Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3919CF26.FC2EDFA3@earthlink.net> <8fekci$m33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391C1918.19BF831E@earthlink.net> <8fhgm1$9g7@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u3dn9t530.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8gjc2n$13hk$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> X-Disclaimer: Everything I write is false. Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 25 May 2000 19:42:59 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 18 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 25 May 2000 19:50:23 -0700, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57234 TheCentralScrutinizer.195@pobox.com () writes: > The original IBM PC was a 16K model w/ a cassette interface and no floppy > drives. That was *an* original IBM PC, perhaps, but not by any means the only original IBM PC configuration. The original IBM PC was available in many configurations from the first day of its announcement. Not even considering the expansion cards IBM offered at the time, the base configurations available included 16K to 64K of RAM, and zero, one, or two single-sided floppy drives. My employer bought a system with one floppy drive on the first day of availability. I quickly got frustrated with how many disk swaps IBM DOS 1.0 took to copy the 160K (8-sector single-sided) floppies, since the diskcopy program apparently would not use memory outside of its 64K segment, so the first non-trivial program I wrote for it was a program that would do it in one pass. ###### From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: 25 May 2000 20:23:54 -0700 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 52 Message-ID: <8gkqoa$2uni@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3919CF26.FC2EDFA3@earthlink.net> <8fekci$m33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391C1918.19BF831E@earthlink.net> <8fhgm1$9g7@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u3dn9t530.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8gjc2n$13hk$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-595.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57181 In article , Eric says... > >TheCentralScrutinizer.195@pobox.com () writes: >> The original IBM PC was a 16K model w/ a cassette interface and no floppy >> drives. > >That was *an* original IBM PC, perhaps, but not by any means the only >original IBM PC configuration. > >The original IBM PC was available in many configurations from the first >day of its announcement. Not even considering the expansion cards IBM >offered at the time, the base configurations available included 16K to 64K >of RAM, and zero, one, or two single-sided floppy drives. > >My employer bought a system with one floppy drive on the first day of >availability. I quickly got frustrated with how many disk swaps IBM DOS >1.0 took to copy the 160K (8-sector single-sided) floppies, since the >diskcopy program apparently would not use memory outside of its 64K >segment, so the first non-trivial program I wrote for it was a program >that would do it in one pass. Ah, this seems like an appropriate time for an old folkloric anecdote... Long ago, in my first job in Los Angeles, I worked as a service tech in a ComputerLand store. One of the most common jobs we did was upgrade the single-sided drives in IBM PCs to new double-sided drives. IBM had an exchange program, the customer would pay a fee for the upgrade, we'd send back the drives for a credit to IBM, which presumably was refurbishing them and reusing them as service parts or something. ISTR that the cost per drive was something like $300 and we'd get a credit of about $100 per old drive returned. It was very profitable, or so we thought. At the time, I was working under a Service Manager From Hell, a young, extremely bitchy woman who had just been discharged from the Marines, she was a very unpleasant person to work with, with a propensity for quoting from the bible. The store manager wanted to fire her, but he was afraid of her, and particularly feared her religious wrath until I told him "even the Devil can quote scripture." ha.. But anyway.. At times, we used to have piles of 20 or 30 SS drives sitting up on a shelf waiting for return shipment to IBM for credit. It would normally be my job to package parts returns and send them to IBM, but every time I even looked at the pile of exchanged drives, the woman would scream at me and tell me to leave them alone. Then one day I came back really late from a service call, and I saw her loading the bare drives into the trunk of her car. I decided to have a little chat with the store manager. We checked the service history logs, and counted how many SS drive swaps we had done since the exchange program had started. We had performed hundreds of exchanges. We checked to see how many drives had been sent back to IBM. We had shipped zero. The woman was slipping them out the back door and selling them herself, and pocketing the money. The next day, shortly after she arrived for work, the Service Manager From Hell was escorted from the store in handcuffs. I was promoted to Service Manager. ###### From: "Barry" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3919CF26.FC2EDFA3@earthlink.net> <8fekci$m33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391C1918.19BF831E@earthlink.net> <8fhgm1$9g7@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u3dn9t530.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8gjc2n$13hk$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <8gkqoa$2uni@edrn.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:04:07 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Lines: 32 Message-ID: <3937cce8$0$150$39368dfe@news.twtelecom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.54.252.98 X-Trace: 959958248 news.twtelecom.net 150 216.54.252.98 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!europa.netcrusader.net!209.113.65.250!korova.insync.net!enews.sgi.com!loops.cs.wisc.edu!nntp.inc.net!news.twtelecom.net!news.twtelecom.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57479 "Charles Eicher" wrote in message > > Long ago, in my first job in Los Angeles, I worked as a service tech in a > ComputerLand store. One of the most common jobs we did was upgrade the > single-sided drives in IBM PCs to new double-sided drives. IBM had an exchange > program, the customer would pay a fee for the upgrade, we'd send back the drives > for a credit to IBM, which presumably was refurbishing them and reusing them as > service parts or something. ISTR that the cost per drive was something like $300 > and we'd get a credit of about $100 per old drive returned. This may be totally unrelated but I wonder. Radio Shack's Color Computer came with single sided 160k drives, although the reason for 160k was that they were 35 track drives. They sold these for color computers for years. The story was that Radio Shack had found a really good deal on a lot of single sided 35 track drives and had bough them all up and they disposed of them through Color Computer drive sales. What I'm wondering is whether they might have bought those drives from IBM. Are you sure those weren't 35 track drives? The timing would have been about right, if I remember correctly. Barry ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: 02 Jun 2000 21:43:39 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 50 Message-ID: <6u3dmvamxg.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3919CF26.FC2EDFA3@earthlink.net> <8fekci$m33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391C1918.19BF831E@earthlink.net> <8fhgm1$9g7@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u3dn9t530.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8gjc2n$13hk$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <8gkqoa$2uni@edrn.newsguy.com> <3937cce8$0$150$39368dfe@news.twtelecom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 959975020 387 10.0.3.2 (2 Jun 2000 19:43:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Jun 2000 19:43:40 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57501 "Barry" writes: > "Charles Eicher" wrote in message > > > > ComputerLand store. One of the most common jobs we did was > upgrade the > > single-sided drives in IBM PCs to new double-sided drives. IBM > > This may be totally unrelated but I wonder. Radio Shack's Color > Computer came with single sided 160k drives, although the reason > for 160k was that they were 35 track drives. The reason for then 160k is the combination of: Sides used, tracks, sectors per track, size of sector. Multiply all of these. > What I'm wondering is whether they might have bought those drives > from IBM. No. > Are you sure those weren't 35 track drives? PC Drives have allways been 40 and 80 track: 160k: 1 side * 40 track * 8 sector * 512 byte 180k: 1 side * 40 track * 9 sector * 512 byte 320k: 2 side * 40 track * 8 sector * 512 byte 360k: 2 side * 40 track * 9 sector * 512 byte 1200k: 2 side * 80 track * 15 sector * 512 byte 1440k: 2 side * 80 track * 18 sector * 512 byte 2880k: 2 side * 80 track * 36 sector * 512 byte Your 160k 35 tracks RS most likely look something like this: 157.5k: 1 side * 35 track * 9 sector * 512 byte 157.5k: 1 side * 35 track * 18 sector * 256 byte More likely the bottom one, as 35 tracks were usually 256 byte sectors. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic Use a WIMP (Windows Icons Mouse Pulldowns) interface - or get one with a CLUE (Command Line User Environment)? ###### From: timothy.mccaffrey@spam2filter.unisys.com.takethisoff (Tim McCaffrey) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: 2 Jun 2000 19:02:06 GMT Organization: A series networking Lines: 14 Message-ID: <8h90be$e5c$1@mail.pl.unisys.com> References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3919CF26.FC2EDFA3@earthlink.net> <8fekci$m33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391C1918.19BF831E@earthlink.net> <8fhgm1$9g7@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u3dn9t530.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8gjc2n$13hk$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <8gkqoa$2uni@edrn.newsguy.com> <3937cce8$0$150$39368dfe@news.twtelecom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.63.212.151 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!eanews1.unisys.com!plnews.pl.unisys.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57523 In article <3937cce8$0$150$39368dfe@news.twtelecom.net>, Barry says... >What I'm wondering is whether they might have bought those drives >from IBM. Are you sure those weren't 35 track drives? The timing >would have been about right, if I remember correctly. > Not possible, IBM PCs used 40 track drives from day 1. They were 160K because they were 8 sectors per track. If IBM had used 1024 byte sectors, they could have actually put 200K per SS disk if they had wanted. Tim McCaffrey ###### From: Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 22:23:49 -0500 Lines: 8 Message-ID: <5ot9h8.2d2.ln@mycomputer.example.net> References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u3dn9t530.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8gjc2n$13hk$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <8gkqoa$2uni@edrn.newsguy.com> <3937cce8$0$150$39368dfe@news.twtelecom.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980226 (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.6 (i586)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57531 Barry wrote: : ... The story was that Radio Shack had : found a really good deal on a lot of single sided 35 track drives : and had bough them all up and they disposed of them through Color : Computer drive sales. Original Shugart SA400 drives and the diskettes for them were 35 track. This was years before the IBM PC. I thought even the single sided IBM drives were 40 track. ###### From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: 3 Jun 2000 20:31:43 +0100 Organization: P850 User Group Message-ID: <8hbmev$oa@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3919CF26.FC2EDFA3@earthlink.net> <8fekci$m33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391C1918.19BF831E@earthlink.net> <8fhgm1$9g7@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 960063661 nnrp-09:730 NO-IDENT p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 26 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!grolier!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!p850ug1.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57559 Tim McCaffrey (timothy.mccaffrey@spam2filter.unisys.com.takethisoff) wrote: : In article <3937cce8$0$150$39368dfe@news.twtelecom.net>, Barry says... : >What I'm wondering is whether they might have bought those drives : >from IBM. Are you sure those weren't 35 track drives? The timing : >would have been about right, if I remember correctly. : > : Not possible, IBM PCs used 40 track drives from day 1. They were Yes, but apart from the very earliest TRS-80 Model 1 (not CoCo 1 -- I mean the Z80 box) drives, all Tandy 5.25" drives have actually been 40 track units. It's just that the software didn't use the innermost 5 tracks. People who ran the better TRS-80 OSes (LDOS on the Model 1/3 and OS-9 on the CoCo) invariably formatted the disks for 40 tracks, or sometimes even more (some drives could manage 42 or 43 tracks). The extra storage was certainly useful on a floppy-only system. I doubt that Tandy ever used ex-IBM drives, though. IBM full-height floppies have an IBM logo in the top left corner of the frontpanel (I am looking at a couple in my XT as I type this). I've never seen that on a Tandy drive. -tony ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: 5 Jun 2000 19:13:17 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 39 Message-ID: <8hgu4d$67a@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fhgm1$9g7@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u3dn9t530.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3937cce8$0$150$39368dfe@news.twtelecom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: u3.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!netnews.com!newsin.iconnet.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u3.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57614 Barry wrote: : "Charles Eicher" wrote in message : > : > Long ago, in my first job in Los Angeles, I worked as a service : tech in a : > ComputerLand store. One of the most common jobs we did was : upgrade the : > single-sided drives in IBM PCs to new double-sided drives. IBM : had an exchange : > program, the customer would pay a fee for the upgrade, we'd send : back the drives : > for a credit to IBM, which presumably was refurbishing them and : reusing them as : > service parts or something. ISTR that the cost per drive was : something like $300 : > and we'd get a credit of about $100 per old drive returned. : This may be totally unrelated but I wonder. Radio Shack's Color : Computer came with single sided 160k drives, although the reason : for 160k was that they were 35 track drives. They sold these for : color computers for years. The story was that Radio Shack had : found a really good deal on a lot of single sided 35 track drives : and had bough them all up and they disposed of them through Color : Computer drive sales. : What I'm wondering is whether they might have bought those drives : from IBM. Are you sure those weren't 35 track drives? The timing : would have been about right, if I remember correctly. Wasn't the Shugart 400 a 35 track drive, whereas the Tandon 100 a 40 track drive? I know that the 360k floppy were Tandons, but unsure about the RS CCs. Eric : Barry ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: 5 Jun 2000 19:20:27 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 15 Message-ID: <8hguhr$67a@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fhgm1$9g7@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u3dn9t530.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8h90be$e5c$1@mail.pl.unisys.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: u3.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!netnews.com!newsin.iconnet.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u3.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57618 Tim McCaffrey wrote: : In article <3937cce8$0$150$39368dfe@news.twtelecom.net>, Barry says... : >What I'm wondering is whether they might have bought those drives : >from IBM. Are you sure those weren't 35 track drives? The timing : >would have been about right, if I remember correctly. : > : Not possible, IBM PCs used 40 track drives from day 1. They were : 160K because they were 8 sectors per track. If IBM had used 1024 byte : sectors, they could have actually put 200K per SS disk if they had wanted. This leads me to believe that Radio Shack used Shuagrt 400 drives. Eric ###### From: Jeff Teunissen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Organization: Dusk To Dawn Computing Lines: 33 Message-ID: <393D6AAE.7926BB64@dusknet.dhs.org> References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fhgm1$9g7@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u3dn9t530.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <3937cce8$0$150$39368dfe@news.twtelecom.net> <8hgu4d$67a@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15 i586) X-Accept-Language: en Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 21:50:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.13.35.106 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.mi.home.com 960328215 24.13.35.106 (Tue, 06 Jun 2000 14:50:15 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 14:50:15 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!feeder.via.net!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.mi.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57713 Eric Chomko wrote: > > Barry wrote: [snip] > : This may be totally unrelated but I wonder. Radio Shack's Color > : Computer came with single sided 160k drives, although the reason > : for 160k was that they were 35 track drives. They sold these for > : color computers for years. The story was that Radio Shack had > : found a really good deal on a lot of single sided 35 track drives > : and had bough them all up and they disposed of them through Color > : Computer drive sales. > : > : What I'm wondering is whether they might have bought those drives > : from IBM. Are you sure those weren't 35 track drives? The timing > : would have been about right, if I remember correctly. > > Wasn't the Shugart 400 a 35 track drive, whereas the Tandon 100 a 40 track > drive? I know that the 360k floppy were Tandons, but unsure about the RS > CCs. The Color Computer FD-500 used a Tandon TM 100 mechanism, just like the Model I drive I have sitting in front of me (battleship-grey steel case and all). The -501 and -502 were Mitsumi half-height drives, IIRC (I don't have these models in front of me, they're in the stack of floppy enclosures in the basement). The -501 and -502 were 40-track drives, but the software only used 35 tracks. Under OS-9, they could usually be used as 41- or 42-track drives with no problems. -- | Jeff Teunissen - Pres., Dusk To Dawn Computing - deek at dusknet.dhs.org | Disclaimer: I am my employer, so anything I say goes for me too. :) | Core developer, The QuakeForge Project http://www.quakeforge.net/ | Specializing in Debian GNU/Linux http://dusknet.dhs.org/~deek/ ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: 8 Jun 2000 19:29:24 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 39 Message-ID: <8hos6k$qp4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fhgm1$9g7@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u3dn9t530.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <393D6AAE.7926BB64@dusknet.dhs.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: u3.farm.idt.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u3.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57791 Jeff Teunissen wrote: : Eric Chomko wrote: : > : > Barry wrote: : [snip] : > : This may be totally unrelated but I wonder. Radio Shack's Color : > : Computer came with single sided 160k drives, although the reason : > : for 160k was that they were 35 track drives. They sold these for : > : color computers for years. The story was that Radio Shack had : > : found a really good deal on a lot of single sided 35 track drives : > : and had bough them all up and they disposed of them through Color : > : Computer drive sales. : > : : > : What I'm wondering is whether they might have bought those drives : > : from IBM. Are you sure those weren't 35 track drives? The timing : > : would have been about right, if I remember correctly. : > : > Wasn't the Shugart 400 a 35 track drive, whereas the Tandon 100 a 40 track : > drive? I know that the 360k floppy were Tandons, but unsure about the RS : > CCs. : The Color Computer FD-500 used a Tandon TM 100 mechanism, just like the : Model I drive I have sitting in front of me (battleship-grey steel case and An original TRASH-80?! Gotta see my previous post! : all). The -501 and -502 were Mitsumi half-height drives, IIRC (I don't have : these models in front of me, they're in the stack of floppy enclosures in : the basement). The -501 and -502 were 40-track drives, but the software only : used 35 tracks. Under OS-9, they could usually be used as 41- or 42-track : drives with no problems. But, now a complete turanabout... I'm actually looking for a CoCo model 2 disk drive system. Old RS get's their revenge on me as I actually am trying to put together a CoCo as part of my collection. At least they used the right microprocessor. :) Eric ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fekci$m33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391C1918.19BF831E@earthlink.net> <8fhgm1$9g7@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u3dn9t530.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8gjc2n$13hk$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <8gkqoa$2uni@edrn.newsguy.com> <3937cce8$0$150$39368dfe@news.twtelecom.net> <8h90be$e5c$1@mail.pl.unisys.com> From: jata@aepiax.net (Julian Thomas) Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Message-ID: <3946e795$2$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> X-Newsreader: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v2.19zf/19zf Lines: 22 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 02:02:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.224.125.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@epix.net X-Trace: news1.epix.net 960948120 199.224.125.94 (Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:02:00 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:02:00 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-xfer.epix.net!news1.epix.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57983 In <8h90be$e5c$1@mail.pl.unisys.com>, on 06/02/00 at 07:02 PM, timothy.mccaffrey@spam2filter.unisys.com.takethisoff (Tim McCaffrey) said: >Not possible, IBM PCs used 40 track drives from day 1. They were 160K >because they were 8 sectors per track. They were 160K with PC DOS 1.0 but DOS 1.1 changed the sectoring to 9/track for a total capacity of 180k. -- Julian Thomas: jt . epix @ net http://home.epix.net/~jt remove letter a for email (or switch . and @) In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State! Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc http://www.possi.org -- -- The trouble with our times is that the future is not what it used to be. - Paul Valery ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 14:39:40 -0500 Organization: Smart Lines: 30 Sender: rtchilders@freewwweb.com@*@1cust56.tnt40.dfw5.da.uu.net Message-ID: <8ie37t$23e$1@news.smartworld.net> References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fekci$m33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391C1918.19BF831E@earthlink.net> <8fhgm1$9g7@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u3dn9t530.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8gjc2n$13hk$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <8gkqoa$2uni@edrn.newsguy.com> <3937cce8$0$150$39368dfe@news.twtelecom.net> <8h90be$e5c$1@mail.pl.unisys.com> <3946e795$2$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust56.tnt40.dfw5.da.uu.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.fast.net!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!attmtf!att542!ip.att.net!news.smartworld.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:58070 "Julian Thomas" wrote in message news:3946e795$2$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net... > In <8h90be$e5c$1@mail.pl.unisys.com>, on 06/02/00 > at 07:02 PM, timothy.mccaffrey@spam2filter.unisys.com.takethisoff (Tim > McCaffrey) said: > > >Not possible, IBM PCs used 40 track drives from day 1. They were 160K > >because they were 8 sectors per track. > > They were 160K with PC DOS 1.0 but DOS 1.1 changed the sectoring to > 9/track for a total capacity of 180k. Yep and under Apple Dos you could get a whopping 190 to 220k if I remember correctly. You know I actually miss my old Apple IIe and my Amiga 500. I really liked both systems. > > -- > Julian Thomas: jt . epix @ net http://home.epix.net/~jt > remove letter a for email (or switch . and @) > In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State! > Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc > http://www.possi.org > -- -- > The trouble with our times is that the future is not what it used to be. > - Paul Valery > > > ###### From: Jeff Teunissen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Organization: Dusk To Dawn Computing Lines: 34 Message-ID: <394B24C0.B98BCFA3@dusknet.dhs.org> References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fhgm1$9g7@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u3dn9t530.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <393D6AAE.7926BB64@dusknet.dhs.org> <8hos6k$qp4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15 i586) X-Accept-Language: en Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 07:20:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.13.35.106 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.mi.home.com 961226401 24.13.35.106 (Sat, 17 Jun 2000 00:20:01 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 00:20:01 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.mi.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:58057 Eric Chomko wrote: > > Jeff Teunissen wrote: [snip] > : The Color Computer FD-500 used a Tandon TM 100 mechanism, just like the > : Model I drive I have sitting in front of me (battleship-grey steel case and > > An original TRASH-80?! Gotta see my previous post! I'm probably missing something. :) > : all). The -501 and -502 were Mitsumi half-height drives, IIRC (I don't have > : these models in front of me, they're in the stack of floppy enclosures in > : the basement). The -501 and -502 were 40-track drives, but the software only > : used 35 tracks. Under OS-9, they could usually be used as 41- or 42-track > : drives with no problems. > > But, now a complete turanabout... > > I'm actually looking for a CoCo model 2 disk drive system. Old RS get's > their revenge on me as I actually am trying to put together a CoCo as part > of my collection. At least they used the right microprocessor. :) Heh. Sorry, all I have is the original TRS-80, two CoCo 1's (one E board, one F board, both upgraded to 64K), and a CoCo 3. Sold my CoCo 2 about 9 years ago to a friend that needed a machine to modem on (I gave him my 300 baud Tandy Direct-Connect Modem Pak with it). I have an FD-500, a -501, and two -502s, in various conditions. -- | Jeff Teunissen - Pres., Dusk To Dawn Computing - deek at dusknet.dhs.org | Disclaimer: I am my employer, so anything I say goes for me too. :) | Core developer, The QuakeForge Project http://www.quakeforge.net/ | Specializing in Debian GNU/Linux http://dusknet.dhs.org/~deek/ ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: 28 Jun 2000 19:08:21 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 38 Message-ID: <8jdif5$b34@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn NNTP-Posting-Host: u1.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!newsin.iconnet.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u1.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:58718 Jeff Teunissen wrote: : Eric Chomko wrote: : > : > Jeff Teunissen wrote: : [snip] : > : The Color Computer FD-500 used a Tandon TM 100 mechanism, just like the : > : Model I drive I have sitting in front of me (battleship-grey steel case and : > : > An original TRASH-80?! Gotta see my previous post! : I'm probably missing something. :) Well unless you had the expansion interface for that system, you probably were. Actually, I believe it had to do with non-TRS-80 owners using the term TRASH-80. : > : all). The -501 and -502 were Mitsumi half-height drives, IIRC (I don't have : > : these models in front of me, they're in the stack of floppy enclosures in : > : the basement). The -501 and -502 were 40-track drives, but the software only : > : used 35 tracks. Under OS-9, they could usually be used as 41- or 42-track : > : drives with no problems. : > : > But, now a complete turanabout... : > : > I'm actually looking for a CoCo model 2 disk drive system. Old RS get's : > their revenge on me as I actually am trying to put together a CoCo as part : > of my collection. At least they used the right microprocessor. :) : Heh. Sorry, all I have is the original TRS-80, two CoCo 1's (one E board, : one F board, both upgraded to 64K), and a CoCo 3. Sold my CoCo 2 about 9 : years ago to a friend that needed a machine to modem on (I gave him my 300 : baud Tandy Direct-Connect Modem Pak with it). I have an FD-500, a -501, and : two -502s, in various conditions. I have the CoCo 2, what I lack is a disk drive system. Will one of the above work with a CoCo 2? Eric ###### From: Jeff Teunissen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Organization: Dusk To Dawn Computing Lines: 31 Message-ID: <395B4620.193D91E@dusknet.dhs.org> References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn <8jdif5$b34@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15 i586) X-Accept-Language: en Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:00:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.13.35.106 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.mi.home.com 962283601 24.13.35.106 (Thu, 29 Jun 2000 06:00:01 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 06:00:01 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.mi.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:58714 Eric Chomko wrote: > > Jeff Teunissen wrote: [snip] > : I'm probably missing something. :) > > Well unless you had the expansion interface for that system, you probably > were. Actually, I believe it had to do with non-TRS-80 owners using the > term TRASH-80. Actually, I do have the expansion interface -- complete with genuine Radio Shack serial card (capable of a mind-boggling 19200 bps, heh). Don't ya just love how they put that heat-generating power brick into a well INSIDE the expansion interface? :) > : Heh. Sorry, all I have is the original TRS-80, two CoCo 1's (one E board, > : one F board, both upgraded to 64K), and a CoCo 3. Sold my CoCo 2 about 9 > : years ago to a friend that needed a machine to modem on (I gave him my 300 > : baud Tandy Direct-Connect Modem Pak with it). I have an FD-500, a -501, and > : two -502s, in various conditions. > > I have the CoCo 2, what I lack is a disk drive system. Will one of the > above work with a CoCo 2? Yup, they'll all work just fine in a CoCo 2. -- | Jeff Teunissen - Pres., Dusk To Dawn Computing - deek at dusknet.dhs.org | Disclaimer: I am my employer, so anything I say goes for me too. :) | Core developer, The QuakeForge Project http://www.quakeforge.net/ | Specializing in Debian GNU/Linux http://dusknet.dhs.org/~deek/ ###### From: Eric Chomko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: 30 Jun 2000 17:40:53 GMT Organization: IDT Internet Services Lines: 37 Message-ID: <8jim35$h17@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> References: <8fanf1$ih4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fekci$m33@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391C1918.19BF831E@earthlink.net> <8fhgm1$9g7@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6 NNTP-Posting-Host: u2.farm.idt.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961025] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!newsin.iconnet.net!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!u2.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:58773 Jeff Teunissen wrote: : Eric Chomko wrote: : > : > Jeff Teunissen wrote: : [snip] : > : I'm probably missing something. :) : > : > Well unless you had the expansion interface for that system, you probably : > were. Actually, I believe it had to do with non-TRS-80 owners using the : > term TRASH-80. : Actually, I do have the expansion interface -- complete with genuine Radio : Shack serial card (capable of a mind-boggling 19200 bps, heh). Don't ya just : love how they put that heat-generating power brick into a well INSIDE the : expansion interface? :) Yes, without the expansion interface the system seemed worthless. : > : Heh. Sorry, all I have is the original TRS-80, two CoCo 1's (one E board, : > : one F board, both upgraded to 64K), and a CoCo 3. Sold my CoCo 2 about 9 : > : years ago to a friend that needed a machine to modem on (I gave him my 300 : > : baud Tandy Direct-Connect Modem Pak with it). I have an FD-500, a -501, and : > : two -502s, in various conditions. : > : > I have the CoCo 2, what I lack is a disk drive system. Will one of the : > above work with a CoCo 2? : Yup, they'll all work just fine in a CoCo 2. Interested in parting with a controller and a drive or two? Do you collect? I have loads of Mac 68K based stuff and more PC hardware (ISA technology than I care to remember). Some SS-50 based stuff. Oh yes, US coins as well as I just picked up some silver dollars from a dealer friend of mine while on vacation. Email me if you like. Eric ###### From: fixxit@bright.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Message-ID: References: <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8gjc2n$13hk$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <8gkqoa$2uni@edrn.newsguy.com> <3937cce8$0$150$39368dfe@news.twtelecom.net> <8h90be$e5c$1@mail.pl.unisys.com> <3946e795$2$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> <8ie37t$23e$1@news.smartworld.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/16.548 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:59:42 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.201.28.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@bright.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 964051023 216.201.28.30 (Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:57:03 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:57:03 EDT Organization: bright.net Ohio Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!triton.skycache.com!205.212.123.11!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60143 "Robert Childers" wrote: >> 9/track for a total capacity of 180k. >Yep and under Apple Dos you could get a whopping 190 to 220k if I remember >correctly. You know I actually miss my old Apple IIe and my Amiga 500. I >really liked both systems. I have a IIe that I've been trying to trade or sell for a long time. I had it traded once, but suddenly the guy dropped out of touch. His email bounced, and i couldn't find him in the newsgroup. Anybody interested? When replying, send a copy via email--sometimes I don't keep up with the group! Note the URL for email corrections--Visit my web page to see what I do... www.bright.net/~fixit ###### From: fixxit@bright.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Message-ID: References: <391D895C.EFB52F2E@earthlink.net> <8fnong$eql@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8fud4d$5j1@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <3923F80C.5E7A6E9A@earthlink.net> <8g3hkr$hbq@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <39294069.F0406D83@earthlink.net> <8ge9p3$sfn@nnrp4.farm.idt.net> <6u3dn9t530.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <393D6AAE.7926BB64@dusknet.dhs.org> <8hos6k$qp4@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <394B24C0.B98BCFA3@dusknet.dhs.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/16.548 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:59:45 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.201.28.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@bright.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 964051025 216.201.28.30 (Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:57:05 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:57:05 EDT Organization: bright.net Ohio Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!triton.skycache.com!205.212.123.11!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60128 Jeff Teunissen wrote: >Heh. Sorry, all I have is the original TRS-80, two CoCo 1's (one E board, >one F board, both upgraded to 64K), and a CoCo 3. Sold my CoCo 2 about 9 >years ago to a friend that needed a machine to modem on (I gave him my 300 >baud Tandy Direct-Connect Modem Pak with it). I have an FD-500, a -501, and >two -502s, in various conditions. Hey, I've got a TRS-80 m'self! It worked when I packed it up (it's been in a box for several years); my last boot disk finally died, and I retired it. I've also got a TI 99/4a, and an Apple IIe. Anybody interested to trade something for them? When replying, send a copy via email--sometimes I don't keep up with the group! Note the URL for email corrections--Visit my web page to see what I do... www.bright.net/~fixit ###### From: Lord Xarph and his Empty Bank Account Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 22:30:41 -0700 Organization: The Weirdness Factory Lines: 22 Message-ID: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> References: <8ggol2$7e4@nnrp3.farm.idt.net> <6un1lf22n0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8gjahv$ffg@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <8gjc2n$13hk$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <8gkqoa$2uni@edrn.newsguy.com> <3937cce8$0$150$39368dfe@news.twtelecom.net> <8h90be$e5c$1@mail.pl.unisys.com> <3946e795$2$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> <8ie37t$23e$1@news.smartworld.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60276 fixxit@bright.net wrote: > I have a IIe that I've been trying to trade or sell for a long time. I > had it traded once, but suddenly the guy dropped out of touch. His > email bounced, and i couldn't find him in the newsgroup. I also have a IIe. I find them to be the most difficult pieces of hardware in the world to unload, for the sole fact that everyone who wants one already has it. My brother just recently came into posession of ->75<- IIe's that he is desperate to get out of storage without resorting to destruction (t'would be sad to see them go). "White elephant" is a term that takes on new meanings with IIe traders. -Lx? -- Lord Xarph xarph+sig@blueneptune.com By the act of sending any email advertising a product, service, or financial opportunity to any address containing the phrase "xarph", you grant full permission for the owner of said address to take formal action against you. This action will include forfeiture of your internet access and possible financial damages. HR 3113 be damned. ###### From: Jim Stewart Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 08:56:33 -0700 Organization: http://www.jkmicro.com Lines: 18 Message-ID: <25355C9D0CEF7ADC.9B1951BAE60015F1.5D8A076FC266BCD0@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: <397C6731.D0039866@jkmicro.com> References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> X-A-Notice: References line has been trimmed due to 512 byte limitation Reply-To: jstewart@jkmicro.com Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: 204.181.96.50 NNTP-Posting-Time: Mon Jul 24 10:45:11 2000 NNTP-Posting-Host: !X7@)1k-WCV":]SA9`87@;oaN (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!news.iif.hu!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!news-out.nntp.airnews.net.MISMATCH!cabal10.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal14.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60387 Lord Xarph and his Empty Bank Account wrote: > > fixxit@bright.net wrote: > > I have a IIe that I've been trying to trade or sell for a long time. I > > had it traded once, but suddenly the guy dropped out of touch. His > > email bounced, and i couldn't find him in the newsgroup. > > I also have a IIe. I find them to be the most difficult pieces of hardware in > the world to unload, for the sole fact that everyone who wants one already has > it. My brother just recently came into posession of ->75<- IIe's that he is > desperate to get out of storage without resorting to destruction (t'would be > sad to see them go). > > "White elephant" is a term that takes on new meanings with IIe traders. IIe's are priced $5 each in thrift shops here - with no takers. ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:46:20 GMT Organization: Okanagan Internet Junction Lines: 16 Message-ID: <397c99d7.1608035@news.shuswap.net> References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <25355C9D0CEF7ADC.9B1951BAE60015F1.5D8A076FC266BCD0@lp.airnews.net> Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm3-00.shuswap.net X-Trace: news.junction.net 964471518 21357 139.142.177.130 (24 Jul 2000 20:45:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@junction.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jul 2000 20:45:18 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!cyclone.bc.net!news.junction.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60499 Jim Stewart wrote: [snip] >IIe's are priced $5 each in thrift shops here - with no takers. Why such low demand? Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: David Razler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Reply-To: david.razler@worldnet.com Message-ID: References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <25355C9D0CEF7ADC.9B1951BAE60015F1.5D8A076FC266BCD0@lp.airnews.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:33:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.65.35 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 964524783 12.79.65.35 (Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:33:03 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:33:03 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.20!wnmasters3!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60536 On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 08:56:33 -0700, Jim Stewart wrote: > > >Lord Xarph and his Empty Bank Account wrote: >> >> fixxit@bright.net wrote: >> > I have a IIe that I've been trying to trade or sell for a long time. I >> > had it traded once, but suddenly the guy dropped out of touch. His >> > email bounced, and i couldn't find him in the newsgroup. >> >> I also have a IIe. I find them to be the most difficult pieces of hardware in >> the world to unload, for the sole fact that everyone who wants one already has >> it. My brother just recently came into posession of ->75<- IIe's that he is >> desperate to get out of storage without resorting to destruction (t'would be >> sad to see them go). >> >> "White elephant" is a term that takes on new meanings with IIe traders. > >IIe's are priced $5 each in thrift shops here - with no takers. I'd like one, anyway - actually two - one for parts. Will even trade a DEC Rainbow pseudo-PC clone (working) for a complete, early IIe with spares. dmr ###### From: Celt Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:58:34 -0600 Message-ID: References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <25355C9D0CEF7ADC.9B1951BAE60015F1.5D8A076FC266BCD0@lp.airnews.net> <397c99d7.1608035@news.shuswap.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.174.31.80 X-Trace: 25 Jul 2000 11:57:51 -0500, 207.174.31.80 Lines: 33 X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 80,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!europa.netcrusader.net!204.71.68.178!local-out.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!corp.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!207.174.31.80 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60462 On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:46:20 GMT, genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) wrote: >Jim Stewart wrote: > >[snip] > >>IIe's are priced $5 each in thrift shops here - with no takers. > > Why such low demand? > >Sincerely, > >Gene Wirchenko > >Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: > I have preferences. > You have biases. > He/She has prejudices. The IIe was produced, in it's various incarnations, for over ten years, making it (IIRC) the longest production run in the history of computers. Millions of the units were sold, and hence are easily obtainable today. The IIe was also very robust and many of the original units are still operational today, making thrift store machines less appealing. Celt -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ###### From: roggblake@inamme.com (Roger Blake) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <25355C9D0CEF7ADC.9B1951BAE60015F1.5D8A076FC266BCD0@lp.airnews.net> <397c99d7.1608035@news.shuswap.net> X-No-Archive: Yes Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 16 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:56:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.50.144.59 X-Complaints-To: noc@capu.net X-Trace: news.abs.net 964551403 64.50.144.59 (Tue, 25 Jul 2000 14:56:43 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 14:56:43 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!news.abs.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60565 On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:58:34 -0600, Celt wrote: >The IIe was produced, in it's various incarnations, for over ten >years, making it (IIRC) the longest production run in the history of >computers. ... Ten whole years. Wow. But what about systems such as the PDP-11? Manufactured by DEC from 1970 to 1990, and still not dead -- many still in service, and Mentec still produces parts and software for it. Looks like the IIe might not be quite the "longest production run in the history of computers" after all, eh? -- Roger Blake (remove second "g" and second "m" from address for email) ###### From: Celt Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:09:35 -0600 Message-ID: References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <25355C9D0CEF7ADC.9B1951BAE60015F1.5D8A076FC266BCD0@lp.airnews.net> <397c99d7.1608035@news.shuswap.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.174.31.87 X-Trace: 25 Jul 2000 16:08:52 -0500, 207.174.31.87 Lines: 25 X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 80,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.via.net!earthquake.efnet.com!efnet.com!local-out.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!corp.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!207.174.31.87 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60628 On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:56:43 GMT, roggblake@inamme.com (Roger Blake) wrote: >On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:58:34 -0600, Celt wrote: >>The IIe was produced, in it's various incarnations, for over ten >>years, making it (IIRC) the longest production run in the history of >>computers. ... > >Ten whole years. Wow. > >But what about systems such as the PDP-11? Manufactured by DEC from 1970 >to 1990, and still not dead -- many still in service, and Mentec still >produces parts and software for it. Looks like the IIe might not be >quite the "longest production run in the history of computers" after >all, eh? Thanks for the correction. Perhaps I should have said "history of microcomputers"... Celt -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ###### Message-ID: <397DD59E.17CCF996@trailing-edge.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 17:59:58 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.2 AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <25355C9D0CEF7ADC.9B1951BAE60015F1.5D8A076FC266BCD0@lp.airnews.net> <397c99d7.1608035@news.shuswap.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: reader1.news.uu.net 964562399 29412 63.73.218.130 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!spool1.news.uu.net!spool0.news.uu.net!reader1.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60595 Roger Blake wrote: > > On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:58:34 -0600, Celt wrote: > >The IIe was produced, in it's various incarnations, for over ten > >years, making it (IIRC) the longest production run in the history of > >computers. ... > > Ten whole years. Wow. > > But what about systems such as the PDP-11? Manufactured by DEC from 1970 > to 1990, and still not dead -- many still in service, and Mentec still > produces parts and software for it. Looks like the IIe might not be > quite the "longest production run in the history of computers" after > all, eh? The technologies used to implement the PDP-11 range from flip chips (mostly TTL, some DTL and discrete transistors) all the way to VLSI parts (the J11). PDP-11 systems, sizewise, run the gamut from desktop boxes (small Q-bus systems and DEC Professionals) to rack-mount minis to multi-rack configurations with multiple buses and data hoses (such as an 11/70 with a bunch of massbus cables and memory boxes.) The IIe, on the other hand, was always the same box with the same parts inside, always based around the same identical CPU chip. So they're impressive in different ways. The IIe was amazing because of its constancy on both the inside and outside, while the PDP-11 is amazing because of its long life spanning many different implementations of the same basic architecture. Tim. ###### From: "Roger Johnstone" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 21:35:32 +1200 Organization: ihug (Invercargill) Lines: 52 Message-ID: <964604109.977051@inv.ihug.co.nz> References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <25355C9D0CEF7ADC.9B1951BAE60015F1.5D8A076FC266BCD0@lp.airnews.net> <397c99d7.1608035@news.shuswap.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: inv.ihug.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Cache-Post-Path: inv.ihug.co.nz!unknown@p21-max1.inv.ihug.co.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.via.net!ihug.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60570 ---------- In article , Celt wrote: >On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:46:20 GMT, genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) >wrote: > >>Jim Stewart wrote: >> >>[snip] >> >>>IIe's are priced $5 each in thrift shops here - with no takers. >> >> Why such low demand? >> >>Sincerely, >> >>Gene Wirchenko >> >>Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: >> I have preferences. >> You have biases. >> He/She has prejudices. > >The IIe was produced, in it's various incarnations, for over ten >years, making it (IIRC) the longest production run in the history of >computers. Millions of the units were sold, and hence are easily >obtainable today. The IIe was also very robust and many of the >original units are still operational today, making thrift store >machines less appealing. > >Celt The other thing is, for anyone still interested in Apple II's, they can pick up an Apple IIgs for not much more than a IIe (The IIgs has a 16-bit processor, at least 256KB on the motherboard and runs 2.5x faster). I sold my IIe with printer, green monitor, mouse and 5.25" floppy drive about 8 years ago for US$400 and upgraded to a used IIgs, which I still have. Last year I picked up an Apple IIe system for US$25, just to have one. What does cost dearly are some of the peripherals. For instance SCSI cards are no longer available new, and the Apple SCSI card is now regularly selling for over US$100, which is how much it cost 10 years ago when it was released! Recently one sold on ebay for $260, obviously to a collector. Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~rojaws ------------------------------------------ If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it. ~ W.C. Fields ###### Sender: azz@cartman.azz.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <25355C9D0CEF7ADC.9B1951BAE60015F1.5D8A076FC266BCD0@lp.airnews.net> From: Adam Sampson Message-ID: <87n1j5g72l.fsf@cartman.azz.net> Lines: 12 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.6.45/XEmacs 21.1 - "Carlsbad Caverns" Date: 25 Jul 2000 23:48:18 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.159.25.31 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plus.net.uk X-Trace: stones 964645871 212.159.25.31 (Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:11:11 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:11:11 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!peer.news.th.u-net.net!u-net!btnet-peer0!btnet!landlord!stones.POSTED!cartman.azz.net!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60684 Jim Stewart writes: > > "White elephant" is a term that takes on new meanings with IIe traders. > IIe's are priced $5 each in thrift shops here - with no takers. Argh. I'd _love_ a IIe, but I'm in the UK, where nobody had them. I've got a brace of ZX81s instead, but it's not quite the same... -- Adam Sampson azz@gnu.org ###### Message-ID: <39801CB7.1AB28D5B@netinsight.se> From: Johnny Billquist Organization: Netinsight AB X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <25355C9D0CEF7ADC.9B1951BAE60015F1.5D8A076FC266BCD0@lp.airnews.net> <397c99d7.1608035@news.shuswap.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 33 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:27:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.16.221.33 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.com X-Trace: newsc.telia.net 964697273 194.16.221.33 (Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:27:53 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:27:53 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!news.algonet.se!algonet!uninett.no!news.ost.eltele.no!newsfeed1.enitel.no!masternews.telia.net!newsc.telia.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60666 Roger Blake wrote: > > On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:58:34 -0600, Celt wrote: > >The IIe was produced, in it's various incarnations, for over ten > >years, making it (IIRC) the longest production run in the history of > >computers. ... > > Ten whole years. Wow. > > But what about systems such as the PDP-11? Manufactured by DEC from 1970 > to 1990, and still not dead -- many still in service, and Mentec still > produces parts and software for it. Looks like the IIe might not be > quite the "longest production run in the history of computers" after > all, eh? Hmmm, DEC stopped manufacturing and selling PDP-11 in 1995 or so, which makes it 25 years. The last *new* model (11/9x) came out in 1990. But since DEC wasn't the only manufacturer of PDP-11s, why should we stop there. There are atleast three PDP-11 manufacturers in the business today, making it just as alive and kicking as ever. You have Mentec, Quickware and Strobe Data, that I'm aware of. Quickware makes blazing fast PDP-11s, and Mentec also owns the software and keep development going. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist | johnny.billquist@netinsight.net Net Insight AB | phone: +46 8 685 04 88 Västberga Allé 9 | fax: +46 8 685 04 20 Box 42093 | SE-126 30 STOCKHOLM, Sweden | http://www.netinsight.net ###### From: Eric Fischer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: 27 Jul 2000 17:11:16 GMT Organization: EnterAct Corp. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <8lpqfk$50k$1@news.enteract.com> References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <397DD59E.17CCF996@trailing-edge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell-3.enteract.com X-Trace: news.enteract.com 964717876 5140 207.229.143.42 (27 Jul 2000 17:11:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@enteract.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 2000 17:11:16 GMT X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) Originator: enf@enteract.com (Eric Fischer) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60685 Tim Shoppa wrote: > The IIe, on the other hand, was always the same box with the same > parts inside, always based around the same identical CPU chip. Not *completely* identical... I can think of at least a few variations on the basic machine: 1983: beige case, plastic latches, 6502 processor, 64K RAM chips, no double-hi-res graphics, no number pad, old ROMs 1984: beige case, snap latches, 6502 processor, 64K RAM chips, double-hi-res graphics, no number pad, old ROMs 1985: beige case, snap latches, 65C02 processor, 64K RAM chips, double hi-res graphics, no number pad, new ROMs 1986: gray case, snap latches, 65C02 processor, 256K RAM chips, double hi-res graphics, number pad, new ROMs But yes, a lot more stayed the same than changed. eric ###### From: phil@panix.com (Phil Gustafson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: 27 Jul 2000 14:43:32 -0400 Organization: Once-famed Parquet Floor Lines: 17 Message-ID: <8lpvsk$bqi$1@panix2.panix.com> References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <397DD59E.17CCF996@trailing-edge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 964723413 19194 166.84.0.227 (27 Jul 2000 18:43:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 2000 18:43:33 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!panix!news.panix.com!panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60682 Tim Shoppa writes: > >So they're impressive in different ways. The IIe was amazing because >of its constancy on both the inside and outside, while the PDP-11 >is amazing because of its long life spanning many different >implementations of the same basic architecture. > From that point of view, the PDP-11 is trounced by the S/360, and will soon be passed by the PC. Phil Gustafson -- )) (( Phil Gustafson Urban Legends FAQ: http://www.urbanlegends.com C|~~| Java FAQ: http://www.afu.com `--' ###### Message-ID: <3981692A.FE1CD0EF@netinsight.se> From: Johnny Billquist Organization: Netinsight AB X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <397DD59E.17CCF996@trailing-edge.com> <8lpvsk$bqi$1@panix2.panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 27 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:06:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.16.221.33 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.com X-Trace: newsc.telia.net 964782378 194.16.221.33 (Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:06:18 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:06:18 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news.algonet.se!algonet!uninett.no!news.ost.eltele.no!newsfeed1.enitel.no!masternews.telia.net!newsc.telia.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60735 Phil Gustafson wrote: > > Tim Shoppa writes: > > > >So they're impressive in different ways. The IIe was amazing because > >of its constancy on both the inside and outside, while the PDP-11 > >is amazing because of its long life spanning many different > >implementations of the same basic architecture. > > > From that point of view, the PDP-11 is trounced by the S/360, and will > soon be passed by the PC. How do you count that? The PDP-11 came out about 11 years before the PC, and is still being manufactured. The IBM machines are probably the oldest systems still in production, though. Or are they? Can you still buy a machine that will run OS/360? Johnny -- Johnny Billquist | johnny.billquist@netinsight.net Net Insight AB | phone: +46 8 685 04 88 Västberga Allé 9 | fax: +46 8 685 04 20 Box 42093 | SE-126 30 STOCKHOLM, Sweden | http://www.netinsight.net ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: 28 Jul 2000 11:55:34 GMT Organization: Neosoft (using Airnews.net!) Lines: 10 Message-ID: <3F5A2892AAD851DC.588CBB4037D009A1.1D0D269AD5C3AB9B@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <397DD59E.17CCF996@trailing-edge.com> <8lpvsk$bqi$1@panix2.panix.com> <3981692A.FE1CD0EF@netinsight.se> Reply-To: jmaynard@conmicro.cx Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library2.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Fri Jul 28 06:55:34 2000 NNTP-Posting-Host: ![eU+1k-Wu6a#pB (Encoded at Airnews!) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news-out.nntp.airnews.net.MISMATCH!cabal10.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal14.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal2.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!jmaynard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60729 On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:06:18 GMT, Johnny Billquist wrote: >The IBM machines are probably the oldest systems still in production, >though. >Or are they? Can you still buy a machine that will run OS/360? No. (At least, not natively.) The IBM S/390s you buy today will only run ESA versions of the operating systems. Even for those machines that can be IMPLed into S/370 mode, the last several had a couple of incompatibilities that precluded running OS/360. ###### Message-ID: <3981E6C1.F385BBFB@thinkage.ca> From: "Alan T. Bowler" Organization: Thinkage Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <397DD59E.17CCF996@trailing-edge.com> <8lpvsk$bqi$1@panix2.panix.com> <3981692A.FE1CD0EF@netinsight.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:02:09 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.102.11.4 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 964814706 192.102.11.4 (Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:05:06 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:05:06 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gblx.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60788 Johnny Billquist wrote: > > How do you count that? The PDP-11 came out about 11 years before the PC, > and is still being manufactured. > > The IBM machines are probably the oldest systems still in production, > though. > Or are they? Can you still buy a machine that will run OS/360? Bull still produces machines with the 36-bit architecture of the GE-600 series. That might slightly predate the /360. They won't run GECOS-III, but most binary images compiled for GECOS-III will still run under Gcos-8. (I suspect the same is true for the /360 descendants of today, OS/360 itself would not run on the new hardware but user programs probably do.) I thought Unisys still built machines with the 1108 (36 bit) architecture, again that might slightly predate the /360. ###### From: phil@panix.com (Phil Gustafson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: 28 Jul 2000 17:30:34 -0400 Organization: Once-famed Parquet Floor Lines: 19 Message-ID: <8lsu1q$j2q$1@panix2.panix.com> References: <39793181.C9BB1FF4@blueneptune.com> <397DD59E.17CCF996@trailing-edge.com> <8lpvsk$bqi$1@panix2.panix.com> <3981692A.FE1CD0EF@netinsight.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 964819834 18890 166.84.0.227 (28 Jul 2000 21:30:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jul 2000 21:30:34 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!logbridge.uoregon.edu!panix!news.panix.com!panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60799 Johnny Billquist writes: >Phil Gustafson wrote: >> > >> From that point of view, the PDP-11 is trounced by the S/360, and will >> soon be passed by the PC. > >How do you count that? The PDP-11 came out about 11 years before the PC, >and is still being manufactured. > My bad. I misinterpreted the 1990 datesomeone else posted. It's nice to know 11-types are still being made. Phil -- )) (( Phil Gustafson Urban Legends FAQ: http://www.urbanlegends.com C|~~| Java FAQ: http://www.afu.com `--' ###### Lines: 11 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: r124c4u2@aol.com (R124c4u2) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: 29 Jul 2000 13:22:31 GMT References: <3981E6C1.F385BBFB@thinkage.ca> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Message-ID: <20000729092231.20967.00001587@ng-ch1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60840 Alan T. Bowler writes: >I thought Unisys still built >machines with the 1108 (36 bit) architecture, again that might >slightly predate the /360. The 1108 was, I think, later than the 360. But the architecture in a 1108 is essentially that of the 1107 which is a lot earlier than the 360. I don't know if a follow on (to the 1107) is still being built. The number sequence is quite confusing - the numbers weren't assigned in chronological order. An 1106 is a messed up 1108! ###### From: William Hamblen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original IBM PC (was Re: Motorola/Intel Wars) Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 17:28:54 -0500 Lines: 14 Message-ID: <67a2m8.869.ln@nashville.com> References: <3981E6C1.F385BBFB@thinkage.ca> <20000729092231.20967.00001587@ng-ch1.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com User-Agent: tin/1.4.3-20000502 ("Marian") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.6 (i586)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:60872 R124c4u2 wrote: : The 1108 was, I think, later than the 360. But the architecture in a 1108 is : essentially that of the 1107 which is a lot earlier than the 360. I don't know : if a follow on (to the 1107) is still being built. The number sequence is : quite confusing - the numbers weren't assigned in chronological order. An 1106 : is a messed up 1108! For what it's worth, my college replaced a 360 with an 1108 about 1968. The 1108 did have time sharing accounts on it. A local service bureau had it's 1108 behind a plate glass window open to the west. I sometimes wonder what heat from the setting sun did to the Fastrand drum. It was pretty, gleaming in the sunlight.