From: Doug Warner Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:26:59 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 28 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75339 I've worked on hard drives since the hydraulic days, so I'm familiar with the classic diagrams showing the relative sizes of tiny items like hair, somke particles, dust, relative to the (then large) head flying height. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=246261&a=9878117&p=39822675 Before tossing an old Samsung 426MB drive, I decided to see how long it would run with the cover off. I used a random file generator to fill it, then turned a dile listing into a batch file that copied every file to NUL:. Sorted by (random) filename, it produced nearly constant seek activity. I ran it on top of an old P-90 system in the office, running constantly, At one point, I even sprinkled paper dust on top of it, (one bad file the next day). One morning I found it stopped, with a fingerprint and a number of specks on the top platter surface. I cleaned it by breathing on it and wiping with kleenex. This was after about four weeks. Last Friday, it started failing heavily, reading 1-5 files before pausing in retries, often generating a read fault. I suspect one of the heads got contaminated or damaged. The two files that had failed earlier were bypassed by removing their lines from the batch file. Why? Because I wanted to know. To reply, please remove one letter from each side of "@" Spammers are scammers, avoid them! ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:18:33 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.0a.2a X-Server-Date: 11 Feb 2001 20:16:15 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!hshubs Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75355 In article , Doug Warner wrote: >Why? Because I wanted to know. It sounds like an interesting experiment at least. Everything seems to imply that dirt will immediately kill a hard disk, but your test seems to refute that. I wonder if anyone else has actually done this before on a statisically significant number of devices. Also, the fact that the drive was already old when you started might have biased the test to a shorter duration than what might have worked with a new device, no? -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: 11 Feb 2001 22:39:16 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 27 Message-ID: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 981927557 1400 10.0.3.2 (11 Feb 2001 21:39:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Feb 2001 21:39:17 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75358 Howard S Shubs writes: > In article , Doug Warner > wrote: > > Everything seems to imply > that dirt will immediately kill a hard disk, but your test seems to refute > that. I wonder if anyone else has actually done this before on a statisically > significant number of devices. Also not statistical (just one drive). An colleague of mine tried the same experiment. The disk (and 5 1/4" PC drive, in the 50-100M range) kept on working (unknown amount of time, he did not report that). So he took it to an exhibition and demonstrated it running open. In such an environment it was still running at the end of the day. So he then went with an screwdriver onto the surface and had metal bits flying. After a few seconds (!) of that, the Amiga running off that drive crashed. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng FH/BSc, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Mon, 12 Feb 01 11:31:30 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 40 Message-ID: <968m0h$4hd$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <7rJh6.11303$bK4.3751597@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVb0Emit5qBelw4Cb4ufIdoAN4Ut6ZFGBWvKp77HGGUMPv9wXl0f793d X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Feb 2001 12:47:13 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-180 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75387 In article <7rJh6.11303$bK4.3751597@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, Ric Werme wrote: >Doug Warner writes: > >>I ran it on top of an old P-90 system in the office, running >>constantly, At one point, I even sprinkled paper dust on top of it, >>(one bad file the next day). One morning I found it stopped, with a >>fingerprint and a number of specks on the top platter surface. I >>cleaned it by breathing on it and wiping with kleenex. This was after >>about four weeks. > >That's mightily impressive. I'd guess the coatings that allow the disk to >stop with the heads sitting on the disk are a key. > >On the other hand, once in DEC's Mill, a Telco person was running a >new phone line by tossing it over the hanging fluourescent lights. >On one toss he hit the bulb, it fell out, landed square on the disk >drive (washing machine size era). A CE and I reached the power switch >in a couple seconds, but the pack inspector showed two or three bad circular >scratches in the oxide. I was a bit surprised that the glass made it >through the seal in the door and the positive pressure in the tub. > >I guess there's something to be said for paying the money for a suspended >ceiling, even in basement computer rooms. We did have a suspended ceiling in the machine room in Marlboro. Unfortunately, it was on Floor 2 with another floor above it. Once upon a time, a water leak occurred. The plant engineer who was called to prevent the water from leaking down onto the KL-10 solved the problem by putting a bucket in the ceiling to catch the drips. One day, our lead operator was talking to one of the development guys who was on his way out the door. The pail fell down and almost eliminated our best operator. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Message-ID: <3A85C5A2.7B8A@indyx.net> From: freddy1X Reply-To: freddy1X Organization: IndyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04C-IndyNet (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <6DEC00589569080B.FE66534B4F71A748.71B9CEE36437EFCB@lp.airnews.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:50:10 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.183.73.73 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onemain.com X-Trace: nntp2.onemain.com 982018197 209.183.73.73 (Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:49:57 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:49:57 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!nntp2.onemain.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75440 Jay Maynard wrote: > > On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:51:04 -0500, Howard S Shubs > wrote: > >I guess pulling the power from it never occurred to him. > > Given my experience with Maxtors, shooting it is more merciful: it removes > the temptation to reuse the thing. You sound bitter. :) Have you ever had the (good) fortune to encounter Xebeck drives? I would say that instead of a MTBF, that those drives had a MFBT. -- protect from freezing /\>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\/ /\ I may be demented \/ /\ but I'm not crazy! \/ /\<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<\/ * SPAyM trap: there is no X in my address * || attatch FLAME here || \/ \/ X ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: 11 Feb 2001 22:33:49 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 981930829 28994 134.117.136.30 (11 Feb 2001 22:33:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Feb 2001 22:33:49 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75408 Neil Franklin (neil@franklin.ch.remove) writes: > An colleague of mine tried the same experiment. The disk (and 5 1/4" > PC drive, in the 50-100M range) kept on working (unknown amount of > time, he did not report that). > > So he took it to an exhibition and demonstrated it running open. In > such an environment it was still running at the end of the day. > > So he then went with an screwdriver onto the surface and had metal > bits flying. After a few seconds (!) of that, the Amiga running off > that drive crashed. I shall report you to the appropriate authorities, (as soon as I figure out who they are)! I'd rather wear fur than subject a defenceless drive to that kind of torture. Shame upon you all. (Wanna bet some kid is going to go dumpster diving to herd up a bunch of drives then submits this kind of thing as a school science project?) ###### Sender: marc@hana.snafu.org Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> From: Marco S Hyman Message-ID: Organization: S.N.A.F.U. -- http://www.snafu.org/ Lines: 31 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 00:55:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.54.48.250 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: sjc-read.news.verio.net 981939315 206.54.48.250 (Mon, 12 Feb 2001 00:55:15 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 00:55:15 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!korova.insync.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!howland.erols.net!cyclone2.usenetserver.com.MISMATCH!news-out.usenetserver.com!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!sjc-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75404 ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes: > > So he then went with an screwdriver onto the surface and had metal > > bits flying. After a few seconds (!) of that, the Amiga running off > > that drive crashed. > > I shall report you to the appropriate authorities, (as soon as I > figure out who they are)! > > I'd rather wear fur than subject a defenceless drive to that kind > of torture. Shame upon you all. Heh... If you didn't like that then you'll HATE this: http://www.monkey.org/openbsd/archive/misc/0007/msg01182.html in which a user describes his testing of IDE mirroring software by causing a hardware error by... My next test is probably closer to silly than meaningful. [DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. Don't even try it at someone else's home. This is a silly and stupid thing to do.] I mirrored up a pair of 120M drives, loaded OpenBSD on them (it WAS possible!), and shot one of the drives with a gunpowder-powered nail gun (basicly, a gun which shoots a nail instead of a bullet, powered by a .22cal. blank charge)... The author still has the picture available at http://members.home.net/njholland/pix/nailed.jpg // marc ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:51:04 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.00.34 X-Server-Date: 12 Feb 2001 01:51:10 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.44!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!news.mindspring.net!hshubs Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75438 In article , Marco S Hyman wrote: >in which a user describes his testing of IDE mirroring software by >causing a hardware error by... > > My next test is probably closer to silly than meaningful. [DO NOT TRY > THIS AT HOME. Don't even try it at someone else's home. This is a > silly and stupid thing to do.] I mirrored up a pair of 120M drives, > loaded OpenBSD on them (it WAS possible!), and shot one of the drives > with a gunpowder-powered nail gun (basicly, a gun which shoots a nail > instead of a bullet, powered by a .22cal. blank charge)... I guess pulling the power from it never occurred to him. -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: 12 Feb 2001 02:07:34 GMT Organization: Neosoft (using Airnews.net!) Lines: 6 Message-ID: <6DEC00589569080B.FE66534B4F71A748.71B9CEE36437EFCB@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library2.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Sun Feb 11 20:07:34 2001 NNTP-Posting-Host: !c#q)1k-WS%WK,& (Encoded at Airnews!) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!news-out.nntp.airnews.net.MISMATCH!cabal10.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal14.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!jmaynard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75380 On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:51:04 -0500, Howard S Shubs wrote: >I guess pulling the power from it never occurred to him. Given my experience with Maxtors, shooting it is more merciful: it removes the temptation to reuse the thing. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! References: From: Ric Werme X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #119 Lines: 27 Message-ID: <7rJh6.11303$bK4.3751597@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 04:14:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.91.12.32 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.ne.mediaone.net 981951299 24.91.12.32 (Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:14:59 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:14:59 EST Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.8.202!typhoon.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75433 Doug Warner writes: >I ran it on top of an old P-90 system in the office, running >constantly, At one point, I even sprinkled paper dust on top of it, >(one bad file the next day). One morning I found it stopped, with a >fingerprint and a number of specks on the top platter surface. I >cleaned it by breathing on it and wiping with kleenex. This was after >about four weeks. That's mightily impressive. I'd guess the coatings that allow the disk to stop with the heads sitting on the disk are a key. On the other hand, once in DEC's Mill, a Telco person was running a new phone line by tossing it over the hanging fluourescent lights. On one toss he hit the bulb, it fell out, landed square on the disk drive (washing machine size era). A CE and I reached the power switch in a couple seconds, but the pack inspector showed two or three bad circular scratches in the oxide. I was a bit surprised that the glass made it through the seal in the door and the positive pressure in the tub. I guess there's something to be said for paying the money for a suspended ceiling, even in basement computer rooms. -Ric Werme -- Ric Werme | werme@nospam.mediaone.net http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme | ^^^^^^^ delete ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: 11 Feb 2001 22:45:40 -0700 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 25 Message-ID: <1bzofs5u9n.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 981956737 11049 128.123.64.113 (12 Feb 2001 05:45:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Feb 2001 05:45:37 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!novia!atl1-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75391 Howard S Shubs writes: > In article , Marco S Hyman > wrote: > > >in which a user describes his testing of IDE mirroring software by > >causing a hardware error by... > > > > My next test is probably closer to silly than meaningful. [DO NOT TRY > > THIS AT HOME. Don't even try it at someone else's home. This is a > > silly and stupid thing to do.] I mirrored up a pair of 120M drives, > > loaded OpenBSD on them (it WAS possible!), and shot one of the drives > > with a gunpowder-powered nail gun (basicly, a gun which shoots a nail > > instead of a bullet, powered by a .22cal. blank charge)... > > I guess pulling the power from it never occurred to him. I'm sure it did. But shooting it sounds like a lot more fun (I'm getting a terrific mental image of putting a really long cable on a disk, and loading it up on a clay pigeon launcher...). -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer SWNMRSEF: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! From: anon@anon.net (JM Carmack) References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> Message-ID: <90469628Cjmccflas@151.164.30.56> User-Agent: Xnews/03.07.28 Lines: 13 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:41:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.188.23.167 X-Complaints-To: abuse@swbell.net X-Trace: nnrp1.sbc.net 982010510 208.188.23.167 (Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:41:50 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:41:50 CST Organization: SBC Internet Services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!howland.erols.net!panix!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!bos-service1.ext.raytheon.com!cyclone.swbell.net!nnrp1.sbc.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75360 hshubs@mindspring.com (Howard S Shubs) wrote in : >> the drives with a gunpowder-powered nail gun (basicly, a gun which >> shoots a nail instead of a bullet, powered by a .22cal. blank >> charge)... > >I guess pulling the power from it never occurred to him. Actually, it did occurr to him. Read the post cited in the first link. He was testing the DupliDisk disk mirroring card. It failed this test and had no clue that anything was even remotely wrong when the power was taken from one of the drives. ###### From: andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: 12 Feb 2001 21:39:41 GMT Organization: home Message-ID: <969l6t$4pv@cucumber.demon.co.uk> References: <7rJh6.11303$bK4.3751597@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cucumber X-NNTP-Posting-Host: cucumber.demon.co.uk:158.152.58.86 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 982016954 nnrp-14:6842 NO-IDENT cucumber.demon.co.uk:158.152.58.86 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.6 Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!cucumber.demon.co.uk!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75409 In article <7rJh6.11303$bK4.3751597@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, Ric Werme writes: > >On the other hand, once in DEC's Mill, a Telco person was running a >new phone line by tossing it over the hanging fluourescent lights. >On one toss he hit the bulb, it fell out, landed square on the disk >drive (washing machine size era). A CE and I reached the power switch >in a couple seconds, but the pack inspector showed two or three bad circular >scratches in the oxide. I was a bit surprised that the glass made it >through the seal in the door and the positive pressure in the tub. I doubt it did. Two suggestions: the shock of the tube landing on the mech (particularly end-on) could cause a head-touch, and secondly, the head touch happened some time before and hadn't been noticed. I used such packs for some 15 years, and it was routine when we had a head-crash to go back through all the packs which had been on all the mechs on which the head crashed pack had been on, and inspect them. On a few occasions, we found head crashed packs which were working fine - head crashed surface was not the surface implicated in the incident we were tracking and the head crash had not happend on any of the mechs the pack had recently been on (can tell by inspecting the relevant surface's head). Obviously that area of the surface was not being used as the data would be lost, but the heads were crossing/flying over it without any further problems. So once a surface touch happens, and even goes on to become a head-crash, it isn't inevitable that the whole pack completely fails (although this is the most common outcome if pack stays run-up for some time). -- Andrew Gabriel Consultant Software Engineer ###### From: Doug Warner Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:37:10 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <7rJh6.11303$bK4.3751597@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75439 Ric Werme wrote: >Doug Warner writes: > >>I ran it on top of an old P-90 system in the office, running >>constantly, At one point, I even sprinkled paper dust on top of it, >>(one bad file the next day). One morning I found it stopped, with a >>fingerprint and a number of specks on the top platter surface. I >>cleaned it by breathing on it and wiping with kleenex. This was after >>about four weeks. > >That's mightily impressive. I'd guess the coatings that allow the disk to >stop with the heads sitting on the disk are a key. My theory is that the platters are party shielded by the film of air they're dragging around with them, Most dust particles will "surf" across this air and away without harm. This moving air would also create a high presure zone at their leading edges of the heads, would also tend to steer particles away. Add to this that the heads are very small, so a particle would have to be in exactly the right place at the right time to get trapped. To reply, please remove one letter from each side of "@" Spammers are scammers, avoid them! ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: 13 Feb 2001 03:45:09 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 6 Message-ID: <96aak5$stq$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <7rJh6.11303$bK4.3751597@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 982035909 29626 134.117.136.30 (13 Feb 2001 03:45:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Feb 2001 03:45:09 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!europa.netcrusader.net!209.130.129.214!nntp.frontiernet.net!nntp.gblx.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75410 Doug Warner (dwarnerr@ccharter.net) writes: > > My theory is that the platters are party shielded by the film of air > they're dragging around with them, Sooo - there's truth in that "cloaking" stuff. ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:25:06 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <90469628Cjmccflas@151.164.30.56> NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.0a.25 X-Server-Date: 13 Feb 2001 05:24:31 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!hshubs Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75435 In article <90469628Cjmccflas@151.164.30.56>, anon@anon.net (JM Carmack) wrote: >Actually, it did occurr to him. Read the post cited in the first link. He >was testing the DupliDisk disk mirroring card. It failed this test and had >no clue that anything was even remotely wrong when the power was taken from >one of the drives Yeah, that's bad. Bad card! bad card! No power for -you-! -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: 13 Feb 2001 17:15:34 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 23 Message-ID: <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> wrote: : On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:51:04 -0500, Howard S Shubs : wrote: : >I guess pulling the power from it never occurred to him. : Given my experience with Maxtors, shooting it is more merciful: it removes : the temptation to reuse the thing. Actually, I WAS inclined to believe that until I bought a 15 GB Maxtor drive a couple of months ago. I had a 350 MB Maxtor drive from years ago that was louder that just being loud. It was annoying! It worked but I knew it could never be put into a system and sold to a happy customer. In any event, I bought this 15 GB thinking, "oh geez, here I have this loud drive in this quiet area," etc. Well to my pleasant surprise the darn thing is quiet and works well, too! I don't work for Maxtor and am not affilated with them in any way. Just sharing my recent experience and empathizing with your previous ones as well. Eric ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 20:49:38 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.00.af X-Server-Date: 14 Feb 2001 01:49:38 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!209.50.235.254!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.44!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!news.mindspring.net!hshubs Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75499 In article <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net>, Eric Chomko wrote: >Actually, I WAS inclined to believe that until I bought a 15 GB >Maxtor drive a couple of months ago. I had a 350 MB Maxtor drive from >years ago that was louder that just being loud. It was annoying! It worked >but I knew it could never be put into a system and sold to a happy >customer. Did it start out noisy, or did that only happen over time? -- Howard S Shubs "Run in circles, scream and shout!" "I hope you have good backups!" ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! From: anon@anon.net (JM Carmack) References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> Message-ID: <90485F9B9jmccflas@151.164.30.57> User-Agent: Xnews/03.07.28 Lines: 35 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:24:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.188.25.168 X-Complaints-To: abuse@swbell.net X-Trace: nnrp2.sbc.net 982164285 208.188.25.168 (Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:24:45 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:24:45 CST Organization: SBC Internet Services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!bos-service1.ext.raytheon.com!cyclone.swbell.net!nnrp2.sbc.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75525 Funny thing, Maxtor just released a 15Gb single-surface single-head drive in an effort to produce a more "robust" and damage-resistant product. That'd be great if they could produce a decent drive to begin with. Maxtor drives are notorious for catastrophic failure and the fact that on a lot of recent systems they *insist* on having the "Maxblast" software installed in the bootstrap to map to the BIOS normally. Personally I've had two Maxtor 1.6Gb drives that failed. The warranty replacements from Maxtor also failed. At that point I swore them off. All drives lost data on the order of 500Mb at a time. When the head hits this area, the IDE bus (and consequently the system) locks up for about 2 minutes while the drive decides that it can't really read that section. Low-level formatting produced no errors but didn't solve the problem either. Oh well, one less option to choose from. chomko@IDT.NET (Eric Chomko) wrote in <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net>: > >Actually, I WAS inclined to believe that until I bought a 15 GB >Maxtor drive a couple of months ago. I had a 350 MB Maxtor drive from >years ago that was louder that just being loud. It was annoying! It >worked but I knew it could never be put into a system and sold to a >happy customer. > >In any event, I bought this 15 GB thinking, "oh geez, here I have this >loud drive in this quiet area," etc. Well to my pleasant surprise the >darn thing is quiet and works well, too! > >I don't work for Maxtor and am not affilated with them in any way. Just >sharing my recent experience and empathizing with your previous ones as >well. > >Eric ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: 14 Feb 2001 17:14:08 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 17 Message-ID: <96eed0$fhm@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> wrote: : In article <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net>, Eric Chomko : wrote: : >Actually, I WAS inclined to believe that until I bought a 15 GB : >Maxtor drive a couple of months ago. I had a 350 MB Maxtor drive from : >years ago that was louder that just being loud. It was annoying! It worked : >but I knew it could never be put into a system and sold to a happy : >customer. : Did it start out noisy, or did that only happen over time? I got it used so can't say for sure. But it looked pretty new. I suspect that it was loud from the start and the guy dumped to me due to the noisiness of the drive. Eric ###### From: benc@krustbustr.hawaga.org.uk (Ben Clifford) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:21:53 +0000 Organization: benZone Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <1bzofs5u9n.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu> Reply-To: benc@benzone.freeserve.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-7-111-85.btinternet.com X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!btnet-peer1!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!benc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75528 On 11 Feb 2001 22:45:40 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: >> > I mirrored up a pair of 120M drives, >> > loaded OpenBSD on them (it WAS possible!), and shot one of the drives >> > with a gunpowder-powered nail gun >> I guess pulling the power from it never occurred to him. >I'm sure it did. But shooting it sounds like a lot more fun (I'm >getting a terrific mental image of putting a really long cable on a >disk, and loading it up on a clay pigeon launcher...). That would probably look more spectacular in a visual demonstration to potential customers, as well... something that would be a fun demo to do at a trade show... -- http://www.hawaga.org.uk/travel/ for my rotating world map applet http://www.hawaga.org.uk/benc_key.txt PGP / GPG key 0x30F06950 - please use it! ###### From: andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: 15 Feb 2001 06:47:15 GMT Organization: home Message-ID: <96fu1j$781@cucumber.demon.co.uk> References: <7rJh6.11303$bK4.3751597@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cucumber X-NNTP-Posting-Host: cucumber.demon.co.uk:158.152.58.86 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 982232519 nnrp-02:25447 NO-IDENT cucumber.demon.co.uk:158.152.58.86 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.6 Lines: 29 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!newshub1.nl.home.com!news.nl.home.com!bullseye.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!cucumber.demon.co.uk!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75610 In article , Doug Warner writes: > >My theory is that the platters are party shielded by the film of air >they're dragging around with them, Most dust particles will "surf" >across this air and away without harm. This moving air would also >create a high presure zone at their leading edges of the heads, would >also tend to steer particles away. Add to this that the heads are >very small, so a particle would have to be in exactly the right place >at the right time to get trapped. With exchangable mechs, dust does hit and stick to the head (not the flying surface, but the surface perpendicular to the platter). If you never carried out the routine maintenance, eventually a lump of dust would fall off this surface and go under the head, likely triggered by some incident such as someone walking into the drive. This can result in head-touch marks on the platters and flying surface of the heads, and in some cases can go on to become a head crash. It's really obvious when this is the likely cause, because you can see the uniform layer of dust on the head sides, with small areas missing where it's dropped off. Of course, the heads should never have got this dirty in the first place, but if you never changed the filters or cleaned the bowl or heads until you had a head crash, that's what you eventually happened. -- Andrew Gabriel Consultant Software Engineer ###### From: dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:24:30 +0000 Organization: I do not speak for anyone but myself, and barely that. Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 27 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!news.stealth.net!feed.textport.net!sn-xit-04!sn-uk-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.co.uk!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75696 In article <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net>, Eric Chomko writes: [...] > Actually, I WAS inclined to believe that until I bought a 15 GB > Maxtor drive a couple of months ago. I had a 350 MB Maxtor drive from > years ago that was louder that just being loud. It was annoying! It worked > but I knew it could never be put into a system and sold to a happy > customer. > > In any event, I bought this 15 GB thinking, "oh geez, here I have this > loud drive in this quiet area," etc. Well to my pleasant surprise the darn > thing is quiet and works well, too! My school's first PC was a 286 with a 40MB Winchester. It had a squeaky bearing. Since it was a sealed unit, of course, it couldn't be lubricated; so we just had to live with the squeaking. It would come and go, and vary from a exasperating whistle to a maddening shriek from the pits of hell. Forget trenchcoats, *this* could make you homicidal. I recently bought a Fujitsu 20MB drive. It was so quiet that when I plugged it in, I had to check to make sure it was spinning. -- +- David Given ---------------McQ-+ | Work: dg@tao-group.com | Reality is for people who can't cope with | Play: dgiven@iname.com | science fiction. +- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+ ###### From: "Williams, Steve" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:06:05 +0100 Organization: Personal account Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.227.195.126 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: si05.rsvl.unisys.com 982310737 88568 129.227.195.126 (16 Feb 2001 08:05:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@rsvl.unisys.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Feb 2001 08:05:37 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!eanews1.unisys.com!si05!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75731 dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) wrote: >My school's first PC was a 286 with a 40MB Winchester. It had a squeaky >bearing. Was it really the bearing? Many early drives had a brass spring attached to the exterior of the housing which rode on the protruding end of the drive motor. Presumably used for grounding purposes. These were prime candidates for the very irritating sqeaking to which early drives were prone. A graphite lubricant would help. When that was not available we just adjusted the tension of the spring. The drive seemed to work OK even when the spring was not touching its contact point. ###### From: "Paul Grayson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:20:28 -0000 Organization: Customer of Energis Squared Lines: 31 Message-ID: <96iupl$vuj$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host94.bjss.co.uk X-Trace: newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net 982318709 32723 194.152.80.94 (16 Feb 2001 10:18:29 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Feb 2001 10:18:29 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75531 > In article <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net>, > Eric Chomko writes: > [...] > > Actually, I WAS inclined to believe that until I bought a 15 GB > > Maxtor drive a couple of months ago. I had a 350 MB Maxtor drive from > > years ago that was louder that just being loud. It was annoying! It worked > > but I knew it could never be put into a system and sold to a happy > > customer. > > > > In any event, I bought this 15 GB thinking, "oh geez, here I have this > > loud drive in this quiet area," etc. Well to my pleasant surprise the darn > > thing is quiet and works well, too! > > My school's first PC was a 286 with a 40MB Winchester. It had a squeaky > bearing. Since it was a sealed unit, of course, it couldn't be lubricated; > so we just had to live with the squeaking. It would come and go, and vary > from a exasperating whistle to a maddening shriek from the pits of hell. > Forget trenchcoats, *this* could make you homicidal. > I alsways remember later model Conner drives for being extreemly noisy, making constant clicking sounds when accessing the drive. They always sounded as if they were failing. Incidentally I dealt with the Conner UK fileservers around 5 years ago. They suffered more drive failures than any other site, and used their own drives exclusively. ###### From: "John Bowen" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 03:14:21 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <7rJh6.11303$bK4.3751597@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 45 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75648 Your experiment reminded me of incidents that took place in the late 60s. The IBM drives at the time were 2311s and 2314s. The disk packs were removable and the heads (drives), actuators, motors and electronics were fixed. An operator would accidentally leaved a punched card under one of the packs when he loaded it. The paper dust created would crash all the heads in a few minutes. Then the operator would try to read the pack on other drives crashing all the heads as he moved it. I saw major corporations loose all their drives when an under-trained operator would not give up trying to read data from a crashed pack. IBM would usually bill the client for this problem (more than two crashed drives) and it was a mighty costly error. John B "Ric Werme" wrote in message news:7rJh6.11303$bK4.3751597@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... > Doug Warner writes: > > >I ran it on top of an old P-90 system in the office, running > >constantly, At one point, I even sprinkled paper dust on top of it, > >(one bad file the next day). One morning I found it stopped, with a > >fingerprint and a number of specks on the top platter surface. I > >cleaned it by breathing on it and wiping with kleenex. This was after > >about four weeks. > > That's mightily impressive. I'd guess the coatings that allow the disk to > stop with the heads sitting on the disk are a key. > > On the other hand, once in DEC's Mill, a Telco person was running a > new phone line by tossing it over the hanging fluourescent lights. > On one toss he hit the bulb, it fell out, landed square on the disk > drive (washing machine size era). A CE and I reached the power switch > in a couple seconds, but the pack inspector showed two or three bad circular > scratches in the oxide. I was a bit surprised that the glass made it > through the seal in the door and the positive pressure in the tub. > > I guess there's something to be said for paying the money for a suspended > ceiling, even in basement computer rooms. > > -Ric Werme > -- > Ric Werme | werme@nospam.mediaone.net > http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme | ^^^^^^^ delete ###### From: Jim Stewart Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:15:30 -0800 Organization: http://www.jkmicro.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: X-Orig-Message-ID: <3A8D5222.5FE3438B@jkmicro.com> References: <7rJh6.11303$bK4.3751597@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> Reply-To: jstewart@jkmicro.com Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library2.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Fri Feb 16 10:10:52 2001 NNTP-Posting-Host: !ZlA-1k-Y+^Kn9(FV&2)EYVue (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!xfer10.netnews.com!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!news.stealth.net!24.30.200.2.MISMATCH!news-east.rr.com!cyclone-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!cabal10.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal11.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal14.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75556 John Bowen wrote: > > Your experiment reminded me of incidents that took place in the late 60s. > The IBM drives at the time were 2311s and 2314s. The disk packs were > removable and the heads (drives), actuators, motors and electronics were > fixed. An operator would accidentally leaved a punched card under one of the > packs when he loaded it. The paper dust created would crash all the heads in > a few minutes. Then the operator would try to read the pack on other drives > crashing all the heads as he moved it. I saw major corporations loose all > their drives when an under-trained operator would not give up trying to read > data from a crashed pack. IBM would usually bill the client for this problem > (more than two crashed drives) and it was a mighty costly error. > John B A variation on this theme would often happen with minicomputers. The site would have one cartridge drive, something like a Diablo or a DEC RK05. The heads would crash on the cartridge that was mounted. The user, thinking that only the cartridge was bad, would mount all his other cartridges, destroying them. ###### From: "Michael N. LeVine" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:45:52 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <7rJh6.11303$bK4.3751597@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 45 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!mlevine Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75707 In article , jstewart@jkmicro.com wrote: > John Bowen wrote: > > > > Your experiment reminded me of incidents that took place in the late > > 60s. > > The IBM drives at the time were 2311s and 2314s. The disk packs were > > removable and the heads (drives), actuators, motors and electronics > > were > > fixed. An operator would accidentally leaved a punched card under one > > of the > > packs when he loaded it. The paper dust created would crash all the > > heads in > > a few minutes. Then the operator would try to read the pack on other > > drives > > crashing all the heads as he moved it. I saw major corporations loose > > all > > their drives when an under-trained operator would not give up trying to > > read > > data from a crashed pack. IBM would usually bill the client for this > > problem > > (more than two crashed drives) and it was a mighty costly error. > > John B > > A variation on this theme would often happen with minicomputers. The > site would have one cartridge drive, something like a Diablo or a DEC > RK05. The heads would crash on the cartridge that was mounted. The > user, thinking that only the cartridge was bad, would mount all his > other cartridges, destroying them Another variation I heard from a DEC field service tech about an incident in a class he was takeing.A newbe tech who had been working in the field before takeing the class related to every one how he was able to double the life of an RK05 filter by just turning it around hooking up the input to the output and visa versa reversing the air flow. IIRC it was about that time that DEC came out with an ECO on filters so they could not be reversed that way. -- Michael LeVine - mlevine@redshift.com "Thirty days hath September, April, June and November. All the rest have thirty one except for Gypsy Rose Lee and every one knew what she had" - Mel Blanc ###### Message-ID: <3A8DA053.9B1A0B98@ev1.net> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:49:07 -0800 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! References: <7rJh6.11303$bK4.3751597@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: taydal-207-55-144-93.ev1.net X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 982353158 taydal-207-55-144-93.ev1.net (16 Feb 2001 13:52:38 -0600) Lines: 31 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75712 Jim Stewart wrote: > > John Bowen wrote: > > > > Your experiment reminded me of incidents that took place in the late 60s. > > The IBM drives at the time were 2311s and 2314s. The disk packs were > > removable and the heads (drives), actuators, motors and electronics were > > fixed. An operator would accidentally leaved a punched card under one of the > > packs when he loaded it. The paper dust created would crash all the heads in > > a few minutes. Then the operator would try to read the pack on other drives > > crashing all the heads as he moved it. I saw major corporations loose all > > their drives when an under-trained operator would not give up trying to read > > data from a crashed pack. IBM would usually bill the client for this problem > > (more than two crashed drives) and it was a mighty costly error. > > John B > > A variation on this theme would often happen with minicomputers. The > site would have one cartridge drive, something like a Diablo or a DEC > RK05. The heads would crash on the cartridge that was mounted. The > user, thinking that only the cartridge was bad, would mount all his > other cartridges, destroying them. > The same thing is happening with Zip drives...a bad drive can ruin *all* your cartridges...if you are goofy enough to stick them into the drive... The more things change, the more they stay the same... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: 16 Feb 2001 21:51:00 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 16 Message-ID: <96k7c4$a33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <96iupl$vuj$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: u3.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u3.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75568 Paul Grayson wrote: [...] : I alsways remember later model Conner drives for being extreemly noisy, : making constant clicking sounds when accessing the drive. They always : sounded as if they were failing. They were! Conner was notorius for "stiction" problems. : Incidentally I dealt with the Conner UK fileservers around 5 years ago. They : suffered more drive failures than any other site, and used their own drives : exclusively. Conner drives have a warning label on the that state, "Conner!" Eric ###### From: Anthony M Lenton Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Reply-To: tony.lenton@physics.org Message-ID: <7ckr8t4255q4tn25gprl1vnrfjn7b7mins@4ax.com> References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 01:32:41 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.126.142.149 X-Complaints-To: abuse@clara.net X-Trace: nnrp3.clara.net 982373565 212.126.142.149 (Sat, 17 Feb 2001 01:32:45 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 01:32:45 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news1.carrier1.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp3.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75764 On Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:06:05 +0100, "Williams, Steve" wrote: >Was it really the bearing? Many early drives had a brass spring >attached to the exterior of the housing which rode on the protruding >end of the drive motor. Presumably used for grounding purposes. These >were prime candidates for the very irritating sqeaking to which early >drives were prone. A graphite lubricant would help. When that was not >available we just adjusted the tension of the spring. The drive seemed >to work OK even when the spring was not touching its contact point. Grounding the drive spindle. Well IBM managed to ground the drive spindle on 2311 and 2314 drives with a "brass" spring but the spring grounded to the spindle by means of a bush secured with a set screw to the bottom of the spindle. I recall this was a carbon faced bush. However if the spindle was replaced because of bearing failure the replacement part came without the grounding bush, and many an engineer didn't notice this fact. The spring soon got a hole ground in it by the unbushed spindle. The resultant electric noise soon magnetically devastated the disk data. Grounding the rotating spindle was a problem even after the 2311 and 2314 drives ISTR. -- Anthony M Lenton ###### From: Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! References: <7rJh6.11303$bK4.3751597@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net> Sender: stuart@nomad X-Newsreader: SimpleNews-0.1 linux/i586 Lines: 12 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 02:33:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.214.194.13 X-Trace: news2.atl 982377192 209.214.194.13 (Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:33:12 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:33:12 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news2.atl.POSTED!nomad Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75743 Jim Stewart wrote: >A variation on this theme would often happen with minicomputers. The >site would have one cartridge drive, something like a Diablo or a DEC >RK05. The heads would crash on the cartridge that was mounted. The >user, thinking that only the cartridge was bad, would mount all his >other cartridges, destroying them. Actually, reading this makes me feel better. At least I stopped after killing the first good one. Of course, that was nearly 20 years ago and the therapy has me feeling much better now :-) Brian L. Stuart ###### From: Bruce Tomlin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 08:15:59 -0600 Organization: San Antonio, TX Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <96iupl$vuj$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <96k7c4$a33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <96lcdb$80p$1@panix2.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nukunuku.fanboy.net X-Trace: news.jump.net 982419344 26766 207.8.48.140 (17 Feb 2001 14:15:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@jump.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 14:15:44 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!news-in-austin.nuthinbutnews.com!news-feeds.jump.net!news.jump.net!bruceNS+usenet6 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75766 In article <96lcdb$80p$1@panix2.panix.com>, jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) wrote: > JTS drives - what a disaster! > Egghead loved selling them back when they had real stores. > Mine had some firmware failure: it merely ceased to exist on the ATAPI bus. > I insisted on getting the software to reinitialize it. > Well, it happened again and I can't find the floppy. > JTS is out of business and Egghead support can't help. ObFolklore: IIRC, JTS is the company that bought out the leftover remains of Atari. (The computer Atari Corp, not the arcade Atari Games that was split off from it long long ago.) ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: 17 Feb 2001 03:23:07 -0500 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 30 Message-ID: <96lcdb$80p$1@panix2.panix.com> References: <96iupl$vuj$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <96k7c4$a33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 982398188 23452 166.84.0.227 (17 Feb 2001 08:23:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Feb 2001 08:23:08 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!panix!news.panix.com!panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75774 >They were! Conner was notorius for "stiction" problems. >Conner drives have a warning label on the that state, "Conner!" I remember when 20 meg Seagate ST225 MFM drives were *THE* standard for all AT-class PCs. I waited for the 40 meg ST251. I think most of those drive died by now of stictation. Back then, Seagate drives were the lowest common demoninator: stepper motor instead of linear, never the fastest. But by buying CDC and others, Seagate's erased their bad history and is considered a top mfgr. I've not handled many Conner drives personally, but Western Digital is on my hit list for bad stuff. A previous employer had a closet full of Western Digitals that failed, and others they refused to deploy in the field due to had experiences. I sent several dozen back under warranty and we were royally pissed that we got REFURBISHED drives in exchange (useless to us since we only sold new equipment to customers, never refurbs). JTS drives - what a disaster! Egghead loved selling them back when they had real stores. Mine had some firmware failure: it merely ceased to exist on the ATAPI bus. I insisted on getting the software to reinitialize it. Well, it happened again and I can't find the floppy. JTS is out of business and Egghead support can't help. -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: eben@pc.tampabay.rr.com (Hactar) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Lines: 10 Message-ID: <96n8g9$r3a$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> References: <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> x-no-archive: yes X-No-ahbou: yes X-GetARealNewsreader: , David Given wrote: >I recently bought a Fujitsu 20MB drive. Recently? Is that a 20GB drive, or a 15-year-old drive? -- -eben eben@gate.net http://home.tampabay.rr.com/hactar/ Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H.L. Mencken ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 22:46:33 -0600 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <96iupl$vuj$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <96k7c4$a33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <96lcdb$80p$1@panix2.panix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbDauQ+J4xz5WnYRyBEpfBIP5bq04A0+Qn/FgAOogi24RnoWQdFAEW3 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Feb 2001 04:42:53 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75807 On 17 Feb 2001 03:23:07 -0500, jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) wrote: >>They were! Conner was notorius for "stiction" problems. >>Conner drives have a warning label on the that state, "Conner!" > >I remember when 20 meg Seagate ST225 MFM drives were *THE* standard >for all AT-class PCs. I waited for the 40 meg ST251. >I think most of those drive died by now of stictation. I still have several ST225's, that worked OK the last time I tried them, only a few years ago. IMHO, the ST251 was a loser. You needed a ST251-1. The only other, IMO, Seagate drive of that era was pretty good was the ST-296N, an 80meg SCSI. I still have 3 or 4 of these that so far as I know, still work. -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <96iupl$vuj$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> From: jata@aepiax.net (Julian Thomas) Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Message-ID: <3a90778e$5$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> X-Newsreader: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v2.21/21 Lines: 25 Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 01:32:04 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.224.125.73 X-Complaints-To: abuse@epix.net X-Trace: news1.epix.net 982546324 199.224.125.73 (Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:32:04 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:32:04 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!news2.epix.net!news1.epix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75864 In <96iupl$vuj$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>, on 02/16/01 at 10:20 AM, "Paul Grayson" said: >I alsways remember later model Conner drives for being extreemly noisy, >making constant clicking sounds when accessing the drive. They always >sounded as if they were failing. I had an early Seagate 20mb drive that wouldn't spin up. Had to nudge the spindle on the bottom and break the stiction or whatever - it proceeded to spin up and work OK. Got a lot of guff from coworkers about needing a rope starter on my PC. -- Julian Thomas: jt . epix @ net http://home.epix.net/~jt remove letter a for email (or switch . and @) In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State! Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc http://www.possi.org -- -- Two wrongs are only the beginning. ###### From: dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:10:36 +0000 Organization: I do not speak for anyone but myself, and barely that. Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 References: <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <96n8g9$r3a$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!sn-uk-xit-01!sn-uk-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.co.uk!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75898 In article <96n8g9$r3a$1@pc.tampabay.rr.com>, eben@pc.tampabay.rr.com (Hactar) writes: > In article , David Given wrote: >>I recently bought a Fujitsu 20MB drive. > > Recently? Is that a 20GB drive, or a 15-year-old drive? *cough* *looks embarrassed* 20GB, of course. It currently has a rather easy time of it because it's in my house server, which is a 486. The decrepit IDE chipset can only manage ~2MB/s. Bit of a waste of a modern drive, really, but all it's doing is dumping data down the network and routing packets over the modem. -- +- David Given ---------------McQ-+ "The cup of Ireland's misfortunes has been | Work: dg@tao-group.com | overflowing for centuries, and it is not | Play: dgiven@iname.com | full yet." --- Sir Boyle Roche +- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+ ###### From: dfox@shell.tsoft.com (David E. Fox) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:59:35 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <90485F9B9jmccflas@151.164.30.57> User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.7 (UNIX) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 29 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!dfox Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75891 On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:24:45 GMT, JM Carmack wrote: >the bootstrap to map to the BIOS normally. Personally I've had two Maxtor >1.6Gb drives that failed. The warranty replacements from Maxtor also >failed. At that point I swore them off. All drives lost data on the order Maybe that's the problem I've had with this one Maxtor 1.6G drive I got back in 1996. For some time now, it's had a very strange error which is probably a bad sector, or a group of bad sectors, and reading these causes the bus to lock up - and the drive light to stay on - until I hit the reset button. Writing, on the other hand, works - even if the 'bad' data blocks are written to (more or less verified by copying certain library files and then experiencing the lock up when trying to read them). It makes backups difficult of course when the system locks up in the middle of the backup. The drive is still in use, although it is not used for critical data (I've since gotten an IBM Deskstar 30gig drive). Right now I've got a small news spool on it. My other Maxtor (taken out of the system six months ago) was a 325 meg IDE which I got in September 1993. When I took it out, it was 100% functional, with zero bad sectors. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David E. Fox Thanks for letting me dfox@tsoft.com change magnetic patterns dfox@m206-157.dsl.tsoft.com on your hard disk. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ###### From: dfox@shell.tsoft.com (David E. Fox) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 22:08:43 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <96iupl$vuj$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <96k7c4$a33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <96lcdb$80p$1@panix2.panix.com> User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.7 (UNIX) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!dfox Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75892 On 17 Feb 2001 03:23:07 -0500, Jeff Jonas wrote: >I remember when 20 meg Seagate ST225 MFM drives were *THE* standard >for all AT-class PCs. I waited for the 40 meg ST251. >I think most of those drive died by now of stictation. My first HD was an ST-225. It lasted about 13 months with the cover *ON* :). Hard drives have (for the most part - certainly by my experience) really gotten a lot better in terms of reliability over the years. After a nega- tive experience with the aforementioned ST-225 and a later Seagate 125 meg drive (can't remember the model number, but it was the HD in my 386SX packard bell from 1991) that lasted for a fairly short time (less than two years ISTR) I decided to ditch Seagate and go with Maxtor. At present, I'd probably go with Seagates again but will probably not have to. Speaking of early HD life, does anyone remember a quote from Paul Mace (he was a DOS utilities vendor/programmer a la Peter Norton) circa 1986 when he said the average life of an HD was twelve to eighteen months (I think that was it)? >Jeffrey Jonas >jeffj@panix(dot)com >The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David E. Fox Thanks for letting me dfox@tsoft.com change magnetic patterns dfox@m206-157.dsl.tsoft.com on your hard disk. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ###### Message-ID: <3A923AE4.E6D6228C@fcs.eu.com> From: B W Spoor X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <96iupl$vuj$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <96k7c4$a33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <96lcdb$80p$1@panix2.panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Ye 'Ol Disorganized NNTPCache groupie Cache-Post-Path: ananke.eclipse.net.uk!unknown@212.104.146.11 X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 29 Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:25:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.104.129.36 X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@kpnqwest.net X-Trace: nreader1.kpnqwest.net 982661127 212.104.129.36 (Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:25:27 MET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:25:27 MET Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!134.222.94.5!npeer.kpnqwest.net!nreader1.kpnqwest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75810 David E. Fox wrote: > > On 17 Feb 2001 03:23:07 -0500, Jeff Jonas wrote: > > >I remember when 20 meg Seagate ST225 MFM drives were *THE* standard > >for all AT-class PCs. I waited for the 40 meg ST251. > >I think most of those drive died by now of stictation. > > My first HD was an ST-225. It lasted about 13 months with the cover *ON* :). > > I think that I've still got a working one in a Wyse PC+ (IBM XT clone, but a much neater machine). I sold the machine to a client some fifteen years ago with a 20Mb HDD, and I always used Seagate then and most of my drives still are Seagate. I recovered the machinme from them a couple of years ago, when they asked me to go through their scrap-heap of old systems and ditch what wasn't of any use to them. When I got it back to the office, it fired up first time. ----------------------------------------------------------- Brian W Spoor MBCS Chartered Information Systems Practitioner Friday Computer Services Phone: +44-(0)1803 852625 bwspoor@fcs.eu.com Fax: +44-(0)1803 854926 ----------------------------------------------------------- ###### Message-ID: <3A928F5E.4D38@virgin.net> From: Alec X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <96iupl$vuj$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3a90778e$5$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 07:38:06 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.168.238.154 X-Complaints-To: abuse@virgin.net X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 982654930 194.168.238.154 (Tue, 20 Feb 2001 07:42:10 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 07:42:10 GMT Organization: Virgin Net Usenet Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!grolier!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75910 Julian Thomas wrote: > > In <96iupl$vuj$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>, on 02/16/01 > at 10:20 AM, "Paul Grayson" said: > > >I alsways remember later model Conner drives for being extreemly noisy, > >making constant clicking sounds when accessing the drive. They always > >sounded as if they were failing. > > I had an early Seagate 20mb drive that wouldn't spin up. Had to nudge the > spindle on the bottom and break the stiction or whatever - it proceeded to > spin up and work OK. > Had an external 20Mb Seagate (Still have for that matter). Always started but took for ever, you could hear the rpm slowly winding up. On powerdown it took equally long to stop. Must have been the flywheel effect of those 5.25 platters. Alec. ###### From: Ian Stirling Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Topless hard drive runs 8 weeks! Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:38:42 GMT Message-ID: <982867122.18646.0.nnrp-07.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> References: <6uvgqgoq63.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <96740d$sa2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <96bq3m$5e9@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <90485F9B9jmccflas@151.164.30.57> NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 982867122 nnrp-07:18646 NO-IDENT mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: tin/1.5.6-20000803 ("Dust") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.0-test7 (i686)) Originator: root@mauve.demon.co.uk Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mauve.demon.co.uk!root Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:76038 David E. Fox wrote: >On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:24:45 GMT, JM Carmack wrote: >>the bootstrap to map to the BIOS normally. Personally I've had two Maxtor >>1.6Gb drives that failed. The warranty replacements from Maxtor also >>failed. At that point I swore them off. All drives lost data on the order >Maybe that's the problem I've had with this one Maxtor 1.6G drive I got >back in 1996. For some time now, it's had a very strange error which >is probably a bad sector, or a group of bad sectors, and reading these >causes the bus to lock up - and the drive light to stay on - until I hit >the reset button. Writing, on the other hand, works - even if the 'bad' Seen that too. One way to get the data off is simply to pull the power when it locks up, and then reapply it. The OS retries until it comes alive again. -- http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling. ---------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------- Windows 2000, software for next millenia. - Ian Stirling.