From: benc@krustbustr.benzone.org (Ben Clifford) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 21:00:08 +0000 Organization: benZone Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> Reply-To: benc@benzone.freeserve.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-13.angband.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk 958687656 4050 62.136.111.13 (18 May 2000 22:07:36 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 May 2000 22:07:36 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!benc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:56686 On 13 May 2000 10:36:35 +0300, Ariel Scolnicov wrote: >> I remember seeing a program for the Apple that would reverse the effects of >> NEW (like deleting files, the information is there -- only a few pointers >> get changed). Naturally it was called LAZARUS. > >OLD was standard on the BBC micro (insert obligatory all-other- >-computer-bashing here). And quite useful, at least after you pressed >"break". Hence "*KEY10 OLD". A feature which got many of us[*] into the very bad habit of using break to stop our programs - bad because then we would use something like Acorn LOGO which had no (or not that we knew of) equivalent feature. We usually abbreviated it to O. And we used *W. to start WordWise. And on machines without WordWise, the next in line was *W. == *WIPE ;-) [*]being the 11 year old kids in our school who had to deal with a school full of computer fearing teachers. BBC was the platform that I first used played with SCSI too - that raises some eye-brows when talking to PC people now who have only seen SCSI on big servers. That was on the Domesday System - what ever happened to that? It would make an interesting CD, I am sure, even now. ###### From: dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:06:18 +0100 Organization: I do not speak for anyone but myself, and barely that. Lines: 70 Message-ID: References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.19.67.123 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: 958731792 IIX5YQT0T437BD413C uk25.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarq.com X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:56659 In article , benc@krustbustr.benzone.org (Ben Clifford) writes: >>OLD was standard on the BBC micro (insert obligatory all-other- >>-computer-bashing here). And quite useful, at least after you pressed >>"break". Hence "*KEY10 OLD". > > A feature which got many of us[*] into the very bad habit of using break to > stop our programs - bad because then we would use something like Acorn LOGO > which had no (or not that we knew of) equivalent feature. BBC Basic stored programs in memory starting from PAGE (the base of user memory; on a Master or on systems which had no ROM's that claimed user memory, this was &E00) like this: 0D

tokenised code 0D [...repeated for each line in the program...] 0D FF The FF in the top byte of the line number marked the end of the program; the special variable TOP pointed to the byte immediately afterwards. Variables were stored from TOP upwards and the Basic stack from the top of user memory, HIMEM, downwards. This let you do various tricks, of which OLD was one of them. All it did was write 00 into PAGE+1, overwriting the end-of-program marker; if the rest of the program was intact, you were in luck. If it wasn't, you got the infamous Bad Program error. (If the first line of your program had a number greater than 255, OLD would make it go very funny.) Another thing you could do was concatenate two programs: LOAD "program1" PRINT ~(TOP-2) 1E22 *LOAD program2 1E22 (*LOAD was an OS call that loaded a block of memory at a particular address.) Of course, this wouldn't rationalise the line numbers, so you'd end up with out-of-order line numbering. The programs still worked, though, surprisingly enough. Wow. I'm amazed I could remember that. > BBC was the platform that I first used played with SCSI too - that raises some > eye-brows when talking to PC people now who have only seen SCSI on big servers. My school Econet system's file server had a massive 20MB Winchester disk. The disk had three processors. The file server had two. (Econet was a great system. I've yet to see a PC networking and file sharing system that even approaches it for ease of use and setting up. Secure it wasn't; plain text passwords and documented system calls for poking into another machines memory --- *shudder*. But for the 8-bit systems it was designed for, it was superb. Hierarchical directory structures and user/other file permissions! And it was *way* faster than floppies, particularly if you had a small network and cranked the clock up.) > That was on the Domesday System - what ever happened to that? It would make > an interesting CD, I am sure, even now. Surely, someone somewhere has stuck it all on the web. -- +- David Given ---------------McQ-+ According to the latest official figures, | Work: dg@tao-group.com | 43% of all statistics are totally | Play: dgiven@iname.com | worthless. +- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+ ###### From: benc@krustbustr.benzone.org (Ben Clifford) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:31:53 +0000 Organization: benZone Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> Reply-To: benc@benzone.freeserve.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-112.agarwaen.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 958738844 23133 62.136.99.240 (19 May 2000 12:20:44 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 May 2000 12:20:44 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!benc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:56689 On Fri, 19 May 2000 11:06:18 +0100, David Given wrote: >(Econet was a great system. I've yet to see a PC networking and file >sharing system that even approaches it for ease of use and setting up. It looks like there is some form of Econet support in Linux now, although I haven't looked at it in any detail. Does the Archimedes still use it? Or has it just been put in for "hacker completeness?" ###### From: benc@krustbustr.benzone.org (Ben Clifford) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 13:24:25 +0000 Organization: benZone Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> Reply-To: benc@benzone.freeserve.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-23.dimrill.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk 958743298 9829 62.136.155.23 (19 May 2000 13:34:58 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 May 2000 13:34:58 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!benc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:56677 On 19 May 2000 13:06:28 GMT, Ben Harris wrote: >>It looks like there is some form of Econet support in Linux now, >>although I haven't looked at it in any detail. > >Unfortunately, it's not support for real Econet hardware, just the >Econet-over-IP hack that Acorn produced because real Econet was too slow. So what was that intended for use over? Ethernet? ###### From: dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:30:47 +0100 Organization: I do not speak for anyone but myself, and barely that. Lines: 41 Message-ID: <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.19.67.123 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: 959023289 IIX5YQT0T437BD413C uk21.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarq.com X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news-out.transit.remarq.com.MISMATCH!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:56928 In article , benc@krustbustr.benzone.org (Ben Clifford) writes: > On 19 May 2000 13:06:28 GMT, Ben Harris wrote: >>>It looks like there is some form of Econet support in Linux now, >>>although I haven't looked at it in any detail. >> >>Unfortunately, it's not support for real Econet hardware, just the >>Econet-over-IP hack that Acorn produced because real Econet was too slow. > > So what was that intended for use over? Ethernet? Yup. AUN, it was called. Real Econet hardware was, IIRC and I probably don't, a simple two- or three-wire system; data, clock, and ground. It required seperate terminator boxes for each end, plus a clock box per network; nodes on the network were numbered, not named, and were of the form NET.NODE. Both the network and node numbers varied from 0 to 255, but there were a couple of reserved ones for things like the file server and printer server. Speeds varied from a few hundred kB per second up, depending on the hardware and what speed the clock was set to. This meant that unlike most networking solutions, remote storage was actually faster than local storage on 8-bit machines! The syntax usage followed Acorn's hierarchical file system almost exactly, with a few extensions; . was the directory seperator, ten-char case-preserving-but-insensitive filenames, $ was the system root, & was the user root (or possibly the other way around). From Basic, you would do: *NET *I AM DG ...to log on. From there, it was just another file system. -- +- David Given ---------------McQ-+ "We must go out and utterly crush every | Work: dg@tao-group.com | other worldview that does not believe in | Play: dgiven@iname.com | tolerance and free speech!" --- David Brin, +- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+ paraphrased ###### From: bjh21@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ben Harris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: 22 May 2000 20:51:12 GMT Organization: University of Cambridge, England Lines: 43 Message-ID: <8gc6k0$kg5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> NNTP-Posting-Host: ursa.cus.cam.ac.uk Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!server1.netnews.ja.net!pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk!bjh21 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:56917 In article <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1>, David Given wrote: >In article , > benc@krustbustr.benzone.org (Ben Clifford) writes: >> On 19 May 2000 13:06:28 GMT, Ben Harris wrote: >>>>It looks like there is some form of Econet support in Linux now, >>>>although I haven't looked at it in any detail. >>> >>>Unfortunately, it's not support for real Econet hardware, just the >>>Econet-over-IP hack that Acorn produced because real Econet was too slow. >> >> So what was that intended for use over? Ethernet? > >Yup. AUN, it was called. > >Real Econet hardware was, IIRC and I probably don't, a simple two- or >three-wire system; data, clock, and ground. Pfah. Standard cable was twin twisted-pair with a drain wire. Data and clock each ran over their own pair, driven by 75159s. > It required seperate >terminator boxes for each end, plus a clock box per network; nodes on the >network were numbered, not named, and were of the form NET.NODE. Both the >network and node numbers varied from 0 to 255, but there were a couple of >reserved ones for things like the file server and printer server. Not very reserved, just conventional. And in early versions of Econet, the node number was just a 16-bit number. I think splitting it happened in Econet V3. Oh, and 0 and 255 were reserved, like in IP. >The syntax usage followed Acorn's hierarchical file system almost exactly, >with a few extensions; . was the directory seperator, ten-char >case-preserving-but-insensitive filenames, $ was the system root, & was >the user root (or possibly the other way around). Actually, I think Econet was where the conventions of Acorn's hierarchical file systems started. I don't think the Systems had any local hierarchical file systems. -- Ben Harris Unix Support, University of Cambridge Computing Service. If I wanted to speak for the University, I'd be in ucam.comp-serv.announce. ###### From: dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:25:14 +0100 Organization: I do not speak for anyone but myself, and barely that. Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8gc6k0$kg5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.19.67.123 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: 959093308 IIX5YQT0T437BD413C uk26.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarq.com X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:56934 In article <8gc6k0$kg5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, bjh21@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ben Harris) writes: [...] >>Real Econet hardware was, IIRC and I probably don't, a simple two- or >>three-wire system; data, clock, and ground. > > Pfah. Standard cable was twin twisted-pair with a drain wire. Data and > clock each ran over their own pair, driven by 75159s. Hey, I was only 25% out. >>The syntax usage followed Acorn's hierarchical file system almost exactly, >>with a few extensions; . was the directory seperator, ten-char >>case-preserving-but-insensitive filenames, $ was the system root, & was >>the user root (or possibly the other way around). > > Actually, I think Econet was where the conventions of Acorn's hierarchical > file systems started. I don't think the Systems had any local hierarchical > file systems. Did they have any file systems, full stop? I only came to Econet proper with the Masters, which supported ADFS (hierarchical file system for floppes) natively. I did play with BBC B's with level 1 Econet a bit. Non-hierarchical networking with all storage on DFS floppy disks. The file server was written in Basic. It was, um, primitive. The only thing I knew about the System series micros in those days (these were some of the machines Acorn produced before the BBC) was that there were identifiers reserved for them in the Econet specification. Okay, for bonus points: has anyone even *heard* of the standard Sinclair networking system? The only thing I know about it was that it uses two-wire cabling with 3.5mm jack plugs. And that's it. -- +- David Given ---------------McQ-+ According to the latest official figures, | Work: dg@tao-group.com | 43% of all statistics are totally | Play: dgiven@iname.com | worthless. +- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+ ###### From: bjh21@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ben Harris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: 23 May 2000 14:56:28 GMT Organization: University of Cambridge, England Lines: 38 Message-ID: <8ge66s$qtg$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8gc6k0$kg5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: draco.cus.cam.ac.uk Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news.vas-net.net!server2.netnews.ja.net!pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk!bjh21 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:56920 Your message-ids are broken. Please fix them. In article , David Given wrote: >In article <8gc6k0$kg5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, > bjh21@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ben Harris) writes: >>>The syntax usage followed Acorn's hierarchical file system almost exactly, >>>with a few extensions; . was the directory seperator, ten-char >>>case-preserving-but-insensitive filenames, $ was the system root, & was >>>the user root (or possibly the other way around). >> >> Actually, I think Econet was where the conventions of Acorn's hierarchical >> file systems started. I don't think the Systems had any local hierarchical >> file systems. > >Did they have any file systems, full stop? Yes. They had much the same casette and disc filing systems as on the Beeb, but without the FS/OS distinction, so to switch from disc to casette you ran *COS, which replaced the DOS that had been running prviously. The same applied to NOS, but (at least on my machines) that required an explicit *GO, since it was in a separate ROM. >I only came to Econet proper with the Masters, which supported ADFS >(hierarchical file system for floppes) natively. I did play with BBC B's >with level 1 Econet a bit. Non-hierarchical networking with all storage on >DFS floppy disks. The file server was written in Basic. It was, um, >primitive. The only thing I knew about the System series micros in those >days (these were some of the machines Acorn produced before the BBC) was >that there were identifiers reserved for them in the Econet specification. The System file server (having rather more RAM to play with than a Beeb) was rather better; roughly equivalent to the Level 2 file server (which ran on the 6502 2nd processor). Still only ran off floppies, of course. -- Ben Harris Unix Support, University of Cambridge Computing Service. If I wanted to speak for the University, I'd be in ucam.comp-serv.announce. ###### From: Andrew Paul Cadley Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:09:21 +0100 Organization: University of East Anglia, Norwich, Norfolk, NR47TJ, UK Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8gc6k0$kg5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: cpca7.uea.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: cpca14.uea.ac.uk 959094562 20153 139.222.130.7 (23 May 2000 15:09:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@uea.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 May 2000 15:09:22 GMT In-Reply-To: Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!news.vas-net.net!server2.netnews.ja.net!news.uea.ac.uk!cpca7.uea.ac.uk!a962115 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:56930 On Tue, 23 May 2000, David Given wrote: > Okay, for bonus points: has anyone even *heard* of the standard Sinclair > networking system? The only thing I know about it was that it uses > two-wire cabling with 3.5mm jack plugs. And that's it. Yes. It was part of the Interface One (more well known as the interface used to connect the microdrives). I seem to recall you could have a maximum of 64 spectrums on the network, though I don't remember having seen any software developed for it at all. Actually I've a feeling the functionality was also available on the QL, though I may be utterly wrong about that. AndyC ###### From: pnt@cs.york.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: 24 May 2000 14:22:25 GMT Organization: The University of York, UK Lines: 20 Sender: pnt1@york.ac.uk Message-ID: <8ggoj1$vn$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> NNTP-Posting-Host: indy005.cs.york.ac.uk X-Trace: pump1.york.ac.uk 959178145 1015 144.32.40.69 (24 May 2000 14:22:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@york.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 May 2000 14:22:25 GMT User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980514 (UNIX) (IRIX/5.3 (IP22)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!gxn.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!news.york.ac.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:56965 David Given wrote: > Real Econet hardware was, IIRC and I probably don't, a simple two- or > three-wire system; data, clock, and ground. It required seperate > terminator boxes for each end, plus a clock box per network [...] > Speeds varied from a few hundred kB per second up, depending on the > hardware and what speed the clock was set to. This meant that unlike > most networking solutions, remote storage was actually faster than local > storage on 8-bit machines! IIRC correctly there is a minimum speed around 20K bits/second; the notional maximum was 250Kbs (bits, not bytes). Actually, you can squeeze it a little faster on short networks by using an asymmetric clock. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Support Group Dept. of Computer Science University of York ###### From: andyl@azaal.dircon.co.uk (Andy Leighton) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: 23 May 2000 20:58:49 GMT Organization: Andy Leighton Message-ID: References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8gc6k0$kg5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>

Reply-To: andyl@azaal.dircon.co.uk X-Server-Date: 23 May 2000 20:58:49 GMT X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.6.2 Linux) X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.47.7 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.32.19 Lines: 44 NNTP-Posting-Host: newsread3.dircon.co.uk X-Trace: reader.news.dircon.net 959194483 172 194.112.32.19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!peer1.news.dircon.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!reader.news.dircon.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57089 On Tue, 23 May 2000 16:09:21, Andrew Paul Cadley wrote: > > >On Tue, 23 May 2000, David Given wrote: > >> Okay, for bonus points: has anyone even *heard* of the standard Sinclair >> networking system? > >Yes. It was part of the Interface One (more well known as the interface >used to connect the microdrives). I seem to recall you could have a >maximum of 64 spectrums on the network, though I don't remember having >seen any software developed for it at all. Actually I've a feeling the >functionality was also available on the QL, though I may be utterly wrong >about that. Certainly the QL used the same network system, and could co-exist on the same network as the Speccies. There were 2 3.5mm jacks for the network, however I cannot remember whether you had to cable the QLs up as a chain or a ring. As you could have 64 computers (with a total of 100m of cabling) I doubt very much it was a ring. If there were more than 2 computers on the network, each QL had to be given a unique station number with the NET command. Once everything has been set up the network can be used just like any other i/o channel. It is possible to LOAD and SAVE programs over the network, but the whole thing is sensitive to doing the load before the save. Of course you can always just OPEN and CLOSE network channels and then use PRINT and INPUT on the channel. As a special case, you can use channel 0, which broadcasts to all computers on the network (but they have to be listening on that channel). As you have probably realised by now QDOS itself wasn't a very sophisticated network operating system. I am not sure whether the ICL OPDs used the QL-Networking system or something a little better. -- Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.dircon.co.uk "... January is your third most common month for madness" - _Sarah Canary_ ###### From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: 24 May 2000 22:39:04 +0100 Organization: P850 User Group Message-ID: <8ghi5o$17d@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8gc6k0$kg5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>

NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 959288322 nnrp-11:7562 NO-IDENT p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 26 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!p850ug1.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57028 Andy Leighton (andyl@azaal.dircon.co.uk) wrote: : Certainly the QL used the same network system, and could co-exist on the : same network as the Speccies. There were 2 3.5mm jacks for the network, : however I cannot remember whether you had to cable the QLs up as a chain : or a ring. As you could have 64 computers (with a total of 100m of : cabling) I doubt very much it was a ring. It _had_ to be a chain. The QL (and I guess the Spectrum+I/F1) used the switch contacts on the jack sockets (you know, the contacts that turn off the speaker in a pocket radio when you plug the earphone in) to control the termination resistor. Each machine had 2 intenral termination resistors, one connected to each socket. When you plugged in the network cable, it disconnected the resistor on the socket you plugged the cable into. So, by having an empty socket on the 2 'end' machines, you automatically got a termination resistor at each end of the network. Just where you needed them. I think that some versions of Apple Localtalk (or whatever it's called) did something similar with the termination resistors in the connector boxes, but I've not got any to hand to check. -tony ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: 25 May 2000 23:26:52 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 26 Message-ID: <6ud7ma723n.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8gc6k0$kg5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>

<8ghi5o$17d@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 959290012 967 10.0.3.2 (25 May 2000 21:26:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 May 2000 21:26:52 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57102 ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) writes: > Andy Leighton (andyl@azaal.dircon.co.uk) wrote: > : same network as the Speccies. There were 2 3.5mm jacks for the network, > : however I cannot remember whether you had to cable the QLs up as a chain > > It _had_ to be a chain. > > The QL (and I guess the Spectrum+I/F1) used the switch contacts on the > jack sockets (you know, the contacts that turn off the speaker in a > pocket radio when you plug the earphone in) to control the termination > resistor. > > I think that some versions of Apple Localtalk (or whatever it's called) > did something similar with the termination resistors in the connector > boxes, but I've not got any to hand to check. That is exactly what the localtalk boxes did, pluss contain the analogue stuff to convert an RS-232 into an breadcast network. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic Use a WIMP (Windows Icons Mouse Pulldowns) interface - or get one with a CLUE (Command Line User Environment)? ###### From: cs1cl@stoat.shef.ac.uk (C Lamb) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: 26 May 2000 09:21:26 GMT Organization: Sheffield University, UK Lines: 8 Message-ID: <8glfmm$go6$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8gc6k0$kg5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>

<8ghi5o$17d@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> <6ud7ma723n.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Reply-To: cs1cl@stoat.shef.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: stoat.shef.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!news.vas-net.net!server2.netnews.ja.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!news.shef.ac.uk!stoat!cs1cl Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57194 Neil Franklin (neil@franklin.ch.remove) wrote: : analogue stuff to convert an RS-232 into an breadcast network. I presume the conversion circuitry cost a lot of dough? C ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8ghi5o$17d@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> <6ud7ma723n.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8glfmm$go6$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> Organization: Daedalus Consulting X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Message-ID: <959348109.849120@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Cache-Post-Path: shelley.paradise.net.nz!unknown@203-96-144-16.cable.paradise.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 18 Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:35:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.152.26 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 959348127 203.96.152.26 (Sat, 27 May 2000 01:35:27 NZST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 01:35:27 NZST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!europa.netcrusader.net!209.113.65.250!korova.insync.net!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57220 In article <8glfmm$go6$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk>, C Lamb wrote: >Neil Franklin (neil@franklin.ch.remove) wrote: > >: analogue stuff to convert an RS-232 into an breadcast network. > >I presume the conversion circuitry cost a lot of dough? Nah, prety cheap. It was only sorta RS232 tho. Cheaper was the Farallon PhoneNet system that ran LocalTalk over unsheilded twisted pairs (basically phone wire). It was the bane of my life at a univeristy I worked for (as network manager) until a few years ago. But it did work surprisingly well -- in one case we, uh, borrowed a phone pair off the telephone company without telling them to get some level of network service to an isolated building. -- don ###### From: greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Organization: Rossum's Universal Robots Reply-To: greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk Message-ID: <3944495a.4490136@news.cableinet.co.uk> References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8ggoj1$vn$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 16:27:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.48.192.55 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cableinet.net X-Trace: news3.cableinet.net 959531241 213.48.192.55 (Sun, 28 May 2000 17:27:21 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:27:21 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!easynet-tele!easynet.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!news3.cableinet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57207 On 24 May 2000 14:22:25 GMT, pnt@cs.york.ac.uk sprachen: >IIRC correctly there is a minimum speed around 20K bits/second; the >notional maximum was 250Kbs (bits, not bytes). So you could fill the RAM in just over a second (they only had 32K RAM right? Not 64K paged like a Commodore / Atari?). It's amazing the amount of stuff you could do with that much memory. People used them for all sorts of real things, you could run businesses on one, the software we had at school did all sorts. Where does the 128MB RAM in a PC actually *go*???? What can you fill all those bytes with? It amazes me. Seriously, I know there's bloat, but it's astounding. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Shyness is nice, and shyness can stop you from doing all the things in life you'd like to" - - - - - - - - greenaum@yahoo.co.uk Call me morbid, call me pale - http://www.sam-x.freeuk.com/chest1.jpg ###### From: greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Organization: Rossum's Universal Robots Reply-To: greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk Message-ID: <39454964.4499749@news.cableinet.co.uk> References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8gc6k0$kg5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>

X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 37 Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 16:27:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.48.192.55 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cableinet.net X-Trace: news3.cableinet.net 959531245 213.48.192.55 (Sun, 28 May 2000 17:27:25 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:27:25 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!news3.cableinet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57203 On 23 May 2000 20:58:49 GMT, andyl@azaal.dircon.co.uk (Andy Leighton) sprachen: >however I cannot remember whether you had to cable the QLs up as a chain >or a ring. Never a ring! Well the Speccy network anyway, in the manual warns against it. I don't know why, actually, it would be interesting to know. Maybe because, if it's simply electrical parallel, it would be like a ring main in a house, and there'd be 2 routes for the data to bing down, which might cause problems, with them being different lengths. I have "An expert guide to the Spectrum" in the bog somewhere, I'll look up what the data rate is. >As you could have 64 computers (with a total of 100m of >cabling) I doubt very much it was a ring. Yeah I wonder if anyone actually connected more than 2 Spectrums or QLs together, ever. Hm this would be a nifty thing to do at one of the 8-bit computer fairs, you could write a game or something. >"... January is your third most common month for madness" - _Sarah Canary_ What is that about? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Shyness is nice, and shyness can stop you from doing all the things in life you'd like to" - - - - - - - - greenaum@yahoo.co.uk Call me morbid, call me pale - http://www.sam-x.freeuk.com/chest1.jpg ###### From: greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Organization: Rossum's Universal Robots Reply-To: greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk Message-ID: <39494979.4521723@news.cableinet.co.uk> References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8gc6k0$kg5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 33 Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 16:27:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.48.192.55 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cableinet.net X-Trace: news3.cableinet.net 959531267 213.48.192.55 (Sun, 28 May 2000 17:27:47 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:27:47 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news.ruhrgebiet.individual.net!newsfeed.ision.net!ision!diablo.theplanet.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!news3.cableinet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57201 On Tue, 23 May 2000 11:25:14 +0100, dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) sprachen: >Okay, for bonus points: has anyone even *heard* of the standard Sinclair >networking system? The only thing I know about it was that it uses >two-wire cabling with 3.5mm jack plugs. And that's it. Yep, that's about it. It's just a 1-bit port banged directly from the CPU. All Spectrums are wired in parallel, before a station sends, it will monitor the line to see if there's any activity. If there's a collide, uh I think the stations both back off and start again. It's all in software though, the network interface is like a couple of NAND gates on the ULA. There's up to 64 stations, peer-to-peer, and a broadcast option. About 1 game and no other software, used the network. It's a shame because the cable was so cheap, and Microdrives are actually pretty good, that more people didn't buy an IF1. You can probably put this down to the fast tape speed, 4 minutes for a 48K game to load from tape, compared to 30 or 40 minutes on an Atari or Commodore, who went on to sell lots of disk systems. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Shyness is nice, and shyness can stop you from doing all the things in life you'd like to" - - - - - - - - greenaum@yahoo.co.uk Call me morbid, call me pale - http://www.sam-x.freeuk.com/chest1.jpg ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: 28 May 2000 22:22:18 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 28 Message-ID: <6u1z2ma0hx.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8gc6k0$kg5$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>

<8ghi5o$17d@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> <6ud7ma723n.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8glfmm$go6$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 959545338 648 10.0.3.2 (28 May 2000 20:22:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 May 2000 20:22:18 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57262 cs1cl@stoat.shef.ac.uk (C Lamb) writes: > Neil Franklin (neil@franklin.ch.remove) wrote: > > : analogue stuff to convert an RS-232 into an breadcast network. > > I presume the conversion circuitry cost a lot of dough? Unlikely. I have never opened one (hmm, we have a pile of unused ones at work...). But I would assume there to not be much more than a few resistors, possbily a capacitor or two and perhaps a diode or transistor in there, plus the 2 termination resistors and the 2 switching sockets. And a bit of plastic around it all. I would assume that the cost of shipping it to the customer is a lot larger than actual production cost. And then there is the Apple logo on it, now that is an expensive component. :-) -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic Use a WIMP (Windows Icons Mouse Pulldowns) interface - or get one with a CLUE (Command Line User Environment)? ###### From: "S.C.Sprong" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Supersedes: <8grsut$1qghv$1@fu-berlin.de> Date: 28 May 2000 19:52:37 GMT Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8ggoj1$vn$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <3944495a.4490136@news.cableinet.co.uk> Reply-To: s.c.sprong@student.utwente.nl NNTP-Posting-Host: wit401307.student.utwente.nl (130.89.236.147) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 959543557 1917503 130.89.236.147 (16 [21098]) X-Superseded-By: "S.C.Sprong" Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!wit401307.student.utwente.NL!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57288 greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk wrote: >On 24 May 2000 14:22:25 GMT, pnt@cs.york.ac.uk sprachen: >Where does the 128MB RAM in a PC actually *go*???? What can you fill >all those bytes with? It amazes me. Seriously, I know there's bloat, >but it's astounding. 53 processes: 3 running, 50 sleeping CPU states: 2.3% user, 0.0% nice, 0.4% system, 0.4% interrupt, 96.9% idle Mem: 62M Active, 39M Inact, 12M Wired, 6092K Cache, 6480K Buf, 5248K Free Swap: 251M Total, 251M Free PID PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE TIME WCPU CPU COMMAND 354 2 0 16232K 14292K select 84:51 0.78% 0.78% XF86_SVGA 832 2 0 16368K 12996K select 0:34 0.00% 0.00% navigator-4.08 833 2 0 10100K 6056K select 0:00 0.00% 0.00% navigator-4.08 Mostly the merged buffer cache and Nepscape's page rendering. HTH, scsprong ###### From: Ariel Scolnicov Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: 30 May 2000 09:49:41 +0300 Organization: Compugen, Ltd. Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8ggoj1$vn$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <3944495a.4490136@news.cableinet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: bioserv.compugen.co.il Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: news.netvision.net.il 959669381 27998 194.90.227.153 (30 May 2000 06:49:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@netvision.net.il NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 May 2000 06:49:41 GMT User-Agent: Gnus/5.0802 (Gnus v5.8.2) XEmacs/20.4 (Emerald) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!news-feed.netvision.net.il!194.90.1.15.MISMATCH!news!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57328 greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk writes: [...] > Where does the 128MB RAM in a PC actually *go*???? What can you fill > all those bytes with? It amazes me. Seriously, I know there's bloat, > but it's astounding. C++ template instantiation? Done multiply, in shared libraries?? DISCLAIMER: I know nothing of linking C++. But it seems to me you'd need a pretty clever loader (and good standardisation) to avoid multiple instantiations for all those templates, in the presence of shared libraries. -- Ariel Scolnicov > ###### From: simotit@evitech.fi (Simo Tuominen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:52:20 GMT Organization: hardly any Lines: 8 Message-ID: <3934fa56.140275860@learnet.freenet.hut.fi> References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8ggoj1$vn$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <3944495a.4490136@news.cableinet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: aqua00.edu2.evitech.fi X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!news.algonet.se!algonet!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.bahnhof.se!news.defero.net!news.bbnetworks.net!learnet.freenet.hut.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57374 On Sun, 28 May 2000 16:27:21 GMT, greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk wrote: >Where does the 128MB RAM in a PC actually *go*???? What can you fill >all those bytes with? It amazes me. Seriously, I know there's bloat, >but it's astounding. Disk cache, bloat (as you said), sub-optimal implementations, multitasking, memory leaks... ###### From: nailed_barnacleSPAMFREE@hotmail.com (barnacle) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BBC / Domesday [ Re: Quotations] Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 17:06:01 GMT Organization: [posted via Easynet Ltd] Lines: 19 Message-ID: <8h3gth$1589$1@quince.news.easynet.net> References: <49bda5398da__fake__address@127.0.0.1> <8g3e8k$cqu$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7p5bg8.qib.ln@127.0.0.1> <8ggoj1$vn$1@pump1.york.ac.uk> <3944495a.4490136@news.cableinet.co.uk> <3934fa56.140275860@learnet.freenet.hut.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: nbarnes.easynet.co.uk X-Trace: quince.news.easynet.net 959792881 38153 194.154.98.206 (31 May 2000 17:08:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 May 2000 17:08:01 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!easynet-tele!easynet.net!quince.news.easynet.net!egbert Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:57372 In article <3934fa56.140275860@learnet.freenet.hut.fi>, simotit@evitech.fi (Simo Tuominen) wrote: >On Sun, 28 May 2000 16:27:21 GMT, greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk wrote: > >>Where does the 128MB RAM in a PC actually *go*???? What can you fill >>all those bytes with? It amazes me. Seriously, I know there's bloat, >>but it's astounding. > >Disk cache, bloat (as you said), sub-optimal implementations, >multitasking, memory leaks... Cheer up - I just lost 64M *literally* out of the socket...damned if I know how it got out but it was definately not attached any more. Maybe thermal creep but the machine tends to run 24/7 (except for those obligatory 'microsoft moments') -- barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk