From: "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:38:20 -0400
Organization: The Ocean State Free-Net
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The Retro-Computing Society of RI is proud to announce the acquisition
and preservation of a DECsystem-1090

Originally installed in May 1985 it was primarily used as a real-time
system for helicopter simulation.


KL10-DA s/n 1456 with:
	extended addressing
	internal channels
	cache
	NIA20
MH10-LA
MH10-LA
MH10-LA
MH10-LA
MH10-LA
MH10-LA
DC20-CD
DN20-MC
DN20-MC
DN25-EC & DN25-DA         
RP06-BA
RP06-BA
RP06-AA
RP07-BA
LP26-EB
DN200-MA
MTA010

Images are available at the RCS "works in progress" website:
http://starfish.rcsri.org/rcs/DECsystem/1090/

It was in use through May 1994. At that time it was de-installed by
Digital and "certified" operational, in case they needed to power it up
again.  Since that time it has been stored in a climate controlled, HEPA
filtered machine room.  It passes the proverbial white glove test.

We would like to thank Sikorsky Aircraft Corp, a United Technologies
company, for this donation.

We will transport it to Rhode Island next week.

-mikeu
Michael Umbricht

The Retro-Computing Society of RI
http://www.osfn.org/rcs/

######

From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 01 07:33:28 GMT
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In article <3B7C27E3.7B1DEF47@osfn.org>,
   "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org> wrote:

<snip>

>It could have rolled off the assembly line yesterday.  The mind boggles.

With a little bit of luck, you may be able to run an SMP 
system with that other 2060 you have.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

######

From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 01 07:18:23 GMT
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In article <qh8zgijgrm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
   Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> wrote:
>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote about the RCS DECsystem-1090
>> With a little bit of luck, you may be able to run an SMP 
>> system with that other 2060 you have.
<snip>

>On some KL10s it was possible to run both "internal" and KI memory,
>though I've seen conflicting information about whether this was
>officially supported.

<snip>

We did it in-house.  We had two 1090s and one 2060.  The 2060
was the third CPU and, at times, was configured to be run 
stand-alone when we needed another TOPS-10 system.  When the
2060 was running as a third CPU, it used the external memory
and the internal memory just sat there doing nothing.  I don't
know how the hardware was wired so I can't help you there.
But it is possible.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

######

Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090
References: <3B7B07EC.1E8405A8@osfn.org>
From: sy18889@COYOTE.FMR.COM (Bradford J. Hamilton)
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Hi Michael,

Awesome!  Reminds me of younger days as a Computer Operator at Tufts University!

Thanks for the pics.

--Brad

>In article <3B7B07EC.1E8405A8@osfn.org>, "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org> writes:
>The Retro-Computing Society of RI is proud to announce the acquisition
>and preservation of a DECsystem-1090
>
>Originally installed in May 1985 it was primarily used as a real-time
>system for helicopter simulation.
>
>
>KL10-DA s/n 1456 with:
>	extended addressing
>	internal channels
>	cache
>	NIA20
>MH10-LA
>MH10-LA
>MH10-LA
>MH10-LA
>MH10-LA
>MH10-LA
>DC20-CD
>DN20-MC
>DN20-MC
>DN25-EC & DN25-DA         
>RP06-BA
>RP06-BA
>RP06-AA
>RP07-BA
>LP26-EB
>DN200-MA
>MTA010
>
>Images are available at the RCS "works in progress" website:
>http://starfish.rcsri.org/rcs/DECsystem/1090/
>
>It was in use through May 1994. At that time it was de-installed by
>Digital and "certified" operational, in case they needed to power it up
>again.  Since that time it has been stored in a climate controlled, HEPA
>filtered machine room.  It passes the proverbial white glove test.
>
>We would like to thank Sikorsky Aircraft Corp, a United Technologies
>company, for this donation.
>
>We will transport it to Rhode Island next week.
>
>-mikeu
>Michael Umbricht
>
>The Retro-Computing Society of RI
>http://www.osfn.org/rcs/

Bradford J. Hamilton
bradhamilton@mediaone.net	(home)
brad.hamilton@fmr.com		(work)

"All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"

######

From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
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In alt.sys.pdp10 Michael L. Umbricht <mikeu@osfn.org> wrote:
> It was in use through May 1994. At that time it was de-installed by
> Digital and "certified" operational, in case they needed to power it up
> again.  Since that time it has been stored in a climate controlled, HEPA
> filtered machine room.  It passes the proverbial white glove test.

Based on the pictures, it looks like you're not kidding about the white
glove test!  That's got the be the cleanest looking PDP I've ever seen!

			Zane

######

From: "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:06:59 -0400
Organization: The Ocean State Free-Net
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"Zane H. Healy" wrote:
> 
> In alt.sys.pdp10 Michael L. Umbricht <mikeu@osfn.org> wrote:
> > It was in use through May 1994. At that time it was de-installed by
> > Digital and "certified" operational, in case they needed to power it up
> > again.  Since that time it has been stored in a climate controlled, HEPA
> > filtered machine room.  It passes the proverbial white glove test.
> 
> Based on the pictures, it looks like you're not kidding about the white
> glove test!  That's got the be the cleanest looking PDP I've ever seen!

Actually, I was not referring to the _outside_ of the cabs, but to the
air-intake on the cooling fans!

In the RCS archive we have sales brochures with glossy pics of
DECsystems on a pseudo "showroom floor."  I never imagined that in this
millenium I would find myself standing face-to-face with a machine in
just such a condition.

It could have rolled off the assembly line yesterday.  The mind boggles.

-mikeu
Michael Umbricht

The Retro-Computing Society of RI
http://www.osfn.org/rcs/

######

Message-ID: <3B7C9232.C6E179BF@home.com>
From: Brian Huntley <bphuntley@home.com>
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>

Okay,  what I want to know is, are all those ponytails real and '01?

 -- Brian "cut my hair for a US trip" Huntley

######

From: "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:00:51 -0400
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Brian Huntley wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> Okay,  what I want to know is, are all those ponytails real and '01?
> 
>  -- Brian "cut my hair for a US trip" Huntley


"PROVIDENCE - RCS/RI announces project to preserve retro-hackers...  film at 11"


-mikeu
Michael Umbricht

The Retro-Computing Society of RI
http://www.osfn.org/rcs/

######

From: Arthur Krewat <krewat@bartek.dontspamme.net>
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"Michael L. Umbricht" wrote:
> 
> It could have rolled off the assembly line yesterday.  The mind boggles.
> 

I suspect there are more of these around somewhere, especially gov't.
Anyone have a KL/KS customer list? :)

aak

######

From: "Geoffrey G. Rochat" <geoff.nospam@nospam.pkworks.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
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>
>Okay,  what I want to know is, are all those ponytails real and '01?
>
> -- Brian "cut my hair for a US trip" Huntley
>

Regrettably, I was unable to attend the session enshrined in the
pictures but, oh yeah, that's what those guys look like, even now.  The
"Fleetwood Mac look" will never die so long as these guys are around.

    - An RCS/RI member who favors button-down Oxford shirts

######

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jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote about the RCS DECsystem-1090
> With a little bit of luck, you may be able to run an SMP 
> system with that other 2060 you have.

Not easily, because 2060s do not have a DMA20 to interface to
external memory.  The 2060 only supported internal memory, which
is single-ported.

To interface to the external multiport memory, it would be necessary to
build the equivalent of the DMA20, and to replace the X-bus translators
in the CPU cage with S-bus translators.  The X-bus and the S-bus are
essentially the same memory bus from a logical point of view, but have
different electrical characteristics.  The DMA20 is the interface between
the S-bus and the KI memory bus.

On a 1090, the backplanes in the I/O cabinet (not the front end cabinet)
are wired for:

     8 RH20 Massbus channels
     4 DTE20 PDP-11 interfaces (one used for the KL's internal 11/40 FE)
     1 DIA20 I/O bus interface
     1 DMA20 memory bus interface

The S-bus and C-bus cables are wired from the CPU cabinet to the I/O
cabinet.  The KI memory bus and I/O bus cables come out of that cabinet.

On the 2060 and 2065 the DIB20 I/O bus interface was optional, but there
are no slots or wiring for the DMA20 boards.  The C-bus cable goes from
the CPU to the I/O cabinet, but the X-bus cables go from the CPU to a
chain of "internal" memory boxes: MA20 or MB20 core, or MF20 or MG20
semiconductor.

On some KL10s it was possible to run both "internal" and KI memory,
though I've seen conflicting information about whether this was
officially supported.

In theory it might be possible to build a multiport multiplexer for
the X-bus, to allow two or more KL10s to be configured for SMP using
"internal" memory, but it would be challenging because of timing
requirements.

######

From: budd@csa.bu.edu (Phil Budne)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090
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In article <qh8zgijgrm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Eric Smith  <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> wrote:
>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote about the RCS DECsystem-1090
>> With a little bit of luck, you may be able to run an SMP 
>> system with that other 2060 you have.
>
>Not easily, because 2060s do not have a DMA20 to interface to
>external memory.  The 2060 only supported internal memory, which
>is single-ported.
>
.....
>On some KL10s it was possible to run both "internal" and KI memory,
>though I've seen conflicting information about whether this was
>officially supported.

I remember in MR1-2 there was an orange system which was normally
operated seperately (on internal memory) that was used to test Tri-SMP
configurations in consort with 1026/1042.

I think it may have been 2136, in which case it was a 2060T (ARPAnet
configuration, which included the KI I/O Bus for the AN10 connection
to the IMP).

######

Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com
From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090
References: <3B7B07EC.1E8405A8@osfn.org> <3B7C27E3.7B1DEF47@osfn.org> <9lir16$mic$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <qh8zgijgrm.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <9lkmgu$a0m$1@news3.bu.edu>
Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs
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I wrote:
> Not easily, because 2060s do not have a DMA20 to interface to
> external memory.  The 2060 only supported internal memory, which
> is single-ported.

budd@csa.bu.edu (Phil Budne) writes:
> I remember in MR1-2 there was an orange system which was normally
> operated seperately (on internal memory) that was used to test Tri-SMP
> configurations in consort with 1026/1042.
> 
> I think it may have been 2136, in which case it was a 2060T (ARPAnet
> configuration, which included the KI I/O Bus for the AN10 connection
> to the IMP).

The KL10-A (1080) and KL10-B (1090) have a DIA20 KI I/O bus interface and
DMA20 KI memory bus interface as standard features.
The KL10-E (2060, 2065) optionally support the DIB20 KI I/O bus interface;
the KL10-C (2040, 2050) does not.

The prints for the KL10-C (2040/2050) and KL10-E (1091/1095/2060/2065)
do not show any provision for a DMA20 KI memory interface.  If such a
thing had officially existed, it probably would have been called a
DMB20, by analogy to the DIA20 and DIB20.

It is, of course, entirely possible that a DMA20 could have been kludged
onto a 2060.  This would have required cabling up the right half of a
1090 I/O cabinet backplane; the 2060 I/O cabinet backplane does not have
the necessary eleven hex slots for the DMA20.

######

From: "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090 (update)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:15:14 -0400
Organization: The Ocean State Free-Net
Message-ID: <3B851E02.D572832B@osfn.org>
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:6545 alt.folklore.computers:88189

Here is an updated inventory of the DECsystem-1090.  Diffs are marked
with a "*"

KL10-DA
MH10-H*
MH10-LA
MH10-LA
MH10-LA
MH10-LA
MH10-LA
DN20-MC
DN20-MC/DN21-JA*
DN25-EC
DC20-CD
DN200-MA
DTR01-AC*
RP06-AA
RP06-BA
RP06-BA
RP07-BA
TU78-AB*
LP26-EB
LA120-DA*


-mikeu
Michael Umbricht

The Retro-Computing Society of RI
http://www.osfn.org/rcs/

######

From: Lawrence H Greenwald <lgreenwa@cts.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090 (update)
References: <3B7B07EC.1E8405A8@osfn.org> <3B851E02.D572832B@osfn.org>
User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC)
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:6551 alt.folklore.computers:88384

In article <3B851E02.D572832B@osfn.org>,
 "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org> wrote:

>Here is an updated inventory of the DECsystem-1090.  Diffs are marked
>with a "*"
>
>KL10-DA
>MH10-H*
>MH10-LA
>MH10-LA
>MH10-LA
>MH10-LA
>MH10-LA
>DN20-MC
>DN20-MC/DN21-JA*
>DN25-EC
>DC20-CD
>DN200-MA
>DTR01-AC*
>RP06-AA
>RP06-BA
>RP06-BA
>RP07-BA
>TU78-AB*
>LP26-EB
>LA120-DA*
>
>
>-mikeu
>Michael Umbricht
>
>The Retro-Computing Society of RI
>http://www.osfn.org/rcs/

OK, once it's up and running, what are you going to use it for?
--LG

-- 
reply to - lgreenwa at cts dot com
"I'm looking over a three-leaf clover that I overlooked be-three!"  --Bugs Bunny

######

From: "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090 (update)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 01:01:38 -0400
Organization: The Ocean State Free-Net
Message-ID: <3B873132.A0B19E12@osfn.org>
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:6553 alt.folklore.computers:88403

Lawrence H Greenwald wrote:
> 
> In article <3B851E02.D572832B@osfn.org>,
>  "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org> wrote:
> 
> >Here is an updated inventory of the DECsystem-1090.  Diffs are marked
> 
> OK, once it's up and running, what are you going to use it for?

RCS/RI is essentially a "working museum" of historically important
computers.  Our mission is to preserve these systems for posterity and
maintain them in operable condition.  However, once a system is restored
it would not be run 24/7.  

For instance, we do not have the (financial) means to power-up a
DECsystem-10 for an extended period of time.  Even a minimal
configuration would draw 25-30 KW, which works out to about $100 / 24
hours for electricity.  This is not small change, esp. for a non-proft. 
That does not even include the cost of air conditioning to remove the
85,000 BTU/HR of heat that such a system would generate.

But, we do power the machines in our collection up frequently, for
instance to verify that an emulator is "bug-compatible" with the actual
hardware or to read media and archive the data.  We recently
demonstrated a Univac 1701 punching cards, a pdp-12 playing spacewar and
a Symbolics 3640 running Genera for visitors to the Vintage Computer
Festival / East.  Every month we display different examples of what we
are restoring for visitors to our facility.

-mikeu
Michael Umbricht

The Retro-Computing Society of RI
http://www.osfn.org/rcs/

######

From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090 (update)
Date: 25 Aug 2001 10:42:28 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88306

"Michael L. Umbricht" (mikeu@osfn.org) writes:
>
... 
> For instance, we do not have the (financial) means to power-up a
> DECsystem-10 for an extended period of time.  Even a minimal
> configuration would draw 25-30 KW, which works out to about $100 / 24
> hours for electricity.  This is not small change, esp. for a non-proft. 
> That does not even include the cost of air conditioning to remove the
> 85,000 BTU/HR of heat that such a system would generate.
...
   Let's talk about January.

######

From: "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:05:33 -0400
Organization: The Ocean State Free-Net
Message-ID: <3B87B0AD.B57EEDB8@osfn.org>
Reply-To: mikeu@shrimp.osfn.org
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.8 sun4m)
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:6563 alt.folklore.computers:88521

Brian Huntley wrote:
> 
> Okay,  what I want to know is, are all those ponytails real and '01?
> 
>  -- Brian "cut my hair for a US trip" Huntley

http://starfish.rcsri.org/rcs/DECsystem/1090/images/raw/21-AUG-2001/RIMG0016.JPG

http://starfish.rcsri.org/rcs/DECsystem/1090/images/raw/21-AUG-2001/RIMG0027.JPG

[Note: The pics in images/raw/*/ are 1/4 - 3/4 MB ea.  We have not had
time to process them.]

-mikeu
Michael Umbricht

The Retro-Computing Society of RI
http://www.osfn.org/rcs/

######

Message-ID: <3B87AFA3.94EB09A5@jetnet.ab.ca>
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:6556 alt.folklore.computers:88419

"Michael L. Umbricht" wrote:

> RCS/RI is essentially a "working museum" of historically important
> computers.  Our mission is to preserve these systems for posterity and
> maintain them in operable condition.  However, once a system is restored
> it would not be run 24/7.
> 
> For instance, we do not have the (financial) means to power-up a
> DECsystem-10 for an extended period of time.  Even a minimal
> configuration would draw 25-30 KW, which works out to about $100 / 24
> hours for electricity.  This is not small change, esp. for a non-proft.
> That does not even include the cost of air conditioning to remove the
> 85,000 BTU/HR of heat that such a system would generate.
>

I guess a real system needs the same free hours as other old machines
used by students learning the hardware. Book in advance for Weekends 1am to 4am.
1 hour limit.
Ben. 
-- 
Standard Disclaimer : 97% speculation 2% bad grammar 1% facts.
"Pre-historic Cpu's" http://www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk
Now with schematics.

######

From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 01 07:59:13 GMT
Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc.
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:6568 alt.folklore.computers:88757

In article <3B8C41F9.E24704F6@rcsri.org>,
   "Carl R. Friend" <carl.friend@rcsri.org> wrote:
>Brian Huntley wrote:
>>
>> Okay,  what I want to know is, are all those ponytails real and '01?
>>
>>  -- Brian "cut my hair for a US trip" Huntley
>
>   I, as a director of RCS/RI, and one of the blokes appearing in the
>pictures, can assure you that the ponytails are real.  Actually, mine
>is real - Mike Umbricht wears his hair "down".  The other chap in the
>photos tries to straddle the line between "radio geeks" and "computer
>geeks", the former of which "have no hair" and the latter who "have a
>lot of hair".

I'll have to say that I got a lot more comfortable when I saw
all those pony tails when I visited your place :-).  It almost
seemed like home again (the Mill).  Even the ambiance of your
place brings back memories of the Mill.  Although it's not
a maze with twisty little passages all alike.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

######

From: "Carl R. Friend" <carl.friend@rcsri.org>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:14:33 -0400
Organization: As little as possible!
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:6567 alt.folklore.computers:88712

Brian Huntley wrote:
>
> Okay,  what I want to know is, are all those ponytails real and '01?
>
>  -- Brian "cut my hair for a US trip" Huntley

   I, as a director of RCS/RI, and one of the blokes appearing in the
pictures, can assure you that the ponytails are real.  Actually, mine
is real - Mike Umbricht wears his hair "down".  The other chap in the
photos tries to straddle the line between "radio geeks" and "computer
geeks", the former of which "have no hair" and the latter who "have a
lot of hair".

   Cheers.

-- 
+------------------------------------------------+---------------------+
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin)            | West Boylston       |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast            | Massachusetts, USA  |
| mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com                +---------------------+
| http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum       | ICBM: 42:22N 71:47W |
+------------------------------------------------+---------------------+

P.S.  To the chap making the "Fleetwood Mac" remark - you're as much
of a knob as the rest of us!

######

From: "Carl R. Friend" <carl.friend@rcsri.org>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090 (update)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:16:47 -0400
Organization: As little as possible!
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88715

"Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote:
> 
> "Michael L. Umbricht" (mikeu@osfn.org) writes:
> >
> ...
> > For instance, we do not have the (financial) means to power-up a
> > DECsystem-10 for an extended period of time.  Even a minimal
> > configuration would draw 25-30 KW, which works out to about
> > $100 / 24 hours for electricity.  This is not small change, esp.
> > for a non-proft.  That does not even include the cost of air
> > conditioning to remove the 85,000 BTU/HR of heat that such a
> > system would generate.
> ...
>    Let's talk about January.

   I suspect the outside air would be a tad on the humid side for the
(cooled) machine to work properly.  While the KL10 in RCS/RI's
posession would have the BTU capacity to heat a large section of the
mill it's housed in, doing so would in all liklihood damage the
machine, which is something we do not intend to do.

   Yes, I remember the humidification process for computer rooms being,
quite literally, a steam jet spouting off "ahead" of the chillers, but
I suspect that zero-degree (Celsius) air at near 100% humidity would
have deletorious effects on the hardware.

   New England stin^W sucks in the winter.


-- 
+------------------------------------------------+---------------------+
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin)            | West Boylston       |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast            | Massachusetts, USA  |
| mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com                +---------------------+
| http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum       | ICBM: 42:22N 71:47W |
+------------------------------------------------+---------------------+

######

From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090 (update)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 04:05:50 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <9mhpmu$itg$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>
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Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff)
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88834

"Carl R. Friend" (carl.friend@rcsri.org) writes:
> 
>    I suspect the outside air would be a tad on the humid side for the
> (cooled) machine to work properly.  While the KL10 in RCS/RI's
> posession would have the BTU capacity to heat a large section of the
> mill it's housed in, doing so would in all liklihood damage the
> machine, which is something we do not intend to do.

  So now, (in preparation for Jan.-Apr.) we'd be talking heat exchangers.
  
  I should swing by when I visit my sister in Pepperil.

######

From: never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090 (update)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 16:00:10 GMT
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In article <3B8C508F.347EAFFD@rcsri.org>,
Carl R. Friend <carl.friend@rcsri.org> wrote:
>"Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote:
>> 
>> "Michael L. Umbricht" (mikeu@osfn.org) writes:
>> >
>> ...
>> > For instance, we do not have the (financial) means to power-up a
>> > DECsystem-10 for an extended period of time.  Even a minimal
>> > configuration would draw 25-30 KW, which works out to about
>> > $100 / 24 hours for electricity.  This is not small change, esp.
>> > for a non-proft.  That does not even include the cost of air
>> > conditioning to remove the 85,000 BTU/HR of heat that such a
>> > system would generate.
>> ...
>>    Let's talk about January.
>
>   I suspect the outside air would be a tad on the humid side for the
>(cooled) machine to work properly.  While the KL10 in RCS/RI's
>posession would have the BTU capacity to heat a large section of the
>mill it's housed in, doing so would in all liklihood damage the
>machine, which is something we do not intend to do.
>
>   Yes, I remember the humidification process for computer rooms being,
>quite literally, a steam jet spouting off "ahead" of the chillers, but
>I suspect that zero-degree (Celsius) air at near 100% humidity would
>have deletorious effects on the hardware.

There's not that much water in the air at 0C. Once the room gets up to about
20C (68F) the humidity will be way down (I don't remember the formula.)
The air will be able to hold more water at that temperature, the
humidity will drop and you'll have to set up the kettle.
-- 
%% (fortunes)
Harvard Law:
	Under the most rigorously controlled conditions of pressure,
temperature, volume, humidity, and other variables, the organism will

######

From: never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090 (update)
Date: 29 Aug 2001 16:47:44 GMT
Organization: A small notepad underneath my in box
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In article <9mj3ia$n27$1@news.panix.com>,
Michael Roach <never+mail@panics.com.invalid> wrote:
>-- 
>%% (fortunes)
>Harvard Law:
>	Under the most rigorously controlled conditions of pressure,
>temperature, volume, humidity, and other variables, the organism will

Oops, I should know better than to force a fortune without checking
first!

The correct quote should have been:

Harvard Law:
        Under the most rigorously controlled conditions of pressure,
temperature, volume, humidity, and other variables, the organism will
do as it damn well pleases.


-- 
Kleptomaniac, n.:
	A rich thief.
		-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

######

From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 01 07:28:45 GMT
Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc.
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In article <8a1964a6.0108301826.7e307044@posting.google.com>,
   aw288@osfn.org (William Donzelli) wrote:
>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in message news:<9mih50$gh6$1@bob.news.rcn.net>...
>
>> I'll have to say that I got a lot more comfortable when I saw
>> all those pony tails when I visited your place :-).  It almost
>> seemed like home again (the Mill).  Even the ambiance of your
>> place brings back memories of the Mill.  Although it's not
>> a maze with twisty little passages all alike.
>
>Next time, we will show you the lower floors of the Mill. Bring boots
>and a flashlight.

<grin>  Will I need an anti-web net for my hair?

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

######

From: aw288@osfn.org (William Donzelli)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090
Date: 30 Aug 2001 19:26:53 -0700
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jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in message news:<9mih50$gh6$1@bob.news.rcn.net>...

> I'll have to say that I got a lot more comfortable when I saw
> all those pony tails when I visited your place :-).  It almost
> seemed like home again (the Mill).  Even the ambiance of your
> place brings back memories of the Mill.  Although it's not
> a maze with twisty little passages all alike.

Next time, we will show you the lower floors of the Mill. Bring boots
and a flashlight.

William Donzelli

######

From: "Carl R. Friend" <carl.friend@rcsri.org>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090 (update)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:41:55 -0400
Organization: As little as possible!
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88942

Michael Roach wrote:
> 
> The correct quote should have been:
> 
> Harvard Law:
>         Under the most rigorously controlled conditions of pressure,
> temperature, volume, humidity, and other variables, the organism will
> do as it damn well pleases.

   Actually, leaving the problem as a "fill-in-the-blank" would have
probably garnered the proper number of "do as it damn well pleases"
responses to validate the quote.  I certainly had no doubt about the
matter....

-- 
+------------------------------------------------+---------------------+
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin)            | West Boylston       |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast            | Massachusetts, USA  |
| mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com                +---------------------+
| http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum       | ICBM: 42:22N 71:47W |
+------------------------------------------------+---------------------+

######

From: "Carl R. Friend" <carl.friend@rcsri.org>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090 (update)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:47:38 -0400
Organization: As little as possible!
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88943

"Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote:
> 
>   So now, (in preparation for Jan.-Apr.) we'd be talking heat
> exchangers [to cool a big PDP-10 using outside air].

   In all liklihood, yes.  I would not be terribly comfortable feeding
0 degree air at 100 percent humidity (the norm for New England in
winter) directly to the underside of a running computer.

>   I should swing by when I visit my sister in Pepperil.

   Do stop by if you get a chance!  RCS/RI holds a monthly "open house"
on the third Saturday of each month.  The theme varies from month to
month, but the entire collection is always on view.  Directions may
be had from their web site at http://www.osfn.org/rcs/directions.html

-- 
+------------------------------------------------+---------------------+
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin)            | West Boylston       |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast            | Massachusetts, USA  |
| mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com                +---------------------+
| http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum       | ICBM: 42:22N 71:47W |
+------------------------------------------------+---------------------+

######

From: ftit@red.engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090 (update)
Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89034

In article <3B8DA94A.EAF25E61@rcsri.org>,
Carl R. Friend <carl.friend@rcsri.org> wrote:
>"Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote:
>>   So now, (in preparation for Jan.-Apr.) we'd be talking heat
>> exchangers [to cool a big PDP-10 using outside air].
>
>   In all liklihood, yes.  I would not be terribly comfortable feeding
>0 degree air at 100 percent humidity (the norm for New England in
>winter) directly to the underside of a running computer.

But it's only 100% humidity at 0-deg.  At higher temperatures the air
can hold more water vapor.  When you bring in outside air and warm it
up, it will still contain the same absolute amount of water, but now
this will be far below the air's capacity.  This is why the air inside
buildings is often uncomfortably dry during the winter.

-- 
Sergej Roytman

######

From: "Carl R. Friend" <carl.friend@rcsri.org>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: RCS acquires DECsystem-1090 (update)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:59:08 -0400
Organization: As little as possible!
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Message-ID: <3B8EEF6C.255AF0B5@rcsri.org>
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88944

Sergej Roytman wrote:
> 
> But [the outside air is] only 100% humidity at 0-deg.  At higher
> temperatures the air can hold more water vapor.  When you bring in
> outside air and warm it up, it will still contain the same absolute
> amount of water, but now this will be far below the air's capacity.

   That's completely correct, but I still quiver at the notion of
applying it directly to the "heating element" (a -10) without warming
it a bit first.

> This is why the air inside buildings is often uncomfortably dry
> during the winter.

   True.  Besides, with the airflow we might need for an all-up running
-10, it might wind up sucking in some snow.... <grin>

-- 
+------------------------------------------------+---------------------+
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin)            | West Boylston       |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast            | Massachusetts, USA  |
| mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com                +---------------------+
| http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum       | ICBM: 42:22N 71:47W |
+------------------------------------------------+---------------------+