From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? Date: 13 Jul 2000 16:27:39 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 30 Message-ID: <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> References: <6un1k3hs8t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <20000701065009.19348.00000395@ng-fh1.aol.com> <8kf7ct$p5l$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> <396CA529.3B5E2996@earthlink.net> <525849CF68B224DF.01596731FDBF4ADE.1CA5851AC7C19D38@lp.airnews.net> <2000Jul13.101552.12763@lorelei.approve.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: u3.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.axxsys.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u3.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59708 Goran Larsson wrote: : In article <525849CF68B224DF.01596731FDBF4ADE.1CA5851AC7C19D38@lp.airnews.net>, : Jay Maynard wrote: : > This was a limitation of the IBM PC: there wasn't enough room on the card : > bracket to put both a 36-pin ribbon connector and the DB-9 for the : > monochrome monitor. : They could have used the E sized DE-9 instead of the B sized DB-9 : and gained some space. Btw, I have never seen a DB-9, what else : have they been used for? :-) Apple used them on the first Mac mouse (which is different than the serial spec on a PC). You can still get real cheap (~$1) a DB-9 to DB-25 serial adaptor with all M/F combinations. I've seen DB-9s used as a power connector (why?) on an old Zenith PC-clone. They were also the first PC monitor connector, mono, CGA, EGA graphics. Heck, I knew a guy that connected a CGA monitor up to the power connector DB-9 on a Zenith. I said, "Jerry, the monitor is not supposed to make sounds like that and smoke", "oops...". The NEC Mutlisync I and IIs used DB-9s and they were considered SVGA (as well as CGA, EGA and VGA!) way before their time (I love those Multisyncs, -still have a couple). The only thing that made them obsolete, IMO, is that the standard monitor size went from 13-14 inches to 15 inches. Anyway, DB-9...I think that's all I can come up with off the top of my head. Eric ###### From: bjh21@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ben Harris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? Date: 13 Jul 2000 16:36:03 GMT Organization: University of Cambridge, England Lines: 39 Message-ID: <8kkr5j$f6k$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> References: <525849CF68B224DF.01596731FDBF4ADE.1CA5851AC7C19D38@lp.airnews.net> <2000Jul13.101552.12763@lorelei.approve.se> <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: draco.cus.cam.ac.uk Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!server1.netnews.ja.net!pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk!bjh21 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59716 In article <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net>, Eric Chomko wrote: >Goran Larsson wrote: >: In article <525849CF68B224DF.01596731FDBF4ADE.1CA5851AC7C19D38@lp.airnews.net>, >: Jay Maynard wrote: > >: > This was a limitation of the IBM PC: there wasn't enough room on the card >: > bracket to put both a 36-pin ribbon connector and the DB-9 for the >: > monochrome monitor. > >: They could have used the E sized DE-9 instead of the B sized DB-9 >: and gained some space. Btw, I have never seen a DB-9, what else >: have they been used for? :-) > >Apple used them on the first Mac mouse (which is different than the >serial spec on a PC). You can still get real cheap (~$1) a DB-9 to >DB-25 serial adaptor with all M/F combinations. I've seen DB-9s used as a >power connector (why?) on an old Zenith PC-clone. They were also the first >PC monitor connector, mono, CGA, EGA graphics. Heck, I knew a guy that >connected a CGA monitor up to the power connector DB-9 on a Zenith. I >said, "Jerry, the monitor is not supposed to make sounds like that and >smoke", "oops...". > >The NEC Mutlisync I and IIs used DB-9s and they were considered SVGA (as >well as CGA, EGA and VGA!) way before their time (I love those Multisyncs, >-still have a couple). The only thing that made them obsolete, IMO, is >that the standard monitor size went from 13-14 inches to 15 inches. > >Anyway, DB-9...I think that's all I can come up with off the top of my >head. Erm, all of those are DE-9. DB-9 would be a 9-pin connector in the same shell as a DB-25 connector. Goran Larsson was, of course, pulling your leg. -- Ben Harris Unix Support, University of Cambridge Computing Service. If I wanted to speak for the University, I'd be in ucam.comp-serv.announce. ###### Message-ID: <396DBC9A.2254DB7B@trailing-edge.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:56:58 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.0 DEC 3000 Model 300L) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? References: <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 37 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: reader0.news.uu.net 963507419 17965 63.73.218.130 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!feed.newsreader.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!spool1.news.uu.net!spool0.news.uu.net!reader0.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59706 Jay Maynard wrote: > > On 13 Jul 2000 16:27:39 GMT, Eric Chomko wrote: > >Goran Larsson wrote: > >: Btw, I have never seen a DB-9, what else have they been used for? :-) > >Apple used them on the first Mac mouse (which is different than the > >serial spec on a PC). > > (examples snipped) > > Goran's being humorously picky. The connector is, properly, termed DE-9, not > DB-9; the only true DB is the DB-25. That's not the only option; there are also "higher density" DB- series connectors, and these have been in use for at least 3 decades. In particular, I've worked with Data General equipment that had 42-pin connectors in DB-size shells. It's also possible to put lower-density contacts in, for high-current handling or coaxial cable connectors. It's pretty likely that you've seen such coaxial-connectors-in-a-Dsub connectors for workstation monitors. > The letter designates the physical size > of the shell (somewhat redundantly, sicne that also controls the number of > pins). Thus, the proper names are DS-15, DB-25, DC-37, DD-50, and DE-9. Don't forget the *very* common (thesedays) 15-pins in a E-size shell connector used for VGA monitors. The shell size is not completely redundant. Tim. Like > the fact that "minifloppy" was originalyl a trademark of Shugart Associates > for their SA-400 minifloppy drive, this naming was met with a collective > yawn and promptly ignored. ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? Date: 13 Jul 2000 17:44:20 GMT Organization: Neosoft (using Airnews.net!) Lines: 16 Message-ID: X-Orig-Message-ID: References: <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <396DBC9A.2254DB7B@trailing-edge.com> Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: 204.181.96.50 NNTP-Posting-Time: Thu Jul 13 12:44:20 2000 NNTP-Posting-Host: !db\.1k-X$+0)Dp (Encoded at Airnews!) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!korova.insync.net!solomon.io.com!nntp.giganews.com!cabal14.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!jmaynard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59758 On Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:56:58 -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote: >It's also possible to put lower-density contacts in, for high-current >handling or coaxial cable connectors. It's pretty likely that you've >seen such coaxial-connectors-in-a-Dsub connectors for workstation >monitors. True, but those aren't referred to as DB-foo; the most common is referred to as 13W3. >Don't forget the *very* common (thesedays) 15-pins in a E-size >shell connector used for VGA monitors. The shell size is not >completely redundant. Agreed, but, again, those aren't called DE-15. (Nearly everyone calls 'em HD-15.) ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? Date: 13 Jul 2000 18:48:35 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 16 Message-ID: <8kl2u3$jt6@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> References: <20000701065009.19348.00000395@ng-fh1.aol.com> <8kf7ct$p5l$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> <396CA529.3B5E2996@earthlink.net> <525849CF68B224DF.01596731FDBF4ADE.1CA5851AC7C19D38@lp.airnews.net> <2000Jul13.101552.12763@lorelei.approve.se> <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <8kkr5j$f6k$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: u3.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u3.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59765 Ben Harris wrote: : In article <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net>, : Eric Chomko wrote: [...] : > : >Anyway, DB-9...I think that's all I can come up with off the top of my : >head. : Erm, all of those are DE-9. DB-9 would be a 9-pin connector in the same : shell as a DB-25 connector. Goran Larsson was, of course, pulling your : leg. Yes, I corrected it on the previous post. But does he KNOW all the uses of the DE-9 connector? I understand that Sun, too, uses (used?) it. Eric ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? Date: 13 Jul 2000 18:57:13 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 21 Message-ID: <8kl3e9$jt6@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> References: <8kf7ct$p5l$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> <396CA529.3B5E2996@earthlink.net> <525849CF68B224DF.01596731FDBF4ADE.1CA5851AC7C19D38@lp.airnews.net> <2000Jul13.101552.12763@lorelei.approve.se> <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: u3.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.axxsys.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u3.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59764 Jay Maynard wrote: : On 13 Jul 2000 16:27:39 GMT, Eric Chomko wrote: : >Goran Larsson wrote: : >: Btw, I have never seen a DB-9, what else have they been used for? :-) : >Apple used them on the first Mac mouse (which is different than the : >serial spec on a PC). : (examples snipped) : Goran's being humorously picky. The connector is, properly, termed DE-9, not : DB-9; the only true DB is the DB-25. The letter designates the physical size Yes, I posted my correction already... : of the shell (somewhat redundantly, sicne that also controls the number of : pins). Thus, the proper names are DS-15, DB-25, DC-37, DD-50, and DE-9. Like Wait, now what is the difference between DS-15 and DA-15? See: http://csgrad.cs.vt.edu/~tjohnson/pinouts/d15.gif as my reference? Eric From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? Date: 13 Jul 2000 18:57:13 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 21 Message-ID: <8kl3e9$jt6@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> References: <8kf7ct$p5l$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> <396CA529.3B5E2996@earthlink.net> <525849CF68B224DF.01596731FDBF4ADE.1CA5851AC7C19D38@lp.airnews.net> <2000Jul13.101552.12763@lorelei.approve.se> <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: u3.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.axxsys.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u3.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59764 Jay Maynard wrote: : On 13 Jul 2000 16:27:39 GMT, Eric Chomko wrote: : >Goran Larsson wrote: : >: Btw, I have never seen a DB-9, what else have they been used for? :-) : >Apple used them on the first Mac mouse (which is different than the : >serial spec on a PC). : (examples snipped) : Goran's being humorously picky. The connector is, properly, termed DE-9, not : DB-9; the only true DB is the DB-25. The letter designates the physical size Yes, I posted my correction already... : of the shell (somewhat redundantly, sicne that also controls the number of : pins). Thus, the proper names are DS-15, DB-25, DC-37, DD-50, and DE-9. Like Wait, now what is the difference between DS-15 and DA-15? See: http://csgrad.cs.vt.edu/~tjohnson/pinouts/d15.gif as my reference? Eric ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? Date: 14 Jul 2000 02:04:22 GMT Organization: Neosoft (using Airnews.net!) Lines: 6 Message-ID: <8935F949B8793720.779736F1282EC1CC.4D7FCBB4FB081946@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: References: <8kl3e9$jt6@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> X-A-Notice: References line has been trimmed due to 512 byte limitation Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: 204.181.96.50 NNTP-Posting-Time: Thu Jul 13 21:04:22 2000 NNTP-Posting-Host: ![/=)1k-X$7B6'L (Encoded at Airnews!) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!feeder.via.net!HSNX.atgi.net!cabal11.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal14.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal2.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!jmaynard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59756 On 13 Jul 2000 18:57:13 GMT, Eric Chomko wrote: >: pins). Thus, the proper names are DS-15, DB-25, DC-37, DD-50, and DE-9. Like >Wait, now what is the difference between DS-15 and DA-15? See: >http://csgrad.cs.vt.edu/~tjohnson/pinouts/d15.gif as my reference? Typo. I meant DA-15. ###### Message-ID: <396ECA19.A5D73C19@netinsight.se> From: Johnny Billquist Organization: Netinsight AB X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? References: <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 30 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:07:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.16.221.33 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.com X-Trace: newsc.telia.net 963562020 194.16.221.33 (Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:07:00 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:07:00 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!RRZ.Uni-Koeln.DE!news.netcologne.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news.algonet.se!algonet!uninett.no!news.ost.eltele.no!newsfeed1.enitel.no!masternews.telia.net!newsc.telia.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59759 Jay Maynard wrote: > > On 13 Jul 2000 16:27:39 GMT, Eric Chomko wrote: > >Goran Larsson wrote: > >: Btw, I have never seen a DB-9, what else have they been used for? :-) > >Apple used them on the first Mac mouse (which is different than the > >serial spec on a PC). > > (examples snipped) > > Goran's being humorously picky. The connector is, properly, termed DE-9, not > DB-9; the only true DB is the DB-25. Actually, I've seen a few DB connectors that wasn't 25-pin... Among others, I think that Apollo used a DB with three "small" shielded connectors inside. Or that could have been a DS... Does the connectors that have the same form and width, but space for three rows of pins have different names too? DEC (among others) used them for some tape drives. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist | johnny.billquist@netinsight.net Net Insight AB | phone: +46 8 685 04 88 Västberga Allé 9 | fax: +46 8 685 04 20 Box 42093 | SE-126 30 STOCKHOLM, Sweden | http://www.netinsight.net ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? Date: 14 Jul 2000 13:54:49 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 11 Message-ID: <8kn639$57i@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> References: <8kf7ct$p5l$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> <396CA529.3B5E2996@earthlink.net> <525849CF68B224DF.01596731FDBF4ADE.1CA5851AC7C19D38@lp.airnews.net> <2000Jul13.101552.12763@lorelei.approve.se> <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <8935F949B8793720.779736F1282EC1CC.4D7FCBB4FB081946@lp.airnews.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: u3.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!newsfeed.axxsys.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u3.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59760 Jay Maynard wrote: : On 13 Jul 2000 18:57:13 GMT, Eric Chomko wrote: : >: pins). Thus, the proper names are DS-15, DB-25, DC-37, DD-50, and DE-9. Like : >Wait, now what is the difference between DS-15 and DA-15? See: : >http://csgrad.cs.vt.edu/~tjohnson/pinouts/d15.gif as my reference? : Typo. I meant DA-15. Heh,heh,heh, I feel better now having spread the typos around a bit. Eric ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: hoh@approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? Message-ID: <2000Jul14.163044.25253@lorelei.approve.se> Originator: hoh@approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Sender: hoh@lorelei.approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Organization: [1] + 5934 done /bin/rm -rf ~/ & X-No-Archive: yes X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test66 (4 June 1998) References: <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <396ECA19.A5D73C19@netinsight.se> Lines: 28 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:30:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.244.216.28 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 963592638 130.244.216.28 (Fri, 14 Jul 2000 18:37:18 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 18:37:18 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59780 In article <396ECA19.A5D73C19@netinsight.se>, Johnny Billquist wrote: > Actually, I've seen a few DB connectors that wasn't 25-pin... > Among others, I think that Apollo used a DB with three "small" shielded > connectors inside. Or that could have been a DS... They are also used by Sun and SGI, even though they connect the ten "normal" pins differently. Even though these connectors use the DB shell they don't have the DB-13, instead they are called 13W3. > > Does the connectors that have the same form and width, but space for three > rows of pins have different names too? That will be the DD-50 and the DE-15 with three rows. The DE-9 is the same size as DE-15 but with with two rows only. The DD-50 has the normal pin spacing. The DE-15 has narrower spacing and is sometimes called HD-15. DD-50 was used by DEC for some proprietary tape drives and by many older workstations, e.g. Sun, for SCSI. DD-50 is one of the connector alternatives specified in the SCSI-1 standard. DE-9 is used for RS-232 on PC and the DE-15 is used for VGA on PC. -- Göran Larsson Senior Systems Analyst hoh AT approve DOT se begin LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs I'm a signature virus. Please copy me to help me spread! end ###### From: kolya@mit.edu (Nickolai Zeldovich) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? References: <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <396ECA19.A5D73C19@netinsight.se> Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.7 (UNIX) Date: 14 Jul 2000 17:46:50 GMT Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: MULTICS.MIT.EDU X-Trace: dreaderd 963596810 9429 18.187.1.73 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!dreaderd!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59784 In article <396ECA19.A5D73C19@netinsight.se>, Johnny Billquist wrote: >Actually, I've seen a few DB connectors that wasn't 25-pin... >Among others, I think that Apollo used a DB with three "small" shielded >connectors inside. Or that could have been a DS... The connector you're thinking of was the RGB video connector; it had three round shielded connectors in a DS (same as DA?) shell. It also had a similar token ring connector, two shielded connectors on each end and 5 pins in the middle (though I don't believe the pins were used for anything), also in a DS shell. -- kolya ###### From: "Roger Johnstone" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 17:41:44 +1200 Organization: Ihug Limited (Invercargill) Lines: 29 Message-ID: <963639691.166979@inv.ihug.co.nz> References: <6un1k3hs8t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <20000701065009.19348.00000395@ng-fh1.aol.com> <8kf7ct$p5l$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> <396CA529.3B5E2996@earthlink.net> <525849CF68B224DF.01596731FDBF4ADE.1CA5851AC7C19D38@lp.airnews.net> <2000Jul13.101552.12763@lorelei.approve.se> <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: inv.ihug.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Cache-Post-Path: inv.ihug.co.nz!unknown@p3-max2.inv.ihug.co.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!feeder.via.net!ihug.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59799 ---------- In article <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net>, Eric Chomko wrote: >Apple used them on the first Mac mouse (which is different than the >serial spec on a PC). You can still get real cheap (~$1) a DB-9 to >DB-25 serial adaptor with all M/F combinations. I've seen DB-9s used as a >power connector (why?) on an old Zenith PC-clone. They were also the first >PC monitor connector, mono, CGA, EGA graphics. Heck, I knew a guy that >connected a CGA monitor up to the power connector DB-9 on a Zenith. I >said, "Jerry, the monitor is not supposed to make sounds like that and >smoke", "oops...". Apple used to use the standard DB25 for the Apple II serial cards (~1978). When the Mac came out (1984) it used DE9 for the serial ports AND for the mouse, but they were not wired the same as the later IBM PC/AT DE9 serial ports. The Apple //c, which also came out in 1984, used 5 pin DIN connectors! The Mac Plus (1986) used 8 pin mini-DIN, all the Apple II and Mac models after that standardised on the same connector, until they switched to a 9 pin mini-DIN (which was backwards compatible, pin 9 supplied 5V to power external software modems). Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~rojaws ------------------------------------------ Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? [ OK ] ###### From: "Roger Johnstone" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 17:46:38 +1200 Organization: Ihug Limited (Invercargill) Lines: 36 Message-ID: <963639985.766982@inv.ihug.co.nz> References: <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <396DBC9A.2254DB7B@trailing-edge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: inv.ihug.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Cache-Post-Path: inv.ihug.co.nz!unknown@p3-max2.inv.ihug.co.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59800 ---------- In article , jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) wrote: >On Thu, 13 Jul 2000 12:56:58 -0400, Tim Shoppa >wrote: >>It's also possible to put lower-density contacts in, for high-current >>handling or coaxial cable connectors. It's pretty likely that you've >>seen such coaxial-connectors-in-a-Dsub connectors for workstation >>monitors. > >True, but those aren't referred to as DB-foo; the most common is referred to >as 13W3. > >>Don't forget the *very* common (thesedays) 15-pins in a E-size >>shell connector used for VGA monitors. The shell size is not >>completely redundant. > >Agreed, but, again, those aren't called DE-15. (Nearly everyone calls 'em >HD-15.) Then there's the non-standard ones like the D19 that Apple used to use for external floppy drives, or the D23 Amigas use for serial? or parallel? Those D19s are damned hard to get hold of now, it's strange that they didn't become a standard since they're such a useful in-between size. Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~rojaws ------------------------------------------ Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? [ OK ] ###### Sender: azz@cartman.azz.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? References: <6un1k3hs8t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <20000701065009.19348.00000395@ng-fh1.aol.com> <8kf7ct$p5l$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> <396CA529.3B5E2996@earthlink.net> <525849CF68B224DF.01596731FDBF4ADE.1CA5851AC7C19D38@lp.airnews.net> <2000Jul13.101552.12763@lorelei.approve.se> <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> From: azz Date: 15 Jul 2000 22:22:16 +0100 Message-ID: <8766q7qebb.fsf@cartman.azz.net> Lines: 17 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 21.1 - "20 Minutes to Nikko" X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-2-5.cvx2.telinco.net X-Original-Trace: 16 Jul 2000 01:24:25 +0100, ppp-2-5.cvx2.telinco.net NNTP-Posting-Host: news2.cluster1.telinco.net X-Trace: 16 Jul 2000 01:24:25 GMT, news2.cluster1.telinco.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!voyager.nildram.com!peer.news.nildram.co.uk!news.intensive.net!news.telinco.net!cartman.azz.net!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59885 Eric Chomko writes: > Apple used them on the first Mac mouse (which is different than the > serial spec on a PC). A few more: mouse, joystick and lightpen connectors on many 80s micros and consoles, including the Amiga, the Atari ST, the Sega Megadrive; low-voltage AC power connector on the Dragon. The only place I've seen a DE-15 other than on VGA monitors is on the back of my VCR, for connecting a satellite decoder box. The biggest D-type I've ever seen is 50 pins in 3 rows, on a Studer audio mixer. -- Adam Sampson azz@gnu.org ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? References: <6un1k3hs8t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <20000701065009.19348.00000395@ng-fh1.aol.com> <8kf7ct$p5l$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> <396CA529.3B5E2996@earthlink.net> <525849CF68B224DF.01596731FDBF4ADE.1CA5851AC7C19D38@lp.airnews.net> <2000Jul13.101552.12763@lorelei.approve.se> <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <8766q7qebb.fsf@cartman.azz.net> X-Disclaimer: Everything I write is false. Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 16 Jul 2000 17:32:35 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 9 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 16 Jul 2000 17:32:04 -0700, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!feeder.via.net!news.he.net!rn.area.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:59904 azz writes: > The only place I've seen a DE-15 other than on VGA monitors is on the > back of my VCR, for connecting a satellite decoder box. The biggest > D-type I've ever seen is 50 pins in 3 rows, on a Studer audio mixer. The 50-pin job also used to be used by Sun, IBM, and other vendors as a SCSI connector, despite the notable absence of that connector from the ANSI SCSI specification. I've never understood what the heck they were thinking, but at least it wasn't as lame as Apple's use of a DB-25. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? Date: 18 Jul 00 19:02:45 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 30 Message-ID: <1216.234T2284T11425865@sky.bus.com> References: <396DBC9A.2254DB7B@trailing-edge.com> <963639985.766982@inv.ihug.co.nz> <87ya2zbs90.fsf@cartman.azz.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-223.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60022 In article <87ya2zbs90.fsf@cartman.azz.net> azz@gnu.org (Adam Sampson) writes: >"Roger Johnstone" writes: > >> Then there's the non-standard ones like the D19 that Apple used to >> use for external floppy drives, or the D23 Amigas use for serial? or >> parallel? > >Disk drive (male) and RGB monitor (female), actually. Amiga serial and >parallel ports (the A1000 excepted) are standard DB-25s, although some >of the official-unused pins on the serial port carry things like audio >inputs so that you don't need a seperate speaker in the modem. Some of the pins carry power, too. I've learned to be very careful when plugging and unplugging serial cables on my 2000s. Otherwise I'm likely to get a loud POP and a spontaneous reboot. (I haven't let the magic smoke out yet, but I'd rather not take any more chances.) >Of course, actually getting hold of a DB(?)-23 female plug to make up >a monitor cable was hard, so the easiest way was to file two pins' >worth off the end of a DB-25. It is a pain - although a while back I saw bins of 19- and 23-pin D connectors at a local electronics supplier. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### Sender: azz@cartman.azz.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? References: <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <396DBC9A.2254DB7B@trailing-edge.com> <963639985.766982@inv.ihug.co.nz> From: Adam Sampson Message-ID: <87ya2zbs90.fsf@cartman.azz.net> Lines: 19 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 21.1 - "20 Minutes to Nikko" Date: 18 Jul 2000 12:19:23 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.159.21.249 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plus.net.uk X-Trace: stones 963947123 212.159.21.249 (Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:05:23 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:05:23 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!grolier!194.74.65.66.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed1!btnet!landlord!stones.POSTED!cartman.azz.net!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60047 "Roger Johnstone" writes: > Then there's the non-standard ones like the D19 that Apple used to > use for external floppy drives, or the D23 Amigas use for serial? or > parallel? Disk drive (male) and RGB monitor (female), actually. Amiga serial and parallel ports (the A1000 excepted) are standard DB-25s, although some of the official-unused pins on the serial port carry things like audio inputs so that you don't need a seperate speaker in the modem. Of course, actually getting hold of a DB(?)-23 female plug to make up a monitor cable was hard, so the easiest way was to file two pins' worth off the end of a DB-25. -- Adam Sampson azz@gnu.org ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? References: <396DBC9A.2254DB7B@trailing-edge.com> <963639985.766982@inv.ihug.co.nz> <87ya2zbs90.fsf@cartman.azz.net> <1216.234T2284T11425865@sky.bus.com> Organization: Daedalus Consulting X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Message-ID: <963996214.382679@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Cache-Post-Path: shelley.paradise.net.nz!unknown@203-96-144-16.cable.paradise.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 15 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:43:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.152.26 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 963996233 203.96.152.26 (Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:43:53 NZST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:43:53 NZST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.via.net!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60062 Charlie Gibbs wrote: >It is a pain - although a while back I saw bins of 19- and 23-pin >D connectors at a local electronics supplier. Hmm, the local Dick Smith Electronics shop used to manage to thoroughly mix up D?-23s and DB-25s in their bins. I got home once with a fistful of "DB-25s" only to find the damn things weren't the right size. (The DB-25s had mostly been already picked over, so even though the bin was labelled DB-25s, the fistful of plugs contained mostly D-23s.) Fortunately, the male DB-25s I intended to plug them into tended to have only the pins they needed, so the female D-23s still fitted. I still have a couple in service like that. -- don ###### From: "Ronny Martin" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <6un1k3hs8t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <20000701065009.19348.00000395@ng-fh1.aol.com> <8kf7ct$p5l$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> <396CA529.3B5E2996@earthlink.net> <525849CF68B224DF.01596731FDBF4ADE.1CA5851AC7C19D38@lp.airnews.net> <2000Jul13.101552.12763@lorelei.approve.se> <8kkqlr$jrq@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <8766q7qebb.fsf@cartman.azz.net> Subject: Re: DB-9 connector (was Re: 10/100BaseT -- Why RJ45 and why 4 pair? Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:50:40 +0200 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3975a3d7$0$14766@bru5-newsr1.be.uu.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.7.17.5 X-Trace: bru5-newsr1.be.uu.net 964010967 14766 194.7.17.5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!pop-news-1.colt-telecom.nl!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed2.news.nl.uu.net!newsfeed1.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!bru5-newsr1.be.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60056 Eric Smith wrote in message ... >azz writes: >> The only place I've seen a DE-15 other than on VGA monitors is on the >> back of my VCR, for connecting a satellite decoder box. The biggest >> D-type I've ever seen is 50 pins in 3 rows, on a Studer audio mixer. > >The 50-pin job also used to be used by Sun, IBM, and other vendors as >a SCSI connector, despite the notable absence of that connector from >the ANSI SCSI specification. I've never understood what the heck they >were thinking, but at least it wasn't as lame as Apple's use of a DB-25. well, my rather new Agfa Scanner is SCSI... imagine how hard it is to get a 25 pin terminator? Even apple stores over here laugh at me :( Ronny Martin sigless