From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: 10 Aug 2001 12:53:43 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 72 Message-ID: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997448023 21526 128.29.251.13 (10 Aug 2001 12:53:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Aug 2001 12:53:43 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86948 Next Sunday is the 20th anniversary of the introduction of the original IBM Personal Computer. Some comments for our newer readers... The original model had 16 KB (that's *kilo*bytes) of memory soldered onto the system board, with sockets for another 48 KB. CPU was an Intel 8088 running at 4.77 MHz, and the BIOS chip included what IBM called "Cassette BASIC". The base system had a built-in I/O controller only for the keyboard (included with the system) and a cassette recorder (user-supplied) that you could plug into 5-pin DIN connector on the back; everything else required extra-cost adapter cards (five sockets total). The "typical" configuration included the full 64 KB of memory (often with additional memory on a plug-in card), the monochrome display adapter (MDA), and a floppy drive controller with two, 160-KB 5-1/4" (single-side, double-density) floppy drives. IBM's monochrome display was quite good and many users bought one. The Color Graphics Adapter (CGA) was available but there was no IBM color display. The CGA included an NTSC output that could be connected into a modulator to drive a standard color TV, but IBM chose not to offer a modulator, probably to avoid the inevitable problems with RF interference complaints. Mice were in the future; probably the model that brought mice into common use was the gray-and-green Microsoft busmouse which became available a few years later. Construction of the box was done to IBM's usual battleship-grade standards. Ditto for the keyboard, which was almost universally praised as having excellent characteristics for touch-typers. The original keyboard had only ten function keys (on the left side in two columns of five); the only CTRL and ALT keys were on the left and CAPS LOCK was below the right-hand SHIFT key. That year the summer SHARE meeting was in Chicago; I recall being it a session a day or so after the introduction when the IBMer passed around several of the keyboards for the attendees to examine. Everyone was impressed. (Side note: SHARE was, and still is, the user group for large IBM scientific and educational customers.) Documentation arrived in looseleaf binders in rigid slipcases. For $100 or so you could buy the Technical Reference Manual which included full schematics and a slightly out-of-date BIOS assembly listing. As part of its advertising for the PC IBM produced a poster showing four users doing different things. There were several spelling errors on the poster; the one I remember was the one showing a student taking a test (early CAI) and giving the correct answer; the screen shows that the program described the response as "EXCELLANT!". I don't recall anyone making jokes about the literal translation of the name of the city where the PC work was being done (Boca Raton). And the original PC I bought later that year is still sitting in my basement, and last time I turned it on (admittedly many years ago) it still worked. Oh yes, price. IIRC a system with: - Base unit - Extra 48 KB system board memory - Expansion memory card with 512 KB installed - MDA - Monochrome display - Floppy drive controller - Two, 160 KB floppy drives - printer adapter - Epson 7-pin dot matrix printer cost ~$5000. Joe Morris ###### From: lwinson@bbs.cpcn.com (lwin) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: 10 Aug 2001 16:33:33 GMT Organization: The PACSIBM SIG BBS Lines: 87 Message-ID: <9l12ct$f27@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bbs.cpcn.com Originator: root@bbs.cpcn.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!netaxs.newsread.com!bbs.cpcn.com!root Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87032 x-no-archive: yes > Next Sunday is the 20th anniversary of the introduction of the original > IBM Personal Computer. Which set off a revolution in the computing field. Many people look at the growth of computers in terms of _technology_ advances. While technology is important, marketing and support are just as important. The greatest technology is useless if the end user can't make good use of it. Putting the IBM label on the machine gave it legitmacy in the business world. People gripe that the IBM PC was actually obsolete given more advanced chip options available, but the key issue was adaptability to a broad range of users. (Remember, the original Univac mainframe had slightly superior memory technology to IBM's first mainframe (701), but IBM provided better and support and customer procedure integration and IBM quickly pulled ahead of Univac.) IBM did not sell the PC as something cute nor innovative. It sold it to do things. For example, our IBM salesman sold us an early bare-bones PC to do communications protocol conversion cheaply. IBM encouraged 3rd parties to develop hardware and software add-ons to increase the usefulness of the PC. This of course was a great idea. Unfortuntely, the open architecture allowed others to later compete against IBM. In using the original PC has a word processor, I found it to be too slow and cumbersome to be of much value. Adding a hard drive instead of sticking with floppies helped a lot; but it wasn't until the 286 came out with 24 pin printers that I felt I had something useful. Also, the original PCs were so expensive that they were often not used as "personal", but rather shared among a group of people. This made personalizing settings for convenience or specific tasks more difficult. > IBM's monochrome display > was quite good and many users bought one. I much preferred the monochrome monitor over CGA. I hated CGA--it was way too fuzzy for me. I refused to use it until VGA came out. > Ditto for the keyboard, which was almost universally > praised as having excellent characteristics for touch-typers. I personally thought the IBM PC keyboard was horrible. To me, it felt nothing like the standard-setter of typewriter keyboards--the IBM Selectric. At the time of introduction, cassette players were used as tape storage devices. I have no idea how efficient or reliable they were in storing files, but the tape machines themselves were standard cheap audio tape recorders easily obtained for $30. given that cheapness, I assumed they'd be very popular but they died out quickly. One of the novelties of the new PC for us old time mainframe application programmers was that we could do anything we wanted with it. On the mainframe, the system configuration is tightly locked up (as it should be) by the systems programmers. But on the PC, you can easily write a simple BASIC program to POKE and PEEK all sorts of things into control fields of the machine and do anything you want. Indeed, that's how many people made lots of money selling add-on utilities, from defaulting the num-lock light to off to restoring deleted files. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: 10 Aug 2001 22:26:30 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 85 Message-ID: <6usnezveyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <9l12ct$f27@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 997475190 416 10.0.3.2 (10 Aug 2001 20:26:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Aug 2001 20:26:30 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87039 lwinson@bbs.cpcn.com (lwin) writes: > Also, the original PCs were so expensive that they were often > not used as "personal", but rather shared among a group of people. > This made personalizing settings for convenience or specific > tasks more difficult. Personalisation: every user has his own set of floppies, own software installation, own settings. Totally personal. > > IBM's monochrome display > > was quite good and many users bought one. > > I much preferred the monochrome monitor over CGA. I hated > CGA--it was way too fuzzy for me. I refused to use it until > VGA came out. EGA was entirely usable. Its 640x350 was already near MDAs 720x350, compared with CGA 320/640x200. > > Ditto for the keyboard, which was almost universally > > praised as having excellent characteristics for touch-typers. > > I personally thought the IBM PC keyboard was horrible. To > me, it felt nothing like the standard-setter of typewriter > keyboards--the IBM Selectric. And compared with todays trash it was still heavenly. I am typing this on an MF-II (late PC/AT) keyboard. > At the time of introduction, cassette players were used as > tape storage devices. I have no idea how efficient or > reliable they were in storing files, Slow (<1kbit/s) and very unreliable. That is why BASIC had an verify command (that is: load, but compare with already loaded instead of overwrite, so one does not load a broken tape destroying the still complete program that could be saved a second time). Floppies were a godsend. Even 170k connected via an slow serial cable (Commodore C64 + 1541). And PC/AT 360/1.2M, wow! > themselves were standard cheap audio tape recorders > easily obtained for $30. given that cheapness, I assumed > they'd be very popular but they died out quickly. Not surprisingly. Thanks to whoever made floppies affordable. > One of the novelties of the new PC for us old time mainframe > application programmers was that we could do anything we > wanted with it. On the mainframe, the system configuration is > tightly locked up (as it should be) by the systems programmers. As it needs to be ... for an monolithic system like MVS or VMS or Unix or NT. (And yes, I work as Unix admin :-)) At least with VM it would have been possible to give power users (only those who wanted it) PC-like flexibility, assuming an powerfull enough terminal (with local install/backup/transfer medium). See IBMs present VM/LPAR+Linux attack on the rackspace type server hosting market, everyone their VM/LPAR, without needing an own wastive processor+disk, and with full hardware redundancy thrown in. That this did not happen in the 1970s, was purely the central admin staff mentality that got in the way. > But on the PC, you can easily write a simple BASIC program to > POKE and PEEK all sorts of things into control fields of the > machine and do anything you want And that was the true PC revolution, getting around admin dependancy. Partially lost with LANs/workstations. Reappearing with notebooks. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:04:31 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <997470271snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 997487261 mail2news:11103 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.highwayone.net!shale.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87402 In article <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> jcmorris@mitre.org "Joe Morris" writes: > Next Sunday is the 20th anniversary of the introduction of the original > IBM Personal Computer. Some comments for our newer readers... Yes, and earlier today I got a notification through the usual channels from IBM (what they used to call Software Alert) that they are doing a special promotion, with twenty prizes each day for twenty days. Go to for a chance to enter; I tried to enter this myself, only to find that it's restricted to "legal residents of the United States". [Fx: Mutter, mutter: Bastards, bastards, bastards] -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> Organization: Me, Myself and I X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) From: mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) Originator: mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) Message-ID: <3i94l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no> Lines: 160 Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 03:15:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.71.26.5 X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@Norway.EU.net X-Trace: nreader1.kpnqwest.net 997586158 193.71.26.5 (Sun, 12 Aug 2001 05:15:58 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 05:15:58 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!134.222.94.5!npeer.kpnqwest.net!nreader1.kpnqwest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87274 In article <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org>, Joe Morris wrote: >Next Sunday is the 20th anniversary of the introduction of the original >IBM Personal Computer. Some comments for our newer readers... Let me follow up with some comments from the very early age of PCs. OK, this shows my age, but here we go. I was a teaching and research assistant in college at the time. The pay was lousy to non-existent, but we got to play with some fun tools (like TOPS20 and microcomputers like Apple ]['s, Commodore PETs etc); as long as the tools supported research or teaching in some useful fashion. This was not hard to do, as professors were eager to get competent help to run their computer models for them. The computer models in question were FORTRAN-based mostly, and there was a great demand for FORTRAN systems on the micros. The implementations usually were less than functional; mostly because of the very limited RAM in micros, and complete absence of FORTRAN tools on microcomputers. Then sometime in early september 1981 i got a request from a Professor about evaluating this new computer that he had sales promises about finally a goot FORTRAN implementation. Said Professor had heard sales pitches before; and got a sample machine on loan for one week, to evaluate. I got the box in my tiny office to review. I remember PC-DOS (1.0) was very different from anything else. It only superficially resembled CP/M; nor did it look like anything on PDP11s, micros or indeed big iron. There was some influence from TOPS20, but nothing of the elegance in design. The machine had 512+16 megabytes of memory; more than in any single floppy. And a floating point coprocessor. It was fed 110V via a transformer; the 220V power supply wasn't released yet. It must have been one of the first 10 IBM PC's in Norway. The PC was officially not launched here yet. It ran FORTRAN all right. And it was the same story as with other PC FORTRANs from that era. We attempted a port of one of the simpler models; but it was full of painful lessons. FORTRAN was then not a very well standardized language; with lots of dual/triple standard interactions. The PC tools were full of bugs, and implemented only subsets of the needed language functions; even though they could technically claim to be Fortran-77 compliant; just barely. And a multi-pass compiler loading from floppies from a far-from finished operating system took ages to compile code that was rather small in volume, but rich in mathematics. All of this was very early versions, 1.1 at the very most. It had a very early Kermit though. THAT was a good experience. We very briefly investigated Pascal; found the state somewhat better, but not up to the standards on Apple ][s, We didn't bother to look at other languages, avilability was the issue. We concluded rather unanimously we were too early. We returned the box with a polite thank you; but no, thank you; and went back to the normal tools. It took a rather long time before the PC started making headways with useful stuff; but when it happened it happened rather suddenly. That was around one year later. IBM must have been using quite some clout to have customers take on the PC in that first, critical year. And the PC was quite a slow starter. One odd thing at that time was that the processor speed on the machine was a non-issue. It was only during 1984-85 thet the 4.77 Mhz almost-totally-not-pipelined 8-bitter wasn't fast enough. Before that 4.77 was the figure. With hindsight I take this as a symptom the hardware was really underutlized. There was no upgrade pressure at all. >The original model had 16 KB (that's *kilo*bytes) of memory soldered >onto the system board, with sockets for another 48 KB. CPU was >an Intel 8088 running at 4.77 MHz, and the BIOS chip included what >IBM called "Cassette BASIC". A microsoft basic with it's own weirdness. The PCs continued to boot into basic if other boot methods failed for a number of years; at least past the AT introduction; long after the Basic was the reference point it once was. >The base system had a built-in I/O controller only for the keyboard >(included with the system) and a cassette recorder (user-supplied) >that you could plug into 5-pin DIN connector on the back; everything >else required extra-cost adapter cards (five sockets total). Wasn't there a primitive game port as well, or was that on the printer board? This implicitly enforced ISA bus compliance from everyone involved from day one; and was thus a good thing with the hindsight of today. >The "typical" configuration included the full 64 KB of memory (often >with additional memory on a plug-in card), the monochrome display >adapter (MDA), and a floppy drive controller with two, 160-KB 5-1/4" >(single-side, double-density) floppy drives. IBM's monochrome display >was quite good and many users bought one. The Color Graphics Adapter >(CGA) was available but there was no IBM color display. The CGA >included an NTSC output that could be connected into a modulator >to drive a standard color TV, but IBM chose not to offer a modulator, >probably to avoid the inevitable problems with RF interference complaints. > >Mice were in the future; probably the model that brought mice into >common use was the gray-and-green Microsoft busmouse which became >available a few years later. There were no mice anywhere at that time. There were some digitizing tablets with pointers, but they were not anything close to mice. >Construction of the box was done to IBM's usual battleship-grade >standards. Ditto for the keyboard, which was almost universally >praised as having excellent characteristics for touch-typers. The >original keyboard had only ten function keys (on the left side in >two columns of five); the only CTRL and ALT keys were on the left >and CAPS LOCK was below the right-hand SHIFT key. > >That year the summer SHARE meeting was in Chicago; I recall being it >a session a day or so after the introduction when the IBMer passed >around several of the keyboards for the attendees to examine. Everyone >was impressed. (Side note: SHARE was, and still is, the user group for >large IBM scientific and educational customers.) IBM always could make quality hardware that lasted for a long time. I still have an old PC/XT from 1984 that is in perfect runnable condition after a decade of hard use in a dusty industrial location. >Documentation arrived in looseleaf binders in rigid slipcases. For >$100 or so you could buy the Technical Reference Manual which included >full schematics and a slightly out-of-date BIOS assembly listing. This manual and later siblings were very useful to anyone seriously involved with PCs later in the eighties. I still have it accessible in my bookshelf at home. [snip] >And the original PC I bought later that year is still sitting in my >basement, and last time I turned it on (admittedly many years ago) >it still worked. > >Oh yes, price. IIRC a system with: > > - Base unit > - Extra 48 KB system board memory > - Expansion memory card with 512 KB installed > - MDA > - Monochrome display > - Floppy drive controller > - Two, 160 KB floppy drives > - printer adapter > - Epson 7-pin dot matrix printer > >cost ~$5000. > >Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:28:32 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 11 Message-ID: <9l8km0$5lg$1@top.mitre.org> References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3i94l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997709312 5808 128.29.251.13 (13 Aug 2001 13:28:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:28:32 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87082 mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) writes: [was evaluating a PC...] > The machine had 512+16 megabytes >of memory; Ummm.... methinks you've had a slip of the (virtual) pen; that would have been *kilo*bytes. Joe Morris ###### Message-ID: <3B77F67B.2D933932@primeline.net> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:47:07 -0400 From: "Gary Tait, Very Real" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3i94l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: Virginia.BMTS.Com!unknown@nas3-ip-149.kac.primeline.net X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.183.128.12 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 997716850 216.183.128.12 (13 Aug 2001 10:34:10 -0500) Lines: 51 X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 80,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!feed-out.newsfeeds.com!news-out.newsfeeds.com!corp.newsgroups.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87101 Morten Reistad wrote: > > In article <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org>, Joe Morris wrote: > >Next Sunday is the 20th anniversary of the introduction of the original > >IBM Personal Computer. Some comments for our newer readers... > > >The original model had 16 KB (that's *kilo*bytes) of memory soldered > >onto the system board, with sockets for another 48 KB. CPU was > >an Intel 8088 running at 4.77 MHz, and the BIOS chip included what > >IBM called "Cassette BASIC". > > A microsoft basic with it's own weirdness. The PCs continued to > boot into basic if other boot methods failed for a number of years; > at least past the AT introduction; long after the Basic was the > reference point it once was. That is becase IBM had the exclusive right to include a ROM basic. That is whey clones (and recent IBMs that I believe used Phoenix BIOS or similar), come up as No ROM BASIC, or simply Boot Error. > >The base system had a built-in I/O controller only for the keyboard > >(included with the system) and a cassette recorder (user-supplied) > >that you could plug into 5-pin DIN connector on the back; everything > >else required extra-cost adapter cards (five sockets total). > > Wasn't there a primitive game port as well, or was that on the printer > board? Not on IBMs. AFAIK, at least until the Multimedia PC era, there was no IBM game adapter, only aftermarket adapters included them. Tandys did have joystick ports, but used the same ones used on their COCO. > > - Epson 7-pin dot matrix printer > > Wasn't in 9 pin? -- Gary Tait,VE3VBF Homepage: http://www.primeline.net/~tait **** Do not Email back me newsgroup responses, just post them. **** ---- Replace x with e , and y to a to email me, if required ---- -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ###### From: diskette@shell2.fdn.com (STD DIALUP) Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <9l12ct$f27@netaxs.com> <6usnezveyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 14 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:23:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.199.0.138 X-Trace: news1.fdn.com 997727023 216.199.0.138 (Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:23:43 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:23:43 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news1.fdn.com!shell2!diskette Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87135 Neil Franklin (neil@franklin.ch.remove) wrote: : Slow (<1kbit/s) and very unreliable. That is why BASIC had an verify : command (that is: load, but compare with already loaded instead of : overwrite, so one does not load a broken tape destroying the still : complete program that could be saved a second time). : Floppies were a godsend. Even 170k connected via an slow serial cable : (Commodore C64 + 1541). And PC/AT 360/1.2M, wow! That reminds me of the Fast Load cartridges made for the slow Commodore 1541 diskette drive. I'm considering reaching for it again with the slow loading time of windows 2000. ###### Message-ID: <3B784F10.23B95290@ev1.net> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:05:04 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3i94l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no> <3B77F67B.2D933932@primeline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997733140 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (13 Aug 2001 15:05:40 -0500) Lines: 32 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!lon1-news.nildram.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87358 "Gary Tait, Very Real" wrote: > > Morten Reistad wrote: > > > > In article <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org>, Joe Morris wrote: > > >Next Sunday is the 20th anniversary of the introduction of the original > > >IBM Personal Computer. Some comments for our newer readers... > > > > >The original model had 16 KB (that's *kilo*bytes) of memory soldered > > >onto the system board, with sockets for another 48 KB. CPU was > > >an Intel 8088 running at 4.77 MHz, and the BIOS chip included what > > >IBM called "Cassette BASIC". > > > > A microsoft basic with it's own weirdness. The PCs continued to > > boot into basic if other boot methods failed for a number of years; > > at least past the AT introduction; long after the Basic was the > > reference point it once was. > > That is becase IBM had the exclusive right to include a ROM basic. > That is whey clones (and recent IBMs that I believe used Phoenix BIOS > or similar), come up as No ROM BASIC, or simply Boot Error. > I am *not* aware if the IBM PC had an *exclusive* license on ROM BASIC, but IIRC, IBM was *required* to put at least *part* of the BASIC in ROM. That is why you can *not* take the BASICA.EXE off of an IBM PC, and run it on a clone...because *part* of the code necessary for this to execute is located in the BASIC ROM... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3i94l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no> <9l8km0$5lg$1@top.mitre.org> Organization: Me, Myself and I X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) From: mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) Originator: mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) Message-ID: Lines: 17 Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:16:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.71.26.5 X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@Norway.EU.net X-Trace: nreader1.kpnqwest.net 997780575 193.71.26.5 (Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:16:15 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:16:15 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!134.222.94.5!npeer.kpnqwest.net!nreader1.kpnqwest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87289 In article <9l8km0$5lg$1@top.mitre.org>, Joe Morris wrote: >mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) writes: > >[was evaluating a PC...] > >> The machine had 512+16 megabytes >>of memory; > >Ummm.... methinks you've had a slip of the (virtual) pen; that would >have been *kilo*bytes. Yep. I stand corrected. > >Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: 14 Aug 2001 13:56:11 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9lbalr$2k4$1@top.mitre.org> References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3i94l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no> <3B77F67B.2D933932@primeline.net> <3B784F10.23B95290@ev1.net> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997797371 2692 128.29.251.13 (14 Aug 2001 13:56:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 13:56:11 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!zur.uu.net!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87087 Charles Richmond writes: >I am *not* aware if the IBM PC had an *exclusive* license on ROM BASIC, >but IIRC, IBM was *required* to put at least *part* of the BASIC in ROM. >That is why you can *not* take the BASICA.EXE off of an IBM PC, and run >it on a clone...because *part* of the code necessary for this to execute >is located in the BASIC ROM... The reason why the ROM-based BASIC (aka "Cassette BASIC") was required was that the low-end machine had no storage device interface other than the cassette port, and there was no boot mechanism for it. There had to be *something* in the system that would permit the user to interact with it on systems with no disks of any type. Old-timers quiz: what was the well-publicized flaw in the Cassette BASIC that was never fixed except by telling users to run BASICA? Joe Morris ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: 14 Aug 2001 21:29:29 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 24 Message-ID: <6u66bqo2xy.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3i94l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no> <3B77F67B.2D933932@primeline.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 997817369 667 10.0.3.2 (14 Aug 2001 19:29:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 19:29:29 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87449 "Gary Tait, Very Real" writes: > Morten Reistad wrote: > > > > Wasn't there a primitive game port as well, or was that on the printer > > board? > > Not on IBMs. AFAIK, at least until the Multimedia PC era, there was no > IBM game adapter, only aftermarket adapters included them. Nope. There was an dual analog joystick adapter from very early on. By the time I got may 286 PC/AT clone in 1988 it had already migrated to the clone standard parallel/dual-serial/game card. The game port later vanished, to reappear on sound/multimedia cards. I remember my p/ds/g card dying after an lightning hit to our house and there being only p/ds/floppy/IDE cards in the shops to replace it, that would be early 1990s. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### From: mwmiller@columbus.rr.com (Matthew W. Miller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> Reply-To: mwmiller@columbus.rr.com Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 22 Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 23:33:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.24.103.95 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.columbus.rr.com 997832020 65.24.103.95 (Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:33:40 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:33:40 EDT Organization: Road Runner Columbus Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone.columbus.rr.com!typhoon.columbus.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87493 On 10 Aug 2001 12:53:43 GMT, Joe Morris wrote: >Next Sunday is the 20th anniversary of the introduction of the original >IBM Personal Computer. ... >The original model had 16 KB (that's *kilo*bytes) of memory soldered onto >the system board, with sockets for another 48 KB. CPU was an Intel 8088 >running at 4.77 MHz, and the BIOS chip included what IBM called "Cassette >BASIC". http://www.interhemd.com/norombasic.html >The Color Graphics Adapter (CGA) was available but there was no IBM color >display. The CGA included an NTSC output that could be connected into a >modulator to drive a standard color TV, but IBM chose not to offer a >modulator, probably to avoid the inevitable problems with RF interference >complaints. Quickly now, who can diagram all 64 CGA colors and which ones were the default 16 used in text mode? Of course, I was using a clunky Commie 64 back then, myself... -- Matthew W. Miller -- mwmiller@columbus.rr.com ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: 15 Aug 2001 23:11:45 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 20 Message-ID: <6ulmkl110u.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 997909905 2131 10.0.3.2 (15 Aug 2001 21:11:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Aug 2001 21:11:45 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87560 mwmiller@columbus.rr.com (Matthew W. Miller) writes: > >The Color Graphics Adapter (CGA) was available but there was no IBM color > >display. The CGA included an NTSC output that could be connected into a > >modulator to drive a standard color TV, but IBM chose not to offer a > >modulator, probably to avoid the inevitable problems with RF interference > >complaints. > > Quickly now, who can diagram all 64 CGA colors and which ones were the > default 16 used in text mode? You are confusing EGA (which had 16 of 64 colours, 16*3(rbg)*2bit(4levels) translation table) and CGA which had 16 fixed colours (rgbi). -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### Message-ID: <3B7C0F4B.843B8C9E@primeline.net> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:22:03 -0400 From: "Gary Tait, Very Real" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3i94l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no> <3B77F67B.2D933932@primeline.net> <3B784F10.23B95290@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: Virginia.BMTS.Com!unknown@nas2-ip-122.kac.primeline.net X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.183.128.12 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 997985320 216.183.128.12 (16 Aug 2001 13:08:40 -0500) Lines: 53 X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 80,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!local-out2.newsfeeds.com!corp.newsgroups.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87580 Charles Richmond wrote: > > "Gary Tait, Very Real" wrote: > > > > Morten Reistad wrote: > > > > > > In article <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org>, Joe Morris wrote: > > > >Next Sunday is the 20th anniversary of the introduction of the original > > > >IBM Personal Computer. Some comments for our newer readers... > > > > > > >The original model had 16 KB (that's *kilo*bytes) of memory soldered > > > >onto the system board, with sockets for another 48 KB. CPU was > > > >an Intel 8088 running at 4.77 MHz, and the BIOS chip included what > > > >IBM called "Cassette BASIC". > > > > > > A microsoft basic with it's own weirdness. The PCs continued to > > > boot into basic if other boot methods failed for a number of years; > > > at least past the AT introduction; long after the Basic was the > > > reference point it once was. > > > > That is becase IBM had the exclusive right to include a ROM basic. > > That is whey clones (and recent IBMs that I believe used Phoenix BIOS > > or similar), come up as No ROM BASIC, or simply Boot Error. > > > I am *not* aware if the IBM PC had an *exclusive* license on ROM BASIC, > but IIRC, IBM was *required* to put at least *part* of the BASIC in ROM. > That is why you can *not* take the BASICA.EXE off of an IBM PC, and run > it on a clone...because *part* of the code necessary for this to execute > is located in the BASIC ROM... > IBM had some sort of exclusive PC license for ROM basic, that is why there is no ROM basic on clones. If BIOS manufaturers were required to have ROM basic, you'd probalby see it, unless the license cost too much. > -- > +-------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Charles and Francis Richmond | > +-------------------------------------------------------------+ -- Gary Tait,VE3VBF Homepage: http://www.primeline.net/~tait **** Do not Email back me newsgroup responses, just post them. **** ---- Replace x with e , and y to a to email me, if required ---- -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ###### Message-ID: <3B7C1167.F6B65DC6@primeline.net> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:31:03 -0400 From: "Gary Tait, Very Real" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: Virginia.BMTS.Com!unknown@nas2-ip-122.kac.primeline.net X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.183.128.12 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 997985858 216.183.128.12 (16 Aug 2001 13:17:38 -0500) Lines: 38 X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 80,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!local-out2.newsfeeds.com!corp.newsgroups.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87578 "Matthew W. Miller" wrote: > > >The Color Graphics Adapter (CGA) was available but there was no IBM color > >display. The CGA included an NTSC output that could be connected into a > >modulator to drive a standard color TV, but IBM chose not to offer a > >modulator, probably to avoid the inevitable problems with RF interference > >complaints. > > Quickly now, who can diagram all 64 CGA colors and which ones were the > default 16 used in text mode? > Of course, I was using a clunky Commie 64 back then, myself... > -- > Matthew W. Miller -- mwmiller@columbus.rr.com RGBI Black 0000 Grey 0001 Red 1000 Brt Red 1001 Green 0100 Brt Grn 0101 Yel 1100 Brt Yel 1101 Blue 0010 Brt Blue 0011 Purple 1010 Magenta 1011 Cyan 0110 Brt Cyan 0111 White 1110 Br White 1111 The numbers might be different, but the colours are based on 4 bits, one each for the R,G,B guns, and an intensity bit which would turn all guns a little brighter. -- Gary Tait,VE3VBF Homepage: http://www.primeline.net/~tait **** Do not Email back me newsgroup responses, just post them. **** ---- Replace x with e , and y to a to email me, if required ---- -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: hoh@invalid.invalid (Goran Larsson) Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Message-ID: Organization: [1] + 5934 done /bin/rm -rf ~/ & X-No-Archive: yes X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test73 (May 24, 2000) References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3B77F67B.2D933932@primeline.net> <3B784F10.23B95290@ev1.net> <3B7C0F4B.843B8C9E@primeline.net> Lines: 14 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:56:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.244.216.243 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 997992063 130.244.216.243 (Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:01:03 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:01:03 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.online.be!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!192.71.180.34!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87643 In article <3B7C0F4B.843B8C9E@primeline.net>, Gary Tait, Very Real wrote: > IBM had some sort of exclusive PC license for ROM basic, that is why > there is no ROM basic on clones. I have used a CAD system on a clone PC (1985-ish) with ROM BASIC onboard. Either it was possible to include ROM BASIC, or this clone simply contained a illegal copy of the IBM ROMs. Perhaps "no legal ROM BASIC on clones" is the true statement? -- Göran Larsson Senior Systems Analyst hoh AT approve DOT se ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:01:29 -0500 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3B7C1167.F6B65DC6@primeline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZqdgdyFhxjK+RfxiLwMKDpc9Iiwui6+IRVNNwqjQsHmWMnmT8vPAft X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Aug 2001 22:03:32 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87654 On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:31:03 -0400, "Gary Tait, Very Real" wrote: > RGBI I was confused until I realized that this was in the wrong order. This list keyed from the Color/Graphics section of the XT ref man: R G B I Color 0 0 0 0 Black 0 0 1 0 Blue 0 1 0 0 Green 0 1 1 0 Cyan 1 0 0 0 Red 1 0 1 0 Magenta 1 1 0 0 Brown * 1 1 1 0 White 0 0 0 1 Gray * 0 0 1 1 Light Blue 0 1 0 1 Light Green 0 1 1 1 Light Cyan 1 0 0 1 Light Red 1 0 1 1 Light Magenta 1 1 0 1 Yellow * 1 1 1 1 White (High Intensity) Basically the same list, but with the color names as used by IBM. Two bits of CGA trivia: There was a way to get the blink bit to become background intensity (bit 5 of the mode register I think) and the character generator ROM actually had two different display sets, but you had to use a knife and a soldering iron to change between them. -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: Richard Drushel Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: 17 Aug 2001 12:37:33 GMT Organization: Coleco ADAM Online, Ltd. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <9lj36d$gj3$1@plonk.apk.net> References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3B7C1167.F6B65DC6@primeline.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: junior.apk.net X-Trace: plonk.apk.net 998051853 16995 207.54.158.20 (17 Aug 2001 12:37:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@apk.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Aug 2001 12:37:33 GMT User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990624 ("Dawnrazor") (UNIX) (SunOS/5.8 (sun4u)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!plonk.apk.net!news.apk.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87667 Arargh! spake unto the ether: : CGA trivia: : and the : character generator ROM actually had two different display sets, but : you had to use a knife and a soldering iron to change between them. Hmm, IIRC, my full-length IBM CGA card has a jumper for this. I'd have to open up the XT to look. Also IIRC, I discovered it only because I was reading the schematics in the Technical Reference. I don't remember having to do any soldering, just adding a jumper on an otherwise empty set of header pins. *Rich* -- Richard F. Drushel, Ph.D. | "Aplysia californica" is your taxonomic Department of Biology, Slug Division | nomenclature. / A slug, by any other Case Western Reserve University | name, is still a slug by nature. Cleveland, Ohio 44106-7080 U.S.A. | -- apologies to Data, "Ode to Spot" ###### From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:27:08 +0100 Message-ID: <998054759.18291.0.nnrp-13.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3B7C1167.F6B65DC6@primeline.net> <9lj36d$gj3$1@plonk.apk.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 998054759 nnrp-13:18291 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2481.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2481.0000 Lines: 26 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!ams-newsfeed.speedport.net!ldn-newsfeed.speedport.net!newsfeed.speedport.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87736 "Richard Drushel" wrote in message news:9lj36d$gj3$1@plonk.apk.net... > Arargh! spake unto the ether: > > : CGA trivia: > : and the > : character generator ROM actually had two different display sets, but > : you had to use a knife and a soldering iron to change between them. > > Hmm, IIRC, my full-length IBM CGA card has a jumper for this. > I'd have to open up the XT to look. Also IIRC, I discovered it only > because I was reading the schematics in the Technical Reference. I > don't remember having to do any soldering, just adding a jumper on an > otherwise empty set of header pins. Somewhere at home I have the documents on this (In the IBM making your programs portable document) there were several character set roms, certainly Hebrew & Northern scandinavian. -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### From: Joshua Hesse <00093182@bigred.unl.edu> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: 17 Aug 2001 19:50:13 GMT Organization: People Eating Tasty Animals, UNL chapter Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9ljshl$ar$1@unlnews.unl.edu> References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: bigred.unl.edu X-HTML:
X-URL: http://straylight.unl.edu/concussion/ User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (OSF1/V4.0 (alpha)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!unlnews.unl.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87677 Matthew W. Miller wrote: :Quickly now, who can diagram all 64 CGA colors and which ones were the :default 16 used in text mode? The 16/64 colors was EGA. Pushed that thing to it's limits too. (In GW-BASIC, no less! Parents were too cheap to get me an assembler or C... :-( ) IIRC, the 64 color palette bit structure was rgbRGB (MSB...LSB) -Josh -- "I have also mastered pomposity, even if I do say so myself." -Kryten UNL Anime Club: http://www.unl.edu/otaku "I'd be proud to vote for tax increases... You bet I would." -Dick Gephardt ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:15:31 -0500 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 29 Message-ID: <3f8rnt4hgd22l4r8p63ung7akpsnq8v8p1@4ax.com> References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3B7C1167.F6B65DC6@primeline.net> <9lj36d$gj3$1@plonk.apk.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZdcUQhvZYJJz/V4nUPc9V31U1OmPV1a7vxdNqXu0j7jaz2qd8VN2PQ X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Aug 2001 23:15:35 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.germany.net!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87731 On 17 Aug 2001 12:37:33 GMT, Richard Drushel wrote: > Hmm, IIRC, my full-length IBM CGA card has a jumper for this. >I'd have to open up the XT to look. Also IIRC, I discovered it only >because I was reading the schematics in the Technical Reference. I >don't remember having to do any soldering, just adding a jumper on an >otherwise empty set of header pins. Maybe your card is newer or older than the ones that I have. I just checked all 3 of the CGA's that I have, and none of them have any unexplained headers. P1 is a 4 pin header for video out, P2 is for the light pen, and P3 (next to pin 1 of the 6845) has no pins, and is not mentioned on the schematic. I assume that P3 is it, but I have no way to check that. I haven't had a machine slow enough for a CGA (nor a monitor) for years. One other thing that I did in the far past, was to hack up one of the cards so that I could put two CGA's in the same computer. I moved the memory address, the base I/O address, and added commands to flip between the two character sets. I also fixed the memory space bug while I was at it. I had run out of unused gates and had to add an extra 7474 to the board. (I think that was for the character set latch, but I don't remember). -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:17:47 -0500 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3B7C1167.F6B65DC6@primeline.net> <9lj36d$gj3$1@plonk.apk.net> <998054759.18291.0.nnrp-13.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYHngxmXbTMntU6P2fE2o1w0mQGmTP3gzY0hvwKSPeLTB3XZJE+J1zC X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Aug 2001 23:17:51 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87732 On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:27:08 +0100, "Peter Ibbotson" wrote: >Somewhere at home I have the documents on this (In the IBM making your >programs portable document) there were several character set roms, certainly >Hebrew & Northern scandinavian. I am sure that there were, but I was talking about an undocumented character set that was already in the standard card. -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: 18 Aug 2001 19:22:53 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9lmfad$mrp$1@top.mitre.org> References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3B7C1167.F6B65DC6@primeline.net> <9lj36d$gj3$1@plonk.apk.net> <998054759.18291.0.nnrp-13.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 998162573 23417 128.29.251.13 (18 Aug 2001 19:22:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Aug 2001 19:22:53 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87757 "Peter Ibbotson" writes: >"Richard Drushel" wrote: >> : character generator ROM actually had two different display sets, but >> : you had to use a knife and a soldering iron to change between them. >> Hmm, IIRC, my full-length IBM CGA card has a jumper for this. >> I'd have to open up the XT to look. Also IIRC, I discovered it only >> because I was reading the schematics in the Technical Reference. I >> don't remember having to do any soldering, just adding a jumper on an >> otherwise empty set of header pins. >Somewhere at home I have the documents on this (In the IBM making your >programs portable document) there were several character set roms, certainly >Hebrew & Northern scandinavian. IIRC (and my old IBM manuals are at home; I'm at the office) the CGA and MDA used the same character generating chip -- which I discovered when I bought the chip from what was then STSC (previusly Scientific Time Sharing Corporation, now Manugistics) to use with their APL interpreter. OT question: does anyone market a decent APL for the PC these days? Joe Morris ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 16:38:56 -0500 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3B7C1167.F6B65DC6@primeline.net> <9lj36d$gj3$1@plonk.apk.net> <998054759.18291.0.nnrp-13.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lmfad$mrp$1@top.mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaPdiibsceiuonFk0PyyETzs9RkKlT3Q9RpMrOpcSJSGKhCvyxgSogu X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Aug 2001 21:39:00 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87773 On 18 Aug 2001 19:22:53 GMT, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >IIRC (and my old IBM manuals are at home; I'm at the office) the CGA >and MDA used the same character generating chip -- which I discovered Correct, a motorola MC6845, actually a video generator. >when I bought the chip from what was then STSC (previusly Scientific >Time Sharing Corporation, now Manugistics) to use with their APL >interpreter. -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: mwmiller@columbus.rr.com (Matthew W. Miller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <9ljshl$ar$1@unlnews.unl.edu> Reply-To: mwmiller@columbus.rr.com Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 12 Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 02:42:04 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.210.227.143 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.columbus.rr.com 998275324 204.210.227.143 (Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:42:04 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:42:04 EDT Organization: Road Runner Columbus Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone.columbus.rr.com!typhoon.columbus.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87813 On 17 Aug 2001 19:50:13 GMT, Joshua Hesse <00093182@bigred.unl.edu> wrote: >Matthew W. Miller wrote: >:Quickly now, who can diagram all 64 CGA colors and which ones were the >:default 16 used in text mode? >The 16/64 colors was EGA. >IIRC, the 64 color palette bit structure was rgbRGB (MSB...LSB) Indeed. Drat drat drat. I was wondering if anyone would be tripped up by non-bright 'yellow', but I only succeeded in tripping up myself. Maybe I should go back to the Commie. -- Matthew W. Miller -- mwmiller@columbus.rr.com ###### From: "Bill Marcum" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <9l0lgn$l0m$1@top.mitre.org> <3B77F67B.2D933932@primeline.net> <3B784F10.23B95290@ev1.net> <3B7C0F4B.843B8C9E@primeline.net> Subject: Re: Happy 20th Birthday, PC! Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:31:01 -0400 Lines: 21 Organization: Llewellyn's Ming Vase Shuffleboard League X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0913.2206 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0913.2200 NNTP-Posting-Host: lou-ts3-32.iglou.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: lou-ts3-32.iglou.com Message-ID: <3b834305_2@news.iglou.com> X-Trace: news.iglou.com 998458117 lou-ts3-32.iglou.com (22 Aug 2001 01:28:37 -0400) X-Authenticated-User: bmarcum X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.255.239.138 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!zur.uu.net!ash.uu.net!news.iglou.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87892 Goran Larsson wrote in message ... >In article <3B7C0F4B.843B8C9E@primeline.net>, >Gary Tait, Very Real wrote: > >> IBM had some sort of exclusive PC license for ROM basic, that is why >> there is no ROM basic on clones. > > >I have used a CAD system on a clone PC (1985-ish) with ROM BASIC >onboard. Either it was possible to include ROM BASIC, or this clone >simply contained a illegal copy of the IBM ROMs. Perhaps "no legal ROM >BASIC on clones" is the true statement? > Or perhaps the license for ROM Basic was priced too high to be worth it, especially since nearly all clones had disk drives. Few PC manufacturers had DOS in ROM, despite the advantages of an instant-on, virus-proof system.