#4 what makes a cpu fast http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#16 Pre ARPAnet email? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#7 YKYGOW... http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#28 Title Inflation http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#50 Title Inflation http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#34 Processor Modes http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#35 Processor Modes various CSNET references (primarily "phonenet" connections for offline queued message transfer): http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#59 Ok Computer http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#7 IBM S/360 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#37a Internet and/or ARPANET? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#37b Internet and/or ARPANET? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#38c Internet and/or ARPANET? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#58 Is Al Gore The Father of the Internet? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#72 When the Internet went private http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#77 Is Al Gore The Father of the Internet?^ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#11 Is Al Gore The Father of the Internet?^ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#18 Is Al Gore The Father of the Internet?^ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#19 Is Al Gore The Father of the Internet?^ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#51 Al Gore and the Internet (Part 2 of 2) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#76 Stoopidest Hardware Repair Call? specific extract from history http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#72 some email from Dec '82 about the tcp/ip cut-over on 1/1/83: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#18 -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 27 Nov 01 10:22:28 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: <718.731T1405T6225042@sky.bus.com> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> <3C031CFF.14FDF29C@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-523.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!193.190.198.17.MISMATCH!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!209.155.233.16!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95177 In article <3C031CFF.14FDF29C@gazonk.del> fubar@gazonk.del (Foobar T. Clown) writes: >kyork wrote: > >> Ack! 1200 baud? Nak! 1200 bps. This _is_ a.f.c, after all, and there are plenty of curmudgeons like me who will make sure you get it right. In those days, I would troll with my tagline: "600 baud and proud of it!" The beauty of this one was that when I upgraded to 2400 bps, I didn't have to change it. It was a few years further on before I upgraded to 2400 baud (i.e. 9600 bps). -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 26 Nov 01 12:13:56 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 13 Message-ID: <445.730T2808T7336377@sky.bus.com> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-822.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!uucp.muenster.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95180 In article <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> kyork@cisco.com (kyork) writes: >Also, parts of ``War Games'' were fairly correct for the time, ignoring >of course the talking computer. ...and the 9600-bps acoustic couplers. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 27 Nov 01 10:30:57 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 26 Message-ID: <1003.731T2887T6306640@sky.bus.com> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-524.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95183 In article mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) writes: >Hmm. Let's locate a Byte from the period; December 1981 had a front >page story on Computer Games; and a pinball-electronics clone >in the front illustration (called Hex Angels). > >I see 300 baud modems advertised for $150; expect to pay upwards of >$350 for a 1200 bps (600 'baud') modem. Sounds right. I paid $150 for my first 300-baud modem. A little earlier (1980) I remember noting that the price of modems had fallen from $1 US per bps to $1 Canadian. Yup, a 1200-bps modem (e.g. Bell 212) was about $1200, a 2400-bps modem (e.g. Bell 201) was about $2000, and if you really wanted 9600 bps you could get it, but it would cost you ten grand. How times have changed... -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 27 Nov 01 10:39:49 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 25 Message-ID: <1078.731T2452T6395481@sky.bus.com> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <87lmgt8k19.fsf@prep.synonet.com> <3C031FCC.8392E498@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-525.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95185 In article <3C031FCC.8392E498@gazonk.del> fubar@gazonk.del (Foobar T. Clown) writes: >Carnegie-Mellon University had an Ethernet when I arrived there in 1979. >It didn't have any kind of character generation hardware -- All of the >characters that appeared on the screen had to be drawn by software, and >there were different styles of characters (called "fonts") that you >could use. The weirdest/coolest part was this graphics input device. >It sat on this little mat, and you pushed it around with your hand, >and an arrow moved around on the screen as if it was connected. There >were three buttons on top of the thing that you could press to cause >commands to be performed on the graphic object that was under the >little arrow. They called the thing a "mouse." Now I _know_ you're trolling. Microsoft hadn't invented it yet. :-) -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 01 11:21:04 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9u041r$et3$5@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZHtSQyGzHE0O+7PZ3Ycuqks6c0LzmC7+BKMzJjXy9cUe+ihea/Ozwn X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Nov 2001 13:22:03 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-112 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95205 In article <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net>, Patrick Scheible wrote: >Lars Poulsen wrote: >Other networks had their own addressing protocols. DECnet was used a >lot in academic circles. Not in 1981. If they had a PDP-10 and running TOPS-10, they were using ANF-10. DECnet Phase II wasn't a very interesting protocol w.r.t. networking. (It clunked rather than when swish!). /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 01 11:24:13 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 29 Message-ID: <9u047p$et3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZdKJXKVaVLOzV2EZEL4bKojBgXS9LPhYXZg6ABErSjLJ520qWnB2ic X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Nov 2001 13:25:13 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!news-xfer.siscom.net!feed1.newsreader.com!netnews.com!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-112 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95206 In article <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com>, kyork wrote: >Greetings, > >Patrick Scheible wrote: > >> Lars Poulsen wrote: >> >> Right, with a personal computer you would typically dial in to a >> University server by phone. The modems were 1200 baud then, (possibly >> 2400?), cost a few hundred $, and the width and depth of a shoebox and >> about half as tall. > > >Ack! 1200 baud? My failing memory has them at 300 baud totally manual >(none of this auto dial stuff) & really flaky, even if you ignore the >acoustic couplers. And told the operator that it was a data call. Although, I don't remember having to do that in 1981. We certainly had to do it in the 70s. In those days, operators would interpret computers peeping at each other as a broken line and cut your phone off at the second when you were almost done with whatever you were doing. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Sender: prep@k9 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> From: Paul Repacholi Message-ID: <87lmgt8k19.fsf@prep.synonet.com> Lines: 32 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Organization: iQnet Cache-Post-Path: angelina.pe!unknown@p168.perth01.dial.usertools.net X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Cache-Post-Path: news.satix.net!unknown@news.core.usertools.net X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.satix.net X-Trace: ozemail.com.au 1006817250 203.132.96.3 (Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:27:30 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:27:30 EST Distribution: world Date: 27 Nov 2001 02:27:30 +0800 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!sjcppf01!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sjc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.ozemail.com.au!ozemail.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95249 Lars Poulsen writes: > Kate Orman wrote: > >Hi! I'm writing a novel set around Christmas 1981. The story > >involves cracking (aka hacking) computers, as well as phone > >phreaking. I've read > Fall of 1981 is not too distant from when I got on the 'net, so > maybe I can help you a bit. By 1981, the network was solidly > TCP/IP, and FTP, telnet and SMTP were firmly in place, but of course > WWW was about a decade into the future. > No network-capable personal computers. There were a lot of PDP-11/70 > running V7 unix, and also a large number of PDP-10's running BBN > TENEX at universities with research grants. The ethernet was quite > new, and universities were beginning to set up local area networks, > linking department Unix systems to the data centers with the ARPANET > connections. 81-82 is a bit early for ethernet, that was still 12-18 months away although there would have been some in odd places. The bulk of networking was in easynet (DEC), IBMs internal network(s?), and some comercial networks. It was FAR more varied than it is now. -- Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be. ###### From: rsteiner@isis.visi.com (Richard C. Steiner) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> Organization: Vector Internet Services, Inc. Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Lines: 19 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:20:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.98.98.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@visi.com X-Trace: ruti.visi.com 1006802411 209.98.98.8 (Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:20:11 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:20:11 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!209.98.98.64!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!ruti.visi.com!rsteiner Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95271 In article <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com>, CBFalconer wrote: >Very little internet usage then. However BBS's were functional, >and Fidonet was in existance (or coming on line - not sure now). According to our local 1:282 web site, FidoNet wasn't formed until 1984. You can read a lot of documentation (some Twin Cities specific, but much of it general documentation about Fido) here: http:///www.rxn.com/~net282 (Note: I didn't get involved with BBSes or nets like Fido and RIME until 1989, so I'm trusting the above site to be accurate ). -- -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN Written online using slrn 0.9.5.4! The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then. ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 58 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:49:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.156.34.166 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1006804162 64.156.34.166 (Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:49:22 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:49:22 PST X-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:45:04 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95236 kyork writes: > There was ``Compuserve'' and ``the Source'' both of which had local > numbers in many areas. Not really ISPs as such (since none connected > to the I), but they did provide a bunch of features, albeit at an > astronomically high price. there were also a number of commercial online services ... including several vm/cms online systems like tymshare, interactive data corporation, ncss, etc. tymshare also operated tymnet, a packet network with POPs in lots of places and provided connectivity services to more than tymshare (i.e. various universities and corporations had tymnet connectivity for things like terminal access around the world). somewhere in that time-frame there was other ibm-mainframe platform online services, dialog (world-wide library search system), lexis/nexis (world-wide legal & publicaction search system), and national library of medicine. NLM was initially developed using BDAM access method on ibm mainframes in the late '60s and for all I know still is a mainframe bdam application. In the early '80s, NLM had already run into the large database query problem; aka at about 5-8 query terms it became bi-model either returning tens of thousands of "hits" or zero "hits". The holy grail became how to formulate query strategy such that resulted in more than zero, put less than even large hundreds. Somewhere in the early 80s time-frame GratefulMed appeared (first I believe on apple) for NLM, where the query response was not the hits ... but the count of the hits. Qeuries were saved and strategy was to discover some query combo that resulted in reasonable number of hits. misc. online services references: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#26 Misc. more on bidirectional links http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#10 IBM S/360 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#37a Internet and/or ARPANET? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#150 Q: S/390 on PowerPC? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#71 When the Internet went private http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#20 Is Al Gore The Father of the Internet?^ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#69 TSS ancient history, was X86 ultimate CISC? designs) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#22 No more innovation? Get serious http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#31 stupid user stories http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#50 IBM 705 computer manual http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#67 What ever happened to WAIS? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#30 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#32 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#33 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#35 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#52 Compaq kills Alpha http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#35 D http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#59 Blinkenlights http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#27 History of Microsoft Word (and wordprocessing in general) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#1 Off-topic everywhere [was: Re: thee and thou http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#1 ASR33/35 Controls http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#44 Call for folklore - was Re: So it's cyclical. -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 21 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:54:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.245.12.109 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1006818894 209.245.12.109 (Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:54:54 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:54:54 PST X-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:50:38 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95234 kyork writes: > > Also, parts of ``War Games'' were fairly correct for the time, > ignoring of course the talking computer. and what looks more like a 407 tab accounting machine with lights and the side-slot for where the "plug-board" would be. random war game reference: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#39 Future hacks [was Re: RS/6000 ] some misc. 407 refs (including url pointers to 407 pictures): http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#137 Mainframe emulation http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#19 Computer of the century http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#20 Computer of the century http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#44 Al Gore and the Internet (Part 2 of 2) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#46 Al Gore and the Internet (Part 2 of 2) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#5 Emulation (was Re: Object code (was: Source code - couldn't resist compiling it :-)) -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> Organization: Me, Myself and I X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) From: mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) Originator: mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) Message-ID: Lines: 169 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 04:13:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.71.26.5 X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@KPNQwest.no X-Trace: nreader3.kpnqwest.net 1006834381 193.71.26.5 (Tue, 27 Nov 2001 05:13:01 MET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 05:13:01 MET Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newsfeed.esat.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!nreader3.kpnqwest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95270 In article <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net>, Patrick Scheible wrote: >Lars Poulsen wrote: >> Kate Orman wrote: > >>>Hi! I'm writing a novel set around Christmas 1981. The story involves >>>cracking (aka hacking) computers, as well as phone phreaking. I've read >>>a bunch of net history online and in books (and I'm hugely enjoying >>>reading a.f.c), but I still need help with specific details of what the >>>net was like at the time - for instance, what did computers' addresses >>>look like before domain names. I've got someone trying to telnet to port >>>25 and I'm not even sure you could *do* that then. I'd be extremely >>>grateful for any help or pointers! >>> >> Fall of 1981 is not too distant from when I got on the 'net, so maybe I >> can help you a bit. >> By 1981, the network was solidly TCP/IP, and FTP, telnet and SMTP were >> firmly in >> place, but of course WWW was about a decade into the future. RFC733 was the standard for {inter|arpa}net e-mail at the time; it appeared 21.november 1977; it uses e-mail that has appearance fairly like modern e-mail. Port 25 is SMTP; this was, as far as I can bring about, used first in May 1981; rfc780, with new issues in november 1981 and the final one in August of 1982. This last one lasted for a looong time; it is still a standard, but about to be replaced by RFC2821 from April; 2001. It is reasonable for such a period of rapid change in standards to have to do some manual protocol-interaction; so a telnet to port 25 would be very much historically correct. >I don't think the switchover from NCP to TCP was complete until the >end of 1982. Indeed; the three last issued RFC's from November 1981 (there were none issued in December) is RFC800, transition plan; rfc801 RFC801 NCP/TCP transition plan. J. Postel. RFC802 ARPANET 1822L Host Access Protocol. A.G. Malis. RFC803 Dacom 450/500 facsimile data transcoding. A. Agarwal, M.J. O'Connor, D.L. Mills. The last 'assigned numbers', RFC790, lists SMTP as port 25. (They can be found at etc; and are well worth to have a look at. ) The RFC802 is interesting; the old Arpanet kept up steam up to the very end. >Yes the web and even gopher was well in the future. There were >anonymous FTP sites, though. > >> No network-capable personal computers. There were a lot of PDP-11/70 >> running V7 unix, and also a large number of PDP-10's running BBN >> TENEX at universities with research grants. The ethernet was quite >> new, and universities were beginning to set up local area networks, >> linking department Unix systems to the data centers with the ARPANET >> connections. > >Right, with a personal computer you would typically dial in to a >University server by phone. The modems were 1200 baud then, (possibly >2400?), cost a few hundred $, and the width and depth of a shoebox and >about half as tall. Hmm. Let's locate a Byte from the period; December 1981 had a front page story on Computer Games; and a pinball-electronics clone in the front illustration (called Hex Angels). I see 300 baud modems advertised for $150; expect to pay upwards of $350 for a 1200 bps (600 'baud') modem. Apple ]['s for $1100-$2600 depending on configuration. Hayes smartmodem was $239. IBM PC's have heavy ads, but prices are a bit difficult to find. A Commodore ad compares against a IBM PC price of $1900. Memory was $300-$700 for a 64K board. (That is 65536 bytes). But I find ads for individual chips down to $79 for 64K bytes; from what seems like a short-lived outfit. >Some universities had PDP-10s running TOPS-20 as well as Tenex. There >were still significant numbers that ran IBM mainframe shops, too -- >submit your deck of punch cards, come back in a few hours, and see if >it ran or if you suffered a syntax error. (Not always IBM equipment, >sometimes clones or Cyber etc.) There were also a number of minicomputers around. DEC PDP11's, Pr1me, Data General, Wang, Norsk Data, Honeywell-Bull etc. >There were Xerox Altos in labs at Stanford and some other schools that >had direct ethernet connections, so if your action takes place at some >big-name school you might have some of those around. > >> The domain name system was not yet operational. Host names were short: >> MIT-LCS, >> UCLA, ACC. The host name file was about 1000 lines long, and updates >> came out >> about once per week. > >I thought it was daily, but maybe that was later. > >Unix's UUCP network-on-the-cheap was still in active use, too. You Killing off the pathalias database took hard efforts and convincing as late as 1996. I STILL know of some use of bangpaths in e-mail. > To: decvax!decwrl!sun!calma!joe I wouldn't be surprised if ..!mcsun!nuug!mrr still works. >Other networks had their own addressing protocols. DECnet was used a >lot in academic circles. Sometimes there were local hacks set up to >you could send out mail over either protocol and the router would (try >to) figure out which network it should go over; addresses could look >pretty messy. Such source-routed addresses could traverse several networks; and generate ugly addresses. > >There were mailing list discussion groups kind of like Usenet today, >only with less spam, no commercial traffic, and even more >upper-middle-class male bias. But usenet was still a few years away, I think. By 1986 it was well established worldwide though, and I remember a lot of discussion groups on mainframe discussion sites/and mailing lists as early as 1978. BBS's were growing rapidly by 1981. >There were also BBSs run off of microcomputers by hobbyists. >Individuals with PCs or dumb terminals would dial in. Lots of >discussion. Many of them charged at least a little bit to pay for >their modem pools. Some of them had lots of phone phreaks and >computer hackers exchanging numbers and info, some malicious and some >just looking around. They'd almost always be local, because long >distance phone charges would eat you alive -- this was way before you >could get long distance for 5 cents a minute! The mainframes had lot of large conferencing systems; like COM, BIX (which probably came a little later) compuserve and similar. Much like humongous BBS'es. >> MIT-LCS still had free guest accounts: If you knew who to ask, you >> could get a guest account on the PDP-10 at Tech Square, even if you >> had no academic affiliation t MIT. I knew someone who was a >> programmer in a commercial shop in Santa Barbara, who talked himself >> into such an account. > >There weren't commercial ISPs aimed at individuals like there are now, >so academic computer centers were a lot laxer about giving their >friends accounts, not making accounts expire as soon as their academic >affiliation was over, etc. UUnet was founded in the fall of 1981. That was the very first commercial ISP ever. I doubt they were operational with any ISP products we would recognise today before sometime in 1983 though. Also, there was still a gentleman's (very few women) aggreement about proper use of network rescources. I also remember that some professors agonized over the AUP's; they felt their academic freedom infringed. >> You may want to read Steven Levy's "Hackers". > >-- Patrick Scheible ###### Message-ID: <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 52 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 04:51:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.158.76.244 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 1006836703 141.158.76.244 (Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:51:43 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:51:43 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!typhoon1.gnilink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95160 CBFalconer wrote: > > Kate Orman wrote: > > > > Hi! I'm writing a novel set around Christmas 1981. [... I] need help > > with specific details of what the net was like at the time [...] > > Very little internet usage then. That depends on who and where you were. If you were a member of the computer science community at any of a small number of universities or government sites, then the net was hot stuff. I was a staffer at Carnegie-Mellon University at the time. I only used the net for e-mail, and most of that was on-campus, but I knew a number of people who depended on e-mail, FTP, and Telnet to other sites to get their work done. We had one (or maybe it was two) segments of Ethernet too. When I told a friend of mine at another university about Ethernet, he wouldn't believe me. He'd been taught that it was *NOT POSSIBLE* for computers to communicate at speeds greater than 56Kbps. > However BBS's were functional, Oh yeah. Those. > [...] Xmodem was the file transfer method of choice, Kermit! Kermit! Kermit! Kermit! > Floppy disks provided most of the storage. Some rare systems had > great big 5 Meg hard drives. And some systems had rows and rows of RP06 drives at 300 meg each; And sometime around that time (maybe not *QUITE* as early as '81) a lucky few had RP20's (That would be a gigabyte, son.) > Osborne, Kaypro, Televideo and Apples with CP/M cards were the > popular systems, [...] Mostly I remember PDP-10's running Tops-10, Tops-20, Tenex, and ITS. (some PDP-11's running UNIX too, but that was too weird for me.) My problem was, I was a starving programmer. Gain a job, loose a hobby & all that. If I had the money, I'd a spent it on an H-19 terminal and a hard-wired 9600 baud phone line to campus before I'd even think about one of them TOY computers. -- Foo! ###### Message-ID: <3C031CFF.14FDF29C@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 04:56:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.158.76.244 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: typhoon2.gnilink.net 1006836979 141.158.76.244 (Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:56:19 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:56:19 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!typhoon2.gnilink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95173 kyork wrote: > > Ack! 1200 baud? My failing memory has them at 300 baud totally manual > [...] ``Compuserve'' and ``the Source'' [...] at an astronomically > high price. I'm pretty sure you could still buy a 300 baud modem in 1981 if you wanted one. And the reason you might want one is that time sharing services all over the country and nationwide nets like compuserve charged you premium per-minute connect time rates if you used a "high- speed" (i.e., 1200 baud) modem. -- Foo! ###### Message-ID: <3C031FCC.8392E498@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <87lmgt8k19.fsf@prep.synonet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 05:08:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.158.76.244 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 1006837695 141.158.76.244 (Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:08:15 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:08:15 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!typhoon1.gnilink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95166 Paul Repacholi wrote: > > 81-82 is a bit early for ethernet, that was still 12-18 months away > although there would have been some in odd places. So, what? Odd places don't count? Carnegie-Mellon University had an Ethernet when I arrived there in 1979. It was kind of an odd place now that I think about it. At least, there were some odd people lurking there. Speaking of odd. The computers that were on C-MU's ethernet were some of the oddest I'd ever seen. They didn't have terminals for one thing. The only way you could use one was you had to actually sit down right in front of the computer, and stare at this dedicated graphics display. Only one person could use a computer at a time. Weird! It didn't have any kind of character generation hardware -- All of the characters that appeared on the screen had to be drawn by software, and there were different styles of characters (called "fonts") that you could use. The weirdest/coolest part was this graphics input device. It sat on this little mat, and you pushed it around with your hand, and an arrow moved around on the screen as if it was connected. There were three buttons on top of the thing that you could press to cause commands to be performed on the graphic object that was under the little arrow. They called the thing a "mouse." -- Foo! ###### From: John Alvord Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:24:21 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.553 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 26 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed1.ulv.nextra.no!nextra.com!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95282 On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 04:13:01 GMT, mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) wrote: >In article <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net>, >Patrick Scheible wrote: >>Lars Poulsen wrote: >>> Kate Orman wrote: >> >>>>Hi! I'm writing a novel set around Christmas 1981. The story involves >>>>cracking (aka hacking) computers, as well as phone phreaking. I've read >>>>a bunch of net history online and in books (and I'm hugely enjoying >>>>reading a.f.c), but I still need help with specific details of what the >>>>net was like at the time - for instance, what did computers' addresses >>>>look like before domain names. I've got someone trying to telnet to port >>>>25 and I'm not even sure you could *do* that then. I'd be extremely >>>>grateful for any help or pointers! >>>> >>> Fall of 1981 is not too distant from when I got on the 'net, so maybe I >>> can help you a bit. >>> By 1981, the network was solidly TCP/IP, and FTP, telnet and SMTP were >>> firmly in >>> place, but of course WWW was about a decade into the future. Wasn't December 1981 when the XMAS "virus" washed over BITNET and the IBM internel mail network? john ###### From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:01:51 -0000 Message-ID: <1006855312.25952.0.nnrp-02.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <87lmgt8k19.fsf@prep.synonet.com> <3C031FCC.8392E498@gazonk.del> Reply-To: "Peter Ibbotson" NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1006855312 nnrp-02:25952 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Lines: 30 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95295 "Foobar T. Clown" wrote in message news:3C031FCC.8392E498@gazonk.del... > Paul Repacholi wrote: > > > > 81-82 is a bit early for ethernet, that was still 12-18 months away > > although there would have been some in odd places. > > So, what? Odd places don't count? > > Carnegie-Mellon University had an Ethernet when I arrived there in 1979. > It was kind of an odd place now that I think about it. At least, there > were some odd people lurking there. > In the UK it would have been X25, having a look at http://www.superjanet4.net/background/history.html implies that Janet (the UK eqivalent of ArpaNet I suppose) was using X25 in the early eighties. So I suppose PAD hacking would have been more likely. The following pdf is superb on this stuff (I assume it will wrap) but he might be able to give a better idea of what was going on at the time http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/dragon/sigcomm/t1/kirstein.arpahistory.materi al.prn.pdf -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:52:46 +0000 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Message-ID: References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <87lmgt8k19.fsf@prep.synonet.com> <3C031FCC.8392E498@gazonk.del> <1006855312.25952.0.nnrp-02.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1006858802 nnrp-12:740 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Lines: 13 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp.abs.net!feeder.qis.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95220 According to Peter Ibbotson : > In the UK it would have been X25, having a look at > http://www.superjanet4.net/background/history.html implies that Janet (the > UK eqivalent of ArpaNet I suppose) was using X25 in the early eighties. So I > suppose PAD hacking would have been more likely. Indeed it was. I recall seeing various security advisories when I was a spotty student, probably '87 in particular, when there was quite a flurry of recommendations for the BARRED_SITES.DAT files after a particularly bad spate of hacking and associated computer vandalism from a German hackers' club. Chris. ###### From: Juha Laiho Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Lines: 14 Message-ID: <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Originator: jlaiho@ichaos.ichaos-int (Juha Laiho) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:30:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.28.169.169 X-Trace: read2.inet.fi 1006878659 213.28.169.169 (Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:30:59 EET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:30:59 EET Organization: Sonera corp Internet services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!news.cc.tut.fi!levitin.saunalahti.fi!nntp.inet.fi!central.inet.fi!inet.fi!read2.inet.fi.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95228 John Alvord said: >Wasn't December 1981 when the XMAS "virus" washed over BITNET and the >IBM internel mail network? I recall that happening a lot later -- '88, I'd claim (got my univ. account on that year and hadn't been online in the big networks before that). But then, the '88 incident might not be the first one. -- Wolf a.k.a. Juha Laiho Espoo, Finland (GC 3.0) GIT d- s+: a C++ ULSH++++$ P++@ L+++ E- W+$@ N++ !K w !O !M V PS(+) PE Y+ PGP(+) t- 5 !X R !tv b+ !DI D G e+ h--- r+++ y+++ "...cancel my subscription to the resurrection!" (Jim Morrison) ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 27 Nov 2001 16:53:52 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 10 Message-ID: <9u0gf0$s2o$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <87lmgt8k19.fsf@prep.synonet.com> <3C031FCC.8392E498@gazonk.del> <1006855312.25952.0.nnrp-02.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1006880032 28760 134.117.136.30 (27 Nov 2001 16:53:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Nov 2001 16:53:52 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet-peer!btnet!Quza.UK.peer!nntp.gblx.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95250 Chris Hedley (cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk) writes: > > Indeed it was. I recall seeing various security advisories when I was a > spotty student, probably '87 in particular, when there was quite a flurry > of recommendations for the BARRED_SITES.DAT files after a particularly bad > spate of hacking and associated computer vandalism from a German hackers' > club. ENIGMA revenge? ###### Message-ID: <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 79 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:32:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.171.162 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1006882335 12.90.171.162 (Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:32:15 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:32:15 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newsfeed.cwix.com!wn2feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95157 "Foobar T. Clown" wrote: > > CBFalconer wrote: > > > > Kate Orman wrote: > > > > > > Hi! I'm writing a novel set around Christmas 1981. [... I] need help > > > with specific details of what the net was like at the time [...] > > > > Very little internet usage then. > > That depends on who and where you were. If you were a member of the > computer science community at any of a small number of universities or > government sites, then the net was hot stuff. I was a staffer at > Carnegie-Mellon University at the time. I only used the net for e-mail, > and most of that was on-campus, but I knew a number of people who > depended on e-mail, FTP, and Telnet to other sites to get their work > done. > > We had one (or maybe it was two) segments of Ethernet too. When I told > a friend of mine at another university about Ethernet, he wouldn't > believe me. He'd been taught that it was *NOT POSSIBLE* for computers > to communicate at speeds greater than 56Kbps. > > > However BBS's were functional, > > Oh yeah. Those. > > > [...] Xmodem was the file transfer method of choice, > > Kermit! Kermit! Kermit! Kermit! Great waste of bandwidth. After all, XYZmodem could use all 8 bits. Cuts the expensive phone bill by at least 25%. Kermit was for brain-dead mainframes that couldn't handle 8 bit characters. Xmodem had to be specially configured/hacked to handle half duplex line turn-around at the mainframe end by delaying the ack. Slowed it considerably. > > Floppy disks provided most of the storage. Some rare systems had > > great big 5 Meg hard drives. > > And some systems had rows and rows of RP06 drives at 300 meg each; And > sometime around that time (maybe not *QUITE* as early as '81) a lucky > few had RP20's (That would be a gigabyte, son.) I stored most large things on the great big 500 Mb drive at work. Got yelled at for using so much space and causing the backups to use an extra tape. However, I doubt there were ANY personal computers with anything over 10 or 20 Mb on line in those days. > > > Osborne, Kaypro, Televideo and Apples with CP/M cards were the > > popular systems, [...] > > Mostly I remember PDP-10's running Tops-10, Tops-20, Tenex, and ITS. > (some PDP-11's running UNIX too, but that was too weird for me.) > My problem was, I was a starving programmer. Gain a job, loose a > hobby & all that. If I had the money, I'd a spent it on an H-19 > terminal and a hard-wired 9600 baud phone line to campus before I'd > even think about one of them TOY computers. My Kaypro and a 1200 baud Passport gave me full access to the mainframe. Just slightly slower than the hard-wired 2400 baud terminals we had at work. Only problem was there was only one 1200 baud line, and sometimes somebody else got it on the rotary for their 300 baud TI portables. That was usually the system manager. I could use the 300 connection to send him a message "let's both get off and trade ports". I could dial either the rotary number (and get the first non-busy line), or the specific 1200 line, which was deliberately mounted as the last rotary. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:10:17 +0000 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Message-ID: <9uk0u9.em1.ln@teabag.cbhnet> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <1006855312.25952.0.nnrp-02.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9u0gf0$s2o$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1006885805 nnrp-08:23428 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Lines: 9 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95201 According to Heinz W. Wiggeshoff : > ENIGMA revenge? Dunno. Probably more to do with a large bunch of Vaxes with interesting stuff on and poorly administered security (the number of machines broken into using the DEC-specified default password for SYSTEST_CLIG was pretty worrying...) Chris. ###### From: Juha Laiho Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Lines: 34 Message-ID: <9u0orq$93e$6@ichaos.ichaos-int> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Originator: jlaiho@ichaos.ichaos-int (Juha Laiho) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:20:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.28.169.169 X-Trace: read2.inet.fi 1006888859 213.28.169.169 (Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:20:59 EET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:20:59 EET Organization: Sonera corp Internet services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!news.cc.tut.fi!levitin.saunalahti.fi!nntp.inet.fi!central.inet.fi!inet.fi!read2.inet.fi.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95232 cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net said: >"Foobar T. Clown" wrote: >> CBFalconer wrote: >> > [...] Xmodem was the file transfer method of choice, >> >> Kermit! Kermit! Kermit! Kermit! > >Great waste of bandwidth. After all, XYZmodem could use all 8 >bits. ... but lukily even kermit got better during the years; just the packet size increase from 96(?) bytes to 1k was great -- as the overhead per packet was (almost, at least) constant number of bytes, the per-kb -overhead dropped drastically when packet size was increased ten-fold. The worse, I think, especially with the small packets was the lack of windowing, i.e. that a new packet could not be sent until acknowledge of the previous packet was received. Windowing versions of kermit were pretty much competitive with zmodem. >Cuts the expensive phone bill by at least 25%. Kermit was >for brain-dead mainframes that couldn't handle 8 bit characters. And also kermit seemed much more resilient on systems where the serial overruns where common (due to bad design of the serial interfaces, and increase of speeds in late eighties). Of course, with these systems the transfer eventually slowed down to a crawl, but with kermit at least the data got through. -- Wolf a.k.a. Juha Laiho Espoo, Finland (GC 3.0) GIT d- s+: a C++ ULSH++++$ P++@ L+++ E- W+$@ N++ !K w !O !M V PS(+) PE Y+ PGP(+) t- 5 !X R !tv b+ !DI D G e+ h--- r+++ y+++ "...cancel my subscription to the resurrection!" (Jim Morrison) ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:15:35 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <1006892135snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> <9u047p$et3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1006899745 mail2news:898 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 27 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95304 In article <9u047p$et3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > And told the operator that it was a data call. Although, I don't > remember having to do that in 1981. We certainly had to do it > in the 70s. In those days, operators would interpret > computers peeping at each other as a broken line and cut your > phone off at the second when you were almost done with whatever > you were doing. It wasn't that the operator was prone to cutting off such a call deliberately; it's just that they were trained (particularly with long- distance calls) to "listen in" occasionally if a call had continued for an "excessive" length of time. It was the disturbance (line clicks, additional echoes, etc) to the line when they entered in this supervisory role that would often cause the modems to lose communication: and the algorthms back in those days didn't usually include retraining. When making transatlantic calls, it was *essential* to ask for a "data call"; the operator would then route it over circuits that didn't have "automatic echo suppression", which used to interfere abysmally with V.22 -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:23:08 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <1006892588snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1006899749 mail2news:902 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 31 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!diablo.theplanet.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95309 In article <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> Juha.Laiho@iki.fi "Juha Laiho" writes: > John Alvord said: > >Wasn't December 1981 when the XMAS "virus" washed over BITNET and the > >IBM internel mail network? > > I recall that happening a lot later -- '88, I'd claim (got my univ. > account on that year and hadn't been online in the big networks > before that). Are you not thinking of the Morris Worm? Luckily, it never entered the UK, since all the gateways into the country were running VMS and not Unix. Nevertheless, we saw a decided dearth of traffic from ROW for quite some time... > But then, the '88 incident might not be the first one. I believe the appearance of the word "virus" in quotes is an indication that it wasn't actually a computer virus at all, but perhaps something more akin to the sort of e-mail/Usenet virus that goes around the world in seconds following a hoax "virus alert" (such as "Good Times", "Jesus Saves", or even on a slightly different premise, the sexual proclivities of Miss Claire Swire). -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <87lmgt8k19.fsf@prep.synonet.com> <3C031FCC.8392E498@gazonk.del> <1078.731T2452T6395481@sky.bus.com> Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) NNTP-Posting-Host: sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Message-ID: <3c0406f3@news.ucsc.edu> Date: 27 Nov 2001 13:34:43 -0800 X-Trace: 27 Nov 2001 13:34:43 -0800, sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Lines: 34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.ulv.nextra.no!nextra.com!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.ucsc.edu!eugene Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95314 In article <3C031FCC.8392E498@gazonk.del> fubar@gazonk.del (Foobar T. Clown) writes: >>Carnegie-Mellon University had an Ethernet when I arrived there in 1979. This is about when I first encountered it as well. Jorgenson Hall at Caltech. I remember hearing all the arguments about waste and inefficiency: that IBM token rings and NSC Hyperchannel were the ways to do this. >>It didn't have any kind of character generation hardware -- All of the This is an Alto, not Ethernet(tm). >>characters that appeared on the screen had to be drawn by software, and >>there were different styles of characters (called "fonts") that you >>could use. The weirdest/coolest part was this graphics input device. >>It sat on this little mat, and you pushed it around with your hand, >>and an arrow moved around on the screen as if it was connected. There >>were three buttons on top of the thing that you could press to cause >>commands to be performed on the graphic object that was under the >>little arrow. They called the thing a "mouse." Mice were around years before the Alto. I used one with the Tymshare NLS system. We prefered graphics tablets in the labs we were in. But the bitmapped graphics were quite powerful. The Alto changed my computing life for the better. Fonts: that was Knuth and Metafont (a waste of Knuth's time [but he didn't feel that]). The only thing is that I wish that the computing dinosaurs (human) from that era had stayed in that era. I don't recall mats until the Mac in 1984 excepting maybe the SUN optical mouse. 3 buttons (some colored sometimes), but mats came much later. Lint was a unix command. Wonderous time in computing. ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 41 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:08:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.245.7.36 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1006898890 209.245.7.36 (Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:08:10 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:08:10 PST X-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:03:49 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!washdc3-snf1!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95233 Patrick Scheible writes: > Right, with a personal computer you would typically dial in to a > University server by phone. The modems were 1200 baud then, (possibly > 2400?), cost a few hundred $, and the width and depth of a shoebox and > about half as tall. i had gotten a 2741 early in 70 as a home terminal with one of those accoustic modems that you placed the hand-set inside and closed the cover. 2741 ran at 134cps. late in the '70s I was able to upgrade my home machine to a CDI miniterm that ran at 300. It used rolls of heat-sensitive paper (something like some of the current faxes) and had a cover that when on made it look about like a large briefcase. In feb. of 1980, my home terminal was upgraded to a 3101 ("glass" teletype) that ran at 1200. The 3101 had a base unit/controller about half the height of the original PC-case, a monitor (similar to a PC b/w monitor), keyboard, and a separate printer (a simpler version than the basic pc-printer). The 3101 could operate in line-mode or "block-mode" ... sort of a mini-3270 operation. The printer could be set to "slave" every line printed ... or it could be setup so that it would just "print" the current screen when the print screen button was used. Logging into local corporate mainframe also allowed access to the world-wide internal network (which eventually also had a arpanet/csnet gateway). Six months after the great internet cut-over to "IP" on 1/1/83, the internal network had about four times as many nodes as the arpanet/internet. random ref: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#112 One of the other frequent places to "visit" was Tymshare. Tymshare (large mainframe, online VM/370 service bureau) had set up special online (essentially free) newsgroup operation for Share (ibm mainframe users group) to discuss VM/370 (VMSHARE) and (later) IBM/PC (PCSHARE). -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### Message-ID: <3C047262.5050206@beagle-ears.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:13:06 -0800 From: Lars Poulsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: da,en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers To: Paul Repacholi Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <87lmgt8k19.fsf@prep.synonet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 50 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.154.106.6 X-Trace: azure.impulse.net 1006924309 189 207.154.106.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.ulv.nextra.no!nextra.com!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!62.112.0.25!newsfeed.online.be!sienna.impulse.net!azure.impulse.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95187 Paul Repacholi wrote: >81-82 is a bit early for ethernet, that was still 12-18 months away >although there would have been some in odd places. > I believe that it was in the spring of 1981 that Steve Holmgren of Mitre came to ACC (which then stood for Associated Computer Consultants) to work with Larry Green on a government sponsored research project to build an Ethernet peripheral to a Z8000 single board computer in order to evaluate how well this new stuff worked. They were so happy with it that Larry and two others went on to incorporate CMC (Communication Machinery Corporation) in order to commercialize ethernet, planning to build NICs based on the AMD LANCE chip. Then they very nearly went bankrupt, because AMD ran into trouble late in the project, and I think they waited 18 months for working chips to be available. They survived by building a large board of discrete logic that could be used an an in-circuit LANCE emulator by all the other people trying to debug NICs and unable to get chips to test them with. "A pioneer is easy to recognize: He's the one with all the arrows sticking out his back." >The bulk of networking was in easynet (DEC), IBMs internal network(s?), >and some comercial networks. It was FAR more varied than it is now. > I won't say that "the bulk of networking" was in the internal networks of the computer vendors. Certainly they would be dwarfed by the aggregate mass of their customers, but it is true that those customers were not connected to each other. The global network took off when several things happened in sequence: - DARPA sponsored research developed TCP/IP and working implementations for use in ARPANET/MILNET (1979-1980) - Universities with ethernet LANs linked them to ARPANET via 4.2BSD unix gateways (1982-1983) - the informal UUCP network was email linked to the ARPANET and university network using those same university unix systems (1981-1983) - the internal networks at IBM and DEC joined the cloud (1982-1984) (Dates from my fuzzy memory, not checked.) / Lars Poulsen ###### Message-ID: <3C047384.1010706@beagle-ears.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:17:56 -0800 From: Lars Poulsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: da,en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <87lmgt8k19.fsf@prep.synonet.com> <3C031FCC.8392E498@gazonk.del> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.154.106.6 X-Trace: azure.impulse.net 1006924600 189 207.154.106.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!209.81.14.120!feeder.via.net!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!sienna.impulse.net!azure.impulse.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95188 Foobar T. Clown wrote: >Carnegie-Mellon University had an Ethernet when I arrived there in 1979. > But I bet that was the 3-Mbps version of ethernet (which gave name to 3Com). >Speaking of odd. The computers that were on C-MU's ethernet were some >of the oddest I'd ever seen. They didn't have terminals for one thing. >The only way you could use one was you had to actually sit down right >in front of the computer, and stare at this dedicated graphics display. >Only one person could use a computer at a time. Weird! > They had similar ones at Stanford, and the cluster of them was called the Stanford University Network, or SUN. / Lars Poulsen ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <1f3ha31.rip3281bx3fnkN%eijkhout@cs.utk.edu> Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE From: eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) NNTP-Posting-Host: sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Message-ID: <3c0497b8$1@news.ucsc.edu> Date: 27 Nov 2001 23:52:24 -0800 X-Trace: 27 Nov 2001 23:52:24 -0800, sundance.cse.ucsc.edu Lines: 24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.ucsc.edu!eugene Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95159 >A good number of machines was on Bitnet. Not nearly as many on Usenet. While certainly RSCS made greater inroads than SNA outside IBM at the time (this will likely spark Lynn), I find that a number of Bitnet principals are engaging in net revisionism. It's particularly unfortunate that Jim Ellis passed away because this was a part of his legacy. Usenet and UUCP get considerably more credit in some ways than even the ARPAnet NCP days. While there was far greater performance and functionality on the ARPAnet, the limited entry "bar" [$100K per year for sites already getting money from ARPA] was rather expensive, it was impressive to witness the quick speed connectivity on UUCP branched, and it was great that a few on the ARPAnet were willing to gateway at least email (and later Bitnet). It was also much more less concern about commercism aspects that either ARPA, Bitnet, SPAN, or HEPnet. This was the environment more conducive to open source. The other nets got wrapped around the axel about questions of use. Similar limiting comments might be made of HEPnet or SPAN (based solely on vendor protocols [DECnet in this case]). P.S. Victor isn't one of the revisionists: don't dump on him. ###### Message-ID: <3C04A6B4.9F7181FE@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:56:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.158.73.95 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 1006937762 141.158.73.95 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 03:56:02 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 03:56:02 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone2.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!typhoon1.gnilink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95170 CBFalconer wrote: > > My Kaypro and a 1200 baud Passport gave me full access to the > mainframe. [...] Only problem was there was only one 1200 baud line, > and sometimes somebody else got it on the rotary for their 300 baud > TI portables. ^^ ^^^^^^^^^ Silent 700? I loved those things! I mean, here was this computer terminal, with a modem built in, and it closes up like a briefcase with a handle on it and everything. You can take it with you pretty much ANYWHERE as long as you had a telephone (Note: TELEPHONE, not phone LINE) and a power outlet. How cool was that? The paper was expensive as hell, but what are you going to do? Travel with an LA36 so you can save a few bucks by printing on plain paper? One of the math teachers at my high school had the APL version. How many terminals can you name off hand that were available with APL keycaps? I never got into APL myself, so I can only name one. -- Foo! ###### Message-ID: <3C04A7BD.22EA5565@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <9u041r$et3$5@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:00:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.158.73.95 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 1006938054 141.158.73.95 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 04:00:54 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 04:00:54 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!typhoon1.gnilink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95167 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > [...] Patrick Scheible wrote: > > > >[...] DECnet was used a lot in academic circles. > > Not in 1981. If they had a PDP-10 and running TOPS-10, they > were using ANF-10. [...] How 'bout on Tops-20? I remember using DECnet to transfer files between TOPS-20 systems at Carnegie-Mellon U. sometime in the early eighties. Could it have been as early as '81? If not, I don't think it was a LOT later. -- Foo! ###### Message-ID: <3C04AA61.3AD00D29@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> <9u047p$et3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <1006892135snz@dsl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:11:42 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.158.73.95 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 1006938702 141.158.73.95 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 04:11:42 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 04:11:42 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!typhoon1.gnilink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95164 Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > > [...] (line clicks, additional echoes, etc) [...] would often cause > the modems to lose communication: and the algorthms back in those days > didn't usually include retraining. *RE*training? The algorithms back in those days didn't include TRAINING. For 300 baud, it was simple frequency shift keying. The originate modem sent one fixed tone for mark and a different tone for space. The answer modem did the same thing, but using a different pair of tones. 1200 baud was somewhat more sophisticated, but IIRC, it was still essentially a non-negotiable protocol. The transmitter did what transmitters were supposed to do, and the receiver did what receivers were supposed to do, and if they both did it right, the message got across. Ever notice that those ubiquitous credit card terminals all use 2400 baud? It's because they can connect to the server, log on, complete the transaction, and hang up in less time than it takes a pair of modern "high speed" modems to complete their mating call. -- Foo! ###### Message-ID: <3C04ADC0.5932501C@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <87lmgt8k19.fsf@prep.synonet.com> <3C031FCC.8392E498@gazonk.del> <3C047384.1010706@beagle-ears.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:26:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.158.73.95 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 1006939566 141.158.73.95 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 04:26:06 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 04:26:06 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!typhoon1.gnilink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95163 Lars Poulsen wrote: > > Foobar T. Clown wrote: > > >[about a PC that was many years ahead of its time] > > > They had similar ones at Stanford, and the cluster of them was called > the Stanford University Network, or SUN. I may be making this up, but weren't the individual workstations called SUN terminals? (Emphasis on the word "terminal" because I don't think they could function as independent PCs.) I remember the first time I ever saw something that said "SUN" on it. 60 Hz interlaced bi-level graphics. It hurt your eyes just to look at it. I was working for a company in Pittsburgh called Perq Systems at the time. We made a graphics workstation that was pretty much designed BY computer engineers FOR computer engineers (e.g., you were pretty well qualified to work in the field if you could keep a PERQ running.) Unfortunately, engineers were not necessarily who we tried to sell them to. Somebody at Perq circulated a memo in late '83 or early '84 in which they assessed our competition. Top of the list was Apollo. Somewhere way down at the bottom was Sun Microsystems. We were pretty confident we had nothing to fear from Sun. -- Foo! ###### Message-ID: <3C04C099.7ED9263F@start.com.au> From: Kate Orman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:46:50 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.23.147.238 X-Complaints-To: news@pacific.net.au X-Trace: nasal.pacific.net.au 1006944379 210.23.147.238 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:46:19 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:46:19 EST Organization: Pacific Internet (Australia) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!newsfeed.zip.com.au!nasal.pacific.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95176 John Alvord wrote: > Wasn't December 1981 when the XMAS "virus" washed over BITNET and the > IBM internel mail network? I remember that! December 1987. I had a holiday job at IBM at the time, and I remember the endless warning messages telling you not to run the program. Cheers, - Kate Orman ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 28 Nov 2001 10:53:40 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 27 Message-ID: <9u2fnk$svb$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com> <3C04A6B4.9F7181FE@gazonk.del> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1006944820 29675 134.117.136.30 (28 Nov 2001 10:53:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Nov 2001 10:53:40 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet-peer!btnet!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95255 "Foobar T. Clown" (fubar@gazonk.del) writes: > > Silent 700? I loved those things! And compared to anything else that printed, they really were Silent! ... > The paper was > expensive as hell, but what are you going to do? Let the employer pay. > Travel with an LA36 > so you can save a few bucks by printing on plain paper? Try carrying a 2741 portable. I only did it once. > > One of the math teachers at my high school had the APL version. How > many terminals can you name off hand that were available with APL > keycaps? IIRC, a 3270 type device had them, circa 1980. > I never got into APL myself, so I can only name one. You can get a taste for nearly free by running TRYAPL2 under DOS - yes, the M$ flavour. ###### From: "Walter Rottenkolber" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> <9u047p$et3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <1006892135snz@dsl.co.uk> <3C04AA61.3AD00D29@gazonk.del> Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 03:00:39 -0800 Lines: 34 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.155.25.36 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.155.25.36 Message-ID: <3c04e120@news.sierratel.com> X-Trace: news.sierratel.com 1006952736 209.155.25.36 (28 Nov 2001 05:05:36 -0800) Organization: news.sierratel.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news.sierratel.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95193 Foobar T. Clown wrote in message <3C04AA61.3AD00D29@gazonk.del>... >Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: >> >> [...] (line clicks, additional echoes, etc) [...] would often cause >> the modems to lose communication: and the algorthms back in those days >> didn't usually include retraining. > >*RE*training? The algorithms back in those days didn't include >TRAINING. For 300 baud, it was simple frequency shift keying. The >originate modem sent one fixed tone for mark and a different tone for >space. The answer modem did the same thing, but using a different pair >of tones. 1200 baud was somewhat more sophisticated, but IIRC, it was >still essentially a non-negotiable protocol. The transmitter did what >transmitters were supposed to do, and the receiver did what receivers >were supposed to do, and if they both did it right, the message got >across. > >Ever notice that those ubiquitous credit card terminals all use 2400 >baud? It's because they can connect to the server, log on, complete >the transaction, and hang up in less time than it takes a pair of >modern "high speed" modems to complete their mating call. > >-- Foo! That meant you had to match the baud rate of the SIO to your modem rate, but even more importantly to that of the receiving modem. Otherwise you could end up with unwanted longdistance charges when the other system answered but didn't connect. One of the joys of the old BBS days. Walter Rottenkolber ###### From: Sean Case Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Organization: Marginal References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) Message-ID: Lines: 15 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 22:19:24 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.23.147.143 X-Complaints-To: news@pacific.net.au X-Trace: nasal.pacific.net.au 1006946333 210.23.147.143 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 22:18:53 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 22:18:53 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!newsfeed.zip.com.au!nasal.pacific.net.au!gsc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95273 In article <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com>, CBFalconer wrote: > Kermit was > for brain-dead mainframes that couldn't handle 8 bit characters. Personally, I'm getting fed up with these brain-dead PCs that can't handle 9 bit characters. It's causing me no end of grief at work. Sean Case -- Sean Case gsc@zip.com.au Code is an illusion. Only assertions are real. ###### Message-ID: <3C04E8BA.875F667A@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:37:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.158.73.95 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 1006954664 141.158.73.95 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:37:44 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:37:44 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!typhoon1.gnilink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95172 Sean Case wrote: > > In article <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com>, > CBFalconer wrote: > > > Kermit was > > for brain-dead mainframes that couldn't handle 8 bit characters. > > Personally, I'm getting fed up with these brain-dead PCs that can't > handle 9 bit characters. It's causing me no end of grief at work. Oh! Oh! Now you've got me started. I'm STILL pissed about where IBM moved the damn control key, and now I've got this WinDoze approved keyboard in front of me with four bucky bits on the left and five on the right, but is there a meta key? Sure, I can assign one, but that's not quite the same as a key that SAYS "meta" right on the key cap, is it? I've been typing X this, and X that and Ctrl-bend-your- pinkie-way-down-here-and-cross-your-ring-finger-over-it-to-reach- the-A for close to twenty years now and it's *NOT* improving my mood. -- Foo! Foo! Foo! Foo! Foo! Foo! ###### Message-ID: <3C04F91A.8EA1B345@gazonk.del> From: "Foobar T. Clown" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> <9u047p$et3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <1006892135snz@dsl.co.uk> <3C04AA61.3AD00D29@gazonk.del> <3c04e120@news.sierratel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 42 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:47:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.158.73.95 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 1006958867 141.158.73.95 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:47:47 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:47:47 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!typhoon1.gnilink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95168 Walter Rottenkolber wrote: > > > > [...about old modems...] > > That meant you had to match the baud rate of the SIO to your modem > rate, but even more importantly to that of the receiving modem. Well I don't know about them fancy 1200 bps modems, but the old Bell 103 modem didn't have "rates." All it did was monitor the voltage on the Tx pin, and transmit one tone when the tx voltage was positive, and transmit a different tone when the voltage was negative. At the same time, it listened for two other tones, and it set the voltage on the Rx pin to be either positive or negative depending on which of the two tones it heard. I guess there were some other little details: It had to be able to notify the DTE whether the phone was ringing, and whether it was receiving a signal; and the DTE had to be able to tell it to go off hook or on hook. All of that was accomplished, not by sending commands over the Tx and Rx lines, but by driving other lines in the RS-232 cable high or low as appropriate. The modems didn't know or care whether the DTEs were talking at 50 bps or at 300 bps or anywhere in between. I don't think it would care if you tried to send faster than 300 bps. Different story at the receiving end, though. If the tones changed much faster than 300 baud, the receiver would fail to recognize them as tones. Of course you had to match the bit rate of your DTE to the bit rate of the DTE on the other end, but that would be true even if you connected them with a "null" modem. But hey! We *DID* have crystal oscillators way back when... -- Foo! P.S.: I do know a little about the 1200 bps modems (e.g., Bell 212A), and they *DID* have to be operated at a specific bit rate, and they did have to be synchronized with the DTEs so that they could know when the bits began and ended. That's because those modems transmitted two bits at a time. The modem on the transmitting end would accept two bits from the DCE, change the line state, accept two more bits, change the line state again, ... ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 From: eijkhout@cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:28:45 -0500 Message-ID: <1f3ktkp.1okyja294img9N%eijkhout@cs.utk.edu> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <1f3ha31.rip3281bx3fnkN%eijkhout@cs.utk.edu> <3c0497b8$1@news.ucsc.edu> User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4.6 NNTP-Posting-Host: news.utk.edu Lines: 17 Organization: University of Tennessee Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!hub1.nntpserver.com!newsfeed.utk.edu!news.utk.edu!eijkhout Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95368 Eugene Miya wrote: > >A good number of machines was on Bitnet. > > Not nearly as many on Usenet. I wouldn't know. They seemed like completely separate worlds to me. Someone once gave me some cryptic instructions involving a machine with "seismo" in the name to gateway mail to the unix half of the world, but it didn't work for me. Of course, where I worked the connectivity was bad enough that mail across the street had to go through Germany (the computing center and the science faculty didn't talk to each other in more ways than one) and that I occasionally to magtapes with me on the train to move data... V. ###### Message-ID: <3C04C602.95E016F5@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> <3C031CFF.14FDF29C@gazonk.del> <718.731T1405T6225042@sky.bus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:41:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.178.193 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1006965706 12.90.178.193 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:41:46 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:41:46 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!wn2feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95374 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > ... snip ... > > Nak! 1200 bps. This _is_ a.f.c, after all, and there are plenty > of curmudgeons like me who will make sure you get it right. It IS 1200 baud at the RS232 interface. ACANNR. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### Message-ID: <3C04C7E3.B669B65E@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:41:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.178.193 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1006965708 12.90.178.193 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:41:48 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:41:48 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95329 Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: > > Patrick Scheible writes: > > > Right, with a personal computer you would typically dial in to a > > University server by phone. The modems were 1200 baud then, (possibly > > 2400?), cost a few hundred $, and the width and depth of a shoebox and > > about half as tall. > > i had gotten a 2741 early in 70 as a home terminal with one of those > accoustic modems that you placed the hand-set inside and closed the > cover. 2741 ran at 134cps. > > late in the '70s I was able to upgrade my home machine to a CDI > miniterm that ran at 300. It used rolls of heat-sensitive paper > (something like some of the current faxes) and had a cover that when > on made it look about like a large briefcase. I've got one of those buried around here somewhere, complete with acoustic modem. It had been kludged to be switchable to direct connect, IIRC. Maybe I should put it up on eBay. Also have some rolls of TI heat sensitive paper still in the plastic wraps. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### From: Juha Laiho Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Lines: 15 Message-ID: <9u37pi$ebl$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C031CFF.14FDF29C@gazonk.del> <718.731T1405T6225042@sky.bus.com> <3C04C602.95E016F5@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Originator: jlaiho@ichaos.ichaos-int (Juha Laiho) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:45:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.28.169.169 X-Trace: read2.inet.fi 1006969559 213.28.169.169 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:45:59 EET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:45:59 EET Organization: Sonera corp Internet services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news100.world-online.no!news100.world-online.no!nntp.newmedia.no!news.powertech.no!newsfeed01.nntp.se.dataphone.net!nntp.se.dataphone.net!news.kolumbus.fi!nntp.inet.fi!central.inet.fi!inet.fi!read2.inet.fi.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95342 cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net said: >Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> Nak! 1200 bps. This _is_ a.f.c, after all, and there are plenty >> of curmudgeons like me who will make sure you get it right. > >It IS 1200 baud at the RS232 interface. ACANNR. And a bit later it got to the point where the serial speed had no relation to the actual transfer speed. So modem-to-modem transfer speed (i.e. 600 bd in the above) is the relevant thing. -- Wolf a.k.a. Juha Laiho Espoo, Finland (GC 3.0) GIT d- s+: a C++ ULSH++++$ P++@ L+++ E- W+$@ N++ !K w !O !M V PS(+) PE Y+ PGP(+) t- 5 !X R !tv b+ !DI D G e+ h--- r+++ y+++ "...cancel my subscription to the resurrection!" (Jim Morrison) ###### From: Juha Laiho Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9u38ah$ebl$2@ichaos.ichaos-int> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> <1006892588snz@dsl.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Originator: jlaiho@ichaos.ichaos-int (Juha Laiho) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:56:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.28.169.169 X-Trace: read2.inet.fi 1006970160 213.28.169.169 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:56:00 EET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:56:00 EET Organization: Sonera corp Internet services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!netnews.com!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!newsfeed1.bredband.com!bredband!newsfeed01.nntp.se.dataphone.net!nntp.se.dataphone.net!news.kolumbus.fi!nntp.inet.fi!central.inet.fi!inet.fi!read2.inet.fi.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95341 bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) said: >In article <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> > Juha.Laiho@iki.fi "Juha Laiho" writes: > >> John Alvord said: >> >Wasn't December 1981 when the XMAS "virus" washed over BITNET and the >> >IBM internel mail network? ... >I believe the appearance of the word "virus" in quotes is an indication >that it wasn't actually a computer virus at all, but perhaps something >more akin to the sort of e-mail/Usenet virus that goes around the world >in seconds following a hoax "virus alert" (such as "Good Times", "Jesus >Saves", or even on a slightly different premise, the sexual proclivities >of Miss Claire Swire). Exactly. Just an exponentially spreading (as chain e-mail tends to) wishings for "Merry Christmas" (with, of course, the suggestion of forwarding the message to _ALL_YOUR_FRIENDS_). The load took down several mail systems. -- Wolf a.k.a. Juha Laiho Espoo, Finland (GC 3.0) GIT d- s+: a C++ ULSH++++$ P++@ L+++ E- W+$@ N++ !K w !O !M V PS(+) PE Y+ PGP(+) t- 5 !X R !tv b+ !DI D G e+ h--- r+++ y+++ "...cancel my subscription to the resurrection!" (Jim Morrison) ###### From: Juha Laiho Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Lines: 15 Message-ID: <9u39b9$ebl$3@ichaos.ichaos-int> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> <1006892588snz@dsl.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Originator: jlaiho@ichaos.ichaos-int (Juha Laiho) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:10:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.28.169.169 X-Trace: read2.inet.fi 1006971059 213.28.169.169 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:10:59 EET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:10:59 EET Organization: Sonera corp Internet services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!news.cc.tut.fi!levitin.saunalahti.fi!nntp.inet.fi!central.inet.fi!inet.fi!read2.inet.fi.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95339 bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) said: >Are you not thinking of the Morris Worm? Luckily, it never entered the >UK, since all the gateways into the country were running VMS and not >Unix. Nevertheless, we saw a decided dearth of traffic from ROW for >quite some time... [/me thingking slow..] ... were you still using that bakwards-written JANET domain addressing at that time? Btw, when did the UK convert to "regular" domain addressing? -- Wolf a.k.a. Juha Laiho Espoo, Finland (GC 3.0) GIT d- s+: a C++ ULSH++++$ P++@ L+++ E- W+$@ N++ !K w !O !M V PS(+) PE Y+ PGP(+) t- 5 !X R !tv b+ !DI D G e+ h--- r+++ y+++ "...cancel my subscription to the resurrection!" (Jim Morrison) ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:23:33 +0100 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 25 Message-ID: <20011128192333.38a7c89d.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> <9u047p$et3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <1006892135snz@dsl.co.uk> <3C04AA61.3AD00D29@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: p562.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 1006977644 93706 194.134.201.126 (28 Nov 2001 20:00:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:00:44 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.6.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95351 On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:11:42 GMT "Foobar T. Clown" wrote: FTC> *RE*training? The algorithms back in those days didn't include FTC> TRAINING. For 300 baud, it was simple frequency shift keying. The FTC> originate modem sent one fixed tone for mark and a different tone for FTC> space. The answer modem did the same thing, but using a different pair FTC> of tones. 1200 baud was somewhat more sophisticated, but IIRC, it was FTC> still essentially a non-negotiable protocol. The transmitter did what Not only that but the data rate at the serial port matched the data rate on the line, there was no buffering or compression. FTC> Ever notice that those ubiquitous credit card terminals all use 2400 FTC> baud? It's because they can connect to the server, log on, complete FTC> the transaction, and hang up in less time than it takes a pair of FTC> modern "high speed" modems to complete their mating call. True enough - OTOH ISDN would be much quicker still. -- C:>WIN | Directable Mirrors The computer obeys and wins. |A Better Way To Focus The Sun You lose and Bill collects. | licenses available - see: | http://www.sohara.org/ ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:44:08 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> <1006892588snz@dsl.co.uk> <9u39b9$ebl$3@ichaos.ichaos-int> User-Agent: tin/1.5.9-20010723 ("Chord of Souls") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.4-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 52 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95353 Juha Laiho wrote: > bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) said: >>Are you not thinking of the Morris Worm? Luckily, it never entered the >>UK, since all the gateways into the country were running VMS and not >>Unix. Nevertheless, we saw a decided dearth of traffic from ROW for >>quite some time... > > [/me thingking slow..] > > ... were you still using that bakwards-written JANET domain addressing at > that time? Btw, when did the UK convert to "regular" domain addressing? In the Upper Palaeolithic, there was one line into London (uk.ac.{ucl?}.nsfnet-relay from this side of the pond). A lot of other traffic came into the UK via UUCP and so on - but there was bascially the one gateway that I think had been round since the days of the ARPAnet. Anyone who remembers an NRS DERFIL from those days will instantly remember how *elegant* DNS seemed when we first saw it used in anger:) JIPS (the JANet Internet Protocol Service) started circa 1991, originally with IP tunnelling over X.25. Very, very rapidly, it was realised on high that in fact what we'd wanted all the time was IP (those of us who remember the joys of Coloured Book will all sympathise!) and it switched over to X.25 tunnelled over IP. Mail addressing over 91-2 was amusing, because you'd occasionally have to reverse domains yourself (I recall mailing people at Sun as whoever@com.sun.eng, for example!) but eventually it all settled down to proper Internet order and X.25/coloured book died out. I don't know how many Great Renumberings went on during the early JIPS days too - my entire institution was using (private or non-routeable, I forget) addresses for its (relatively limited) network, and when it got a Class B (blimey, doesn't that make it sound a long time ago!) everything had to become 144.32.x.y overnight... Then of course there was the time when York Regional Fire Authority in Toronto seemed to get control of our DNS records... and of course anything crossposted to york.general on one side of the Atlantic ended up in york.general on the other... (Now there's a thing - do people still honour Distribution: lines? :) Anyone remember all the uk.ac.blah.cs mails that used to end up in Czechoslovakia (now also gone), or the joys of trying to send mail to uk.tele.nokia.fi (which I'm sure was named just to be perverse!) PAD> CALL TS+000006000028 pete ###### Message-ID: <3C0550B1.5B53E67F@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com> <3C04A6B4.9F7181FE@gazonk.del> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:05:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.179.111.125 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc2.tx.home.com 1006974307 24.179.111.125 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:05:07 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:05:07 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc2.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95364 "Foobar T. Clown" wrote: > > CBFalconer wrote: > > > > My Kaypro and a 1200 baud Passport gave me full access to the > > mainframe. [...] Only problem was there was only one 1200 baud line, > > and sometimes somebody else got it on the rotary for their 300 baud > > TI portables. > ^^ ^^^^^^^^^ > > Silent 700? I loved those things! I mean, here was this computer > terminal, with a modem built in, and it closes up like a briefcase > with a handle on it and everything. You can take it with you pretty > much ANYWHERE as long as you had a telephone (Note: TELEPHONE, not > phone LINE) and a power outlet. How cool was that? The paper was > expensive as hell, but what are you going to do? Travel with an LA36 > so you can save a few bucks by printing on plain paper? > Also it was one of the few commercial products that used "bubble" memory. The bubble memory was local storage...you could store info in the bubble memory, and then log on later and download it to the computer. > > One of the math teachers at my high school had the APL version. How > many terminals can you name off hand that were available with APL > keycaps? I never got into APL myself, so I can only name one. > DecWriters could be had with APL keycaps, as could a crummy terminal known as a Tel-Ray. You could *not* use a screen editor on such a Tel-Ray, because it always printed to the bottom line of the CRT. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Sam Yorko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:31:38 -0800 Lines: 11 Message-ID: <3C053B9A.C5A1844E@computer.org> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <87lmgt8k19.fsf@prep.synonet.com> <3C031FCC.8392E498@gazonk.del> <3C047384.1010706@beagle-ears.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: symsj01.sj.symbol.com (63.145.233.34) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1006975886 6243749 63.145.233.34 (16 [71567]) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!symsj01.sj.symbol.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95334 Lars Poulsen wrote: > > But I bet that was the 3-Mbps version of ethernet (which gave name to 3Com). > Say what? According to their web site: The three Coms in 3Com stand for COMputer, COMmunication, and COMpatibility. Sam ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 28 Nov 01 11:49:41 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 26 Message-ID: <1121.732T2086T7095287@sky.bus.com> References: <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> <9u047p$et3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <1006892135snz@dsl.co.uk> <3C04AA61.3AD00D29@gazonk.del> <3c04e120@news.sierratel.com> <3C04F91A.8EA1B345@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-327.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95395 In article <3C04F91A.8EA1B345@gazonk.del> fubar@gazonk.del (Foobar T. Clown) writes: [Bell 103-style modems] >The modems didn't know or care whether the DTEs were talking at >50 bps or at 300 bps or anywhere in between. I don't think it >would care if you tried to send faster than 300 bps. >Different story at the receiving end, though. If the tones changed >much faster than 300 baud, the receiver would fail to recognize them >as tones. It depends on the receiver. A local BBS (Frog Hollow, which is still alive and running on an OS/2 box) had an S-100 modem which theoretically could handle up to 710 baud. I tried strapping my IMSAI's SIO board to stuff 600 baud into my cheapo 300-baud modem, and the results were good enough for reading messages (one hit every 50 bytes or so). Apparently if you could get your serial port to run at 450 baud the results were pretty much perfect. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: Thomas Dzubin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:30:18 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Vancouver Community Network Lines: 19 Message-ID: <9u3l1a$60u$1@luna.vcn.bc.ca> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: vcn.bc.ca X-Trace: luna.vcn.bc.ca 1006983018 6174 207.102.64.2 (28 Nov 2001 21:30:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@vcn.bc.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:30:18 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: tin/1.4.5-20010409 ("One More Nightmare") (UNIX) (SunOS/5.8 (sun4u)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!nntp.itservices.ubc.ca!news.vcn.bc.ca!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95388 I've got an old Usenet map also from about six months later (I think) December 1981. that has about 50 more links. (I was on ihnp4!sask at the time) ...trouble is, it's saved in non-"e" form (paper) ...I guess I should really spend some time and type it in, post it and have www.dejanews.com hang onto it for the collective good. Thomas Dzubin Randal L. Schwartz wrote: > Well, even Usenet was up and running. Here's the map of the net around > that time (and I was reading via the "teklabs" link)... ... > USENET Logical Map > June 1, 1981 > !- Uucp links > : Berknet links > @ Arpanet links ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:46:22 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <1006983982snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> <1006892588snz@dsl.co.uk> <9u39b9$ebl$3@ichaos.ichaos-int> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1006987850 mail2news:12485 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95479 In article pete@fenelon.com "Pete Fenelon" writes: > Mail addressing over 91-2 was amusing, because you'd occasionally > have to reverse domains yourself (I recall mailing people at Sun as > whoever@com.sun.eng, for example!) but eventually it all settled down to > proper Internet order and X.25/coloured book died out. My rewrite rules for my smtp server here at home still contain this line: *@uk.co.dsl.co.uk $1@$h r because for a while some mailers became "confused" by the state of flux and started addressing nodes in both big- and little-endian order at the same time. I suppose it's probably safe to remove it now :-) > I don't know how many Great Renumberings went on during the early JIPS > days too - my entire institution was using (private or non-routeable, I > forget) addresses for its (relatively limited) network, and when > it got a Class B (blimey, doesn't that make it sound a long time > ago!) everything had to become 144.32.x.y overnight... Then of course > there was the time when York Regional Fire Authority in Toronto seemed > to get control of our DNS records... and of course anything crossposted > to york.general on one side of the Atlantic ended up in york.general on > the other... Coincidentally, my dsl.co.uk and dragonhill.co.uk domains were originally registered, through the NRS, in big-endian form. This worked fine for me for a couple or three years, until all of a sudden my mail to the "shortform" address[1] started vanishing. It turned out that Pipex registered the domain dsl.co.uk on behalf of Data Sciences Ltd. I was more than a little miffed by this, and complained vociferously: at which point the NRS folks told Pipex that big-endian registrations took priority, and they had to release the domain back to me. Oddly enough, they still have the IPTAG for my domain, although I've never used them: whereas my other domain has no IPTAG at all! Data Sciences have had the domain datasci.co.uk ever since this incident :-) [1] The NRS insisted that one registered both a longform and shortform domain name; this has caused me problems at various times when ISPs have tried to charge me for two lots of mail forwarding service. However, they've all relaxed their policy when I've pointed out that I was FORCED to have two domains, and that one is merely an alias for the other. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: mwojcik@newsguy.com (Michael Wojcik) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 28 Nov 2001 22:32:12 GMT Organization: Micro Focus Inc. Lines: 40 Message-ID: <9u3olc02tb1@enews3.newsguy.com> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> <1006892588snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: mwojcik@newsguy.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-983.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: xrn 9.00 Originator: mww@lorelei Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!mww Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95433 In article <1006892588snz@dsl.co.uk>, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) writes: > In article <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> > Juha.Laiho@iki.fi "Juha Laiho" writes: > > > John Alvord said: > > >Wasn't December 1981 when the XMAS "virus" washed over BITNET and the > > >IBM internel mail network? > > > > I recall that happening a lot later -- '88, I'd claim (got my univ. > > account on that year and hadn't been online in the big networks > > before that). > > Are you not thinking of the Morris Worm? I don't know what Juha is thinking of, but John's clearly referring to the IBM XMAS email trojan. Kate Orman in another post dates that as December 1987, which sounds right to me; I started at IBM in January 1988, and IIRC I wasn't around for the trojan itself but I heard about it as a recent event. > I believe the appearance of the word "virus" in quotes is an indication > that it wasn't actually a computer virus at all, but perhaps something > more akin to the sort of e-mail/Usenet virus that goes around the world > in seconds following a hoax "virus alert" No, it was a bona fide trojan. It was a VM/CMS EXEC (again IIRC) that was emailed around IBM. When run it displayed a nice Christmas tree picture using EBCDIC character graphics (on a 3270 or emulator). It also emailed itself to everyone in your personal address list, in much the manner that some Outlook trojans do today. Bogged the internal network down something fierce. -- Michael Wojcik michael.wojcik@microfocus.com Comms Development, Micro Focus Department of English, Miami University The movie culminated with a bit of everything. -- Jeremy Stephens ###### From: "Tracy Nelson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Lines: 14 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 01:00:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.248.62.17 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.sttln1.wa.home.com 1006995612 24.248.62.17 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:00:12 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:00:12 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!193.190.198.17.MISMATCH!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.sttln1.wa.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95470 "kyork" wrote in message news:3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com... > Ack! 1200 baud? My failing memory has them at 300 baud totally manual > (none of this auto dial stuff) & really flaky, even if you ignore the > acoustic couplers. I think the Hayes Smartmodems came our around this time (I know my roommate had a Smartmodem 1200 around '83). They were direct-connect (no acoustic coupling) and were pretty reliable if you could get an MNP connection (no MNP2/3/4/5/10, just MNP). And don't forget Kermit! ###### From: geoffm@spam.hormel.com ("Geoff McCaughan") Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> <9u047p$et3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <1006892135snz@dsl.co.uk> <3C04AA61.3AD00D29@gazonk.del> <3c04e120@news.sierratel.com> <3C04F91A.8EA1B345@gazonk.del> Organization: "Mirrorshades R Us" Lines: 19 X-Newsreader: TIN [Windows/NT 1.3 950824BETA PL0] Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 01:29:49 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.55.57.143 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 1006997389 210.55.57.143 (Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:29:49 NZDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:29:49 NZDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!HELWS04!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95434 Foobar T. Clown (fubar@gazonk.del) wrote: > > I guess there were some other little details: It had to be able to > notify the DTE whether the phone was ringing, and whether it was > receiving a signal; and the DTE had to be able to tell it to go off hook > or on hook. All of that was accomplished, not by sending commands over > the Tx and Rx lines, but by driving other lines in the RS-232 cable high > or low as appropriate. The modems didn't know or care whether the DTEs > were talking at 50 bps or at 300 bps or anywhere in between. I don't > think it would care if you tried to send faster than 300 bps. > Different story at the receiving end, though. If the tones changed > much faster than 300 baud, the receiver would fail to recognize them > as tones. We didn't do Bell in this part of the world, but I do remember using BBS software that would 'overclock' a 300bps modem. If you had the same capability on your terminal emulator you could crank it up to a blistering 450bps. ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 28 Nov 2001 18:54:56 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 28 Nov 2001 18:58:13 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!193.190.198.17.MISMATCH!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95452 "Tracy Nelson" writes: > I think the Hayes Smartmodems came our around this time (I know my roommate > had a Smartmodem 1200 around '83). They were direct-connect (no acoustic > coupling) and were pretty reliable if you could get an MNP connection (no > MNP2/3/4/5/10, just MNP). The Hayes Smartmodem 300 was introduced in 1980 or so, IIRC. It didn't have any error control or compression. A friend pulled the board out of one and built it into his TRS-80 Model III just under the lower disk drive. ###### From: "Walter Rottenkolber" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:31:01 -0800 Lines: 29 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.155.25.14 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.155.25.14 Message-ID: <3c065abf$2@news.sierratel.com> X-Trace: news.sierratel.com 1007049407 209.155.25.14 (29 Nov 2001 07:56:47 -0800) Organization: news.sierratel.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news.sierratel.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95417 Eric Smith wrote in message ... >"Tracy Nelson" writes: >> I think the Hayes Smartmodems came our around this time (I know my roommate >> had a Smartmodem 1200 around '83). They were direct-connect (no acoustic >> coupling) and were pretty reliable if you could get an MNP connection (no >> MNP2/3/4/5/10, just MNP). > >The Hayes Smartmodem 300 was introduced in 1980 or so, IIRC. It didn't >have any error control or compression. A friend pulled the board out of >one and built it into his TRS-80 Model III just under the lower disk >drive. > IIRC the 300 baud modem was considered high speed as earlier modems had variable rates from ?50 baud to something over 110 baud. Basically they were for connecting TTY machines together or modem programs that emulated them. Most of these were acoustic coupled because the phone company made an expensive todo about direct modem connects. The early 300 baud modems were usually direct connect but you had to get an approved coupler from the phone company. Eventually the government had to step in to develop standards for modems on POTS, and to loosen the monopoly grip of Ma Bell. Otherwise the internet for everyone would still be a dream. Walter Rottenkolber ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 01:56:10 -0700 Organization: Systematic Software Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: h-207-148-144-88.dial.cadvision.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.cadvision.com 1007024179 14456 207.148.144.88 (29 Nov 2001 08:56:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cadvision.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:56:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp.cadvision.com!207.228.64.17.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95472 On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:08:10 GMT, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: >One of the other frequent places to "visit" was Tymshare. Tymshare >(large mainframe, online VM/370 service bureau) had set up special >online (essentially free) newsgroup operation for Share (ibm mainframe >users group) to discuss VM/370 (VMSHARE) and (later) IBM/PC (PCSHARE). ... which was accessible world-wide over the international X.25 network (DataPac in Canada). Having replaced 1200bps dialup modems with 9600bps X.25 links (Memotec gear) to/from field offices across Canada in early 80s, appreciated being able to dial local 3101 PAD from home and connect across the world. Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov spam traps ###### Message-ID: <3C05F539.4740E58F@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com> <3C04A6B4.9F7181FE@gazonk.del> <3C0550B1.5B53E67F@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:37:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.167.246 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1007026657 12.90.167.246 (Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:37:37 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:37:37 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.72!wnfilter2!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95484 Charles Richmond wrote: > ... snip ... > > > DecWriters could be had with APL keycaps, as could a crummy terminal > known as a Tel-Ray. You could *not* use a screen editor on such a > Tel-Ray, because it always printed to the bottom line of the CRT. We used a lot of Tel-Rays, and had good results. Some of their earliest ones were not so hot (they used shift register storage, and when one of those PMos chips failed ...). One version used a 6502 controller, whose code I hacked for something or other to do with programmable function keys. We used them as Ascii terminals, never APL. Every year they supplied me with a new calendar, dated 56 years before, with car pictures appropriate to the date. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 161 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:49:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.245.8.249 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1007056161 209.245.8.249 (Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:49:21 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:49:21 PST X-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:49:17 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95418 Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes: > i had gotten a 2741 early in 70 as a home terminal with one of those > accoustic modems that you placed the hand-set inside and closed the > cover. 2741 ran at 134cps. somewhat unrelated ... but a batch of old RFCs went out today (i.e. early paper only copies are being transcribed) 12, 89, 145, 338, 466, 525, 546, 547, 549, 570 there was also another batch that went out earlier this month: 80, 88, 222, 264, 409, 460, 508, 524, 528, 532, 538, 543, 553 couple intros Network Working Group B. Metcalff Request for Comments: 89 MITDG NIC: 5697 19 January 1971 SOME HISTORIC MOMENTS IN NETWORKING While awaiting the completion of an interim network control program (INCP) for the MIT MAC Dynamic Modeling/Computer Graphics PDP-6/10 System (MITDG), we were able to achieve a number of 'historic moments in networking' worthy of some comment. First, we were able to connect an MITDG terminal to a Multics process making it a Multics terminal. Second, we successfully attached an MITDG terminal to the Harvard PDP-10 System thereby enabling automatic remote use of the Harvard System for MIT. Third, we developed primitive mechanisms through which remotely generated programs and data could be transmitted to our system, executed, and returned. Using these mechanisms in close cooperation with Harvard, we received graphics programs and 3D data from Harvard's PDP-10, processed them repeatedly using our Evans & Sutherland Line Drawing System (the E&S), and transmitted 2D scope data to Harvard's PDP-1 for display. Network Working Group R.T. Braden Request for Comments: 338 UCLA/CCN NIC: 9931 17 May 1972 EBCDIC/ASCII MAPPING FOR NETWORK RJE A. INTRODUCTION Under NETRJS [1], CCN's Network rje protocol [2], a virtual remote batch terminal may be either EBCDIC or ASCII. CCN operates an IBM 360/91 which performs all of its normal processing in EBCDIC. When a virtual ASCII terminal signs onto NETRJS, CCN translates the "card reader" stream to EBCDIC and translates the "printer" stream back to ASCII [3]. In recent months, a number of ASCII hosts (RAND PDP-10, Utah PDP-10, Illinois PDP-11) have completed user processes for NETRJS. Several users at these sites have noted deficiencies in the ASCII/EBCDIC mapping rules originally implemented in NETRJS. Since their objections were well founded, we have altered the existing mapping and added a new one. Network Working Group J. Winett Request for Comments: 466 LL-67 NIC: 14740 27 February 1973 Category: TELNET TELNET LOGGER/SERVER For Host LL-67 The attached writeup documents the TELNET LOGGER/SERVER for the CP/CMS system on the Lincoln Laboratory 360>67 (host 10). The facility serves both half duplex and full duplex TELNET users with data in either ASCII or EBCDIC codes. Use of the hide-your-input and noecho TELNET controls are used for the EBCDIC print suppress (bypass) and print restore features during the login procedure. To support half duplex terminals, the TELNET control break (reverse break) is sent as an input prompt when input is desired. This code can also be used to indicate that a previous line sent without an end of line sequence (CR-LF) should be printed. Network Working Group W. Parrish Request for Comments: 525 J. Pickens NIC: 17161 Computer Systems Laboratory -- UCSB 1 June 1973 MIT-MATHLAB MEETS UCSB-OLS: An Example of Resource Sharing I. Introduction A. Resource Sharing, A Comment Non-trivial resource sharing among dissimilar system is a much discussed concept which, to date, has seen only a few real applications. [See NIC 13538, "1972 Summary of Research Activities (UTAH) for description of Tony Hearn's TENEX-CCN Programming Link.] The first attempts have utilized the most easily accessible communication paths, (TELNET and RJS) and the most universal representations of numbers (byte-oriented numeric characters in scientific notation). Future schemes will probably be more efficient through standardized data and control protocols, but even with the existing approaches users are gaining experience with combinations of resources previously not available. Network Working Group J. White Request for Comments: 524 SRI-ARC NIC: 17140 13 June 1973 A Proposed Mail Protocol AUTHOR'S INTENT This is the document I offered in (15146,) to write. It's a proposed specification for handling mail in the Network -- a Mail Protocol. Main handling is currently implemented as two FTP commands, MAIL and MLFL, which permit an FTP user process to deliver a file or string of text to an FTP server process, designating it as mail to be made available to a user, identified by a local name, in its host. The protocol proposed here is much richer than that, both in terms of the functions it supports, and in terms of the flexibility it provides. Network Working Group J. McQuillan Request for Comments: 528 BBN-NET NIC: 17164 20 June 1973 SOFTWARE CHECKSUMMING IN THE IMP AND NETWORK RELIABILITY As the ARPA Network has developed over the last few years, and our experience with operating the IMP subnetwork has grown, the issue of reliability has assumed greater importance and greater complexity. This note describes some modifications that have recently been made to the IMP and TIP programs in this regard. These changes are mechanically minor and do not affect Host operation at all, but they are logically noteworthy, and for this reason we have explained the workings of the new IMP and TIP programs in some detail. Host personnel are advised to note particularly the modifications described in sections 4 and 5, as they may wish to change their own programs or operating procedures. Network Working Group A. McKenzie Request for Comments: 538 BBN-NET NIC: 17642 5 July 1973 Updates: RFC 522 Traffic Statistics (June 1973) ABSTRACT Attached are the Host traffic statistics for the month of June 1973. -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> Organization: Metropolis Grafix Reply-To: stanb@dial.pipex.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Date: 29 Nov 2001 18:29:39 GMT Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62-190-202-88.pdu.pipex.net X-Trace: 1007058579 news.dial.pipex.com 233 62.190.202.88 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsfeed.online.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!bnewspeer00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!bnewspost00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95398 On 28 Nov 2001 18:54:56 -0800, Eric Smith wrote: >"Tracy Nelson" writes: >> I think the Hayes Smartmodems came our around this time (I know my roommate >> had a Smartmodem 1200 around '83). They were direct-connect (no acoustic >> coupling) and were pretty reliable if you could get an MNP connection (no >> MNP2/3/4/5/10, just MNP). > >The Hayes Smartmodem 300 was introduced in 1980 or so, IIRC. It didn't >have any error control or compression. A friend pulled the board out of >one and built it into his TRS-80 Model III just under the lower disk >drive. > I found an announcement of the Hayes Smartmodem in "What's New", Byte, August 1981, so it must have appeared about then. Plenty of 300bps modems in the adverts, and a Penryl 300/1200 bps for $799 Other intereting adverts included a 26Mb hard disk at a new low price of $3795! And wire wrap tools....still got mine somewhere. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> <3c065abf$2@news.sierratel.com> Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 29 Nov 2001 11:20:08 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 29 Nov 2001 11:23:32 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!216.218.192.242!news.he.net!news.kjsl.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95448 "Walter Rottenkolber" writes: > IIRC the 300 baud modem was considered high speed as earlier modems had > variable rates from ?50 baud to something over 110 baud. Even the early 103-type modems could handle 300 baud. It was only the terminal equipment that had lower limits, such as 110 baud on the famous ASR33 Teletype. > The early 300 baud modems were > usually direct connect but you had to get an approved coupler from the phone > company. Usually a type CBS or CBT. Hard to find them now. ###### Message-ID: <3C068159.BB010060@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> <3c065abf$2@news.sierratel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 42 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:22:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.177.74 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1007061732 12.90.177.74 (Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:22:12 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:22:12 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95482 Walter Rottenkolber wrote: > > Eric Smith wrote in message ... > >"Tracy Nelson" writes: > >> I think the Hayes Smartmodems came our around this time (I know > >> my roommate had a Smartmodem 1200 around '83). They were > >> direct-connect (no acoustic coupling) and were pretty reliable > >> if you could get an MNP connection (no MNP2/3/4/5/10, just MNP). > > > >The Hayes Smartmodem 300 was introduced in 1980 or so, IIRC. It > >didn't have any error control or compression. A friend pulled the > >board out of one and built it into his TRS-80 Model III just under > >the lower disk drive. > > IIRC the 300 baud modem was considered high speed as earlier modems > had variable rates from ?50 baud to something over 110 baud. > Basically they were for connecting TTY machines together or modem > programs that emulated them. Most of these were acoustic coupled > because the phone company made an expensive todo about direct modem > connects. The early 300 baud modems were usually direct connect but > you had to get an approved coupler from the phone company. > Eventually the government had to step in to develop standards for > modems on POTS, and to loosen the monopoly grip of Ma Bell. > Otherwise the internet for everyone would still be a dream. The interface requirement is still there - it is just filled by the modem manufacturer themselves. Enter ringer equivalents, and you can't draw more than about 1 mA in the offhook condition, etc. There are also restrictions on power density over the band, to avoid interfering with in-band signalling. Don't know the details, just that they exist. IIRC it was MCI that got their start by winning a suit against Ma to allow direct connects. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> <3c065abf$2@news.sierratel.com> Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Lines: 37 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2479.0006 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:39:43 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.93.110.235 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1007062640 65.93.110.235 (Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:37:20 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:37:20 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95458 "Eric Smith" wrote in message news:qhn115l6zb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com... > "Walter Rottenkolber" writes: > > IIRC the 300 baud modem was considered high speed as earlier modems had > > variable rates from ?50 baud to something over 110 baud. > > Even the early 103-type modems could handle 300 baud. It was only > the terminal equipment that had lower limits, such as 110 baud on the > famous ASR33 Teletype. > > > The early 300 baud modems were > > usually direct connect but you had to get an approved coupler from the phone > > company. > > Usually a type CBS or CBT. Hard to find them now. I have an early modem here, 110 or 300 baud that dates from the mid 70's. It is labeled model ENA 113a, serial number 145, and made by edmunde newhall assoc. ltd., for bell canada. It handles RS-232 or current loop. The rs-232 is a standard D connector, while the current loop is screw connectors. There are also screw connectors labeled talk, data, +V, data mode, (T1 R1 -telephone), and (T R -line). Telephones did not have jacks at that time. It was used to connect to a PDP-10 originally, then to my first home computer (a PDP-8 model E). I was using an ASR33 teletype with it originally, but later upgraded to an olivetti 300 baud printing terminal ... do not remember what the model. I think that it was purchased in 1975, but I could be out a year or two either way. Donald ###### From: "PLZI" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Lines: 13 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:24:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.177.74.186 X-Trace: read2.inet.fi 1007065447 131.177.74.186 (Thu, 29 Nov 2001 22:24:07 EET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 22:24:07 EET Organization: Sonera corp Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!news.cc.tut.fi!levitin.saunalahti.fi!nntp.inet.fi!central.inet.fi!inet.fi!read2.inet.fi.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95410 "Stan Barr" wrote in message news:slrna0c0de.aie.stanb@citadel.metropolis.local... > > of $3795! And wire wrap tools....still got mine somewhere. The Holy Tool. Find it, and always carry it with you, brother. :) - PLZI ###### From: Juha Laiho Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Lines: 16 Message-ID: <9u660p$jj5$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <1006892588snz@dsl.co.uk> <9u39b9$ebl$3@ichaos.ichaos-int> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Originator: jlaiho@ichaos.ichaos-int (Juha Laiho) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:35:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.28.169.169 X-Trace: read2.inet.fi 1007066159 213.28.169.169 (Thu, 29 Nov 2001 22:35:59 EET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 22:35:59 EET Organization: Sonera corp Internet services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!news.cc.tut.fi!levitin.saunalahti.fi!nntp.inet.fi!central.inet.fi!inet.fi!read2.inet.fi.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95416 Pete Fenelon said: >Anyone remember all the uk.ac.blah.cs mails that used to end up in >Czechoslovakia (now also gone), Ow... >or the joys of trying to send mail to uk.tele.nokia.fi (which I'm sure >was named just to be perverse!) Hmm.. that would've been the Cambridge (or possibly Camberley, but I think Cambridge) office. -- Wolf a.k.a. Juha Laiho Espoo, Finland (GC 3.0) GIT d- s+: a C++ ULSH++++$ P++@ L+++ E- W+$@ N++ !K w !O !M V PS(+) PE Y+ PGP(+) t- 5 !X R !tv b+ !DI D G e+ h--- r+++ y+++ "...cancel my subscription to the resurrection!" (Jim Morrison) ###### Message-ID: <3C06A615.9F9976CE@start.com.au> From: Kate Orman X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 5 Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:18:13 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.23.147.129 X-Complaints-To: news@pacific.net.au X-Trace: nasal.pacific.net.au 1007068660 210.23.147.129 (Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:17:40 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:17:40 EST Organization: Pacific Internet (Australia) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.interpacket.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!nasal.pacific.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95492 Just wanted to thank everyone for their reminisces of early eighties computing - both fascinating and helpful for my book. Cheers! - Kate Orman ###### From: "Malcolm" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:38:34 -0000 Lines: 28 Message-ID: <9u69rm$hj4$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> <1006892588snz@dsl.co.uk> <9u39b9$ebl$3@ichaos.ichaos-int> NNTP-Posting-Host: neverness.freeserve.co.uk X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 1007069878 18020 62.137.132.62 (29 Nov 2001 21:37:58 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Nov 2001 21:37:58 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet-peer!btnet!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95519 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Fenelon" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Sent: 28 November 2001 18:44 Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 [...] > > Anyone remember all the uk.ac.blah.cs mails that used to end up in > Czechoslovakia (now also gone), or the joys of trying to send mail to > uk.tele.nokia.fi (which I'm sure was named just to be perverse!) > No.. but I do remember being told about the headaches uk.sun.com caused ;-) > > PAD> CALL TS+000006000028 $ SET HOST /X29 00006060180150 Amazing I can still remember some of those numbers ;-) -Malcolm > > pete > ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 72 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:24:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.245.6.155 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1007083496 209.245.6.155 (Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:24:56 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:24:56 PST X-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:24:52 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95516 Christopher Stacy writes: > Actually, the cutover was in late 1982, although some hosts > did not make the transition in time, and were cut off. the cut-over date was 1/1/93 from posting http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#18 Is Al Gore The Father of the Internet? Date: 30 Dec 1982 14:45:34 EST (Thursday) From: Nancy Mimno Subject: Notice of TCP/IP Transition on ARPANET To: csnet-liaisons at Udel-Relay Cc: mimno at Bbn-Unix Via: Bbn-Unix; 30 Dec 82 16:07-EST Via: Udel-Relay; 30 Dec 82 13:15-PDT Via: Rand-Relay; 30 Dec 82 16:30-EST ARPANET Transition 1 January 1983 Possible Service Disruption --------------------------------- Dear Liaison, As many of you may be aware, the ARPANET has been going through the major transition of shifting the host-host level protocol from NCP (Network Control Protocol/Program) to TCP-IP (Transmission Control Protocol - Internet Protocol). These two host-host level protocols are completely different and are incompatible. This transition has been planned and carried out over the past several years, proceeding from initial test implementations through parallel operation over the last year, and culminating in a cutover to TCP-IP only 1 January 1983. DCA and DARPA have provided substantial support for TCP-IP development throughout this period and are committed to the cutover date. The CSNET team has been doing all it can to facilitate its part in this transition. The change to TCP-IP is complete for all the CSNET host facilities that use the ARPANET: the CSNET relays at Delaware and Rand, the CSNET Service Host and Name Server at Wisconsin, the CSNET CIC at BBN, and the X.25 development system at Purdue. Some of these systems have been using TCP-IP for quite a while, and therefore we expect few problems. (Please note that we say "few", not "NO problems"!) Mail between Phonenet sites should not be affected by the ARPANET transition. However, mail between Phonenet sites and ARPANET sites (other than the CSNET facilities noted above) may be disrupted. The transition requires a major change in each of the more than 250 hosts on the ARPANET; as might be expected, not all hosts will be ready on 1 January 1983. For CSNET, this means that disruption of mail communication will likely result between Phonenet users and some ARPANET users. Mail to/from some ARPANET hosts may be delayed; some host mail service may be unreliable; some hosts may be completely unreachable. Furthermore, for some ARPANET hosts this disruption may last a long time, until their TCP-IP implementations are up and working smoothly. While we cannot control the actions of ARPANET hosts, please let us know if we can assist with problems, particularly by clearing up any confusion. As always, we are ; or (617)497-2777. Please pass this information on to your users. Respectfully yours, Nancy Mimno CSNET CIC Liaison -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: gds@best.com.cuthere (Greg Skinner) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> Organization: a user of Best Internet Communications, Inc. www.best.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:26:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.184.139.136 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: sea-read.news.verio.net 1007083595 206.184.139.136 (Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:26:35 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:26:35 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!204.71.34.15!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!sea-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95537 In article <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au>, Kate Orman wrote: >Hi! I'm writing a novel set around Christmas 1981. The story involves >cracking (aka hacking) computers, as well as phone phreaking. I've read >a bunch of net history online and in books (and I'm hugely enjoying >reading a.f.c), but I still need help with specific details of what the >net was like at the time - for instance, what did computers' addresses >look like before domain names. I've got someone trying to telnet to port >25 and I'm not even sure you could *do* that then. I'd be extremely >grateful for any help or pointers! If your character is very curious and resourceful, perhaps [s]he discovers some of the experimental TCP/IP sites that are around back then. --gregbo gds at best.com ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:27:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.245.6.155 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1007083646 209.245.6.155 (Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:27:26 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:27:26 PST X-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:27:22 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!uucp.muenster.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95512 Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes: > the cut-over date was 1/1/93 finger-slip 1/1/83 -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: gds@best.com.cuthere (Greg Skinner) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <87lmgt8k19.fsf@prep.synonet.com> <3C031FCC.8392E498@gazonk.del> Organization: a user of Best Internet Communications, Inc. www.best.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:40:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.184.139.136 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: sea-read.news.verio.net 1007084441 206.184.139.136 (Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:40:41 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:40:41 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!sea-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95539 In article <3C031FCC.8392E498@gazonk.del>, Foobar T. Clown wrote: >Paul Repacholi wrote: >> 81-82 is a bit early for ethernet, that was still 12-18 months away >> although there would have been some in odd places. >So, what? Odd places don't count? >Carnegie-Mellon University had an Ethernet when I arrived there in 1979. >It was kind of an odd place now that I think about it. At least, there >were some odd people lurking there. MIT-LCS must've had some kind of Ethernet back in the early 80s, because there were Xerox Altos in several of the LCS professors' offices. There were also vaxen running experimental versions of TCP/IP (4.1bsd perhaps -- I forget). There were, of course, Lisp machines running on MIT's Chaosnet. Sometime around 1981, the undergraduate Lisp class moved onto HP PCs (sorry, I don't remember the model). I don't remember offhand whether or not they were networked. --gregbo gds at best.com ###### From: "Walter Rottenkolber" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <3C0271ED.1050400@cisco.com> Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:40:28 -0800 Lines: 42 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.155.30.169 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.155.30.169 Message-ID: <3c072f06@news.sierratel.com> X-Trace: news.sierratel.com 1007103750 209.155.30.169 (29 Nov 2001 23:02:30 -0800) Organization: news.sierratel.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.ulv.nextra.no!nextra.com!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news.sierratel.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95500 Stan Barr wrote in message ... >On 28 Nov 2001 18:54:56 -0800, Eric Smith > wrote: >>"Tracy Nelson" writes: >>> I think the Hayes Smartmodems came our around this time (I know my roommate >>> had a Smartmodem 1200 around '83). They were direct-connect (no acoustic >>> coupling) and were pretty reliable if you could get an MNP connection (no >>> MNP2/3/4/5/10, just MNP). >> >>The Hayes Smartmodem 300 was introduced in 1980 or so, IIRC. It didn't >>have any error control or compression. A friend pulled the board out of >>one and built it into his TRS-80 Model III just under the lower disk >>drive. >> > >I found an announcement of the Hayes Smartmodem in "What's New", Byte, >August 1981, so it must have appeared about then. Plenty of 300bps >modems in the adverts, and a Penryl 300/1200 bps for $799 > >Other intereting adverts included a 26Mb hard disk at a new low price >of $3795! And wire wrap tools....still got mine somewhere. >-- >Cheers, >Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com Got my first modem in 1984. A Cermetec 'Info-Mate 199SA', the first 300/1200 baud modem advertised for under $200 ($1 under to be exact). Only problem, it didn't use the Hayes codes, so I had to patch together my own modem program from PD sources if I didn't want to run the thing manually. A great 'learning experience' in 8080 assembler. Walter Rottenkolber ###### Message-ID: <3C07B46B.7000707@beagle-ears.com> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:31:39 -0800 From: Lars Poulsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: da,en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.154.106.6 X-Trace: azure.impulse.net 1007137836 189 207.154.106.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!64.245.249.19.MISMATCH!dfw3-feed1.news.digex.net!dca6-feed1.news.digex.net!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!sienna.impulse.net!azure.impulse.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95499 Christopher Stacy wrote: >>>>>>On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:26:38 -0800, Lars Poulsen ("Lars") writes: >>>>>> > > Lars> Kate Orman wrote: > >> Hi! I'm writing a novel set around Christmas 1981. The story involves > >> cracking (aka hacking) computers, as well as phone phreaking. >> > Lars> Fall of 1981 is not too distant from when I got on the 'net, so > Lars> maybe I can help you a bit. By 1981, the network was solidly > Lars> TCP/IP, and FTP, telnet and SMTP were firmly in place, but of > Lars> course WWW was about a decade into the future. > >Actually, the cutover was in late 1982, although some hosts >did not make the transition in time, and were cut off. > The official cutover date reflects the termination of NCP services, but TCP/IP had been running for almost two years before that, IIRC. New sites coming in after mid-1981 were not running NCP. ###### From: Joel Gallun Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 30 Nov 2001 13:49:51 -0500 Organization: AOL Time Warner Lines: 8 Sender: snake@severn.office.aol.com Message-ID: References: <3C06A615.9F9976CE@start.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: severn.office.aol.com X-Trace: inntp-m1.news.aol.com 1007146191 11396 10.0.34.253 (30 Nov 2001 18:49:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@aol.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:49:51 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!nntp-internal.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95540 Kate Orman writes: > Just wanted to thank everyone for their reminisces of early eighties > computing - both fascinating and helpful for my book. Cheers! Tell the truth -- you're really sorry you asked, aren't you :) :) :) Joel ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Sun, 02 Dec 01 11:37:32 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9udauj$6pr$4@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <9u041r$et3$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <3C04A7BD.22EA5565@gazonk.del> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYnnV6nq6d7v1MJOYHrweetIhWpROZ83iBAmy/Fb8doATyCZcDIX195 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Dec 2001 13:39:31 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-24 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95664 In article <3C04A7BD.22EA5565@gazonk.del>, "Foobar T. Clown" wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> [...] Patrick Scheible wrote: >> > >> >[...] DECnet was used a lot in academic circles. >> >> Not in 1981. If they had a PDP-10 and running TOPS-10, they >> were using ANF-10. [...] > >How 'bout on Tops-20? I remember using DECnet to transfer files between >TOPS-20 systems at Carnegie-Mellon U. sometime in the early eighties. >Could it have been as early as '81? If not, I don't think it was a LOT >later. I don't think it could have been '81. IIRC, I think TOPS-20 shipped Phase II in 1982 or so (pre-PDP-10-cancellation).hmmm... and then, I could be wrong. Anyway Phase II DECnet was not very interesting. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Allodoxaphobia Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com> <3C04A6B4.9F7181FE@gazonk.del> <3C0550B1.5B53E67F@ev1.net> <3C05F539.4740E58F@yahoo.com> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> Reply-To: If You Reply Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.2 (Linux) Date: 01 Dec 2001 20:00:22 GMT Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.105.232.12 X-Trace: 1007236822 reader0.ash.ops.us.uu.net 24917 63.105.232.12 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!uunet!ash.uu.net!spool0900.news.uu.net!reader0900.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95654 On Sat, 01 Dec 2001 05:24:37 GMT, Charles Richmond scribbled: > CBFalconer wrote: >> >> Every year they supplied me with a new calendar, dated 56 years >> before, with car pictures appropriate to the date. >> > Is the calendar 56 years prior *always* the same as the current > year's calendar??? Or maybe every year since 1957 would work??? I thought the calendar repeated every 17 years. But, maybe I'm wayyy off, he mumbles, as the thread drifts off into new geography... Jonesy -- | Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | OS/2 | Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | linux __ | 7,703' -- 2,345m | frontier.net | DM68mn SK ###### From: Ron Hunsinger Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Message-ID: <011220011221256058%hunsinger@mac.com> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com> <3C04A6B4.9F7181FE@gazonk.del> <3C0550B1.5B53E67F@ev1.net> <3C05F539.4740E58F@yahoo.com> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> Organization: ErsteSoft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit User-Agent: YA-NewsWatcher/3.1.8 Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.103.86.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.com 1007237586 ST000 216.103.86.8 (Sat, 01 Dec 2001 15:13:06 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 15:13:06 EST X-UserInfo1: OH[ORW_DRRRS@^LYMRKNOPDA[X_LPO@FLA]T]_MIJQR@EPIB_VUKAH_[MTX\IS[K[NGYJJFNOFZR_G[BUNTAOQLFE^TEHRPI]PZZRP_BMDSFQFL_]CBHXRWCMDCUZAZN@D_AKMNLEI]MWHCSXL^]NNC__CZFGSGHYYXWPFG@SCAVA]\FT\@B\RDGENSUQS^M Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 20:13:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95639 In article <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: > Is the calendar 56 years prior *always* the same as the current > year's calendar??? Or maybe every year since 1957 would work??? Except for intervals that cross the century non-leap years (years like 1900 and 2100 that are multiples of 100 but not of 400), the calandar repeats every 28 years. -Ron Hunsinger ###### Message-ID: <3C09607C.1010203@beagle-ears.com> Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 14:58:04 -0800 From: Lars Poulsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: da,en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <3C07B46B.7000707@beagle-ears.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 120 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.154.106.6 X-Trace: azure.impulse.net 1007247400 189 207.154.106.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!feed1.newsreader.com!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!sienna.impulse.net!azure.impulse.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95633 On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:31:39 -0800, Lars Poulsen ("Lars") writes: > Lars> The official cutover date reflects the termination of NCP > Lars> services, but TCP/IP had been running for almost two years > Lars> before that, IIRC. New sites coming in after mid-1981 were not > Lars> running NCP. > Christopher Stacy wrote: >If by "had been running" you mean "a few experimental systems were >trying to send packets to each other", yes. But even after the >official termination of NCP in January of 1983, many sites had not >deployed TCP, and the major operating systems (TOPS-10, TOPS-20, Unix) >had serious problems with it. The net was fairly screwed up for quite >a while, and lots of places lost either total or reliable connectivity. >It went from being the rock-solid full-service ARPANET to the terribly >flakey, highly discontinuous, super-slow, Internet; and it didn't really >settle down until about a year later. > I'm pretty sure that ACC joined in early 1982, running VDH from the IMP at El Segundo. Our networked PDP-11/70 was initially running V6 Unix with a network code that BBN had done for the Air Force, IIRC. I'm fairly positive that we were running TCP, but I could be mistaken. I do remember that the code was buggy as hell, and SMTP would often hang. I started hacking it on my own, writing my own user mode utilities to read and write from sockets, although I'm sure it was not using the socket API. About a year later, we brought up a VAX-11/780 with 4.2BSD, and it was much more stable. I can see why someone who has seen a stable system getting supplanted with a new, more flaky system might be hesitant to move forward. On the other hand, the people that joined when I did, went from no connectivity to a wonderful and ever-improving system, so our recollections of the period would obviously differ. >After (and shortly before the January deadline) there were periodic >RFCs that surveyed which hosts were "doing" TCP/IP, based on network >packet statistics. I don't remember what they said, but as both >technically and political motivated documents, I bet they painted >a much rosier picture than the reality of the situation. > I remember those RFCs. So I decided to go and look for them, and on the way - as usual - I came across all sorts of other interesting stuff. (1) 15 Years of Routing and Addressing by Joi L. Chevalier http://www.matrix.net/publications/mn/mn1101_routing_and_addressing.html "As the predecessor to the Internet, the ARPANET, grew and began to connect to other networks, all of which wanted to send electronic text messages, mail routing became more and more complicated. Specifically, sending messages became more complex with the switch from Network Control Protocol (NCP) to Transmission Control Protocol (TCP). The two main reasons for moving away from NCP were: (1) NCP limited the number of hosts to 255, and (2) inflexibility. Between 1978 and 1981 an ever-increasing number of hosts on ARPANET employed the TCP/IP suite. In November 1981 Jon Postel issued RFC 801 (NCP/TCP Transition Plan). The big switch from NCP to TCP occurred on 1 January 1983. While it was not a complete switchover, by Washington's Birthday of 1983, well over half of the host sites on the Internet were running TCP/IP." (2) RFC 0801 NCP/TCP Transition Plan. J Postel, Nov 1981 Last NCP Conversion Begins Jan 82 The last NCP-only host begins conversion to TCP. Mail Relay Service Jan 82 The SMTP (RFC 788) mail service begins to operate and at least one mail relay host is operational, and at least one special forwarder is operational to provide NCP-only host to TCP-only host mail connectivity. Normal Internet Service Jul 82 Most hosts are TCP-capable and use TCP-based services. Last NCP Conversion Completed Nov 82 The last NCP-only host completes conversion to TCP. Full Internet Service Jan 83 All hosts are TCP-capable and use TCP-based services. NCP is removed from service, relay services end, all services are TCP-based. (3) RFC 0832 Who talks TCP?. D. Smallberg. Dec-07-1982. http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc0832.txt RFC 0847 Summary of Smallberg surveys. D. Smallberg, A. Westine, J. Postel. Feb-01-1983. http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc0847.txt For 3 months, the survey "Who talks TCP?" was published weekly. "One would not expect the percentage to reach 100, since some hosts will be down when the surveys are run, but many hosts are for special purposes and don't offer these services. We estimate that 37 hosts or 11 percent are in this catagory and the highest percentage one could reasonably expect is 89. TELNET RFC DATE ACCEPT TOTAL PERCENT --- ---- ------ ----- ------- 832 7 Dec 82 83 315 26 833 14 Dec 82 103 314 33 834 22 Dec 82 102 314 32 835 28 Dec 82 95 314 30 836 4 Jan 83 151 315 48 837 11 Jan 83 171 323 53 838 18 Jan 83 172 323 53 839 25 Jan 83 182 323 56 842 1 Feb 83 183 382 48 843 8 Feb 83 187 329 57 845 15 Feb 83 176 329 53 846 22 Feb 83 190 325 56 ###### From: gorilla@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 1 Dec 2001 23:06:45 GMT Organization: Ye 'Ol Disorganized NNTPCache groupie Lines: 43 Message-ID: <1007248004.953122@elaine.furryape.com> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C05F539.4740E58F@yahoo.com> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-833.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: gorilla@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) Cache-Post-Path: elaine.furryape.com!unknown@elaine.furryape.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!bos-service1.ext.raytheon.com!cyclone.swbell.net!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95644 In article , Allodoxaphobia wrote: >On Sat, 01 Dec 2001 05:24:37 GMT, Charles Richmond scribbled: >> CBFalconer wrote: >>> >>> Every year they supplied me with a new calendar, dated 56 years >>> before, with car pictures appropriate to the date. >>> >> Is the calendar 56 years prior *always* the same as the current >> year's calendar??? Or maybe every year since 1957 would work??? > >I thought the calendar repeated every 17 years. >But, maybe I'm wayyy off, he mumbles, as the thread drifts >off into new geography... Not true regardless of which definition of 'repeated every 17 years' you mean: January 2001 Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 January 1984 Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 January 1985 Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,bit.listserv.ibm-main Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <3C07B46B.7000707@beagle-ears.com> <3C09607C.1010203@beagle-ears.com> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 149 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 00:18:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.245.3.15 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1007252305 209.245.3.15 (Sat, 01 Dec 2001 16:18:25 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 16:18:25 PST X-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 16:18:26 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95641 Lars Poulsen writes: > http://www.matrix.net/publications/mn/mn1101_routing_and_addressing.html > > "As the predecessor to the Internet, the ARPANET, grew and began to > connect to other networks, all of which wanted to send electronic text > messages, mail routing became more and more complicated. > Specifically, sending messages became more complex with the switch > from Network Control Protocol (NCP) to Transmission Control Protocol > (TCP). The two main reasons for moving away from NCP were: > (1) NCP limited the number of hosts to 255, and (2) inflexibility. > Between 1978 and 1981 an ever-increasing number of hosts on ARPANET > employed the TCP/IP suite. In November 1981 Jon Postel issued RFC 801 > (NCP/TCP Transition Plan). The big switch from NCP to TCP occurred on > 1 January 1983. While it was not a complete switchover, by Washington's > Birthday of 1983, well over half of the host sites on the Internet were > running TCP/IP." note that JES2 network also fell into the same trap ... however, it was slightly more severe. HASP original had a one byte/255 for all its psuedo devices. HASP network (TUCC?) crafted network nodes into the psuedo device table index ... so the actual number of max. nodes was 255 less the number of a psuedo devices that might be in a HASP definition. By JES2 time, a typical installation might have 80 devices ... so actual slots for defining network nodes might be on the order of 170 or less. Most of the internal network was VNET rather than JES2/HASP ... with JES2/HASP somewhat relagated to perifrial ... frequently with specially constructed VNET nodes between them and the rest of the network so any JES2/HASP network header information could be sanitized (both in-coming and out-going) ... aka effectively the base VNET code had the equivalent of gateway support in every node ... and that capability could be used to "clean" JES2/HASP network headers. The problem was that JES2/HASP network headers tended to be version and release specific. In a large network, with lots of different JES2/HASP nodes at different verstion and release levels resulted in numerous instances of JES2/HASP receiving systems taking down the whole computer complex. After several instances of that, it became very common to always have JES2/HASP nodes hidden behind VNET nodes which would make sure all incoming and outgoing JES2/HASP header information was reformated to avoid system crashes. The internal VNET implementation was supposedly never going to be announced and released ... but there was some internal politiking that eventually resulted in a decision for a joint VNET/JES2 networking announcement and availability (of course VNET had to have a full suite of JES2 drivers ... in addition to its own native drivers). Leading into that was long arguments with the JES2 group about needing support for greater than 170 or so nodes ... but the corporate decision was that the internal network would be the only network that would ever have more than that many nodes ... and so it wasn't needed for a product distributed to customers. Note however, by the time of VNET/JES2 networking customer availability, the internal network was well over 255 nodes (and lack of greater than 255 nodes support had serious impacts on internal network operations, estimated that just internal incremental costs for mitigating JES2 node-limit restriction was well in excess of the development costs to have supported greater than 255 nodes). Eventually the decision was made to expand JES2 support to 999 nodes. Hhowever by the time the general availability of 999 node support, the internal network was in excess of 1000 nodes. internet network 1000th node ref http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#112 OS/360 names and error codes http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#110 OS/360 names and error codes random internal network refs http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#31 High Speed Data Transport (HSDT) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#7 Who built the Internet? (was: Linux/AXP.. Reliable?) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#2 IBM 1130 (was Re: IBM 7090--used for business or science?) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#26 IA64 Self Virtualizable? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#16 S/360 operating systems geneaology http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#56 Earliest memories of "Adventure" & "Trek" http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#7 IBM S/360 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#33 why is there an "@" key? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#34 why is there an "@" key? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#38c Internet and/or ARPANET? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#52 Enter fonts (was Re: Unix case-sensitivity: how did it originate? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#83 "Adventure" (early '80s) who wrote it? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#109 OS/360 names and error codes (was: Humorous and/or Interesting Opcodes) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#110 OS/360 names and error codes (was: Humorous and/or Interesting Opcodes) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#113 OS/360 names and error codes (was: Humorous and/or Interesting Opcodes) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#126 Dispute about Internet's origins http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#212 GEOPLEX http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#3 Computer of the century http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#29 20th March 2000 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#67 oddly portable machines http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#72 Microsoft boss warns breakup could worsen virus problem http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#30 internal corporate network, misc. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#46 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#60 Disincentives for MVS & future of MVS systems programmers http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#30 Secure Operating Systems http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#43 Al Gore: Inventing the Internet... http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#13 internet preceeds Gore in office. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#14 internet preceeds Gore in office. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#15 internet preceeds Gore in office. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#20 Is Al Gore The Father of the Internet?^ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#30 Is Tim Berners-Lee the inventor of the web? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#14 IBM's mess (was: Re: What the hell is an MSX?) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#17 IBM's mess (was: Re: What the hell is an MSX?) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#24 A question for you old guys -- IBM 1130 information http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#39 Could CDR-coding be on the way back? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#50 Egghead cracked, MS IIS again http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#53 Egghead cracked, MS IIS again http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#4 Sv: First video terminal? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#46 Small IBM shops http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#16 Linux IA-64 interrupts [was Re: Itanium benchmarks ...] http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#71 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#85 what makes a cpu fast http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#4 what makes a cpu fast http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#5 what makes a cpu fast http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#75 CNN reports... http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#12 Blame it all on Microsoft http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#16 Pre ARPAnet email? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#34 Blame it all on Microsoft http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#8 Theo Alkema http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#9 Theo Alkema http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#23 MERT Operating System & Microkernels http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#8 VM: checking some myths. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#9 VM: checking some myths. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#13 VM: checking some myths. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#34 D http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#65 UUCP email http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#7 YKYGOW... http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#32 IBM OS Timeline? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#39 IBM OS Timeline? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#4 I hate Compaq http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#26 Help needed on conversion from VM to OS390 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#28 Title Inflation http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#29 Title Inflation http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#30 Title Inflation http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#35 Military Interest in Supercomputer AI http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#45 OT - Internet Explorer V6.0 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#50 Title Inflation http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#35 Newbie TOPS-10 7.03 question http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#40 Newbie TOPS-10 7.03 question http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#56 E-mail 30 years old this autumn http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#25 mainframe question http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#34 Processor Modes http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#35 Processor Modes http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#45 Processor Modes http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#54 Author seeks help - net in 1981 -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Allodoxaphobia Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C05F539.4740E58F@yahoo.com> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007248004.953122@elaine.furryape.com> Reply-To: If You Reply Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.2 (Linux) Date: 02 Dec 2001 00:47:11 GMT Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.105.232.12 X-Trace: 1007254031 reader0.ash.ops.us.uu.net 24925 63.105.232.12 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!uunet!ash.uu.net!spool0900.news.uu.net!reader0900.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95653 On 1 Dec 2001 23:06:45 GMT, Alan Barclay scribbled: > In article , > Allodoxaphobia wrote: >> >>I thought the calendar repeated every 17 years. >>But, maybe I'm wayyy off, he mumbles, as the thread drifts >>off into new geography... > > Not true regardless of which definition of 'repeated every 17 years' > you mean: <-SNIP-> Yep. As Ron Hunsinger posted in a sister thread: | Except for intervals that cross the century non-leap years (years like | 1900 and 2100 that are multiples of 100 but not of 400), the calandar | repeats every 28 years. | | -Ron Hunsinger Jonesy ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3c065abf$2@news.sierratel.com> <3C068159.BB010060@yahoo.com> Sender: bonomi@newsguy.com From: bonomi@newsguy.com Originator: bonomi@newsguy.com Organization: Robert Bonomi Consulting Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test69 (20 September 1998) Originator: bonomi@news2.bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) Lines: 55 Message-ID: <7hlO7.943$oq3.315426@news.uswest.net> Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 08:05:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.103.248.65 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1007280323 168.103.248.65 (Sun, 02 Dec 2001 02:05:23 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 02:05:23 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95646 In article <3C068159.BB010060@yahoo.com>, CBFalconer wrote: >Walter Rottenkolber wrote: >> >> Eric Smith wrote in message ... >> >"Tracy Nelson" writes: >> >> I think the Hayes Smartmodems came our around this time (I know >> >> my roommate had a Smartmodem 1200 around '83). They were >> >> direct-connect (no acoustic coupling) and were pretty reliable >> >> if you could get an MNP connection (no MNP2/3/4/5/10, just MNP). >> > >> >The Hayes Smartmodem 300 was introduced in 1980 or so, IIRC. It >> >didn't have any error control or compression. A friend pulled the >> >board out of one and built it into his TRS-80 Model III just under >> >the lower disk drive. >> >> IIRC the 300 baud modem was considered high speed as earlier modems >> had variable rates from ?50 baud to something over 110 baud. >> Basically they were for connecting TTY machines together or modem >> programs that emulated them. Most of these were acoustic coupled >> because the phone company made an expensive todo about direct modem >> connects. The early 300 baud modems were usually direct connect but >> you had to get an approved coupler from the phone company. >> Eventually the government had to step in to develop standards for >> modems on POTS, and to loosen the monopoly grip of Ma Bell. >> Otherwise the internet for everyone would still be a dream. > >The interface requirement is still there - it is just filled by >the modem manufacturer themselves. Enter ringer equivalents, and >you can't draw more than about 1 mA in the offhook condition, >etc. There are also restrictions on power density over the band, >to avoid interfering with in-band signalling. Don't know the >details, just that they exist. > >IIRC it was MCI that got their start by winning a suit against Ma >to allow direct connects. Nope. the watershed event was a lawsuit by an answering-machine company. Carterphone, 1968. Prior to that point, *anything* "non-telco-supplied" that connected to the telephone system had to connect through a telco-supplied 'isolation' interface. the organic waste hit the rotary impeller because the telco usually rented (only) that isolation interface for _more_ than they rented =their= complete equipment that performed the entire function (answering- machine, modem, fax, whatever). MCI was the first company to attempt to compete in long-distance service, 1963, with a point-to-point microwave link from St. Louis to Chicago. The FCC application stated the intended use was for "interplant and interoffice" communications.o for a pretty comprehensive history, see the pages at: (*impressive* bibliography/cites/references list) ###### From: Wolfgang Schwanke Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 11:11:58 +0100 Organization: disorganised Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C05F539.4740E58F@yahoo.com> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007248004.953122@elaine.furryape.com> Reply-To: wolfi@snafu.de NNTP-Posting-Host: pd95016f2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 X-No-Archive: yes Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.dtag.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!koepenick.wolfi!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95647 The best answer is probably in the calendar FAQ. http://www.pauahtun.org/CalendarFAQ/cal/node3.html#SECTION00360000000000000000 ========== 2.6 When can I reuse my 1992 calendar? Let us first assume that you are only interested in which dates fall on which days of the week; you are not interested in the dates for Easter and other irregular holidays. Let us further confine ourselves to the years 1901-2099. With these restrictions, the answer is as follows: If year X is a leap year, you can reuse its calendar in year X+28. If year X is the first year after a leap year, you can reuse its calendar in years X+6, X+17, and X+28. If year X is the second year after a leap year, you can reuse its calendar in years X+11, X+17, and X+28. If year X is the third year after a leap year, you can reuse its calendar in years X+11, X+22, and X+28. Note that the expression X+28 occurs in all four items above. So you can always reuse your calendar every 28 years. But if you also want your calendar's indication of Easter and other Christian holidays to be correct, the rules are far too complex to be put to a simple formula. Sometimes calendars can be reused after just six years. For example, the calendars for the years 1981 and 1987 are identical, even when it comes to the date for Easter. But sometimes a very long time can pass before a calendar can be reused; if you happen to have a calendar from 1940, you won't be able to reuse it until the year 5280! ========== -- wolfi@snafu.de | | wolfi@deltatag.de IRC: wolfi|anorak http://www.deltatag.de/~wolfi/ Damit haben Sie kein Glück in der Bundesrepublik Wir tanzen lieber Tango bei zärtlicher Musik ###### From: "GerardS" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 12:13:26 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C05F539.4740E58F@yahoo.com> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007248004.953122@elaine.furryape.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 61 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95680 | Wolfgang Schwanke wrote: | The best answer is probably in the calendar FAQ. | | http://www.pauahtun.org/CalendarFAQ/cal/node3.html#SECTION00360000000000000000 | | ========== | 2.6 When can I reuse my 1992 calendar? | Let us first assume that you are only interested in which dates fall on | which days of the week; you are not interested in the dates for Easter | and other irregular holidays. | | Let us further confine ourselves to the years 1901-2099. | | With these restrictions, the answer is as follows: | | If year X is a leap year, you can reuse its calendar in year X+28. | | If year X is the first year after a leap year, you can reuse its calendar | in years X+6, X+17, and X+28. | | If year X is the second year after a leap year, you can reuse its calendar | in years X+11, X+17, and X+28. | | If year X is the third year after a leap year, you can reuse its calendar | in years X+11, X+22, and X+28. | | Note that the expression X+28 occurs in all four items above. So you can | always reuse your calendar every 28 years. | | But if you also want your calendar's indication of Easter and other | Christian holidays to be correct, the rules are far too complex to be put | to a simple formula. Sometimes calendars can be reused after just six years. | For example, the calendars for the years 1981 and 1987 are identical, even | when it comes to the date for Easter. But sometimes a very long time can | pass before a calendar can be reused; if you happen to have a calendar from | 1940, you won't be able to reuse it until the year 5280! The rule for Easter that my little (REXX) program uses is: YYYY is the four digit year), and '%' means integer divide (5%2=2), and all the temp variables start with an underscore [_], the 3rd arg in the RIGHT function is the fill character: _c=yyyy%100 _n=yyyy-19*(yyyy%19) _k=(_c-17)%25 _i=_c-_c%4-(_c-_k)%3+19*_n+15 _i=_i-30*(_i%30) _i=_i-(_i%28)*(1-(_i%28)*(29%(_i+1))*((21-_n)%11)) _j=yyyy+yyyy%4+_i+2-_c+_c%4 _j=_j-7*(_j%7) _l=_i-_j _m=3+(_l+40)%44 easter=right(_m,2,0)'/'right(_l+28-31*(_m%4),2,0)'/'yyyy It could be expressed as a one-line formula, but that would make it truely unreadable code. =================== Gerard S. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 05 Dec 01 10:54:18 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: <641.739T914T6544243@sky.bus.com> References: <3C0550B1.5B53E67F@ev1.net> <3C05F539.4740E58F@yahoo.com> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> <3C0D5900.19DC2ECF@computer.org> <1b1yia8ox7.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-223.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95831 In article <1b1yia8ox7.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu (Joe Pfeiffer) writes: >Larry Jones wrote: > >> There is no 400 year rule. I would think the 100 year rule would be >> sufficient to screw it up if you went outside 1901 - 2099. > >The 400 year rule is the reason 2000 was a leap year. Actually, one might more accurately say that the 400-year rule is the reason that 1900 and 2100 are not leap years. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. I don't read top-posted messages. If you want me to see your reply, appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Wed, 05 Dec 01 11:00:15 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 31 Message-ID: <9ul5tk$n0h$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com> <3C04A6B4.9F7181FE@gazonk.del> <3C0550B1.5B53E67F@ev1.net> <3C05F539.4740E58F@yahoo.com> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> <3C0D5900.19DC2ECF@computer.org> <1b1yia8ox7.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaEvnIu5LYMHwyAOfliL2WToydbfz5Csq6JzbU4eWChVM/v7zAU88Jf X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Dec 2001 13:02:44 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-51 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95863 In article <1b1yia8ox7.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >Larry Jones wrote: >> >> Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) wrote: >> > >> > Any calendar a multiple of 28-years old is always the same as the current >> > calendar. (Well, within our lifetimes: it falls down if there is a year >> > intervening that is divisible by 100, but not by 400: why do you suppose >> > that the earliest electronic watches used to boast that they incorporated >> > a calendar accurate "right through 2099"?) >> >> There is no 400 year rule. I would think the 100 year rule would be >> sufficient to screw it up if you went outside 1901 - 2099. > >The 400 year rule is the reason 2000 was a leap year. This is something that should be engraved in stone. Believe it or not, there's another Y2K bug out there but I haven't been able to figure out what it is (the guy who has it got very pissed off at me and doesn't seem to want to help). /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Sam Yorko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 12:04:03 -0800 Lines: 7 Message-ID: <3C0D2C33.193C1C45@computer.org> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3c065abf$2@news.sierratel.com> <3C068159.BB010060@yahoo.com> <7hlO7.943$oq3.315426@news.uswest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: symsj01.sj.symbol.com (63.145.233.34) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1007496213 9324409 63.145.233.34 (16 [71567]) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!symsj01.sj.symbol.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95838 bonomi@newsguy.com wrote: > > the organic waste hit the rotary impeller because Shouldn't this be the >solid< organic waste? Sam ###### From: scjones@thor.sdrc.com (Larry Jones) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 4 Dec 2001 22:24:00 GMT Organization: Structural Dynamics Research Corp. Lines: 14 Distribution: world Message-ID: <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com> <3C04A6B4.9F7181FE@gazonk.del> <3C0550B1.5B53E67F@ev1.net> <3C05F539.4740E58F@yahoo.com> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: larry.jones@sdrc.com NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.sdrc.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!den-news-01.qwest.net!newsfeed.fuse.net!sdrc.com!thor.sdrc.com!scjones Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95826 Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) wrote: > > Any calendar a multiple of 28-years old is always the same as the current > calendar. (Well, within our lifetimes: it falls down if there is a year > intervening that is divisible by 100, but not by 400: why do you suppose > that the earliest electronic watches used to boast that they incorporated > a calendar accurate "right through 2099"?) There is no 400 year rule. I would think the 100 year rule would be sufficient to screw it up if you went outside 1901 - 2099. -Larry Jones I obey the letter of the law, if not the spirit. -- Calvin ###### Message-ID: <3C0D4BD8.DD2530FD@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3c065abf$2@news.sierratel.com> <3C068159.BB010060@yahoo.com> <7hlO7.943$oq3.315426@news.uswest.net> <3C0D2C33.193C1C45@computer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:30:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.179.46 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1007505018 12.90.179.46 (Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:30:18 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:30:18 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsmi-eu.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!fu-berlin.de!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95813 Sam Yorko wrote: > > bonomi@newsguy.com wrote: > > > > the organic waste hit the rotary impeller because > > Shouldn't this be the >solid< organic waste? Depends on your current health. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### From: Sam Yorko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 15:15:12 -0800 Lines: 22 Message-ID: <3C0D5900.19DC2ECF@computer.org> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com> <3C04A6B4.9F7181FE@gazonk.del> <3C0550B1.5B53E67F@ev1.net> <3C05F539.4740E58F@yahoo.com> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: symsj01.sj.symbol.com (63.145.233.34) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1007507681 9315283 63.145.233.34 (16 [71567]) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!bnewspeer00.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!symsj01.sj.symbol.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95842 Larry Jones wrote: > > Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) wrote: > > > > Any calendar a multiple of 28-years old is always the same as the current > > calendar. (Well, within our lifetimes: it falls down if there is a year > > intervening that is divisible by 100, but not by 400: why do you suppose > > that the earliest electronic watches used to boast that they incorporated > > a calendar accurate "right through 2099"?) > > There is no 400 year rule. I would think the 100 year rule would be > sufficient to screw it up if you went outside 1901 - 2099. > > -Larry Jones > > I obey the letter of the law, if not the spirit. -- Calvin Sure there is: why do you think 2000 was a leap year, but 1900 wasn't? Great; let's fight this thread all over again.... Sam ###### From: gorilla@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 4 Dec 2001 23:49:42 GMT Organization: Ye 'Ol Disorganized NNTPCache groupie Lines: 19 Message-ID: <1007509782.638073@elaine.furryape.com> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-201.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: gorilla@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) Cache-Post-Path: elaine.furryape.com!unknown@elaine.furryape.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!netnews.com!newsfeed.nyc.globix.net!newsfeed.sjc.globix.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95877 In article <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com>, Larry Jones wrote: >Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) wrote: >> >> Any calendar a multiple of 28-years old is always the same as the current >> calendar. (Well, within our lifetimes: it falls down if there is a year >> intervening that is divisible by 100, but not by 400: why do you suppose >> that the earliest electronic watches used to boast that they incorporated >> a calendar accurate "right through 2099"?) > >There is no 400 year rule. I would think the 100 year rule would be >sufficient to screw it up if you went outside 1901 - 2099. Yes there is. Read the original papal bull for the details. This is why the Catholic countries which immediatly adopted the Gregorian calendar lost 10 days in October 1582, but Protestant countries, which generally changed after 1600 had to loose 11 days. ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 04 Dec 2001 17:56:52 -0700 Organization: New Mexico State University Lines: 19 Message-ID: <1b1yia8ox7.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C025849.3551C5A1@yahoo.com> <3C031BE9.127AA93@gazonk.del> <3C03CA2F.5589C283@yahoo.com> <3C04A6B4.9F7181FE@gazonk.del> <3C0550B1.5B53E67F@ev1.net> <3C05F539.4740E58F@yahoo.com> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> <3C0D5900.19DC2ECF@computer.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 1007513811 12423 128.123.64.113 (5 Dec 2001 00:56:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Dec 2001 00:56:51 GMT User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95847 Larry Jones wrote: > > Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) wrote: > > > > Any calendar a multiple of 28-years old is always the same as the current > > calendar. (Well, within our lifetimes: it falls down if there is a year > > intervening that is divisible by 100, but not by 400: why do you suppose > > that the earliest electronic watches used to boast that they incorporated > > a calendar accurate "right through 2099"?) > > There is no 400 year rule. I would think the 100 year rule would be > sufficient to screw it up if you went outside 1901 - 2099. The 400 year rule is the reason 2000 was a leap year. -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### Message-ID: <3C0DC161.1047E0@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> <1007509782.638073@elaine.furryape.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 04:44:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.127.202.211 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc51 1007527449 204.127.202.211 (Wed, 05 Dec 2001 04:44:09 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 04:44:09 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!wn1feed!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc51.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95903 Alan Barclay wrote: > > In article <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com>, > Larry Jones wrote: > >Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) wrote: > >> > >> Any calendar a multiple of 28-years old is always the same as the current > >> calendar. (Well, within our lifetimes: it falls down if there is a year > >> intervening that is divisible by 100, but not by 400: why do you suppose > >> that the earliest electronic watches used to boast that they incorporated > >> a calendar accurate "right through 2099"?) > > > >There is no 400 year rule. I would think the 100 year rule would be > >sufficient to screw it up if you went outside 1901 - 2099. > > Yes there is. Read the original papal bull for the details. > > This is why the Catholic countries which immediatly adopted the > Gregorian calendar lost 10 days in October 1582, but Protestant > countries, which generally changed after 1600 had to loose > 11 days. > If you look it up, you will find that the *only* thing the Gregorian Calendar added was the 400 year rule. (Besides removing excess days from the calendar.) The Julian Calendar already had all the months and had a leap year *every* four years. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: spam+@orion-com.com (Joe Thompson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 5 Dec 2001 07:47:22 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> <1007509782.638073@elaine.furryape.com> <3C0DC161.1047E0@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 3f.19.55.32 User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.3 (Linux) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!spam+ Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95926 On Wed, 05 Dec 2001 04:44:09 GMT, Charles Richmond wrote: > Alan Barclay wrote: > > > > In article <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com>, > > Larry Jones wrote: > > >Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) wrote: > > >> > > >> Any calendar a multiple of 28-years old is always the same as the current > > >> calendar. (Well, within our lifetimes: it falls down if there is a year > > >> intervening that is divisible by 100, but not by 400: why do you suppose > > >> that the earliest electronic watches used to boast that they incorporated > > >> a calendar accurate "right through 2099"?) > > > > > >There is no 400 year rule. I would think the 100 year rule would be > > >sufficient to screw it up if you went outside 1901 - 2099. > > > > Yes there is. Read the original papal bull for the details. > > > > This is why the Catholic countries which immediatly adopted the > > Gregorian calendar lost 10 days in October 1582, but Protestant > > countries, which generally changed after 1600 had to loose > > 11 days. > > > If you look it up, you will find that the *only* thing the > Gregorian Calendar added was the 400 year rule. (Besides removing > excess days from the calendar.) The Julian Calendar already had > all the months and had a leap year *every* four years. Yes, but there had to be a 100 year rule in there somewhere. Are you saying it was adopted separately from the 4 (Julian) and 400 (Gregorian) year rules? I've heard talk of 1000, 4000, and 10000 year rules, but nothing's been officially adopted so far (and even if it were, it wouldn't make a difference in any of our probable lifetimes). -- Joe -- Joe Thompson | http://www.orion-com.com/~kensey/ spam+@orion-com.com | PGP key: Finger joe-jobs@mindspring.com Yeah, it's crazy, but I just ate a giant pixy stick, and I'm excited because my new computer is coming today. -- Apreche on Slashdot ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 07:53:35 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <1007538815snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> <1007509782.638073@elaine.furryape.com> <3C0DC161.1047E0@ev1.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1007577335 mail2news:7098 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!193.154.160.102.MISMATCH!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newsfeed.kpnqwest.at!news-hub.siol.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95921 In article <3C0DC161.1047E0@ev1.net> richmond@ev1.net "Charles Richmond" writes: > If you look it up, you will find that the *only* thing the > Gregorian Calendar added was the 400 year rule. (Besides removing > excess days from the calendar.) The Julian Calendar already had > all the months and had a leap year *every* four years. Not quite; the bull added the 100 AND 400 year rules. Before that, all years divisible by 4 were leap (barring a few anomalies during and after the lifetime of Julius himself, up to about 20AD); the 100 year rule introduced the concept of skipping the leap year every 25th occurrence, whilst the 400 year rule put it back in again, to give 97 leap years every 400. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: scjones@thor.sdrc.com (Larry Jones) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 5 Dec 2001 18:42:22 GMT Organization: Structural Dynamics Research Corp. Lines: 17 Distribution: world Message-ID: <9ulpqe$9hu@nfs0.sdrc.com> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> <1007509782.638073@elaine.furryape.com> <3C0DC161.1047E0@ev1.net> Reply-To: larry.jones@sdrc.com NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.sdrc.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!den-news-01.qwest.net!newsfeed.fuse.net!sdrc.com!thor.sdrc.com!scjones Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95829 Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) wrote: > > If you look it up, you will find that the *only* thing the > Gregorian Calendar added was the 400 year rule. (Besides removing > excess days from the calendar.) The Julian Calendar already had > all the months and had a leap year *every* four years. No, it added the 100 year rule ("years divisible by 100 aren't leap years unless they're also divisible by 400"). Which is, of course, what the original poster was referring to, only I managed to misread it. So, both the original poster and I were correct, we both said the same thing in different ways, my brain was just too fogged to realize that I was agreeing with him rather than disagreeing. -Larry Jones Mom would be a lot more fun if she was a little more gullible. -- Calvin ###### Message-ID: <3C0EA769.D6248B8C@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> <1007509782.638073@elaine.furryape.com> <3C0DC161.1047E0@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 21:05:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.127.202.216 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc51 1007586337 204.127.202.216 (Wed, 05 Dec 2001 21:05:37 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 21:05:37 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc51.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:95938 Joe Thompson wrote: > > On Wed, 05 Dec 2001 04:44:09 GMT, Charles Richmond wrote: > > > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > > If you look it up, you will find that the *only* thing the > > Gregorian Calendar added was the 400 year rule. (Besides removing > > excess days from the calendar.) The Julian Calendar already had > > all the months and had a leap year *every* four years. > > Yes, but there had to be a 100 year rule in there somewhere. Are you > saying it was adopted separately from the 4 (Julian) and 400 (Gregorian) > year rules? > The "400 year rule" is that double zero years are only leap years if they are divisible by 400. No other rule is necessary. What you call the "100 year rule" is related to how a program would implement the "400 year rule" IMHO. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: "Walter Rottenkolber" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> <1007509782.638073@elaine.furryape.com> <3C0DC161.1047E0@ev1.net> Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 21:30:08 -0800 Lines: 52 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.155.25.42 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.155.25.42 Message-ID: <3c107b29@news.sierratel.com> X-Trace: news.sierratel.com 1007713065 209.155.25.42 (7 Dec 2001 00:17:45 -0800) Organization: news.sierratel.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news.sierratel.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96034 Joe Thompson wrote in message ... >On Wed, 05 Dec 2001 04:44:09 GMT, Charles Richmond wrote: >> Alan Barclay wrote: >> > >> > In article <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com>, >> > Larry Jones wrote: >> > >Brian {Hamilton Kelly} (bhk@dsl.co.uk) wrote: >> > >> >> > >> Any calendar a multiple of 28-years old is always the same as the current >> > >> calendar. (Well, within our lifetimes: it falls down if there is a year >> > >> intervening that is divisible by 100, but not by 400: why do you suppose >> > >> that the earliest electronic watches used to boast that they incorporated >> > >> a calendar accurate "right through 2099"?) >> > > >> > >There is no 400 year rule. I would think the 100 year rule would be >> > >sufficient to screw it up if you went outside 1901 - 2099. >> > >> > Yes there is. Read the original papal bull for the details. >> > >> > This is why the Catholic countries which immediatly adopted the >> > Gregorian calendar lost 10 days in October 1582, but Protestant >> > countries, which generally changed after 1600 had to loose >> > 11 days. >> > >> If you look it up, you will find that the *only* thing the >> Gregorian Calendar added was the 400 year rule. (Besides removing >> excess days from the calendar.) The Julian Calendar already had >> all the months and had a leap year *every* four years. > >Yes, but there had to be a 100 year rule in there somewhere. Are you >saying it was adopted separately from the 4 (Julian) and 400 (Gregorian) >year rules? > >I've heard talk of 1000, 4000, and 10000 year rules, but nothing's been >officially adopted so far (and even if it were, it wouldn't make a >difference in any of our probable lifetimes). -- Joe >-- > Joe Thompson | http://www.orion-com.com/~kensey/ IIRC, about every 7000 years a leap year has to be removed. Since it is 2001, in @5000 years there will be panic when the Y7K bug strikes. Walter Rottenkolber ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 07:52:10 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <1007711530snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> <1007509782.638073@elaine.furryape.com> <3C0DC161.1047E0@ev1.net> <3c107b29@news.sierratel.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 1007731999 mail2news:3435 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 32 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96107 In article <3c107b29@news.sierratel.com> waltjr@sierratel.com "Walter Rottenkolber" writes: > Joe Thompson wrote in message ... > >I've heard talk of 1000, 4000, and 10000 year rules, but nothing's been > >officially adopted so far (and even if it were, it wouldn't make a > >difference in any of our probable lifetimes). -- Joe > > IIRC, about every 7000 years a leap year has to be removed. Since it is > 2001, in @5000 years there will be panic when the Y7K bug strikes. Not so; there IS a discrepancy between the calendar and solar years, but the amount is such that the correct /could/ be made by dropping the leap year in 4000CE. Even better would be to drop that in 3600CE, but that might appear more complicated. So perhaps your Y7K bug would be the SECOND occurrence? The interesting[1] thing is that one could have a SINGLE "exception" rule (to their being a leap year every time the date is divisble by four) and that would be to omit the leap year every 128 years. One would not need an "exception to the exception" to "put it back in" (as happens with the present 400 year rule) and there would be no need for any further correction about two millennia hence. [1] From the viewpoint that 128 is a nice round binary number. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### Message-ID: <3C10D5BA.3C3E8A0@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> <1007509782.638073@elaine.furryape.com> <3C0DC161.1047E0@ev1.net> <3c107b29@news.sierratel.com> <1007711530snz@dsl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 38 Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 14:54:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.181.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1007736883 12.90.181.8 (Fri, 07 Dec 2001 14:54:43 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 14:54:43 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!netnews.com!newsfeed.nyc.globix.net!news.stealth.net!204.127.161.2.MISMATCH!wn2feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96115 Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > > In article <3c107b29@news.sierratel.com> > waltjr@sierratel.com "Walter Rottenkolber" writes: > > > Joe Thompson wrote in message ... > > >I've heard talk of 1000, 4000, and 10000 year rules, but nothing's been > > >officially adopted so far (and even if it were, it wouldn't make a > > >difference in any of our probable lifetimes). -- Joe > > > > IIRC, about every 7000 years a leap year has to be removed. Since it is > > 2001, in @5000 years there will be panic when the Y7K bug strikes. > > Not so; there IS a discrepancy between the calendar and solar years, but > the amount is such that the correct /could/ be made by dropping the leap > year in 4000CE. Even better would be to drop that in 3600CE, but that > might appear more complicated. So perhaps your Y7K bug would be the > SECOND occurrence? > > The interesting[1] thing is that one could have a SINGLE "exception" > rule (to their being a leap year every time the date is divisble by four) > and that would be to omit the leap year every 128 years. One would not > need an "exception to the exception" to "put it back in" (as happens with > the present 400 year rule) and there would be no need for any further > correction about two millennia hence. > > [1] From the viewpoint that 128 is a nice round binary number. isleap = (!(year & 3) && !(year & 0x7f)); would save a few CPU cycles. I predict it won't be adopted. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### Message-ID: <3C11C967.B2722430@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> <1007509782.638073@elaine.furryape.com> <3C0DC161.1047E0@ev1.net> <3c107b29@news.sierratel.com> <1007711530snz@dsl.co.uk> <3C10D5BA.3C3E8A0@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 40 NNTP-Posting-Host: aZhQ7-54560-L51-34748@rwcrnsc54 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc54 1007791649 aZhQ7-54560-L51-34748@rwcrnsc54 (Sat, 08 Dec 2001 06:07:29 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 06:07:29 GMT Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 06:07:29 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc54.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96096 CBFalconer wrote: > > Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > > > > In article <3c107b29@news.sierratel.com> > > waltjr@sierratel.com "Walter Rottenkolber" writes: > > > > > Joe Thompson wrote in message ... > > > >I've heard talk of 1000, 4000, and 10000 year rules, but nothing's been > > > >officially adopted so far (and even if it were, it wouldn't make a > > > >difference in any of our probable lifetimes). -- Joe > > > > > > IIRC, about every 7000 years a leap year has to be removed. Since it is > > > 2001, in @5000 years there will be panic when the Y7K bug strikes. > > > > Not so; there IS a discrepancy between the calendar and solar years, but > > the amount is such that the correct /could/ be made by dropping the leap > > year in 4000CE. Even better would be to drop that in 3600CE, but that > > might appear more complicated. So perhaps your Y7K bug would be the > > SECOND occurrence? > > > > The interesting[1] thing is that one could have a SINGLE "exception" > > rule (to their being a leap year every time the date is divisble by four) > > and that would be to omit the leap year every 128 years. One would not > > need an "exception to the exception" to "put it back in" (as happens with > > the present 400 year rule) and there would be no need for any further > > correction about two millennia hence. > > > > [1] From the viewpoint that 128 is a nice round binary number. > > isleap = (!(year & 3) && !(year & 0x7f)); > > would save a few CPU cycles. I predict it won't be adopted. > Hey, hey, heyyyyy!!!!! Who do you guys think you are...the Pope??? -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 09:03:10 -0700 Organization: Systematic Software Lines: 46 Message-ID: <5i861u0qqle0ubm38m5vs1hb98l38v6766@4ax.com> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C0884E1.6234C601@ev1.net> <1007339292snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ujie0$gmb@nfs0.sdrc.com> <1007509782.638073@elaine.furryape.com> <3C0DC161.1047E0@ev1.net> <3c107b29@news.sierratel.com> <1007711530snz@dsl.co.uk> <3C10D5BA.3C3E8A0@yahoo.com> Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: h-207-148-132-164.dial.cadvision.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.cadvision.com 1007913790 25155 207.148.132.164 (9 Dec 2001 16:03:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cadvision.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 16:03:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!hekyl.ab.tac.net!nntp.cadvision.com!207.228.64.17.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96153 On Fri, 07 Dec 2001 14:54:43 GMT, CBFalconer wrote: >Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: >> >> In article <3c107b29@news.sierratel.com> >> waltjr@sierratel.com "Walter Rottenkolber" writes: >> >> > Joe Thompson wrote in message ... >> > >I've heard talk of 1000, 4000, and 10000 year rules, but nothing's been >> > >officially adopted so far (and even if it were, it wouldn't make a >> > >difference in any of our probable lifetimes). -- Joe >> > >> > IIRC, about every 7000 years a leap year has to be removed. Since it is >> > 2001, in @5000 years there will be panic when the Y7K bug strikes. >> >> Not so; there IS a discrepancy between the calendar and solar years, but >> the amount is such that the correct /could/ be made by dropping the leap >> year in 4000CE. Even better would be to drop that in 3600CE, but that >> might appear more complicated. So perhaps your Y7K bug would be the >> SECOND occurrence? >> >> The interesting[1] thing is that one could have a SINGLE "exception" >> rule (to their being a leap year every time the date is divisble by four) >> and that would be to omit the leap year every 128 years. One would not >> need an "exception to the exception" to "put it back in" (as happens with >> the present 400 year rule) and there would be no need for any further >> correction about two millennia hence. >> >> [1] From the viewpoint that 128 is a nice round binary number. > > isleap = (!(year & 3) && !(year & 0x7f)); > >would save a few CPU cycles. I predict it won't be adopted. ISTR that the Eastern Orthodox church updated their leap year rules fairly recently in a literally and metaphorically Byzantine manner and pushed the necessity for correction out to where even Danny Hillis(?) need not worry. Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov spam traps ###### From: Thomas Dzubin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:08:57 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Vancouver Community Network Lines: 28 Message-ID: <9v86fp$sbv$1@luna.vcn.bc.ca> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <3C01E09E.3050004@beagle-ears.com> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <9u3l1a$60u$1@luna.vcn.bc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: vcn.bc.ca X-Trace: luna.vcn.bc.ca 1008180537 29055 207.102.64.2 (12 Dec 2001 18:08:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@vcn.bc.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:08:57 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: tin/1.4.5-20010409 ("One More Nightmare") (UNIX) (SunOS/5.8 (sun4u)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!nntp.itservices.ubc.ca!news.vcn.bc.ca!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:96436 (December 2001) Now that google / dejanews has more complete Usenet archives on-line I don't have to type in anything! Just do a www.deja.com search on "Usenet logical map" by Bill & Karen Shannon Lot's of hits and good reading! Thomas Dzubin Thomas Dzubin wrote: > I've got an old Usenet map also from about six months later (I think) > December 1981. > that has about 50 more links. (I was on ihnp4!sask at the time) > ...trouble is, it's saved in non-"e" form (paper) > ...I guess I should really spend some time and type it in, post it > and have www.dejanews.com hang onto it for the collective good. > Thomas Dzubin > Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >> Well, even Usenet was up and running. Here's the map of the net around >> that time (and I was reading via the "teklabs" link)... > ... >> USENET Logical Map >> June 1, 1981 >> !- Uucp links >> : Berknet links >> @ Arpanet links > ###### From: John Alvord Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 01:29:50 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> <1006892588snz@dsl.co.uk> <9u3olc02tb1@enews3.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.553 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 81 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!sn-xit-03!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97804 On 28 Nov 2001 22:32:12 GMT, mwojcik@newsguy.com (Michael Wojcik) wrote: > >In article <1006892588snz@dsl.co.uk>, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) writes: >> In article <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> >> Juha.Laiho@iki.fi "Juha Laiho" writes: >> >> > John Alvord said: >> > >Wasn't December 1981 when the XMAS "virus" washed over BITNET and the >> > >IBM internel mail network? >> > >> > I recall that happening a lot later -- '88, I'd claim (got my univ. >> > account on that year and hadn't been online in the big networks >> > before that). >> >> Are you not thinking of the Morris Worm? > >I don't know what Juha is thinking of, but John's clearly referring to >the IBM XMAS email trojan. Kate Orman in another post dates that as >December 1987, which sounds right to me; I started at IBM in January >1988, and IIRC I wasn't around for the trojan itself but I heard about >it as a recent event. > >> I believe the appearance of the word "virus" in quotes is an indication >> that it wasn't actually a computer virus at all, but perhaps something >> more akin to the sort of e-mail/Usenet virus that goes around the world >> in seconds following a hoax "virus alert" > >No, it was a bona fide trojan. It was a VM/CMS EXEC (again IIRC) that >was emailed around IBM. When run it displayed a nice Christmas tree >picture using EBCDIC character graphics (on a 3270 or emulator). It >also emailed itself to everyone in your personal address list, in much >the manner that some Outlook trojans do today. Bogged the internal >network down something fierce. Right, December 1987. I was working at IBM Research and got an email from John Hartman in IBM Denmark, which alterted his friends as to what was happening. I remember seeing an analysis report a few months later. The author was identified as a German student who had learned REXX a few months prior. It was transformed (minor) once and then moved through EARN and then BITNET fairly rapidly. A few examples popped into the IBM internal network. As a trojan, it had a fairly low response rate, but since it sent copies to all the addresses in your PROFS database, the few that did response sent a lot onward. I remember thinking it was a psychological virus... since it came from a previous correspondent he receive was more likely to run it. The secretary to IBM's President sent a copy to all IBM managers... that really sped things up. At the time, IBM used a central core of VM machines, using RSCS as a store and forward email processor. The communication machines began to get full spool conditions and shutdown. Pretty soon, the operators cut off communications. Someone wrote a patch to RSCS which automatically erased any transmitted files with the attached XMAS rexx exec. That was passed around quickly and conditions were back to normal in a few days. I remember hearing the public annoucement about the situation in the Yorktown Research building that morning. There were some crashes with rapidly changing spool conditions, as was observed with the "delete XMAS" patch was installed. There were some cases where wrong files were transmitted "by accident"... a race condition where some process got a spool id and then kept using it even though the file was deleted and then used for another purpose. That was a defect in RSCS (or VM) which had been corrected some 6-8 months prior. Some 5-10% of IBM internal machines had not installed that maintenance. People worried a lot about secret memoes going to the wrong person but there was no evidence of anything but misdirected boring memoes. One of the few actual fallouts was some process on the BITNET/Internal gateway which transformed attached executibles so you would have to do some editting before running an attached programming. I left IBM a few months later, after I was told my programming career was over and Apple offered a 45% salary increase to do some programming. john alvord ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 30 Dec 2001 14:51:30 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> <1006892588snz@dsl.co.uk> <9u3olc02tb1@enews3.newsguy.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1009723890 12787 134.117.136.30 (30 Dec 2001 14:51:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Dec 2001 14:51:30 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97800 John Alvord (jalvo@mbay.net) writes: > ... > I left IBM a few months later, after I was told my programming career > was over and Apple offered a 45% salary increase to do some > programming. Are you insinuating that there were MfMs at IBM too? I thought they were clustered at Alphatext, Alcan KRC, Loeb and Geoterrex. (That's Morons for Managers.) ###### From: greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 19:53:22 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Rossum's Universal Robots Lines: 17 Message-ID: <3c3bb8b4.45675192@news.btopenworld.com> References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> <1006892588snz@dsl.co.uk> <9u3olc02tb1@enews3.newsguy.com> Reply-To: greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-7-94-53.btinternet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: paris.btinternet.com 1009828402 4030 62.7.94.53 (31 Dec 2001 19:53:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@paris.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 19:53:22 +0000 (UTC) X-No-Archive: yes X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!skynet.be!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97839 On 30 Dec 2001 14:51:30 GMT, ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) sprachen: > Are you insinuating that there were MfMs at IBM too? I thought they > were clustered at Alphatext, Who? >Alcan KRC, Loeb and Geoterrex. Who, who and who? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ if love is a drug, then, ideally, it's a healing, healthful drug... it's kind of like prozac is supposed to work (without the sexual side effects and long-term damage to the brain and psyche) ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Author seeks help - net in 1981 Date: 31 Dec 2001 20:55:29 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <3C01D968.8422E8A7@start.com.au> <1006767009.663565@dns2.serv.net> <9u0f3i$93e$1@ichaos.ichaos-int> <1006892588snz@dsl.co.uk> <9u3olc02tb1@enews3.newsguy.com> <3c3bb8b4.45675192@news.btopenworld.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 1009832129 7638 134.117.136.30 (31 Dec 2001 20:55:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Dec 2001 20:55:29 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:97835 (greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk) writes: >> were clustered at Alphatext, > > Who? > >>Alcan KRC, Loeb and Geoterrex. > > Who, who and who? PPOE, in eastern Ontario. One and three defunct, four renamed.