From: Erno Palonheimo Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: PDP-15 questions Date: 02 Nov 2000 05:57:11 +0200 Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland Lines: 22 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: vipunen.hut.fi X-Trace: nntp.hut.fi 973137431 29022 130.233.249.7 (2 Nov 2000 03:57:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nntp.hut.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Nov 2000 03:57:11 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!uio.no!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!news.cs.hut.fi!nntp.hut.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:67277 Greetings, I'd like to know more about Digital's PDP-15 machines. Such as, which operating systems were available, or were there any besides DOS-15? What languages were available for it? We have full hardware, DOS-15 and hardware maintenance documentation, but the only programming language documentation I could find was about FORTRAN and MACRO-15. We also have _lots_ of software for the machine, including sources (DOS-15, for example), but I haven't been able to go through the tapes yet because we don't have a DECtape unit right now. There have been at least two systems used by universities here in Finland, and ours had one. The other system still exists, and the person responsible for its maintenance told me that it still runs perfectly - and they might be willing to pass it over to us. Was the system popular in academic use in other countries too? -- Erno Palonheimo | Hämeentie 1 D 32 | UNIX System Administrator http://iki.fi/esp/ | 00530 Helsinki | Helsinki University of Technology esp@cc.hut.fi | +358 50 560 4765 | http://www.hut.fi/cc/ ###### From: Michael Ross Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-15 questions Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 01:05:44 -0500 Lines: 44 Message-ID: <9m020tkfdpr9hqoi2mim7tgm68uojmu9bs@4ax.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: lC1vP1wHJWSW1wTItO4TI0Sq5cGNH8tObzaZPyJa6i4= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Nov 2000 06:00:16 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:67324 On 02 Nov 2000 05:57:11 +0200, Erno Palonheimo wrote: > >Greetings, > > I'd like to know more about Digital's PDP-15 machines. Such as, >which operating systems were available, or were there any besides >DOS-15? What languages were available for it? We have full hardware, >DOS-15 and hardware maintenance documentation, but the only >programming language documentation I could find was about FORTRAN and >MACRO-15. We also have _lots_ of software for the machine, including >sources (DOS-15, for example), but I haven't been able to go through >the tapes yet because we don't have a DECtape unit right now. > > There have been at least two systems used by universities here in >Finland, and ours had one. The other system still exists, and the >person responsible for its maintenance told me that it still runs >perfectly - and they might be willing to pass it over to us. Was the >system popular in academic use in other countries too? Erno, I have two 15s, and both came out of military-related establishments... one was used in (I believe) rader data aquisition/processing at the British Ministry of Defence missile test range at Aberporth, in Wales. The other was used to help run the Tornado fighter aircraft hydraulic test rig/simulator at British Aerospace. (along with a couple of pdp-8e machines) I don't know about academic use... the only other system in the UK still in existance is at a musum, hooked up to some early 70's medical device - a scanner of some kind, I think. I also heard of them being used in early CAD systems. More info on my machines at http://www.corestore.org - follow the 'computers' link Mike Rangers Catering Corps - 'We boil for the One, we fry for the One' http://www.corestore.org ###### From: "Paul Hardy" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-15 questions Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 10:59:38 -0000 Organization: Laser-Scan Ltd. Lines: 43 Message-ID: <9mn*kkfGo@relay.lsl.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: relay.lsl.co.uk X-Server-Date: 2 Nov 2000 11:04:11 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Originator: @lslnbq.int.lsl.co.uk ([192.168.150.188]) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!psiuk-p4!uknet!psiuk-n!relay.lsl.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:67249 Erno Palonheimo said: > I'd like to know more about Digital's PDP-15 machines. Such as, >which operating systems were available, or were there any besides >DOS-15? What languages were available for it? Was the >system popular in academic use in other countries too? I have the console of a PDP15 next to my desk now, together with a chunk of core. It was the first computer belonging to Laser-Scan where I still work. In 1975 when I joined, it was still very much in use, driving the laser-based instruments that we made then. This included Sweepnik (a bubble chamber film digitising system for high-energy physics research), and the HRD-1 large screen, high resolution vector display and plotter. When I say large screen and high resolution, I mean it - this had 140,000 by 100,000 addressible points on a screen over a metre square! The PDP15 was programmed in Macro assembler and in Fortran, using KM15 as the operating system. This could run two users (foreground & background). It had no disks, just four DECTAPE drives (1 inch pre-addressed magtape), plus paper tape. It had 8k words of 18-bit memory. One nice feature was that the console had a speed control knob, by which you could slow down the clock rate (down to one instruction a minute if you wanted), in order to see instructions and addresses in the console lights. However in 1975, its days were numbered, as the company's first PDP-11 (11/45) arrived the same month as me. We did ship several 15-based systems afterwards worldwide, including one using a very strange DEC beast called the XVM-15 which had a PDP-11 CPU and Unibus as well as the 15 CPU. It arrived bent, having been run into by a fork lift truck, but seemed to work OK. Certainly PDP15s (and their predecessors the 7 and 9) were used in academia as advanced scientific equipment controllers (provided the not insignificant cost was affordable). Paul Hardy (PGH), Business Development Manager, Laser-Scan Ltd, Science Park, Milton Rd, CAMBRIDGE, CB4 0FY, GB. Tel: +44 (0)1223 420414 Fax: 420044, Email: Paul@LSL.co.uk, Web: http://www.Laser-Scan.com ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-15 questions Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 09:41:45 -0800 Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Lines: 38 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: haxrus.apple.com X-Trace: news.apple.com 973186905 8468 17.205.21.66 (2 Nov 2000 17:41:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.apple.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Nov 2000 17:41:45 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!forum.apple.com!news.apple.com!haxrus.apple.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:67272 In article , Erno Palonheimo wrote: > Greetings, > > I'd like to know more about Digital's PDP-15 machines. Such as, > which operating systems were available, or were there any besides > DOS-15? The smaller configurations were paper tape based. There was also a real-time system (RSX-15) > What languages were available for it? FOCAL was also available (I've been slowly typing in the listing, since I don't have it in machine-readable form). There was also a program called 8TRAN which would (partly) translate PDP-8 assembly programs to PDP-15 assembler, and flag the incompatibilites. > We have full hardware, > DOS-15 and hardware maintenance documentation, but the only > programming language documentation I could find was about FORTRAN and > MACRO-15. We also have _lots_ of software for the machine, including > sources (DOS-15, for example), but I haven't been able to go through > the tapes yet because we don't have a DECtape unit right now. > PLEASE! Software for these machines has been VERY difficult to find. I have an incomplete paper tape software system (missing one of the two Macro-15 paper tapes) and bits an pieces of the rest of the paper tape software system. What I have been able to find is at http://www.spies.com/aek/18bit/ -- The eBay Curse: "May you find everything you're looking for.." ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-15 questions Date: Fri, 03 Nov 00 11:41:00 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 16 Message-ID: <8tubp6$eph$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: X-Trace: OI14vQ5IiNsRxX0E22/SXbpH9Y1yCtxouxsRfGDrXKM= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Nov 2000 12:41:10 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lmu.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-181 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:67375 In article , aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote: >FOCAL was also available (I've been slowly typing in the listing, >since I don't have it in machine-readable form). Are you typing it in ASCII? I can do that. Send me a _copy_ of some pages and I'll be willing to spend some time putting them on a floppy for you. I can write to the little and medium-sized floppies. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-15 questions Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 21:38:32 -0700 Organization: Systematic Software Lines: 46 Message-ID: <93o80t0j6net33ji1169eblbuoepfh5atf@4ax.com> References: Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: h-207-148-141-144.dial.cadvision.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.cadvision.com 973399120 27523 207.148.141.144 (5 Nov 2000 04:38:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cadvision.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 04:38:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.germany.net!news.tele.dk!205.231.236.10!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp.cadvision.com!207.228.64.17.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:67634 On 02 Nov 2000 05:57:11 +0200, Erno Palonheimo wrote: > >Greetings, > > I'd like to know more about Digital's PDP-15 machines. Such as, >which operating systems were available, or were there any besides >DOS-15? What languages were available for it? We have full hardware, >DOS-15 and hardware maintenance documentation, but the only >programming language documentation I could find was about FORTRAN and >MACRO-15. We also have _lots_ of software for the machine, including >sources (DOS-15, for example), but I haven't been able to go through >the tapes yet because we don't have a DECtape unit right now. > > There have been at least two systems used by universities here in >Finland, and ours had one. The other system still exists, and the >person responsible for its maintenance told me that it still runs >perfectly - and they might be willing to pass it over to us. Was the >system popular in academic use in other countries too? I cut my teeth on one in Scotland during the early part of the 1974-9 time frame (before 11s). Ours was used as a hybrid with a big ERA analogue computer for naval engine, transmission, control system data analysis, control systems simulations, and CAD mainly for planning equipment removal and replacement during refits. The code was written in house, and the OS and utilities augmented to support our needs. The config was a PDP-15/40 CPU and FPU, 32KW (18-bit) core, real time clock, RF-15 head per track disk drive, TE/U-15 7/9 track drive, dual dectapes, high speed paper tape reader and punch, graphics rack with monitor, light pen, 6 push buttons and keyboard, Calcomp plotter, and D/A and A/D modules hooked up to the analogue. We had one guy who had worked for DEC UK and one guy who later worked for DEC UK doing a lot of the system work. I believe I had ref cards around, somewhere in the basement, at least before our last move. Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian_Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) use address above to reply ###### From: David Razler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-15 questions Reply-To: david.razler@worldnet.att.net Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:22:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.66.213 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 974215361 12.79.66.213 (Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:22:41 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:22:41 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.19!wnmasters2!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:68633 On 02 Nov 2000 05:57:11 +0200, Erno Palonheimo wrote: > >Greetings, > > I'd like to know more about Digital's PDP-15 machines. Such as, >which operating systems were available, or were there any besides >DOS-15? What languages were available for it? We have full hardware, >DOS-15 and hardware maintenance documentation, but the only >programming language documentation I could find was about FORTRAN and >MACRO-15. We also have _lots_ of software for the machine, including >sources (DOS-15, for example), but I haven't been able to go through >the tapes yet because we don't have a DECtape unit right now. > Sorry for the late reply: Owned three - lost em in the big, well, I've told that story before... The PDP-15 ran several OS's - it was backwards-compatible with the PDP-7 DECTape-based and paper-tape based systems and PDP-9 disk, DECTape and paper tape systems. These included specialty systems including one running one of the largest ADCs ever made to date to monitor the photomultipliers on small linear accelerators. It ran OS-15 on *either* DECTape or disk, the original MUMPS (hospital data system), RSX-15, etc. Several extensions to RSX-15 were made for the PDP-15/76 the last of the 18-bitters, a PDP-15 with a PDP-11 front end. I have some 18 bit doc available for the price of photocopy, including the complete hardware manuals for the -7 and -15, As far as the heavilly-microcoded PDP-9 goes, the less said, the better, IMHO. dmr ###### Message-ID: <3A16C61B.D56FCD1E@earthlink.net> From: Walter Spector Organization: Not much. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD SGI (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-15 questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 18:11:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.179.251.54 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 974571094 209.179.251.54 (Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:11:34 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:11:34 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:68846 Erno Palonheimo wrote: > I'd like to know more about Digital's PDP-15 machines. The lab I worked for at the U. of Arizona was just getting rid of theirs when I started - circa 1978 or 1979. Ours had a graphics scope, DECtape drives, disk, etc. Neat looking machine with a equally cool front panel. The main reason it was replaced is that the lab wanted to go to a real time-sharing system. The lab purchased a Data General Eclipse (running AOS - nice system in its day) and sold the PDP-15 to Boeing in Seattle. Boeing apparently had quite a few -15s in operation at that time, so was happy to have it. One curious feature was that in Fortran, packed Hollerith data was spread over a pair of 18-bit words ('about' 2.5 bytes per word.) The Fortran compiler had a been extended with a bit- addressing syntax. It has been so long that I've forgotten the exact syntax, but seem to recall that it used square brackets to specify bit fields (e.g. iword[7:11] gives you bits 7 through 11 of iword, etc.) Could someone with the manuals look this up? And was the syntax allowed on the LEFT side of an assignment? Walt -...- Walt Spector (w6ws at earthlink dot net) ###### From: David Razler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: PDP-15 questions Reply-To: david.razler@worldnet.att.net Message-ID: References: <3A16C61B.D56FCD1E@earthlink.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 21:16:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.65.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 974582185 12.79.65.8 (Sat, 18 Nov 2000 21:16:25 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 21:16:25 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmasters2!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:69038 On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 18:11:34 GMT, Walter Spector wrote: >Erno Palonheimo wrote: >> I'd like to know more about Digital's PDP-15 machines. > >The lab I worked for at the U. of Arizona was just getting >rid of theirs when I started - circa 1978 or 1979. Ours had >a graphics scope, DECtape drives, disk, etc. Neat looking >machine with a equally cool front panel. > >The main reason it was replaced is that the lab wanted to go to >a real time-sharing system. The lab purchased a Data General >Eclipse (running AOS - nice system in its day) and sold the >PDP-15 to Boeing in Seattle. Boeing apparently had quite a >few -15s in operation at that time, so was happy to have it. > What was wrong with the available TSS systems for the -15? Hey, if you could run 12 users off a PDP-8/I with 16K core and an RS-08 128K HD running TSS-8, configuring RSX-15 for timesharing would have produced a screamer. dmr