From: rmonagha@smu.edu (Robert Monaghan) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers Date: 14 Jul 2000 23:29:35 -0500 Organization: Southern Methodist University Lines: 11 Message-ID: <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: post.cis.smu.edu X-Trace: hermes.seas.smu.edu 963635377 2375 129.119.64.23 (15 Jul 2000 04:29:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@seas.smu.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Jul 2000 04:29:37 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!cabal11.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!news.smu.edu!smu.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59809 Hey, careful there! Some of us are fans of Tiny Basic. A two level threaded interpreter with editor, integer math, and easily extensible machine language calls, all in 2 kilobytes of memory, either free (Dr. Dobb's) or low cost ($10+ from Tom Pittman etc.). It wasn't designed as a text editor, after all, but a program source listing and editing tool. I'd like to see how much of an editor the memory hogs at Microsoft could cram into 187 bytes! ;-) grins bobm -- * Robert Monaghan POB752182 Dallas Tx 75275-2182 rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu * * Third Party 35mm Lenses: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/third/index.html * * Medium Format Cameras: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/index.html megasite* ###### From: "Form@C" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:57:58 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> Reply-To: mick@mixtel.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-109.crixivan.dialup.pol.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news7.svr.pol.co.uk 963662260 13231 62.136.87.109 (15 Jul 2000 11:57:40 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Jul 2000 11:57:40 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59835 On 14 Jul 2000 23:29:35 -0500, rmonagha@smu.edu (Robert Monaghan) wrote: >Hey, careful there! Some of us are fans of Tiny Basic. A two level >threaded interpreter with editor, integer math, and easily extensible >machine language calls, all in 2 kilobytes of memory, either free (Dr. >Dobb's) or low cost ($10+ from Tom Pittman etc.). It wasn't designed as a >text editor, after all, but a program source listing and editing tool. I'd >like to see how much of an editor the memory hogs at Microsoft could cram >into 187 bytes! ;-) grins bobm YEAH! I have spent many a happy hour with Tiny Basic. Wasn't one of the first written by a bloke called Chung Hi Lee or something like that? The version on the Nascon was based on that. There was also a "Super Tiny Basic" - extended tiny basic with more bells and whistles. Three eror messages: WHAT - the interpreter doesn't understand HOW - the interpreter understands the command but something else is wrong SORRY - out of memory -- mick - http://www.mixtel.co.uk for Nascom Info. ShareWare Virus - Please send a copy of this message to all your friends, delete your Windows directory and, if you enjoyed the experience, send me 1UKP. Thanks. ###### From: Ron Wellsted Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 20:46:42 GMT Message-ID: <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers X-Newsreader: Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; StarOffice/5.1; Linux) X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-1-183.cvx2.telinco.net X-Original-Trace: 15 Jul 2000 21:16:50 +0100, ppp-1-183.cvx2.telinco.net Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: news2.cluster1.telinco.net X-Trace: 15 Jul 2000 21:16:50 GMT, news2.cluster1.telinco.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newspeer.gemsoft.net!news.intensive.net!news.telinco.net!tux!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59844 Refering to my copy of the "PCC's reference book of personal and home=20 computing" published July 1977, page 64 onwards has the complete=20 source for the Tiny Basic Interpreter Version 3.0 by Li-Chen Wang=20 dated 26 April 1977. I once typed all 2K into my Z80 system and got it working (checking it=20 before running was fun, thankfully saved to a Kansas City (CUTS) tape=20 system (at 2400 bps!) before patching for my IO and running. IIRC it=20 worked first time! --=20 Ron Wellsted ron@wellsted.org.uk http://www.wellsted.org.uk ###### From: "Form@C" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:56:26 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> Reply-To: mick@mixtel.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-41.clonazepam.dialup.pol.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 963755770 23703 62.136.85.169 (16 Jul 2000 13:56:10 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Jul 2000 13:56:10 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59930 On Sat, 15 Jul 2000 20:46:42 GMT, Ron Wellsted wrote: >Refering to my copy of the "PCC's reference book of personal and home >computing" published July 1977, page 64 onwards has the complete >source for the Tiny Basic Interpreter Version 3.0 by Li-Chen Wang >dated 26 April 1977. > Yep,. That sounds about right (I have a terrible memory for names...) >I once typed all 2K into my Z80 system and got it working (checking it >before running was fun, thankfully saved to a Kansas City (CUTS) tape >system (at 2400 bps!) before patching for my IO and running. IIRC it >worked first time! Yep. I typed in Tiny too. It's a hell of a lot of work checking all those hex couplets. Wots this 2400 bps? Something new? I thought the standard was 110? (joke... - sorry.) -- mick - http://www.mixtel.co.uk for Nascom Info. ShareWare Virus - Please send a copy of this message to all your friends, delete your Windows directory and, if you enjoyed the experience, send me 1UKP. Thanks. ###### From: "Form@C" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 17:59:44 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> Reply-To: mick@mixtel.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-22.fluvoxamine.dialup.pol.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 963766777 706 62.136.207.22 (16 Jul 2000 16:59:37 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Jul 2000 16:59:37 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59911 On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 15:51:18 GMT, TheCentralScrutinizer.199@pobox.com () wrote: > >Sounds about as much fun as typing in 'pilot' where the magizine typeset >makes '8's look just like 'B's. mmm... I didn't actually type in Pilot, but I did play with it. I always liked it, it was great for writing little interactive proggies - but that's all. I know what you mean about 8s and Bs - especially on the Nascom display, courtesy of a 12" b&w telly. 0s gave problems too iirc. -- mick - http://www.mixtel.co.uk for Nascom Info. ShareWare Virus - Please send a copy of this message to all your friends, delete your Windows directory and, if you enjoyed the experience, send me 1UKP. Thanks. ###### Message-ID: <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> From: Paul Grayson Organization: Springfield Heights Institute of Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.4.0-test4 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 32 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:43:40 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.168.68.216 X-Complaints-To: abuse@virgin.net X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 963785863 194.168.68.216 (Sun, 16 Jul 2000 23:17:43 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 23:17:43 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!shippo.virgin.net!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59848 "Form@C" wrote: > > On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 15:51:18 GMT, TheCentralScrutinizer.199@pobox.com () wrote: > > > > > >Sounds about as much fun as typing in 'pilot' where the magizine typeset > >makes '8's look just like 'B's. > > mmm... I didn't actually type in Pilot, but I did play with it. I always liked > it, it was great for writing little interactive proggies - but that's all. > > I know what you mean about 8s and Bs - especially on the Nascom display, > courtesy of a 12" b&w telly. 0s gave problems too iirc. > I had the same with some of the magazines that would publish code as hexdumps, particularly if theyd been printed on a Sinclair therman printer (or toilet roll burner, as most called it). With the sinclair character set B, 6 and 8 looked very simillar, and with this printer, which was prone to smudging, they appeared even closer. I'd spend hours typing in the hex strings, only to find that I'd misread a character. One magazine did include some form of checksum, but unfortunatly the accompaying BASIC program didn't work, as it suffered from a subtle off-by-one error. -- Paul Grayson - paul.grayson@virgin.net Squawk! Pieces of Nine! Squawk! Pieces of Nine! SYSTEM HALTED - PARROTTY ERROR. ###### From: Ron Wellsted Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:42:59 GMT Message-ID: <20000716.19425900@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers X-Newsreader: Mozilla/3.0 (compatible; StarOffice/5.1; Linux) X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-1-18.cvx1.telinco.net X-Original-Trace: 17 Jul 2000 06:31:01 +0100, ppp-1-18.cvx1.telinco.net Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: news2.cluster1.telinco.net X-Trace: 17 Jul 2000 06:31:03 GMT, news2.cluster1.telinco.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!peer.news.nildram.co.uk!peernews.cix.co.uk!news.intensive.net!news.telinco.net!tux!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59900 On 16/07/00, 16:59:44, "Form@C" wrote=20 regarding Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler?: > I know what you mean about 8s and Bs - especially on the Nascom=20 display, > courtesy of a 12" b&w telly. 0s gave problems too iirc. The fix for this was to identify a suitable point to feed a direct=20 video input, worked wonders... Even better was to use a CCTV monitor=20 with a video input (those little astec modulators were poor...) :-) --=20 Ron Wellsted ron@wellsted.org.uk http://www.wellsted.org.uk ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> From: Dowe Keller X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Date: 16 Jul 2000 22:30:14 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: 20923419629.sierratel.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 20923419629.sierratel.com X-Trace: 16 Jul 2000 22:33:43 -0700, 20923419629.sierratel.com Organization: news.sierratel.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!209.155.26.10!news.sierratel.com!20923419629.sierratel.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59910 Paul Grayson writes: > I'd spend hours typing in the hex strings, only to find that I'd misread > a character. One magazine did include some form of checksum, but > unfortunatly the accompaying BASIC program didn't work, as it suffered > from a subtle off-by-one error. I have many fond memories of typing in programs from magazines. This is strange, because at least 40% didn't work, and almost all needed debugging. The ones in machine-language were the most "interesting" to debug :-/ I had a big stack of _Compute_ (I think that's the name), and some Commodore mags with a nautical name. Why did they stop printing those cool computer mags? The ones nowadays don't have any program listings. -- dowe@sierratel.com Reason Number F3 that you need a new computer: You can't find the right relay's to repair the CPU. ###### From: Charles Richmond Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 01:21:33 -0700 Organization: Cannine Computer Center Lines: 32 Message-ID: <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net> References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59919 Dowe Keller wrote: > > Paul Grayson writes: > > > I'd spend hours typing in the hex strings, only to find that I'd misread > > a character. One magazine did include some form of checksum, but > > unfortunatly the accompaying BASIC program didn't work, as it suffered > > from a subtle off-by-one error. > > I have many fond memories of typing in programs from magazines. > This is strange, because at least 40% didn't work, and almost all > needed debugging. The ones in machine-language were the most > "interesting" to debug :-/ > > I had a big stack of _Compute_ (I think that's the name), > and some Commodore mags with a nautical name. > > Why did they stop printing those cool computer mags? > > The ones nowadays don't have any program listings. > The reason is that people do *not* want to mess around with their systems anymore...they want programs call "apps" that they can load and use. Their idea of computer literacy is being able to use MS Word. Programming is beyond the scope of their hopelessly small brains... their little worlds revolve around M$oft and what "new innovations" that M$soft has recently stolen and put out as their own ideas... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: "Form@C" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:49:53 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 26 Message-ID: <1lh6ns8e4j0h8o6iml39lpvshgpq9jn4dc@4ax.com> References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> <20000716.19425900@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> Reply-To: mick@mixtel.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-133.fluvoxamine.dialup.pol.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk 963856170 11200 62.136.207.133 (17 Jul 2000 17:49:30 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jul 2000 17:49:30 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60000 On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:42:59 GMT, Ron Wellsted wrote: >On 16/07/00, 16:59:44, "Form@C" wrote >regarding Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler?: > >> I know what you mean about 8s and Bs - especially on the Nascom >display, >> courtesy of a 12" b&w telly. 0s gave problems too iirc. > >The fix for this was to identify a suitable point to feed a direct >video input, worked wonders... Even better was to use a CCTV monitor >with a video input (those little astec modulators were poor...) :-) aha! but not so poor as the original Nascom-1 modulator! You had to build it yourself on the PCB. A lot of people had a hairy time with capacitors & transistors drifting. The beautiful, georgeous, easy to use astec boxes were a real godsend! Ok, they were pretty bad (the early ones anyway) but they were still better.... ###### From: Dave Daniels Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 20:35:48 +0100 Organization: None Lines: 22 Message-ID: <49dfaaf201a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: userab14.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 963863770 6238 62.188.130.113 (17 Jul 2000 19:56:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jul 2000 19:56:10 GMT User-Agent: Pluto/1.14i (RISC-OS/4.03) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!argonet.co.uk!argbq79 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59977 In article <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: > rogramming is beyond the scope of their hopelessly small brains... > their little worlds revolve around M$oft and what "new innovations" > that M$soft has recently stolen and put out as their own ideas... Whereas on here, I strongly suspect that heaven is a bare operating system where the nearest thing to an application is a full-screen editor. Dave Daniels -- ANTISPAM: Please note that the email address above is false. My correct address is: dave_danielsargonetcouk Please replace the and s with @ and . respectively when replying - Thanks! ###### From: "Adam Atkinson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: 17 Jul 2000 21:14:57 +0000 Organization: Collegio Pierpaoli, Montaguzzo Lines: 13 Message-ID: <444.233T2875T12745660ghira@mistral.co.uk> References: <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net> <49dfaaf201a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> NNTP-Posting-Host: d224-75.dial.mistral.co.uk X-Trace: nntp.mistral.co.uk 963865160 28080 195.184.224.75 (17 Jul 2000 20:19:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@mistral-uk.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jul 2000 20:19:20 GMT X-No-Ahbou: yes X-Newsreader: THOR 2.6a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!insnet.net!nntp.mistral.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59980 On 17-Jul-00 19:35:48, Dave Daniels said: >Whereas on here, I strongly suspect that heaven is a bare >operating system where the nearest thing to an application is a >full-screen editor. And your point would be? -- Adam Atkinson (ghira@mistral.co.uk) I am never forget the day I first meet great Lobachevsky. In one word he told me secret of success in mathematics: Plagiarise. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net> <49dfaaf201a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> From: Dowe Keller Date: 17 Jul 2000 21:14:04 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 22 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: 20923419612.sierratel.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 20923419612.sierratel.com X-Trace: 17 Jul 2000 21:16:42 -0700, 20923419612.sierratel.com Organization: news.sierratel.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newsmaster-01.atnet.at!atnet.at!newsrouter.chello.at!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.germany.net!news.vas-net.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!209.155.26.10!news.sierratel.com!20923419612.sierratel.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59988 Dave Daniels writes: > In article <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net>, > Charles Richmond wrote: > > rogramming is beyond the scope of their hopelessly small brains... > > their little worlds revolve around M$oft and what "new innovations" > > that M$soft has recently stolen and put out as their own ideas... > > Whereas on here, I strongly suspect that heaven is a bare > operating system where the nearest thing to an application is a > full-screen editor. Full-screen editors are for wimps. Real men use ed. ^C^X q quit help . -- dowe@sierratel.com http://www.sierratel.com/dowe Everybody out of the GENETIC POOL! ###### Message-ID: <39747348.C0318EBC@netinsight.se> From: Johnny Billquist Organization: Netinsight AB X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net> <49dfaaf201a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 20 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:10:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.16.221.33 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.com X-Trace: newsc.telia.net 963933000 194.16.221.33 (Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:10:00 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:10:00 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uninett.no!news.ost.eltele.no!newsfeed1.enitel.no!masternews.telia.net!newsc.telia.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59952 Dowe Keller wrote: > > Full-screen editors are for wimps. Real men use ed. > ^C^X > q > quit > help > . Sigh. We've been through this before. ed is just as wimpy. There is nothing that beats TECO. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist | johnny.billquist@netinsight.net Net Insight AB | phone: +46 8 685 04 88 Västberga Allé 9 | fax: +46 8 685 04 20 Box 42093 | SE-126 30 STOCKHOLM, Sweden | http://www.netinsight.net ###### From: "donald tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:30:38 -0400 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 29 Message-ID: <8l20uj$5gg$1@news.igs.net> References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net> <49dfaaf201a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <39747348.C0318EBC@netinsight.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttya10.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 963938067 5648 216.58.99.48 (18 Jul 2000 16:34:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Jul 2000 16:34:27 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!east1.newsfeed.sprint-canada.net!news.uunet.ca!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59939 Real men type: COBOL CON: DISTRIBUTION.EXE And start typing. Johnny Billquist wrote in message <39747348.C0318EBC@netinsight.se>... >Dowe Keller wrote: >> >> Full-screen editors are for wimps. Real men use ed. >> ^C^X >> q >> quit >> help >> . > >Sigh. We've been through this before. ed is just as wimpy. >There is nothing that beats TECO. > > Johnny > >-- >Johnny Billquist | johnny.billquist@netinsight.net >Net Insight AB | phone: +46 8 685 04 88 >Västberga Allé 9 | fax: +46 8 685 04 20 >Box 42093 | >SE-126 30 STOCKHOLM, Sweden | http://www.netinsight.net ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: 18 Jul 2000 20:47:19 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 33 Message-ID: <6usnt7numg.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net> <49dfaaf201a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <39747348.C0318EBC@netinsight.se> <8l20uj$5gg$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 963946039 439 10.0.3.2 (18 Jul 2000 18:47:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Jul 2000 18:47:19 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60009 "donald tees" writes: > Johnny Billquist wrote in message <39747348.C0318EBC@netinsight.se>... > >Dowe Keller wrote: > >> > >> Full-screen editors are for wimps. Real men use ed. > >> ^C^X > >> q > >> quit > >> help > >> . > > > >Sigh. We've been through this before. ed is just as wimpy. > >There is nothing that beats TECO. > > Real men type: > > COBOL CON: DISTRIBUTION.EXE > And start typing. Use software to program? Wimp! Go and look at them rows of lamps and switches on the front of your computer. They are for programming it. So that should terminate this subthread. :-) -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: Wed, 19 Jul 00 09:05:28 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 39 Message-ID: <8l45cm$kdc$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net> <49dfaaf201a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <3974BE94.6CEFA836@trailing-edge.com> X-Trace: Yn61OUTg15P/nbbC6FEApMIEKBSELKYxA1XMW+/OaA8= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Jul 2000 12:02:30 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-32 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60034 In article , TheCentralScrutinizer.199@pobox.com () wrote: >On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:31:16 -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote: >>TheCentralScrutinizer.199@pobox.com wrote: >>> >>> On 17 Jul 2000 21:14:04 -0700, Dowe Keller wrote: >>> >Dave Daniels writes: >>> > >>> >> In article <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net>, >>> >> Charles Richmond wrote: >>> >> > rogramming is beyond the scope of their hopelessly small brains... >>> >> > their little worlds revolve around M$oft and what "new innovations" >>> >> > that M$soft has recently stolen and put out as their own ideas... >>> >> >>> >> Whereas on here, I strongly suspect that heaven is a bare >>> >> operating system where the nearest thing to an application is a >>> >> full-screen editor. >>> > >>> >Full-screen editors are for wimps. Real men use ed. >>> >>> Nah. They use toggle switches if they're *real* men. >> >>What, you had ones *AND* zeroes when you started? When I began, >>we only had l's and O's! And half the time the "l" position >>didn't work! > >Spoiled brat! All we had were l's and o's. Our computers weren't even >automatic; we had to use a manual typewriter and interpret the code >ourselves. Count your blessings. I didn't have lower case. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Message-ID: <3974BE94.6CEFA836@trailing-edge.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:31:16 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.2 AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net> <49dfaaf201a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: reader1.news.uu.net 963966676 1283 63.73.218.130 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gblx.net!triton.skycache.com!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!spool0.news.uu.net!reader1.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60046 TheCentralScrutinizer.199@pobox.com wrote: > > On 17 Jul 2000 21:14:04 -0700, Dowe Keller wrote: > >Dave Daniels writes: > > > >> In article <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net>, > >> Charles Richmond wrote: > >> > rogramming is beyond the scope of their hopelessly small brains... > >> > their little worlds revolve around M$oft and what "new innovations" > >> > that M$soft has recently stolen and put out as their own ideas... > >> > >> Whereas on here, I strongly suspect that heaven is a bare > >> operating system where the nearest thing to an application is a > >> full-screen editor. > > > >Full-screen editors are for wimps. Real men use ed. > > Nah. They use toggle switches if they're *real* men. What, you had ones *AND* zeroes when you started? When I began, we only had l's and O's! And half the time the "l" position didn't work! Tim. ###### Message-ID: <3975565D.830EE44E@netinsight.se> From: Johnny Billquist Organization: Netinsight AB X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net> <49dfaaf201a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <39747348.C0318EBC@netinsight.se> <8l20uj$5gg$1@news.igs.net> <6usnt7numg.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 33 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:19:04 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.16.221.33 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.com X-Trace: newsc.telia.net 963991144 194.16.221.33 (Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:19:04 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:19:04 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeedZ.netscum.dQ!netscum.int!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news-sto.telia.net!masternews.telia.net!newsc.telia.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60025 Neil Franklin wrote: > Use software to program? > > Wimp! Well, if we are talking editors... And apart from TECO being the hairiest of them all, it's also the best. Writing executable code directly from the keyboard is probably easier than using TECO. > Go and look at them rows of lamps and switches on the front of your > computer. They are for programming it. So *that's* what all those silly lamps are for. And I thought they just were there to illuminate me. Or perhaps for playing the most primitive types of games, and possibly to show that the computer was fiddling around instead of doing serious work. > So that should terminate this subthread. :-) I actually love programming on the front panel, but unfortunately, my PDP-11/84 don't have one. Just this silly electronic console. Wish I had more room... :-) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist | johnny.billquist@netinsight.net Net Insight AB | phone: +46 8 685 04 88 Västberga Allé 9 | fax: +46 8 685 04 20 Box 42093 | SE-126 30 STOCKHOLM, Sweden | http://www.netinsight.net ###### From: als@thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: 19 Jul 2000 13:00:15 GMT Organization: Home of the BOFH Lines: 44 Message-ID: References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net> <49dfaaf201a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <3974BE94.6CEFA836@trailing-edge.com> Reply-To: als@usenet.thangorodrim.de NNTP-Posting-Host: bofh.csn.tu-chemnitz.de X-Trace: narses.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de 964011615 5825 134.109.108.7 (19 Jul 2000 13:00:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.tu-chemnitz.de NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Jul 2000 13:00:15 GMT X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.2 UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!uni-erlangen.de!news.tu-chemnitz.de!als Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60065 On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 01:27:35 GMT, TheCentralScrutinizer.199@pobox.com wrote about Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler?: >On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:31:16 -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote: >>TheCentralScrutinizer.199@pobox.com wrote: >>> >>> On 17 Jul 2000 21:14:04 -0700, Dowe Keller wrote: >>> >Dave Daniels writes: >>> > >>> >> In article <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net>, >>> >> Charles Richmond wrote: >>> >> > rogramming is beyond the scope of their hopelessly small brains... >>> >> > their little worlds revolve around M$oft and what "new innovations" >>> >> > that M$soft has recently stolen and put out as their own ideas... >>> >> >>> >> Whereas on here, I strongly suspect that heaven is a bare >>> >> operating system where the nearest thing to an application is a >>> >> full-screen editor. >>> > >>> >Full-screen editors are for wimps. Real men use ed. >>> >>> Nah. They use toggle switches if they're *real* men. >> >>What, you had ones *AND* zeroes when you started? When I began, >>we only had l's and O's! And half the time the "l" position >>didn't work! > >Spoiled brat! All we had were l's and o's. Our computers weren't even >automatic; we had to use a manual typewriter and interpret the code >ourselves. You did have typewriters and still have the guts to complain about it? We would have killed for typewriters! We didn't even have real Ones and Zeros from the start - we had to bang two rocks together to get them. Kids these days ... Regards, Alex. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ EMail : als@thangorodrim.de | WWW : http://www.thangorodrim.de/ If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have | Ceterum censeo Parva Mollia privacy. (Philip Zimmerman, author of PGP) | esse delendam. ###### From: "Form@C" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:39:07 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net> <49dfaaf201a__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <3974BE94.6CEFA836@trailing-edge.com> <8l45cm$kdc$3@bob.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: mick@mixtel.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-68.arien.dialup.pol.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news7.svr.pol.co.uk 964031919 11962 62.136.124.196 (19 Jul 2000 18:38:39 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Jul 2000 18:38:39 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60011 On Wed, 19 Jul 00 09:05:28 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >Count your blessings. I didn't have lower case. > still got a working printer without l/case descenders and no graphics - even though its a dot matrix. Oh, and I have the adaptor to take teletype rolls if anyone just happens to have a few in the shed... -- mick - http://www.mixtel.co.uk for Nascom Info. ShareWare Virus - Please send a copy of this message to all your friends, delete your Windows directory and, if you enjoyed the experience, send me 1UKP. Thanks. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <3972025C.7783609B@virgin.net> <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net> Organization: None X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: kragen@dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker) Lines: 30 Message-ID: X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: support@usenetserver.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:24:30 EDT Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:24:30 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone1.usenetserver.com!cyclone1.usenetserver.com!news-west.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60147 In article <3972C20D.1372F0AD@ev1.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >Dowe Keller wrote: >> Why did they stop printing those cool computer mags? >> >> The ones nowadays don't have any program listings. > >The reason is that people do *not* want to mess around with their >systems anymore...they want programs call "apps" that they can load >and use. More hack now than then. But even we hackers nowadays use computers for more than hacking; reading news, writing email, and marking up sheets of paper come to mind. Writing our own programs for everything isn't always the way to go for these things. And hackers were the only PC users in the 1970s; now we are outnumbered by PC users who do not hack. > Their idea of computer literacy is being able to use MS Word. >Programming is beyond the scope of their hopelessly small brains... >their little worlds revolve around M$oft and what "new innovations" >that M$soft has recently stolen and put out as their own ideas... Fuck you too, you stupid sack of donkey vomit. -- Kragen Sitaker Perilous to all of us are the devices of an art deeper than we ourselves possess. -- Gandalf the Grey [J.R.R. Tolkien, "Lord of the Rings"] ###### From: Jim Davis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:09:49 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 18 Message-ID: <397B5F1D.BA5CF990@gorge.net> References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> <20000715.20464200@ron-ws.wellsted.ukf.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!telocity-west!TELOCITY!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60332 Reminds me of a horror show, by Dr Dobbs. Did anyone else type in the PIDGEN metacompiler, Dr Dobbs, 82-84? timeframe? Two months after the release, A correction was issued. Title: Pidgen puzzle Nearly all of the bytecode metacode that implemented the compiler had been incorrectly ordered by the publisher. With no syntatic and little in the way of symantic clues to decode, or even alert the programmer of the mistake. It took me a week to figure out it would never work as-listed, by manually decoding the metacode. Jim D. TheCentralScrutinizer.199@pobox.com wrote: > > On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:56:26 +0100, Form@C wrote: > Sounds about as much fun as typing in 'pilot' where the magizine typeset > makes '8's look just like 'B's. ###### From: dfox@belvdere.vip.best.com () Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: 23 Jul 2000 20:57:58 GMT Organization: The ISP formerly known as Best Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: belvdere.vip.best.com X-Trace: nntp1.ba.best.com 964385878 14234 204.156.152.2 (23 Jul 2000 20:57:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@best.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jul 2000 20:57:58 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!europa.netcrusader.net!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.ba.best.com!dfox Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60450 On 14 Jul 2000 23:29:35 -0500, Robert Monaghan wrote: >like to see how much of an editor the memory hogs at Microsoft could cram >into 187 bytes! ;-) grins bobm Well, ted.com comes close, but it wasn't written by MS either. OTOH, the editor that was part of the Basic interpreter on the Model I TRS-80s was a pretty powerful line-oriented editor, and probably didn't take up that much space -- after all, they crammed quite a bit of functionality into a 12K ROM. >-- >* Robert Monaghan POB752182 Dallas Tx 75275-2182 rmonagha@post.cis.smu.edu * >* Third Party 35mm Lenses: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/third/index.html * >* Medium Format Cameras: http://www.smu.edu/~rmonagha/mf/index.html megasite* -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David E. Fox Census Thanks for letting me dfox@belvdere.vip.best.com 2000 change magnetic patterns Be Counted: http://www.census.gov on your hard disk. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ###### From: Eric Fischer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: slamming tiny basic? ;-) Re: first assembler? Date: 27 Jul 2000 18:57:39 GMT Organization: EnterAct Corp. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <8lq0n3$asp$1@news.enteract.com> References: <8knfb2$d90@netaxs.com> <8knneu$hpn$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> <8kopbf$krc$1@post.cis.smu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell-1.enteract.com X-Trace: news.enteract.com 964724259 11161 207.229.143.40 (27 Jul 2000 18:57:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@enteract.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 2000 18:57:39 GMT X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) Originator: enf@enteract.com (Eric Fischer) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60752 wrote: > On 14 Jul 2000 23:29:35 -0500, Robert Monaghan wrote: > > >like to see how much of an editor the memory hogs at Microsoft could cram > >into 187 bytes! ;-) grins bobm > > Well, ted.com comes close, but it wasn't written by MS either. > > OTOH, the editor that was part of the Basic interpreter on the > Model I TRS-80s was a pretty powerful line-oriented editor, and > probably didn't take up that much space -- after all, they crammed > quite a bit of functionality into a 12K ROM. The TRS-80 Level II BASIC EDIT command you mention is, by the way, a clone of the ALTER command from the SOS editor from the DEC PDP-10. The other notable minimal-memory Microsoft editor is the one from the TRS-80 Model 100 laptop's ROM. One of these days I hope to get around to trying to write an Apple II version of the single-line-emacs mini-editors that just about every Unix program now embeds. You can do it compactly enough in C that I'd be surprised if it worked out to much more than 256 bytes of 6502 assembler. eric