From: hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix Date: 29 Mar 2000 12:14:02 -0600 Organization: House of Hawkins Lines: 26 Message-ID: <8bth5a$phr$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: hawkins.cba.uni.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uni.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53345 In article <38DF6776.BFD83E7F@netinsight.se>, Johnny Billquist wrote: >Jay Maynard wrote: >> Somehow, I doubt you could even attach a SCSI >> CD-ROM drive to a -10, let alone read an ISO9660 filesystem with Joliet >> extensions on it. >Don't be too sure of youself. First you need a SCSI controller. >That has already been fixed. XKL has SCSI on their machines. >I also remember about a Massbus<->SCSI adapter, which can be >used on older PDP-10s. *giggle* The image comes to mind of an old PDP-10 in it's mamoth glory, with an itty-bitty wire coming out to connect to the 3.5 inch drive in a box about the size of the buttons & switches . . . hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu (319) 266-7114 http://eyry.econ.iastate.edu/hawk These opinions will not be those of UNI until it pays my retainer. ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:15:52 -0800 Organization: Denim Software Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <38DF6776.BFD83E7F@netinsight.se> <8bth5a$phr$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.c3.df X-Server-Date: 29 Mar 2000 21:15:37 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53412 In article <8bth5a$phr$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu>, hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu wrote: >The image comes to mind of an old PDP-10 in it's mamoth glory, with >an itty-bitty wire coming out to connect to the 3.5 inch drive in >a box about the size of the buttons & switches . . . And the result has more disk space than it would have had available to it in its hey-day with a room full of drives. -- Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adept ###### Message-ID: <38E31D16.E003C9C7@netinsight.se> From: Johnny Billquist Organization: Netinsight AB X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix References: <8bth5a$phr$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 30 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:23:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.16.221.33 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.com X-Trace: newsc.telia.net 954408214 194.16.221.33 (Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:23:34 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:23:34 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.algonet.se!algonet!uninett.no!newsfeed1.telia.no!masternews.telia.net!newsc.telia.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53307 hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu wrote: > > In article <38DF6776.BFD83E7F@netinsight.se>, > Johnny Billquist wrote: > >Don't be too sure of youself. First you need a SCSI controller. > >That has already been fixed. XKL has SCSI on their machines. > >I also remember about a Massbus<->SCSI adapter, which can be > >used on older PDP-10s. > > *giggle* > > The image comes to mind of an old PDP-10 in it's mamoth glory, with > an itty-bitty wire coming out to connect to the 3.5 inch drive in > a box about the size of the buttons & switches . . . Well, if you remmeber the old machines, imagine this: The itty-bitty wire is actually the massbus cable. Now, at the end of that cable is the adapter, and then the disk. You could almost hide that stuff inside the cable. Massbus cables are more like some prehistoric anaconda. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist | johnny.billquist@netinsight.net Net Insight AB | phone: +46 8 685 04 88 Västberga Allé 9 | fax: +46 8 685 04 20 Box 42093 | SE-126 30 STOCKHOLM, Sweden | http://www.netinsight.net ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix References: <38DF6776.BFD83E7F@netinsight.se> <8bth5a$phr$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> <38E31D16.E003C9C7@netinsight.se> Organization: Daedalus Consulting From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Message-ID: <954415102.55241@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Cache-Post-Path: shelley.paradise.net.nz!unknown@203-96-144-16.cable.paradise.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 22 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:18:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.152.26 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 954415117 203.96.152.26 (Thu, 30 Mar 2000 23:18:37 NZST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 23:18:37 NZST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!don Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53361 In article <38E31D16.E003C9C7@netinsight.se>, Johnny Billquist wrote: >hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu wrote: >> *giggle* >> >> The image comes to mind of an old PDP-10 in it's mamoth glory, with >> an itty-bitty wire coming out to connect to the 3.5 inch drive in >> a box about the size of the buttons & switches . . . > >Well, if you remmeber the old machines, imagine this: >The itty-bitty wire is actually the massbus cable. Now, at >the end of that cable is the adapter, and then the disk. >You could almost hide that stuff inside the cable. ROTFL You do realise that MASSBUS connectors are as wide as and higher than a 3.5" disk drive. You'd have what looks like a MASSBUS cable with nothing more than a big plug on the end. 8-) (The cable is about an inch thick, with *lots* of wires in it.) -- don ###### Message-ID: <38E345BD.82E3188B@netinsight.se> From: Johnny Billquist Organization: Netinsight AB X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix References: <38DF6776.BFD83E7F@netinsight.se> <8bth5a$phr$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> <38E31D16.E003C9C7@netinsight.se> <954415102.55241@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 33 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:17:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.16.221.33 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.com X-Trace: newsc.telia.net 954418621 194.16.221.33 (Thu, 30 Mar 2000 14:17:01 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 14:17:01 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.algonet.se!algonet!uninett.no!newsfeed1.telia.no!masternews.telia.net!newsc.telia.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53309 Don Stokes wrote: > > In article <38E31D16.E003C9C7@netinsight.se>, > Johnny Billquist wrote: > >Well, if you remmeber the old machines, imagine this: > >The itty-bitty wire is actually the massbus cable. Now, at > >the end of that cable is the adapter, and then the disk. > >You could almost hide that stuff inside the cable. > > ROTFL > > You do realise that MASSBUS connectors are as wide as and higher than a > 3.5" disk drive. You'd have what looks like a MASSBUS cable with nothing > more than a big plug on the end. 8-) Yup. That was the image that poppin into my mind when Hawk wrote his note. > (The cable is about an inch thick, with *lots* of wires in it.) To it's defence, we should admit that it was pretty fast for its day... I still have a bunch of massbus cables lying around. Just in case I want to hook up a TU77 to the 11/70. (And I don't think I'll ever spin up any of our remaining RP06 or RP07 drives.) Johnny -- Johnny Billquist | johnny.billquist@netinsight.net Net Insight AB | phone: +46 8 685 04 88 Västberga Allé 9 | fax: +46 8 685 04 20 Box 42093 | SE-126 30 STOCKHOLM, Sweden | http://www.netinsight.net ###### From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix Date: 30 Mar 2000 14:39:37 GMT Organization: TSS Inc. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <8bvov9$r87$1@citadel.in.taronga.com> References: <8bth5a$phr$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> <38E31D16.E003C9C7@netinsight.se> <954415102.55241@shelley.paradise.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: citadel.in.taronga.com X-Trace: citadel.in.taronga.com 954427177 27911 10.0.0.43 (30 Mar 2000 14:39:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@taronga.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Mar 2000 14:39:37 GMT X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-proxy.baileynm.com!citadel.in.taronga.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53359 In article <954415102.55241@shelley.paradise.net.nz>, Don Stokes wrote: >You do realise that MASSBUS connectors are as wide as and higher than a >3.5" disk drive. You'd have what looks like a MASSBUS cable with nothing >more than a big plug on the end. 8-) >(The cable is about an inch thick, with *lots* of wires in it.) We had some UNISYS 1100 series boxes that had what I assume were some kind of data cables that were at least 3 inches in diameter. At old IBM sites that have been upgraded peicemeal over the years, you get incredible chains of thick and thin cables connected to boxes of various sizes, with an inverse relationship between the size of the cable and the amount of data you could pump across it. -- This is The Reverend Peter da Silva's Boring Sig File - there are no references to Wolves, Kibo, Discordianism, or The Church of the Subgenius in this document Executive Vice President, Corporate Communications, Entropy Gradient Reversals. ###### Message-ID: <38E379CE.B605A7A2@jetnet.ab.ca> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:59:10 -0700 From: Ben Franchuk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix References: <8bth5a$phr$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> <38E31D16.E003C9C7@netinsight.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.153.6.51 X-Trace: 30 Mar 2000 08:35:20 -0700, 207.153.6.51 Organization: OA Internet Lines: 14 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.oanet.com!207.153.6.51 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53289 > > Well, if you remmeber the old machines, imagine this: > The itty-bitty wire is actually the massbus cable. Now, at > the end of that cable is the adapter, and then the disk. > You could almost hide that stuff inside the cable. > > Massbus cables are more like some prehistoric anaconda. > Chuckle ... thinking its lair somewhere in the power supplies. -- "We do not inherit our time on this planet from our parents... We borrow it from our children." The Lagging edge of technology: http://www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/woodelf/index.html ###### From: hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix Date: 30 Mar 2000 10:00:49 -0600 Organization: House of Hawkins Lines: 33 Message-ID: <8bvtnh$u5f$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> References: <38E31D16.E003C9C7@netinsight.se> <954415102.55241@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <38E345BD.82E3188B@netinsight.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: hawkins.cba.uni.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uni.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53347 In article <38E345BD.82E3188B@netinsight.se>, Johnny Billquist wrote: >Don Stokes wrote: >> You do realise that MASSBUS connectors are as wide as and higher than a >> 3.5" disk drive. You'd have what looks like a MASSBUS cable with nothing >> more than a big plug on the end. 8-) >Yup. That was the image that poppin into my mind when Hawk >wrote his note. yikes, now I need the self-control not to go do this. I suppose putting ethernet in the apple ii comes first . . . >> (The cable is about an inch thick, with *lots* of wires in it.) >To it's defence, we should admit that it was pretty fast for >its day... I still have a bunch of massbus cables lying around. >Just in case I want to hook up a TU77 to the 11/70. (And I don't >think I'll ever spin up any of our remaining RP06 or RP07 drives.) They can also come in handy for self defense . . . :) hawk, still frivolous [gee, amazing how an offer of a permanent job can change your mood . . .] -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu (319) 266-7114 http://eyry.econ.iastate.edu/hawk These opinions will not be those of UNI until it pays my retainer. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix Date: Fri, 31 Mar 00 09:25:31 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <8c20mb$npb$2@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <954451005.915132@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <38e3c722_2@news.wizvax.net> <38E41FB7.45A5@tc.umn.edu> <954491871.729577@shelley.paradise.net.nz> X-Trace: Mkl7nmI7f8zU9kn/QMkI1WuUtB45Gm3sw5qcmjDS120= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Mar 2000 11:03:39 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53475 In article <954491871.729577@shelley.paradise.net.nz>, don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) wrote: >In article <38E41FB7.45A5@tc.umn.edu>, Howes wrote: >> Kinda reminds me of the old hermaphrodite cable connectors the old IBM >>System 360/370 channels used - might have even been the same style - >>plugging those things together required three men and a boy to overcome >>the tension on the contacts! > >MASSBUS cables have zero insertion force connectors. I fortunately >never really had to deal with them direct -- all my work on >MASSBUS-equipped boxes was software, and dealling with engineers >crawling out from under an 11/70 saying "it *can't* still be crashing, >we've changed everything!" was Somebody Else's Problem. Wow! I hadn't realized that field service for minis were that thin :-). Ours tended to portliness. Groan, now that I've read my comment I've discovered I'm suffering from punning. But it's just too good to edit out :-). /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix References: <954415102.55241@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <38E345BD.82E3188B@netinsight.se> <8bvtnh$u5f$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> Organization: Daedalus Consulting From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Message-ID: <954451005.915132@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Cache-Post-Path: shelley.paradise.net.nz!unknown@203-96-144-16.cable.paradise.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 28 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:17:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.152.26 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 954451021 203.96.152.26 (Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:17:01 NZST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:17:01 NZST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!news.netgate.net.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!don Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53530 In article <8bvtnh$u5f$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu>, wrote: >In article <38E345BD.82E3188B@netinsight.se>, >Johnny Billquist wrote: >>Don Stokes wrote: > >>> You do realise that MASSBUS connectors are as wide as and higher than a >>> 3.5" disk drive. You'd have what looks like a MASSBUS cable with nothing >>> more than a big plug on the end. 8-) > >yikes, now I need the self-control not to go do this. I suppose >putting ethernet in the apple ii comes first . . . Yeah, I guess it's no worse than the etherpython (AUI cable) I pulled under the machine room floor for the sole purpose was to connect a matchbox sized fibre transceiver. Getting the FOT to stay where it was put was a challenge. They're not MASSBUS cables by any stretch of the imagination, but etherpythons still have a life of their own... My other "favourite" cable to deal with was the DEC SDI cables. These are rectangular in section and bend one way but not the other, so routing the buggers is a matter of turning and twisting... I don't think you can route MASSBUS cables. You plug in one end, wrestle the other end into its socket and the cable itself goes where it damn well pleases. -- don ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix References: <38E345BD.82E3188B@netinsight.se> <8bvtnh$u5f$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> <954451005.915132@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com Message-ID: <38e3c722_2@news.wizvax.net> Date: 30 Mar 2000 16:29:06 -0500 X-Trace: 30 Mar 2000 16:29:06 -0500, dbit.dbit.com Lines: 18 XPident: wilson X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.181.141.3 XPident: Unknown Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.phoen-x.net!news.wizvax.net!dbit.com!wilson Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53443 In article <954451005.915132@shelley.paradise.net.nz>, Don Stokes wrote: >I don't think you can route MASSBUS cables. You plug in one end, >wrestle the other end into its socket and the cable itself goes where it >damn well pleases. Yeah, there's a *reason* why Massbus drives weigh 500+ lbs and the cables always seem to be twice the length they need to be! Anyway, I've always felt that duct tape would be the proper method to mount a 3.5" disk to a PDP-10, but only because there's no place to fit pop rivets. The Massbus cable would't be directly involved, since I doubt anyone is planning to build a replacement control board for a PCish IDE/SCSI HDA that speaks raw Massbus and has a 120-pin connector on the back. Although, I'd sure buy one! John Wilson D Bit ###### From: Howes Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:47:03 -0600 Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus Lines: 27 Message-ID: <38E41FB7.45A5@tc.umn.edu> References: <38E345BD.82E3188B@netinsight.se> <8bvtnh$u5f$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> <954451005.915132@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <38e3c722_2@news.wizvax.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pub56k-22-12.dialup.umn.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!news1.tc.umn.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53551 John Wilson wrote: > > In article <954451005.915132@shelley.paradise.net.nz>, > Don Stokes wrote: > >I don't think you can route MASSBUS cables. You plug in one end, > >wrestle the other end into its socket and the cable itself goes where it > >damn well pleases. > > Yeah, there's a *reason* why Massbus drives weigh 500+ lbs and the cables > always seem to be twice the length they need to be! > > Anyway, I've always felt that duct tape would be the proper method to mount a > 3.5" disk to a PDP-10, but only because there's no place to fit pop rivets. > The Massbus cable would't be directly involved, since I doubt anyone is > planning to build a replacement control board for a PCish IDE/SCSI HDA > that speaks raw Massbus and has a 120-pin connector on the back. Although, > I'd sure buy one! > > John Wilson > D Bit Kinda reminds me of the old hermaphrodite cable connectors the old IBM System 360/370 channels used - might have even been the same style - plugging those things together required three men and a boy to overcome the tension on the contacts! Ron Howes ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix References: <954451005.915132@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <38e3c722_2@news.wizvax.net> <38E41FB7.45A5@tc.umn.edu> Organization: Daedalus Consulting From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Message-ID: <954491871.729577@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Cache-Post-Path: shelley.paradise.net.nz!unknown@203-96-144-16.cable.paradise.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 16 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:38:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.152.26 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 954491887 203.96.152.26 (Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:38:07 NZST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:38:07 NZST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!don Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53532 In article <38E41FB7.45A5@tc.umn.edu>, Howes wrote: > Kinda reminds me of the old hermaphrodite cable connectors the old IBM >System 360/370 channels used - might have even been the same style - >plugging those things together required three men and a boy to overcome >the tension on the contacts! MASSBUS cables have zero insertion force connectors. I fortunately never really had to deal with them direct -- all my work on MASSBUS-equipped boxes was software, and dealling with engineers crawling out from under an 11/70 saying "it *can't* still be crashing, we've changed everything!" was Somebody Else's Problem. But I'm reliably informed that ZIF connectors were not a great idea. With 120 pins in the connector and not a hell of a lot of force behind them when you turn the little handle, I'm not surprised. -- don ###### Message-ID: <38E46ED6.60313D54@netinsight.se> From: Johnny Billquist Organization: Netinsight AB X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix References: <954451005.915132@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <38e3c722_2@news.wizvax.net> <38E41FB7.45A5@tc.umn.edu> <954491871.729577@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 36 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:24:42 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.16.221.33 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.com X-Trace: newsc.telia.net 954494682 194.16.221.33 (Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:24:42 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:24:42 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!news.algonet.se!algonet!uninett.no!newsfeed1.telia.no!masternews.telia.net!newsc.telia.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53453 Don Stokes wrote: > > In article <38E41FB7.45A5@tc.umn.edu>, Howes wrote: > > Kinda reminds me of the old hermaphrodite cable connectors the old IBM > >System 360/370 channels used - might have even been the same style - > >plugging those things together required three men and a boy to overcome > >the tension on the contacts! > > MASSBUS cables have zero insertion force connectors. I fortunately > never really had to deal with them direct -- all my work on > MASSBUS-equipped boxes was software, and dealling with engineers > crawling out from under an 11/70 saying "it *can't* still be crashing, > we've changed everything!" was Somebody Else's Problem. But I'm > reliably informed that ZIF connectors were not a great idea. With > 120 pins in the connector and not a hell of a lot of force behind them > when you turn the little handle, I'm not surprised. The problem that I had with the connectors what that one or two of those small buggered pins sometimes bent, which meant that things didn't work correctly, and I had a strange problem. After a while I usually started visually checking the connectors, but it's easy to go blind staring at the end of that connector. Apart from that, they were rather okay. You could also disassemble the connector and move the cable to three different positions, which was useful when the cable might come different ways to the receptacle. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist | johnny.billquist@netinsight.net Net Insight AB | phone: +46 8 685 04 88 Västberga Allé 9 | fax: +46 8 685 04 20 Box 42093 | SE-126 30 STOCKHOLM, Sweden | http://www.netinsight.net ###### From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix References: <38E345BD.82E3188B@netinsight.se> <8bvtnh$u5f$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> <954451005.915132@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <38e3c722_2@news.wizvax.net> <38E41FB7.45A5@tc.umn.edu> Reply-To: jmaynard@texas.net Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Lines: 9 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:36:01 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-pufIILgPigYjcmAfhC7BS3aWkVVCXTaqI+O1yz5PnTgAKFvorZDiMHijW5RYetcubl1UXvGpBg8P2uS!Yekzj42jszNoQBC0B+MR X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:36:01 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!portc.blue.aol.com!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news5.giganews.com.POSTED!jmaynard Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53426 On Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:47:03 -0600, Howes wrote: > Kinda reminds me of the old hermaphrodite cable connectors the old IBM >System 360/370 channels used - might have even been the same style - >plugging those things together required three men and a boy to overcome >the tension on the contacts! The jackscrews on bus and tag cables were *not* optional. They served as an assist in mating the doggone things. Now, when it came time to unplug them... ###### Message-ID: <38F42778.3D909C0F@byron.ext.telia.se> From: "P.Lj" Organization: TDF / Telia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: from the flames of PDP-10 and unix References: <954415102.55241@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <38E345BD.82E3188B@netinsight.se> <8bvtnh$u5f$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> <954451005.915132@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 43 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 07:36:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.115.116.238 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.com X-Trace: newsb.telia.net 955524990 131.115.116.238 (Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:36:30 CEST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:36:30 CEST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!news.algonet.se!algonet!uninett.no!newsfeed1.telia.no!masternews.telia.net!newsb.telia.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:54046 Don Stokes wrote: > In article <8bvtnh$u5f$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu>, > wrote: > >In article <38E345BD.82E3188B@netinsight.se>, > >Johnny Billquist wrote: > >>Don Stokes wrote: > > > >>> You do realise that MASSBUS connectors are as wide as and higher than a > >>> 3.5" disk drive. You'd have what looks like a MASSBUS cable with nothing > >>> more than a big plug on the end. 8-) > > > >yikes, now I need the self-control not to go do this. I suppose > >putting ethernet in the apple ii comes first . . . > > Yeah, I guess it's no worse than the etherpython (AUI cable) I pulled a couple of CI-pythons the other day, and man they were though! > I pulled > under the machine room floor for the sole purpose was to connect a > matchbox sized fibre transceiver. Getting the FOT to stay where it > was put was a challenge. They're not MASSBUS cables by any stretch > of the imagination, but etherpythons still have a life of their own... > As CI-pythons ;-) > > My other "favourite" cable to deal with was the DEC SDI cables. These > are rectangular in section and bend one way but not the other, so > routing the buggers is a matter of turning and twisting... > > I don't think you can route MASSBUS cables. You plug in one end, > wrestle the other end into its socket and the cable itself goes where it > damn well pleases. > > -- don