From: "David C. Barber" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:53:50 -0700 Organization: CTSnet Internet Services Lines: 25 Message-ID: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> X-Trace: thoth.cts.com 970613729 86890 208.167.188.247 (3 Oct 2000 22:55:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cts.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!feeder.via.net!news.he.net!mercury.cts.com!thoth.cts.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65293 I remember using some Tektronics raster storage tube graphic terminals in the mid to later 70s. They had a green screen that an image could be "written" into that would glow brightly until "erased". There was also a "write-through" mode that wasn't permanent. When used as an ASCII terminal, it would write one column of data down the left side, and then write a second column starting in the middle -- sometimes with line wrap problems. The tubes were reportedly quite expensive, and they would often wear out in the upper left which got the most write cycles. A solution to extend the life was to rotate the tube 180 degrees and place the least used lower right into the upper left. And though the tubes were expensive, it would do graphics when no one else did, and probably saved some money back in those days when ram was more expensive than it is now. I also believe it had a screen copy function that output a scanned image to special printer. The technology didn't survive HP graphic terminals that showed up a couple years later that were ram/raster based and could understand the same graphic instructions. While I'm sure others here will remember these terminals, I never understood well how they worked with the write/refresh/scan/erase cycles. Anyone remember the details? *David Barber* ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> From: Ric Werme X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #119 Lines: 29 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 23:57:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.91.12.63 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.ne.mediaone.net 970617437 24.91.12.63 (Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:57:17 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:57:17 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed.icl.net!netnews.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!cyclone-0.nyroc.rr.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.8.70!typhoon.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65330 "David C. Barber" writes: >I remember using some Tektronics raster storage tube graphic terminals in >the mid to later 70s. A predecessor was the ARDS (I guess Advanced Research Display Terminal?). The Comp Sci dept at C-MU had one on their PDP-10. Came with a very early mouse. Used the Tektronix storage tube. >While I'm sure others here will remember these terminals, I never understood >well how they worked with the write/refresh/scan/erase cycles. Anyone >remember the details? I'm not real good on the physics, but a lot of it depended on writing with a strong electron beam that either left a negative charge or blasted away electrons and left a positive charge. A "flood" current, a low energy current that covered the whole screen, maintained the stored image. The erase cycle had a flash of green (high energy flood?) and a fraction of second without flooding. The non-persistant stuff was just vector graphics with a low energy beam, enough to trigger photons, not enough to affect the charge build up on the phosphor. There was a pot to control the flood current. Too little and it faded away, too much and a green patch would grow in the display area. -- Ric Werme | werme@nospam.mediaone.net http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme | ^^^^^^^ delete ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Date: 03 Oct 2000 22:49:31 -0600 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 27 Message-ID: <1b8zs5tdlw.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu> References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <39DA709E.A2566F9B@prescienttech.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: viper.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 970634986 4701 128.123.64.113 (4 Oct 2000 04:49:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Oct 2000 04:49:46 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed.icl.net!netnews.com!feeder.qis.net!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!atl1-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65315 "Carl R. Friend" writes: > > Some of these tubes could actually "read out" the contents of > their screens by using a low-intensity scan from the main gun and > reading the resultant voltage changes on the faceplate anode. They were actually used as a memory technology in the early days. Whirlwind originally used storage tube memory, but (according to the book, anyway, Whirlwind was operational before I was born) reliability concerns led that project to invent core memory as a replacement. > They were a lot of fun, but were a *bear* to calibrate and > maintain. I was glad to see them go, but am happy that some people > are collecting them for the sake of posterity. I always thought they were just too cool for words when I used them in the late '70s. I rmemeber how bitterly disappointed I was in 1980 or so when Tek broght out a raster display, whose storage tube emulation mode turned out to be buggy (looking back on it, I wonder if the problem actually was that it was slow, and we weren't using flow control.... it was definitely slow, and I don't remember whether whether our applications had any sort of flow control or not). -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer VL 2000 Homepage: http://www.cs.orst.edu/~burnett/vl2000/ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> Reply-To: sarr@umich.edu Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals From: sarr@engin.umich.edu (Sarr J. Blumson) Lines: 25 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 14:26:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.75.146.69 X-Trace: news.itd.umich.edu 970669604 207.75.146.69 (Wed, 04 Oct 2000 10:26:44 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 10:26:44 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!RRZ.Uni-Koeln.DE!news.netcologne.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!sarr Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65310 In article , Ric Werme wrote: >"David C. Barber" writes: > >>I remember using some Tektronics raster storage tube graphic terminals in >>the mid to later 70s. > >A predecessor was the ARDS (I guess Advanced Research Display Terminal?). >The Comp Sci dept at C-MU had one on their PDP-10. Came with a very early >mouse. Used the Tektronix storage tube. One of the first (maybe _the_ first) MIT technology spinoffs, IIRC; the ARDS was first developed under a DARPA grant. Very new economy. Unfortunately their production models were put together like prototypes and the Tektronix 4002 (the first, in 1970 I think) drove them under. Of course Tektronix also used the tubes to build oscilloscopes that could capture transient traces without going to digital. -- -------- Sarr Blumson sarr@umich.edu voice: +1 734 764 0253 home: +1 734 665 9591 ITD, University of Michigan http://www-personal.umich.edu/~sarr/ 519 W William, Ann Arbor, MI 48103-4943 ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNLT Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0803 (Gnus v5.8.3) Emacs/20.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 14:30:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.245.9.92 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 970669837 209.245.9.92 (Wed, 04 Oct 2000 07:30:37 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 07:30:37 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ix.netcom.com!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65287 "David C. Barber" writes: > I remember using some Tektronics raster storage tube graphic terminals in > the mid to later 70s. They had a green screen that an image could be > "written" into that would glow brightly until "erased". There was also a > "write-through" mode that wasn't permanent. When used as an ASCII terminal, IBM also had a special version of them that attached as a "co-screen" to a 3270 terminal ... that effectively allowed "cheap" 2250/3250 ... and would run at channel speeds (or at least 3270 controller speeds, 640kbytes/sec .. that is bytes not bits). -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com, finger for pgp key http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ ###### Message-ID: <39DB426C.26F757B8@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 42 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 14:49:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.15.102.183 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 970670947 63.15.102.183 (Wed, 04 Oct 2000 07:49:07 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 07:49:07 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!europa.netcrusader.net!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65294 Ric Werme wrote: > "David C. Barber" writes: > > >I remember using some Tektronics raster storage tube graphic terminals in > >the mid to later 70s. > > A predecessor was the ARDS (I guess Advanced Research Display Terminal?). > The Comp Sci dept at C-MU had one on their PDP-10. Came with a very early > mouse. Used the Tektronix storage tube. Hi Ric, I recall this beast sitting just outside the PDP-10 room on the 4th floor of Scaife Hall (in the old G-20 printer room). It is certainly the first place I ever saw or heard of a "mouse". I vaguely recall that the "tracking device" on the "bottom" of the mouse was a couple of metal wheels at 90 degree angles from each other, not a "mouse ball". I think it had three buttons (long live three button mice, death to two button "M$" mice :-) as well. > There was a pot to control the flood current. Too little and it faded > away, too much and a green patch would grow in the display area. IIRC, having it turned up enough to get the image to "stick" was also enough so that over several minutes, the "green patch" would take over. IIRC there was a "scope camera" available to catch that image before this happened. Based on what another post said, I did not realize they had a read back capability, somewhat like the "storage tube" technology used for early computer memories (Whirlwind and the Williams Tube). Both of these were relatively fast but suffered from reliability problems. Chris AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: jsaum@world.std.com (Jim Saum) Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Sender: news@world.std.com (Mr Usenet Himself) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:36:04 GMT References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp0c070.std.com Organization: Software Tool & Die X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Lines: 44 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news.umass.edu!world!jsaum Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65278 In article , Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: >"David C. Barber" writes: > >> I remember using some Tektronics raster storage tube graphic terminals in >> the mid to later 70s. They had a green screen that an image could be >> "written" into that would glow brightly until "erased". There was also a >> "write-through" mode that wasn't permanent. When used as an ASCII terminal, > >IBM also had a special version of them that attached as a "co-screen" >to a 3270 terminal ... that effectively allowed "cheap" 2250/3250 >... and would run at channel speeds (or at least 3270 controller >speeds, 640kbytes/sec .. that is bytes not bits). We had a number of these "3277GA" terminals. The combined terminal (3277 terminal, storage tube, and joystick) took a lot of desk space, but was versatile and quite fast. The storage tube was the same as in the Tek 4014, considerably larger than the Tek 4010's. We also had a bunch of Tek 401x's that were attached to hosts via (mostly 9600 bps) serial lines. Except when writing long vectors, the serially-attached 401x's were linespeed-limited, so the channel-attached 3277GA's performed better. Unfortunately, the 3277GA wouldn't actually emulate a 2250. (The IBM 2250 was a CRT-based calligraphic display, like most high-end graphics displays of that period.) We had an aging 2250 application that kept running on a 2250 into the early 80's, until replaced with an upward-compatible 3250. There were enough basic architectural differences between calligraphic displays and storage tubes that an emulator would have been a challenge. IIRC, the 3277GA was an RPQ (nonstandard) product, and was aimed mainly at the "technical graphics" (scientific, engineering, academic) market as opposed to the "business graphics" (bar graphs, pie charts) market. When the second-generation 3278 monochrome and 3279 color models came out and the new 3279's had some graphics capability, the 3277GA faded away. Many technical graphics customers were disappointed that the 3279 was really limited to business graphics only. The software supporting 3279 graphics was called the Graphical Display Data Manager (GDDM). Some frustrated 3279 users took to pronouncing "GDDM" by supplying missing vowels. - Jim Saum ###### From: jwstephens@home.nospam.com (Jim Stephens) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals (buying items that never worked that well when new) Message-ID: <39dab0c8.467771290@news> References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 04:27:51 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.16.179.69 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.alsv1.occa.home.com 970633671 24.16.179.69 (Tue, 03 Oct 2000 21:27:51 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 21:27:51 PDT Organization: @Home Network Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.alsv1.occa.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65322 On Tue, 03 Oct 2000 23:57:17 GMT, Ric Werme wrote: I had a graphics display made by general automation called a "computek" terminal which used a 17" or 19" tektronics storage tube, similar to the later model storage tubes. The display could be "read" back after being painted, the printed, or could be erased with the standard tektronics flood. anyone interested, there is a tektronics storage display "printer" tube in a local store in Los Angeles, which is just a 14" by 1/4" version of the display tube that replayed the results scanned from the tektronics display for photo sensitive paper, which was then fixed. I had a couple of fully functional units available when I was in school in 1976, but always avoided them as a junker because of the chemistry, and poor performance when I had a real store bought version. anyone else avoided buying scrap items because they never worked when they had the real supported version, or just the opposite, bought it anyway? Jim ###### From: jsw@spammers.blow.ivgate.omahug.org (jsw) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Date: 4 Oct 00 14:57:11 GMT Organization: Omaha Heath-Zenith Users Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.40.10.33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!209.50.235.254!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!news.washington1.Level3.net!Level3.net!novia!news.omahug.org!jsw Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65443 Ric Werme writes: >The non-persistant stuff was just vector graphics with a low energy >beam, enough to trigger photons, not enough to affect the charge build up >on the phosphor. >There was a pot to control the flood current. Too little and it faded >away, too much and a green patch would grow in the display area. I remember these. We had one on a PDP-11. I remember the stored image would blur significantly over several minutes. We had a printer which I seldom if ever used, which would print out a screen-scrape of the image. IIRC, these were the same technology as the 'storage' oscilloscopes of the time, just a larger tube. Good day JSW ###### From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:49:50 -0400 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 42 Message-ID: <39DA709E.A2566F9B@prescienttech.com> References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: JEf4Tsjgcc5T/sV6zRBHyPdGWhKR0SsBIqmudH/GkQU= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Oct 2000 23:49:52 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.germany.net!news.vas-net.net!newsfeed.icl.net!netnews.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65456 "David C. Barber" wrote: > > While I'm sure others here will remember these terminals, I never > understood well how they worked with the write/refresh/scan/erase > cycles. Anyone remember the details? The quick and dirty of it: The tubes weren't driven with rasters, they were driven in pure analogue mode (which is why the curves looked _so_ nice). There were two (three, actually) intensities that the electron beam could be operated at: Write, Write-through (a reduced intensity), and (off). A write-through intensity was usually used to put a cursor on the screen and wasn't stored. Storage was taken care of by using a high-intensity beam from the electron gun which, IIRC, put a charge on the phosphor coating on the inside of the tube face. A second gun (several, actually) just above the "neck" of the tube continually flooded the screen with a "bath" of electrons which kept the charged areas illuminated. To clear the screen, the faceplate anode was pushed sharply positive and the flood guns sent to full power (creating the green flash) and then both dropped away to allow the charges to dissipate, and were then brought back up for normal operations. Some of these tubes could actually "read out" the contents of their screens by using a low-intensity scan from the main gun and reading the resultant voltage changes on the faceplate anode. They were a lot of fun, but were a *bear* to calibrate and maintain. I was glad to see them go, but am happy that some people are collecting them for the sake of posterity. -- +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com +---------------------+ | http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: 42:22N 71:47W | +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ ###### From: "David C. Barber" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:53:20 -0700 Organization: CTSnet Internet Services Lines: 14 Message-ID: <8rg5fa$1rkk$2@thoth.cts.com> References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> X-Trace: thoth.cts.com 970692908 61076 208.167.188.100 (4 Oct 2000 20:55:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cts.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!news.csl-gmbh.net!blackbush.xlink.net!renate.komtel.net!news.tele.dk!216.218.192.242!news.he.net!mercury.cts.com!thoth.cts.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65363 Screen-scrape. I like that description. *David Barber* "jsw" wrote in message news:jsw.970671431@ivgate.omahug.org... > Ric Werme writes: > > blur significantly over several minutes. We had a printer which I seldom if > ever used, which would print out a screen-scrape of the image. ###### From: William Donzelli Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 02:02:57 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <8rgnge$2to$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <39DA709E.A2566F9B@prescienttech.com> <1b8zs5tdlw.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.254.191.101 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Oct 05 02:02:57 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC, Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x52.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 165.254.191.101 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDaw288 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65361 In article <1b8zs5tdlw.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu>, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > They were actually used as a memory technology in the early days. > Whirlwind originally used storage tube memory, but (according to the > book, anyway, Whirlwind was operational before I was born) reliability > concerns led that project to invent core memory as a replacement. All of the different "memory tubes" - and there are a whole bunch of different types - actually were developed not for computer use, but for the signal processors in larger radar sets. Some of these sets predate many of the computers that used storage tubes. The computer folks saw a good thing in them, but for some reason never managed to get them to work well. William Donzelli Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <39DB426C.26F757B8@earthlink.net> From: Ric Werme X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #119 Lines: 49 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 03:00:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.91.12.63 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.ne.mediaone.net 970714848 24.91.12.63 (Wed, 04 Oct 2000 23:00:48 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 23:00:48 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!diskussionsgruppsnyhedsmeddelandetsMangler.inet.tele.dk!209.50.235.254!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.37!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!chnws02.mediaone.net!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.8.70!typhoon.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65412 jchausler writes: >Ric Werme wrote: >> "David C. Barber" writes: >> >> >I remember using some Tektronics raster storage tube graphic terminals in >> >the mid to later 70s. >> >> A predecessor was the ARDS (I guess Advanced Research Display Terminal?). >> The Comp Sci dept at C-MU had one on their PDP-10. Came with a very early >> mouse. Used the Tektronix storage tube. >I recall this beast sitting just outside the PDP-10 room on the 4th floor of >Scaife Hall (in the old G-20 printer room). It is certainly the first place >I ever saw or heard of a "mouse". I vaguely recall that the "tracking >device" on the "bottom" of the mouse was a couple of metal wheels at >90 degree angles from each other, not a "mouse ball". Now the ball just rotates around the pickup roller. Of course, ya gotta keep your mouse balls clean, but that's other folklore. Yeah, the mouse ball idea was a remarkably good solution to dragging a wheel across an old listing (the mousepad of the era). I think it had >three buttons (long live three button mice, death to two button "M$" >mice :-) as well. It also slept - the mouse was a lot taller than current ones and you could put it on its side. That would disable the mouse's cursor for times you didn't want it cluttering the screen or if the non-persist display wasn't to non-persistant that day. >> There was a pot to control the flood current. Too little and it faded >> away, too much and a green patch would grow in the display area. >IIRC there was a "scope camera" available to catch that image before >this happened. Ah yes, Polaroid camera mountd on a oversized 'scope hood to block stray light. May well have been a Tektronix part. >Based on what another post said, I did not realize they had a read back >capability, IIRC the ARDS did not have that, but the Tektronix displays did. -- Ric Werme | werme@nospam.mediaone.net http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme | ^^^^^^^ delete ###### Message-ID: <39DC2FE4.AC3B7866@ev1.net> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 00:38:12 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <39DA709E.A2566F9B@prescienttech.com> <1b8zs5tdlw.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu> <8rgnge$2to$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: taydal-144-92.ev1.net X-Trace: 5 Oct 2000 00:38:50 -0500, taydal-144-92.ev1.net Lines: 26 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!europa.netcrusader.net!63.211.125.72!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone1.usenetserver.com!nntp.msen.com!nntp1.savvis.net!nntp2.savvis.net!newsa.ev1.net!taydal-144-92.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65416 William Donzelli wrote: > > In article <1b8zs5tdlw.fsf@viper.cs.nmsu.edu>, > Joe Pfeiffer wrote: > > > They were actually used as a memory technology in the early days. > > Whirlwind originally used storage tube memory, but (according to the > > book, anyway, Whirlwind was operational before I was born) reliability > > concerns led that project to invent core memory as a replacement. > > All of the different "memory tubes" - and there are a whole bunch of > different types - actually were developed not for computer use, but for > the signal processors in larger radar sets. Some of these sets predate > many of the computers that used storage tubes. The computer folks saw a > good thing in them, but for some reason never managed to get them to > work well. > That's probably why the CRT memory was called a William's tube. IIRC this memory for computers was invented by Freddy Williams, who was a radar engineer in World War II. Many systems used this technology, including the EDSAC at Cambridge, England, and some of the early IBM machines. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: scjones@thor.sdrc.com (Larry Jones) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Date: 5 Oct 2000 19:43:46 GMT Organization: Structural Dynamics Research Corp. Lines: 29 Distribution: world Message-ID: <8rilli$p72@nfs0.sdrc.com> References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> Reply-To: larry.jones@sdrc.com NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.sdrc.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!btnet-peer!btnet!dca1-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!newsfeed.fuse.net!sdrc.com!thor.sdrc.com!scjones Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65468 Jim Saum (jsaum@world.std.com) wrote: > > Many technical graphics customers were disappointed > that the 3279 was really limited to business graphics only. Boy, was it. When the 3279 first came out, I was working for a large IBM customer and we got an early preview of it. I admitted that I found it an amazing device. Who but IBM could create a graphics terminal that actually *required* a mainframe computer and channel-attached communication speeds to create simple business graphics? :-) For those who don't know, the 3279's sole "graphics function" was that it had a downloadable character set. The way you drew a picture was to render it into a bitmap on the host computer and then break the bitmap up into character size pieces, download the first (256?) set of character definitions, send data to use them to draw the first part of the picture, download the next set of character definitions, etc. Of course, you could use a single character definition to draw large areas that were the same color (or pattern, provided the patern repeat matched the character size), but even typical business graphics like pie and bar charts with large areas of solid colors typically required downloading three or four sets of character definitions. I found the whole concept quite amusing. I don't think our IBM sales rep. appreciated it, though. -Larry Jones Hmm... That might not be politic. -- Calvin ###### From: nasadowsk@nospam.mail.hartford.edu (Philip Nasadowski) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:44:06 -0400 Organization: Student/biker/metalhead from HELL!!! Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <39DB426C.26F757B8@earthlink.net> X-Trace: bob.news.rcn.net 970803852 9563 208.58.249.70 (6 Oct 2000 03:44:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Oct 2000 03:44:12 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!nasadowsk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65537 In article , Ric Werme wrote: > Ah yes, Polaroid camera mountd on a oversized 'scope hood to block > stray light. May well have been a Tektronix part. I've got a Tek 545A scope at home with a camera. The back is Polaroid, the shutter is some other company, but the rest is Tek. Takes nice pics once you get it working right. Minehas a thing to look in there while it's over the screen, but i swingit out of the way and keep it there most of the time. except when the scope's off, cause I keep it in my room and the screen has this errie green glow at night (even when unplugged an off for a few days - my brother's TV is like this too, I can't stand it) ###### From: andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Date: 6 Oct 2000 11:07:49 GMT Organization: home Message-ID: <8rkbq5$joh@cucumber.demon.co.uk> References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cucumber X-NNTP-Posting-Host: cucumber.demon.co.uk:158.152.58.86 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 970830807 nnrp-14:28615 NO-IDENT cucumber.demon.co.uk:158.152.58.86 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.6 Lines: 27 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!cucumber.demon.co.uk!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65528 In article <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com>, "David C. Barber" writes: >I remember using some Tektronics raster storage tube graphic terminals in >the mid to later 70s. They had a green screen that an image could be >"written" into that would glow brightly until "erased". There was also a >"write-through" mode that wasn't permanent. When used as an ASCII terminal, >it would write one column of data down the left side, and then write a >second column starting in the middle -- sometimes with line wrap problems. There were 3 models I came across (and used to drive with FORTRAN programs on a GEC4000 series minicomputer): 4010 - completely flat screen, and from memory about 9" diagonal 4012 - same as 4010 but had the addition of lower case in the hardware character set 4014 - twice the size (4 x screen area), but screen was spherical rather than flat. If you want to reminisce, the standard unix "xterm" supports a Tektronics 4014 emulation mode... xterm -t -fg green -bg black -xrm 'xterm*cursorColor: darkgreen' -- Andrew Gabriel Consultant Software Engineer ###### From: glass2@glass2.lexington.ibm.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Date: 6 Oct 2000 13:35:34 GMT Organization: IBM Austin Lines: 26 Message-ID: <8rkkf6$ikc$2@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <39DB426C.26F757B8@earthlink.net> Reply-To: wa4qal@vnet.ibm.com NNTP-Posting-Host: glass2.cv.lexington.ibm.com X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.twtelecom.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!an02.austin.ibm.com!ausnews.austin.ibm.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65536 In , nasadowsk@nospam.mail.hartford.edu (Philip Nasadowski) writes: >In article , Ric Werme > wrote: > >> Ah yes, Polaroid camera mountd on a oversized 'scope hood to block >> stray light. May well have been a Tektronix part. > >I've got a Tek 545A scope at home with a camera. The back is Polaroid, >the shutter is some other company, but the rest is Tek. Takes nice pics >once you get it working right. Minehas a thing to look in there while >it's over the screen, but i swingit out of the way and keep it there most >of the time. except when the scope's off, cause I keep it in my room and >the screen has this errie green glow at night (even when unplugged an off >for a few days - my brother's TV is like this too, I can't stand it) Aren't long persistence phosphors great? :*) Have you tried drawing on one in the dark with a flashlight? It's been years since I've tried that, but I seem to remember that a red laser doesn't have enough energy to activate the phosphor, even though the intensity is higher. Might be fun to try with a greed laser, or perhaps even a blue LED might work. Now, where's that ultraviolet laser when I need it? :*) Dave P.S. Standard Disclaimer: I work for them, but I don't speak for them. ###### Message-ID: <39DDE880.771823BF@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <39DB426C.26F757B8@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 37 Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 15:02:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.15.101.230 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 970844529 63.15.101.230 (Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:02:09 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:02:09 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65482 Ric Werme wrote: > jchausler writes: > > >IIRC there was a "scope camera" available to catch that image before > >this happened. > > Ah yes, Polaroid camera mountd on a oversized 'scope hood to block > stray light. May well have been a Tektronix part. I believe it was. In the early 80's when Kodak got into the instant camera field they marketed an inexpensive hood sized for a 13 inch monitor attached to their instant camera (with a close-up lens). I acquired one of those and for several years would use it to photograph sample images from color CRT's to send to customers to show them what their systems would look like when installed. When Kodak was forced out of the business, I ran around all the local photo stores and bought up all the instant film for the camera I could find. I kept it in a refrigerator and thus was able to extend the usefulness of the camera/hood for several years. Going back to the 60's and college, polaroid pictures were not all that inexpensive. As student's in engineering labs, instead of using a "scope camera" to take pictures of scope images, we were given pads of "stick-on" "see-through" (obviously) removable (also obviously) labels marked with the x and y axis just as the scope face. The student would stick them on the scope face with a trace shown on the scope that he/she wanted to save and then "trace the trace" on the label with a pen or pencil. The label would then be removed from the scope face and pasted in the student's lab book. Do you remember these and I wonder if anyone else does and if they're still in use today? AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ ###### From: "Peter Smith" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <39DB426C.26F757B8@earthlink.net> <39DDE880.771823BF@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:47:04 -0700 Lines: 33 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 NNTP-Posting-Host: ip161.gte3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com Message-ID: <39de10bd$1_2@news.nwlink.com> X-Trace: 6 Oct 2000 10:49:49 -0700, ip161.gte3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com Organization: Northwest Link Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newspeer1.nac.net!newsfeed.nwlink.com!news.nwlink.com!ip161.gte3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65485 "jchausler" wrote in message news:39DDE880.771823BF@earthlink.net... > > > Going back to the 60's and college, polaroid pictures were not all that > inexpensive. As student's in engineering labs, instead of using a "scope > camera" to take pictures of scope images, we were given pads of > "stick-on" "see-through" (obviously) removable (also obviously) labels > marked with the x and y axis just as the scope face. The student would > stick them on the scope face with a trace shown on the scope that he/she > wanted to save and then "trace the trace" on the label with a pen or > pencil. The label would then be removed from the scope face and > pasted in the student's lab book. Do you remember these and I wonder > if anyone else does and if they're still in use today? > Ha! Carnegie-Mellon University was using those in the 80's when I went to school there. I remember them as producing very unappealing results -- the trace was always sloppy and crooked. Blah! Peter ###### Message-ID: <39DE29DB.BF182C56@uchicago.edu> From: Simon Allaway Organization: University of Chicago X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <8rkbq5$joh@cucumber.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.135.145.16 X-Trace: uchinews 970860883 128.135.145.16 (Fri, 06 Oct 2000 14:34:43 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 14:34:43 CDT Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 14:36:59 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!uchinews!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65473 Andrew Gabriel wrote: > > If you want to reminisce, the standard unix "xterm" supports a Tektronics > 4014 emulation mode... > > xterm -t -fg green -bg black -xrm 'xterm*cursorColor: darkgreen' Well, I can't reminisce about something I never did, but that really does work. Looks great too. Nice and retro. I have 'tail -f /var/adm/syslog' running like that now. Groovy. -- Simon Allaway | "It's not a firewall, University of Chicago | it's a leather pouch." 5-4390 Haskell Hall | - Anon. ###### Sender: Ian Stirling From: Ian Stirling Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <39DB426C.26F757B8@earthlink.net> <8rkkf6$ikc$2@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> User-Agent: tin/1.5.6-20000803 ("Dust") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.0-test7 (i586)) Lines: 22 Message-ID: X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: support@usenetserver.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 19:04:24 EDT Organization: WebUseNet Corp http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 23:04:24 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone1.usenetserver.com!news-east.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65463 glass2@glass2.lexington.ibm.com wrote: >In , n >Aren't long persistence phosphors great? :*) Have you tried drawing on >one in the dark with a flashlight? It's been years since I've tried that, >but I seem to remember that a red laser doesn't have enough energy to >activate the phosphor, even though the intensity is higher. Might be fun >to try with a greed laser, or perhaps even a blue LED might work. Now, ^^^^ Hmm, take a corridor with two mirrors at the ends, fill with a mixture of venture capitalists and geeks? -- http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling. ---------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------- Pieces of eight! Pieces of eight! Pieces of eight! Pieces of eight! Pieces of eight! Pieces of nine! ###### From: Ron Wellsted Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 13:38:37 GMT Message-ID: <20001007.13383700@ron-ws.wellsted> Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <8rkbq5$joh@cucumber.demon.co.uk> <39DE29DB.BF182C56@uchicago.edu> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers X-Newsreader: Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; StarOffice/5.2;Linux) X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-1-130.cvx4.telinco.net X-Original-Trace: 7 Oct 2000 19:31:02 +0100, ppp-1-130.cvx4.telinco.net Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: news2.cluster1.telinco.net X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: news2.cluster1.telinco.net X-Trace: 7 Oct 2000 19:31:03 GMT, news2.cluster1.telinco.net X-Comments: This message was posted or routed through Intensive Networks Ltd. Please ensure any complaints are directed at the source of the message not a feeder server. 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X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to You may also use our online abuse reporting from: http://www3.intensive.net/abuse.htm X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: lon-news.intensive.net Organization: Intensive Networks Ltd http://www.intensive.net/ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peer.news.nildram.co.uk!peernews.cix.co.uk!news.intensive.net!news.telinco.net!tux!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65568 On 06/10/00, 20:36:59, Simon Allaway wrote regardi= ng=20 Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals: > Andrew Gabriel wrote: > > > > If you want to reminisce, the standard unix "xterm" supports a Tektr= onics > > 4014 emulation mode... > > > > xterm -t -fg green -bg black -xrm 'xterm*cursorColor: darkgreen'= > Well, I can't reminisce about something I never did, but that really > does work. Looks great too. Nice and retro. I have 'tail -f > /var/adm/syslog' running like that now. Groovy. But a 'clear' doesn't give the green flash of the erase... ;-) We had some of these at the university of sussex (1975-7) which I=20 remember using and again on a vibration test rig at my first job in 1978= .=20 The trick was to get the flood beam just right, so the image would stay= =20 stable for 30+ mins, though the flood beam would usually break through=20 giving large blobs after 10+ mins usually --=20 Ron Wellsted, E-mail: ron@wellsted.org.uk http://www.wellsted.org.uk ###### From: jmason@aol.com (JMason) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 07 Oct 2000 15:45:30 GMT References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20001007114530.11984.00000219@ng-cq1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65590 I believe these Tektronix tubes survive to this day in the FAA's air traffic controller displays. They were certainly in use in 1990 when I worked a contract for TRW on the FAA's attempt to upgrade to raster scan displays (Advanced Automation Project). To my knowledge the AAP failed after two billion dollars, and the old "stroke" displays were retained. John Mason Morro Bay California ###### Message-ID: <39DF512A.9D3414E8@cmc.com> Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 09:36:58 -0700 From: Lars Poulsen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: da,en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <20001007114530.11984.00000219@ng-cq1.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.154.106.6 X-Trace: azure.impulse.net 970936722 194 207.154.106.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!machtgarnix.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!news.netcologne.de!sienna.impulse.net!azure.impulse.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65607 JMason wrote: > I believe these Tektronix tubes survive to this day in the FAA's air traffic > controller displays. They were certainly in use in 1990 when I worked a > contract for TRW on the FAA's attempt to upgrade to raster scan displays > (Advanced Automation Project). To my knowledge the AAP failed after two > billion dollars, and the old "stroke" displays were retained. Radar displays are not storage displays, just regular CRTs with a slow-fading phosphor. -- / Lars Poulsen - http://www.cmc.com/lars - lars@cmc.com 125 South Ontare Road, Santa Barbara, CA 93105 - +1-805-569-5277 ###### From: jmason@aol.com (JMason) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 07 Oct 2000 19:30:30 GMT References: <39DF512A.9D3414E8@cmc.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20001007153030.28226.00000764@ng-fe1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!nextra.com!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65588 "Radar displays are not storage displays, just regular CRTs with a slow-fading phosphor." These displays are (were?) not radar PPIs. Called PVDs (plan view displays?) they are computer-driven terminals with trackball controlled cursors installed about 1963. And believe me, the tubes are exactly the Tektronix stroke displays referred to in the original post. The controllers love them because they are very fast and very clear (but lack color). The backup Air Traffic Control system does have direct radar PPIs. But reading a PPI requires a lot more skill than working with the PVDs. ###### From: Dave Daniels Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 16:04:58 +0100 Organization: None Lines: 24 Message-ID: <4a09ccb262a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <8rilli$p72@nfs0.sdrc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: useray66.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 971013321 23874 62.188.139.156 (8 Oct 2000 13:55:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Oct 2000 13:55:21 GMT User-Agent: Pluto/1.14i (RISC-OS/4.03) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!argonet.co.uk!argbq79 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65722 In article <8rilli$p72@nfs0.sdrc.com>, Larry Jones wrote: > render it into a bitmap on the host computer and then break the bitmap > up into character size pieces, download the first (256?) set of > character definitions, send data to use them to draw the first part of And if you exceeded the capacity of the terminal's symbol set memory it displayed '*', if I recall correctly. Then who can forget thethe 'screen lightning' when the symbol set was being downloaded? I can also recall that you had to put a battery in a 3279, but I cannot remember what its purpose was. Dave Daniels -- ANTISPAM: Please note that the email address above is false. My correct address is: dave_danielsargonetcouk Please replace the and s with @ and . respectively when replying - Thanks! ###### From: Dave Daniels Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 16:06:55 +0100 Organization: None Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4a09ccdfe1a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <8rkbq5$joh@cucumber.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: useray66.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 971013328 23874 62.188.139.156 (8 Oct 2000 13:55:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Oct 2000 13:55:28 GMT User-Agent: Pluto/1.14i (RISC-OS/4.03) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!machtgarnix.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!argonet.co.uk!argbq79 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65735 In article <8rkbq5$joh@cucumber.demon.co.uk>, Andrew Gabriel wrote: > If you want to reminisce, the standard unix "xterm" supports a Tektronics > 4014 emulation mode... Does anybody have a list of the control codes used to to draw lines and so forth on a Tektronics screen of this type? Dave Daniels -- ANTISPAM: Please note that the email address above is false. My correct address is: dave_danielsargonetcouk Please replace the and s with @ and . respectively when replying - Thanks! ###### Message-ID: <39E0A5AD.DBAE4BB0@ev1.net> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 09:49:49 -0700 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <8rkbq5$joh@cucumber.demon.co.uk> <4a09ccdfe1a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: taydal-144-138.ev1.net X-Trace: 8 Oct 2000 09:46:20 -0500, taydal-144-138.ev1.net Lines: 213 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!machtgarnix.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!nntp.msen.com!nntp1.savvis.net!nntp2.savvis.net!newsa.ev1.net!taydal-144-138.ev1.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65757 Dave Daniels wrote: > > In article <8rkbq5$joh@cucumber.demon.co.uk>, > Andrew Gabriel wrote: > > If you want to reminisce, the standard unix "xterm" supports a Tektronics > > 4014 emulation mode... > > Does anybody have a list of the control codes used to to draw > lines and so forth on a Tektronics screen of this type? > I found the following in a listing of email messages on the net. Maybe it will have enough info for you. I have a reference card somewhere and I might post more if I can find it... -------------------------- Tektronix 4010 Protocol: Oliver McBryan Below are the exact protocols for a Tektronix 4010 Terminal. What you do is to compute certain characters based on the desired coordinates of lines to be drawn, and then send the characters to the screen, which is standard output. Typically you would use putchar() to do this. If you have access to a Tektronix or a Tektronix compatible terminal then this will work fine. However, more usefully, X windows has the capability to emulate a Tektronix window. See the notes at the end on using X (xterm -tek) to implement a Tek Window. The following summarizes the characters (bytes) you need to send to a Tektronix compatible terminal to implement basic graphics primitives. Screen Dimensions The screen is of size 1024x780. All coordinates are integers. Coordinates range over 0<=x<1024, 0<=y<780. Terminal Modes There are two terminal modes: ALPHA and VECTOR. You are always in one or the other. ALPHA mode is used for writing text, while VECTOR mode is used for drawing lines. switchmode(mode): To switch from ALPHA to VECTOR: send ascii(GS) To switch from VECTOR to ALPHA: send ascii(US) text(string): Switch to ALPHA mode. Send the characters of the string (excluding the terminating null character in C). move(x,y): Switch to VECTOR mode (even if in VECTOR mode) i.e. send ascii(GS). Send x y as a packed coordinate pair: packxy(x,y) cont(x,y): Send x y as a packed coordinate pair: packxy(x,y) (Don't send GS however) packxy(x,y): Send a coordinate pair x,y to the screen in packed form as described in detail below. This amounts to sending four characters to the screen where each pair of characters are determined by x or y respectively. erase(): send ascii(ESC); send ascii(FF); Notes: I have used the standard names for several ascii characters: NAME OCTAL DECIMAL FF 014 12 ESC 033 27 GS 035 29 US 037 31 In all cases ascii(value) is the ascii character at position value in the ascii sequence. For example, ascii(040) = ascii(32) = SPACE character Sending a character simply means printing it to the terminal. In C this is most easily done with putchar(c). For example, putchar(27) will send the ESC character to the screen. You should always begin with an erase to clear the screen. Assume that erase leaves you in ALPHA mode. You should use erase at the end of every frame. I would suggest that you do a sleep(10) before erasing the screen so that you can see the just-drawn picture - or better, pause for the user to input something at a prompt line before erasing! I would also recommend flushing the output (call fflush(stdout) in C) just before doing the sleep (or prompt pause) so as to ensure that all of your drawing is on the screen. Otherwise some or all of it may be hiding in an internal UNIX buffer! The packxy(x,y) Routine: The only tricky item is how to implement the packxy routine I mentioned. The idea is to store 5-bit numbers in C characters (which are 8-bit quantities). Actually only the first 128 characters are ascii characters. Many systems do not allow the other 128 characters to be sent to a terminal or over a phone line. Of the 128 ascii characters, many have special meanings for particular operating systems or machines - for example think of control-C, or control-S - and are not suitable for use as characters to be sent to a screen.. Tektronix had the idea of using more or less only the printing characters such as letters, numbers, symbols, space. Specifically they choose the characters numbered 32 to 127. They then attempted to encode all graphics operations in terms of these characters. Since only 96 characters are involved at most 6-bit numbers can be encoded, and in practice they use only 5 bits with the sixth bit used to indicate whether a coordinate is an x or y. The exact representation is described as follows: A general 10-bit coordinate pair (x,y) is represented as four 5-bit coordinates (hi_x,lo_x,hi_y,lo_y). 1) x,y coords are in 0<=x<1024, 0<=y<780 2) x is represented as a 10-bit binary number: x = b b b b b b b b b b 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 3) Define two 5-bit numbers hi_x = b b b b b 9 8 7 6 5 lo_x = b b b b b . 4 3 2 1 0 Clearly hi_x and lo_x are both in the range 0 <= hi_x, lo_x < 32. 4) Similarly for y define hi_y and lo_y exactly as above.. Before sending to the screen, these 5-bit numbers are stored as 6-bit characters arranged to be >= 32, by adding 32 to each, and with the 6th bit set to record whether they are x or y coords, by adding a further 32 or 64 to the lo_x or lo_y coordinate respectively. In other words, we will actually use the numbers: (hi_x+32, lo_x+64, hi_y+32, lo_y+96) Each of these four numbers represents a corresponding ascii character c, and the point (x,y) is then sent to the terminal by sending the four characters in succession - in the order hi_y+32, lo_y+96, hi_x+32, lo_x+64. So the code for packxy(x,y) reduces to: 1. Compute hi_x and lo_x from x where 0<=x<1024 We define x = 32*hi_x + lo_x with 0 <= hi_x, lo_x < 32 2. Compute hi_y and lo_y from y where 0<=y<780 We define y = 32*hi_y + lo_y with 0 <= hi_y, lo_y < 32 3. putchar(hi_y+32); putchar(lo_y+96); putchar(hi_x+32); putchar(lo_x+64); ############################################################# Finding a Tektronix Terminal If you dont have access to a Tektronix or a Tektronix compatible terminal (and you probably do not!) then it is just as satisfactory to use an emulator. A simple emulator of such terminals is the X11 xterm program. This can be used in two ways: a) run it as xterm -tek b) run it as xterm; when ready to draw graphics, press and Mouse Button 2 simultaneously. This gives a menu with a choice of "Switch to TEK" In either a) or b) just run your program in the window to draw the picture. To run the program just type its name. Note: The xterm program is system dependent. You may need to use man xterm in order to find out how to activate tektronix mode. It might use -tek, -Tek, -t, -T or something else! I suggest writing a 1-page program based on the above with routines text(), move(), cont(), end_frame(), and with a main routine that draws a box with "hello there" in the center. Do it all in integer coords with no windows or viewports etc. Once it is working, the move etc routines can be copied directly to the device-dependent driver for your graphics package i.e. libtek.c. Oliver McBryan; Oliver.McBryan@cs.colorado.edu Phone: 303-6650544 and 303-4923898; Cell: 303-8097804; Fax: 303-4922844 Dept of Computer Science, Univ. of Colorado, Boulder, CO 80309-0430. WWW: http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~mcbryan/Home.html -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <8rilli$p72@nfs0.sdrc.com> From: jata@aepiax.net (Julian Thomas) Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Message-ID: <39e0d141$4$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> X-Newsreader: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v2.2a/20 Lines: 25 Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 19:55:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.224.125.79 X-Complaints-To: abuse@epix.net X-Trace: news1.epix.net 971034947 199.224.125.79 (Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:55:47 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:55:47 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-xfer.epix.net!news1.epix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65724 In <8rilli$p72@nfs0.sdrc.com>, on 10/05/00 at 07:43 PM, scjones@thor.sdrc.com (Larry Jones) said: >> Many technical graphics customers were disappointed >> that the 3279 was really limited to business graphics only. >Boy, was it. When the 3279 first came out, I was working for a large IBM >customer and we got an early preview of it. ISTR that there was a feature/rpq that would do true graphics in a small area - this was intended for signature verification at teller stations and maybe also for manual input for OCR applications where the OCR couldn't make out a character. -- Julian Thomas: jt . epix @ net http://home.epix.net/~jt remove letter a for email (or switch . and @) In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State! Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc http://www.possi.org -- -- Two wrongs are only the beginning. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: jsaum@world.std.com (Jim Saum) Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals Sender: news@world.std.com (Mr Usenet Himself) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:57:25 GMT References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <8rilli$p72@nfs0.sdrc.com> <4a09ccb262a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp0b169.std.com Organization: Software Tool & Die X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Lines: 10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!machtgarnix.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!world!jsaum Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65627 In article <4a09ccb262a__fake__address@127.0.0.1>, Dave Daniels wrote: > ... I can also recall that you had to put a battery >in a 3279, but I cannot remember what its purpose was. IIRC, this was to preserve the CRT color convergence settings. (3279's had user-adjustable convergence.) - Jim Saum ###### Message-ID: <39E1E09A.11989E99@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Tektronics Storage Tube Terminals References: <8rdo51$2kra$1@thoth.cts.com> <39DB426C.26F757B8@earthlink.net> <39DDE880.771823BF@earthlink.net> <39de10bd$1_2@news.nwlink.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:17:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.15.121.219 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 971104660 63.15.121.219 (Mon, 09 Oct 2000 08:17:40 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 08:17:40 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!europa.netcrusader.net!63.211.125.72!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65661 Peter Smith wrote: > Ha! Carnegie-Mellon University was using those in the 80's when > I went to school there. I remember them as producing very > unappealing results -- the trace was always sloppy and crooked. > Blah! Ah......Since the student was the one drawing the trace on the stick-on, I would suggest that it was the student who was "always sloppy and crooked" ;-) Chris (going to CMU homecoming in a couple of weeks) AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$