From: "Don Chiasson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Oldest operating computer Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:33:22 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 12 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72327 I saw on slashdot a reference to an article in the Sydney (Australia) Morning Herald that "The last surviving, intact, first-generation computer in the world, a 50-year-old room-sized giant of steel crammed with vacuum tubes, has reached its final home [in a museum]." It weighs in at 2,000 kg, and has 2,000 *bits* of memory. Check it out at http://www.smh.com.au/news/0101/05/national/national11.html Don ###### From: chainsaw11 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 00:09:34 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: <938c3s$eqb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.62.143.29 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun Jan 07 00:09:34 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 98) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x64.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 216.62.143.29 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDchainsaw11 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72434 In article , "Don Chiasson" wrote: > I saw on slashdot a reference to an article in the Sydney > (Australia) Morning Herald that "The last surviving, intact, > first-generation computer in the world, a 50-year-old > room-sized giant of steel crammed with vacuum tubes, has > reached its final home [in a museum]." It weighs in at 2,000 > kg, and has 2,000 *bits* of memory. Check it out at > > http://www.smh.com.au/news/0101/05/national/national11.html > > Don > > Yeah I saw that too, looks like it only has 2k of ram. I think this was like the australian cousin to eniac. -- Linux is like a wigwam, no gates, no windows just an apache inside! }:-} Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ###### From: himself@esands.com (him self) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 7 Jan 2001 01:09:43 GMT Organization: Customer of Connect.com.au Pty. Ltd. Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: po.box.1@esands.com NNTP-Posting-Host: snark.esands.com X-Trace: perki.connect.com.au 978829783 3177 203.63.249.98 (7 Jan 2001 01:09:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@connect.com.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Jan 2001 01:09:43 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.7 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!nntp-relay.ihug.net!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!news.syd.connect.com.au!news.mel.connect.com.au!himself Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72474 On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:33:22 -0500, Don Chiasson wrote: > kg, and has 2,000 *bits* of memory. Check it out at > > http://www.smh.com.au/news/0101/05/national/national11.html > The good stuff is at http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/csirac/ Programming those mercury delay lines must have made programmers mad as hatters. :-) ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:10:22 -0700 Organization: Systematic Software Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: h-207-148-140-9.dial.cadvision.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.cadvision.com 979632622 11263 207.148.140.9 (16 Jan 2001 08:10:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cadvision.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:10:22 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp.cadvision.com!207.228.64.17.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73320 On 7 Jan 2001 01:09:43 GMT, himself@esands.com (him self) wrote: >On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:33:22 -0500, > Don Chiasson wrote: > >> kg, and has 2,000 *bits* of memory. Check it out at >> >> http://www.smh.com.au/news/0101/05/national/national11.html >> > >The good stuff is at http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/csirac/ > >Programming those mercury delay lines must >have made programmers mad as hatters. :-) ISTR hearing from older programmers (when I were a lad) that they had clerical staff to adjust the instructions so that the data would be accessed at the correct times. Anyone confirm/deny? Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian_Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) use address above to reply ###### From: "John Galt" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Lines: 19 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <_gY86.11541$lh.489107@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:46:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.167.220.32 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.mn.mediaone.net 979652794 24.167.220.32 (Tue, 16 Jan 2001 07:46:34 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 07:46:34 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.hrz.uni-kassel.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!cyclone.rdc-detw.rr.com!news.mw.mediaone.net!cyclone3.rdc-detw.rr.com!news3.mw.mediaone.net!typhoon.mn.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73344 > >Programming those mercury delay lines must > >have made programmers mad as hatters. :-) While attempting to answer that question I chanced upon a site which should interest a lot of people here. http://www.eff.org/pub/Misc/Publications/Bruce_Sterling/Dead_Media_Project/d ead_media.notes They list computer model vs date of introduction for a great number of computers. Just type in a computer of interest in your search engine to find the list. There is also a list of dead computer languages but this doesn't seem as comprehensive. I checked a few dates I am familiar with and the list seemed accurate. (My theory was that the programmer didn't have to fuss with the delay lines; but I wasn't able to substantiate my guess.) ###### From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:46:41 -0500 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 40 Message-ID: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYrE0R+7XRBpRSed0fNWXqmbcsq9Ts38pZas2x01qFaoxOlyd3JzP31 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jan 2001 01:46:43 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!merapi!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73458 Brian Inglis wrote: > > On 7 Jan 2001 01:09:43 GMT, himself@esands.com (him self) wrote: > > > >Programming those mercury delay lines must > >have made programmers mad as hatters. :-) > > ISTR hearing from older programmers (when I were a lad) that they > had clerical staff to adjust the instructions so that the data > would be accessed at the correct times. Anyone confirm/deny? The programming of delay-line computers is surprisingly similar to programming drum machines; an easy way to "visualise" the notion is to make note that each of "n" delay lines is recirculating bits at pretty much the exact same rate (note that some systems, e.g. the Packard Bell 250, had "short lines"). This makes each delay-line analagous to a track on a drum. As mentioned in the above paragraph, some machines had "short lines". These were typically some power-of-two shorter than the main lines such that very commonly addressed data (but less commonly than registers) could be accessed faster than those in the long lines. Optimising the programs on drum, or delay-line, computers could be done by either explicity specifying the next instruction to be fetched or implicitly specifying that "the next opcode comes from the location directly following the operand of the last instruction". The PB 250 does the latter; if I recall correctly, the IBM 650 did the former. Both work, and both can drive a programmer completely _nuts_. There was a point of diminishing return with optimisation, though, and good programmers made a point to stay _just_ shy of that point. -- +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com +---------------------+ | http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: 42:22N 71:47W | +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ ###### From: David Razler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Reply-To: david.razler@worldnet.att.net Message-ID: <5ate6tonua06icrlk8ggd3tfq4jp7lh18c@4ax.com> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 5 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:00:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.67.41 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 979858803 12.79.67.41 (Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:00:03 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:00:03 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!199.60.229.5!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73701 I don't know if it's the oldest, but MIT has TX-0 allegedly up and running - on loan from The Historic Computer whateveritisnow. dmr ###### From: Tony Lima Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Organization: Tony Lima Associates Reply-To: TonyLima2@worldnet.att.net Message-ID: References: <_gY86.11541$lh.489107@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/16.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:55:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.81.78.172 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 979869329 12.81.78.172 (Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:55:29 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:55:29 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!204.127.161.3!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.72!wnfilter2!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73686 On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:46:34 GMT, "John Galt" wrote: >> >Programming those mercury delay lines must >> >have made programmers mad as hatters. :-) > >While attempting to answer that question I chanced upon a site which should >interest a lot of people here. > >http://www.eff.org/pub/Misc/Publications/Bruce_Sterling/Dead_Media_Project/d >ead_media.notes > >They list computer model vs date of introduction for a great number of >computers. Just type in a computer of interest in your search engine to >find the list. There is also a list of dead computer languages but this >doesn't seem as comprehensive. I checked a few dates I am familiar with and >the list seemed accurate. [snip] It's rare to see a 500K file on the web that's pure text. Impressive. But omitting the Otrona Attache' is unforgivable. - Tony ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 19 Jan 2001 17:38:26 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 28 Message-ID: <949u2i$4v@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> References: <_gY86.11541$lh.489107@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: u1.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.axxsys.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u1.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73583 Tony Lima wrote: : On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:46:34 GMT, "John Galt" : wrote: : >> >Programming those mercury delay lines must : >> >have made programmers mad as hatters. :-) : > : >While attempting to answer that question I chanced upon a site which should : >interest a lot of people here. : > : >http://www.eff.org/pub/Misc/Publications/Bruce_Sterling/Dead_Media_Project/d : >ead_media.notes : > : >They list computer model vs date of introduction for a great number of : >computers. Just type in a computer of interest in your search engine to : >find the list. There is also a list of dead computer languages but this : >doesn't seem as comprehensive. I checked a few dates I am familiar with and : >the list seemed accurate. : [snip] : It's rare to see a 500K file on the web that's pure text. : Impressive. But omitting the Otrona Attache' is : unforgivable. - Tony Not a single system based upon the SS-50 bus?! No Polymorphics system either?! The list is lacking. Eric ###### Message-ID: <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:06:01 +1000 From: Ken Kirkby Reply-To: ken@terrigal.net.au Organization: K. J. Kirkby and Associates P/L X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: mopoke.terrigal.net.au X-Trace: 22 Jan 2001 10:12:22 +1100, mopoke.terrigal.net.au Lines: 55 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!194.213.69.151!news.algonet.se!algonet!news-feed1.eu.concert.net!newsfeed.zip.com.au!news.syd.ausbone.net!turakina.six.asn.au!mopoke.terrigal.net.au Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73822 Carl R. Friend wrote: > > Brian Inglis wrote: > > > > On 7 Jan 2001 01:09:43 GMT, himself@esands.com (him self) wrote: > > > > > >Programming those mercury delay lines must > > >have made programmers mad as hatters. :-) > > > > ISTR hearing from older programmers (when I were a lad) that they > > had clerical staff to adjust the instructions so that the data > > would be accessed at the correct times. Anyone confirm/deny? > > The programming of delay-line computers is surprisingly similar to > programming drum machines; an easy way to "visualise" the notion is > to make note that each of "n" delay lines is recirculating bits at > pretty much the exact same rate (note that some systems, e.g. the > Packard Bell 250, had "short lines"). This makes each delay-line > analagous to a track on a drum. > > As mentioned in the above paragraph, some machines had "short lines". > These were typically some power-of-two shorter than the main lines > such that very commonly addressed data (but less commonly than > registers) could be accessed faster than those in the long lines. > > Optimising the programs on drum, or delay-line, computers could be > done by either explicity specifying the next instruction to be fetched > or implicitly specifying that "the next opcode comes from the location > directly following the operand of the last instruction". The PB 250 > does the latter; if I recall correctly, the IBM 650 did the former. > Both work, and both can drive a programmer completely _nuts_. > > There was a point of diminishing return with optimisation, though, > and good programmers made a point to stay _just_ shy of that point. The Electricty Trust of South Australia Torrens Island A Station computer, a Bailey 665 was withdrawn a couple of years ago following installation in 1964 and continuous operation since. It now forms part of the Australian Computer Museum Collection thanks to the generosity of the power station, the efforts of John Geremin and the assistance of Bailey. The programmers there used Excel macros to optimize the drum instructions - it had no other memory. Im sure that Bill Gates did not anticipate the use of Excel as a computer optimization tool. -- Ken Kirkby PLC Peripherals * Nobbys Net + Terrigal Net http://www.plc-peripherals.com Real Time Hardware and Software - Cisco Certified Regional ISP. Servicing Regional Australia with 160 Dialup numbers Nationalwide. PO Box 815 Terrigal NSW 2260 Australia. ph +61 2 4385 2335 fx +61 2 4385 3720 ###### From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:56:35 -0500 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 38 Message-ID: <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVb99UOFdg6dTg6LCVC/m76SdSo30vcO8HCUAP+Nz2FsgCPiYVRD9W4O X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jan 2001 14:56:43 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73844 Ken Kirkby wrote: > > The Electricty Trust of South Australia Torrens Island A Station > computer, a Bailey 665 was withdrawn a couple of years ago following > installation in 1964 and continuous operation since. Now _there's_ a good run! There might be some good anecdotes on this topic; I'm surprised more people have chimed in. The longest- running machines I've dealt with came from the University of Rochester (NY, USA) who donated a LINC-8 to the RCS/RI; this machine was in operation from the day it was purchased (in 1966) and was in use until well into the late '80s. Machines were built to last (and be repaired) "back then" (I won't say "in the good old days"). Today, however, machines are typically obsolete before they get purchased and are pretty much disposable items. Have things really improved (think of the waste and the environmental issues)? > It now forms part of the Australian Computer Museum Collection thanks > to the generosity of the power station, the efforts of John Geremin > and the assistance of Bailey. Bravo! > The programmers there used Excel macros to optimize the drum > instructions - it had no other memory. Im sure that Bill Gates did > not anticipate the use of Excel as a computer optimization tool. Eek! Now there's a creative (ab)use of technology! I like it. -- +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com +---------------------+ | http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: 42:22N 71:47W | +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ ###### From: Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Lines: 39 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:13:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.4.103.5 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc2.tx.home.com 980129598 24.4.103.5 (Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:13:18 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:13:18 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc2.tx.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74016 "Carl R. Friend" wrote in message news:3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com... > Ken Kirkby wrote: > > Now _there's_ a good run! There might be some good anecdotes on > this topic; I'm surprised more people have chimed in. The longest- > running machines I've dealt with came from the University of Rochester > (NY, USA) who donated a LINC-8 to the RCS/RI; this machine was in > operation from the day it was purchased (in 1966) and was in use until > well into the late '80s. > > Machines were built to last (and be repaired) "back then" (I won't > say "in the good old days"). Today, however, machines are typically > obsolete before they get purchased and are pretty much disposable > items. Have things really improved (think of the waste and the > environmental issues)? > -- To bad no more crawling around in some computer. No more smell of burnt electronics. No glowing diodes and hot transistors, no vacuum devices Except in high fidelity Power amps , and Peavey,Marshall Stacks. No wires running everywhere. No board level repairs. Hmmmm. All of a sudden I feel like Bartleby the Scribner. Nah, there is always something to build using these things. Like an old computer. No circular CRT's on Oscilliscopes, No oscillators that you can here run because they are mechanical. All of a sudden its Accoustic Wave filters with 50Kdb/dec cutout and its MODFET 3D layered ULSI Semiconductors. Its circuits on a chip and Three Chips to the computer. No more Germanium transistors, its Gallium Arsenide with 36 V swing from P-to-P in a a single frequency{just kidding}. Ben ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:31:23 -0800 Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: haxrus.apple.com X-Trace: news.apple.com 980130683 4923 17.205.21.66 (22 Jan 2001 02:31:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.apple.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jan 2001 02:31:23 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!forum.apple.com!news.apple.com!haxrus.apple.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73975 In article <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>, wrote: > No glowing diodes and hot transistors If you have a glowing diode that isn't a hollow-state device or an LED, something is SERIOUSLY wrong. -- The eBay Curse: "May you find everything you're looking for.." ###### From: "Williams, Steve" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:22:11 +0100 Organization: Personal account Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.227.195.126 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: si05.rsvl.unisys.com 980151712 20881 129.227.195.126 (22 Jan 2001 08:21:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@rsvl.unisys.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jan 2001 08:21:52 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!grolier!newsfeed.planete.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!eanews1.unisys.com!si05!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74054 Ken Kirkby wrote: >The programmers there used Excel macros to optimize the drum >instructions - it had no other memory. Im sure that Bill Gates did >not anticipate the use of Excel as a computer optimization tool. In the early '80s I participatedn a design project for an array processor to compete with Cray (it didn't). IBM PCs were just beginning to appear as terminals into our mainframes, where we normally ran our CAD. Many of the participants on the project were young, many fresh from school, because the experienced people were working on development of standard mainframes. I was amazed to see that some of these young guys were using a spreadsheet on a PC at that time for generating timing diagrams for parts of the logic. Each row represented a net, each column a clock phase and they produced some kind of graphic in the cell to denote whether the signal was high / low / in transition. I was on the software (microcode) side, so I don't know whether that was a common practise, but it impressed me mightily. ###### From: nailed_barnacleSPAMFREE@hotmail.com (barnacle) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:49:46 GMT Organization: BT Internet Lines: 20 Message-ID: <94hv9l$bt5$1@uranium.btinternet.com> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-225-206.btinternet.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!btnet-peer1!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!egbert Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74007 In article , "Williams, Steve" wrote: . > >I was amazed to see that some of these young guys were using a >spreadsheet on a PC at that time for generating timing diagrams for >parts of the logic. Each row represented a net, each column a clock >phase and they produced some kind of graphic in the cell to denote >whether the signal was high / low / in transition. > >I was on the software (microcode) side, so I don't know whether that >was a common practise, but it impressed me mightily. I used excel on a 386 to implement possibly the world's slowest G.722 audio codec. It took about ten minutes to process each sample but it was an 'easy' way to see what was happening! -- I have a quantum car. Every time I look at the speedometer I get lost... barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk ###### From: jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 22 Jan 2001 22:55:50 GMT Organization: The University of Iowa Lines: 26 Message-ID: <94idpm$cbm$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu X-Trace: flood.weeg.uiowa.edu 980204150 12662 128.255.28.3 (22 Jan 2001 22:55:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.uiowa.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jan 2001 22:55:50 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed.frii.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.uiowa.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73994 From article , by javnews@earthlink.net (John Varela): > On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:31:23, aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote: > >> If you have a glowing diode that isn't a hollow-state device or >> an LED, something is SERIOUSLY wrong. > > Not if what's glowing is the cathode heater. Never seen a cathode heater on a solid state device. You must be referring to a hollow state device, also known as a firebottle, particularly if the hollow device is filled with mercury vapor. We need some way to translate terms for those technologies. I recently saw an article in the NY Times about Magnetic RAM, a new technnology being developed by IBM, in which a thin layer of feromagnetic material was spread between two conductive layers on the surface of a chip. There was all this ballyhoo about "spin electronics", but it sounded an awful lot like a VLSI approach to making something that was no more nor less than core. The article managed never to mention that Magnetic RAM had once been the dominant memory technology. Of course, Williams Tubes were the DRAM technology of the late 1940's. We ought to call them Vacuum DRAM, and, of course, a VFET is a FET implemented using a vacuum. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu ###### From: Adam Sampson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 22 Jan 2001 22:57:37 +0000 Organization: The Campaign For The Writing Of "a lot" As Two Words Lines: 13 Sender: azz@cartman.azz.net Message-ID: <87wvbntcta.fsf@cartman.azz.net> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: stue407.ukc.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: athena.ukc.ac.uk 980204436 20820 129.12.228.7 (22 Jan 2001 23:00:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@ukc.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:00:36 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) XEmacs/21.1 (Carlsbad Caverns) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet-peer!btnet!news2.vas-net.net!server2.netnews.ja.net!athena.ukc.ac.uk!cartman.us-lot.org!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73987 javnews@earthlink.net (John Varela) writes: > > If you have a glowing diode that isn't a hollow-state device or > > an LED, something is SERIOUSLY wrong. > > Not if what's glowing is the cathode heater. If it's got a cathode heater, then it's a hollow-state device. -- Adam Sampson azz@gnu.org ###### From: Juergen Nickelsen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 23 Jan 2001 02:49:30 +0100 Organization: private site in Berlin, Germany, 52.4795N 13.4404E Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: n31-28.berlin.snafu.de X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 21.1 - "Channel Islands" Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lmu.de!lrz.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!195.21.255.252!unlisys!news.snafu.de!goting.kms.jnickelsen.de!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74044 writes: > No glowing diodes and hot transistors, no vacuum devices Except in > high fidelity Power amps , and Peavey,Marshall Stacks. If you're talking about guitar amps, I had an "Acoustic" amp in the 80s which was tube-only. Great and flexible sound, similar to Marshall and Fender, but more versatile. Not quite like a Mesa Boogie, though. :-) -- Juergen Nickelsen ###### Message-ID: <3A6D02F8.CFE745C5@ev1.net> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 20:05:11 -0800 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer References: <94idpm$cbm$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: taydal-207-55-153-147.ev1.net X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 980215756 taydal-207-55-153-147.ev1.net (22 Jan 2001 20:09:16 -0600) Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!news.csl-gmbh.net!blackbush.xlink.net!newsfeed.germany.net!news.tele.dk!205.231.236.10!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.twtelecom.net!207.218.245.171.MISMATCH!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74047 "Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879" wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > Of course, Williams Tubes were the DRAM technology of the late 1940's. > We ought to call them Vacuum DRAM, and, of course, a VFET is a FET > implemented using a vacuum. > IIRC, the ABC computer from the 1930's had a spinning drum for main memory that used capacitors on it. This was also a form of DRAM and had to be refreshed. So ideas just keep going around, and we hope getting better with each iteration... Also IIRC, some of the IBM computers in the 50's used Williams Tubes for part of their memory... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: alan.nospam@glaramara.freeserve.co.uk (Alan J. Wylie) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 23 Jan 2001 19:17:17 +0000 Organization: very little Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <94idpm$cbm$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-137.chaffinch.dialup.pol.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 980277466 5630 62.137.148.137 (23 Jan 2001 19:17:46 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jan 2001 19:17:46 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!linuxbox.ajwnet!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74063 On 22 Jan 2001 22:55:50 GMT, jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) said: > Of course, Williams Tubes were the DRAM technology of the late > 1940's. We ought to call them Vacuum DRAM, and, of course, a VFET > is a FET implemented using a vacuum. As mentioned in another thread, Tom Kilburn, the co-inventor of the Williams tube, died last week. http://www.computer50.org/mark1/kilburn.html The site seems to be down - an old version of the page can be found at http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.computer50.org/mark1/kilburn.html -- Alan J. Wylie http://www.glaramara.freeserve.co.uk/ "Perfection [in design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but rather when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Wed, 24 Jan 01 12:36:18 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <94mmgh$skn$2@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <980286645.13562.0.nnrp-02.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> <94kviu$elq$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <980330968.230577@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <3A6ECB13.79F58565@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <94mlg5$fhq$1@top.mitre.org> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZ6BmQhDtHezvwLGykoJXsYAGKHEkTZfo7BNrqIDwE4khoCnMcElWdq X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jan 2001 13:49:05 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!209.50.235.254!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.44!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-101 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74091 In article <94mlg5$fhq$1@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) wrote: >"Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)" writes: > >>Pity - I still have a vision of a Victorian battleship firing >>coal-burning cruise missiles directed by a huge steam-powered analytical >>engine. Perhaps it's because my wife gave me "A Transatlantic Tunnel - >>Hurrah!" for Christmas. > >That book is ... Oh! It's a book! I was wondering where he kept his tunnel when he wasn't playing with it. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Ian Stirling Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:48:38 GMT Message-ID: <980286518.4626.0.nnrp-07.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 980286518 nnrp-07:4626 NO-IDENT mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: tin/1.5.6-20000803 ("Dust") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.0-test7 (i686)) Originator: root@mauve.demon.co.uk Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mauve.demon.co.uk!root Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74119 Al Kossow wrote: >In article <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>, > wrote: >> No glowing diodes and hot transistors >If you have a glowing diode that isn't a hollow-state device or >an LED, something is SERIOUSLY wrong. IIRC, SiC based diodes can run hot enough to glow. -- http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling. ---------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------- Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off. - Random ###### From: Ian Stirling Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:50:45 GMT Message-ID: <980286645.13562.0.nnrp-02.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> References: <938c3s$eqb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 980286645 nnrp-02:13562 NO-IDENT mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: tin/1.5.6-20000803 ("Dust") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.0-test7 (i686)) Originator: root@mauve.demon.co.uk Lines: 7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mauve.demon.co.uk!root Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74120 Hmm. Wouldn't the oldest operating computer (as defined at the time) be human? -- http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling. ---------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------- "I am the Emperor, and I want dumplings." - Austrian Emperor, Ferdinand I. ###### From: jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 23 Jan 2001 22:11:42 GMT Organization: The University of Iowa Lines: 23 Message-ID: <94kviu$elq$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> References: <980286645.13562.0.nnrp-02.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu X-Trace: flood.weeg.uiowa.edu 980287902 15034 128.255.28.3 (23 Jan 2001 22:11:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.uiowa.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jan 2001 22:11:42 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.uiowa.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74101 From article <980286645.13562.0.nnrp-02.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk>, by Ian Stirling : > Wouldn't the oldest operating computer (as defined at the time) be human? It appears that computing machines were first referred to as computers a fairly long time before they stopped routinely referring to people as computers. As to the oldest operating computer, I have no reason to believe that Babbage's analytical engine isn't in operating condition. It was built by one of Charles Babbage's sons in the late 19th or early 20th century, it tended to jam, but it was used to compute a table of logarithms, and it's currently in the Science Museum, I believe, in London. In my building here at the U of Iowa, we have a working 3.5 function calculator that I occasionally use to compute a sum. Built in around 1910, and fully functional when hand cranked. The leather belt on the motor drive broke, and anyone who plugs in the motor is probably risking their life because of the frayed electrical cord. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu ###### From: William Donzelli Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:15:01 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: <94laag$v5q$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <94idpm$cbm$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.254.191.129 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Jan 24 01:15:01 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC, Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x63.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 165.254.191.129 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDaw288 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74072 In article <94idpm$cbm$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) wrote: > I recently > saw an article in the NY Times about Magnetic RAM, a new technnology > being developed by IBM, in which a thin layer of feromagnetic material > was spread between two conductive layers on the surface of a chip. Magnetic semiconductor memories are an idea that just won't die. Over the years, at least a couple of companies have tried to market NVRAMs using magnetic materials (at least one shipped products, called FRAMs - FerroRAMS - but I can not remember who did so. I have one of the chips around here. Simtek, maybe?). As far as I know, all have failed. It is a neat idea, but I think they belong in the same category as VLSI electron tubes on chips. William Donzelli Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ###### From: William Donzelli Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:26:48 GMT Organization: Deja.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: <94lb0h$vo5$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.254.191.129 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Jan 24 01:26:48 2001 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC, Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x63.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 165.254.191.129 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDaw288 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!comnets.rwth-aachen.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74068 In article <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com>, "Carl R. Friend" wrote: > Today, however, machines are typically > obsolete before they get purchased and are pretty much disposable > items. Have things really improved (think of the waste and the > environmental issues)? The issues are almost all cleared up. When a machine goes to the scrapyard, 98 percent (by mass) is recycled. As far as I know, the only things that are still difficult are the CRTs and the ceramics/ fibreglass/phenolics on the circuit boards. That is a very impressive achievement. William Donzelli Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer References: <980286645.13562.0.nnrp-02.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> <94kviu$elq$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Organization: paradise.net.nz customer X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Message-ID: <980330968.230577@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Cache-Post-Path: shelley.paradise.net.nz!unknown@203-96-144-16.cable.paradise.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 23 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:09:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.152.26 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 980330968 203.96.152.26 (Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:09:28 NZDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:09:28 NZDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!feeder.via.net!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74107 Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879 wrote: >As to the oldest operating computer, I have no reason to believe that >Babbage's analytical engine isn't in operating condition. It was built >by one of Charles Babbage's sons in the late 19th or early 20th century, >it tended to jam, but it was used to compute a table of logarithms, >and it's currently in the Science Museum, I believe, in London. Nope. The Difference Engine in the Science Museum is neither old nor a computer. Babbage built and tested a small prototype of his "Difference Engine", and started work on the full sized version. It was not completed. The Science Museum in London built the machine (from scratch) from Babbage's designs about a decade ago, and completed its printer a couple of years back. It works fine. But the Difference Engine is just an overgrown mechanical calculator; it's not a computer. Babbage also designed the far more complex "Analytical Engine", which would have been more or less a stored program computer, or at least would have had at least as much claim to the term as the ENIAC. But the Analytical Engine never left the drawing board. -- don ###### From: "Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:31:15 +0000 Message-ID: <3A6ECB13.79F58565@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <980286645.13562.0.nnrp-02.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> <94kviu$elq$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <980330968.230577@shelley.paradise.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 980339511 nnrp-13:26382 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!grolier!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!falstaff.tanglewood!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74099 Don Stokes wrote: > as the ENIAC. But the Analytical Engine never left the drawing board. Pity - I still have a vision of a Victorian battleship firing coal-burning cruise missiles directed by a huge steam-powered analytical engine. Perhaps it's because my wife gave me "A Transatlantic Tunnel - Hurrah!" for Christmas. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "It burned me from within. It quickened; I was with book as a woman is with child." CS Lewis - Till we have faces, Ch 21. ###### From: jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 24 Jan 2001 13:31:49 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 13 Message-ID: <94mlg5$fhq$1@top.mitre.org> References: <980286645.13562.0.nnrp-02.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> <94kviu$elq$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <980330968.230577@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <3A6ECB13.79F58565@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: jcmorris@mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 980343109 15930 128.29.251.13 (24 Jan 2001 13:31:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jan 2001 13:31:49 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74071 "Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)" writes: >Pity - I still have a vision of a Victorian battleship firing >coal-burning cruise missiles directed by a huge steam-powered analytical >engine. Perhaps it's because my wife gave me "A Transatlantic Tunnel - >Hurrah!" for Christmas. That book is one of the better examples of the genre of anachronistic-content fiction. I've always enjoyed the opening, in which a nuclear-powered locomotive works its way through a railyard, passing the switchlamp tender as he refills the oil reservoirs and trims the wicks... Joe Morris ###### From: jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 24 Jan 2001 14:45:12 GMT Organization: The University of Iowa Lines: 37 Message-ID: <94mppo$ecu$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> References: <980330968.230577@shelley.paradise.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu X-Trace: flood.weeg.uiowa.edu 980347512 14750 128.255.28.3 (24 Jan 2001 14:45:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.uiowa.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jan 2001 14:45:12 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.uiowa.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74100 From article <980330968.230577@shelley.paradise.net.nz>, by don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes): > Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879 wrote: >>As to the oldest operating computer, I have no reason to believe that >>Babbage's analytical engine isn't in operating condition. It was built >>by one of Charles Babbage's sons in the late 19th or early 20th century, >>it tended to jam, but it was used to compute a table of logarithms, >>and it's currently in the Science Museum, I believe, in London. > > Nope. The Difference Engine in the Science Museum is neither old nor a > computer. There's an analytical engine also. Don't confuse difference engines and analytical engines. Charles babbage built prototype difference engines, and in his lifetime, others built production models. Charles Babbage never built an analytical engine, but his son built a sufficiently complex prototype that the prototype could be used to compute a table of logarithms. It tended to jam. I found a table of the higher mathematical functions in the math library here at Iowa, published around 1912, that had a wonderful preface explaining how the functions were computed. The preface never once mentioned Babbage, but it went on in detail explaining how they used a German-made printing difference engine to compute the tables. They even had a photo of the engine; it was a hand-cranked desktop model. What we tend to forget today is that, while Babbage never completed more than a prototype, practical difference engines were in production use within his lifetime, and difference engines continued to be produced, on a very small scale, into this century. We also tend to forget that Babbage's son, Herschel I think it was, went on to build an analytical engine, or at least the mill for such an engine. I've only seen photos, but it was a beautiful piece of equipment, with a music box mechanism (pins in a drum) holding the microprogram. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu ###### From: nailed_barnacleSPAMFREE@hotmail.com (barnacle) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:20:09 GMT Organization: BT Internet Lines: 16 Message-ID: <94n69f$okq$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> References: <980286645.13562.0.nnrp-02.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> <94kviu$elq$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <980330968.230577@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <3A6ECB13.79F58565@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-7-44-66.btinternet.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!btnet-peer1!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!egbert Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74113 In article <3A6ECB13.79F58565@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>, "Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)" wrote: >Don Stokes wrote: > >> as the ENIAC. But the Analytical Engine never left the drawing board. > >Pity - I still have a vision of a Victorian battleship firing >coal-burning cruise missiles directed by a huge steam-powered analytical >engine. Perhaps it's because my wife gave me "A Transatlantic Tunnel - >Hurrah!" for Christmas. > Hmmm...Have you tried 'The Difference Engine' - Sterling and Gibson? -- I have a quantum car. Every time I look at the speedometer I get lost... barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer References: <980330968.230577@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <94mppo$ecu$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Organization: paradise.net.nz customer X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Message-ID: <980367964.948569@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Cache-Post-Path: shelley.paradise.net.nz!unknown@203-96-144-16.cable.paradise.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 27 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:26:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.152.26 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 980367965 203.96.152.26 (Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:26:05 NZDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:26:05 NZDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.via.net!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74108 Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879 wrote: >We also tend to forget that Babbage's son, Herschel I think it was, went >on to build an analytical engine, or at least the mill for such an engine. >I've only seen photos, but it was a beautiful piece of equipment, with a >music box mechanism (pins in a drum) holding the microprogram. Babbage's son Henry got the Mill and printer of the Analytical Engine to work to the point of producing a table of multiples of Pi, albeit unreliably. His reports and other stuff about the Analytical Engine are at: http://www.fourmilab.ch/babbage/contents.html Note that Henry writes, on the subject of his work on the machine: "Soon after my return to England I began to think that I might be able to complete the "Mill," not as part of the larger machine which my father proposed, but something which would be practically useful by itself in the hands of a skilled operator." Thus it is not correct to say that Henry built the Analytical Engine; rather he built a calculating machine based on parts of the Engine's design. John Herschel was a noted friend and contemporary of Babbage. -- don ###### From: jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 24 Jan 2001 21:10:02 GMT Organization: The University of Iowa Lines: 36 Message-ID: <94ngba$bqs$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> References: <980367964.948569@shelley.paradise.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu X-Trace: flood.weeg.uiowa.edu 980370602 12124 128.255.28.3 (24 Jan 2001 21:10:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.uiowa.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jan 2001 21:10:02 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!news.uiowa.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74124 From article <980367964.948569@shelley.paradise.net.nz>, by don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes): > Babbage's son Henry got the Mill and printer of the Analytical Engine to > work to the point of producing a table of multiples of Pi, albeit > unreliably. ... > ... it is not correct to say that Henry built the Analytical Engine; > rather he built a calculating machine based on parts of the Engine's > design. But this machine was a microprogrammed calculating machine, with a music box mechanism holding the microcode. The microinstruciton set included conditional branch operations, and it had multiple registers in additioin to an accumulator. Therefore, it had the key attributes of a Harvard architecture machine -- definitely non-Von Newmann, but essentially the same kind of machine that ENIAC was. ENIAC, you should recall, began life as a plug-board programmed calculator, admittedly, the plugboards could accomodate more program steps than the music box mechanism of Henry Babbages mill, and ENIAC had a few thousand registers in its data memory, but this is a matter of scale. ENIAC became a general purpose computer only when someone read the 1946 Berks, Goldstein and Von Neumann paper and wired up a plugboard to make ENIAC follow that model, interpreting machine code from its data memory. This made it, in theory, a microprogrammed implementation of a general purpose computer, although that wasn't recognized until later. > John Herschel was a noted friend and contemporary of Babbage. I know about John Herschel, son of, and later himself Astronomer Royal; I thought Babbage named a son after him. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu ###### From: rhn@nicholson.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 24 Jan 2001 23:20:56 GMT Organization: a2i network Lines: 21 Message-ID: <94no0o$b1b$1@samba.rahul.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: waltz.rahul.net NNTP-Posting-User: rhn Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!bug.rahul.net!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!rhn.a2i!rhn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74140 To be considered an operating computer, I would say it would have to be programmable, not fixed function, and have actually been powered up (or hand cranked) to perform some calculation within the last year. As of a couple years ago, the oldest machine that I know of that met this description was a relay logic computer in Japan; they showed a film last year at the Computer Museum History Center of it being powered up and calculating some trig tables. There was a lot of applause when they turned the sound up and one could hear all the relays clacking away. As for oldest operating calculating machine, I wonder whether the British or Deutsch Science Museum staff ever turned the crank on Pascal's or Leibnitz's old mechanical calculators. The working Babbage engine in the British Science Museum is only a contemporary replica. IMHO. -- Ron Nicholson rhn@nicholson.com http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/ #include // only my own opinions, etc. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer References: <980367964.948569@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <94ngba$bqs$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Organization: paradise.net.nz customer X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Message-ID: <980381533.149648@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Cache-Post-Path: shelley.paradise.net.nz!unknown@203-96-144-16.cable.paradise.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 48 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:12:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.152.26 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 980381533 203.96.152.26 (Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:12:13 NZDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:12:13 NZDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!193.162.153.122.MISMATCH!news.tele.dk!204.94.211.44!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74169 In article <94ngba$bqs$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879 wrote: >From article <980367964.948569@shelley.paradise.net.nz>, >by don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes): > >> Babbage's son Henry got the Mill and printer of the Analytical Engine to >> work to the point of producing a table of multiples of Pi, albeit >> unreliably. ... > >> ... it is not correct to say that Henry built the Analytical Engine; >> rather he built a calculating machine based on parts of the Engine's >> design. > >But this machine was a microprogrammed calculating machine, with a music >box mechanism holding the microcode. The microinstruciton set included >conditional branch operations, and it had multiple registers in additioin >to an accumulator. Therefore, it had the key attributes of a Harvard >architecture machine -- definitely non-Von Newmann, but essentially the >same kind of machine that ENIAC was. That may have been the intent of the complete Mill, but as far as I can make out, the bit that was actually built is little more than an adder, with connections to a printer. Two accumulators -- put pi in one, zero in the other, crank the handle and out comes a list of multiples of pi. Which is about where Henry Babbage got to with the thing. With errors mainly due to a flakey printer. In the completed machine, the accumulators would have been read and written from the store or other accumulators under program control. But the machine never got anywhere near that point. >ENIAC, you should recall, began life as a plug-board programmed calculator, >admittedly, the plugboards could accomodate more program steps than the >music box mechanism of Henry Babbages mill, and ENIAC had a few thousand >registers in its data memory, but this is a matter of scale. >> John Herschel was a noted friend and contemporary of Babbage. >I know about John Herschel, son of, and later himself Astronomer Royal; >I thought Babbage named a son after him. Babbage's eldest son, Benjamin Herschel Babbage, wrote some material about the Difference Engine after his father's death to accompany the machine (No. 1) donated to the Victoria & Albert Museum. But Herschel had made a name for himself as a civil engineer and explorer, spending much of his time in Australia. -- don ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 25 Jan 2001 10:26:23 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <94ov0f$9lj$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <980286645.13562.0.nnrp-02.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> <94kviu$elq$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <980330968.230577@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <3A6ECB13.79F58565@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 980418383 9907 134.117.136.30 (25 Jan 2001 10:26:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jan 2001 10:26:23 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!news-reader.ntrnet.net!news.onramp.ca!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74158 "Bob Billing " (unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk) writes: > > Pity - I still have a vision of a Victorian battleship firing > coal-burning cruise missiles directed by a huge steam-powered analytical > engine. Perhaps it's because my wife gave me "A Transatlantic Tunnel - > Hurrah!" for Christmas. I think it's time to move that Gestetner duplicating machine into another, better ventilated room. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Fri, 26 Jan 01 12:41:12 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 32 Message-ID: <94rvia$jmb$8@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <94lb0h$vo5$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A71385B.A6DCE344@mail.bcpl.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbicYFyZm+sTTpfvONZ/GvG90c6JPZv2PfabwYLe5i75w4Ug2auKjhD X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Jan 2001 13:54:18 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-72 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74226 In article <3A71385B.A6DCE344@mail.bcpl.net>, Ken McMonigal wrote: >William Donzelli wrote: > >> In article <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com>, >> "Carl R. Friend" wrote: >> >> > Today, however, machines are typically >> > obsolete before they get purchased and are pretty much disposable >> > items. Have things really improved (think of the waste and the >> > environmental issues)? >> >> The issues are almost all cleared up. When a machine goes to the >> scrapyard, 98 percent (by mass) is recycled. As far as I know, the only >> things that are still difficult are the CRTs and the ceramics/ >> fibreglass/phenolics on the circuit boards. >> >> That is a very impressive achievement. >I may have posted this here before, but CRT's/TV's are being >classified as toxic waste in some areas & not allowed in dumps. >A CRT can have 8 lbs. of lead in it. Yup. I yakked with the guy at our dump. He said that they move more than 50 of those CRT's/TV's per week. That's a lot of stuff for this small town. He also said that the recycler who does take this stuff apart is beginning to lose money. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Ian Stirling Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:00:55 GMT Message-ID: <980467255.24496.0.nnrp-14.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> References: <94no0o$b1b$1@samba.rahul.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 980467255 nnrp-14:24496 NO-IDENT mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: tin/1.5.6-20000803 ("Dust") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.0-test7 (i686)) Originator: root@mauve.demon.co.uk Lines: 14 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mauve.demon.co.uk!root Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74252 rhn@nicholson.com wrote: >To be considered an operating computer, I would say it would have to be >programmable, not fixed function, and have actually been powered up (or >hand cranked) to perform some calculation within the last year. I still think that by this definition, a person that's been employed as a computer, would count. -- http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling. ---------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------- He had been eight years upon a project for extracting sunbeams out of cucumbers, which were to be put in vials hermetically sealed, and let out to warm the air in raw inclement summers. -- Jonathan Swift, "Gulliver's Travels" (1726) ###### Message-ID: <3A71385B.A6DCE344@mail.bcpl.net> From: Ken McMonigal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <94lb0h$vo5$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 03:42:03 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.242.127.169 X-Complaints-To: abuse@bcpl.net X-Trace: news.abs.net 980498360 208.242.127.169 (Fri, 26 Jan 2001 03:39:20 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 03:39:20 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!nntp.abs.net!news.abs.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74196 William Donzelli wrote: > In article <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com>, > "Carl R. Friend" wrote: > > > Today, however, machines are typically > > obsolete before they get purchased and are pretty much disposable > > items. Have things really improved (think of the waste and the > > environmental issues)? > > The issues are almost all cleared up. When a machine goes to the > scrapyard, 98 percent (by mass) is recycled. As far as I know, the only > things that are still difficult are the CRTs and the ceramics/ > fibreglass/phenolics on the circuit boards. > > That is a very impressive achievement. > > William Donzelli > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ I may have posted this here before, but CRT's/TV's are being classified as toxic waste in some areas & not allowed in dumps. A CRT can have 8 lbs. of lead in it. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 27 Jan 01 15:30:39 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 24 Message-ID: <731.427T1970T9305659@sky.bus.com> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-741.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74330 In article <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes: >Al Kossow wrote: > >> In article <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>, >> wrote: >> >> > No glowing diodes and hot transistors >> >> If you have a glowing diode that isn't a hollow-state device or >> an LED, something is SERIOUSLY wrong. > >But that leaves out one of my favorite components: The Noise >Emitting Diode (NED). Apply 10000V, and it makes a loud noise >(once). Then there's the Black Hole Diode. They can be used to manufacture disk heads that can read a floppy right through the shrink wrap. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Sat, 27 Jan 01 13:07:02 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: <94ulf2$203$6@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <94lb0h$vo5$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A71385B.A6DCE344@mail.bcpl.net> <94rvia$jmb$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <3A72668E.A96F0FBF@mail.bcpl.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaixsrk/gBAwXqyvNvmsw0flayGRUMsF977eokLse6JY210NyBkLs+0 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jan 2001 14:20:18 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-80 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74395 In article <3A72668E.A96F0FBF@mail.bcpl.net>, Ken McMonigal wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> > CRT's/TV's are being >> >classified as toxic waste in some areas & not allowed in dumps. >> >A CRT can have 8 lbs. of lead in it. >> >> Yup. I yakked with the guy at our dump. He said that they move >> more than 50 of those CRT's/TV's per week. That's a lot of >> stuff for this small town. He also said that the recycler who >> does take this stuff apart is beginning to lose money. >I hope you're taking your Wintel box & software there >(to be replaced by something that works better) >and NOT taking any of your pdp-xxx stuff there! I'm about to take the VRC16 there when I get the strength. > >We'll find a place for the stuff somewhere when the >time comes in the hopefully distant future. ;) I can't afford to assume distance. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Wed, 31 Jan 01 11:50:55 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <9592hd$jfm$5@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <3A75F05A.135A984A@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <9564o7$2ld$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <9575q1$rph$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <3A773301.23E02E88@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYSzibnLWEgtGNh+fiRmLXO9jpB6fIaclznmxPXkFGmOpt2VkgMFZ9u X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Jan 2001 13:04:45 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-76 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74456 In article <3A773301.23E02E88@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>, "Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)" wrote: >"Jay R. Ashworth" wrote: > >> I once inadvertantly connected a neon bulb I was in the process of >> wiring into a *big* photoflash (external power pack; 320W/S) across the >> hot wires *without* it's series resistor. > >On the same project - the one that nearly cost me an eye - there was a >box which contained a PCB with two identical connectors. One carried >small-signal stuff and the other was power. The box was very carefully >designed so that the PCB could not be installed wrong way around and the >cables were too short to allow the wrong connectors to mate. It simply >couldn't happen. > >That of course meant it took three weeks. > >My boss managed to plug one up wrong way. There was a 50V winding on the >mains transformer that ended up going straight onto TTL. One package >heated up so fast that it went off with a crack rather like a rifle shot >and we found bits thirty feet away. > I've just remember why I decided that hardware was a guy thing. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Message-ID: <3A72668E.A96F0FBF@mail.bcpl.net> From: Ken McMonigal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <94lb0h$vo5$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3A71385B.A6DCE344@mail.bcpl.net> <94rvia$jmb$8@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:11:27 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.242.127.82 X-Complaints-To: abuse@bcpl.net X-Trace: news.abs.net 980575719 208.242.127.82 (Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:08:39 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:08:39 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!news.abs.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74380 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > CRT's/TV's are being > >classified as toxic waste in some areas & not allowed in dumps. > >A CRT can have 8 lbs. of lead in it. > > Yup. I yakked with the guy at our dump. He said that they move > more than 50 of those CRT's/TV's per week. That's a lot of > stuff for this small town. He also said that the recycler who > does take this stuff apart is beginning to lose money. > > /BAH > > Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. I hope you're taking your Wintel box & software there (to be replaced by something that works better) and NOT taking any of your pdp-xxx stuff there! We'll find a place for the stuff somewhere when the time comes in the hopefully distant future. ;) ###### From: john@polo.demon.co.uk (John Winters) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 27 Jan 2001 17:31:53 -0000 Organization: The Linux Emporium Message-ID: <94v0m9$gnd$1@polo.demon.co.uk> References: <94idpm$cbm$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: unseen.linuxemporium.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: unseen.linuxemporium.co.uk:194.70.1.33 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 980616765 nnrp-12:12376 NO-IDENT unseen.linuxemporium.co.uk:194.70.1.33 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 35 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed1.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!bullseye.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!unseen.linuxemporium.co.uk!polo.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74465 In article <94idpm$cbm$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879 wrote: >From article , by javnews@earthlink.net (John Varela): >> On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:31:23, aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote: >> >>> If you have a glowing diode that isn't a hollow-state device or >>> an LED, something is SERIOUSLY wrong. >> >> Not if what's glowing is the cathode heater. > >Never seen a cathode heater on a solid state device. You must be >referring to a hollow state device, also known as a firebottle, >particularly if the hollow device is filled with mercury vapor. You've made me think of something I've always wanted explaining and there might well be people here who can. When I was young we used to get our car batteries from an amazing man who worked out of a large shed and actually made the batteries on the premises. To charge them he simply used rectified mains and put about 20 batteries in series. The rectifier he used was a largish (2 feet tall?) sealed glass vessel with a pool (half a pint perhaps?) of mercury in the bottom. Several electrodes were near the top and a brilliant dot of light skated around on the surface of the mercury. I believe it was called a mercury arc rectifier but I've never understood how it worked. Can anyone enlighten me? Sorry about the lack of a computeresque element in this query. John -- John Winters. Wallingford, Oxon, England. The Linux Emporium - the source for Linux CDs in the UK See http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/ ###### Message-ID: <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 13:58:32 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.2 AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: reader1.news.uu.net 980621912 2403 63.73.218.130 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!ash.uu.net!spool0.news.uu.net!reader1.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74531 Al Kossow wrote: > > In article <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>, > wrote: > > > No glowing diodes and hot transistors > > If you have a glowing diode that isn't a hollow-state device or > an LED, something is SERIOUSLY wrong. But that leaves out one of my favorite components: The Noise Emitting Diode (NED). Apply 10000V, and it makes a loud noise (once). Tim. ###### From: john@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (John "West" McKenna) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 28 Jan 2001 03:53:20 +0800 Organization: University Computer Club Lines: 20 Message-ID: <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> X-Trace: enyo.uwa.edu.au 980625201 26903 130.95.13.17 (27 Jan 2001 19:53:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.uwa.edu.au Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.uwa.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74702 Tim Shoppa writes: >But that leaves out one of my favorite components: The Noise >Emitting Diode (NED). Apply 10000V, and it makes a loud noise >(once). Fortunately, they're cheap. And they've got a remarkably wide voltage tolerance. My favourite use for small 16V tantalum capacitors (or were they lower voltage? I can't remember) is to stick them in one end of a chip-carrier tube (the clear plastic sort), attach a couple of wires, and apply 24VAC (I'm sure mains would work just as well. 24VAC was convenient for us, and less likely to kill anyone). Lovely sparks and flames and bits of capacitor fly out the end of the tube. Then you open all the windows and go for a long lunch break. Stuff that smells like that can't be good for you. John ###### Message-ID: <3A73110A.66B5CAA5@trailing-edge.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:18:50 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.2 AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> <3A736F2A.415D9CAD@ev1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: reader0.news.uu.net 980637530 5716 63.73.218.130 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!ash.uu.net!spool0.news.uu.net!reader0.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74546 Charles Richmond wrote: > > Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > > > But that leaves out one of my favorite components: The Noise > > Emitting Diode (NED). Apply 10000V, and it makes a loud noise > > (once). > > > That's a pretty short MTBF... But at least all users are realistic about it :-). There's a guy I work with who really believes that if a component has a MTBF of 400000 hours that it will actually be good for 400000 hours, and doesn't listen to me when I repeatedly tell him that MTBF IS NOT LIFETIME Tim. ###### From: john@polo.demon.co.uk (John Winters) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 27 Jan 2001 22:25:23 -0000 Organization: The Linux Emporium Message-ID: <94vhsj$noo$1@polo.demon.co.uk> References: <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: unseen.linuxemporium.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: unseen.linuxemporium.co.uk:194.70.1.33 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 980634762 nnrp-10:21143 NO-IDENT unseen.linuxemporium.co.uk:194.70.1.33 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!newshub1.nl.home.com!news.nl.home.com!bullseye.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!unseen.linuxemporium.co.uk!polo.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74520 In article <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>, John "West" McKenna wrote: >Tim Shoppa writes: > >>But that leaves out one of my favorite components: The Noise >>Emitting Diode (NED). Apply 10000V, and it makes a loud noise >>(once). > >Fortunately, they're cheap. And they've got a remarkably wide voltage >tolerance. > >My favourite use for small 16V tantalum capacitors (or were they lower >voltage? I can't remember) is to stick them in one end of a chip-carrier >tube (the clear plastic sort), attach a couple of wires, and apply 24VAC >(I'm sure mains would work just as well. 24VAC was convenient for us, and >less likely to kill anyone). Lovely sparks and flames and bits of >capacitor fly out the end of the tube. I used to work in the theatre and we had a problem with setting off flash powder. (This was before everything came pre-encapsulated - you just bought flash powder in pots.) Buying flash powder itself was no problem but you needed a police licence to buy pyrotechnic fuses (little yellow match heads with 2 wires coming out of them. The alternative was just fuse wire but that wasn't 100% reliable. There were various techniques involving making a kink in the wire or a small loop but it still wasn't perfect. Some bright spark came up with the idea of using 1/8w carbon resistors as substitute fuses. These were excellent. John -- John Winters. Wallingford, Oxon, England. The Linux Emporium - the source for Linux CDs in the UK See http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/ ###### Message-ID: <3A736F2A.415D9CAD@ev1.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:00:25 -0800 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: taydal-207-55-144-165.ev1.net X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 980636677 taydal-207-55-144-165.ev1.net (27 Jan 2001 17:04:37 -0600) Lines: 15 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74790 Tim Shoppa wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > But that leaves out one of my favorite components: The Noise > Emitting Diode (NED). Apply 10000V, and it makes a loud noise > (once). > That's a pretty short MTBF... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Steve O'Hara-Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:06:21 +0100 Organization: EuroNet Internet Lines: 6 Message-ID: References: <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <94vhsj$noo$1@polo.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p021.vcu.wanadoo.nl X-Trace: buty.wanadoo.nl 980670799 77278 194.134.200.21 (28 Jan 2001 08:33:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: The appropriate party according to NNTP-Posting-Host: NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:33:19 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: tin/1.5.6-20000803 ("Dust") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.2-STABLE (i386)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!newshub1.nl.home.com!news.nl.home.com!news2.euro.net!news.wanadoo.nl!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74566 John Winters wrote: > still wasn't perfect. Some bright spark came up with the idea of using > 1/8w carbon resistors as substitute fuses. These were excellent. Damn I wish I'd known that 25 years ago :) ###### From: nailed_barnacleSPAMFREE@hotmail.com (barnacle) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:37:23 GMT Organization: BT Internet Lines: 34 Message-ID: <950ll8$5ov$1@uranium.btinternet.com> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-195-167.btinternet.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!btnet-peer1!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!egbert Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74650 In article <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>, john@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (John "West" McKenna) wrote: >Tim Shoppa writes: > >>But that leaves out one of my favorite components: The Noise >>Emitting Diode (NED). Apply 10000V, and it makes a loud noise >>(once). > >Fortunately, they're cheap. And they've got a remarkably wide voltage >tolerance. > >My favourite use for small 16V tantalum capacitors (or were they lower >voltage? I can't remember) is to stick them in one end of a chip-carrier >tube (the clear plastic sort), attach a couple of wires, and apply 24VAC >(I'm sure mains would work just as well. 24VAC was convenient for us, and >less likely to kill anyone). Lovely sparks and flames and bits of >capacitor fly out the end of the tube. > >Then you open all the windows and go for a long lunch break. Stuff that >smells like that can't be good for you. > >John If you're going to use mains (120V variety) then you shouldn't waste it on capacitors - use pickled gherkins instead. Not only does the glow they emit look as if it *really* belongs in mad scientist's lab, but the accompanying smell should get you the whole afternoon off. Don't try this at home, children... -- I have a quantum car. Every time I look at the speedometer I get lost... barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk ###### From: als@usenet.thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 28 Jan 2001 23:19:19 GMT Organization: Chemnitz University of Technology Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> Reply-To: als@usenet.thangorodrim.de NNTP-Posting-Host: bofh.csn.tu-chemnitz.de X-Trace: narses.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de 980723959 8079 134.109.108.7 (28 Jan 2001 23:19:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.tu-chemnitz.de NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jan 2001 23:19:19 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news.tu-chemnitz.de!als Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74666 Al Kossow wrote: >In article <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com>, > wrote: > >> No glowing diodes and hot transistors > >If you have a glowing diode that isn't a hollow-state device or >an LED, something is SERIOUSLY wrong. Cue the SED device: Smoke Emitting Diode. SCNR, Alex. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ EMail : als@thangorodrim.de | WWW : http://www.thangorodrim.de/ "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison ###### From: dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:56:44 +0000 Organization: I do not speak for anyone but myself, and barely that. Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 27 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!193.190.198.17!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.online.be!sn-uk-xit-01!sn-uk-post-02!sn-uk-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.co.uk!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74745 In article <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>, john@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (John "West" McKenna) writes: [...] > My favourite use for small 16V tantalum capacitors (or were they lower > voltage? I can't remember) is to stick them in one end of a chip-carrier > tube (the clear plastic sort), attach a couple of wires, and apply 24VAC > (I'm sure mains would work just as well. 24VAC was convenient for us, and > less likely to kill anyone). Lovely sparks and flames and bits of > capacitor fly out the end of the tube. I knew someone at school who was very keen on exploding capacitors. We discovered that tantalums produce nice sharp *bang*s, with puffs of (probably poisonous) purple smoke; electrolytics go pop, with puffs of (probably poisonous) white smoke. I forget what the other kind did. He worked out a complicated technique for getting the best possible explosion out of large caps that involved a signal generator, a step-up transformer, and careful experimentation to work out the resonant frequency of the cap. His greatest moment was when he managed to blow up a ten-centimetre long electrolytic and have the bits bounce off the ceiling. I believe he then kept his toothbrush in the can. -- +- David Given ---------------McQ-+ | Work: dg@tao-group.com | There is no spoon. | Play: dgiven@iname.com | +- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+ ###### From: "Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:36:10 +0000 Message-ID: <3A75F05A.135A984A@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 980808506 nnrp-09:13103 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed1.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!bullseye.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!falstaff.tanglewood!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74622 David Given wrote: > His greatest moment was when he managed to blow up a ten-centimetre long > electrolytic and have the bits bounce off the ceiling. I believe he then > kept his toothbrush in the can. Careful! I once nearly lost an eye to an electrolytic in a wrongly-wired PSU that went up. In fact it wrote off a keyboard, a printer mechanism and a VFD. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "It burned me from within. It quickened; I was with book as a woman is with child." CS Lewis - Till we have faces, Ch 21. ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:03:32 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <980809412snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <980286645.13562.0.nnrp-02.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> <94kviu$elq$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 980811694 mail2news:25959 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 26 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74810 In article <94kviu$elq$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> jones@cs.uiowa.edu "Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879" writes: > From article <980286645.13562.0.nnrp-02.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk>, > by Ian Stirling : > > > Wouldn't the oldest operating computer (as defined at the time) be human? > > It appears that computing machines were first referred to as computers > a fairly long time before they stopped routinely referring to people as > computers. FWIW, when human beings were employed upon computational work, they were referred to as computors (with an Oh, for the dyslexic). Early tomes on electronic computing (eg Maurice Wilkes') underscored that distinction, IIRC. Mind you, that was in Brenglish: Amglish may differ. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, BT Labs ###### From: Dennis Ritchie Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 04:16:51 +0000 Organization: Bell Labs/Lucent Technologies Lines: 24 Message-ID: <3A764033.D386C88@bell-labs.com> References: <980286645.13562.0.nnrp-02.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> <94kviu$elq$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <980809412snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: trux.cs.bell-labs.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!207.24.196.41!nntphub.cb.lucent.com!news Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74298 Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote: ... > > FWIW, when human beings were employed upon computational work, they were > referred to as computors (with an Oh, for the dyslexic). Early tomes on > electronic computing (eg Maurice Wilkes') underscored that distinction, > IIRC. > > Mind you, that was in Brenglish: Amglish may differ. Possibly there was a statistical Brenglish/Amglish distinction, but the OED seems to think that 'computer' has been more canonical: earlier on, indeed mostly applied to people who computed (citations from 1646, through 1855; with one from 1744 with -or, but still in the sense of a person). Surprisingly early (citations beginning 1897) it began (with -er) to be applied to machines as well. The current OED 2 entry for the -or form is, somewhat uncharacteristically, prescriptive in tone: "computor, bad spelling of computer." Dennis ###### From: john@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (John "West" McKenna) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 30 Jan 2001 18:24:07 +0800 Organization: University Computer Club Lines: 16 Message-ID: <9564o7$2ld$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <3A75F05A.135A984A@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> X-Trace: enyo.uwa.edu.au 980850249 23545 130.95.13.17 (30 Jan 2001 10:24:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.uwa.edu.au Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.uwa.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74656 "Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)" writes: >Careful! I once nearly lost an eye to an electrolytic in a wrongly-wired >PSU that went up. In fact it wrote off a keyboard, a printer mechanism >and a VFD. I vividly remember having my head in the back of an arcade video game once, trying to see why it didn't work. The idiot assemblers had wired up the power to the sound board backwards - I discovered this when an electrolytic exploded right next to my ear. I had to take the rest of the day off. I was very lucky my head didn't jerk back when it happened. I would have taken the (powered) neck board off the monitor. John ###### From: nailed_barnacleSPAMFREE@hotmail.com (barnacle) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:48:21 GMT Organization: BT Internet Lines: 27 Message-ID: <9575q1$rph$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <3A75F05A.135A984A@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <9564o7$2ld$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-181-229.btinternet.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!btnet-peer1!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!egbert Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74705 In article <9564o7$2ld$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>, john@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (John "West" McKenna) wrote: >"Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)" writes: > >>Careful! I once nearly lost an eye to an electrolytic in a wrongly-wired >>PSU that went up. In fact it wrote off a keyboard, a printer mechanism >>and a VFD. > >I vividly remember having my head in the back of an arcade video game once, >trying to see why it didn't work. The idiot assemblers had wired up the >power to the sound board backwards - I discovered this when an electrolytic >exploded right next to my ear. > >I had to take the rest of the day off. I was very lucky my head didn't >jerk back when it happened. I would have taken the (powered) neck board >off the monitor. > >John We got the warning before we plugged it in - but we were once supplied with an entire vision mixer which had had *every* decoupling tant inserted in reverse by the construction robot...There are an awful lot of decoupling caps in a vision mixer. Guess who got the job of changing 'em? -- I have a quantum car. Every time I look at the speedometer I get lost... barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk ###### From: jra@dorothy.msas.net (Jay R. Ashworth) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <3A75F05A.135A984A@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <9564o7$2ld$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <9575q1$rph$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> Reply-To: jra@baylink.com Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 23 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:26:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.32.105.179 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.tampabay.rr.com 980886406 65.32.105.179 (Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:46 EST Organization: RoadRunner - TampaBay Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!typhoon.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74669 On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:48:21 GMT, barnacle wrote: > We got the warning before we plugged it in - but we were once supplied with an > entire vision mixer which had had *every* decoupling tant inserted in reverse > by the construction robot...There are an awful lot of decoupling caps in > a vision mixer. Guess who got the job of changing 'em? That's a 'switcher'... for us 'murricans, right? :-) I once inadvertantly connected a neon bulb I was in the process of wiring into a *big* photoflash (external power pack; 320W/S) across the hot wires *without* it's series resistor. I had to dig pieces out of the wall... and I literally could not hear anything for at least 15 minutes. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015 ###### From: "Bob Billing (AKA Uncle Bob)" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:32:49 +0000 Message-ID: <3A773301.23E02E88@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <3A75F05A.135A984A@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <9564o7$2ld$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <9575q1$rph$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 980891836 nnrp-09:17413 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!falstaff.tanglewood!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74618 "Jay R. Ashworth" wrote: > I once inadvertantly connected a neon bulb I was in the process of > wiring into a *big* photoflash (external power pack; 320W/S) across the > hot wires *without* it's series resistor. On the same project - the one that nearly cost me an eye - there was a box which contained a PCB with two identical connectors. One carried small-signal stuff and the other was power. The box was very carefully designed so that the PCB could not be installed wrong way around and the cables were too short to allow the wrong connectors to mate. It simply couldn't happen. That of course meant it took three weeks. My boss managed to plug one up wrong way. There was a 50V winding on the mains transformer that ended up going straight onto TTL. One package heated up so fast that it went off with a crack rather like a rifle shot and we found bits thirty feet away. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "It burned me from within. It quickened; I was with book as a woman is with child." CS Lewis - Till we have faces, Ch 21. ###### From: anonymous@nowhere.you.know Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: 31 Jan 2001 16:37:37 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 20 Message-ID: <959f0h$15k8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74363 In article <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com>, Tim Shoppa wrote: >But that leaves out one of my favorite components: The Noise >Emitting Diode (NED). Apply 10000V, and it makes a loud noise >(once). WHich is, of course, closely related to the stroboscopic vacuum tube. About fifteen years ago, my father was showing me my grandfather's vacuum tube tester, a small portable model. A pin was bent on tube, so it wouldn't fit in the socket. He told me that this was not a problem, as there was a pin straightener up top. I tried to warn him that that was also a numbered socket, but he didn't listen. 100 volts on a 6 volt tube is impressive:) hawk ~ ~ ###### From: ddotpowell@netnospamscapeonline.co.uk (David Powell) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 20:30:27 GMT Reply-To: ddotpowell@netscapeonline.co.uk Message-ID: <3a7b17fe.1141473@newshost.netscapeonline.co.uk> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 NNTP-Posting-Host: useraq28.netscapeonline.co.uk X-Trace: 2 Feb 2001 19:32:47 GMT, useraq28.netscapeonline.co.uk Lines: 17 X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@netscapeonline.co.uk Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!iclnet!plato.netscapeonline.co.uk!useraq28.netscapeonline.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:74274 On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:56:44 +0000, dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) wrote: > >His greatest moment was when he managed to blow up a ten-centimetre long >electrolytic and have the bits bounce off the ceiling. I believe he then >kept his toothbrush in the can. > Floor mounted 800V 400mA PSU for valve amateur radio transmitter, 16uF, 799Vwkg. oil filled capacitor. After the bang, the capacitor had telescopically extended itself from floor to ceiling. Regards, David P. ###### From: dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:23:42 +0000 Organization: I do not speak for anyone but myself, and barely that. Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <3a7b17fe.1141473@newshost.netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 14 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!sn-xit-03!sn-uk-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.co.uk!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75081 In article <3a7b17fe.1141473@newshost.netscapeonline.co.uk>, ddotpowell@netnospamscapeonline.co.uk (David Powell) writes: [...] > Floor mounted 800V 400mA PSU for valve amateur radio transmitter, > 16uF, 799Vwkg. oil filled capacitor. After the bang, the capacitor had > telescopically extended itself from floor to ceiling. Yow. Did you do it on purpose? And isn't that oil poisonous when inhaled? -- +- David Given ---------------McQ-+ | Work: dg@tao-group.com | If a man speaks in a forest, and there is | Play: dgiven@iname.com | no woman to hear him, is he still wrong? +- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+ ###### From: ddotpowell@netnospamscapeonline.co.uk (David Powell) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Oldest operating computer Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 20:11:11 GMT Reply-To: ddotpowell@netscapeonline.co.uk Message-ID: <3a82fbee.149932@newshost.netscapeonline.co.uk> References: <3A64F981.AADBA12B@prescienttech.com> <3A6AD0A9.1F3B@terrigal.net.au> <3A6AF8A3.D319EA19@prescienttech.com> <2HMa6.87460$ge4.32782611@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com> <3A72D408.11614798@trailing-edge.com> <94v8vg$erf$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <3a7b17fe.1141473@newshost.netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 NNTP-Posting-Host: useraz40.netscapeonline.co.uk X-Trace: 8 Feb 2001 19:13:22 GMT, useraz40.netscapeonline.co.uk Lines: 24 X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@netscapeonline.co.uk Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!btnet-peer!btnet!newsfeed.icl.net!iclnet!plato.netscapeonline.co.uk!useraz40.netscapeonline.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:75087 On Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:23:42 +0000, dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) wrote: >In article <3a7b17fe.1141473@newshost.netscapeonline.co.uk>, > ddotpowell@netnospamscapeonline.co.uk (David Powell) writes: >[...] >> Floor mounted 800V 400mA PSU for valve amateur radio transmitter, >> 16uF, 799Vwkg. oil filled capacitor. After the bang, the capacitor had >> telescopically extended itself from floor to ceiling. > >Yow. Did you do it on purpose? And isn't that oil poisonous when inhaled? > Nope, I was a schoolkid at the time, no money, so using 20 year old military surplus components, and I had been 'reliably informed' that the Mil-Spec capacitors had a 50% voltage derating over the domestic ones. The oil was ordinary mineral insulating oil (and much friendlier than the stuff in electrolytics). Poisonous oils, e.g. Pyrochlor and Askerel (sp?) didn't become popular (?) until the mid sixties. Regards, David -older and wiser- P.