Message-ID: <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:51:25 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.2 AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <9fla1b$ioe$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <8vnlf9.4v.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <9ft9fc$hh1$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gboic01o7c@enews1.newsguy.com> <3B29AA35.65307ECD@trailing-edge.com> <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 59 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: reader2.news.uu.net 992717485 171 63.73.218.130 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!news-hub.siol.net!zur.uu.net!ash.uu.net!spool0.news.uu.net!reader2.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:83793 glass2@glass2.lexington.ibm.com wrote: > One approach to generating passwords is to take a large list (1000) > of short words (3 or 4 character), make two selections from it, and > then concatenate them to form a password. This results in a > pronouncable password that's easier to remember than a random > collection of characters. And, if you start with a list of 1000 > words and choose two of them to concatenate, the chance of someone > guessing your password, even if they have the lists, is > approximately one million to one (which is a lot safer than using > your wife's name or the current date). Most Unix-type systems that I've dealt with recently don't allow you to set your password to anything containing a non-negligible dictionary word. (Obviously you have to allow "I" and "A" and other very short words to appear in passwords!). For instance, under RedHat Linux 7.1 (with me purposefully allowing echoing of proposed bad passwords): [shoppa]$ passwd Changing password for shoppa (current) UNIX password: New UNIX password:hellotim BAD PASSWORD: it is based on a dictionary word New UNIX password:timshoppa BAD PASSWORD: it is based on your username New UNIX password:redbluegreen BAD PASSWORD: it is based on a dictionary word passwd: Authentication token manipulation error > There are other techniques, such as using an algorithm to randomly > string character strings together You have to be *very* careful with what your random number generator is. Books have been written about all the lousy random number algorithms in common use. > in the pattern CVCCVC, where C is > a consonant, and V is a vowel. The nonsense words formed tend to > result in pronouncable passwords, also. VMS has had, for the past two decades or so, something similar to this under SET PASSWORD/GENERATE. Admittedly, not all of them are pronouncable, but usually in ten or fifteen I'll see one that I like. $ set password/generate Old password: flunctal nobablee reattery impagian spesily Choose a password from this list, or press RETURN to get a new list New password: Tim. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: 17 Jun 2001 00:01:26 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 45 Message-ID: <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <9fla1b$ioe$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <8vnlf9.4v.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <9ft9fc$hh1$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gboic01o7c@enews1.newsguy.com> <3B29AA35.65307ECD@trailing-edge.com> <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 992728886 1434 10.0.3.2 (16 Jun 2001 22:01:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Jun 2001 22:01:26 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:83899 Tim Shoppa writes: > glass2@glass2.lexington.ibm.com wrote: > > One approach to generating passwords is to take a large list (1000) > > of short words (3 or 4 character), make two selections from it, and > > [shoppa]$ passwd > Changing password for shoppa > (current) UNIX password: > New UNIX password:hellotim > BAD PASSWORD: it is based on a dictionary word > New UNIX password:timshoppa > BAD PASSWORD: it is based on your username > New UNIX password:redbluegreen > BAD PASSWORD: it is based on a dictionary word > passwd: Authentication token manipulation error "We do not want weak passwords here". > > in the pattern CVCCVC, where C is > > a consonant, and V is a vowel. The nonsense words formed tend to > > result in pronouncable passwords, also. Also reduces possible passwords from 6^26 to 4^21 * 2^5. Nice for the brute force on 1000 broken-in accounts kiddies. The method I prefer is to take an easy memorisable sentance and then take the first letter (or few letters) from each word. Possibly then substitute a few numbers or punctuation symbols. An old example from an text I wrote (in german): Dies ISt EIn HAckerSicheres Passwort -> diseihasp -> di5e1hasP Translation: This is a hackersafe password -> tihasapwo -> t1ha5aPw0 -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:18:43 +0100 Organization: All yuor pie are belong to us!! Message-ID: References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 992779272 nnrp-07:4253 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test75 (Feb 13, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:83918 According to Neil Franklin : > An old example from an text I wrote (in german): > > Dies ISt EIn HAckerSicheres Passwort -> diseihasp -> di5e1hasP > > Translation: > > This is a hackersafe password -> tihasapwo -> t1ha5aPw0 I used similar passwords at one place I worked, but the other team members objected on the grounds that "we don't need no steenkin' military-grade passwords here." Still, the "acceptable" passwords were still pretty secure, and a far cry from the bad old days when an administrative password of "xyz123" was considered pretty unbreakable... Chris. -- //USENET01 JOB (CBH,ISA),'TALKING BOLLOCKS',REGION=4000K,CLASS=F, // MSGCLASS=A,PASSWORD=WIBBLE,USER=CBH,COND=(04,LT) ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:37:29 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <992738249snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 992783499 mail2news:5070 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:83961 In article <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> shoppa@trailing-edge.com "Tim Shoppa" writes: > You have to be *very* careful with what your random number generator > is. Books have been written about all the lousy random number > algorithms in common use. Indeed; IIRC, DEK devotes about 200 pages to just this problem. He was especially critical of the RAND function in most implementations of FORTRAN. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:28:50 -0500 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <9fla1b$ioe$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <8vnlf9.4v.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <9ft9fc$hh1$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gboic01o7c@enews1.newsguy.com> <3B29AA35.65307ECD@trailing-edge.com> <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZ3uMt46vSuac1m0Bn5NTTqC5SaL+6jXnmFJf23FV1bGjXDdeQ0WV99 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jun 2001 01:28:56 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:83963 On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:51:25 -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote: >VMS has had, for the past two decades or so, something similar >to this under SET PASSWORD/GENERATE. Admittedly, not all of them >are pronouncable, but usually in ten or fifteen I'll see one that >I like. Do you have any idea where I find a copy of the source for that password generator? Or, if nothing else, a copy of the EXE and an instruction guide for the cpu. -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 08:18:15 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 11 Message-ID: <20010617081815.6db04d70.steveo@eircom.net> References: <9fla1b$ioe$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <8vnlf9.4v.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <9ft9fc$hh1$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gboic01o7c@enews1.newsguy.com> <3B29AA35.65307ECD@trailing-edge.com> <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1151.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 992764596 266 194.134.203.132 (17 Jun 2001 07:56:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 07:56:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cleanfeed.casema.net!leda.casema.net!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:83934 On 17 Jun 2001 00:01:26 +0200 Neil Franklin wrote: NF> This is a hackersafe password -> tihasapwo -> t1ha5aPw0 Looks like the way the kewl doodz spell, but it should work well :) -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 01 09:33:36 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVas64AeAr5xlOR1lVdt3M6ZvRtW2SFeRzLKX1ak82UWMxBUB1QsuVqo X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Jun 2001 12:09:03 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-130 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:83995 In article <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com>, eben@pc.tampabay.rr.com (Hactar) wrote: >In article <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, >Neil Franklin wrote: >> >> > glass2@glass2.lexington.ibm.com wrote: >> >> >> > > in the pattern CVCCVC, where C is >> > > a consonant, and V is a vowel. The nonsense words formed tend to >> > > result in pronouncable passwords, also. >> >> Also reduces possible passwords from 6^26 to 4^21 * 2^5. Nice for the >> brute force on 1000 broken-in accounts kiddies. > >Make that 26^6 (I think) for the first one... I don't know enough >combinatorics to evaluate the second. And is 'y' considered a consonant >or a vowel? 'crypt' and 'yaw'... It depends on its position within the word (or that's what I was taught in grade school). /BAH > Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: eben@pc.tampabay.rr.com (Hactar) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Lines: 22 Message-ID: <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> x-no-archive: yes X-No-ahbou: yes X-GetARealNewsreader: , Neil Franklin wrote: > > > glass2@glass2.lexington.ibm.com wrote: > > > > > in the pattern CVCCVC, where C is > > > a consonant, and V is a vowel. The nonsense words formed tend to > > > result in pronouncable passwords, also. > > Also reduces possible passwords from 6^26 to 4^21 * 2^5. Nice for the > brute force on 1000 broken-in accounts kiddies. Make that 26^6 (I think) for the first one... I don't know enough combinatorics to evaluate the second. And is 'y' considered a consonant or a vowel? 'crypt' and 'yaw'... -- -eben eben@gate.net http://home.tampabay.rr.com/hactar/ Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Derived from Robert Heinlein ###### From: jra@dorothy.msas.net (Jay R. Ashworth) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: jra@baylink.com Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 20 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 15:36:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.161.245.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.tampabay.rr.com 992878604 24.161.245.59 (Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:36:44 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 11:36:44 EDT Organization: RoadRunner - TampaBay Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.stealth.net!news-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!typhoon.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84031 *Right* in the middle of the appendectomy, jmfbahciv@aol.com turned to Hawkeye and me and said: > >combinatorics to evaluate the second. And is 'y' considered a consonant > >or a vowel? 'crypt' and 'yaw'... > > It depends on its position within the word (or that's what > I was taught in grade school). Hmmm... what *I* got was that it was only a vowel if necessary to fulfill the "every word must have at least one vowel" rule. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> Organization: Plethora . Net - More Net, Less Spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Originator: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Date: 18 Jun 2001 16:04:43 GMT Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3b2e269a$0$329$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 8f09794a.news.plethora.net X-Trace: 992880283 gemini.plethora.net 329 seebs@205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!skynet.be!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!gemini.plethora.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84028 In article , Jay R. Ashworth wrote: >Hmmm... what *I* got was that it was only a vowel if necessary to >fulfill the "every word must have at least one vowel" rule. To make it more confusing, in some words (such as "Europe"), "e" is a consonant. -s -- Copyright 2001, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net +--- Need quality network services, server-grade computers, or a shell? ---+ v C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! v Consulting, computers, web hosting, and shell access: http://www.plethora.net/ ###### From: jra@dorothy.msas.net (Jay R. Ashworth) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3b2e269a$0$329$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> Reply-To: jra@baylink.com Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 23 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:22:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.161.245.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.tampabay.rr.com 992881361 24.161.245.59 (Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:22:41 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:22:41 EDT Organization: RoadRunner - TampaBay Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!news.stealth.net!news-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!typhoon.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84044 *Right* in the middle of the appendectomy, Peter Seebach turned to Hawkeye and me and said: > In article , > Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > >Hmmm... what *I* got was that it was only a vowel if necessary to > >fulfill the "every word must have at least one vowel" rule. > > To make it more confusing, in some words (such as "Europe"), "e" is a > consonant. *CITE!?* :-) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <3b2e269a$0$329$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> Organization: Plethora . Net - More Net, Less Spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Originator: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Date: 18 Jun 2001 18:06:00 GMT Lines: 17 Message-ID: <3b2e4308$0$325$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: a79d5b50.news.plethora.net X-Trace: 992887560 gemini.plethora.net 325 seebs@205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!gemini.plethora.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84024 In article , Jay R. Ashworth wrote: >*Right* in the middle of the appendectomy, Peter Seebach turned > to Hawkeye and me and said: >> To make it more confusing, in some words (such as "Europe"), "e" is a >> consonant. >*CITE!?* Just look at the pronunciation. "Germany is a European country." -s -- Copyright 2001, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net +--- Need quality network services, server-grade computers, or a shell? ---+ v C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! v Consulting, computers, web hosting, and shell access: http://www.plethora.net/ ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: 18 Jun 2001 22:12:55 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 33 Message-ID: <6u4rtdim2g.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 992895175 689 10.0.3.2 (18 Jun 2001 20:12:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Jun 2001 20:12:55 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84066 eben@pc.tampabay.rr.com (Hactar) writes: > In article <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, > Neil Franklin wrote: > > > > > glass2@glass2.lexington.ibm.com wrote: > > > > > > > > in the pattern CVCCVC, where C is > > > > a consonant, and V is a vowel. The nonsense words formed tend to > > > > result in pronouncable passwords, also. > > > > Also reduces possible passwords from 6^26 to 4^21 * 2^5. Nice for the > > brute force on 1000 broken-in accounts kiddies. > > Make that 26^6 (I think) for the first one... I don't know enough > combinatorics to evaluate the second. Oops. Maths goof. Both are reversed. 26^6 and 21^4 * 5^2 would be right. > And is 'y' considered a consonant > or a vowel? 'crypt' and 'yaw'... Consonant around here. I am treating vowel=[aeiou], consonant=!vowel. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### From: fred klein Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 14:42:03 -0700 Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3B2D242B.1650C69E@hotmail.com> References: <9fla1b$ioe$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <8vnlf9.4v.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <9ft9fc$hh1$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gboic01o7c@enews1.newsguy.com> <3B29AA35.65307ECD@trailing-edge.com> <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <20010617081815.6db04d70.steveo@eircom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-111-4-199.nyc.navipath.net (64.111.4.199) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 992841631 9628014 64.111.4.199 (16 [7960]) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!ip-111-4-199.nyc.navipath.NET!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84067 Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > > On 17 Jun 2001 00:01:26 +0200 > Neil Franklin wrote: > > NF> This is a hackersafe password -> tihasapwo -> t1ha5aPw0 > > Looks like the way the kewl doodz spell, but it should work well :) No, it won't. 'This Is A Hacker Safe Password' = "tiahsp", not "tihasapwo". 'This Is A Hacker Safe Pass Word' = "tiahspw", not "tihasapwo". Fred Klein ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 19:29:20 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <992892560snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 992899272 mail2news:22867 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 18 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84121 In article jra@baylink.com "Jay R. Ashworth" writes: > Hmmm... what *I* got was that it was only a vowel if necessary to > fulfill the "every word must have at least one vowel" rule. OK, what's the vowel in "cwm" then (to be found in most English dictionaries)? No, you're NOT allowed to speak Welsh, even temporarily (not even [ugh] momentarily). -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### Message-ID: <3B2E858B.BDC0A42F@ev1.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 15:49:47 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 992897411 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (18 Jun 2001 15:50:11 -0500) Lines: 19 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.twtelecom.net!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84120 "Jay R. Ashworth" wrote: > > *Right* in the middle of the appendectomy, jmfbahciv@aol.com turned > to Hawkeye and me and said: > > >combinatorics to evaluate the second. And is 'y' considered a consonant > > >or a vowel? 'crypt' and 'yaw'... > > > > It depends on its position within the word (or that's what > > I was taught in grade school). > > Hmmm... what *I* got was that it was only a vowel if necessary to > fulfill the "every word must have at least one vowel" rule. > Yeah...the same reason that 'w' is a vowel in "crwth"... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: mwilson@the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords Message-ID: References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> Lines: 19 X-Newsreader: VSoup v1.2.9.37Beta [95/NT] Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:57:46 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.206.39.184 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 993051664 205.206.39.184 (Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:41:04 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:41:04 EDT Organization: UUNET Canada News Reader Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84177 In article <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com>, Kin Hoong Chung wrote: >Charles Richmond wrote: >> [ ... ] I noted that many of the irregular verbs in English >> are *also* irregular verbs in German... >> >Could you please provide some examples? [ ... ] ... the scorn I endured when I awoke from a light snooze in German class to answer a question with: "bringt, brang, hat gebrungen" Mel. The *right* answer, as every Germanic speaker knows, was "bringt, brachte, hat gebracht" (or something) ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 01 10:05:05 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZ060rOGuwklcjHj3EdHC1f6/O5yI2wG4lJD0Rqqsazk/oop15oKwAz X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Jun 2001 12:40:40 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-97-237 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84155 In article , jra@dorothy.msas.net (Jay R. Ashworth) wrote: >*Right* in the middle of the appendectomy, jmfbahciv@aol.com turned > to Hawkeye and me and said: >> >combinatorics to evaluate the second. And is 'y' considered a consonant >> >or a vowel? 'crypt' and 'yaw'... >> >> It depends on its position within the word (or that's what >> I was taught in grade school). > >Hmmm... what *I* got was that it was only a vowel if necessary to >fulfill the "every word must have at least one vowel" rule. Well, that was fed to us, too....until I responded with an exception to that rule. Can't remember what it was now. One thing I learned when we were studying this stuff in grade school...with English, there is always an exception. Hmmm....That's not a bad lesson for a future computer type. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 01 10:07:14 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <9gnhc8$2kf$4@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3b2e269a$0$329$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <3b2e4308$0$325$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaYQen2kO8Dbvk0gLLnT0ueXaIPQPRWhRsx2HiQA665adYWG9IVQsN2 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Jun 2001 12:42:48 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-97-237 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84165 In article <3b2e4308$0$325$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net>, seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) wrote: >In article , >Jay R. Ashworth wrote: >>*Right* in the middle of the appendectomy, Peter Seebach turned >> to Hawkeye and me and said: >>> To make it more confusing, in some words (such as "Europe"), "e" is a >>> consonant. > >>*CITE!?* > >Just look at the pronunciation. "Germany is a European country." Nope. You're using an incorrect rule for that (according to my teachers ;-). The decision of whether to use an "a" or an "an" is based on the initial sound of the following word. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: john@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (John "West" McKenna) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: 19 Jun 2001 05:57:39 +0800 Organization: University Computer Club Lines: 31 Message-ID: <9gltgj$o5e$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2E858B.BDC0A42F@ev1.net> X-Trace: enyo.uwa.edu.au 992901460 31953 130.95.13.17 (18 Jun 2001 21:57:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.uwa.edu.au Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.uwa.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84208 Charles Richmond writes: [y a vowel] >> > It depends on its position within the word (or that's what >> > I was taught in grade school). >> >> Hmmm... what *I* got was that it was only a vowel if necessary to >> fulfill the "every word must have at least one vowel" rule. >> >Yeah...the same reason that 'w' is a vowel in "crwth"... People get taught all sorts of things in school. I find it's usually safest to assume it was all wrong :-) "vowel" has two meanings. One useful, one not very useful. Naturally, it's the second meaning that most people are taught. By the useful definition, [aeiouyw] are not vowels. They're letters. Vowels are the sounds, and as we all know, there's no simple mapping between letters and sounds. [aeiou] are almost always found in words at around the place where the vowel sounds occur. w is almost always representing a consonant sound. y just can't make up its mind. This is where an actual linguist jumps in and tells me I got all the details wrong. So what's g? A consonant? What about "through"? That definitely doesn't end in a consonant sound. The identification of letters as either consonants or vowels isn't very useful in English. John ###### From: jra@dorothy.msas.net (Jay R. Ashworth) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <3b2e269a$0$329$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <3b2e4308$0$325$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> Reply-To: jra@baylink.com Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 28 Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 04:20:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.34.13.142 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.tampabay.rr.com 992924441 65.34.13.142 (Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:20:41 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 00:20:41 EDT Organization: RoadRunner - TampaBay Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.stealth.net!news-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!typhoon.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84207 *Right* in the middle of the appendectomy, Peter Seebach turned to Hawkeye and me and said: > In article , > Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > >*Right* in the middle of the appendectomy, Peter Seebach turned > > to Hawkeye and me and said: > >> To make it more confusing, in some words (such as "Europe"), "e" is a > >> consonant. > > >*CITE!?* > > Just look at the pronunciation. "Germany is a European country." So schwas aren't vowels, either. Right; got it. "Cite?" Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows ###### From: Philip Newton Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 08:17:10 +0200 Organization: very little Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <3b2e269a$0$329$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <3b2e4308$0$325$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> Reply-To: "Philip 'Yes, that's my address' Newton" NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.12.62.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 992931428 10372368 212.12.62.7 (16 [11583]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!212.12.62.7!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84236 On 18 Jun 2001 18:06:00 GMT, seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) wrote: > In article , > Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > >*Right* in the middle of the appendectomy, Peter Seebach turned > > to Hawkeye and me and said: > >> To make it more confusing, in some words (such as "Europe"), "e" is a > >> consonant. > > >*CITE!?* > > Just look at the pronunciation. "Germany is a European country." "You are a unique person". So "space" is a consonant as well, because it's the only thing preceding the first 'u' of 'unique'? (And it has to belong to the word, too, I guess. Hmm.. have to lookup up " unique" in the dictionary.) Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton Yes, that really is my address; no need to remove anything to reply. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. ###### From: nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: 19 Jun 2001 06:29:04 GMT Organization: Around here? Lines: 14 Message-ID: <9gmrfg$olh$2@plutonium.btinternet.com> References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <6u4rtdim2g.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-219-114.btinternet.com User-Agent: Xnews/4.04.17tea Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84218 Neil Franklin wrote in <6u4rtdim2g.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>: >> And is 'y' considered a consonant >> or a vowel? 'crypt' and 'yaw'... > > Consonant around here. I am treating vowel=[aeiou], consonant=!vowel. Got to be a consonant. Otherwise, 'rhythm' would have a vowel in it! -- I have a quantum car. Every time I look at the speedometer I get lost... barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk ###### From: Philip Newton Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:36:26 +0200 Organization: very little Lines: 38 Message-ID: References: <9fla1b$ioe$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <8vnlf9.4v.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <9ft9fc$hh1$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gboic01o7c@enews1.newsguy.com> <3B29AA35.65307ECD@trailing-edge.com> <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> Reply-To: "Philip 'Yes, that's my address' Newton" NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.12.62.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 992936184 10347306 212.12.62.7 (16 [11583]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!212.12.62.7!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84244 On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:28:50 -0500, Arargh! wrote: > On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:51:25 -0400, Tim Shoppa > wrote: > > > >VMS has had, for the past two decades or so, something similar > >to this under SET PASSWORD/GENERATE. Admittedly, not all of them > >are pronouncable, but usually in ten or fifteen I'll see one that > >I like. > Do you have any idea where I find a copy of the source for that > password generator? Or, if nothing else, a copy of the EXE and an > instruction guide for the cpu. Well, it's not the VMS thing, but there's a Perl module called Crypt::RandPasswd available from CPAN (the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network) which implements random password generation based on (AIUI) a US DoD standard, FIPS-181. This produces pronounceable passwords as well, using a table of allowable letter sequences in English; there are a couple of different methods (random words, random letters, random characters). Random words can also be produced with hyphens between syllables so you can see what the algorithm thinks is a syllable. Comes (of course) with source. See also the referenced article: : This is an implementation of the Automated Password Generator standard, : defined in FIPS Publication 181, "Standard for Automated Password Generator": : http://www.itl.nist.gov/fipspubs/fip181.htm I think the referenced article also has a reference implementation in C included. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton Yes, that really is my address; no need to remove anything to reply. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 16:39:10 -0500 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <9fla1b$ioe$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <8vnlf9.4v.ln@teabag.cbhnet> <9ft9fc$hh1$10@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gboic01o7c@enews1.newsguy.com> <3B29AA35.65307ECD@trailing-edge.com> <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZh8mJNW6SjyIuQDiEnOM8VTI9yRv2N6IBmRCxtjPaUBN7M8o7NW3EU X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Jun 2001 21:39:14 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84238 On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:36:26 +0200, Philip Newton wrote: >On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:28:50 -0500, Arargh! wrote: > >> On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:51:25 -0400, Tim Shoppa >> wrote: >> Thanks. I will check out the perl version. >: This is an implementation of the Automated Password Generator standard, >: defined in FIPS Publication 181, "Standard for Automated Password Generator": >: http://www.itl.nist.gov/fipspubs/fip181.htm > >I think the referenced article also has a reference implementation in C >included. Only if you buy the paper copy :-( -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### Message-ID: <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 18:43:44 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 992994243 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (19 Jun 2001 18:44:03 -0500) Lines: 32 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84229 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > In article , > jra@dorothy.msas.net (Jay R. Ashworth) wrote: > >*Right* in the middle of the appendectomy, jmfbahciv@aol.com turned > > to Hawkeye and me and said: > >> >combinatorics to evaluate the second. And is 'y' considered a > consonant > >> >or a vowel? 'crypt' and 'yaw'... > >> > >> It depends on its position within the word (or that's what > >> I was taught in grade school). > > > >Hmmm... what *I* got was that it was only a vowel if necessary to > >fulfill the "every word must have at least one vowel" rule. > > Well, that was fed to us, too....until I responded with an > exception to that rule. Can't remember what it was now. > One thing I learned when we were studying this stuff in grade > school...with English, there is always an exception. > > Hmmm....That's not a bad lesson for a future computer type. > English is in the Germanic language family...and the German language has lots and lots of *exceptions* too... In fact, when I took some German in college, I noted that many of the irregular verbs in English are *also* irregular verbs in German... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 15:36:12 +0800 From: Kin Hoong Chung X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: borg65.upnaway.com X-Trace: 20 Jun 2001 14:48:24 +0800, borg65.upnaway.com Lines: 18 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!newshub1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.uwa.edu.au!nntp!usenet.per.paradox.net.au!borg65.upnaway.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84128 Charles Richmond wrote: > > English is in the Germanic language family...and the German language > has lots and lots of *exceptions* too... In fact, when I took some > German in college, I noted that many of the irregular verbs in English > are *also* irregular verbs in German... > Could you please provide some examples? Many of the irregular verbs in English are irregular verbs in German is that that many English words have become words in a large number of other languages because English has been the lingua franca for a long time now---even the French use "le weekend". Cheers, Kin Hoong ###### Message-ID: <3B30D686.A7185332@ev1.net> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:59:51 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 993049216 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (20 Jun 2001 10:00:16 -0500) Lines: 24 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84226 Kin Hoong Chung wrote: > > Charles Richmond wrote: > > > > English is in the Germanic language family...and the German language > > has lots and lots of *exceptions* too... In fact, when I took some > > German in college, I noted that many of the irregular verbs in English > > are *also* irregular verbs in German... > > > Could you please provide some examples? Many of the irregular verbs > in English are irregular verbs in German is that that many English > words have become words in a large number of other languages because > English has been the lingua franca for a long time now---even > the French use "le weekend". > IMHO no, the verbs in question are *too* basic...things like "to go" and "to forget"... I believe that the inheriting happened the other way...from German into English...and it happened quite a long time ago... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:39:01 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <993076741snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 993082966 mail2news:26500 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 29 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84300 In article <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> khchung001@hotmail.com "Kin Hoong Chung" writes: > Charles Richmond wrote: > > > > English is in the Germanic language family...and the German language > > has lots and lots of *exceptions* too... In fact, when I took some > > German in college, I noted that many of the irregular verbs in English > > are *also* irregular verbs in German... In *most* languages, the commonest verbs also tend to be irregular. Such as "to be" in: English, Italian (well, all Romance languages, including French), German, Greek, etc. Ditto for "to have", "to be able", etc. > Could you please provide some examples? Many of the irregular verbs > in English are irregular verbs in German is that that many English > words have become words in a large number of other languages because > English has been the lingua franca for a long time now---even > the French use "le weekend". Since you seem not to understand what a "verb" is, examples are probably going to be of little utility. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <3b2e4308$0$325$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> Organization: Plethora . Net - More Net, Less Spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Originator: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Date: 21 Jun 2001 05:08:22 GMT Lines: 16 Message-ID: <3b318146$0$327$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 5fd18d37.news.plethora.net X-Trace: 993100102 gemini.plethora.net 327 seebs@205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!gemini.plethora.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84281 In article , Philip Newton wrote: >"You are a unique person". >So "space" is a consonant as well, because it's the only thing preceding >the first 'u' of 'unique'? (And it has to belong to the word, too, I >guess. Hmm.. have to lookup up " unique" in the dictionary.) :) In that context, "u" is representing a consonant *and* a vowel. -s -- Copyright 2001, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net +--- Need quality network services, server-grade computers, or a shell? ---+ v C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! v Consulting, computers, web hosting, and shell access: http://www.plethora.net/ ###### From: Philip Newton Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 07:51:35 +0200 Organization: very little Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <993076741snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: "Philip 'Yes, that's my address' Newton" NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.12.62.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 993102687 11096801 212.12.62.7 (16 [11583]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newscore.gigabell.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!212.12.62.7!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84297 On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:39:01 GMT, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote: > In *most* languages, the commonest verbs also tend to be irregular. Such > as "to be" in: English, Italian (well, all Romance languages, including > French), German, Greek, etc. Ditto for "to have", "to be able", etc. In Japanese: "to do", "to come", and to a lesser extent, "to go". (suru, kuru, iku.) To my knowledge, those are the only three irregular verbs in (modern) Japanese. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton Yes, that really is my address; no need to remove anything to reply. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. ###### From: "PL" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3b2e269a$0$329$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <3b2e4308$0$325$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Lines: 25 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <7zoY6.21961$AB.151082044@news2.tor.primus.ca> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:41:21 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.254.161.133 X-Complaints-To: news@primus.ca X-Trace: news2.tor.primus.ca 993137987 216.254.161.133 (Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:39:47 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:39:47 EDT Organization: Primus Canada Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!feeder.qis.net!feed.nntp.primus.ca!feed.nntp.primus.ca!news2.tor.primus.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84286 "Philip Newton" wrote in message news:bhrtitg8p3cn43ma9829tdje7kbkamb6dk@4ax.com... > On 18 Jun 2001 18:06:00 GMT, seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) wrote: > <> > > So "space" is a consonant as well, because it's the only thing preceding > the first 'u' of 'unique'? (And it has to belong to the word, too, I > guess. Hmm.. have to lookup up " unique" in the dictionary.) > Only if you wheeze alot Rick > Cheers, > Philip > -- > Philip Newton > Yes, that really is my address; no need to remove anything to reply. > If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 01 10:13:44 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 58 Message-ID: <9h4nlt$lug$6@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3b2e269a$0$329$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <3b2e4308$0$325$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <7zoY6.21961$AB.151082044@news2.tor.primus.ca> <9gvcsk$fbt$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9h01c102r14@enews2.newsguy.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZ1YUK7lwfLquTB4nRLIOilJtSgwo+Eia/QdhOwb7KovUT6/jsywd+Y X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jun 2001 12:50:05 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!skynet.be!news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-58 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84545 In article <9h01c102r14@enews2.newsguy.com>, michael.wojcik@merant.com (Michael Wojcik) wrote: > >In article <9gvcsk$fbt$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: >[re vowels and consonants] > >> I just wrote an exception to the rule..rats. There was a rule >> that covered all this but I sure can't seem to remember it. > >(Disclaimer: IANA linguist, but I have done some reading in this area.) > >John McKenna explained the "rule" a couple of days ago. Yup. I read that. I've been trying to remember what we were taught in second grade. His and your explanation is a tad too complicated for that level. ;-) >Vowels and >consonants are elements of pronunciation - they're in the domain of >spoken language. Letters are elements of spelling - they're in the >domain of written language. There's no fixed mapping between the two. > >In "unique", "u" represents a consonant and a vowel. Using >Kirshenbaum's notation (see the alt.usage.english FAQ), it's /j/ >followed by /u/. > >In "Europe", "E" represents a consonant, again /j/. > >In "yaw", "y" represents a consonant - that /j/ that seems to cause >so much confusion - and "aw" represents a diphthong along the lines >of /Aa/. (At least that's how I pronounce that diphthong; another >possibility is /O/.) > >In "through", "ough" represents the vowel /u/. In "cough", "ough" >represents the diphthong /Aa/ (again, my pronunciation) followed >by the consonant /f/. > >Rules like "every word must have a vowel", and anecdotes like "'cwm' >being in English dictionaries makes 'w' a vowel" are, as John wrote, >pretty much useless. I don't think I learned spelling with that as a rule. > It's slightly more useful to understand what >vowels and consonants actually do, and what letters and letter >combinations are often used to represent vowels or consonants, but >on the whole it's not something the average English speaker needs >to worry about much. Perhaps not to this detail. But I do get irritated when people don't think spelling correctly is important (I consider proper capitalization as correct spelling; Brain burps and typos are excluded.) /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 01 09:39:13 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 25 Message-ID: <9gvcsk$fbt$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3b2e269a$0$329$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <3b2e4308$0$325$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <7zoY6.21961$AB.151082044@news2.tor.primus.ca> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbuPtRRp2kwY9kY0t0ueKVs9/TckgvO3RlDBmxHc0H1cxWJN0aFYVM6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jun 2001 12:15:16 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-8 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84559 In article <7zoY6.21961$AB.151082044@news2.tor.primus.ca>, "PL" wrote: > >"Philip Newton" wrote in message >news:bhrtitg8p3cn43ma9829tdje7kbkamb6dk@4ax.com... >> On 18 Jun 2001 18:06:00 GMT, seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) wrote: >> ><> >> >> So "space" is a consonant as well, because it's the only thing preceding >> the first 'u' of 'unique'? (And it has to belong to the word, too, I >> guess. Hmm.. have to lookup up " unique" in the dictionary.) >> > >Only if you wheeze alot But unique has an "n" sound so one doesn't need...hmm.... I just wrote an exception to the rule..rats. There was a rule that covered all this but I sure can't seem to remember it. Is that what is meant by an embedded rule? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: michael.wojcik@merant.com (Michael Wojcik) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: 22 Jun 2001 18:04:49 GMT Organization: MERANT Inc. Lines: 44 Message-ID: <9h01c102r14@enews2.newsguy.com> References: <3b2e269a$0$329$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <3b2e4308$0$325$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <7zoY6.21961$AB.151082044@news2.tor.primus.ca> <9gvcsk$fbt$3@bob.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: michael.wojcik@merant.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-660.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: xrn 9.00 Originator: mww@lorelei Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!mww Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84526 In article <9gvcsk$fbt$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: [re vowels and consonants] > I just wrote an exception to the rule..rats. There was a rule > that covered all this but I sure can't seem to remember it. (Disclaimer: IANA linguist, but I have done some reading in this area.) John McKenna explained the "rule" a couple of days ago. Vowels and consonants are elements of pronunciation - they're in the domain of spoken language. Letters are elements of spelling - they're in the domain of written language. There's no fixed mapping between the two. In "unique", "u" represents a consonant and a vowel. Using Kirshenbaum's notation (see the alt.usage.english FAQ), it's /j/ followed by /u/. In "Europe", "E" represents a consonant, again /j/. In "yaw", "y" represents a consonant - that /j/ that seems to cause so much confusion - and "aw" represents a diphthong along the lines of /Aa/. (At least that's how I pronounce that diphthong; another possibility is /O/.) In "through", "ough" represents the vowel /u/. In "cough", "ough" represents the diphthong /Aa/ (again, my pronunciation) followed by the consonant /f/. Rules like "every word must have a vowel", and anecdotes like "'cwm' being in English dictionaries makes 'w' a vowel" are, as John wrote, pretty much useless. It's slightly more useful to understand what vowels and consonants actually do, and what letters and letter combinations are often used to represent vowels or consonants, but on the whole it's not something the average English speaker needs to worry about much. -- Michael Wojcik michael.wojcik@merant.com Comms Development, MERANT (block capitals are a company mandate) Department of English, Miami University Any average educated person can turn out competent verse. -- W. H. Auden ###### From: nailed_barnacle@NOSPAMhotmail.com (Neil Barnes) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: 23 Jun 2001 05:46:39 GMT Organization: Around here? Lines: 48 Message-ID: <9h1afv$qh8$3@neptunium.btinternet.com> References: <3b2e269a$0$329$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <3b2e4308$0$325$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <7zoY6.21961$AB.151082044@news2.tor.primus.ca> <9gvcsk$fbt$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9h01c102r14@enews2.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-7-123-44.btinternet.com User-Agent: Xnews/4.04.17tea Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!easynet-quince!easynet-melon!easynet.net!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84787 michael.wojcik@merant.com (Michael Wojcik) wrote in <9h01c102r14 @enews2.newsguy.com>: > > In article <9gvcsk$fbt$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > [re vowels and consonants] > >> I just wrote an exception to the rule..rats. There was a rule >> that covered all this but I sure can't seem to remember it. > > (Disclaimer: IANA linguist, but I have done some reading in this area.) > > John McKenna explained the "rule" a couple of days ago. Vowels and > consonants are elements of pronunciation - they're in the domain of > spoken language. Letters are elements of spelling - they're in the > domain of written language. There's no fixed mapping between the two. > > In "unique", "u" represents a consonant and a vowel. Using > Kirshenbaum's notation (see the alt.usage.english FAQ), it's /j/ > followed by /u/. > > In "Europe", "E" represents a consonant, again /j/. > > In "yaw", "y" represents a consonant - that /j/ that seems to cause > so much confusion - and "aw" represents a diphthong along the lines > of /Aa/. (At least that's how I pronounce that diphthong; another > possibility is /O/.) > > In "through", "ough" represents the vowel /u/. In "cough", "ough" > represents the diphthong /Aa/ (again, my pronunciation) followed > by the consonant /f/. > > Rules like "every word must have a vowel", and anecdotes like "'cwm' > being in English dictionaries makes 'w' a vowel" are, as John wrote, > pretty much useless. It's slightly more useful to understand what > vowels and consonants actually do, and what letters and letter > combinations are often used to represent vowels or consonants, but > on the whole it's not something the average English speaker needs > to worry about much. > > After the small intestines come the vowels, which are A, E I, O, and U... -- I have a quantum car. Every time I look at the speedometer I get lost... barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk ###### From: Philip Newton Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 11:33:37 +0200 Organization: very little Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <3b2e269a$0$329$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <3b2e4308$0$325$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <7zoY6.21961$AB.151082044@news2.tor.primus.ca> <9gvcsk$fbt$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9h01c102r14@enews2.newsguy.com> Reply-To: "Philip 'Yes, that's my address' Newton" NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.12.62.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 993288803 12334620 212.12.62.7 (16 [11583]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!uni-erlangen.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!212.12.62.7!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84979 On 22 Jun 2001 18:04:49 GMT, michael.wojcik@merant.com (Michael Wojcik) wrote: > In "Europe", "E" represents a consonant, again /j/. I'd analyse that as: "Eu" represents a consonant and a vowel, /j/ + /u/, but without splitting up the "eu" as " represents /j/ and represents /u/". Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton Yes, that really is my address; no need to remove anything to reply. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. ###### From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 11:59:25 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Daedalus Consulting Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9h20at$4rc$1@raewyn.paradise.net.nz> References: <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <992738249snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 203-96-144-16.cable.paradise.net.nz X-Trace: raewyn.paradise.net.nz 993297565 4972 203.96.144.16 (23 Jun 2001 11:59:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@tsnz.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 11:59:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news01.tsnz.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84672 shoppa@trailing-edge.com "Tim Shoppa" writes: > You have to be *very* careful with what your random number generator > is. Books have been written about all the lousy random number > algorithms in common use. Yeah: toyunix% man rand RAND(3) NetBSD Programmer's Manual RAND(3) NAME rand, srand, rand_r - bad random number generator ... I recall a long time ago teaching myself C, doing simulations of coing flips, simply using rand() % 2 to indicate heads or tails. I was getting absolutely 50% results, when I wasn't expecting it. A bit more playing and I found that the "random" numbers (from rand()) alternated even and odd. Uh-huh. NetBSD's rand() appears to repeat in a given number of low order bits in that number of bits worth, i.e. rand() % 2^n repeats after 2^n runs. Useful, that. -- don ###### From: Torsten Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 18:49:27 +0000 (UTC) Organization: CyberCity Internet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9h2obn$5i2$1@news.cybercity.dk> References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <3B30D686.A7185332@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: port516.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk X-Trace: news.cybercity.dk 993322167 5698 217.157.133.149 (23 Jun 2001 18:49:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cybercity.dk NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 18:49:27 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: tin/1.5.8-20010221 ("Blue Water") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-RELEASE (i386)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!news.algonet.se!algonet!news.tele.dk!195.158.233.21!news1.ebone.net!news.ebone.net!news.net.uni-c.dk!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.cybercity.dk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84557 Charles Richmond skrev: > IMHO no, the verbs in question are *too* basic...things like "to go" > and "to forget"... I believe that the inheriting happened the other > way...from German into English...and it happened quite a long time > ago... They are from their common ancestor, not borrowed from one into the other. You will find a large overlap with the irregular verbs of the Scandinavian languages as well. The further you go back in time, the more irregular verbs there are. So many in fact, that they were once the regular verbs (they were declined by changing the wovel). /Torsten English <-> Danish: spin, span, spun <-> spinde, spandt, spundet sink, sank, sunk <-> synke, sank, sunket sing, sang, sung <-> synge, sang, sunget take, took, taken <-> tage, tog, taget [1] ... and many more :-) [1] take was borrowed from Old Danish. ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: 23 Jun 2001 22:14:05 GMT Organization: House of Hawkins Lines: 37 Message-ID: <9h34bd$1edi@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test75 (Feb 13, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84425 In article <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com>, Kin Hoong Chung wrote: >Charles Richmond wrote: >> English is in the Germanic language family...and the German language >> has lots and lots of *exceptions* too... In fact, when I took some >> German in college, I noted that many of the irregular verbs in English >> are *also* irregular verbs in German... >Could you please provide some examples? Many of the irregular verbs >in English are irregular verbs in German is that that many English >words have become words in a large number of other languages because >English has been the lingua franca for a long time now---even >the French use "le weekend". The irregulars go back farther than that, as noted elsewhere. The really wierd ones behave the same in English & German. By "really wierd" I mean the ones where there is both a regular and irregular with nearly the same meaning, such as "to hang" and "to hang." These lead to phrases like, "After we hanged Jim, we hung his dog" . . . German has the same two verbs (both hangen, or gehangen? It's been a while), whose usage splits the same way. And again with lay/lie. Also, the patterns are analogous in German and English for many of the irregulars--once you learn one of them, you can effortlessly use the "similar" ones in the new language . . . hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### Message-ID: <3B351AFD.8B0706B3@ev1.net> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 15:41:01 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <3b2e269a$0$329$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <3b2e4308$0$325$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <7zoY6.21961$AB.151082044@news2.tor.primus.ca> <9gvcsk$fbt$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9h01c102r14@enews2.newsguy.com> <9h1afv$qh8$3@neptunium.btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 993328678 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (23 Jun 2001 15:37:58 -0500) Lines: 13 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84869 Neil Barnes wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > After the small intestines come the vowels, which are A, E I, O, and U... > No, no, no!!! A, E, I, O, and U are *letters*...the vowels are the sounds made by what comes after the small intestines!!! -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3B351BB0.9345829E@ev1.net> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 15:44:00 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <3B30D686.A7185332@ev1.net> <9h2obn$5i2$1@news.cybercity.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 993328857 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (23 Jun 2001 15:40:57 -0500) Lines: 24 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84850 Torsten wrote: > > Charles Richmond skrev: > > > IMHO no, the verbs in question are *too* basic...things like "to go" > > and "to forget"... I believe that the inheriting happened the other > > way...from German into English...and it happened quite a long time > > ago... > > They are from their common ancestor, not borrowed from one into > the other. You will find a large overlap with the irregular verbs > of the Scandinavian languages as well. The further you go back in > time, the more irregular verbs there are. So many in fact, that > they were once the regular verbs (they were declined by changing > the wovel). > Actually, I would like to "decline" all of the irregular verbs... they are *too* much trouble!!! But I believe that adjectives are "declined", and verbs are "conjugated"... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: dowe@krikkit.localdomain (Dowe Keller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <3B30D686.A7185332@ev1.net> <9h2obn$5i2$1@news.cybercity.dk> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.3pl4 (Linux) NNTP-Posting-Host: 20923419636.sierratel.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 20923419636.sierratel.com Date: 23 Jun 2001 22:07:22 -0700 X-Trace: 23 Jun 2001 22:07:22 -0700, 20923419636.sierratel.com Organization: news.sierratel.com Lines: 9 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!news.sierratel.com!dowe Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84308 On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Torsten wrote: >they were once the regular verbs (they were declined by changing >the wovel). ^^^^^ What's a wovel? ;-) -- dowe@sierratel.com Homepage: http://www.sierratel.com/dowe Project : http://freshmeat.net/projects/vsh ###### From: Paul Guertin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 14:34:41 +0900 Organization: Amalgamated Karma Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <993076741snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: pg@sff.net NNTP-Posting-Host: p-288.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsmaster-01.atnet.at!atnet.at!newsrouter.chello.at!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!137.192.6.2!msc1.onvoy!ply1.onvoy!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84571 Philip Newton wrote: > In Japanese: "to do", "to come", and to a lesser extent, "to go". (suru, > kuru, iku.) To my knowledge, those are the only three irregular verbs in > (modern) Japanese. Two more: "to be" (aru) becomes "nai" in the negative instead of *aranai. And "to say" could be said to be irregular because the way it is usually pronounced (yuu) differs from the way it is written (iu). Paul Guertin pg@sff.net ###### From: Torsten Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 09:05:42 +0000 (UTC) Organization: CyberCity Internet Lines: 10 Message-ID: <9h4ah6$2b23$2@news.cybercity.dk> References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <3B30D686.A7185332@ev1.net> <9h2obn$5i2$1@news.cybercity.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: port516.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk X-Trace: news.cybercity.dk 993373542 76867 217.157.133.149 (24 Jun 2001 09:05:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cybercity.dk NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 09:05:42 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: tin/1.5.8-20010221 ("Blue Water") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-RELEASE (i386)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!skynet.be!cleanfeed.casema.net!leda.casema.net!newsfeed2.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!ams.uu.net!news.cybercity.dk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84550 Dowe Keller skrev: > On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Torsten wrote: >>they were once the regular verbs (they were declined by changing >>the wovel). > ^^^^^ What's a wovel? ;-) Oops! A "wovel" is a vowel; I have to get those fingers rewired. :-) /Torsten ###### From: Torsten Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 09:12:10 +0000 (UTC) Organization: CyberCity Internet Lines: 8 Message-ID: <9h4ata$2b23$3@news.cybercity.dk> References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <3B30D686.A7185332@ev1.net> <9h2obn$5i2$1@news.cybercity.dk> <3B351BB0.9345829E@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: port516.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk X-Trace: news.cybercity.dk 993373930 76867 217.157.133.149 (24 Jun 2001 09:12:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cybercity.dk NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 09:12:10 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: tin/1.5.8-20010221 ("Blue Water") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.3-RELEASE (i386)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cleanfeed.casema.net!leda.casema.net!newsfeed2.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!ams.uu.net!news.cybercity.dk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84570 Charles Richmond skrev: > But I believe that adjectives are > "declined", and verbs are "conjugated"... Indeed they are. Nouns, pronouns, and adjectives are declined. /Torsten ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: 25 Jun 2001 00:09:03 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9h5vev$16ua@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84468 In article <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >English is in the Germanic language family...and the German language >has lots and lots of *exceptions* too... which means, of course, that there is a Germanic language with no exceptions . . . err, and an exception to that, and . . . hawk, desparate fr the compiler to finsish so he can go home. *stupid* DRDOS. ok, stupid hawk who forgot about it's fdisk consistent destruction of partition tables . . . >+-------------------------------------------------------------+ -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: 25 Jun 2001 00:09:49 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 16 Message-ID: <9h5vgd$16ua@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <9h2obn$5i2$1@news.cybercity.dk> <3B351BB0.9345829E@ev1.net> <9h4ata$2b23$3@news.cybercity.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84450 In article <9h4ata$2b23$3@news.cybercity.dk>, Torsten wrote: >Charles Richmond skrev: > >> "declined", and verbs are "conjugated"... English is a langage where we decline to conjugagte our nouns . . . hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: 25 Jun 2001 00:33:51 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9h60tf$16ua@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <3B30D686.A7185332@ev1.net> <9h2obn$5i2$1@news.cybercity.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84412 In article , Dowe Keller wrote: >On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Torsten wrote: >>they were once the regular verbs (they were declined by changing >>the wovel). > ^^^^^ What's a wovel? ;-) It's a letter that wovels back and forth, being a vowel in some places, and a consonant others . . . hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: 25 Jun 2001 01:01:27 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 31 Message-ID: <9h62h7$16ua@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <9h34bd$1edi@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <3B36A5E9.154AB5A5@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Prof. Richard E. Hawkins) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84379 In article <3B36A5E9.154AB5A5@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >"Prof. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote: >> Also, the patterns are analogous in German and English for many of >> the irregulars--once you learn one of them, you can effortlessly use >> the "similar" ones in the new language . . . >But you will *never* be able to spell them right... (;-)) > >After studying German for a couple of semesters, I could easily >spell "Hundert" and "Tausend"...but found it *very* hard to >write "hundred" and "thousand" in English... For me, the spellings >are close enough to interfere with each other... :) I drove the instructor nuts with this odd habit of yanking in spanish pronouns and the like when I didn't know the german. Not on purpose; they came quite naturally . . . hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign dochawk@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail These opinions will not be those of X and postings Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \ ###### From: Factory Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:19:18 +1000 Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <992738249snz@dsl.co.uk> <9h20at$4rc$1@raewyn.paradise.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: b3-161.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: possum.melbpc.org.au 993410940 1192 203.12.156.161 (24 Jun 2001 19:29:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@melbpc.org.au NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 19:29:00 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news.stealth.net!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!intgwlon.nntp.telstra.net!203.109.252.33.MISMATCH!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.melbpc.org.au!news.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84876 On Sat, 23 Jun 2001 11:59:25 +0000 (UTC), don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) wrote: >shoppa@trailing-edge.com "Tim Shoppa" writes: >> You have to be *very* careful with what your random number generator >> is. Books have been written about all the lousy random number >> algorithms in common use. Yes, that's why the only criterion when choosing a rng is how kewl the name sounds. For instance, rand is a very boring name, so don't use that one. Pick a rng that is named after an obscure place, or who's author has a name that is unpronounceable phonetically, or at least has a mysterious number in it somewhere. Bonus points for having it cleared for use in military grade encyption. The src code that you use should also look like it was done by somewho has a doctorate in computer science and mathematics, so make sure it has lots of one and two letter variable names, and uses the full capabilities of either F77 or K&R C.. I personally use the Mersenne Twister (MT19937), corr, Twister, what a kewl word. - Factory/TRSI ###### Message-ID: <3B36A5E9.154AB5A5@ev1.net> Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 19:46:01 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <9h34bd$1edi@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 993429778 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (24 Jun 2001 19:42:58 -0500) Lines: 19 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!news.stealth.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.twtelecom.net!newsfeed.twtelecom.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84871 "Prof. Richard E. Hawkins" wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > Also, the patterns are analogous in German and English for many of > the irregulars--once you learn one of them, you can effortlessly use > the "similar" ones in the new language . . . > But you will *never* be able to spell them right... (;-)) After studying German for a couple of semesters, I could easily spell "Hundert" and "Tausend"...but found it *very* hard to write "hundred" and "thousand" in English... For me, the spellings are close enough to interfere with each other... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 06:35:48 GMT Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net Message-ID: <3b36c457.309270494@news.shuswap.net> References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <3B30D686.A7185332@ev1.net> <9h2obn$5i2$1@news.cybercity.dk> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm3-12.shuswap.net X-Trace: 24 Jun 2001 23:50:53 -0700, salmonarm3-12.shuswap.net Lines: 18 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!feed.textport.net!news.bnb-lp.com!nubby2.!salmonarm3-12.shuswap.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84584 dowe@krikkit.localdomain (Dowe Keller) wrote: >On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Torsten wrote: > >>they were once the regular verbs (they were declined by changing >>the wovel). > ^^^^^ What's a wovel? ;-) Something dealt with in a thread. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 06:35:49 GMT Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net Message-ID: <3b36c4d6.309397827@news.shuswap.net> References: <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <993076741snz@dsl.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm3-12.shuswap.net X-Trace: 24 Jun 2001 23:50:55 -0700, salmonarm3-12.shuswap.net Lines: 23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!feed.textport.net!news.bnb-lp.com!nubby2.!salmonarm3-12.shuswap.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84597 Philip Newton wrote: >On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:39:01 GMT, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) >wrote: > >> In *most* languages, the commonest verbs also tend to be irregular. Such >> as "to be" in: English, Italian (well, all Romance languages, including >> French), German, Greek, etc. Ditto for "to have", "to be able", etc. > >In Japanese: "to do", "to come", and to a lesser extent, "to go". (suru, >kuru, iku.) To my knowledge, those are the only three irregular verbs in >(modern) Japanese. Cantonese has one: "to have". Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: Philip Newton Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:14:57 +0200 Organization: very little Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <993076741snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: "Philip 'Yes, that's my address' Newton" NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.12.62.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 993453299 13234988 212.12.62.7 (16 [11583]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!212.12.62.7!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84977 On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 14:34:41 +0900, Paul Guertin wrote: > Philip Newton wrote: > > > In Japanese: "to do", "to come", and to a lesser extent, "to go". (suru, > > kuru, iku.) To my knowledge, those are the only three irregular verbs in > > (modern) Japanese. > > Two more: "to be" (aru) becomes "nai" in the negative instead of *aranai. Good point; thanks. (Though one could, perhaps, make a point that 'nai' is a suppletive form and not really part of the conjugation of 'aru'.) > And "to say" could be said to be irregular because the way it is usually > pronounced (yuu) differs from the way it is written (iu). Which leads the the past tense "yutta", which I've heard colloquially. I believe the correct form is "itta". Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton Yes, that really is my address; no need to remove anything to reply. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. ###### From: "Rickety" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:55:12 +0200 Organization: The South African Internet Exchange Lines: 21 Message-ID: <9h6qme$8dg$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> References: <3b2e269a$0$329$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <3b2e4308$0$325$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <7zoY6.21961$AB.151082044@news2.tor.primus.ca> <9gvcsk$fbt$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <9h01c102r14@enews2.newsguy.com> <9h1afv$qh8$3@neptunium.btinternet.com> <3B351AFD.8B0706B3@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: rdg53-01-p210.gt.saix.net X-Trace: ctb-nnrp2.saix.net 993455630 8624 155.239.114.210 (25 Jun 2001 07:53:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@saix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jun 2001 07:53:50 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet!ctb-nntp1.saix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84573 "Charles Richmond" wrote in message news:3B351AFD.8B0706B3@ev1.net... > Neil Barnes wrote: > > > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > > > After the small intestines come the vowels, which are A, E I, O, and U... > > > No, no, no!!! A, E, I, O, and U are *letters*...the vowels are the sounds > made by what comes after the small intestines!!! > I normally get into a lot of trouble when the sounds are made by what comes after the small intestines. -- Rickety ###### From: Paul Guertin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:04:27 +0900 Organization: Amalgamated Karma Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <993076741snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: pg@sff.net NNTP-Posting-Host: p-339.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!netnews.com!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84523 Philip Newton wrote: > > Two more: "to be" (aru) becomes "nai" in the negative instead of *aranai. > > Good point; thanks. > > (Though one could, perhaps, make a point that 'nai' is a suppletive form > and not really part of the conjugation of 'aru'.) One could, but then what would one answer when asked how to conjugate "aru" in the negative, plain form? > > And "to say" could be said to be irregular because the way it is usually > > pronounced (yuu) differs from the way it is written (iu). > > Which leads the the past tense "yutta", which I've heard colloquially. I > believe the correct form is "itta". Right. And living in Kansai, I hear "yutta" and "yutte" all the time. Even my very proper Nihongo teacher was not above saying "yutte mite". Paul Guertin pg@sff.net ###### From: "PL" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <3B30D686.A7185332@ev1.net> <9h2obn$5i2$1@news.cybercity.dk> <3b36c457.309270494@news.shuswap.net> Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Lines: 28 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 14:04:26 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.254.153.159 X-Complaints-To: news@primus.ca X-Trace: news2.tor.primus.ca 993492167 216.254.153.159 (Mon, 25 Jun 2001 14:02:47 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 14:02:47 EDT Organization: Primus Canada Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.nntp.primus.ca!feed.nntp.primus.ca!news2.tor.primus.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84754 "Gene Wirchenko" wrote in message news:3b36c457.309270494@news.shuswap.net... > dowe@krikkit.localdomain (Dowe Keller) wrote: > > >On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Torsten wrote: > > > >>they were once the regular verbs (they were declined by changing > >>the wovel). > > ^^^^^ What's a wovel? ;-) > > Something dealt with in a thread. > Nah, that would be a "weavel". :-) Rick > Sincerely, > > Gene Wirchenko > > Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: > I have preferences. > You have biases. > He/She has prejudices. ###### From: scjones@thor.sdrc.com (Larry Jones) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: 25 Jun 2001 20:53:12 GMT Organization: Structural Dynamics Research Corp. Lines: 15 Distribution: world Message-ID: <9h88bo$siq@nfs0.sdrc.com> References: <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <992738249snz@dsl.co.uk> <9h20at$4rc$1@raewyn.paradise.net.nz> Reply-To: larry.jones@sdrc.com NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.sdrc.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.stealth.net!news.infoave.net!den-news-01.qwest.net!newsfeed.fuse.net!sdrc.com!thor.sdrc.com!scjones Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84333 Don Stokes (don@news.daedalus.co.nz) wrote: > > RAND(3) NetBSD Programmer's Manual RAND(3) > > NAME > rand, srand, rand_r - bad random number generator Which is somewhat amusing since it was a clueless someone at Berkeley who "extended" the perfectly good 16-bit rand() to 32 bits by returning the entire 32-bit internal state instead of just the upper 16 bits and thus made it nearly worthless. -Larry Jones ...That would be pretty cool, if they weren't out to kill me. -- Calvin ###### Message-ID: <3B37C58D.9C3E9773@ev1.net> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 16:13:17 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <993076741snz@dsl.co.uk> <3b36c4d6.309397827@news.shuswap.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 993503624 c1656384-a.plano1.tx.home.com (25 Jun 2001 16:13:44 -0500) Lines: 24 X-Authenticated-User: richmond Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84879 Gene Wirchenko wrote: > > Philip Newton wrote: > > >On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:39:01 GMT, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) > >wrote: > > > >> In *most* languages, the commonest verbs also tend to be irregular. Such > >> as "to be" in: English, Italian (well, all Romance languages, including > >> French), German, Greek, etc. Ditto for "to have", "to be able", etc. > > > >In Japanese: "to do", "to come", and to a lesser extent, "to go". (suru, > >kuru, iku.) To my knowledge, those are the only three irregular verbs in > >(modern) Japanese. > > Cantonese has one: "to have". > In Chinese, the verb is *not* conjugated...so how can "to have" be irregular??? -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 05:01:40 GMT Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net Message-ID: <3b37eb7c.384839498@news.shuswap.net> References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <3B30D686.A7185332@ev1.net> <9h2obn$5i2$1@news.cybercity.dk> <3b36c457.309270494@news.shuswap.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm3-12.shuswap.net X-Trace: 25 Jun 2001 22:16:46 -0700, salmonarm3-12.shuswap.net Lines: 28 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!feed.textport.net!news.bnb-lp.com!nubby2.!salmonarm3-12.shuswap.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84606 "PL" wrote: > >"Gene Wirchenko" wrote in message >news:3b36c457.309270494@news.shuswap.net... >> dowe@krikkit.localdomain (Dowe Keller) wrote: >> >> >On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Torsten wrote: >> > >> >>they were once the regular verbs (they were declined by changing >> >>the wovel). >> > ^^^^^ What's a wovel? ;-) >> >> Something dealt with in a thread. >> > >Nah, that would be a "weavel". In this newsgroup, the use of the past tense is more appropriate. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 05:01:41 GMT Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net Message-ID: <3b37ebb5.384896087@news.shuswap.net> References: <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <993076741snz@dsl.co.uk> <3b36c4d6.309397827@news.shuswap.net> <3B37C58D.9C3E9773@ev1.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm3-12.shuswap.net X-Trace: 25 Jun 2001 22:16:46 -0700, salmonarm3-12.shuswap.net Lines: 34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!news.bnb-lp.com!nubby2.!salmonarm3-12.shuswap.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84604 Charles Richmond wrote: >Gene Wirchenko wrote: >> >> Philip Newton wrote: >> >> >On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 22:39:01 GMT, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) >> >wrote: >> > >> >> In *most* languages, the commonest verbs also tend to be irregular. Such >> >> as "to be" in: English, Italian (well, all Romance languages, including >> >> French), German, Greek, etc. Ditto for "to have", "to be able", etc. >> > >> >In Japanese: "to do", "to come", and to a lesser extent, "to go". (suru, >> >kuru, iku.) To my knowledge, those are the only three irregular verbs in >> >(modern) Japanese. >> >> Cantonese has one: "to have". >> >In Chinese, the verb is *not* conjugated...so how can "to have" be >irregular??? Techincally, I suppose so, but notting in Japanese has already been mentioned. "yau" is "have". If "yau" were regular, "not have" would be "m yau". It is "mo". Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: Philip Newton Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:43:13 +0200 Organization: very little Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <993076741snz@dsl.co.uk> Reply-To: "Philip 'Yes, that's my address' Newton" NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.12.62.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 993537794 13461288 212.12.62.7 (16 [11583]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!212.12.62.7!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84314 On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:04:27 +0900, Paul Guertin wrote: > Philip Newton wrote: > > > > Two more: "to be" (aru) becomes "nai" in the negative instead of *aranai. > > > > (Though one could, perhaps, make a point that 'nai' is a suppletive form > > and not really part of the conjugation of 'aru'.) > > One could, but then what would one answer when asked how to conjugate > "aru" in the negative, plain form? "'aru' does not have a negative, plain form; instead, forms of 'nai' are substituted". Just like the infinitive form of "I can" in English is "to be able to", not *"to can". Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton Yes, that really is my address; no need to remove anything to reply. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. ###### Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 Organization: I do not speak for anyone but myself, and barely that. References: <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <992738249snz@dsl.co.uk> <9h20at$4rc$1@raewyn.paradise.net.nz> From: dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: Lines: 28 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:59:38 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.240.131 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 993570753 62.255.240.131 (Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:52:33 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:52:33 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet-peer!btnet!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84831 In article <9h20at$4rc$1@raewyn.paradise.net.nz>, don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) writes: [...] > I recall a long time ago teaching myself C, doing simulations of coing > flips, simply using rand() % 2 to indicate heads or tails. I was getting > absolutely 50% results, when I wasn't expecting it. A bit more playing > and I found that the "random" numbers (from rand()) alternated even and > odd. Uh-huh. I was once writing a graphics benchmark, and was using the following algorithm: for (i=0; i<10000; i++) { x = rnd(width); y = rnd(height); plot(x, y); } When I ran it, out came this perfect grid. Aaaah! Fixing the RNG fixed it. -- +- David Given --------McQ-+ | Work: dg@tao-group.com | C:\DOS, C:\DOS\RUN, RUN\DOS\RUN | Play: dg@cowlark.com | +- http://www.cowlark.com -+ ###### From: jra@dorothy.msas.net (Jay R. Ashworth) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <3B30D686.A7185332@ev1.net> <9h2obn$5i2$1@news.cybercity.dk> <3b36c457.309270494@news.shuswap.net> Reply-To: jra@baylink.com Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 18 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 15:03:49 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.92.16.197 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.tampabay.rr.com 993567829 24.92.16.197 (Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:03:49 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:03:49 EDT Organization: RoadRunner - TampaBay Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!typhoon.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84758 *Right* in the middle of the appendectomy, PL turned to Hawkeye and me and said: > > > ^^^^^ What's a wovel? ;-) > > Something dealt with in a thread. > > Nah, that would be a "weavel". Well, weavels wovel, but they don't fall down. Cheers, - jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows ###### From: idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk (Dr Ivan D. Reid) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 19:25:42 +0000 (UTC) Organization: (Posted via) GTS Netcom - Public USENET Service http://pubnews.netcom.net.uk Lines: 35 Sender: idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk Message-ID: References: <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <992738249snz@dsl.co.uk> <9h20at$4rc$1@raewyn.paradise.net.nz> Reply-To: idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: ax9.hep.ucl.ac.uk X-Trace: taliesin.netcom.net.uk 993583542 867 128.40.4.79 (26 Jun 2001 19:25:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@corp.netcom.net.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 19:25:42 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.3 (OSF1) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!idr Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84721 On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:59:38 +0100, David Given wrote in : >In article <9h20at$4rc$1@raewyn.paradise.net.nz>, > don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) writes: >[...] >> I recall a long time ago teaching myself C, doing simulations of coing >> flips, simply using rand() % 2 to indicate heads or tails. I was getting >> absolutely 50% results, when I wasn't expecting it. A bit more playing >> and I found that the "random" numbers (from rand()) alternated even and >> odd. Uh-huh. >I was once writing a graphics benchmark, and was using the following >algorithm: >for (i=0; i<10000; i++) >{ > x = rnd(width); > y = rnd(height); > plot(x, y); >} >When I ran it, out came this perfect grid. Aaaah! >Fixing the RNG fixed it. Yes. that's a known failing of various PRNGs, especially linear- congruential et al. where r(n+1) depends only on r(n) (so given x=r(n), y=r(n+1) is predetermined!). Sometimes you need to zoom in to see the pattern. -- Ivan Reid, Physics & Astronomy, University College London. idr@hep.ucl.ac.uk GSX600F, RG250WD. "You Porsche. Me pass!" DoD #484 JKLO# 003, 005 WP7# 3000 LC Unit #2368 (tinlc) UKMC#00009 BOTAFOT#16 UKRMMA#7 (Hon) KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty". ###### From: Maniac Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:46:34 -0500 Organization: Maniacs Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <3b36c457.309270494@news.shuswap.net> <3b37eb7c.384839498@news.shuswap.net> Reply-To: Maniac@alltel.net NNTP-Posting-Host: cras90p8.navix.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit X-Trace: iac5.navix.net 993613449 19552 162.40.68.10 (27 Jun 2001 03:44:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@navix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jun 2001 03:44:09 GMT User-Agent: KNode/0.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-peer-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!uunet!lax.uu.net!news.navix.net!alltel.net!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84330 Gene Wirchenko wrote: > "PL" wrote: > >> >>"Gene Wirchenko" wrote in message >>news:3b36c457.309270494@news.shuswap.net... >>> dowe@krikkit.localdomain (Dowe Keller) wrote: >>> >>> >On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Torsten wrote: >>> > >>> >>they were once the regular verbs (they were declined by changing >>> >>the wovel). >>> > ^^^^^ What's a wovel? ;-) >>> >>> Something dealt with in a thread. >>> >> >>Nah, that would be a "weavel". Are you about to say Weavels wovel but they don't fall down? Sorry .... old american commercial can't remember it exactly Was it Weebles? -- Maniac@alltel.net 40° 37' 9" N, 96° 57' 24" W A single tasking guy in multi tasking world. ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 03:00:01 GMT Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net Message-ID: <3b392fc7.467873306@news.shuswap.net> References: <9gd6qk$j8e$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <6usnh0dqyx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9gipq6$b4h$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> <9gkr0v$br1$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <9gnh88$2kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net> <3B2FFFD0.1E93C30@ev1.net> <3B30526C.FFDD18DF@hotmail.com> <3B30D686.A7185332@ev1.net> <9h2obn$5i2$1@news.cybercity.dk> <3b36c457.309270494@news.shuswap.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm3-05.shuswap.net X-Trace: 26 Jun 2001 20:15:12 -0700, salmonarm3-05.shuswap.net Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!nntp1.njy.teleglobe.net!teleglobe.net!nntp.cifnet.net!out.nntp.be!propagator-dallas!news-in-dallas.newsfeeds.com!news.bnb-lp.com!nubby2.!salmonarm3-05.shuswap.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84596 jra@dorothy.msas.net (Jay R. Ashworth) wrote: >*Right* in the middle of the appendectomy, PL turned > to Hawkeye and me and said: >> > > ^^^^^ What's a wovel? ;-) >> > Something dealt with in a thread. >> >> Nah, that would be a "weavel". > >Well, weavels wovel, but they don't fall down. ^^^^^^^^^ "crash", "hang", "wedge"? Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: "Don Chiasson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <992738249snz@dsl.co.uk> <9h20at$4rc$1@raewyn.paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Lines: 36 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:53:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.42.241.65 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news3.rdc1.on.home.com 993685999 24.42.241.65 (Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:53:19 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:53:19 PDT Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news3.rdc1.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84809 "Dr Ivan D. Reid" wrote in message news:slrn9jhodl.u53.idr@ax9.hep.ucl.ac.uk... > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 10:59:38 +0100, David Given > wrote in : > >In article <9h20at$4rc$1@raewyn.paradise.net.nz>, > > don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) writes: <> > >I was once writing a graphics benchmark, and was using the following > >algorithm: > > >for (i=0; i<10000; i++) > >{ > > x = rnd(width); > > y = rnd(height); > > plot(x, y); > >} > > >When I ran it, out came this perfect grid. Aaaah! > > >Fixing the RNG fixed it. > > Yes. that's a known failing of various PRNGs, especially linear- > congruential et al. where r(n+1) depends only on r(n) (so given x=r(n), > y=r(n+1) is predetermined!). Sometimes you need to zoom in to see the > pattern. > You have to be careful of optimizers which may note that the procedure is always called with the same arguments, and so do two calls to rnd before the loop rather than 10,000 times. Don e-mail: it's not not, it's hot. ###### From: dowe@krikkit.localdomain (Dowe Keller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) References: <3b36c457.309270494@news.shuswap.net> <3b37eb7c.384839498@news.shuswap.net> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.3pl4 (Linux) NNTP-Posting-Host: 206-169-218-229.sierratel.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 206-169-218-229.sierratel.com Date: 27 Jun 2001 20:47:07 -0700 X-Trace: 27 Jun 2001 20:47:07 -0700, 206-169-218-229.sierratel.com Organization: news.sierratel.com Lines: 30 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!news.sierratel.com!dowe Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84992 On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:46:34 -0500, Maniac wrote: >Gene Wirchenko wrote: > >> "PL" wrote: >> >>> >>>"Gene Wirchenko" wrote in message >>>news:3b36c457.309270494@news.shuswap.net... >>>> dowe@krikkit.localdomain (Dowe Keller) wrote: >>>> >>>> >On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Torsten wrote: >>>> > >>>> >>they were once the regular verbs (they were declined by changing >>>> >>the wovel). >>>> > ^^^^^ What's a wovel? ;-) >>>> >>>> Something dealt with in a thread. >>>> >>> >>>Nah, that would be a "weavel". >Are you about to say Weavels wovel but they don't fall down? > >Sorry .... old american commercial can't remember it exactly >Was it Weebles? Yes, a toy commercial to be exact. -- dowe@sierratel.com Homepage: http://www.sierratel.com/dowe Project : http://freshmeat.net/projects/vsh ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:27:45 +0200 Organization: Wanadoo NL Lines: 22 Message-ID: <20010628082745.6c40b51e.steveo@eircom.net> References: <3B2B726D.7BD6A382@trailing-edge.com> <992738249snz@dsl.co.uk> <9h20at$4rc$1@raewyn.paradise.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p1285.vcu.wanadoo.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: scavenger.euro.net 993749184 57231 194.134.170.10 (28 Jun 2001 17:26:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:26:24 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.4.99cvs3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-unknown-freebsdelf4.3) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!news.euronet.nl!ams-gw.sohara.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84663 On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:53:19 GMT "Don Chiasson" wrote: DC> > >for (i=0; i<10000; i++) DC> > >{ DC> > > x = rnd(width); DC> > > y = rnd(height); DC> > > plot(x, y); DC> > >} DC> You have to be careful of optimizers which may note that the procedure DC> is always called with the same arguments, and so do two calls to rnd before DC> the loop rather than 10,000 times. At which point an optimiser may note that the arguments to plot are constant and remove the loop altogether. -- Directable Mirrors - A Better Way To Focus The Sun http://www.best.com/~sohara ###### From: "PL" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3b36c457.309270494@news.shuswap.net> <3b37eb7c.384839498@news.shuswap.net> Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Lines: 40 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 04:40:14 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.254.165.54 X-Complaints-To: news@primus.ca X-Trace: news1.tor.primus.ca 993717521 216.254.165.54 (Thu, 28 Jun 2001 04:38:41 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 04:38:41 EDT Organization: Primus Canada Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!feeder.qis.net!feed.nntp.primus.ca!feed.nntp.primus.ca!news1.tor.primus.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84723 "Maniac" wrote in message news:ac3bh9.42q.ln@alltel.net... > Gene Wirchenko wrote: > > > "PL" wrote: > > > >> > >>"Gene Wirchenko" wrote in message > >>news:3b36c457.309270494@news.shuswap.net... > >>> dowe@krikkit.localdomain (Dowe Keller) wrote: > >>> > >>> >On Sat, 23 Jun 2001, Torsten wrote: > >>> > > >>> >>they were once the regular verbs (they were declined by changing > >>> >>the wovel). > >>> > ^^^^^ What's a wovel? ;-) > >>> > >>> Something dealt with in a thread. > >>> > >> > >>Nah, that would be a "weavel". > Are you about to say Weavels wovel but they don't fall down? > > Sorry .... old american commercial can't remember it exactly > Was it Weebles? "Weebles wobble but they don't fall down" That commercial barely missed my "hit" list (um, not as in "greatest hits"), the latest addition to which is "Zoom, Zoom, Zoom". Rick > > -- > Maniac@alltel.net 40° 37' 9" N, 96° 57' 24" W > A single tasking guy in multi tasking world. ###### From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:08:05 +0100 Organization: All yuor pie are belong to us!! Message-ID: References: <3b37eb7c.384839498@news.shuswap.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 993741664 nnrp-12:15000 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Originator: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Lines: 13 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84417 According to PL : > "Weebles wobble but they don't fall down" > > That commercial barely missed my "hit" list (um, not as in "greatest hits"), > the latest addition to which is "Zoom, Zoom, Zoom". There's a thrash metal version of "Weebles Wobble..." on Lawnmower Deth's "Ooh Crikey It's ..." album. Er, FWIW. Chris. -- //USENET01 JOB (CBH,ISA),'TALKING BOLLOCKS',REGION=4000K,CLASS=F, // MSGCLASS=A,PASSWORD=WIBBLE,USER=CBH,COND=(04,LT) ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Passwords (was Re: Energy costs) Date: 28 Jun 2001 10:03:40 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 10 Message-ID: <9hevds$i7t$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <3b36c457.309270494@news.shuswap.net> <3b37eb7c.384839498@news.shuswap.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 993722620 18685 134.117.136.30 (28 Jun 2001 10:03:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jun 2001 10:03:40 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!torn!cunews!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:84635 "PL" (greybear.removenospam@primus.ca) writes: > ... > That commercial barely missed my "hit" list (um, not as in "greatest hits"), > the latest addition to which is "Zoom, Zoom, Zoom". And those guys are are losing money, big time. Go Figure. (Are there lots of young kids in suits getting the crap beaten out of them?)