From: "Don Chiasson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Vintage computer ads Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 09:18:19 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 16 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71372 On slashdot, I saw a pointer to a site that has a collection of vintage (80's, that is) computer ads: http://www.sbrowning.com/ Some are fun to look at. Sigh, I liked my Colecovision. (Yes, I know it's not a computer, but....) Don ###### From: lwinson@bbs.cpcn.com (lwin) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 24 Dec 2000 18:52:35 GMT Organization: The PACSIBM SIG BBS Lines: 1 Message-ID: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bbs.cpcn.com Originator: root@bbs.cpcn.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!news-xfer.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!netaxs.newsread.com!bbs.cpcn.com!root Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71433 The really good ads are from the 1960s and 1950s. ###### From: rmonagha@smu.edu (Robert Monaghan) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers Date: 24 Dec 2000 17:13:58 -0600 Organization: Southern Methodist University Lines: 18 Message-ID: <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: post.cis.smu.edu X-Trace: hermes.seas.smu.edu 977699649 23028 129.119.64.23 (24 Dec 2000 23:14:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@seas.smu.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Dec 2000 23:14:09 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lmu.de!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.smu.edu!smu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71414 my vote goes to the 1970s ads, esp. pre-mass production S100 and similar ads; was it cromenco ad that had an S100 system with 1 megabyte of memory with 16 users in white lab coats timesharing on the one megahertz clock Z80 microprocessor, plus each user had their own dumb terminal etc. etc. then again, the software ads make you want to cry, check out appleworks and what they shoehorned into 128k Mac compared to microsoft's current offerings, which take 120+ megabytes and need 16 megabytes to run in limited mode ;-) ;-) grins bobm see http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/4004.html and computers.html for oldies -- * Robert Monaghan POB752182 Dallas Tx 75275-2182 rmonagha@mail.smu.edu * * Third Party 35mm Lenses: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/third/index.html * * Medium Format Cameras: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/index.html megasite* ###### From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 24 Dec 2000 17:18:21 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 13 Message-ID: <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-781.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71478 In article <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu>, rmonagha@smu.edu says... > >..was it cromenco ad that had an S100 system with 1 megabyte of memory >with 16 users in white lab coats timesharing on the one megahertz clock >Z80 microprocessor, plus each user had their own dumb terminal etc. etc. S-100 systems couldn't address more than 64k of RAM. These were 8 bit processors, ferchrissake. The clock speed of the Z80 was 2Mhz. I lusted after a big Cromemco box in those days, and devoured any article or advertisement with info on their machines. I don't recall seeing any ads of the type you describe. I would remember it if I'd seen it. ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 25 Dec 2000 02:26:16 GMT Organization: Neosoft (using Airnews.net!) Lines: 7 Message-ID: X-Orig-Message-ID: References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1-aux.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Sun Dec 24 20:26:16 2000 NNTP-Posting-Host: !dOMd1k-W`*(@'m (Encoded at Airnews!) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news-out.nntp.airnews.net.MISMATCH!cabal10.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal14.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!jmaynard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71465 On 24 Dec 2000 17:18:21 -0800, Charles Eicher wrote: >S-100 systems couldn't address more than 64k of RAM. These were 8 bit >processors, ferchrissake. The clock speed of the Z80 was 2Mhz. Two words: bank switching. MP/M supported (if not required) it, and ISTR Cromix (Cromemco's Unixoid system) did so as well (though I never had the chance to play with it). ###### From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 24 Dec 2000 19:58:22 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 20 Message-ID: <926gku02qlu@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-987.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71502 In article , jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx says... > >On 24 Dec 2000 17:18:21 -0800, Charles Eicher wrote: >>S-100 systems couldn't address more than 64k of RAM. These were 8 bit >>processors, ferchrissake. The clock speed of the Z80 was 2Mhz. > >Two words: bank switching. MP/M supported (if not required) it, and ISTR >Cromix (Cromemco's Unixoid system) did so as well (though I never had the >chance to play with it). Hmm.. I used MP/M, most notably I did tech support and repairs for Vector Graphic MP/M systems, but I never noticed any support for over 64k. But then, in those days, 64k seemed extravagant. I dunno, maybe I have forgotten more about these systems than I realize. I wonder what a meg of ram would have cost back in those days? I spent about $500 each on two 16k RAM boards in 1975, I can't even conceive of someone buying a meg at those prices. ###### From: Michael Umbricht Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 10:48:51 -0500 Organization: Ocean State Free-Net Message-ID: <3A476C63.5B512293@shrimp.osfn.org> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4c) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!telocity-west!TELOCITY!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71490 Although this is a later machine... the DEC Rainbow 100+ has a maximum of 896KB RAM. (with three banks of 256 on an expansion card.) It can run MS-DOS or Concurrent CP/M-86. The motherboard has both a Mostek Z80A and an Intel 8088, which are both used by a "hybrid" version of CP/M called CP/M-86/80. -mikeu http://www.osfn.org/rcs/ Jay Maynard wrote: > > On 24 Dec 2000 17:18:21 -0800, Charles Eicher wrote: > >S-100 systems couldn't address more than 64k of RAM. These were 8 bit > >processors, ferchrissake. The clock speed of the Z80 was 2Mhz. > > Two words: bank switching. MP/M supported (if not required) it, and ISTR > Cromix (Cromemco's Unixoid system) did so as well (though I never had the > chance to play with it). ###### From: "donald tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 13:34:49 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 21 Message-ID: <92871q$5gk$1@news.igs.net> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttya17.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 977772410 5652 216.58.99.55 (25 Dec 2000 19:26:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Dec 2000 19:26:50 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!rockie.attcanada.net!newsfeed.attcanada.net!216.58.1.11!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71441 The S100 bus was quite able to handle both 1 meg and multiple users. MP/M-86 was quite a good little OS. Charles Eicher wrote in message <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com>... >In article <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu>, rmonagha@smu.edu says... >> >>..was it cromenco ad that had an S100 system with 1 megabyte of memory >>with 16 users in white lab coats timesharing on the one megahertz clock >>Z80 microprocessor, plus each user had their own dumb terminal etc. etc. > >S-100 systems couldn't address more than 64k of RAM. These were 8 bit >processors, ferchrissake. The clock speed of the Z80 was 2Mhz. > >I lusted after a big Cromemco box in those days, and devoured any article or >advertisement with info on their machines. I don't recall seeing any ads of the >type you describe. I would remember it if I'd seen it. > ###### From: Bruce Tomlin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 23:13:29 -0600 Organization: San Antonio, TX Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nukunuku.fanboy.net X-Trace: news.jump.net 977807476 5914 207.8.48.140 (26 Dec 2000 05:11:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.jump.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 05:11:16 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-feeds.jump.net!news2!bruceNS+usenet3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71608 In article , jmaynard@conmicro.cx wrote: > On 24 Dec 2000 17:18:21 -0800, Charles Eicher wrote: > >S-100 systems couldn't address more than 64k of RAM. These were 8 bit > >processors, ferchrissake. The clock speed of the Z80 was 2Mhz. > > Two words: bank switching. MP/M supported (if not required) it, and ISTR > Cromix (Cromemco's Unixoid system) did so as well (though I never had the > chance to play with it). And my very first job in 1981-1982 was working on one of those three-CPU Ohio Scientific Challenger machines. The three CPUs weren't a multi-processor arrangement like we use today. They were a 6502, a Z-80, and a 6809. Of which you could only use one at any given time AFAIK. This particular system ran BASIC on the 6502, and supported two users, each of which had their own 48K RAM card. The other 16K was shared space in which the "operating system" (MS-BASIC with a few extensions) resided. ###### From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 26 Dec 2000 03:15:52 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 30 Message-ID: <929ul801gku@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> <92871q$5gk$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-294.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lmu.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71499 In article <92871q$5gk$1@news.igs.net>, "donald says... > >The S100 bus was quite able to handle both 1 meg and multiple users. >MP/M-86 was quite a good little OS. Here we go again. S-100 cannot address more than16bits of memory addresses. The bus only has 16 data address bits. Bank switching may allow you to access more than 64k of RAM, but only 64k at a time. All programs are limited to the 64k address space. > >Charles Eicher wrote in message <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com>... >>In article <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu>, rmonagha@smu.edu says... >>> >>>..was it cromenco ad that had an S100 system with 1 megabyte of memory >>>with 16 users in white lab coats timesharing on the one megahertz clock >>>Z80 microprocessor, plus each user had their own dumb terminal etc. etc. >> >>S-100 systems couldn't address more than 64k of RAM. These were 8 bit >>processors, ferchrissake. The clock speed of the Z80 was 2Mhz. >> >>I lusted after a big Cromemco box in those days, and devoured any article >or >>advertisement with info on their machines. I don't recall seeing any ads of >the >>type you describe. I would remember it if I'd seen it. >> > > ###### From: rmonagha@smu.edu (Robert Monaghan) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers Date: 26 Dec 2000 20:20:05 -0600 Organization: Southern Methodist University Lines: 22 Message-ID: <92bjkl$2k8$1@post.cis.smu.edu> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> <92871q$5gk$1@news.igs.net> <929ul801gku@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: post.cis.smu.edu X-Trace: hermes.seas.smu.edu 977883606 25945 129.119.64.23 (27 Dec 2000 02:20:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@seas.smu.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Dec 2000 02:20:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!crtntx1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!news-feeds.jump.net!news.tamu.edu!news.smu.edu!smu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71489 sort of depends on your view of bank switching and software/hardware bit extensions, I guess. It is pretty handy to have data in one 64k segment and software or ROMs in another etc., and you can run larger programs using overlays and divided block designs. From the users viewpoint, the programs in RAM could be much larger than 64k, however addressed or swapped about with logic hardware and software - the trick was keeping track of it all and recovering unneeded RAM etc. for that matter, the 8088 had a rather clumsy segmented architecture, the result of a committee decision as you might expect per the manuals for A86/D86 assembler by one of their consultants, and it was basically a 64k block size with segment switching with definable boundaries etc. as for the S100 bus, IIRC some of the undefined "extra" pins were later defined as address extension pins for some bank switching designs, but whether these proprietary extensions were ever incorporated into a later S100 bus ANSI standard or not, I don't know (too pricey to buy later standards ;-)... ;-) -- * Robert Monaghan POB752182 Dallas Tx 75275-2182 rmonagha@mail.smu.edu * * Third Party 35mm Lenses: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/third/index.html * * Medium Format Cameras: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/index.html megasite* ###### From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 26 Dec 2000 19:46:06 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 33 Message-ID: <92bolu022j@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> <92871q$5gk$1@news.igs.net> <929ul801gku@edrn.newsguy.com> <92bjkl$2k8$1@post.cis.smu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-338.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone0.chicago.il.ameritech.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71487 In article <92bjkl$2k8$1@post.cis.smu.edu>, rmonagha@smu.edu says... > >sort of depends on your view of bank switching and software/hardware bit >extensions, I guess. It is pretty handy to have data in one 64k segment >and software or ROMs in another etc., and you can run larger programs >using overlays and divided block designs. From the users viewpoint, the >programs in RAM could be much larger than 64k, however addressed or >swapped about with logic hardware and software - the trick was keeping >track of it all and recovering unneeded RAM etc. From the user's viewpoint, maybe, but definitely not from the programmer's viewpoint. You just can't address more than 16 bits of address space with only 16 bits of address data. >for that matter, the 8088 had a rather clumsy segmented architecture, the >result of a committee decision as you might expect per the manuals for >A86/D86 assembler by one of their consultants, and it was basically a 64k >block size with segment switching with definable boundaries etc. Right. And implementations like the IBM PC had absolutely TERRIBLE implementations of bank switching in the early units. It took a long time to get this straightened out so programs could more easily address more than 64k. >as for the S100 bus, IIRC some of the undefined "extra" pins were later >defined as address extension pins for some bank switching designs, but >whether these proprietary extensions were ever incorporated into a later >S100 bus ANSI standard or not, I don't know (too pricey to buy later >standards ;-)... ;-) A variant on the S-100 bus, IEEE-696, supported 24 bit addresses. None of the ad hoc bank switching arrangements using the unassigned bus lines were official standards. ###### From: "donald tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:32:47 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 42 Message-ID: <92damu$pk2$1@news.igs.net> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> <92871q$5gk$1@news.igs.net> <929ul801gku@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttya15.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 977939998 26242 216.58.99.53 (27 Dec 2000 17:59:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Dec 2000 17:59:58 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!rockie.attcanada.net!newsfeed.attcanada.net!216.58.1.11!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71613 Nonsense. The full 8086 was implemented on several that I had, and could be used by changing the base registers. I do not believe that over 640k was implemented without bank switching, but the first 640k certainly was. Charles Eicher wrote in message <929ul801gku@edrn.newsguy.com>... >In article <92871q$5gk$1@news.igs.net>, "donald says... >> >>The S100 bus was quite able to handle both 1 meg and multiple users. >>MP/M-86 was quite a good little OS. > >Here we go again. S-100 cannot address more than16bits of memory addresses. The >bus only has 16 data address bits. Bank switching may allow you to access more >than 64k of RAM, but only 64k at a time. All programs are limited to the 64k >address space. > >> >>Charles Eicher wrote in message <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com>... >>>In article <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu>, rmonagha@smu.edu says... >>>> >>>>..was it cromenco ad that had an S100 system with 1 megabyte of memory >>>>with 16 users in white lab coats timesharing on the one megahertz clock >>>>Z80 microprocessor, plus each user had their own dumb terminal etc. etc. >>> >>>S-100 systems couldn't address more than 64k of RAM. These were 8 bit >>>processors, ferchrissake. The clock speed of the Z80 was 2Mhz. >>> >>>I lusted after a big Cromemco box in those days, and devoured any article >>or >>>advertisement with info on their machines. I don't recall seeing any ads of >>the >>>type you describe. I would remember it if I'd seen it. >>> >> >> > ###### From: Jim Stewart Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:12:01 -0800 Organization: http://www.jkmicro.com Lines: 30 Message-ID: <9C3D910D0574E200.EAFF8C70B3007F14.2AE193DC70FA9A9B@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: <3A4A22E1.EF15DDEA@jkmicro.com> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> <92871q$5gk$1@news.igs.net> <929ul801gku@edrn.newsguy.com> <92bjkl$2k8$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92bolu022j@edrn.newsguy.com> Reply-To: jstewart@jkmicro.com Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library2.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Wed Dec 27 11:09:20 2000 NNTP-Posting-Host: !Z$,.1k-Y4[oC'e&7g-9(LqNs (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!cabal10.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal2.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71461 Charles Eicher wrote: > > In article <92bjkl$2k8$1@post.cis.smu.edu>, rmonagha@smu.edu says... > > > >sort of depends on your view of bank switching and software/hardware bit > >extensions, I guess. It is pretty handy to have data in one 64k segment > >and software or ROMs in another etc., and you can run larger programs > >using overlays and divided block designs. From the users viewpoint, the > >programs in RAM could be much larger than 64k, however addressed or > >swapped about with logic hardware and software - the trick was keeping > >track of it all and recovering unneeded RAM etc. > > From the user's viewpoint, maybe, but definitely not from the programmer's > viewpoint. You just can't address more than 16 bits of address space with only > 16 bits of address data. > > >for that matter, the 8088 had a rather clumsy segmented architecture, the > >result of a committee decision as you might expect per the manuals for > >A86/D86 assembler by one of their consultants, and it was basically a 64k > >block size with segment switching with definable boundaries etc. > > Right. And implementations like the IBM PC had absolutely TERRIBLE > implementations of bank switching in the early units. It took a long time to get > this straightened out so programs could more easily address more than 64k. The early PCs, and by this I mean before the various 640K+ addressing schemes came along, did not use *any* sort of bank switching hardware except for the pathetic DMA page register. There was nothing to keep programs from using all 640k of memory if the programmer was willing to use the segment registers. ###### From: "Timo Weggen" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 12:14:24 +0100 Organization: cybernoia Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> Reply-To: tweggen@cybernoia.de NNTP-Posting-Host: handi6-212-144-180-021.arcor-ip.net (212.144.180.21) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 978001821 6965003 212.144.180.21 (16 [67566]) User-Agent: Pan/0.9.2 (Unix) X-No-Productlinks: Yes Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!handi6-212-144-180-021.arcor-ip.NET!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71629 In article <925glj$do@netaxs.com>, "lwin" wrote: > The really good ads are from the 1960s and 1950s. I remember at least two excellent ads from the 80's and 90's: (And please, dont understand me wrong, I dont wanna promote Apple) 1) TV Spot: Apple 1984: Introducing the Macintosh The Big Brother 1984 one, with the voice saying something like: On January 21st, Apple will introduce Macintosh. And you will see, why 1984 will not be like 1984. 2) Two page ad in DDJ, Apple (again) 1995 if I remember it right: Where do you want to go today? Good question, Microsoft, but what about tommorow? Finnaly, Windows 95 introduces some of the features, Apple introduced in 1984. Maybe I dont know many ads, but I adore these... Timo ###### From: Michael Umbricht Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 06:30:35 -0500 Organization: Ocean State Free-Net Message-ID: <3A4B245B.3B613CB9@shrimp.osfn.org> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4c) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 14 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.online.be!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71645 On the Rainbow the Z80A handles floppy disk I/O and the 8088 services the rest of the devices. With CP/M-86/80 a user could run either 8-bit or 16-bit applications and CP/M would execute the program on the appropriate CPU. But only one of the processors would be executing an application at a time. -mikeu Bruce Tomlin wrote: > > And my very first job in 1981-1982 was working on one of those three-CPU Ohio > Scientific Challenger machines. The three CPUs weren't a multi-processor > arrangement like we use today. They were a 6502, a Z-80, and a 6809. Of > which you could only use one at any given time AFAIK. ###### From: jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 28 Dec 2000 14:55:29 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 18 Message-ID: <92fk91$5fq$1@top.mitre.org> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> <926gku02qlu@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 978015329 5626 128.29.251.13 (28 Dec 2000 14:55:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Dec 2000 14:55:29 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG!jcmorris Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71687 Charles Eicher writes: >I wonder what a meg of ram would have cost back in those days? I spent about >$500 each on two 16k RAM boards in 1975, I can't even conceive of someone buying >a meg at those prices. Data point: One of my standard lecture stories was buying a quarter meg of 600 nsec memory in 1969. After the dicount for being an educational institution, we had to pay only about $330,000 (in 1969 dollars). The 256 KB of memory (ferrite core, of course) required a box about 6' high, 7' long, and 30" wide, and took 208 V 3-phase power. This was requried for *each* 256 KB box on the system. (The memory itself was a cube about 9" on a side). Joe Morris ###### From: "Don Chiasson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:36:54 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> <926gku02qlu@edrn.newsguy.com> <92fk91$5fq$1@top.mitre.org> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 40 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71709 Joe Morris wrote in message <92fk91$5fq$1@top.mitre.org>... >Charles Eicher writes: > >>I wonder what a meg of ram would have cost back in those days? I spent about >>$500 each on two 16k RAM boards in 1975, I can't even conceive of someone buying >>a meg at those prices. >Data point: >One of my standard lecture stories was buying a quarter meg of 600 nsec >memory in 1969. After the dicount for being an educational institution, >we had to pay only about $330,000 (in 1969 dollars). > >The 256 KB of memory (ferrite core, of course) required a box about >6' high, 7' long, and 30" wide, and took 208 V 3-phase power. This >was requried for *each* 256 KB box on the system. (The memory itself >was a cube about 9" on a side). > Further data points: Somewhere around there, perhaps a bit earlier, I bought memory (core) for a Honeywell 316 minicomputer. Four K words, i.e. 8 K bytes cost $4K, that corresponds to about $0.5M per megabyte. The machine could hold a maximum of 64K bytes. A 4k word memory unit was *about* 4" x 4" x 12". Around 1980, buying 1M byte (OK, 256k words) for a DEC-20, cost $50k or so, quite a drop. That was (I think) just before solid state memory took over. Don ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 28 Dec 2000 16:43:25 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 40 Message-ID: <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: u1.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!news.voicenet.com!newsin.iconnet.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u1.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71699 Robert Monaghan wrote: : my vote goes to the 1970s ads, esp. pre-mass production S100 and similar : ads; was it cromenco ad that had an S100 system with 1 megabyte of memory : with 16 users in white lab coats timesharing on the one megahertz clock : Z80 microprocessor, plus each user had their own dumb terminal etc. etc. Are you sure that wasn't a 4MHz clock on that Z-80? Anyway, your point is well taken. The lab coats are the best part, IMO. : then again, the software ads make you want to cry, check out appleworks : and what they shoehorned into 128k Mac compared to microsoft's current : offerings, which take 120+ megabytes and need 16 megabytes to run in : limited mode ;-) ;-) : grins bobm : see http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/4004.html and computers.html for oldies Nice sites! I especially liked the write up on all the early computers. One question though, wasn't the "techno-turkey" from Technico, or was Technobyte and Technico both manufacturers of systems that used the TI-9900? I took a microcomputer class (actually two) at the University of Maryland back in the late 70s. Part of the class was building a system. A Technico rep came in early in the semester and made a number of sales. Already having a SWTPC 6800 (I see you are a fan also) I teamed up with others to help the one guy in our group who ended up buying the Technico kit. Another guy in the group was the proud owner of Polymorphics 88 that was as loaded as any that I had ever seen. Anyway, I hadn't heard of Technobyte prior to having read your web site. Technically, the Technico system was a single board computer like the Kim-1. Eric : -- : * Robert Monaghan POB752182 Dallas Tx 75275-2182 rmonagha@mail.smu.edu * : * Third Party 35mm Lenses: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/third/index.html * : * Medium Format Cameras: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/index.html megasite* ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 28 Dec 2000 17:42:43 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 38 Message-ID: <92fu2j$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: u1.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!209.249.123.233.MISMATCH!xfer10.netnews.com!netnews.com!newsin.iconnet.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u1.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71696 Bruce Tomlin wrote: : In article : , : jmaynard@conmicro.cx wrote: : > On 24 Dec 2000 17:18:21 -0800, Charles Eicher wrote: : > >S-100 systems couldn't address more than 64k of RAM. These were 8 bit : > >processors, ferchrissake. The clock speed of the Z80 was 2Mhz. : > : > Two words: bank switching. MP/M supported (if not required) it, and ISTR : > Cromix (Cromemco's Unixoid system) did so as well (though I never had the : > chance to play with it). : And my very first job in 1981-1982 was working on one of those three-CPU Ohio : Scientific Challenger machines. The three CPUs weren't a multi-processor : arrangement like we use today. They were a 6502, a Z-80, and a 6809. Of : which you could only use one at any given time AFAIK. Are you sure the 680x constingent was the 6809 and not the 6800? Who would have needed anything other than a 6809 had it been the case? See Robert Monaghan's site: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/computers.html for details. : This particular system ran BASIC on the 6502, and supported two users, each : of which had their own 48K RAM card. The other 16K was shared space in which : the "operating system" (MS-BASIC with a few extensions) resided. I guess they would have needed a 6502 as OSI was 6502-based initially. So they would need that for compatibility. I guess the Z-80 was needed for CP/M. Had the third chip been a 6809 then the real evolution of the 6502 for compatibity, running CP/M on the Z-80 to be handed off to OS/9 for the 6809; it would have been a truely marvelous thing. I'm not here to bad mouth the 6800 as I was weaned on that chip, but seeing the possibilities of the OSI C3P having had a 6809 instead of 6800 is no less than astounding. Eric ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 28 Dec 2000 17:51:37 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 16 Message-ID: <92fuj9$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92678t025gl@edrn.newsguy.com> <92871q$5gk$1@news.igs.net> <929ul801gku@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: u1.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u1.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71697 Charles Eicher wrote: : In article <92871q$5gk$1@news.igs.net>, "donald says... : > : >The S100 bus was quite able to handle both 1 meg and multiple users. : >MP/M-86 was quite a good little OS. : Here we go again. S-100 cannot address more than16bits of memory addresses. The : bus only has 16 data address bits. Bank switching may allow you to access more : than 64k of RAM, but only 64k at a time. All programs are limited to the 64k : address space. Didn't the original S-100 design have something like 15 pins unused? If so, couldn't those unused pins have been used to increase the address space by 4 to get the 1MB addressing? IBM managed it with a 62 pin bus. Eric ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 28 Dec 2000 18:15:27 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 26 Message-ID: <92fvvv$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: u1.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.axxsys.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u1.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71703 Timo Weggen wrote: : In article <925glj$do@netaxs.com>, "lwin" wrote: : : > The really good ads are from the 1960s and 1950s. : : I remember at least two excellent ads from the 80's and 90's: : (And please, dont understand me wrong, I dont wanna promote Apple) : : 1) TV Spot: : Apple 1984: Introducing the Macintosh The Big Brother 1984 one, : with the voice saying something like: On January 21st, Apple will : introduce Macintosh. And you will see, why 1984 will not be like : 1984. : 2) Two page ad in DDJ, Apple (again) 1995 if I remember it right: : Where do you want to go today? Good question, Microsoft, but what : about tommorow? Finnaly, Windows 95 introduces some of the : features, Apple introduced in 1984. : : Maybe I dont know many ads, but I adore these... Yes, those were good ones. But speaking about Dr. Dobbs Journal (DDJ), how about their original covers back in the mid to late 70s? Who could forget the full title of their mag, 'Dr. Dobbs Journal of Computer, Calisthenics and Orthodontia: "Running Light, Without Overbyte?"' Eric ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 28 Dec 2000 22:33:16 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 47 Message-ID: <6u4rzoz0wz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 978039196 1352 10.0.3.2 (28 Dec 2000 21:33:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Dec 2000 21:33:16 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71716 Eric Chomko writes: > Robert Monaghan wrote: > > : see http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/4004.html and computers.html for oldies > > Nice sites! I especially liked the write up on all the early computers. > > One question though, And another question. 4004.html claims: ---------- Most people are surprised to learn that the first microcomputer, the 4004, was a complete failure in meeting its design goals! The 4004 was simply too slow (at over 10 microseconds per instruction) and too limited (with only 4 bit word size) to perform its original purpose as the heart of a "smart" computer terminal. The Japanese corporation that financed the development of the new microprocessor technology abandoned the project. ---------- IMHO this looks like an extremely mangled version of 2 different stories, the 4004 and the 8008. AFAIK The 4bit 4004 came from work by Intel for Busicom, making chips for an _desk_calculator_, not an terminal. A terminal was for an second project for Datapoint and resulted in the 8bit 8008. Also the 4004 was _up_to_ its intended job (4bit is enough for BCD calculations and 4k*4 RAM enough for an calculator), but Busicom could not pay for the job due to financial trouble. So Intel offered them to waive the costs, if Intel recieves the right sell the chip to anyone and so try to recuperate its development costs. So the Japanese did not finance it, Intel paid the R&D from its own (small) pockets. Busicoms input was to get Intel to do something (develop and market an processor) that it would have never risked to do without them. Above version is from an interview with one of its designers (Faggin) in Byte 92-3. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:14:00 GMT Organization: Dragonhill Systems Ltd Message-ID: <978041640snz@dsl.co.uk> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u4rzoz0wz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 978048321 mail2news:8451 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!dsl.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.31 Lines: 28 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71779 In article <6u4rzoz0wz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> neil@franklin.ch.remove "Neil Franklin" writes: > And another question. 4004.html claims: > > ---------- > Most people are surprised to learn that the first microcomputer, the > 4004, was a complete failure in meeting its design goals! The 4004 was > simply too slow (at over 10 microseconds per instruction) and too > limited (with only 4 bit word size) to perform its original purpose as > the heart of a "smart" computer terminal. The Japanese corporation > that financed the development of the new microprocessor technology > abandoned the project. > ---------- Apart from the points you raised (snipped), surely the 4004 would never have laid claim to being a microcomputer: it was a microcontroller, just like the later 8048 faimily, or today's PICs. ISTR 4004s being incorporated into beverage vending machines and the like, BICBW. -- Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being incr- easingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, BT Labs ###### From: rmonagha@smu.edu (Robert Monaghan) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers Date: 28 Dec 2000 17:31:52 -0600 Organization: Southern Methodist University Lines: 20 Message-ID: <92gih8$ljb$1@post.cis.smu.edu> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: post.cis.smu.edu X-Trace: hermes.seas.smu.edu 978046314 17860 129.119.64.23 (28 Dec 2000 23:31:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@seas.smu.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Dec 2000 23:31:54 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lmu.de!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.smu.edu!smu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71761 yeah, Technobyte was by Technico = "techno-turkey" makers; and speaking of computer ads, imagine the PC as in politically correct response to two models each biting (byting?) an ear on the male computer geek in the middle ;-) ;-) a reminder that "two bites are better than one" to promote the 16 bit TI9900 series hardware (only they didn't get software licenses..) Sad to say, the ads didn't do much for selling many of their computers - bankruptcy - guess computer geeks are like that ;-) ;-0) I think I still have the documentation around, maybe more stuff? regarding memory, I used to run the campus Cyber 72 mainframe as senior shift operator, with 768 kilobytes equiv. of memory (64 bit words though..), and hundreds of users running on that core memory ;-) ;-) Most secretaries have five times as much memory for their display boards nowadays. Guess that's why it is fun to do retrocomputing, and see how much you can do with just a few kilobytes ;-) -- * Robert Monaghan POB752182 Dallas Tx 75275-2182 rmonagha@mail.smu.edu * * Third Party 35mm Lenses: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/third/index.html * * Medium Format Cameras: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/index.html megasite* ###### From: rmonagha@smu.edu (Robert Monaghan) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers Date: 28 Dec 2000 18:17:31 -0600 Organization: Southern Methodist University Lines: 22 Message-ID: <92gl6r$d84$1@post.cis.smu.edu> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u4rzoz0wz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: post.cis.smu.edu X-Trace: hermes.seas.smu.edu 978049053 19366 129.119.64.23 (29 Dec 2000 00:17:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@seas.smu.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Dec 2000 00:17:33 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.smu.edu!smu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71756 yeah, there are various versions out there; at the bottom of the page http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/4004.html you have one of the original 4004 developer's short history; Busicom got their $60,000 back, but it funded the development; Hoff and Mazor decided to do a processor/computer rather than a calculator custom chip set as envisioned by Busicom (#13); so the busicom design went from a random logic calculator to a microprogrammed MPU... the SIM-4 microcomputer boards were promoted for use in applications such as medical instruments, calculators (thanks to BCD etc), point of sale terminal, and computer display terminal etc. My understanding is that they were just too slow to be used as a standard video terminal, partly due to relatively slow clock rate (under 1 megahertz) and partly due to 4 bit word size etc. The 8008 was the logical followup, and had the speed to serve in many terminal applications, as the original "Mark-8" projects were sometimes used to show ;-) ###### From: "Timo Weggen" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 03:52:36 +0100 Organization: cybernoia Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <92fvvv$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> Reply-To: tweggen@cybernoia.de NNTP-Posting-Host: handi5-212-144-136-087.arcor-ip.net (212.144.136.87) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 978092670 7424126 212.144.136.87 (16 [67566]) User-Agent: Pan/0.9.2 (Unix) X-No-Productlinks: Yes Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!handi5-212-144-136-087.arcor-ip.NET!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71752 In article <92fvvv$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net>, "Eric Chomko" wrote: > Timo Weggen wrote: > : In article <925glj$do@netaxs.com>, "lwin" > wrote: > : > : > The really good ads are from the 1960s and 1950s. > : > : I remember at least two excellent ads from the 80's and 90's: > : (And please, dont understand me wrong, I dont wanna promote Apple) > : > : 1) TV Spot: > : Apple 1984: Introducing the Macintosh The Big Brother 1984 one, > : with the voice saying something like: On January 21st, Apple > will > : introduce Macintosh. And you will see, why 1984 will not be like > : 1984. > : 2) Two page ad in DDJ, Apple (again) 1995 if I remember it right: > : Where do you want to go today? Good question, Microsoft, but > what > : about tommorow? Finnaly, Windows 95 introduces some of the > : features, Apple introduced in 1984. > : > : Maybe I dont know many ads, but I adore these... > > Yes, those were good ones. But speaking about Dr. Dobbs Journal (DDJ), > how about their original covers back in the mid to late 70s? Who could > forget the full title of their mag, 'Dr. Dobbs Journal of Computer, > Calisthenics and Orthodontia: "Running Light, Without Overbyte?"' > > Eric Unfortunately I wasn't really able to see them (born 76), but maybe you can tell me where I could get some of these (maybe even the magazine) ? ###### From: "Michael A." Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 08:23:53 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <92fvvv$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!209.50.235.254!europa.netcrusader.net!209.150.97.11!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71769 > Unfortunately I wasn't really able to see them (born 76), > but maybe you can tell me where I could get some of these > (maybe even the magazine) ? I know this thread is supposed to be about ads, but since we're onto magazines, does anybody here remember Wayne Green, the amateur radio operator from Peterborough, NH who originally started Byte magazine, and later, Kilobyte (which then due to legal reasons became Kilobaud). I was curious if he was still around, and he is -- now selling books about "health secrets": http://www.waynegreen.com/wayne/ Mike ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 29 Dec 2000 15:43:03 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 41 Message-ID: <6uae9f1e6g.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u4rzoz0wz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <92gl6r$d84$1@post.cis.smu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 978100983 1635 10.0.3.2 (29 Dec 2000 14:43:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Dec 2000 14:43:03 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71787 rmonagha@smu.edu (Robert Monaghan) writes: > yeah, there are various versions out there; at the bottom of the page > http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/4004.html you have one of the original 4004 > developer's short history; Which looks far more like the stories I have heard. > the development; Hoff and Mazor decided to do a processor/computer rather > than a calculator custom chip set as envisioned by Busicom (#13); so the > busicom design went from a random logic calculator to a microprogrammed > MPU... Up to here OK. > the SIM-4 microcomputer boards were promoted for ... > and computer display terminal etc. My understanding is that they > were just too slow to be used as a standard video terminal, partly due to > relatively slow clock rate (under 1 megahertz) and partly due to 4 bit > word size etc. Certainly SIM-4 would have made slow terminals. But this would not make the 4004 "a complete failure in meeting its design goals [Calculator]". I just went back to your site (to cut&paste the exact quote) and see that you have updated the text. The new version is a lot better. > The 8008 was the logical followup, and had the speed to > serve in many terminal applications, as the original "Mark-8" projects > were sometimes used to show ;-) Yes. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Ing, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 30 Dec 2000 03:11:07 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 59 Message-ID: <92jjob$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u4rzoz0wz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: u2.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!news.voicenet.com!newsin.iconnet.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u2.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71830 Neil Franklin wrote: : Eric Chomko writes: : > Robert Monaghan wrote: : > : > : see http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/4004.html and computers.html for oldies : > : > Nice sites! I especially liked the write up on all the early computers. : > : > One question though, : And another question. 4004.html claims: : ---------- : Most people are surprised to learn that the first microcomputer, the : 4004, was a complete failure in meeting its design goals! The 4004 was : simply too slow (at over 10 microseconds per instruction) and too : limited (with only 4 bit word size) to perform its original purpose as : the heart of a "smart" computer terminal. The Japanese corporation : that financed the development of the new microprocessor technology : abandoned the project. : ---------- : IMHO this looks like an extremely mangled version of 2 different : stories, the 4004 and the 8008. Well the 4004 and 8008 were the first mircoprocessors not the first microcomputers. Neither of which were successful as the central component of the first successful microcomputer the Altair. And many would claim that the MITS with the Altair was not that successful as the system was plagued with problems. : AFAIK The 4bit 4004 came from work by Intel for Busicom, making : chips for an _desk_calculator_, not an terminal. A terminal was : for an second project for Datapoint and resulted in the 8bit 8008. : Also the 4004 was _up_to_ its intended job (4bit is enough for BCD : calculations and 4k*4 RAM enough for an calculator), but Busicom : could not pay for the job due to financial trouble. So Intel offered : them to waive the costs, if Intel recieves the right sell the chip : to anyone and so try to recuperate its development costs. : So the Japanese did not finance it, Intel paid the R&D from its own : (small) pockets. Busicoms input was to get Intel to do something : (develop and market an processor) that it would have never risked : to do without them. Edison failed many more times with the lightbulb than did Intel prior to making some decent money on the 8080. Later they struck it rich on the 8088 thanks to IBM and the PC. : Above version is from an interview with one of its designers (Faggin) : in Byte 92-3. Eric : -- : Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ : Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 30 Dec 2000 03:47:21 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 34 Message-ID: <92jls9$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <92gih8$ljb$1@post.cis.smu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: u2.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!209.249.123.233.MISMATCH!xfer10.netnews.com!netnews.com!newsin.iconnet.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u2.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71827 Robert Monaghan wrote: : yeah, Technobyte was by Technico = "techno-turkey" makers; and speaking of : computer ads, imagine the PC as in politically correct response to two : models each biting (byting?) an ear on the male computer geek in the : middle ;-) ;-) a reminder that "two bites are better than one" to promote I don't know political-correctness as in PC seems to me more a liberal trait. Are you claiming that the conservative IBM was trying to be PC WRT TI's ad? I tink you might be reading a little too much into the meaning of PC. : the 16 bit TI9900 series hardware (only they didn't get software : licenses..) Sad to say, the ads didn't do much for selling many of their : computers - bankruptcy - guess computer geeks are like that ;-) ;-0) : I think I still have the documentation around, maybe more stuff? I'll have to dig mine out as well. Its buried in the attic. Wasn't the "techno turkey" a single board system? : regarding memory, I used to run the campus Cyber 72 mainframe as senior : shift operator, with 768 kilobytes equiv. of memory (64 bit words : though..), and hundreds of users running on that core memory ;-) ;-) Most : secretaries have five times as much memory for their display boards : nowadays. Guess that's why it is fun to do retrocomputing, and see how : much you can do with just a few kilobytes ;-) Agreed. Eric : -- : * Robert Monaghan POB752182 Dallas Tx 75275-2182 rmonagha@mail.smu.edu * : * Third Party 35mm Lenses: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/third/index.html * : * Medium Format Cameras: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/index.html megasite* ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 30 Dec 2000 03:57:42 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 20 Message-ID: <92jmfm$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <92fvvv$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: u2.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!209.249.123.233.MISMATCH!xfer10.netnews.com!netnews.com!newsin.iconnet.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u2.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71831 Timo Weggen wrote: : In article <92fvvv$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net>, "Eric Chomko" : wrote: [...] : > : > Yes, those were good ones. But speaking about Dr. Dobbs Journal (DDJ), : > how about their original covers back in the mid to late 70s? Who could : > forget the full title of their mag, 'Dr. Dobbs Journal of Computer, : > Calisthenics and Orthodontia: "Running Light, Without Overbyte?"' : > : > Eric : Unfortunately I wasn't really able to see them (born 76), : but maybe you can tell me where I could get some of these : (maybe even the magazine) ? I have some here someplace buried. I'll have to dig one out and scan it. The cover were pretty cool, hand drawn with pencil. Eric ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u4rzoz0wz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <92gl6r$d84$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <6uae9f1e6g.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) From: jot@visi.com (J. Otto Tennant) Lines: 10 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 04:03:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.98.98.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@visi.com X-Trace: ruti.visi.com 978148980 209.98.98.8 (Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:03:00 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 22:03:00 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ruti.visi.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71825 Does anyone have a copy of the Synetics Technical Reference page for its WOM? Years and years ago, back when I was young, I sent a letter to a customers' purchasing agent suggesting that the WOM would be an appropriate and cost-effective solution for disk storage problems. The customer's engineers almost died laughing when the purchasing agent asked for more details. -- J.Otto Tennant jotto@pobox.com Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit. Charter Member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy ###### From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 29 Dec 2000 20:47:14 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: <92jpci028td@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u4rzoz0wz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <92gl6r$d84$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <6uae9f1e6g.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-758.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone0.chicago.il.ameritech.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71828 In article , jot@visi.com says... > >Does anyone have a copy of the Synetics Technical Reference page for its WOM? > >Years and years ago, back when I was young, I sent a letter to a customers' >purchasing >agent suggesting that the WOM would be an appropriate and cost-effective >solution >for disk storage problems. The customer's engineers almost died laughing when >the purchasing agent asked for more details. >-- >J.Otto Tennant jotto@pobox.com > Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit. > Charter Member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy I missed something there. What is WOM? I put it in a search engine, and all I got was "Women Overwhelming Men" and "Word of Mouth." ###### From: dowe@krikkit.localdomain (Dowe Keller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u4rzoz0wz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <92gl6r$d84$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <6uae9f1e6g.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <92jpci028td@edrn.newsguy.com> Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) NNTP-Posting-Host: 20923419626.sierratel.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 20923419626.sierratel.com Date: 29 Dec 2000 21:58:47 -0800 X-Trace: 29 Dec 2000 21:58:47 -0800, 20923419626.sierratel.com Organization: news.sierratel.com Lines: 16 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!panix!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!news.sierratel.com!dowe Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71818 On 29 Dec 2000 20:47:14 -0800, Charles Eicher wrote: >I missed something there. What is WOM? I put it in a search engine, and all I >got was "Women Overwhelming Men" and "Word of Mouth." Write Only Memory -- dowe@sierratel.com http://www.sierratel.com/dowe --- There is a limit to how stupid people really are -- just as there's a limit to the amount of hydrogen in the Universe. There's a lot, but there's a limit. --- David C. Barber ###### From: Lionel Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 00:27:46 +1100 Organization: none at all Lines: 18 Sender: longword@dialup-71.visp2.unite.com.au Distribution: bofh Message-ID: <7hor4tk44vlv20qoea07o433amos074012@4ax.com> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u4rzoz0wz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <978041640snz@dsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-71.visp2.unite.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: zebkrahn.brong.net 978182768 28007 203.111.52.71 (30 Dec 2000 13:26:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@zebkrahn.brong.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Dec 2000 13:26:08 GMT X-No-Archive: yes Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!newnews.netizen.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71847 Word has it that on Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:14:00 GMT, in this august forum, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) said: >Apart from the points you raised (snipped), surely the 4004 would never >have laid claim to being a microcomputer: it was a microcontroller, just >like the later 8048 faimily, or today's PICs. IIRC, the distinction between microprocessor vs microcontroller was meaningless at that time. The term 'microcontroller' came along later, from memory, about the time that microprocessors with inbuilt ROM & RAM hit the market. -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- ###### From: Lionel Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 00:32:20 +1100 Organization: none at all Lines: 27 Sender: longword@dialup-71.visp2.unite.com.au Distribution: bofh Message-ID: References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u4rzoz0wz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <92gl6r$d84$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <6uae9f1e6g.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-71.visp2.unite.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: zebkrahn.brong.net 978183044 28007 203.111.52.71 (30 Dec 2000 13:30:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@zebkrahn.brong.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Dec 2000 13:30:44 GMT X-No-Archive: yes Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newnews.netizen.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71859 Word has it that on Sat, 30 Dec 2000 04:03:00 GMT, in this august forum, jot@visi.com (J. Otto Tennant) said: >Does anyone have a copy of the Synetics Technical Reference page for its WOM? I believe that you maen 'Signetics', not 'Synetics'. I'm pretty sure that that is the same April fool datasheet that I remember, which came from Signetics, (or possibly National Semiconductor). >Years and years ago, back when I was young, I sent a letter to a customers' purchasing >agent suggesting that the WOM would be an appropriate and cost-effective solution >for disk storage problems. The customer's engineers almost died laughing when >the purchasing agent asked for more details. *snicker* Mind you, the supply voltages might have beeen a problem for designers used to TTL - IIRC, that particular chip was specc'ed as requiring a 6.3V filament supply rail. -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- ###### From: Lionel Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 00:36:28 +1100 Organization: none at all Lines: 18 Sender: longword@dialup-71.visp2.unite.com.au Distribution: bofh Message-ID: References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <92fvvv$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-71.visp2.unite.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: zebkrahn.brong.net 978183290 28007 203.111.52.71 (30 Dec 2000 13:34:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@zebkrahn.brong.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Dec 2000 13:34:50 GMT X-No-Archive: yes Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!news.kjsl.com!newnews.netizen.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71858 Word has it that on 28 Dec 2000 18:15:27 GMT, in this august forum, Eric Chomko said: >Yes, those were good ones. But speaking about Dr. Dobbs Journal (DDJ), how >about their original covers back in the mid to late 70s? Who could forget >the full title of their mag, 'Dr. Dobbs Journal of Computer, Calisthenics >and Orthodontia: "Running Light, Without Overbyte?"' The cover art was pretty nifty as well. I still remember the very first time I saw it at a technical bookshop - it looked like some sort of bizarre 18th century snake-oil sales poster. -- W . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est ---^----^--------------------------------------------------------------- ###### From: Dav_and_Frances_Vandenbroucke@compuserve.com (Dav Vandenbroucke) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 19:32:14 GMT Organization: CompuServe Interactive Services Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3a4e1916.19162578@news.compuserve.com> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <92gih8$ljb$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92jls9$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mid-tgn-neu-vty62.as.wcom.net X-Trace: sshuraaa-i-1.production.compuserve.com 978204830 21548 216.192.70.62 (30 Dec 2000 19:33:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@compuserve.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Dec 2000 19:33:50 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71872 On 30 Dec 2000 03:47:21 GMT, Eric Chomko wrote: >Robert Monaghan wrote: >I don't know political-correctness as in PC seems to me more a liberal >trait. As I see it, political correctness is a term invented by conservatives (a conservative college newspaper, IIRC) in order to excuse insulting people they don't like. Anyone who objects to ethnic, racial, or other slurs is accused of being "PC." Dav Vandenbroucke dav_and_frances_vandenbroucke@compuserve.com ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u4rzoz0wz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <92gl6r$d84$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <6uae9f1e6g.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <92jpci028td@edrn.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.6 (NOV) From: jot@visi.com (J. Otto Tennant) Lines: 20 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 04:18:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.98.98.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@visi.com X-Trace: ruti.visi.com 978236338 209.98.98.8 (Sat, 30 Dec 2000 22:18:58 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 22:18:58 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!209.98.98.64!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ruti.visi.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71921 Charles Eicher writes: [...] >I missed something there. What is WOM? I put it in a search engine, and all I >got was "Women Overwhelming Men" and "Word of Mouth." "Write Only Memory". This was a technology of the early 1970's, providing an effective solution to the need for disk space. The chip was an immensive advance on current technology. The drain pin went directly to the sewer, providing a very useful heat sink. -- J.Otto Tennant jotto@pobox.com Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit. Charter Member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy ###### From: "OTTO" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 01:44:16 -0800 Organization: Situationist International Message-ID: Reply-To: "OTTO" References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <92gih8$ljb$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92jls9$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3a4e1916.19162578@news.compuserve.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 26 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sn-xit-01!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71932 Nah, in my understanding, it was a 1960s leftist term used against more dogmatic colleagues (Maoists and the like, for example). In the early 80's, conservatives used it in a similar matter against their own. It was only in the late 80s that it became widely identified as an attack on the 'multiculturalists. "Dav Vandenbroucke" wrote in message news:3a4e1916.19162578@news.compuserve.com... > On 30 Dec 2000 03:47:21 GMT, Eric Chomko wrote: > > >Robert Monaghan wrote: > > >I don't know political-correctness as in PC seems to me more a liberal > >trait. > > As I see it, political correctness is a term invented by conservatives > (a conservative college newspaper, IIRC) in order to excuse insulting > people they don't like. Anyone who objects to ethnic, racial, or > other slurs is accused of being "PC." > > Dav Vandenbroucke > dav_and_frances_vandenbroucke@compuserve.com ###### From: Tony Lima Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Organization: Tony Lima Associates Reply-To: TonyLima2@worldnet.att.net Message-ID: <0s1v4tkvvgiqaht4g8hhaatfvk2kutvj3d@4ax.com> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/16.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 20:08:33 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.72.66.34 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 978293313 12.72.66.34 (Sun, 31 Dec 2000 20:08:33 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 20:08:33 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.72!wnfilter2!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71946 On Sun, 24 Dec 2000 09:18:19 -0500, "Don Chiasson" wrote: > >On slashdot, I saw a pointer to a site that has >a collection of vintage (80's, that is) computer >ads: > >http://www.sbrowning.com/ > >Some are fun to look at. Sigh, I liked my >Colecovision. (Yes, I know it's not a >computer, but....) > Two words: bilge pump. - Tony ###### From: rmonagha@smu.edu (Robert Monaghan) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers Date: 31 Dec 2000 16:53:06 -0600 Organization: Southern Methodist University Lines: 17 Message-ID: <92odci$vt2$1@post.cis.smu.edu> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u4rzoz0wz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <92jjob$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: post.cis.smu.edu X-Trace: hermes.seas.smu.edu 978303186 28547 129.119.64.23 (31 Dec 2000 22:53:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@seas.smu.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Dec 2000 22:53:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.smu.edu!smu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71955 well, when Intel put their 4004 CPU with ram and eprom and rom on a single board with lots of i/o, I feel it is reasonable to call that product a "microcomputer" since it computes and does i/o and everything etc. ;-) see http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/4004.jpg for photo of SBC - what I'd claim is the world's first mass produced microcomputer, even if just 4 bits... microcontrollers came later; in the sense of RAM/ROM/CPU on a chip; but if you mean board level products, again, the SIM-4 MCS is probably a candidate?... -- * Robert Monaghan POB752182 Dallas Tx 75275-2182 rmonagha@mail.smu.edu * * Third Party 35mm Lenses: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/third/index.html * * Medium Format Cameras: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/index.html megasite* ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <92gih8$ljb$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92jls9$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3a4e1916.19162578@news.compuserve.com> Organization: Plethora . Net - More Net, Less Spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Originator: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Date: 01 Jan 2001 09:12:04 GMT Lines: 55 Message-ID: <3a5049e4$0$653$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 6aa448cf.news.plethora.net X-Trace: 978340324 gemini.plethora.net 653 seebs@205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!nextra.com!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!gemini-int.visi.com.MISMATCH!gemini.plethora.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:71969 In article <3a4e1916.19162578@news.compuserve.com>, Dav Vandenbroucke wrote: >As I see it, political correctness is a term invented by conservatives >(a conservative college newspaper, IIRC) in order to excuse insulting >people they don't like. Anyone who objects to ethnic, racial, or >other slurs is accused of being "PC." No, that's not necessarily "PC". To be "PC" it must be in some way silly. When I was in college, we had some PC people; they formed a group dedicated to providing an *absolute* prohibition on anything which offended people. I found them offensive, but they wouldn't shut up. Consider the distinction: "Don't call Tim a fucking queer." -> Probably rational. "Don't call Tim gay." -> Probably PC. "Don't call Tim homosexual." -> Almost certainly PC. For instance, let's say we agree (for the sake of argument) that "nigger" is an "offensive" word. So, instead, we agree to call people with skin in a certain range of tones "colored". Of course, this doesn't eliminate discrimination, and the people who used to use "nigger" as if it were a swear word immediately start using "colored" in much the same way. After a while, it starts grating on people, so we acknowledge that "colored" is probably too laden with connotations, so we switch to "black". Unfortunately, the Archie Bunkers of the world would sooner eat cockroaches than associate with "blacks", so we invent... African-American. When one sees references to a guy in Finland who is "African-American", *THAT* is PC. Essentially, PC is where you take the understandable goal of trying to avoid offending people, and pretend it is an achievable end. It's also where you miss the step from "avoid offending rational people" to "avoid offending easily-offended people". I have heard people complain about the use of the word "Jews" to refer to, uhm, Jews. I have heard people complain about the use of the word "black", even though I can't think of a better one. (I have a friend who's roughly coffee colored, albeit admittedly with a fair dose of non-dairy creamer. Her ancestors have been on this side of the Atlantic for at least five or six hundred years. I'm fairly close to Scandinavian Pale, and I have an ancestor from Africa within th elast three generations. "African-American" is so totally un-better as to be laughable.) I think the reason so many engineers dismiss PC is the obvious logical flaw in the leap from "I have identified a member of group A who is offended by this" to "this is offensive to members of group A". -s -- Copyright 2000, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Consulting & Computers: http://www.plethora.net/ ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Tue, 02 Jan 01 12:17:49 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 43 Message-ID: <92skvl$oia$6@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <92gih8$ljb$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92jls9$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3a4e1916.19162578@news.compuserve.com> <3a5049e4$0$653$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <3A50FBB1.FF977E12@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVa17g/wuaPEdyEtj7NLT5UN8Jsx8duPHQi29OFJWMih+xRVOBLSUEt7 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Jan 2001 13:27:17 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!209-122-236-81 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72057 In article <3A50FBB1.FF977E12@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >Peter Seebach wrote: >> >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> >> For instance, let's say we agree (for the sake of argument) that "nigger" >> is an "offensive" word. So, instead, we agree to call people with skin >> in a certain range of tones "colored". Of course, this doesn't eliminate >> discrimination, and the people who used to use "nigger" as if it were a >> swear word immediately start using "colored" in much the same way. After >> a while, it starts grating on people, so we acknowledge that "colored" is >> probably too laden with connotations, so we switch to "black". Unfortunately, >> the Archie Bunkers of the world would sooner eat cockroaches than associate >> with "blacks", so we invent... African-American. >> >Anthropologists now believe that human life originated in Africa >quite a while ago. So I guess that makes *all* Amercans to be >African-Americans. And what is with this Kwanza stuff??? Why do >people who have *never* been to Africa and probably *never* even >met anyone directly from Africa, feel it is there place to celebrate >a bastardized version of some African holiday??? > >When I was in college circa 20 years ago, I knew a guy from Kenya. >He was black, but the American blacks would *not* socialize with >him. If he went to parties, the American blacks would shun him. >IMHO the "civil rights" movement has turned into some kind of >"us and them" pissing match... > yup. There was weirder shit happening in 1968 when I started college. Then this idiotic women's movement got started. I always thought that Kwanza was just another way to extend holiday shopping opportunities. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 2 Jan 2001 16:44:34 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 20 Message-ID: <92t0hi$ibi@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <92gih8$ljb$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92jls9$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3a4e1916.19162578@news.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: u3.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!xfer10.netnews.com!netnews.com!newsin.iconnet.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u3.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72056 Dav Vandenbroucke wrote: : On 30 Dec 2000 03:47:21 GMT, Eric Chomko wrote: : >Robert Monaghan wrote: : >I don't know political-correctness as in PC seems to me more a liberal : >trait. : As I see it, political correctness is a term invented by conservatives : (a conservative college newspaper, IIRC) in order to excuse insulting : people they don't like. Anyone who objects to ethnic, racial, or : other slurs is accused of being "PC." Are you saying that some rednecks in a cow-college passed off the term "PC" in some no-name rag? Eric : Dav Vandenbroucke : dav_and_frances_vandenbroucke@compuserve.com ###### From: ktakki@artcrime.com (Karlo X) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 2 Jan 2001 17:50:37 -0600 Organization: Artcrime Lines: 38 Message-ID: <901DBF77Cktakki@63.209.170.209> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <92gih8$ljb$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92jls9$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3a4e1916.19162578@news.compuserve.com> <92t0hi$ibi@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> User-Agent: Xnews/03.08.04 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72069 chomko@IDT.NET (Eric Chomko) wrote in <92t0hi$ibi@nnrp3.farm.idt.net>: >Dav Vandenbroucke >wrote: >: On 30 Dec 2000 03:47:21 GMT, Eric Chomko wrote: > >: >Robert Monaghan wrote: > >: >I don't know political-correctness as in PC seems to me more a >: >liberal trait. > >: As I see it, political correctness is a term invented by >: conservatives (a conservative college newspaper, IIRC) in order to >: excuse insulting people they don't like. Anyone who objects to >: ethnic, racial, or other slurs is accused of being "PC." > >Are you saying that some rednecks in a cow-college passed off the >term "PC" in some no-name rag? Yeah, if you consider Dartmouth University a "cow-college". As for "no-name rag", consider how many former staffers for that college newspaper ended up with jobs inside the Beltway. IIRC, the term "politically correct" predates that Reagan-era usage, coming from China's Cultural Revolution and, perhaps from Stalin's '34-'35 purge. In both cases, those found "politically incorrect" were "re-educated", itself a euphemism for mass-starvation, exile, imprisonment in the gulag, or the 9mm flu. See also '70s Cambodia, '80s Central America, eyeglass wearers and priests respectively. k. -- "In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank ###### From: Dav_and_Frances_Vandenbroucke@compuserve.com (Dav Vandenbroucke) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 23:57:02 GMT Organization: CompuServe Interactive Services Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3a526056.26509404@news.compuserve.com> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <92gih8$ljb$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92jls9$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3a4e1916.19162578@news.compuserve.com> <92t0hi$ibi@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mid-tgn-noo-vty39.as.wcom.net X-Trace: sshuraac-i-1.production.compuserve.com 978479923 26972 216.192.79.39 (2 Jan 2001 23:58:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@compuserve.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Jan 2001 23:58:43 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72101 On 2 Jan 2001 16:44:34 GMT, Eric Chomko wrote: >Are you saying that some rednecks in a cow-college passed off the term >"PC" in some no-name rag? Not any of those adjectives, no. My memory of the details is uncertain, but I believe it was one of the tonier northeastern colleges--perhaps Amherst or Darmouth. As it happens, I did graduate from what you would probably call a "cow-college" and think I got rather a good education. Dav Vandenbroucke dav_and_frances_vandenbroucke@compuserve.com ###### Message-ID: <3A538633.6975FCDA@ev1.net> Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:06:11 -0800 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <92gih8$ljb$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92jls9$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3a4e1916.19162578@news.compuserve.com> <3a5049e4$0$653$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <3A50FBB1.FF977E12@ev1.net> <92skvl$oia$6@bob.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: taydal-207-55-144-145.ev1.net X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 978545402 taydal-207-55-144-145.ev1.net (3 Jan 2001 12:10:02 -0600) Lines: 16 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72150 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > yup. There was weirder shit happening in 1968 when I started > college. Then this idiotic women's movement got started. > I always thought that Kwanza was just another way to extend > holiday shopping opportunities. > For *some* women, like my wife and her friends, *anything* can be another way to extend shopping opportunities!!! -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Message-ID: <3A5387D1.5986E9B3@ev1.net> Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:13:06 -0800 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <925vvm$pb5$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92fqjd$o75@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <92gih8$ljb$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92jls9$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3a4e1916.19162578@news.compuserve.com> <92t0hi$ibi@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <901DBF77Cktakki@63.209.170.209> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: taydal-207-55-144-145.ev1.net X-Trace: newsa.ev1.net 978545815 taydal-207-55-144-145.ev1.net (3 Jan 2001 12:16:55 -0600) Lines: 28 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!newsa.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72149 Karlo X wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > IIRC, the term "politically correct" predates that Reagan-era > usage, coming from China's Cultural Revolution and, perhaps > from Stalin's '34-'35 purge. In both cases, those found > "politically incorrect" were "re-educated", itself a euphemism > for mass-starvation, exile, imprisonment in the gulag, or the > 9mm flu. See also '70s Cambodia, '80s Central America, eyeglass > wearers and priests respectively. > IIRC, the Japanese have a saying: "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down." So much for conformity... Do *not* forget that Communist China once terminated intellectuals (eyeglass wearer's) with extreme prejudice.... All this stuff about needing to tow the party line in repressively run countries is *very* true... But here in the U.S., many people are quite happy to be PC just to get a raise, a promotion or even a *slightly* bigger office (or cubicle). Only we called it "brown nosing" instead of being PC... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: Thu, 04 Jan 01 13:43:20 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <9322oi$sa6$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <92gih8$ljb$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92jls9$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3a4e1916.19162578@news.compuserve.com> <3a5049e4$0$653$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> <3A50FBB1.FF977E12@ev1.net> <92skvl$oia$6@bob.news.rcn.net> <3A538633.6975FCDA@ev1.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbIjJaFprcBE4xKaGaFh4Qu22GhO5jpAVQEkpup83a5nOWqzIaFPILg X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Jan 2001 14:53:06 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!209.50.235.254!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.44!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-24 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72238 In article <3A538633.6975FCDA@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] >> >> yup. There was weirder shit happening in 1968 when I started >> college. Then this idiotic women's movement got started. >> I always thought that Kwanza was just another way to extend >> holiday shopping opportunities. >> >For *some* women, like my wife and her friends, *anything* can >be another way to extend shopping opportunities!!! > I have yet to understand the lure of shopping. I hate to do it. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: anonymous@nowhere.you.know Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 4 Jan 2001 18:02:15 GMT Organization: House of Hawkins Lines: 32 Message-ID: <932dr7$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <92jls9$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3a4e1916.19 NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72222 In article <3a5049e4$0$653$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net>, Peter Seebach wrote: >In article <3a4e1916.19162578@news.compuserve.com>, >Dav Vandenbroucke wrote: >>As I see it, political correctness is a term invented by conservatives >>(a conservative college newspaper, IIRC) in order to excuse insulting >>people they don't like. Anyone who objects to ethnic, racial, or >>other slurs is accused of being "PC." >No, that's not necessarily "PC". To be "PC" it must be in some way silly. >When I was in college, we had some PC people; they formed a group dedicated >to providing an *absolute* prohibition on anything which offended people. Gee, I hope this works . . . but I doubt it. [ /rant{stupid debian keeps changing the way things work, and now I'm blindly fiddling with /var/lib/news/active, apparently pestering moderators of random newsgroups. I finally rememberd how I solved this problem last time-- by installing FreeBSD!] {Yes, this is why I've been away so long; I can't get the stupid machine to post} extended rant: for crying out loud, now I'm trying to do this from lynx . . . does anyone know how to convince this week's version of "stable" debian to post??? The term PC didn't originate from conservatives, but from the PC folks themselves, as a way of designating proper behavior. They were shocked when the label was turned on them, and was seen as something bad rather than a positive label, having completely missed the Orwellian aspects of their agenda . . . hawk ###### From: dochawk@psu.edu Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 4 Jan 2001 18:19:16 GMT Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing Lines: 27 Message-ID: <932er4$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <932dr7$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: fac13.ds.psu.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72221 In article <3a54bbb8$0$16022$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net>, Peter Seebach wrote: >In article <932585$sa6$7@bob.news.rcn.net>, wrote: >>In article <930ro0$d1n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, spinoza9999@my-deja.com wrote: >> >>>In our culture, many programmers are anti-math, and sometimes for a >>>good reason. >> >>I spent some time thinking about all the programmers I knew >>and know. I can't think of one who was "anti-math". I don't >>think you know zip about programming or care to learn. >I can't imagine a programmer being anti-math. It's like an engineer being >anti-physics. I truly hate to to this, but I have to disagree with you :) Didn't you used to teach introductory programming :) OK, OK. THose anti-math guys should be "putative programmers", not programmers :) hawk, who would be happy if the students in his stat classes could divide 2 by .5 and get 4 rather than 1 . . . ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads References: <932dr7$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <932er4$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> Organization: Plethora . Net - More Net, Less Spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test74 (May 26, 2000) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Originator: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Date: 04 Jan 2001 21:47:34 GMT Lines: 19 Message-ID: <3a54ef76$0$12800$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 34ce53b7.news.plethora.net X-Trace: 978644854 gemini.plethora.net 12800 seebs@205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!gemini-int.visi.com.MISMATCH!gemini.plethora.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:72357 In article <932er4$ga8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, wrote: >I truly hate to to this, but I have to disagree with you :) Oh, alright. >Didn't you used to teach introductory programming :) Nope. >OK, OK. THose anti-math guys should be "putative programmers", not >programmers :) Fair enough. -s -- Copyright 2000, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Consulting & Computers: http://www.plethora.net/ ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Vintage computer ads Date: 22 Jan 2001 15:55:57 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 19 Message-ID: <94hl6d$r3u@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> References: <925glj$do@netaxs.com> <92gih8$ljb$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <92jls9$fl6@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3a4e1916.19162578@news.compuserve.com> <92t0hi$ibi@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3a526056.26509404@news.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: u1.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u1.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:73952 Dav Vandenbroucke wrote: : On 2 Jan 2001 16:44:34 GMT, Eric Chomko wrote: : >Are you saying that some rednecks in a cow-college passed off the term : >"PC" in some no-name rag? : Not any of those adjectives, no. My memory of the details is : uncertain, but I believe it was one of the tonier northeastern : colleges--perhaps Amherst or Darmouth. : As it happens, I did graduate from what you would probably call a : "cow-college" and think I got rather a good education. As did I. :) Eric : Dav Vandenbroucke : dav_and_frances_vandenbroucke@compuserve.com