From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: DEC mainframe reliability Date: 21 Jul 2000 15:35:40 GMT Organization: Neosoft (using Airnews.net!) Lines: 41 Message-ID: <1A303091156782BB.A36CF159D413CFDF.0305CB4ABAEFD335@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: References: <85256923.004811DD.00@Pershing.com> <39785E7A.379C44D@fdrinnovation.com> Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library2.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Fri Jul 21 10:35:40 2000 NNTP-Posting-Host: !d5S01k-X/&tu"; (Encoded at Airnews!) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news-out.nntp.airnews.net.MISMATCH!cabal10.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal14.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal2.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!jmaynard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60183 Forwarded from bit.listserv.ibm-main...seems apropos to the current discussion... On 21 Jul 2000 07:28:07 -0700, Bruce Black wrote: >Jeffrey Broido wrote: >> >> John, >> Also from 100 years ago, at Rutgers we had a 360/67 with three quarters of >> a megabyte of main memory in three 2365 memory boxes, each quarter meg >> physically larger than a complete 9672-ZZ7 with 16Gb. We used it almost 24x7 >> from roughly 1969 through 1974, much of that time running flat out, and we never >> suffered a single machine check due to unrecoverable memory failure. Contrast >> this with our Digital Equipment KI-10 which displayed a statistic in its monitor >> of memory parity errors per hour; typically that number was in the single >> digits, and rarely zero. > >Not quite so long ago, I worked for a service bureau whose main workload was on >DEC-20 systems, but they had a 370/158 system to meet some customer >requirements. Naturally, the 370 system was stable, rarely an outage. By >contrast, the DEC20 systems had frequent problems and outages. > >After many complains to DEC, we received a letter from the national manager of >DEC service stating that DEC believe that 90% uptime was good enough for anyone >and they didn't intend to try and improve it. > >So who is still in business?? > >-- >Bruce A. Black >Senior Software Developer for >FDR, CPK, ABR, SOS, UPSTREAM, FATS/FATAR >Innovation Data Processing >Little Falls, NJ 07424 >973-890-7300 >personal: bblack@fdrinnovation.com >sales info: sales@fdrinnovation.com >tech support: support@fdrinnovation.com > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to listserv@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC mainframe reliability Date: Tue, 25 Jul 00 09:03:09 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 90 Message-ID: <8ljvi4$o2c$4@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <85256923.004811DD.00@Pershing.com> <39785E7A.379C44D@fdrinnovation.com> <1A303091156782BB.A36CF159D413CFDF.0305CB4ABAEFD335@lp.airnews.net> <6jsqns8mhmobf6ei8q176l1l8qtm7ohab8@4ax.com> X-Trace: 40kNMFugta6QMb41FqplfS0aGTB7O39ET6+D7oTIh78= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jul 2000 12:01:08 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!korova.insync.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-120 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60493 In article <6jsqns8mhmobf6ei8q176l1l8qtm7ohab8@4ax.com>, David Razler wrote: >On 21 Jul 2000 15:35:40 GMT, jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay >Maynard) wrote: > >>Forwarded from bit.listserv.ibm-main...seems apropos to the current >>discussion... >> >>On 21 Jul 2000 07:28:07 -0700, Bruce Black wrote: >>>Jeffrey Broido wrote: >>>> >>>> John, >>>> Also from 100 years ago, at Rutgers we had a >>>>360/67 with three quarters of >>>> a megabyte of main memory in three 2365 >>>>memory boxes, each quarter meg >>>> physically larger than a complete 9672-ZZ7 >>>>with 16Gb. We used it almost 24x7 >>>> from roughly 1969 through 1974, much of that time >>>>running flat out, and we never >>>> suffered a single machine check due to unrecoverable >>>>memory failure. Contrast >>>> this with our Digital Equipment KI-10 which displayed >>>>a statistic in its monitor >>>> of memory parity errors per hour; typically >>>>that number was in the single >>>> digits, and rarely zero. >>> >>>Not quite so long ago, I worked for a service >>>bureau whose main workload was on >>>DEC-20 systems, but they had a 370/158 system to meet some customer >>>requirements. Naturally, the 370 system was stable, >>>rarely an outage. By >>>contrast, the DEC20 systems had frequent problems and outages. >>> >>>After many complains to DEC, we received a letter from >>>the national manager of >>>DEC service stating that DEC believe that 90% uptime >>>was good enough for anyone >>>and they didn't intend to try and improve it. >>> >>>So who is still in business?? >>> >>>-- >>>Bruce A. Black >>>Senior Software Developer for > >Hmm, never had this happen with the big LIRICS KA-10, where the only >source of crashes tended to be hourly deliberate software attacks by >every high school student using it from one of 100+ terminals. Wow! I never thought of high school students as a stress test. I guess that's because most of the people we dealt with were universities. I wonder how those high schoolers and our college kids compare? > >We did have one early failure when an oil-filled power supply cap >became a used-to-be-oil-filled cap, discovered the problem after >explaining to the deputy SYSAdmin that no one had let a dog inside >during the last 12 hours, let alone allowed it to lift its leg against >a cabinet. Is this an example of those PHBs that I heard about not too long ago? You would think that the guy would use his nose. > >There were also failures due to a failed underfloor sump pump flooding >the power lines and insufficient air conditioning leading to voluntary >shutdowns, and at least once, curiosity by a user - as I tried to say >as quickly as I could, "Larry, don't unscrew that module cover it's >power inter locked". Chuckle. I liked that story. What kind of pills did you take to keep up with those kids? > >I'm thinking of letting my Straight-8 run for the Senate in 4 years. > >About the *only* DEC hardware I can think of with uptime as bad as 90% >were the DF-32 and RS-08/09 disk drives, and that due to the time it >took to polish and reformat the platters. Nope. You forgot about our magtape drives. We didn't seem to be able to design our way out of a virtual box with those. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: David Razler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC mainframe reliability Reply-To: david.razler@worldnet.com Message-ID: <6jsqns8mhmobf6ei8q176l1l8qtm7ohab8@4ax.com> References: <85256923.004811DD.00@Pershing.com> <39785E7A.379C44D@fdrinnovation.com> <1A303091156782BB.A36CF159D413CFDF.0305CB4ABAEFD335@lp.airnews.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 58 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:06:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.65.35 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 964523190 12.79.65.35 (Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:06:30 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:06:30 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!204.127.161.3!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmasters3!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60544 On 21 Jul 2000 15:35:40 GMT, jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: >Forwarded from bit.listserv.ibm-main...seems apropos to the current >discussion... > >On 21 Jul 2000 07:28:07 -0700, Bruce Black wrote: >>Jeffrey Broido wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> Also from 100 years ago, at Rutgers we had a 360/67 with three quarters of >>> a megabyte of main memory in three 2365 memory boxes, each quarter meg >>> physically larger than a complete 9672-ZZ7 with 16Gb. We used it almost 24x7 >>> from roughly 1969 through 1974, much of that time running flat out, and we never >>> suffered a single machine check due to unrecoverable memory failure. Contrast >>> this with our Digital Equipment KI-10 which displayed a statistic in its monitor >>> of memory parity errors per hour; typically that number was in the single >>> digits, and rarely zero. >> >>Not quite so long ago, I worked for a service bureau whose main workload was on >>DEC-20 systems, but they had a 370/158 system to meet some customer >>requirements. Naturally, the 370 system was stable, rarely an outage. By >>contrast, the DEC20 systems had frequent problems and outages. >> >>After many complains to DEC, we received a letter from the national manager of >>DEC service stating that DEC believe that 90% uptime was good enough for anyone >>and they didn't intend to try and improve it. >> >>So who is still in business?? >> >>-- >>Bruce A. Black >>Senior Software Developer for Hmm, never had this happen with the big LIRICS KA-10, where the only source of crashes tended to be hourly deliberate software attacks by every high school student using it from one of 100+ terminals. We did have one early failure when an oil-filled power supply cap became a used-to-be-oil-filled cap, discovered the problem after explaining to the deputy SYSAdmin that no one had let a dog inside during the last 12 hours, let alone allowed it to lift its leg against a cabinet. There were also failures due to a failed underfloor sump pump flooding the power lines and insufficient air conditioning leading to voluntary shutdowns, and at least once, curiosity by a user - as I tried to say as quickly as I could, "Larry, don't unscrew that module cover it's power inter locked". I'm thinking of letting my Straight-8 run for the Senate in 4 years. About the *only* DEC hardware I can think of with uptime as bad as 90% were the DF-32 and RS-08/09 disk drives, and that due to the time it took to polish and reformat the platters. dmr ###### From: David Razler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DEC mainframe reliability Reply-To: david.razler@worldnet.com Message-ID: References: <85256923.004811DD.00@Pershing.com> <39785E7A.379C44D@fdrinnovation.com> <1A303091156782BB.A36CF159D413CFDF.0305CB4ABAEFD335@lp.airnews.net> <6jsqns8mhmobf6ei8q176l1l8qtm7ohab8@4ax.com> <8ljvi4$o2c$4@bob.news.rcn.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 74 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:08:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.66.229 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 964624117 12.79.66.229 (Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:08:37 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:08:37 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.20!wnmasters3!bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60633 On Tue, 25 Jul 00 09:03:09 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >In article <6jsqns8mhmobf6ei8q176l1l8qtm7ohab8@4ax.com>, > David Razler wrote: >>Hmm, never had this happen with the big LIRICS KA-10, where the only >>source of crashes tended to be hourly deliberate software attacks by >>every high school student using it from one of 100+ terminals. > >Wow! I never thought of high school students as a stress test. >I guess that's because most of the people we dealt with were >universities. I wonder how those high schoolers and our college >kids compare? We were NASTY! (Look for the initials BAM on any patches recommended for TOPS-10) >> >>We did have one early failure when an oil-filled power supply cap >>became a used-to-be-oil-filled cap, discovered the problem after >>explaining to the deputy SYSAdmin that no one had let a dog inside >>during the last 12 hours, let alone allowed it to lift its leg against >>a cabinet. > >Is this an example of those PHBs that I heard about not too long >ago? You would think that the guy would use his nose. He was not the type to stick his nose near it! > > >> >>There were also failures due to a failed underfloor sump pump flooding >>the power lines and insufficient air conditioning leading to voluntary >>shutdowns, and at least once, curiosity by a user - as I tried to say >>as quickly as I could, "Larry, don't unscrew that module cover it's >>power inter locked". > >Chuckle. I liked that story. What kind of pills did you take >to keep up with those kids? I wuz 'those kids' The SYSOP just smoked a lot of tobacco and regularly set fire to TTYs and trashcans, hired successful system breakers and swore a lot. >> >>I'm thinking of letting my Straight-8 run for the Senate in 4 years. >> >>About the *only* DEC hardware I can think of with uptime as bad as 90% >>were the DF-32 and RS-08/09 disk drives, and that due to the time it >>took to polish and reformat the platters. > >Nope. You forgot about our magtape drives. We didn't seem to >be able to design our way out of a virtual box with those. The only DEC Magtape I personally owned was a TU-30 (HP tape drive) that worked fine. Never had a *controller* for it to connect it to my 18-bitters, but the drive itself worked fine.... > >/BAH > >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. dmr