From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: 26 Dec 2000 19:29:34 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 76 Message-ID: <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <91sgdc$2sa$1@panix6.panix.com> <91utnr$asj$1@panix2.panix.com> <926pmc$dju$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-135.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71505 In article <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net>, Charles says... > >Reminds me of the mechanical television design that was put forward by >General Electric, IIRC. The U.S. standardized on the RCA design for >electronic television, though. But the mechanical TV involved some sort >of spinning disk... Maybe someone can post details??? I actually saw a spinning disk TV system, it was part of a Conceptual art exhibit by the internationally reknown artist Chris Burden. It was part of an exhibit of "do it yourself" technologies. This one was called CBTV (Chris Burden TV), they also had a "B-Car" (his DIY automobile), a version of the Michaelson-Morely experiment, and other various technologies that Chris Burden had created a DIY version for himself. Unfortunately, when I saw CBTV, there was a litle sign saying the exhibit was broken and inoperable. I contacted the museum office and said I was familiar with the technology since I had studied it and done similar experiments in a physics class, and I offered to repair it for them. They declined. I never did see this apparatus in operation. Here is the description of C.B.T.V. written by the artist, as it appeared in the catalog from his retrospective (I have an autographed copy!) --- C.B.T.V (Chris Burden Television) The theory behind television, or the instantaneous transmission of a moving image from one place to another, was known for sixty years before it was physically possible to demonstrate it. Around 1915, John L. Baird, and English inventor, succeeded in transmitting shadowy images from one room to another in his home. Baird's primitive television was mechanical rather than elecronic, and employed a rapidly revolving metal disk, perforated with a spiral of holes. Each tiny hole in the disk was able to scan a single line of the picture area. Behind the disk, a condenser lens focused the light passing thorugh the hole onto a single photoelectric cell. The photoelectric cell could turn on and off very rapidly, corresponding to areas of light and dark. Thus, the image area was "scanned" or broken down into a discrete number of on-and-off electronic impulses. The image could be reconstructed when these impulses were transmitted and decoded by a similar mechanism some distance away. The system is extremely precise. The disk in the camera turns at 1200 revolutions per minute or 20 times each second. there are 45 holes in the disk. Each hole passes the picture area in approximately 1/1000 of a second. During this time (1/1000 of a second), the photo cell must turn on and off 50 times in order that each scan line can be broken down into a series of on-off signlas. Thus the photo cell turns on and off 50,000 times per second or 50kHz. This on-off signal is sent down the wire or converted into a radio wave. The receiver is almost an exact copy of the camera. A very special light is turned on and off at 50kHz by the signals originating from the cmera. If the disk in the receiver is turning at exactly the same speed as the disk inthe camer and the corresponding hole (i.e. hole #1 in the camera corresponds to hole #1 in the reciever, etc.) passes the screen area (the flashing neon plate in the receiver) at the same exact moment as the hole in the camera, you have recreated one scan line. this process is repeated for each hole, but it happens so rapidly that the human eye "sees" all the scan lines reproduced in the receiver as a simgle complete image. I believe that, as a technological invention, television is of extreme significance as it is a most successful solution to man's historic desire to "see beyond" his immediate surroundings, and it has made instant visual communication possible. as technology becomes more and more complex, fewer and fewer people have any understandinf of how anything works. By reduplicating and demonstrating television in its original mechanical and relatively simple form, I hoped to enable people to understand the principle behind today's electronic television. --- As a sidenote, based on my own studies, it appears this system was abandoned because of the difficulty of synchronizing the sender and receiver disks. It was necessary to keep the 1200rpm motors in the receiver precisely synchronized to the sender, at a degree that was not technically possible at that time (at least, not in an inexpensive mass market device). If this technological obstacle had been overcome, perhaps today we would all be watching spinning disks instead of CRTs! ###### From: Ron Wellsted Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 21:05:03 GMT Organization: (Posted via) GTS Netcom - Public USENET Service http://pubnews.netcom.net.uk Lines: 38 Sender: ron@wellsted.org.uk Message-ID: <20001227.21050300@ron-ws.wellsted> References: <91sgdc$2sa$1@panix6.panix.com> <91utnr$asj$1@panix2.panix.com> <926pmc$dju$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net> <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-1-59.cvx2.telinco.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: taliesin.netcom.net.uk 977985098 17000 212.1.140.59 (28 Dec 2000 06:31:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@corp.netcom.net.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Dec 2000 06:31:38 GMT X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Newsreader: Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; StarOffice/5.2;Linux) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!pubnews.netcom.net.uk!news.wellsted.org.uk!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71633 John Logie Baird and the BBC experimented broadcasting using this system= =20 in 1932-39 on the medium wave (AM band) using one transmitter for audio = and another for the video. The picture was portrait orientation with 30= =20 lines vertically. The system used a device called the Nipkow (IIRC) dis= c=20 which was 20-30in in diameter to give an image of about 2x1 inches. At = the transmitter, the subject would be in a darken room with banks of=20 photo-cells (selenium) and the only light source was behind the scanning= =20 disk (an arc lamp in the next room?). Later experiments used a mirror=20 drum (just like the ones in laser printers) instead of the disk, this wa= y=20 the system was eventually able to achieve 1000+ line resolution, before = the electronic system replaced it. The 30-line receiver was a basically a normal radio set with a neon with= =20 a large flat cathode as the output device. By varying the current=20 through the device the brightness would change. Using a similar scannin= g=20 disc in sync with the transmitter a picture could be seen. There used t= o=20 be (still is?) a working model of this system in the Science Museum in=20 London. The biggest problem was maintaining sync between the transmitter ad=20 receiver discs. The usual solution was to use a button brake on the shaf= t=20 of the receiver disk to manually sync the disks. --=20 Ron Wellsted, E-mail: ron@wellsted.org.uk http://www.wellsted.org.uk ###### From: jsavard@ecn.ab.SBLOK.ca.nowhere (John Savard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Message-ID: <3a4a6730.7493451@news.powersurfr.com> References: <91sgdc$2sa$1@panix6.panix.com> <91utnr$asj$1@panix2.panix.com> <926pmc$dju$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net> <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 23 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:05:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.108.206.34 X-Complaints-To: abuse@powersurfr.com X-Trace: news-rep.ab.videon.ca 977954743 24.108.206.34 (Wed, 27 Dec 2000 15:05:43 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 15:05:43 MST Organization: Videon CableSystems Alberta Inc. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!cyclone.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news-rep.ab.videon.ca!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71656 On 26 Dec 2000 19:29:34 -0800, Charles Eicher wrote, in part: >In article <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net>, Charles says... >>Reminds me of the mechanical television design that was put forward by >>General Electric, IIRC. The U.S. standardized on the RCA design for >>electronic television, though. But the mechanical TV involved some sort >>of spinning disk... Maybe someone can post details??? >I actually saw a spinning disk TV system, it was part of a Conceptual art >exhibit by the internationally reknown artist Chris Burden. I suspect the other Charles is referring not to the Nipkow disk, but to the CBS incompatible system of color television, where a black and white TV set, operating on a different standard with a high frame rate had a spinning disk in front of it divided into red, green, and blue filter areas. This allowed frame sequential color transmissions. The NTSC color system we use today is based on the alternative proposal from NBC and RCA. John Savard http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:36:29 -0700 Organization: Systematic Software Lines: 50 Message-ID: <8bno4t42ktj291qmn5l7mrh4615r60vhq9@4ax.com> References: <91sgdc$2sa$1@panix6.panix.com> <91utnr$asj$1@panix2.panix.com> <926pmc$dju$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net> <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: h-207-148-130-36.dial.cadvision.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.cadvision.com 978125790 5910 207.148.130.36 (29 Dec 2000 21:36:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cadvision.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 21:36:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp.cadvision.com!207.228.64.17.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71812 On 26 Dec 2000 19:29:34 -0800, Charles Eicher wrote: >In article <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net>, Charles says... >> > >>Reminds me of the mechanical television design that was put forward by >>General Electric, IIRC. The U.S. standardized on the RCA design for >>electronic television, though. But the mechanical TV involved some sort >>of spinning disk... Maybe someone can post details??? > >I actually saw a spinning disk TV system, it was part of a Conceptual art >exhibit by the internationally reknown artist Chris Burden. It was part of an >exhibit of "do it yourself" technologies. This one was called CBTV (Chris Burden >TV), they also had a "B-Car" (his DIY automobile), a version of the >Michaelson-Morely experiment, and other various technologies that Chris Burden >had created a DIY version for himself. How come few outside their own sphere has ever heard of these "internationally reknowned" artistes? >Unfortunately, when I saw CBTV, there was a litle sign saying the exhibit was >broken and inoperable. I contacted the museum office and said I was familiar >with the technology since I had studied it and done similar experiments in a >physics class, and I offered to repair it for them. They declined. I never did >see this apparatus in operation. > >Here is the description of C.B.T.V. written by the artist, as it appeared in the >catalog from his retrospective (I have an autographed copy!) > >--- > >C.B.T.V (Chris Burden Television) > >The theory behind television, or the instantaneous transmission of a moving >image from one place to another, was known for sixty years before it was >physically possible to demonstrate it. Around 1915, John L. Baird, and English !!!!!!! >inventor, succeeded in transmitting shadowy images from one room to another in >his home. Lying wee sassenach baistard -- he was Scottish! John Logie must be spinning in his grave! See: Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian_Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) use address above to reply ###### From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: 29 Dec 2000 14:10:02 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: <92j23q02sb2@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <91sgdc$2sa$1@panix6.panix.com> <91utnr$asj$1@panix2.panix.com> <926pmc$dju$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net> <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <8bno4t42ktj291qmn5l7mrh4615r60vhq9@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-529.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone0.chicago.il.ameritech.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71824 In article <8bno4t42ktj291qmn5l7mrh4615r60vhq9@4ax.com>, Brian says... > >How come few outside their own sphere has ever heard of these >"internationally reknowned" artistes? How come people are so quick to sneer at artists? Maybe you should pay more attention to artists, they always come up with the interesting questions about one generation before the scientists get to them. I am sure you would have recognized Chris Burden if I described him as "that guy who had himself shot in the arm as a performance art piece." >Lying wee sassenach baistard -- he was Scottish! John Logie must >be spinning in his grave! See: > Well just be thankful that I cited Baird at all. Others were ready to ascribe this device to General Electric. But even Baird wasn't the inventor, your website clearly cites Nipkow's 1884 invention. ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: 29 Dec 2000 19:48:11 -0700 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 26 Message-ID: <1bn1defwus.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu> References: <91sgdc$2sa$1@panix6.panix.com> <91utnr$asj$1@panix2.panix.com> <926pmc$dju$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net> <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <8bno4t42ktj291qmn5l7mrh4615r60vhq9@4ax.com> <92j23q02sb2@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 978144492 1841 128.123.64.113 (30 Dec 2000 02:48:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Dec 2000 02:48:12 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!gatel-ffm!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!novia!atl1-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71839 Charles Eicher writes: > In article <8bno4t42ktj291qmn5l7mrh4615r60vhq9@4ax.com>, Brian says... > > > > >How come few outside their own sphere has ever heard of these > >"internationally reknowned" artistes? > > How come people are so quick to sneer at artists? Maybe you should pay more > attention to artists, they always come up with the interesting questions about > one generation before the scientists get to them. I'm not sure I agree with the latter comment, but there are lots of people in all fields who are internationally renowned, but only in their field. I once mentioned Seymour Cray to a non-computer type, and got a completely blank look back... > I am sure you would have recognized Chris Burden if I described him as "that guy > who had himself shot in the arm as a performance art piece." No, in fact I wouldn't have.... -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer VL 2000 Homepage: http://www.cs.orst.edu/~burnett/vl2000/ ###### Message-ID: <3A4DEFDF.3449EA1E@ev1.net> Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 06:23:26 -0800 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories References: <91sgdc$2sa$1@panix6.panix.com> <91utnr$asj$1@panix2.panix.com> <926pmc$dju$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net> <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <8bno4t42ktj291qmn5l7mrh4615r60vhq9@4ax.com> <92j23q02sb2@edrn.newsguy.com> <1bn1defwus.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: taydal-207-55-144-9.ev1.net X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 978179261 taydal-207-55-144-9.ev1.net (30 Dec 2000 06:27:41 -0600) Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!newsfeed.nwlink.com!nntp2.savvis.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71887 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > I'm not sure I agree with the latter comment, but there are lots of > people in all fields who are internationally renowned, but only in > their field. I once mentioned Seymour Cray to a non-computer type, > and got a completely blank look back... > All too true...many people are well known *only* within their field of specialty. And each country has its own set of famous people... But Seymour Cray *deserves* to be more widely know...he is such an *interesting* person. He worked in some odd locations, including his own front porch, and also a warehouse where large rolls of newsprint paper were stored. He was dedicated to his craft, and that made a lot of his life choices seem quirky. IMHO he has *not* appeared on A & E's Biography series simply because they do *not* know what an interesting life he had. Certainly if they knew his achievements, he would rate an appearance on Biography easily... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: 30 Dec 2000 19:53:47 -0700 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 32 Message-ID: <1b4rzluwqs.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu> References: <91sgdc$2sa$1@panix6.panix.com> <91utnr$asj$1@panix2.panix.com> <926pmc$dju$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net> <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <8bno4t42ktj291qmn5l7mrh4615r60vhq9@4ax.com> <92j23q02sb2@edrn.newsguy.com> <1bn1defwus.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu> <3A4DEFDF.3449EA1E@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 978231226 20934 128.123.64.113 (31 Dec 2000 02:53:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Dec 2000 02:53:46 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71931 Charles Richmond writes: > But Seymour Cray *deserves* to be more widely know...he is such an > *interesting* person. I agree completely. > He worked in some odd locations, including his > own front porch, and also a warehouse where large rolls of newsprint > paper were stored. He was dedicated to his craft, and that made a lot > of his life choices seem quirky. Ummmm, several of the Seymour stories I've heard sound pretty strange regardless of his dedication to his craft (not to disparage that dedication or brilliance -- I *still* use the CDC 6600 as my primary example of out-of-order execution in my Computer Architecture class). The annual sailboat? The basement tunnels? > IMHO he has *not* appeared on A & E's > Biography series simply because they do *not* know what an interesting > life he had. Certainly if they knew his achievements, he would rate > an appearance on Biography easily... He definitely rates an appearance. Hmmm.. Biography likes to do occasional ``theme weeks.'' Who else would make good choices for a ``Brilliant Scientists And Engineers Nobody But Scientists and Engineers Have Ever Heard Of'' week? -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer VL 2000 Homepage: http://www.cs.orst.edu/~burnett/vl2000/ ###### From: "The Bakers" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <91sgdc$2sa$1@panix6.panix.com> <91utnr$asj$1@panix2.panix.com> <926pmc$dju$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net> <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <8bno4t42ktj291qmn5l7mrh4615r60vhq9@4ax.com> <92j23q02sb2@edrn.newsguy.com> <1bn1defwus.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu> <3A4DEFDF.3449EA1E@ev1.net> <1b4rzluwqs.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu> Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Lines: 12 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 00:30:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.176.117 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 978309023 12.79.176.117 (Mon, 01 Jan 2001 00:30:23 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 00:30:23 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.cwix.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!europa.netcrusader.net!204.127.161.3!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71958 "Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message news:1b4rzluwqs.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu... > Biography likes to do > occasional ``theme weeks.'' Who else would make good choices for a > ``Brilliant Scientists And Engineers Nobody But Scientists and > Engineers Have Ever Heard Of'' week? Don Knuth ? ###### From: "Roger Johnstone" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 16:18:18 +1300 Organization: ihug ( New Zealand ) Lines: 28 Message-ID: <92osui$9l5$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> References: <91sgdc$2sa$1@panix6.panix.com> <91utnr$asj$1@panix2.panix.com> <926pmc$dju$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net> <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <3a4a6730.7493451@news.powersurfr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p55-max1.inv.ihug.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: lust.ihug.co.nz 978319124 9893 203.173.222.183 (1 Jan 2001 03:18:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@ihug.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 03:18:44 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp-relay.ihug.net!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!lust.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71950 ---------- In article <3a4a6730.7493451@news.powersurfr.com>, jsavard@ecn.ab.SBLOK.ca.nowhere (John Savard) wrote: > I suspect the other Charles is referring not to the Nipkow disk, but > to the CBS incompatible system of color television, where a black and > white TV set, operating on a different standard with a high frame rate > had a spinning disk in front of it divided into red, green, and blue > filter areas. This allowed frame sequential color transmissions. > > The NTSC color system we use today is based on the alternative > proposal from NBC and RCA. Old solutions never die, they just find new problems. Some video projectors using the Texas Instruments DMD (digital micromirror device) still use the spinning red-green-blue disk to produce a colour image. It's cheaper than using 3 DMDs. -- Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand Apple II - Future Cop:LAPD - Warcraft II http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~rojaws ______________________________________________________________________ "I think there is a world market for about five computers." Remark attributed to Thomas J. Watson (Chairman of the Board of International Business Machines), 1943 ###### Message-ID: <3A50641A.2346BC1A@ev1.net> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 03:03:53 -0800 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers To: Joe Pfeiffer Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories References: <91sgdc$2sa$1@panix6.panix.com> <91utnr$asj$1@panix2.panix.com> <926pmc$dju$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net> <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <8bno4t42ktj291qmn5l7mrh4615r60vhq9@4ax.com> <92j23q02sb2@edrn.newsguy.com> <1bn1defwus.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu> <3A4DEFDF.3449EA1E@ev1.net> <1b4rzluwqs.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: taydal-207-55-144-217.ev1.net X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 978340060 taydal-207-55-144-217.ev1.net (1 Jan 2001 03:07:40 -0600) Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72008 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > > Charles Richmond writes: > > > But Seymour Cray *deserves* to be more widely know...he is such an > > *interesting* person. > > I agree completely. > > > He worked in some odd locations, including his > > own front porch, and also a warehouse where large rolls of newsprint > > paper were stored. He was dedicated to his craft, and that made a lot > > of his life choices seem quirky. > > Ummmm, several of the Seymour stories I've heard sound pretty strange > regardless of his dedication to his craft (not to disparage that > dedication or brilliance -- I *still* use the CDC 6600 as my primary > example of out-of-order execution in my Computer Architecture class). > The annual sailboat? The basement tunnels? > I read that when buying a new car, Mr. Cray would always buy the one to the right of the entrance door. It saved time... I also read that he did his computer designs on yellow pads with a wooden pencil... But how about if Mr. Cray speaks for himself??? You can find the interview he did with the Smithsonian at: -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: 05 Jan 01 13:48:26 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 15 Message-ID: <470.405T1320T8284989@sky.bus.com> References: <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <92osui$9l5$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <932fjd$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9332lp$lvh$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-907.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72206 In article <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> anonymous@nowhere.you.know (anonymous) writes: >>But then we 'ad to live in a cardboard box in t'road, etc... > >Yeah, I know. We had to watch television by candlelight before >they wired us with electricity :) During a power outage a few weeks ago, I set a kerosene lamp beside my laptop and dialed out using its internal modem. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: jsavard@ecn.ab.SBLOK.ca.nowhere (John Savard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Message-ID: <3a53c9f7.23024476@news.powersurfr.com> References: <91sgdc$2sa$1@panix6.panix.com> <91utnr$asj$1@panix2.panix.com> <926pmc$dju$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net> <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <3a4a6730.7493451@news.powersurfr.com> <92osui$9l5$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 15 Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 00:56:51 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.108.206.34 X-Complaints-To: abuse@powersurfr.com X-Trace: news-rep.ab.videon.ca 978569790 24.108.206.34 (Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:56:30 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:56:30 MST Organization: Videon CableSystems Alberta Inc. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!merapi!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news-rep.ab.videon.ca!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72334 On Mon, 01 Jan 2001 16:18:18 +1300, "Roger Johnstone" wrote, in part: >Old solutions never die, they just find new problems. Some video projectors >using the Texas Instruments DMD (digital micromirror device) still use the >spinning red-green-blue disk to produce a colour image. It's cheaper than >using 3 DMDs. And of course many people remember a much more famous example of the subsequent use of this principle -- the color broadcasts from the Moon used a spinning color disk format, and were scan converted for broadcast on Earth. John Savard http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm ###### From: dochawk@psu.edu Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: 4 Jan 2001 18:32:13 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 19 Message-ID: <932fjd$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <3a4a6730.7493451@news.powersurfr.com> <92osui$9l5$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72228 In article <3a4a6730.7493451@news.powersurfr.com>, jsavard@ecn.ab.SBLOK.ca.nowhere (John Savard) wrote: > I suspect the other Charles is referring not to the Nipkow disk, but > to the CBS incompatible system of color television, where a black and > white TV set, operating on a different standard with a high frame rate > had a spinning disk in front of it divided into red, green, and blue > filter areas. This allowed frame sequential color transmissions. hee-hee. Growing up, I happily found a book about "color television repair," and sat down to read it. This was the system it described . . . I suppose I should have given some thought as to when my grandfather would have acquired such a book :) hawk ###### From: nailed_barnacleSPAMFREE@hotmail.com (barnacle) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:58:47 GMT Organization: BT Internet Lines: 33 Message-ID: <9332lp$lvh$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> References: <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <3a4a6730.7493451@news.powersurfr.com> <92osui$9l5$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <932fjd$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-7-77-174.btinternet.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!193.251.151.101!opentransit.net!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!grolier!btnet-peer0!btnet-peer1!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!egbert Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72368 In article <932fjd$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, dochawk@psu.edu wrote: >In article <3a4a6730.7493451@news.powersurfr.com>, >jsavard@ecn.ab.SBLOK.ca.nowhere (John Savard) wrote: > >> I suspect the other Charles is referring not to the Nipkow disk, but >> to the CBS incompatible system of color television, where a black and >> white TV set, operating on a different standard with a high frame rate >> had a spinning disk in front of it divided into red, green, and blue >> filter areas. This allowed frame sequential color transmissions. > >hee-hee. > >Growing up, I happily found a book about "color television repair," and >sat down to read it. This was the system it described . . . > >I suppose I should have given some thought as to when my grandfather would >have acquired such a book :) > >hawk > Here in the UK in the sixties, a common hack was to stick coloured gels across a mono tv screen - blue at the top, brown in the middle, green at the bottom IIRC to compensate for the lack of an expensive UHF set that could receive BBC2. But then we 'ad to live in a cardboard box in t'road, etc... -- I have a quantum car. Every time I look at the speedometer I get lost... barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk ###### From: anonymous@nowhere.you.know Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: 5 Jan 2001 17:27:45 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 28 Message-ID: <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <92osui$9l5$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <932fjd$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9332lp$lvh$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72223 In article <9332lp$lvh$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>, barnacle wrote: >In article <932fjd$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, dochawk@psu.edu wrote: >Here in the UK in the sixties, a common hack was to stick coloured gels across >a mono tv screen - blue at the top, brown in the middle, green at the bottom >IIRC to compensate for the lack of an expensive UHF set that could receive >BBC2. Gee, that would be great for watching thos emovies where someone holds their breath for an extended period while trying to get out of the mud, complicated by their feet being tangled in seaweed :) My Oddeysy 2 (not squared) video game came with overlays (and was "programmed" with cards having nothing more than wire traces to the edgeconnectors to rearrange the internal circuitry. With a bit of cleverness, you could create other games. For eample, use the skeet-shoot card with the skiing overlay to play "sniper" :) >But then we 'ad to live in a cardboard box in t'road, etc... Yeah, I know. We had to watch television by candlelight before they wired us with electricity :) hawk ###### From: gorilla@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: 6 Jan 2001 02:12:27 GMT Organization: Gorilla & Hamster Zoo of Toronto Lines: 14 Message-ID: <978747135.620069@elaine.furryape.com> References: <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <9332lp$lvh$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <470.405T1320T8284989@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: elaine.furryape.com X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test60 (5 October 1997) Cache-Post-Path: elaine.furryape.com!gorilla@localhost X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.2.1 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!xcski.com!news.onramp.ca!elaine.drink.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72307 In article <470.405T1320T8284989@sky.bus.com>, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >In article <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> anonymous@nowhere.you.know >(anonymous) writes: > >>>But then we 'ad to live in a cardboard box in t'road, etc... >> >>Yeah, I know. We had to watch television by candlelight before >>they wired us with electricity :) > >During a power outage a few weeks ago, I set a kerosene lamp beside >my laptop and dialed out using its internal modem. Not many kerosene lamps come with internal modems. ###### Lines: 21 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: p98mccabe@aol.com (P98McCabe) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 06 Jan 2001 16:24:23 GMT References: <470.405T1320T8284989@sky.bus.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Message-ID: <20010106112423.29637.00001328@ng-cs1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72456 In Message-id: <470.405T1320T8284989@sky.bus.com>, "Charlie Gibbs" cgibbs@sky.bus.com writes: >During a power outage a few weeks ago, I set a kerosene lamp beside >my laptop and dialed out using its internal modem. Danger, Will Robinson! I found out the hard way (living here in the Amish Paradise known as Springboro) that burning Kerosene produces vapor that when condensed on nearby surfaces becomes a sticky (and conductive) gelatinous goop. I'll defer to the hydrocarbon chemists here to explain the exact composition. I keep the Kerosene out of the machine room -- battery operated lamps suffice for that area. Now, let's talk about coal dust... -- Micheal H. McCabe ###### From: jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: 6 Jan 2001 17:15:59 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 8 Message-ID: <937jsf$9vm$1@top.mitre.org> References: <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <92osui$9l5$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <932fjd$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9332lp$lvh$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <470.405T1320T8284989@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 978801359 10230 128.29.251.13 (6 Jan 2001 17:15:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Jan 2001 17:15:59 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72435 "Charlie Gibbs" writes: >During a power outage a few weeks ago, I set a kerosene lamp beside >my laptop and dialed out using its internal modem. I hope you got a picture of that setup! Joe Morris ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: 07 Jan 01 22:40:55 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 25 Message-ID: <793.407T2764T13605677@sky.bus.com> References: <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <9332lp$lvh$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <470.405T1320T8284989@sky.bus.com> <978747135.620069@elaine.furryape.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-044.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72546 In article <978747135.620069@elaine.furryape.com> gorilla@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) writes: >In article <470.405T1320T8284989@sky.bus.com>, >Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >>In article <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> anonymous@nowhere.you.know >>(anonymous) writes: >> >>>>But then we 'ad to live in a cardboard box in t'road, etc... >>> >>>Yeah, I know. We had to watch television by candlelight before >>>they wired us with electricity :) >> >>During a power outage a few weeks ago, I set a kerosene lamp beside >>my laptop and dialed out using its internal modem. > >Not many kerosene lamps come with internal modems. What, you didn't notice the PCMCIA slot in the base? -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### Message-ID: <3A598C36.9EEC8628@ev1.net> Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 01:45:26 -0800 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories References: <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <92osui$9l5$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <932fjd$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9332lp$lvh$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <470.405T1320T8284989@sky.bus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: taydal-207-55-144-196.ev1.net X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 978940210 taydal-207-55-144-196.ev1.net (8 Jan 2001 01:50:10 -0600) Lines: 24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!nwnews.wa.com!nntp2.savvis.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72661 Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > In article <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> anonymous@nowhere.you.know > (anonymous) writes: > > >>But then we 'ad to live in a cardboard box in t'road, etc... > > > >Yeah, I know. We had to watch television by candlelight before > >they wired us with electricity :) > > During a power outage a few weeks ago, I set a kerosene lamp beside > my laptop and dialed out using its internal modem. > There was a saying that if Thomas Edison had *never* lived, we would all be watching television by candle light. Before the LCD screen, this would *not* have been possible...since Edison discovered the fundamental thing that makes vacuum tubes (as a CRT) work...it is called the Edison effect. Edison patented this in the late 1800's, although at the time there was *no* use for it. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: 8 Jan 2001 02:11:49 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 25 Message-ID: <93c3p5027cp@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <470.405T1320T8284989@sky.bus.com> <20010106112423.29637.00001328@ng-cs1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-877.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone0.chicago.il.ameritech.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72574 In article <20010106112423.29637.00001328@ng-cs1.aol.com>, p98mccabe@aol.com says... > > In Message-id: <470.405T1320T8284989@sky.bus.com>, "Charlie Gibbs" >cgibbs@sky.bus.com writes: > >>During a power outage a few weeks ago, I set a kerosene lamp beside >>my laptop and dialed out using its internal modem. > >Danger, Will Robinson! > >I found out the hard way (living here in the Amish Paradise known as >Springboro) that burning Kerosene produces vapor that when condensed on nearby >surfaces becomes a sticky (and conductive) gelatinous goop. I'll defer to the >hydrocarbon chemists here to explain the exact composition. > >I keep the Kerosene out of the machine room -- battery operated lamps suffice >for that area. I also live in an "amish paradise" and I've been using kerosene heaters of many different types for many years, and I've never heard of any vapor emissions of the type you describe. There shouldn't be any vapor whatsoever. I urge you to have your heaters checked, as they may be burning inefficiently and poisoning you with carbon monoxide. I'm not kidding, I'm serious. ###### From: "donald tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:29:30 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 28 Message-ID: <93cg22$o8p$1@news.igs.net> References: <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <9332lp$lvh$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <470.405T1320T8284989@sky.bus.com> <978747135.620069@elaine.furryape.com> <793.407T2764T13605677@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttya17.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 978961282 24857 216.58.99.55 (8 Jan 2001 13:41:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Jan 2001 13:41:22 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!rockie.attcanada.net!newsfeed.attcanada.net!216.58.1.11!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72519 Charlie Gibbs wrote in message <793.407T2764T13605677@sky.bus.com>... >In article <978747135.620069@elaine.furryape.com> >gorilla@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) writes: > >>In article <470.405T1320T8284989@sky.bus.com>, >>Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>>In article <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> anonymous@nowhere.you.know >>>(anonymous) writes: >>> >>>>>But then we 'ad to live in a cardboard box in t'road, etc... >>>> >>>>Yeah, I know. We had to watch television by candlelight before >>>>they wired us with electricity :) >>> >>>During a power outage a few weeks ago, I set a kerosene lamp beside >>>my laptop and dialed out using its internal modem. >> >>Not many kerosene lamps come with internal modems. > >What, you didn't notice the PCMCIA slot in the base? > That's wick it. ###### From: D.J. Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 08:43:14 -0600 Organization: Tycho Crater Ice Cream Parlour, TychoTown Lines: 15 Message-ID: <8ekj5t48ahb9le84s0qtnin876h0fpeb31@4ax.com> References: <470.405T1320T8284989@sky.bus.com> <20010106112423.29637.00001328@ng-cs1.aol.com> Reply-To: djim55@datasync.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-189.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72640 p98mccabe@aol.com (P98McCabe) wrote: []Now, let's talk about coal dust... I supose this would be where Marvin the Martian says something about an Earth-shattering kaboom ? For those who don't know, Marvin is a cartoon character. JimP. -- djim55 at tyhe datasync dot com. Disclaimer: Standard. My Web pages Updated: December 25, 2000: http://www.crosswinds.net/~djim51/updated.html Registered Linux user#185746 ###### Lines: 51 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: p98mccabe@aol.com (P98McCabe) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 08 Jan 2001 15:57:20 GMT References: <93c3p5027cp@edrn.newsguy.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Message-ID: <20010108105720.29643.00001491@ng-cs1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72596 Message-id: <93c3p5027cp@edrn.newsguy.com>, Charles Eicher ceicher@inav.net writes: >I also live in an "amish paradise" and I've been using kerosene heaters >of many >different types for many years, and I've never heard of any vapor emissions >of >the type you describe. There shouldn't be any vapor whatsoever. I urge you >to >have your heaters checked, as they may be burning inefficiently and poisoning >you with carbon monoxide. I'm not kidding, I'm serious. Well, I won't discount the effect of some CO on my brain, but there is certainly another combustion by-product that behaves as I described. I've seen it with both wick type and torpedo style heaters, so I'm not sure it's really a function of the heater's efficiency. It's not quite the "lamp black" produced by a old-stye lamp, either. At your suggestion, I'm conducting an experiment right now to determine some of the characterisics of this goop... I'm starting a wick-type (KeroSun) heater cold. It's filled with #2 Kerosene heating fuel purchased from Kwik-Fill, a service station owned by United Refining Co. (Warren, PA.) The temperature of the kerosene is appx. 38 deg F. The indoor ambient air temperature is 62 deg F. I don't have any means for checking the temperature of the heater's interior. The room is a small storage area, approximately 10 feet by 8 feet with one door leading into the living area and a single window to the outside. There is forced-air natural gas heating with one register (presently closed) into the room. The room is fairly tight, with only a slight draft felt in the middle of the window where the two window casings come together. On starting the heater using the electric igniter, some black smoke is produced -- this black smoke leaves a considerable soot stain on a clear glass plate placed directly above the heater. Another glass plate lying horizontal on the floor (12 inches from the base of the heater) is presently clean, with no residue visible. With the wick control knob in the center operating position, It takes a good 3 minutes from ignition for the catalyst screen inside the heater to begin glowing a uniform "cherry red." At this time, no more black smoke is being produced. A glass plate placed directly (12" over the heater immediately "fogs up" with (apparently) water vapor. No other residue is found. The plate next to the heater remains clean. At this time, the CO level in the room (as sampled by a CO detector I borrowed from the fire dept.) is 3 ppm. I'll let this heater burn for a full tank of fuel and report back later today. --- Micheal H. McCabe ###### From: "Geoffrey G. Rochat" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:16:29 -0500 Organization: Budget Internet Lines: 23 Sender: newservice@07-144.024.popsite.net Message-ID: <93crtt$rbc$1@news.chatlink.com> References: <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <92osui$9l5$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <932fjd$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9332lp$lvh$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 07-144.024.popsite.net X-Trace: news.chatlink.com 978973437 28012 216.126.161.144 (8 Jan 2001 17:03:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@chatlink.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Jan 2001 17:03:57 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!209.249.123.233.MISMATCH!xfer10.netnews.com!netnews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.mesh.ad.jp!sjc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!news-west.eli.net!news.chatlink.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72595 If you're interested in mechanical television, grab hold of a copy of "Experimental Television" by A. Frederick Collins, originally published in 1932. It was reprinted by Lindsay Publications ( www.lindsaybks.com ) in 1991, ISBN 1-55918-079-X. It tells you all about how to make your own scanning disks, how to achieve synchrony - all sorts of "practical" stuff. If you're interested in the technical history of television in general, go read "Tube, The Invention of Television" by David E. Fisher and Marshall Jon Fisher, published in 1996 by Counterpoint, ISBN 1-997178-17-1. It's part of the Sloan Technology Series. If you want to see an actual mechanical television, though regrettably not in operating condition, check out the New England Museum of Wireless and Steam in East Greenwich, RI ( http://users.ids.net/~newsm/ ). The assortment of items on display is spectacular. And bear in mind that the color TV cameras taken aboard Apollo to the Moon used spinning color wheels, similar to the sequential color system backed by Peter C. Goldmark at CBS Laboratories, before RCA beat 'em with their all-electronic system. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: 8 Jan 2001 17:44:46 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 15 Message-ID: <93cuae$bnh$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <92osui$9l5$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <932fjd$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9332lp$lvh$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <93crtt$rbc$1@news.chatlink.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 978975886 12017 134.117.136.30 (8 Jan 2001 17:44:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Jan 2001 17:44:46 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72607 "Geoffrey G. Rochat" (geoff.nospam@nospam.pkworks.com) writes: > ... > And bear in mind that the color TV cameras taken aboard Apollo to the > Moon used spinning color wheels, similar to the sequential color system > backed by Peter C. Goldmark at CBS Laboratories, before RCA beat 'em > with their all-electronic system. Given that the moon, (with the exception of the LEM, US flag and The Blue Marble in the sky), was pretty much black, grey and white I'd say that colour was overkill. B-) ###### Lines: 84 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: p98mccabe@aol.com (P98McCabe) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 09 Jan 2001 03:32:00 GMT References: <20010108105720.29643.00001491@ng-cs1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Message-ID: <20010108223200.19539.00000665@ng-xc1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72597 Sorry to quote my own post. This is a follow-up to my earlier message. In Message-id: <20010108105720.29643.00001491@ng-cs1.aol.com>, p98mccabe@aol.com (P98McCabe) wrote: >Message-id: <93c3p5027cp@edrn.newsguy.com>, Charles Eicher ceicher@inav.net >writes: > >>I also live in an "amish paradise" and I've been using kerosene heaters >>of many >>different types for many years, and I've never heard of any vapor emissions >>of >>the type you describe. There shouldn't be any vapor whatsoever. I urge you >>to >>have your heaters checked, as they may be burning inefficiently and >poisoning >>you with carbon monoxide. I'm not kidding, I'm serious. > >Well, I won't discount the effect of some CO on my brain, but there is >certainly another combustion by-product that behaves as I described. I've >seen >it with both wick type and torpedo style heaters, so I'm not sure it's really >a >function of the heater's efficiency. It's not quite the "lamp black" >produced >by a old-stye lamp, either. > >At your suggestion, I'm conducting an experiment right now to determine some >of >the characterisics of this goop... > >I'm starting a wick-type (KeroSun) heater cold. It's filled with #2 Kerosene >heating fuel purchased from Kwik-Fill, a service station owned by United >Refining Co. (Warren, PA.) The temperature of the kerosene is appx. 38 deg >F. >The indoor ambient air temperature is 62 deg F. I don't have any means for >checking the temperature of the heater's interior. The room is a small >storage >area, approximately 10 feet by 8 feet with one door leading into the living >area and a single window to the outside. There is forced-air natural gas >heating with one register (presently closed) into the room. The room is >fairly >tight, with only a slight draft felt in the middle of the window where the >two >window casings come together. > >On starting the heater using the electric igniter, some black smoke is >produced >-- this black smoke leaves a considerable soot stain on a clear glass plate >placed directly above the heater. Another glass plate lying horizontal on >the >floor (12 inches from the base of the heater) is presently clean, with no >residue visible. With the wick control knob in the center operating >position, >It takes a good 3 minutes from ignition for the catalyst screen inside the >heater to begin glowing a uniform "cherry red." At this time, no more black >smoke is being produced. A glass plate placed directly (12" over the heater >immediately "fogs up" with (apparently) water vapor. No other residue is >found. The plate next to the heater remains clean. > >At this time, the CO level in the room (as sampled by a CO detector I >borrowed >from the fire dept.) is 3 ppm. > >I'll let this heater burn for a full tank of fuel and report back later >today. OK. The heater burned out at appx. 9:45 pm EST. The temperature in the room is 90 deg F. The outdoor temperature is 23 deg F. Checking the glass plate that was positioned on the floor next to the heater, I find a very slight yellow film that feels somewhat sticky to the touch. Some dust has also settled on the plate and cannot be blown away due (apparently) to adhesion with the yellow gunk. Testing the surface with a multimeter shows infinite resistance -- I may have been in error as to its conductive properties. The CO level in the room is now 9 ppm, higher than expected but not unusual for an enclosed area heated by Kerosene. Respectfully submitted, --- Micheal H. McCabe ###### From: "Roger Johnstone" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:53:10 +1300 Organization: ihug ( New Zealand ) Lines: 39 Message-ID: <93e90f$m3$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> References: <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <92osui$9l5$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <932fjd$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9332lp$lvh$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <93crtt$rbc$1@news.chatlink.com> <93cuae$bnh$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: p58-max1.inv.ihug.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: lust.ihug.co.nz 979019600 707 203.173.222.186 (9 Jan 2001 05:53:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@ihug.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 05:53:20 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!lust.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72531 ---------- In article <93cuae$bnh$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>, ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) wrote: > "Geoffrey G. Rochat" (geoff.nospam@nospam.pkworks.com) writes: >> > ... >> And bear in mind that the color TV cameras taken aboard Apollo to the >> Moon used spinning color wheels, similar to the sequential color system >> backed by Peter C. Goldmark at CBS Laboratories, before RCA beat 'em >> with their all-electronic system. > > Given that the moon, (with the exception of the LEM, US flag and The > Blue Marble in the sky), was pretty much black, grey and white I'd > say that colour was overkill. > > B-) The first pictures sent back from the Viking lander showed a blue sky, which caused a lot of excitement until it was realised that the colour balance was way out of whack. Part of the problem was that the colour test bars on the lander were covered in red dust from the landing. The Mars Pathfinder lander used RGB filters to capture colour images too, in stereo! -- Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand Apple II - Future Cop:LAPD - Warcraft II http://homepage.mac.com/rojaws ______________________________________________________________________ from the Red Dwarf VIII episode "Cassandra" Rimmer: In the 19th century when miners went down a pit they'd lower a canary down first in a little cage. Lister: What and make them do some mining? They were sick in the 19th century weren't they eh? I mean how much coal can a little canary get? ###### From: "Paul Grayson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:01:19 -0000 Organization: Customer of Energis Squared Lines: 18 Message-ID: <93euc1$4in$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net> References: <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <92osui$9l5$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <932fjd$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <9332lp$lvh$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <93506h$14po@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <93crtt$rbc$1@news.chatlink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host94.bjss.co.uk X-Trace: newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net 979041473 4695 194.152.80.94 (9 Jan 2001 11:57:53 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Jan 2001 11:57:53 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72508 news:93crtt$rbc$1@news.chatlink.com... > If you're interested in mechanical television, grab hold of a copy of > "Experimental Television" by A. Frederick Collins, originally published > in 1932. It was reprinted by Lindsay Publications > ( www.lindsaybks.com ) in 1991, ISBN 1-55918-079-X. It tells you all > about how to make your own scanning disks, how to achieve synchrony - > all sorts of "practical" stuff. > There's a BBC television programme called Local Heroes, where the presenter travells around the country recreating experiments and inventions of the past, sometimes using improvised materials. In one example he re-created a mechanical television. LP records with holes made up the disks, with a photocell and lamp circuit to act as the transmission system. Syncronisation was performed manually. But it worked. ###### From: John Stott Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical Television (was: stupid user stories Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 11:11:11 -0600 Organization: UW-Madison Synchrotron Radiation Center Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <91sgdc$2sa$1@panix6.panix.com> <91utnr$asj$1@panix2.panix.com> <926pmc$dju$1@saltmine.radix.net> <3A495A48.AA3F5FE@ev1.net> <92bnmu01kno@edrn.newsguy.com> <8bno4t42ktj291qmn5l7mrh4615r60vhq9@4ax.com> <92j23q02sb2@edrn.newsguy.com> <1bn1defwus.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu> <3A4DEFDF.3449EA1E@ev1.net> <1b4rzluwqs.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu> <3A50641A.2346BC1A@ev1.net> Reply-To: jpstott@src.wisc.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: dns226.krc.wisc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.doit.wisc.edu 979060271 28556 144.92.249.226 (9 Jan 2001 17:11:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@doit.wisc.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Jan 2001 17:11:11 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsspool.doit.wisc.edu!news.doit.wisc.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72647 Charles Richmond wrote: > I also read that >he did his computer designs on yellow pads with a wooden pencil... There was the quote when Apple announced that they had bought a Cray to design Macintoshes that Cray used a Macintosh to design Crays... -- John P. Stott jpstott@src.wisc.edu Synchrotron Radiation Center http://www.src.wisc.edu University of Wisconsin-Madison http://www.wisc.edu