Message-ID: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:26:30 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: YKYGOW... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 996776579 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (2 Aug 2001 13:22:59 -0500) Lines: 29 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86508 jchausler wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > You know you're getting old when all the people you looked up to > and admired in your youth are dead. > You know you're getting old when (YKYGOW)... A coin made in the year you were born...has all the details almost completely worn off of it... The memory card for a $100 computer game unit has *four* times the memory of the first mega-dollar *mainframe* computer you used... You remember when audio recordings had *grooves* instead of pits to be read by a laser... Your first TV set had the horizontal and vertical hold adjustments in an easily-accessable place... You remember when it was called a "transistor radio" instead of just a radio... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:33:20 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 29 Message-ID: <20010802223320.76dcbf7d.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1294.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 996800472 41681 194.134.170.19 (3 Aug 2001 01:01:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 01:01:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86452 On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:26:30 -0700 Charles Richmond wrote: CR> You know you're getting old when (YKYGOW)... Oh dear, I just made a full score and I thought I was one of the younger ones here :( I wish to call for an ammendment, YKYGOW these describe events you consider *recent*. CR> You remember when audio recordings had *grooves* instead of CR> pits to be read by a laser... CR> CR> Your first TV set had the horizontal and vertical hold adjustments CR> in an easily-accessable place... CR> CR> You remember when it was called a "transistor radio" instead of CR> just a radio... And one more, You groaned aloud when in 1987 the posters loudly proclaimed It *was* twenty years ago today ... -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: alan.nospam@glaramara.freeserve.co.uk (Alan J. Wylie) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 02 Aug 2001 22:28:07 +0100 Organization: very little Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-473.grouse.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk 996788595 30700 62.137.113.217 (2 Aug 2001 21:43:15 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Aug 2001 21:43:15 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!195.54.122.107!newsfeed1.bredband.com!bredband!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!linuxbox.ajwnet!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86390 On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:26:30 -0700, Charles Richmond said: > You remember when it was called a "transistor radio" instead of just > a radio... YRW it was called a "wireless" and glowed in the dark. -- Alan J. Wylie http://www.glaramara.freeserve.co.uk/ "Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but rather when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery ###### From: j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 22:06:33 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 48 Message-ID: <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-669.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86443 You remember saving (or rather, NOT saving) programs on audio cassettes. Adding a serial port to your computer meant the ability to hook up a surplus teletype. One word: BASIC You could tell a really ADVANCED printer, because it had lower case. You remember the excitement the first time you saw a REAL disk drive attached to a home computer (and not just the pictures in a magazine). Punch Cards. On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:26:30 -0700, Charles Richmond wrote: >jchausler wrote: >> >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> >> You know you're getting old when all the people you looked up to >> and admired in your youth are dead. >> >You know you're getting old when (YKYGOW)... > >A coin made in the year you were born...has all the details >almost completely worn off of it... > >The memory card for a $100 computer game unit has *four* >times the memory of the first mega-dollar *mainframe* >computer you used... > >You remember when audio recordings had *grooves* instead of >pits to be read by a laser... > >Your first TV set had the horizontal and vertical hold adjustments >in an easily-accessable place... > >You remember when it was called a "transistor radio" instead of >just a radio... J. Steven York - www.sff.net/people/j-steven-york - Writer Generation X Novels: Crossroads, Genogoths Bolo, Old Guard (Now in stores, from Baen Books) ###### From: never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 2 Aug 2001 22:22:40 GMT Organization: A small notepad underneath my in box Lines: 15 Message-ID: <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 996790960 20043 166.84.0.227 (2 Aug 2001 22:22:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Aug 2001 22:22:40 GMT X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86397 In article , Alan J. Wylie wrote: >On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:26:30 -0700, Charles Richmond said: > >> You remember when it was called a "transistor radio" instead of just >> a radio... What was it called before there were transistors? >YRW it was called a "wireless" and glowed in the dark. Hey, that's my cellphone! -- If I don't see you in the future, I'll see you in the pasture. ###### From: idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk (Dr Ivan D. Reid) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 2 Aug 2001 22:25:07 GMT Organization: University College London Lines: 49 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> Reply-To: idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: ax9.hep.ucl.ac.uk X-Trace: uns-a.ucl.ac.uk 996791107 9904 128.40.4.79 (2 Aug 2001 22:25:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ucl.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Aug 2001 22:25:07 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.3 (OSF1) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!ucl.ac.uk!idr Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86456 On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:26:30 -0700, Charles Richmond wrote in <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net>: >jchausler wrote: >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> You know you're getting old when all the people you looked up to >> and admired in your youth are dead. >You know you're getting old when (YKYGOW)... >A coin made in the year you were born...has all the details >almost completely worn off of it... Found such a 20 Rp piece in Switzerland the other day, but not worn. Looked almost exactly like a modern one, except for a slightly different patina and its being rejected by the Coke machine, both due to its silver content I believe. >The memory card for a $100 computer game unit has *four* >times the memory of the first mega-dollar *mainframe* >computer you used... How much core did a 360/50 have? We just submitted cards... >You remember when audio recordings had *grooves* instead of >pits to be read by a laser... ...and they were just hill-'n'-dale rather than variations in two orthogonal directions. Extra points if you remember cactus spines or bamboo meedles. >Your first TV set had the horizontal and vertical hold adjustments >in an easily-accessable place... ...and was black-and-white! >You remember when it was called a "transistor radio" instead of >just a radio... You used to send a 12V lead-acid accumulator into town once a month to be charged up to run your valve radio, and your telephone was powered by _very_ large 1.5V carbon-zinc batteries. -- Ivan Reid, Physics & Astronomy, University College London. idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk GSX600F, RG250WD. "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO# 003, 005 WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon) KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty". ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 00:41:56 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <996799316snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 996801666 mail2news:19664 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 47 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news.ndh.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86518 In article idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk "Dr Ivan D. Reid" writes: > On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:26:30 -0700, Charles Richmond > wrote in <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net>: > > >You remember when audio recordings had *grooves* instead of > >pits to be read by a laser... > > ...and they were just hill-'n'-dale rather than variations in > two orthogonal directions. Extra points if you remember cactus spines > or bamboo meedles. Yup: and the little gizmo for "sharpening fibre needles". Not to mention the little pot, with a magnet, that had about 100 nicely chromed steel spare needles, just alongside the tone arm. How about uncoupling the pickup from the end of the tone arm and substituting an *electric pickup* (which still used the steel or fibre needles)? This was then connected into an auxiliary input (marked "Gram") at the rear of the Ekco wireless, and the waveband switch twiddled round to use this signal source. Long (in our house, 30yds) two-core cable, with multiple very fine strands, with DSC (double silk covering). [That particular length of twisted-pair cable had been liberated from the original HMY Britannia between the wars; the silk was a nice royal-blue, and it had apparently been strung everywhere as "bell wire".] > >You remember when it was called a "transistor radio" instead of > >just a radio... > > You used to send a 12V lead-acid accumulator into town once a > month to be charged up to run your valve radio, and your telephone was > powered by _very_ large 1.5V carbon-zinc batteries. ISTR that the accumulator for the filaments was a single-cell 2V job. Oh, and how about a proper glass Leclanche cell? (I never saw one deployed on a local-battery phone, but did see them in use for the front door bell.) -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 02:21:28 GMT Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net Message-ID: <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm3-13.shuswap.net X-Trace: 2 Aug 2001 19:37:38 -0700, salmonarm3-13.shuswap.net Lines: 39 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!feed.textport.net!news.bnb-lp.com!nubby2.!salmonarm3-13.shuswap.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86424 j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) wrote: >You remember saving (or rather, NOT saving) programs on audio >cassettes. You remember arguing whether Radio Shack's special computer cassette tape's "Certified / Leaderless" meant the tape was certified and was leaderless or was just certified leaderless. >Adding a serial port to your computer meant the ability to hook up a >surplus teletype. > >One word: BASIC > >You could tell a really ADVANCED printer, because it had lower case. Your Epson printer could be easily picked up, and this impressed a fellow computer club member. >You remember the excitement the first time you saw a REAL disk drive >attached to a home computer (and not just the pictures in a magazine). You remember the excitement the first time you saw a modem attached to a personal computer. "personal computer" and "IBM" were antonyms. >Punch Cards. [snipped previous] Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:43:12 -0400 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-052.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed.germany.net!news.tele.dk!199.60.229.5!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86487 In article <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com>, never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach) wrote: > What was it called before there were transistors? It was called a "radio". Later, they needed to distinguish the new transistor type from the older tube-based kind. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### From: j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 04:39:25 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 34 Message-ID: <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-219.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86438 You have ever owned a tube tester. (Extra points if you still do. I have a portable one sitting under my desk right now. ) On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:26:30 -0700, Charles Richmond wrote: >jchausler wrote: >> >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> >> You know you're getting old when all the people you looked up to >> and admired in your youth are dead. >> >You know you're getting old when (YKYGOW)... > >A coin made in the year you were born...has all the details >almost completely worn off of it... > >The memory card for a $100 computer game unit has *four* >times the memory of the first mega-dollar *mainframe* >computer you used... > >You remember when audio recordings had *grooves* instead of >pits to be read by a laser... > >Your first TV set had the horizontal and vertical hold adjustments >in an easily-accessable place... > >You remember when it was called a "transistor radio" instead of >just a radio... J. Steven York - www.sff.net/people/j-steven-york - Writer Generation X Novels: Crossroads, Genogoths Bolo, Old Guard (Now in stores, from Baen Books) ###### From: solomontaibi@computer.org (Sol Taibi) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 2 Aug 2001 21:39:50 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 2 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.179.163.219 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 996813590 10047 127.0.0.1 (3 Aug 2001 04:39:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Aug 2001 04:39:50 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86492 YKYGOW you know what the "carriage" as in "carriage return" looked like. ###### Message-ID: <3B6A5656.A3E380C9@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010802223320.76dcbf7d.steveo@eircom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 08:25:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.167.57 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 996827103 12.90.167.57 (Fri, 03 Aug 2001 08:25:03 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 08:25:03 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86357 Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:26:30 -0700 > Charles Richmond wrote: > > CR> You know you're getting old when (YKYGOW)... > > Oh dear, I just made a full score and I thought I was one of the > younger ones here :( I wish to call for an ammendment, > > YKYGOW these describe events you consider *recent*. > > CR> You remember when audio recordings had *grooves* instead of > CR> pits to be read by a laser... > CR> > CR> Your first TV set had the horizontal and vertical hold adjustments > CR> in an easily-accessable place... > CR> > CR> You remember when it was called a "transistor radio" instead of > CR> just a radio... > > And one more, > > You groaned aloud when in 1987 the posters loudly proclaimed > > It *was* twenty years ago today ... A few more: You can clearly remember VE day your reaction to Hiroshima. the All-American 5. Loctal. gM in millimhos. 2N404. DTL and RTL running boards and rumble seats. FDR and HST McCarthy and HUSAC -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### From: idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk (Dr Ivan D. Reid) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 3 Aug 2001 09:52:23 GMT Organization: University College London Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com> Reply-To: idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: ax9.hep.ucl.ac.uk X-Trace: uns-a.ucl.ac.uk 996832343 16082 128.40.4.79 (3 Aug 2001 09:52:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ucl.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Aug 2001 09:52:23 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.3 (OSF1) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!skynet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!ucl.ac.uk!idr Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86450 On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:43:12 -0400, Howard S Shubs wrote in : >In article <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com>, > never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach) wrote: >> What was it called before there were transistors? >It was called a "radio". Later, they needed to distinguish the new transistor >type from the older tube-based kind. And the number of transistors was important[1]! I recall at least one model where the manufacturer used defective transistors as diodes, to up the "count" displayed on the front. [1] A bit like the number of jewels in a wristwatch. -- Ivan Reid, Physics & Astronomy, University College London. idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk GSX600F, RG250WD. "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO# 003, 005 WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon) KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty". ###### From: mkurtti Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kdrhn$3t5c7$1@ID-21098.news.dfncis.de> Organization: MK Computers X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.30 Lines: 2 X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 08:26:28 EDT Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 07:33:28 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.netcologne.de!news.tele.dk!24.226.1.12!feed.cgocable.net!out.nntp.be!propagator-dallas!news-in-dallas.newsfeeds.com!in.nntp.be!easynews!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-chi1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86462 And when you breadboarded a project you used a real breadboard.> Marv ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 3 Aug 2001 13:18:39 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9ke8bf$flj$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 996844719 16051 128.29.251.13 (3 Aug 2001 13:18:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Aug 2001 13:18:39 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86375 Steve O'Hara-Smith writes: CR> You know you're getting old when (YKYGOW)... CR> You remember when it was called a "transistor radio" instead of CR> just a radio... ...or even worse, when the "in" crowd was calling them "transistors". From personal experience: you go to a commercial battery distributor (for electrical equipment, not automotive) where the staffer is approaching retirement age -- and have to explain what an "ABC" battery might be. Or go to an electronics part store and innocently ask for Fahenstock (sp?) clips. Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 3 Aug 2001 13:27:53 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 29 Message-ID: <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 996845273 16184 128.29.251.13 (3 Aug 2001 13:27:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Aug 2001 13:27:53 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86379 idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk (Dr Ivan D. Reid) writes: >Charles Richmond wrote: >>You remember when audio recordings had *grooves* instead of >>pits to be read by a laser... > ...and they were just hill-'n'-dale rather than variations in >two orthogonal directions. Extra points if you remember cactus spines >or bamboo meedles. Or if you remember playing with the old crank Victrola in the attic of your house, complete with the swivel-arm pickup and the little tray where you kept extra needles...and it wasn't considered to be a Valuable Antique That You Must Not Touch. >>Your first TV set had the horizontal and vertical hold adjustments >>in an easily-accessable place... > ...and was black-and-white! ...and went off the air each night to the tune of the National Anthem (at least in the US). This results in numerous jokes, cartoons, and movie scenes of a TV screen changing from a picture of a flag to pure noise, a concept that probably is totally lost on the Young Whippersnappers who have come to expect 7x24 broadcasting. Joe Morris (who for a while routinely shut down a TV station each weekday night at 10:00 PM) ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 3 Aug 2001 13:48:29 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9kea3d$g5h$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 996846509 16561 128.29.251.13 (3 Aug 2001 13:48:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Aug 2001 13:48:29 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86373 solomontaibi@computer.org (Sol Taibi) writes: >YKYGOW you know what the "carriage" as >in "carriage return" looked like. Or you don't have to stop and think about the etymology of "dial tone". You remember "acoustic couplers" that came in hardwood cases. You remember (with great loathing) the Data Access Arrangement boxes. "Carterphone" doesn't have to be explained to you even if you never actually saw one of the products of the company for which the legal decision is named. You used STR (Synchronous Transmit-Receive) to communicate with a remote data station. You remember proudly showing off your computer center's modem pool: racks and racks of Bell 103A2 modems (300 baud! Wow!), each with its own handset and control head in addition to the modem itself. Computer-controlled dialing meant using an 801C ACU (AutoCall Unit), and the idea of a dialer built into a modem was an impossible dream. Joe Morris ###### From: Eric Sosman Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 12:04:18 -0400 Organization: Sun Microsystems Lines: 6 Message-ID: <3B6ACB82.BD05E616@sun.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tardis.east.sun.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.8 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!carbon.eu.sun.com!new-usenet.uk.sun.com!eastnews1.East.Sun.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86521 YKYGOW you can remember learning that "Hz" was just a new-fangled synonym for "cps." -- Eric.Sosman@sun.com ###### From: solomontaibi@computer.org (Sol Taibi) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 3 Aug 2001 09:26:23 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.179.163.28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 996855983 32654 127.0.0.1 (3 Aug 2001 16:26:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Aug 2001 16:26:23 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86480 j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) wrote in message news:<3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com>... > You have ever owned a tube tester. (Extra points if you still do. I > have a portable one sitting under my desk right now. ) > You remember the public tube tester at the hardware store. You remember the Curta Calculator. Your first electronic pocket calculator had a red LED display and sucked a 9 volt radio battery dry in a week. ###### From: idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk (Dr Ivan D. Reid) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 3 Aug 2001 16:28:57 GMT Organization: University College London Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> Reply-To: idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: ax9.hep.ucl.ac.uk X-Trace: uns-a.ucl.ac.uk 996856137 35270 128.40.4.79 (3 Aug 2001 16:28:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ucl.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Aug 2001 16:28:57 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.3 (OSF1) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer2.clara.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!ucl.ac.uk!idr Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86455 On 3 Aug 2001 13:27:53 GMT, Joe Morris wrote in <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org>: >idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk (Dr Ivan D. Reid) writes: >> ...and was black-and-white! >...and went off the air each night to the tune of the National Anthem >(at least in the US). This results in numerous jokes, cartoons, and >movie scenes of a TV screen changing from a picture of a flag to pure >noise, a concept that probably is totally lost on the Young Whippersnappers >who have come to expect 7x24 broadcasting. Same in Oz, but we didn't get B&W until 1956, nor colour until 1972. There was a Schwabish cartoon clip on German TV once, of popular horse and monkey characters[1], and their lady poodle-dog friend, all asleep in front of the TV. Suddenly it flips to grey and the sound to white noise, waking the girl up. "Schade! Es war *so-o-o* spannende!" >Joe Morris (who for a while routinely shut down a TV station each > weekday night at 10:00 PM) [1] alt.fan.aeffle.and.pferdle -- Ivan Reid, Physics & Astronomy, University College London. idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk GSX600F, RG250WD. "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO# 003, 005 WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon) KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty". ###### From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:33:50 +0100 Message-ID: <996856256.7166.0.nnrp-14.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6ACB82.BD05E616@sun.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 996856256 nnrp-14:7166 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2481.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2481.0000 Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!195.200.0.51.MISMATCH!shale.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86502 "Eric Sosman" wrote in message news:3B6ACB82.BD05E616@sun.com... > > YKYGOW you can remember learning that "Hz" was > just a new-fangled synonym for "cps." > I read that as characters the first time. Then I remembered cycles. -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:10:49 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <996862249snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kdrhn$3t5c7$1@ID-21098.news.dfncis.de> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 996864796 mail2news:28136 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 36 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86514 In article mkurtti@knology.net "mkurtti" writes: > And when you breadboarded a project you used a real breadboard.> Ah yes, using fahnstock (sp?) clips, no doubt? Back in the 1950s and early 60s, I used to have a subscription to Popular Electronics, which arrived each month by sea mail from the USA about three weeks after publication date. Many of their projects used these clips in breadboarded construction: TTBOMK, there has never been anything like that on sale over here. OTOH, back in about 1954, my grandfather and I constructed a three-valve TRF MW receiver, using some old parts that he'd got dating back to the 1920s. So these were Mullard valves, on 4-pin bases, with 2V filaments (to run off an accumulator). For the wiring, we used some copper wire that he'd bought to do this sort of construction back in the 20s, which was of SQUARE cross-section (about 0.8mm), and was pre-tinned. Nice neat bends; soldered to heads of nails driven into a piece of 7-ply. No insulation at all, so some of the wires resembled the way that schematics used to show wires that crossed without connection (i.e. with a little "humped-back bridge" in them). A year or two later, we constructed a transistorized receiver, using the germanium "reject" transistors one could then buy: they didn't have part or model numbers, but were "green-and-yellow-dot", etc. (Oh, they both worked well.) -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> Organization: Me, Myself and I X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) From: mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) Originator: mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) Message-ID: Lines: 63 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:14:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.71.26.5 X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@Norway.EU.net X-Trace: nreader1.kpnqwest.net 996866097 193.71.26.5 (Fri, 03 Aug 2001 21:14:57 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 21:14:57 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!npeer.kpnqwest.net!nreader1.kpnqwest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86464 In article <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com>, J. Steven York wrote: >You remember saving (or rather, NOT saving) programs on audio >cassettes. > >Adding a serial port to your computer meant the ability to hook up a >surplus teletype. > >One word: BASIC > >You could tell a really ADVANCED printer, because it had lower case. > >You remember the excitement the first time you saw a REAL disk drive >attached to a home computer (and not just the pictures in a magazine). > >Punch Cards. And you remember the glory of the 029 punch (and the horrors of the 026). (And all the wonderful (and some less wonderful) uses of chad. ) And you consider TOPS20 a recent invention. And you programmed in Fortran66. (No strings; arithmetic ifs) And your new pocket camera has more storage than the first mainframe you used. You remember buying new pentodes to repair your aunts radio. >On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:26:30 -0700, Charles Richmond > wrote: > >>jchausler wrote: >>> >>> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >>> >>> You know you're getting old when all the people you looked up to >>> and admired in your youth are dead. >>> >>You know you're getting old when (YKYGOW)... >> >>A coin made in the year you were born...has all the details >>almost completely worn off of it... >> >>The memory card for a $100 computer game unit has *four* >>times the memory of the first mega-dollar *mainframe* >>computer you used... >> >>You remember when audio recordings had *grooves* instead of >>pits to be read by a laser... >> >>Your first TV set had the horizontal and vertical hold adjustments >>in an easily-accessable place... >> >>You remember when it was called a "transistor radio" instead of >>just a radio... > >J. Steven York - www.sff.net/people/j-steven-york - Writer >Generation X Novels: Crossroads, Genogoths >Bolo, Old Guard (Now in stores, from Baen Books) ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010802223320.76dcbf7d.steveo@eircom.net> <3B6A5656.A3E380C9@yahoo.com> Organization: Me, Myself and I X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) From: mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) Originator: mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) Message-ID: Lines: 55 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:14:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.71.26.5 X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@Norway.EU.net X-Trace: nreader1.kpnqwest.net 996866097 193.71.26.5 (Fri, 03 Aug 2001 21:14:57 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 21:14:57 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!npeer.kpnqwest.net!nreader1.kpnqwest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86465 In article <3B6A5656.A3E380C9@yahoo.com>, CBFalconer wrote: >Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >> >> On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:26:30 -0700 >> Charles Richmond wrote: >> >> CR> You know you're getting old when (YKYGOW)... >> >> Oh dear, I just made a full score and I thought I was one of the >> younger ones here :( I wish to call for an ammendment, >> >> YKYGOW these describe events you consider *recent*. >> >> CR> You remember when audio recordings had *grooves* instead of >> CR> pits to be read by a laser... >> CR> >> CR> Your first TV set had the horizontal and vertical hold adjustments >> CR> in an easily-accessable place... >> CR> >> CR> You remember when it was called a "transistor radio" instead of >> CR> just a radio... >> >> And one more, >> >> You groaned aloud when in 1987 the posters loudly proclaimed >> >> It *was* twenty years ago today ... > >A few more: > >You can clearly remember VE day > your reaction to Hiroshima. > the All-American 5. > Loctal. > gM in millimhos. > 2N404. > DTL and RTL > running boards and rumble seats. > FDR and HST > McCarthy and HUSAC And you remember where you were when Kennedy was shot. > >-- >Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) > (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) > mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) > > ###### From: johnf@panix.com (John Francis) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 3 Aug 2001 15:29:17 -0400 Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp. Lines: 11 Message-ID: <9keu2d$57i$1@panix3.panix.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 996866957 12279 166.84.0.228 (3 Aug 2001 19:29:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Aug 2001 19:29:17 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!panix!news.panix.com!panix3.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86396 In article , Morten Reistad wrote: > >And your new pocket camera has more storage than the first mainframe >you used. By several orders of magnitude ... The Atlas at Cambridge vs. a Canon Powershot G1. I've only got the 128Mb memory card, but you can put a 1Gb microdrive in the thing! ###### From: ic0cdfw00@ic24.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 21:02:37 +0100 Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> Reply-To: tony.lenton@physics.org NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-32-233.dialup.lineone.co.uk (213.123.32.233) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 996869101 4161952 213.123.32.233 (16 [88156]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!host213-123-32-233.dialup.lineone.co.UK!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86541 On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:14:57 GMT, mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) wrote: >And you remember the glory of the 029 punch (and the horrors of the 026). > Are you sure you got that the right way round? If you wern't an engineer then you could be forgiven. -- aml ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 03 Aug 01 10:43:03 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: <601.615T162T6433331@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010802223320.76dcbf7d.steveo@eircom.net> <3B6A5656.A3E380C9@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-677.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86561 In article <3B6A5656.A3E380C9@yahoo.com> cbfalconer@yahoo.com (CBFalconer) writes: >You can clearly remember VE day > your reaction to Hiroshima. Nope, can't quite go back that far. > the All-American 5. Which one: octal (12SK7/12SA7/12SQ7/50L6/35Z5) or mini (12BE6/12BA6/12AV6/50...damn/35W4)? > FDR and HST Which one: British Rail's High Speed Train or Canada's Harmonized Sales Tax (or Human Sexuality Tax if you're into parodies)? -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 03 Aug 01 10:30:50 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 31 Message-ID: <891.615T2526T6305831@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-676.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.kornet.net!nntp.kreonet.re.kr!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86562 In article solomontaibi@computer.org (Sol Taibi) writes: >j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) wrote in message >news:<3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com>... > >> You have ever owned a tube tester. (Extra points if you still do. >> I have a portable one sitting under my desk right now. ) >> >You remember the public tube tester at the hardware store. Yup. >You remember the Curta Calculator. We drooled over the ads in Scientific American but never actually saw one. >Your first electronic pocket calculator had a red LED So did your first electronic wristwatch. >display and sucked a 9 volt radio battery dry in a week. You had to press a button on the watch to see the time so it wouldn't suck its battery dry a lot faster than that. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: Maniac Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 00:32:04 +0128 Organization: Maniacs Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9kg1d9$agm$1@iac5.navix.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> Reply-To: Maniac@alltel.net NNTP-Posting-Host: h216-170-044-168.adsl.navix.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit X-Trace: iac5.navix.net 996903145 10774 216.170.44.168 (4 Aug 2001 05:32:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@navix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 2001 05:32:25 GMT User-Agent: KNode/0.5.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!uunet!lax.uu.net!news.navix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86544 J. Steven York wrote: > You have ever owned a tube tester. (Extra points if you still do. I > have a portable one sitting under my desk right now. ) Know that a slide rule had more uses than just drawing straight lines. ) I used to be able to use the slide rule faster than my classmates could punch up the numbers on their "state of the art 7 segment LED calculators". And speaking of calculators did anyone ever "check" the results of the early calculators to make sure that they weren't wrong? Now days with the reliance on computers does anyone really know how to add/subtract numbers or is my latest trip to the fast food joint just unusual? -- Maniac@alltel.net 40° 37' 9" N, 96° 57' 24" W A single tasking guy in multi tasking world. ###### From: Maniac Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 00:35:56 +0128 Organization: Maniacs Lines: 34 Message-ID: <9kg1kg$agm$2@iac5.navix.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> Reply-To: Maniac@alltel.net NNTP-Posting-Host: h216-170-044-168.adsl.navix.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit X-Trace: iac5.navix.net 996903376 10774 216.170.44.168 (4 Aug 2001 05:36:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@navix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 2001 05:36:16 GMT User-Agent: KNode/0.5.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!ash.uu.net!sac.uu.net!lax.uu.net!news.navix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86545 Morten Reistad wrote: > In article <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com>, > J. Steven York wrote: >>You remember saving (or rather, NOT saving) programs on audio >>cassettes. >> >>Adding a serial port to your computer meant the ability to hook up a >>surplus teletype. >> >>One word: BASIC >> >>You could tell a really ADVANCED printer, because it had lower case. >> >>You remember the excitement the first time you saw a REAL disk drive >>attached to a home computer (and not just the pictures in a magazine). >> >>Punch Cards. > > And you remember the glory of the 029 punch (and the horrors of the 026). > > (And all the wonderful (and some less wonderful) uses of chad. ) Chads? So that's what those dinglehoppers are called. ) We tried to use them as bedding for earthworms (night crawlers) but found out that you can't really keep damp. > And you consider TOPS20 a recent invention. > > And you programmed in Fortran66. (No strings; arithmetic ifs) > -- Maniac@alltel.net 40° 37' 9" N, 96° 57' 24" W A single tasking guy in multi tasking world. ###### Message-ID: <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:59:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.170.51 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 996883185 12.90.170.51 (Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:59:45 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:59:45 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86580 Joe Morris wrote: > > idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk (Dr Ivan D. Reid) writes: > > >Charles Richmond wrote: > > >>You remember when audio recordings had *grooves* instead of > >>pits to be read by a laser... > > > ...and they were just hill-'n'-dale rather than variations in > >two orthogonal directions. Extra points if you remember cactus spines > >or bamboo meedles. > > Or if you remember playing with the old crank Victrola in the attic > of your house, complete with the swivel-arm pickup and the little > tray where you kept extra needles...and it wasn't considered to be > a Valuable Antique That You Must Not Touch. But they weren't hill and dale, they were side to side modulated since long before even I was born. Hills and dales were added to get the orthogonal channel for stereo. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### Message-ID: <3B6B4EBC.1AF3A842@ev1.net> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:24:12 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010802223320.76dcbf7d.steveo@eircom.net> <3B6A5656.A3E380C9@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 996880838 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (3 Aug 2001 18:20:38 -0500) Lines: 53 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86574 Morten Reistad wrote: > > In article <3B6A5656.A3E380C9@yahoo.com>, > CBFalconer wrote: > >Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > >> > >> On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:26:30 -0700 > >> Charles Richmond wrote: > >> > >> CR> You know you're getting old when (YKYGOW)... > >> > >> Oh dear, I just made a full score and I thought I was one of the > >> younger ones here :( I wish to call for an ammendment, > >> > >> YKYGOW these describe events you consider *recent*. > >> > >> CR> You remember when audio recordings had *grooves* instead of > >> CR> pits to be read by a laser... > >> CR> > >> CR> Your first TV set had the horizontal and vertical hold adjustments > >> CR> in an easily-accessable place... > >> CR> > >> CR> You remember when it was called a "transistor radio" instead of > >> CR> just a radio... > >> > >> And one more, > >> > >> You groaned aloud when in 1987 the posters loudly proclaimed > >> > >> It *was* twenty years ago today ... > > > >A few more: > > > >You can clearly remember VE day > > your reaction to Hiroshima. > > the All-American 5. > > Loctal. > > gM in millimhos. > > 2N404. > > DTL and RTL > > running boards and rumble seats. > > FDR and HST > > McCarthy and HUSAC > > And you remember where you were when Kennedy was shot. > Which Kennedy??? Errmmm... Joe Jr. was killed in WWII...John F. was killed on 22-NOV-63. Robert was killed in 1968... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3B6B4F10.9B274D30@ev1.net> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:25:36 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 996880922 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (3 Aug 2001 18:22:02 -0500) Lines: 24 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86569 "Dr Ivan D. Reid" wrote: > > On Thu, 02 Aug 2001 23:43:12 -0400, Howard S Shubs > wrote in : > >In article <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com>, > > never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach) wrote: > > >> What was it called before there were transistors? > > >It was called a "radio". Later, they needed to distinguish the new transistor > >type from the older tube-based kind. > > And the number of transistors was important[1]! I recall at least > one model where the manufacturer used defective transistors as diodes, to > up the "count" displayed on the front. > There were *twelve* transistor models that had three or four transistors *not* connected at all... But the transisors were *there*, by gum, so they could count them... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3B6B4FAD.14697045@ev1.net> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:28:13 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 996881079 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (3 Aug 2001 18:24:39 -0500) Lines: 31 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86570 "J. Steven York" wrote: > > You remember saving (or rather, NOT saving) programs on audio > cassettes. > > Adding a serial port to your computer meant the ability to hook up a > surplus teletype. > > One word: BASIC > > You could tell a really ADVANCED printer, because it had lower case. > > You remember the excitement the first time you saw a REAL disk drive > attached to a home computer (and not just the pictures in a magazine). > > Punch Cards. > You might also add: Using Paper Tape... Using DecTape... Using a William's Tube... Listening to the memory drum as it came up to speed... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:29:48 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 996881174 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (3 Aug 2001 18:26:14 -0500) Lines: 13 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86572 Sol Taibi wrote: > > YKYGOW you know what the "carriage" as > in "carriage return" looked like. > And you knew what "pad characters" were for at the end of line of text...to give the carriage on the physical terminal time to do the carriage return... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3B6B5236.DDE75CFE@ev1.net> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:39:02 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 996881728 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (3 Aug 2001 18:35:28 -0500) Lines: 20 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86576 Sol Taibi wrote: > > j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) wrote in message news:<3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com>... > > You have ever owned a tube tester. (Extra points if you still do. I > > have a portable one sitting under my desk right now. ) > > > You remember the public tube tester at the hardware store. > > You remember the Curta Calculator. > > Your first electronic pocket calculator had a red LED > display and sucked a 9 volt radio battery dry in a week. > Or if you ever heard the word "hoot-nanny"...extra points if you actually know what it means... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: solomontaibi@computer.org (Sol Taibi) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 4 Aug 2001 00:58:55 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> <3B6B5236.DDE75CFE@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.179.163.85 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 996911935 29694 127.0.0.1 (4 Aug 2001 07:58:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 2001 07:58:55 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86567 Charles Richmond wrote in message news:<3B6B5236.DDE75CFE@ev1.net>... > Sol Taibi wrote: > > > > j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) wrote in message news:<3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com>... > > > You have ever owned a tube tester. (Extra points if you still do. I > > > have a portable one sitting under my desk right now. ) > > > > > You remember the public tube tester at the hardware store. > > > > You remember the Curta Calculator. > > > > Your first electronic pocket calculator had a red LED > > display and sucked a 9 volt radio battery dry in a week. > > > Or if you ever heard the word "hoot-nanny"...extra points if you > actually know what it means... In my universe, "hootenanny" has something (I won't say what at this point) to do with extreme left-wing politics (and I have a long white beard). What does it mean in your universe? ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 4 Aug 2001 09:08:30 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 15 Message-ID: <9kge2e$er6$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> <3B6B5236.DDE75CFE@ev1.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 996916110 15206 134.117.136.30 (4 Aug 2001 09:08:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 2001 09:08:30 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!209.30.0.50!nntp.flash.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86554 Sol Taibi (solomontaibi@computer.org) writes: > > In my universe, "hootenanny" has something (I won't say what > at this point) to do with extreme left-wing politics (and I > have a long white beard). You be one of those ZZ Top guys? > What does it mean in your universe? Lots of amateur musicians who can hum the tune "Walk right in, set right down, ... " and ending the session with "Where have all the flowers gone, long time passing?" ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 05 Aug 01 09:17:05 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <9kjcg0$cfu$2@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYG7xqKrrxnyJ422//irqTHeGNY72mtwh+xCEWVxCQ1c3U/kdTghE/O X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Aug 2001 12:00:00 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.netcologne.de!news.f.de.plusline.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-75 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86588 In article , dowe@krikkit.localdomain (Dowe Keller) wrote: >On 3 Aug 2001 09:26:23 -0700, Sol Taibi wrote: >>j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) wrote in message news:<3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com>... >>> You have ever owned a tube tester. (Extra points if you still do. I >>> have a portable one sitting under my desk right now. ) >>> >>You remember the public tube tester at the hardware store. >> >>You remember the Curta Calculator. > >O.K. this stuff sounds ancient > >>Your first electronic pocket calculator had a red LED >>display and sucked a 9 volt radio battery dry in a week. > >But I had one of these, and while it would fit in my pocket, it was a >*very* tight fit. At 33 (as of ~5:00pm today) I'm far from a card >carying member of the Old Farts Club. > Since I don't have card, therefore I'm not an Old Fart. whew! I was going to check the mirror for grey nose hairs. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:20:48 -0400 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> <9kh8c1$4grfp$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-452.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86599 In article <9kh8c1$4grfp$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de>, Roland Hutchinson wrote: > Early Edison disks were hill-and-dale. The Betamax of the 78-rpm era > (for sufficiently scattered values of 78). Which explains why you can't play 'em on a Victrola. I've seen it tried. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Organization: Rational Irrationalists Reply-To: jmshaffer@alltel.net Message-ID: <1btomtci73er4mv1g3c2dn9ehlr40ter0r@4ax.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> <9kh8c1$4grfp$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 11 X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:15:42 EDT Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:23:13 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e420r-chi2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86602 On Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:20:48 -0400, Howard S Shubs wrote: >> Early Edison disks were hill-and-dale. The Betamax of the 78-rpm era >> (for sufficiently scattered values of 78). > >Which explains why you can't play 'em on a Victrola. I've seen it tried. Last night on Antiques Roadshow I saw a phonograph that looked like a 78 but the spindle was about twice as wide so you had to buy all your disks from the same company. ###### Message-ID: <3B6C7B2E.AA8CB6D9@boutel.co.nz> From: Brian Boutel Organization: X X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:46:06 +1200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.144.148 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tsnz.net X-Trace: news02.tsnz.net 996965042 203.96.144.148 (Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:44:02 NZST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:44:02 NZST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!news.netcologne.de!skynet.be!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news02.tsnz.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86585 CBFalconer wrote: > > But they weren't hill and dale, they were side to side modulated > since long before even I was born. Hills and dales were added to > get the orthogonal channel for stereo. > To be more precise, the stereo coding had the side-to-side as the sum L+R and the hill-and-dale as the difference L-R. That way a mono pickup would play the sum, which was better than just playing one channel, and a stereo pickup would play a mono record correctly. In effect, L and R were modulations at 45 degrees to the vertical. --brian ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 01:23:38 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <996974618snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> <3B6C7B2E.AA8CB6D9@boutel.co.nz> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 997014126 mail2news:14285 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 13 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!shale.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86606 In article <3B6C7B2E.AA8CB6D9@boutel.co.nz> brian@boutel.co.nz "Brian Boutel" writes: > In effect, L and R were modulations at 45 degrees to the vertical. QPSK? -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: D_Jim Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 4 Aug 2001 18:41:50 -0700 Organization: Blue Moon Fizz Lines: 11 Message-ID: <9ki88u0sos@drn.newsguy.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> <9kh8c1$4grfp$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de> <1btomtci73er4mv1g3c2dn9ehlr40ter0r@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-840.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News v2.80 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86587 ... when you are talking about Buffalo Bob and someone standing nearby thinks you mean Buffalo Bill and his Wild West Show. JimP. -- djim55 atty datasync dotty com Disclaimer: Standard http://djim51.crosswinds.net/ http://www.crosswinds.net/~drivein/ drive-in movie theaters update August 2,2001 ###### From: dowe@krikkit.localdomain (Dowe Keller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.3pl4 (Linux) NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.169.219.77 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.169.219.77 Date: 4 Aug 2001 21:54:27 -0700 X-Trace: 4 Aug 2001 21:54:27 -0700, 206.169.219.77 Organization: news.sierratel.com Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!news.sierratel.com!dowe Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86582 On 3 Aug 2001 09:26:23 -0700, Sol Taibi wrote: >j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) wrote in message news:<3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com>... >> You have ever owned a tube tester. (Extra points if you still do. I >> have a portable one sitting under my desk right now. ) >> >You remember the public tube tester at the hardware store. > >You remember the Curta Calculator. O.K. this stuff sounds ancient >Your first electronic pocket calculator had a red LED >display and sucked a 9 volt radio battery dry in a week. But I had one of these, and while it would fit in my pocket, it was a *very* tight fit. At 33 (as of ~5:00pm today) I'm far from a card carying member of the Old Farts Club. -- dowe@sierratel.com Homepage: http://www.sierratel.com/dowe Project : http://freshmeat.net/projects/vsh ###### Lines: 10 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: bbreynolds@aol.comskipthis (Bruce B. Reynolds) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 05 Aug 2001 05:51:15 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: <20010805015115.21445.00001239@mb-mk.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!212.43.194.69!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86591 >You remember the public tube tester at the hardware store. > You remember building a Heathkit tube tester. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA -- Bruce B. Reynolds, Independent/Legacy Systems Consultant: Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA---Sweeping Up Behind Data Processing Dinosaurs ###### From: Hans-Christian Becker Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 23:43:38 -0700 Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 33 Message-ID: <040820012343386979%hcb@phc.chalmers.se> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 56-pppold-its.caltech.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: YA-NewsWatcher/5.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!hcb Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86595 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In article , Dowe Keller wrote: > >Your first electronic pocket calculator had a red LED > >display and sucked a 9 volt radio battery dry in a week. I had one too, and it did *all* of the four basic math operations. I remember the joy of finding out that it actually used the overflow "E" (or was it a "C"?) as a kind of carry flag, so that 999999 x 10 = C9.9999 999999 x 100 =C99.999 > But I had one of these, and while it would fit in my pocket, it was > a *very* tight fit. At 33 (as of ~5:00pm today) I'm far from a card > carying member of the Old Farts Club. (Congratulations!) At 30.5, neither am I, but the ignorance about what preceded the "PC" kind of makes me at least a hangaround... Best regards, Hans-Christian (My dad's TI-30 conserved energy by blanking the display and showing a horisontally scrolling '-'. It took a while to figure *that* out!) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBO2zrESiOQgrDm3n7EQLFEgCfak3kzQ+2f6FQx5GyhX3ATlZW62kAn3hK i9m/x2S+3NFMl4c1B9A7jlsG =CSLU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ###### From: Hans-Christian Becker Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 23:58:29 -0700 Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 17 Message-ID: <040820012358299257%hcb@phc.chalmers.se> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> <040820012343386979%hcb@phc.chalmers.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: 56-pppold-its.caltech.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: YA-NewsWatcher/5.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.uchicago.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!hcb Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86594 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > (Congratulations!) At 30.5, neither am I, but the ignorance about > what preceded the "PC" kind of makes me at least a hangaround... I guess I meant to say "the ignorance of today's young[er] people" Hans-Christian (Thinking before speaking is like wiping your behind before crapping.) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBO2zujCiOQgrDm3n7EQKr2QCgkFRdLXhnRx+EbMFAS1+RRP18eTMAoNWa 5YDm7bxClX8wA6rb8bsyFIfJ =el5T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ###### Message-ID: <3B6CFC42.2259F885@ev1.net> Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 00:56:51 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> <9kh8c1$4grfp$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 996990796 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (5 Aug 2001 00:53:16 -0500) Lines: 18 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86601 Howard S Shubs wrote: > > In article <9kh8c1$4grfp$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de>, > Roland Hutchinson wrote: > > > Early Edison disks were hill-and-dale. The Betamax of the 78-rpm era > > (for sufficiently scattered values of 78). > > Which explains why you can't play 'em on a Victrola. I've seen it tried. > Another reason may be that the Edison record players moved the arm using a screw mechanism...the arm did *not* use the grooves in the record to move down... (IIRC) -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: "Don Chiasson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> <3B6C7B2E.AA8CB6D9@boutel.co.nz> <996974618snz@dsl.co.uk> Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Lines: 28 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 13:03:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.42.241.65 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news3.rdc1.on.home.com 997016623 24.42.241.65 (Sun, 05 Aug 2001 06:03:43 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 06:03:43 PDT Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news3.rdc1.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86600 "Brian {Hamilton Kelly}" wrote in message news:996974618snz@dsl.co.uk... > In article <3B6C7B2E.AA8CB6D9@boutel.co.nz> > brian@boutel.co.nz "Brian Boutel" writes: > > > In effect, L and R were modulations at 45 degrees > > to the vertical. > > QPSK? > = Quadrature Phase Shift Keying Nothing that complicated. The sensors connected to the needle were magnetic (sensing motion) or piezoelectric (sensing loading) with the sensors mounted at 45 degrees to the vertical. One gave left channel, the other gave right. A mono cartridge sensed only left-right, i.e. the sum of the two channels. If you were to have a vertical sensor, you would get (I think - my vectors are weak at this time of morning) the difference. Gave backward computability so you could play mono records on a stereo and stereo records on a mono system. Don e-mail: it's not not, it's hot. ###### Message-ID: <3B6D81EA.CA39162E@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com> <3B6B4F10.9B274D30@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 17:36:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.123.155 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 997032979 168.191.123.155 (Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:36:19 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:36:19 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:33:48 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86608 Charles Richmond wrote: > > And the number of transistors was important[1]! I recall at least > > one model where the manufacturer used defective transistors as diodes, to > > up the "count" displayed on the front. > > > There were *twelve* transistor models that had three or four transistors > *not* connected at all... But the transisors were *there*, by gum, so > they could count them... Spares for when the connected ones "burned out".......... Chris AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ ###### Message-ID: <3B6D8612.8E8909DE@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 54 Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 17:54:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.123.155 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 997034047 168.191.123.155 (Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:54:07 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:54:07 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:51:36 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86607 "J. Steven York" wrote: > You remember saving (or rather, NOT saving) programs on audio > cassettes. I never had any problems with Kansas City Standard > Adding a serial port to your computer meant the ability to hook up a > surplus teletype. Yes or in my case a borrowed 33 > One word: BASIC Nah, that was for wimps and gamers, real hobby computer users programmed in hand assembled machine code (for a couple of years my machine did not have enough memory to run the assembler.) > You could tell a really ADVANCED printer, because it had lower case. And you wondered about the need for lower case as upper case had been all you had needed for years. > You remember the excitement the first time you saw a REAL disk drive > attached to a home computer (and not just the pictures in a magazine). Having used them at work for years, there was no excitement (now, on the other hand, a DECtape on a micro would have caused excitement :-) > Punch Cards. As I've stated in this NG before, I have quite a stash of blank punch cards from the mid 60's a few of which I use as note cards. When I first started doing this all the time, maybe 15 years ago or so, people would instantly recognize them as such and comment on them. YKY truly GOW people see them in your pocket and don't notice or even more commonly don't recognize what they are................... > >jchausler wrote: > >> > >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > >> > >> You know you're getting old when all the people you looked up to > >> and admired in your youth are dead. > >> Chris AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 08 Aug 01 10:48:32 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 30 Message-ID: <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbsE5NvMgxgRoY9DMmOMhGvezX8hPcUCQ/QzWMeWpBn/t+XMknse/Kp X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Aug 2001 13:31:55 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-96 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86654 In article , Alexandre Pechtchanski wrote: >On 7 Aug 2001 12:36:59 GMT, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >[ snip ] > >>...you've still got ink on your hands from changing printer ribbons >>because someone had swiped the plastic gloves that came packed with >>new ribbons. > >Plastic gloves! You had it soft! I first discovered >plastic gloves packed with printer ribbon (and printer >ribbons with non-inked leaders) on LP-11. Before >that I just accepted inked hands as a price for changing >printer ribbon. That's not nice if you immediately had to hang a magtape or put in a new box of printer paper. Our operators almost kept The Gloves under lock and key. There was a niche in the printer that most people didn't see that could hold the used gloves for the next time the printer ribbon was reversed. Shops did use the same ribbon over and over again...didn't they? If we had a print request that needed a new ribbon, the operators would put in the new ribbon, do the print job, take the new ribbon out, put the old one back in. A ribbon didn't get thrown away until it became holey. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 07 Aug 01 10:21:06 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 16 Message-ID: <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZ0ijdW5ZGS2oUlYu4dQr639a/8MixAAtv0p7Qz9sco6su2MgR9mqoP X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Aug 2001 13:04:17 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-222 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86663 In article <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >....you used a burster. I remember using one of those. It went away when the printer was on-line. PRINT/COPY:5 I was patting myself on the back that I was a youngster among these old farts. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 08 Aug 01 10:42:09 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 32 Message-ID: <9krekc$137$16@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYXj6DkAgemoqoVxC0Js50uHqJTjcGV+QI0rPU//tKBbIMK1WBU5RYv X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Aug 2001 13:25:32 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-96 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86670 In article , Marco S Hyman wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >> >....you used a burster. >> >> I remember using one of those. It went away when the printer >> was on-line. PRINT/COPY:5 > >You're thinking of that thing that pulled the carbons out of multipart >paper. Yes. Have I suffered another brain fart? What was it called then? > ...The burster was the machine that turned continuous feed paper >into individual sheets. No, no. That was no machine; it was me!!!! > ... Adjust it wrong and you'd find out exactly >how strong the perforations were -- the paper would tear everyplace >else. There was really a piece of gear that could to this? Wow! I could have saved me from a lot of pain due to paper cuts. I finally figured out that a pencil worked just as well as my finger. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 16:19:25 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <997028365snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> <3B6C7B2E.AA8CB6D9@boutel.co.nz> <996974618snz@dsl.co.uk> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 997045091 mail2news:17758 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 37 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86799 In article don_chiasson@notmail.com "Don Chiasson" writes: > > "Brian {Hamilton Kelly}" wrote in message > news:996974618snz@dsl.co.uk... > > In article <3B6C7B2E.AA8CB6D9@boutel.co.nz> > > brian@boutel.co.nz "Brian Boutel" writes: > > > > > In effect, L and R were modulations at 45 degrees > > > to the vertical. > > > > QPSK? > > > = Quadrature Phase Shift Keying > Nothing that complicated. The sensors connected > to the needle were magnetic (sensing motion) or > piezoelectric (sensing loading) with the sensors mounted > at 45 degrees to the vertical. One gave left channel, the other > gave right. A mono cartridge sensed only left-right, i.e. the > sum of the two channels. If you were to have a vertical sensor, > you would get (I think - my vectors are weak at this time > of morning) the difference. Gave backward computability > so you could play mono records on a stereo and stereo > records on a mono system. I knew that, actually; should have added a smiley. (I built myself a stereo cartridge from two mono ones back in about 1958, following plans that were in a Popular Electronics of the time.) -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: jata@jata-mj.net (Julian Thomas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 17:05:06 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <3b6db522$9$wg$mr2ice@news.fltg.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <9kea3d$g5h$1@top.mitre.org> X-Newsreader: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v2.27/27 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86709 In <9kea3d$g5h$1@top.mitre.org>, on 08/03/01 at 01:48 PM, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) said: >You remember proudly showing off your computer center's modem pool: racks >and racks of Bell 103A2 modems (300 baud! Wow!), each with its own >handset and control head in addition to the modem itself. and each with its own plugin transformer (not yet known as wall warts). -- Julian Thomas: jt . jt-mj @ net http://jt-mj.net remove letter a for email (or switch . and @) In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State! Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc http://www.possi.org -- -- 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. ###### From: jata@jata-mj.net (Julian Thomas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 17:07:31 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <3b6db5af$10$wg$mr2ice@news.fltg.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3B6B4FAD.14697045@ev1.net> X-Newsreader: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v2.27/27 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.netcologne.de!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86726 In <3B6B4FAD.14697045@ev1.net>, on 08/03/01 at 06:28 PM, Charles Richmond said: >Listening to the memory drum as it came up to speed... or watching a Univac I mercury delay line as it got up to operating temperature.... -- Julian Thomas: jt . jt-mj @ net http://jt-mj.net remove letter a for email (or switch . and @) In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State! Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc http://www.possi.org -- -- Why does the hardware keep getting faster, and the software slower? ###### From: Giles Todd Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 01:00:12 +0200 Organization: None Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> <9kh8c1$4grfp$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de> <1btomtci73er4mv1g3c2dn9ehlr40ter0r@4ax.com> Reply-To: gt@at-dot.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lart.bofh.org (212.136.214.115) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 997056073 5139147 212.136.214.115 (16 [65249]) X-Orig-Path: private!nobody Cancel-Lock: sha1:qnOS8TWPYlrspp5h1vlObkeMn/M= X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 X-No-Archive: yes X-NFilter: 1.2.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!lart.bofh.ORG!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86808 On Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:23:13 -0400, "Jim Shaffer, Jr." wrote: > Last night on Antiques Roadshow I saw a phonograph that looked like a 78 but the > spindle was about twice as wide so you had to buy all your disks from the same > company. Microƒoft? Giles. ###### From: j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 02:11:27 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: <3b76fc0d.751212191@enews.newsguy.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3B6D8612.8E8909DE@earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-844.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86713 Not that you used it, just that you REMEMBER it. The day (and admittedly, this was well into the personal computer era when it started) that every computer shipped with some version of BASIC is pretty much gone. I think GWBasic or QBasic or something is still hidden on the Windows 98 CD somewhere if you know where to look for it, but I have no idea about later versions. Even MS application macro-languages have dumped their basic-like features. On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 17:54:07 GMT, jchausler wrote: >> One word: BASIC > >Nah, that was for wimps and gamers, real hobby computer users >programmed in hand assembled machine code (for a couple of >years my machine did not have enough memory to run the >assembler.) J. Steven York - www.sff.net/people/j-steven-york - Writer Generation X Novels: Crossroads, Genogoths Bolo, Old Guard (Now in stores, from Baen Books) ###### Message-ID: <3B6E1674.3D0C1232@primeline.net> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 00:00:52 -0400 From: "Gary Tait, Very Real" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010802223320.76dcbf7d.steveo@eircom.net> <3B6A5656.A3E380C9@yahoo.com> <601.615T162T6433331@nowhere.in.particular> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: Virginia.BMTS.Com!unknown@nas3-ip-159.kac.primeline.net X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.183.128.12 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 997069709 216.183.128.12 (5 Aug 2001 22:48:29 -0500) Lines: 40 X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 80,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!feed.textport.net!local-out2.newsfeeds.com!corp.newsgroups.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86633 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > In article <3B6A5656.A3E380C9@yahoo.com> cbfalconer@yahoo.com > (CBFalconer) writes: > > >You can clearly remember VE day > > your reaction to Hiroshima. > > Nope, can't quite go back that far. > > > the All-American 5. > > Which one: octal (12SK7/12SA7/12SQ7/50L6/35Z5) > or mini (12BE6/12BA6/12AV6/50...damn/35W4)? > 50C5 Or the record player with a 25EH5 tube amplifier. > > FDR and HST > > Which one: British Rail's High Speed Train or Canada's Harmonized > Sales Tax (or Human Sexuality Tax if you're into parodies)? > > -- > cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) > I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. -- Gary Tait,VE3VBF Homepage: http://www.primeline.net/~tait **** Do not Email back me newsgroup responses, just post them. **** ---- Replace x with e , and y to a to email me, if required ---- -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ###### Message-ID: <3B6E1784.4DA95F60@primeline.net> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 00:05:24 -0400 From: "Gary Tait, Very Real" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: Virginia.BMTS.Com!unknown@nas3-ip-159.kac.primeline.net X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.183.128.12 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 997069980 216.183.128.12 (5 Aug 2001 22:53:00 -0500) Lines: 47 X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 80,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!out.nntp.be!propagator-dallas!news-in-dallas.newsfeeds.com!corp.newsgroups.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86641 Joe Morris wrote: > > idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk (Dr Ivan D. Reid) writes: > > >Charles Richmond wrote: > > >>You remember when audio recordings had *grooves* instead of > >>pits to be read by a laser... > > > ...and they were just hill-'n'-dale rather than variations in > >two orthogonal directions. Extra points if you remember cactus spines > >or bamboo meedles. > > Or if you remember playing with the old crank Victrola in the attic > of your house, complete with the swivel-arm pickup and the little > tray where you kept extra needles...and it wasn't considered to be > a Valuable Antique That You Must Not Touch. > > >>Your first TV set had the horizontal and vertical hold adjustments > >>in an easily-accessable place... > > > ...and was black-and-white! > > ...and went off the air each night to the tune of the National Anthem > (at least in the US). This results in numerous jokes, cartoons, and > movie scenes of a TV screen changing from a picture of a flag to pure > noise, a concept that probably is totally lost on the Young Whippersnappers > who have come to expect 7x24 broadcasting. The CBC in Canada still does it (at least in rural locations) . The local non CBC station used to do it not too many years ago. > Joe Morris (who for a while routinely shut down a TV station each > weekday night at 10:00 PM) -- Gary Tait,VE3VBF Homepage: http://www.primeline.net/~tait **** Do not Email back me newsgroup responses, just post them. **** ---- Replace x with e , and y to a to email me, if required ---- -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ###### From: solomontaibi@computer.org (Sol Taibi) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 5 Aug 2001 21:08:24 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> <3B6B5236.DDE75CFE@ev1.net> <9kge2e$er6$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.179.170.200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 997070904 7631 127.0.0.1 (6 Aug 2001 04:08:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Aug 2001 04:08:24 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86768 ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) wrote in message news:<9kge2e$er6$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>... > Sol Taibi (solomontaibi@computer.org) writes: > > > > In my universe, "hootenanny" has something (I won't say what > > at this point) to do with extreme left-wing politics (and I > > have a long white beard). > > You be one of those ZZ Top guys? > > > What does it mean in your universe? > > Lots of amateur musicians who can hum the tune > "Walk right in, set right down, ... " > and ending the session with > "Where have all the flowers gone, long time passing?" Young whippersnapper! It may have evolved into that, but at one time the only people who had hootenannies were either geniunely from this hills or else Communists. ###### From: never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 6 Aug 2001 16:14:38 GMT Organization: A small notepad underneath my in box Lines: 17 Message-ID: <9kmfpe$qnl$1@news.panix.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix1.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 997114478 27381 166.84.0.226 (6 Aug 2001 16:14:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Aug 2001 16:14:38 GMT X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86666 In article <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >Sol Taibi wrote: >> >> YKYGOW you know what the "carriage" as >> in "carriage return" looked like. >> >And you knew what "pad characters" were for at the end of line >of text...to give the carriage on the physical terminal time >to do the carriage return... You found that the low order 8 bits of an instruction were 15(8) so you used that as a carriage return to save space. -- Every little picofarad has a nanohenry all its own. -- Don Vonada ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:27:54 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 14 Message-ID: <20010806202754.700f058e.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com> <3B6B4F10.9B274D30@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p0921.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997125713 30673 194.134.202.158 (6 Aug 2001 19:21:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:21:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86731 On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:25:36 -0700 Charles Richmond wrote: CR> There were *twelve* transistor models that had three or four transistors CR> *not* connected at all... But the transisors were *there*, by gum, so CR> they could count them... You may now attempt to count the transistors in a modern PLL tuner, a scanning electron microscope may prove helpful. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### Message-ID: <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> From: freddy1X Reply-To: freddy1X Organization: IndyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04C-IndyNet (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> <9kmfpe$qnl$1@news.panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 52 Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 19:12:25 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.183.70.233 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onemain.com X-Trace: nntp3.onemain.com 997143215 209.183.70.233 (Mon, 06 Aug 2001 20:13:35 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 20:13:35 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!nntp3.onemain.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86785 Michael Roach wrote: > > Charles Richmond wrote: > >Sol Taibi wrote: > >> > >> YKYGOW you know what the "carriage" as > >> in "carriage return" looked like. > >> > >And you knew what "pad characters" were for at the end of line > >of text...to give the carriage on the physical terminal time > >to do the carriage return... > > You found that the low order 8 bits of an instruction were 15(8) so you > used that as a carriage return to save space. > -- Yery ugly practice. I've seen the "insides" of the Tandy( translation: Microsloth ) ROM. ... you've had printers hooked up to computers that couldn't keep up with the print rate. ... interfacing a printer meant adding your own integrated circuits on to the logic board and/or changing the connector. ... you've used a monochrome screen display with burn-in. ... extra points if you could read that burn-in with the power off. ... double bonus if the burnt image has migrated across the screen because of drift in the deflection circuits. ... if you have ever tried to operate a processor while it's integral display is conked-out. ... you knew the log-in sequence well enough to make the previous possible. ... you've operated a terminal with a postage stamp sized display because something blew in the deflection circuit. -- if rash occurs, discontinue use /\>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\/ /\ I may be demented \/ /\ but I'm not crazy! \/ /\<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<\/ * SPAyM trap: there is no X in my address * || attatch FLAME here || \/ \/ X ###### From: Mike Swaim Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> <9kmfpe$qnl$1@news.panix.com> <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> User-Agent: tin/1.4.1-19991201 ("Polish") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.19pre17-idepci (i686)) Lines: 21 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:42:36 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-QP3g+7bpHJohlmBsqv3F+SVA/CzfiBj0VnzGSnZkt2xGJHCAk2oNFX9VNcjL18pAWHSkzmPH5XsGSKo!nZ0K8Qsbmka7pticiTKmkfJLm+SLPb64qkNnEd9vQLf1PKncN2hs4pEfbqYrnO/ArekegL2l9S6G X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 03:42:36 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!news.voicenet.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86727 freddy1X wrote: > ... if you have ever tried to operate a processor while it's integral > display is conked-out. > ... you knew the log-in sequence well enough to make the previous > possible. A former roomate of mine had a Mac portable and an external monitor. He configured it so the external monitor's display would be logically above the built in display. Then he took it on a trip. He was able to open the apple menu, go to the control panel, and reset it to only use the built in display, while the monitor the computer thought it was displaying all this on was sitting in our living room. -- Mike Swaim, Avatar of Chaos: Disclaimer: I sometimes lie Home: swaim at nol * net Quote: "Boingie"^4 Y, W & D ###### From: john.cc@nospam.europlacer.co.uk (John Carlyle-Clarke) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:01:18 +0000 Organization: Europlacer Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3B6D8612.8E8909DE@earthlink.net> <3b76fc0d.751212191@enews.newsguy.com> User-Agent: Xnews/4.01.30 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 35 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.online.be!sn-uk-xit-01!sn-uk-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.co.uk!pc69.comconnect!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86809 j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) wrote in <3b76fc0d.751212191@enews.newsguy.com>: >Not that you used it, just that you REMEMBER it. The day (and >admittedly, this was well into the personal computer era when it >started) that every computer shipped with some version of BASIC is >pretty much gone. I think GWBasic or QBasic or something is still >hidden on the Windows 98 CD somewhere if you know where to look for >it, but I have no idea about later versions. Even MS application >macro-languages have dumped their basic-like features. > >On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 17:54:07 GMT, jchausler >wrote: > >>> One word: BASIC >> >>Nah, that was for wimps and gamers, real hobby computer users >>programmed in hand assembled machine code (for a couple of >>years my machine did not have enough memory to run the >>assembler.) > I'm not so sure about that. MS application macro languages are all Visual Basic in disguise. And you can fire up VB, create on .BAS module and run the following: sub main() 10 debug.print "Hello"; 20 goto 10 end sub (By the way I don't suggest it. It locks up VB and you have to terminate it.) ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 7 Aug 2001 12:36:59 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 23 Message-ID: <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997187819 26780 128.29.251.13 (7 Aug 2001 12:36:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Aug 2001 12:36:59 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86635 ...you recall (with no fond memories) having to argue with corporate management that the organization needed a computer -- a necessary evil since the cost of almost any computer was large enough to make a visible presence on the annual budget. It didn't matter if you were a Large Multinational Corporation or a small school. ...you recall when the mainframe system you were once hired full-time to support got its first disk drives...and each of the removable media packs held **SEVEN MEGABYTES**!!! WOW!!! ...you recall when third-party memory sales reps handed out vials of ferrite cores as part of their sales pitches. ...you still have two or three UARCO form rulers, and recall discovering how useful they could be to open locked file cabinets. ...you used a burster. ...you've still got ink on your hands from changing printer ribbons because someone had swiped the plastic gloves that came packed with new ribbons. Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 7 Aug 2001 12:44:04 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 15 Message-ID: <9konqk$q9r$1@top.mitre.org> References: <20010805015115.21445.00001239@mb-mk.aol.com> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997188244 26939 128.29.251.13 (7 Aug 2001 12:44:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Aug 2001 12:44:04 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86642 bbreynolds@aol.comskipthis (Bruce B. Reynolds) writes: >>You remember the public tube tester at the hardware store. >> >You remember building a Heathkit tube tester. ...you remember waxing nostalgic at reading the obituary for Heathkits that was published by the IEEE when the kits-making part of the company was finally closed. ...or you recall when Heath was in its original business model -- selling WWII surplus. Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 7 Aug 2001 12:53:00 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 15 Message-ID: <9koobc$qfd$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> <3B6C7B2E.AA8CB6D9@boutel.co.nz> <996974618snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997188780 27117 128.29.251.13 (7 Aug 2001 12:53:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Aug 2001 12:53:00 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86645 "Don Chiasson" writes: > Gave backward computability >so you could play mono records on a stereo and stereo >records on a mono system. ...but you could do this without damaging the record only if the cartridge was designed to allow the needle freedom to move in the vertical plane; without this ability the needle would erode the groove walls when the L and R signals caused the walls to move closer together. When stereo records started to become common stereo cartridges appeared in many mono systems (with L+R outputs strapped together) to allow stereo records to be used safely. Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 7 Aug 2001 12:56:46 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 14 Message-ID: <9kooie$qg1$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3B6D8612.8E8909DE@earthlink.net> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997189006 27137 128.29.251.13 (7 Aug 2001 12:56:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Aug 2001 12:56:46 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86634 jchausler writes: >As I've stated in this NG before, I have quite a stash of blank punch >cards from the mid 60's a few of which I use as note cards. When >I first started doing this all the time, maybe 15 years ago or so, people >would instantly recognize them as such and comment on them. >YKY truly GOW people see them in your pocket and don't notice >or even more commonly don't recognize what they are................... I have somewhat the same situation -- except that it's the license plate on my motorcycle: VM-HPO. It's fun sometimes to find someone who understands the reference. Joe Morris ###### From: never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 7 Aug 2001 14:23:32 GMT Organization: A small notepad underneath my in box Lines: 60 Message-ID: <9kotl4$8v2$1@news.panix.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> <9kmfpe$qnl$1@news.panix.com> <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 997194212 9186 166.84.0.228 (7 Aug 2001 14:23:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Aug 2001 14:23:32 GMT X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86639 In article <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net>, freddy1X wrote: >Michael Roach wrote: >> >> You found that the low order 8 bits of an instruction were 15(8) so you >> used that as a carriage return to save space. >> -- > >Yery ugly practice. I've seen the "insides" of the Tandy( translation: >Microsloth ) ROM. Sometimes you did what you had to do because you ran out of core. In this case I wrote a routine that was exactly 129 12-bit words long once I optimized it as best I could. The sweet spot on the pdp-8 was 128 words, or one page. I found the bit pattern I needed in an instruction and used it to make the routine exactly one page long. Not only that but it was relocatable as well, not easy on a pdp-8. It also worked stand-alone, in OS-8, and in TSS-8. > >... you've had printers hooked up to computers that couldn't keep up >with the print rate. > >... interfacing a printer meant adding your own integrated circuits on >to the logic board and/or changing the connector. On my first Imsai I hacked the Northstar OS to print to the printer instead of displaying on the screen when switch 8 was a 1. >... you've used a monochrome screen display with burn-in. > >... extra points if you could read that burn-in with the power off. > >... double bonus if the burnt image has migrated across the screen >because of drift in the deflection circuits. All of the above on an ATM machine around the corner from my parent's house. I've seen it others bsod as well. No ATM's with the bsod burned in yet 8^) >... if you have ever tried to operate a processor while it's integral >display is conked-out. Or even if it hasn't ... >... you knew the log-in sequence well enough to make the previous >possible. ... many here have at one time or another memorized keying in the boot loader for their machines. (Magic locations or rom addresses don't count.) >... you've operated a terminal with a postage stamp sized display >because something blew in the deflection circuit. You didn't have to wait for blown deflection circuits with an Osborne 1! -- Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. -- W. C. Fields ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 7 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:12:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.213.74.25 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 997197133 141.213.74.25 (Tue, 07 Aug 2001 11:12:13 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 11:12:13 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86738 In article <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org>, Joe Morris wrote: >...you used a burster. Whassa burster? -- Sergej Roytman ###### Message-ID: <3B700F0E.7CE50241@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <20010805015115.21445.00001239@mb-mk.aol.com> <9konqk$q9r$1@top.mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:59:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.170.134 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 997199983 12.90.170.134 (Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:59:43 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:59:43 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86818 Joe Morris wrote: > > bbreynolds@aol.comskipthis (Bruce B. Reynolds) writes: > > >>You remember the public tube tester at the hardware store. > >> > > >You remember building a Heathkit tube tester. > > ...you remember waxing nostalgic at reading the obituary for Heathkits > that was published by the IEEE when the kits-making part of the company > was finally closed. > > ...or you recall when Heath was in its original business model -- selling > WWII surplus. You remember the Williamson amplifier, and winding the output transformer. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### From: Alexandre Pechtchanski Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Organization: Rockefeller University Hospital (GCRC), New York Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 12:29:42 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.85.24.56 X-Trace: rockyd.rockefeller.edu 997201845 129.85.24.56 (Tue, 07 Aug 2001 12:30:45 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 12:30:45 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!rockyd.rockefeller.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86787 On 7 Aug 2001 12:36:59 GMT, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: [ snip ] >...you've still got ink on your hands from changing printer ribbons >because someone had swiped the plastic gloves that came packed with >new ribbons. Plastic gloves! You had it soft! I first discovered plastic gloves packed with printer ribbon (and printer ribbons with non-inked leaders) on LP-11. Before that I just accepted inked hands as a price for changing printer ribbon. -- [ When replying, remove *'s from address ] Alexandre Pechtchanski, Systems Manager, RUH, NY ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 17:38:40 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <997205920snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 997210298 mail2news:8556 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 35 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!shale.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86797 In article ftit@engin.umich.edu "Sergej Roytman" writes: > In article <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org>, Joe Morris wrote: > >...you used a burster. > > Whassa burster? A wonderful piece of forms handling machinery. It would take a stack of fan-folded line-printer paper which would be fed into it in a continuous length and, through the expedient of having rollers in the feed-path which ran at differing speeds, cause the inter-sheet perforations to be subjected to sufficient force that the sheets would tear apart --- if one was lucky, this would happen along those perforations :-) The resultant stack of paper was therefore no longer fan-folded and could be filed in binders, or sent out to non-computer-folk for them to read. (Presumably it was thought that PHBs were beyond the task of flipping through fan-fold.) There were also decollators, which separated the sheets of a multi-part form; the ones that worked with separate carbon interleave (rather than NCR paper) even wound up the separated carbon paper onto a roll for convenient disposal. Trimmers would remove the feed perforations from each side of the printout (this in the days before paper was made with "microperforations" to facilitate the removal of those side strips, by hand if necessary. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: Frank McConnell Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 07 Aug 2001 10:44:23 -0700 Organization: Reanimators Lines: 58 Message-ID: <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: daemonweed.reanimators.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: daemonweed.reanimators.org 997206263 42285 192.168.1.2 (7 Aug 2001 17:44:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@reanimators.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Aug 2001 17:44:23 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!news.kjsl.com!news.reanimators.org!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86772 ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: > In article <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org>, Joe Morris > wrote: > >...you used a burster. Thanks Joe, now I feel old because I haven't worked at a place with a burster or a decollator in over a decade. > Whassa burster? A device for post-processing printed output on fanfold paper. You know how fanfold paper is perforated at the folds? The burster takes a stack of fanfold and tears it apart at the perforations, yielding a stack of loose sheets. Well, that is what it does if all goes well, anyway. It often also has trimmers that can be set to trim the margins as the sheets go through, in order to remove the strip with the feed holes. Thus does a fanfold print job become suitable for stuffing into envelopes and mailing. The decollator is a device for pulling apart multi-part forms. Feed it multi-part fanfold, and it will yield stacks of fanfold, and even spool up the carbon paper for easy if somewhat messy disposal. (Grab a set of gloves from a ribbon box.) Again, that is what it does if all goes well, which it sometimes didn't. I think I put the fear of catastrophe in some folks once by walking away from the decollator while it was churning through three-part small at full speed. ... Somewhere else in the quoted article, Joe wrote: > >...you recall when the mainframe system you were once hired full-time > >to support got its first disk drives...and each of the removable > >media packs held **SEVEN MEGABYTES**!!! WOW!!! In, hmm, 1982, I was a teenage second-shift operator. The place where I was working at the time had taken delivery of an HP 7933 disc drive, a 404 MB kinda-sorta-fixed-pack drive. It wasn't yet installed, but I looked at it and, considering that it was about the same physical size as the 7920 and 7925 disc drives (removable-pack 50 MB and 120? MB, respectively), I was thinking something along the lines of "Wow, it's so big!" In mid-1995, I was showing a not-quite-fresh-off-the-boat twentysomething hire around a computer room at The Wollongong Group. I showed him the HP3000 series 58, and its 7935 disc drive -- same idea as the 7933 but actually supported the notion of removing the pack. When I explained that it was a 404MB disc drive, he exclaimed "Wow, it's so big!" Right about then, I knew I was getting old. -Frank McConnell ###### From: Marco S Hyman Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 07 Aug 2001 11:00:11 -0700 Organization: S.N.A.F.U. -- http://www.snafu.org/ Lines: 14 Sender: marc@hana.snafu.org Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: hana.snafu.org (64.174.80.154) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 997208226 6149832 64.174.80.154 (16 [97260]) X-Orig-Path: hana.snafu.org!nobody X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!hana.snafu.ORG!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86665 jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >....you used a burster. > > I remember using one of those. It went away when the printer > was on-line. PRINT/COPY:5 You're thinking of that thing that pulled the carbons out of multipart paper. The burster was the machine that turned continuous feed paper into individual sheets. Adjust it wrong and you'd find out exactly how strong the perforations were -- the paper would tear everyplace else. // marc ###### From: "Don Chiasson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> <9kmfpe$qnl$1@news.panix.com> <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 18:27:20 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.42.241.65 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news3.rdc1.on.home.com 997208840 24.42.241.65 (Tue, 07 Aug 2001 11:27:20 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 11:27:20 PDT Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news3.rdc1.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86754 "freddy1X" wrote in message news:3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net... > > ... interfacing a printer meant adding your own integrated > circuits on to the logic board and/or changing the connector. > On an instrumentation minicomputer with no serial interface but a digital to analogue converter, I wrote a program with a tight timing loop to drive the D/A output +/- 5 volts and emulate a serial line for a printer. Of course, I had to make a cable with a BNC (coax) connector on one end and 25 pin connector on the other. Can't remember the brand of printer: 132 column with one dot hammer per print position. The row of hammers oscillated back and forth to get the horizontal dots and the paper moved incrementally for the vertical. Thus, it was a line printer, one entire line at a time. Don e-mail: it;s not not, it's hot. ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 11:41:28 -0700 Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> <9kmfpe$qnl$1@news.panix.com> <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: il0502a-dhcp38.apple.com X-Trace: news.apple.com 997209684 14617 17.205.24.38 (7 Aug 2001 18:41:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.apple.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Aug 2001 18:41:24 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!forum.apple.com!news.apple.com!il0502a-dhcp38.apple.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86739 In article , "Don Chiasson" wrote: > Can't remember the brand of printer: 132 column with one > dot hammer per print position. The row of hammers oscillated > back and forth to get the horizontal dots and the paper moved > incrementally for the vertical. Printronix "P" series (150, 300, 600, from memory) They are incredible static charge generators, with many field falures in the midwest during mid-winter (when the humidity gets VERY low) until they added a carbon static discharge brush in the output paper path. ###### Message-ID: <3B705075.388A9F65@ev1.net> Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:32:53 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997208956 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (7 Aug 2001 13:29:16 -0500) Lines: 13 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86777 > On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:27:53, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: > > > ....and went off the air each night to the tune of the National Anthem > Some broadcast channels in the U.S. *still* sign off with the National Anthem. The Air Force distributes this nice film with the A.F. choir singing the National Anthem while you see an F-16 flying along the coast and up some impressive valleys and rock formations... Beautiful!!! -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: "John Homes" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:34:33 +1200 Organization: EDS (New Zealand) Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9kpmnn$2ct$1@hermes.nz.eds.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <997205920snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: dhcp-134-251-160-231.dhcp.nz.eds.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lmu.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!203.50.2.79!intgwlon.nntp.telstra.net!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news.eds.co.nz!news.nz.eds.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86701 "Brian {Hamilton Kelly}" wrote in message news:997205920snz@dsl.co.uk... > In article > ftit@engin.umich.edu "Sergej Roytman" writes: > > > > Whassa burster? > > The resultant stack of paper was therefore no longer fan-folded and could > be filed in binders, or sent out to non-computer-folk for them to read. > (Presumably it was thought that PHBs were beyond the task of flipping > through fan-fold.) > Or stuffed into envelopes and mailed out, which is why bursters are *not* old technology in some parts. These days, cut-sheet feed laser printers are getting fast enough to do the job instead of using fanfold, but that is fairly new (at least at a reasonable cost). John Homes ###### From: j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:38:55 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 48 Message-ID: <3b795d6e.83273245@enews.newsguy.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-740.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86706 You've ever owned an electrostatic printer, the kind with no ribbons, a silvery paper that was coated with aluminum. Extra points if it was a rotary model in which the paper emerged from a curved slot on the front. Radio Shack sold one of these as their first-ever (pretty sure anyway) printer. It was designed to directly read video memory and print whatever was on the screen. I bought one on deep clearance ($15-20 I think, the original price being $499 as I recall), and I think it may have been my first-ever printer too. No direct print function at all (though I though it could be triggered through a port, as well as the front-panel "print" switch). The paper was about the width of toilet paper, and as I recall, it printed sideways. The print head was on a drum inside, and it rotated as the paper moved across it and out the slot. It made quite a loud and distinctive noise, somewhere between an electric drill and a paper shredder. One amusing characteristic of the RS model was that if it was turned on when a computer was NOT connected, it would simply grind away, spewing a continuous stream of roll paper out the front. For that, it ultimately proved to be better as an amusing film prop than as a printer. I think other versions were sold for home computer use, and I was amused when years later I walked into the company where my wife was working, and spotted the same mechanism mounted on a huge, check sorting machine. On 07 Aug 2001 11:00:11 -0700, Marco S Hyman wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >> >....you used a burster. >> >> I remember using one of those. It went away when the printer >> was on-line. PRINT/COPY:5 > >You're thinking of that thing that pulled the carbons out of multipart >paper. The burster was the machine that turned continuous feed paper >into individual sheets. Adjust it wrong and you'd find out exactly >how strong the perforations were -- the paper would tear everyplace >else. > >// marc J. Steven York - www.sff.net/people/j-steven-york - Writer Generation X Novels: Crossroads, Genogoths Bolo, Old Guard (Now in stores, from Baen Books) ###### Message-ID: <3B706B13.4B8E@indyx.net> From: freddy1X Reply-To: freddy1X Organization: IndyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04C-IndyNet (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 18:26:27 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.183.72.175 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onemain.com X-Trace: nntp1.onemain.com 997226902 209.183.72.175 (Tue, 07 Aug 2001 19:28:22 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 19:28:22 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!nntp1.onemain.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86794 Joe Morris wrote: > ...you've still got ink on your hands from changing printer ribbons > because someone had swiped the plastic gloves that came packed with > new ribbons. ... You've changed a printer ribbon that was more than 12 inches wide. -- keep away from small children /\>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\/ /\ I may be demented \/ /\ but I'm not crazy! \/ /\<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<\/ * SPAyM trap: there is no X in my address * || attatch FLAME here || \/ \/ X ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 8 Aug 2001 00:40:53 GMT Organization: Neosoft (using Airnews.net!) Lines: 11 Message-ID: X-Orig-Message-ID: References: <20010805015115.21445.00001239@mb-mk.aol.com> <9konqk$q9r$1@top.mitre.org> Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library2.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Tue Aug 7 19:40:53 2001 NNTP-Posting-Host: !YdC81k-X@E/qi/ (Encoded at Airnews!) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.4 (Linux) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!199.60.229.5!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cabal11.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!jmaynard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86631 On 7 Aug 2001 12:44:04 GMT, Joe Morris wrote: >bbreynolds@aol.comskipthis (Bruce B. Reynolds) writes: >>You remember building a Heathkit tube tester. ...you remember building a Heathkit. >...or you recall when Heath was in its original business model -- selling >WWII surplus. That was its *second* business model. The first was a kitplane, the Heath Parasol. ###### From: D.J. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:17:25 -0500 Organization: TychoTown Tycho Crater Ice Cream Parlour Lines: 28 Message-ID: <7i41nt4r9eucd4jvn8jksttc5c6bjhp4ds@4ax.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B705075.388A9F65@ev1.net> Reply-To: djim55@cheesydatasync.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-312.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!newsfeed.nyc.globix.net!newsfeed.sjc.globix.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86807 Charles Richmond wrote: []> On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:27:53, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: []> []> > ....and went off the air each night to the tune of the National Anthem []> []Some broadcast channels in the U.S. *still* sign off with the National []Anthem. The Air Force distributes this nice film with the A.F. choir []singing the National Anthem while you see an F-16 flying along the []coast and up some impressive valleys and rock formations... Beautiful!!! The one I saw as a kid was the National Anthem. Then the one with the prop fighter later changed to a jet fighter, was a solem voice speaking the poem about reaching out and touching the face of God as the aircraft climbed and climbed upward thru cloud formations. There were protests. evidently a number of folks thought there was a law that the National Anthem had to be used for tv station sign offs. There was no such law. JimP. -- djim55 at tyhe datasync dot com. Disclaimer: Standard. Updated: August 5, 2001 http://www.crosswinds.net/~drivein/ Drive-In Movie Theatres Registered Linux user#185746 ###### From: j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 02:34:08 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3b70a4fb.101592610@enews.newsguy.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B705075.388A9F65@ev1.net> <7i41nt4r9eucd4jvn8jksttc5c6bjhp4ds@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-833.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86712 The voice is reading a poem called "High Flight." I forget the author, though I could look it up here somewhere. On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:17:25 -0500, D.J. wrote: >Then the one with the prop fighter later changed to a jet fighter, >was a solem voice speaking the poem about reaching out and touching >the face of God as the aircraft climbed and climbed upward thru >cloud formations. J. Steven York - www.sff.net/people/j-steven-york - Writer Generation X Novels: Crossroads, Genogoths Bolo, Old Guard (Now in stores, from Baen Books) ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 00:10:15 -0400 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> <9kmfpe$qnl$1@news.panix.com> <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-347.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.germany.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!novia!novia!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86763 In article , aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote: > Printronix "P" series (150, 300, 600, from memory) Printronix still makes this line. I bought one last September, a P5000. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 11:40:58 -0400 References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com> <3B6B4F10.9B274D30@ev1.net> <20010806202754.700f058e.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: max2h-212.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 997285259 max2h-212.his.com (8 Aug 2001 11:40:59 -0400) Lines: 18 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86743 In article <20010806202754.700f058e.steveo@eircom.net>, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > CR> There were *twelve* transistor models that had three or four transistors > CR> *not* connected at all... But the transisors were *there*, by gum, so > CR> they could count them... > > You may now attempt to count the transistors in a modern PLL tuner, > a scanning electron microscope may prove helpful. But surely you don't think they're all connected? Some engineer at Intel decides, "Yeah, these are our smallest transistors, and we can't begin to print the traces needed, but if we cram another nine million of them in the empty spaces we'll get better publicity when we announce the chip"? ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 11:41:00 -0400 References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B705075.388A9F65@ev1.net> <7i41nt4r9eucd4jvn8jksttc5c6bjhp4ds@4ax.com> <3b70a4fb.101592610@enews.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: max2h-212.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 997285261 max2h-212.his.com (8 Aug 2001 11:41:01 -0400) Lines: 87 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86746 In article <3b70a4fb.101592610@enews.newsguy.com>, j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) wrote: > The voice is reading a poem called "High Flight." I forget the > author, though I could look it up here somewhere. > > On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:17:25 -0500, D.J. > wrote: > > >Then the one with the prop fighter later changed to a jet fighter, > >was a solem voice speaking the poem about reaching out and touching > >the face of God as the aircraft climbed and climbed upward thru > >cloud formations. Why, that's by John Gillespie McGee, jr. Of course, that is the NON-governmental version of the poem. The original, with official caveats, looks like this: Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth(1), And danced(2) the skies on laughter silvered wings; Sunward I've climbed(3) and joined the tumbling mirth(4) Of sun-split clouds(5) and done a hundred things(6) You have not dreamed of -- Wheeled and soared and swung(7) High in the sunlit silence(8). Hov'ring there(9) I've chased the shouting wind(10) along and flung(11) My eager craft through footless halls of air. Up, up the long delirious(12), burning blue I've topped the wind-swept heights(13) with easy grace, Where never lark, or even eagle(14) flew; And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod The high untrespassed sanctity of space(15), Put out my hand(16), and touched the face of God. SAFETY SUPPLEMENT to "High Flight" 1. Flight crews must insure that all surly bonds have been slipped entirely before aircraft taxi or flight is attempted. 2. During periods of severe sky dancing, the FASTEN SEATBELT sign must remain constantly illuminated. 3. Sunward climbs must not exceed the maximum permitted aircraft ceiling. 4. Passenger aircraft are prohibited from joining the tumbling mirth. 5. Pilots flying through sun-split clouds must comply with all applicable visual and instrument flight rules. 6. Do not perform these hundred things in front of Federal Aviation Administration inspectors. 7. Wheeling, soaring, and swinging will not be accomplished simultaneously except by pilots in the flight simulator or in their own aircraft on their own time. 8. Be advised that sunlit silence will occur only when a major engine malfunction has occurred. 9. "Hov'ring there" will constitute a highly reliable signal that a flight emergency is imminent. 10. Forecasts of shouting winds are available from the local FSS. Encounters with unexpected shouting winds should be reported by pilots. 11. Be forewarned that pilot craft-flinging is a leading cause of passenger airsickness. 12. Should any crewmember or passenger experience delirium while in the burning blue, submit an irregularity report upon flight termination. 13. Windswept heights will be topped by a minimum of 1,000 feet to prevent massive airsickness-bag use. 14. Aircraft engine ingestion of, or impact with, larks or eagles should be reported to the FAA and the appropriate aircraft maintenance facility. 15. Air Traffic Control (ATC) must issue all special clearances for treading the high untresspassed sanctity of space. 16. FAA regulations state that no one may sacrifice aircraft cabin pressure to open aircraft windows or doors while in flight. ###### From: brian_huntley@my-deja.com (Brian Huntley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 8 Aug 2001 11:07:47 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> <9kmfpe$qnl$1@news.panix.com> <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 142.205.248.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 997294068 422 127.0.0.1 (8 Aug 2001 18:07:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Aug 2001 18:07:48 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86751 Howard S Shubs wrote in message news:... > In article , > aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote: > > > Printronix "P" series (150, 300, 600, from memory) > > Printronix still makes this line. I bought one last September, a P5000. Do they still print the entire line double width if it contains an ^H? Or go into six-bit graphics with an ^E, and have 60x72 dpi? (very annoying when you're writing a graphics library.) ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 09 Aug 01 10:28:34 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <9ku274$et7$12@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9krekc$137$16@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVb7SndnFv2o8BH8fa9c2pm98/5IwFAsBsSOUyWL6R9QsVeF7PQth0fK X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Aug 2001 13:12:04 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.online.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-249 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86838 In article , Arargh! wrote: >On Wed, 08 Aug 01 10:42:09 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > >>>You're thinking of that thing that pulled the carbons out of multipart >>>paper. >> >>Yes. Have I suffered another brain fart? What was it >>called then? > >deleaver(sp)? > That doesn't ring a bell. I hope this brain fart of mine isn't permanent. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 09 Aug 01 10:29:36 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 12 Message-ID: <9ku292$et7$13@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVb28AnFOYWr2UaNKMCb6nKi1sdcVzu/IjTA8StxLU9yWV8v5zctulTa X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Aug 2001 13:13:06 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-249 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86840 In article <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com>, j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) wrote: >Some ribbons could be "refreshed" by hitting them with WD-40 to >redistribute the ink to the more worn sections. Really? I don't think I ever smelled WD-40. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 09 Aug 01 10:27:19 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 17 Message-ID: <9ku24p$et7$11@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9krekc$137$16@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010808194912.395baea6.steveo@eircom.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYwwemptKmiaVyDn5qxNIH8Czw46QB8UhtTorBfYTbMRQzrrG4UlgnC X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Aug 2001 13:10:49 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!lon1-news.nildram.net!128.230.129.112.MISMATCH!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-249 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86849 In article <20010808194912.395baea6.steveo@eircom.net>, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >On Wed, 08 Aug 01 10:42:09 GMT >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> There was really a piece of gear that could to this? Wow! I >> could have saved me from a lot of pain due to paper cuts. I >> finally figured out that a pencil worked just as well as >> my finger. > > A 12" ruler worked even better when I was doing it. But I never had a 12" ruler behind my ear. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 09 Aug 01 10:38:20 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <9ku2pf$et7$14@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <822.620T15T10053044@nowhere.in.particular> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZJGi0NXwDumhJu5IZQtGoaYXj/nEIFEBmL89+7TleUJP4udFH5uCD1 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Aug 2001 13:21:51 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-249 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86857 In article <822.620T15T10053044@nowhere.in.particular>, "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >In article >alex*@*rockvax.rockefeller.edu (Alexandre Pechtchanski) writes: > >>On 7 Aug 2001 12:36:59 GMT, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >>[ snip ] >> >>>...you've still got ink on your hands from changing printer ribbons >>>because someone had swiped the plastic gloves that came packed with >>>new ribbons. >> >>Plastic gloves! You had it soft! I first discovered plastic gloves >>packed with printer ribbon (and printer ribbons with non-inked leaders) >>on LP-11. Before that I just accepted inked hands as a price for >>changing printer ribbon. > >If I couldn't find gloves I'd sometimes try to use a piece of scrap >paper to handle the ribbon. This usually only delayed the inevitable. > Plastic bags kinda worked but they were pretty expensive. Nowadays, I buy surgical gloves to wash floors, apply spackling and wood putty, etc. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 08 Aug 01 16:45:00 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: <822.620T15T10053044@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-126.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86884 In article alex*@*rockvax.rockefeller.edu (Alexandre Pechtchanski) writes: >On 7 Aug 2001 12:36:59 GMT, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >[ snip ] > >>...you've still got ink on your hands from changing printer ribbons >>because someone had swiped the plastic gloves that came packed with >>new ribbons. > >Plastic gloves! You had it soft! I first discovered plastic gloves >packed with printer ribbon (and printer ribbons with non-inked leaders) >on LP-11. Before that I just accepted inked hands as a price for >changing printer ribbon. If I couldn't find gloves I'd sometimes try to use a piece of scrap paper to handle the ribbon. This usually only delayed the inevitable. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 08 Aug 01 11:42:15 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 15 Message-ID: <550.620T750T7023715@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6E1784.4DA95F60@primeline.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-307.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86885 In article <3B6E1784.4DA95F60@primeline.net> tat@primeline.net (Gary Tait, Very Real) writes: >The CBC in Canada still does it (at least in rural locations). >The local non CBC station used to do it not too many years ago. Back when the local CBC station (CBUT) still did this, they would occasionally play some quite nice music beforehand. I remember hearing Santana's "Incident at Neshabur" on one occasion, and the Doors' "Riders on the Storm" on another. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 08 Aug 01 11:08:08 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 26 Message-ID: <576.620T445T6683514@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010802223320.76dcbf7d.steveo@eircom.net> <3B6A5656.A3E380C9@yahoo.com> <601.615T162T6433331@nowhere.in.particular> <3B6E1674.3D0C1232@primeline.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-289.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86888 In article <3B6E1674.3D0C1232@primeline.net> tat@primeline.net (Gary Tait, Very Real) writes: >Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> In article <3B6A5656.A3E380C9@yahoo.com> cbfalconer@yahoo.com >> (CBFalconer) writes: >> >> > the All-American 5. >> >> Which one: octal (12SK7/12SA7/12SQ7/50L6/35Z5) >> or mini (12BE6/12BA6/12AV6/50...damn/35W4)? >> > >50C5 Thanks. >Or the record player with a 25EH5 tube amplifier. Ours had a 50EH5. Smaller dropping resistor, perhaps. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 08 Aug 01 11:17:21 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: <548.620T1074T6774031@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-291.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86891 In article <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> richmond@ev1.net (Charles Richmond) writes: >Sol Taibi wrote: > >> YKYGOW you know what the "carriage" as >> in "carriage return" looked like. > >And you knew what "pad characters" were for at the end of line >of text...to give the carriage on the physical terminal time >to do the carriage return... And the follow-on CRT terminals were slow enough that you needed pad characters there too if you were scrolling text. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 08 Aug 01 11:29:43 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 12 Message-ID: <343.620T2174T6895335@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> <9kjcg0$cfu$2@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-305.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86892 In article <9kjcg0$cfu$2@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com (jmfbahciv) writes: >Since I don't have card, therefore I'm not an Old Fart. >whew! I was going to check the mirror for grey nose hairs. I did that recently. All I found were demons. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 08 Aug 01 11:22:33 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 24 Message-ID: <727.620T1690T6825363@nowhere.in.particular> References: <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> <9kh8c1$4grfp$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de> <3B6CFC42.2259F885@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-304.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86893 In article <3B6CFC42.2259F885@ev1.net> richmond@ev1.net (Charles Richmond) writes: >Howard S Shubs wrote: > >> In article <9kh8c1$4grfp$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de>, >> Roland Hutchinson wrote: >> >> > Early Edison disks were hill-and-dale. The Betamax of the 78-rpm >> > era (for sufficiently scattered values of 78). >> >> Which explains why you can't play 'em on a Victrola. I've seen it >> tried. > >Another reason may be that the Edison record players moved the arm >using a screw mechanism...the arm did *not* use the grooves in the >record to move down... (IIRC) Well, it worked for their cylinders... -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 08 Aug 01 15:52:31 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: <685.620T1552T9525057@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> <9kmfpe$qnl$1@news.panix.com> <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-123.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86894 In article <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> freddy1X@indyx.net (freddy1X) writes: >... if you have ever tried to operate a processor while it's integral >display is conked-out. > >... you knew the log-in sequence well enough to make the previous >possible. ... and the computer was a mainframe you had to boot with the console display dead. >... you've operated a terminal with a postage stamp sized display >because something blew in the deflection circuit. ... you ever looked at a 1EP1 and wished you could build a postage-stamp-sized display with it because that would be normal for a 1-inch CRT. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 08 Aug 01 11:19:51 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 13 Message-ID: <396.620T2559T6795932@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> <9kh8c1$4grfp$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-303.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86895 In article <9kh8c1$4grfp$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de> rolands.spamtrap@usa.net (Roland Hutchinson) writes: >Early Edison disks were hill-and-dale. The Betamax of the 78-rpm era >(for sufficiently scattered values of 78). Like 80, for instance - which IIRC was the speed at which Edison discs were recorded. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 08 Aug 01 16:43:42 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 49 Message-ID: <1958.620T2140T10035617@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <997205920snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-125.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86900 In article <997205920snz@dsl.co.uk> bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) writes: >In article >ftit@engin.umich.edu "Sergej Roytman" writes: > >> In article <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org>, Joe Morris >> wrote: >> >> >...you used a burster. >> >> Whassa burster? > >A wonderful piece of forms handling machinery. It would take a stack >of fan-folded line-printer paper which would be fed into it in a >continuous length and, through the expedient of having rollers in >the feed-path which ran at differing speeds, cause the inter-sheet >perforations to be subjected to sufficient force that the sheets >would tear apart --- if one was lucky, this would happen along those >perforations :-) Indeed, this would sometimes not happen even if you were tearing the sheets by hand. My theory, which I would explain to unsuspecting visitors, was that the purpose of the perforations was to strengthen the paper so that it would tear somewhere else. >There were also decollators, which separated the sheets of a multi-part >form; the ones that worked with separate carbon interleave (rather than >NCR paper) even wound up the separated carbon paper onto a roll for >convenient disposal. And if the copies stuck together too tightly, the decollator would start winding the paper back onto the roll with the carbon paper. You wanted to watch this machine _very_ closely. >Trimmers would remove the feed perforations from each side >of the printout (this in the days before paper was made with >"microperforations" to facilitate the removal of those side >strips, by hand if necessary. We got a super-duper burster which could do this at the same time. It was quite a machine (and for $5000 it should have been). It was fun to run file cards through it - it sounded like a machine gun and ran at least as fast. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 19:47:34 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 21 Message-ID: <20010808194734.352e53a4.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com> <3B6B4F10.9B274D30@ev1.net> <20010806202754.700f058e.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p114.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997302888 33679 194.134.200.78 (8 Aug 2001 20:34:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 20:34:48 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86874 On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 11:40:58 -0400 ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) wrote: ER> In article <20010806202754.700f058e.steveo@eircom.net>, ER> Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: ER> > You may now attempt to count the transistors in a modern PLL tuner, ER> > a scanning electron microscope may prove helpful. ER> ER> But surely you don't think they're all connected? Some engineer at Intel ER> decides, "Yeah, these are our smallest transistors, and we can't begin to ER> print the traces needed, but if we cram another nine million of them in the ER> empty spaces we'll get better publicity when we announce the chip"? ROTFL, counting the connections was coming next. But be careful I know of at least one piece of circuitry that doesn't work unless another disconnected (apparently) piece is wired up correctly. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 19:49:12 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 14 Message-ID: <20010808194912.395baea6.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9krekc$137$16@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p114.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997302888 33679 194.134.200.78 (8 Aug 2001 20:34:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 20:34:48 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86881 On Wed, 08 Aug 01 10:42:09 GMT jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > There was really a piece of gear that could to this? Wow! I > could have saved me from a lot of pain due to paper cuts. I > finally figured out that a pencil worked just as well as > my finger. A 12" ruler worked even better when I was doing it. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: "Bill Marcum" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> <9kh8c1$4grfp$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de> <1btomtci73er4mv1g3c2dn9ehlr40ter0r@4ax.com> <9ki88u0sos@drn.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:12:10 -0400 Lines: 10 Organization: Llewellyn's Ming Vase Shuffleboard League X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0913.2206 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0913.2200 NNTP-Posting-Host: lou-ts9-20.iglou.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: lou-ts9-20.iglou.com Message-ID: <3b718ea7$1_3@news.iglou.com> X-Trace: news.iglou.com 997297831 lou-ts9-20.iglou.com (8 Aug 2001 15:10:31 -0400) X-Authenticated-User: bmarcum X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.255.236.35 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-hub.siol.net!zur.uu.net!ash.uu.net!news.iglou.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86827 D_Jim wrote in message <9ki88u0sos@drn.newsguy.com>... > >... when you are talking about Buffalo Bob and someone standing nearby >thinks you mean Buffalo Bill and his Wild West Show. > Or "Buffalo Bill", the sitcom with Dabney Coleman? ###### From: j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 20:43:21 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 39 Message-ID: <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-511.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86866 Some ribbons could be "refreshed" by hitting them with WD-40 to redistribute the ink to the more worn sections. On Wed, 08 Aug 01 10:48:32 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >In article , > Alexandre Pechtchanski wrote: >>On 7 Aug 2001 12:36:59 GMT, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >>[ snip ] >> >>>...you've still got ink on your hands from changing printer ribbons >>>because someone had swiped the plastic gloves that came packed with >>>new ribbons. >> >>Plastic gloves! You had it soft! I first discovered >>plastic gloves packed with printer ribbon (and printer >>ribbons with non-inked leaders) on LP-11. Before >>that I just accepted inked hands as a price for changing >>printer ribbon. > >That's not nice if you immediately had to hang a magtape or >put in a new box of printer paper. Our operators almost >kept The Gloves under lock and key. There was a niche in >the printer that most people didn't see that could hold the >used gloves for the next time the printer ribbon was reversed. >Shops did use the same ribbon over and over again...didn't they? >If we had a print request that needed a new ribbon, the operators >would put in the new ribbon, do the print job, take the new ribbon >out, put the old one back in. A ribbon didn't get thrown away >until it became holey. > > >/BAH > >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. J. Steven York - www.sff.net/people/j-steven-york - Writer Generation X Novels: Crossroads, Genogoths Bolo, Old Guard (Now in stores, from Baen Books) ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 16:47:07 -0500 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9krekc$137$16@bob.news.rcn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZeAQtE0nfzzkKyVLAMPz7eUOo4sZuaF3cnMn3x8/3URnkfCVGMK8mF X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Aug 2001 21:47:11 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86916 On Wed, 08 Aug 01 10:42:09 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>You're thinking of that thing that pulled the carbons out of multipart >>paper. > >Yes. Have I suffered another brain fart? What was it >called then? deleaver(sp)? -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: D.J. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 16:56:20 -0500 Organization: TychoTown Tycho Crater Ice Cream Parlour Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> <9kh8c1$4grfp$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de> <1btomtci73er4mv1g3c2dn9ehlr40ter0r@4ax.com> <9ki88u0sos@drn.newsguy.com> <3b718ea7$1_3@news.iglou.com> Reply-To: djim55@cheesydatasync.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-596.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86919 Bill Marcum" wrote: []D_Jim wrote in message <9ki88u0sos@drn.newsguy.com>... []> []>... when you are talking about Buffalo Bob and someone standing nearby []>thinks you mean Buffalo Bill and his Wild West Show. []> []Or "Buffalo Bill", the sitcom with Dabney Coleman? Hmm. Never heard of that one. D.J. -- djim55 at tyhe datasync dot com. Disclaimer: Standard. Updated: August 5, 2001 http://www.crosswinds.net/~drivein/ Drive-In Movie Theatres Registered Linux user#185746 ###### From: D.J. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 16:57:53 -0500 Organization: TychoTown Tycho Crater Ice Cream Parlour Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B705075.388A9F65@ev1.net> <7i41nt4r9eucd4jvn8jksttc5c6bjhp4ds@4ax.com> <3b70a4fb.101592610@enews.newsguy.com> Reply-To: djim55@cheesydatasync.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-664.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86932 []On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 20:17:25 -0500, D.J. [] wrote: [] []>Then the one with the prop fighter later changed to a jet fighter, []>was a solem voice speaking the poem about reaching out and touching []>the face of God as the aircraft climbed and climbed upward thru []>cloud formations. j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) wrote: []The voice is reading a poem called "High Flight." I forget the []author, though I could look it up here somewhere. Ah, I had forgotten the name of it. But that is the one I remember. JimP. -- djim55 at tyhe datasync dot com. Disclaimer: Standard. Updated: August 5, 2001 http://www.crosswinds.net/~drivein/ Drive-In Movie Theatres Registered Linux user#185746 ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 22:25:30 -0400 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> <9kmfpe$qnl$1@news.panix.com> <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-925.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!newsfeed.nyc.globix.net!newsfeed.sjc.globix.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86912 In article , brian_huntley@my-deja.com (Brian Huntley) wrote: > Do they still print the entire line double width if it contains an ^H? > > Or go into six-bit graphics with an ^E, and have 60x72 dpi? (very > annoying when you're writing a graphics library.) Dunno, we haven't tried printing anything other than straight text. It doesn't seem to understand TAB characters, even. We did NOT get the graphics option. Only option we got was the ethernet interface. I can bring up the printer as a web site, IIRC, to change settings. Hm, haven't done that for a while. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### Message-ID: <3B7207C9.B6550B39@ev1.net> Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 20:47:20 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com> <3B6B4F10.9B274D30@ev1.net> <20010806202754.700f058e.steveo@eircom.net> <20010808194734.352e53a4.steveo@eircom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997321677 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (8 Aug 2001 20:47:57 -0500) Lines: 33 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86922 Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 11:40:58 -0400 > ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) wrote: > > ER> In article <20010806202754.700f058e.steveo@eircom.net>, > ER> Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > ER> > You may now attempt to count the transistors in a modern PLL tuner, > ER> > a scanning electron microscope may prove helpful. > ER> > ER> But surely you don't think they're all connected? Some engineer at Intel > ER> decides, "Yeah, these are our smallest transistors, and we can't begin to > ER> print the traces needed, but if we cram another nine million of them in the > ER> empty spaces we'll get better publicity when we announce the chip"? > > ROTFL, counting the connections was coming next. But be careful I > know of at least one piece of circuitry that doesn't work unless another > disconnected (apparently) piece is wired up correctly. > Reminds me of something an EE told me about where I used to work... he said they designed this CMOS chip, built it, and it was working in the circuit. But strangely enough, every once in a while, it would just stop working... Turned out, they had forgot to connect the power pin... As long as the chip had at least *one* input that was on, it could draw enough power from that to function. But when the entire input went to zero, the chip stopped working... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 01:41:32 -0400 References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com> <3B6B4F10.9B274D30@ev1.net> <20010806202754.700f058e.steveo@eircom.net> <20010808194734.352e53a4.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: max1h-97.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 997335694 max1h-97.his.com (9 Aug 2001 01:41:34 -0400) Lines: 17 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!btnet-peer!btnet!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86899 In article <20010808194734.352e53a4.steveo@eircom.net>, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > ER> print the traces needed, but if we cram another nine million of them in the > ER> empty spaces we'll get better publicity when we announce the chip"? > > ROTFL, counting the connections was coming next. But be careful I > know of at least one piece of circuitry that doesn't work unless another > disconnected (apparently) piece is wired up correctly. There's a lovely entry in the Jargon File about something much like this. And if I trusted you more, I'd tell you which entry it was. -- E "Or if I could remember it. One or the other." R ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 01:41:34 -0400 References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: max1h-97.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 997335696 max1h-97.his.com (9 Aug 2001 01:41:36 -0400) Lines: 28 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86903 In article <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com>, j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) wrote: > Some ribbons could be "refreshed" by hitting them with WD-40 to > redistribute the ink to the more worn sections. WD-40 hadn't yet been invented, when DEC opened up that ribbon Barbara is talking about. And that ribbon wasn't used up enough to warrant spending money to renew it, when they went out of business. By the way, "top-posting" (when you put your comments first and then the quoted material you're replying to below) is quite legal and isn't even immoral and hasn't yet been proven to be fattening, in the newsgroup. However... it is perceived to be a less-efficient means of communicating "someone said and so I'm replying ." People prefer putting your new comments at the bottom, after trimming the quoted part so it's a fair, attributed quote but not overlengthy. "Just like I do," is the phrase that springs to mind, but often gets me verbally punched-out when I use it. -- E "too polite to suggest cause and effect[1]" R [1] which refers back to Barbara's ribbon and your mention of how to refresh it, not to the later comment I added. ###### From: dscheidt@tumbolia.com (David Scheidt) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 9 Aug 2001 05:54:07 GMT Lines: 25 Sender: David Scheidt Message-ID: <9kt8hv$jd6$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com> <3B6B4F10.9B274D30@ev1.net> <20010806202754.700f058e.steveo@eircom.net> <20010808194734.352e53a4.steveo@eircom.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaPDnbdwQzUhXXOF0bIOGT4o+nmNS5BgUI/ayzBs8KyOssW9ncZ+e/G X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Aug 2001 05:54:07 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86851 Edward Rice wrote: : In article <20010808194734.352e53a4.steveo@eircom.net>, : Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: : > ER> print the traces needed, but if we cram another nine million of them : in the : > ER> empty spaces we'll get better publicity when we announce the chip"? : > : > ROTFL, counting the connections was coming next. But be careful I : > know of at least one piece of circuitry that doesn't work unless another : > disconnected (apparently) piece is wired up correctly. : There's a lovely entry in the Jargon File about something much like this. : And if I trusted you more, I'd tell you which entry it was. : -- E "Or if I could remember it. One or the other." R I'll trust it's your memory that's fading. More magic. http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/A-Story-About-Magic.html -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ###### From: dscheidt@tumbolia.com (David Scheidt) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 9 Aug 2001 06:04:48 GMT Lines: 19 Sender: David Scheidt Message-ID: <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVawjmcz6aOKObVhNtGqGhWRc7HcEK3mJ8CpTaS+2mz4J8f316+VMwFs X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Aug 2001 06:04:48 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.germany.net!newscore.gigabell.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86837 Edward Rice wrote: : In article <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com>, : j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) wrote: : > Some ribbons could be "refreshed" by hitting them with WD-40 to : > redistribute the ink to the more worn sections. : WD-40 hadn't yet been invented, when DEC opened up that ribbon Barbara is : talking about. WD-40 was invented in 1953 by Norm Larsen who worked for the Rocket Chemical Corporation (who changed their name to the WD-40 Company). It's been available commercially since 1958. It's the wrong tool for so many things, just like Vice-Grips and duct tape. David Scheidt -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:17:04 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 22 Message-ID: <20010809081704.13c8171d.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com> <3B6B4F10.9B274D30@ev1.net> <20010806202754.700f058e.steveo@eircom.net> <20010808194734.352e53a4.steveo@eircom.net> <3B7207C9.B6550B39@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p0878.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997376413 31801 194.134.202.115 (9 Aug 2001 17:00:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 17:00:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.online.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86872 On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 20:47:20 -0700 Charles Richmond wrote: CR> Reminds me of something an EE told me about where I used to work... CR> he said they designed this CMOS chip, built it, and it was working CR> in the circuit. But strangely enough, every once in a while, it would CR> just stop working... CR> CR> Turned out, they had forgot to connect the power pin... As long as the CR> chip had at least *one* input that was on, it could draw enough power CR> from that to function. But when the entire input went to zero, the CR> chip stopped working... Shades of the two component fuzz box. You connected the signal in via a 50uF cap to the base of an OC71, emitter to ground and collector to input of amplifier. It drew power from the base bias of the input stage and distorted quite nicely :) -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: john.cc@nospam.europlacer.co.uk (John Carlyle-Clarke) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 07:56:44 +0000 Organization: Europlacer Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com> <3B6B4F10.9B274D30@ev1.net> <20010806202754.700f058e.steveo@eircom.net> <20010808194734.352e53a4.steveo@eircom.net> User-Agent: Xnews/4.01.30 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.online.be!sn-uk-xit-01!sn-uk-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.co.uk!pc69.comconnect!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86931 Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote in <20010808194734.352e53a4.steveo@eircom.net>: [snip] > > ROTFL, counting the connections was coming next. But be careful I >know of at least one piece of circuitry that doesn't work unless another >disconnected (apparently) piece is wired up correctly. > That wouldn't be the genetically created FPGA circuits described in New Scientist a few years back would it? In the experiment they tried to use genetic algorithms to evolve a circuit which could differentiate between two tones - one at 1 kHz and one at 100kHz - using 100 logic cells. They created a random set of 50 configurations and then went from there. I think it took about 4000 generations. The interesting things about those experiments were: 1. They had no clear idea how the final circuits worked. 2. Out of the 100 cells only 32 were essential to the operation. 5 of those were not connected to anything but if they were removed the circuit stopped working. 3. The circuit used undefined analogue properties of the gates in a number of complex feedback loops. One side effect of this is that the circuits don't transfer well, although they were working on a way to limit the evolution to use published well-defined general characteristics. All this was back in '97 and I haven't followed up to see how they are getting on. I think further reading is at http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/adrianth/ade.html ###### From: john.cc@nospam.europlacer.co.uk (John Carlyle-Clarke) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:27:05 +0000 Organization: Europlacer Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> User-Agent: Xnews/4.01.30 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 13 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.online.be!sn-uk-xit-01!sn-uk-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.co.uk!pc69.comconnect!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86930 dscheidt@tumbolia.com (David Scheidt) wrote in <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net>: > [snip] >WD-40 was invented in 1953 by Norm Larsen who worked for the Rocket >Chemical Corporation (who changed their name to the WD-40 Company). >It's been available commercially since 1958. It's the wrong tool for so >many things, just like Vice-Grips and duct tape. > Hmm... next you'll be suggesting there are jobs that don't require a hammer. ###### From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 11:32:02 +0100 Message-ID: <997352863.11503.0.nnrp-08.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 997352863 nnrp-08:11503 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2481.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2481.0000 Lines: 23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86927 "John Carlyle-Clarke" wrote in message news:Xns90F8603BFC41Bjohncceuroplacercouk@192.168.1.69... > dscheidt@tumbolia.com (David Scheidt) wrote in > <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net>: > > > [snip] > >WD-40 was invented in 1953 by Norm Larsen who worked for the Rocket > >Chemical Corporation (who changed their name to the WD-40 Company). > >It's been available commercially since 1958. It's the wrong tool for so > >many things, just like Vice-Grips and duct tape. > > > Hmm... next you'll be suggesting there are jobs that don't require a > hammer. Don't forget: "Don't force it get a bigger hammer" -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 9 Aug 2001 12:35:24 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 20 Message-ID: <9ku02c$nfl$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9krekc$137$16@bob.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997360524 24053 128.29.251.13 (9 Aug 2001 12:35:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Aug 2001 12:35:24 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86830 jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > Marco S Hyman wrote: >>jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >>> >....you used a burster. >>> I remember using one of those. It went away when the printer >>> was on-line. PRINT/COPY:5 >>You're thinking of that thing that pulled the carbons out of multipart >>paper. >Yes. Have I suffered another brain fart? What was it >called then? Decollator, at least when it worked. It was called other things when it didn't, especially when the job was already late... Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 9 Aug 2001 12:42:49 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 9 Message-ID: <9ku0g9$nit$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <822.620T15T10053044@nowhere.in.particular> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997360969 24157 128.29.251.13 (9 Aug 2001 12:42:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Aug 2001 12:42:49 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86831 "Charlie Gibbs" writes: >If I couldn't find gloves I'd sometimes try to use a piece of scrap >paper to handle the ribbon. This usually only delayed the inevitable. You and everybody else in the industry. Yup, BTDTGTS (Been There, Done That, Got The Stains). And remember the smell of a new ribbon? Joe Morris ###### From: Richard Drushel Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 9 Aug 2001 12:45:33 GMT Organization: Coleco ADAM Online, Ltd. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <9ku0ld$af7$1@plonk.apk.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <997352863.11503.0.nnrp-08.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: junior.apk.net X-Trace: plonk.apk.net 997361133 10727 207.54.158.20 (9 Aug 2001 12:45:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@apk.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Aug 2001 12:45:33 GMT User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990624 ("Dawnrazor") (UNIX) (SunOS/5.8 (sun4u)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!plonk.apk.net!news.apk.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86828 Peter Ibbotson spake unto the ether: : Don't forget: : "Don't force it get a bigger hammer" "Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe". *Rich* -- Richard F. Drushel, Ph.D. | "Aplysia californica" is your taxonomic Department of Biology, Slug Division | nomenclature. / A slug, by any other Case Western Reserve University | name, is still a slug by nature. Cleveland, Ohio 44106-7080 U.S.A. | -- apologies to Data, "Ode to Spot" ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 10 Aug 01 09:51:04 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 16 Message-ID: <9l0kd5$823$6@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> <9kjcg0$cfu$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <343.620T2174T6895335@nowhere.in.particular> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYdfaM0iF1X/paQQTjtvlTHQLfTpmHtInQEnhTI/6NFP8zJEaYtGlHq X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Aug 2001 12:34:45 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newsfeed.kpnqwest.at!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-54 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86953 In article <343.620T2174T6895335@nowhere.in.particular>, "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >In article <9kjcg0$cfu$2@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com (jmfbahciv) >writes: > >>Since I don't have card, therefore I'm not an Old Fart. >>whew! I was going to check the mirror for grey nose hairs. > >I did that recently. All I found were demons. [emoticon gets real cautious and says in a quiet voice] Daemons? I didn't read about those in my "How to Become a Grownup" manual. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 10 Aug 01 09:59:09 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 35 Message-ID: <9l0ksa$823$9@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9krekc$137$16@bob.news.rcn.net> <9ku02c$nfl$1@top.mitre.org> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVb2aULRGyU6VlP/RXJ75Z9zvFfpbvzWhJLD33QY6QrsTw+mzliFHcXe X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Aug 2001 12:42:50 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-54 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86960 In article <9ku02c$nfl$1@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >> Marco S Hyman wrote: >>>jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >>>> >....you used a burster. > >>>> I remember using one of those. It went away when the printer >>>> was on-line. PRINT/COPY:5 > >>>You're thinking of that thing that pulled the carbons out of multipart >>>paper. > >>Yes. Have I suffered another brain fart? What was it >>called then? > >Decollator, at least when it worked. It was called other things when >it didn't, especially when the job was already late... Heh. Right. That's why I got hired. Actually the same incantations that kept the carbon paper from getting sucked up into the computer fans works with Saran Wrap. When decollating, as long as I could keep the carbon paper from flying around, the other paper seemed to fanfold just fine. There was an exception but I can't recall what it is now. Anyway, that exception caused me to stop the decollation just before everything became a mess. I think it may have been one of the layers' top fanfold edge doing a double hop. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 10 Aug 01 09:55:05 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9l0kkm$823$8@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010809213005.6883d086.steveo@eircom.net> <997401840snz@dsl.co.uk> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbEgJl6dsCMBSZ2Hy6OYLMF2hw0Fjpjh2KfiBNs1oZ4Zlda9Ygol4UU X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Aug 2001 12:38:46 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-54 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86961 In article <997401840snz@dsl.co.uk>, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: >In article <20010809213005.6883d086.steveo@eircom.net> > steveo@eircom.net "Steve O'Hara-Smith" writes: > >> On Thu, 09 Aug 01 10:27:19 GMT >> jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> > >> > But I never had a 12" ruler behind my ear. >> >> It was kept by the printer. > >Why did he want a ruler? Well, not a 12" one, anyway. Now something >calibrated in true points might have been of some use to this mythical >printer... > Hah! This triggered a memory. Wasn't there a steel ruler that was too long to carry around but every card handler needed one? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 10 Aug 01 09:53:04 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 30 Message-ID: <9l0kgt$823$7@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> <9kmfpe$qnl$1@news.panix.com> <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> <685.620T1552T9525057@nowhere.in.particular> <3B72F9B5.681D4F1@yahoo.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbol4eB7D8IXuwW8/GLiWFYIS0MUWGD24IfY6L7r4MgKWPikUMSOMkM X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Aug 2001 12:36:45 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-54 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86962 In article <3B72F9B5.681D4F1@yahoo.com>, CBFalconer wrote: >Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >> In article <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> freddy1X@indyx.net (freddy1X) >> writes: >> >> >... if you have ever tried to operate a processor while it's integral >> >display is conked-out. >> > >> >... you knew the log-in sequence well enough to make the previous >> >possible. >> >> ... and the computer was a mainframe you had to boot with the >> console display dead. >> >> >... you've operated a terminal with a postage stamp sized display >> >because something blew in the deflection circuit. >> >> ... you ever looked at a 1EP1 and wished you could build a >> postage-stamp-sized display with it because that would be >> normal for a 1-inch CRT. > >You remember those 1" CRTs, that came in a 6L6 metal case. Are those the things that caused bumps in your pockets? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 09 Aug 01 15:50:42 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 34 Message-ID: <1166.621T2130T9505511@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-985.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.germany.net!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!opentransit.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87003 In article ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) writes: >By the way, "top-posting" (when you put your comments first and >then the quoted material you're replying to below) is quite legal >and isn't even immoral and hasn't yet been proven to be fattening, >in the newsgroup. Actually, it _is_ fattening - it makes people feel they don't have to trim the quoted text. And a lot of us think it's gone past immoral and with luck will soon be illegal - at least without a note from your mom. >However... it is perceived to be a less-efficient means of >communicating "someone said and so I'm replying ." >People prefer putting your new comments at the bottom, Unfortunately, some newsreaders from Redmond do not. >after trimming the quoted part so it's a fair, attributed quote >but not overlengthy. Oh, how I wish. (See above.) >"Just like I do," is the phrase that springs to mind, but often >gets me verbally punched-out when I use it. I'll back you up. If all else fails, we can create diversions for each other as we're running away. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 09 Aug 01 22:25:59 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 26 Message-ID: <768.621T2951T13455764@nowhere.in.particular> References: <20010802223320.76dcbf7d.steveo@eircom.net> <3B6A5656.A3E380C9@yahoo.com> <601.615T162T6433331@nowhere.in.particular> <3B6E1674.3D0C1232@primeline.net> <576.620T445T6683514@nowhere.in.particular> <3B735F75.8C5B04FA@primeline.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-038.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.online.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87005 In article <3B735F75.8C5B04FA@primeline.net> tat@primeline.net (Gary Tait, Very Real) writes: >Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> In article <3B6E1674.3D0C1232@primeline.net> tat@primeline.net >> (Gary Tait, Very Real) writes: >> >> >Or the record player with a 25EH5 tube amplifier. >> >> Ours had a 50EH5. Smaller dropping resistor, perhaps. > >The 25EH5 models derived the filament voltage from a tap on the motor >winding. > >I do have the amplifier from a stereo player that uses two 50EH5s >in series with a resistor. That makes a lot more sense. Ours was a mono portable unit in a case that made it look like a hair dryer of the time. It had a single 50EH5 and a BIG resistor. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 20:49:45 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 23 Message-ID: <20010809204945.73f3011b.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kcjrg$jib$2@news.panix.com> <3B6B4F10.9B274D30@ev1.net> <20010806202754.700f058e.steveo@eircom.net> <20010808194734.352e53a4.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1530.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997392581 10837 194.134.170.255 (9 Aug 2001 21:29:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:29:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86995 On Thu, 9 Aug 2001 07:56:44 +0000 john.cc@nospam.europlacer.co.uk (John Carlyle-Clarke) wrote: JC> Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote in JC> <20010808194734.352e53a4.steveo@eircom.net>: JC> JC> [snip] JC> JC> > JC> > ROTFL, counting the connections was coming next. But be careful I JC> >know of at least one piece of circuitry that doesn't work unless another JC> >disconnected (apparently) piece is wired up correctly. JC> > JC> JC> That wouldn't be the genetically created FPGA circuits described in New JC> Scientist a few years back would it? In the experiment they tried to use That'd be the one I'm thinking of, Adrian Thompsons work. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:30:05 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 23 Message-ID: <20010809213005.6883d086.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9krekc$137$16@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010808194912.395baea6.steveo@eircom.net> <9ku24p$et7$11@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1530.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997392582 10837 194.134.170.255 (9 Aug 2001 21:29:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:29:42 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!195.64.68.27!newsgate.cistron.nl!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86989 On Thu, 09 Aug 01 10:27:19 GMT jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > In article <20010808194912.395baea6.steveo@eircom.net>, > Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > >On Wed, 08 Aug 01 10:42:09 GMT > >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > > >> There was really a piece of gear that could to this? Wow! I > >> could have saved me from a lot of pain due to paper cuts. I > >> finally figured out that a pencil worked just as well as > >> my finger. > > > > A 12" ruler worked even better when I was doing it. > > But I never had a 12" ruler behind my ear. It was kept by the printer. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: "Lenina" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <997352863.11503.0.nnrp-08.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Lines: 22 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <00Cc7.19200$N97.14646@news.iol.ie> Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 20:03:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.165.160.213 X-Complaints-To: abuse@iol.ie X-Trace: news.iol.ie 997387388 194.165.160.213 (Thu, 09 Aug 2001 21:03:08 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 21:03:08 BST Organization: Ireland On-Line Customer Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!1621206!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!iol.ie!news.iol.ie!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86947 All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 "Peter Ibbotson" wrote in message > > Hmm... next you'll be suggesting there are jobs that don't require a > > hammer. > > Don't forget: > "Don't force it get a bigger hammer" > > -- > Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply > Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX > > > ###### From: "Don Chiasson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Lines: 19 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 21:11:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.42.241.65 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news3.rdc1.on.home.com 997391500 24.42.241.65 (Thu, 09 Aug 2001 14:11:40 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 14:11:40 PDT Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news3.rdc1.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87010 "David Scheidt" wrote in message news:9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net... > > WD-40 was invented in 1953 by Norm Larsen who worked > for the Rocket Chemical Corporation (who changed their > name to the WD-40 Company). It's been available > commercially since 1958. > About a year ago, one of the business magazines (Fortune? Business Week?) had an article about the company that makes WD-40. Back in the 1950's. the company was searching for a chemical to disperse water on the outside of rockets, i.e. a Water Dispersant. The first 39 chemicals tried didn't work. Yep, that's where the name came from. Don e-mail: it's not not, it's hot. ###### Message-ID: <3B72F9B5.681D4F1@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> <9kmfpe$qnl$1@news.panix.com> <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> <685.620T1552T9525057@nowhere.in.particular> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 29 Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:05:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.172.198 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 997394730 12.90.172.198 (Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:05:30 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:05:30 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87036 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > In article <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> freddy1X@indyx.net (freddy1X) > writes: > > >... if you have ever tried to operate a processor while it's integral > >display is conked-out. > > > >... you knew the log-in sequence well enough to make the previous > >possible. > > ... and the computer was a mainframe you had to boot with the > console display dead. > > >... you've operated a terminal with a postage stamp sized display > >because something blew in the deflection circuit. > > ... you ever looked at a 1EP1 and wished you could build a > postage-stamp-sized display with it because that would be > normal for a 1-inch CRT. You remember those 1" CRTs, that came in a 6L6 metal case. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### Message-ID: <3B72FBF3.F5CF0E6C@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:05:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.172.198 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 997394734 12.90.172.198 (Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:05:34 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:05:34 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86941 David Scheidt wrote: > > Edward Rice wrote: > : In article <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com>, > : j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) wrote: > > : > Some ribbons could be "refreshed" by hitting them with WD-40 to > : > redistribute the ink to the more worn sections. > > : WD-40 hadn't yet been invented, when DEC opened up that ribbon Barbara is > : talking about. > > WD-40 was invented in 1953 by Norm Larsen who worked for the Rocket > Chemical Corporation (who changed their name to the WD-40 Company). > It's been available commercially since 1958. It's the wrong tool for so > many things, just like Vice-Grips and duct tape. NEVER EVER use such delicate tools. A 4 foot pipe wrench is much more suitable for cranky line printers. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### From: chris 'fufas' grace Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:59:27 +1200 Organization: transdata corporation ltd, auckland n.z. Lines: 36 Message-ID: <3B7315CF.91E7F81D@transdata.co.nz> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3B6D8612.8E8909DE@earthlink.net> <3b76fc0d.751212191@enews.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 202.36.43.34 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: aklobs.kc.net.nz 997397867 12406 202.36.43.34 (9 Aug 2001 22:57:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@kcbbs.gen.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Aug 2001 22:57:47 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!usenet.net.nz!news.iprolink.co.nz!kcbbs!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86966 John Carlyle-Clarke wrote: > > > I'm not so sure about that. MS application macro languages are all Visual > Basic in disguise. And you can fire up VB, create on .BAS module and run > the following: > > sub main() > > 10 debug.print "Hello"; > 20 goto 10 > > end sub > > (By the way I don't suggest it. It locks up VB and you have to terminate > it.) I used to go into WH Smith in the UK and type the following on commodore 64s: 10 for N = 1 to 65536 20 poke N,0 30 end for (Or whatever the correct syntax was) Used to confuse the sales people mightily as they had no idea what it was (technical education of salespeople being what it is), and when the machine eventually crashed they thought something was wrong with it. -- For a dining "experience" visit the "Killer Prawn" in Whangarei! Be served and charged for food *without even ordering it*! Let the staff treat you with undisguised condescension and contempt! Experience the total incompetence of the management! Book today! ###### From: ic0cdfw00@ic24.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:46:09 +0100 Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9krekc$137$16@bob.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: tony.lenton@physics.org NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-31-166.dialup.lineone.co.uk (213.123.31.166) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 997400923 6832806 213.123.31.166 (16 [88156]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!host213-123-31-166.dialup.lineone.co.UK!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87020 On Wed, 08 Aug 01 10:42:09 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >Yes. Have I suffered another brain fart? What was it >called then? > Try decollater. -- aml ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:04:00 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <997401840snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010809213005.6883d086.steveo@eircom.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 997425210 mail2news:4020 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!newspeer.highwayone.net!shale.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87029 In article <20010809213005.6883d086.steveo@eircom.net> steveo@eircom.net "Steve O'Hara-Smith" writes: > On Thu, 09 Aug 01 10:27:19 GMT > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > > > > But I never had a 12" ruler behind my ear. > > It was kept by the printer. Why did he want a ruler? Well, not a 12" one, anyway. Now something calibrated in true points might have been of some use to this mythical printer... -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### Message-ID: <3B735412.7BE59589@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3B6D8612.8E8909DE@earthlink.net> <3b76fc0d.751212191@enews.newsguy.com> <3B7315CF.91E7F81D@transdata.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 47 Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 03:47:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.167.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 997415260 12.90.167.147 (Fri, 10 Aug 2001 03:47:40 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 03:47:40 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!blackbush-n.xlink.net!blackbush.de.kpnqwest.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87037 chris 'fufas' grace wrote: > > John Carlyle-Clarke wrote: > > > > > > > I'm not so sure about that. MS application macro languages are all Visual > > Basic in disguise. And you can fire up VB, create on .BAS module and run > > the following: > > > > sub main() > > > > 10 debug.print "Hello"; > > 20 goto 10 > > > > end sub > > > > (By the way I don't suggest it. It locks up VB and you have to terminate > > it.) > > I used to go into WH Smith in the UK and type the following on > commodore 64s: > > 10 for N = 1 to 65536 > 20 poke N,0 > 30 end for > > (Or whatever the correct syntax was) > > Used to confuse the sales people mightily as they had no idea what it > was (technical education of salespeople being what it is), and when > the machine eventually crashed they thought something was wrong with > it. Many so-called Pascals (including Turbo) had the bug FOR i := 1 TO maxint DO (* nothing *); which would lock up the machine. It is perfectly legal, and should terminate. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### Message-ID: <3B735F75.8C5B04FA@primeline.net> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:13:41 -0400 From: "Gary Tait, Very Real" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010802223320.76dcbf7d.steveo@eircom.net> <3B6A5656.A3E380C9@yahoo.com> <601.615T162T6433331@nowhere.in.particular> <3B6E1674.3D0C1232@primeline.net> <576.620T445T6683514@nowhere.in.particular> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: Virginia.BMTS.Com!unknown@nas3-ip-146.kac.primeline.net X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.183.128.12 X-Trace: corp.newsgroups.com 997416053 216.183.128.12 (9 Aug 2001 23:00:53 -0500) Lines: 45 X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 80,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-dallas!news-in-dallas.newsfeeds.com!corp.newsgroups.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86956 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > In article <3B6E1674.3D0C1232@primeline.net> tat@primeline.net > (Gary Tait, Very Real) writes: > > >Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > > >> In article <3B6A5656.A3E380C9@yahoo.com> cbfalconer@yahoo.com > >> (CBFalconer) writes: > >> > >> > the All-American 5. > >> > >> Which one: octal (12SK7/12SA7/12SQ7/50L6/35Z5) > >> or mini (12BE6/12BA6/12AV6/50...damn/35W4)? > >> > > > >50C5 > > Thanks. > > >Or the record player with a 25EH5 tube amplifier. > > Ours had a 50EH5. Smaller dropping resistor, perhaps. > The 25EH5 models derived the filament voltage from a tap on the motor winding. I do have the amplifier from a stereo player that uses two 50EH5s in series with a resistor. > -- > cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) > I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. -- Gary Tait,VE3VBF Homepage: http://www.primeline.net/~tait **** Do not Email back me newsgroup responses, just post them. **** ---- Replace x with e , and y to a to email me, if required ---- -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ###### From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:12:32 +0100 Message-ID: <997434479.20203.0.nnrp-07.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <1166.621T2130T9505511@nowhere.in.particular> NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 997434479 nnrp-07:20203 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2481.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2481.0000 Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!comnets.rwth-aachen.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87025 "Charlie Gibbs" wrote in message news:1166.621T2130T9505511@nowhere.in.particular... > In article ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) > writes: > [snip] > >However... it is perceived to be a less-efficient means of > >communicating "someone said and so I'm replying ." > >People prefer putting your new comments at the bottom, > > Unfortunately, some newsreaders from Redmond do not. > I really must try and get a better newsreader. Sadly I think I'll find I'll have to write myself, 'cos last time I looked most of the *nix ports to windows were horrid (I have all the RFCs and most of MIME compatible reader etc.) Yet another project to add to the list. -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 10 Aug 2001 13:09:22 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 13 Message-ID: <9l0me2$lb3$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <997352863.11503.0.nnrp-08.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <00Cc7.19200$N97.14646@news.iol.ie> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997448962 21859 128.29.251.13 (10 Aug 2001 13:09:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Aug 2001 13:09:22 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86944 "Lenina" writes: >All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that >the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, >if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all >means, do not use a hammer. > -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925 Now *that* is one that I've never run into before. What product was the maintenance manual supporting? (Perhaps a time clock?) Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 10 Aug 2001 13:11:50 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 16 Message-ID: <9l0mim$lbh$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B72FBF3.F5CF0E6C@yahoo.com> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997449110 21873 128.29.251.13 (10 Aug 2001 13:11:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Aug 2001 13:11:50 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86950 CBFalconer writes: >David Scheidt wrote: >> WD-40 was invented in 1953 by Norm Larsen who worked for the Rocket >> Chemical Corporation (who changed their name to the WD-40 Company). >> It's been available commercially since 1958. It's the wrong tool for so >> many things, just like Vice-Grips and duct tape. >NEVER EVER use such delicate tools. A 4 foot pipe wrench is much >more suitable for cranky line printers. But be sure that it's a *calibrated" 4' pipe wrench, and that calibration is tracable to NBS. No, I do *not* mean NIST; this is an old-timers thread. Joe Morris ###### From: johnf@panix.com (John Francis) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 10 Aug 2001 12:54:02 -0400 Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <9l13ja$djd$1@panix3.panix.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <1166.621T2130T9505511@nowhere.in.particular> <997434479.20203.0.nnrp-07.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 997462442 21308 166.84.1.3 (10 Aug 2001 16:54:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Aug 2001 16:54:02 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!panix!news.panix.com!panix3.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86965 In article <997434479.20203.0.nnrp-07.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk>, Peter Ibbotson wrote: >"Charlie Gibbs" wrote in message >news:1166.621T2130T9505511@nowhere.in.particular... >> In article ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) >> writes: >> > [snip] >> >However... it is perceived to be a less-efficient means of >> >communicating "someone said and so I'm replying ." >> >People prefer putting your new comments at the bottom, >> >> Unfortunately, some newsreaders from Redmond do not. >> >I really must try and get a better newsreader. Sadly I think I'll find I'll >have to write myself, 'cos last time I looked most of the *nix ports to >windows were horrid (I have all the RFCs and most of MIME compatible reader >etc.) Yet another project to add to the list. The poor choice of windows-based news readers is one reason why I have a panix shell account. ###### From: rsteiner@isis.visi.com (Richard C. Steiner) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <1166.621T2130T9505511@nowhere.in.particular> <997434479.20203.0.nnrp-07.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> Organization: Vector Internet Services, Inc. Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Lines: 17 Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:45:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.98.98.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@visi.com X-Trace: ruti.visi.com 997469106 209.98.98.8 (Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:45:06 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:45:06 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!ruti.visi.com!rsteiner Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87014 In article <997434479.20203.0.nnrp-07.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk>, Peter Ibbotson wrote: >I really must try and get a better newsreader. Sadly I think I'll find I'll >have to write myself, 'cos last time I looked most of the *nix ports to >windows were horrid (I have all the RFCs and most of MIME compatible reader >etc.) Yet another project to add to the list. How long has it been since you last looked? Some Windows users like slrn, which is what I'm using here, but many of them seem to prefer GUI readers like Free Agent or Gravity. -- -Rich Steiner >>>---> rsteiner@visi.com >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN Written online using slrn 0.9.5.4! The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then. ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:51:15 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 15 Message-ID: <20010810205115.08d3bb0f.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <997352863.11503.0.nnrp-08.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <00Cc7.19200$N97.14646@news.iol.ie> NNTP-Posting-Host: p547.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997469501 36811 194.134.201.111 (10 Aug 2001 18:51:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:51:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:86997 On Thu, 09 Aug 2001 20:03:08 GMT "Lenina" wrote: > All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that > the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, > if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all > means, do not use a hammer. If I used a hammer to disassemble it how am I supposed to assmeble it without one ? -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 10 Aug 2001 23:04:54 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 18 Message-ID: <6upua3vd6x.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> <9kjcg0$cfu$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <343.620T2174T6895335@nowhere.in.particular> <9l0kd5$823$6@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 997477494 416 10.0.3.2 (10 Aug 2001 21:04:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Aug 2001 21:04:54 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87040 jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > In article <343.620T2174T6895335@nowhere.in.particular>, > "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: > > > >I did that recently. All I found were demons. > > [emoticon gets real cautious and says in a quiet voice] Daemons? > I didn't read about those in my "How to Become a Grownup" manual. They don't put such scary stuff into the normal users manuals. You need to go to the wizza^Wsysadmin manuals for that. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 12 Aug 01 11:49:44 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 15 Message-ID: <9l6447$cfk$7@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l2e30$2tr$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010811093221.42a2b291.steveo@eircom.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbMD4hTDKB8SEvyRXkESknXOM8dHxgY1eSM5jQADAiZIvYHO2RX/eu0 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Aug 2001 14:33:43 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-89 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87113 In article , Howard S Shubs wrote: >In article <20010811093221.42a2b291.steveo@eircom.net>, > Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > >> I though duct tape was for sealing mouths and securing limbs, at > >I -knew- I got that idea from some place! I've been >suggesting it for noisy children for -years-. I've been mentally applying it to noisy men. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 01 11:04:17 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9lba7i$b65$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <669.623T493T9023934@nowhere.in.particular> <3B76C9F3.31118B46@earthlink.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZx7NLcATPGWM/bv5fVaX7L5oTPDn2UIaFDK1bxLAx4BhwGVoZR3a+X X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 13:48:34 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.online.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!209-122-233-96 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87122 In article , Alexandre Pechtchanski wrote: >On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:34:15 GMT, jchausler wrote: > >>Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>> >And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. >>> >It was FORTRAN 2. >> >>There were a number of "variations" on FORTRAN II as well. I >>remember one for the PDP-8. > >I hope you remember it more fondly then I do - the >one thing I remember most >vividly is that it allowed to pass literals by reference >and would happily modify them. One of the most harrowing >bugs hunts I had when it redefined 1 to >be some other number :-( Wow! That one must have generated a lot of new vocabulary of swears. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 12 Aug 01 11:38:32 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 34 Message-ID: <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVY4iUFeRzBEKAz23SZWpFUt+rF0MhkQdfnzlcjEz0a2KJQCs/iOSh7r X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Aug 2001 14:22:32 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-89 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87123 In article <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net>, "Keith F. Lynch" wrote: >Morten Reistad wrote: >> And you programmed in Fortran66. (No strings; arithmetic ifs) > >And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. >It was FORTRAN 2. > >Later you used FORTRAN 4, which had logical IF statements, not >just arithmetic ones: > >FORTRAN 2: IF (A-B) 30,30,50 I don't recall this construct being available. The FORTRAN-II I learned was on an IBM 1620. > >FORTRAN 4: IF (A.GT.B) GOTO 50 > >It also had strings, but they were called literals, and didn't use >quote marks, but were preceded by a number and an H. > >FORTRAN 4: FORMAT (2I3X11HHELLO WORLD3X5I) I hated counting those Holleriths. I'm glad I never had to do any card changing for you. I liked having comma delimiters. ;-) /BAH /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 12 Aug 01 11:35:29 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <9l639g$cfk$2@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> <9kjcg0$cfu$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <343.620T2174T6895335@nowhere.in.particular> <9l0kd5$823$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <6upua3vd6x.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbY9AeBHiHvDp3FN86yHaHbAcW0ukXp7ANNgKyAhLCq1FXFr49acr/6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Aug 2001 14:19:28 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-89 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87125 In article <6upua3vd6x.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >> In article <343.620T2174T6895335@nowhere.in.particular>, >> "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >> > >> >I did that recently. All I found were demons. >> >> [emoticon gets real cautious and says in a quiet voice] Daemons? >> I didn't read about those in my "How to Become a Grownup" manual. > >They don't put such scary stuff into the normal users manuals. You >need to go to the wizza^Wsysadmin manuals for that. Sir! We didn't put out ditz manuals. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 12 Aug 01 11:47:50 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9l640m$cfk$6@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbqyL/PpB9VrTZIO3yXC+iNFIat8dGdwhpm9jZ02wi9RE+Rb6tBVLrq X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Aug 2001 14:31:50 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-89 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87126 In article , Mike Spencer wrote: > >nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) quoth: >> [snip] >> ...but duct tape...is it the fabric based 2" silver or black tape >> with a glue so strong it sticks to just about anything (to itself, >> permananently!) which the film and TV industry calls 'gaffer tape'? > >It was *once* such. In my area, that lovely stuff has entered the >realm of folklore. Here, duct tape is now a very thin layer of >(vinyl?) weather-degradeable plastic over stickum-impregnated cheese >cloth. The stickum (that's atechnical term) is still pretty good but >the substrate is the pits. > >Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. The last roll of *real* duct tape I >saw, I picked up in New Hampshire in the early 80s. Where do I get >*real* duct tape now? Gak! End of the Universe Predicted. >Film...etc. > Hey! I was told that Canada had Real Duct Tape. I was planning on shopping when I passed through to Michigan. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 12 Aug 01 11:44:49 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVa1diFkyiPrlm9HmP1L+efHv/uLj0gaJwvMsKvhmKQFe0qv6d0qefek X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Aug 2001 14:28:48 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-89 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87127 In article <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >> >> I use duct tape. What's a Vice-Grip? P.S. I know how >> use a wrench. > >The most well-known brand of locking pliers. to be used only when >you've alread screwed up and rounded the nut... Ooohh. I was thinking about vices, clamps and such things. Now I know what you're talking about. > >As opposed to a Crescent wrench, of course, which should never be >used. So how come mine is always so close to the pile of tools? [suspicious emoticon feeling the wind of a whoosh over its head] Why shouldn't a Crescent wrench ever be used? I haven't played with bolts yet..just spackling, wood putty, and a drill that screws. I got three of four screws to work yesterday. :-)))) /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 12 Aug 01 11:57:12 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 23 Message-ID: <9l64i8$cfk$9@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYoSPh8wV1uJAs8YPwHoYgWAlvtG5cOAvdJvlbgPJq418WCYhJY4N4l X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Aug 2001 14:41:12 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-89 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87128 In article , Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: >Charles Richmond writes: > >> > High speed printers have problems of their own. Like the time one of >> > the sites we supported called our user support desk to complain that >> > blank fan-fold paper was rapidly spewing out non-stop in a parabolic >> > arc. The user support drone looked in his manual, under "printer >> > problems," and mindlessly recited the first thing he saw. "Can you >> > fax it to us?" The client was not amused. >> > >> The only time I have seen printers spew paper this way is when some >> dunce printed 500 lines, each with a top-of-form character in column >> one... > >you see it when somebody messes up a carriage control tape and there >is no hole for skip to column one. > Or a broken control tape. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 12 Aug 01 11:46:28 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 36 Message-ID: <9l63u3$cfk$5@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B759917.7FBD0D91@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYyesNvBET7gdKfDAi+PddKmsaj+QKc7zj3GMdMplu1VW02541Dmubb X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Aug 2001 14:30:27 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-89 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87130 In article <3B759917.7FBD0D91@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> In article , >> ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: >> >In article <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, >> >David Scheidt wrote: >> >>It's been available commercially since 1958. It's the wrong tool for so >> >>many things, just like Vice-Grips and duct tape. >> > >> >Wrong tool for Vice-Grips and duct tape? Name one. >> >> I use duct tape. What's a Vice-Grip? P.S. I know how >> use a wrench. >> >> > >> >(Give me a Vice-Grips long enough, and a place to stand...) >> > >> Where would I have to stand to get a carpenter, a plumber >> and/or an electrician to do repair work? >> >Calcutta, India. I don't think Congress will let me import one. > ...And if you are lucky, the carpenter, plumber, >and electrician will *not* be unionized... > [*hot button*] Don't talk to me about fucking unions. They have achieved my shit list this summer. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 01 11:07:28 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 29 Message-ID: <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZ6cWsYGGpxT+kzSvEKc2Xkd1ZbNsGgHUy3OIso2HIB17GzC2Q49juw X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 13:51:46 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!209-122-233-96 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87139 In article , Howard S Shubs wrote: >In article <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> Okay. I simply don't remember it :-). Chalk it up to a long-time >> brain fart. > >I chalk it up to sanity: you erased the memory as unworthy. Arithmetic IF >statements were nasty. No. They were useful..just a PITA and care to set up. > > >> Yup. Yup. I've written them. I just didn't associate it with >> FORTRAN II. Probably because I remember cheering when FORTRAN IV >> included computed GOTOs. > >....which were also in FORTRAN II. Got the IBM reference book right here, >"FORTRAN II General Information Manual" from the "IBM Systems Reference >Library", file number GENL-25, GF28-8074-3, December 1963 edition (minor >revision of the 1961 edition), page 24. At this point, I have no idea what we are arguing about. I thought I was reminiscing(sp?). /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 01 11:11:37 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 34 Message-ID: <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B77F773.1C8AD2B1@yahoo.com> <9lb2fc$llh$7@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZK6uMnaRJdxCYtYQqvQEBP5najKjC5NIiEO6GekMzjY9KDQi0uJAg1 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 13:55:54 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.online.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!209-122-233-96 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87140 In article , "Don Ames" wrote: >BAH; > >It seems as if a copy of the book described here would be useful to you... > >http://settlinger.home.mindspring.com/bookindex.html Thanks. I'll take a look when I get to the library. Things are really bad at the library. It used to be that the terminals were always available; now they're always in use. > >It's the Complete guide to everything sold in hardware stores. Does it have left- and right-pondian translations? >I don't have my own copy. (It's a man thing to KNOW >this stuff, even if we really don't). That explains some of it. It usually takes me three retries before I figure out I'm bumping my nose against a "guy thing". >As the "Red Green" show segment says, "Repeat after me" "I >don't know", being the three words that a man can never utter. "Red Green"? Is this a TV show? Or a seminar? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 01 09:03:27 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <9lb351$llh$10@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <3B7808F4.86823E39@thinkage.ca> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbFii7DRRMZt4m/wZooyPiB+jaiFjrm1WbXTJmV6YCNx7dSqsu8DZCL X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 11:47:45 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.online.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-23 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87142 In article , ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: >In article <3B7808F4.86823E39@thinkage.ca>, >Alan T. Bowler wrote: >>3) Gaffer tape is usually black (not silver) to go with the theatre >> convention. "If it's black the audience will pretend they >> can't see it." > >Well, if you're setting up a photograph, you may also be concerned >about unintended illumination from non-black parts of the world. At >least, that's the very strong impression I got from the Chrysler >photographic folks when they were doing internal publicity photos for >one of our projects. Nuther use for black tape: to stick over existing >shiny places, so that they do not cause reflections. We used Vaseline for that. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 12 Aug 01 11:55:22 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 43 Message-ID: <9l64eq$cfk$8@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9krekc$137$16@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010808194912.395baea6.steveo@eircom.net> <531bntg7gitmecrrd7krmd4boevdmjeht3@4ax.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZ8Br7mhkqH+acpjeOg6kzj4NODEbqG8pQDlcCqEsPy6HmliWKvKuag X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Aug 2001 14:39:22 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-89 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87144 In article <531bntg7gitmecrrd7krmd4boevdmjeht3@4ax.com>, David Powell wrote: >On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 19:49:12 +0200, Steve O'Hara-Smith > in alt.folklore.computers wrote: > >>On Wed, 08 Aug 01 10:42:09 GMT >>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >>> There was really a piece of gear that could to this? Wow! I >>> could have saved me from a lot of pain due to paper cuts. I >>> finally figured out that a pencil worked just as well as >>> my finger. >> >> A 12" ruler worked even better when I was doing it. > >We usually had a student apprentice to perform that task. >If it was a big job, we would borrow another one from the guys next >door and sit them down one on either side of a table, to work as a >push-pull pair. The difficult bit was to get them to reproduce the >function of the output transformer primary. To keep them from >becoming bored, we multi tasked the job with formatting DECtapes and >punching paper tape. Occasionally we would give them a fan-fold >binary paper tape to burst, just to see what happened. And how many of those poor slobs became real computer people? Nothing like boredom to generate strange computer behaviour...especially when the sun didn't shine. > >The best tool for the job was an 18SWG steel 1/2U high 19" rack >blanking plate, but only in experienced hands, and never for push-pull >operation. You had had strange rituals. I do remember the boss popping out of his office one day wondering what all the racket was. I had the 407 printing, the sorter sorting, the interpreter clunking and the duplicator munching. That one was a really good job. Every once in while some prof would have a challenging task that needed thinking and tight coordination. I liked handling cards. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 11 Aug 01 10:50:25 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbtTxSoFbPWBNqnarcCuK6zd/e2+51sjCac1HuSsVxagiFVgwkbp94R X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Aug 2001 13:34:14 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-45 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87146 In article , ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: >In article <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, >David Scheidt wrote: >>It's been available commercially since 1958. It's the wrong tool for so >>many things, just like Vice-Grips and duct tape. > >Wrong tool for Vice-Grips and duct tape? Name one. I use duct tape. What's a Vice-Grip? P.S. I know how use a wrench. > >(Give me a Vice-Grips long enough, and a place to stand...) > Where would I have to stand to get a carpenter, a plumber and/or an electrician to do repair work? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 01 08:58:39 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 10 Message-ID: <9lb2s1$llh$9@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9l8lp5$62t$1@top.mitre.org> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYG8HlmoDPXD94jaEb+jT9iZTBUfO0WWwS+lXRLp8CYwAjo+lIbHAh2 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 11:42:57 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-23 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87147 In article <9l8lp5$62t$1@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >....you remember the 36-bit vs 32-bit debates. And you're still >waiting for DEC to deliver the long-promised Jupiter systems. I'm deja vu'ing all over again with their Alpha mess. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 01 09:29:30 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 33 Message-ID: <9l8g9j$dgr$8@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYgNIUMq5tyt7TXJbl/5x4XMvnl/VTV0voB4P+6rWtXwJDxVpVWJIWB X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 12:13:39 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-172 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87150 In article , rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner) wrote: >Here in alt.folklore.computers, Charles Richmond >spake unto us, saying: > >>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >>>"Keith F. Lynch" wrote: >>> >>> >FORTRAN 2: IF (A-B) 30,30,50 >>> >>> I don't recall this construct being available. The FORTRAN-II >>> I learned was on an IBM 1620. >>> >>My first real programming was in FORTRAN II on an IBM 1620...I >>can vouch for this statement syntax. It was called an >>"arithmetic if statement". The program would branch to one of >>the three statements based on whether the expression in >>parenthesis was negative, zero, or positive. > >Yup. Good for binary searches . > >I still run into programs where it appears the Arithmetic IF was the >only type of IF statement the original author was familiar with. FORTRAN II had so many obvious things that needed to be implemented to make programming smooth. Since I was wet behind my computing ears back then, I just figured that it was impossilbe to implement. Then I grew and learned how development was done. :-) /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 01 09:27:29 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 64 Message-ID: <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaHyQsuLhIdvT6AfSVqVTm0+C29Y5McgwMTEm9gc8aQT8SugEVl2uOw X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 12:11:38 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-172 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87152 In article <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> In article <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net>, >> "Keith F. Lynch" wrote: >> >Morten Reistad wrote: >> >> And you programmed in Fortran66. (No strings; arithmetic ifs) >> > >> >And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. >> >It was FORTRAN 2. >> > >> >Later you used FORTRAN 4, which had logical IF statements, not >> >just arithmetic ones: >> > >> >FORTRAN 2: IF (A-B) 30,30,50 >> >> I don't recall this construct being available. The FORTRAN-II >> I learned was on an IBM 1620. >> >My first real programming was in FORTRAN II on an IBM 1620...I >can vouch for this statement syntax. Okay. I simply don't remember it :-). Chalk it up to a long-time brain fart. > ...It was called an >"arithmetic if statement". The program would branch to one of >the three statements based on whether the expression in >parenthesis was negative, zero, or positive. Yup. Yup. I've written them. I just didn't associate it with FORTRAN II. Probably because I remember cheering when FORTRAN IV included computed GOTOs. >> >> > >> >FORTRAN 4: IF (A.GT.B) GOTO 50 >> > >> >It also had strings, but they were called literals, and didn't use >> >quote marks, but were preceded by a number and an H. >> > >> >FORTRAN 4: FORMAT (2I3X11HHELLO WORLD3X5I) >> >> I hated counting those Holleriths. I'm glad I never had >> to do any card changing for you. I liked having comma >> delimiters. ;-) >> >Yeah, the Hollerith fields were just mistakes waiting to happen... yea. Usually mine because my subtraction were always off by one and I ended up counting them with a pencil anyway. >Newbies also often had a problem with punching a column or two >past column 72... > My drum cards didn't allow that. I hated it when the Hollerith spilled onto continuation cards. It put a cramp in my keypunching speed. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 01 08:51:54 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 48 Message-ID: <9lb2fc$llh$7@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B77F773.1C8AD2B1@yahoo.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaTmgf5o7az0O3aGb9KGtMGzQ29IYoqyiZ6OTSx5492rZvf7mIJD37Q X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 11:36:12 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-23 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87155 In article <3B77F773.1C8AD2B1@yahoo.com>, CBFalconer wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> In article <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, >> Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >> >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >> >> >As opposed to a Crescent wrench, of course, which should never be >> >> >used. So how come mine is always so close to the pile of tools? >> >> >> >> [suspicious emoticon feeling the wind of a whoosh over its head] >> >> Why shouldn't a Crescent wrench ever be used? >> > >> >Two reasons -- there's a moving part in there, so the jaws spread a >> >bit and tend to round nuts. Second reason is that by the time you've >> >tightened a nut with one, you're virtually certain to have wound up >> >with it a bit looser than it should be, again tending to round nuts. >> >> That's the same problems I'm getting with screwing (or rather >> unscrewing) this week. Is there a vice equivalent for a screwdriver? > >You can buy an impact tool with both Phillips and normal bits for >about $5..10. To use it on the fouled Phillips heads, set the >rotation direction and bang on the tool head with a hammer or >other blunt instrument. Lo and behold, it loosens. NEAT!!!! I keep discovering that those carpenter guys have thought of everything. However, I've found that to buy one I need a magic incantation. It's terribly embarrassing to ask for a device with a description of its use and have a blank stare for an answer. The hardware store types who don't like females invading their territory require the correct lingo. > .. You may need >to apply discretion to the bang amplitude. That's been one of the more frustrating aspects of my project. My skin hurts so much that I can't grip anything well. So a small task like screwing by hand into wood has become almost impossible. And I didn't watch the carpenters when they were building new houses as closely as I should have. I'm still trying to figure out how I use the drill wrong when trying to attach blue board. Having a work style of planning the work so that I never make a mistake is not helping either :-). /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 01 09:34:02 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVY3XIMqfTuNRiNEGJKmBFmqk2q9Bs01Xxmn2Cc3aHho7qLv9PqtxuYt X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 12:18:10 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-172 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87156 In article <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >> >As opposed to a Crescent wrench, of course, which should never be >> >used. So how come mine is always so close to the pile of tools? >> >> [suspicious emoticon feeling the wind of a whoosh over its head] >> Why shouldn't a Crescent wrench ever be used? > >Two reasons -- there's a moving part in there, so the jaws spread a >bit and tend to round nuts. Second reason is that by the time you've >tightened a nut with one, you're virtually certain to have wound up >with it a bit looser than it should be, again tending to round nuts. That's the same problems I'm getting with screwing (or rather unscrewing) this week. Is there a vice equivalent for a screwdriver? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 01 09:39:20 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 40 Message-ID: <9l8gs1$dgr$11@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaSPYlSoaQy+aWKLxtUdIU7GAYgRpAdd3jYTrWyD07xQ8bxXU/WoLvM X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 12:23:29 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-172 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87162 In article , "Don Chiasson" wrote: > >"Bernd Felsche" wrote in message >news:bbo5l9.d3h.ln@innovative.iinet.net.au... >> >> Not quite... >> >> Duct tape is a thin (usually metalised) adhesive >> tape used for connecting/sealing airconditioning/ventilation >> ducts. Hence the name. It's also useful for fixing gutters >> and for connecting binary rotating stars. :-) >> >> The fabric-based tape is sometimes referred to as "cloth tape". >> Glue strength is about the same for duct and gaffer tape. >> >> There's a "Gaffa" brand name applied to both types, to confuddle the >> issue. > > The stuff I use on my heating ducts is thin and metallized. The >stuff I call duct tape is the cloth backed tape. Not anymore. The crap I have now seems to be plastic. And it stretches when I try to unwind it from the reel. > ... I've also heard it >called bookbinding tape and gun tape. > It's a guy thing: if it moves and it;s not supposed to, use >duct tape. If it's supposed to move and doesn't, use WD-40. I'll have to remember that. Does WD-40 work on couch potatoes? ;-) I've been using duct tape to keep plaster dust from falling down through cracks. It's also a good temporary measure to those spiders out, too. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 01 09:31:08 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 16 Message-ID: <9l8gck$dgr$9@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZzv7+GhiSneT6cTkHvkDYwtLtrii4bVAp2pbwBimvsMtm0DM4ni9md X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 12:15:16 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-172 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87163 In article , javnews@earthlink.net (John Varela) wrote: >On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:44:49, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> I was thinking about vices, > >Care to share your thoughts? > Beats the shit outa me since you took the comment out of context. That's the second time you've done that. You're talking with creaky, cranky old people who can't tie their shoelaces anymore. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 01 08:52:40 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 30 Message-ID: <9lb2gr$llh$8@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l8gck$dgr$9@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVb3BAuDWFgfiiv9WvMZG2I2FBSyJ2ORQZ/qXUWpR5tb1ytmO27WiYlj X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 11:36:59 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-23 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87164 In article , javnews@earthlink.net (John Varela) wrote: >On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:31:08, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> In article >> , >> javnews@earthlink.net (John Varela) wrote: >> >On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:44:49, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> > >> >> I was thinking about vices, >> > >> >Care to share your thoughts? >> > >> Beats the shit outa me since you took the comment out of context. >> That's the second time you've done that. You're talking with >> creaky, cranky old people who can't tie their shoelaces anymore. > >No context was needed here, but I'll refresh your memory anyway. The things >you surely were thinking about were vises, but what you said you were >thinking about were vices. vise != vice > I completely missed that. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 11 Aug 01 10:54:16 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <9l3cft$bpl$8@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3b74a6d2$0$330$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZgK7eYgJkvC21kOo0W743zVbC+RjNnFVsTSVN5UyMkLfJajunxWYGY X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Aug 2001 13:38:05 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-45 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87166 In article <3b74a6d2$0$330$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net>, seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) wrote: >In article <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net>, >Keith F. Lynch wrote: >>to screw up -- the paper was starting to not fold correctly. In >>frustration I threw a pen at it. The pen bounced off the wall, and >>hit the paper just right, fixing the problem. I wish I had had a >>camera to capture the look of amazement in my coworker's faces. > >A friend of mine had a temp job, and it sucked (the staff didn't respect >her), so she photocopied a pen 500 times, and put the paper back in the >bin. So, all these people were looking at the copier and trying to find >the pen that was obviously "trapped in the copier somewhere", until the >repair guy showed up, and nearly bust a gut laughing. ROTFL. Beautiful. She sounds like a hot shit; I wish I had her moxie. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 01 09:07:02 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 45 Message-ID: <9lb3bo$llh$11@bob.news.rcn.net> References: X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbFzq9gzXe7RrWaFgeEixemk9r+wueOLrRFeHz8TzH3ykQvMoRkki7C X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 11:51:20 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-23 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87172 In article <997770755snz@dsl.co.uk>, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: >In article javnews@earthlink.net "John Varela" writes: > >> On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:31:08, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> > In article >> > , >> > javnews@earthlink.net (John Varela) wrote: >> > >On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:44:49, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> > > >> > >> I was thinking about vices, >> > > >> > >Care to share your thoughts? >> > > >> > Beats the shit outa me since you took the comment out of context. >> > That's the second time you've done that. You're talking with >> > creaky, cranky old people who can't tie their shoelaces anymore. >> >> No context was needed here, but I'll refresh your memory anyway. The things >> you surely were thinking about were vises, but what you said you were >> thinking about were vices. vise != vice > >Not in ENGLISH; the tool and the predilection are spelt the same way. So >too is the preposition to indicate substitution for, as in vice-admiral >(or even Gen. so-and-so vice Gen. such-and-such used to describe Service >appointments). > >Whereas we *differentiate* between verb and noun forms of advise/advice, >license/licence, etc., but AmEnglish doesn't. One might think that if >we'd verbed the noun for the tool that it would be spelt vise, but it >isn't; that spelling occurs outside N.Am. only in an obsolete verb >meaning to look at. > >So the only question remaining is: how come Barbara's speaking BrEnglish? The only mystery books worth reading are those written by BrEnglish authors. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 12 Aug 01 09:30:02 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 12 Message-ID: <363.624T111T5703352@nowhere.in.particular> References: <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <30jcntg0pqpo6pr4crj893j0vqcua2dbbi@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-271.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87273 In article <30jcntg0pqpo6pr4crj893j0vqcua2dbbi@4ax.com> djim55@tychotowndatasync.com (D.J.) writes: >gaffer tape and duct tape are 2 different things. According to some >theatrical stage techs I know. The quickest way to differentiate them is by looking at the price tags. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 11 Aug 01 15:02:09 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: <669.623T493T9023934@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-382.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87277 In article <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch) writes: >And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. >It was FORTRAN 2. > >Later you used FORTRAN 4, which had logical IF statements, not >just arithmetic ones: We always used Roman numerals: FORTRAN II and FORTRAN IV. (It's nice to see FORTRAN and COBOL properly capitalized again.) >You never could find out whatever happened to FORTRAN 3. It would be >a mystery for the rest of your life. True, but just to muddy the waters Univac's 1100 compiler was called FORTRAN V. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 01 11:28:07 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 26 Message-ID: <574.625T378T6883439@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net><3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com><9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net><669.623T493T9023934@nowhere.in.particular><3b76bdd4.78238602@news.shuswap.net> <20010813074617.0bdc0234.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-620.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87279 In article <20010813074617.0bdc0234.steveo@eircom.net> steveo@eircom.net (Steve O'Hara-Smith) writes: >On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:32:46 GMT >genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) wrote: > GW>> There was also Waterloo FORTRAN IV (a student compiler): GW>> WATFIV (pronounced "watt five"). > > I always thought that should have been WATFOR. WATFOR? FORMAT! Matrix? Arrgh... as Ted Nelson once scribbled in "Computer Lib": OS/MVT OS/MFT LS/MFT TGIF -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 01 09:46:29 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: <440.625T1451T5865000@nowhere.in.particular> References: <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9l7uon$d3i$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-749.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.stealth.net!204.127.161.2.MISMATCH!wn2feed!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!209.155.233.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87283 In article <9l7uon$d3i$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> rojaws@mac.com (Roger Johnstone) writes: >Not to mention a Duck brand duct tape. > > "A roll of that Duck tape please" > "Duct tape?" > "No, Duck tape" > "This one here, duct tape?" "Give me a four-volt, two-watt bulb." "For what?" "No, two." "Two what?" "That's right." Thank you, Abbott and Costello. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 01 22:57:13 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 59 Message-ID: <2330.625T671T13773588@nowhere.in.particular> References: <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> <9l8l3i$5sr$1@top.mitre.org> <3b78268d.170597736@news.shuswap.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-096.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87300 In article <3b78268d.170597736@news.shuswap.net> genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) writes: >jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >[snip] >>...which makes me recall another candidate for the YKYGOW list: >> >>You remember edge-coated punched cards. > > Unh! Got me! Me too. > While we're on the topic, special cards for FORTRAN (notched >in the top right instead of top left) and institutional cards (or >whatever they were called: cards with a particular institution's >name on them). Although Doug Jones no doubt has all of us beaten, I did manage to build up a decent collection of different cards, thanks to the tendency of one shop where I worked to purchase a local card manufacturer's overruns for cheap. (We did go through a lot of cards before we hung those newfangled disk drives on our machine. For that matter, we went through a lot of cards afterwards, too, because even when we processed stuff on disk we'd punch out new cards to put back on the shelf for next month - this had something to do with my accepting a job offer from a "real" disk shop sometime later.) Some of these manufacturer's overruns were pretty bad - occasionally we'd get a batch that would jam constantly, and the operators' mutterings would become pretty foul. Sometimes the cards would stick together well enough that I could stand an inch-thick stack of cards on edge and they'd sit there like a solid block of wood. When I tried holding one end and whacking the other end against my hand I almost broke my fingers. But I digress. Although most cards had a left corner cut, right corner cuts weren't unknown (whether for FORTRAN source or otherwise). I think I have a card or two with both corners cut. And, of course, you have to add in the combinations of cards whose uncut corners were square, not round - although these were usually special-purpose or single-use cards, because square corners tended to fray quickly. Bottom cuts were pretty much verboten - especially the bottom left corner, which wouldn't feed through an IBM keypunch because that's where the pinch roller grabbed a card to pull it through the punch station. But I once punched one on a Univac keypunch (which used pusher blades) out of sheer orneriness. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 01 10:27:51 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 33 Message-ID: <1348.625T2565T6275650@nowhere.in.particular> References: <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> <9l8l3i$5sr$1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-751.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87301 In article <9l8l3i$5sr$1@top.mitre.org> jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: >Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes: > >>Charles Richmond writes: >> >>> The only time I have seen printers spew paper this way is when some >>> dunce printed 500 lines, each with a top-of-form character in column >>> one... >> >>you see it when somebody messes up a carriage control tape and there >>is no hole for skip to column one. > >...or when the operator hasn't been keeping an eye on the carriage >tape, allowing normal wear-and-tear to rip the sprocket holes. The >result was that the tape would sit motionless while the paper was >being slewed; since the punched hole in the tape never reached the >brushes, the slew continued until the operator ran over to the printer >and hit the "CARRIAGE STOP" button. I always found it amusing that printers from the mighty IBM had this problem, which was nothing more than a design oversight. The printer on the lowly Univac 9300 (Univac's answer to the IBM 360/20) would sense this condition and stop with a "forms runaway" error - complete with its own hardware sense bit - before the paper had moved 3 feet. Heck, even the Univac 1004 (a hopped-up electronic version of the IBM 407) did this. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### Message-ID: <3B7442A7.CA1DED6F@thinkage.ca> From: "Alan T. Bowler" Organization: Thinkage Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010809213005.6883d086.steveo@eircom.net> <997401840snz@dsl.co.uk> <9l0kkm$823$8@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:23:03 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.102.11.4 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 997474982 192.102.11.4 (Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:23:02 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:23:02 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87069 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article <997401840snz@dsl.co.uk>, > bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: > >In article <20010809213005.6883d086.steveo@eircom.net> > > steveo@eircom.net "Steve O'Hara-Smith" writes: > > > >> On Thu, 09 Aug 01 10:27:19 GMT > >> jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > But I never had a 12" ruler behind my ear. > >> > >> It was kept by the printer. > > > >Why did he want a ruler? Well, not a 12" one, anyway. Now something > >calibrated in true points might have been of some use to this mythical > >printer... > > > Hah! This triggered a memory. Wasn't there a steel ruler > that was too long to carry around but every card handler needed > one? They were handed out by Moore salesmen. Really quite useful. I didn't have much use for the card markings, but they also had 1/10ths marked, and great for doing printer report layout. (that was why they were so long.) As usual, they were usually found in offices of PHBs who had the little use for them. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 11 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 21:05:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.213.74.25 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 997477532 141.213.74.25 (Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:05:32 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:05:32 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87253 In article <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, David Scheidt wrote: >It's been available commercially since 1958. It's the wrong tool for so >many things, just like Vice-Grips and duct tape. Wrong tool for Vice-Grips and duct tape? Name one. (Give me a Vice-Grips long enough, and a place to stand...) -- Sergej Roytman ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <997352863.11503.0.nnrp-08.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <00Cc7.19200$N97.14646@news.iol.ie> <20010810205115.08d3bb0f.steveo@eircom.net> Organization: Daedalus Consulting X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Lines: 7 Message-ID: <2iZc7.3237$ww1.312864@news02.tsnz.net> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:32:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.144.16 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tsnz.net X-Trace: news02.tsnz.net 997482750 203.96.144.16 (Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:32:30 NZST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:32:30 NZST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news02.tsnz.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87207 Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > If I used a hammer to disassemble it how am I supposed to assmeble >it without one ? You didn't. You probably used a different wrong tool, like vicegrips. -- don ###### Message-ID: <3B746C1A.642D4C20@ev1.net> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:19:55 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6e2ad0.501001494@enews.newsguy.com> <9kjcg0$cfu$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <343.620T2174T6895335@nowhere.in.particular> <9l0kd5$823$6@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997478441 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (10 Aug 2001 16:20:41 -0500) Lines: 24 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87367 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article <343.620T2174T6895335@nowhere.in.particular>, > "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: > >In article <9kjcg0$cfu$2@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com (jmfbahciv) > >writes: > > > >>Since I don't have card, therefore I'm not an Old Fart. > >>whew! I was going to check the mirror for grey nose hairs. > > > >I did that recently. All I found were demons. > > [emoticon gets real cautious and says in a quiet voice] Daemons? > I didn't read about those in my "How to Become a Grownup" manual. > IIRC, this "nasal demon" refers to a statement made at the ANSI C Standards Committee. Commenting on something that was to cause "unspecified behavior", someone said that it could cause "demons to come out of my nose..." -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: "Keith F. Lynch" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 10 Aug 2001 20:13:49 -0400 Organization: United Individualist Lines: 40 Message-ID: <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: saltmine.radix.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!saltmine.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87190 Frank McConnell wrote: > I think I put the fear of catastrophe in some folks once by walking > away from the decollator while it was churning through three-part > small at full speed. The fanfold printer itself is also something you don't want to walk away from. We had one dot matrix printer literally destroy itself during an unattended overnight run. A new print head and platen would have cost more than a new printer. I considered simply reversing the platen, to get a smooth surface, until I remembered that I had already done so the previous year, the last time this had happened. (Not that that would have saved us from having to get a new print head.) One time a printer on the far side of the room from me was starting to screw up -- the paper was starting to not fold correctly. In frustration I threw a pen at it. The pen bounced off the wall, and hit the paper just right, fixing the problem. I wish I had had a camera to capture the look of amazement in my coworker's faces. Another time, paper was getting grease spots on it. I disassembled and thoroughly cleaned the printer three times, before discovering that the source of the grease was a potato chip in the paper box. I never would have guessed that there's enough grease in one potato chip to stain dozens of sheets of paper. This was a slow speed printer, if you hadn't guessed already. High speed printers have problems of their own. Like the time one of the sites we supported called our user support desk to complain that blank fan-fold paper was rapidly spewing out non-stop in a parabolic arc. The user support drone looked in his manual, under "printer problems," and mindlessly recited the first thing he saw. "Can you fax it to us?" The client was not amused. -- Keith F. Lynch - kfl@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/ I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but unsolicited bulk e-mail sent to thousands of randomly collected addresses is not acceptable, and I do complain to the spammer's ISP. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <343.620T2174T6895335@nowhere.in.particular> <9l0kd5$823$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B746C1A.642D4C20@ev1.net> Organization: Plethora . Net - More Net, Less Spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Originator: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Date: 11 Aug 2001 03:28:24 GMT Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3b74a658$0$330$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 99089dda.news.plethora.net X-Trace: 997500504 gemini.plethora.net 330 seebs@205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!gemini.plethora.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87255 In article <3B746C1A.642D4C20@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >IIRC, this "nasal demon" refers to a statement made at the ANSI C >Standards Committee. No, originally it was either comp.lang.c or comp.std.c. I think it was Dan Pop. -s -- Copyright 2001, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net +--- Need quality network services, server-grade computers, or a shell? ---+ v C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! v Consulting, computers, web hosting, and shell access: http://www.plethora.net/ ###### From: "Keith F. Lynch" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 10 Aug 2001 23:30:12 -0400 Organization: United Individualist Lines: 31 Message-ID: <9l28s4$f71$1@saltmine.radix.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ke8sp$fpo$1@top.mitre.org> <3B6B2600.3D632DF0@yahoo.com> <3B6C7B2E.AA8CB6D9@boutel.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: saltmine.radix.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!131958!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!saltmine.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87176 Brian Boutel wrote: > To be more precise, the stereo coding had the side-to-side as the > sum L+R and the hill-and-dale as the difference L-R. No. L information and R information were both encoded horizontally, each at a 45 degree angle from the length of the groove, and at a 90 degree angle from each other. > That way a mono pickup would play the sum, which was better than > just playing one channel, Yes, since the mono pickup was looking for information at a 90 degree angle to the length of the groove. > and a stereo pickup would play a mono record correctly. Yes. > In effect, L and R were modulations at 45 degrees to the vertical. No. There was never any vertical information on records (except 78s). Vertical information requires a heavy stylus, which causes distortion and rapid wear. Styluses (styli?) for 33s were very light, and had counterweights to make them even lighter. -- Keith F. Lynch - kfl@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/ I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but unsolicited bulk e-mail sent to thousands of randomly collected addresses is not acceptable, and I do complain to the spammer's ISP. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> Organization: Plethora . Net - More Net, Less Spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Originator: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Date: 11 Aug 2001 03:30:26 GMT Lines: 19 Message-ID: <3b74a6d2$0$330$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 99089dda.news.plethora.net X-Trace: 997500626 gemini.plethora.net 330 seebs@205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!gemini.plethora.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87267 In article <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net>, Keith F. Lynch wrote: >to screw up -- the paper was starting to not fold correctly. In >frustration I threw a pen at it. The pen bounced off the wall, and >hit the paper just right, fixing the problem. I wish I had had a >camera to capture the look of amazement in my coworker's faces. A friend of mine had a temp job, and it sucked (the staff didn't respect her), so she photocopied a pen 500 times, and put the paper back in the bin. So, all these people were looking at the copier and trying to find the pen that was obviously "trapped in the copier somewhere", until the repair guy showed up, and nearly bust a gut laughing. -s -- Copyright 2001, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net +--- Need quality network services, server-grade computers, or a shell? ---+ v C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! v Consulting, computers, web hosting, and shell access: http://www.plethora.net/ ###### From: "Keith F. Lynch" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 10 Aug 2001 23:44:41 -0400 Organization: United Individualist Lines: 28 Message-ID: <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: saltmine.radix.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!saltmine.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87184 Morten Reistad wrote: > And you programmed in Fortran66. (No strings; arithmetic ifs) And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. It was FORTRAN 2. Later you used FORTRAN 4, which had logical IF statements, not just arithmetic ones: FORTRAN 2: IF (A-B) 30,30,50 FORTRAN 4: IF (A.GT.B) GOTO 50 It also had strings, but they were called literals, and didn't use quote marks, but were preceded by a number and an H. FORTRAN 4: FORMAT (2I3X11HHELLO WORLD3X5I) And comments could go anywhere, if there was a C in column 1. In FORTRAN 2, comments had to fit in columns 73 through 80. You never could find out whatever happened to FORTRAN 3. It would be a mystery for the rest of your life. -- Keith F. Lynch - kfl@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/ I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but unsolicited bulk e-mail sent to thousands of randomly collected addresses is not acceptable, and I do complain to the spammer's ISP. ###### From: dscheidt@tumbolia.com (David Scheidt) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 11 Aug 2001 04:59:12 GMT Lines: 14 Sender: David Scheidt Message-ID: <9l2e30$2tr$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaU1mNGseVdFPnIfAv823KEqkKwgv+rF+GQ3fntgkZjON7fvfSffNkz X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Aug 2001 04:59:12 GMT Keywords: Or a swallow, even! User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!f.de.uu.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87114 Sergej Roytman wrote: : In article <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, : David Scheidt wrote: :>It's been available commercially since 1958. It's the wrong tool for so :>many things, just like Vice-Grips and duct tape. : Wrong tool for Vice-Grips and duct tape? Name one. Removing nuts and sealing ducts. They're closer wrong tools, then say, a coconut. -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ###### From: dowe@krikkit.localdomain (Dowe Keller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> <9kmfpe$qnl$1@news.panix.com> <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.3pl4 (Linux) NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.169.219.102 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.169.219.102 Date: 10 Aug 2001 22:58:41 -0700 X-Trace: 10 Aug 2001 22:58:41 -0700, 206.169.219.102 Lines: 12 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.155.26.10 Organization: news.sierratel.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news.sierratel.com!dowe Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87435 On Mon, 06 Aug 2001 19:12:25 -0400, freddy1X wrote: >... you've used a monochrome screen display with burn-in. I've got two in this very room. A Mac Plus, and an old Kaypro with an amber screen. You should really stop talking about all this new stuff in a.f.c. -- dowe@sierratel.com Homepage: http://www.sierratel.com/dowe Project : http://freshmeat.net/projects/vsh ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 09:17:22 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 23 Message-ID: <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1192.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997516578 63359 194.134.203.173 (11 Aug 2001 07:56:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 07:56:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87263 On 10 Aug 2001 23:44:41 -0400 "Keith F. Lynch" wrote: KL> Morten Reistad wrote: KL> > And you programmed in Fortran66. (No strings; arithmetic ifs) KL> KL> And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. KL> It was FORTRAN 2. Oh so that's what Fortran66 is - and why I never heard of it while using FORTRAN. KL> Later you used FORTRAN 4, which had logical IF statements, not KL> just arithmetic ones: Oh god, the essay I had to write on the differences is flooding back to mind, along with the 'Compare and Contrast Cards and Paper Tape" one. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 09:25:31 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 22 Message-ID: <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1192.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997516578 63359 194.134.203.173 (11 Aug 2001 07:56:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 07:56:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!gatel-ffm!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87242 On 10 Aug 2001 20:13:49 -0400 "Keith F. Lynch" wrote: KL> High speed printers have problems of their own. Like the time one of KL> the sites we supported called our user support desk to complain that KL> blank fan-fold paper was rapidly spewing out non-stop in a parabolic KL> arc. The user support drone looked in his manual, under "printer Seen that! When I saw it it was the result of a FORTRAN program trying to print a table of numbers, the first column of numbers was left justified and I'll bet most people here know what the first digit was and why it had this effect. It was a 1 which was the FORTRAN carriage control for form feed, one of the less inspired decisions of the early days :) -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 09:28:47 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 19 Message-ID: <20010811092847.1867416c.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <997352863.11503.0.nnrp-08.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <00Cc7.19200$N97.14646@news.iol.ie> <20010810205115.08d3bb0f.steveo@eircom.net> <2iZc7.3237$ww1.312864@news02.tsnz.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1192.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997516579 63359 194.134.203.173 (11 Aug 2001 07:56:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 07:56:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87225 On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:32:30 GMT don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) wrote: DS> Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: DS> > If I used a hammer to disassemble it how am I supposed to assmeble DS> >it without one ? DS> DS> You didn't. You probably used a different wrong tool, like vicegrips. Hey I *know* when I use a hammer to open something, you use it to hit the 'Birmingham Screwdriver' (AKA cold chisel) and pop the casing. Now like I said, how do I get it back together without using a hammer, I need to straighten those panel *somehow* or they won't fit. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 09:32:21 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 22 Message-ID: <20010811093221.42a2b291.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l2e30$2tr$1@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1192.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997516579 63359 194.134.203.173 (11 Aug 2001 07:56:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 07:56:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87230 On 11 Aug 2001 04:59:12 GMT dscheidt@tumbolia.com (David Scheidt) wrote: DS> Sergej Roytman wrote: DS> : In article <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, DS> : David Scheidt wrote: DS> :>It's been available commercially since 1958. It's the wrong tool for so DS> :>many things, just like Vice-Grips and duct tape. DS> DS> : Wrong tool for Vice-Grips and duct tape? Name one. DS> DS> Removing nuts and sealing ducts. They're closer wrong tools, then say, a DS> coconut. I though duct tape was for sealing mouths and securing limbs, at least that's what it is always used for in the films. I don't watch the kind of films where vice grips are used. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 09:52:47 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 997554847 mail2news:18358 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87414 In article <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> steveo@eircom.net "Steve O'Hara-Smith" writes: > On 10 Aug 2001 23:44:41 -0400 > "Keith F. Lynch" wrote: > > KL> Morten Reistad wrote: > KL> > And you programmed in Fortran66. (No strings; arithmetic ifs) > KL> > KL> And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. > KL> It was FORTRAN 2. > > Oh so that's what Fortran66 is - and why I never heard of it while > using FORTRAN. Ah, but it ISN'T. Both FORTRAN II *and* FORTRAN IV were already in use by 1966 (I was using both of them). I think Morten must have made a mistake in his posting in referring to Fortran66, which I /think/ was an early attempt at standardization (perhaps just to the extent of ratifying prevailing "standards"). A few months back someone posted the chronology of FORTRAN and both II & IV go back further than I had imagined. Note also that no one at the time used anything other than Roman numerals to refer to these "dialects". -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### Message-ID: <3B753D84.8E37D03D@earthlink.net> From: Terry Richards X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l2e30$2tr$1@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 14:11:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.10.106.139 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 997539060 63.10.106.139 (Sat, 11 Aug 2001 07:11:00 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 07:11:00 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 07:08:24 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87105 David Scheidt wrote: > > Sergej Roytman wrote: > > : Wrong tool for Vice-Grips and duct tape? Name one. > > Removing nuts and sealing ducts. They're closer wrong tools, then > say, a coconut. > Actually, sealing ducts is one of the few things that duct tape isn't much good for. -- Terry Richards http://home.earthlink.net/~terryr999/ ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 11 Aug 2001 09:25:33 -0600 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 15 Message-ID: <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 997543528 6613 128.123.64.113 (11 Aug 2001 15:25:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Aug 2001 15:25:28 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!dca6-feed1.news.digex.net!sfo2-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87104 jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > > I use duct tape. What's a Vice-Grip? P.S. I know how > use a wrench. The most well-known brand of locking pliers. to be used only when you've alread screwed up and rounded the nut... As opposed to a Crescent wrench, of course, which should never be used. So how come mine is always so close to the pile of tools? -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer SWNMRSEF: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:17:42 -0400 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-567.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!nerim.net!teaser.fr!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87339 In article <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net>, "Keith F. Lynch" wrote: > And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. > It was FORTRAN 2. You sure about that? I thought Fortran66 was Fortran IV. > Later you used FORTRAN 4, which had logical IF statements, not > just arithmetic ones: > > FORTRAN 2: IF (A-B) 30,30,50 > > FORTRAN 4: IF (A.GT.B) GOTO 50 Right, so if F2 was the original ANSI FORTRAN standard, where does F4 come in? The next standard was F77, as far as I know. > And comments could go anywhere, if there was a C in column 1. > In FORTRAN 2, comments had to fit in columns 73 through 80. Not that I saw. Comments -could- be put there, but the FORTRAN II that I used understood the "C" in the first column, IIRC. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:18:34 -0400 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l2e30$2tr$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010811093221.42a2b291.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-607.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87344 In article <20010811093221.42a2b291.steveo@eircom.net>, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > I though duct tape was for sealing mouths and securing limbs, at I -knew- I got that idea from some place! I've been suggesting it for noisy children for -years-. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 18 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:54:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.174.229.36 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 997556074 199.174.229.36 (Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:54:34 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:54:34 PDT X-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:51:58 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87186 Charles Richmond writes: > > High speed printers have problems of their own. Like the time one of > > the sites we supported called our user support desk to complain that > > blank fan-fold paper was rapidly spewing out non-stop in a parabolic > > arc. The user support drone looked in his manual, under "printer > > problems," and mindlessly recited the first thing he saw. "Can you > > fax it to us?" The client was not amused. > > > The only time I have seen printers spew paper this way is when some > dunce printed 500 lines, each with a top-of-form character in column > one... you see it when somebody messes up a carriage control tape and there is no hole for skip to column one. -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: David Powell Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:15:56 +0100 Reply-To: ddotpowell@netscapeonline.co.uk Message-ID: <531bntg7gitmecrrd7krmd4boevdmjeht3@4ax.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9krekc$137$16@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010808194912.395baea6.steveo@eircom.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: mc4as15-79-150-21.cw-visp.com X-Trace: 11 Aug 2001 19:17:59 GMT, mc4as15-79-150-21.cw-visp.com Lines: 29 X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@netscapeonline.co.uk Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!newsfeed.icl.net!iclnet!plato.netscapeonline.co.uk!mc4as15-79-150-21.cw-visp.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87441 On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 19:49:12 +0200, Steve O'Hara-Smith in alt.folklore.computers wrote: >On Wed, 08 Aug 01 10:42:09 GMT >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> There was really a piece of gear that could to this? Wow! I >> could have saved me from a lot of pain due to paper cuts. I >> finally figured out that a pencil worked just as well as >> my finger. > > A 12" ruler worked even better when I was doing it. We usually had a student apprentice to perform that task. If it was a big job, we would borrow another one from the guys next door and sit them down one on either side of a table, to work as a push-pull pair. The difficult bit was to get them to reproduce the function of the output transformer primary. To keep them from becoming bored, we multi tasked the job with formatting DECtapes and punching paper tape. Occasionally we would give them a fan-fold binary paper tape to burst, just to see what happened. The best tool for the job was an 18SWG steel 1/2U high 19" rack blanking plate, but only in experienced hands, and never for push-pull operation. Regards, David P. ###### From: David Powell Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:16:14 +0100 Reply-To: ddotpowell@netscapeonline.co.uk Message-ID: References: <20010805015115.21445.00001239@mb-mk.aol.com> <9konqk$q9r$1@top.mitre.org> <3B700F0E.7CE50241@yahoo.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: mc4as15-79-150-21.cw-visp.com X-Trace: 11 Aug 2001 19:18:17 GMT, mc4as15-79-150-21.cw-visp.com Lines: 32 X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@netscapeonline.co.uk Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.icl.net!iclnet!plato.netscapeonline.co.uk!mc4as15-79-150-21.cw-visp.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87446 On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:59:43 GMT, CBFalconer in alt.folklore.computers wrote: >Joe Morris wrote: >> >> bbreynolds@aol.comskipthis (Bruce B. Reynolds) writes: >> >> >>You remember the public tube tester at the hardware store. >> >> >> >> >You remember building a Heathkit tube tester. >> >> ...you remember waxing nostalgic at reading the obituary for Heathkits >> that was published by the IEEE when the kits-making part of the company >> was finally closed. >> >> ...or you recall when Heath was in its original business model -- selling >> WWII surplus. > >You remember the Williamson amplifier, and winding the output >transformer. I could only build them in the winter - my then less-than-state-of-the-art cordless soldering iron required a coal fire for recharging. You remember when a 25Watt rated amplifier could produce 25Watts of sinewave output. And THD meant total, not third, harmonic distortion. Regards, David P. ###### From: David Powell Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:16:23 +0100 Reply-To: ddotpowell@netscapeonline.co.uk Message-ID: <041bnts28lq56a0a7po2tudh11c0u85jsm@4ax.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: mc4as15-79-150-21.cw-visp.com X-Trace: 11 Aug 2001 19:18:25 GMT, mc4as15-79-150-21.cw-visp.com Lines: 16 X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@netscapeonline.co.uk Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!iclnet!plato.netscapeonline.co.uk!mc4as15-79-150-21.cw-visp.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87326 On Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:29:48 -0700, Charles Richmond in alt.folklore.computers wrote: >Sol Taibi wrote: >> >> YKYGOW you know what the "carriage" as >> in "carriage return" looked like. >> >And you knew what "pad characters" were for at the end of line >of text...to give the carriage on the physical terminal time >to do the carriage return... And you knew that the real reason for XON/OFF on a terminal line was to allow you to answer the phone when the ASR33 was punching a binary. David P. ###### From: David Powell Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:17:32 +0100 Reply-To: ddotpowell@netscapeonline.co.uk Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6a0538.304846748@news.shuswap.net> <3B6B500C.493EDA35@ev1.net> <9kmfpe$qnl$1@news.panix.com> <3B6F2459.A5D@indyx.net> <685.620T1552T9525057@nowhere.in.particular> <3B72F9B5.681D4F1@yahoo.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: mc4as15-79-150-21.cw-visp.com X-Trace: 11 Aug 2001 19:19:34 GMT, mc4as15-79-150-21.cw-visp.com Lines: 18 X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@netscapeonline.co.uk Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!f.de.uu.net!news.algonet.se!algonet!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed.icl.net!iclnet!plato.netscapeonline.co.uk!mc4as15-79-150-21.cw-visp.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87365 On Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:05:30 GMT, CBFalconer in alt.folklore.computers wrote: >Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >> ... you ever looked at a 1EP1 and wished you could build a >> postage-stamp-sized display with it because that would be >> normal for a 1-inch CRT. > >You remember those 1" CRTs, that came in a 6L6 metal case. IIRC, 1CP1, but that had a loctal base. Also available at 1.2" if you needed Hi-res... Regards, David P. ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 20:26:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.174.224.53 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 997561601 199.174.224.53 (Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:26:41 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:26:41 PDT X-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:23:33 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!btnet-peer!btnet!feeder.qis.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87198 Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes: > you see it when somebody messes up a carriage control tape and there > is no hole for skip to column one. oops ... that is channel 1 ... not column one (brain check) in the carriage control tape. -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### Message-ID: <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:40:30 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997555009 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (11 Aug 2001 13:36:49 -0500) Lines: 19 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87356 "Keith F. Lynch" wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [sip...] > > High speed printers have problems of their own. Like the time one of > the sites we supported called our user support desk to complain that > blank fan-fold paper was rapidly spewing out non-stop in a parabolic > arc. The user support drone looked in his manual, under "printer > problems," and mindlessly recited the first thing he saw. "Can you > fax it to us?" The client was not amused. > The only time I have seen printers spew paper this way is when some dunce printed 500 lines, each with a top-of-form character in column one... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3B759917.7FBD0D91@ev1.net> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:44:08 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997555227 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (11 Aug 2001 13:40:27 -0500) Lines: 27 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!209.30.0.50!nntp.flash.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87378 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article , > ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: > >In article <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, > >David Scheidt wrote: > >>It's been available commercially since 1958. It's the wrong tool for so > >>many things, just like Vice-Grips and duct tape. > > > >Wrong tool for Vice-Grips and duct tape? Name one. > > I use duct tape. What's a Vice-Grip? P.S. I know how > use a wrench. > > > > >(Give me a Vice-Grips long enough, and a place to stand...) > > > Where would I have to stand to get a carpenter, a plumber > and/or an electrician to do repair work? > Calcutta, India. And if you are lucky, the carpenter, plumber, and electrician will *not* be unionized... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> Organization: Me, Myself and I X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) From: mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) Originator: mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) Message-ID: <11b4l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no> Lines: 87 Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 03:15:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.71.26.5 X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@Norway.EU.net X-Trace: nreader1.kpnqwest.net 997586158 193.71.26.5 (Sun, 12 Aug 2001 05:15:58 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 05:15:58 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!npeer.kpnqwest.net!nreader1.kpnqwest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87271 In article <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk>, Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: >In article <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> > steveo@eircom.net "Steve O'Hara-Smith" writes: > >> On 10 Aug 2001 23:44:41 -0400 >> "Keith F. Lynch" wrote: >> >> KL> Morten Reistad wrote: >> KL> > And you programmed in Fortran66. (No strings; arithmetic ifs) >> KL> >> KL> And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. >> KL> It was FORTRAN 2. >> >> Oh so that's what Fortran66 is - and why I never heard of it while >> using FORTRAN. > >Ah, but it ISN'T. Both FORTRAN II *and* FORTRAN IV were already in use >by 1966 (I was using both of them). I think Morten must have made a >mistake in his posting in referring to Fortran66, which I /think/ was an >early attempt at standardization (perhaps just to the extent of ratifying >prevailing "standards"). > >A few months back someone posted the chronology of FORTRAN and both II & >IV go back further than I had imagined. > >Note also that no one at the time used anything other than Roman numerals >to refer to these "dialects". This is correct. The name 'Fortran-66' only gathered momentum after Fortran-77 was out, as a name to the previous 'standard' of Fortran. Before the 77 standard you always coded for a specific version of the language implemented by the compiler you used. At the time there was a significant divergence in features between fortran dialects. Fortran-66 was rather useless in itself, as way too much was left up to the implementor. Moving Fortran programs between machine took considerable effort. The 'standard' of Fortran was a rather minimalistic affair; and Fortran standardization was more or less ad-hoc. When the 77 standard was out there was a need to re-address all of this, and make migration paths. Since the last formalization of a fortran standard was done in 1966 it got the vernacular name of Fortran-66. In this language you send a string to stdout by sonething like WRITE(1,33) 33 FORMAT(12HHELLO, WORLD) (If unit 1 is mapped to Stdout. This would be 6 on EXEC-8) You have conditional jumps like I = 23 + A *(100 -B) IF(I) 33,33,35 33 CONTINUE C This code is executed if I <= 0 35 CONTINUE and a number of other stuff. Even details like stdin and stdout was different. On DEC mainframes you assigned logical names to the numerical units; on IBM iron you either fixed them with DD cards; or used defaults. On Univac there were hardwired units for in/out/punch/tape. E.g. literals were dependent on word sizes; and could take significant redesign from one machine to the next. A port from a DEC20 running Tops20 to a Univac running EXEC-8 took a lot of effory because of implicit detail differences like this. Both were 36-bits machines, and both were somewhat late in the Fortran standardization curve; so they implemented a close set of language features. However, having 5 or 6 characters per word can make a port interesting in early Fortrans. > >-- >Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk > "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of > distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- > easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs > ###### From: "Roger Johnstone" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:51:32 +1200 Organization: ihug ( New Zealand ) Lines: 38 Message-ID: <9l55h9$frf$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> References: <20010805015115.21445.00001239@mb-mk.aol.com> <9konqk$q9r$1@top.mitre.org> <3B700F0E.7CE50241@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p6-max3.inv.ihug.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: lust.ihug.co.nz 997595498 16239 203.173.223.38 (12 Aug 2001 05:51:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@ihug.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 05:51:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!lust.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87110 In article , David Powell wrote: > On Tue, 07 Aug 2001 15:59:43 GMT, CBFalconer > in alt.folklore.computers wrote: > >>Joe Morris wrote: >> >>You remember the Williamson amplifier, and winding the output >>transformer. > > I could only build them in the winter - my then > less-than-state-of-the-art cordless soldering iron required a coal > fire for recharging. > > You remember when a 25Watt rated amplifier could produce 25Watts of > sinewave output. And THD meant total, not third, harmonic distortion. > > Regards, > > David P. You mean the pair of 120W speakers I bought a few years ago for a PC might not have _really_ been 120W? But the box said so! Although, now that I think about it, when I peeled off the sticker on the box that said '120W', it did have 3.6W printed underneath. -- Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand Apple II - Future Cop:LAPD - iMac Voodoo2 - Warcraft II http://homepage.mac.com/rojaws ______________________________________________________________________ From Blake's 7 Villa: I'm entitled to my opinion. Avon: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating. ###### From: nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 12 Aug 2001 06:01:49 GMT Organization: Around here? Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-80-215.btinternet.com User-Agent: Xnews/4.04.17tea Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.43.194.69!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!grolier!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87276 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net>: > In article , > ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: >> In article <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, >> David Scheidt wrote: >>> It's been available commercially since 1958. It's the wrong tool for >>> so many things, just like Vice-Grips and duct tape. >> >> Wrong tool for Vice-Grips and duct tape? Name one. > > I use duct tape. What's a Vice-Grip? P.S. I know how > use a wrench. Enlighten this leftponder please: Vice-grip and wrench I can cope with - but duct tape...is it the fabric based 2" silver or black tape with a glue so strong it sticks to just about anything (to itself, permananently!) which the film and TV industry calls 'gaffer tape'? (not to be confused with camera tape) -- I have a quantum car. Every time I look at the speedometer I get lost... barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> From: Mike Spencer X-Organization: Bridgewater Institute for Advanced Study - Blacksmith Shop Message-ID: Lines: 23 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 06:28:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 142.177.208.114 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mpoweredpc.net X-Trace: sapphire.mtt.net 997597724 142.177.208.114 (Sun, 12 Aug 2001 03:28:44 ADT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 03:28:44 ADT Organization: MPowered-Subscriber Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!torn!news-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca!sapphire.mtt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87319 nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) quoth: > [snip] > ...but duct tape...is it the fabric based 2" silver or black tape > with a glue so strong it sticks to just about anything (to itself, > permananently!) which the film and TV industry calls 'gaffer tape'? It was *once* such. In my area, that lovely stuff has entered the realm of folklore. Here, duct tape is now a very thin layer of (vinyl?) weather-degradeable plastic over stickum-impregnated cheese cloth. The stickum (that's atechnical term) is still pretty good but the substrate is the pits. Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. The last roll of *real* duct tape I saw, I picked up in New Hampshire in the early 80s. Where do I get *real* duct tape now? Gak! End of the Universe Predicted. Film...etc. -- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada mspenbellscer@tallswhistleships.ca (Remove bells and whistles) ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 08:57:13 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 15 Message-ID: <20010812085713.3ab13182.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1403.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997636540 28211 194.134.170.128 (12 Aug 2001 17:15:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:15:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87231 On 12 Aug 2001 06:01:49 GMT nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) wrote: NB> duct tape...is it the fabric based 2" silver or black tape with a glue so NB> strong it sticks to just about anything (to itself, permananently!) which NB> the film and TV industry calls 'gaffer tape'? (not to be confused with NB> camera tape) Yes (gaffer tape is also the name used by stage crews and in recording studios BTW). -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: D.J. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 04:29:22 -0500 Organization: TychoTown Tycho Crater Ice Cream Parlour Lines: 17 Message-ID: <30jcntg0pqpo6pr4crj893j0vqcua2dbbi@4ax.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> Reply-To: djim55@cheesydatasync.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-079.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87403 nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) wrote: []Enlighten this leftponder please: Vice-grip and wrench I can cope with - but []duct tape...is it the fabric based 2" silver or black tape with a glue so []strong it sticks to just about anything (to itself, permananently!) which []the film and TV industry calls 'gaffer tape'? (not to be confused with []camera tape) gaffer tape and duct tape are 2 different things. According to some theatrical stage techs I know. JimP. -- djim55 at tyhe datasync dot com. Disclaimer: Standard. Updated: August 5, 2001 http://www.crosswinds.net/~drivein/ Drive-In Movie Theatres Registered Linux user#185746 ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:39:05 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <997612745snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> <11b4l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 997619964 mail2news:24816 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 47 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87408 In article <11b4l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no> mrr@reistad.priv.no "Morten Reistad" writes: > In article <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk>, > Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > >Ah, but it ISN'T. Both FORTRAN II *and* FORTRAN IV were already in use > >by 1966 (I was using both of them). I think Morten must have made a > >mistake in his posting in referring to Fortran66, which I /think/ was an > >early attempt at standardization (perhaps just to the extent of ratifying > >prevailing "standards"). [snip "retrospective naming" explanation] > In this language you send a string to stdout by sonething like > > WRITE(1,33) > 33 FORMAT(12HHELLO, WORLD) > > (If unit 1 is mapped to Stdout. This would be 6 on EXEC-8) IIRC, "stdout", a line printer, was LUN=5 under $IBSYS, and the card punch was LUN=6. > You have conditional jumps like > > I = 23 + A *(100 -B) > IF(I) 33,33,35 > 33 CONTINUE > C This code is executed if I <= 0 > 35 CONTINUE Yes, but that "arithmetic IF" was FORTRAN II; as I said, I was already using FORTRAN IV, which had logical operators evaluating to .TRUE. or .FALSE., *in* 1966. (It *had* to be then, because that was the only time in my life that I regularly had access to a mainframe, a 7090, with a FORTRAN compiler; IIRC, and it IS long ago, one needed something on the $IBSYS/$IBJOB control cards to select the FORTRAN IV compiler in preference to that for FORTRAN II.) Ergo, Fortran66 is *not* the old FORTRAN II with arithmetic IFs, etc. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> From: Bernd Felsche User-Agent: nn/6.6.beta2 Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:12:43 +0800 Message-ID: Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Host: innovative.iinet.net.au X-Trace: news.iinet.net.au 997614950 13106 203.59.144.24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!intgwlon.nntp.telstra.net!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.per.connect.com.au!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!news.iinet.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87309 nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) writes: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net>: >> In article , >> ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: >>> In article <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, >>> David Scheidt wrote: >>>> It's been available commercially since 1958. It's the wrong tool for >>>> so many things, just like Vice-Grips and duct tape. >>> >>> Wrong tool for Vice-Grips and duct tape? Name one. >> >> I use duct tape. What's a Vice-Grip? P.S. I know how >> use a wrench. >Enlighten this leftponder please: Vice-grip and wrench I can cope with - but >duct tape...is it the fabric based 2" silver or black tape with a glue so >strong it sticks to just about anything (to itself, permananently!) which >the film and TV industry calls 'gaffer tape'? (not to be confused with >camera tape) Not quite... Duct tape is a thin (usually metalised) adhesive tape used for connecting/sealing airconditioning/ventilation ducts. Hence the name. It's also useful for fixing gutters and for connecting binary rotating stars. :-) The fabric-based tape is sometimes referred to as "cloth tape". Glue strength is about the same for duct and gaffer tape. There's a "Gaffa" brand name applied to both types, to confuddle the issue. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! | X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature| / \ and postings | to help me spread! | ###### From: mwilson@the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> Lines: 18 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.37Beta [95/NT] Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:27:29 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.206.39.93 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 997626916 205.206.39.93 (Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:35:16 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:35:16 EDT Organization: UUNET Canada News Reader Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87177 In article , Mike Spencer wrote: >Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. The last roll of *real* duct tape I >saw, I picked up in New Hampshire in the early 80s. Where do I get >*real* duct tape now? Since you ask (and you *really *did** ask --- I am an inappropriate poster with principles): http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=&page=32180&category=1%2C43456%2C43466&ccurrency=1 also http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=&page=32181&category=1%2C43456%2C43466&ccurrency=1 for "gaffer's tape" Regards. Mel. ###### From: "Keith F. Lynch" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 12 Aug 2001 14:16:44 -0400 Organization: United Individualist Lines: 17 Message-ID: <9l6h6c$j7a$1@saltmine.radix.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <669.623T493T9023934@nowhere.in.particular> NNTP-Posting-Host: saltmine.radix.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!saltmine.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87193 kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch) wrote: > You never could find out whatever happened to FORTRAN 3. It would > be a mystery for the rest of your life. Charlie Gibbs wrote: > True, but just to muddy the waters Univac's 1100 compiler was called > FORTRAN V. I was hoping someone would rise to the bait and tell me what really happened to FORTRAN 3. I guess it really is universally a mystery. -- Keith F. Lynch - kfl@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/ I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but unsolicited bulk e-mail sent to thousands of randomly collected addresses is not acceptable, and I do complain to the spammer's ISP. ###### From: "Keith F. Lynch" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 12 Aug 2001 14:22:13 -0400 Organization: United Individualist Lines: 22 Message-ID: <9l6hgl$jh0$1@saltmine.radix.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: saltmine.radix.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!saltmine.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87202 "Keith F. Lynch" wrote: > FORMAT (2I3X11HHELLO WORLD3X5I) wrote: > I hated counting those Holleriths. I'm glad I never had to do any > card changing for you. I liked having comma delimiters. ;-) There may have been commas in there. I don't recall. It's been a long time. The last FORTRAN I ever used was Microsoft's F80 for CP/M, about twenty years ago. The compiler was full of bugs. It put me off FORTRAN for life. I'd like to be able to say that was also the last Microsoft software I ever used. It isn't, but it does come pretty close. I've lived an almost perfectly Microsoft-free life for more than a decade. -- Keith F. Lynch - kfl@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/ I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but unsolicited bulk e-mail sent to thousands of randomly collected addresses is not acceptable, and I do complain to the spammer's ISP. ###### Message-ID: <3B76C9F3.31118B46@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <669.623T493T9023934@nowhere.in.particular> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 36 Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:34:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.124.33 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 997641255 168.191.124.33 (Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:34:15 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:34:15 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:31:40 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87098 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. > >It was FORTRAN 2. There were a number of "variations" on FORTRAN II as well. I remember one for the PDP-8. The Bendix G-20 from which I get my sig line also had a FORTRAN 2 or II or...... > > > >Later you used FORTRAN 4, which had logical IF statements, not > >just arithmetic ones: > > We always used Roman numerals: FORTRAN II and FORTRAN IV. > (It's nice to see FORTRAN and COBOL properly capitalized again.) > > >You never could find out whatever happened to FORTRAN 3. It would be > >a mystery for the rest of your life. > > True, but just to muddy the waters Univac's 1100 compiler > was called FORTRAN V. And it was a nice one too, one of the best I ever used to my mind. But there was also DG's FORTRAN 5, again a nice efficient compiler (I convinced my employer at that time to start using it instead of assembly code for real time functions and so spent a lot of time looking at the compiled code before pressing that case.) Chris AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ ###### From: "Keith F. Lynch" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 12 Aug 2001 14:41:09 -0400 Organization: United Individualist Lines: 25 Message-ID: <9l6ik5$kj3$1@saltmine.radix.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> <11b4l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no> NNTP-Posting-Host: saltmine.radix.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.radix.net!news1.radix.net!saltmine.radix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87195 Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > Ah, but it ISN'T. Both FORTRAN II *and* FORTRAN IV were already in > use by 1966 (I was using both of them). You're right. I just looked it up. FORTRAN II dates from 1958, just a year after the original FORTRAN. FORTRAN IV dates from 1962. Morten Reistad wrote: > This is correct. The name 'Fortran-66' only gathered momentum after > Fortran-77 was out, as a name to the previous 'standard' of Fortran. Right. I knew I had never heard any mention of Fortran-66 in the 60s or 70s. > Moving Fortran programs between machine took considerable effort. That's for sure. For a bad time, try porting code which relies heavily on opening and closing files whose names are read from another file, onto an OS (e.g. NOS/BE) in which everything had to be opened before the program started and closed after it ended. Shudder. -- Keith F. Lynch - kfl@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/ I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but unsolicited bulk e-mail sent to thousands of randomly collected addresses is not acceptable, and I do complain to the spammer's ISP. ###### From: "Don Chiasson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Lines: 27 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:56:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.42.241.65 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news3.rdc1.on.home.com 997657010 24.42.241.65 (Sun, 12 Aug 2001 15:56:50 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 15:56:50 PDT Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news3.rdc1.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87320 "Bernd Felsche" wrote in message news:bbo5l9.d3h.ln@innovative.iinet.net.au... > > Not quite... > > Duct tape is a thin (usually metalised) adhesive > tape used for connecting/sealing airconditioning/ventilation > ducts. Hence the name. It's also useful for fixing gutters > and for connecting binary rotating stars. :-) > > The fabric-based tape is sometimes referred to as "cloth tape". > Glue strength is about the same for duct and gaffer tape. > > There's a "Gaffa" brand name applied to both types, to confuddle the > issue. The stuff I use on my heating ducts is thin and metallized. The stuff I call duct tape is the cloth backed tape. I've also heard it called bookbinding tape and gun tape. It's a guy thing: if it moves and it;s not supposed to, use duct tape. If it's supposed to move and doesn't, use WD-40. Don e-mail: it's not not, it's hot. ###### From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio?= Vasconcelos Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:17:55 +0100 Organization: CONVEX Portugal Lines: 34 Message-ID: <3B770EA3.9006AF42@convex.pt> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3B6D8612.8E8909DE@earthlink.net> <3b76fc0d.751212191@enews.newsguy.com> <3B7315CF.91E7F81D@transdata.co.nz> <3B735412.7BE59589@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: eco.convex.pt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: venus.telepac.pt 997658680 8687 194.65.19.40 (12 Aug 2001 23:24:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@mail.telepac.pt NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Aug 2001 23:24:40 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!cass.news.pipex.net!pipex!brown.telepac.pt!news.telepac.pt!venus.telepac.pt!news.telepac.pt!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87044 CBFalconer wrote: > > > > > > sub main() > > > > > > 10 debug.print "Hello"; > > > 20 goto 10 > > > > > > end sub > > > > > > (By the way I don't suggest it. It locks up VB and you have to terminate > > > it.) > > > > I used to go into WH Smith in the UK and type the following on > > commodore 64s: > > > > 10 for N = 1 to 65536 > > 20 poke N,0 > > 30 end for Come on... you must be a real rookie... 8-) No one, before that Pascal and C things whould use 3 lines for something that could fit in only one... 10 FOR f=1 TO 65535: POKE f,0: NEXT f "end for" ???? are you out of your mind ???????? -- António Vasconcelos - Senior Network Management Support CONVEX - Informática e Sistemas de Comunicações Portugal, Lda T: +351-21-422-9200 F: +351-21-421-3787 W: http://www.convex.pt ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:32:46 GMT Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net Message-ID: <3b76bdd4.78238602@news.shuswap.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <669.623T493T9023934@nowhere.in.particular> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm3-10.shuswap.net X-Trace: 12 Aug 2001 20:49:07 -0700, salmonarm3-10.shuswap.net Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!feed.textport.net!news.bnb-lp.com!nubby2.!salmonarm3-10.shuswap.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87201 "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >In article <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> kfl@KeithLynch.net >(Keith F. Lynch) writes: > >>And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. >>It was FORTRAN 2. >> >>Later you used FORTRAN 4, which had logical IF statements, not >>just arithmetic ones: > >We always used Roman numerals: FORTRAN II and FORTRAN IV. >(It's nice to see FORTRAN and COBOL properly capitalized again.) Mmm, yes. >>You never could find out whatever happened to FORTRAN 3. It would be >>a mystery for the rest of your life. > >True, but just to muddy the waters Univac's 1100 compiler >was called FORTRAN V. There was also Waterloo FORTRAN IV (a student compiler): WATFIV (pronounced "watt five"). Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### Message-ID: <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:01:36 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997671745 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (12 Aug 2001 22:02:25 -0500) Lines: 44 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.syr.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!portc03.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87375 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net>, > "Keith F. Lynch" wrote: > >Morten Reistad wrote: > >> And you programmed in Fortran66. (No strings; arithmetic ifs) > > > >And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. > >It was FORTRAN 2. > > > >Later you used FORTRAN 4, which had logical IF statements, not > >just arithmetic ones: > > > >FORTRAN 2: IF (A-B) 30,30,50 > > I don't recall this construct being available. The FORTRAN-II > I learned was on an IBM 1620. > My first real programming was in FORTRAN II on an IBM 1620...I can vouch for this statement syntax. It was called an "arithmetic if statement". The program would branch to one of the three statements based on whether the expression in parenthesis was negative, zero, or positive. > > > > >FORTRAN 4: IF (A.GT.B) GOTO 50 > > > >It also had strings, but they were called literals, and didn't use > >quote marks, but were preceded by a number and an H. > > > >FORTRAN 4: FORMAT (2I3X11HHELLO WORLD3X5I) > > I hated counting those Holleriths. I'm glad I never had > to do any card changing for you. I liked having comma > delimiters. ;-) > Yeah, the Hollerith fields were just mistakes waiting to happen... Newbies also often had a problem with punching a column or two past column 72... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 12 Aug 2001 23:13:43 -0600 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 25 Message-ID: <1bae148rug.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 997679618 749 128.123.64.113 (13 Aug 2001 05:13:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 05:13:38 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87097 Mike Spencer writes: > nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) quoth: > > [snip] > > ...but duct tape...is it the fabric based 2" silver or black tape > > with a glue so strong it sticks to just about anything (to itself, > > permananently!) which the film and TV industry calls 'gaffer tape'? I was surprised to be told a while back that gaffer's tape isn't duct tape. Gaffer's tape has a less-sticky glue. > It was *once* such. In my area, that lovely stuff has entered the > realm of folklore. Here, duct tape is now a very thin layer of > (vinyl?) weather-degradeable plastic over stickum-impregnated cheese > cloth. The stickum (that's atechnical term) is still pretty good but > the substrate is the pits. We went through some very bad times around here for a while; I saw quite a bit of it that met your description all too well. In the last year or so, it seems to have been getting better again. -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer SWNMRSEF: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 12 Aug 2001 23:17:33 -0600 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 16 Message-ID: <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 997679849 749 128.123.64.113 (13 Aug 2001 05:17:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 05:17:29 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87094 jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >As opposed to a Crescent wrench, of course, which should never be > >used. So how come mine is always so close to the pile of tools? > > [suspicious emoticon feeling the wind of a whoosh over its head] > Why shouldn't a Crescent wrench ever be used? Two reasons -- there's a moving part in there, so the jaws spread a bit and tend to round nuts. Second reason is that by the time you've tightened a nut with one, you're virtually certain to have wound up with it a bit looser than it should be, again tending to round nuts. -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer SWNMRSEF: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:46:17 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 13 Message-ID: <20010813074617.0bdc0234.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <669.623T493T9023934@nowhere.in.particular> <3b76bdd4.78238602@news.shuswap.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1292.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997722011 80349 194.134.170.17 (13 Aug 2001 17:00:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 17:00:11 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cleanfeed.casema.net!leda.casema.net!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87240 On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:32:46 GMT genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) wrote: GW> There was also Waterloo FORTRAN IV (a student compiler): WATFIV GW> (pronounced "watt five"). I always thought that should have been WATFOR. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: dscheidt@tumbolia.com (David Scheidt) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 2001 06:55:45 GMT Lines: 33 Sender: David Scheidt Message-ID: <9l7tlh$qmh$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVY3xC2DdD2T5Q2vq3QdAsc5/Pwd6fgkKz3gjSV/PWx8xs22yTYYFXoK X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 06:55:45 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87170 Mike Spencer wrote: : nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) quoth: :> [snip] :> ...but duct tape...is it the fabric based 2" silver or black tape :> with a glue so strong it sticks to just about anything (to itself, :> permananently!) which the film and TV industry calls 'gaffer tape'? : It was *once* such. In my area, that lovely stuff has entered the : realm of folklore. Here, duct tape is now a very thin layer of : (vinyl?) weather-degradeable plastic over stickum-impregnated cheese : cloth. The stickum (that's atechnical term) is still pretty good but : the substrate is the pits. Gaffer's tape is something different than duct tape. Okay, they're both flexible cloth tapes, with sticky sticky stuff on them. Gaffer's tape comes off, though, and it doesn't leave a sticky residue on most surfaces. Duct tape may or may not come off, but it's going to leave guck on whatever you stick it to. : Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. The last roll of *real* duct tape I : saw, I picked up in New Hampshire in the early 80s. Where do I get : *real* duct tape now? Gak! End of the Universe Predicted. : Film...etc. Look harder. Real duct tape is still available. I'm partial to Duck brand Industrial tape, and one of 3M's tapes, but I don't remember which one. Both of these companies also make crappy duct tape, too. -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ###### From: "Roger Johnstone" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:14:28 +1200 Organization: ihug ( New Zealand ) Lines: 30 Message-ID: <9l7uon$d3i$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p11-max2.inv.ihug.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: lust.ihug.co.nz 997686872 13426 203.173.222.203 (13 Aug 2001 07:14:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@ihug.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:14:32 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!lust.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87124 In article , Bernd Felsche wrote: > Duct tape is a thin (usually metalised) adhesive tape used for > connecting/sealing airconditioning/ventilation ducts. Hence the > name. It's also useful for fixing gutters and for connecting binary > rotating stars. :-) > > The fabric-based tape is sometimes referred to as "cloth tape". > Glue strength is about the same for duct and gaffer tape. > > There's a "Gaffa" brand name applied to both types, to confuddle the > issue. Not to mention a Duck brand duct tape. "A roll of that Duck tape please" "Duct tape?" "No, Duck tape" "This one here, duct tape?" -- Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand Apple II - Future Cop:LAPD - iMac Voodoo2 - Warcraft II http://homepage.mac.com/rojaws ______________________________________________________________________ "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home." Ken Olson, President of DEC, World Future Society Convention, 1977 ###### From: rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Organization: FIELDATA FORTRAN ENTHUSIASTS CLUB Reply-To: rsteiner@visi.com Message-ID: <9G5d7oHpvStb092yn@visi.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l6hgl$jh0$1@saltmine.radix.net> X-Newsreader: Yarn for OS/2 v0.92 X-Stuff-Running: There are 57 Processes with 212 Threads. X-HomePage: http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner Lines: 15 User-Agent: VSoup v1.2.9.48Beta [OS/2] Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:37:17 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.25.198.250 X-Complaints-To: abuse@visi.com X-Trace: ruti.visi.com 997692432 65.25.198.250 (Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:47:12 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:47:12 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!zeus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ruti.visi.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87091 Here in alt.folklore.computers, "Keith F. Lynch" spake unto us, saying: >The last FORTRAN I ever used was Microsoft's F80 for CP/M, about >twenty years ago. The compiler was full of bugs. It put me off >FORTRAN for life. That's unfortunate -- there are some very good FORTRAN compilers out there... -- -Rich Steiner >>>---> rsteiner@visi.com >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS + PC/GEOS + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-) I object to sex on TV, I keep falling off! ###### From: rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Organization: FIELDATA FORTRAN ENTHUSIASTS CLUB Reply-To: rsteiner@visi.com Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> X-Newsreader: Yarn for OS/2 v0.92 X-Stuff-Running: There are 57 Processes with 212 Threads. X-HomePage: http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner Lines: 28 User-Agent: VSoup v1.2.9.48Beta [OS/2] Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:38:07 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.25.198.250 X-Complaints-To: abuse@visi.com X-Trace: ruti.visi.com 997692432 65.25.198.250 (Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:47:12 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:47:12 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator!feed2.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!news-in-austin.nuthinbutnews.com!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.twtelecom.net!newsfeeds.sol.net!zeus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ruti.visi.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87095 Here in alt.folklore.computers, Charles Richmond spake unto us, saying: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >>"Keith F. Lynch" wrote: >> >> >FORTRAN 2: IF (A-B) 30,30,50 >> >> I don't recall this construct being available. The FORTRAN-II >> I learned was on an IBM 1620. >> >My first real programming was in FORTRAN II on an IBM 1620...I >can vouch for this statement syntax. It was called an >"arithmetic if statement". The program would branch to one of >the three statements based on whether the expression in >parenthesis was negative, zero, or positive. Yup. Good for binary searches . I still run into programs where it appears the Arithmetic IF was the only type of IF statement the original author was familiar with. -- -Rich Steiner >>>---> rsteiner@visi.com >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS + PC/GEOS + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-) Op Code: HCF - Halt and Catch Fire ###### From: rsteiner@visi.com (Richard Steiner) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Organization: FIELDATA FORTRAN ENTHUSIASTS CLUB Reply-To: rsteiner@visi.com Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <669.623T493T9023934@nowhere.in.particular> X-Newsreader: Yarn for OS/2 v0.92 X-Stuff-Running: There are 57 Processes with 212 Threads. X-HomePage: http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner Lines: 14 User-Agent: VSoup v1.2.9.48Beta [OS/2] Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:41:11 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.25.198.250 X-Complaints-To: abuse@visi.com X-Trace: ruti.visi.com 997692433 65.25.198.250 (Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:47:13 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:47:13 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator!feed2.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!news-in-austin.nuthinbutnews.com!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!zeus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ruti.visi.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87099 Here in alt.folklore.computers, "Charlie Gibbs" spake unto us, saying: >True, but just to muddy the waters Univac's 1100 compiler was called >FORTRAN V. @FOR is still called that (FIELDATA FORTRAN V is one of the compilers we still use), even tho I suspect Unisys doesn't support it anymore. -- -Rich Steiner >>>---> rsteiner@visi.com >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS + PC/GEOS + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-) My mind's not twisted... just bent in several strategic places. ###### From: D.J. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 04:25:23 -0500 Organization: TychoTown Tycho Crater Ice Cream Parlour Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9l7tlh$qmh$1@bob.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: djim55@cheesydatasync.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-231.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87385 dscheidt@tumbolia.com (David Scheidt) wrote: []Look harder. Real duct tape is still available. I'm partial to Duck brand []Industrial tape, and one of 3M's tapes, but I don't remember which one. []Both of these companies also make crappy duct tape, too. Yup. Never buy duct tape from the 'on sale' bulk items bin. I've done that. Never again. JimP. -- djim55 at tyhe datasync dot com. Disclaimer: Standard. Updated: August 5, 2001 http://www.crosswinds.net/~drivein/ Drive-In Movie Theatres Registered Linux user#185746 ###### From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:42:55 +0100 Message-ID: <997695457.22140.0.nnrp-02.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9krf0b$137$17@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <1166.621T2130T9505511@nowhere.in.particular> <997434479.20203.0.nnrp-07.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 997695457 nnrp-02:22140 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2481.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2481.0000 Lines: 23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87379 "Richard C. Steiner" wrote in message news:slrn9n8ath.8gb.rsteiner@isis.visi.com... > In article <997434479.20203.0.nnrp-07.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk>, > Peter Ibbotson wrote: > > >I really must try and get a better newsreader. Sadly I think I'll find I'll > >have to write myself, 'cos last time I looked most of the *nix ports to > >windows were horrid (I have all the RFCs and most of MIME compatible reader > >etc.) Yet another project to add to the list. > > How long has it been since you last looked? Some Windows users like slrn, > which is what I'm using here, but many of them seem to prefer GUI readers > like Free Agent or Gravity. > Errr.... 1996/7 I would guess (long time ago now I come to think of it). -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <669.623T493T9023934@nowhere.in.particular> <3b76bdd4.78238602@news.shuswap.net> Organization: Daedalus Consulting X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Lines: 8 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:28:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.144.16 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tsnz.net X-Trace: news02.tsnz.net 997702103 203.96.144.16 (Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:28:23 NZST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:28:23 NZST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news02.tsnz.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87215 In article <3b76bdd4.78238602@news.shuswap.net>, Gene Wirchenko wrote: > There was also Waterloo FORTRAN IV (a student compiler): WATFIV >(pronounced "watt five"). Um, WATFIV simpley followed WATFOR (Waterloo FORTRAN). -- fon ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:35:46 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 34 Message-ID: <9l8l3i$5sr$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997709746 6043 128.29.251.13 (13 Aug 2001 13:35:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:35:46 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87086 Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes: >Charles Richmond writes: >> > High speed printers have problems of their own. Like the time one of >> > the sites we supported called our user support desk to complain that >> > blank fan-fold paper was rapidly spewing out non-stop in a parabolic >> > arc. The user support drone looked in his manual, under "printer >> > problems," and mindlessly recited the first thing he saw. "Can you >> > fax it to us?" The client was not amused. >> > >> The only time I have seen printers spew paper this way is when some >> dunce printed 500 lines, each with a top-of-form character in column >> one... >you see it when somebody messes up a carriage control tape and there >is no hole for skip to column one. ...or when the operator hasn't been keeping an eye on the carriage tape, allowing normal wear-and-tear to rip the sprocket holes. The result was that the tape would sit motionless while the paper was being slewed; since the punched hole in the tape never reached the brushes, the slew continued until the operator ran over to the printer and hit the "CARRIAGE STOP" button. This was a problem especially at shops that tried to cut corners by refusing to buy mylar carriage tapes, but even the mylar tapes could eventually wear out. ...which makes me recall another candidate for the YKYGOW list: You remember edge-coated punched cards. Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:44:44 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 14 Message-ID: <9l8lkc$61p$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> <11b4l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997710284 6201 128.29.251.13 (13 Aug 2001 13:44:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:44:44 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87083 mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) writes: >E.g. literals were dependent on word sizes; and could take significant >redesign from one machine to the next. A port from a DEC20 running >Tops20 to a Univac running EXEC-8 took a lot of effory because of >implicit detail differences like this. And it's even more fun if you run into a program that deliberately makes use of the machine dependencies. Even with the FORTRAN source neither I nor our local TOPS-10 expert ever figured out the logic of the "are you a wizard" code in ADVENTURE for that system. (The IBM version of that code merely looked for ^W^I^Z^Z^A^R as the key.) Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:47:17 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 4 Message-ID: <9l8lp5$62t$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997710437 6237 128.29.251.13 (13 Aug 2001 13:47:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:47:17 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87076 ...you remember the 36-bit vs 32-bit debates. And you're still waiting for DEC to deliver the long-promised Jupiter systems. Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:52:08 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 11 Message-ID: <9l8m28$63o$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> <11b4l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no> <997612745snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997710728 6264 128.29.251.13 (13 Aug 2001 13:52:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 13:52:08 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87067 bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) writes: >IIRC, "stdout", a line printer, was LUN=5 under $IBSYS, and the card >punch was LUN=6. Nope. 5 was the standard input; 6 standard print, and 7 standard punch. This carried over into the OS/360 arena, although like all other I/O the end user could provide nonstandard DD cards to redirect it wherever desired. Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 2001 14:10:46 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 21 Message-ID: <9l8n56$6h8$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <669.623T493T9023934@nowhere.in.particular> <3b76bdd4.78238602@news.shuswap.net> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997711846 6696 128.29.251.13 (13 Aug 2001 14:10:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 14:10:46 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87066 genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) writes: > There was also Waterloo FORTRAN IV (a student compiler): WATFIV >(pronounced "watt five"). ...and WATFIV could claim its name came from either: WATerloo Fortran IV or WATerloo fortran FIVe (as successor to WATFOR) and a damn good program no matter how you think its name came to be. What I missed in Waterloo'w S/360 implementation was the cute way that the 7040 IBSYS version detected the use of uninitialized variables: before execution began all variable storage was set to invalid parity, so an invalid parity trap in that area of storage was diagnosed as the use of a variable for which no value had been assigned. (Storing into a word with bad parity did not cause a trap.) Joe Morris ###### From: Alexandre Pechtchanski Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Organization: Rockefeller University Hospital (GCRC), New York Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <1bae148rug.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:22:26 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.85.24.56 X-Trace: rockyd.rockefeller.edu 997719809 129.85.24.56 (Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:23:29 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:23:29 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!rockyd.rockefeller.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87350 On 12 Aug 2001 23:13:43 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >Mike Spencer writes: [ snip ] >> It was *once* such. In my area, that lovely stuff has entered the >> realm of folklore. Here, duct tape is now a very thin layer of >> (vinyl?) weather-degradeable plastic over stickum-impregnated cheese >> cloth. The stickum (that's atechnical term) is still pretty good but >> the substrate is the pits. Ah, so _this_ is why everything seems to come apart! "Duct tape... the stuff that keeps America together" ;-) >We went through some very bad times around here for a while; I saw >quite a bit of it that met your description all too well. In the last >year or so, it seems to have been getting better again. So there is hope for us yet? -- [ When replying, remove *'s from address ] Alexandre Pechtchanski, Systems Manager, RUH, NY ###### Message-ID: <3B77F773.1C8AD2B1@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:25:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.178.232 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 997719952 12.90.178.232 (Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:25:52 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:25:52 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87043 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, > Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >> >As opposed to a Crescent wrench, of course, which should never be > >> >used. So how come mine is always so close to the pile of tools? > >> > >> [suspicious emoticon feeling the wind of a whoosh over its head] > >> Why shouldn't a Crescent wrench ever be used? > > > >Two reasons -- there's a moving part in there, so the jaws spread a > >bit and tend to round nuts. Second reason is that by the time you've > >tightened a nut with one, you're virtually certain to have wound up > >with it a bit looser than it should be, again tending to round nuts. > > That's the same problems I'm getting with screwing (or rather > unscrewing) this week. Is there a vice equivalent for a screwdriver? You can buy an impact tool with both Phillips and normal bits for about $5..10. To use it on the fouled Phillips heads, set the rotation direction and bang on the tool head with a hammer or other blunt instrument. Lo and behold, it loosens. You may need to apply discretion to the bang amplitude. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### Message-ID: <3B77F8E0.B68D8DE1@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <669.623T493T9023934@nowhere.in.particular> <3b76bdd4.78238602@news.shuswap.net> <9l8n56$6h8$1@top.mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:25:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.178.232 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 997719953 12.90.178.232 (Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:25:53 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:25:53 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87049 Joe Morris wrote: > ... snip ... > > What I missed in Waterloo'w S/360 implementation was the cute way that the > 7040 IBSYS version detected the use of uninitialized variables: before > execution began all variable storage was set to invalid parity, so an > invalid parity trap in that area of storage was diagnosed as the use > of a variable for which no value had been assigned. (Storing into a word > with bad parity did not cause a trap.) Well. I made that brilliant and "original" suggestion in another newsgroup within the past two weeks. The usual 'glad I thought of it'. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### From: Alexandre Pechtchanski Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Organization: Rockefeller University Hospital (GCRC), New York Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <669.623T493T9023934@nowhere.in.particular> <3B76C9F3.31118B46@earthlink.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:55:48 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.85.24.56 X-Trace: rockyd.rockefeller.edu 997721810 129.85.24.56 (Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:56:50 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:56:50 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!rockyd.rockefeller.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87433 On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:34:15 GMT, jchausler wrote: >Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> >And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. >> >It was FORTRAN 2. > >There were a number of "variations" on FORTRAN II as well. I >remember one for the PDP-8. I hope you remember it more fondly then I do - the one thing I remember most vividly is that it allowed to pass literals by reference and would happily modify them. One of the most harrowing bugs hunts I had when it redefined 1 to be some other number :-( -- [ When replying, remove *'s from address ] Alexandre Pechtchanski, Systems Manager, RUH, NY ###### Message-ID: <3B7808F4.86823E39@thinkage.ca> From: "Alan T. Bowler" Organization: Thinkage Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:05:56 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.102.11.4 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 997722355 192.102.11.4 (Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:05:55 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:05:55 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87060 Neil Barnes wrote: > > Enlighten this leftponder please: Vice-grip and wrench I can cope with - but > duct tape...is it the fabric based 2" silver or black tape with a glue so > strong it sticks to just about anything (to itself, permananently!) which > the film and TV industry calls 'gaffer tape'? (not to be confused with > camera tape) Duct tape and gaffer tape are NOT the same thing. 1) Gaffer tape tears crosswise more easily, so you usually don't need a tool (knife, scissors) to dispense a piece. 2) You use gaffer a lot for sticking wiring (extension cables, etc.) down temporarly, so the glue comes off surfaces more easily, and doesn't stay behind. (you really don't want to leave adhesive behind on the floor after you pack up.) Duct tape is far less likely to remove cleanly, since it really is intended to seal joints in ducting permanently. 3) Gaffer tape is usually black (not silver) to go with the theatre convention. "If it's black the audience will pretend they can't see it." ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <3B7808F4.86823E39@thinkage.ca> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 15 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 17:42:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.213.74.25 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 997724523 141.213.74.25 (Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:42:03 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:42:03 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87252 In article <3B7808F4.86823E39@thinkage.ca>, Alan T. Bowler wrote: >3) Gaffer tape is usually black (not silver) to go with the theatre > convention. "If it's black the audience will pretend they > can't see it." Well, if you're setting up a photograph, you may also be concerned about unintended illumination from non-black parts of the world. At least, that's the very strong impression I got from the Chrysler photographic folks when they were doing internal publicity photos for one of our projects. Nuther use for black tape: to stick over existing shiny places, so that they do not cause reflections. -- Sergej Roytman ###### From: QSB@QRM-QRN.net (Allodoxaphobia) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> Reply-To: If You Reply Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Date: 13 Aug 2001 17:44:58 GMT Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.105.232.12 X-Trace: reader0.news.uu.net 997724698 28385 63.105.232.12 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!zur.uu.net!ash.uu.net!spool1.news.uu.net!spool0.news.uu.net!reader0.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87347 On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:01:36 -0700, Charles Richmond scribbled: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> In article <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net>, >> "Keith F. Lynch" wrote: >> >Morten Reistad wrote: >> >> And you programmed in Fortran66. (No strings; arithmetic ifs) >> > >> >And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. >> >It was FORTRAN 2. >> > >> >Later you used FORTRAN 4, which had logical IF statements, not >> >just arithmetic ones: >> > I remember (after many years of moving on from ForTran to other languages in the IBM MainFrame world) seeing a feature article (in Byte, maybe..) about Fortran 95. "Geez!", I thought, "I've missed 91 releases!" Jonesy Been there, Done that -- since 1966 -- | Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | OS/2 | Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | linux __ | 7,703' -- 2,345m | frontier.net | DM68mn SK ###### From: nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 2001 17:59:31 GMT Organization: Around here? Lines: 36 Message-ID: <9l94i3$srp$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9l640m$cfk$6@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-7-79-84.btinternet.com User-Agent: Xnews/4.04.17tea Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!skynet.be!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!shale.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87308 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in <9l640m$cfk$6@bob.news.rcn.net>: > In article , > Mike Spencer wrote: >> >> nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) quoth: >>> [snip] >>> ...but duct tape...is it the fabric based 2" silver or black tape >>> with a glue so strong it sticks to just about anything (to itself, >>> permananently!) which the film and TV industry calls 'gaffer tape'? >> >> It was *once* such. In my area, that lovely stuff has entered the >> realm of folklore. Here, duct tape is now a very thin layer of >> (vinyl?) weather-degradeable plastic over stickum-impregnated cheese >> cloth. The stickum (that's atechnical term) is still pretty good but >> the substrate is the pits. >> >> Maybe it's just a Canadian thing. The last roll of *real* duct tape I >> saw, I picked up in New Hampshire in the early 80s. Where do I get >> *real* duct tape now? Gak! End of the Universe Predicted. >> Film...etc. >> > Hey! I was told that Canada had Real Duct Tape. I was planning > on shopping when I passed through to Michigan. > Hmm. Canford Audio sell it (gaffer tape) from their catalogue, but I don't see a catalogue listing on their web site (www.canford.co.uk). It's not cheap though. -- I have a quantum car. Every time I look at the speedometer I get lost... barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:13:48 -0700 Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9l640m$cfk$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l94i3$srp$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: il0502a-dhcp38.apple.com X-Trace: news.apple.com 997726425 22252 17.205.24.38 (13 Aug 2001 18:13:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.apple.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 18:13:45 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!forum.apple.com!news.apple.com!il0502a-dhcp38.apple.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87270 In article <9l94i3$srp$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>, nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) wrote: > >>> ...but duct tape...is it the fabric based 2" silver or black tape > >>> with a glue so strong it sticks to just about anything (to itself, > >>> permananently!) which the film and TV industry calls 'gaffer tape'? > >> No!!! Gaffer's tape uses a different adhesive which doesn't stick to cabling. Using duct tape in applications where gaffer's tape should be used is a REALLY BAD idea. Having to clean up someone else's mess after they've used duct tape at a recording session is a good way to get me really pissed off! ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:40:28 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <997728028snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <669.623T493T9023934@nowhere.in.particular> <3B76C9F3.31118B46@earthlink.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 997734788 mail2news:7678 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 32 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87412 In article alex*@*rockvax.rockefeller.edu "Alexandre Pechtchanski" writes: > On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:34:15 GMT, jchausler wrote: > > >Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > > >> >And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. > >> >It was FORTRAN 2. > > > >There were a number of "variations" on FORTRAN II as well. I > >remember one for the PDP-8. > > I hope you remember it more fondly then I do - the one thing I remember most > vividly is that it allowed to pass literals by reference and would happily > modify them. One of the most harrowing bugs hunts I had when it redefined 1 to > be some other number :-( Umm, I thought ALL FORTRANs (certainly pre-1972 or thereabouts) always passed everything by reference? That was just one of the things I found so foul about the language when I first came to it, having been used to Algol-60 with either call by value or call by name. Since the language had nothing comparable to C's const, then of course a function could modify an argument, even if it was a literal. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 2001 19:57:28 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <9l9bf8$mpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <1bae148rug.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <3B784AE6.BD083D9A@ev1.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 997732648 23351 134.117.136.30 (13 Aug 2001 19:57:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 19:57:28 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87218 Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) writes: > Hey, if your boss is *really* cheap, when you have to go on travel, > you may have to fly in the "duct tape" section. That means that > you are just duct-taped to the wing... (;-)) Believe it or not, I did spot some tape on the leading edge of of a 727(?) wing on a flight from Toronto to Ottawa. I figured that Tim 'The Tool Man' Taylor had found new employment. ###### From: ic0cdfw00@ic24.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:59:39 +0100 Lines: 25 Message-ID: <02cgntkegnoff8t36lf8d9foevqmq8pqaq@4ax.com> References: <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> <9l8l3i$5sr$1@top.mitre.org> <1348.625T2565T6275650@nowhere.in.particular> Reply-To: tony.lenton@physics.org NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-32-235.dialup.lineone.co.uk (213.123.32.235) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 997732940 8717972 213.123.32.235 (16 [88156]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!130.133.1.3!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!host213-123-32-235.dialup.lineone.co.UK!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87438 On 13 Aug 01 10:27:51 -0800, "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >In article <9l8l3i$5sr$1@top.mitre.org> jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) >writes: > >> >>...or when the operator hasn't been keeping an eye on the carriage >>tape, allowing normal wear-and-tear to rip the sprocket holes. The >>result was that the tape would sit motionless while the paper was >>being slewed; since the punched hole in the tape never reached the >>brushes, the slew continued until the operator ran over to the printer >>and hit the "CARRIAGE STOP" button. > >I always found it amusing that printers from the mighty IBM had this >problem, which was nothing more than a design oversight. Not all of them. The IBM3211 detected the runaway condition, though of course it used a virtual carriage tape (FCB). However many other hardware design problems caused carriage runaway so I guess the subtle change of cause would probably not be noticed. -- aml ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:02:31 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 20 Message-ID: <20010813220231.3ac78b95.steveo@eircom.net> References: <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9l7uon$d3i$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <440.625T1451T5865000@nowhere.in.particular> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1360.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997750872 83381 194.134.170.85 (14 Aug 2001 01:01:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 01:01:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!195.64.68.27!newsgate.cistron.nl!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87241 On 13 Aug 01 09:46:29 -0800 "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: CG> "Give me a four-volt, two-watt bulb." CG> "For what?" CG> "No, two." CG> "Two what?" CG> "That's right." "Fork handles" "Four Candles ?" The Two Ronnies. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: rsteiner@isis.visi.com (Richard C. Steiner) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <1bae148rug.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> Organization: Vector Internet Services, Inc. Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Lines: 16 Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:09:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.98.98.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@visi.com X-Trace: ruti.visi.com 997733348 209.98.98.8 (Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:09:08 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:09:08 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!ruti.visi.com!rsteiner Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87338 In article , Alexandre Pechtchanski wrote: >Ah, so _this_ is why everything seems to come apart! "Duct tape... the >stuff that keeps America together" ;-) "Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, and a dark side, and it binds the universe together..." Or something like that. I don't remember where I saw that quote. :-( -- -Rich Steiner >>>---> rsteiner@visi.com >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN Written online using slrn 0.9.5.4! The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then. ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:37:48 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <997735068snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9l7uon$d3i$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <440.625T1451T5865000@nowhere.in.particular> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 997770177 mail2news:12014 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87415 In article <440.625T1451T5865000@nowhere.in.particular> cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular "Charlie Gibbs" writes: > "Give me a four-volt, two-watt bulb." > "For what?" > "No, two." > "Two what?" > "That's right." > > Thank you, Abbott and Costello. Or as the Two Ronnies had it Four Candles. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: eben@pc.tampabay.rr.com (Hactar) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Lines: 27 Message-ID: <9l9gk0$njh$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> x-no-archive: yes X-No-ahbou: yes X-GetARealNewsreader: , wrote: > Is there a vice equivalent for a screwdriver? Maybe (for slotted screws) one of those screwdrivers with a diagonal cut in the bit like so: ___ | | | | | | \ | \\| |\ | | | | | | --- Maybe I have the cut going the wrong direction. Anyhow, the bit gets thicker (as the cut slips, restrained by a thingy on the shaft) under clockwise torque. -- -eben eben@gate.net http://home.tampabay.rr.com/hactar/ "God does not play dice" -- Einstein "Not only does God play dice, he sometimes throws them where they can't be seen." -- Stephen Hawking ###### Message-ID: <3B7849BC.4CFE93DC@ev1.net> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:42:21 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997731781 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (13 Aug 2001 14:43:01 -0500) Lines: 38 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!wesley.videotron.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87397 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net>, > Charles Richmond wrote: > >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> > >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > >> > >My first real programming was in FORTRAN II on an IBM 1620...I > >can vouch for this statement syntax. > > Okay. I simply don't remember it :-). Chalk it up to a long-time > brain fart. > > > ...It was called an > >"arithmetic if statement". The program would branch to one of > >the three statements based on whether the expression in > >parenthesis was negative, zero, or positive. > > Yup. Yup. I've written them. I just didn't associate it with > FORTRAN II. Probably because I remember cheering when FORTRAN IV > included computed GOTOs. > I may be *really* difficult for some of the *young* ones reading this group...but FORTRAN IV *did* contain many things that were great improvements over FORTRAN II. Computed GOTO's (a rudamentary form of "case" statement) and logical "if" statements were a couple of those improvements...added features, actually. I remember when I started programming with a structured language (PL/I), that the indention of code did *not* help me at all. It took me a few weeks to aclimate to this. Of course, now FORTRAN IV source code seems incredibly dense and hard to understand... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3B784AE6.BD083D9A@ev1.net> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:47:19 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <1bae148rug.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997732075 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (13 Aug 2001 14:47:55 -0500) Lines: 25 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87388 Alexandre Pechtchanski wrote: > > On 12 Aug 2001 23:13:43 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > > >Mike Spencer writes: > > [ snip ] > > >> It was *once* such. In my area, that lovely stuff has entered the > >> realm of folklore. Here, duct tape is now a very thin layer of > >> (vinyl?) weather-degradeable plastic over stickum-impregnated cheese > >> cloth. The stickum (that's atechnical term) is still pretty good but > >> the substrate is the pits. > > Ah, so _this_ is why everything seems to come apart! "Duct tape... the stuff > that keeps America together" ;-) > Hey, if your boss is *really* cheap, when you have to go on travel, you may have to fly in the "duct tape" section. That means that you are just duct-taped to the wing... (;-)) -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3B784BAD.78D5A755@ev1.net> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:50:37 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9l7uon$d3i$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <440.625T1451T5865000@nowhere.in.particular> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997732274 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (13 Aug 2001 14:51:14 -0500) Lines: 32 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87384 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > In article <9l7uon$d3i$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> rojaws@mac.com > (Roger Johnstone) writes: > > >Not to mention a Duck brand duct tape. > > > > "A roll of that Duck tape please" > > "Duct tape?" > > "No, Duck tape" > > "This one here, duct tape?" > > "Give me a four-volt, two-watt bulb." > "For what?" > "No, two." > "Two what?" > "That's right." > An old Nazi had been hiding in Argentina for many years. One day he goes into a bar with a friend and asks the bartender: Nazi: "Give me two martinis..." Bartender: "Dry???" Nazi: "No, zwei..." -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: gorilla@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 2001 22:49:24 GMT Organization: Gorilla & Hamster Zoo of Toronto Lines: 19 Message-ID: <997742962.185796@elaine.furryape.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3B784AE6.BD083D9A@ev1.net> <9l9bf8$mpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-161.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test60 (5 October 1997) Cache-Post-Path: elaine.furryape.com!unknown@localhost X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!209.155.233.16!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!elaine.drink.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87210 In article <9l9bf8$mpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>, Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) writes: > >> Hey, if your boss is *really* cheap, when you have to go on travel, >> you may have to fly in the "duct tape" section. That means that >> you are just duct-taped to the wing... (;-)) > > Believe it or not, I did spot some tape on the leading edge of > of a 727(?) wing on a flight from Toronto to Ottawa. > I figured that Tim 'The Tool Man' Taylor had found new employment. This is a normal diagnostic tool on planes. If the pilot complains of a vibration then a special tape will be attached to access doors etc which might be the source. If it is, then the tape will show the location which needs to be looked at. This tape isn't duct-tape, it's quite fragile stuff, so that the smallest vibration will show up. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 2001 23:50:48 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9l9p4o$e6k$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3B784AE6.BD083D9A@ev1.net> <9l9bf8$mpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <997742962.185796@elaine.furryape.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 997746648 14548 134.117.136.30 (13 Aug 2001 23:50:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 2001 23:50:48 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.flash.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87217 Alan Barclay (gorilla@elaine.furryape.com) writes: > In article <9l9bf8$mpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>, > Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >> Believe it or not, I did spot some tape on the leading edge of >> of a 727(?) wing on a flight from Toronto to Ottawa. >> I figured that Tim 'The Tool Man' Taylor had found new employment. > > This is a normal diagnostic tool on planes. If the pilot complains > of a vibration then a special tape will be attached to access doors > etc which might be the source. If it is, then the tape will show the > location which needs to be looked at. > > This tape isn't duct-tape, it's quite fragile stuff, so that the > smallest vibration will show up. Hmmm - I can't tell if this follow-up is in the flavour of the IBM 360 model 69 instruction set post (a model 67 plus 2??). Given the precarious financial state of airlines in Canada at the time, I'd guess a little tape slapped on before takeoff beats putting the kite into the shop for the merciful care of $100 / hour metal benders/riviters. ###### From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 13 Aug 2001 14:21:29 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kop0h$84u$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9krekc$137$16@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010808194912.395baea6.steveo@eircom.net> <531bntg7gitmecrrd7krmd4boevdmjeht3@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 997748489 28678 128.171.80.135 (14 Aug 2001 00:21:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 00:21:29 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87306 >>>>> "David" == David Powell writes: David> We usually had a student apprentice to perform that task. David> If it was a big job, we would borrow another one from the guys next David> door and sit them down one on either side of a table, to work as a David> push-pull pair. The difficult bit was to get them to reproduce the David> function of the output transformer primary. To keep them from David> becoming bored, we multi tasked the job with formatting DECtapes and David> punching paper tape. Occasionally we would give them a fan-fold David> binary paper tape to burst, just to see what happened. Speaking of carriage tapes and trained monkeys, what about the task of punching carriage tapes for the printers DEC used (Analex?) that had punches for every line instead of just the lines one wanted to skip to? One channel punched for every line, another punched every other line for double spacing, another every third .... We used to use making one of these things as an intelligence test - if a person could punch one of these correctly they weren't too smart - I was real good :-) Nothead ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 21:09:41 -0400 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-270.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87330 In article <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > Okay. I simply don't remember it :-). Chalk it up to a long-time > brain fart. I chalk it up to sanity: you erased the memory as unworthy. Arithmetic IF statements were nasty. > Yup. Yup. I've written them. I just didn't associate it with > FORTRAN II. Probably because I remember cheering when FORTRAN IV > included computed GOTOs. ...which were also in FORTRAN II. Got the IBM reference book right here, "FORTRAN II General Information Manual" from the "IBM Systems Reference Library", file number GENL-25, GF28-8074-3, December 1963 edition (minor revision of the 1961 edition), page 24. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 21:27:14 -0400 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <1bae148rug.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-718.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87335 In article , Alexandre Pechtchanski wrote: > Ah, so _this_ is why everything seems to come apart! "Duct tape... the stuff > that keeps America together" ;-) So you're saying that the "Things fall apart; center cannot hold" just needs some duct tape? I'm sure Yeats would appreciate that. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### Message-ID: <3B7896DD.8784F5B3@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l9gk0$njh$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 37 Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 03:32:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.172.215 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 997759956 12.90.172.215 (Tue, 14 Aug 2001 03:32:36 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 03:32:36 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87047 Hactar wrote: > > In article <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: > > Is there a vice equivalent for a screwdriver? > > Maybe (for slotted screws) one of those screwdrivers with a diagonal cut > in the bit like so: > > ___ > | | > | | > | | > \ | > \\| > |\ > | | > | | > | | > --- > > Maybe I have the cut going the wrong direction. Anyhow, the bit gets > thicker (as the cut slips, restrained by a thingy on the shaft) under > clockwise torque. Those are used for holding screws. You push the split bit into the slot, slide the slider so the bit expands and grabs the screw, then you can poke the whole schmeer into the dark abyss where the screw needs to go. For extraction, you can use it after the torque needed is small (i.e. already loosened) and avoid dropping the beastie into the impenetrable works. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 04:26:38 GMT Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net Message-ID: <3b78268d.170597736@news.shuswap.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> <9l8l3i$5sr$1@top.mitre.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm3-27.shuswap.net X-Trace: 13 Aug 2001 21:43:00 -0700, salmonarm3-27.shuswap.net Lines: 23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!feed.textport.net!news.bnb-lp.com!nubby2.!salmonarm3-27.shuswap.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87196 jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: [snip] >...which makes me recall another candidate for the YKYGOW list: > >You remember edge-coated punched cards. Unh! Got me! While we're on the topic, special cards for FORTRAN (notched in the top right instead of top left) and institutional cards (or whatever they were called: cards with a particular institution's name on them). Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 06:32:35 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <997770755snz@dsl.co.uk> References: On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:31:08, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > > In article > > , > > javnews@earthlink.net (John Varela) wrote: > > >On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:44:49, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > > > > >> I was thinking about vices, > > > > > >Care to share your thoughts? > > > > > Beats the shit outa me since you took the comment out of context. > > That's the second time you've done that. You're talking with > > creaky, cranky old people who can't tie their shoelaces anymore. > > No context was needed here, but I'll refresh your memory anyway. The things > you surely were thinking about were vises, but what you said you were > thinking about were vices. vise != vice Not in ENGLISH; the tool and the predilection are spelt the same way. So too is the preposition to indicate substitution for, as in vice-admiral (or even Gen. so-and-so vice Gen. such-and-such used to describe Service appointments). Whereas we *differentiate* between verb and noun forms of advise/advice, license/licence, etc., but AmEnglish doesn't. One might think that if we'd verbed the noun for the tool that it would be spelt vise, but it isn't; that spelling occurs outside N.Am. only in an obsolete verb meaning to look at. So the only question remaining is: how come Barbara's speaking BrEnglish? -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: john.cc@nospam.europlacer.co.uk (John Carlyle-Clarke) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:44:24 +0000 Organization: Europlacer Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l8gck$dgr$9@bob.news.rcn.net> User-Agent: Xnews/4.01.30 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-uk-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.co.uk!pc69.comconnect!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87431 javnews@earthlink.net (John Varela) wrote in : [snip] > >No context was needed here, but I'll refresh your memory anyway. The >things you surely were thinking about were vises, but what you said you >were thinking about were vices. vise != vice > Except on this side of the pond where vice (the tool) and vice (the foible) are the same word. Also the same is vice the preposition, used as in vice- chancellor, vice-chairman etc. Interestingly, all three are from completely different roots, although all Latin. The first (the tool) is from "vis" meaning screw, which itself comes from the word for vine. From that, the US spelling makes good sense. The second is from vitium, whose meaning escapes me at this time, and the third is from a word meaning change. Of course, I had to look all this up and it was an interesting diversion, so thanks. Vice-grips I have heard called Mole-grips sometimes. Are both trademarks I wonder? ###### From: john.cc@nospam.europlacer.co.uk (John Carlyle-Clarke) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:04:10 +0000 Organization: Europlacer Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <1166.621T2130T9505511@nowhere.in.particular> <997434479.20203.0.nnrp-07.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9l13ja$djd$1@panix3.panix.com> <9l1blm$7oj$1@mail.pl.unisys.com> User-Agent: Xnews/4.01.30 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 42 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-uk-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.co.uk!pc69.comconnect!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87432 timothy.mccaffrey@spam2filter.unisys.com.takethisoff (Tim McCaffrey) wrote in <9l1blm$7oj$1@mail.pl.unisys.com>: >In article <9l13ja$djd$1@panix3.panix.com>, John Francis says... >> >>In article <997434479.20203.0.nnrp-07.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk>, >>Peter Ibbotson wrote: >>>"Charlie Gibbs" wrote in message >>>news:1166.621T2130T9505511@nowhere.in.particular... [snip] >>>I really must try and get a better newsreader. Sadly I think I'll find >>>I'll have to write myself, 'cos last time I looked most of the *nix >>>ports to windows were horrid (I have all the RFCs and most of MIME >>>compatible reader etc.) Yet another project to add to the list. >> >>The poor choice of windows-based news readers is >>one reason why I have a panix shell account. > >Try WinVn, available at ftp.ksc.nasa.gov. You can also get the >source, which compiles with Visual C. (/pub/winvn) > > - Tim > I used to use WinVN ages ago, and I thought it was gone forever. Thanks for the pointer! I was going to give a mention to XNews which I really like. It's at http://xnews.3dnews.net/ Failing that, there's always Cygwin... -- John Carlyle-Clarke, Software Engineer Blakell Europlacer, Blandford "Many have tried to formulate rules for software development. We are guided by the ways in which they fail to work." (S. O'Hara-Smith, a.f.c) ###### From: "Don Ames" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B77F773.1C8AD2B1@yahoo.com> <9lb2fc$llh$7@bob.news.rcn.net> Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Lines: 28 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:09:17 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 16.67.117.7 X-Complaints-To: abuse@Compaq.com X-Trace: news.cpqcorp.net 997794598 16.67.117.7 (Tue, 14 Aug 2001 06:09:58 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 06:09:58 PDT Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!news.compaq.com!news.cpqcorp.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87203 BAH; It seems as if a copy of the book described here would be useful to you... http://settlinger.home.mindspring.com/bookindex.html It's the Complete guide to everything sold in hardware stores. I don't have my own copy. (It's a man thing to KNOW this stuff, even if we really don't). As the "Red Green" show segment says, "Repeat after me" "I don't know", being the three words that a man can never utter. /don ....snip >NEAT!!!! I keep discovering that those carpenter guys have >thought of everything. However, I've found that to buy one >I need a magic incantation. It's terribly embarrassing to >ask for a device with a description of its use and have a blank >stare for an answer. The hardware store types who don't like >females invading their territory require the correct lingo. > >/BAH ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3B7808F4.86823E39@thinkage.ca> <9lb351$llh$10@bob.news.rcn.net> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 14 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:11:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.213.74.25 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 997798292 141.213.74.25 (Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:11:32 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:11:32 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87268 In article <9lb351$llh$10@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >In article , > ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: >> Nuther use for black tape: to stick over existing >>shiny places, so that they do not cause reflections. > >We used Vaseline for that. Vaseline? Sounds awfully messy to clean up afterward. Or is that just because it's not in the Universal Toolbox (duct tape, WD-40, pliers, a hammer and a screwdriver)? -- Sergej Roytman ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 14 Aug 2001 14:34:20 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 22 Message-ID: <9lbctc$3ee$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l9gk0$njh$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <3B7896DD.8784F5B3@yahoo.com> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997799660 3534 128.29.251.13 (14 Aug 2001 14:34:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 14:34:20 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87093 CBFalconer writes: >Those are used for holding screws. You push the split bit into >the slot, slide the slider so the bit expands and grabs the screw, >then you can poke the whole schmeer into the dark abyss where the >screw needs to go. For extraction, you can use it after the >torque needed is small (i.e. already loosened) and avoid dropping >the beastie into the impenetrable works. The above text should be corrected by locating the space between "and" and "avoid", then inserting there the phrase "unsuccessfully attempt to". I continue to be amazed at how easy it is to find (too late) the sharp edges in a device when you're fishing for some tiny piece that has dropped into some place that cannot be easily reached. This issue was one that I always looked at a few years ago when there was a parade of evaluation machines going through my office when we were looking for brands and models to make the corporate standard hardware. Joe Morris ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 14 Aug 2001 08:45:07 -0600 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 11 Message-ID: <1bg0auitu4.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <9lb3bo$llh$11@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 997800303 14446 128.123.64.113 (14 Aug 2001 14:45:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 14:45:03 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.news.qwest.net!hardy.tc.umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87112 jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > > The only mystery books worth reading are those written by > BrEnglish authors. Ellery Queen was not British. -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer SWNMRSEF: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 14 Aug 2001 14:51:35 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 21 Message-ID: <9lbdtn$3pq$1@top.mitre.org> References: <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> <9l8l3i$5sr$1@top.mitre.org> <3b78268d.170597736@news.shuswap.net> <2330.625T671T13773588@nowhere.in.particular> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997800695 3898 128.29.251.13 (14 Aug 2001 14:51:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 14:51:35 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87100 "Charlie Gibbs" writes: >Some of these manufacturer's overruns were pretty bad - occasionally >we'd get a batch that would jam constantly, and the operators' >mutterings would become pretty foul. Sometimes the cards would >stick together well enough that I could stand an inch-thick stack >of cards on edge and they'd sit there like a solid block of wood. >When I tried holding one end and whacking the other end against >my hand I almost broke my fingers. You didn't have to buy documented overruns to get lousy cards. At my PPOE at the time (a large state university) we used lots and lots of IBM-brand cards until one month when a bright soul in Purchasing decided to rebid the contract and awarded it to the low bid based solely on price. The Computer Center, of course, was never informed of the switch until the new cards arrived. I doubt that I really have to continue the story; at the next order cycle IBM got the contract again. Joe Morris ###### From: pechter@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 14 Aug 2001 12:16:20 -0400 Organization: Unknown Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9lbisk$85i$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> References: <9lb3bo$llh$11@bob.news.rcn.net> <1bg0auitu4.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bg-tc-ppp1526.monmouth.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.monmouth.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87293 In article <1bg0auitu4.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >> >> The only mystery books worth reading are those written by >> BrEnglish authors. > >Ellery Queen was not British. >-- >Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 >Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 >New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer >SWNMRSEF: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair Hey... neither was Rex Stout IIRC. Bill -- -- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org ###### From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:03:42 +0100 Message-ID: <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B77F773.1C8AD2B1@yahoo.com> <9lb2fc$llh$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 997811884 nnrp-12:9090 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2481.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2481.0000 Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87360 wrote in message news:9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net... > In article , > "Don Ames" wrote: > > > >It's the Complete guide to everything sold in hardware stores. > > Does it have left- and right-pondian translations? > I was wondering what the left-pondians call a "Yankee" screwdriver see: http://www.toolfast.co.uk/styrhd28.html for picture, one of the best tools known to man for scratching a nice varnished surface. I'm not sure I'd even dare to use one now, it always seemed to take a while to get used to it if you've not used it for several months. -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### Message-ID: <3B796C25.B41BBF88@ev1.net> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:21:24 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9l8lp5$62t$1@top.mitre.org> <9lb2s1$llh$9@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997806133 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (14 Aug 2001 11:22:13 -0500) Lines: 18 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87381 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article <9l8lp5$62t$1@top.mitre.org>, > jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: > >....you remember the 36-bit vs 32-bit debates. And you're still > >waiting for DEC to deliver the long-promised Jupiter systems. > > I'm deja vu'ing all over again with their Alpha mess. > Yes, but Alpha was *real*!!! I actually *used* an Alpha workstation running their flavor of Unix (OSF/1). It is one thing to have promised hardware *never* delivered...and quite another to have the hardware ripped from out from under you!!! -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 15 Aug 01 09:55:43 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 17 Message-ID: <9ldqj9$391$4@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9lb3bo$llh$11@bob.news.rcn.net> <1bg0auitu4.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbLoZgSzfgL1fK37bGfT3CTsFJoftCOzvEUerLcXtmncVK70iMPHhpR X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Aug 2001 12:40:09 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.germany.net!news.stealth.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-189 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87477 In article <1bg0auitu4.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >> >> The only mystery books worth reading are those written by >> BrEnglish authors. > >Ellery Queen was not British. No. He was two guys ;-). There are a couple of exceptions. I was thinking about authors who are still producing books. The Brits still try to write with words that have more than 5 letters to them. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 15 Aug 01 11:37:50 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9le0io$1g4$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B77F773.1C8AD2B1@yahoo.com> <9lb2fc$llh$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbmqrX4hfT0zCuO3kVMW0nzDwfF7otKTByBkcpHkqJVPkA5QP8IOKk/ X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Aug 2001 14:22:16 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-23 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87479 In article , "Don Ames" wrote: >BAH; > >"Red Green" is a TV show. See... > >http://www.pbs.org/redgreen/ Another thing to look up at the library. > >I think that it's produced in Canada. We (USA viewers) find it on our PBS >stations. It's made to order for those of us who have past the sunny side >of 50. I got pissed at our PBS station. So I haven't watched that channel for years now. I'll keep a watch for the show. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 15 Aug 01 09:53:36 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9ldqfa$391$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3B7808F4.86823E39@thinkage.ca> <9lb351$llh$10@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVa25qlmK9dWZBmAOJiY34jTITWSFrpynNG88wFUrfbOrfnjxobzPMY4 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Aug 2001 12:38:02 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!comnets.rwth-aachen.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-189 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87480 In article , ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: >In article <9lb351$llh$10@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >>In article , >> ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: >>> Nuther use for black tape: to stick over existing >>>shiny places, so that they do not cause reflections. >> >>We used Vaseline for that. > >Vaseline? Sounds awfully messy to clean up afterward. It was. > .. Or is that just >because it's not in the Universal Toolbox (duct tape, WD-40, pliers, a >hammer and a screwdriver)? I don't recall ever using WD-40 while I was in the play crews. We used everything else...plus spit. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 15 Aug 01 09:52:15 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9ldqcp$391$2@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9l8lp5$62t$1@top.mitre.org> <9lb2s1$llh$9@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B796C25.B41BBF88@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZajiiQH+aybc8/2Jh3vq8PBLCtMq8MP4/2NUnjo4ffUhOUXY1Fzb5j X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Aug 2001 12:36:41 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!lon1-news.nildram.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-189 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87482 In article <3B796C25.B41BBF88@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> In article <9l8lp5$62t$1@top.mitre.org>, >> jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >> >....you remember the 36-bit vs 32-bit debates. And you're still >> >waiting for DEC to deliver the long-promised Jupiter systems. >> >> I'm deja vu'ing all over again with their Alpha mess. >> >Yes, but Alpha was *real*!!! I actually *used* an Alpha workstation >running their flavor of Unix (OSF/1). It is one thing to have promised >hardware *never* delivered...and quite another to have the hardware >ripped from out from under you!!! > PDP-10s were real also. The only difference between the actions Compaq is taking now and the actions Digital took way back when is time. Digital had a 10-year reduction plan; Compaq's seems to be 180 days. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 15 Aug 01 09:56:52 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9ldqle$391$5@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9lb3bo$llh$11@bob.news.rcn.net> <1bg0auitu4.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9lbisk$85i$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZ4rQTKM3rVmgRLzhqM7cqN5E6cbuBatDI3vex7cjE+FerB1WulDKUd X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Aug 2001 12:41:18 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.germany.net!news.stealth.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-189 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87483 In article <9lbisk$85i$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org>, pechter@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) wrote: >In article <1bg0auitu4.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, >Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >>jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >>> >>> The only mystery books worth reading are those written by >>> BrEnglish authors. >> >>Ellery Queen was not British. >>-- >>Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 >>Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 >>New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer >>SWNMRSEF: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair > >Hey... neither was Rex Stout IIRC. But they're not producing new books. I was so disgusted with A&E's idiot Nero Wolfe series. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 15 Aug 01 09:59:37 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lc1k3$1e8$8@news.panix.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbN7+PzNH85QDotleV0G9Dk5w7fC/HifKR0d8J0+HBH7vMCWwg8bNPG X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Aug 2001 12:44:03 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-189 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87485 In article <9lc1k3$1e8$8@news.panix.com>, never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach) wrote: > >In article <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >>In article , >> ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: >>>(Give me a Vice-Grips long enough, and a place to stand...) >>> >>Where would I have to stand to get a carpenter, a plumber >>and/or an electrician to do repair work? > >Next to the phone. Did that. Doesn't work. I am waiting for the recession with baited breath. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:46:11 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <997778771snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> <9l8l3i$5sr$1@top.mitre.org> <3b78268d.170597736@news.shuswap.net> <2330.625T671T13773588@nowhere.in.particular> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 997824138 mail2news:19016 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 72 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87555 In article <2330.625T671T13773588@nowhere.in.particular> cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular "Charlie Gibbs" writes: > In article <3b78268d.170597736@news.shuswap.net> genew@shuswap.net > (Gene Wirchenko) writes: > > >jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: > > >[snip] > > >>...which makes me recall another candidate for the YKYGOW list: > >> > >>You remember edge-coated punched cards. > > > > Unh! Got me! > > Me too. I at first thought that he was referring to edge-punched cards, that were actually "paper-tape"; we had a thread about them in this very froup only a month or two back. > > While we're on the topic, special cards for FORTRAN (notched > >in the top right instead of top left) and institutional cards (or > >whatever they were called: cards with a particular institution's > >name on them). > > Although most cards had a left corner cut, right corner cuts > weren't unknown (whether for FORTRAN source or otherwise). > I think I have a card or two with both corners cut. And, of > course, you have to add in the combinations of cards whose > uncut corners were square, not round - although these were > usually special-purpose or single-use cards, because square > corners tended to fray quickly. Over in Rightpondia, the cards manufactured by ICL (and before them by BTM) all had square corners, with the top-RIGHT corner cut off. They also had a coloured stripe along the top edge. This thread has made me remember when I first started working with computers; the cards we had had got alternating black rectangles printed on the BACK; somewhat like a bar code. This was for the benefit of the card reader on the Elliott 402 computer, which apparently needed these marks as a clock source. By the time we'd moved the work over onto an Elliott 803, with its 400cpm card reader, these marks were no longer necessary: the clock and the speed of flight was presumably more reproducible. (These Elliott readers picked the card off the bottom of the stack with a knife-edge on the sliding platform, which thrust the card, 12-edge first, into a void. As the card started to fall, a pair of pinch rollers grabbed it, and flung it, column-1 first, past the reading photocells. It continued in free-flight into the receiving chamber, where a bent piece of spring steel took the "way" off it gently, when it floated down to land on the other cards in the receiver, the platform of which was slowly driven down by a servo mechanism that photosensed the top of the stack.) That particular card reader had a life longer than any of the computers to which it was attached. Firstly Ferranti interfaced it so that it would work with the Argus 104 computer; then later, when it was redundant, I acquired it from scrap and interfaced it to work with an Elliott 905. If I could find where it is now, I wouldn't mind interfacing it to a PC (perhaps via SCSI); it was a wonderful sight to see these cards flying through the air (albeit only for less than a foot). -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 19 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:42:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.213.74.25 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 997814556 141.213.74.25 (Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:42:36 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:42:36 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!xmission!news.cc.utah.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87526 In article <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk>, Peter Ibbotson wrote: > wrote in message news:9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net... >> In article , >> "Don Ames" wrote: >> >It's the Complete guide to everything sold in hardware stores. >> Does it have left- and right-pondian translations? > >I was wondering what the left-pondians call a "Yankee" screwdriver >see: http://www.toolfast.co.uk/styrhd28.html for picture, one of the best >tools known to man for scratching a nice varnished surface. I'm not sure I'd >even dare to use one now, it always seemed to take a while to get used to it >if you've not used it for several months. "A Yankee screwdriver", as far as I know. Hain't never used one of thim thaings, m'self, not bein' frum th' North (of the USSR, anyway). -- Sergej Roytman ###### From: dscheidt@tumbolia.com (David Scheidt) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 14 Aug 2001 19:25:23 GMT Lines: 28 Sender: David Scheidt Message-ID: <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9l8omt$721$1@top.mitre.org> <997728751snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYtXJkUy/whSeXfJRIFekfdufXMMEbhCHSb8hhuQrCW3S3W/+tACsNd X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 19:25:23 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87491 Joe Morris wrote: : bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) writes: :>... when you can remember various cabinets and other locks being operated :>with Castell[tm] keys. : Ya got me on that one, at least by that name. You're not thinking of : the "ACE" circular keys where the encoding was performed by grinding down : slots on the perimeter, are you? Castell make interlock saftey switches, and such things. They're used to protect high-voltage cabinets, and machines. Typically, to open the hatch, you need to remove the key from the power keyswitch, which means you turn power off, and use the same key to open the lock on the panel/hatch. The key is trapped in that lock until the panel is closed, and locked. I've never seen such a system on a computer. I have seen them on power distribution points and such in machine rooms. : For the YKYGOW top-level thread: : ...you carried a hex key on your keyring to make it easy to get into : the IBM and DEC (and anyone else?) boxes that some bright soul in Some HP boxes. -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:56:54 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 11 Message-ID: <20010814215654.77208356.steveo@eircom.net> References: <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9l7uon$d3i$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <440.625T1451T5865000@nowhere.in.particular> <997735068snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1435.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997821388 65780 194.134.170.160 (14 Aug 2001 20:36:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:36:28 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87502 On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:37:48 GMT bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: BK> Or as the Two Ronnies had it Four Candles. Hmm, snap. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 14 Aug 2001 20:27:47 GMT Organization: A small notepad underneath my in box Lines: 14 Message-ID: <9lc1k3$1e8$8@news.panix.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix1.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 997820867 1480 166.84.1.1 (14 Aug 2001 20:27:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 20:27:47 GMT X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87463 In article <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >In article , > ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: >>(Give me a Vice-Grips long enough, and a place to stand...) >> >Where would I have to stand to get a carpenter, a plumber >and/or an electrician to do repair work? Next to the phone. -- Although golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight Protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing. -- Dave Barry ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:42:56 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <997825376snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <20010814215654.77208356.steveo@eircom.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 997840195 mail2news:21170 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 26 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87553 In article <20010814215654.77208356.steveo@eircom.net> steveo@eircom.net "Steve O'Hara-Smith" writes: > On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:37:48 GMT > bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: > > BK> Or as the Two Ronnies had it Four Candles. > > Hmm, snap. Yep; with the difference in time zones, you beat me to the writing by 35 minutes, although you didn't upload until a few hours later (and I uploaded later still; and at the time downloaded what you had written). It's the very best comedy sketch ever, SFAIAC, and a lot of people agreed with me when they did a recent "say which is the best comedy sketch ever" survey and showed the results on UK TV. "Got any ohs?" -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: Jeff Teunissen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Organization: Dusk To Dawn Computing Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3B79A301.73542944@d2dc.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.7 i686) X-Accept-Language: en-US, en Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:20:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.13.35.106 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.mi.home.com 997827602 24.13.35.106 (Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:20:02 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:20:02 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.mi.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87547 Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: [snip] > Whereas we *differentiate* between verb and noun forms of advise/advice, > license/licence, etc., but AmEnglish doesn't. One might think that if Well, one out of two ain't bad. We have both advise and advice. -- | Jeff Teunissen -=- Pres., Dusk To Dawn Computing -=- deek @ d2dc.net | GPG: 1024D/9840105A 7102 808A 7733 C2F3 097B 161B 9222 DAB8 9840 105A | Core developer, The QuakeForge Project http://www.quakeforge.net/ | Specializing in Debian GNU/Linux http://www.d2dc.net/~deek/ ###### From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 14 Aug 2001 12:31:27 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 997828288 20908 128.171.80.135 (14 Aug 2001 22:31:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 22:31:28 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87533 >>>>> "Howard" == Howard S Shubs writes: Howard> In article <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> Yup. Yup. I've written them. I just didn't associate it with >> FORTRAN II. Probably because I remember cheering when FORTRAN IV >> included computed GOTOs. Howard> ...which were also in FORTRAN II. Got the IBM reference book Howard> right here, "FORTRAN II General Information Manual" from the "IBM Howard> Systems Reference Library", file number GENL-25, GF28-8074-3, Howard> December 1963 edition (minor revision of the 1961 edition), page Howard> 24. Thanks for posting that. That's what I was thinking but didn't want to look too stupid :-) ###### From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 14 Aug 2001 12:39:26 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> <9l8l3i$5sr$1@top.mitre.org> <3b78268d.170597736@news.shuswap.net> <2330.625T671T13773588@nowhere.in.particular> <997778771snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 997828766 20908 128.171.80.135 (14 Aug 2001 22:39:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Aug 2001 22:39:26 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87536 >>>>> "Brian" == Brian {Hamilton Kelly} writes: Brian> In article <2330.625T671T13773588@nowhere.in.particular> Brian> cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular "Charlie Gibbs" writes: >> In article <3b78268d.170597736@news.shuswap.net> genew@shuswap.net >> (Gene Wirchenko) writes: >> >> >jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >> >> >[snip] >> >> >>...which makes me recall another candidate for the YKYGOW list: >> >> >> >>You remember edge-coated punched cards. >> > >> > Unh! Got me! >> >> Me too. Brian> I at first thought that he was referring to edge-punched cards, Brian> that were actually "paper-tape"; we had a thread about them in this Brian> very froup only a month or two back. ... Brian> Over in Rightpondia, the cards manufactured by ICL (and before them by Brian> BTM) all had square corners, with the top-RIGHT corner cut off. They Brian> also had a coloured stripe along the top edge. So does "edge-coated" refer to the stripe or something else I'm too young to remember ? :-) Jim ###### From: j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:49:05 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: <3b79aa6e.1865151@enews.newsguy.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3B7808F4.86823E39@thinkage.ca> <9lb351$llh$10@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-011.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!bos-service1.ext.raytheon.com!cyclone.swbell.net!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87498 Vaseline is used to dull glare and blur mirror-like reflections on camera. This is a totally different tool for a totally different problem than using black tape to totally eliminate reflections from shiny or reflective objects (usually, but not always, off-camera). On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:11:32 GMT, ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: >In article <9lb351$llh$10@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >>In article , >> ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: >>> Nuther use for black tape: to stick over existing >>>shiny places, so that they do not cause reflections. >> >>We used Vaseline for that. > >Vaseline? Sounds awfully messy to clean up afterward. Or is that just >because it's not in the Universal Toolbox (duct tape, WD-40, pliers, a >hammer and a screwdriver)? J. Steven York - www.sff.net/people/j-steven-york - Writer Generation X Novels: Crossroads, Genogoths Bolo, Old Guard (Now in stores, from Baen Books) ###### From: j-steven-york@sff.net (J. Steven York) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:51:15 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3b7aab12.2028665@enews.newsguy.com> References: <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l8gck$dgr$9@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-065.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87497 There was a Mole company that made theatrical and stage lighting (I think they've merged into something else now, but I've been away from that business for years so I'm not sure). Wonder if this is related to gaffer tape? On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:44:24 +0000, john.cc@nospam.europlacer.co.uk (John Carlyle-Clarke) wrote: >Vice-grips I have heard called Mole-grips sometimes. Are both trademarks I >wonder? J. Steven York - www.sff.net/people/j-steven-york - Writer Generation X Novels: Crossroads, Genogoths Bolo, Old Guard (Now in stores, from Baen Books) ###### From: ic0cdfw00@ic24.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 00:42:16 +0100 Lines: 57 Message-ID: <09djntglp2mfa9iam8dsgst9v04vvj4g8g@4ax.com> References: <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> <9l8l3i$5sr$1@top.mitre.org> <3b78268d.170597736@news.shuswap.net> <2330.625T671T13773588@nowhere.in.particular> <997778771snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: tony.lenton@physics.org NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-31-86.dialup.lineone.co.uk (213.123.31.86) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 997832698 9146766 213.123.31.86 (16 [88156]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!host213-123-31-86.dialup.lineone.co.UK!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87556 On 14 Aug 2001 12:39:26 -1000, Jim Thomas wrote: >>>>>> "Brian" == Brian {Hamilton Kelly} writes: > > Brian> In article <2330.625T671T13773588@nowhere.in.particular> > Brian> cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular "Charlie Gibbs" writes: > > >> In article <3b78268d.170597736@news.shuswap.net> genew@shuswap.net > >> (Gene Wirchenko) writes: > >> > >> >jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: > >> > >> >[snip] > >> > >> >>...which makes me recall another candidate for the YKYGOW list: > >> >> > >> >>You remember edge-coated punched cards. > >> > > >> > Unh! Got me! > >> > >> Me too. > > Brian> I at first thought that he was referring to edge-punched cards, > Brian> that were actually "paper-tape"; we had a thread about them in this > Brian> very froup only a month or two back. > >... > > Brian> Over in Rightpondia, the cards manufactured by ICL (and before them by > Brian> BTM) all had square corners, with the top-RIGHT corner cut off. They > Brian> also had a coloured stripe along the top edge. > >So does "edge-coated" refer to the stripe or something else I'm too young >to remember ? :-) > >Jim Sorry about quoting all of the above. ISTR that IBM cards could be obtained with any customer desired coloured printing, round corners or not, top left or top right corner cuts, stripes anywhere you wanted, you name it, you got it, but not bottom corner cuts. Now to edge coated cards. AFAIR these were some coating on cards which were going to be pushed time after time through card feeding machinery. Why would that be? Well databases are the answer. Bang the database (cards) through the 084 sorter (2000 cpm)and get your answer. Crude but that's how it was when your shop had a 1.4K IBM1401 system and thousands of products available for sale to your customers and each stock item was recorded on a punched card. That's the way it was. Don't knock it with your 20/20 hindsight. -- aml ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:57:29 -0400 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-288.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87542 In article <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > At this point, I have no idea what we are arguing about. I thought > I was reminiscing(sp?). We're not arguing; I just reminded you that computed GOTO was in FORTRAN II, that's all. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:07:57 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 27 Message-ID: <20010815080757.1114d1b4.steveo@eircom.net> References: <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <20010814215654.77208356.steveo@eircom.net> <997825376snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p0992.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997894812 73824 194.134.202.229 (15 Aug 2001 17:00:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:00:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!news.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87509 On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:42:56 GMT bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: BK> Yep; with the difference in time zones, you beat me to the writing by 35 BK> minutes, although you didn't upload until a few hours later (and I BK> uploaded later still; and at the time downloaded what you had written). The wonder of USENET, not only can this sort of thing happen but afterwards you can even see exactly how it happened. If it ever got to be a legal issue lawyers could get very rich on USENET and publication times. BK> It's the very best comedy sketch ever, SFAIAC, and a lot of people agreed BK> with me when they did a recent "say which is the best comedy sketch ever" BK> survey and showed the results on UK TV. That one and I seem to recal a rather excellent one about people who get their worms cufuffled (sp ?) from the same team. BK> "Got any ohs?" :) -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: "Don Ames" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B77F773.1C8AD2B1@yahoo.com> <9lb2fc$llh$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Lines: 22 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:17:03 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 16.67.117.7 X-Complaints-To: abuse@Compaq.com X-Trace: news.cpqcorp.net 997877868 16.67.117.7 (Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:17:48 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:17:48 PDT Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!news.compaq.com!news.cpqcorp.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87499 BAH; "Red Green" is a TV show. See... http://www.pbs.org/redgreen/ I think that it's produced in Canada. We (USA viewers) find it on our PBS stations. It's made to order for those of us who have past the sunny side of 50. /don > >"Red Green"? Is this a TV show? Or a seminar? > >/BAH > ###### From: Mike Swaim Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B77F773.1C8AD2B1@yahoo.com> <9lb2fc$llh$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> User-Agent: tin/1.4.1-19991201 ("Polish") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.19pre17-idepci (i686)) Lines: 18 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:08:06 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-V7wp5V/JsD5anfiVYnskdZ3s4SvR1A0l70mV61tIL3x2F8Izlc1M/quODjypXyLCJfU+9LaBSuw14DN!H1VODUXuOylPsSJt8KN63owqDn3nWQO+ntVmuvOKw/rgzpy1hLbsJ6uwo2zqJJd5znwZaoDgNTWN!8Q== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:08:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news4.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87532 Don Ames wrote: > BAH; > "Red Green" is a TV show. See... > http://www.pbs.org/redgreen/ > I think that it's produced in Canada. We (USA viewers) find it on our PBS > stations. It's made to order for those of us who have past the sunny side > of 50. I used to own a roll of duct tape signed by Red Green. It got stolen, with my stereo, CDs, and lasagna. -- Mike Swaim, Avatar of Chaos: Disclaimer: I sometimes lie Home: swaim at nol * net Quote: "Boingie"^4 Y, W & D ###### From: nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 15 Aug 2001 17:41:34 GMT Organization: Around here? Lines: 23 Message-ID: <9lec8e$ieg$2@uranium.btinternet.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3B784AE6.BD083D9A@ev1.net> <9l9bf8$mpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <997742962.185796@elaine.furryape.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-103-164.btinternet.com User-Agent: Xnews/4.04.17tea Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!195.158.233.21!news1.ebone.net!news.ebone.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87529 gorilla@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) wrote in <997742962.185796 @elaine.furryape.com>: > This is a normal diagnostic tool on planes. If the pilot complains > of a vibration then a special tape will be attached to access doors > etc which might be the source. If it is, then the tape will show the > location which needs to be looked at. > > This tape isn't duct-tape, it's quite fragile stuff, so that the > smallest vibration will show up. > We were disconcerted, some years ago, when we reported a crack in the office wall...particularly as the wall was holding up another couple of floors. A man in overalls and a flat hat came along with brown paper strip and stuck little bits over the crack. We were never quite convinced that this was a diagnosis and not a repair. -- I have a quantum car. Every time I look at the speedometer I get lost... barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk ###### Message-ID: <3B7ACB01.2A216167@thinkage.ca> From: "Alan T. Bowler" Organization: Thinkage Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B77F773.1C8AD2B1@yahoo.com> <9lb2fc$llh$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 8 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:18:25 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.102.11.4 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 997903105 192.102.11.4 (Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:18:25 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:18:25 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.cgocable.net!localhost.localdomain!feed.nntp.primus.ca!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87458 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > "Red Green"? Is this a TV show? Or a seminar? It's a Canadian TV comedy show. PBS stations show it from time to time. Major premise that "all problems can be fixed with more duct tape." ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 15 Aug 01 16:33:08 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: <574.627T428T9933489@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lc1k3$1e8$8@news.panix.com> <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <997898978snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-986.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lmu.de!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87607 In article <997898978snz@dsl.co.uk> bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) writes: >In article <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >> Did that. Doesn't work. I am waiting for the recession with >> baited breath. > >Going fishing? You're thinking of the cat who ate some cheese and then waited by the mouse hole with baited breath. (Hint: the proper spelling is "bated". Also, we speak of giving someone free rein as in horses, not free reign as in kings.) -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 15 Aug 01 22:35:13 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 31 Message-ID: <921.627T655T13554080@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-778.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87610 In article <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> richmond@ev1.net (Charles Richmond) writes: >Howard S Shubs wrote: > >> In article <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> > At this point, I have no idea what we are arguing about. I thought >> > I was reminiscing(sp?). >> >> We're not arguing; I just reminded you that computed GOTO was in >> FORTRAN II, that's all. >> >Evidently so...but can anyone explain the difference between "computed >GOTO" and "calculated GOTO"...these both are "case" type statements, >but IIRC, they *are* different... I've never heard of a "calculated GOTO". Are you perhaps thinking of the "assigned GOTO"? I only used it once, gratuitously: INTEGER HELL ASSIGN 40 TO HELL GOTO HELL,(10,20,30,40) I just wanted the opportunity to tell the machine to go to hell. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:09:38 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <997898978snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lc1k3$1e8$8@news.panix.com> <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 997904851 mail2news:28759 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 13 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87642 In article <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > Did that. Doesn't work. I am waiting for the recession with > baited breath. Going fishing? -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: alan.nospam@glaramara.freeserve.co.uk (Alan J. Wylie) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 15 Aug 2001 22:12:50 +0100 Organization: very little Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B759917.7FBD0D91@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-937.toobed.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk 997981750 23761 62.25.199.169 (16 Aug 2001 17:09:10 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Aug 2001 17:09:10 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!linuxbox.ajwnet!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87575 On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:44:08 -0700, Charles Richmond said: > And if you are lucky, the carpenter, plumber, and > electrician will *not* be unionized... Somehow, I don't think I could trust an ionized electrician. -- Alan J. Wylie http://www.glaramara.freeserve.co.uk/ "Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but rather when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 15 Aug 2001 22:13:49 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 7 Message-ID: <9les6t$7sc$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 997913629 8076 128.29.251.13 (15 Aug 2001 22:13:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Aug 2001 22:13:49 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87573 ...you know what a 5081 was. (Hint: it's not a vacuum tube, and it's not a model number of a computer or peripheral. Almost every DP professional of the time has seen the results of its use, but it would have been very rare for one to be found even in the largest of computer shops.) Joe Morris ###### From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 15 Aug 2001 12:20:07 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> <9l8l3i$5sr$1@top.mitre.org> <3b78268d.170597736@news.shuswap.net> <2330.625T671T13773588@nowhere.in.particular> <997778771snz@dsl.co.uk> <09djntglp2mfa9iam8dsgst9v04vvj4g8g@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 997914008 16132 128.171.80.135 (15 Aug 2001 22:20:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Aug 2001 22:20:08 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87615 >>>>> "aml" == ic0cdfw00 writes: aml> Well databases are the answer. Bang the database (cards) through the 084 aml> sorter (2000 cpm)and get your answer. Crude but that's how it was when aml> your shop had a 1.4K IBM1401 system and thousands of products available aml> for sale to your customers and each stock item was recorded on a punched aml> card. Naw, that was a collator job, not a sorter job. Punch up the orders, sort them, and put them in one hopper. Put the "database" in the other hopper. Put in your order match board (plug in wire panel). Punch start. That was the 088 (or 188 if you were lucky :-) The order cards would have had a quantity field. The collator panel could be wired to select out that many cards from the stock cards, etc... Jim ###### From: ic0cdfw00@ic24.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 00:58:39 +0100 Lines: 54 Message-ID: References: <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> <9l8l3i$5sr$1@top.mitre.org> <3b78268d.170597736@news.shuswap.net> <2330.625T671T13773588@nowhere.in.particular> <997778771snz@dsl.co.uk> <09djntglp2mfa9iam8dsgst9v04vvj4g8g@4ax.com> Reply-To: tony.lenton@physics.org NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-33-153.dialup.lineone.co.uk (213.123.33.153) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 997920083 9443524 213.123.33.153 (16 [88156]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!host213-123-33-153.dialup.lineone.co.UK!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87613 On 15 Aug 2001 12:20:07 -1000, Jim Thomas wrote: >>>>>> "aml" == ic0cdfw00 writes: > > aml> Well databases are the answer. Bang the database (cards) through the 084 > aml> sorter (2000 cpm)and get your answer. Crude but that's how it was when > aml> your shop had a 1.4K IBM1401 system and thousands of products available > aml> for sale to your customers and each stock item was recorded on a punched > aml> card. > >Naw, that was a collator job, not a sorter job. Punch up the orders, sort >them, and put them in one hopper. Put the "database" in the other hopper. >Put in your order match board (plug in wire panel). Punch start. That was >the 088 (or 188 if you were lucky :-) Such luxury. The collater available was an 077! And it was one of those that in the early 1960s that IBM World Trade had made in India!!!! [1] I agree an 088 would have been a starter, [2]. The 084 (at 2000 cpm) managed adequately. >The order cards would have had a quantity field. The collator panel could >be wired to select out that many cards from the stock cards, etc... > Not really. Each item in stock had its own punched card. If a stock item was despatched the pulled card was used to provide an invoice, and then the card was stored for "future use". New items for stock, i.e accepted as saleable after a long manufacturing process [3], had their own punched card. [1] Excuse the multiple exclamation marks, but you should understand that the Indian 077 was manufactured to some original engineering spec, with Queen Anne legs and skew drive gears. This was 1962. The current 077 made in France, at that time, was much more modern looking, and more to the point had all the engineering mods, specifically bevel gear drive. [4] [2] ISTR the Achilles heel of the 088 was some wonderful relay. Was it called a permissive make relay? Anyway the failure of the relay(s) would result in mis-collation with no error indication. [3] The product was linoleum. The company had its own cotton spinning mill, weaving mill and paint production facility (reputed in the early 60s to produce more paint than ICI). [4] Technical stuff here, bevel gears worked, skew gears wear and eventually cause card feeding and reading (with 80 column wire brush blocks) problems. -- aml ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 16 Aug 2001 06:15:55 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 8 Message-ID: <9lfoer$l6g$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lc1k3$1e8$8@news.panix.com> <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <997898978snz@dsl.co.uk> <574.627T428T9933489@nowhere.in.particular> <3B7B67FF.43069053@ev1.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 997942555 21712 134.117.136.30 (16 Aug 2001 06:15:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Aug 2001 06:15:55 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.flash.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87596 Charles Richmond (richmond@ev1.net) writes: > Hey, I have seen people use "to wet my appetite"...instead of > "to whet my appetite", as in to sharpen it... I guess it is a > "moot point"...although I have heard people say it is a > "mute point"... Duh!!! Definately - lets not waist another minite checkin this out. ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 02:16:04 -0400 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-856.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87623 In article <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: > Evidently so...but can anyone explain the difference between "computed GOTO" > and "calculated GOTO"...these both are "case" type statements, but IIRC, > they *are* different... "computed GOTO" is the term used in the FORTRAN II manual I mentioned. It looks like GOTO (10,39,37,84), J where 10, 39, 37, and 84 are each statement label numbers J is an integer variable with a value of 1 through 4, which will make the GOTO transfer control to label 10, 39, 37, or 84, repectively. Or, as the manual titled "IBM 1130/1800 Basic FORTRAN IV Language", file no. 1130/1800-25, order no. GC26-3715-9, of 1971 says on page 10, GOTO (n1, n2, ..., nm), i where n1, n2, ..., nm are statement numbers and i is a non-subscripted integer variable whose value is greater than or equal to 1 and less than or equal to the number of statement numbers within the parenthesis. I'm not sure what you're referring to as "calculated GOTO" unless it's some other word to refer to the same statement. Or maybe that's an assigned GOTO, which isn't in either of these two manuals that I'm aware of, but seems to be in FORTRAN 77 (ANSI FORTRAN-extended). In 21 years of programming in FORTRAN, 14 of them in the field, I've -never- seen a need for the ASSIGNed GOTO. It appears to have been deleted from F95, and is no loss to the world IMHO. Okay, I've found a reference to a "computed GOTO" in one text book ("Programming in FORTRAN" by Schallert and Clark, 1979), which teaches both the original ANSI Standard FORTRAN (ANSI X3.9 1966) and the (then new) F77 standards. It's referring to what IBM referred to as a "calculated GOTO". Does that answer your question? -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### Message-ID: <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:23:07 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997935836 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (15 Aug 2001 23:23:56 -0500) Lines: 18 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!5185502!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87636 Howard S Shubs wrote: > > In article <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > > At this point, I have no idea what we are arguing about. I thought > > I was reminiscing(sp?). > > We're not arguing; I just reminded you that computed GOTO was in FORTRAN II, > that's all. > Evidently so...but can anyone explain the difference between "computed GOTO" and "calculated GOTO"...these both are "case" type statements, but IIRC, they *are* different... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3B7B67FF.43069053@ev1.net> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:28:14 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lc1k3$1e8$8@news.panix.com> <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <997898978snz@dsl.co.uk> <574.627T428T9933489@nowhere.in.particular> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997936143 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (15 Aug 2001 23:29:03 -0500) Lines: 26 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87629 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > In article <997898978snz@dsl.co.uk> bhk@dsl.co.uk > (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) writes: > > >In article <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > > > >> Did that. Doesn't work. I am waiting for the recession with > >> baited breath. > > > >Going fishing? > > You're thinking of the cat who ate some cheese and then waited > by the mouse hole with baited breath. (Hint: the proper spelling > is "bated". Also, we speak of giving someone free rein as in > horses, not free reign as in kings.) > Hey, I have seen people use "to wet my appetite"...instead of "to whet my appetite", as in to sharpen it... I guess it is a "moot point"...although I have heard people say it is a "mute point"... Duh!!! -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:47:20 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 18 Message-ID: <20010816084720.45ecabcd.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1381.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997981212 57000 194.134.170.106 (16 Aug 2001 17:00:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:00:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!transit.news.xs4all.nl!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87606 On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:23:07 -0700 Charles Richmond wrote: CR> Evidently so...but can anyone explain the difference between "computed GOTO" CR> and "calculated GOTO"...these both are "case" type statements, but IIRC, CR> they *are* different... Calculated GOTO, IIRC that be where the line number of the target is in an expression, whereas with computed goto the expression is an index into a fixed list of line numbers. The calculated GOTO I only ever saw in some BASIC dialects, powerful, compact and nearly impossible to debug when it goes wrong, especially if the line didn't exist, at least one would happily and silently, GOTO the next line! -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:51:50 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 17 Message-ID: <20010816085150.18f65e00.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lc1k3$1e8$8@news.panix.com> <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <997898978snz@dsl.co.uk> <574.627T428T9933489@nowhere.in.particular> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1381.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997981212 57000 194.134.170.106 (16 Aug 2001 17:00:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:00:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.online.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87599 On 15 Aug 01 16:33:08 -0800 "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: CG> is "bated". Also, we speak of giving someone free rein as in CG> horses, not free reign as in kings.) Yep, these days monarchs pay for their reign, in the UK at least. Ever since dear Maggie started taxing them, it always seemed strange to me that, I mean in principle the monarch is the one the taxes are paid to. Ah well, the world is under no obligation to make sense, especially at this temperature and humidity level :) -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: "Reynir H. Stefansson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <3B6D8612.8E8909DE@earthlink.net> <3b76fc0d.751212191@enews.newsguy.com> <3B7315CF.91E7F81D@transdata.co.nz> <3B735412.7BE59589@yahoo.com> <3B770EA3.9006AF42@convex.pt> Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:13:01 -0000 Lines: 7 Organization: Lacking**max! X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.30.221.59 Message-ID: <3b7c2054.0@news.isholf.is> X-Trace: 16 Aug 2001 12:34:44 -0800, 212.30.221.59 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!195.161.0.203!newsfeed.rt.ru!demos!news.rssi.ru!mtu.ru!nntp1.aeq.teleglobe.net!teleglobe.net!news.isholf.is!212.30.221.59 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87569 > "end for" ???? are you out of your mind ???????? No, he isn't. The Sinclair QL has no NEXT. It has END FOR. Reynir H. Stefansson ###### From: never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 16 Aug 2001 15:25:38 GMT Organization: A small notepad underneath my in box Lines: 13 Message-ID: <9lgoli$iqd$1@news.panix.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 997975538 19277 166.84.1.2 (16 Aug 2001 15:25:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Aug 2001 15:25:38 GMT X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.online.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87583 In article , Howard S Shubs wrote: >in FORTRAN 77 (ANSI FORTRAN-extended). In 21 years of programming in FORTRAN, >14 of them in the field, I've -never- seen a need for the ASSIGNed GOTO. It >appears to have been deleted from F95, and is no loss to the world IMHO. Oh but there is an extremely important reason for having ASSIGN GOTO. If it isn't in the compiler then the compiler won't pass the proof of performance test! -- The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was. ###### Message-ID: <3B7C04CA.3CE249F3@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7849BC.4CFE93DC@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 33 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:46:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.123.161 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 997983998 168.191.123.161 (Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:46:38 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:46:38 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:44:01 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87579 Charles Richmond wrote: > I may be *really* difficult for some of the *young* ones reading > this group...but FORTRAN IV *did* contain many things that were > great improvements over FORTRAN II. Computed GOTO's (a rudamentary > form of "case" statement) and logical "if" statements were a couple > of those improvements...added features, actually. > > I remember when I started programming with a structured language > (PL/I), that the indention of code did *not* help me at all. It > took me a few weeks to aclimate to this. Of course, now FORTRAN IV > source code seems incredibly dense and hard to understand... In the late 70's I came across a FORTRAN preprocessor called FLECS (FORTRAN Language with Extended Control Structures) which I believe came from Univ. of Oregon which provided a structured front end to FORTRAN. The resulting FORTRAN code was obtuse as it used the computed go to to implement its "procedure calls". I came to like it and used it up till the late 80's for systems using both DEC and DG FORTRAN's. Anyone else experience it or can tell a little about its history? I wonder if it is still available? It was not necessary to indent the source code as the preprocessor would automatically indent the listing. Chris AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ ###### From: rsteiner@isis.visi.com (Richard C. Steiner) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> Organization: Vector Internet Services, Inc. Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Lines: 40 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:18:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.98.98.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@visi.com X-Trace: ruti.visi.com 997985883 209.98.98.8 (Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:18:03 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:18:03 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!ruti.visi.com!rsteiner Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87624 In article , Howard S Shubs wrote: >I'm not sure what you're referring to as "calculated GOTO" unless it's some >other word to refer to the same statement. Or maybe that's an assigned GOTO, >which isn't in either of these two manuals that I'm aware of, but seems to be >in FORTRAN 77 (ANSI FORTRAN-extended). In 21 years of programming in FORTRAN, >14 of them in the field, I've -never- seen a need for the ASSIGNed GOTO. It >appears to have been deleted from F95, and is no loss to the world IMHO. As an aside, the Assigned GOTO statement is supported by the Sperry UNIVAC FIELDATA FORTRAN V compiler (Pre-FORTRAN 77). People seem to have used it a lot to set up return points from error routines and such by storing line numbers in a switch variable, e.g.: ASSIGN 100 TO ERRTN IF (HAVE - ERROR1) 999,, C 100 ASSIGN 200 TO ERRTN IF (HAVE - ERROR2) 999,, C 200 CONTINUE . . . 999 PRINT *,'ERROR OCCURRED. BAD USER!' GOTO ERRTN It looks like an Assigned GOTO could also assume the form GOTO ERRRTN,(100,200,300) where the line numbers in parenthesis are checked at compilation time as an additional sanity check of the ASSIGN statements in the program. -- -Rich Steiner >>>---> rsteiner@visi.com >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN Written online using slrn 0.9.5.4! The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then. ###### From: rsteiner@isis.visi.com (Richard C. Steiner) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> Organization: Vector Internet Services, Inc. Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Lines: 17 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:22:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.98.98.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@visi.com X-Trace: ruti.visi.com 997986142 209.98.98.8 (Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:22:22 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:22:22 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!zeus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ruti.visi.com!rsteiner Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87625 In article , Richard C. Steiner wrote: > ASSIGN 100 TO ERRTN > IF (HAVE - ERROR1) 999,, Sorry to reply to my own posting, but it just struck me that ASSIGN 100 TO ERRTN IF (HAVE - ERROR1) ,999, would make a lot more sense. :-) -- -Rich Steiner >>>---> rsteiner@visi.com >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN Written online using slrn 0.9.5.4! The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then. ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:07:19 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 12 Message-ID: <20010816220719.7c45cd5f.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> <20010816084720.45ecabcd.steveo@eircom.net> <3B7C3B01.667A1054@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1122.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 997992789 15366 194.134.203.103 (16 Aug 2001 20:13:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:13:09 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87604 On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:28:32 -0700 Charles Richmond wrote: CR> "It's *not* a bug...it's a feature!!!" Where would you *like* it to go CR> when the line does *not* exist??? Error trap would be nice. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### Message-ID: <3B7C3A84.523D5305@ev1.net> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:26:27 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997990026 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (16 Aug 2001 14:27:06 -0500) Lines: 45 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87627 Howard S Shubs wrote: > > In article <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond > wrote: > > > Evidently so...but can anyone explain the difference between "computed GOTO" > > and "calculated GOTO"...these both are "case" type statements, but IIRC, > > they *are* different... > > "computed GOTO" is the term used in the FORTRAN II manual I mentioned. It > looks like > > GOTO (10,39,37,84), J > where 10, 39, 37, and 84 are each statement label numbers > J is an integer variable with a value of 1 through 4, which will make > the GOTO transfer control to label 10, 39, 37, or 84, repectively. > > Or, as the manual titled "IBM 1130/1800 Basic FORTRAN IV Language", file no. > 1130/1800-25, order no. GC26-3715-9, of 1971 says on page 10, > > GOTO (n1, n2, ..., nm), i > where n1, n2, ..., nm are statement numbers and i is a non-subscripted integer > variable whose value is greater than or equal to 1 and less than or equal to > the number of statement numbers within the parenthesis. > > I'm not sure what you're referring to as "calculated GOTO" unless it's some > other word to refer to the same statement. Or maybe that's an assigned GOTO, > which isn't in either of these two manuals that I'm aware of, but seems to be > in FORTRAN 77 (ANSI FORTRAN-extended). In 21 years of programming in FORTRAN, > 14 of them in the field, I've -never- seen a need for the ASSIGNed GOTO. It > appears to have been deleted from F95, and is no loss to the world IMHO. > You are *right*!!! I was thinking about the ASSIGN'ed GOTO. I have actually used an ASSIGN'ed GOTO in a F77 program once. I used it to simulate recursion in an F77 program... I had a symbol table in a sorted AVL tree, and needed to process the tree in-order to print the sorted symbol table. IMHO recursion is the *best* way to do this, so I used the ASSIGN'ed GOTO to simulate the recursion. (Recursion was *not* supported in that version of F77.) And simulated recursion is *fast*!!! Probably because there is *no* function call overhead involved. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3B7C3B01.667A1054@ev1.net> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:28:32 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> <20010816084720.45ecabcd.steveo@eircom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997990150 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (16 Aug 2001 14:29:10 -0500) Lines: 23 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87626 Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:23:07 -0700 > Charles Richmond wrote: > > CR> Evidently so...but can anyone explain the difference between "computed GOTO" > CR> and "calculated GOTO"...these both are "case" type statements, but IIRC, > CR> they *are* different... > > Calculated GOTO, IIRC that be where the line number of the target > is in an expression, whereas with computed goto the expression is an index > into a fixed list of line numbers. The calculated GOTO I only ever saw in > some BASIC dialects, powerful, compact and nearly impossible to debug when > it goes wrong, especially if the line didn't exist, at least one would > happily and silently, GOTO the next line! > "It's *not* a bug...it's a feature!!!" Where would you *like* it to go when the line does *not* exist??? -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:30:11 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B759917.7FBD0D91@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997990249 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (16 Aug 2001 14:30:49 -0500) Lines: 17 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87633 "Alan J. Wylie" wrote: > > On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:44:08 -0700, Charles Richmond said: > > > And if you are lucky, the carpenter, plumber, and > > electrician will *not* be unionized... > > Somehow, I don't think I could trust an ionized electrician. > Well, ionized is *better* than onionized...because onionized electricians smell awful!!! Of course, either way, they can make you cry...when you get the *bill*!!! -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3B7C3BFB.FD423892@ev1.net> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:32:42 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lc1k3$1e8$8@news.panix.com> <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <997898978snz@dsl.co.uk> <574.627T428T9933489@nowhere.in.particular> <20010816085150.18f65e00.steveo@eircom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 997990400 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (16 Aug 2001 14:33:20 -0500) Lines: 21 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87634 Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > On 15 Aug 01 16:33:08 -0800 > "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: > > CG> is "bated". Also, we speak of giving someone free rein as in > CG> horses, not free reign as in kings.) > > Yep, these days monarchs pay for their reign, in the UK at least. > Ever since dear Maggie started taxing them, it always seemed strange to > me that, I mean in principle the monarch is the one the taxes are paid to. > Well, in the U.S., we have the best govenrment that money can buy. (As Mark Twain said.) And *most* of the members of Congress have purchased their positions...by taking campaign "contributions" from groups who expect to get their agendas acted on... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 17 Aug 01 09:03:53 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 15 Message-ID: <9lj0an$4ts$6@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lc1k3$1e8$8@news.panix.com> <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <997898978snz@dsl.co.uk> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYQKHm0PfihXfI2gowYHNUm0oNv9On66mwwAI5BxoQeMuNzwWx+8Vl5 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Aug 2001 11:48:39 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-65 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87680 In article <997898978snz@dsl.co.uk>, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: >In article <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >> Did that. Doesn't work. I am waiting for the recession with >> baited breath. > >Going fishing? It would be nice if I could use bait in exchange for the work. Money sure as hell doesn't do the trick. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 17 Aug 01 08:20:20 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 23 Message-ID: <9litp3$sqb$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <997770755snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lb3bo$llh$11@bob.news.rcn.net> <1bg0auitu4.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9ldqj9$391$4@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYOTNLRHlAkiZK33TBGx/Iqq3xg9LdcO1Nn+5GyN3lo8DE0ABQ+gpu6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Aug 2001 11:05:07 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-65 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87688 In article , lysse wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >: No. He was two guys ;-). There are a couple of exceptions. >: I was thinking about authors who are still producing books. >: The Brits still try to write with words that have more than >: 5 letters to them. > >This Brit has rather a thing for Sara Paretsky. What do you think? She's on the border line. I don't throw her books across the room. She spends way too much time dwelling on the character's depression, an aspect of the detective genre in the States these days. I enjoy the books written under the names of Emma Lathen and Jane Haddam. Both include humor. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 17 Aug 01 08:09:01 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 22 Message-ID: <9lit3s$sqb$2@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lc1k3$1e8$8@news.panix.com> <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <997898978snz@dsl.co.uk> <574.627T428T9933489@nowhere.in.particular> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbXbEAPsMVv0x6AS0auh2QOFc4OibPRR6aBrZn0Znf2DaRrGspoGhDL X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Aug 2001 10:53:48 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-65 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87689 In article <574.627T428T9933489@nowhere.in.particular>, "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >In article <997898978snz@dsl.co.uk> bhk@dsl.co.uk >(Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) writes: > >>In article <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >> >>> Did that. Doesn't work. I am waiting for the recession with >>> baited breath. >> >>Going fishing? > >You're thinking of the cat who ate some cheese and then waited >by the mouse hole with baited breath. (Hint: the proper spelling >is "bated". Also, we speak of giving someone free rein as in >horses, not free reign as in kings.) > Rats. My fingers loused up again. Thanks for the correction :-). /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 16 Aug 01 21:36:03 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 26 Message-ID: <902.628T192T12963541@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9les6t$7sc$1@top.mitre.org> <4rr7ikdf.fsf@cfl.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-389.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87717 In article <4rr7ikdf.fsf@cfl.rr.com> gcash@cfl.rr.SPAMM.com (gcash) writes: >jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: > >> ...you know what a 5081 was. > >IBM Form #5081, AKA punch cards.... > >I think... but my copy of "IBM Electronic Data Processing Machine >Operation" is at work, and it's the only one that actually gives that >number. Close, but no cigar. 5081 is not the card itself, but the pattern printed on it (80 columns of numbers 0 through 9, with rows 11 and 12 left blank). It's the "electro number", which I presume refers to some sort of electroplating process used to make the printing plate. Cards printed with different patterns have different electro numbers identifying them. Colour, being a characteristic of the card stock, doesn't enter into it; I have 5081s in all sorts of colours. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:21:54 -0400 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> <9lgoli$iqd$1@news.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-261.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87729 In article <9lgoli$iqd$1@news.panix.com>, never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach) wrote: > Oh but there is an extremely important reason for having ASSIGN GOTO. If > it isn't in the compiler then the compiler won't pass the proof of > performance test! Not anymore! The F95 standard has removed ASSIGN and it's ilk from the language. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:23:13 -0400 Organization: ='SEQUENTIAL' Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B759917.7FBD0D91@ev1.net> <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-272.newsdawg.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!howard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87728 In article <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: > Well, ionized is *better* than onionized...because onionized > electricians smell awful!!! Of course, either way, they can > make you cry...when you get the *bill*!!! It gets worse if they're looped on drugs. Electrical fried onion rings... oh, I can't go anywhere with this. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### Sender: root@cfl.rr.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9les6t$7sc$1@top.mitre.org> From: gcash X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Message-ID: <4rr7ikdf.fsf@cfl.rr.com> Lines: 16 Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:46:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.57.236 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.tampabay.rr.com 998009190 65.33.57.236 (Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:46:30 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:46:30 EDT Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!typhoon.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87663 jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: > ...you know what a 5081 was. IBM Form #5081, AKA punch cards.... I think... but my copy of "IBM Electronic Data Processing Machine Operation" is at work, and it's the only one that actually gives that number. -gc -- Favorite god: Thor Favorite song: "Hammer Time" Motto: "Use a bigger hammer" In my toolbox: 1 screwdriver, 6 hammers. Often heard saying: "... then I used a hammer on it" ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:04:57 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <998010297snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 998030382 mail2news:15534 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87741 In article <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> richmond@ev1.net "Charles Richmond" writes: > "Alan J. Wylie" wrote: > > > > On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:44:08 -0700, Charles Richmond said: > > > > > And if you are lucky, the carpenter, plumber, and > > > electrician will *not* be unionized... > > > > Somehow, I don't think I could trust an ionized electrician. > > > Well, ionized is *better* than onionized...because onionized > electricians smell awful!!! Of course, either way, they can > make you cry...when you get the *bill*!!! I hope you're not implicating Lynn Wheeler (@garlic) in this :-) -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: lysse Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <997770755snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lb3bo$llh$11@bob.news.rcn.net> <1bg0auitu4.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9ldqj9$391$4@bob.news.rcn.net> Organization: http://lysse.co.uk Reply-To: lysse.news@blueyonder.co.uk User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980226 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.39 (i486)) Message-ID: Lines: 12 Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 03:08:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.31.8.160 X-Complaints-To: http://www.blueyonder.co.uk/abuse X-Trace: news1.cableinet.net 998017697 62.31.8.160 (Fri, 17 Aug 2001 04:08:17 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 04:08:17 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed1.news.be.easynet.net!easynet-quince!easynet.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!internal-news-hub.cableinet.net!news1.cableinet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87704 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: : No. He was two guys ;-). There are a couple of exceptions. : I was thinking about authors who are still producing books. : The Brits still try to write with words that have more than : 5 letters to them. This Brit has rather a thing for Sara Paretsky. What do you think? -- lysse at lysse dot co dot uk "Why are your problems always so much bigger than everyone else's?" "Because they're mine." -- Ally McBeal ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9les6t$7sc$1@top.mitre.org> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 28 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 03:11:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.174.226.176 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 998017879 199.174.226.176 (Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:11:19 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:11:19 PDT X-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:08:07 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87697 jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: > ...you know what a 5081 was. (Hint: it's not a vacuum tube, and it's > not a model number of a computer or peripheral. Almost every DP > professional of the time has seen the results of its use, but > it would have been very rare for one to be found even in the largest > of computer shops.) and for something completely different ... there was a 5081 "megapel" display for the pc/rt. We managed to get a pc/rt with a 5081 into somebody's booth (not ibm) at Interop '88 running a demo copy of case's snmp. trivia question: what was causing the floor nets to crash & burn until the wee hrs of the morning before the start of the show? misc 5081 ref: http://www.devo.com/video/5081/index.html random interop '88 refs http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#34 Failover and MAC addresses (was: Re: Dual-p http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#36 Failover and MAC addresses (was: Re: Dual-p http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#40 [netz] History and vision for the future of Internet - Public Question http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#5 Is Al Gore The Father of the Internet?^ http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#28 Is Al Gore The Father of the Internet?^ -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### Message-ID: <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> From: Brian Huntley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <9l8omt$721$1@top.mitre.org> <997728751snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 29 Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 03:44:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.114.133.61 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news3.rdc1.on.home.com 998019884 24.114.133.61 (Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:44:44 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:44:44 PDT Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news3.rdc1.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87744 David Scheidt wrote: > Castell make interlock saftey switches, and such things. They're used to > protect high-voltage cabinets, and machines. Typically, to open the hatch, > you need to remove the key from the power keyswitch, which means you turn > power off, and use the same key to open the lock on the panel/hatch. The > key is trapped in that lock until the panel is closed, and locked. I've > never seen such a system on a computer. I have seen them on power > distribution points and such in machine rooms. There's a device used for power (AC) systems called a mutlilock that allows multiple padlocks to be used to secure a switch. You can't throw the switch until all the padlocks have been removed, so each workman can have his own, and be relatively safe from accidental voltages - or so you'd think. I used to do stage lighting for an amateur theatre company (about the same time I was a projectionist and NCR hacker.) One Saturday morning, I was in early and up a scaffold working on a troublesome spotlight, with the main fuses hanging off my belt and my multilock and padlock securing the main switch, when *another* volunteer came in, got the spare fuses out of the parts cabinet, levered off the multilock, and powered up the panel. The first I knew of this was when I welded a screwdriver across a pair of contacts. Foolproof devices never work - fools are too ingenious. ###### Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 Organization: I do not speak for anyone but myself, and barely that. References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> From: dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <7avil9.q9e.ln@127.0.0.1> Lines: 40 Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:31:19 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.240.131 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 998048078 62.255.240.131 (Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:34:38 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:34:38 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87730 In article , rsteiner@isis.visi.com (Richard C. Steiner) writes: >>I'm not sure what you're referring to as "calculated GOTO" unless it's some >>other word to refer to the same statement. Or maybe that's an assigned GOTO, >>which isn't in either of these two manuals that I'm aware of, but seems to be >>in FORTRAN 77 (ANSI FORTRAN-extended). In 21 years of programming in FORTRAN, >>14 of them in the field, I've -never- seen a need for the ASSIGNed GOTO. It >>appears to have been deleted from F95, and is no loss to the world IMHO. > > As an aside, the Assigned GOTO statement is supported by the Sperry UNIVAC > FIELDATA FORTRAN V compiler (Pre-FORTRAN 77). People seem to have used it > a lot to set up return points from error routines and such by storing line > numbers in a switch variable, e.g.: [...] Isn't this just the same as gcc's assignable labels? { void* ptr; label: ptr = &&label; goto *ptr; } ... { static void* array[] = {&&label1, &&label2, &&label3}; goto *array[i]; } Interesting that Fortran has dropped it from the standard, while gcc thinks it's useful enough to implement as an extension... -- +- David Given --------McQ-+ "[One shot of the Death Star's superlaser has | Work: dg@tao-group.com | enough power] to send Marty McFly to the Big Bang | Play: dg@cowlark.com | and back 1.4x10^29 times." --- William Clifford +- http://www.cowlark.com -+ ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 17 Aug 2001 14:28:45 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 11 Message-ID: <9lj9mt$nem$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9les6t$7sc$1@top.mitre.org> <4rr7ikdf.fsf@cfl.rr.com> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 998058525 24022 128.29.251.13 (17 Aug 2001 14:28:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Aug 2001 14:28:45 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87673 gcash writes: >jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: >> ...you know what a 5081 was. >IBM Form #5081, AKA punch cards.... You're very close, but no seegar. Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 17 Aug 2001 14:37:32 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 30 Message-ID: <9lja7c$nlg$1@top.mitre.org> References: <9l8omt$721$1@top.mitre.org> <997728751snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 998059052 24240 128.29.251.13 (17 Aug 2001 14:37:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Aug 2001 14:37:32 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87670 Brian Huntley writes: >There's a device used for power (AC) systems called a mutlilock that allows >multiple padlocks to be used to secure a switch. You can't throw the switch >until all the padlocks have been removed, so each workman can have his own, and >be relatively safe from accidental voltages - or so you'd think. The common name for this is a "lockout". >I used to do stage lighting for an amateur theatre company (about the same time >I was a projectionist and NCR hacker.) One Saturday morning, I was in early >and up a scaffold working on a troublesome spotlight, with the main fuses >hanging off my belt and my multilock and padlock securing the main switch, when >*another* volunteer came in, got the spare fuses out of the parts cabinet, >levered off the multilock, and powered up the panel. >The first I knew of this was when I welded a screwdriver across a pair of >contacts. In high school and college I was the lighting manager for several productions, and would have been rather irritated had the facility where we were staging the shows demanded that its professional electricians be given all the work. Nevertheless, it's idiots like the "other volunteer" you cite who sometimes make such a policy necessary. (OTOH, I recall doing one G&S presentation in a Shriners' temple, where the dimmers were in such poor shape that they threw off sparks whenever you moved the handle...) Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 17 Aug 2001 14:39:37 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 28 Message-ID: <9ljab9$nln$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9les6t$7sc$1@top.mitre.org> <4rr7ikdf.fsf@cfl.rr.com> <902.628T192T12963541@nowhere.in.particular> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 998059177 24247 128.29.251.13 (17 Aug 2001 14:39:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Aug 2001 14:39:37 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87671 "Charlie Gibbs" writes: >In article <4rr7ikdf.fsf@cfl.rr.com> gcash@cfl.rr.SPAMM.com (gcash) >writes: >>jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: >>> ...you know what a 5081 was. >>IBM Form #5081, AKA punch cards.... >>I think... but my copy of "IBM Electronic Data Processing Machine >>Operation" is at work, and it's the only one that actually gives that >>number. >Close, but no cigar. 5081 is not the card itself, but the pattern >printed on it (80 columns of numbers 0 through 9, with rows 11 and >12 left blank). It's the "electro number", which I presume refers >to some sort of electroplating process used to make the printing >plate. Cards printed with different patterns have different >electro numbers identifying them. Colour, being a characteristic >of the card stock, doesn't enter into it; I have 5081s in all sorts >of colours. Yup. Seegar goes to you, although I would appreciate it if you don't smoke it anywhere near where I happen to be at the time... Joe ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <998010297snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 26 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:50:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.174.226.113 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 998067030 199.174.226.113 (Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:50:30 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:50:30 PDT X-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:47:16 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87691 bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) writes: > I hope you're not implicating Lynn Wheeler (@garlic) in this :-) what!!! somebody casting aspersion on garlic!!! i moved to south san jose in late '70s and started experiencing walking out in the morning being hit in the face with the wind blowing up valley from gilroy (garlic fields, the garlic capital of the world). the ecology of the bay has hills/mountains on both sides and the gap at golden gate bridge. as the south valley heats up during the day, the air rises and creates a vacumm effect that results in pulling a lot of air thru the golden gate (wind blowing down valley south). This tends to keep san fran cool ... since the hotter it is, the faster that air tends to be pulled thru the golden gate. during the night the land cools off faster than the bay ... so in the morning the air over the bay is rising ... and pulling air from south valley north (over the garlic fields). you walk out in the morning and you are immediately hit in the face with the wind blowing up valley from the garlic fields. -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:16:57 GMT Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net Message-ID: <3b7c720b.87285791@news.shuswap.net> References: <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3B75983E.5F0FF29@ev1.net> <9l8l3i$5sr$1@top.mitre.org> <3b78268d.170597736@news.shuswap.net> <2330.625T671T13773588@nowhere.in.particular> <997778771snz@dsl.co.uk> <09djntglp2mfa9iam8dsgst9v04vvj4g8g@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm3-39.shuswap.net X-Trace: 17 Aug 2001 10:33:27 -0700, salmonarm3-39.shuswap.net Lines: 42 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-ber1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!news.bnb-lp.com!nubby2.!salmonarm3-39.shuswap.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87698 ic0cdfw00@ic24.net wrote: >On 14 Aug 2001 12:39:26 -1000, Jim Thomas >wrote: > >>>>>>> "Brian" == Brian {Hamilton Kelly} writes: >> >> Brian> In article <2330.625T671T13773588@nowhere.in.particular> >> Brian> cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular "Charlie Gibbs" writes: >> >> >> In article <3b78268d.170597736@news.shuswap.net> genew@shuswap.net >> >> (Gene Wirchenko) writes: >> >> >> >> >jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >> >> >> >> >[snip] >> >> >> >> >>...which makes me recall another candidate for the YKYGOW list: >> >> >> >> >> >>You remember edge-coated punched cards. >> >> > >> >> > Unh! Got me! [snip] >Now to edge coated cards. AFAIR these were some coating on cards which >were going to be pushed time after time through card feeding machinery. >Why would that be? Oops! Missed after all. I was thinking of card with a stripe of colour along the top, just colour not any special coating. [snip] Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: "Jose Pina Coelho" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B77F773.1C8AD2B1@yahoo.com> <9lb2fc$llh$7@bob.news.rcn.net> Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Lines: 27 Organization: What ??? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2479.0006 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:37:50 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.23.169.122 X-Trace: newsserver.ip.pt 998069969 195.23.169.122 (Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:39:29 WEST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:39:29 WEST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newshub.ip.pt!newsserver.ip.pt.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87714 wrote in message news:9lb2fc$llh$7@bob.news.rcn.net... > [...] > NEAT!!!! I keep discovering that those carpenter guys have > thought of everything. However, I've found that to buy one > I need a magic incantation. It's terribly embarrassing to > ask for a device with a description of its use and have a blank > stare for an answer. The hardware store types who don't like > females invading their territory require the correct lingo. Or it could be that a lot of them are incompetent wanks that don't know the product they are selling. I get that same blank - "please input the numeric part number" - stare and I'm a guy. :-) Competence is seriously lacking in a lot of stores. And yes, a lot of tools you find a need for have already been invented by the "other people" and you only find them out by accident. -- Doing AIX support was the most monty-pythonesque activity available at the time. ###### From: rsteiner@isis.visi.com (Richard C. Steiner) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> <7avil9.q9e.ln@127.0.0.1> Organization: Vector Internet Services, Inc. Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Lines: 24 Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:14:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.98.98.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@visi.com X-Trace: ruti.visi.com 998072080 209.98.98.8 (Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:14:40 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:14:40 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!ruti.visi.com!rsteiner Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87727 In article <7avil9.q9e.ln@127.0.0.1>, David Given wrote: > rsteiner@isis.visi.com (Richard C. Steiner) writes: > >> As an aside, the Assigned GOTO statement is supported by the Sperry UNIVAC >> FIELDATA FORTRAN V compiler (Pre-FORTRAN 77). People seem to have used it >> a lot to set up return points from error routines and such by storing line >> numbers in a switch variable, e.g.: > >Isn't this just the same as gcc's assignable labels? > > [Interesting example snipped] Yes, it certainly seems to have been a similar concept. >Interesting that Fortran has dropped it from the standard, while gcc >thinks it's useful enough to implement as an extension... Different strokes for different folks and all that... :-) -- -Rich Steiner >>>---> rsteiner@visi.com >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN Written online using slrn 0.9.5.4! The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 17 Aug 2001 20:02:39 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9ljt8v$2kd$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <998010297snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 998078559 2701 134.117.136.30 (17 Aug 2001 20:02:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Aug 2001 20:02:39 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.online.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87707 Anne & Lynn Wheeler (lynn@garlic.com) writes: > bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) writes: > >> I hope you're not implicating Lynn Wheeler (@garlic) in this :-) > > what!!! somebody casting aspersion on garlic!!! > > i moved to south san jose in late '70s and started experiencing > walking out in the morning being hit in the face with the wind blowing > up valley from gilroy (garlic fields, the garlic capital of the > world). For some reason, (possibly a cooking show on TVO, that's Television Ontario), I knew this. I've often thought that monoculture isn't a good idea. So, how about posting your best garlic recipes here - this is a.f.c. after all. Speaking of model 195's - about the time that the largest IBM iron in Canada was the 2 meg 85, --> IIRC <-- McDonell-Douglas (sp?) put up six, yes VI, of those suckers for sale! That must have been 1/4 of the total computing power on earth at that time. Perhaps a juicy NASA or air force deal fell through. ###### From: dscheidt@tumbolia.com (David Scheidt) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 17 Aug 2001 21:48:34 GMT Lines: 31 Sender: David Scheidt Message-ID: <9lk3fi$62n$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B77F773.1C8AD2B1@yahoo.com> <9lb2fc$llh$7@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZfFcJu5KqvdlA0z3oDY+StnT/1B8YEmUAy/XApLZuRFe16NTP5KYWI X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Aug 2001 21:48:34 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87675 Jose Pina Coelho wrote: : wrote in message news:9lb2fc$llh$7@bob.news.rcn.net... :> [...] :> NEAT!!!! I keep discovering that those carpenter guys have :> thought of everything. However, I've found that to buy one :> I need a magic incantation. It's terribly embarrassing to :> ask for a device with a description of its use and have a blank :> stare for an answer. The hardware store types who don't like :> females invading their territory require the correct lingo. : Or it could be that a lot of them are incompetent wanks that : don't know the product they are selling. I get that same : blank - "please input the numeric part number" - stare and : I'm a guy. :-) I had a lovely hardware store experience today. We needed a woodruf key for a VW Bug generator. (A woodruf key is a half moon shaped thing that keeps something from spining on a shaft.) We walked into the store carrying the genny, and were immediatly intercepted by an employee who said "Uhoh, what do we need?" I explained we needed a "little half moon key thingee." He led us to the back where the random bits of hardware are, and found us the one we needed. Hardware stores are worth looking around for the best, as there's a lot of variation in them, the bad ones are awful, the good ones are quite good. If you find an employee that's knowledgable and helpful, go back there, and tell the managment about that guy. -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ###### From: ic0cdfw00@ic24.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 01:46:10 +0100 Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9les6t$7sc$1@top.mitre.org> <4rr7ikdf.fsf@cfl.rr.com> <902.628T192T12963541@nowhere.in.particular> <9ljab9$nln$1@top.mitre.org> Reply-To: tony.lenton@physics.org NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-34-22.dialup.lineone.co.uk (213.123.34.22) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 998095737 10398315 213.123.34.22 (16 [88156]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!host213-123-34-22.dialup.lineone.co.UK!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87738 On 17 Aug 2001 14:39:37 GMT, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >"Charlie Gibbs" writes: > >>In article <4rr7ikdf.fsf@cfl.rr.com> gcash@cfl.rr.SPAMM.com (gcash) >>writes: > >>>jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: > >>>> ...you know what a 5081 was. > >>>IBM Form #5081, AKA punch cards.... > >>>I think... but my copy of "IBM Electronic Data Processing Machine >>>Operation" is at work, and it's the only one that actually gives that >>>number. > >>Close, but no cigar. 5081 is not the card itself, but the pattern >>printed on it (80 columns of numbers 0 through 9, with rows 11 and >>12 left blank). It's the "electro number", which I presume refers >>to some sort of electroplating process used to make the printing >>plate. Cards printed with different patterns have different >>electro numbers identifying them. Colour, being a characteristic >>of the card stock, doesn't enter into it; I have 5081s in all sorts >>of colours. > >Yup. Seegar goes to you, although I would appreciate it if you >don't smoke it anywhere near where I happen to be at the time... > Hmmm, still with IBM numbers, anyone want to have a go at a 202? -- aml ###### From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW.... Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:16:49 -0400 Organization: As little as possible! Lines: 20 Message-ID: <3B7DC201.29E06F61@rcsri.org> References: <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com> <20010811095537.50100c4e.steveo@eircom.net> <9lb3gn$llh$12@bob.news.rcn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVah55pWyKnRrqNZlsgd9mhzNya7GldjjqA540qm8xhLTnWJb4tUIiBv X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Aug 2001 01:16:44 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.4.2 i586) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87653 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > Chuckle. I sure do remember some of you guys looking through > the plastic seemingly reading the code you all just changed. > Although....maybe you were just sleeping with your eyes open. With the noise coming from under the shroud, somehow I doubt that they were asleep. Those printers were _loud_! What was especially vexing was when they needed adjustment and they were run with the covers up. "Hearing restoration breaks" were pretty much required every five minutes or so so one could hear their own thoughts.... -- +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com +---------------------+ | http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: 42:22N 71:47W | +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 18 Aug 2001 19:26:31 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 8 Message-ID: <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <998010297snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 998162791 23531 128.29.251.13 (18 Aug 2001 19:26:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Aug 2001 19:26:31 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87755 Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes: >you walk out in the morning and you are immediately hit in the face >with the wind blowing up valley from the garlic fields. Must be rough on vampires in the Bay area... Joe Morris ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <998010297snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:00:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.174.225.248 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 998164838 199.174.225.248 (Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:00:38 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:00:38 PDT X-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 12:57:58 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87763 jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: > > Must be rough on vampires in the Bay area... > > Joe Morris it isn't too bad as you move north/up valley ... but from the ibm plant site (say from cottle rd) south it can be really strong. -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: dscheidt@tumbolia.com (David Scheidt) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW.... Date: 18 Aug 2001 11:35:40 GMT Lines: 19 Sender: David Scheidt Message-ID: <9lljuc$5o0$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com> <20010811095537.50100c4e.steveo@eircom.net> <9lb3gn$llh$12@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7DC201.29E06F61@rcsri.org> <9llib5$nbq$4@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYXxA/gLga80/D84D2eYpYkBhIoOrGdGXoHt5owLBSM5Uth+5ynPMdZ X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Aug 2001 11:35:40 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87759 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: : Yup. I tended to stay out of the machine room when field service : had to work on a printer using its self-test. Once upon a time, : there was a weather forecast for a hurricane. In preparation for : this weather, everything (but the A/Cs) were powered down and : turned off. I got up at 2AM to watch the hurricane (I'd never : seen one before and was curious...and foolish). The weathermen : had cancelled the hurricane so I just went into work. JMF and : TW were there and we walked through the _quiet_ machine room. : I'd never experienced anything as spooky. It was also a frigid : machine room. Quiet machine rooms are disturbing. Particularly when everything stops all at once. Billion whirring fans stopping all at once makes a lot of noise! -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW.... Date: 18 Aug 2001 19:32:22 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9lmfs6$n0n$1@top.mitre.org> References: <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com> <20010811095537.50100c4e.steveo@eircom.net> <9lb3gn$llh$12@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7DC201.29E06F61@rcsri.org> <9llib5$nbq$4@bob.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 998163142 23575 128.29.251.13 (18 Aug 2001 19:32:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Aug 2001 19:32:22 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87754 jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > Once upon a time, >there was a weather forecast for a hurricane. In preparation for >this weather, everything (but the A/Cs) were powered down and >turned off. I got up at 2AM to watch the hurricane (I'd never >seen one before and was curious...and foolish). The weathermen >had cancelled the hurricane so I just went into work. JMF and >TW were there and we walked through the _quiet_ machine room. >I'd never experienced anything as spooky. It was also a frigid >machine room. I think it may have been in a.f.c that I posted a while back a story of how an incompetent fire-alarm technician managed to trip the scram switch for my computer room. It's amazing how *loud* the silence is, especially when you don't expect it. Joe Morris ###### From: "Jose Pina Coelho" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <9l8omt$721$1@top.mitre.org> <997728751snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Lines: 22 Organization: What ??? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2479.0006 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:54:37 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.23.171.186 X-Trace: newsserver.ip.pt 998175152 195.23.171.186 (Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:52:32 WEST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 23:52:32 WEST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newshub.ip.pt!newsserver.ip.pt.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87828 "Brian Huntley" wrote in message news:3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com... > [...] > I used to do stage lighting for an amateur theatre company (about the same time > I was a projectionist and NCR hacker.) One Saturday morning, I was in early > and up a scaffold working on a troublesome spotlight, with the main fuses > hanging off my belt and my multilock and padlock securing the main switch, when > *another* volunteer came in, got the spare fuses out of the parts cabinet, > levered off the multilock, and powered up the panel. Is said volunteer still alive ? -- Doing AIX support was the most monty-pythonesque activity available at the time. ###### From: Ariel Scolnicov Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 19 Aug 2001 14:54:31 +0300 Organization: Compugen, Ltd. Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b6acd1f.477012677@enews.newsguy.com> <9l29n9$g1m$1@saltmine.radix.net> <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <9l8g5q$dgr$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lbadi$b65$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> <20010816084720.45ecabcd.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: chile.compugen.co.il Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: news.netvision.net.il 998222072 11085 194.90.227.155 (19 Aug 2001 11:54:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@netvision.net.il NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Aug 2001 11:54:32 GMT X-Face: $P@~Uo%A@9-de@cs*![93o2GevYUVSD)EKWy-H-?zxx"@Y@/?Uqp%kHl+.v 0p1k-9#}8l`NMpS)=zG64tpEG&!cpc|EW`BL8_d#=7#m~xS!0Z\}nW+:!fSL u]3nc$+h.+J@i(sFCcbS00hu$}PVx$%Mc9~+H^&2C$ User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Acadia) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!news-feed.netvision.net.il!194.90.1.15.MISMATCH!news!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87834 Steve O'Hara-Smith writes: > On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:23:07 -0700 > Charles Richmond wrote: > > CR> Evidently so...but can anyone explain the difference between "computed GOTO" > CR> and "calculated GOTO"...these both are "case" type statements, but IIRC, > CR> they *are* different... > > Calculated GOTO, IIRC that be where the line number of the target > is in an expression, whereas with computed goto the expression is an index > into a fixed list of line numbers. The calculated GOTO I only ever saw in > some BASIC dialects, powerful, compact and nearly impossible to debug when > it goes wrong, especially if the line didn't exist, at least one would > happily and silently, GOTO the next line! From `perldoc -f goto': The C form expects a label name, whose scope will be resolved dynamically. This allows for computed Cs per FORTRAN, but isn't necessarily recommended if you're optimizing for maintainability: goto ("FOO", "BAR", "GLARCH")[$i]; No, I've not seen any Perl code use this feature. -- Ariel Scolnicov ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9les6t$7sc$1@top.mitre.org> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 87 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:21:49 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.174.226.132 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 998234509 199.174.226.132 (Sun, 19 Aug 2001 08:21:49 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 08:21:49 PDT X-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 08:18:32 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87810 Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes: > We managed to get a pc/rt with a 5081 into somebody's booth (not ibm) > at Interop '88 running a demo copy of case's snmp. trivia question: > what was causing the floor nets to crash & burn until the wee hrs of > the morning before the start of the show? besides the problem with the floor nets crashing & burning ... there were still the network management (as well as gosip) wars going on ... and case having a demonstratable snmp at interop '88 (in several booths) appeared to turn the tide. After that snmp really picked up momentum. misc. refs (from old usenet postings): From: OLE@CSLI.STANFORD.EDU (Ole J. Jacobsen) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip Subject: INTEROP 88: 3rd TCP/IP Conference and Exhibition Message-ID: <585858698.0.OLE@CSLI.Stanford.EDU> Date: 25 Jul 88 18:31:38 GMT Date-Received: 28 Jul 88 06:57:52 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The Internet INTEROP 88: The 3rd TCP/IP Interoperability Conference and Exhibition will be held at the Santa Clara Convention Center and Doubletree Hotel from September 26 through 30th, 1988. The format is 2 days of tutorials followed by 3 days of technical session (16 in all). For the first time, there will also be an Interoperability exhibition where vendors will show TCP/IP systems on a "Show and Tel-Net" which additionally will be connected to the Internet. A number of vendors, known as the "Netman" group will be demonstrating an experimental network management system based on the ISO CMIP/CMIS protocols. For more information on the conference contact: Advanced Computing Environments 480 San Antonio Road, Suite 100 Mountain View, CA 94040 (415) 941-3399 ------- & an extract in rfc 2441 The Internet protocols (mainly IP, TCP, UDP, FTP, Telnet, FTP, and even SNMP) were defined and documented in their RFCs. DoD adopted them and announced a date by which all of DoD units would have to use TCP/IP. They even translated RFC791 from Jon's English to proper Militarese. However, all the other countries (i.e., their governments and PTTs) in the world joined the ISO wagon, the X.25 based suite of OSI protocols. The US government joined them and defined GOSIP. All the large computer companies (from IBM and DEC down) announced their future plans to join the GOSIP bandwagon. DoD totally capitulated and denounced the "DoD unique protocols" and was seeking ways to forget all about them, spending million of dollars on GOSIP and X.500. Against them, on the Internet side, there was a very small group of young Davids. The OSI camp had its prestige, but we had working systems, a large community of devotees, and properly documented protocols that allowed integration of the TCP/IP suite into every UNIX system, such as in every SUN workstation. Against the strict laws in Europe, their universities developed an underground of Internet connections. One could get from California to the university in Rome, for example, for example, by going first over the Internet across the US to the east coast, then to the UK, then using some private lines to France, then to CERN in Switzerland, and from there to Rome - while breaking the laws of all those countries with every packet. Meanwhile, in the states, Academia, and the research communities, never knew about GOSIP. The Internet, against all the conventional wisdom, grew without anyone being in charge, without central control, and without any central planning. The war between the ISO and the TCP/IP camps never took place. One camp turned out to be a no show. -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9les6t$7sc$1@top.mitre.org> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 98 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:34:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.174.226.132 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 998238879 199.174.226.132 (Sun, 19 Aug 2001 09:34:39 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 09:34:39 PDT X-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 09:31:58 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87811 Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes: > besides the problem with the floor nets crashing & burning ... there > were still the network management (as well as gosip) wars going on > ... and case having a demonstratable snmp at interop '88 (in several > booths) appeared to turn the tide. After that snmp really picked up > momentum. took another year for snmp to get to equal footing ... From: dcrocker@AHWAHNEE.STANFORD.EDU (Dave Crocker) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip Subject: Re: DoD --> CMOT and SNMP Date: 2 Sep 89 04:40:26 GMT Organization: The Internet (Sorry. I intended to send this to the entire list. DHC) From dcrocker Fri Sep 1 21:28:53 1989 From: Dave Crocker Subject: Re: DoD --> CMOT and SNMP To: mcsun!cernvax!cgch!wasc@uunet.uu.net The Internet Activities Board has declared SNMP and CMOT to be co-equal standards. If effect, this means that they both have a stamp of approval from a significant "standards" body. (For the TCP/IP technology, the IAB fills the kind of role that ISO and CCITT and ECMA do in various parts of international communities. So much for the stamp of approval. Your question is more to the point and asks about actual support by vendors. (A nicely practical point to have concern for.) A number of companies are currently shipping products that use SNMP. Further, the NSFNet is managed using it. It is my impression that virtually all TCP/IP vendors have announced intent to support SNMP, if they are not already doing so. SNMP is unique to the TCP/IP community, although it uses the OSI ASN.1 encoding standard, for specifying the format of objects. CMOT is derived from the OSI CMOT standards effort, although I am told there are some differences. It is not clear to me that these differences are in the management protocol, itself, it does run over a modified stack of support protocols. Most significantly, is uses TCP or, perhaps, UDP, instead of an OSI transport. Hence, CMOT gets you closer to the future of OSI network management protocol details. However, there does not appear to be any vendor that currently ships CMOT and, therefore, there is no field (production network) experience using it. While a number of vendors have announced plans to support CMOT, I am not aware of any official, announced, delivery dates from these vendors. A further point about the recent decision to make SNMP and CMOT co-equal standards is that their use of the Management Information Base (MIB) was entirely de-coupled. While one should expect them to continue to use the original 100 variable, there having additional variable in common is problematic. At the least, such sharing should be expected to organic or accidental, rather than formally enforced. (That should be "expected to be organic..." I am on a thin wire with a poor editor.) As always, I trust that others will elaborate on, as well as correct, the above. Dive in! Dave Crocker Digital Equipment Corp. P.S. On review, I note that I did not respond to your query about federal requirements for CMOT support: There is strong governmental pressure for moving to OSI. This is embodied in the GOSIP document. In general, however, the requirements are careful to allow use of alternatives. Perhaps the most extreme way of viewing this is that a vendor certainly cannot consider ignoring the OSI CMOT. I am less clear about their ability to dodge CMOT (but am sure that someone out there in tcp-land will chime in to clarify, please?) Enough vendors have stated intent to support CMOT and enough are working on it, that I would expect it to start showing up in the future. P.P.S. I should use this opportunity to suggest a personal bias. It is NOT about which protocol I prefer. In fact, the brouhaha has, in my opinion, distracted us from worrying about how to manage multi-administration inter-networks. The chosen protocol is not irrelevant to this, but my suspicion is that we could start with a hopelessly incomplete one and still not know how to use it to its fullest. That is, our general understanding and pursuit of specifying and developing management (application) SERVICES has been quite limited and that we would do well to focus on MIB enhancement and specification of standard applications for management. (I.e., focus on the bottom and top of the management architecture.) D/ -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### Message-ID: <3B800D5C.3C78A19B@home.com> From: Brian Huntley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <9l8omt$721$1@top.mitre.org> <997728751snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 9 Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 18:56:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.114.133.61 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news3.rdc1.on.home.com 998247385 24.114.133.61 (Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:56:25 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:56:25 PDT Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news3.rdc1.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87855 Jose Pina Coelho wrote: > Is said volunteer still alive ? > Yes, he is, shockingly. ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:33:27 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <998260407snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B800D5C.3C78A19B@home.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 998264595 mail2news:11484 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 18 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!nerim.net!grolier!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87851 In article <3B800D5C.3C78A19B@home.com> bphuntley@home.com "Brian Huntley" writes: > Jose Pina Coelho wrote: > > > Is said volunteer still alive ? > > > > Yes, he is, shockingly. Said Tom, Swift[l]y. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### Message-ID: <3B808989.3374EC64@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <9l8omt$721$1@top.mitre.org> <997728751snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <3B800D5C.3C78A19B@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 01:54:51 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.179.111.125 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc2.tx.home.com 998272491 24.179.111.125 (Sun, 19 Aug 2001 18:54:51 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 18:54:51 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc2.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87843 Brian Huntley wrote: > > Jose Pina Coelho wrote: > > > Is said volunteer still alive ? > > > > Yes, he is, shockingly. > Good news: He *is* alive.... Bad news: He glows in the dark... (Just a joke...) -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: john.cc@nospam.europlacer.co.uk (John Carlyle-Clarke) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:13:38 +0000 Organization: Europlacer Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b1ymir53m.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l63r0$cfk$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b7kw88ro2.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9l8gi2$dgr$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B77F773.1C8AD2B1@yahoo.com> <9lb2fc$llh$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lk3fi$62n$1@bob.news.rcn.net> User-Agent: Xnews/4.01.30 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 40 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-uk-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.co.uk!pc69.comconnect!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87856 dscheidt@tumbolia.com (David Scheidt) wrote in <9lk3fi$62n$1@bob.news.rcn.net>: >Jose Pina Coelho wrote: >: wrote in message >: :> [...] >:> NEAT!!!! I keep discovering that those carpenter guys have >:> thought of everything. However, I've found that to buy one >:> I need a magic incantation. It's terribly embarrassing to >:> ask for a device with a description of its use and have a blank >:> stare for an answer. The hardware store types who don't like >:> females invading their territory require the correct lingo. > >: Or it could be that a lot of them are incompetent wanks that >: don't know the product they are selling. I get that same >: blank - "please input the numeric part number" - stare and >: I'm a guy. :-) > >I had a lovely hardware store experience today. We needed a woodruf key >for a VW Bug generator. (A woodruf key is a half moon shaped thing that >keeps something from spining on a shaft.) We walked into the store >carrying the genny, and were immediatly intercepted by an employee who >said "Uhoh, what do we need?" I explained we needed a "little half moon >key thingee." He led us to the back where the random bits of hardware >are, and found us the one we needed. Hardware stores are worth looking >around for the best, as there's a lot of variation in them, the bad ones >are awful, the good ones are quite good. If you find an employee that's >knowledgable and helpful, go back there, and tell the managment about >that guy. In the UK at least the best thing to do is to avoid anywhere like B&Q, Homebase, Do-it-all etc. (i.e. stores aimed at the home DIY'er). Instead, it is much better to visit trade outlets on industrial estates or business parks. I have discovered that not only are these places cheaper and much better stocked, they are also less busy and furthermore the staff there are usually very knowledgeable and very helpful and patient with idiots like me who say things like, "OK, I need one of those thingys. Can you tell me the best one? What else do you think I'll need?". None of these things are true in B&Q. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Lee Ayrton Subject: Re: YKYGOW... In-Reply-To: <30jcntg0pqpo6pr4crj893j0vqcua2dbbi@4ax.com> Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <30jcntg0pqpo6pr4crj893j0vqcua2dbbi@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: 8s6ucBTEY9IZs4wsZrP/tNUM/1KcsvhfuRxjXmOj X-Trace: WXELRyM4dDAMZI0UEaTN+LDmZs1g1hTcjUevRM9MKTVqKp3sYBsMIJTLVpty3SezSadQ+ZmyzRH4!VdnxFSL8XgFD6BwsqARI+Uz8gtfSgY++4Xh+ZN31ZYNV67sFCS8AmlPLgib6maFkNWtPBYfTxgek!a/wd/F5qOcko X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@thebiz.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers to X-Abuse-Info: news-abuse@thebiz.net, otherwise we will be unable X-Abuse-Info: to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:00:31 EDT Organization: BiznessOnline.com, Inc. Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:00:41 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newsfeed1.thebiz.net!comet.connix.com!layrton Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87861 On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, D.J. wrote: > nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) wrote: > []Enlighten this leftponder please: Vice-grip and wrench I can cope with - but > []duct tape...is it the fabric based 2" silver or black tape with a glue so > []strong it sticks to just about anything (to itself, permananently!) which > []the film and TV industry calls 'gaffer tape'? (not to be confused with > []camera tape) > > gaffer tape and duct tape are 2 different things. According to some > theatrical stage techs I know. I work in the motion picture/television industry, so I use gaffer's tape daily. It is a tape with a strong, close-weave cloth backing that can be easily torn along either axis. The mastic is more stabile in temperature extremes than duct tape and will not leave a mastic residue. It is designed to *almost* never remove paint or wall paper from surfaces in good condition. It is available in a variety of colors but the most often used flavors are 2" black and 1" white. The former is for sticking things together, the latter for labeling. A roll of good quality 2" gaffer's tape will cost you about $35US retail. ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 20 Aug 2001 11:33:40 -0400 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 13 Message-ID: <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 998321620 9188 166.84.1.3 (20 Aug 2001 15:33:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Aug 2001 15:33:40 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!panix!news.panix.com!panix3.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87809 >I was wondering what the left-pondians call a "Yankee" screwdriver >see: http://www.toolfast.co.uk/styrhd28.html for picture They're called Yankee here too. I think that's the name of the mfgr. Electric power screwdrivers have *mostly* replaced them. I never found them to give enough driving power for screws, but as drills for pilot holes in wood they're the best! -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 20 Aug 2001 15:39:36 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 12 Message-ID: <9lravo$9tj$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9les6t$7sc$1@top.mitre.org> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 998321976 10163 128.29.251.13 (20 Aug 2001 15:39:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Aug 2001 15:39:36 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87793 Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes: >Meanwhile, in the states, Academia, and the research communities, >never knew about GOSIP. >The Internet, against all the conventional wisdom, grew without >anyone being in charge, without central control, and without any >central planning. Sounds like a history of VNET as well, no? Joe Morris ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 20 Aug 2001 11:56:10 -0400 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 66 Message-ID: <9lrbuq$1vg$1@panix3.panix.com> References: <3B775F30.4BCE3757@ev1.net> <3B7B66CB.A63DBF4F@ev1.net> <921.627T655T13554080@nowhere.in.particular> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 998322970 12221 166.84.1.3 (20 Aug 2001 15:56:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Aug 2001 15:56:10 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!feed1.newsreader.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!news.gtei.net.MISMATCH!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!panix!news.panix.com!panix3.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87807 >>Evidently so...but can anyone explain the difference between "computed >>GOTO" and "calculated GOTO"...these both are "case" type statements, >>but IIRC, they *are* different... >I've never heard of a "calculated GOTO". Are you perhaps thinking >of the "assigned GOTO"? I only used it once, gratuitously: > > INTEGER HELL > > ASSIGN 40 TO HELL > GOTO HELL,(10,20,30,40) > >I just wanted the opportunity to tell the machine to go to hell. I think you're confusing assign and computed go-to. FORTRAN COULD a) GOTO 10 b) ASSIGN 40 TO HELL GOTO HELL (no need to tell it what lines were available) c) GOTO (10,100,200,300),i went to 10 for i=1 (or was that 0?), 100 for i=1, 200 for i=2, ... even worse: there was some way to give line numbers to subroutines for it to return to alternate points I *think* it looked like CALL RETURNANYWHERE (arg1, arg2, &100, &200, &300) ... SUBROUTINE RETURNANYWHERE (arg1, arg2, *, *, *) RETURN 3 C RETURN TO THE ADDRESS IN THE 3RD ARG, NOT TO THE CALLING POINT! (see http://www-sld.slac.stanford.edu/HELP/FORTRAN/STATEMENTS/RETURN) In the same syntax as a common block or namelist, WATFIV and others offered a DUMPLIST: a list of variables to dump upon ABEND. I remember doing something like: DUMPLIST/OHSHIT/I,J,K,INDEX so it would say "oh shit" automatically upon any run-time error! see: http://ftp.cac.psu.edu/pub/doc/vm-cms/Penn_State_Guide_to_ForTran hmmm: I'm confused now, that shows GO TO (s1,s2,...),ivar Computed GO TO X X X ASSIGN s to ivar For assigned GO TO X X X GO TO ivar, (s1,s2,...) Assigned GO TO X X X GO TO s X X X The ampersand (&) is included in the character set, and must be used with a statement label appearing in a CALL argument list to indicate an alternate return point. In VS FORTRAN, use an asterisk (*) here. -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 20 Aug 2001 12:07:15 -0400 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 28 Message-ID: <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 998323636 13460 166.84.1.3 (20 Aug 2001 16:07:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Aug 2001 16:07:16 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!panix!news.panix.com!panix3.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87806 >I used to do stage lighting for an amateur theatre company (about the same time >I was a projectionist and NCR hacker.) One Saturday morning, I was in early >and up a scaffold working on a troublesome spotlight, with the main fuses >hanging off my belt and my multilock and padlock securing the main switch, when >*another* volunteer came in, got the spare fuses out of the parts cabinet, >levered off the multilock, and powered up the panel. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ you mean to say he knowlingly pried off a safety device? As a Vogon captain once said "death's too good for him". I worked inside, outside and all around an IBM system 1130, which had fair sized motors for the card reader and printers. There were safety interlocks to remove power from all spinning parts, but *some* had an override. I still have the one from the 1442 card reader. It was a large red box with a teeney micro switch inside. A tiny hex key wrench in the un-labelled hole made a HUGE flag pop up (I think it said "override" or "on") and the switch was on again. This flag doubled as the button the cabinet pushed in, so closing the cabinet automatically reset the override. Similarly, there were switches inside the Telefile disk drives that were pushed by the cabinet doors to enable the dangerous things, but moving a slide bar aside let you pull the switches to go "on". -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:17:58 GMT Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net Message-ID: <3b80cafa.372239913@news.shuswap.net> References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <998010297snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm3-14.shuswap.net X-Trace: 20 Aug 2001 09:34:28 -0700, salmonarm3-14.shuswap.net Lines: 19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!feed.textport.net!news.bnb-lp.com!nubby2.!salmonarm3-14.shuswap.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87817 jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes: > >>you walk out in the morning and you are immediately hit in the face >>with the wind blowing up valley from the garlic fields. > >Must be rough on vampires in the Bay area... What vampire is going to be up in the morning? Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9les6t$7sc$1@top.mitre.org> <9lravo$9tj$1@top.mitre.org> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 Message-ID: Lines: 49 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:18:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.174.228.180 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 998324314 199.174.228.180 (Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:18:34 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:18:34 PDT X-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:15:16 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87814 jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: > > Sounds like a history of VNET as well, no? > > Joe Morris there is this (likely true) folktale about some (networking) technical advisor associated with corporate hdqtrs, when he first came across VNET, wrote an opinion that it couldn't be true since a fully decentralized operational network required 100s of person years to design, implement and deploy (on par with the FS project); and he had access to executive level project allocation and expenses and no such project was listed; therefor it couldn't exist. another folktale was of a reported presentation in the mid-80s to the corporate executive committee that if VNET wasn't converted to SNA, it would stop working (ignoring for the moment that if it had tried to have used SNA it would have never happened). one of the brilliance of VNET was that from the start it divorced the link-level and much of the network-level from the higher levels and effectively had gateway function from the start (essentially late '60s). This didn't appear in the internet until the great cut-over in '83 (and was one of the reasons that the internal network was larger than the arpanet/internet from just about the beginning thru the mid-80s). in the ibm batch world, one of the primary implementations was JES2 & NJE, which didn't share this characteristic and it was frequent that when two different releases of JES2/NJE attempted to diretly communicate it could result in a (total) system crash. As a result, on the internal network, JES2/NJE nodes were relegated to peripherial nodes with intermediate VNET nodes having line-drivers that handled the appropriate JES2/NJE header formating to minimize JES2 taking down the complete system (that it was running on). the primary design and implementation effort was the work of one of the people at the cambridge scientific center (same center that virtual machines, a lot of ibm time-sharing, GML, etc came out of; pretty productive for a location that rarely had more than 40 people). random refs: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subindex.html#network http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subindx2.html#network http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#networking -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <998010297snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> <3b80cafa.372239913@news.shuswap.net> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 17 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 16:25:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.174.228.180 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 998324712 199.174.228.180 (Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:25:12 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:25:12 PDT X-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:21:54 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87812 genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) writes: > > What vampire is going to be up in the morning? > the up-valley change in wind direction happened sometime the previous evening ... maybe sometime between 8-11pm. the wind would then change to down-valley sometime late mid-morning. you would sometimes find san jose airport shutdown for 10 minutes or so around 11am for take-off/landings to reverse direction (majority of the time the pattern is south to north, but some mornings it would be the reverse and then have to change sometime mid-morning). -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW.... Date: Sun, 19 Aug 01 07:40:21 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9lo46o$j7c$5@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com> <20010811095537.50100c4e.steveo@eircom.net> <9lb3gn$llh$12@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7DC201.29E06F61@rcsri.org> <9llib5$nbq$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lmfs6$n0n$1@top.mitre.org> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVahziHwv48DuotBJUeGusfzov9rTIu/N5GitC0VKuaUzKkhHzzqi7CA X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Aug 2001 10:25:28 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!news.stealth.net!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-214 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87800 In article <9lmfs6$n0n$1@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >> Once upon a time, >>there was a weather forecast for a hurricane. In preparation for >>this weather, everything (but the A/Cs) were powered down and >>turned off. I got up at 2AM to watch the hurricane (I'd never >>seen one before and was curious...and foolish). The weathermen >>had cancelled the hurricane so I just went into work. JMF and >>TW were there and we walked through the _quiet_ machine room. >>I'd never experienced anything as spooky. It was also a frigid >>machine room. > >I think it may have been in a.f.c that I posted a while back a story >of how an incompetent fire-alarm technician managed to trip the scram >switch for my computer room. It's amazing how *loud* the silence >is, especially when you don't expect it. Yes. Harbingers of doom may not be noisy :-). /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> <3b80cafa.372239913@news.shuswap.net> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 23 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:26:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.213.74.25 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 998335560 141.213.74.25 (Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:26:00 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:26:00 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87873 In article <3b80cafa.372239913@news.shuswap.net>, Gene Wirchenko wrote: >jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >>Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes: >>>you walk out in the morning and you are immediately hit in the face >>>with the wind blowing up valley from the garlic fields. >> >>Must be rough on vampires in the Bay area... > > What vampire is going to be up in the morning? Maybe it's some sort of California vampires that like to party at all hours of the day. Out late, go to bed around sun-down, that sort of thing. I would guess that they could accomplish this by means of dark sunglasses and lots of sun-block. By the way, I've always wondered how vampires would react to artificial garlic flavoring. Once I get back to the University, maybe I can try spiking the food at the Law School and see what happens. Purely in the interest of science, of course. -- Sergej Roytman ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> Organization: Daedalus Consulting X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Lines: 14 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:20:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.144.16 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tsnz.net X-Trace: news02.tsnz.net 998338840 203.96.144.16 (Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:20:40 NZST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:20:40 NZST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news02.tsnz.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87868 Peter Ibbotson wrote: >I was wondering what the left-pondians call a "Yankee" screwdriver >see: http://www.toolfast.co.uk/styrhd28.html for picture, one of the best >tools known to man for scratching a nice varnished surface. I'm not sure I'd >even dare to use one now, it always seemed to take a while to get used to it >if you've not used it for several months. You have to cross an extra pond to get here, but I grew up calling that a "Stanley screwdriver". Maybe Stanley was the main manufacturer of such beasts. Either that or a "push drill". (They always came equipped with both screwdriver and drill bits, usually stored in the handle, unlike the example pictured in the reference above.) -- don ###### From: Sam Yorko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:50:51 -0800 Lines: 26 Message-ID: <3B81782B.C8BDA926@computer.org> References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <998010297snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> <3b80cafa.372239913@news.shuswap.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: symsj01.sj.symbol.com (206.61.138.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 998337038 11147954 206.61.138.2 (16 [71567]) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!symsj01.sj.symbol.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87863 Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: > > genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) writes: > > > > > What vampire is going to be up in the morning? > > > > the up-valley change in wind direction happened sometime the previous > evening ... maybe sometime between 8-11pm. > > the wind would then change to down-valley sometime late > mid-morning. you would sometimes find san jose airport shutdown for 10 > minutes or so around 11am for take-off/landings to reverse direction > (majority of the time the pattern is south to north, but some mornings > it would be the reverse and then have to change sometime mid-morning). > > -- > Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ Since I bicycle ride down Coyote valley during my "lunch" break, I am full aware of when the wind changes here; it can be around 1:00. Time it wrong, and I could be faced with a head wind in >both< directions... Sam ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <998010297snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> <3b80cafa.372239913@news.shuswap.net> <3B81782B.C8BDA926@computer.org> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:28:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.174.228.97 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 998342902 199.174.228.97 (Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:28:22 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:28:22 PDT X-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 14:25:03 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87867 Sam Yorko writes: > > Since I bicycle ride down Coyote valley during my "lunch" break, I am > full aware of when the wind changes here; it can be around 1:00. > Time it wrong, and I could be faced with a head wind in >both< > directions... in the early 80s, i periodically did some work at STL lab (on bailey). and did bicycle south in the morning and north in the afternoon and had strong head winds in both direction (before moving further south) -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 01 09:52:19 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 41 Message-ID: <9m0932$b4i$9@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> <20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYcqDQyW3Ui3kuDmSiPsh253nfPiTuwsKwbNdbZm8zIXHrD7SE5FDxm X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Aug 2001 12:37:54 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-218 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87910 In article , john.cc@nospam.europlacer.co.uk (John Carlyle-Clarke) wrote: >Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote in ><20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net>: > >>On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:30:47 GMT >>Brian Huntley wrote: >> >>BH> A rough rule of thumb with Sun machines is, if you're adding RAM, >>you will NOT get BH> it properly seated first time (50% probability.) If >>you install it, put the covers BH> on, screw them down, and re-cable the >>machine before booting, the odds go to 100%. >> >> Sun most definitely does not have a monopoly on this feature, >> AFAICT >>it is nearly universal. It also applies to more things than RAM (like >>almost anything in the case). >> > >I was once told a story - probably apocryphal - about a batch or model of >Compaq PC many years ago where some of the components were not seated in >their sockets properly and on some machines could cause a failure to boot. >Supposedly, customers calling up with this model of dead machine were told >to hold the box level about two feet off the ground and then release it. >Supposedly the shock would be just enough to seat the loose items and cause >the machine to work. It sounds unbelievable, but you never know. This was >related to me during a discussion about the comparative physical build >quality of various machines and their indestructability. Supposedly >Compaq's (at the time at least) could generally survive a nasty fall. This is an aspect of a tower. It doesn't defy gravity. I don't drop mine to fix it but I do jiggle the wire/plug that connects the terminal to the video card. The card gets loose from all the jiggling caused by the semis rolling past. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 01 09:48:32 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <9m08ru$b4i$7@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <998419689snz@dsl.co.uk> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVY1yMxTZC+hadvP/OKx2JHvv7YF8N+MoUSDL32CKuDEx/+FMXA5ANTp X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Aug 2001 12:34:06 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-218 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87923 In article <998419689snz@dsl.co.uk>, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: >In article <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >> But, But, BUT! All the advertisements show pretty dressed-up >> women using them to screw anything. > >I don't think I wish to know that! And the female uses only one thumb! > >(I tried to remember the emoticon for "eyebrows shooting off top of >head") Oh, dear. I slued again. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 01 09:50:06 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaykVp0C/R8GKAYiKWzVA+ypyOl3BK9HXFNZNkFDKtWmRxxFLpTmQnK X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Aug 2001 12:35:40 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-218 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87924 In article , lysse wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >:>Electric power screwdrivers have *mostly* replaced them. >:>I never found them to give enough driving power for screws, >:>but as drills for pilot holes in wood they're the best! > >: But, But, BUT! All the advertisements show pretty dressed-up >: women using them to screw anything. > >oh, the mental images... You see the adverts. You know....you guys are the ones who created the meanings of these words. All this time I thought you all were talking about hardware. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 01 10:00:08 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 53 Message-ID: <9m09hm$b4i$10@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZIDce/siZJW/LrMoPMaZwDWkz8Go5ONBWw+p0aRgybEcgr+vFHGMu0 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Aug 2001 12:45:42 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-218 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87927 In article , ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) wrote: >Fortran II only had the arithmetic IF statement: > > IF (arithmetic result) s1, s2, s3 > >which would go to s1 if the result was less than zero (distinct from >negative, because we had a machine that distinguished negative zero from >positive zero -- not all second-generation hardware could do that), s2 if >it was positive or negative zero, and s3 if it was greater than zero. I remember this. >In article <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > > >Later you used FORTRAN 4, which had logical IF statements, not > > >just arithmetic ones: > > > > > >FORTRAN 2: IF (A-B) 30,30,50 > > > > I don't recall this construct being available. The FORTRAN-II > > I learned was on an IBM 1620. > >It was there. You couldn't have learned FORTRAN II without learning that >statement. I could put the expression within the parentheses? I thought I had to compute the expression outside the IF, assigning it to a variable..I think of type INTEGER..I'm sure about this. Then I can use the variable in the IF statement to direct the branching. > ...There was the arithmetic IF and the computed GOTO. The latter >was of the form: > > GOTO (N) s1, s2, s3, s4, s5 > >which would go to s1 if N was 1, s2 if N was 2, etc. VERY useful for a >small number of things. Oh, yeah. I loved that one. Then I learned PDP-10 machine language and discovered how to really set up indexed addressing. > /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 21 Aug 01 09:14:05 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 49 Message-ID: <9ltif1$oi9$5@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <30jcntg0pqpo6pr4crj893j0vqcua2dbbi@4ax.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVY7R8QZuQRlGef2MFQNs6ZPf8HDzD2VIA2Aq0LRyh5Xh7aZVTTM5u2J X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Aug 2001 11:59:29 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-251 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87929 In article , Lee Ayrton wrote: > > >On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, D.J. wrote: > >> nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) wrote: >> []Enlighten this leftponder please: Vice-grip and wrench I can cope with - but >> []duct tape...is it the fabric based 2" silver or black tape with a glue so >> []strong it sticks to just about anything (to itself, permananently!) which >> []the film and TV industry calls 'gaffer tape'? (not to be confused with >> []camera tape) >> >> gaffer tape and duct tape are 2 different things. According to some >> theatrical stage techs I know. > > I work in the motion picture/television industry, Welcome and thanks for the delurking. :-) > ... so I use >gaffer's tape daily. It is a tape with a strong, close-weave cloth backing >that can be easily torn along either axis. The mastic is more stabile in >temperature extremes than duct tape and will not leave a mastic residue. >It is designed to *almost* never remove paint or wall paper from surfaces >in good condition. How long does it stick? > ... It is available in a variety of colors but the most >often used flavors are 2" black and 1" white. The former is for sticking >things together, the latter for labeling. A roll of good quality 2" >gaffer's tape will cost you about $35US retail. Where can I buy it? > > > No, no! Not yet. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 21 Aug 01 09:16:54 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 25 Message-ID: <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaagulWY6p+Ayz/psBoO5IokeTOgqpQMIp+dbocG/xO1CB7G7U4a7eA X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Aug 2001 12:02:18 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-251 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87935 In article <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com>, jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) wrote: >>I was wondering what the left-pondians call a "Yankee" screwdriver >>see: http://www.toolfast.co.uk/styrhd28.html for picture > >They're called Yankee here too. >I think that's the name of the mfgr. I never heard of that so it might be. > >Electric power screwdrivers have *mostly* replaced them. >I never found them to give enough driving power for screws, >but as drills for pilot holes in wood they're the best! But, But, BUT! All the advertisements show pretty dressed-up women using them to screw anything. I can't begin to tell you how disappointed I was when I finally figured out that the advert for a snowblower was showing the blower clearing a heated driveway. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 21 Aug 01 10:17:19 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: <775.633T976T6173817@nowhere.in.particular> References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-237.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88009 In article <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> bphuntley@home.com (Brian Huntley) writes: >A rough rule of thumb with Sun machines is, if you're adding RAM, >you will NOT get it properly seated first time (50% probability.) >If you install it, put the covers on, screw them down, and re-cable >the machine before booting, the odds go to 100%. This is a fundamental principle which guides me constantly. Even back when I'd make a one-shot modification to a JCL deck, I learned that it was best to wait until the job ran to successful completion before breaking the deck back down to its original state. Otherwise the job was guaranteed to fail and I'd have to rebuild the deck and try again. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 20 Aug 01 12:06:48 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 14 Message-ID: <493.632T2430T7266191@nowhere.in.particular> References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-908.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88011 In article <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) writes: >Similarly, there were switches inside the Telefile disk drives >that were pushed by the cabinet doors to enable the dangerous things, >but moving a slide bar aside let you pull the switches to go "on". Knowing how to disable interlocks is a valuable tool when diagnosing hardware. So is the caution with which you do so. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 21 Aug 01 23:06:52 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 14 Message-ID: <488.633T2604T13866345@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> <3b80cafa.372239913@news.shuswap.net> <998340052snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B82F2DC.AD52A4FF@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-703.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88016 In article <3B82F2DC.AD52A4FF@ev1.net> richmond@ev1.net (Charles Richmond) writes: >I thought the Brits would use Mercaptan to add a smell to naturl gas, >just like we do in the U.S. Mercaptan is a sulphur compound that has >a pungent odor...IMHO it smells *awful*. And it only takes a little >Mercaptan to "season" up a *lot* of natural gas. IIRC butyl mercaptan is the skunk's secret ingredient. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:40:52 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <998340052snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> <3b80cafa.372239913@news.shuswap.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 998376874 mail2news:24510 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88056 In article ftit@engin.umich.edu "Sergej Roytman" writes: > By the way, I've always wondered how vampires would react to artificial > garlic flavoring. Once I get back to the University, maybe I can try > spiking the food at the Law School and see what happens. Purely in the > interest of science, of course. How about natural gas? In the UK, at least, chemical additives are mixed in with North Sea Gas, and one of these is reputedly the "active" ingredient in garlic. I know that the gas companies sometimes get reports about "gas leaks" on country lanes which turn out to be due to the presence of wild garlic. So take these vampires into the kitchen! -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: lysse Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lc1k3$1e8$8@news.panix.com> <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <997898978snz@dsl.co.uk> <574.627T428T9933489@nowhere.in.particular> <20010816085150.18f65e00.steveo@eircom.net> Organization: http://lysse.co.uk Reply-To: lysse.news@blueyonder.co.uk User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980226 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.39 (i486)) Message-ID: Lines: 23 Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:31:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.31.8.144 X-Complaints-To: http://www.blueyonder.co.uk/abuse X-Trace: news1.cableinet.net 998350294 62.31.8.144 (Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:31:34 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:31:34 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-peer!btnet!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!internal-news-hub.cableinet.net!news1.cableinet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87966 Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: : On 15 Aug 01 16:33:08 -0800 : "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: : CG> is "bated". Also, we speak of giving someone free rein as in : CG> horses, not free reign as in kings.) : Yep, these days monarchs pay for their reign, in the UK at least. : Ever since dear Maggie started taxing them, it always seemed strange to : me that, I mean in principle the monarch is the one the taxes are paid to. Quite off-topic, but didn't the queen only start paying taxes under John Major, and then only voluntarily in a stab at rescuing the public image of the monarchy? : Ah well, the world is under no obligation to make sense, especially : at this temperature and humidity level :) No argument there. :-) -- lysse at lysse dot co dot uk "Why are your problems always so much bigger than everyone else's?" "Because they're mine." -- Ally McBeal ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:39:24 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 21 Message-ID: <20010821073924.09eb2d62.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lc1k3$1e8$8@news.panix.com> <9ldqqj$391$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <997898978snz@dsl.co.uk> <574.627T428T9933489@nowhere.in.particular> <20010816085150.18f65e00.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1105.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 998413211 93457 194.134.203.86 (21 Aug 2001 17:00:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:00:11 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87997 On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:31:34 GMT lysse wrote: > Quite off-topic, but didn't the queen only start paying taxes under OT, in here ? > John Major, and then only voluntarily in a stab at rescuing the public > image of the monarchy? Could be, I had thought it was Maggie. As for the reason, that's anyones guess, you probably have the *published* reason right :) It *still* seems fundamentally at cross purposes with the idea of a monarchy. I wouldn't be surprised if in the long term it is marked in history books as the real end date of the royal power. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### Message-ID: <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> From: Brian Huntley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:30:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.114.133.61 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news3.rdc1.on.home.com 998393447 24.114.133.61 (Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:30:47 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:30:47 PDT Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news3.rdc1.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88076 Jeff Jonas wrote: > Similarly, there were switches inside the Telefile disk drives > that were pushed by the cabinet doors to enable the dangerous things, > but moving a slide bar aside let you pull the switches to go "on". Yeah, Sun's actually put them back in, in some of their larger machines (E450, for example.) First cabinet switches I've seen in years. A rough rule of thumb with Sun machines is, if you're adding RAM, you will NOT get it properly seated first time (50% probability.) If you install it, put the covers on, screw them down, and re-cable the machine before booting, the odds go to 100%. ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:24:52 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 15 Message-ID: <20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net> References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p440.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 998419286 18019 194.134.201.40 (21 Aug 2001 18:41:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:41:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87987 On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:30:47 GMT Brian Huntley wrote: BH> A rough rule of thumb with Sun machines is, if you're adding RAM, you will NOT get BH> it properly seated first time (50% probability.) If you install it, put the covers BH> on, screw them down, and re-cable the machine before booting, the odds go to 100%. Sun most definitely does not have a monopoly on this feature, AFAICT it is nearly universal. It also applies to more things than RAM (like almost anything in the case). -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:48:09 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <998419689snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 998433503 mail2news:1188 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 16 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88066 In article <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > But, But, BUT! All the advertisements show pretty dressed-up > women using them to screw anything. I don't think I wish to know that! (I tried to remember the emoticon for "eyebrows shooting off top of head") -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 21 Aug 2001 19:44:56 GMT Organization: Around here? Lines: 23 Message-ID: <9ludno$smn$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <30jcntg0pqpo6pr4crj893j0vqcua2dbbi@4ax.com> <9ltif1$oi9$5@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-7-98-39.btinternet.com User-Agent: Xnews/4.04.17tea Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88034 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in <9ltif1$oi9$5@bob.news.rcn.net>: > In article , > Lee Ayrton wrote: >> ... so I use >> gaffer's tape daily. It is a tape with a strong, close-weave cloth >> backing that can be easily torn along either axis. The mastic is more >> stabile in temperature extremes than duct tape and will not leave a >> mastic residue. It is designed to *almost* never remove paint or wall >> paper from surfaces in good condition. > > How long does it stick? It starts to lose it's best effect after five years...at ten years, it's almost always had it. But by then it's time to build a new studio anyway! Silver for some reason seems to last longer on the roll than black. -- I have a quantum car. Every time I look at the speedometer I get lost... barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk ###### Message-ID: <3B82F2DC.AD52A4FF@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> <3b80cafa.372239913@news.shuswap.net> <998340052snz@dsl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:48:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.179.111.125 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc2.tx.home.com 998430527 24.179.111.125 (Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:48:47 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:48:47 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc2.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88054 Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > > In article > ftit@engin.umich.edu "Sergej Roytman" writes: > > > By the way, I've always wondered how vampires would react to artificial > > garlic flavoring. Once I get back to the University, maybe I can try > > spiking the food at the Law School and see what happens. Purely in the > > interest of science, of course. > > How about natural gas? In the UK, at least, chemical additives are mixed > in with North Sea Gas, and one of these is reputedly the "active" > ingredient in garlic. I know that the gas companies sometimes get > reports about "gas leaks" on country lanes which turn out to be due to > the presence of wild garlic. > I thought the Brits would use Mercaptan to add a smell to naturl gas, just like we do in the U.S. Mercaptan is a sulphur compound that has a pungent odor...IMHO it smells *awful*. And it only takes a little Mercaptan to "season" up a *lot* of natural gas. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:38:25 -0400 References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: max1h-67.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 998451506 max1h-67.his.com (21 Aug 2001 23:38:26 -0400) Lines: 176 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88026 In article <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk>, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: > In article <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> > steveo@eircom.net "Steve O'Hara-Smith" writes: > > > On 10 Aug 2001 23:44:41 -0400 > > "Keith F. Lynch" wrote: > > > > KL> Morten Reistad wrote: > > KL> > And you programmed in Fortran66. (No strings; arithmetic ifs) > > KL> > > KL> And you didn't call it Fortran66, a name it never had at the time. > > KL> It was FORTRAN 2. > > > > Oh so that's what Fortran66 is - and why I never heard of it while > > using FORTRAN. > > Ah, but it ISN'T. Both FORTRAN II *and* FORTRAN IV were already in use > by 1966 (I was using both of them). I think Morten must have made a > mistake in his posting in referring to Fortran66, which I /think/ was an > early attempt at standardization (perhaps just to the extent of ratifying > prevailing "standards"). Yep. Fortran had been extended in all directions, with quote-strings and internal read/write and binary/octal/hex constants and laxy I/O and in some cases pre-processor flow control. -1966 was a reductio-ab-initio attempt to find the basic (NPI) subset that really was Fortran. A large reason was so that the government could demand a "standard" compiler available from multiple sources, so that cross-platform work would be possible in Fortran and so that they could pick between suppliers on a given platform. I once had the -1966 standard pretty well memorized -- it was a very modest-sized booklet, about the size of a thick issue of Newsweek or Time. VERY useful to be able to cite it back to the language maintainers I had to work with, when I found a bug and they declared it to be a feature. -1977 was a real pain, with a manual that couldn't be casually carried around and full of non-ambiguous statements that were impossible to /understand/. I still have my copy of -1966 around somewhere. In article <11b4l9.nv4.ln@amanda.reistad.priv.no>, mrr@reistad.priv.no (Morten Reistad) wrote: > In this language you send a string to stdout by sonething like > > WRITE(1,33) > 33 FORMAT(12HHELLO, WORLD) > > (If unit 1 is mapped to Stdout. This would be 6 on EXEC-8) The broad standard was units: 5 = card input 6 = printed output 7 = punched output So far as I know, this came from the 709/7090/7094 tape drive sequence. I know that on our 7094, we used as a standard: 1 = system library tape 2 = system scratch 3 = available user scratch 4 = available user scratch 5 (two tape drives, switchable) = 7094 input job stream 6 (two drives, switchable) = 7094 print/punch output stream 7-9 available user scratch Big sorts would require all the tapes and drives we could find. When we sorted the library's entire list of holdings, we re-numbered the extra 5 and 6 drives, put scratches on all the spare drives, and ran an unbalanced 7-drive (or maybe it was 8-drive) multi-phase tape sort. It was like a scene from the movies -- terrific techno-theater. > You have conditional jumps like > > I = 23 + A *(100 -B) > IF(I) 33,33,35 > 33 CONTINUE > C This code is executed if I <= 0 > 35 CONTINUE > > and a number of other stuff. Fortran II only had the arithmetic IF statement: IF (arithmetic result) s1, s2, s3 which would go to s1 if the result was less than zero (distinct from negative, because we had a machine that distinguished negative zero from positive zero -- not all second-generation hardware could do that), s2 if it was positive or negative zero, and s3 if it was greater than zero. Fortran IV added, on every implementation, the logical IF: IF (condition) statement allowing you to say things like: IF (PI * (R ** 2) .GT. 1.717) WRITE (6, 25227) R (and) IF (EOFSW .NE. FALSE) GO TO 1540 > Even details like stdin and stdout was different. On DEC mainframes > you assigned logical names to the numerical units; on IBM iron you > either fixed them with DD cards; or used defaults. On Univac there were > hardwired units for in/out/punch/tape. You're comparing different generations, here. Second generation tended, in Fortran, toward fixed numbers; third generation provided much more flexibility in where those numbers would make things happen. Oh, God -- I just had a flashback to the IBM naming convention for file names. From the company that brought you compiler messages that consisted of "LINE 003452 IEH001E" came file names of "FT08F001" which would be the first output file on a volume, for Fortran logical device #8. In article <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >Later you used FORTRAN 4, which had logical IF statements, not > >just arithmetic ones: > > > >FORTRAN 2: IF (A-B) 30,30,50 > > I don't recall this construct being available. The FORTRAN-II > I learned was on an IBM 1620. It was there. You couldn't have learned FORTRAN II without learning that statement. There was the arithmetic IF and the computed GOTO. The latter was of the form: GOTO (N) s1, s2, s3, s4, s5 which would go to s1 if N was 1, s2 if N was 2, etc. VERY useful for a small number of things. > >FORTRAN 4: IF (A.GT.B) GOTO 50 > > > >It also had strings, but they were called literals, and didn't use > >quote marks, but were preceded by a number and an H. > > > >FORTRAN 4: FORMAT (2I3X11HHELLO WORLD3X5I) Hollerith constants or Hollerith literals. Yes, "string" was still to be invented, although we used the term casually. > I hated counting those Holleriths. I'm glad I never had > to do any card changing for you. I liked having comma > delimiters. ;-) Counting those strings was a LOT easier with one of the UARCO forms rulers. And nobody ever got them right every time. I also used to punch them into a card, use another card's column numbers to count the length, then go back into the first card and insert the count-field in the right place on a second pass. I still got them wrong occasionally. > Yup. Yup. I've written them. I just didn't associate it with > FORTRAN II. Probably because I remember cheering when FORTRAN IV > included computed GOTOs. Did you use computer GOTO's a lot? I used them once in a blue moon -- at which times they were enormously useful. Logical If forever! In article <3b76bdd4.78238602@news.shuswap.net>, genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) wrote: > There was also Waterloo FORTRAN IV (a student compiler): WATFIV > (pronounced "watt five"). Then what language did WATFOR, Waterloo Fortran, represent? -- Edward ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:38:28 -0400 References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: max1h-67.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 998451507 max1h-67.his.com (21 Aug 2001 23:38:27 -0400) Lines: 43 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88025 In article <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net>, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > Seen that! When I saw it it was the result of a FORTRAN program > trying to print a table of numbers, the first column of numbers was left > justified and I'll bet most people here know what the first digit was > and why it had this effect. > > > It was a 1 which was the FORTRAN carriage control for form feed, one of > the less inspired decisions of the early days :) It was meaningful for the original hardware for which it was intended -- a machine that had four or six or eight "channels" on a tape that moved over two pulleys, which a read-head that knew when there was a punch in any channel. That leading "1" meant "skip to the next hole in channel 1," just as a "2" meant "skip to the next hole in channel 2." This was typically employed by using "1" to match the control tape to the top of the printer page (the tape was, mirabile dictu, the same length as the printed page, or the same length as a page of checks, or the same length as a page of library card forms, etc.); "2" to mean "top of page or half page" by putting two equidistant punches in channel 2; etc. As more channels became available, casual conventions (nothing like standards!) included "top of page" and "last line on page" (to put page numbering onto pages rapidly without having to move down the page counting one line at a time). > On many printers, slewing to channel 1 and then doing that again was /not/ the fastest way to move paper, and many printers could stack paper about that fast -- you stood a reasonable chance of just finding that your box of blank paper had moved from one side of the printer to the other while you chatted with the customers in the I/O room. Each channel 1 punch would make the paper stop for just a small fraction of a second, before the next page began, and some stacked could keep up with that. But the sure-fire way to jam things up /royally/ was to slew to some channel that had no punches at all. This didn't involve any kind of pause at all -- the paper moved as fast as the paper-mover could move the paper, not even a tiny pause, box without end. It was glorious. Edward ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:38:29 -0400 References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <998010297snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ljt8v$2kd$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: max1h-67.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 998451508 max1h-67.his.com (21 Aug 2001 23:38:28 -0400) Lines: 19 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88027 In article <9ljt8v$2kd$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>, ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) wrote: > Speaking of model 195's - about the time that the largest IBM iron in > Canada was the 2 meg 85, --> IIRC <-- McDonell-Douglas (sp?) put up > six, yes VI, of those suckers for sale! That must have been 1/4 of the > total computing power on earth at that time. Perhaps a juicy NASA or > air force deal fell through. Even speaking loosely, I can't see how that could be even close to right, Heinz. There were plenty of 360/91 and 360/95's around. CDC had plenty of machines out there. The 360/85 was a stop-gap pending delivery of the 370/195, which faced competition from CDC 7600 and other fast machines. Starans and ASPs and ASCs were there by then. (Hmmm, maybe the Staran was a little later.) Six 360/85's would have made a nice machine room, but it wasn't much compared to some machine rooms in the US. ehr ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 22 Aug 2001 04:08:12 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <9lvb7c$9m0$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <998010297snz@dsl.co.uk> <9ljt8v$2kd$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 998453292 9920 134.117.136.30 (22 Aug 2001 04:08:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Aug 2001 04:08:12 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-dallas!news-in-dallas.newsfeeds.com!in.nntp.be!news.kjsl.com!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87965 Edward Rice (ehrice@his.com) writes: > > Even speaking loosely, I can't see how that could be even close to right, > Heinz. There were plenty of 360/91 and 360/95's around. CDC had plenty of > machines out there. Speaking tightly, CDCs were the devil incarnate. Until Intel, that is. B-) ###### From: gorilla@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 22 Aug 2001 04:13:56 GMT Organization: Gorilla & Hamster Zoo of Toronto Lines: 7 Message-ID: <998453590.326133@elaine.furryape.com> References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <998340052snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B82F2DC.AD52A4FF@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-426.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test60 (5 October 1997) Cache-Post-Path: elaine.furryape.com!unknown@localhost X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!elaine.drink.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87954 In article <3B82F2DC.AD52A4FF@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >I thought the Brits would use Mercaptan to add a smell to naturl gas, >just like we do in the U.S. Mercaptan is a sulphur compound that has They do. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 22 Aug 2001 04:24:14 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9lvc5e$ao8$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 998454254 11016 134.117.136.30 (22 Aug 2001 04:24:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Aug 2001 04:24:14 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.flash.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87967 Edward Rice (ehrice@his.com) writes: > ... > Then what language did WATFOR, Waterloo Fortran, represent? FORTRAN IV. And I still have my 1968 book from Cress, Dirkson and Graham. In a previous post it was mentioned that uninitialized variables were detected by a parity error on a 7nnn machine. Once upon a time, a program I was running under WATFIV complained after I read in an arithmetic variable using A format, and the card (yup) had blanks (that's hex 40 in the EBCDIC world). I took the problem to Paul Cress and he informed me that hex forties was the method to detect uninitialized variables in the 360 world. So the moral of the story is - it don't matter what value you chose to indicate uninitialized, someone will use it. Better have a bit set aside somewhere else to decide the matter. ###### From: lysse Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> Organization: http://lysse.co.uk Reply-To: lysse.news@blueyonder.co.uk User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980226 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.39 (i486)) Message-ID: Lines: 14 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:31:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.31.9.47 X-Complaints-To: http://www.blueyonder.co.uk/abuse X-Trace: news1.cableinet.net 998458301 62.31.9.47 (Wed, 22 Aug 2001 06:31:41 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 06:31:41 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!internal-news-hub.cableinet.net!news1.cableinet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87976 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: :>Electric power screwdrivers have *mostly* replaced them. :>I never found them to give enough driving power for screws, :>but as drills for pilot holes in wood they're the best! : But, But, BUT! All the advertisements show pretty dressed-up : women using them to screw anything. oh, the mental images... -- lysse at lysse dot co dot uk "Why are your problems always so much bigger than everyone else's?" "Because they're mine." -- Ally McBeal ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:36:29 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 24 Message-ID: <20010822073629.2c5566c3.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1475.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 998499613 30567 194.134.170.200 (22 Aug 2001 17:00:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:00:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.siscom.net!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87991 On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:38:28 -0400 ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) wrote: ER> In article <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net>, ER> Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: ER> > It was a 1 which was the FORTRAN carriage control for form feed, one of ER> > the less inspired decisions of the early days :) ER> ER> It was meaningful for the original hardware for which it was intended -- a Oh yes, it had reasons. It was just such an easy trap to fall in to :) ER> On many printers, slewing to channel 1 and then doing that again was /not/ ER> the fastest way to move paper, and many printers could stack paper about ER> that fast -- you stood a reasonable chance of just finding that your box of ER> blank paper had moved from one side of the printer to the other while you I never saw one that could keep up, neat. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:38:06 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 17 Message-ID: <20010822073806.23319991.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <998419689snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1475.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 998499613 30567 194.134.170.200 (22 Aug 2001 17:00:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:00:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.germany.net!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cleanfeed.casema.net!leda.casema.net!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87972 On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:48:09 GMT bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: BK> In article <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: BK> BK> > But, But, BUT! All the advertisements show pretty dressed-up BK> > women using them to screw anything. BK> BK> I don't think I wish to know that! Before you get too excited, remember how the elephant screws tortoises. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: john.cc@nospam.europlacer.co.uk (John Carlyle-Clarke) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:03:46 +0000 Organization: Europlacer Message-ID: References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> <20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net> User-Agent: Xnews/4.01.30 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 27 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-uk-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.co.uk!pc69.comconnect!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88068 Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote in <20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net>: >On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:30:47 GMT >Brian Huntley wrote: > >BH> A rough rule of thumb with Sun machines is, if you're adding RAM, >you will NOT get BH> it properly seated first time (50% probability.) If >you install it, put the covers BH> on, screw them down, and re-cable the >machine before booting, the odds go to 100%. > > Sun most definitely does not have a monopoly on this feature, > AFAICT >it is nearly universal. It also applies to more things than RAM (like >almost anything in the case). > I was once told a story - probably apocryphal - about a batch or model of Compaq PC many years ago where some of the components were not seated in their sockets properly and on some machines could cause a failure to boot. Supposedly, customers calling up with this model of dead machine were told to hold the box level about two feet off the ground and then release it. Supposedly the shock would be just enough to seat the loose items and cause the machine to work. It sounds unbelievable, but you never know. This was related to me during a discussion about the comparative physical build quality of various machines and their indestructability. Supposedly Compaq's (at the time at least) could generally survive a nasty fall. ###### From: lionel@xcski.com (Lionel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:11:22 +1000 Organization: none at all Lines: 34 Sender: lionel@xcski.com (Lionel) Message-ID: References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-45.ap1-nas4.unite.mel.dav.net.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: allhats.xcski.com 998467752 15186 203.174.144.45 (22 Aug 2001 08:09:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xcski.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Aug 2001 08:09:12 GMT X-No-Archive: yes X-Given-From: Lionel Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!xcski.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88049 Word has it that on 20 Aug 2001 12:07:15 -0400, in this august forum, jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) said: >>I used to do stage lighting for an amateur theatre company (about the same time >>I was a projectionist and NCR hacker.) One Saturday morning, I was in early >>and up a scaffold working on a troublesome spotlight, with the main fuses >>hanging off my belt and my multilock and padlock securing the main switch, when >>*another* volunteer came in, got the spare fuses out of the parts cabinet, >>levered off the multilock, and powered up the panel. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >you mean to say he knowlingly pried off a safety device? >As a Vogon captain once said "death's too good for him". What you said. I'd have beaten the crap out of him, & possibly stored his tools in several of his body cavities. Way too many people die each year because of morons breaking electrical safety rules. [safety interlocks] >Similarly, there were switches inside the Telefile disk drives >that were pushed by the cabinet doors to enable the dangerous things, >but moving a slide bar aside let you pull the switches to go "on". At one company (unrelated to computers) I was a field tech for, we had a Chinese puzzle-looking plastic gizmo that had tabs & cutouts that fitted the safety interlocks of all the different types of equipment that we serviced. If you lost it, you'd grab a chunk of thick plastic & make up bypass keys by cutting it to shape with a pair of side-cutters. -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- ###### From: lionel@xcski.com (Lionel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:16:58 +1000 Organization: none at all Lines: 33 Sender: lionel@xcski.com (Lionel) Message-ID: References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-45.ap1-nas4.unite.mel.dav.net.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: allhats.xcski.com 998468088 15228 203.174.144.45 (22 Aug 2001 08:14:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xcski.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Aug 2001 08:14:48 GMT X-No-Archive: yes X-Given-From: Lionel Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87885 Word has it that on Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:30:47 GMT, in this august forum, Brian Huntley said: > > >Jeff Jonas wrote: > >> Similarly, there were switches inside the Telefile disk drives >> that were pushed by the cabinet doors to enable the dangerous things, >> but moving a slide bar aside let you pull the switches to go "on". > >Yeah, Sun's actually put them back in, in some of their larger machines (E450, for >example.) First cabinet switches I've seen in years. DEC (RIP!) used to use them even on their x86 based servers. >A rough rule of thumb with Sun machines is, if you're adding RAM, you will NOT get >it properly seated first time (50% probability.) If you install it, put the covers >on, screw them down, and re-cable the machine before booting, the odds go to 100%. Too true. I have a religious ritual of always smoke-testing any machine I've worked on *before* replacing the last panel for precisely this reason. This ensures that Murphy is appeased, & will bless my repair/upgrade/installation work. With SCSI equipped hardware, you would normally sacrifice the goat at about the the same time & smear a drop of the blood on some inconspicuous spot inside the case. -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- ###### From: "Micheal H. McCabe" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 06:59:25 -0400 Organization: Navix Internet Subscribers Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> <20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: r-185.195.alltel.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: iac5.navix.net 998477968 3613 166.102.185.195 (22 Aug 2001 10:59:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@navix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:59:28 GMT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newscore.gigabell.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer1.sprintlink.net!news-in-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.navix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87947 in article Xns91055C2C49203johncceuroplacercouk@192.168.1.69, John Carlyle-Clarke at john.cc@nospam.europlacer.co.uk wrote on 08/22/2001 04:03: > I was once told a story - probably apocryphal - about a batch or model of > Compaq PC many years ago where some of the components were not seated in > their sockets properly and on some machines could cause a failure to boot. > Supposedly, customers calling up with this model of dead machine were told > to hold the box level about two feet off the ground and then release it. > Supposedly the shock would be just enough to seat the loose items and cause > the machine to work. It sounds unbelievable, but you never know. This was > related to me during a discussion about the comparative physical build > quality of various machines and their indestructability. Supposedly > Compaq's (at the time at least) could generally survive a nasty fall. Sounds just like the Apple ///. -- Micheal H. McCabe ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 22 Aug 2001 13:40:10 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 90 Message-ID: <9m0cnq$t28$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 998487610 29768 128.29.251.13 (22 Aug 2001 13:40:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Aug 2001 13:40:10 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87902 ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) writes: >Yep. Fortran had been extended in all directions, with quote-strings and >internal read/write and binary/octal/hex constants and laxy I/O and in some >cases pre-processor flow control. -1966 was a reductio-ab-initio attempt >to find the basic (NPI) subset that really was Fortran. A large reason was >so that the government could demand a "standard" compiler available from >multiple sources, so that cross-platform work would be possible in Fortran >and so that they could pick between suppliers on a given platform. Having standards was a nice idea, but one problem they could cause was that if "standard subsets" were defined you could wind up with programs written to the subset standard (for the admirable purpose of ensuring the ability to be run on the largest range of systems) -- even if the subset was woefully inappropriate. The "poster child" of this problem for me (admittedly in COBOL and not FORTRAN) was a USDA program named SEMIS: State Extension Management Information System. Since it *was* a data base program it needed random access to large data files, but since the COBOL standard subset didn't support direct files it simulated them by treating them as sequential. Yup, to get to record _n_ it rewound the file, skipped down _n-1_ records, read record _n_, and rewound again. On a 360/40, a system not known for its fast memory (2 usec per 2 bytes), the program ran at a wall-clock-to-CPU-clock ratio of 3600:1. >Big sorts would require all the tapes and drives we could find. When we >sorted the library's entire list of holdings, we re-numbered the extra 5 >and 6 drives, put scratches on all the spare drives, and ran an unbalanced >7-drive (or maybe it was 8-drive) multi-phase tape sort. It was like a >scene from the movies -- terrific techno-theater. Yep, and the shop where I was maintaining the IBSYS system somehow managed to have some programs of that type that just happened to run during VIP tours... >Oh, God -- I just had a flashback to the IBM naming convention for file >names. From the company that brought you compiler messages that consisted >of "LINE 003452 IEH001E" came file names of "FT08F001" which would be >the first output file on a volume, for Fortran logical device #8. ObNitpick: that isn't a filename, that's a DDname. The filename (or for purists, DSNAME) was specified on the DD card. For readers not familiar with OS/360: *no* user program had the ability to bind itself to either an I/O device or file. All programs, regardless of the language in which they were written, mapped their I/O through an 8-character string known as the DDname. In the JCL for the step in which the program executed the user would include a DD (Data Definition) control card which bound the DDname to a particular device and/or file. (Yes, programs that knew how to manipulate the internal control blocks of the system could do their own binding, but this was almost never done except by system utilities.) Only FORTRAN imposed its naming scheme on the DDnames, although that wasn't completely unreasonable since the language permitted only numeric "unit numbers" to be used. You could allow users to provide more descriptive DDnames (most commonly SYSIN) by including a DDcard in the catalogued procedure that read: //FT05F001 DD DDNAME=SYSIN and let the user include a DD card named SYSIN. The FORTRAN library would use FT05F001, which the system would resolve by using information from the user-supplied SYSIN DDname. (If there was no SYSIN DDname defined, FT05F001 would be a dummy DD which returned EOF to any read request.) The DDnames for FORTRAN programs were often referred to as "fatooie" names. Another nitpick: a compiler wouldn't be likely to issue any error message with an IEH prefix; that's the prefix assigned to system utilities. I'm sure that you recall everybody's favorite APAR generator, officially known as IEHMOVE? >Counting those strings was a LOT easier with one of the UARCO forms rulers. > And nobody ever got them right every time. I also used to punch them into >a card, use another card's column numbers to count the length, then go back >into the first card and insert the count-field in the right place on a >second pass. I still got them wrong occasionally. Yup. And I used to keep in my shirt pocket a card on which I had marked off multiples of five columns to make it easier to count them. Joe ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 42 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:50:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.213.74.25 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 998488210 141.213.74.25 (Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:50:10 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:50:10 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newsfeed.kpnqwest.at!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88004 In article , Edward Rice wrote: >In article <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net>, >Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > Seen that! When I saw it it was the result of a FORTRAN program > > trying to print a table of numbers, the first column of numbers was left > > justified and I'll bet most people here know what the first digit was > > and why it had this effect. > > > > > > It was a 1 which was the FORTRAN carriage control for form feed, one of > > the less inspired decisions of the early days :) > >It was meaningful for the original hardware for which it was intended -- a >machine that had four or six or eight "channels" on a tape that moved over >two pulleys, which a read-head that knew when there was a punch in any >channel. That leading "1" meant "skip to the next hole in channel 1," just >as a "2" meant "skip to the next hole in channel 2." This was typically >employed by using "1" to match the control tape to the top of the printer >page (the tape was, mirabile dictu, the same length as the printed page, or >the same length as a page of checks, or the same length as a page of >library card forms, etc.); "2" to mean "top of page or half page" by >putting two equidistant punches in channel 2; etc. As more channels became >available, casual conventions (nothing like standards!) included "top of >page" and "last line on page" (to put page numbering onto pages rapidly >without having to move down the page counting one line at a time). Uh, OK, so this was an electro-mechanical thing, right? An endless loop of punched tape which was synchronized with the paper, and the punches in which corresponded to significant places in the paper (top- of-form, bottom of the page, etc.)? How often did this thing wear out? My experience with Fortran control characters happened when I was finishing my undergrad days. We still had a 370-esque dino running MTS in those days, but most work happened on the Suns. Since I was about to graduate, I decided to burn all my MTS funny-money by printing out the _Hackers' Dictionary_ on green-bar paper. This is when I noticed that strange things happened when there was a small integer in col. 1. There was something that caused indenting, as I recall, so I guess that this must have come after the days of a physical tape loop? -- Sergej Roytman ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 22 Aug 2001 13:51:13 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 49 Message-ID: <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 998488273 60 128.29.251.13 (22 Aug 2001 13:51:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Aug 2001 13:51:13 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87898 ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) writes: >Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > It was a 1 which was the FORTRAN carriage control for form feed, one of > > the less inspired decisions of the early days :) >It was meaningful for the original hardware for which it was intended -- a >machine that had four or six or eight "channels" on a tape that moved over >two pulleys, which a read-head that knew when there was a punch in any >channel. That leading "1" meant "skip to the next hole in channel 1," just >as a "2" meant "skip to the next hole in channel 2." This was typically >employed by using "1" to match the control tape to the top of the printer >page (the tape was, mirabile dictu, the same length as the printed page, or >the same length as a page of checks, or the same length as a page of >library card forms, etc.); "2" to mean "top of page or half page" by >putting two equidistant punches in channel 2; etc. As more channels became >available, casual conventions (nothing like standards!) included "top of >page" and "last line on page" (to put page numbering onto pages rapidly >without having to move down the page counting one line at a time). The carriage tape was the same length as the printed page only if the printer was set to 6 lines/inch. Crank the clutch knob over to 8 lpi and the carriage tape would still advance 1/6" for each line. That's why you would find line numbers preprinted on the carriage tapes, allowing you to map the form designer's specs to the correct line on the tape even if it didn't line up when placed against the page. I'm talking about the IBM 1403 (and similar) printers, but in the time I've been in the computer industry I don't think that I ever saw a carriage tape with a pitch other than 6 lpi. > But the sure-fire >way to jam things up /royally/ was to slew to some channel that had no >punches at all. This didn't involve any kind of pause at all -- the paper >moved as fast as the paper-mover could move the paper, not even a tiny >pause, box without end. It was glorious. Glorious, maybe, but also a sure-fire way to irritate the operations staff. Most shops had a policy that if an application spec sheet didn't define all twelve channels for a carriage tape, the operators would add a hole to each unused channel. It didn't matter where the hole was punched as long as there was one to stop a runaway carriage when the user's program screwed up. Joe Morris ###### From: "Peter Ibbotson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:56:47 +0100 Message-ID: <998488463.24153.0.nnrp-08.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> <20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 998488463 nnrp-08:24153 NO-IDENT mailgate.lakeview.co.uk:62.49.243.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2481.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2481.0000 Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mailgate.lakeview.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88047 "John Carlyle-Clarke" wrote in message news:Xns91055C2C49203johncceuroplacercouk@192.168.1.69... > I was once told a story - probably apocryphal - about a batch or model of > Compaq PC many years ago where some of the components were not seated in > their sockets properly and on some machines could cause a failure to boot. > Supposedly, customers calling up with this model of dead machine were told > to hold the box level about two feet off the ground and then release it. Much more likely to be about the Apple /// since this is well documented. -- Work peteri@lakeview.co.uk.plugh.org | remove magic word .org to reply Home peter@ibbotson.co.uk.plugh.org | I own the domain but theres no MX ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 16 Message-ID: <_UOg7.1705$96.1469@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:59:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.213.74.25 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 998488762 141.213.74.25 (Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:59:22 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:59:22 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88003 In article , Lionel wrote: >Too true. I have a religious ritual of always smoke-testing any machine >I've worked on *before* replacing the last panel for precisely this >reason. This ensures that Murphy is appeased, & will bless my >repair/upgrade/installation work. With SCSI equipped hardware, you would >normally sacrifice the goat at about the the same time & smear a drop of >the blood on some inconspicuous spot inside the case. So _that's_ what those spots in my PC case were, last time I opened it! And I thought it was spilled Loc-Tite. I suppose it also explains the crates of live chickens in our lab admin's office (university, you know. Not enough in the budget for goats). -- Sergej Roytman ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Mike Schaeffer X-X-Sender: Subject: Re: YKYGOW... In-Reply-To: <998488463.24153.0.nnrp-08.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> <20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net> <998488463.24153.0.nnrp-08.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:59:44 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-w9R/Z2DSLSODh0QzFD88dNe3WfMxrO8NrpIMlx2xsMJEVPbCwVBeU13jqLugkwsY5yZDZ2mJjo9ozcu!k0jfEMWA+8Io9Q6mAI4sNjvmA3VAQOD0Xfm8Rb06QSU5ugmGyPaFeyVKvjMTemcSpjFs6/KDCREw!cYj0u1nnqwPCejaQ/+gl X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:59:40 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lmu.de!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!eris.io.com!mschaef Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88023 On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Peter Ibbotson wrote: > > > "John Carlyle-Clarke" wrote in message > news:Xns91055C2C49203johncceuroplacercouk@192.168.1.69... > > I was once told a story - probably apocryphal - about a batch or model of > > Compaq PC many years ago where some of the components were not seated in > > their sockets properly and on some machines could cause a failure to boot. > > Supposedly, customers calling up with this model of dead machine were told > > to hold the box level about two feet off the ground and then release it. > > Much more likely to be about the Apple /// since this is well documented. Yes... but apparantly Compaq had problems with the power supply on their first generation portable. Around '86-87, I heard tell of something like 29 versions of the power supply. While I find it hard to believe that it was that hard to get it right, I guess it's possible... -Mike ###### From: William Hamblen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: <1tk7otoflts7p68g60cthhnf74bln3unq9@4ax.com> References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> <20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:01:59 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-9EjpAvhh2VPpN9bdM3BCtkyBJanV07OzVZ3V6W6iGLM6bfp6VSWlr7K8DrzytSjKv9t5ZAfB8T4tmJi!3V9IoaQchab0RGznZoRIatNTPu/ZeEQx5bcFxN8rCi1hdgRrN7ocC+44QJYW1LHIpBJgBXbm6fRg!9tivFIE= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:01:59 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!portc03.blue.aol.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88058 On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:03:46 +0000, john.cc@nospam.europlacer.co.uk (John Carlyle-Clarke) wrote: >I was once told a story - probably apocryphal - about a batch or model of >Compaq PC many years ago where some of the components were not seated in >their sockets properly and on some machines could cause a failure to boot. >Supposedly, customers calling up with this model of dead machine were told >to hold the box level about two feet off the ground and then release it. >Supposedly the shock would be just enough to seat the loose items and cause >the machine to work. Not so apocryphal if the machine was an Apple ///. The drop served to reseat ICs that crept out of their sockets. ###### Message-ID: <3B841192.EDC929BF@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> <20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:12:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.179.111.125 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc2.tx.home.com 998503926 24.179.111.125 (Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:12:06 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:12:06 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc2.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88046 John Carlyle-Clarke wrote: > > Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote in > <20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net>: > > >On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:30:47 GMT > >Brian Huntley wrote: > > > >BH> A rough rule of thumb with Sun machines is, if you're adding RAM, > >you will NOT get BH> it properly seated first time (50% probability.) If > >you install it, put the covers BH> on, screw them down, and re-cable the > >machine before booting, the odds go to 100%. > > > > Sun most definitely does not have a monopoly on this feature, > > AFAICT > >it is nearly universal. It also applies to more things than RAM (like > >almost anything in the case). > > > > I was once told a story - probably apocryphal - about a batch or model of > Compaq PC many years ago where some of the components were not seated in > their sockets properly and on some machines could cause a failure to boot. > Supposedly, customers calling up with this model of dead machine were told > to hold the box level about two feet off the ground and then release it. > Supposedly the shock would be just enough to seat the loose items and cause > the machine to work. It sounds unbelievable, but you never know. This was > related to me during a discussion about the comparative physical build > quality of various machines and their indestructability. Supposedly > Compaq's (at the time at least) could generally survive a nasty fall. > I remember when the Apollo 11 lunar module was in-route to land on the moon. The astronauts thought they were having a computer problem, so at NASA a team from MIT met to decide what to do about it. Their advice was: kick it. The MIT team was also hoping to re-seat some of the circuits that might be a little out of place... IIRC, what the computer was reporting was accurate. Kicking the computer did *not* seem to help at all. So the astronauts just disconnected the computer from flight control...and flew the lunar lander manually. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3B84121D.41E0180E@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> <20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net> <3B83D656.79070C98@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:14:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.179.111.125 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc2.tx.home.com 998504065 24.179.111.125 (Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:14:25 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:14:25 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!24.0.0.38!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc2.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88040 Tom Ayers wrote: > > There was a Seagate hard disk back in the late 80's that the head would > occasionally get stuck in the parked position. It was one of the early > "self parking" drives. A good whack to the side of the case would free > it. Of course we had a bunch of them throughout the organization. This > was a fun problem. > The way we were advised to deal with this problem: Do *not* turn off the computer...keep the disk drive spinning. If you do *not* park it, it can *not* get stuck in park position... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Lee Ayrton Subject: Re: YKYGOW... (Gaffer's tape) In-Reply-To: <9ltif1$oi9$5@bob.news.rcn.net> Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b72a447.166958552@enews.newsguy.com> <9kt960$jd6$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l3c8m$bpl$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <9l564d$828$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <30jcntg0pqpo6pr4crj893j0vqcua2dbbi@4ax.com> <9ltif1$oi9$5@bob.news.rcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Lines: 47 NNTP-Posting-Host: 8s6ucBTEY9IZs4wsZrP/tNUM/1KcsvhfuRxjXmOj X-Trace: Xz0hETVOzaqgEjZRXIv9hi8g0MVKHs+ZqvLGZ9m1mPbsxsQga1rKc72XePRLwtVa6T9ikafzfBo5!/9WAriGfy+xWHD9zdRXOJuGV3SdvcOTO5irFkdDjSDvkTctEr+GakbeiiSU5DzHMqEMfRMbeXUd4!7k1d/fNHzpIV X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@thebiz.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers to X-Abuse-Info: news-abuse@thebiz.net, otherwise we will be unable X-Abuse-Info: to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:34:53 EDT Organization: BiznessOnline.com, Inc. Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:35:03 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsmaster-01.atnet.at!atnet.at!newsrouter.chello.at!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!newspeer.cwnet.com!sjc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed1.thebiz.net!comet.connix.com!layrton Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:87883 On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > In article , > Lee Ayrton wrote: > > > > I work in the motion picture/television industry, > > Welcome and thanks for the delurking. :-) Thanks for the kind welcome. > > > ... so I use > >gaffer's tape daily. It is a tape with a strong, close-weave cloth backing > >that can be easily torn along either axis. The mastic is more stabile in > >temperature extremes than duct tape and will not leave a mastic residue. > >It is designed to *almost* never remove paint or wall paper from surfaces > >in good condition. > > How long does it stick? Under normal room temperatures? Months anyway. Perhaps a lot longer. Since almost everything I do is temporary I don't have much of a chance to test its longevity. I can relate, however, that I used it to edge the headliner in my old Malibu and it remained firmly stuck to that fabric, under Connecticut-style temperature extremes, for a couple of years. The mastic will eventually dry out if subjected to temps consistantly above 100F. > > > ... It is available in a variety of colors but the most > >often used flavors are 2" black and 1" white. The former is for sticking > >things together, the latter for labeling. A roll of good quality 2" > >gaffer's tape will cost you about $35US retail. > > Where can I buy it? Try a theatrical lighting supply house. Or you could call a local broadcast TV or cable head-end and ask where they buy theirs. Enjoy. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 23 Aug 01 09:16:00 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <9m2rb7$gbf$7@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVY+kbTX2dMQcPE1dBkNTJMIJHYSsSDjoie70ZcTCsGhY4vauuZg7zN/ X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Aug 2001 12:01:43 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-164 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88110 In article , ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) wrote: >In article <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net>, >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > > You see the adverts. You know....you guys are the ones who > > created the meanings of these words. All this time I thought > > you all were talking about hardware. > >We were. We just mean something else by "hardware" than you do. [emoticon stretches its fingers and dives in to the thread] I have a different concept of hardware. My concept involves that which stays up for a long time. Your concept is that which converts to software after every use. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 23 Aug 01 09:32:31 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <9m2sa6$gbf$10@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> <20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net> <3B83D656.79070C98@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYveSCKUclPmrG3mppl7HcIl0qu3hQ0GqqIKfp91vfN/37jJ7Eyb8/G X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Aug 2001 12:18:14 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-164 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88113 In article <3B83D656.79070C98@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com>, Tom Ayers wrote: >There was a Seagate hard disk back in the late 80's that the head would >occasionally get stuck in the parked position. It was one of the early >"self parking" drives. A good whack to the side of the case would free >it. Of course we had a bunch of them throughout the organization. This >was a fun problem. > >I would get a user, often in a semi panic state (they would get a hard >disk failure message). Of course I would ask them, "Do you have a >backup", and you can guess the response. Then I would power the >computer down, wait for the drive to spin down. WHACK! Power up and >all would be well. Of course I would then tell them "Don't try this at >home". > >It earned me a strange respect around there. That was one of the lures of TOPS-10. Everybody could know a trick that would ensure hero worship of his/her peers. Within a user community an individual would get a reputation of knowing all about a particular thing. There was so much to a -10 system that many people could become The Expert. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 23 Aug 01 09:17:56 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 17 Message-ID: <9m2rer$gbf$8@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010822202901.162e8c41.steveo@eircom.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZgxcL3Al2uqgPkhzDglPRMQh8LhNw0P/BG+yoDvBopAzRiTyljbyGc X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Aug 2001 12:03:39 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-164 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88116 In article <20010822202901.162e8c41.steveo@eircom.net>, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >On Wed, 22 Aug 01 09:50:06 GMT >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > >> You see the adverts. You know....you guys are the ones who >> created the meanings of these words. All this time I thought >> you all were talking about hardware. > > What you mean hardware like male/female couplings ferinstance. Yup. Those connections are made fast with pipe dope. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 23 Aug 01 09:23:11 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 59 Message-ID: <9m2rom$gbf$9@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> <9m09hm$b4i$10@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVa27B18YxF6d/HJ3mg9wdB00SzvDuJLcOQtk6lu86szT9coJnwwazcj X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Aug 2001 12:08:54 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-164 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88119 In article , Jim Thomas wrote: >>>>>> "/BAH" == jmfbahciv writes: > > >> In article <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, > >> jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> > >> > >Later you used FORTRAN 4, which had logical IF statements, not > >> > >just arithmetic ones: > >> > > > >> > >FORTRAN 2: IF (A-B) 30,30,50 > >> > > >> > I don't recall this construct being available. The FORTRAN-II > >> > I learned was on an IBM 1620. > >> > >> It was there. You couldn't have learned FORTRAN II > >>without learning that > >> statement. > > /BAH> I could put the expression within the parentheses? I thought > /BAH> I had to compute the expression outside the IF, assigning > /BAH> it to a variable..I think of type INTEGER..I'm sure about this. > /BAH> Then I can use the variable in the IF statement >to direct the branching. > >Maybe in FORTRANSIT for the 650 I don't think I ever used that one. > .. the form of the expression was somewhat >limited (or was that only for subscripts?). Maybe I'm confusing it all with that. > .. But by 1620 FORTRAN-II there >was definitely a full arithmetic expression allowed in there. Remember > > IF (ABS(ACTUAL - TARGET) - 0.005) 20, 20, 10 >10 PRINT 11 >11 FORMAT(12H TOO FAR OFF) > GO TO 999 >20 PRINT 21 >21 FORMAT(3H OK) >999 END Hmm...I don't remember function calls either. It is entirely possible that the computer center director outlawed that kind of program writing (he was just a tad dictatorial). > >? :-) >Jim Did you have fun writing that piece of code? I'd forgotten about the 999 statement numbering scheme. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 23 Aug 01 09:33:43 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 23 Message-ID: <9m2sce$gbf$11@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> <_UOg7.1705$96.1469@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVasFkGljbMyKlBNpJIgWPsDgXbTRr62tz7pUSFXQGIUrLbI2sEcrGGf X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Aug 2001 12:19:26 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-164 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88121 In article <_UOg7.1705$96.1469@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>, ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: >In article , >Lionel wrote: >>Too true. I have a religious ritual of always smoke-testing any machine >>I've worked on *before* replacing the last panel for precisely this >>reason. This ensures that Murphy is appeased, & will bless my >>repair/upgrade/installation work. With SCSI equipped hardware, you would >>normally sacrifice the goat at about the the same time & smear a drop of >>the blood on some inconspicuous spot inside the case. > >So _that's_ what those spots in my PC case were, last time I opened it! >And I thought it was spilled Loc-Tite. I suppose it also explains the >crates of live chickens in our lab admin's office (university, you >know. Not enough in the budget for goats). > Oh, no. They didn't purchase goats because the excuse "It ate my homework" would have validity. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 22 Aug 01 10:06:18 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 33 Message-ID: <1488.634T929T6064574@nowhere.in.particular> References: <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-313.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88155 In article <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org> jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: >The carriage tape was the same length as the printed page only if the >printer was set to 6 lines/inch. Crank the clutch knob over to 8 lpi >and the carriage tape would still advance 1/6" for each line. That's >why you would find line numbers preprinted on the carriage tapes, >allowing you to map the form designer's specs to the correct line >on the tape even if it didn't line up when placed against the page. > >I'm talking about the IBM 1403 (and similar) printers, but in the time >I've been in the computer industry I don't think that I ever saw a >carriage tape with a pitch other than 6 lpi. Perhaps this was true for IBM printers, but Univac printers moved the carriage tape in sync with the paper regardless of line spacing. You could get rolls of carriage tape (paper-covered Mylar) with either 6-lpi or 8-lpi markings. >Most shops had a policy that if an application spec sheet didn't define >all twelve channels for a carriage tape, the operators would add a hole >to each unused channel. It didn't matter where the hole was punched >as long as there was one to stop a runaway carriage when the user's >program screwed up. This was less of a problem with Univac printers, which would sense a runaway condition and stop the paper if it had moved 2 or 3 feet without encountering the desired channel. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:29:01 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 14 Message-ID: <20010822202901.162e8c41.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p600.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 998511533 86755 194.134.201.128 (22 Aug 2001 20:18:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:18:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88139 On Wed, 22 Aug 01 09:50:06 GMT jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > You see the adverts. You know....you guys are the ones who > created the meanings of these words. All this time I thought > you all were talking about hardware. What you mean hardware like male/female couplings ferinstance. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:30:01 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 11 Message-ID: <20010822203001.53356da4.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> <3b80cafa.372239913@news.shuswap.net> <998340052snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B82F2DC.AD52A4FF@ev1.net> <488.633T2604T13866345@nowhere.in.particular> NNTP-Posting-Host: p600.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 998511533 86755 194.134.201.128 (22 Aug 2001 20:18:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:18:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!195.158.233.21!news1.ebone.net!news.ebone.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88136 On 21 Aug 01 23:06:52 -0800 "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: CG> IIRC butyl mercaptan is the skunk's secret ingredient. Yep, didn't we just go round this a little while ago ? -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:41:10 -0400 References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: max2h-170.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 998509272 max2h-170.his.com (22 Aug 2001 15:41:12 -0400) Lines: 10 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.stealth.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88160 In article <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > You see the adverts. You know....you guys are the ones who > created the meanings of these words. All this time I thought > you all were talking about hardware. We were. We just mean something else by "hardware" than you do. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:41:12 -0400 References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> <9m0cnq$t28$1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: max2h-170.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 998509274 max2h-170.his.com (22 Aug 2001 15:41:14 -0400) Lines: 41 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88159 In article <9m0cnq$t28$1@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: > subset was woefully inappropriate. The "poster child" of this problem for > me (admittedly in COBOL and not FORTRAN) was a USDA program named SEMIS: > State Extension Management Information System. Since it *was* a > data base program it needed random access to large data files, but since > the COBOL standard subset didn't support direct files it simulated them > by treating them as sequential. Yup, to get to record _n_ it rewound > the file, skipped down _n-1_ records, read record _n_, and rewound again. COBOL had a standard random-I/O facility, though. It just wasn't clear as to whether Record #0 or Record #1 was the first one in a file. So if you ignored the existence of a possible Record #0 and assumed #1 was first, it would behave quite nicely. I missed out on SEMIS and the USDA procurement -- I was busy with, IIRC, US Bureau of Reclamation or Army's PERSINSCOM at the time. (Circa 1972-73, I wasn't around for the preceding procurement exercise.) > (Yes, programs that knew how to manipulate the internal control blocks > of the system could do their own binding, but this was almost never > done except by system utilities.) They couldn't create a new file from inside a program, though. MAJOR bummer when I was working on online systems development. Argh. > Another nitpick: a compiler wouldn't be likely to issue any > error message with an IEH prefix; that's the prefix assigned to > system utilities. I'm sure that you recall everybody's favorite > APAR generator, officially known as IEHMOVE? Yeah. What were the Fortran error prefixes? Were they shared with PL/I with IEW for warning and IEF for fatal, or something like that? I hated them then and I still remember hating them. Edward ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:41:13 -0400 References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: max2h-170.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 998509276 max2h-170.his.com (22 Aug 2001 15:41:16 -0400) Lines: 43 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88162 In article , ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: > Uh, OK, so this was an electro-mechanical thing, right? An endless > loop of punched tape which was synchronized with the paper, and the > punches in which corresponded to significant places in the paper (top- > of-form, bottom of the page, etc.)? How often did this thing wear out? And the printer had a clutch, so you'd clutch the printer paper and manually position it at top-of-page (a Magic Marker mark on the side of the carriage, often enough), then push the T-O-P (Top of Page) button a few times so the tape knew /it/ was at the top, and then de-clutch the printer tractors. Simple, easy, often worked right. Th etape was made either of a hard paper that would last maybe a month, or Mylar, which was very expensive but lasted several times as long. Our shop only bought the Mylar tapes a few times. A lot of our work was special customer-defined forms, small paper, tractor-pulled special materials, and the "customers" (other branches of the university) would submit their card deck, a data tape, a box of special forms, AND a special carriage control tape. Woe betide the operator who ran the job on the special forms and only noticed afterward that there had been a carriage tape in the box, too. > My experience with Fortran control characters happened when I was > finishing my undergrad days. We still had a 370-esque dino running MTS > in those days, but most work happened on the Suns. Since I was about > to graduate, I decided to burn all my MTS funny-money by printing out > the _Hackers' Dictionary_ on green-bar paper. This is when I noticed > that strange things happened when there was a small integer in col. 1. > There was something that caused indenting, as I recall, so I guess that > this must have come after the days of a physical tape loop? I think esr used leading characters to denote where major and minor entries were. On a screen, this would mean "start a new screen when beginning here," which was useful. On a printout, of course, that would create problems. I never looked at the internal format of the TNHD files, but I think he was, as you say, basically re-using those meta-characters in ways that no longer made sense to the old interpretation. Oopsies. It's online all over the net, anyway. GREAT resource. Thanks, Eric. (Now give me credit for "backronym"!) -- Edward ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:41:15 -0400 References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: max2h-170.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 998509277 max2h-170.his.com (22 Aug 2001 15:41:17 -0400) Lines: 39 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!Quza.UK.peer!nntp.gblx.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88161 In article <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: > The carriage tape was the same length as the printed page only if the > printer was set to 6 lines/inch. Crank the clutch knob over to 8 lpi > and the carriage tape would still advance 1/6" for each line. That's > why you would find line numbers preprinted on the carriage tapes, allowing > you to map the form designer's specs to the correct line on the tape > even if it didn't line up when placed against the page. > > I'm talking about the IBM 1403 (and similar) printers, but in the time > I've been in the computer industry I don't think that I ever saw a > carriage tape with a pitch other than 6 lpi. We had them. Some jobs, like student transcripts, required precise registration and tight spacing, and we used 88-lines-per-page and an 88-line carriage tape. Since, as you note, the tape moved 1/6 inch per line, this meant we had an over-length tape. If you'll recall with me, on the 1403 you loosened one pulley attachment and brought it toward the other a little, to remove and replace a carriage tape. That pulley was actually adjustable fairly far out -- at least 8/6ths of 11 half-inches, and probably a fair bit further than that. And the carriage tapes as supplied to us (don't know who made them -- some came from IBM, I'm sure) were 88 or more lines long. For normal 66-line use, we had to cut the tapes before glueing the ends together. (Hmmm, did we glue them? Tape them? I remember the process required a little practice.) > Most shops had a policy that if an application spec sheet didn't define > all twelve channels for a carriage tape, the operators would add a hole > to each unused channel. It didn't matter where the hole was punched > as long as there was one to stop a runaway carriage when the user's > program screwed up. But that'd take all the fun out of it! Edward ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 22 Aug 2001 14:34:18 -0600 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 23 Message-ID: <1bae0rj0l1.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> <20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net> <3B841192.EDC929BF@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 998512455 18595 128.123.64.113 (22 Aug 2001 20:34:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Aug 2001 20:34:15 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88090 Charles Richmond writes: > > > I remember when the Apollo 11 lunar module was in-route to land on the moon. > The astronauts thought they were having a computer problem, so at NASA a > team from MIT met to decide what to do about it. Their advice was: > kick it. > The MIT team was also hoping to re-seat some of the circuits that might be > a little out of place... IIRC, what the computer was reporting was accurate. > Kicking the computer did *not* seem to help at all. So the astronauts > just > disconnected the computer from flight control...and flew the lunar > lander > manually. I hadn't heard the ``kick it'' story -- but on lunar descent, the computer wasn't able to keep up with the rate events were happening, and kept resetting. Whether to let them come down, or order an abort, was a very near thing... -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer SWNMRSEF: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> Organization: Daedalus Consulting X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Lines: 42 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:33:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.144.16 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tsnz.net X-Trace: news02.tsnz.net 998515980 203.96.144.16 (Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:33:00 NZST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:33:00 NZST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.germany.net!newsfeed.icl.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!intgwlon.nntp.telstra.net!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news02.tsnz.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88127 In article , Sergej Roytman wrote: >In article , Edward Rice wrote: >>It was meaningful for the original hardware for which it was intended -- a >>machine that had four or six or eight "channels" on a tape that moved over >>two pulleys, which a read-head that knew when there was a punch in any >>channel. That leading "1" meant "skip to the next hole in channel 1," just >>as a "2" meant "skip to the next hole in channel 2." This was typically >>employed by using "1" to match the control tape to the top of the printer >>page (the tape was, mirabile dictu, the same length as the printed page, or >>the same length as a page of checks, or the same length as a page of >>library card forms, etc.); "2" to mean "top of page or half page" by >>putting two equidistant punches in channel 2; etc. As more channels became >>available, casual conventions (nothing like standards!) included "top of >>page" and "last line on page" (to put page numbering onto pages rapidly >>without having to move down the page counting one line at a time). > >Uh, OK, so this was an electro-mechanical thing, right? An endless >loop of punched tape which was synchronized with the paper, and the >punches in which corresponded to significant places in the paper (top- >of-form, bottom of the page, etc.)? How often did this thing wear out? Often enough. Later there were electronic equivalents, where you downloaded the loop contents to the printer. I got to do battle with these (Dataproducts BP1500s) about a year ago, printing output from some dinosaur somewhere (it was a (9 track) tape to print system at a print shop, banging out huge volumes of multipart stationary). They had physical tape readers as well. You should realise that mainframe line printer drivers tend to send complete lines to the printer; thus a blank line involved sending a full 132 characters plus carriage control, hence the behaviour of setting what lines should be printed where in the loop. This feels odd to anyone used to character printers and LF/FF style carriage control, but makes sense when you consider the meaning of the term "line printer". BTW, each channel could be punched multiple times, so if you punched a particular channel for every third line, you could use it for triple spaced output. Thus you could print several different forms with the same loop, if you held your mouth right. -- don ###### From: "GerardS" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Lines: 50 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:46:16 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.149.16.201 X-Trace: newsfeed.slurp.net 998516778 208.149.16.201 (Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:46:18 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:46:18 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.slurp.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88145 | Don Stokes wrote: |> Sergej Roytman wrote: |>> Edward Rice wrote: |>>It was meaningful for the original hardware for which it was intended -- a |>>machine that had four or six or eight "channels" on a tape that moved over |>>two pulleys, which a read-head that knew when there was a punch in any |>>channel. That leading "1" meant "skip to the next hole in channel 1," just |>>as a "2" meant "skip to the next hole in channel 2." This was typically |>>employed by using "1" to match the control tape to the top of the printer |>>page (the tape was, mirabile dictu, the same length as the printed page, or |>>the same length as a page of checks, or the same length as a page of |>>library card forms, etc.); "2" to mean "top of page or half page" by |>>putting two equidistant punches in channel 2; etc. As more channels became |>>available, casual conventions (nothing like standards!) included "top of |>>page" and "last line on page" (to put page numbering onto pages rapidly |>>without having to move down the page counting one line at a time). |> |>Uh, OK, so this was an electro-mechanical thing, right? An endless |>loop of punched tape which was synchronized with the paper, and the |>punches in which corresponded to significant places in the paper (top- |>of-form, bottom of the page, etc.)? How often did this thing wear out? | | Often enough. Later there were electronic equivalents, where you | downloaded the loop contents to the printer. I got to do battle with | these (Dataproducts BP1500s) about a year ago, printing output from some | dinosaur somewhere (it was a (9 track) tape to print system at a print | shop, banging out huge volumes of multipart stationary). They had | physical tape readers as well. | | You should realise that mainframe line printer drivers tend to send | complete lines to the printer; thus a blank line involved sending a full | 132 characters plus carriage control, hence the behaviour of setting No, you didn't have to send 132 blanks (or whatever), the trailing blanks were unnecessary. Just a printer control character was needed. I don't ever remembering sending 132 blanks to print a blank line. If HASP or VM was in control of the spooling, then trailing blanks were deleted before putting them on the spool. ---Gerard S. | what lines should be printed where in the loop. This feels odd to | anyone used to character printers and LF/FF style carriage control, but | makes sense when you consider the meaning of the term "line printer". | | BTW, each channel could be punched multiple times, so if you punched a | particular channel for every third line, you could use it for triple | spaced output. Thus you could print several different forms with the | same loop, if you held your mouth right. ###### Message-ID: <3B843AA6.38C1@indyx.net> From: freddy1X Reply-To: freddy1X Organization: IndyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04C-IndyNet (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 33 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:05:10 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.183.70.81 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onemain.com X-Trace: nntp1.onemain.com 998525247 209.183.70.81 (Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:07:27 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:07:27 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!nntp1.onemain.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88183 Edward Rice wrote: That pulley was actually > adjustable fairly far out -- at least 8/6ths of 11 half-inches, and > probably a fair bit further than that. And the carriage tapes as supplied > to us (don't know who made them -- some came from IBM, I'm sure) were 88 or > more lines long. For normal 66-line use, we had to cut the tapes before > glueing the ends together. (Hmmm, did we glue them? Tape them? I > remember the process required a little practice.) The few paper tapes that I have dealt with came in a kit consisting of one length of heavy tape and plastic tape "patches" to join the ends. The patches were "lace" punched and self adhesive, and the only tricky part was lining up the patch and tape drive holes, and the loose ends, all at the same time. Most of the other printers that I had to work with used a rotary switch( Dataproducts ) for form length. There were about 10 preset position, and maybe one you could custom program with jumpers. The Datapoint printers simulated the paper tape through a tiny plastic chain, the links spliceable to any desired form length function. One or more links were added with a extra bit sticking up to flag the stop point. -- keep away from heat or open flame /\>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\/ /\ I may be demented \/ /\ but I'm not crazy! \/ /\<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<\/ * SPAyM trap: there is no X in my address * || attatch FLAME here || \/ \/ X ###### Message-ID: <3B846698.BE7A25D9@yahoo.com> From: CBFalconer Reply-To: cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net Organization: Ched Research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org> <3B843AA6.38C1@indyx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 38 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 02:20:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.90.168.137 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 998533237 12.90.168.137 (Thu, 23 Aug 2001 02:20:37 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 02:20:37 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!skynet.be!skynet.be!news.stealth.net!204.127.161.2.MISMATCH!wn2feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88082 freddy1X wrote: > > Edward Rice wrote: > > That pulley was actually > > adjustable fairly far out -- at least 8/6ths of 11 half-inches, and > > probably a fair bit further than that. And the carriage tapes as supplied > > to us (don't know who made them -- some came from IBM, I'm sure) were 88 or > > more lines long. For normal 66-line use, we had to cut the tapes before > > glueing the ends together. (Hmmm, did we glue them? Tape them? I > > remember the process required a little practice.) > > The few paper tapes that I have dealt with came in a kit consisting of > one length of heavy tape and plastic tape "patches" to join the ends. > The patches were "lace" punched and self adhesive, and the only tricky > part was lining up the patch and tape drive holes, and the loose ends, > all at the same time. > > Most of the other printers that I had to work with used a rotary switch( > Dataproducts ) for form length. There were about 10 preset position, > and maybe one you could custom program with jumpers. The Datapoint > printers simulated the paper tape through a tiny plastic chain, the > links spliceable to any desired form length function. One or more links > were added with a extra bit sticking up to flag the stop point. Somebody forgot to order those splicing tapes, and the CC tape got chewed up. We had a master for copying purposes only, but having made a bunch of copies we had to splice them. Rubber cement lasted an hour or so. Elmers glue took a while to dry, and then the result was stiff and wouldn't feed. I think we eventually got going with Scotch tape bits on the edges after the rubber cement. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net) (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) mailto:uce@ftc.gov (for spambots to harvest) ###### Message-ID: <3B847155.430A36CB@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org> <1488.634T929T6064574@nowhere.in.particular> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 03:08:42 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.124.172 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 998536122 168.191.124.172 (Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:08:42 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:08:42 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:05:21 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88092 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > Perhaps this was true for IBM printers, but Univac printers moved > the carriage tape in sync with the paper regardless of line spacing. > You could get rolls of carriage tape (paper-covered Mylar) with > either 6-lpi or 8-lpi markings. To change the topic slightly (this is a.f.c) back in the late 60's I dealt with a "high speed" Univac drum printer connected to an 1108. I recall being told that it was a 5000 lpm printer. I mentioned this in a.f.c a few years ago and was told there was never a drum printer this fast. I don't know but in my minds eye (that very precise measuring instrument :-) I can stand in front of that printer and watch it print a reasonably full page in under a second. At one second a page and 60 lines per page that's at least 3600 lpm. I have a Univac 1108 operator's manual at home which shows a printer which looks like this one but it doesn't quote the print speed. There could also have been more than one speed version. Unfortunately as usual I'm not home now and so cannot look up the part number. This unit had its own small MG set and a rack sized "controller" in addition to the printer itself. This unit was "pushing" the speed technology as the print quality was poor (it was not unusual for a letter to be off an entire row) and it jammed a lot. I always tried to get my output routed to one of the two 1004's which were also connected to this 1108. They ran at a more "respectable" speed, IIRC 400 or 600 lpm. Any thoughts?? Chris AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:24:13 -0500 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZiWgpryZcCy2z+oDadbI1N2oXHIHW90Vnz9Vzr4pkk0quHsOeFBnPH X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Aug 2001 06:24:21 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88181 On 22 Aug 2001 14:15:27 -1000, Jim Thomas wrote: >Ummm, no, the tape was not at a 1:1 scale for 8LPI. The same tape was used >for 6LPI and 8LPI. The sprocket holes did not change! If you'll think >back a bit, you may even remember that a single tape was usually used for 2 >sheets of paper, i.e., it had two channel 1 punches, two channel 9 punches >(often used for footers), and two channel 12 punches (end of page), each 66 >lines away from its pair. IIRC the normal tapes were 132 lines long so >they did two 6LPI sheets or 1 8LPI sheet, or multiple checks or card stock Ummm, I don't think so: (66*2)<>88. Doing tapes 2-up makes them last longer. >form "pages". They were normally glued though scotch tape did work for a >while before it gummed up the brushes. (Again, all this is IBM 1403-3/6/N1 >printers. Data Products/Analex printers for DEC systems were different.) -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:34:11 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> <998521617snz@dsl.co.uk> User-Agent: tin/1.5.8-20010221 ("Blue Water") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!feed.textport.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88148 Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: >> reason. This ensures that Murphy is appeased, & will bless my >> repair/upgrade/installation work. With SCSI equipped hardware, you would >> normally sacrifice the goat at about the the same time & smear a drop of >> the blood on some inconspicuous spot inside the case. > > "Sure and wasn't Murphy always the optimist?" > Goat's blood? Bah. Every time I've fitted an S-Bus card into a Sun I've left some of my own claret inside there. Appalling machines to work on, early S-Bus sparcs. Of course, now there's PCI in there they're virtually just PCs anyway :) > than lying on top of the PCI connector. Now this particular batch of > computers from Evesham suffers from an inanity, in that they've installed Never a manufacturer I've liked. For boxshifters, I've always rated Dan. pete ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW.... Date: 22 Aug 01 14:03:41 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 32 Message-ID: <1362.634T2083T8435224@nowhere.in.particular> References: <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-434.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!newsfeed.nyc.globix.net!newsfeed.sjc.globix.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88156 In article ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) writes: >In article <3b77411c.111852070@news.shuswap.net>, >genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) wrote: > > > -> reading the announcement when the University of British Columbia > > Computing Centre upgraded their mainframe's memory from four to > > EIGHT megabytes. > >You or I, anyway) remember the announcement that sent ripples through >the university computing community, saying that the smaller of our two >1401's would be upgraded to 16K (of 6-bit characters) and have a disc >drive (2314? about 20-megabytes) added to it, in order to allow for >online storage of user library decks and their inclusion in their >input streams when they $-included them in their job decks for the >7094. I'm in the middle. I was at UBC when they replaced their 7044 with a 360/67 - and then later added a second CPU, a fourth core box (to go from 768K to 1M), and a second drum. Then I went out to the Real World [tm] and tried to figure out what we'd do with all that extra memory when we upgraded our Univac 9300 from 16K to 32K, and added a pair of 8411 drives (2311 clones) to our until-then card-only system. (Replacing the '11s with '14s soon afterwards gave us much more breathing room on the disk packs.) -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW.... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:41:16 -0400 References: <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: max2h-170.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 998509278 max2h-170.his.com (22 Aug 2001 15:41:18 -0400) Lines: 34 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88163 In article <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com>, Alexandre Pechtchanski wrote: > >- you remember the joy of 9600 bps...ah that was high speed !!! > ^^^^ > YSTM 1200. HTH. ITYRM 300b. (And I know two people here, maybe more, who can discourse at length about the joys of moving up to 110 baud.) In article <3b77411c.111852070@news.shuswap.net>, genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) wrote: > -> reading the announcement when the University of British Columbia > Computing Centre upgraded their mainframe's memory from four to EIGHT > megabytes. You or I, anyway) remember the announcement that sent ripples through the university computing community, saying that the smaller of our two 1401's would be upgraded to 16K (of 6-bit characters) and have a disc drive (2314? about 20-megabytes) added to it, in order to allow for online storage of user library decks and their inclusion in their input streams when they $-included them in their job decks for the 7094. > -> Datapac (or some other packet switching system). There was only one packet-switched network, they didn't charge for use, the TIPs and IMPs had no passwords, and you needed some vague sort of government connection in order to use it legally. All else is a newfangled modification. Edward ###### From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW.... Date: 22 Aug 2001 14:51:03 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 998527863 15173 128.171.80.135 (23 Aug 2001 00:51:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Aug 2001 00:51:03 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88165 >>>>> "Edward" == Edward Rice writes: Edward> You or I, anyway) remember the announcement that sent ripples Edward> through the university computing community, saying that the Edward> smaller of our two 1401's would be upgraded to 16K (of 6-bit Edward> characters) and have a disc drive (2314? about 20-megabytes) Edward> added to it, in order to allow for online storage of user library Edward> decks and their inclusion in their input streams when they Edward> $-included them in their job decks for the 7094. Umm, 16K was right, but the disk was a 1311 and it held 2M characters :-) If it was only an input unit for a 7094, 4K should have been plenty, even with the disk drive :-) Jim ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW.... Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:02:28 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <998553748snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 998555930 mail2news:16125 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!newspeer.highwayone.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88187 In article ehrice@his.com "Edward Rice" writes: > In article <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com>, > Alexandre Pechtchanski wrote: > > > >- you remember the joy of 9600 bps...ah that was high speed !!! > > ^^^^ > > YSTM 1200. HTH. > > ITYRM 300b. (And I know two people here, maybe more, who can discourse at > length about the joys of moving up to 110 baud.) Please sir, that's me sir! Although there was no greater throughput, in the sense that a Creed 75 with five-unit code also ran at the 10 ch/s of an ASR33. (I suppose one might argue that having 64 printable characters without the necessity for intervening LS & FS symbols did actually provide slightly greater entropy.) -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW.... Date: 23 Aug 2001 15:19:08 GMT Organization: A small notepad underneath my in box Lines: 11 Message-ID: <9m36tc$bip$2@news.panix.com> References: <3B7DC201.29E06F61@rcsri.org> <9llib5$nbq$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <9lljuc$5o0$1@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix1.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 998579948 11865 166.84.1.1 (23 Aug 2001 15:19:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Aug 2001 15:19:08 GMT X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88100 In article <9lljuc$5o0$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, David Scheidt wrote: >Quiet machine rooms are disturbing. Particularly when everything stops all >at once. Billion whirring fans stopping all at once makes a lot of noise! I've only notice the fan on my laptop twice. Once when it turns on, and once when it stops. -- "I'd love to go out with you, but there are important world issues that need worrying about." ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 25 Aug 01 09:12:27 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <9m83t5$ntu$8@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010822202901.162e8c41.steveo@eircom.net> <9m2rer$gbf$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZ6UtgxZyvC404gon01c6LXF5Os73JG2jQsVGechr2QGUoWKJd5mGru X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Aug 2001 11:58:29 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-184 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88250 In article <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) writes: >> >> First, sex. Now, drugs get dragged in. What's next? > >Rock and roll, of course. I couldn't think of a line that had a double meaning for that one. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 25 Aug 01 09:10:55 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: <9m83q9$ntu$7@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010822202901.162e8c41.steveo@eircom.net> <9m2rer$gbf$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVazgsZPg7FznukMJsXnJJygD99Q/Zlv7fwYZ+eceK790/VxlMFuFIil X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Aug 2001 11:56:57 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!nntp.cs.uni-magdeburg.de!RRZ.Uni-Koeln.DE!news.netcologne.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-184 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88251 In article <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net>, genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >>In article <20010822202901.162e8c41.steveo@eircom.net>, >> Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >>>On Wed, 22 Aug 01 09:50:06 GMT >>>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >>>> You see the adverts. You know....you guys are the ones who >>>> created the meanings of these words. All this time I thought >>>> you all were talking about hardware. >>> >>> What you mean hardware like male/female couplings ferinstance. >> >>Yup. Those connections are made fast with pipe dope. > > First, sex. Now, drugs get dragged in. What's next? Rock and roll? I thought about adding a disclaimer to the newsgroup archaeologist of 2102 that we, or rather, I was talking about a career dedicated to water dilivery systems. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 25 Aug 01 09:25:16 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 15 Message-ID: <9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbBh/Rn8GwMKSh46mC7rJ511ynHYdUGcZgpxRDYLa46Ox6FznWr22xA X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Aug 2001 12:11:18 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!news.stealth.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-184 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88260 In article <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >In article <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: > >>You see the adverts. You know....you guys are the ones who >>created the meanings of these words. All this time I thought >>you all were talking about hardware. > >They were, until you changed the subject :) _I_ changed the subject!!!!? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 25 Aug 01 09:24:33 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 53 Message-ID: <9m84js$ntu$9@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lk3fi$62n$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6c84$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbvjfHCOlpILiUdLqWQXGftVGytxOwrFpKI07FMOX8tVlDx+ArZqCv8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Aug 2001 12:10:36 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-184 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88265 In article , Pete Fenelon wrote: >Prof. Richard E. Hawkins wrote: >> In the UK at least the best thing to do is to avoid anywhere like B&Q, >> Homebase, Do-it-all etc. (i.e. stores aimed >>at the home DIY'er). Instead, >> it is much better to visit trade outlets on >>industrial estates or business >> parks. I have discovered that not only are >>these places cheaper and much >> better stocked, they are also less busy and >>furthermore the staff there are >> usually very knowledgeable and very helpful >>and patient with idiots like me >> who say things like, "OK, I need one of those >>thingys. Can you tell me the >> best one? What else do you think I'll need?". >>None of these things are >> true in B&Q. > >Two points: > > Fry and Laurie's "Flushed Grollings" sketch. > >and > > The greatest shop in the world - Barnitt's in York. Is that the York across the pond? >It actually >seems to have fractal geometry (you can never be quite sure which >floor or indeed which building you end up in), But can you find your way out? It sounds like the Mill when Digital used to be DEC. > ... and has everything from >that one missing washer to a complete new bathroom suite, and staff >who know *exactly* what you're after. Marvellous, and infinitely more >browser-friendly than trade places. Oh, and they have a nice selection >of Gerber, SOG, Leatherman and Victorinox too. What more can you want >on a Saturday? Are they sex-blind? About 50% of those guys (usually the younger ones) have a condescending attitude that makes me want to spit fire. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:53:12 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <998556792snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B846698.BE7A25D9@yahoo.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 998609885 mail2news:22965 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 29 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88399 In article <3B846698.BE7A25D9@yahoo.com> cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net "CBFalconer" writes: > Somebody forgot to order those splicing tapes, and the CC tape got > chewed up. We had a master for copying purposes only, but having > made a bunch of copies we had to splice them. Rubber cement lasted > an hour or so. Elmers glue took a while to dry, and then the > result was stiff and wouldn't feed. I think we eventually got > going with Scotch tape bits on the edges after the rubber cement. I remember a printer (not a line printer) that had a CC tape; made by either Anadex or Analex, IIRC. The tapes on that were definitely some plastic, presumably Mylar. (I think the printer was actually French; this would be ca. 1978) IIRC (and am not conflating it with something else), the splicing operation involved abrading the overlapping ends of the tape and using the PVA cement that's used for plastic drainpipes (that partially dissolves the plastic pipe itself, leading effectively to a weld). One had to carry out the abrading process with some precision, lest the welded joint be too much thicker and thus inflexible than the rest. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:18:24 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 18 Message-ID: <20010823191824.600c6562.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m2rb7$gbf$7@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1008.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 998614872 84866 194.134.202.245 (24 Aug 2001 01:01:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:01:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88312 On Thu, 23 Aug 01 09:16:00 GMT jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > I have a different concept of hardware. My concept involves > that which stays up for a long time. Your concept is that which Hmm three of sand and one of CeMeNT(1). > converts to software after every use. Too much pipe dope ? 1: OK so none of these three stays up for a long time, it must be the sand. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 23 Aug 2001 14:21:02 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 998612463 9652 128.171.80.135 (24 Aug 2001 00:21:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Aug 2001 00:21:03 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88361 >>>>> "Arargh!" == Arargh! writes: Arargh!> On 22 Aug 2001 14:15:27 -1000, Jim Thomas Arargh!> wrote: >> IIRC the normal tapes were 132 lines long so >> they did two 6LPI sheets or 1 8LPI sheet, or multiple checks or card stock Arargh!> Ummm, I don't think so: (66*2)<>88. No, 66*2 = 132 > 88 so the tape was cut at 88 lines for 8LPI. Arargh!> Doing tapes 2-up makes them last longer. Yup. Jim ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:13:38 -0500 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVY6v70U12Au3cWFmWpRYeWyf6AfZ+av+YLdf6RO4Q+VKfwuJZFOUz2Q X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Aug 2001 01:13:52 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88400 On 23 Aug 2001 14:21:02 -1000, Jim Thomas wrote: >>>>>> "Arargh!" == Arargh! writes: > > Arargh!> On 22 Aug 2001 14:15:27 -1000, Jim Thomas > Arargh!> wrote: > > >> IIRC the normal tapes were 132 lines long so > >> they did two 6LPI sheets or 1 8LPI sheet, or multiple checks or card stock > > Arargh!> Ummm, I don't think so: (66*2)<>88. > >No, 66*2 = 132 > 88 so the tape was cut at 88 lines for 8LPI. Ah, now that makes sense. The original sentence implied that ONE tape did both. Hence my comment. > > Arargh!> Doing tapes 2-up makes them last longer. > >Yup. > >Jim -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:16:34 -0500 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m2rb7$gbf$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010823191824.600c6562.steveo@eircom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaLGv7gOlhPlz9MbHOhZcWRVW/JecVSPJnYQ6Jp2yJU7LEZNyiW/M+y X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Aug 2001 01:16:47 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88407 On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:18:24 +0200, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >On Thu, 23 Aug 01 09:16:00 GMT >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> I have a different concept of hardware. My concept involves >> that which stays up for a long time. Your concept is that which > > Hmm three of sand and one of CeMeNT(1). > >> converts to software after every use. > > Too much pipe dope ? > >1: OK so none of these three stays up for a long time, it must be the sand. Was (1) a reference to: http://www.geocities.com/rcwoolley/ by any chance ? -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:13:43 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 12 Message-ID: <20010824081343.06bf1d91.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m2rb7$gbf$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010823191824.600c6562.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p055.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 998672411 46591 194.134.200.55 (24 Aug 2001 17:00:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:00:11 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.flash.net!easynews!news-xfer.siscom.net!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88325 On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:16:34 -0500 Arargh! wrote: > Was (1) a reference to: http://www.geocities.com/rcwoolley/ by any > chance ? I see you're awake. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: Mike K Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:58:24 +0100 Organization: Sun Microsystems Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3B864F70.E3A34B86@uk.sun.com> References: <3B846698.BE7A25D9@yahoo.com> <998556792snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: volga.uk.sun.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: new-usenet.uk.sun.com 998657904 20735 129.156.144.129 (24 Aug 2001 12:58:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@new-usenet.uk.sun.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Aug 2001 12:58:24 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76C-CCK-MCD Netscape [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!carbon.eu.sun.com!new-usenet.uk.sun.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88199 Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: [ Description of Mylar carriage-control tapes deleted ] > I remember a printer (not a line printer) that had a CC tape; made by > either Anadex or Analex, IIRC. The tapes on that were definitely some > plastic, presumably Mylar. (I think the printer was actually French; > this would be ca. 1978) Was it made by Logabax by any chance? I worked at a place which bought one of these in 1978. The printer was upper-case only, dot matrix, but used CC tapes. Ours was connected to a HP 9830 desktop computer (BASIC only, 32 character LED display, cassette tape storage). Mike ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 24 Aug 2001 13:35:26 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 88 Message-ID: <9m5l6u$mld$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> <9m0cnq$t28$1@top.mitre.org> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 998660126 23213 128.29.251.13 (24 Aug 2001 13:35:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Aug 2001 13:35:26 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88209 ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) writes: >jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: > > subset was woefully inappropriate. The "poster child" of this problem >for > > me (admittedly in COBOL and not FORTRAN) was a USDA program named SEMIS: > > State Extension Management Information System. Since it *was* a > > data base program it needed random access to large data files, but since > > the COBOL standard subset didn't support direct files it simulated them > > by treating them as sequential. Yup, to get to record _n_ it rewound > > the file, skipped down _n-1_ records, read record _n_, and rewound >again. >COBOL had a standard random-I/O facility, though. COBOL had that facility, but the standard COBOL *subset* didn't. That was the problem according to the staffers who were working on the problems caused by SEMIS in our shop. >I missed out on SEMIS and the USDA procurement -- I was busy with, IIRC, US >Bureau of Reclamation or Army's PERSINSCOM at the time. (Circa 1972-73, I >wasn't around for the preceding procurement exercise.) My brush with SEMIS would have been late 1968 +/- a year. I've got a last-possible-date of late 1969 since that's when my shop got rid of its 360/40. > > (Yes, programs that knew how to manipulate the internal control blocks > > of the system could do their own binding, but this was almost never > > done except by system utilities.) >They couldn't create a new file from inside a program, though. MAJOR >bummer when I was working on online systems development. Argh. Um...that depends on how far down into the control blocks you want to go; suitable diddling with the JFCB contents (and perhaps {shudder} the TIOT as well) could work magic. IEHMOVE is an example of this; it could create new data sets on any DASD volume as long as you had at least one placeholder DDcard that pointed to that disk. > > Another nitpick: a compiler wouldn't be likely to issue any > > error message with an IEH prefix; that's the prefix assigned to > > system utilities. I'm sure that you recall everybody's favorite > > APAR generator, officially known as IEHMOVE? >Yeah. What were the Fortran error prefixes? Were they shared with PL/I >with IEW for warning and IEF for fatal, or something like that? I hated >them then and I still remember hating them. Nope. The three-letter prefixes were bound to components, not the problem or status that the message conveys. With a few exceptions the OS/360 error messages could be parsed as follows: * 3 letters to identify the component that issued the message * 3 hex digits which with the 3 letter prefix creates a unique error message number * 1 letter to identify the severity. * Some amount of text to describe the problem Prefixes for some frequently-encountered messages include: IEA - input/output supervisor IEF - job scheduler IEK - FORTRAN H compiler IEM - PL/I compiler IEU - Assembler F IEW - link editor IEY - FORTRAN G compiler IFB - CPU error recovery IHC - FORTRAN run-time library and the severity indicator might be A - operator action required D - operator decision required E - error message W - CPU failure; system placed in disabled wait So, to use what might be called the most severe message possible: IFBF05W MACHINE ERROR, RELOAD OS/360 parses to /IFB/ /F05/ /W/ Joe Morris ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:04:05 GMT Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net Message-ID: <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010822202901.162e8c41.steveo@eircom.net> <9m2rer$gbf$8@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm3-14.shuswap.net X-Trace: 24 Aug 2001 09:20:48 -0700, salmonarm3-14.shuswap.net Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.best.com!feed.textport.net!news.bnb-lp.com!nubby2.!salmonarm3-14.shuswap.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88295 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >In article <20010822202901.162e8c41.steveo@eircom.net>, > Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >>On Wed, 22 Aug 01 09:50:06 GMT >>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>> You see the adverts. You know....you guys are the ones who >>> created the meanings of these words. All this time I thought >>> you all were talking about hardware. >> >> What you mean hardware like male/female couplings ferinstance. > >Yup. Those connections are made fast with pipe dope. First, sex. Now, drugs get dragged in. What's next? Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 24 Aug 2001 10:47:05 -0600 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 10 Message-ID: <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010822202901.162e8c41.steveo@eircom.net> <9m2rer$gbf$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 998671621 488 128.123.64.113 (24 Aug 2001 16:47:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Aug 2001 16:47:01 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88204 genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) writes: > > First, sex. Now, drugs get dragged in. What's next? Rock and roll, of course. -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer SWNMRSEF: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9m2rer$gbf$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 15 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:51:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.213.74.25 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 998675496 141.213.74.25 (Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:51:36 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:51:36 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88340 In article <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) writes: >> First, sex. Now, drugs get dragged in. What's next? > >Rock and roll, of course. Damn. Beat me to it. So, what about them walking disk drives I've heard about, anyway? Are they a myth invented for the benefit of us credulous young'uns, or did such a thing actually exist? -- Sergej Roytman ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 24 Aug 2001 12:17:09 -0600 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 16 Message-ID: <1bk7zt4922.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9m2rer$gbf$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 998677025 10307 128.123.64.113 (24 Aug 2001 18:17:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Aug 2001 18:17:05 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88206 ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) writes: > > So, what about them walking disk drives I've heard about, anyway? Are > they a myth invented for the benefit of us credulous young'uns, or did > such a thing actually exist? I've seen it. A big ol' disk drive (sorry, I don't remember which model) on a VAX 11/780. It was the day I learned about working in column-major on an array laid out in row-major, where the array was bigger than the physical memory size of the computer. The drive started moving... -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer SWNMRSEF: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 24 Aug 2001 19:43:41 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 16 Message-ID: <9m6apd$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88249 In article <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >But, But, BUT! All the advertisements show pretty dressed-up >women using them to screw anything. That's odd. There's a bigger market for pretty undressed women who do it themselves :) hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 24 Aug 2001 19:44:35 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 15 Message-ID: <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88237 In article <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >You see the adverts. You know....you guys are the ones who >created the meanings of these words. All this time I thought >you all were talking about hardware. They were, until you changed the subject :) hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 24 Aug 2001 20:08:36 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 54 Message-ID: <9m6c84$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lk3fi$62n$1@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88223 dscheidt@tumbolia.com (David Scheidt) wrote in <9lk3fi$62n$1@bob.news.rcn.net>: >Jose Pina Coelho wrote: >: wrote in message >I had a lovely hardware store experience today. We needed a woodruf key >for a VW Bug generator. (A woodruf key is a half moon shaped thing that >keeps something from spining on a shaft.) We walked into the store >carrying the genny, and were immediatly intercepted by an employee who >said "Uhoh, what do we need?" I explained we needed a "little half moon >key thingee." He led us to the back where the random bits of hardware >are, and found us the one we needed. Hardware stores are worth looking >around for the best, as there's a lot of variation in them, the bad ones >are awful, the good ones are quite good. If you find an employee that's >knowledgable and helpful, go back there, and tell the managment about >that guy. Smaller stores are frequently better. I'll trade the higher prices for someone who can tell me what I need. And in the small towns where I've been these last few years, they can be spectacular. I stopped going to sears hardware when I had to explain what a monkey wrench was to the teenager in hardware. [To put this in perspective, almost all of the hardware purchased by my family for three generations had been Craftsman . . .] Leaving Iowa a year ago, my uhaul hitch failed. As I was about a block from my hardware store, I went in to borrow a phone to caul uhaul. The employee came back out with me to help fix it enough to get there . . . And I believe one of the big chaines (home depot?) actually hires retirees to wander up and down the aisles dispensing advice . . . hawk In the UK at least the best thing to do is to avoid anywhere like B&Q, Homebase, Do-it-all etc. (i.e. stores aimed at the home DIY'er). Instead, it is much better to visit trade outlets on industrial estates or business parks. I have discovered that not only are these places cheaper and much better stocked, they are also less busy and furthermore the staff there are usually very knowledgeable and very helpful and patient with idiots like me who say things like, "OK, I need one of those thingys. Can you tell me the best one? What else do you think I'll need?". None of these things are true in B&Q. -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 24 Aug 2001 20:27:23 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 29 Message-ID: <9m6dbb$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <3B83D656.79070C98@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com> <3B84121D.41E0180E@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88245 In article <3B84121D.41E0180E@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >Tom Ayers wrote: >> There was a Seagate hard disk back in the late 80's that the head would >> occasionally get stuck in the parked position. It was one of the early >> "self parking" drives. A good whack to the side of the case would free >> it. Of course we had a bunch of them throughout the organization. This >> was a fun problem. >The way we were advised to deal with this problem: Do *not* turn off the >computer...keep the disk drive spinning. If you do *not* park it, it can >*not* get stuck in park position... There was a grad student office down the hall with a hand-me-down system (one-time server) wiht a similar problem. It was labeld that it should *never* be turned off. The hard disk had to be manually spun to get it started. I thought they should give it a pull starter, but they were humor-impaired. hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:40:19 -0500 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m2rb7$gbf$7@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010823191824.600c6562.steveo@eircom.net> <20010824081343.06bf1d91.steveo@eircom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbMPXQqTRtlx8EFXwvfrw8C1Ya9GXGHkAl1a96KnLBiB1XoSHBVZtOS X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Aug 2001 23:40:42 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88402 On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:13:43 +0200, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:16:34 -0500 >Arargh! wrote: > >> Was (1) a reference to: http://www.geocities.com/rcwoolley/ by any >> chance ? > > I see you're awake. Sometimes. I had previously seen that site, and since it tends to match some of my opinions .... :-) -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:59:53 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lk3fi$62n$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6c84$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> User-Agent: tin/1.5.8-20010221 ("Blue Water") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 27 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88337 Prof. Richard E. Hawkins wrote: > In the UK at least the best thing to do is to avoid anywhere like B&Q, > Homebase, Do-it-all etc. (i.e. stores aimed at the home DIY'er). Instead, > it is much better to visit trade outlets on industrial estates or business > parks. I have discovered that not only are these places cheaper and much > better stocked, they are also less busy and furthermore the staff there are > usually very knowledgeable and very helpful and patient with idiots like me > who say things like, "OK, I need one of those thingys. Can you tell me the > best one? What else do you think I'll need?". None of these things are > true in B&Q. Two points: Fry and Laurie's "Flushed Grollings" sketch. and The greatest shop in the world - Barnitt's in York. It actually seems to have fractal geometry (you can never be quite sure which floor or indeed which building you end up in), and has everything from that one missing washer to a complete new bathroom suite, and staff who know *exactly* what you're after. Marvellous, and infinitely more browser-friendly than trade places. Oh, and they have a nice selection of Gerber, SOG, Leatherman and Victorinox too. What more can you want on a Saturday? pete ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 01:36:57 GMT Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net Message-ID: <3b86ecb0.195017575@news.shuswap.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010822202901.162e8c41.steveo@eircom.net> <9m2rer$gbf$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm3-41.shuswap.net X-Trace: 24 Aug 2001 18:53:41 -0700, salmonarm3-41.shuswap.net Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!feed.textport.net!newsranger.com!news.bnb-lp.com!nubby2.!salmonarm3-41.shuswap.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88297 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) writes: >> >> First, sex. Now, drugs get dragged in. What's next? > >Rock and roll, of course. Of course. I didn't deliberately set that line up. Really! Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: "Lawrence Statton" Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9m2rer$gbf$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> User-Agent: Pan/0.9.7 (Unix) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 68 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:59:24 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.167.105.100 X-Complaints-To: abuse@pacbell.net X-Trace: news.pacbell.net 998711926 64.167.105.100 (Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:58:46 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:58:46 PDT Organization: SBC Internet Services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!feed.textport.net!sn-xit-04!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!206.13.28.143!news.pacbell.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88301 In article , "Sergej Roytman" wrote: > So, what about them walking disk drives I've heard about, anyway? Are > they a myth invented for the benefit of us credulous young'uns, or did > such a thing actually exist? > Hmmmm .. how long has it been since I've posted this story ... I once worked for an IXC (alternative long distance carrier) in Cambridge, Mass. The switch was a DanRay CTSS-4000 which was controlled by a pair of Data General Nova-3 minicomputers in a master-slave arrangement. Each Nova had a Ball Brothers 80-meg top-loading SMD disk attached - basically a knockoff of the CDC 9762 on the end of VERY, VERY tightly stretched SMD cables. At any one time, the "online" CPU is handling call-processing, and the off-line is merely "snooping" on it's activity through a connection called the "BART" Card [1] and standing by to take over should the primary CPU hiccup. From time to time, the off-line CPU will be removed from this slave service (either by operator interaction, or on a schedule) for administrative functions, which case the online CPU buffers up a "redo log", so the slave can catch-up when it returns to Offline CP. One night, at shortly after midnight, I'm awakened by the chief night-operator, that the switch had dropped a major alarm, and yes, they have already called a taxi and he'll be in front of my house in 6 minutes. I roll into the switch room to find one of the disk drives had taken a trip across the floor and pulled it's radial-cable out of the connector, which of course caused the offline CPU to crash. Apparently, someone had needed to get into a floor tile under the disk drive, and raised the leveling feet to nudge it out of the way. They then forgot to re-lower the feet. At midnight, one of the scheduled processes that runs on the offline CPU began, which reclaims single lost blocks (Data General RDOS required sequential file allocation on disk), and does lots of short seeks moving data a track or two (The NOVA only had 32KWords (16 bit word) of memory available to RDOS - the custom mapping hardware the Danray used wasn't supported by the native OS). I put the disk back where it belongs, re-attach the SMD cables, and leave. The next night, I stay through 'til midnight, just so I can WATCH the dance take place, stop the disk before it gets to far, and readjust the leveling feet so it doesn't happen again. As the disk was doing its block squeeze trick, it was vibrating something fierce ... maybe an RMS amplitude of 5mm -- but even more amazing was there was a distinct "drift" of about 1 or 2mm per second in one direction (and a bit of a rotational component as well). I wish I'd owned a video camera at the time -- it would have made a great sequence for the X-mas party. [1] TWIAVBP: BART is the Bay Area Rapid Transit district - a regional light-rail project that ostensible connects the parts of the SF Bay Area that don't include the parts where people live. --Lawrence for my REAL email: echo 'mailto:lawrence@abaluon.abaom' | sed 's/aba/c/g' ###### Message-ID: <3B874617.737F7BCC@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> <3b80cafa.372239913@news.shuswap.net> <998340052snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B82F2DC.AD52A4FF@ev1.net> <488.633T2604T13866345@nowhere.in.particular> <20010822203001.53356da4.steveo@eircom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 04:33:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.179.111.125 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc2.tx.home.com 998713981 24.179.111.125 (Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:33:01 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:33:01 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc2.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88380 Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > On 21 Aug 01 23:06:52 -0800 > "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: > > CG> IIRC butyl mercaptan is the skunk's secret ingredient. > > Yep, didn't we just go round this a little while ago ? > Yes, except some British bloke mentioned that natural gas in Briton smelled of garlic...now *that* does *not* smell like Mercaptan. It was said that Britain used Butal Mercaptan, but IIRC, in the U.S. we use Ethyl Mercaptan... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:38:24 -0500 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9m2rer$gbf$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVb1UCnisB5r7r8/vUyXRQiM/JBFOkWqnXtwXEsf2oJOI1nGReBvtV64 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Aug 2001 04:39:15 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88386 On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:59:24 -0700, "Lawrence Statton" wrote: >In article , "Sergej Roytman" > wrote: >Hmmmm .. how long has it been since I've posted this story ... Cute story. The CDC 9762's were pretty heavy (I still have some), and I didn't think that it was possible to bang one that hard. But then I only used them in CDC cases or Nixdorf Cases (which tended to fry the drive - too much insulation). Were the Balls much lighter? -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW.... Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:36:40 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 14 Message-ID: <20010823193640.655ab98e.steveo@eircom.net> References: <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com> <998553748snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1008.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 998614873 84866 194.134.202.245 (24 Aug 2001 01:01:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:01:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88327 On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:02:28 GMT bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: BK> without the necessity for intervening LS & FS symbols did actually BK> provide slightly greater entropy.) Ugh, part of my brain just spend several seconds trying to connect Creed 75s to considerations of cryptographic security before another part had the decency to yell Shannon - IKIBHTL. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 25 Aug 01 09:33:00 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <9m853m$ntu$12@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010822202901.162e8c41.steveo@eircom.net> <9m2rer$gbf$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <3b86ecb0.195017575@news.shuswap.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbnqFes+sk8HyR6e8JLQQIne3XH4l8hNzOXelWvsQOL7AMCo9gg9KLF X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Aug 2001 12:19:02 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-184 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88443 In article <3b86ecb0.195017575@news.shuswap.net>, genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) wrote: >Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > >>genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) writes: >>> >>> First, sex. Now, drugs get dragged in. What's next? >> >>Rock and roll, of course. > > Of course. > > I didn't deliberately set that line up. Really! You sure fooled me. I wonder if this is another old fart indicator? Do kids know? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 25 Aug 01 09:31:32 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <9m850u$ntu$11@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6apd$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZLIdkEwJA/iOlaRF1LK7o3RF1tZzprhWYRzoIvC2Dag99Qq6PkAQRf X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Aug 2001 12:17:34 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-184 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88444 In article <9m6apd$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >In article <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: > > >>But, But, BUT! All the advertisements show pretty dressed-up >>women using them to screw anything. > >That's odd. There's a bigger market for pretty undressed women who >do it themselves :) There are so many lines...I think I'll pick that one. It depends on who is holding the purse strings. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:58:20 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <998697500snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B846698.BE7A25D9@yahoo.com> <998556792snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B864F70.E3A34B86@uk.sun.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 998823668 mail2news:19735 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 35 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!comnets.rwth-aachen.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88509 In article <3B864F70.E3A34B86@uk.sun.com> Mike.K.Smith@uk.sun.com "Mike K Smith" writes: > Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > > [ Description of Mylar carriage-control tapes deleted ] > > I remember a printer (not a line printer) that had a CC tape; made by > > either Anadex or Analex, IIRC. The tapes on that were definitely some > > plastic, presumably Mylar. (I think the printer was actually French; > > this would be ca. 1978) > Was it made by Logabax by any chance? That's the name: thank you. > I worked at a place which bought > one of these in 1978. The printer was upper-case only, dot matrix, but > used CC tapes. Ours was connected to a HP 9830 desktop computer (BASIC > only, 32 character LED display, cassette tape storage). Ours was on a Elliott 905; also, I think it had lower-case as well as upper-case. Our order would also have been from aroung 1978 too. (The engineer who serviced it said it was the biggest 905 in existence, since we'd added 256kW of storage (and adapted the hardware for the requisite 18-bit addressing vice the original 17-bit), card reader, the aforementioned Logabax, the Bryant 18Mb head-per-track disk, four Ampex tapes (which originally did only 200/556, and were again modified on site to do 1600 as well.) -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:10:49 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <998698249snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lk3fi$62n$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6c84$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 998823669 mail2news:19739 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!comnets.rwth-aachen.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88514 In article <9m6c84$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu "Prof. Richard E. Hawkins" writes: > And I believe one of the big chaines (home depot?) actually hires > retirees to wander up and down the aisles dispensing advice . . . Oddly enough, in view of the article to which you were[1] following up, in the UK B&Q are the chain that has done exactly that: a largish proportion of their staff are >65 yr, and have had a career's worth of experience in craftsment type jobs. [1] For some strange reason, the previous post was after your .sig, and had not been ornamented by any quotation indicator. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: D.J. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:46:17 -0500 Organization: TychoTown Tycho Crater Ice Cream Parlour Lines: 27 Message-ID: <67hgot80rbnveb5c7hjpk3tn7i24j8fn1j@4ax.com> References: <9lbala$b65$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010822202901.162e8c41.steveo@eircom.net> <9m2rer$gbf$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <3b86ecb0.195017575@news.shuswap.net> <9m853m$ntu$12@bob.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: djim55@cheesydatasync.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-906.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!news-out.nibble.net!news-in.nibble.net!headwall.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88495 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: []In article <3b86ecb0.195017575@news.shuswap.net>, [] genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) wrote: []>Joe Pfeiffer wrote: []> []>>genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) writes: []>>> []>>> First, sex. Now, drugs get dragged in. What's next? []>> []>>Rock and roll, of course. []> []> Of course. []> []> I didn't deliberately set that line up. Really! [] [] You sure fooled me. I wonder if this is another []old fart indicator? Do kids know? Yes, if they go to a Rocky Horror Picture Show song and dance. JimP. -- djim55 at tyhe datasync dot com. Disclaimer: Standard. Updated: August 19, 2001 http://www.crosswinds.net/~drivein/ Drive-In Movie Theatres Registered Linux user#185746 ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:18:35 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <998824715snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9m2rer$gbf$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 998846039 mail2news:22398 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88508 In article potus@whitehouse.gov "Lawrence Statton" writes: > [1] TWIAVBP: BART is the Bay Area Rapid Transit district - a regional > light-rail project that ostensible connects the parts of the SF Bay Area > that don't include the parts where people live. Aha! Back to the Tyneside Metro thread of a couple of months back: wasn't it said of that that one had to get a bus from one's house to get TO the Metro? TWIAVBP ??? -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: "Don Chiasson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net> Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Lines: 23 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:36:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.42.241.65 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news3.rdc2.on.home.com 998832997 24.42.241.65 (Sun, 26 Aug 2001 06:36:37 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 06:36:37 PDT Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news3.rdc2.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88477 wrote in message news:9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net... > In article <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, > hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: < > > >They were, until you changed the subject :) > > _I_ changed the subject!!!!? > There is a story that Bill Gates has a patent on thread drift. This group is likely to end up owing M$ several hundred million dollars. Don e-mail: it's hot, it's not not. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 33 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:58:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.213.74.25 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 998848687 141.213.74.25 (Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:58:07 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:58:07 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88473 In article , Lawrence Statton wrote: >In article , "Sergej Roytman" > wrote: >> So, what about them walking disk drives I've heard about, anyway? Are >> they a myth invented for the benefit of us credulous young'uns, or did >> such a thing actually exist? >As the disk was doing its block squeeze trick, it was vibrating something >fierce ... maybe an RMS amplitude of 5mm -- but even more amazing was >there was a distinct "drift" of about 1 or 2mm per second in one >direction (and a bit of a rotational component as well). > >I wish I'd owned a video camera at the time -- it would have made a great >sequence for the X-mas party. Cute. RMS amplitude of 5mm gives a peak-to-peak of what, 1.5cm? Just how massive were those arms the heads were mounted on, anyway? Not doubting your story on principles of my personal ignorance and inexperience, but my understanding of the relative sizes of things must be off. I should think that a disk drive would have had relatively massive platters, a decently-sized power supply, light seek arms, and bouncy rubbery and springy shock-absorbers to keep the whole works isolated from random vibrations. The high mass concentrated in the cabinet and light seek arms would make it seem to be hard to bounce the device, while the floating-ness of the whole arrangement would tend to make bouncing it easier. I guess it all comes down to the size of the seek arms, huh? So, what patterns of seeks worked best? -- Sergej Roytman ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 27 Aug 01 09:21:19 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9mdd6c$al3$5@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lk3fi$62n$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6c84$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <998698249snz@dsl.co.uk> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaA2TuascrSmYn51VqGHhk9+Tso5n+59rCYROnKxVQyCSX5VgziTE06 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 2001 12:07:40 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!209-122-234-179 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88540 In article , ic0cdfw00@ic24.net wrote: >On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:10:49 GMT, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) >wrote: > >>In article <9m6c84$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> >> hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu "Prof. Richard E. Hawkins" writes: >> >>> And I believe one of the big chaines (home depot?) actually hires >>> retirees to wander up and down the aisles dispensing advice . . . >> >>Oddly enough, in view of the article to which you were[1] following up, >>in the UK B&Q are the chain that has done exactly that: a largish >>proportion of their staff are >65 yr, and have had a career's worth of >>experience in craftsment type jobs. > >Indeed they do, and you can get a UK plumber's career's worth of advice. >For what that's worth. Talk is cheap. I want action, not advice. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 27 Aug 01 09:22:28 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9mdd8h$al3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYsiQe1uL28x/7+t4hMKDsrIwIKN2418H02SDXHOZWypPLS7nx7RPGr X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 2001 12:08:49 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!209-122-234-179 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88546 In article , "Don Chiasson" wrote: > > wrote in message news:9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net... >> In article <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, >> hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >< > >> >They were, until you changed the subject :) >> >> _I_ changed the subject!!!!? >> > > There is a story that Bill Gates has a patent on thread drift. > This group is likely to end up owing M$ several hundred million >dollars. Now how in the hell is he going to prove that I changed the subject. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:06:57 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <998521617snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 998530903 mail2news:13195 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 86 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88641 In article lionel@xcski.com "Lionel" writes: > Word has it that on Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:30:47 GMT, in this august forum, > Brian Huntley said: > > >A rough rule of thumb with Sun machines is, if you're adding RAM, you will NOT > get > >it properly seated first time (50% probability.) If you install it, put the > covers > >on, screw them down, and re-cable the machine before booting, the odds go to > 100%. > > Too true. I have a religious ritual of always smoke-testing any machine > I've worked on *before* replacing the last panel for precisely this > reason. This ensures that Murphy is appeased, & will bless my > repair/upgrade/installation work. With SCSI equipped hardware, you would > normally sacrifice the goat at about the the same time & smear a drop of > the blood on some inconspicuous spot inside the case. "Sure and wasn't Murphy always the optimist?" Today, I deployed a couple of dozen brand new PIII/700 systems, recently bought in from a reasonably competent OEM. We use Ghost Multicast to stick the same configuration onto all our PCs, so for each machine there's a separate stand-alone Win98 boot diskette that loads a packet driver for the NIC used on the system. When all the machines have booted off their own floppies, the server multicasts the disk image down to the machines, which can then be rebooted with identical configurations. One of these new machines moaned that there was no Ethernet card present (albeit that the BNCs and T-piece were plugged in to /something/), so I immediately surmised that the card wasn't properly inserted in its slot. I took the cover off, and sure enough, the card wasn't doing much more than lying on top of the PCI connector. Now this particular batch of computers from Evesham suffers from an inanity, in that they've installed the NIC in the slot right next to the AGP card, so that trying to attach a thin-wire Ethernet to the BNC connector in such close juxtaposition to the 15w submin-D for the SVGA is akin to "milking a mouse". Therefore, since I had the lid off, I took the opportunity to move the NIC to a different PCI slot (since there were five other empty ones). Being alert to manifestations of Murphy, I let the machine boot up off the diskette to the stage of identifying the NIC, before switching off again and replacing the covers. On once more applying the power, the machine booted happily, and fulfilled the quorum for Ghost, which then blasted the disk image down to each machine. After all machines had been cloned from the standard image, and rebooted, I checked that I could log in under various usernames to each. This particular machine, instead of displaying the Microsoft domain logon window (with username, password, and domain), showed only the standard Windows "stand-alone" login prompt for username and password. IOW, it was not aware that it was cabled to an Ethernet. When I did log in, it "detected new hardware" --- yes, the NIC. I let it "install the drivers for your new hardware", and let it reboot. Now when it came up, it *did* have a "networking" logon box; but still could not communicate. Of course, it is all the fault of good old plug'n'pray: because the NIC was in a different PCI slot, it had been allocated a different IRQ from that assumed by the standard image that had been blasted down. The /second/ NIC that got installed was talking properly to the hardware; the original one that the software knew about was the only one that knew how to find the server. So I /still/ had to take the lid off, and put the card back in the original slot (and yes, I DID check that it booted properly before I put the lid back). Sigh. (I've just realized that I'll have to go in and delete that spurious second NIC; I just hope that I can pick the correct one of the two that will show up in Properties for Network Neigborhood, because they /don't/ always seem to get in there in chronological order. Probably be quicker just to reboot off the floppy and clone it again. Double sigh.) -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:34:53 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <998523293snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B83D656.79070C98@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 998530909 mail2news:13202 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88642 In article <3B83D656.79070C98@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com> tom@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com "Tom Ayers" writes: > I would get a user, often in a semi panic state (they would get a hard > disk failure message). Of course I would ask them, "Do you have a > backup", and you can guess the response. Then I would power the > computer down, wait for the drive to spin down. WHACK! Power up and > all would be well. Of course I would then tell them "Don't try this at > home". > > It earned me a strange respect around there. Ah, "percussive maintenance". I first met that, at about the age of 11--12, when calling in at a TV repair shop each afternoon after school. "It's not knowing that one /can/ tap it, but knowing /where/ to tap it, that matters." -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 22 Aug 2001 14:02:45 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 998524965 14390 128.171.80.135 (23 Aug 2001 00:02:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Aug 2001 00:02:45 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88609 >>>>> "Don" == Don Stokes writes: Don> You should realise that mainframe line printer drivers tend to send Don> complete lines to the printer; thus a blank line involved sending a full Don> 132 characters plus carriage control, hence the behaviour of setting Don> what lines should be printed where in the loop. On the 14xx the print instruction (2 or 3 or 6 or 7, but that's a different thread) sent a line and single spaced (unless modified by ...). The carriage control was a separate instruction (K) which caused an immediate space or skip or saved a skip or space for after the next print. On the 3X0 there are separate channel commands for print and carriage control (in the same immediate or delayed forms). In either case a blank line can be done with an immediate skip 1 line control command. In the 14xx case, it could also be done with a print of 132 blanks. In the 3X0 case, it can also be done with a print of 1 to 132 blanks. Jim ###### From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 22 Aug 2001 14:15:27 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9kondb$q4s$1@top.mitre.org> <9kp9dn$199d$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <9l1tbt$v9$1@saltmine.radix.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 998525727 15173 128.171.80.135 (23 Aug 2001 00:15:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Aug 2001 00:15:27 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88611 >>>>> "Edward" == Edward Rice writes: Edward> In article <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org>, Edward> jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >> The carriage tape was the same length as the printed page only if the >> printer was set to 6 lines/inch. Crank the clutch knob over to 8 lpi >> and the carriage tape would still advance 1/6" for each line. >> I'm talking about the IBM 1403 (and similar) printers, but in the time >> I've been in the computer industry I don't think that I ever saw a >> carriage tape with a pitch other than 6 lpi. Edward> We had them. Some jobs, like student transcripts, required Edward> precise registration and tight spacing, and we used Edward> 88-lines-per-page and an 88-line carriage tape. Since, as you Edward> note, the tape moved 1/6 inch per line, this meant we had an Edward> over-length tape. If you'll recall with me, on the 1403 you Edward> loosened one pulley attachment and brought it toward the other a Edward> little, to remove and replace a carriage tape. That pulley was Edward> actually adjustable fairly far out -- at least 8/6ths of 11 Edward> half-inches, and probably a fair bit further than that. And the Edward> carriage tapes as supplied to us (don't know who made them -- some Edward> came from IBM, I'm sure) were 88 or more lines long. For normal Edward> 66-line use, we had to cut the tapes before glueing the ends Edward> together. (Hmmm, did we glue them? Tape them? I remember the Edward> process required a little practice.) Ummm, no, the tape was not at a 1:1 scale for 8LPI. The same tape was used for 6LPI and 8LPI. The sprocket holes did not change! If you'll think back a bit, you may even remember that a single tape was usually used for 2 sheets of paper, i.e., it had two channel 1 punches, two channel 9 punches (often used for footers), and two channel 12 punches (end of page), each 66 lines away from its pair. IIRC the normal tapes were 132 lines long so they did two 6LPI sheets or 1 8LPI sheet, or multiple checks or card stock form "pages". They were normally glued though scotch tape did work for a while before it gummed up the brushes. (Again, all this is IBM 1403-3/6/N1 printers. Data Products/Analex printers for DEC systems were different.) Jim ###### From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 22 Aug 2001 14:27:18 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> <9m09hm$b4i$10@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 998526438 15173 128.171.80.135 (23 Aug 2001 00:27:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Aug 2001 00:27:18 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88614 >>>>> "/BAH" == jmfbahciv writes: >> In article <9l63f8$cfk$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, >> jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> > >Later you used FORTRAN 4, which had logical IF statements, not >> > >just arithmetic ones: >> > > >> > >FORTRAN 2: IF (A-B) 30,30,50 >> > >> > I don't recall this construct being available. The FORTRAN-II >> > I learned was on an IBM 1620. >> >> It was there. You couldn't have learned FORTRAN II without learning that >> statement. /BAH> I could put the expression within the parentheses? I thought /BAH> I had to compute the expression outside the IF, assigning /BAH> it to a variable..I think of type INTEGER..I'm sure about this. /BAH> Then I can use the variable in the IF statement to direct the branching. Maybe in FORTRANSIT for the 650 the form of the expression was somewhat limited (or was that only for subscripts?). But by 1620 FORTRAN-II there was definitely a full arithmetic expression allowed in there. Remember IF (ABS(ACTUAL - TARGET) - 0.005) 20, 20, 10 10 PRINT 11 11 FORMAT(12H TOO FAR OFF) GO TO 999 20 PRINT 21 21 FORMAT(3H OK) 999 END ? :-) Jim ###### From: nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 23 Aug 2001 06:25:18 GMT Organization: Around here? Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9m27ke$mik$3@plutonium.btinternet.com> References: <3B83D656.79070C98@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com> <998523293snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-69-224.btinternet.com User-Agent: Xnews/4.04.17tea Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88610 bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote in <998523293snz@dsl.co.uk>: > Ah, "percussive maintenance". I first met that, at about the age of > 11--12, when calling in at a TV repair shop each afternoon after school. > > "It's not knowing that one /can/ tap it, but knowing /where/ to tap it, > that matters." > That's five pounds for hitting it, sir, and fortyfive pounds for knowing *where* to hit it... -- I have a quantum car. Every time I look at the speedometer I get lost... barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:27:49 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9m2rer$gbf$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <998824715snz@dsl.co.uk> User-Agent: tin/1.5.8-20010221 ("Blue Water") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 11 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88586 Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > > Aha! Back to the Tyneside Metro thread of a couple of months back: > wasn't it said of that that one had to get a bus from one's house to get > TO the Metro? > Entirely OT but it's the last place in the UK where I've seen Class War stickers. So it's got *something* going for it. :) pete ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:56:42 +0100 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <998824715snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 998863448 nnrp-14:3846 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Lines: 12 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88541 According to Brian {Hamilton Kelly} : > Aha! Back to the Tyneside Metro thread of a couple of months back: > wasn't it said of that that one had to get a bus from one's house to get > TO the Metro? Yes. I remember the journey well, if not the name of the station that I had to get to (although I think I can remember the bus number, either the 520 or 533, for what it isn't worth :) Still, as a spotty teenager in the early '80s, a return journey from Fellgate to Newcastle only cost me 5p! Chris. ###### From: ic0cdfw00@ic24.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:40:58 +0100 Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lk3fi$62n$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6c84$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <998698249snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: tony.lenton@physics.org NNTP-Posting-Host: du-038-0150.access.clara.net (217.158.30.150) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 998865838 1512541 217.158.30.150 (16 [88156]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!du-038-0150.access.clara.NET!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88646 On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 00:10:49 GMT, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: >In article <9m6c84$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> > hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu "Prof. Richard E. Hawkins" writes: > >> And I believe one of the big chaines (home depot?) actually hires >> retirees to wander up and down the aisles dispensing advice . . . > >Oddly enough, in view of the article to which you were[1] following up, >in the UK B&Q are the chain that has done exactly that: a largish >proportion of their staff are >65 yr, and have had a career's worth of >experience in craftsment type jobs. Indeed they do, and you can get a UK plumber's career's worth of advice. For what that's worth. ###### Message-ID: <3B89C620.9170060B@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B846698.BE7A25D9@yahoo.com> <998556792snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B864F70.E3A34B86@uk.sun.com> <998697500snz@dsl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 02:03:51 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.179.111.125 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc2.tx.home.com 998877831 24.179.111.125 (Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:03:51 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:03:51 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc2.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88625 Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > (The engineer who serviced it said it was the biggest 905 in existence, > since we'd added 256kW of storage (and adapted the hardware for the > requisite 18-bit addressing vice the original 17-bit), card reader, the > aforementioned Logabax, the Bryant 18Mb head-per-track disk, four Ampex > tapes (which originally did only 200/556, and were again modified on site > to do 1600 as well.) > Well, I guess we have to admit that a head-per-track drive must have a very short seek time... (;-)) -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 27 Aug 2001 09:12:28 -0600 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 16 Message-ID: <1b66b935b7.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lk3fi$62n$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6c84$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <998698249snz@dsl.co.uk> <9mdd6c$al3$5@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 998925144 20997 128.123.64.113 (27 Aug 2001 15:12:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Aug 2001 15:12:24 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!lax2-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88530 jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > > > >Indeed they do, and you can get a UK plumber's career's worth of advice. > >For what that's worth. > > Talk is cheap. I want action, not advice. There are times I want each -- I've had advice in auto parts stores that has been solid gold (the time I went to buy a bearing packer, and instead got a free lesson in how to pack wheel bearings, without a packer, and do a better job comes to mind). -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer SWNMRSEF: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:44:02 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 25 Message-ID: <20010827194402.2a67e065.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> <3b80cafa.372239913@news.shuswap.net> <998340052snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B82F2DC.AD52A4FF@ev1.net> <488.633T2604T13866345@nowhere.in.particular> <20010822203001.53356da4.steveo@eircom.net> <3B874617.737F7BCC@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p306.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 998937446 22589 194.134.200.198 (27 Aug 2001 18:37:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:37:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88581 On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 04:33:01 GMT Charles Richmond wrote: CR> Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: CR> > Yep, didn't we just go round this a little while ago ? CR> > CR> Yes, except some British bloke mentioned that natural gas CR> in Briton smelled of garlic...now *that* does *not* smell It most certainly does not, garlic is quite pleasant in suitable quantities, mercaptans OTOH. CR> like Mercaptan. It was said that Britain used Butal Mercaptan, CR> but IIRC, in the U.S. we use Ethyl Mercaptan... Hmm, Butyl is found in skunks and well known, ethyl is lighter and more volatile and (AIUI - I have *not* made a personal comparison) smellier. That would seem to make ethyl the mercaptan of choice unless there is a cheap supply of butyl. For some reason I have never come across propyl mercaptan or methyl mercaptan. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:29:34 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 37 Message-ID: <20010827202934.69f15a5d.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9mdd8h$al3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p306.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 998937448 22589 194.134.200.198 (27 Aug 2001 18:37:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:37:28 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88583 On Mon, 27 Aug 01 09:22:28 GMT jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > In article , > "Don Chiasson" wrote: > > > > wrote in message > news:9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net... > >> In article <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, > >> hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: > >< > > >> >They were, until you changed the subject :) > >> > >> _I_ changed the subject!!!!? > >> > > > > There is a story that Bill Gates has a patent on thread drift. > > This group is likely to end up owing M$ several hundred million > >dollars. Collecting would be interesting. > > > Now how in the hell is he going to prove that I changed > the subject. He won't bother, he'll have the lot of us as accessories to a drifting thread and probably throw in incitement charges (like the skim button got). The only option is to deny all postings when questioned in person. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 27 Aug 2001 20:34:08 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9meas0$1ouc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lk3fi$62n$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6c84$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!wn1feed!wn2feed!worldnet.att.net!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88549 In article , Pete Fenelon wrote: >Prof. Richard E. Hawkins wrote: >> In the UK at least the best thing to do is to avoid anywhere like B&Q, {*snip*} There seems to have been a horrible quotiation accident here :) Possibly a threading mishap while we're at it . . . . You replied to my post, but I think the text came from elsewhere . . . hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 27 Aug 2001 20:35:57 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 20 Message-ID: <9meavd$1ouc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9m83t5$ntu$8@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88559 In article <9m83t5$ntu$8@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >In article <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, > Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >>genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) writes: >>> First, sex. Now, drugs get dragged in. What's next? >>Rock and roll, of course. >I couldn't think of a line that had a double meaning for that one. yes, but experience tells us that we can find one in your reply :) hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 27 Aug 2001 20:37:40 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9meb2k$1ouc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88545 In article <9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >In article <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, > hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >>In article <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >>>You see the adverts. You know....you guys are the ones who >>>created the meanings of these words. All this time I thought >>>you all were talking about hardware. >>They were, until you changed the subject :) > _I_ changed the subject!!!!? Yep. *you* brought up pretty girls having sex in advertisments . . . hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 27 Aug 2001 20:38:39 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 25 Message-ID: <9meb4f$1ouc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6apd$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9m850u$ntu$11@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88543 In article <9m850u$ntu$11@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >In article <9m6apd$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, > hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >>In article <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >>>But, But, BUT! All the advertisements show pretty dressed-up >>>women using them to screw anything. >>That's odd. There's a bigger market for pretty undressed women who >>do it themselves :) >There are so many lines...I think I'll pick that one. >It depends on who is holding the purse strings. [*hawk whistles innocently*] It's not usually *purse* string that those girls are wearing . . . -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: Alexandre Pechtchanski Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW.... Organization: Rockefeller University Hospital (GCRC), New York Message-ID: References: <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:18:00 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.85.24.56 X-Trace: rockyd.rockefeller.edu 998518745 129.85.24.56 (Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:19:05 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:19:05 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!rockyd.rockefeller.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88524 On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:41:16 -0400, ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) wrote: [ snip ] >In article <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com>, >Alexandre Pechtchanski wrote: > > > >- you remember the joy of 9600 bps...ah that was high speed !!! > > ^^^^ > > YSTM 1200. HTH. > >ITYRM 300b. (And I know two people here, maybe more, who can discourse at >length about the joys of moving up to 110 baud.) I am only egg ;-) I do remember joys of moving from 110 baud to 300 baud, but we moved to 1200 real soon after, so this is probably why I jumped a step here ;-) -- [ When replying, remove *'s from address ] Alexandre Pechtchanski, Systems Manager, RUH, NY ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 27 Aug 01 11:48:37 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 30 Message-ID: <944.639T1855T7085372@nowhere.in.particular> References: <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9mdd8h$al3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-888.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88683 In article <9mdd8h$al3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com (jmfbahciv) writes: >In article , >"Don Chiasson" wrote: > >> wrote in message >>>news:9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net... >> >>> In article <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, >>> hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >>< > >>> >They were, until you changed the subject :) >>> >>> _I_ changed the subject!!!!? >> >>There is a story that Bill Gates has a patent on thread drift. >>This group is likely to end up owing M$ several hundred million >>dollars. > > >Now how in the hell is he going to prove that I changed the subject. Proof? Who needs proof? He can afford to hire a lot more lawyers saying you did than you can afford saying you didn't. Case closed. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### Message-ID: <3B8B3897.605F1F8C@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9mdd8h$al3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 04:24:31 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.179.111.125 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc2.tx.home.com 998972671 24.179.111.125 (Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:24:31 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:24:31 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc2.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88699 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article , > "Don Chiasson" wrote: > > > > wrote in message > news:9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net... > >> In article <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, > >> hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: > >< > > >> >They were, until you changed the subject :) > >> > >> _I_ changed the subject!!!!? > >> > > > > There is a story that Bill Gates has a patent on thread drift. > > This group is likely to end up owing M$ several hundred million > >dollars. > > > Now how in the hell is he going to prove that I changed > the subject. > Billy has programs on his servers...and if you are using Micro$uck internet programs--like Internet Exploder or Express--they report on *everything* you do on the net to Redmond. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 28 Aug 01 10:55:29 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: <9mg736$fgh$2@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9lk3fi$62n$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6c84$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <998698249snz@dsl.co.uk> <9mdd6c$al3$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b66b935b7.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZUAZbOyDLcZ7W6bEYKvBpFtjDd7PWWboxaw6mj2Txfxr2WNSDjZ4Rx X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:41:58 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-97-20 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88758 In article <1b66b935b7.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >> > >> >Indeed they do, and you can get a UK plumber's >> >career's worth of advice. >> >For what that's worth. >> >> Talk is cheap. I want action, not advice. > >There are times I want each -- Sure. :-) > ..I've had advice in auto parts stores >that has been solid gold (the time I went to buy a bearing packer, and >instead got a free lesson in how to pack wheel bearings, without a >packer, and do a better job comes to mind). In the case of plumbing, I am incapable of doing the work. So people can tell me how to do stuff all day, and I'll still not get the problem solved. In all but one of my plumbing problems, I already know how to fix it. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 28 Aug 01 10:07:29 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 31 Message-ID: <9mg496$m4t$10@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6apd$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9m850u$ntu$11@bob.news.rcn.net> <9meb4f$1ouc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYgcV3EU3ZsxV5eebuIvnvTy9Ny1NFaK+kyoKbGjqNE4rIYxclKt0YU X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Aug 2001 12:53:58 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-97-20 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88761 In article <9meb4f$1ouc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >In article <9m850u$ntu$11@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >>In article <9m6apd$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, >> hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >>>In article <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: > >>>>But, But, BUT! All the advertisements show pretty dressed-up >>>>women using them to screw anything. > >>>That's odd. There's a bigger market for pretty undressed women who >>>do it themselves :) > >>There are so many lines...I think I'll pick that one. > >>It depends on who is holding the purse strings. > >[*hawk whistles innocently*] In G? > >It's not usually *purse* string that those girls are wearing . . . I dele'd that one ;-). Besides, how am I supposed to know what is in their wardrobe? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 28 Aug 01 10:05:36 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: <9mg45l$m4t$9@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9meb2k$1ouc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZHTMUQ3Qjgxjqm0uL0Xc+ygWv396j5NTnzTSaEGS7ouZ5rWDs0EXdc X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Aug 2001 12:52:05 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-97-20 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88762 In article <9meb2k$1ouc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >In article <9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >>In article <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, >> hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >>>In article <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: > >>>>You see the adverts. You know....you guys are the ones who >>>>created the meanings of these words. All this time I thought >>>>you all were talking about hardware. > >>>They were, until you changed the subject :) > >> _I_ changed the subject!!!!? > > > >Yep. *you* brought up pretty girls having sex in advertisments . . . ROTFLMAO. They were screwing, not fucking. And I was very jealous because I'm having problems screw....^W inserting screws by hand. Here's this advert showing how one could dress up (first clue that it's a trick) and insert a screw just using one's thumb (second clue that it's a trick). /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 29 Aug 01 09:41:53 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <9min5g$1bb$5@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9mdd8h$al3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010827202934.69f15a5d.steveo@eircom.net> <9mh4if$ogm$1@red.engin.umich.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZpWujTItlv32EbiNmhHtnEBi4856NNezwKo5fguMi+N7Sl9PiBHF/e X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Aug 2001 12:28:32 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-30 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88765 In article <9mh4if$ogm$1@red.engin.umich.edu>, ftit@red.engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: >In article <20010827202934.69f15a5d.steveo@eircom.net>, >Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >> The only option is to deny all postings when questioned in person. > >Good idea. I, for one, did not write this. > I didn't write it either. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 28 Aug 01 10:59:05 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <9mg79u$fgh$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3b85b6cf.115676210@news.shuswap.net> <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9m83t5$ntu$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9meavd$1ouc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYCqwSon5Do7ZrbU3Xe318llYgyzC724aevs3IJD5HLne17iCTy6OP3 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Aug 2001 13:45:34 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-97-20 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88773 In article <9meavd$1ouc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >In article <9m83t5$ntu$8@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >>In article <1bn14p4d86.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, >> Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >>>genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) writes: > >>>> First, sex. Now, drugs get dragged in. What's next? > >>>Rock and roll, of course. > >>I couldn't think of a line that had a double meaning for that one. > >yes, but experience tells us that we can find one in your reply :) TW always said that, too. I never could figure out why. I'm talking about very sensible things, and, bam! out of the blue, I find we're talking about something else. And I definitely do not remember changing the subject. I didn't mind. The humor kept us from going on a fatal idiot hunt. I heard that our hardware engineering didn't have a similar pressure valve. They imploded. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 28 Aug 01 10:01:52 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 34 Message-ID: <9mg3um$m4t$8@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m08us$b4i$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9mdd8h$al3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B8B3897.605F1F8C@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYkQrobbliQNS7X97LR6mAiL/MDuZEV2U32Oxa33yws594h7saDf48o X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Aug 2001 12:48:22 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-97-20 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88780 In article <3B8B3897.605F1F8C@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> In article , >> "Don Chiasson" wrote: >> > >> > wrote in message >> news:9m84l6$ntu$10@bob.news.rcn.net... >> >> In article <9m6ar3$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, >> >> hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >> >< > >> >> >They were, until you changed the subject :) >> >> >> >> _I_ changed the subject!!!!? >> >> >> > >> > There is a story that Bill Gates has a patent on thread drift. >> > This group is likely to end up owing M$ several hundred million >> >dollars. >> >> >> Now how in the hell is he going to prove that I changed >> the subject. >> >Billy has programs on his servers...and if you are using Micro$uck >internet programs--like Internet Exploder or Express--they report >on *everything* you do on the net to Redmond. Which is why I don't use them. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 28 Aug 01 10:09:23 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <9mg4cp$m4t$11@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <20010828020846.21472.00004383@mb-mr.aol.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVY9Hwhw9FGEKyDkGuUl5TKZQqyIbghqgGgtOmti0M6Dce3m1uJIYoWZ X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Aug 2001 12:55:53 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-97-20 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88786 In article <20010828020846.21472.00004383@mb-mr.aol.com>, bbreynolds@aol.comskipthis (Bruce B. Reynolds) wrote: >>Not doubting your story on principles of my personal ignorance and >>inexperience, but my understanding of the relative sizes of things must >>be off. I should think that a disk drive would have had relatively >>massive platters, a decently-sized power supply, light seek arms, and >>bouncy rubbery and springy shock-absorbers to keep the whole works >>isolated from random vibrations. The high mass concentrated in the >>cabinet and light seek arms would make it seem to be hard to bounce the >>device, while the floating-ness of the whole arrangement would tend to >>make bouncing it easier. I guess it all comes down to the size of the >>seek arms, huh? > >SMD drive design put the removable pack at a nice height for the operator, >which caused all the electro-mechanical parts to be mounted fairly high up in >the cabinet. Essentially, the things were top heavy: get some motion going in >the upper works, and the bottom half would follow along, especially if (as was >noted in the story), the unit was not raised up on its levelling pads. Were they really designed with the operator in mind? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Lines: 23 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: bbreynolds@aol.comskipthis (Bruce B. Reynolds) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 28 Aug 2001 06:08:46 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: <20010828020846.21472.00004383@mb-mr.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88801 >Not doubting your story on principles of my personal ignorance and >inexperience, but my understanding of the relative sizes of things must >be off. I should think that a disk drive would have had relatively >massive platters, a decently-sized power supply, light seek arms, and >bouncy rubbery and springy shock-absorbers to keep the whole works >isolated from random vibrations. The high mass concentrated in the >cabinet and light seek arms would make it seem to be hard to bounce the >device, while the floating-ness of the whole arrangement would tend to >make bouncing it easier. I guess it all comes down to the size of the >seek arms, huh? SMD drive design put the removable pack at a nice height for the operator, which caused all the electro-mechanical parts to be mounted fairly high up in the cabinet. Essentially, the things were top heavy: get some motion going in the upper works, and the bottom half would follow along, especially if (as was noted in the story), the unit was not raised up on its levelling pads. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA -- Bruce B. Reynolds, Independent/Legacy Systems Consultant: Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA---Sweeping Up Behind Data Processing Dinosaurs ###### From: ftit@red.engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site Lines: 8 Message-ID: <9mh4if$ogm$1@red.engin.umich.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9mdd8h$al3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010827202934.69f15a5d.steveo@eircom.net> Date: 28 Aug 2001 18:05:03 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.213.74.21 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 999036304 141.213.74.21 (Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:05:04 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:05:04 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed2.skycache.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!localhost!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88808 In article <20010827202934.69f15a5d.steveo@eircom.net>, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > The only option is to deny all postings when questioned in person. Good idea. I, for one, did not write this. -- Sergej Roytman ###### Lines: 11 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: bbreynolds@aol.comskipthis (Bruce B. Reynolds) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 29 Aug 2001 17:35:26 GMT References: <3B843AA6.38C1@indyx.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: <20010829133526.13097.00002008@mb-dd.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88799 >The Datapoint >printers simulated the paper tape through a tiny plastic chain, the >links spliceable to any desired form length function. One or more links >were added with a extra bit sticking up to flag the stop point. There was one group of IBM printers (only model that I can think of off top of my head is the 2213 on a 2770 communications unit) which used the beaded metal chain also used for lamp pulls for a carriage control; carriage stops were programmed by using larger sized beads as appropriate. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA ###### Lines: 13 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: bbreynolds@aol.comskipthis (Bruce B. Reynolds) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 29 Aug 2001 17:43:02 GMT References: <9mg4cp$m4t$11@bob.news.rcn.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: <20010829134302.13097.00002010@mb-dd.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88796 >Were they really designed with the operator in mind? > The top-loading SMD's had the spindle just about at waist level (similar to height of 1311/2311 from IBM); compare that to the bending and/or lifting required to get packs mounted on 214/2319 or 3330; waist-height was restored with 3340. Bruce B. Reynolds, Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA -- Bruce B. Reynolds, Independent/Legacy Systems Consultant: Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA---Sweeping Up Behind Data Processing Dinosaurs ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:10:40 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 19 Message-ID: <20010829201040.1e17bc80.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9mdd8h$al3$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010827202934.69f15a5d.steveo@eircom.net> <9mh4if$ogm$1@red.engin.umich.edu> <9min5g$1bb$5@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p0888.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 999109779 86374 194.134.202.125 (29 Aug 2001 18:29:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:29:39 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.5.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!195.64.68.27!newsgate.cistron.nl!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88924 On Wed, 29 Aug 01 09:41:53 GMT jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > In article <9mh4if$ogm$1@red.engin.umich.edu>, > ftit@red.engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: > >In article <20010827202934.69f15a5d.steveo@eircom.net>, > >Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > >> The only option is to deny all postings when questioned in person. > > > >Good idea. I, for one, did not write this. > > > I didn't write it either. Write what ? I never write anything. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: root@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Admin Groover) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:42:09 +0100 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Message-ID: References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9mh4if$ogm$1@red.engin.umich.edu> <9min5g$1bb$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010829201040.1e17bc80.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 999115901 nnrp-14:4365 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: root@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Admin Groover) Lines: 19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88922 According to Steve O'Hara-Smith : > On Wed, 29 Aug 01 09:41:53 GMT > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > > In article <9mh4if$ogm$1@red.engin.umich.edu>, > > ftit@red.engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) wrote: > > >In article <20010827202934.69f15a5d.steveo@eircom.net>, > > >Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > >> The only option is to deny all postings when questioned in person. > > > > > >Good idea. I, for one, did not write this. > > > > > I didn't write it either. > > Write what ? I never write anything. Just for the record, I never saw nuthin, guv. Chris. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 30 Aug 01 09:14:30 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9ml9ud$6p8$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> <9m09hm$b4i$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m2rom$gbf$9@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaygxiFAvrF+C6WCWO4PZZXtHohtZbxN7FrSOYkoKfcZAqcHkFh2DcF X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Aug 2001 12:01:17 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!855271!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-52 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88994 In article , ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) wrote: >In article <9m2rom$gbf$9@bob.news.rcn.net>, >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > > > .. the form of the expression was somewhat > > >limited (or was that only for subscripts?). > > > > Maybe I'm confusing it all with that. > >I think that may be the case. Right through Fortran-66, the normal form >for a subscript was limited to (variable plus-or-minus constant), although >most Fortrans extended that to allow either full +/-/*// expressions (with >integer results, of course!) or any expression valid in an assignment >statement, including ASF references. > >It's okay, Barb, you were only twelve years old then. ROTFLMAO. Oh, NO! I'm going to have to live through the forties again. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 31 Aug 01 09:10:52 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 43 Message-ID: <9mnu3u$pq$4@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9mdd6c$al3$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b66b935b7.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9mg736$fgh$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9mm1li$1g9q@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaewKDe2Um1Q0CSZF9Vb6tR+Bjm8sndl0TSlAOpjlZzjd94a/4OW7FL X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Aug 2001 11:57:50 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-19 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89000 In article <9mm1li$1g9q@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >In article <9mg736$fgh$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >>In article <1b66b935b7.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, >> Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > >>>that has been solid gold (the time I went to buy a bearing packer, and >>>instead got a free lesson in how to pack wheel bearings, without a >>>packer, and do a better job comes to mind). > >>In the case of plumbing, I am incapable of doing the work. So >>people can tell me how to do stuff all day, and I'll still not >>get the problem solved. In all but one of my plumbing problems, >>I already know how to fix it. > >But aren't you still in MA? If so, ifmemory serves, it's illegal to do >it yourself rather than hiring a union plumber. Or carpenter. Or electrician. The problem here is that none want to work on old houses. There are so many new ones that these people have a choice...brand-spanking new houses to rough in or dirty problematic crawl spaces. And the ones that used to pick up the dirty jobs don't have to moonlight because they're making money at their day job. I had the same problems with snow plow guys. Every bloody one bought a new truck and didn't need the extra money to risk scratching it. > ... My refridgerator had >instructions for installing the water line, with warnings that you >couldn't do this there . . . If you have a magic incantation that 1. gets them to call back 2. does what you want them to 3. finishes the job let me know. During my more frustrating moments, I even seriously considered marrying one of them. At least that would get a body in the house (doesn't guarantee getting the work done but there are chocolate cakes for that). /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 30 Aug 01 10:09:33 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 20 Message-ID: <862.642T1690T6094879@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9mjtv9$bbq$1@panix2.panix.com> <9mlinb$lph$1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-045.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsmi-eu.news.garr.it!newsmi-us.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89067 In article <9mlinb$lph$1@top.mitre.org> jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: >Obviously, the feedback from the carriage control tape to the >application was usable only if the application was able to print >directly to the printer rather than going through a spooling process. >No application I ever was involved with ever bothered to use the >channel 9 or 12 responses; they either did their own linecounting, >or just dumped the output lines to the printer and relied on the >output spooler to automatically skip over the perfs. Things might have been a bit different in the Univac world; we were able to define a virtual carriage tape in JCL. The spooler did line counting internally, and was able to fake the appropriate page overflow indications to our programs. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 30 Aug 01 10:01:55 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 39 Message-ID: <1766.642T2756T6016489@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9mjtv9$bbq$1@panix2.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-880.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89072 In article <9mjtv9$bbq$1@panix2.panix.com> jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) writes: >>You should realise that mainframe line printer drivers tend to send >>complete lines to the printer; thus a blank line involved sending a >>full 132 characters plus carriage control > >IBM system loved fixed length record formats as well. >I remember hearing IBMers being totally bewildered >at the concept that AIX didn't enforce fixed record length. >"but how do you know where you are in the file", they'd gasp! If I had to pick one characteristic which distinguished mainframes from minis, it would be the concept of fixed-length records. Hardware was designed to transfer a specified number of bytes without software intervention; you never heard the term "DMA" in a mainframe shop because it was taken for granted. This was the reason that mainframes of 20 or 30 years ago had such prodigious I/O capabilities, even though their CPU power was quite modest by today's standards. Although fixed-length records are great for disk, tape, printers, cards, etc., the concept didn't fit as well when terminals emerged. Mainframe data communications was extrememly complex, and tended to use protocols that were designed to send files across the continent, which was usually overkill when sending a message to a terminal across the room. Far beyond a mainframe characteristic, the concept of fixed-length records became a mindset. Some have referred to it derisively as the "punch-card mentality". But it had - and indeed still has - its place. Batch applications (e.g. payroll or accounts receivable) still exist, and mainframes, which were designed to handle them, still do so very well. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 29 Aug 2001 18:40:53 -0400 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 15 Message-ID: <9mjr1l$2ej$1@panix2.panix.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 999124836 3589 166.84.1.2 (29 Aug 2001 22:40:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Aug 2001 22:40:36 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!panix!news.panix.com!panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89004 >>>I was wondering what the left-pondians call a "Yankee" screwdriver >>>see: http://www.toolfast.co.uk/styrhd28.html for picture >>They're called Yankee here too. >>I think that's the name of the mfgr. I think this kinda confirms that: http://www.mwtca.org/OTC/ar000001.htm or Yankee was the name for that style of screwdriver, but it's treated like a copyright/trademark since some places refer to "Yankee-style" screwdrivers. -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 29 Aug 2001 18:55:11 -0400 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 12 Message-ID: <9mjrsf$6a1$1@panix2.panix.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 999125695 3896 166.84.1.2 (29 Aug 2001 22:54:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Aug 2001 22:54:55 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!panix!news.panix.com!panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89007 >For normal 66-line use, we had to cut the tapes before >glueing the ends together. (Hmmm, did we glue them? Tape them? I >remember the process required a little practice.) Somewhere I ought to still have my bottle of genuine IBM Tape Mucilage for glueing the carriage control tapes into loops (unless I felt unusually generous and included that in my donation of carriage control tapes & genuine IBM punch to the Smithsonian). -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 29 Aug 2001 19:30:49 -0400 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 73 Message-ID: <9mjtv9$bbq$1@panix2.panix.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 999127833 4644 166.84.1.2 (29 Aug 2001 23:30:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Aug 2001 23:30:33 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!panix!news.panix.com!panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89023 ... carriage control tapes ... I wish I could scan and post images, for I have IBM brochures from the 40s and 50s for their "accounting machines". The printers had 12 column carriage control tapes and I am rather sure the mechanism was reused for the 1132 printer. The grey hammertone cover within the blue cabinet was a giveaway :-) >>Uh, OK, so this was an electro-mechanical thing, right? An endless >>loop of punched tape which was synchronized with the paper, and the >>punches in which corresponded to significant places in the paper (top- >>of-form, bottom of the page, etc.)? How often did this thing wear out? >Often enough. Later there were electronic equivalents, where you >downloaded the loop contents to the printer. In the mid to late 70s, New York City high schools had IBM RJE terminals (RED cabinets!) consisting of line printer, card reader, kybd, modem. I remember having cards that defined "jobs": setting lines per inch, page length, vertical tabs / carriage controls, etc. About 4-6 could be stored at once. The kybd had lotsa special function keys, one was to choose the active job. [I kinda remember the sequence "start job / 3 / EOM". The job also connected devices: card reader to line, line to printer, etc, so connecting card reader to printer was local printing]. There were about 16 status LEDS but most glorious of all was the bar of LEDS along the printer: 132 of them. The LED lit up as you typed! When using the "chat" facility, I defined a page length of 2-3 lines so the '1' (form-feed) at the start of every message didn't keep wasting paper. >You should realise that mainframe line printer drivers tend to send >complete lines to the printer; thus a blank line involved sending a full >132 characters plus carriage control IBM system loved fixed length record formats as well. I remember hearing IBMers being totally bewildered at the concept that AIX didn't enforce fixed record length. "but how do you know where you are in the file", they'd gasp! I'm unsure if there was compression on the remote lines, but there was a "transparent mode" on the card reader needed for binary decks, else it would not read the cards! Not a mechanical jam but apparently failure to translate some characters. I wonder if that had something to do with "escaping" protocol sequences since a quick web search of related things found: The default transfer protocol is the ASCII subset of the IBM 3780 BiSynch protocol, in transparent and non-transparent mode, ... >BTW, each channel could be punched multiple times, so if you punched a >particular channel for every third line, you could use it for triple >spaced output. Thus you could print several different forms with the >same loop, if you held your mouth right. In my not-so-valuable antique computer collection are IBM coding pads. The biggest is for planning printouts: 132 columns by 66 lines. In the left margin is a carriage control tape to specify the punches (just a form of the carriage control tape, not a real one to detach). Ya, there was no limit to the number of punches in a row and in fact it was rather useful for things like forms that were 3 to a page: column 1 was top of page, column 2 was next form (3 per page) column 3 was almost bottom of page (needed for subtotals), etc. On some systems, one of the rows caused an interrupt that RPG used to trigger subtotal calculations and printing (typically at bottom of page). It's not hard to extend that to also print titles on the next page, or trigger that at top of page for titles only. -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 29 Aug 2001 19:46:03 -0400 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 33 Message-ID: <9mjurr$djc$1@panix2.panix.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org> <3B843AA6.38C1@indyx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 999128747 4993 166.84.1.2 (29 Aug 2001 23:45:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Aug 2001 23:45:47 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!panix!news.panix.com!panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89029 >The few paper tapes that I have dealt with came in a kit consisting of >one length of heavy tape and plastic tape "patches" to join the ends. >The patches were "lace" punched and self adhesive, and the only tricky >part was lining up the patch and tape drive holes, and the loose ends, >all at the same time. Gee, I'd have thought that there was some splicing table with spikes along the middle sprocket holes to align it all. I don't think the carriage control punch would double for that since it had only a few spikes to hold the tape in place, not a spike-per-hole. Geez, I remember some carriage control punches with adjustments for 6 or 8 lines per inch, so there's some credability to the tape always moving along with the paper at the same rate and distance. >Most of the other printers that I had to work with used a rotary switch( >Dataproducts ) for form length. There were about 10 preset position, >and maybe one you could custom program with jumpers. The Datapoint >printers simulated the paper tape through a tiny plastic chain, the >links spliceable to any desired form length function. One or more links >were added with a extra bit sticking up to flag the stop point. Geez, you're waking up parts of my memory that were better left alone :-) I had several Teletype model 40 printers. If only I had a basement for keeping them all: they were built like tanks. Used Decwriter ribbons (plentiful and cheap), and had a thick rubber-band with bumps on one side for defining page length and top of form! I forgot how many channels that defined for vertical tabs. -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 29 Aug 2001 19:55:52 -0400 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 20 Message-ID: <9mjve8$err$1@panix2.panix.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <3B843AA6.38C1@indyx.net> <3B846698.BE7A25D9@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 999129336 5176 166.84.1.2 (29 Aug 2001 23:55:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Aug 2001 23:55:36 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!panix!news.panix.com!panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89025 >Somebody forgot to order those splicing tapes, and the CC tape got >chewed up. We had a master for copying purposes only, but having >made a bunch of copies we had to splice them. Rubber cement lasted >an hour or so. Elmers glue took a while to dry, and then the >result was stiff and wouldn't feed. I think we eventually got >going with Scotch tape bits on the edges after the rubber cement. Ah, I forgot to ask: of what were the carriage control tapes made? IBM ones were paper / mylar / paper sandwitch so they didn't stretch or tear easily, but mucilage glued it just fine. Plain paper ones didn't last very long. There was no "law" that the carriage control tape splice had to be at line 1. Since it's a loop, I think I tried to rotate the punches around so the splice was in an area of no punches. -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: "Don Chiasson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9m0dch$1s$1@top.mitre.org> <3B843AA6.38C1@indyx.net> <9mjurr$djc$1@panix2.panix.com> Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Lines: 40 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:09:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.42.241.65 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news3.rdc2.on.home.com 999133753 24.42.241.65 (Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:09:13 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:09:13 PDT Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news3.rdc2.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89084 "Jeff Jonas" wrote in message news:9mjurr$djc$1@panix2.panix.com... > >The few paper tapes that I have dealt with came > >in a kit consisting of one length of heavy tape > >and plastic tape "patches" to join the ends. > >The patches were "lace" punched and self > >adhesive, and the only tricky part was lining > >up the patch and tape drive holes, and the > >loose ends, all at the same time. > > Gee, I'd have thought that there was some splicing table > with spikes along the middle sprocket holes to align it all. > I don't think the carriage control punch would double for that > since it had only a few spikes to hold the tape in place, > not a spike-per-hole. > For one inch paper tape - programs or data, not printer control - there was a small metal gizmo for tape editing. There were, as you say, spikes that went through the sprocket holes to align the tape. A cover with eight holes flipped over the tape and a metal punch could make new holes. There was narrow opaque patching tape to cover individual holes. For joining two pieces of tape, there was sticky splicing tape that had eight data holes plus sprocket hole pre-punched. As well, there was a groove in the base of the gadget to enable clean square cuts. I rarely used this gadget except for repairing system tapes. Otherwise, my Swiss army knife and standard transparent tape worked just fine. Last time I did any of this stuff was 1977. Thank god. (Re spelling, I'm Unitarian.) Don e-mail: it's not not, it's hot. ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 29 Aug 2001 19:25:56 -0600 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 10 Message-ID: <1bg0aa1gpn.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9mh4if$ogm$1@red.engin.umich.edu> <9min5g$1bb$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010829201040.1e17bc80.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 999134752 21070 128.123.64.113 (30 Aug 2001 01:25:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Aug 2001 01:25:52 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!lax2-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88965 root@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Admin Groover) writes: > > Just for the record, I never saw nuthin, guv. > I certainly didn't write this post. -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer SWNMRSEF: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:40:05 -0500 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 17 Message-ID: <2igrotkjpqrdiu0j7clh2rpkmu28nm90kq@4ax.com> References: <9mg4cp$m4t$11@bob.news.rcn.net> <20010829134302.13097.00002010@mb-dd.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaq47OqtXPyewvh6CYaoQT/GY09ag7VZ3Voq/5N5xbbDpFqA9My6/oe X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Aug 2001 04:40:08 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89123 On 29 Aug 2001 17:43:02 GMT, bbreynolds@aol.comskipthis (Bruce B. Reynolds) wrote: >>Were they really designed with the operator in mind? >> > >The top-loading SMD's had the spindle just about at waist level (similar to >height of 1311/2311 from IBM); compare that to the bending and/or lifting >required to get packs mounted on 214/2319 or 3330; waist-height was restored >with 3340. I think that the CDC cabinet used for the 9762 had an option to stick another dreive in below the top one, but it required additional mounting hardware. So, for the lower drive you get to get a backache. -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:11:16 -0400 References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: max1h-41.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 999148277 max1h-41.his.com (30 Aug 2001 01:11:17 -0400) Lines: 23 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88969 In article , don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) wrote: > You should realise that mainframe line printer drivers tend to send > complete lines to the printer; thus a blank line involved sending a full > 132 characters plus carriage control, hence the behaviour of setting > what lines should be printed where in the loop. This feels odd to > anyone used to character printers and LF/FF style carriage control, but > makes sense when you consider the meaning of the term "line printer". This was not the case with either the IBM 1403-N1 or the CDC or Honeywell printers with which I'm familiar. It /was/ true of the 1403 used on a 14xx system, because the interface wasn't through a fairly bright channel. Rather, the Print command ("P") was issued, and the printer took its data from the 132 character positions it knew about (core positions 100-231, DIRC?), and that was the whole thing. In that situation, you could use the printed line core positions for, say, initialization code -- but you'd darned well better get it cleared to blanks before you started printing something. Edward ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:11:17 -0400 References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> <9m09hm$b4i$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m2rom$gbf$9@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: max1h-41.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 999148278 max1h-41.his.com (30 Aug 2001 01:11:18 -0400) Lines: 19 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88966 In article <9m2rom$gbf$9@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > .. the form of the expression was somewhat > >limited (or was that only for subscripts?). > > Maybe I'm confusing it all with that. I think that may be the case. Right through Fortran-66, the normal form for a subscript was limited to (variable plus-or-minus constant), although most Fortrans extended that to allow either full +/-/*// expressions (with integer results, of course!) or any expression valid in an assignment statement, including ASF references. It's okay, Barb, you were only twelve years old then. Edward ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <997811884.9090.0.nnrp-12.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> <9lrakk$rpo$1@panix3.panix.com> <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <9mjr1l$2ej$1@panix2.panix.com> From: Mike Spencer X-Organization: Bridgewater Institute for Advanced Study - Blacksmith Shop Message-ID: Lines: 35 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 07:09:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 142.177.208.114 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mpoweredpc.net X-Trace: sapphire.mtt.net 999155370 142.177.208.114 (Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:09:30 ADT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:09:30 ADT Organization: MPowered-Subscriber Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!255296!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn!news-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca!sapphire.mtt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89080 >>I was wondering what the left-pondians call a "Yankee" screwdriver >>see: http://www.toolfast.co.uk/styrhd28.html for picture >They're called Yankee here too. >I think that's the name of the mfgr. That's right. Same for the Yankee drill. I have two of the latter, slightly different. One is marked "Millers Falls Tool Co. No. 81" (Tool company in Massachusetts, now possibly taken over by a conglomerate?) The other is marked: YANKEE No. 41 NORTH BROS. MFG. CO. PHILA. PA. USA PAT JAN 25 x8 - OCT 29 01 ???? 20 The x could be a '9'; the ???? is unreadable. This particular drill I inherited from my father and it was old and well used in the late 40s. SEE ALSO: http://www.mjdtools.com/tools/list_382/16172.htm http://www.mwtca.org/OTC/ar000001.htm http://www.idcomm.com/personal/cfales/Sdpat_db.htm (Scroll down to the Zachary T. Furbish lines) FWIW -- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 03:36:21 -0500 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 29 Message-ID: <1eurot08cv4bl8a95nvevdvprct0ohuahs@4ax.com> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811092531.268d4cc4.steveo@eircom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYude5jNFb6/Zpwan+qfOk3We1I6R2SQ4FCVH8wa2pXmdZR4D5adWSt X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Aug 2001 08:36:25 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89124 On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:11:16 -0400, ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) wrote: >In article , >don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) wrote: > > > You should realise that mainframe line printer drivers tend to send > > complete lines to the printer; thus a blank line involved sending a full > > 132 characters plus carriage control, hence the behaviour of setting > > what lines should be printed where in the loop. This feels odd to > > anyone used to character printers and LF/FF style carriage control, but > > makes sense when you consider the meaning of the term "line printer". > >This was not the case with either the IBM 1403-N1 or the CDC or Honeywell >printers with which I'm familiar. It /was/ true of the 1403 used on a 14xx >system, because the interface wasn't through a fairly bright channel. >Rather, the Print command ("P") was issued, and the printer took its data "2" or "W" -- not P, P was Punch a card >from the 132 character positions it knew about (core positions 100-231, 201-332 unless you had a 120 char printer 101-180 were the punch positions And there was a 'somewhat brighter channel' option avail for the 1401. >DIRC?), and that was the whole thing. In that situation, you could use the >printed line core positions for, say, initialization code -- but you'd >darned well better get it cleared to blanks before you started printing >something. -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 30 Aug 2001 14:31:07 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 103 Message-ID: <9mlinb$lph$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9mjtv9$bbq$1@panix2.panix.com> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 999181867 22321 128.29.251.13 (30 Aug 2001 14:31:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Aug 2001 14:31:07 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88970 jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) writes: >... carriage control tapes ... >I wish I could scan and post images, for I have IBM brochures from the >40s and 50s for their "accounting machines". >The printers had 12 column carriage control tapes >and I am rather sure the mechanism was reused for the 1132 printer. >The grey hammertone cover within the blue cabinet was a giveaway :-) The 1132 also used the same printwheels that could be found in the model 407 accounting machine...unless there was another EAM-derived printer for the 1130 series that I've confused with the 1132. >In the mid to late 70s, New York City high schools had >IBM RJE terminals (RED cabinets!) >consisting of line printer, card reader, kybd, modem. >I remember having cards that defined "jobs": >setting lines per inch, page length, vertical tabs / carriage controls, etc. >About 4-6 could be stored at once. H'mmm ... sounds like the "FCB" (Forms Control Buffer) feature. >The kybd had lotsa special function keys, one was to choose the active job. >[I kinda remember the sequence "start job / 3 / EOM". >The job also connected devices: card reader to line, line to printer, etc, >so connecting card reader to printer was local printing]. That might have been a 1050 terminal system, although if that's the case it might have been surplussed from some previous owner. The 1050 dates to the early (?) 1960s or maybe before, and was a 6-bit device. At least one vestage of the 1050 survived into the S/360 arena: the CAI/360 (Computer-Aided Instruction) package from IBM was a raw port of the 1401 program, and stored all its text in 1050 line code rather than EBCDIC! >>You should realise that mainframe line printer drivers tend to send >>complete lines to the printer; thus a blank line involved sending a full >>132 characters plus carriage control >IBM system loved fixed length record formats as well. >I remember hearing IBMers being totally bewildered >at the concept that AIX didn't enforce fixed record length. >"but how do you know where you are in the file", they'd gasp! IBM systems supported three record formats: fixed, variable, and "undefined"; fixed and variable records could additionally be blocked into larger physical records to more efficiently use disk space. Variable-format records had a header the explicitly gave the length of the data portion; they could supported spanned records where the length of a single logical record was larger than the physical record. (All of this blocking and spanning was done under the covers; the application program didn't normally have to concern itself with the details.) With fixed-length records you could treat a sequential file on disk as a random-access data base, since a request for record number _n_ could easily be translated into a specific record on the disk. >>BTW, each channel could be punched multiple times, so if you punched a >>particular channel for every third line, you could use it for triple >>spaced output. That wasn't true for the 1403 and its ilk; you could have any number of punches in a given carriage tape channel, but no more than one punch at one line. >On some systems, one of the rows caused an interrupt that RPG used >to trigger subtotal calculations and printing (typically at bottom of page). >It's not hard to extend that to also print titles on the next page, >or trigger that at top of page for titles only. On IBM's S/3x0 systems channels 1, 9, and 12 had specific hardware functions: * Channel 1 was "top of page" and was used when the operator hit the "page eject" button on the printer control panel. * Channel 12 was the "end-of-page" indicator, and when encountered in a print (but not skip) operation would cause the operation to end with UE (Unit Exception) status. The usual response by the application to UE was to issue a skip to channel 1 and continue printing -- thus skipping over the fanfold perforations. * Channel 9 was "page overflow;" sensing it during a print (but not skip) operation caused the operation to end with UC (Unit Check) and the Channel 9 sense bit. Its function was to signal the application that it had filled the body of the form being printed, to which the application would print footer lines, skip to the top of the next form, print header lines, and resume printing detail information. Obviously, the feedback from the carriage control tape to the application was usable only if the application was able to print directly to the printer rather than going through a spooling process. No application I ever was involved with ever bothered to use the channel 9 or 12 responses; they either did their own linecounting, or just dumped the output lines to the printer and relied on the output spooler to automatically skip over the perfs. Joe Morris ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 30 Aug 2001 18:44:18 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 40 Message-ID: <9mm1i2$1g9q@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9m850u$ntu$11@bob.news.rcn.net> <9meb4f$1ouc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9mg496$m4t$10@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88972 In article <9mg496$m4t$10@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >In article <9meb4f$1ouc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, > hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >>In article <9m850u$ntu$11@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >>>In article <9m6apd$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, >>> hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: >>>>In article <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >>>>>But, But, BUT! All the advertisements show pretty dressed-up >>>>>women using them to screw anything. >>>>That's odd. There's a bigger market for pretty undressed women who >>>>do it themselves :) >>>There are so many lines...I think I'll pick that one. >>>It depends on who is holding the purse strings. >>[*hawk whistles innocently*] >In G? of course :) >>It's not usually *purse* string that those girls are wearing . . . >I dele'd that one ;-). Besides, how am I supposed to know >what is in their wardrobe? Well, since we've established that they're undressing, all we need to do is wait and see :) hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 30 Aug 2001 18:46:10 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 25 Message-ID: <9mm1li$1g9q@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9mdd6c$al3$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b66b935b7.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9mg736$fgh$2@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88987 In article <9mg736$fgh$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >In article <1b66b935b7.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>, > Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >>that has been solid gold (the time I went to buy a bearing packer, and >>instead got a free lesson in how to pack wheel bearings, without a >>packer, and do a better job comes to mind). >In the case of plumbing, I am incapable of doing the work. So >people can tell me how to do stuff all day, and I'll still not >get the problem solved. In all but one of my plumbing problems, >I already know how to fix it. But aren't you still in MA? If so, ifmemory serves, it's illegal to do it yourself rather than hiring a union plumber. My refridgerator had instructions for installing the water line, with warnings that you couldn't do this there . . . hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... (bleeding on the job) Date: 29 Aug 2001 20:05:28 -0400 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 21 Message-ID: <9mk008$glc$1@panix2.panix.com> References: <998521617snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 999129911 5387 166.84.1.2 (30 Aug 2001 00:05:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Aug 2001 00:05:11 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!panix!news.panix.com!panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88985 >>> This ensures that Murphy is appeased, & will bless my >>> repair/upgrade/installation work. With SCSI equipped hardware, you would >>> normally sacrifice the goat at about the the same time & smear a drop of >>> the blood on some inconspicuous spot inside the case. >Goat's blood? Bah. Every time I've fitted an S-Bus card into a Sun I've left >some of my own claret inside there. When it comes to finger slicing and bleeding, can anything compare to the razor sharp edge plates of IBM microbus cards? They had a "U" notch on the bottom to create *2* sharp points for piercing action and tiny finger-contacts all along the edge for shreadding action and they were THIN metal to assure all edges were sharp! VME, STD and multibus cards were a pleasure to handle since they tended to have proper finger-friendly ejectors. -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... (bleeding on the job) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:56:49 +0100 Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Message-ID: References: <998521617snz@dsl.co.uk> <9mk008$glc$1@panix2.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 999171536 nnrp-10:12864 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Lines: 12 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88977 According to Jeff Jonas : > VME, STD and multibus cards were a pleasure to handle > since they tended to have proper finger-friendly ejectors. Some VME cards had a trick up their sleeve, however: the ejectors on some designs were fixed (I'd like to meet the "genius" that decided to do that) and, being slippery and at an angle, they required such contortions to persuade the card-cage to part with its card that the thing would suddenly jerk out, lacerating any exposed bits with those nice sharp corners. Chris. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW.... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:54:52 -0400 References: <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: max1h-107.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 999136493 max1h-107.his.com (29 Aug 2001 21:54:53 -0400) Lines: 21 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88978 In article , Alexandre Pechtchanski wrote: > I am only egg ;-) > I do remember joys of moving from 110 baud to 300 baud, but we moved to 1200 > real soon after, so this is probably why I jumped a step here ;-) Ah, but we all know, Alexandre, that the actual invention of 1200 baud by a Russian took place much more recently than the days when the rest of the world was pretending to be using 1200b. Russian 1200b is a much better technology, of course, because it is so much newer. (I'd BETTER add a smilie: :-) Actually, from what I remember of Russian phone lines in about 1990, I'm amazed you ever got 1200 baud working reliably. Was the 9600 dial-up or leased-line equivalent? Edward ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: YKYGOW.... Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:54:54 -0400 References: <9bb8ntsslf30ubni4h35efmi36g8oiippp@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: max1h-107.his.com X-Trace: vienna7.his.com 999136495 max1h-107.his.com (29 Aug 2001 21:54:55 -0400) Lines: 25 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:88983 In article , Jim Thomas wrote: > Umm, 16K was right, but the disk was a 1311 and it held 2M characters :-) > If it was only an input unit for a 7094, 4K should have been plenty, even > with the disk drive :-) That's right! I was confusing the 1311 with the 1301 in my mind. 2M characters. Man, it was still a boatload, back in those days. 4K was /not/ enough for running the IBSYS PRP, with our accounting modifications to it. Our other machine, the older one, ran PRP with the ability to take 704 accounting cards and "do things to them," and that took us up to 8K. I think our 16K bootload also included user account validation from a file on the 1311, so that a job that was going to /start/ running when the user's account was already known to be cancelled would be stopped before it reached the '94. Sounds right. - E "192-meg burning, 6-gig spinning -- on a portable -- this moment" R ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 01 Sep 01 09:55:28 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 44 Message-ID: <9mql3q$gjr$15@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9mdd6c$al3$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b66b935b7.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9mg736$fgh$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9mm1li$1g9q@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9mnu3u$pq$4@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B90102D.79177639@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYHfEQVR8dAD+tMaDeeRnYL5KL+merhAYrdySO+fDnn3raSV4WxJUx/ X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Sep 2001 12:42:34 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-16 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89159 In article <3B90102D.79177639@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> >> If you have a magic incantation that 1. gets them to call back >> 2. does what you want them to 3. finishes the job >> >> let me know. During my more frustrating moments, I even seriously >> considered marrying one of them. At least that would get a body >> in the house (doesn't guarantee getting the work done but there >> are chocolate cakes for that). >> >Call Habitat for Humanity or some such organization... I have heard >of them fixing up old houses for people who can *not* do it themselves. I don't need fixing up (well, maybe I do but I don't want it done). I need repair work. This requires union people. Union people are busy on doing unmessy stuff (or the Big Dig which is lucrative stuff). >I am *serious*...if *no* one else will help you, maybe they will... I'll try it. Note that this isn't a labor problem unique to my circumstances. Just about everyone I talk with has the same kinds of service problems. Our electric company now has a "service" where, if I pay them about $5 US/month, they will guarantee that an electrician will call back. Note they do not guarantee the electrician will agree to do the work. This is just another flavor of service access fee. > >The only other thing I can think of is...if you had a friend or >a relative (that you are on good terms with) in the plumbing, or >electrician, or dry-wall business... All my relatives dabble in all those businesses. They are also 1000 miles away; most of the time that's a feature :-). /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Message-ID: <3B8FDE20.18E35FE@thinkage.ca> From: "Alan T. Bowler" Organization: Thinkage Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <20010811091722.30ddec6c.steveo@eircom.net> <997523567snz@dsl.co.uk> <9m09hm$b4i$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9m2rom$gbf$9@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 8 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:57:36 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.102.11.4 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 999284251 192.102.11.4 (Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:57:31 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:57:31 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89127 Edward Rice wrote: > > I think that may be the case. Right through Fortran-66, the normal form > for a subscript was limited to (variable plus-or-minus constant), It was a "little" better than that. You had constant * variable plus-or-minus constant. (see section 5.1.3.3 of the Standard.) ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:57:43 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 26 Message-ID: <20010831215743.2722fd90.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9m850u$ntu$11@bob.news.rcn.net> <9meb4f$1ouc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9mg496$m4t$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9mm1i2$1g9q@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1405.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 999291892 56538 194.134.170.130 (31 Aug 2001 21:04:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 21:04:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.6.0 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.4) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89196 On 30 Aug 2001 18:44:18 GMT hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: PH> In article <9mg496$m4t$10@bob.news.rcn.net>, PH> wrote: PH> >In article <9meb4f$1ouc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, PH> > hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: PH> >>In article <9m850u$ntu$11@bob.news.rcn.net>, PH> wrote: PH> >>>In article <9m6apd$1ifs@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, PH> >>> hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: PH> >>>>In article <9ltika$oi9$6@bob.news.rcn.net>, PH> wrote: PH> >>>>That's odd. There's a bigger market for pretty undressed women PH> Well, since we've established that they're undressing, all we need to PH> do PH> is wait and see :) Too late, they've already undressed. Are you suffering a spectacular condensation problem ? -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### Message-ID: <3B90102D.79177639@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B69B776.9F86D65A@ev1.net> <9mdd6c$al3$5@bob.news.rcn.net> <1b66b935b7.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> <9mg736$fgh$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <9mm1li$1g9q@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9mnu3u$pq$4@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:33:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.179.111.125 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc2.tx.home.com 999290008 24.179.111.125 (Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:33:28 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 13:33:28 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!lon1-news.nildram.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc2.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89217 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > If you have a magic incantation that 1. gets them to call back > 2. does what you want them to 3. finishes the job > > let me know. During my more frustrating moments, I even seriously > considered marrying one of them. At least that would get a body > in the house (doesn't guarantee getting the work done but there > are chocolate cakes for that). > Call Habitat for Humanity or some such organization... I have heard of them fixing up old houses for people who can *not* do it themselves. I am *serious*...if *no* one else will help you, maybe they will... The only other thing I can think of is...if you had a friend or a relative (that you are on good terms with) in the plumbing, or electrician, or dry-wall business... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 02 Sep 01 09:41:36 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 32 Message-ID: <9mt8m5$40r$12@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B83D656.79070C98@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com> <998523293snz@dsl.co.uk> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbq3IUpkVEy2fRrm5pdY6Vofn4upiSyq6740Hvla0k0Tk/f9ThSt+MN X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Sep 2001 12:28:53 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-91 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89266 In article , Brian Inglis wrote: >On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:34:53 GMT, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton >Kelly}) wrote: > >>In article <3B83D656.79070C98@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com> >> tom@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com "Tom Ayers" writes: >> >>> I would get a user, often in a semi panic state (they would get a hard >>> disk failure message). Of course I would ask them, "Do you have a >>> backup", and you can guess the response. Then I would power the >>> computer down, wait for the drive to spin down. WHACK! Power up and >>> all would be well. Of course I would then tell them "Don't try this at >>> home". >>> >>> It earned me a strange respect around there. >> >>Ah, "percussive maintenance". I first met that, at about the age of >>11--12, when calling in at a TV repair shop each afternoon after school. >> >>"It's not knowing that one /can/ tap it, but knowing /where/ to tap it, >>that matters." > >IBM 3380 disk drives had an occasional problem with the power up >sequence relays. A sharp kick to the appropriate corner of the >cabinet usually avoided a CE call. But did it avoid a visit to the podiatrist? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 02 Sep 01 09:39:44 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 30 Message-ID: <9mt8ik$40r$11@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9lb3bo$llh$11@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVajP4gtbfhtTuTGhdIPAugRGtl2z/rmOYkRorR3SKV/4lFkT2KVTpKy X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Sep 2001 12:27:00 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-91 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89275 In article , Brian Inglis wrote: >On Tue, 14 Aug 01 09:07:02 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >>In article <997770755snz@dsl.co.uk>, >> bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: >>> >>>So the only question remaining is: how come Barbara's speaking BrEnglish? >> >>The only mystery books worth reading are those written by >>BrEnglish authors. > >You could try Lawrence Block (a few series), Stuart M. Kaminsky >(two series), John Sandford (two series), Peter Robinson, Eric >Wright (latter two Canajun Brits). Oh, there are these exceptions. (I'll have to look up the Wright guy). I was just talking about consistency. You have no idea the kinds of crap that are getting bought for the shelves over here. The most irritating of them invariably involve dogs, cats or cooking with the main character either acting like a 12-year old infected with testosterone poisoning (these are the female characters) or commiting acts of such stupidity they would have ended up in a box, jail, or mental institution. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sun, 02 Sep 01 09:39:44 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 30 Message-ID: <9mt8ik$40r$11@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9lb3bo$llh$11@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVajP4gtbfhtTuTGhdIPAugRGtl2z/rmOYkRorR3SKV/4lFkT2KVTpKy X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Sep 2001 12:27:00 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-91 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89275 In article , Brian Inglis wrote: >On Tue, 14 Aug 01 09:07:02 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >>In article <997770755snz@dsl.co.uk>, >> bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: >>> >>>So the only question remaining is: how come Barbara's speaking BrEnglish? >> >>The only mystery books worth reading are those written by >>BrEnglish authors. > >You could try Lawrence Block (a few series), Stuart M. Kaminsky >(two series), John Sandford (two series), Peter Robinson, Eric >Wright (latter two Canajun Brits). Oh, there are these exceptions. (I'll have to look up the Wright guy). I was just talking about consistency. You have no idea the kinds of crap that are getting bought for the shelves over here. The most irritating of them invariably involve dogs, cats or cooking with the main character either acting like a 12-year old infected with testosterone poisoning (these are the female characters) or commiting acts of such stupidity they would have ended up in a box, jail, or mental institution. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 22:18:34 -0600 Organization: Systematic Software Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <9lb3bo$llh$11@bob.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: h-207-148-141-25.dial.cadvision.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.cadvision.com 999404314 24232 207.148.141.25 (2 Sep 2001 04:18:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cadvision.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 04:18:34 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nntp.cadvision.com!207.228.64.17.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89244 On Tue, 14 Aug 01 09:07:02 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >In article <997770755snz@dsl.co.uk>, > bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: >> >>So the only question remaining is: how come Barbara's speaking BrEnglish? > >The only mystery books worth reading are those written by >BrEnglish authors. You could try Lawrence Block (a few series), Stuart M. Kaminsky (two series), John Sandford (two series), Peter Robinson, Eric Wright (latter two Canajun Brits). >/BAH Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov spam traps ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 22:18:36 -0600 Organization: Systematic Software Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <9lbceo$389$1@top.mitre.org> <9lbtv3$r2v$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B7C94A9.10D4B01C@home.com> <9lrcjj$3qa$1@panix3.panix.com> <3B8247EC.7BBD08FE@home.com> <20010821202452.034ee903.steveo@eircom.net> <998488463.24153.0.nnrp-08.3e31f35a@news.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: h-207-148-141-25.dial.cadvision.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.cadvision.com 999404316 24232 207.148.141.25 (2 Sep 2001 04:18:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cadvision.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 04:18:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!hekyl.ab.tac.net!nntp.cadvision.com!207.228.64.17.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89306 On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:59:40 -0500, Mike Schaeffer wrote: >On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Peter Ibbotson wrote: > >> >> >> "John Carlyle-Clarke" wrote in message >> news:Xns91055C2C49203johncceuroplacercouk@192.168.1.69... >> > I was once told a story - probably apocryphal - about a batch or model of >> > Compaq PC many years ago where some of the components were not seated in >> > their sockets properly and on some machines could cause a failure to boot. >> > Supposedly, customers calling up with this model of dead machine were told >> > to hold the box level about two feet off the ground and then release it. >> >> Much more likely to be about the Apple /// since this is well documented. > >Yes... but apparantly Compaq had problems with the power supply on their >first generation portable. Around '86-87, I heard tell of something like >29 versions of the power supply. While I find it hard to believe that it >was that hard to get it right, I guess it's possible... > >-Mike Reminds me of a software product called System W: my PPOE stayed on version 10.(something low) until I left a couple of years later, as every subsequent (about monthly) release was documented by the vendor as breaking one or more functions, and the vendor recommended regression testing all user applications before upgrading. Drove my PHB crazy as our service level agreements said we should stay within a couple of releases of the latest version of products and I refused to upgrade; the service level agreements failed to mention the key word stable. Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov spam traps ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 22:18:37 -0600 Organization: Systematic Software Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <3B83D656.79070C98@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com> <998523293snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: h-207-148-141-25.dial.cadvision.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.cadvision.com 999404318 24232 207.148.141.25 (2 Sep 2001 04:18:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cadvision.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 04:18:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nntp.cadvision.com!207.228.64.17.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89325 On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:34:53 GMT, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: >In article <3B83D656.79070C98@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com> > tom@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com "Tom Ayers" writes: > >> I would get a user, often in a semi panic state (they would get a hard >> disk failure message). Of course I would ask them, "Do you have a >> backup", and you can guess the response. Then I would power the >> computer down, wait for the drive to spin down. WHACK! Power up and >> all would be well. Of course I would then tell them "Don't try this at >> home". >> >> It earned me a strange respect around there. > >Ah, "percussive maintenance". I first met that, at about the age of >11--12, when calling in at a TV repair shop each afternoon after school. > >"It's not knowing that one /can/ tap it, but knowing /where/ to tap it, >that matters." IBM 3380 disk drives had an occasional problem with the power up sequence relays. A sharp kick to the appropriate corner of the cabinet usually avoided a CE call. Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov spam traps ###### From: lysse Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <997770755snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lb3bo$llh$11@bob.news.rcn.net> <9mt8ik$40r$11@bob.news.rcn.net> Organization: lysse's domain Reply-To: lysse.news@blueyonder.co.uk User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980226 (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.6 (i486)) Message-ID: <2dgtm9.qsg.ln@setter.lysse.co.uk> Lines: 29 Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 15:32:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.31.9.47 X-Complaints-To: http://www.blueyonder.co.uk/abuse X-Trace: news1.cableinet.net 999444737 62.31.9.47 (Sun, 02 Sep 2001 16:32:17 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 16:32:17 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!shale.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!internal-news-hub.cableinet.net!news1.cableinet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89290 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: (re.contemporary crime fiction) > The most irritating of them invariably > involve dogs, cats Amen! Much as I love my three cats, there's only so much cat stuff you can read without suffering saccharine poisoning (Lilian von Braun springs to mind). However, I found two books worth reading which features cats as the main characters. "Felidae" and "Felindae on the Road" are excellent pieces of writing, neither cutesy nor worshipful; I can't remember the name of the author, but it definitely had too few vowels in it. > or cooking with the main character either > acting like a 12-year old infected with testosterone poisoning > (these are the female characters) or commiting acts of such > stupidity they would have ended up in a box, jail, or mental > institution. And I found one which to cap all of that, was also written in an appallingly amateurish style that I am amazed escaped the proofreaders. I finished it to see if it would get better. It didn't. Two hours I can never get back... -- lysse at lysse dot co dot uk "Why are your problems always so much bigger than everyone else's?" "Because they're mine." -- Ally McBeal ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: bill@wjv.com (Bill Vermillion) Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Reply-To: bv@wjv.com Organization: W.J.Vermillion - Orlando / Winter Park Message-ID: References: <3B846698.BE7A25D9@yahoo.com> <3B864F70.E3A34B86@uk.sun.com> <998697500snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B89C620.9170060B@ev1.net> Lines: 24 Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:21:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 157.238.210.222 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: iad-read.news.verio.net 999449646 157.238.210.222 (Sun, 02 Sep 2001 16:54:06 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 16:54:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!24.226.1.12!feed.cgocable.net!out.nntp.be!propagator-dallas!news-in-dallas.newsfeeds.com!in.nntp.be!easynews!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!iad-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!nosuchsite!bill Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89313 In article <3B89C620.9170060B@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: >> >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> >> (The engineer who serviced it said it was the biggest 905 in existence, >> since we'd added 256kW of storage (and adapted the hardware for the >> requisite 18-bit addressing vice the original 17-bit), card reader, the >> aforementioned Logabax, the Bryant 18Mb head-per-track disk, four Ampex >> tapes (which originally did only 200/556, and were again modified on site >> to do 1600 as well.) >Well, I guess we have to admit that a head-per-track drive must have a >very short seek time... (;-)) But it didn't rotate very fast. And old engineer told me that on machine they had years ago that the data was on head track four times to make up for rotational latency. This was in a process control environment. -- Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 03 Sep 01 09:40:52 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 41 Message-ID: <9mvt11$1br$14@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B846698.BE7A25D9@yahoo.com> <3B864F70.E3A34B86@uk.sun.com> <998697500snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B89C620.9170060B@ev1.net> <3B93243D.36694987@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVayLTGBM9CyalTvUs0b+judsIOAfSSfpdTDFJnz0MQMTz+Gc2KhgVCs X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Sep 2001 12:28:17 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!netnews.com!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-175 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89407 In article <3B93243D.36694987@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >Bill Vermillion wrote: >> >> In article <3B89C620.9170060B@ev1.net>, >> Charles Richmond wrote: >> >Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: >> >> >> >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> >> >> >> (The engineer who serviced it said it was the biggest 905 in existence, >> >> since we'd added 256kW of storage (and adapted the hardware for the >> >> requisite 18-bit addressing vice the original 17-bit), card reader, the >> >> aforementioned Logabax, the Bryant 18Mb head-per-track disk, four Ampex >> >> tapes (which originally did only 200/556, and were again modified on site >> >> to do 1600 as well.) >> >> >Well, I guess we have to admit that a head-per-track drive must have a >> >very short seek time... (;-)) >> >> But it didn't rotate very fast. And old engineer told me that on >> machine they had years ago that the data was on head track four >> times to make up for rotational latency. This was in a process >> control environment. >> >That must have been great for *reading* the information...but *hell* >for writing the information and keeping the *four* copies in sync... >What if you need to *read* the info before *all* four copies are >updated??? Could you pick up an old copy from the drum??? In TOPS-10 here were different approaches depending on if it was OK to read an old copy of the file. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 03 Sep 01 09:38:30 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 31 Message-ID: <9mvssj$1br$13@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3B846698.BE7A25D9@yahoo.com> <3B864F70.E3A34B86@uk.sun.com> <998697500snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B89C620.9170060B@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbzZgckip3bUev2KJExlZ9vhHQyS59/N2+igKyjyzTMpGbh66qMuLXY X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Sep 2001 12:25:55 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-175 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89434 In article , bill@wjv.com (Bill Vermillion) wrote: >In article <3B89C620.9170060B@ev1.net>, >Charles Richmond wrote: >>Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: >>> >>> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >>> >>> (The engineer who serviced it said it was the biggest 905 in existence, >>> since we'd added 256kW of storage (and adapted the hardware for the >>> requisite 18-bit addressing vice the original 17-bit), card reader, the >>> aforementioned Logabax, the Bryant 18Mb head-per-track disk, four Ampex >>> tapes (which originally did only 200/556, and were again modified on site >>> to do 1600 as well.) > >>Well, I guess we have to admit that a head-per-track drive must have a >>very short seek time... (;-)) > >But it didn't rotate very fast. And old engineer told me that on >machine they had years ago that the data was on head track four >times to make up for rotational latency. This was in a process >control environment. You might be interested in taking a look at TW's disk device drivers in TOPS-10. I remember him working very hard trying to optimize his disk geometry with the controllers. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Mon, 03 Sep 01 09:36:58 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 40 Message-ID: <9mvspn$1br$12@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <997770755snz@dsl.co.uk> <9lb3bo$llh$11@bob.news.rcn.net> <9mt8ik$40r$11@bob.news.rcn.net> <2dgtm9.qsg.ln@setter.lysse.co.uk> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbxMcC/hu5XbVyT+cgUkDEI/szuXJLI/vz8CxJGoj8TMS7Rz6D3/3xg X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Sep 2001 12:24:23 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-175 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89435 In article <2dgtm9.qsg.ln@setter.lysse.co.uk>, lysse wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >(re.contemporary crime fiction) >> The most irritating of them invariably >> involve dogs, cats > >Amen! Much as I love my three cats, there's only so much cat stuff >you can read without suffering saccharine poisoning (Lilian von >Braun springs to mind). She produces fine puzzles; but her characters have been aging backwards with each new volume. > >However, I found two books worth reading which features cats as >the main characters. "Felidae" and "Felindae on the Road" are >excellent pieces of writing, neither cutesy nor worshipful; I >can't remember the name of the author, but it definitely had >too few vowels in it. I'll look for them. > >> or cooking with the main character either >> acting like a 12-year old infected with testosterone poisoning >> (these are the female characters) or commiting acts of such >> stupidity they would have ended up in a box, jail, or mental >> institution. > >And I found one which to cap all of that, was also written in an >appallingly amateurish style that I am amazed escaped the >proofreaders. I finished it to see if it would get better. It >didn't. Two hours I can never get back... Oh, I always scan the last chapter before I read the middle. I can't stand not-knowing ;-) /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Message-ID: <3B93243D.36694987@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B846698.BE7A25D9@yahoo.com> <3B864F70.E3A34B86@uk.sun.com> <998697500snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B89C620.9170060B@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 32 Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 04:35:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.179.111.125 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc2.tx.home.com 999491753 24.179.111.125 (Sun, 02 Sep 2001 21:35:53 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 21:35:53 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!f.de.uu.net!howland.erols.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc2.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89519 Bill Vermillion wrote: > > In article <3B89C620.9170060B@ev1.net>, > Charles Richmond wrote: > >Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: > >> > >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > >> > >> (The engineer who serviced it said it was the biggest 905 in existence, > >> since we'd added 256kW of storage (and adapted the hardware for the > >> requisite 18-bit addressing vice the original 17-bit), card reader, the > >> aforementioned Logabax, the Bryant 18Mb head-per-track disk, four Ampex > >> tapes (which originally did only 200/556, and were again modified on site > >> to do 1600 as well.) > > >Well, I guess we have to admit that a head-per-track drive must have a > >very short seek time... (;-)) > > But it didn't rotate very fast. And old engineer told me that on > machine they had years ago that the data was on head track four > times to make up for rotational latency. This was in a process > control environment. > That must have been great for *reading* the information...but *hell* for writing the information and keeping the *four* copies in sync... What if you need to *read* the info before *all* four copies are updated??? Could you pick up an old copy from the drum??? -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B846698.BE7A25D9@yahoo.com> <3B864F70.E3A34B86@uk.sun.com> <998697500snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B89C620.9170060B@ev1.net> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 202 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 15:47:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.174.226.38 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 999532047 199.174.226.38 (Mon, 03 Sep 2001 08:47:27 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 08:47:27 PDT X-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 08:43:52 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89431 bill@wjv.com (Bill Vermillion) writes: > > But it didn't rotate very fast. And old engineer told me that on > machine they had years ago that the data was on head track four > times to make up for rotational latency. This was in a process > control environment. the ibm count-key-data (CKD) disks tended to have same number of bytes on each track ... but you can physically format the records on each track. for random access arm efficiency there tended to be some games. An example is original 3330. 19 tracks per cylinder (i.e. arm position, 19 heads, one head per track, actually a 20th head&track for position sensing). You could format three 4k records per track plus a little left over. The standard I/O sequence involved channel command words or CCWs. A typical record access CCW program (for 4k pages) might look like: Seek (cylinder) set sector search-id equal tic *-8 read/write 4k nop if you formated each track the same ... you knew the approximate rotational angle of each record ahead of time and could specify it in the "set sector" command. The "search-id equal" was a CKD command that allowed some pretty fancy outboard record searching operations ... but the trivial case is you knew the record number and just wanted it. The "tic *-8" was a branch if the search was not succesful. Then the read/write command. It was also possible to "chain" sequences together for records on the same track or cylinder ... basically changing the "nop" to a tic/branch command to the start of the next CCW package (i.e. seek command). The original design had the CCW sequences (and the CCW arguments, like the parameters for the seek, set sector and search-id commands) all stored in main processor memory and the "channel" processor sequentially retrieving each CCW one at a time and interpreting it. Note that all the time the "channel" processor was retrieving and interpreting the channel commands (and their parameters), disks were rortating. If the channel was slow enuf, it was possible (when doing sequential record processing) that the next sequential record had rotated passed the disk head while the channel was still processing the CCW command sequences. To compensate for this, disks were sometimes formated with short, dummy "filler" records between the normal data records (and assigned IDs that wouldn't be normally used by search-id commands). In the 3330, 4k page record case, 50-byte dummy filler records were standard. This allowed the channel extra latency while processing normal CCW sequences to get to the search-id for the next sequential record before it had rotated passed the head; at least for sequential records on the same track. However, for "sequential" records on the same cylinder, but different track, there was also extra channel & disk controller latency that resulted in the next sequential record to rotate past the head (even with 50-byte dummy filler records). With 4k-byte data records, the maximum sized dummy filler records was 110-byte before exhausting the maximum track length capacity on 3330s. Things now got processor and controller sensitive. Some processor channels and some PCM (plug compatible manufactor) 3330s were fast enuf that they could process the switch head operation before the next sequential data record had rotated past the head (using 110-byte dummy filler records); and some combinations had too much processing latency and would result in a "rotational miss" and have to go around an extra time. In general 4341 & 370/168 channels were fast enough that they could sequentially access data records on adjacent tracks. 370/158s channels weren't normally fast enuf ... although some PCM 3330 controllers in combination with 158 channels could process the next (rotational) sequential data record on adjacent tracks (same cylinder, different track). When the 303x machines were introduced, all of them exhibited the 3330 rotational access characteristic of the 370/158. The 370/158 had "integrated" channels where the 158 native (horizontal microcoded) processor engine was shared between emulating 370 instructions and emulation CCW I/O instructions. The 4341 had integrated channels, but were sufficient fast enuf implementation that it wasn't a problem. The 168 had dedicated, outboard hardware "channels". 3330 filler record discussion http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#7 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?" http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#12 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?" http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#44 Charging for time-share CPU time http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#69 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic) Something similar was done on the 2305 fixed-head disk that was normally used as a dedicated paging device and was formated with dummy filler/spacer records. The 2305 also had eight "logical" addresses. It was possible to schedule (queued) requests on all eight "logical" addresses and have the hardware manage which requests to service. The normal, ibm channel sequence was that after the previous CCW operation had finished, there was a series of events involving hardware interrupts, software processing, and other latency introducing events before the next queued request was (re-)driven on the I/O interface (all the time the disks were rotating). misc. 2305 discussion http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#31 Big I/O or Kicking the Mainframe out the Door http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#8 3330 Disk Drives http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#6 3330 Disk Drives http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#104 Fixed Head Drive (Was: Re:Power distribution (Was: Re: A primeval C compiler) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#7 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?" http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#52 IBM 650 (was: Re: IBM--old computer manuals) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#53 IBM 650 (was: Re: IBM--old computer manuals) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#42 4M pages are a bad idea (was Re: AMD 64bit Hammer CPU and VM) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#17 database (or b-tree) page sizes redrive latency discussion http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#24 CP spooling & programming technology http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#12 slot chaining http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#19 IBM 4381 (finger-check) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#183 Clustering systems http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#75 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#45 4M pages are a bad idea (was Re: AMD 64bit Hammer CPU and VM) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#69 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#28 checking some myths. For the 303x line of machines, they took the processing engine from the 158 and created a "channel director" ... i.e. an outboard dedicated box that only performed CCW channel operations. The 303x channel directors (on all processor models) all shared the same channel director implementation (a somewhat repackaged 370/158 engine). The 3031 was a revamped 370/158 where there was a dedicated processing engine for executing 370 instructions and the same processing engine outboard in a "channel director" dedicated for doing I/O. The 3031 had faster 370 processing execution (than the 370/158) ... but the channel director exhibited the same processing latency as the 370/158. misc. 158/3031 processor comparison http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#0 Is a VAX a mainframe? The 3032 was essential a 370/168 that was configured to use the 303x outboard channel directors rather than the 370/168 outboard channel boxes. The 3033 started out being a 370/168 wiring diagram remapped to faster chip technology (as well as using 303x channel directors) ... but was enhanced along the way to improve its performance. misc. 303x discussions http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#14 S/360 addressing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#7 IBM 7090 (360s, 370s, apl, etc) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#3 What is an IBM 137/148 ??? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#20 Why Mainframes? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#50 Edsger Dijkstra: the blackest week of his professional life http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#7 IBM S/360 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#74 Read if over 40 and have Mainframe background http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#75 Read if over 40 and have Mainframe background http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#103 IBM 9020 computers used by FAA (was Re: EPO stories (was: HELP IT'S HOT!!!!!)) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#110 OS/360 names and error codes (was: Humorous and/or Interesting Opcodes) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#112 OS/360 names and error codes (was: Humorous and/or Interesting Opcodes) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#187 Merced Processor Support at it again . . . http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#188 Merced Processor Support at it again . . . http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#190 Merced Processor Support at it again . . . http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#78 Mainframe operating systems http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#37 How to learn assembler language for OS/390 ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#65 oddly portable machines http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#35 What level of computer is needed for a computer to Love? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#44 WHAT IS A MAINFRAME??? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#69 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#75 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#83 Is a VAX a mainframe? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#0 Is a VAX a mainframe? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#7 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?" http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#12 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?" http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#21 S/360 development burnout? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#61 "all-out" vs less aggressive designs (was: Re: 36 to 32 bit transition) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#82 "all-out" vs less aggressive designs (was: Re: 36 to 32 bit transition) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#57 Why not an IBM zSeries workstation? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#58 Why not an IBM zSeries workstation? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#11 360/370 instruction cycle time http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#28 Could CDR-coding be on the way back? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#29 Could CDR-coding be on the way back? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#63 Are the L1 and L2 caches flushed on a page fault ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#37 John Mashey's greatest hits http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#39 John Mashey's greatest hits http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#69 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#83 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#1 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#3 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#54 VM & VSE news http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#55 VM & VSE news http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#9 MIP rating on old S/370s http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#13 GETMAIN R/RU (was: An IEABRC Adventure) getting blaimed for originating the 360 plug compatable manufactor (PCM) business: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#360pcm -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 3 Sep 2001 17:08:26 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 21 Message-ID: <9n0dea$3d3$1@top.mitre.org> References: <3B83D656.79070C98@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com> <998523293snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 999536906 3491 128.29.251.13 (3 Sep 2001 17:08:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Sep 2001 17:08:26 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89354 Brian Inglis writes: >IBM 3380 disk drives had an occasional problem with the power up >sequence relays. A sharp kick to the appropriate corner of the >cabinet usually avoided a CE call. This can go in the other direction as well. My PPOE at one time had an IBM 7040, and one summer had an employee named Smith. (No, not his real name, since some readers from the Mill might recognize it.) The significance of these two conditions was this: Smith had something go wrong with one of his programs, and hauled off and kicked the skirt of the CPU somewhere near the second bay. His choice for point of impact was close to the AC power relays, and the vibration he caused was enough to cause them to open, thus turning the entire computer off. That location was forever known as the "Smith Point". Joe Morris ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 19:56:56 -0600 Organization: Systematic Software Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <3B83D656.79070C98@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com> <998523293snz@dsl.co.uk> <9mt8m5$40r$12@bob.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: h-207-148-129-39.dial.cadvision.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.cadvision.com 999655018 10212 207.148.129.39 (5 Sep 2001 01:56:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cadvision.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 01:56:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!f.de.uu.net!howland.erols.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nntp.cadvision.com!207.228.64.17.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89668 On Sun, 02 Sep 01 09:41:36 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >In article , > Brian Inglis wrote: >>On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:34:53 GMT, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton >>Kelly}) wrote: >> >>>In article <3B83D656.79070C98@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com> >>> tom@SPAMBEGONE.polyflow.com "Tom Ayers" writes: >>> >>>> I would get a user, often in a semi panic state (they would get a hard >>>> disk failure message). Of course I would ask them, "Do you have a >>>> backup", and you can guess the response. Then I would power the >>>> computer down, wait for the drive to spin down. WHACK! Power up and >>>> all would be well. Of course I would then tell them "Don't try this at >>>> home". >>>> >>>> It earned me a strange respect around there. >>> >>>Ah, "percussive maintenance". I first met that, at about the age of >>>11--12, when calling in at a TV repair shop each afternoon after school. >>> >>>"It's not knowing that one /can/ tap it, but knowing /where/ to tap it, >>>that matters." >> >>IBM 3380 disk drives had an occasional problem with the power up >>sequence relays. A sharp kick to the appropriate corner of the >>cabinet usually avoided a CE call. > > But did it avoid a visit to the podiatrist? Incorrectly applied, it would have required a visit to the emergency room! These were 6'x4'x2' IBM iron frames. Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian.Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) fake address use address above to reply tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov spam traps ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 06 Sep 01 13:21:15 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 69 Message-ID: <3877.649T754T8013715@nowhere.in.particular> References: <3B846698.BE7A25D9@yahoo.com> <3B864F70.E3A34B86@uk.sun.com> <998697500snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B89C620.9170060B@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-622.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.online.be!64.154.60.72.MISMATCH!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!msc1.onvoy!ply1.onvoy!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:89870 In article lynn@garlic.com (Anne & Lynn Wheeler) writes: >the ibm count-key-data (CKD) disks tended to have same number of bytes >on each track ... but you can physically format the records on each >track. for random access arm efficiency there tended to be some games. Programming CKD disks was a lot of fun (in some sense or other). When designing a new file layout, it was an interesting (and critical) exercise to choose appropriate record and block sizes. Choosing the wrong block size could result in a lot of wasted space. I wrote a utility which would calculate how many blocks would fit on a track, taking inter-block gaps into account, which made the process a lot easier. Making an mirror image of a CKD disk was a tricky job, because unlike today's fixed-sectored disks, each physical record could have a different size. The standard Univac backup utility took an hour to copy an 8414 (IBM 2314 clone) pack because of all the effort it took to figure out the format of each track. However, I got my hands on a fast copy utility which could do the job in 11 minutes. It did so by issuing a series of 100 read count CCWs. (The count field preceded the actual record, and contained the record's address and the key and data lengths). Each CCW had the multitrack bit set, so after the count field for the last record on a track was read, the drive would switch to the next head and continue reading. This very quickly pulled record formatting information into a neat array of 8-byte entries in memory. The program then used this information to build a read count/key/data CCW chain specifically tailored to pull in the current track in a single disk revolution. By changing the command codes from read C/K/D to write C/K/D, the chain was then used to write the entire track to the destination drive. If there were enough count fields left from the read count step above, the process would repeat for the next track; otherwise another set of 100 count fields would be read and the whole process would repeat until the end of the cylinder was reached. I converted the program from the Univac 9400 to the 9300, and sped it up to 8 minutes per copy by reading the alternate track tables at the start of the run, so that I knew right away whether to seek to an alternate track, rather than testing each track as I read it (which cost another disk revolution). Being a callow youth at the time, I sent the program off to Univac, who used it in place of their 60-minute copy utility in the next release - but without any credit to me. Then there was the CCW chain which I stole from a boot loader, and used in any of my programs which accessed disks using physical IOCS. This chain would seek to cylinder 0, head 0, track 3 and read in the VOL1 label, which contained the location of the volume table of contents. The seek command needed a couple of extra zero bytes in front of the cylinder number (unused except maybe by data cells and such), and to clear them the chain would issue a couple of reads which were known to return at least one zero. This cost a couple of revolutions, but that was small change - because the next thing the chain did was seek to the start of the VTOC and go into a search key equal / TIC loop with the multitrack bit set. This would search the entire VTOC (which for us was always one cylinder), and if it found the desired file's format 1 label, it would then read it in. This made for some fast file opens. On the other hand, it was fun to try for a non-existent file, while opening the doors of the disk controller cabinet to reveal the display of the currently-accessed head. You could see the display do a very rapid count from 0 to 19, as the drive flipped from track to track at hardware speeds. -- cgibbs@nowhere.in.particular (Charlie Gibbs) I'm switching ISPs - watch this space. ###### From: JohnSRoberts@worldnet.att.net (John S. Roberts) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... Date: 8 Sep 2001 03:26:40 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 36 Message-ID: <89440c84.0109080226.3f0b6a9a@posting.google.com> References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> <3b80cafa.372239913@news.shuswap.net> <998340052snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B82F2DC.AD52A4FF@ev1.net> <488.633T2604T13866345@nowhere.in.particular> <20010822203001.53356da4.steveo@eircom.net> <3B874617.737F7BCC@ev1.net> <20010827194402.2a67e065.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.73.246.53 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 999944801 5716 127.0.0.1 (8 Sep 2001 10:26:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Sep 2001 10:26:41 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:90062 Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote in message news:<20010827194402.2a67e065.steveo@eircom.net>... > On Sat, 25 Aug 2001 04:33:01 GMT > Charles Richmond wrote: > > CR> Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > CR> > Yep, didn't we just go round this a little while ago ? > CR> > > CR> Yes, except some British bloke mentioned that natural gas > CR> in Briton smelled of garlic...now *that* does *not* smell > > It most certainly does not, garlic is quite pleasant in suitable > quantities, mercaptans OTOH. > > CR> like Mercaptan. It was said that Britain used Butal Mercaptan, > CR> but IIRC, in the U.S. we use Ethyl Mercaptan... > > Hmm, Butyl is found in skunks and well known, ethyl is lighter and > more volatile and (AIUI - I have *not* made a personal comparison) smellier. > That would seem to make ethyl the mercaptan of choice unless there is a cheap > supply of butyl. For some reason I have never come across propyl mercaptan > or methyl mercaptan. Actually, the odor being referred to in the UK is a mixture of materials, developed by British Gas (then). The garlic odor is diethyl sulfide. The odorant in the UK has been changed really recently and this should be a thing of the past. The odorant(s) used in the US are comprised mostly of t-butyl mercaptan, isopropyl mercaptan or thiophane and mixtures thereof. Ethyl mercaptan is not used to odorize natural gas in the United States, but is used to odorized propane and butane. Skunks produce amyl mercaptans. John Roberts ###### Message-ID: <3B9BA323.5C90DA9C@ev1.net> From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYGOW... References: <3B7C3B64.FB20F906@ev1.net> <9lmfh7$mvb$1@top.mitre.org> <3b80cafa.372239913@news.shuswap.net> <998340052snz@dsl.co.uk> <3B82F2DC.AD52A4FF@ev1.net> <488.633T2604T13866345@nowhere.in.particular> <20010822203001.53356da4.steveo@eircom.net> <3B874617.737F7BCC@ev1.net> <20010827194402.2a67e065.steveo@eircom.net> <89440c84.0109080226.3f0b6a9a@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 15:15:33 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.179.111.125 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc2.tx.home.com 1000048533 24.179.111.125 (Sun, 09 Sep 2001 08:15:33 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 08:15:33 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc2.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:90075 "John S. Roberts" wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > Actually, the odor being referred to in the UK is a mixture of > materials, developed by British Gas (then). The garlic odor is > diethyl sulfide. The odorant in the UK has been changed really > recently and this should be a thing of the past. > > The odorant(s) used in the US are comprised mostly of t-butyl > mercaptan, isopropyl mercaptan or thiophane and mixtures thereof. > Ethyl mercaptan is not used to odorize natural gas in the United > States, but is used to odorized propane and butane. > > Skunks produce amyl mercaptans. > Thanks for clearing this up... (sniff, sniff...) In the U.S., we refer to the compounds as "stench" instead of "oderants". I have always liked the word "mercaptan", but of course *not* the smell... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+