From: Andrei Heilper Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: What was object oriented in iAPX432? Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 22:48:52 +0300 Organization: NetVision Israel Lines: 8 Message-ID: <3B3CDBA4.84F81136@netvision.net.il> NNTP-Posting-Host: ras1-p10.hfa.netvision.net.il Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.netvision.net.il 993848936 12671 62.0.96.10 (29 Jun 2001 21:08:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@netvision.net.il NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Jun 2001 21:08:56 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-feeds.jump.net!uunet!dfw.uu.net!ash.uu.net!dca.uu.net!news-feed.netvision.net.il!194.90.1.15.MISMATCH!news!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84563 The commercials of the ill-fated iAPX432 described it as object oriented. Can somebody sunnarize these obhect orienetdd features, specifically which instructions were obejct oriented? Regards, Andrei ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was object oriented in iAPX432? References: <3B3CDBA4.84F81136@netvision.net.il> Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 30 Jun 2001 17:13:11 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 88 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 30 Jun 2001 17:35:34 -0700, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!news.kjsl.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84759 Andrei Heilper writes: > The commercials of the ill-fated iAPX432 described it as object > oriented. > Can somebody sunnarize these obhect orienetdd features, specifically > which instructions were obejct oriented? Just about *everything* about it was object-oriented. The only way you could refer to memory was as objects. It was not posible for an instruction to store 37 in memory location 116, for example. Since it is very much a non von Neuman architecture, the concept doesn't even apply. Objects were referenced by access descriptors (ADs), which are capabilites. They effectively point to an object but also control the access rights for the holder fo the descriptor. In other words, different parts of the system might have different access descriptors for the same object, with different rights. Objects had a data part and an access part. The data part could contain any computational data, but could not contain access descriptors. The access part could ONLY contain access descriptors. You could store an image of an access descriptor into a data part, but there is no way to actually dereference it from there, or to copy it into an access part. Object creation was handled by microcode. Object deletion was by a parallel garbage collector using Dijktra's algorithm. The garbage collector and other key components of the OS could bypass some of the usual protection mechanisms through the use of access descriptors to the object tables. Note that there was no hardware or microcode distinction between OS and user code - there is no "supervisor" mode. The protection works because the OS does not give out access descriptors to any of the critical structures, and there is no way for a task that does not have an AD to an object table to construct "fake" ADs. Some information on the 432 is available on my web site, including a student project (reproduced by permission of the authors) that serves as an introduction. http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/intel/iapx432/ But to answer your specific question, the instructions that were generally classified as "object instructions" in the 432 release 3 architecture were: Copy_Access_Descriptor Null_Access_Descriptor Amplify_Rights Restrict_Rights Retrieve_Type_Definition Create_Refinement Create_Typed_Refinement Create_Object Create_Typed_Object Inspect_Access_Descriptor Inspect_Object Equal_Access Move_to_Embedded_Data_Value Move_from_Embedded_Data_Value Lock_Object Unlock_Object Enter_Environment_1 Enter_Environment_2 Enter_Environment_3 Copy_Process_Globals Set_Context_Mode Adjust_Stack_Pointer Call Call_Through_Domain Return Return_and_Fault Send Receive Conditional_Send Conditional_Receive Surrogate_Sed Surrogate_Receive Delay_Process Send_Process Set_Process_Mode Read_Process_Clock Send_to_Processor Read_Processor_Status Move_to_Interconnect Move_from_Interconnect Note that the above list does not include object operations performed by the processor automatically, rather than caused by an instruction, such as process dispatching. Eric ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was object oriented in iAPX432? Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:36:21 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Sender: Pete Fenelon References: <3B3CDBA4.84F81136@netvision.net.il> User-Agent: tin/1.5.8-20010221 ("Blue Water") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-STABLE (i386)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 26 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84712 Eric Smith wrote: > > Objects were referenced by access descriptors (ADs), which are capabilites. > They effectively point to an object but also control the access rights > for the holder fo the descriptor. In other words, different parts of the > system might have different access descriptors for the same object, with > different rights. Excellent summary, Eric. There are a lot of claims that the descriptor table mechanism on the 286 and up were intended to be a migration path to the iAPX432's capability model - I'm not 100% convinced; they're *orders of magnitude* less powerful than the 432's models. A lot of the 432 ideas are paralleled in the IBM S/36 and S/38 which of course gave rise to the AS/400 -- but on the IBMs the object orientation is at the "system" level rather than purely in hardware (esp. as modern AS/400s are PowerPCs!). The Plessey 250 was capability based in a fairly similar way to the 432 too, but it was slightly older technology :) and it was actually fairly difficult to find anyone even inside Plessey who knew much about it (I spent several tedious summer vacations working for part of Plessey as an undergrad in the 80s.) pete ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was object oriented in iAPX432? References: <3B3CDBA4.84F81136@netvision.net.il> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 37 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 01:16:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.156.38.126 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 994036615 64.156.38.126 (Sun, 01 Jul 2001 18:16:55 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 18:16:55 PDT X-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 18:14:43 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84536 Pete Fenelon writes: > > A lot of the 432 ideas are paralleled in the IBM S/36 and S/38 which of course > gave rise to the AS/400 -- but on the IBMs the object orientation is at the > "system" level rather than purely in hardware (esp. as modern AS/400s are > PowerPCs!). The Plessey 250 was capability based in a fairly similar way to > the 432 too, but it was slightly older technology :) and it was actually > fairly difficult to find anyone even inside Plessey who knew much about it > (I spent several tedious summer vacations working for part of Plessey > as an undergrad in the 80s.) as an aside much of the s/38 was taken from the canceled FS (future system) project. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#24 old manuals http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#100 Why won't the AS/400 die? Or, It's 1999 why do I have to learn how to use http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#237 I can't believe this newsgroup still exists. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#3 Computer of the century http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#16 [OT] FS - IBM Future System http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#17 [OT] FS - IBM Future System http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#18 OT? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#21 OT? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#27 OT? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#28 OT? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#30 OT? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#37 OT? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#40 Famous Machines and Software that didn't http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#56 TSS ancient history, was X86 ultimate CISC? designs) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#18 360/370 instruction cycle time http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#44 IBM was/is: Imitation... http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#4 Block oriented I/O over IP http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#30 IBM's "VM for the PC" c.1984?? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#33 IBM's "VM for the PC" c.1984?? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#43 Golden Era of Compilers -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### From: J Ahlstrom Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was object oriented in iAPX432? Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 14:43:00 -0700 Organization: Cisco Systems Inc. Message-ID: <3B44DF64.59A83F5D@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3B3CDBA4.84F81136@netvision.net.il> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: sj-nntpcache-3!unknown@dhcp-171-68-135-147.cisco.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 18 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84306 Back in the good old days, the litmus test for object-orientedness was the association of code+data in objects. Where were the code descirptors stored? -- We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.