Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: light bulbs for DEC front panels X-Disclaimer: Everything I write is false. Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 18 Apr 2000 16:39:21 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 23 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 18 Apr 2000 17:36:06 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.sgi.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54420 Does anyone have information on light bulbs for DEC front panels circa 1968, in particular for a KA10 panel? The bulbs in question have two metal pins. Some bear the legend "OL-1", and others have two rows of info, "PL10161" on above "1209169". There's temporarily a photo of one, next to a US penny for scale, at http://www.36bit.org/dec/bulb.jpg Would these be the same bulbs used on the PDP-8, PDP-8/I, or PDP-8/e? I'd like to get a manufacturer and part number of a currently available replacement. Or a source of old stock. I've been told that there were also plug-compatible LED lamps in red and green. These obviously must have contained a series current limiting resistor. Any info? Thanks! Eric [If you send a private reply, please demangle my email address in the obvious way.] ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Date: 20 Apr 00 17:34:25 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: <903.145T1295T10544648@sky.bus.com> References: <8dnm2u$ru4$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <8dnpeg$7vg$2@null.agames.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-600.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54492 In article <8dnpeg$7vg$2@null.agames.com> albaugh@agames.com (Mike Albaugh) writes: > All of which reminds me of the _stupidest_ User Inteface >I ran into, before bit-mapped screens became popular. A certain >ROM-emulator had momentary-contact buttons, with lamps in them, >to set the value of the selectd location. When (not if) the bulb >burned out, you had _no_ idea how to set a given bit to a given >value. And of course, the bulbs were special and had to be >back-ordered from one of the moons of Saturn... :-) I wish I had the front panel from a Univac 9400. Four rows of illuminated momentary-contact buttons that let you set or clear any bit in any register (each with an 8-position knob and roller legends so each row could handle a number of things). And the lamps were NEON! Beautiful... -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### Message-ID: <38FCD218.224193D1@trailing-edge.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:22:32 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.0 DEC 3000 Model 300L) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: reader2.news.uu.net 956107353 17310 63.73.218.130 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!portc.blue.aol.com!europa.netcrusader.net!63.208.208.143!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!spool1.news.uu.net!spool0.news.uu.net!reader2.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54393 Eric Smith wrote: > > Does anyone have information on light bulbs for DEC front panels > circa 1968, in particular for a KA10 panel? >... > I've been told that there were also plug-compatible LED lamps in red and > green. These obviously must have contained a series current limiting > resistor. Any info? If they're anything like the -8 front panels, there is also a "warming" current through the bulb. The aftermarket LED "upgrades" either had you snip the resistors that kept the prelight current flowing on the front panel drivers, or (more classy) they had divider networks in addition to current limiting to make sure the warming current didn't appreciably light the LED. It was about three years ago I posted an analysis of the divider method to alt.sys.pdp8. I'd be glad to dredge up those calculations here if there is any interest. The divider method is a little more complicated to solder up, but it's easier to go back to real light bulbs if/when you decide to go back to the "completely original" look. Tim. ###### From: skywriter@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 03:11:45 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 39 Message-ID: <8dj856$8b8$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.126.162.238 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Apr 19 03:11:45 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.7C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.5 IP20) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x22.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 216.126.162.238 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDskywriter Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54371 Heh, I used to test, and repair, those damn panels in manufacturing. I think they were 6 volt lamps... but I remember them as white... They sure were a pain. In article , Eric Smith wrote: > Does anyone have information on light bulbs for DEC front panels > circa 1968, in particular for a KA10 panel? > > The bulbs in question have two metal pins. Some bear the legend > "OL-1", and others have two rows of info, "PL10161" on above "1209169". > > There's temporarily a photo of one, next to a US penny for scale, at > http://www.36bit.org/dec/bulb.jpg > > Would these be the same bulbs used on the PDP-8, PDP-8/I, or PDP-8/e? > > I'd like to get a manufacturer and part number of a currently available > replacement. Or a source of old stock. > > I've been told that there were also plug-compatible LED lamps in red and > green. These obviously must have contained a series current limiting > resistor. Any info? > > Thanks! > Eric > > [If you send a private reply, please demangle my email address in the > obvious way.] > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers From: Terry Kennedy Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels X-Complaints-To: Email abuse@spc.edu if this posting is inappropriate User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (BSD/OS/4.1 (i386)) NNTP-Posting-Host: gate.tmk.com Organization: St. Peter's College, US Message-ID: References: X-Trace: spcuna.spc.edu 956130541 22347 terry [204.141.35.61] Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 07:49:01 GMT Lines: 9 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!news.new-york.net!news.spc.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54376 In comp.sys.dec Eric Smith wrote: > The bulbs in question have two metal pins. Some bear the legend > "OL-1", and others have two rows of info, "PL10161" on above "1209169". Lucky you - it's still an available part from 800-DIGITAL. P/N 12-09169-00 is a "LAMP; 15V @ .040AMP MAX; .075". It's $2.00 with a 1 day lead time. Terry Kennedy http://www.tmk.com terry@tmk.com Jersey City, NJ USA ###### From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Date: 19 Apr 2000 08:53:40 GMT Organization: Rijksuniversiteit Groningen, Kapteyn Instituut Lines: 11 Message-ID: <8djs6k$p0u$2@info.service.rug.nl> References: Reply-To: helbig@astro.rug.nl NNTP-Posting-Host: gladia.astro.rug.nl X-Trace: info.service.rug.nl 956134420 25630 129.125.6.17 (19 Apr 2000 08:53:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@rug.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Apr 2000 08:53:40 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed1.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!surfnet.nl!rug.nl!astro.rug.nl!HELBIG Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54411 In article , Terry Kennedy writes: > In comp.sys.dec Eric Smith wrote: > > The bulbs in question have two metal pins. Some bear the legend > > "OL-1", and others have two rows of info, "PL10161" on above "1209169". > > Lucky you - it's still an available part from 800-DIGITAL. P/N 12-09169-00 > is a "LAMP; 15V @ .040AMP MAX; .075". It's $2.00 with a 1 day lead time. Wow! ###### Message-ID: <38FE609E.89521B0E@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels References: <38FCD218.224193D1@trailing-edge.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 43 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:43:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.15.120.32 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 956151797 63.15.120.32 (Wed, 19 Apr 2000 06:43:17 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 06:43:17 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54383 Tim Shoppa wrote: > Eric Smith wrote: > > > > Does anyone have information on light bulbs for DEC front panels > > circa 1968, in particular for a KA10 panel? > >... > > I've been told that there were also plug-compatible LED lamps in red and > > green. These obviously must have contained a series current limiting > > resistor. Any info? > > If they're anything like the -8 front panels, there is also a "warming" > current through the bulb. The aftermarket LED "upgrades" either had you > snip the resistors that kept the prelight current flowing on the front > panel drivers, or (more classy) they had divider networks in addition > to current limiting to make sure the warming current didn't appreciably > light the LED. > > It was about three years ago I posted an analysis of the divider method > to alt.sys.pdp8. I'd be glad to dredge up those calculations here if > there is any interest. The divider method is a little more complicated > to solder up, but it's easier to go back to real light bulbs if/when you > decide to go back to the "completely original" look. > > Tim. I'm looking at an 8/L front panel in my collection which has about half of the lamps replaced with leds. All they appear to have done is put a 180 ohm 1/4 watt resister in series with the led by cutting a trace adjacent to the led and replacing it with the resistor. The lamps have the same form factor as the one in the picture but the plastic "base" is gray rather than black and there is no nomenclature (part no.) that I can see anywhere on it. Maybe (likely) they came in a number of voltages. Regards, Chris AN GETT$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ ###### From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Date: 19 Apr 2000 15:14:44 GMT Organization: Personal Opinions Only Lines: 29 Distribution: world Message-ID: <8dkih4$ie4$1@sniff.shr.dec.com> References: <38FCD218.224193D1@trailing-edge.com> <38FE609E.89521B0E@earthlink.net> Reply-To: lederman@eisner.decus.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.org NNTP-Posting-Host: prfgrp.zko.dec.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: mxrn 6.18-32 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsxfer.interpacket.net!news.interpacket.net!uunet!lax.uu.net!dfw.uu.net!mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com!pa.dec.com!sniff.shr.dec.com!dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com!lederman Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54390 Many years ago, before I worked for Digital/Compaq, I worked for ITT World Communications in New York. It was standard procedure there to replace all of the incandescent lamps in the DEC system consoles with LEDs. We did this on PDP-15s and I think PDP-9s, and on many of the peripherals (RK09 disks, DECtape, etc.). I believe our PDP-11s all had LEDs already (PDP-11/70 and newer systems). We did replace the incandescent lamps in RK05 and RP06 disk drives with LEDs. The 'keep alive' resistors had to be removed from the RP06 drives, but not from the RK05 or other equipment. I have a vague recollection that the manufactuer was called something like DPD or DPS, and they're in California, and the last time I saw an advertisement from them was fairly recent. I can try to find a reference, but a web search would probably find you a variety of suppliers fairly quickly. -- B. Z. Lederman Personal Opinions Only Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing list of any kind. Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post. ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels References: X-Disclaimer: Everything I write is false. Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 19 Apr 2000 11:17:33 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 26 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 19 Apr 2000 12:14:40 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54471 Terry Kennedy writes: > Lucky you - it's still an available part from 800-DIGITAL. P/N 12-09169-00 > is a "LAMP; 15V @ .040AMP MAX; .075". It's $2.00 with a 1 day lead time. Thanks! Without the dash after the 12, I didn't realize that the number marked on the lamp was a DEC part number. Based on those specs, it appears that an Oshino OL-6003BP should be a suitable replacement. It's rated about .037A rather than 0.40, but it otherwise matches, including the .075 MSCP. It's rated for 50,000 hours. They're available in the US from Wamco. http://www.oshino.com/ http://www.wamcoinc.com/ Next question: anyone know what drive circuit DEC used? Or at least what voltage they used for the warming current? Since I only have the front panel and not the rest of the computer (pardon me while I break down and cry for a moment...), I need to build my own circuit to drive it. Eventually I plan to have a suitable blue metal box made to bolt the panel onto, and inside put a KA10 emulator. Of course, since the light boards in the front panel don't have any drive electronics, I could just plug in T-1 3/4 LEDs, but I'd prefer to use lamps for some small semblance of authenticity. ###### From: "George R. Gonzalez" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:22:45 -0500 Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus Lines: 13 Message-ID: <8dnm2u$ru4$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: grg2.micro.umn.edu X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.crhc.uiuc.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!news1.tc.umn.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54499 For the best authenticity, you should spring for the new WHITE LED's, or at least the yellow ones. You may want to experiment with various parallel resistors to diim the idling current below the LED's threshold voltage. This is of cours ein addition to a series resistor to limit the current. I never thought the PDP-8/F's with the RED LED's looked quite right. ###### From: albaugh@agames.com (Mike Albaugh) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Followup-To: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Date: 20 Apr 2000 20:31:12 GMT Organization: Atari Games Corporation Lines: 28 Message-ID: <8dnpeg$7vg$2@null.agames.com> References: <8dnm2u$ru4$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: java.agames.com X-Trace: null.agames.com 956262672 8176 192.245.83.156 (20 Apr 2000 20:31:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@agames.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Apr 2000 20:31:12 GMT X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!newshub1-work.home.com!null!albaugh Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54500 George R. Gonzalez (grg@umn.edu) wrote: : For the best authenticity, you should spring for the new WHITE LED's, I don't think they are the right shade of PINK under light duty-cycling :-) : or at least the yellow ones. : You may want to experiment with various parallel resistors : to diim the idling current below the LED's threshold voltage. : This is of cours ein addition to a series resistor to limit the current. If he is really going to use LEDS, then he doesn't need the idling current. If he is really going to build his own interface, and use bulbs, then he can duty-cycle the drive to the bulbs to keep them "warm", rather than use an extra resistor. All of which reminds me of the _stupidest_ User Inteface I ran into, before bit-mapped screens became popular. A certain ROM-emulator had momentary-contact buttons, with lamps in them, to set the value of the selectd location. When (not if) the bulb burned out, you had _no_ idea how to set a given bit to a given value. And of course, the bulbs were special and had to be back-ordered from one of the moons of Saturn... :-) Mike | albaugh@agames.com, speaking only for myself ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels References: <8dnm2u$ru4$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> From: Ric Werme X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #119 Lines: 22 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:45:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.218.4.112 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.ne.mediaone.net 956267127 24.218.4.112 (Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:45:27 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:45:27 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.8.70!typhoon.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54536 "George R. Gonzalez" writes: >For the best authenticity, you should spring for the new WHITE LED's, >or at least the yellow ones. >I never thought the PDP-8/F's with the RED LED's looked quite right. Did you ever wonder why? Try comparing a LED at 50% duty cycle with an incandescent at 50% duty cycle. The incandescent will have dimmed much more than the LED. In fact, the LED will hardly appear to have dimmed at all. Our eyes can register a huge range of light intensity and a 50% decline is not all that noticeable. Perhaps one could come up with a better circuit to emulate the right intensity. Maybe a RC low pass filter/integrator so you'd need at least a 10-20% duty cycle to get any light at all. Maybe another R to bleed the cap if there's no back current through the driver. ROM table lookup and scan the LED array ala most multi digit LED displays? -- Ric Werme | werme@nospam.mediaone.net http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme | ^^^^^^^ delete ###### From: Art Rice Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Reply-To: arice@ue.itug.org Message-ID: References: <8dnm2u$ru4$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <8dnpeg$7vg$2@null.agames.com> <903.145T1295T10544648@sky.bus.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 29 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:39:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.94.112.2 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.tampabay.rr.com 956327977 24.94.112.2 (Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:39:37 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:39:37 EDT Organization: RoadRunner - TampaBay Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone-southeast.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-southeast.rr.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!typhoon.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54537 On 20 Apr 00 17:34:25 -0800, "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >In article <8dnpeg$7vg$2@null.agames.com> albaugh@agames.com >(Mike Albaugh) writes: > >> All of which reminds me of the _stupidest_ User Inteface >>I ran into, before bit-mapped screens became popular. A certain >>ROM-emulator had momentary-contact buttons, with lamps in them, >>to set the value of the selectd location. When (not if) the bulb >>burned out, you had _no_ idea how to set a given bit to a given >>value. And of course, the bulbs were special and had to be >>back-ordered from one of the moons of Saturn... :-) > >I wish I had the front panel from a Univac 9400. Four rows >of illuminated momentary-contact buttons that let you set or >clear any bit in any register (each with an 8-position knob >and roller legends so each row could handle a number of things). >And the lamps were NEON! Beautiful... Think the old Univac 494 also had those neon lights, as did the control panel for the magnetic drums. -- Art Rice *# Special Data Processing Corporation -------------------------------------- All opinions expressed are mine and do not reflect the views of my employer. ###### Message-ID: <39007D28.82D47616@jetnet.ab.ca> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:09:12 -0600 From: Ben Franchuk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels References: <8dnm2u$ru4$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <8dnpeg$7vg$2@null.agames.com> <903.145T1295T10544648@sky.bus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.153.6.61 X-Trace: 21 Apr 2000 08:43:08 -0700, 207.153.6.61 Organization: OA Internet Lines: 15 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.oanet.com!207.153.6.61 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54482 Art Rice wrote: > Think the old Univac 494 also had those neon lights, as did the > control panel for the magnetic drums. I also like the old but expensive calculators with the nixie tube displays. While my $5.00 calculator can do a whole lot more, it does not have the nice feel of the nice machines. -- "We do not inherit our time on this planet from our parents... We borrow it from our children." The Lagging edge of technology: http://www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/woodelf/index.html ###### From: Art Rice Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Reply-To: arice@ue.itug.org Message-ID: References: <8dnm2u$ru4$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <8dnpeg$7vg$2@null.agames.com> <903.145T1295T10544648@sky.bus.com> <39007D28.82D47616@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 16:14:04 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.94.112.2 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.tampabay.rr.com 956333644 24.94.112.2 (Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:14:04 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:14:04 EDT Organization: RoadRunner - TampaBay Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone-southeast.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-southeast.rr.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!typhoon.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54539 On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:09:12 -0600, Ben Franchuk wrote: >Art Rice wrote: > >> Think the old Univac 494 also had those neon lights, as did the >> control panel for the magnetic drums. > >I also like the old but expensive calculators with the >nixie tube displays. While my $5.00 calculator can do a >whole lot more, it does not have the nice feel of the >nice machines. > Seems that at one of the Loran stations I was at we had a 24 hour clock (counter) made by General Radio (I think) mounted at the top of a stack of HP Cesium Oscillators that had large Nixie tubes. So much warmer than the current "cold" LED displays. Matter of fact, I think the HP frequency counters had some nice warm nixie displays also. -- Art Rice *# Special Data Processing Corporation -------------------------------------- All opinions expressed are mine and do not reflect the views of my employer. ###### Message-ID: <3900550A.7DF2DCC9@trailing-edge.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 13:18:02 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.0 DEC 3000 Model 300L) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels References: <8dnm2u$ru4$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <8dnpeg$7vg$2@null.agames.com> <903.145T1295T10544648@sky.bus.com> <39007D28.82D47616@jetnet.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: reader1.news.uu.net 956337483 27173 63.73.218.130 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!spool0.news.uu.net!reader1.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54510 Art Rice wrote: > > On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:09:12 -0600, Ben Franchuk > wrote: > > >Art Rice wrote: > > > >> Think the old Univac 494 also had those neon lights, as did the > >> control panel for the magnetic drums. > > > >I also like the old but expensive calculators with the > >nixie tube displays. While my $5.00 calculator can do a > >whole lot more, it does not have the nice feel of the > >nice machines. > > > > Seems that at one of the Loran stations I was at we had a 24 hour > clock (counter) made by General Radio (I think) mounted at the top of > a stack of HP Cesium Oscillators that had large Nixie tubes. So much > warmer than the current "cold" LED displays. Matter of fact, I think > the HP frequency counters had some nice warm nixie displays also. Even better than the Nixie displays, IMHO, are the old "Decatron" counter/display tubes. There's neon segments for 0-9, and the displays themselves do the counting in response to pulses in (and they generate carry out). Tim. ###### Message-ID: <39017255.93F12729@earthlink.net> From: jchausler X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels References: <8dnm2u$ru4$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <8dnpeg$7vg$2@null.agames.com> <903.145T1295T10544648@sky.bus.com> <39007D28.82D47616@jetnet.ab.ca> <3900550A.7DF2DCC9@trailing-edge.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 47 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:36:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.15.120.103 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 956352966 63.15.120.103 (Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:36:06 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:36:06 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!portc.blue.aol.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54564 Tim Shoppa wrote: > Art Rice wrote: > > > > On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:09:12 -0600, Ben Franchuk > > wrote: > > > > >Art Rice wrote: > > > > > >> Think the old Univac 494 also had those neon lights, as did the > > >> control panel for the magnetic drums. I believe the Univac 1108 had neons as well in combination push-button lights. Trouble was when built, they were mounted to the panel and then a buss bar was soldered to the back of them to provide power. To replace them you had to cut out a section of the buss bar, then replace the button/light unit, then recreate the buss bar with jumper wires. After a while, the back of the "front panel" looked ugly. My favorite button/lamp combination was also Univac but in this case the military Univac Athena. It's button/lamps were incandescent cartridge units which you could pull out and easily replace. The "push" surface of the button was larger than those on the 1108 as well which made for easier entry of data with the panel. This probably says something about military vs civilian cost benefit ratios. > Even better than the Nixie displays, IMHO, are the old "Decatron" > counter/display tubes. There's neon segments for 0-9, and the displays > themselves do the counting in response to pulses in (and they generate > carry out). Somewhere I still have some Decatrons. They were used by a former employer of mine (before I was there) for addressing a multidrop "digital" communications system (railroad signalling telemetry), designed, I believe, in the mid to late 50's. I think each field station would count along with the master station so it would know when its address had come up on the polling cycle. Chris AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPE $$ ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels References: <8dnm2u$ru4$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <8dnpeg$7vg$2@null.agames.com> <903.145T1295T10544648@sky.bus.com> From: Ric Werme X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #119 Lines: 31 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 14:06:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.218.4.112 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.ne.mediaone.net 956412375 24.218.4.112 (Sat, 22 Apr 2000 10:06:15 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 10:06:15 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.8.70!typhoon.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54608 Art Rice writes: >On 20 Apr 00 17:34:25 -0800, "Charlie Gibbs" >wrote: >>In article <8dnpeg$7vg$2@null.agames.com> albaugh@agames.com >>(Mike Albaugh) writes: >> >>> All of which reminds me of the _stupidest_ User Inteface >>>I ran into, before bit-mapped screens became popular. A certain >>>ROM-emulator had momentary-contact buttons, with lamps in them, >>>to set the value of the selectd location. When (not if) the bulb >>>burned out, you had _no_ idea how to set a given bit to a given >>>value. And of course, the bulbs were special and had to be >>>back-ordered from one of the moons of Saturn... :-) >> >>I wish I had the front panel from a Univac 9400. Four rows >>of illuminated momentary-contact buttons that let you set or >>clear any bit in any register (each with an 8-position knob >>and roller legends so each row could handle a number of things). >>And the lamps were NEON! Beautiful... >Think the old Univac 494 also had those neon lights, as did the >control panel for the magnetic drums. The Packard Bell 250 used blue-green electroluminescent lights. And magneto-restrictive memory. Sort of like a mercury delay line only different. -- Ric Werme | werme@nospam.mediaone.net http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme | ^^^^^^^ delete ###### From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 11:02:29 -0400 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 22 Message-ID: <3901BF05.EE2DDDE9@prescienttech.com> References: <8dnm2u$ru4$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <8dnpeg$7vg$2@null.agames.com> <903.145T1295T10544648@sky.bus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UP3kM1grX0zFXHS+4VnijGHqH6mxMq1m+YrqjsgsAuQ= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Apr 2000 15:02:33 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54589 Ric Werme wrote: > > The Packard Bell 250 used blue-green electroluminescent lights. One Volt AC for the filament and 50 VDC for the plate and a grid to control the output. > And magneto-restrictive memory. Sort of like a mercury delay > line only different. It's a long piece of Nickel-steel wire, actually. There are three lengths, one is the "long" line which holds 256 (24-bit) words, another is a "short" line holding 16 words, and registers which hold one word. -- +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com +---------------------+ | http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels References: <903.145T1295T10544648@sky.bus.com> <39007D28.82D47616@jetnet.ab.ca> Organization: Chez Inwap From: inwap@best.com (Joe Smith) Date: 22 Apr 2000 18:22:40 GMT Lines: 31 Message-ID: <3901edf0$0$209@nntp1.ba.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell3.ba.best.com X-Trace: nntp1.ba.best.com 956427760 209 inwap@206.184.139.134 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.best.com!news3.best.com!nntp1.ba.best.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54568 In article <39007D28.82D47616@jetnet.ab.ca>, Ben Franchuk wrote: >Art Rice wrote: > >> Think the old Univac 494 also had those neon lights, as did the >> control panel for the magnetic drums. > >I also like the old but expensive calculators with the >nixie tube displays. While my $5.00 calculator can do a >whole lot more, it does not have the nice feel of the >nice machines. Nixie tubes had a neat feature. The least significant digit was a bit analog. For instance: a frequency meter with a Nixie tube display is connected to an oscillator that is slowly drifting. The display reads either "17.4" or "17.5" kilohertz, and flickers rapidly back and forth between those to digitial readings. But the duty cycle varies. The brightness of the "5" digit starts low, and as it gets brighter, the "4" digit gets dimmer. Calling out the display to your lab partner, you could say seventeen point four seventeen point four and a quarter seventeen point four and a half seventeen point four and three quarters seventeen point five -Joe -- See http://www.inwap.com/ for PDP-10 and "ReBoot" pages. ###### From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Followup-To: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Date: 22 Apr 2000 21:36:23 +0100 Organization: P850 User Group Message-ID: <8dt2g7$n3@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> References: <3901BF05.EE2DDDE9@prescienttech.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 956437477 nnrp-01:12125 NO-IDENT p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!p850ug1.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54620 Carl R. Friend (carl.friend@prescienttech.com) wrote: : Ric Werme wrote: : > : > The Packard Bell 250 used blue-green electroluminescent lights. : One Volt AC for the filament and 50 VDC for the plate and a grid : to control the output. Probaby what we call a DM160 in the UK -- a subminiature indicator valve that was used as a logic level indicator on a number of 1960's-ish computer and peripherals. The needed a change in grid voltage of about 3V to turn them on/off, so they interface easily to most forms of transistorised logic. According to my handy book of valve (tube) equivalents, a DM160 is also a 6977, a CV5412 and a CV6094 -tony ###### From: bjj@bjj.arl.psu.edu Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Date: Saturday, 22 APR 2000 21:04 EDT Organization: Bryan's VAX/VMS System Lines: 16 Message-ID: <8dtj3n$fse@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: bjj.arl.psu.edu X-Authinfo-User: bjj3@psu.edu X-Newsreader: VMS TPU/News Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54622 In article , Eric Smith writes: >Since I only have the front panel and not the rest of the computer >(pardon me while I break down and cry for a moment...), I need to build >my own circuit to drive it. Eventually I plan to have a suitable blue >metal box made to bolt the panel onto, and inside put a KA10 emulator. > >Of course, since the light boards in the front panel don't have any >drive electronics, I could just plug in T-1 3/4 LEDs, but I'd prefer to >use lamps for some small semblance of authenticity. For my KA10, I used to take regular LEDs, cut the leads short, solder a 1/4W resister to each lead, and plug it in as an exact replacement for the original bulb (except of course that red just didn't look as nice as the original). Never could get Digital field service to replace with LEDs anything but the bulbs they needed at the time. ###### From: "The Bakers" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers References: <8dtj3n$fse@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Lines: 25 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 01:51:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.240.210 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 956454666 12.79.240.210 (Sun, 23 Apr 2000 01:51:06 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 01:51:06 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.19!wnmasters2!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54626 Whatever happened to the PSU HCL/ECL PDP-10 ? Did it end up at Salvage ? Is it still in the basement of EEW ? ======= wrote in message news:8dtj3n$fse@r02n01.cac.psu.edu... > In article , > Eric Smith writes: > >Since I only have the front panel and not the rest of the computer > >(pardon me while I break down and cry for a moment...), I need to build > >my own circuit to drive it. Eventually I plan to have a suitable blue > >metal box made to bolt the panel onto, and inside put a KA10 emulator. > > > >Of course, since the light boards in the front panel don't have any > >drive electronics, I could just plug in T-1 3/4 LEDs, but I'd prefer to > >use lamps for some small semblance of authenticity. > > For my KA10, I used to take regular LEDs, cut the leads short, solder > a 1/4W resister to each lead, and plug it in as an exact replacement > for the original bulb (except of course that red just didn't look as nice > as the original). Never could get Digital field service to replace > with LEDs anything but the bulbs they needed at the time. ###### Message-ID: <39025B02.7A199BA6@jetnet.ab.ca> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 20:08:02 -0600 From: Ben Franchuk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels References: <8dtj3n$fse@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.153.6.51 X-Trace: 22 Apr 2000 18:41:50 -0700, 207.153.6.51 Organization: OA Internet Lines: 30 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.oanet.com!207.153.6.51 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54618 bjj@bjj.arl.psu.edu wrote: > > In article , > Eric Smith writes: > >Since I only have the front panel and not the rest of the computer > >(pardon me while I break down and cry for a moment...), I need to build > >my own circuit to drive it. Eventually I plan to have a suitable blue > >metal box made to bolt the panel onto, and inside put a KA10 emulator. > > > >Of course, since the light boards in the front panel don't have any > >drive electronics, I could just plug in T-1 3/4 LEDs, but I'd prefer to > >use lamps for some small semblance of authenticity. > > For my KA10, I used to take regular LEDs, cut the leads short, solder > a 1/4W resister to each lead, and plug it in as an exact replacement > for the original bulb (except of course that red just didn't look as nice > as the original). Never could get Digital field service to replace > with LEDs anything but the bulbs they needed at the time. Looking a parts catalog to see if they still made the the tiny incandescent bulbs, I could not find any,or neon bulbs even, but for a good chunk of money $3.00? you can a nice blue LED or a "Bright-White" led for $5.00? -- "We do not inherit our time on this planet from our parents... We borrow it from our children." The Lagging edge of technology: http://www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/woodelf/index.html ###### Message-ID: <39025E73.A421B816@jetnet.ab.ca> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 20:22:43 -0600 From: Ben Franchuk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels References: <8dtj3n$fse@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <39025B02.7A199BA6@jetnet.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.153.6.51 X-Trace: 22 Apr 2000 18:56:31 -0700, 207.153.6.51 Organization: OA Internet Lines: 28 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.oanet.com!207.153.6.51 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54617 bjj@bjj.arl.psu.edu wrote: > > In article , > Eric Smith writes: > >Since I only have the front panel and not the rest of the computer > >(pardon me while I break down and cry for a moment...), I need to build > >my own circuit to drive it. Eventually I plan to have a suitable blue > >metal box made to bolt the panel onto, and inside put a KA10 emulator. > > > >Of course, since the light boards in the front panel don't have any > >drive electronics, I could just plug in T-1 3/4 LEDs, but I'd prefer to > >use lamps for some small semblance of authenticity. > > For my KA10, I used to take regular LEDs, cut the leads short, solder > a 1/4W resister to each lead, and plug it in as an exact replacement > for the original bulb (except of course that red just didn't look as nice > as the original). Never could get Digital field service to replace > with LEDs anything but the bulbs they needed at the time. I knew I saw some bulbs somewhere. About $.33 each. http://www.jameco.com/cfm/detail.cfm?sub_class_code=2G1&name=LEDs%20and%20Lamps ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Date: 24 Apr 2000 12:38:47 -0400 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 27 Message-ID: <8e1tan$ne2$1@panix.com> References: <903.145T1295T10544648@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 956594328 22317 166.84.0.226 (24 Apr 2000 16:38:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Apr 2000 16:38:48 GMT X-Newsposter: trn 4.0-test55 (26 Feb 97) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!diablo.theplanet.net!londen1-snf1.gtei.net!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54683 >>Think the old Univac 494 also had those neon lights, as did the >>control panel for the magnetic drums. Ah, I was born in 1960 thus my affection for neon displays. That was the look of *SPACE AGE PROGRESS*. >The Packard Bell 250 used blue-green electroluminescent lights. Perhaps neon with blue-green phosphor? Or fluorescent displays? (obvious once you spot the heater wires). All the electro-luminescent I've seen were large and terribly dim: good for back lighting and nite-lights only. >And magneto-restrictive memory. Sort of like a mercury delay >line only different. Geez - I remember my disappointment when pulling apart an Olivetti Programma 101 (early programmable calculator, the size of a typewriter). I wanted CORE and all I found was a metal box with a coil of wire. Definitely a delay line. How can I tell if it's magneto-restrictive or what technology? As to strange memory, I found a new in the box bubble memory module! -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide ###### From: "George R. Gonzalez" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:41:30 -0500 Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus Lines: 20 Message-ID: <8e1u4h$o4q$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> References: <903.145T1295T10544648@sky.bus.com> <39007D28.82D47616@jetnet.ab.ca> <3901edf0$0$209@nntp1.ba.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: grg2.micro.umn.edu X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!newsfeed.rhein-neckar.de!news.rhein-neckar.de!news-kar1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!news1.tc.umn.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54667 Joe Smith wrote in message <3901edf0$0$209@nntp1.ba.best.com>... >Nixie tubes had a neat feature. The least significant digit was a bit >analog. Well, that's not a Nixie phenomenon, it happens with any counter where the LSD is displayed. Therer's always a +0 -1 count error due to the time window not being in sync with the input signal. You will get that flicker effect as the signal crosses over the range of the LSD. You can look at this as a "bug" or as you cleverly interpreted it, a "feature". ###### From: Art Rice Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Reply-To: arice@ue.itug.org Message-ID: <8bv8gsk3mkbm0ob1ptp3bujpub0q3tt0d6@4ax.com> References: <903.145T1295T10544648@sky.bus.com> <8e1tan$ne2$1@panix.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 36 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:03:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.94.112.2 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.tampabay.rr.com 956595788 24.94.112.2 (Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:03:08 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:03:08 EDT Organization: RoadRunner - TampaBay Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone-southeast.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-southeast.rr.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!typhoon.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54681 On 24 Apr 2000 12:38:47 -0400, jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) wrote: >>>Think the old Univac 494 also had those neon lights, as did the >>>control panel for the magnetic drums. > >Ah, I was born in 1960 thus my affection for neon displays. >That was the look of *SPACE AGE PROGRESS*. Interesting, since the 494 I worked on was at NASA Communications. That was the heart of the Message Switching System. (low speed and high speed teletype traffic.) > >>The Packard Bell 250 used blue-green electroluminescent lights. > >Perhaps neon with blue-green phosphor? >Or fluorescent displays? (obvious once you spot the heater wires). >All the electro-luminescent I've seen were large and terribly dim: >good for back lighting and nite-lights only. > >>And magneto-restrictive memory. Sort of like a mercury delay >>line only different. > >Geez - I remember my disappointment when pulling apart an >Olivetti Programma 101 (early programmable calculator, >the size of a typewriter). I wanted CORE and all I found was a >metal box with a coil of wire. Definitely a delay line. >How can I tell if it's magneto-restrictive or what technology? > >As to strange memory, I found a new in the box bubble memory module! -- Art Rice *# Special Data Processing Corporation -------------------------------------- All opinions expressed are mine and do not reflect the views of my employer. ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels References: <39007D28.82D47616@jetnet.ab.ca> <3901edf0$0$209@nntp1.ba.best.com> <8e1u4h$o4q$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> Organization: Chez Inwap From: inwap@best.com (Joe Smith) Date: 24 Apr 2000 20:46:23 GMT Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3904b29f$0$215@nntp1.ba.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell3.ba.best.com X-Trace: nntp1.ba.best.com 956609183 215 inwap@206.184.139.134 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news2.best.com!news3.best.com!nntp1.ba.best.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54705 In article <8e1u4h$o4q$1@news1.tc.umn.edu>, George R. Gonzalez wrote: > >Joe Smith wrote in message <3901edf0$0$209@nntp1.ba.best.com>... > > >>Nixie tubes had a neat feature. The least significant digit was a bit >>analog. > > >Well, that's not a Nixie phenomenon, it happens with any counter >where the LSD is displayed. But 7-segment displays ruin that effect. Nixie tubes had discrete display elements per digit; 7-segment displays do not. -Joe -- See http://www.inwap.com/ for PDP-10 and "ReBoot" pages. ###### From: "George R. Gonzalez" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:34:28 -0500 Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus Lines: 20 Message-ID: <8e2f9s$rul$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> References: <39007D28.82D47616@jetnet.ab.ca> <3901edf0$0$209@nntp1.ba.best.com> <8e1u4h$o4q$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <3904b29f$0$215@nntp1.ba.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: grg2.micro.umn.edu X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!news1.tc.umn.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54710 Joe Smith wrote in message <3904b29f$0$215@nntp1.ba.best.com>... >But 7-segment displays ruin that effect. Nixie tubes had discrete >display elements per digit; 7-segment displays do not. > -Joe Aha! I see your point! There were also those mediocre edge-lit plexiglas digit displays that were also "stacked". Don't recall if they stacked the digits in order tho. ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels References: <8dtj3n$fse@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <39025B02.7A199BA6@jetnet.ab.ca> <39025E73.A421B816@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Disclaimer: Everything I write is false. Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 24 Apr 2000 14:49:55 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 24 Apr 2000 14:49:57 -0700, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54734 Ben Franchuk writes: > I knew I saw some bulbs somewhere. About $.33 each. > > http://www.jameco.com/cfm/detail.cfm?sub_class_code=2G1&name=LEDs%20and%20Lamps Good find. That one is 5V, 60mA, 25000 hour. Unfortunately they don't have the 15V ones, so I guess I'll have to pay more for them. But since DEC is selling the official part for $2, that's at least an upper bound on what I'll have to pay. Eric ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels References: <903.145T1295T10544648@sky.bus.com> Organization: None X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: kragen@dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker) Lines: 29 Message-ID: X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: support@usenetserver.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 19:05:47 EDT Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:05:47 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!news-x.support.nl!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone1.usenetserver.com!cyclone1.usenetserver.com!news-east.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54793 In article , Ric Werme wrote: >The Packard Bell 250 used blue-green electroluminescent lights. >And magneto-restrictive memory. Sort of like a mercury delay >line only different. I had a couple of silly ideas on mercury-delay-line analogues a few years ago. Idea #1 was to use the Internet's bandwidth-delay product to store your data. Place a pair of computers somewhere (preferably connected by something like a gigabit geosynchronous-satellite connection) and bounce data between them. Trouble is, you have packet loss, which is unpredictable and bursty. I don't think you could get this to work reliably no matter how much ECC you threw at it. Idea #2 was simply laser storage; if you transmit at a gigabit --- well within the capability of present-day laser transmission --- you can store roughly one bit per foot of delay. Given an object a few hundred miles away, you could easily store a few kilobits of data. Trouble is, the cost per bit is enormous and silly. -- Kragen Sitaker The Internet stock bubble didn't burst on 1999-11-08. Hurrah! The power didn't go out on 2000-01-01 either. :) ###### From: bjj@arlvax.arl.psu.edu Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Date: Tuesday, 25 APR 2000 21:27 EDT Organization: Applied Research Lab Lines: 12 Message-ID: <8e5h88$1bd0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> References: <8dtj3n$fse@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: netmon.arl.psu.edu X-Newsreader: VMS TPU/News Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54762 In article , "The Bakers" writes: >Whatever happened to the PSU HCL/ECL PDP-10 ? > >Did it end up at Salvage ? Is it still in the basement of EEW ? The KA10 was still running perfectly in 1994 with many years of spare parts remaining. Unfortunately it was an embarrassment to management. It was torn apart. The wirewrap backplane from one of the two CPU cabinets went to a DEC serviceman's garage wall. The rest was just disposed of. All I have left is an image copy of its disk packs, but that's all I need to bring it back to life some day (given a softare KA10 emulater). ###### From: simotit@evitech.fi (Simo Tuominen) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:02:34 GMT Organization: Espoo-Vantaa Institute of Technology Lines: 14 Message-ID: <39068914.4736766@localhost> References: <903.145T1295T10544648@sky.bus.com> <8e1tan$ne2$1@panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: aqua00.edu2.evitech.fi Cancel-Lock: sha1:uXEuLBpt6Ep1RZ7qnANOdMtqZvU= X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 X-NFilter: 1.2.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!news.algonet.se!algonet!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.bahnhof.se!news.defero.net!news.bbnetworks.net!learnet.freenet.hut.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54795 On 24 Apr 2000 12:38:47 -0400, jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) wrote: >>>Think the old Univac 494 also had those neon lights, as did the >>>control panel for the magnetic drums. > >Ah, I was born in 1960 thus my affection for neon displays. >That was the look of *SPACE AGE PROGRESS*. > >>The Packard Bell 250 used blue-green electroluminescent lights. > >Perhaps neon with blue-green phosphor? What would be the point, as neon is bright enough by itself, and the colour is kinda cute if you like pink. ###### From: "The Bakers" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers References: <8dtj3n$fse@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> <8e5h88$1bd0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu> Subject: Re: light bulbs for DEC front panels Lines: 27 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: <1xKN4.36290$WF.1753729@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:59:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.176.151 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 956789949 12.79.176.151 (Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:59:09 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:59:09 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.19!wnmasters2!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54872 Sorry to hear about that. Somehow I'm not surprised, being rather familiar with the 'management' to whom you referred :-) A lot of good work was done on that system. ======== wrote in message news:8e5h88$1bd0@r02n01.cac.psu.edu... > In article , > "The Bakers" writes: > >Whatever happened to the PSU HCL/ECL PDP-10 ? > > > >Did it end up at Salvage ? Is it still in the basement of EEW ? > > The KA10 was still running perfectly in 1994 with many years of spare parts > remaining. Unfortunately it was an embarrassment to management. It was > torn apart. The wirewrap backplane from one of the two CPU cabinets went > to a DEC serviceman's garage wall. The rest was just disposed of. All I > have left is an image copy of its disk packs, but that's all I need to bring > it back to life some day (given a softare KA10 emulater).