From: "John Lynn" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: When did full-screen come to VM/370? Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 06:32:54 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Reply-To: "John Lynn" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:94355 Anyone know when the pieces came to support the creation of "full-screen" 3270 programs on VM/370? I know about diag 58, but I'm not sure when it came into vogue totally; and wasn't there another way of doing full-screen programs before diag 58? Thanks for any pointers... ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: When did full-screen come to VM/370? References: Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 62 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:59:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.211.242.42 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1005667163 63.211.242.42 (Tue, 13 Nov 2001 07:59:23 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 07:59:23 PST X-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 07:55:20 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:94325 "John Lynn" writes: > Anyone know when the pieces came to support the creation of "full-screen" > 3270 programs on VM/370? I know about diag 58, but I'm not sure when it came > into vogue totally; and wasn't there another way of doing full-screen > programs before diag 58? Thanks for any pointers... as an undergraduate ... the university I was at had a channel attach 2250m1 (graphics display). I had taken a cms 2250 library from lincoln labs and interface the cms editor to produce somewhat full-screen operation (for output only). This would have been about mid-68. For the 3270 ... I'm not positive ... but I think that the first was the edgar editor that was specifically 3270, had full-screen layout and full-screen "input" (i.e. before that there was simulated fullscreen output with writing multiple lines to fill the screen ... but no provisions for "real" full-screen read ... the whole screen could be used for input, and during "editing" text displayed anywhere on the screen could be modified/replaced). Edgar also had portion of each display line (during edit) reserved for meta commands (i.e. when enter was hit ... each line that had a "d" in the corresponding meta-area would be deleted). However, edgar also started the scroll up/down wars. It had a convention that scroll-down moved the display "cursor" (position in the file) towards the beginning of the file i.e. reference point was from the stand-point of the program that would move a scroll of text downward past a window (which moved the cursor/reference towards the beginning of the file). The counter argument was that implementing a "human" reference point (as opposed to a program's reference) ... with regard to scroll up/down would be with respect to what the person that was up/down aka rather than the text being scrolled up/down past the window ... the window would "move" up/down in the file with respect to the human orientation. The standard CMS editor then got incrementally enhanced with respect to full-screen capability ... and various other editors appeared NED, RED, and eventually XEDIT. The disquishing characteristics after EDGAR wasn't so much in their full-screen characteristics but in their macro & scripting features which got more & more sophisticated. random refs: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#2 Schedulers http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#4a John Hartmann's Birthday Party http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#2 IBM 1130 (was Re: IBM 7090--used for business or science?) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#9 HELP! Chronology of word-processing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#41 A word processor from 1960 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#109 OS/360 names and error codes (was: Humorous and/or Interesting Opcodes) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#20 How many Megaflops and when? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#63 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#12 Now early Arpanet security http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#14 IBM's announcement on RVAs http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#71 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#57 any 70's era supercomputers that ran as slow as today's supercomputers? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#1 History of Microsoft Word (and wordprocessing in general) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#17 History of Microsoft Word (and wordprocessing in general) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#44 3270 protocol -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: When did full-screen come to VM/370? References: Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.4 (Linux) Lines: 18 Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 03:16:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.33.222.2 X-Complaints-To: abuse@coretel.net X-Trace: news.abs.net 1005707812 162.33.222.2 (Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:16:52 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:16:52 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!news.abs.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:94272 On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:59:23 GMT, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: >For the 3270 ... I'm not positive ... but I think that the first was >the edgar editor that was specifically 3270, had full-screen layout >and full-screen "input" (i.e. before that there was simulated >fullscreen output with writing multiple lines to fill the screen >... but no provisions for "real" full-screen read ... the whole screen >could be used for input, and during "editing" text displayed anywhere >on the screen could be modified/replaced). Edgar also had portion of >each display line (during edit) reserved for meta commands (i.e. when >enter was hit ... each line that had a "d" in the corresponding >meta-area would be deleted). This appears to have happened at the BSEPP release...in stock r6, diag 58 didn't support the full range of 3270 features. The Hercules VM/370 folks are working on a full-screen editor, as EDIT is kinda limiting... There was, supposedly, another editor out there that used a DIALed terminal some way or other to allow the full range of 3270 CCWs to be sent to the device without VM getting in the way.