From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: death of copy protectio [was: So it's cyclical.] Date: 9 Nov 2001 17:55:10 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 31 Message-ID: <9sh59u$rr0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <9s4l59$obq$1@freenet9.carleton.ca><9sghhn$ukk$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <4kSG7.13382$mh1.1778311@news1.cableinet.net> <9sgsbb$36h$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:94109 In article <9sgsbb$36h$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>, Paul Grayson wrote: >Tomahawk from Digital Integrations and an Amstrad paint program also used >it. Then software companies saw sense. It wasn't so much seeing sense that killed copy protection, as I recall, but Mac World's campaign. Mac World loudly, strongly, and repetitively urged readers not to buy copy protected software or software using key disks. If memory serves, busines software pretty much gave up within about six months. I'm still furious that the Master of Orion I have insists on, late in the game, identification of a ship from a certain page. Aside from being unreasonable, my wife threw out the manual with the newspapers. And this is a game I tend to play in airports and on airplanes, not at home. You have to remember to save fairly often to avoid this, and give the game a three-finger salute if your first two tries are wrong, which throws you back a few moves to the last auto save. IOW, with the CD I purchased, I can't use the game properly due to a half-witted and ineffective attempt to thwart piracy. Am I likely to *ever* buy an MPS game again? hawk -- What part of "non-negotiable" didn't you understand? /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings. Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: "Roger Johnstone" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: death of copy protectio [was: So it's cyclical.] Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:09:27 +1300 Organization: ihug ( New Zealand ) Lines: 42 Message-ID: <9skfke$mqf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> References: <9s4l59$obq$1@freenet9.carleton.ca><9sghhn$ukk$1@newsreaderg1.c ore.theplanet.net> <4kSG7.13382$mh1.1778311@news1.cableinet.net> <9sgsbb$36h$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <9sh59u$rr0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: p62-max2.inv.ihug.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: lust.ihug.co.nz 1005437391 23375 203.173.222.254 (11 Nov 2001 00:09:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@ihug.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 00:09:51 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!lust.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:94194 In article <9sh59u$rr0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: > It wasn't so much seeing sense that killed copy protection, as I recall, > but Mac World's campaign. Mac World loudly, strongly, and repetitively > urged readers not to buy copy protected software or software using key > disks. If memory serves, busines software pretty much gave up within > about six months. > > I'm still furious that the Master of Orion I have insists on, late in > the game, identification of a ship from a certain page. Aside from > being unreasonable, my wife threw out the manual with the newspapers. > And this is a game I tend to play in airports and on airplanes, not at > home. You have to remember to save fairly often to avoid this, and give > the game a three-finger salute if your first two tries are wrong, which > throws you back a few moves to the last auto save. > > IOW, with the CD I purchased, I can't use the game properly due to a > half-witted and ineffective attempt to thwart piracy. Am I likely to > *ever* buy an MPS game again? > > hawk I bought a game on floppy disk, about 7 years ago, which included a colour code wheel. I had the thing for months before I discovered by accident that the code wasn't needed, you could select any result and the game would proceed. This was not a cracked copy, the game had been bought directly from the publisher, but at some point they must have decided to remove the code protection, they just forgot to tell anyone! -- Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand Apple II - Future Cop:LAPD - iMac Voodoo2 - Warcraft II http://homepage.mac.com/rojaws ______________________________________________________________________ from the Red Dwarf III episode "The Last Day" Kryten: But you would not profit by it. You would gamble your safety for a mere android? Is this the human value you call - friendship? Lister: Don't give me that Star Trek crap, it's too early in the morning. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: death of copy protectio [was: So it's cyclical.] Date: 11 Nov 2001 21:27:32 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 27 Message-ID: <6ur8r5dpe3.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <9s4l59$obq$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <9sghhn$ukk$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <4kSG7.13382$mh1.1778311@news1.cableinet.net> <9sgsbb$36h$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <9sh59u$rr0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9skfke$mqf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1005510453 1045 10.0.3.2 (11 Nov 2001 20:27:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Nov 2001 20:27:33 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:94218 "Roger Johnstone" writes: > In article <9sh59u$rr0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. > Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: > > > I'm still furious that the Master of Orion I have insists on, late in > > the game, identification of a ship from a certain page. Aside from > > I bought a game on floppy disk, about 7 years ago, which included a colour > code wheel. I had the thing for months before I discovered by accident that > the code wasn't needed, you could select any result and the game would > proceed. This was not a cracked copy, the game had been bought directly from > the publisher, but at some point they must have decided to remove the code > protection, they just forgot to tell anyone! Or the suits wanted copy protection/prevention and the programmer was opposed to it (because its anti-user or because it reduces spreading of his work), so he "errornously" got the test wrong so it always ran. Particularly with next-to-non-existant quality control he had a good chance of that shipping. And enough users will find it out to spread it. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### From: "Paul Grayson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: death of copy protectio [was: So it's cyclical.] Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:02:04 -0000 Organization: Customer of Energis Squared Lines: 23 Message-ID: <9sodns$j5p$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> References: <9s4l59$obq$1@freenet9.carleton.ca><9sghhn$ukk$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <4kSG7.13382$mh1.1778311@news1.cableinet.net> <9sgsbb$36h$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <9sh59u$rr0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: host94.bjss.co.uk X-Trace: newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net 1005566524 19641 194.152.80.94 (12 Nov 2001 12:02:04 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Nov 2001 12:02:04 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!gatel-ffm!isdnet!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:94223 "Prof. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote in message news:9sh59u$rr0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu... > In article <9sgsbb$36h$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>, > Paul Grayson wrote: > > >Tomahawk from Digital Integrations and an Amstrad paint program also used > >it. Then software companies saw sense. > > It wasn't so much seeing sense that killed copy protection, as I recall, > but Mac World's campaign. Mac World loudly, strongly, and repetitively > urged readers not to buy copy protected software or software using key > disks. If memory serves, busines software pretty much gave up within > about six months. I remember one long departed UK PC magazine (whose name escapes me) having a simillar policy. They used to have a section that reviewed the various new releases, and give the software marks out of ten. Any software had a protection mechanism that required a phone call being made to the manufacturers during installation would generally get a mark of 1 out of 10, with the reviewer not being able to install the software. ###### From: "Paul Grayson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: death of copy protectio [was: So it's cyclical.] Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:13:10 -0000 Organization: Customer of Energis Squared Lines: 33 Message-ID: <9soecn$jan$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> References: <9s4l59$obq$1@freenet9.carleton.ca><9sghhn$ukk$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <4kSG7.13382$mh1.1778311@news1.cableinet.net> <9sgsbb$36h$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <9sh59u$rr0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: host94.bjss.co.uk X-Trace: newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net 1005567191 19799 194.152.80.94 (12 Nov 2001 12:13:11 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Nov 2001 12:13:11 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!skynet.be!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:94224 "Prof. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote in message news:9sh59u$rr0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu... > I'm still furious that the Master of Orion I have insists on, late in > the game, identification of a ship from a certain page. Aside from > being unreasonable, my wife threw out the manual with the newspapers. > And this is a game I tend to play in airports and on airplanes, not at > home. You have to remember to save fairly often to avoid this, and give > the game a three-finger salute if your first two tries are wrong, which > throws you back a few moves to the last auto save. Quoting text from random parts of the manual are a common protection mechanism. Always so bloody annoying, as often the manual is full of pointless rubbish which has nothing to do with the game. Sierra used to do this all the time; they'd add some additional booklets to the box, and one of the puzzles would be dependant upon some infomation contain within one, often generated at random. This could occurr anywhere during the game. Then there was the protection with one of the LSL games that also asked questions that those over 21 should only know the answer to. Unfortunatly these were very much USA based, so those outside the US, or those playing a re-issue, where also locked out. > IOW, with the CD I purchased, I can't use the game properly due to a > half-witted and ineffective attempt to thwart piracy. Am I likely to > *ever* buy an MPS game again? I don't think I've bought a PC game for a year now. It wasn't the anti-piracy measures, it was all the jumping through hoops to get the latest DirectX nonsense to work with the current hardware. ###### From: Ben Clifford MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Hogwasher/2.6.1 (Macintosh) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <01HW.B815BFB20014D2A10EE55190@news.verizon.net> Subject: Re: death of copy protectio [was: So it's cyclical.] Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <9s4l59$obq$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <9sghhn$ukk$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <4kSG7.13382$mh1.1778311@news1.cableinet.net> <9sgsbb$36h$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <9sh59u$rr0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9skfke$mqf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <6ur8r5dpe3.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Lines: 35 X-Trace: /bNDC2tVgDOhiEDkWYqRfLjBQrKKYBgTFlwMCdTTyg5XNk8ld0dTrr/GxkBUTBqJ40TeYQikZIuU!JLxd/4zacroTP+ntjcujFrFdp9378wbf++ymqQiOVkM46I0o6oGg31IgoALtoiyKo8nvL+Uy1UoT!rVietbmRngGq X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 02:04:42 GMT Distribution: world Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 02:04:42 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!paloalto-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:94361 On Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:27:32 -0800, Neil Franklin wrote (in message <6ur8r5dpe3.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>): >> I bought a game on floppy disk, about 7 years ago, which included a colour >> code wheel. I had the thing for months before I discovered by accident that >> the code wasn't needed, you could select any result and the game would >> proceed. This was not a cracked copy, the game had been bought directly >> from >> the publisher, but at some point they must have decided to remove the code >> protection, they just forgot to tell anyone! > > Or the suits wanted copy protection/prevention and the programmer was > opposed to it (because its anti-user or because it reduces spreading > of his work), so he "errornously" got the test wrong so it always ran. > > Particularly with next-to-non-existant quality control he had a good > chance of that shipping. And enough users will find it out to spread it. It would passed the QC testing 100%: 100% of the time you entered the right code, it permitted you to play the game. ;-) Ben -- Ben Clifford http://www.hawaga.org.uk/ben/ I am looking for a job in Los Angeles - http://www.hawaga.org.uk/resume/ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: death of copy protectio [was: So it's cyclical.] References: <9s4l59$obq$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <9sh59u$rr0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9soecn$jan$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <7+s+FriMSI87EABj@QADAS.com> Organization: Plethora . Net - More Net, Less Spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Originator: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Date: 13 Nov 2001 04:36:14 GMT Lines: 30 Message-ID: <3bf0a33e$0$79560$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 2745257b.news.plethora.net X-Trace: 1005626174 gemini.plethora.net 79560 seebs@205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!gemini.plethora.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:94360 In article <7+s+FriMSI87EABj@QADAS.com>, Jonathan Griffitts wrote: >A good friend of mine referred to this sort of thing as "buying two >games in one". One of those games was of course the one advertised on >the box. Or at least, some subset of it. ;) >I've played both those sorts of games plenty of times over the years, >but the copy protection game is often disappointingly weak, and falls >over within 20 minutes or so. It makes me wonder about the true >motivations of the people who program the copy protection. Apparently, the issues are these: 1. Many stores order fewer or no copies of games without at least some copy protection. 2. Possibly independant of that, copy protection appears to have substantial impact on sales. The theory is that the vast bulk of pirated copies are just people buying a game, liking it, and "lending" the CD to a family member - while still playing it. If the game requires the CD, you can't do that easily, so people tend to just go ahead and buy another copy. -s -- Copyright 2001, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net $ chmod a+x /bin/laden Please do not feed or harbor the terrorists. C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Consulting, computers, web hosting, and shell access: http://www.plethora.net/ ###### From: "Walter Rottenkolber" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <9s4l59$obq$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <9sh59u$rr0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9soecn$jan$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <7+s+FriMSI87EABj@QADAS.com> <3bf0a33e$0$79560$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> Subject: Re: death of copy protectio [was: So it's cyclical.] Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:46:29 -0800 Lines: 39 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.155.25.24 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.155.25.24 Message-ID: <3bf2253b@news.sierratel.com> X-Trace: news.sierratel.com 1005724987 209.155.25.24 (14 Nov 2001 00:03:07 -0800) Organization: news.sierratel.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!usenetserver.com!208.184.7.66!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news.sierratel.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:94306 Peter Seebach wrote in message <3bf0a33e$0$79560$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net>... >In article <7+s+FriMSI87EABj@QADAS.com>, >Jonathan Griffitts wrote: >>A good friend of mine referred to this sort of thing as "buying two >>games in one". One of those games was of course the one advertised on >>the box. > >Or at least, some subset of it. ;) > >>I've played both those sorts of games plenty of times over the years, >>but the copy protection game is often disappointingly weak, and falls >>over within 20 minutes or so. It makes me wonder about the true >>motivations of the people who program the copy protection. > >Apparently, the issues are these: >1. Many stores order fewer or no copies of games without at least some >copy protection. >2. Possibly independant of that, copy protection appears to have substantial >impact on sales. > >The theory is that the vast bulk of pirated copies are just people buying >a game, liking it, and "lending" the CD to a family member - while still >playing it. If the game requires the CD, you can't do that easily, so people >tend to just go ahead and buy another copy. > >-s >-- Well, the copy protection the MSoft put on WinXP has been cracked and piracy is rampant in Thailand and China. On way was to copy the OEM versions and put the secret password on the package. Walter Rottenkolber