From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: 18 Sep 2000 09:39:34 -0700 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 10 Message-ID: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-058.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64177 There is a fascinating story in the online New York Times about the early days of Microsoft, the story of how MS Basic became widely pirated, and Gates' infamous reaction: http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/18/technology/18BASI.html There are many interesting aspects to this article. My favorite bit is an image of a business letter from Gates in his own handwriting, it looks like the writing of an 8 year old kid.. ###### From: "David C. Barber" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 13:55:24 -0700 Organization: CTSnet Internet Services Lines: 40 Message-ID: <8q5vil$2r7$1@thoth.cts.com> References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> X-Trace: thoth.cts.com 969310614 2919 208.167.188.100 (18 Sep 2000 20:56:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cts.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newshub.sdsu.edu!ragnarok!thoth.cts.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64156 Interesting article. I was programming Cobol, Fortran, and PL/1 on an S/360 mainframe during 1975. I remember those early computers with the thought at the time that: When an affordable (emphasis on affordable) home computer with serious programming languages that is at least as powerful as those I now have essentially free access to becomes available, THEN I'll buy one. For many years afterwards, there was always enough after hours time available on my employer's much better computers (computers with compiled high level languages, hard drives, good fast printers, and the like) for me to solve any problem of interest to me. Finally around 1993 the technology/price curve reached past the breakeven point, and I spent $1200 for a used reconditioned 386SX 16MHz Toshiba 2000SX, which I still have, though it receives little use these days. But for a lot of time in-between those early computers just didn't have what it took IMHO to do serious problem solving on, and cost more than I cared to spend. *David Barber* "Charles Eicher" wrote in message news:8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com... > There is a fascinating story in the online New York Times about the early days > of Microsoft, the story of how MS Basic became widely pirated, and Gates' > infamous reaction: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/18/technology/18BASI.html > > There are many interesting aspects to this article. My favorite bit is an image > of a business letter from Gates in his own handwriting, it looks like the > writing of an 8 year old kid.. > ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> <8q5vil$2r7$1@thoth.cts.com> Organization: None X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: kragen@dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker) Lines: 36 Message-ID: X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: support@usenetserver.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 20:57:21 EDT Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 00:57:21 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!machtgarnix.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone1.usenetserver.com!news-east.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64141 In article <8q5vil$2r7$1@thoth.cts.com>, David C. Barber wrote: >For many years afterwards, there was always enough after hours time >available on my employer's much better computers (computers with compiled >high level languages, hard drives, good fast printers, and the like) for me >to solve any problem of interest to me. > >Finally around 1993 the technology/price curve reached past the breakeven >point, and I spent $1200 for a used reconditioned 386SX 16MHz Toshiba >2000SX, which I still have, though it receives little use these days. > >But for a lot of time in-between those early computers just didn't have what >it took IMHO to do serious problem solving on, and cost more than I cared to >spend. I suppose it depends on what problems you're trying to solve. PCs have been better for real-time data visualization than certain other popular platforms since the late 1970s, since some of them have always come with built-in real-time bitmapped displays. Likewise, their lack of operating systems made them well-suited for real-time bit-shuffling and music synthesis. And they're easier to carry around, too; even in the 1970s, you could get luggables, and then in the early 1980s there was the TRS-80 Model 100, which you could carry anywhere and type. The main reason they've been popular, though, is that more people could get access to them, and could control them themselves. Folks like you, who could use unlimited after-hours time on their employer's Real Computers, were in the minority ;) -- Kragen Sitaker Perilous to all of us are the devices of an art deeper than we ourselves possess. -- Gandalf the Grey [J.R.R. Tolkien, "Lord of the Rings"] ###### Sender: root@fdn.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> From: gcash Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Date: 18 Sep 2000 22:32:48 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.199.46.32 X-Trace: news1.fdn.com 969330769 216.199.46.32 (Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:32:49 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:32:49 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!208.184.7.66!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!news1.fdn.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64247 Charles Eicher writes: > There is a fascinating story in the online New York Times about the > early days of Microsoft, the story of how MS Basic became widely > pirated, and Gates' infamous reaction: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/18/technology/18BASI.html > > There are many interesting aspects to this article. My favorite bit > is an image of a business letter from Gates in his own handwriting, > it looks like the writing of an 8 year old kid.. Sounds interesting... is there a version somewhere that doesn't require my entering my life's story to access??? -gc ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Terry Kennedy Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" X-Complaints-To: Email abuse@spc.edu if this posting is inappropriate User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (BSD/OS/4.1 (i386)) NNTP-Posting-Host: gate.tmk.com Organization: St. Peter's College, US Message-ID: References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> <8q5vil$2r7$1@thoth.cts.com> X-Trace: spcuna.spc.edu 969333994 11676 terry [204.141.35.61] Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 03:26:35 GMT Lines: 26 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!panix!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!ord-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!news.spc.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64150 David C. Barber writes: > For many years afterwards, there was always enough after hours time > available on my employer's much better computers (computers with compiled > high level languages, hard drives, good fast printers, and the like) for me > to solve any problem of interest to me. Well, 8-bit micros (the 8080 at the time, and later the 8085 and Z-80) let me do things (like modifying the hardware, adding new interfaces, making changes to the OS) that would be frowned on on the larger systems I had access to. And I did have a 600LPM printer (Dataproducts 2260) on my IMSAI 8080. Microsoft had Fortran and BASIC compilers relatively early on. The For- tran one was a true compiler (I met the guy who wrote it later on when he was head of the micro division at Datapoint, when we did the 1550). The BASIC "compiler" was an odd beast. It was built from the same source as BASIC-80, so I assume it was mostly some sort of intermediate code in- terpretation based on BASIC-80, with the interpreter linked in). There was also a COBOL compiler somewhat later which I think was also p-code. Later on they bought the rights to distribute the symbolic math pack- ages from the Soft Warehouse. Terry Kennedy http://www.tmk.com terry@tmk.com Jersey City, NJ USA ###### From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: 19 Sep 2000 06:01:55 -0700 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: <8q7o43$n3v@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-501.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64174 In article , gcash says... > >Charles Eicher writes: > >> There is a fascinating story in the online New York Times about the >> early days of Microsoft, the story of how MS Basic became widely >> pirated, and Gates' infamous reaction: >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/18/technology/18BASI.html >> >> There are many interesting aspects to this article. My favorite bit >> is an image of a business letter from Gates in his own handwriting, >> it looks like the writing of an 8 year old kid.. > >Sounds interesting... is there a version somewhere that doesn't >require my entering my life's story to access??? You could go to the library and get the dead tree version of the NYTimes. Don't be so paranoid. NYTimes.com is a free registration and doesn't require entering anything more than a username and password. ###### From: Dave Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: 19 Sep 2000 10:45:23 -0500 Organization: Disorganization, Inc. Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!news.informatik.uni-muenchen.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64228 In article <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com>, Charles Eicher wrote: > http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/18/technology/18BASI.html Unfortunately you have to register with the NY Times to read their online version - no thanks. BTW, they are the *only* major newspaper with this requirement. Gates was what - 18 (or younger) when this happened? How were *your* business letter writing skills at 18? No one in the "micro computer software business" in 1976 could be considered a "business man". They were *all* kids. You need to keep things like this in perspective! Dave ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: 19 Sep 2000 21:23:58 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 38 Message-ID: <6uzol4yylt.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> <8q7o43$n3v@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 969391439 864 10.0.3.2 (19 Sep 2000 19:23:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Sep 2000 19:23:59 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64254 Charles Eicher writes: > In article , gcash says... > > > >Charles Eicher writes: > > > >> There is a fascinating story in the online New York Times about the > >> early days of Microsoft, the story of how MS Basic became widely > >> pirated, and Gates' infamous reaction: > >> > >> http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/18/technology/18BASI.html > >> > >> There are many interesting aspects to this article. My favorite bit > >> is an image of a business letter from Gates in his own handwriting, > >> it looks like the writing of an 8 year old kid.. > > > >Sounds interesting... is there a version somewhere that doesn't > >require my entering my life's story to access??? Try alt.folklore.computers :-) http://neil.franklin.ch/Usenet/alt.folklore.computers/19990222_Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists > You could go to the library and get the dead tree version of the NYTimes. Travelling, just to access bits? > Don't be so paranoid. NYTimes.com is a free registration and doesn't require > entering anything more than a username and password. Do not feed evil marketroids trying to spy out your life. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:09:49 -0700 Organization: CTSnet Internet Services Lines: 27 Message-ID: <8q8a87$227u$1@thoth.cts.com> References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> X-Trace: thoth.cts.com 969387080 67838 208.167.188.100 (19 Sep 2000 18:11:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cts.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!news.csl-gmbh.net!blackbush.xlink.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!howland.erols.net!nntp.flash.net!mercury.cts.com!thoth.cts.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64256 Your definition of "major" newspaper seems rather limited. The NYT is certainly the only newspaper of its size or larger to have this requirement in their web-site. *David Barber* "Dave" wrote in message news:Nunya-7DEDAE.11185919092000@news1.newscene.com... > In article <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com>, Charles Eicher > wrote: > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/18/technology/18BASI.html > > Unfortunately you have to register with the NY Times to read their > online version - no thanks. BTW, they are the *only* major newspaper > with this requirement. > > Gates was what - 18 (or younger) when this happened? How were *your* > business letter writing skills at 18? No one in the "micro computer > software business" in 1976 could be considered a "business man". They > were *all* kids. > > You need to keep things like this in perspective! > > Dave ###### From: Dave Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: 19 Sep 2000 17:34:52 -0500 Organization: Disorganization, Inc. Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> <8q8a87$227u$1@thoth.cts.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!machtgarnix.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64311 In article <8q8a87$227u$1@thoth.cts.com>, "David C. Barber" wrote: > Your definition of "major" newspaper seems rather limited. The NYT is > certainly the only newspaper of its size or larger to have this > requirement > in their web-site. Um, that's what I said, isn't it? By major I mean American big city newspaper. I can (and do) read the Washington Post, Pittsburgh Post, Chicago Tribune, LA Times, Boston Globe, etc. without "registering". Dave ###### From: "David C. Barber" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:34:24 -0700 Organization: CTSnet Internet Services Lines: 25 Message-ID: <8q8t8r$2jj1$1@thoth.cts.com> References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> <8q8a87$227u$1@thoth.cts.com> X-Trace: thoth.cts.com 969406555 85601 208.167.188.217 (19 Sep 2000 23:35:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cts.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!feeder.via.net!news.he.net!mercury.cts.com!thoth.cts.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64267 The San Diego Union-Tribune site requires free registration, as does the LA Times. Both are the leading paper in their respective cities, and both cities rank in the top 10 in terms of population in the country. *David Barber* "Dave" wrote in message news:Nunya-441D9E.16121419092000@news1.newscene.com... > In article <8q8a87$227u$1@thoth.cts.com>, "David C. Barber" > wrote: > > > Your definition of "major" newspaper seems rather limited. The NYT is > > certainly the only newspaper of its size or larger to have this > > requirement > > in their web-site. > > Um, that's what I said, isn't it? > > By major I mean American big city newspaper. I can (and do) read the > Washington Post, Pittsburgh Post, Chicago Tribune, LA Times, Boston > Globe, etc. without "registering". > > Dave ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: 19 Sep 2000 16:58:44 -0700 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 47 Message-ID: <8q8ujk01llg@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> <8q7o43$n3v@edrn.newsguy.com> <6uzol4yylt.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-194.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64286 In article <6uzol4yylt.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil says... > >Charles Eicher writes: > >> In article , gcash says... >> > >> >Charles Eicher writes: >> > >> >> There is a fascinating story in the online New York Times about the >> >> early days of Microsoft, the story of how MS Basic became widely >> >> pirated, and Gates' infamous reaction: >> >> >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/18/technology/18BASI.html >> >> >> >> There are many interesting aspects to this article. My favorite bit >> >> is an image of a business letter from Gates in his own handwriting, >> >> it looks like the writing of an 8 year old kid.. >> > >> >Sounds interesting... is there a version somewhere that doesn't >> >require my entering my life's story to access??? > >Try alt.folklore.computers :-) > >http://neil.franklin.ch/Usenet/alt.folklore.computers/19990222_Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists I've read that, and it totally fails to explain the context. Incidentally, slashdot.org posted a story with links to a lengthy audiotape interview with Gates shortly after this incident. I'm too lazy to go look it up, you can find it yourself. >> You could go to the library and get the dead tree version of the NYTimes. > >Travelling, just to access bits? He said doesn't want the bits. >> Don't be so paranoid. NYTimes.com is a free registration and doesn't require >> entering anything more than a username and password. > >Do not feed evil marketroids trying to spy out your life. If you were truly a hacker, you would already know how to do what I have done, I added all the major ad servers to my hosts file as 127.0.0.1. This completely eliminates any contact with the marketroids, no packets can ever be exchanged with their servers. There are even preconfigured hosts files of major adservers floating around the net. ###### From: Bruce Tomlin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Organization: San Antonio, TX References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Message-ID: Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:05:24 CDT X-Trace: sv2-uILLIuLMIg5LbMruZm99RtjIQaiYdz73SdUF2rUNBpXFGm5Q5VOfuId9kp0xU4xwhD7GmLLQsZH0gBR!56Sovi8gNmE6FjcbM1Jb3w== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:05:52 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.germany.net!news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news4.giganews.com.POSTED!btomlin Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64309 In article , Dave wrote: > In article <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com>, Charles Eicher > wrote: > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/18/technology/18BASI.html > > Unfortunately you have to register with the NY Times to read their > online version - no thanks. BTW, they are the *only* major newspaper > with this requirement. s/www/partners/ For more details, do some research in the thread on Slashdot. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: 20 Sep 2000 21:39:30 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 57 Message-ID: <6u4s3azwct.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> <8q7o43$n3v@edrn.newsguy.com> <6uzol4yylt.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8q8ujk01llg@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 969478774 1814 10.0.3.2 (20 Sep 2000 19:39:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Sep 2000 19:39:34 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64326 Charles Eicher writes: > In article <6uzol4yylt.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil says... > > > >Try alt.folklore.computers :-) > > > >http://neil.franklin.ch/Usenet/alt.folklore.computers/19990222_Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists > > I've read that, and it totally fails to explain the context. , gcash asked: "is there a version somewhere" Above URL is a version (of the business letter referred). If he ment version of the NYT article, no, he can only get that from the NYT, obviously, copyright you know. > Incidentally, > slashdot.org posted a story with links to a lengthy audiotape interview with > Gates shortly after this incident. I'm too lazy to go look it up, you can find > it yourself. Read about that on Slashdot. No interest in it (as I have no sound card). > >> You could go to the library and get the dead tree version of the NYTimes. > > > >Travelling, just to access bits? > > He said doesn't want the bits. He wants "a version". He said nothing about bits or paper. > >Do not feed evil marketroids trying to spy out your life. > > If you were truly a hacker, you would already know how to do what I have done, I > added all the major ad servers to my hosts file as 127.0.0.1. I use junkbuster for the same effect. That allows finegrained (part-)URL based blocking, not just nuking entire hosts. Good when ads and content are on the same host, or ads split over multi-host systems. > This completely > eliminates any contact with the marketroids, With _known_ marketroids _banner_adds_. Thats 2 limitations. I prefer to not give then anything. Of course one can also register a bunch of invented data :-). -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: "David C. Barber" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" -- hosts file Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:16:02 -0700 Organization: CTSnet Internet Services Lines: 17 Message-ID: <8qb60s$1k3q$1@thoth.cts.com> References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> <8q7o43$n3v@edrn.newsguy.com> <6uzol4yylt.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8q8ujk01llg@edrn.newsguy.com> X-Trace: thoth.cts.com 969481053 53370 208.167.188.100 (20 Sep 2000 20:17:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cts.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!news.csl-gmbh.net!blackbush.xlink.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!pop-news-1.colt-telecom.nl!newsgate.cistron.nl!news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!howland.erols.net!nntp.flash.net!mercury.cts.com!thoth.cts.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64341 I tried that trick as well. Works fine on my WinNT 4 machine, but the Win98 machine doesn't seem to see the hosts file at all. Any suggestions? *David Barber* > If you were truly a hacker, you would already know how to do what I have done, I > added all the major ad servers to my hosts file as 127.0.0.1. This completely > eliminates any contact with the marketroids, no packets can ever be exchanged > with their servers. There are even preconfigured hosts files of major adservers > floating around the net. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" -- hosts file Date: 21 Sep 2000 21:22:18 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 24 Message-ID: <6uitrp4kk5.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> <8q7o43$n3v@edrn.newsguy.com> <6uzol4yylt.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8q8ujk01llg@edrn.newsguy.com> <8qb60s$1k3q$1@thoth.cts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 969564138 686 10.0.3.2 (21 Sep 2000 19:22:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Sep 2000 19:22:18 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64393 "David C. Barber" writes: > > If you were truly a hacker, you would already know how to do what I have > done, I > > added all the major ad servers to my hosts file as 127.0.0.1. This > I tried that trick as well. Works fine on my WinNT 4 machine, but the Win98 > machine doesn't seem to see the hosts file at all. Any suggestions? Try the lmhosts file. Some Windows versions look at that instead. And back to the original "where without registering" question: All www.nytimes.com pages can be read without registration: Just s/www/partners/ or s/www/channel/ in any www.nytimes.com URL. Just found that one today on Slashdot and tested it. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: Dave Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: 22 Sep 2000 21:21:26 -0500 Organization: Disorganization, Inc. Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> <8q8a87$227u$1@thoth.cts.com> <8q8t8r$2jj1$1@thoth.cts.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64549 In article <8q8t8r$2jj1$1@thoth.cts.com>, "David C. Barber" wrote: > The San Diego Union-Tribune site requires free registration, as does the > LA > Times. Both are the leading paper in their respective cities, and both I've been all over the LA Times web site and never had to register. What do you have to register for? Dave > ###### From: "David C. Barber" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:36:14 -0700 Organization: CTSnet Internet Services Lines: 22 Message-ID: <8qod30$1lqk$1@thoth.cts.com> References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> <8q8a87$227u$1@thoth.cts.com> <8q8t8r$2jj1$1@thoth.cts.com> X-Trace: thoth.cts.com 969914273 55124 208.167.188.100 (25 Sep 2000 20:37:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cts.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!nntp.flash.net!mercury.cts.com!thoth.cts.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64721 I've been with LAT for a long time. I had to register at the time to gain access. (This requirement may have changed more recently, but was necessary once.) About all it does is get me their occasional Latte e-mail newsletter. *David Barber* "Dave" wrote in message news:Nunya-5B0B67.22191322092000@news1.newscene.com... > In article <8q8t8r$2jj1$1@thoth.cts.com>, "David C. Barber" > wrote: > > > The San Diego Union-Tribune site requires free registration, as does the > > LA > > Times. Both are the leading paper in their respective cities, and both > > I've been all over the LA Times web site and never had to register. > What do you have to register for? > > Dave ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" From: jimbo@radiks.net (Jim Lawless) X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.3 References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Lines: 24 Message-ID: <%jSz5.344$wC.41352@nntp3.onemain.com> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:44:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.154.159.20 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onemain.com X-Trace: nntp3.onemain.com 969929083 208.154.159.20 (Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:44:43 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:44:43 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!nntp3.onemain.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64794 In article <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com>, ceicher@inav.net says... > > There is a fascinating story in the online New York Times > about the early days of Microsoft, the story of how MS > Basic became widely pirated, and Gates' infamous reaction: > They talk about the price being the catalyst for piracy ($500), but they don't give the whole story. Ed Roberts sold Gates-Allen BASIC for a mere $150 to anyone who actually bought an Altair extended memory board. To everyone else, it was priced at $500. The MITS memory boards were basically junk, so other micro companies like Processor Technology started selling MITS- compatible memory boards. The price-gouging would seem to have been aimed at those who bought memory boards from the non-MITS companies. Jim Lawless | MailSend and MailGrab : Send and jimbo@radiks.net | receive Internet e-mail from batch http://www.radiks.net/jimbo | programs or compiled EXE's. ###### From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: 25 Sep 2000 19:06:45 -0700 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 35 Message-ID: <8qp0bl01hla@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> <%jSz5.344$wC.41352@nntp3.onemain.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-431.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!news.informatik.uni-muenchen.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64757 In article <%jSz5.344$wC.41352@nntp3.onemain.com>, jimbo@radiks.net says... > >In article <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com>, ceicher@inav.net says... >> >> There is a fascinating story in the online New York Times >> about the early days of Microsoft, the story of how MS >> Basic became widely pirated, and Gates' infamous reaction: >> > >They talk about the price being the catalyst for piracy ($500), >but they don't give the whole story. > >Ed Roberts sold Gates-Allen BASIC for a mere $150 to anyone >who actually bought an Altair extended memory board. To >everyone else, it was priced at $500. Microsoft's first case of price fixing and illegal product tying. >The MITS memory boards were basically junk, so other micro >companies like Processor Technology started selling MITS- >compatible memory boards. I bought 2 of the Processor Tech 16K RAM boards, and they were junk too. >The price-gouging would seem to >have been aimed at those who bought memory boards from >the non-MITS companies. Which is why companies like Processor Tech sold their own versions of Basic. I checked my manuals for PT Extended Cassette Basic, it is copyrighted to Processor Tech, no mention of Microsoft. People think Bill Gates must be some coding God for having written a Basic interpreter. It isn't that hard, really. It never has been. ###### From: Dave Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: 28 Sep 2000 08:45:12 -0500 Organization: Disorganization, Inc. Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> <8q8a87$227u$1@thoth.cts.com> <8q8t8r$2jj1$1@thoth.cts.com> <8qod30$1lqk$1@thoth.cts.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!RRZ.Uni-Koeln.DE!news.netcologne.de!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.novia.net.MISMATCH!novia!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:65032 In article <8qod30$1lqk$1@thoth.cts.com>, "David C. Barber" wrote: > I've been with LAT for a long time. I had to register at the time to > gain > access. (This requirement may have changed more recently, but was > necessary > once.) About all it does is get me their occasional Latte e-mail > newsletter. They must have dropped the registration thing a some point then, because you clearly don't have to register these days. IAC, I still won't "register" with the NYT just to read it. Dave ###### From: wiss@eelwing.arda (Jonas Wissting) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NYTimes: The day Gate's MSBasic was "stolen" Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 23:56:07 +0200 Organization: Utfors AB Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <8q5gg6$gr4@edrn.newsguy.com> <%jSz5.344$wC.41352@nntp3.onemain.com> <8qp0bl01hla@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: md4690f76.utfors.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: yggdrasil.utfors.se 970322256 17685 212.105.15.118 (30 Sep 2000 13:57:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@utfors.se NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Sep 2000 13:57:36 GMT X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!news.csl-gmbh.net!blackbush.xlink.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!ams-newsfeed.speedport.net!newsfeed.speedport.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!news.utfors.se!luthien.arda!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:64955 In article <8qp0bl01hla@edrn.newsguy.com>, Charles Eicher writes: ... > People think Bill Gates must be some coding God for having written a Basic > interpreter. It isn't that hard, really. It never has been. I'd rather write a Lisp interpreter than a BASIC one. Is there any formal description of BASIC-syntax? (or other related languages as C++/ForTran?) Jonas -- http://wiss.unx.nu http://linux.unx.nu Another Glitch in the Call We don't need no indirection We don't need no flow control No data typing or declarations Did you leave the lists alone? Hey! Hacker! Leave those lists alone! Chorus: All in all, it's just a pure-LISP function call. All in all, it's just a pure-LISP function call.