From: pvdl@best.com (Peter van der Linden) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Know of any "strategic (ab)use of patents?" Date: 28 Aug 2000 19:27:45 GMT Organization: a user Lines: 13 Message-ID: <8oeefh$1av3$1@nntp1.ba.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell15.ba.best.com X-Trace: nntp1.ba.best.com 967490865 44003 206.184.139.147 (28 Aug 2000 19:27:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@best.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Aug 2000 19:27:45 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!feeder.via.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.ba.best.com!pvdl Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:62659 Definitely not trying to start a flame-fest here, or invite another big debate on "why patents ar ebad for software". Looking for some hard information: - is there any evidence of a company buying another company just so it can own their patents, and use them to prevent a third company from doing something? This story is sometimes told: company A buys company B, so it can own B's patents. B would have licensed the patents to company C, but A deliberately forestalls that to cause problems for C. Any examples in the computer industry or outside it? ###### From: John Ahlstrom Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Know of any "strategic (ab)use of patents?" Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:28:38 -0700 Organization: Ye 'Ol Disorganized NNTPCache groupie Lines: 29 Message-ID: <39AAE796.4C7CA4E2@cisco.com> References: <8oeefh$1av3$1@nntp1.ba.best.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: sj-nntpcache-3!unknown@dhcp-171-68-135-37.cisco.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:62685 Peter van der Linden wrote: > Definitely not trying to start a flame-fest here, or invite > another big debate on "why patents ar ebad for software". > > Looking for some hard information: > - is there any evidence of a company buying another company > just so it can own their patents, and use them to prevent a > third company from doing something? > > This story is sometimes told: company A buys company B, so it > can own B's patents. B would have licensed the patents to > company C, but A deliberately forestalls that to cause problems > for C. Any examples in the computer industry or outside it? I believe that Lotus bought VisiCorp for its GUI patents, killed VisiCalc then sued various other spread sheet companies (perhaps PaperBack software. perhaps Borland) and to prevent itself being sued. See http://www.eff.org/pub/Legal/Cases/Lotus_cases/ JKA -- Any sufficiently well-rigged demo is indistinguishable from advanced technology. ###### From: "David C. Barber" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Know of any "strategic (ab)use of patents?" Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:59:19 -0700 Organization: CTSnet Internet Services Lines: 22 Message-ID: <8of1vk$1gsp$1@thoth.cts.com> References: <8oeefh$1av3$1@nntp1.ba.best.com> X-Trace: thoth.cts.com 967510837 50073 208.167.188.183 (29 Aug 2000 01:00:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cts.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!diablo.theplanet.net!feeder.via.net!news.he.net!mercury.cts.com!thoth.cts.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:62695 How about Commodore buying the company that developed the Amiga chipset (eventually renamed to Amiga) to keep those chips away from Atari? *David Barber* "Peter van der Linden" wrote in message news:8oeefh$1av3$1@nntp1.ba.best.com... > Definitely not trying to start a flame-fest here, or invite > another big debate on "why patents ar ebad for software". > > Looking for some hard information: > - is there any evidence of a company buying another company > just so it can own their patents, and use them to prevent a > third company from doing something? > > This story is sometimes told: company A buys company B, so it > can own B's patents. B would have licensed the patents to > company C, but A deliberately forestalls that to cause problems > for C. Any examples in the computer industry or outside it? > ###### From: John Ahlstrom Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Know of any "strategic (ab)use of patents?" Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:03:58 -0700 Organization: Ye 'Ol Disorganized NNTPCache groupie Lines: 34 Message-ID: <39ABECFD.71643AC5@cisco.com> References: <8oeefh$1av3$1@nntp1.ba.best.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: sj-nntpcache-5!unknown@dhcp-171-68-135-37.cisco.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:62686 Peter van der Linden wrote: > > > Definitely not trying to start a flame-fest here, or invite > > another big debate on "why patents ar ebad for software". > > > > Looking for some hard information: > > - is there any evidence of a company buying another company > > just so it can own their patents, and use them to prevent a > > third company from doing something? > > > > This story is sometimes told: company A buys company B, so it > > can own B's patents. B would have licensed the patents to > > company C, but A deliberately forestalls that to cause problems > > for C. Any examples in the computer industry or outside it? I got this reply from a lawyer friend: > van der Linden's thesis, and the Visicorp example, are oversimplifications > and the business realities are, of course, much more complex. > > More common, in my experience, is the patent pooling arrangement: Company A > and Company B agree to combine and jointly enforce their patent portfolios > against C. Some, but not all, patent pooling arrangements violate U.S. > antitrust laws, and those that don't are legally and logistically cleaner > than an acquisition, and therefore preferred. van der Linden could search > Google for "patent pooling" and retrieve a host of examples. > > -- Any sufficiently well-rigged demo is indistinguishable from advanced technology.> Peter van der Linden wrote: ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Know of any "strategic (ab)use of patents?" Date: 30 Aug 2000 01:08:04 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 32 Message-ID: <6u66ojk6nf.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8oeefh$1av3$1@nntp1.ba.best.com> <8of1vk$1gsp$1@thoth.cts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 967590484 459 10.0.3.2 (29 Aug 2000 23:08:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Aug 2000 23:08:04 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:62726 "David C. Barber" writes: > "Peter van der Linden" wrote in message > news:8oeefh$1av3$1@nntp1.ba.best.com... > > Looking for some hard information: > > - is there any evidence of a company buying another company > > just so it can own their patents, and use them to prevent a > > third company from doing something? > How about Commodore buying the company that developed the Amiga chipset > (eventually renamed to Amiga) to keep those chips away from Atari? Now that is twisted history. Commodore bought the Amiga designers because they found themselves without an 16bit product and without an design team. This was the case after their middle managment fired the big boss Jack Tramiel in a "palace revolution" style. After that he had simply bought the also 16bit-product-less Atari and had grabbed all the Commodore designers, including Shiray Shivji, the designer of the Commodore 64 (which is why the early Atari STs lookes so like it). So Atari already had its chips, as Shivji designed the original ST from scratch in 8 months. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: Stephen Bodnar Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Know of any "strategic (ab)use of patents?" Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:00:57 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 20 Message-ID: <290820002100577180%sbodnar@alaska.net> References: <8oeefh$1av3$1@nntp1.ba.best.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: YA-NewsWatcher/3.1.8 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news.inweb.net.uk!news-1.opaltelecom.net!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!corp.supernews.com!sbodnar Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:62736 It will be interesting to see who is left standing after the current Micron - Intel slugfest over RAMBUS. Stephen In article <8oeefh$1av3$1@nntp1.ba.best.com>, pvdl@best.com (Peter van der Linden) wrote: > Definitely not trying to start a flame-fest here, or invite > another big debate on "why patents ar ebad for software". > > Looking for some hard information: > - is there any evidence of a company buying another company > just so it can own their patents, and use them to prevent a > third company from doing something? > > This story is sometimes told: company A buys company B, so it > can own B's patents. B would have licensed the patents to > company C, but A deliberately forestalls that to cause problems > for C. Any examples in the computer industry or outside it? ###### From: Charles Richmond Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Know of any "strategic (ab)use of patents?" Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:05:03 -0700 Organization: Cannine Computer Center Lines: 33 Message-ID: <39AD850E.673D5EB0@ev1.net> References: <8oeefh$1av3$1@nntp1.ba.best.com> <8of1vk$1gsp$1@thoth.cts.com> <6u66ojk6nf.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ohmdh$nqi$1@thoth.cts.com> Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:62788 "David C. Barber" wrote: > > Are you saying that it was twisted history, or that I twisted the history > incorrectly? > > I remember reading about the soon (say 9 months) to be released PC killer > Atari ST in Electronic Engineering Times. It was going to have am 8MHz > 68000 chip (considered much superior to the 8086/80186/80286 architecture of > the time, the Amiga chips for leading edge video and sound, and still be > cheaper than a PC to boot. Sounded quite impressive at the time. > > Commodore's main apparent reason at the time to even get into a 16-bit > computer seemed to be just to keep Tramiel from getting the market. As it > turned out, they ate each other up, where one alone might have survived as > in IBM-PC/Apple low price alternative. > That *might* have worked, but I know from talking with Atari dealers that Tramiel screwed the people who sold Atari's retail. Missed delivery schedules, broken promises, price changes, etc. I read somewhere that Jack Tramiel was the sole survivor in his family of a Nazi death camp. (Like most of these survirors, he still has his serial number tatooed on his arm.) IMHO this may have left him bitter and made him a difficult person to do business with. I loved my Atari ST...it is a great machine to hack around on. The Atari binary newsgroup and source newsgroup on Usenet was full of contributed programs ten years ago. As with most systems, there are still die-hard Atari users out there who are actively using their systems... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+