From: Raffiel@webtv.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: HELP Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 06:57:15 -0500 (EST) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 39 Message-ID: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=WebTV-Mail-21183-17 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhQ9cVOqQQklv9NTNJZF3MZiVPxFSwIVALrBgAn28AL9G5Qi1uowCx44l1US Content-Disposition: Inline X-WebTV-Stationery: Standard; BGColor=blaCK; TextColor=white Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!sjc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73143 --WebTV-Mail-21183-17 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Hello- I am looking at getting a computer system. I have looked at several. Many people are referring me to GATEWAY, though I seem to like the OPTIONS and PRICE that I find in the COMPAQ. One lady tells me that several of her online friends who have COMPAQ have incidents where their systems have crashed. The salesman tells me that if I buy plenty of MEMORY, that this will not happen as many do not consider this when buying and when software runs, it uses up the memory and locks up when it can't go any further and therefore has to be rebooted. When looking at the GATEWAY, it seems that their packages when trying to be paralleled with the same type of system, cannot be equally matched. It has to be a little less or a little more and then even the one a little less costs a little more. This will be worth it if it saves me headaches and problems in the future. I need some help from people who will know though versus the people trying to make sales. Please - GIVE ME SOME INPUT FOLKS, BEFORE I BUY PROBLEMS! Please email me personally as I am busy in school and may not quite find this particular newsgroup again as I just wondered in hing to find out some information. THANKS!!!! RAFF --WebTV-Mail-21183-17 Content-Description: signature Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/HTML; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit --WebTV-Mail-21183-17-- ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: 16 Jan 2001 22:01:44 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 78 Message-ID: <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 979678904 2294 10.0.3.2 (16 Jan 2001 21:01:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Jan 2001 21:01:44 GMT Cc: Raffiel@webtv.net X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73390 Raffiel@webtv.net writes: > X-WebTV-Stationery: Standard; BGColor=blaCK; TextColor=white Someone who prefers an white-on-black screen. Makes you sympathic. If you had green-on-black it would be even better. Hint: this is an old computers group. Stuff older than 10 years, preferably over 20 years. > I am looking at getting a computer system. I have looked at > several. Many people are referring me to GATEWAY, Because they tend to work (At least as far as the words "work" and "PC" can be used in the same sentance). > though I seem to like > the OPTIONS and PRICE that I find in the COMPAQ. One lady tells me that > several of her online friends who have COMPAQ have incidents where their > systems have crashed. And who to trust more then a friend? Multiple friends! Compaq has duly earned its bad reputation. > The salesman tells me that if I buy plenty of MEMORY, = he will get more commission. > that this will not happen as many do not consider this when > buying and when software runs, it uses up the memory and locks up when > it can't go any further and therefore has to be rebooted. Even the shittiest computers have solved that problem latest 10 years ago. Good ones solved it 30 or 40 years ago. > matched. It has to be a little less or a little more and then even the > one a little less costs a little more. This will be worth it if it saves > me headaches and problems in the future. That is what you pay for. > I need some help from people > who will know though versus the people trying to make sales. Please - > GIVE ME SOME INPUT FOLKS, BEFORE I BUY PROBLEMS! My personal method of buying computers: Buy the computer as an set of individual parts from the after-sales expansion/upgrade market. Vendors who want you to replace parts you already have tend to work harder. And you save the Microsoft tax. My last "complete PC" buy was in 1988, an 12MHz 286! Also here, don't buy the cheapest parts. The slightly more expensive one are usually worth their cost. Of course you then need to select all parts individually and put them together. Best way to learn that is to read magazines that address people upgrading, and to get in with other PC builders. And you get no guarantie that they will work together. But you can exchange non-fitting parts, if you _arranged_this_ with the dealer _before_ buying. Or swap them with other PC builders if you forgot to do so. You do get the satisfaction of doing a good job thrown in for free. And you learn a lot about how computers work. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng FH/BSc, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: dowe@krikkit.localdomain (Dowe Keller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.234.196.155 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.234.196.155 Date: 16 Jan 2001 21:57:44 -0800 X-Trace: 16 Jan 2001 21:57:44 -0800, 209.234.196.155 Organization: news.sierratel.com Lines: 60 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!news.sierratel.com!dowe Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73503 Raffiel@webtv.net wrote: > >Hello- > I am looking at getting a computer system. I have looked at >several. Many people are referring me to GATEWAY, though I seem to like >the OPTIONS and PRICE that I find in the COMPAQ. One lady tells me that >several of her online friends who have COMPAQ have incidents where their I've had good experiences with the following personal computers: Sinclair ZX81 (in the U.S. its called a Timex/Sinclair 1000), Commodore Vic 20 Commodore 64 I have also heard good things about these fine computers. Apple ][ (A bit on the expensive side, but nice boxes nonetheless). TRS-80 Color computer (Don't really know much about this one, but I had fun playing with it at Radio Shack). >systems have crashed. The salesman tells me that if I buy plenty of >MEMORY, that this will not happen as many do not consider this when >buying and when software runs, it uses up the memory and locks up when >it can't go any further and therefore has to be rebooted. RAM is important, I wouldn't even consider buying a machine with less that 16K if you cant get memory cartrages for it. As for software causing your computer to lock up, I don't know what you can do about that unless its in BASIC. A few tips, always make sure cartrages are seated firmly in the slot, and keep diskettes and cassete tapes away from magnets. > When looking at the GATEWAY, it seems that their packages when >trying to be paralleled with the same type of system, cannot be equally >matched. It has to be a little less or a little more and then even the >one a little less costs a little more. This will be worth it if it saves >me headaches and problems in the future. I need some help from people >who will know though versus the people trying to make sales. Please - >GIVE ME SOME INPUT FOLKS, BEFORE I BUY PROBLEMS! Some things to watch out for: Don't buy a disk drive unless you really need to access a lot of data, they are fast, but they cost alot. Most people are better off to stick to cassettes. If your going to be doing a lot of typing at your computer (data entry, and word processing) get a machine with a real keyboard. If your going to be using your micro for buisness purposes, you should look for a machine that can display 40 or 80 collumns across the screen. -- dowe@sierratel.com http://www.sierratel.com/dowe --- There is a limit to how stupid people really are -- just as there's a limit to the amount of hydrogen in the Universe. There's a lot, but there's a limit. --- David C. Barber ###### From: "Paul Grayson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:56:31 -0000 Organization: Customer of Energis Squared Lines: 18 Message-ID: <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: host94.bjss.co.uk X-Trace: newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net 979732547 17382 194.152.80.94 (17 Jan 2001 11:55:47 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jan 2001 11:55:47 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73496 "Neil Franklin" wrote in message news:6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch... > Raffiel@webtv.net writes: > > > X-WebTV-Stationery: Standard; BGColor=blaCK; TextColor=white > > Someone who prefers an white-on-black screen. Makes you sympathic. > If you had green-on-black it would be even better. > > Hint: this is an old computers group. Stuff older than 10 years, > preferably over 20 years. > Surely you mean orange-on-black? ###### Message-ID: <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 29 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:37:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.123.203 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 979756646 168.191.123.203 (Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:37:26 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:37:26 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!feeder.qis.net!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73431 Paul Grayson wrote: > > Someone who prefers an white-on-black screen. Makes you sympathic. > > If you had green-on-black it would be even better. > > > > Hint: this is an old computers group. Stuff older than 10 years, > > preferably over 20 years. I draw the line at the IBM PC introduction. If not there, a little earlier when "switch-and-light" front panels disappeared, around 1980. > > > > > Surely you mean orange-on-black? Actually black-on-orange :-) Always preferred that. Never liked the green ones, would have taken a B&W over G&W any day. And I preferred both "reverse video" as well. Chris AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: 17 Jan 01 13:53:37 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 24 Message-ID: <723.417T1850T8335507@sky.bus.com> References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-735.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73547 In article <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> mu0yc3@hotmail.com (Paul Grayson) writes: >"Neil Franklin" wrote in message >news:6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch... > >> Raffiel@webtv.net writes: >> >> > X-WebTV-Stationery: Standard; BGColor=blaCK; TextColor=white >> >> Someone who prefers an white-on-black screen. Makes you sympathic. >> If you had green-on-black it would be even better. >> >> Hint: this is an old computers group. Stuff older than 10 years, >> preferably over 20 years. > >Surely you mean orange-on-black? Only if you want one of those newfangled "ergonomic" screens. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: 18 Jan 01 10:21:32 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: <948.418T1624T6215157@sky.bus.com> References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-904.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!24.0.0.38!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73550 In article <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> mu0yc3@hotmail.com (Paul Grayson) writes: >One problem I have with having to use Windows is the excessive use of >black-on-white text. It is very difficult to read for long periods. >Light coloured text on a predominantly black background is a lot >easier. Windows does have some accessibility options where text can >be reveresed but very few apps truely support it. Do you presume to criticize the great Bill? He has decreed that black text on a blazing white background is easier to read, and if you're having problems you'd better just get over it. Hmph. You should be grateful for the opportunity to get a free tan. Seriously, I've found that changing the background colour from white to light green has made such text much easier to read, and Windoze didn't put up too much of a fight. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: "Paul Grayson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:17:59 -0000 Organization: Customer of Energis Squared Lines: 20 Message-ID: <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host94.bjss.co.uk X-Trace: newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net 979809430 11172 194.152.80.94 (18 Jan 2001 09:17:10 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Jan 2001 09:17:10 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!btnet-peer!btnet!news-hub.cableinet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73508 > > Surely you mean orange-on-black? > > Actually black-on-orange :-) Always preferred that. Never liked the > green ones, would have taken a B&W over G&W any day. And I > preferred both "reverse video" as well. > Tried reverse video on some Ampex orange screen terminals once. Horrible, just horrible. One problem I have with having to use Windows is the excessive use of black-on-white text. It is very difficult to read for long periods. Light coloured text on a predominantly black background is a lot easier. Windows does have some accessibility options where text can be reveresed but very few apps truely support it. At home I use console apps under Linux for mail and news, all white or yellow on black. A lot easier on the eyes. ###### Message-ID: <3A672A90.27569FAB@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 43 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:46:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.124.104 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 979839985 168.191.124.104 (Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:46:25 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:46:25 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!209.249.123.233.MISMATCH!xfer10.netnews.com!netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73568 Paul Grayson wrote: > > > Surely you mean orange-on-black? > > > > Actually black-on-orange :-) Always preferred that. Never liked the > > green ones, would have taken a B&W over G&W any day. And I > > preferred both "reverse video" as well. > > > > Tried reverse video on some Ampex orange screen terminals once. Horrible, > just horrible. The one's I used were Wyse VT emulations. I had a choice of either green or orange. For white I had real VT220's or 100's. I think I had some other brand of orange units but I cannot recall whether they were DEC or some other vendor. > One problem I have with having to use Windows is the excessive use of > black-on-white text. It is very difficult to read for long periods. Light > coloured text on a predominantly black background is a lot easier. Windows > does have some accessibility options where text can be reveresed but very > few apps truely support it. I didn't find that (different strokes....) I preferred the reverse video, although I had trouble with the green and preferred the orange over the white. > At home I use console apps under Linux for mail and news, all white or > yellow on black. A lot easier on the eyes. My use was at an employer a long time ago. The only non-PC video terminals I have at home (where I now work) are a small collection of Hazeltine 1420's, a strange beast at best but I used them with my old "8-bit" 68XX stuff. They're all B&W. Chris AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:32:41 -0600 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <3A672A90.27569FAB@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVY3YSzLY2DvAQsR4h6rebEmVv27lZro0GUWKhGI08ePd3Dm519MY8vI X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Jan 2001 00:23:48 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!merapi!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gblx.net!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.44!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73712 On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:46:25 GMT, jchausler wrote: >My use was at an employer a long time ago. The only non-PC video >terminals I have at home (where I now work) are a small collection >of Hazeltine 1420's, a strange beast at best but I used them with my >old "8-bit" 68XX stuff. They're all B&W. If you want strange, try a Hazeltine 2000: 27 lines x 72 chars or some such. Came out in about 1972. I still have 2, a -B and a -C, but I don't think that either work. -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: "Paul Grayson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:59:16 -0000 Organization: Customer of Energis Squared Lines: 24 Message-ID: <948vjc$giv$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <948.418T1624T6215157@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host94.bjss.co.uk X-Trace: newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net 979894700 16991 194.152.80.94 (19 Jan 2001 08:58:20 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Jan 2001 08:58:20 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news1.ebone.net!news.ebone.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73517 > In article <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> > mu0yc3@hotmail.com (Paul Grayson) writes: > > >One problem I have with having to use Windows is the excessive use of > >black-on-white text. It is very difficult to read for long periods. > >Light coloured text on a predominantly black background is a lot > >easier. Windows does have some accessibility options where text can > >be reveresed but very few apps truely support it. > > Do you presume to criticize the great Bill? He has decreed that > black text on a blazing white background is easier to read, and > if you're having problems you'd better just get over it. Hmph. > You should be grateful for the opportunity to get a free tan. > > Seriously, I've found that changing the background colour from > white to light green has made such text much easier to read, > and Windoze didn't put up too much of a fight. > Even so quite a few applications ignore these settings, or introduce their own colour schemes, at least the apps I am forced to use at work. At the moment i often have to highlight the text to be able to read it. ###### From: "Mike" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Subject: Re: HELP Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <8MV96.9211$Mo6.84683@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:44:04 EST Organization: WebUseNet Corp http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:43:35 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!merapi!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone-pass-sjo.usenetserver.com!e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73698 > TRS-80 Color computer (Don't really know much about this one, but I had > fun playing with it at Radio Shack). I've discovered that some TRS-80 computers do not have good shielding and put out significant RFI. Other family members have screamed and threatened to go downstairs and pull out the fuse to my room if I continue using it while they are watching television. I would also be careful about doing too much programming with TRS-DOS. There are rumors that Radio Shack might not support it much longer. The cassette tape interface doesn't seem to work very well, either. Every time I try to load a program, I get checksum errors. Maybe I should buy genuine Radio Shack cassettes instead of those cheap Certron ones I've been using. Lastly, if you go to Radio Shack, don't expect too much help from the salespeople. I'm beginning to think they really don't know too much about the computers they sell. The guy I talked to seemed more interested in selling me a CB radio. He did give me a catalog and neat card for free batteries, though. Mike ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: 19 Jan 2001 22:52:24 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 21 Message-ID: <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <3A672A90.27569FAB@earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 979941144 800 10.0.3.2 (19 Jan 2001 21:52:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Jan 2001 21:52:24 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73732 Arargh! writes: > On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:46:25 GMT, jchausler > wrote: > > >of Hazeltine 1420's, a strange beast at best but I used them with my > >old "8-bit" 68XX stuff. They're all B&W. > If you want strange, try a Hazeltine 2000: 27 lines x 72 chars or some > such. Came out in about 1972. I still have 2, a -B and a -C, but I > don't think that either work. DECs VT05 was 20 lines x 72 char. Just as strange a resolution. Is in the Small Computer Handbook 1973, so same time frame. I also have an strange beast: an VT100 with green screen. Due to an 640x480 bit graphics upgrade called Retrographics. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng FH/BSc, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: Sat, 20 Jan 01 11:41:11 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <94c1o1$n5h$2@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <3A672A90.27569FAB@earthlink.net> <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVY3zgLZvJJ0ghBrlZDtX+zBR9L5fEREAAPMpvvwncI3vXxYUNDQyIKG X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Jan 2001 12:53:21 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-150 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73751 In article , Arargh! wrote: >On 19 Jan 2001 22:52:24 +0100, Neil Franklin >wrote: > >>DECs VT05 was 20 lines x 72 char. Just as strange a resolution. >>Is in the Small Computer Handbook 1973, so same time frame. >> >>I also have an strange beast: an VT100 with green screen. Due to an >>640x480 bit graphics upgrade called Retrographics. > >I kinda think that the 72 col bit was a holdover from the TTY. These >were "glass TTY's" of a sort. But, guys, cards were 80 columns across. I don't believe this 72 is correct. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: Sat, 20 Jan 01 11:40:10 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 31 Message-ID: <94c1m5$n5h$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <3A672A90.27569FAB@earthlink.net> <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVadrkCZT++MBmecqQ9MkoGskFPPTYCddRql3rwoD8zvcURNY5Cvl2+r X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Jan 2001 12:52:21 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-150 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73752 In article <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: >Arargh! writes: > >> On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:46:25 GMT, jchausler >> wrote: >> >> >of Hazeltine 1420's, a strange beast at best but I used them with my >> >old "8-bit" 68XX stuff. They're all B&W. >> If you want strange, try a Hazeltine 2000: 27 lines x 72 chars or some >> such. Came out in about 1972. I still have 2, a -B and a -C, but I >> don't think that either work. > >DECs VT05 was 20 lines x 72 char. I don't remember 72 char. width. Are you sure? > Just as strange a resolution. >Is in the Small Computer Handbook 1973, so same time frame. > >I also have an strange beast: an VT100 with green screen. Due to an >640x480 bit graphics upgrade called Retrographics. I would have given my eye tooth for that. I hated that white on blue screen, especially after we had VT06s for our consoles. The green seemed to counteract all of that flickering from the screen and the overhead flourescent lights. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:29:22 -0600 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <3A672A90.27569FAB@earthlink.net> <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZh9MprsPOVUy+vDDAqgwlD++/mDIMh71HnLt6XYKha03sPmjv5xZCi X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Jan 2001 02:18:20 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73733 On 19 Jan 2001 22:52:24 +0100, Neil Franklin wrote: >DECs VT05 was 20 lines x 72 char. Just as strange a resolution. >Is in the Small Computer Handbook 1973, so same time frame. > >I also have an strange beast: an VT100 with green screen. Due to an >640x480 bit graphics upgrade called Retrographics. I kinda think that the 72 col bit was a holdover from the TTY. These were "glass TTY's" of a sort. -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: 20 Jan 2001 15:37:32 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 46 Message-ID: <6usnme2ssz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwnfs f@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E5065 14FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <3A672A90 27569FAB@earthlink.net> <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <94c1m5$n5h$1@bob.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 980001452 545 10.0.3.2 (20 Jan 2001 14:37:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Jan 2001 14:37:32 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73789 jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > In article <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, > Neil Franklin wrote: > > > >DECs VT05 was 20 lines x 72 char. > > I don't remember 72 char. width. Are you sure? from: title page: pdp8/e pdp8/m & pdp8/f small computer handbook back of book: digital small computer handbook 1973 page: 6-20 VT05 ALPHANUMERIC DISPLAY TERMINAL ... Specification DISPLAY Screen Size -- 10 1/8" x 7 5/8" Character Display Area -- 8 3/4" x 6 5/8" Characters/Line -- 72 Number of Lines -- 20 Number of Characters Displayable -- 1440 ... Character Generation Method -- 5 x 7 dot matrix ... Memory Size: ROM -- 2240 bits Refresh Buffer -- 9816 bits ... Character Set -- Upper case ASCII ... > >I also have an strange beast: an VT100 with green screen. Due to an > >640x480 bit graphics upgrade called Retrographics. > > I would have given my eye tooth for that. I hated that > white on blue screen, especially after we had VT06s for VT06? Never heard of them. What abilities did they have? -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng FH/BSc, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP From: triso@remove-me.netrover.com (Tris Orendorff) References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <8MV96.9211$Mo6.84683@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com> Organization: Torensoft Consulting Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/M3 Lines: 25 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:39:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.10.161.123 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 980001567 64.10.161.123 (Sat, 20 Jan 2001 09:39:27 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 09:39:27 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73809 javnews@earthlink.net (John Varela) wrote in : >On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:43:35, "Mike" >wrote: > >> I would also be careful about doing too much programming with TRS-DOS. > >I really like MultiDOS better than TRSDOS. It has some neat features. >I wouldn't worry about the TRS-80 becoming obsolete; Tandy is a big >company that can compete against Apple and NorthStar. There is a >Visicalc version for TRS-80, and there's a really good word processor >for it called Zorlof the Magnificent. And no one needs more that 64x40 >characters on the screen anyway. Boy! Does that ever sound weird when written in the present tense. -- ----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK ----- Version: 3.12 GCS d++ s a C+ UC++++ P+ L E- W+ N++ o- K++ w+ O+ M !V PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ !5 X- R- tv--- b++ DI++ D+ G+ e+ h---- r+++ y+ ------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <3A672A90.27569FAB@earthlink.net> <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <94c1o1$n5h$2@bob.news.rcn.net> From: jata@aepiax.net (Julian Thomas) Subject: Re: HELP Message-ID: <3a69b1d5$1$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> X-Newsreader: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v2.21/21 Lines: 23 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:42:16 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.224.125.104 X-Complaints-To: abuse@epix.net X-Trace: news1.epix.net 980005336 199.224.125.104 (Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:42:16 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:42:16 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news2.epix.net!news1.epix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73801 In <94c1o1$n5h$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, on 01/20/01 at 11:41 AM, jmfbahciv@aol.com said: >But, guys, cards were 80 columns across. I don't believe this 72 is >correct. Without getting into the width of any particular terminal, I will just comment that while cards were indeed 80 col, the 704/9/90/9x family used 36 bit words, and was able to read only 72 columns (via the online reader), so the last 8 columns were not read by many programs (unused in Fortran, for example). -- Julian Thomas: jt . epix @ net http://home.epix.net/~jt remove letter a for email (or switch . and @) In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State! Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc http://www.possi.org -- -- Windws is ine for bckgroun comunicaions ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: Sun, 21 Jan 01 10:05:39 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <94eghf$gct$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <94c1o1$n5h$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3a69b1d5$1$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYgTCGyII+LVxbjIKAW37j8wQO4YZgMCpi5/YM8Mm37MM5K5BFhFvc9 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jan 2001 11:18:07 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!xfer10.netnews.com!netnews.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-104 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73832 In article <3a69b1d5$1$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net>, jata@aepiax.net (Julian Thomas) wrote: >In <94c1o1$n5h$2@bob.news.rcn.net>, on 01/20/01 > at 11:41 AM, jmfbahciv@aol.com said: > >>But, guys, cards were 80 columns across. I don't believe this 72 is >>correct. > >Without getting into the width of any particular terminal, I will just >comment that while cards were indeed 80 col, the 704/9/90/9x family used >36 bit words, and was able to read only 72 columns (via the online >reader), so the last 8 columns were not read by many programs (unused in >Fortran, for example). > And I'm not talking about software; I'm talking about the hardware terminal width capability. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) Subject: Re: HELP Message-ID: Organization: NDS Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 01:55:45 -0500 References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <948.418T1624T6215157@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: max2h-187.his.com X-Trace: 21 Jan 2001 01:55:50 -0500, max2h-187.his.com Lines: 40 X-Authenticated-User: ehrice Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!209.249.123.233.MISMATCH!xfer10.netnews.com!netnews.com!news-xfer.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!news1.his.com!vienna7.his.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73862 In article <948.418T1624T6215157@sky.bus.com>, "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: > >One problem I have with having to use Windows is the excessive use of > >black-on-white text. It is very difficult to read for long periods... Mac users solve this by having better reading skills to start with. > Do you presume to criticize the great Bill? He has decreed that > black text on a blazing white background... Heh, heh -- another Mac (actually Xerox) first, cribbed by Billge. After sixteen years of liking it a lot (white on black was always eye-irritating to me), I can recommend that you shift the background white from a sturdy 96% white (or whatever it is) to more like a 90% white. Just reduce the saturation, but keep it color-balanced white. I find this quite easy to read and I spend a LOT of time on three different machines. In article , Arargh! wrote: > If you want strange, try a Hazeltine 2000: 27 lines x 72 chars or some > such. Came out in about 1972. No big mystery -- if you take the character storage required for 27x72, and divide it by the normal 80 characters per line, you get 24.3. Hazeltine was providing users with just a few more (expensive!) characters of storage, but giving them three extra /lines/ of display. At a time that most CRTs were being used for remote batch development or timesharing, one of which often stopped input at 72 chaacters and the other of which seldom required a line as long as 72 characters, this was actually a very reasonable tradeoff. The "cards" you worked with on the Haseltine couldn't be dropped, so you didn't have to worry about sequence numbers in the last eight columns, and mosty compilers would stop their scan at the 72nd character on the line anyway. Edward -- Klaatu berada nictu. Get it? ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <94c1o1$n5h$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3a69b1d5$1$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> <94eghf$gct$1@bob.news.rcn.net> From: jata@aepiax.net (Julian Thomas) Subject: Re: HELP Message-ID: <3a6b3a26$2$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> X-Newsreader: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v2.21/21 Lines: 20 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:36:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.224.125.61 X-Complaints-To: abuse@epix.net X-Trace: news1.epix.net 980105769 199.224.125.61 (Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:36:09 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:36:09 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news2.epix.net!news1.epix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73847 In <94eghf$gct$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, on 01/21/01 at 10:05 AM, jmfbahciv@aol.com said: >And I'm not talking about software; I'm talking about the >hardware terminal width capability. I wasn't talking about software either. It was the HARDWARE that was only capable of reading 72 columns from the cards. -- Julian Thomas: jt . epix @ net http://home.epix.net/~jt remove letter a for email (or switch . and @) In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State! Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc http://www.possi.org -- -- If you want it done right, forget Microsoft. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: Mon, 22 Jan 01 10:59:16 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 16 Message-ID: <94h823$a8o$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <94c1o1$n5h$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3a69b1d5$1$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> <94eghf$gct$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3a6b3a26$2$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYTbULtuotZyzVfJmyfifmhgzHMZNaE5MgHzAnh/WyvaXzBQ8x3pRok X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jan 2001 12:11:47 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-30 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73924 In article <3a6b3a26$2$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net>, jata@aepiax.net (Julian Thomas) wrote: >In <94eghf$gct$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, on 01/21/01 > at 10:05 AM, jmfbahciv@aol.com said: > >>And I'm not talking about software; I'm talking about the >>hardware terminal width capability. > >I wasn't talking about software either. It was the HARDWARE that was only >capable of reading 72 columns from the cards. > My TTY never read cards. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: Mon, 22 Jan 01 10:58:35 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 42 Message-ID: <94h80q$a8o$2@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <3A672A90.27569FAB@earthlink.net> <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <94c1o1$n5h$2@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYo+jsJf4eYE6WtXcsjsp2kY9Unk+4c6+AdW6DHm0fd4GFFTRilT9gi X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jan 2001 12:11:06 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-30 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73928 In article , Arargh! wrote: >On Sat, 20 Jan 01 11:41:11 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >>In article , >> Arargh! wrote: >>>On 19 Jan 2001 22:52:24 +0100, Neil Franklin >>>wrote: >>> >>>>DECs VT05 was 20 lines x 72 char. Just as strange a resolution. >>>>Is in the Small Computer Handbook 1973, so same time frame. >>>> >>>>I also have an strange beast: an VT100 with green screen. Due to an >>>>640x480 bit graphics upgrade called Retrographics. >>> >>>I kinda think that the 72 col bit was a holdover from the TTY. These >>>were "glass TTY's" of a sort. >> >>But, guys, cards were 80 columns across. I don't believe this >>72 is correct. >I absolutely guarantee that the Hazeltine 2000 had 27 lines and 74 >chars per line. Sigh! I'm not aruging that. You did say that you thought it was holdover from the TTYs; I don't remember TTYs having that short of a width space. > I spent 3 or 4 years writing programs for them, and >then another few years converting all those programs to 24 x 80 >screens. Don't you just hate that? Were these supposed to support screen forms? (I think that was the term that was getting used in my neck of the words.) I remember some people in my group beginning to study exactly what customers wanted vs. what they needed. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.fsnet.co.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: 21 Jan 2001 23:39:19 GMT Organization: teabag Message-ID: <94frv7$6qc$2@teabag.cbhnet> References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.cbhnet X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 980120871 nnrp-08:20631 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jan 2001 23:39:19 GMT X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.0 Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!newshub1.nl.home.com!news.nl.home.com!bullseye.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!teabag.cbhnet!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73899 In article <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net>, "Paul Grayson" writes: > Tried reverse video on some Ampex orange screen terminals once. Horrible, > just horrible. All our Ampex terminals were green-on-black, but reverse was equally horrible to your perception of the orange variety, I'd guess. Nice terminals, though; a friend still has mine in his garage, I must reclaim it one day (apparently the mini that accompanies it has "things" living in it) (Er, "mini" as in "minicomputer," not the Austin Mini, in case anybody wondered about the "garage" reference) > One problem I have with having to use Windows is the excessive use of > black-on-white text. It is very difficult to read for long periods. Light > coloured text on a predominantly black background is a lot easier. Windows > does have some accessibility options where text can be reveresed but very > few apps truely support it. I must admit I'm really not at all a big fan of this black-on-white stuff; it looks fine on paper, it looks pants on screen. > At home I use console apps under Linux for mail and news, all white or > yellow on black. A lot easier on the eyes. I nearly always use X-windows nowadays (my attempt to keep up with the times, and now X has been around for 15-ish years I think I'm happy enough using it!) but the terminal emulators are still configured as green-on- black. For added authenticity, my girlfriend pointed out that when typing stuff, there's a slight delay in it appearing on the screen (even with this fairly high spec PC) which I hadn't noticed before, but now I have I sort of feel all warm and fuzzy! Chris. ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:05:17 -0600 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <3A672A90.27569FAB@earthlink.net> <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <94c1o1$n5h$2@bob.news.rcn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbjt/NIVsuNPtvsOZs8kqQ5jNU7fB4W1Scx+eRnFaP2Qshp/ya/nbCs X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jan 2001 05:05:21 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74046 On Sat, 20 Jan 01 11:41:11 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >In article , > Arargh! wrote: >>On 19 Jan 2001 22:52:24 +0100, Neil Franklin >>wrote: >> >>>DECs VT05 was 20 lines x 72 char. Just as strange a resolution. >>>Is in the Small Computer Handbook 1973, so same time frame. >>> >>>I also have an strange beast: an VT100 with green screen. Due to an >>>640x480 bit graphics upgrade called Retrographics. >> >>I kinda think that the 72 col bit was a holdover from the TTY. These >>were "glass TTY's" of a sort. > >But, guys, cards were 80 columns across. I don't believe this >72 is correct. I absolutely guarantee that the Hazeltine 2000 had 27 lines and 74 chars per line. I spent 3 or 4 years writing programs for them, and then another few years converting all those programs to 24 x 80 screens. See scans of the 1975 revision of the 1972 manual: http://www.arargh.com/pics/cover.gif http://www.arargh.com/pics/page2223.gif (scroll over to the right) Sorry for the size of the scans, I wanted to be sure that they would be readable. -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:22:12 -0600 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <948.418T1624T6215157@sky.bus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYdgyNjNgpE7tiwmwCI1CFoRasi9ANWd88a7UvHr+01sfHZuaqPSJxn X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jan 2001 05:22:20 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.44!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74031 On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 01:55:45 -0500, ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) wrote: >In article , >Arargh! wrote: > > > If you want strange, try a Hazeltine 2000: 27 lines x 72 chars or some > > such. Came out in about 1972. > >No big mystery -- if you take the character storage required for 27x72, and >divide it by the normal 80 characters per line, you get 24.3. Hazeltine >was providing users with just a few more (expensive!) characters of >storage, but giving them three extra /lines/ of display. At a time that >most CRTs were being used for remote batch development or timesharing, one >of which often stopped input at 72 chaacters and the other of which seldom >required a line as long as 72 characters, this was actually a very >reasonable tradeoff. The "cards" you worked with on the Haseltine couldn't >be dropped, so you didn't have to worry about sequence numbers in the last >eight columns, and mosty compilers would stop their scan at the 72nd >character on the line anyway. What you say is true with reference to mainframe type operations. But, I do not think that the Hazeltine 2000 was intended for that type use. I think that they were intended for remote data entry, not remote batch operations. This idea came from my very vague memory of ads in magazines from the 70's and the vague description in the manual. As far as memory goes, the Hazeltine 2000 used 1998 chars for the display(27*74), 78 more that a 24x80(1920). In either case, memory was probably a 2k chip (2048 chars). See the scans referenced in another reply in this thread. -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com ###### Sender: prep@k9 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP References: <13801-3A64371B-2@storefull-296.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <3A672A90.27569FAB@earthlink.net> <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <94c1m5$n5h$1@bob.news.rcn.net> From: Paul Repacholi Date: 22 Jan 2001 22:32:26 +0800 Message-ID: <87hf2rejyd.fsf@prep.synonet.com> Lines: 21 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: 133.d01.pe.iqnet.net.au X-Trace: 22 Jan 2001 22:14:06 +0800, 133.d01.pe.iqnet.net.au Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.interpacket.net!feed-out.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!feed.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!news.waia.asn.au!usenet.per.paradox.net.au!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73992 jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > >I also have an strange beast: an VT100 with green screen. Due to an > >640x480 bit graphics upgrade called Retrographics. > > I would have given my eye tooth for that. I hated that > white on blue screen, especially after we had VT06s for > our consoles. The green seemed to counteract all of that > flickering from the screen and the overhead flourescent lights. No you wouldn't!! They where the green P... Oh hell, neural bitrot. The tubes where changes to a medium-long persistance phosphor. Talk about streak on scroll. Great for plotting and graphics, ugh as a terminal. -- Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. ###### From: Arargh! Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: HELP Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 20:47:36 -0600 Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 44 Message-ID: <94rp6t4j75shtv4ml336j6nmp9nf75f4s1@4ax.com> References: <6ulmsbyzwn.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <944183$gv6$1@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net> <3A65E506.514FE9F5@earthlink.net> <946cam$at4$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> <3A672A90.27569FAB@earthlink.net> <6uhf2v2orr.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <94c1o1$n5h$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <94h80q$a8o$2@bob.news.rcn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZuC1hy0F1JFXpwv3WoWcYSjZURsShWB4vG2XCp65gS2YOukXO5JNJs X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jan 2001 02:46:04 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74019 On Mon, 22 Jan 01 10:58:35 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >Sigh! I'm not aruging that. You did say that you thought >it was holdover from the TTYs; I don't remember TTYs having >that short of a width space. Somewhere, in a dim recess in the back of my mind, I thought that TTY 33's & 35's started to overprint about column 72. Or maybe that was the model 28. That is why I mentioned glass TTY's. I tried a web search for a manual, and all I got was hundreds of references to this or that PDP computer that came with an ASR-33. But no manual. I never owned a TTY, so I do not have a manual to check. Perhaps someone still has an early TTY manual, and look up the print width. >> I spent 3 or 4 years writing programs for them, and >>then another few years converting all those programs to 24 x 80 >>screens. > > Don't you just hate that? Were these supposed to >support screen forms? (I think that was the term that was >getting used in my neck of the words.) I remember some >people in my group beginning to study exactly what customers >wanted vs. what they needed. Well, the 2000 would support forms and block mode transmission, but the operating system and the processor would overrun at 9600 baud, which was the speed used.[1] So they were used in full-duplex mode with the processor echoing every char. The main reason for the change was that one could no longer get 2000's, and the available replacements had different screen sizes. Come to think of it, one shop had both sized terminals, so I had to change those programs to use 74 x 24 so they could work on either. arargh [1] DCC-116 (980 ns cycle) w/ core memory which is a NOVA ripoff, OS was IRIS 5 or 7 from Educational Data Systems, later renamed to Point 4 Corp. -- Arargh (at enteract dot com) http://www.arargh.com