From: cht@krank.imipolex-g.com (Chris Taylor) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Mechanical AND and OR gates Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Lines: 9 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:47:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.105.206.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@pacbell.net X-Trace: news.pacbell.net 953668037 207.105.206.52 (Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:47:17 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:47:17 PST Organization: SBC Internet Services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!cyclone.swbell.net!news.pacbell.net.POSTED!cht Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52482 Can someone please point me to something about how to make binary logic gates using mechanical devices? I suppose that something like this must have been done plenty of times, but I am at a loss as to how to dig up the knowledge. Thanks a lot! -- Chris Taylor cht@imipolex-g.com KF6NMX Los Angeles, CA, USA http://www.imipolex-g.com/~cht ###### From: "George R. Gonzalez" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:51:20 -0600 Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus Lines: 9 Message-ID: <8b8kce$uv$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: grg2.micro.umn.edu X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!europa.netcrusader.net!128.223.220.30!logbridge.uoregon.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!news1.tc.umn.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52473 My 1868 pump-organ has several patents, quite likely for it's mechanical 10-input, 5 output PAL made out of wood AND gates and leather strap ORs. (There's 10 voicing knobs as inputs, and 5 flaps that control the sound). There's also a wired-OR pull-up (literally). The knee lever pulls up all the flaps so you get maximum volume. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: 21 Mar 2000 20:36:32 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <8b8mgg$lah$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> References: Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet10 X-Trace: freenet9.carleton.ca 953670992 21841 134.117.136.30 (21 Mar 2000 20:36:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: complaints@ncf.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Mar 2000 20:36:32 GMT X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet10.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!nntp.primenet.com.MISMATCH!nntp.frontiernet.net!nntp.gctr.net!xcski.com!freenet-news!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52557 Chris Taylor (cht@krank.imipolex-g.com) writes: > Can someone please point me to something about how to make binary logic gates > using mechanical devices? I suppose that something like this must have been > done plenty of times, but I am at a loss as to how to dig up the knowledge. > Thanks a lot! Go back circa 10 years in Scientific American's amateur hobby columns - check out the rope logic IIRC. My father's engineering magazines described fluidic logic back in the 1960's. They were used where electricity just couldn't cut it, eg. in heavy industrial applications. Go to a hardware store, buy then dissemble a Push-Push cabinet latch. ###### From: Digital.Magic@cadvision.com (John W Hall) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:54:51 GMT Message-ID: <38d7fc32.163347547@news.cadvision.com> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.130.158 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.130.158 X-Trace: 21 Mar 2000 15:53:59 -0700, 207.148.130.158 Organization: CADVision Development Corporation (http://www.cadvision.com/) Lines: 16 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.50.1.43 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!news.idt.net!nntp.cadvision.com!news.cadvision.com!207.148.130.158 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52556 On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:47:17 GMT, cht@krank.imipolex-g.com (Chris Taylor) wrote: >Can someone please point me to something about how to make binary logic gates >using mechanical devices? While waiting for a train about 30 years ago, I fell to contemplating the signalling system. There were three up/down pivoting arms (driving the semaphore paddles), one of which (A) had a bar welded to it that crossed below the B and C arms, such that if A was Up then the other two would alse be forced Up (B was Up if it's control input was Up OR or A's was Up. Ditto for C). Try to get a look at a Boehm System clarinet, IIRC that has a few Or switches on it. ###### From: hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: 21 Mar 2000 17:19:22 -0600 Organization: House of Hawkins Lines: 17 Message-ID: <8b901q$io5$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: hawkins.cba.uni.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uni.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52542 In article , Chris Taylor wrote: >Can someone please point me to something about how to make binary logic gates >using mechanical devices? I suppose that something like this must have been >done plenty of times, but I am at a loss as to how to dig up the knowledge. >Thanks a lot! Choose any room with two light switches, flip them both a couple of times, and then ponder. hawk -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu (319) 266-7114 http://eyry.econ.iastate.edu/hawk These opinions will not be those of UNI until it pays my retainer. ###### From: greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Organization: Rossum's Universal Robots Reply-To: greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk Message-ID: <38db6f5a.185488@news.freeuk.net> References: <8b8mgg$lah$1@freenet9.carleton.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:01:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.126.146.130 X-Complaints-To: abuse@freeuk.net X-Trace: nnrp4.clara.net 953737143 212.126.146.130 (Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:59:03 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:59:03 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp4.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52533 On 21 Mar 2000 20:36:32 GMT, ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) sprachen: > > Go to a hardware store, buy then dissemble a Push-Push cabinet latch. they're basically a little plastic flip-flop right? It's not implemented as 2 plastic NANDs is it? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Why pamper life's complexity, when the leather runs smooth on the passenger seee-eee-aaat? - - - - - - - - greenaum@yahoo.co.uk ###### From: Charles Richmond Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 02:37:28 -0600 Organization: Cannine Computer Center Lines: 22 Message-ID: <38D88648.B68C4D0F@plano.net> References: Reply-To: richmond@plano.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-east!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!rQ66!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52484 Chris Taylor wrote: > > Can someone please point me to something about how to make binary logic gates > using mechanical devices? I suppose that something like this must have been > done plenty of times, but I am at a loss as to how to dig up the knowledge. > Thanks a lot! > Look for the following book: _THe Tinker Toy Computer and Other Machinations_, by A.K. Dewdney, W.H. Freeman and Company, New York, 1993, ISBN: 0-7167-2489-8 for hardback and 0-7167-2479-X for paperback. Chapter 2, "The Rope-and-Pulley Wonder", is about creating gates from ropes and pulleys. Since this man wrote the regular Scientific American article "Computer Recreations" for many years, I assume that this chapter is a re-hash of what was published in SA. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Jim McArdle Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:37:59 -0600 Organization: IBM Austin Lines: 21 Message-ID: <38D8E8D7.11BA52D0@us.ibm.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: mcardle2.austin.ibm.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!portc.blue.aol.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!news.chips.ibm.com!newsfeed.btv.ibm.com!news2atm.raleigh.ibm.com!ausnews.austin.ibm.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52486 Hi Chris, Check out the "friendsofdigicomp" club on YAHOO. The DigiComp-I was a true mechanical digital computer with sliding planes. The DigiComp-II used marbles and marble gates. Some varients were the Dr NIM game and Think-A-Dot both using marbles and flip-flop gates. -- maverick Chris Taylor wrote: > Can someone please point me to something about how to make binary logic gates > using mechanical devices? I suppose that something like this must have been > done plenty of times, but I am at a loss as to how to dig up the knowledge. > Thanks a lot! > > -- > Chris Taylor cht@imipolex-g.com KF6NMX > Los Angeles, CA, USA > http://www.imipolex-g.com/~cht ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: 22 Mar 2000 20:28:17 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 47 Message-ID: <6uu2hyls8e.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8b901q$io5$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 953753303 497 10.0.3.2 (22 Mar 2000 19:28:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Mar 2000 19:28:23 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52588 hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu writes: > In article , > Chris Taylor wrote: > >Can someone please point me to something about how to make binary logic gates > >using mechanical devices? I suppose that something like this must have been > >done plenty of times, but I am at a loss as to how to dig up the knowledge. > >Thanks a lot! > > Choose any room with two light switches, flip them both a couple of > times, and then ponder. That would make them electro-mechanical gates, XOR gates to be precise. As wired in this house: 2 switches: _,o---------o ------o' _,o-------- presently "off" o---------o' ^ these flip up and down 3 or more switches: ,-. ,-. / X \ _,o------' o' `o `-----o ------o' | x | _,o-------- presently "on " o---------o o--------o' ^ this rotates around x Actually the flippers are usually also rotators with only 3 wires connected to them. The rotor is rotated 90 degrees on iach push of the button, with an biro-like mechanism. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic Use a WIMP (Windows Icons Mouse Pulldowns) interface - or get one with a CLUE (Command Linue User Environment)? ###### From: nailed_barnacleSPAMFREE@hotmail.com (barnacle) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:25:24 GMT Organization: Easynet Group plc Lines: 19 Message-ID: <8bb6sv$2fd2$1@quince.news.easynet.net> References: <8b901q$io5$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: nbarnes.easynet.co.uk X-Trace: quince.news.easynet.net 953753311 81314 194.154.98.206 (22 Mar 2000 19:28:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Mar 2000 19:28:31 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!easynet-tele!easynet.net!quince.news.easynet.net!egbert Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52606 In article <8b901q$io5$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu>, hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu wrote: >In article , >Chris Taylor wrote: >>Can someone please point me to something about how to make binary logic gates >>using mechanical devices? I suppose that something like this must have been >>done plenty of times, but I am at a loss as to how to dig up the knowledge. >>Thanks a lot! > >Choose any room with two light switches, flip them both a couple of >times, and then ponder. > >hawk > Then extend it to any number of switches... -- barnacle http://www.nailed-barnacle.co.uk ###### From: Charles Richmond Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:43:48 -0600 Organization: Cannine Computer Center Lines: 28 Message-ID: <38D95AB4.6A563D18@plano.net> References: <38D8E8D7.11BA52D0@us.ibm.com> Reply-To: richmond@plano.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!remarQ70!supernews.com!rQ66!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52609 Jim McArdle wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > Check out the "friendsofdigicomp" club on YAHOO. The DigiComp-I was a true > mechanical digital computer with sliding planes. The DigiComp-II used marbles > and marble gates. Some varients were the Dr NIM game and Think-A-Dot both > using marbles and flip-flop gates. > That reminds me of one more book: _How to Build a Working Digital Computer_, by Edward Alcosser, James P. Phillips, and Allen M Wolk, Hayden Book Company, Rochelle Park, New Jersey, 1968, *no* ISBN, but Library of Congress Catalog Number: 66-14495 While this construction uses electricity (a battery), the main parts are paper clips and an old cylindrical oatmeal box. Some assembly required. The thing could be built using cardboard, but a more sturdy construction would use Masonite or thin wooden slats. You can get this book through interlibrary loan. It is about 150 pages and it is full of interesting stuff. (If you are interested in the nitty-gritty details.) -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Sam Yorko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:46:17 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: <38D96959.4EE6@compuserve.com> References: <38D8E8D7.11BA52D0@us.ibm.com> <38D95AB4.6A563D18@plano.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!feed2.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!remarQ70!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!207.126.101.66.MISMATCH!rQ66!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52624 > That reminds me of one more book: > > _How to Build a Working Digital Computer_, by Edward Alcosser, > James P. Phillips, and Allen M Wolk, Hayden Book Company, > Rochelle Park, New Jersey, 1968, *no* ISBN, but Library of > Congress Catalog Number: 66-14495 > > While this construction uses electricity (a battery), the main > parts are paper clips and an old cylindrical oatmeal box. Some > assembly required. The thing could be built using cardboard, > but a more sturdy construction would use Masonite or thin wooden > slats. You can get this book through interlibrary loan. It is > about 150 pages and it is full of interesting stuff. (If you > are interested in the nitty-gritty details.) > Didn't the ALU use knife switches? ###### From: "The Bakers" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <38D8E8D7.11BA52D0@us.ibm.com> <38D95AB4.6A563D18@plano.net> <38D96959.4EE6@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Lines: 23 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:13:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.174.87 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 953781203 12.79.174.87 (Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:13:23 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:13:23 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!prairie.attcanada.net!newsfeed.attcanada.net!204.127.161.4!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52658 Sam Yorko wrote in message news:38D96959.4EE6@compuserve.com... > Didn't the ALU use knife switches? Yes, you're correct. Quite a few of them in fact (30 or 40 DPDT type?)....I built one from the book for a science fair in 1968. Rather tedious doing all the wiring, but it certainly worked fine and it was rather an impressive accomplishment. It had an overflow light, could do twos-complement arithmetic, etc. IIRC. The paper clips and oatmeal box referred to in an earlier post were used to construct a "drum memory" although it worked more like a card reader (e.g., read-only) with "brushes" than anything magnetic. You wrapped the oatmeal box in tinfoil (actually, I just used an empty large tin can like the one Hi-C juice drink uses) and then cover that with graph paper. Cut out the squares appropriate to the storage device contents. An array of bent paper clips press against the drum assembly, and wherever the graph paper is cutout.....voila, electricity flows and a corresponding lamp lights. You turn the drum by hand to address sequential locations. All in all, a nifty project (pre microprocessor :-) for the 60s. ###### From: Paul 125 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:43:29 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <8bd71t$nnj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 160.111.70.112 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Mar 23 13:43:29 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (WinNT; U ;Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x25.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 160.111.70.112 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDpaul125 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!naxos.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newshub.bart.net!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!netnews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52626 In article , cht@krank.imipolex-g.com (Chris Taylor) wrote: > Can someone please point me to something about how to make binary logic gates > using mechanical devices? I suppose that something like this must have been > done plenty of times, In 1938 Konrad Zuse built an entirely-mechanical, binary computer, later called the "Z-1," in Berlin. Shortly before his death in 1995, he supervised a reconstruction of it, which now is on exhibit at the German Museum of Technology in Berlin. It is not quite a "modern" stored-program computer, but it was certainly more than just a toy or demonstration device. Zuse went on to build computers using telephone relays, but he used mechanical elements for memory for his "Z-4," which was in use in Switzerland after the war. Details of Zuse's circuits, including a simulation, are found on several web sites. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: Sam Yorko Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 10:43:10 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 32 Message-ID: <38DA65BE.7D6B@compuserve.com> References: <38D8E8D7.11BA52D0@us.ibm.com> <38D95AB4.6A563D18@plano.net> <38D96959.4EE6@compuserve.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!logbridge.uoregon.edu!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!rQ66!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52724 The Bakers wrote: > > Sam Yorko wrote in message > news:38D96959.4EE6@compuserve.com... > > Didn't the ALU use knife switches? > > Yes, you're correct. Quite a few of them in fact (30 or 40 DPDT type?)....I > built one from the book for a science fair in 1968. Rather tedious doing > all the wiring, but it certainly worked fine and it was rather an impressive > accomplishment. It had an overflow light, could do twos-complement > arithmetic, etc. IIRC. > > The paper clips and oatmeal box referred to in an earlier post were used to > construct a "drum memory" although it worked more like a card reader (e.g., > read-only) with "brushes" than anything magnetic. You wrapped the oatmeal > box in tinfoil (actually, I just used an empty large tin can like the one > Hi-C juice drink uses) and then cover that with graph paper. Cut out the > squares appropriate to the storage device contents. An array of bent paper > clips press against the drum assembly, and wherever the graph paper is > cutout.....voila, electricity flows and a corresponding lamp lights. You > turn the drum by hand to address sequential locations. > > All in all, a nifty project (pre microprocessor :-) for the 60s. I too built one for a science fair project, but I ended up building the entire computer: memory, ALU, program store, I/O. Used a large juice can for the program store, since it was sturdier. Wiring the ALU was loads of fun... Do you still have the book? Sam ###### From: "The Bakers" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <38D8E8D7.11BA52D0@us.ibm.com> <38D95AB4.6A563D18@plano.net> <38D96959.4EE6@compuserve.com> <38DA65BE.7D6B@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Lines: 12 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:38:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.176.150 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 953858283 12.79.176.150 (Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:38:03 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:38:03 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.icl.net!europa.netcrusader.net!204.127.161.3!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52741 Sam Yorko wrote in message news:38DA65BE.7D6B@compuserve.com... > Do you still have the book? No, I believe the book was lost in a fire at my parents' house many years ago. Too bad....it would be fun to look through it again. From memory, I think Haydn published it. My copy was a paperback with a predominantly blue cover IIRC. Well worn, at that....given the use it got in building the thing :-) ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates References: From: Ric Werme X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #119 Lines: 38 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:46:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.218.4.112 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.ne.mediaone.net 953862417 24.218.4.112 (Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:46:57 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:46:57 EST Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.8.70!typhoon.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52804 >Chris Taylor wrote: >> >> Can someone please point me to something about how to make binary logic gates >> using mechanical devices? I suppose that something like this must have been >> done plenty of times, but I am at a loss as to how to dig up the knowledge. I used to have a fluidic RS flipflop that my father got at a trade show or something like that. Uncovering one of two small holes would let air into a venturi and deflect the water stream to the other side where it would be held by the partial vacuum there. At the time, Bailey Meter was looking into making simple digital control systems out of hydraulic logic. Edmund Scientific might have a functionally similar device. As for and/or gates, take a water pipe and several valves: AND: =====X====X====X====X== All valves (Xs) must be open to let water flow. OR: _ _ | :===X===: | | | | | ==== :===X===: ===== Any valve must be open to let water flow. | | | | | :===X===: | - - Use pressure activated valves and presto - hydraulic logic. The valves can have an extremely high gain, better than transistors, so you can have good fanout in your designs. If you want a purely mechanical system, a lock and key is a AND gate with multiple level inputs. The notches on the key have to match the pins in the lock before it will turn. -- Ric Werme | werme@nospam.mediaone.net http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme | ^^^^^^^ delete ###### From: Charles Richmond Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:51:25 -0600 Organization: Cannine Computer Center Lines: 50 Message-ID: <38DAD82D.BE608B2E@plano.net> References: <8bd71t$nnj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Reply-To: richmond@plano.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!rQ66!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52706 Paul 125 wrote: > > In article , > cht@krank.imipolex-g.com (Chris Taylor) wrote: > > Can someone please point me to something about how to make binary > > logic gates using mechanical devices? I suppose that something like > > this must have been done plenty of times, > > In 1938 Konrad Zuse built an entirely-mechanical, binary computer, later > called the "Z-1," in Berlin. Shortly before his death in 1995, he > supervised a reconstruction of it, which now is on exhibit at the German > Museum of Technology in Berlin. It is not quite a "modern" > stored-program computer, but it was certainly more than just a toy or > demonstration device. Zuse went on to build computers using telephone > relays, but he used mechanical elements for memory for his "Z-4," which > was in use in Switzerland after the war. Details of Zuse's circuits, > including a simulation, are found on several web sites. > There is some information in Zuse's autobiography--the English tranlation is entitled _The Computer, My Life_. I believe the German title is _Die Computer, Mine Lebenswerke_. _The Computer, My Life_, by Konrad Zuse, Berlin/ N.Y. Springer-Verlag 1993, ISBN 3-540-56453-5 Springer-Verlag Berlin, Heidelberg, New York ISBN 0-387-56453-5 Springer-Verlag New York, Berlin, Heidelberg In this book I read that Zuse and some of his cow-orkers (friends enlisted to help him) actually cut strips of metal and built their own relays for one of his computing machines. At the time this was done because the manufactured relays were too expensive and they needed a *lot* of them. I recommend this book, at least the English translation...I am fairly illiterate in German and can *not* comment on the original book. This book contains some of Zuse's logic diagrams and interesting details of his machines. Zuse founded a company after WWII called Zuse AG. It was bought out by Siemens in the early 1960's. Now Zuse AG had products that continued with the "Z" numbering system...to I think Z-44. Earlier people were wondering if NEC knew about the Z-1 when they made a PC and called it the Z-1. Now I am wondering about the Lexmark printers. They have a Z-11 printer, and I think a Z-41 or something. Might this *not* violate some trademarks owned now by Siemens? Paul, could you post the URL's of some of the Zuse WEB sites, especially the one containing the simulation of his computers? -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: "Republican" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 05:31:47 -0000 Message-ID: <953877055.20562.1.nnrp-01.9e98250c@news.demon.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: cemetery.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: cemetery.demon.co.uk:158.152.37.12 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 953877055 nnrp-01:20562 NO-IDENT cemetery.demon.co.uk:158.152.37.12 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Lines: 15 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!cemetery.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52806 >Chris Taylor wrote: >> >> Can someone please point me to something about how to make binary logic gates >> using mechanical devices? I suppose that something like this must have been >> done plenty of times, but I am at a loss as to how to dig up the knowledge. In the late 60's, there was a plastic mechanical training device known as the "Digicomp" ###### From: Will Salt Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: 24 Mar 2000 09:47:30 +0000 Organization: Pretty disorganised Lines: 48 Message-ID: References: <38d7fc32.163347547@news.cadvision.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-116-48.btinternet.com X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!btnet-peer!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!candle.btinternet.com!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52798 Digital.Magic@cadvision.com (John W Hall) writes: > On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:47:17 GMT, cht@krank.imipolex-g.com (Chris > Taylor) wrote: > > >Can someone please point me to something about how to make binary logic gates > >using mechanical devices? > > While waiting for a train about 30 years ago, I fell to contemplating > the signalling system. There were three up/down pivoting arms (driving > the semaphore paddles), one of which (A) had a bar welded to it that > crossed below the B and C arms, such that if A was Up then the other > two would alse be forced Up (B was Up if it's control input was Up OR > or A's was Up. Ditto for C). Sounds like you're talking about "semaphore slotting", which (in Britain, at least) is used to make sure signal arms on the same post, controlled from different places, cannot give conflicting signals. The most-commonly-used setup in Britain was AND: the lower signal would only show a clear indication if both signals had been set to clear by the signalmen. However -- sudden thought -- if you apply the proper terminology, it's actually an OR gate using 0-positive logic, as the correct name for a clear signal is "Off". Another good place for mechanical logic gates is the interlocking inside a signalbox, which prevent the signaller from clearing conflicting routes. The most common (British) form was that each operating lever would extend downwards into the lower floor of the signalbox (US: tower?), and each lever would be attached to a number of "tappet rods", which moved horizontally. The locking was carried out by "bridle rods" at 90 degs to these, running across all the tappet rods, with blocks ("dogs") fitting into notches into the tappets. The dogs and notches were shaped so that movement of the levers (and therefore tappets) would push a dog out of its notch, moving a bridle and pushing a dog into a notch on another tappet, preventing that lever from being moved. There were also far more complicated "conditional locks". Undoubtably, you can find websites to tell you more. > Try to get a look at a Boehm System clarinet, IIRC that has a few Or > switches on it. Especially the keys worked by the little fingers. -- Will Salt ###### From: Digital.Magic@cadvision.com (John W Hall) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:44:19 GMT Message-ID: <38db6fd3.42829878@news.cadvision.com> References: <38d7fc32.163347547@news.cadvision.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.146.218 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.146.218 X-Trace: 24 Mar 2000 06:43:10 -0700, 207.148.146.218 Organization: CADVision Development Corporation (http://www.cadvision.com/) Lines: 16 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.50.1.43 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!news.idt.net!nntp.cadvision.com!news.cadvision.com!207.148.146.218 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52770 On 24 Mar 2000 09:47:30 +0000, Will Salt wrote: >...Sounds like you're talking about "semaphore slotting", which (in >Britain, at least) ... This was in Britain, at the station on the east end of the (apparently leaky) Severn Tunnel, but I can't recall its name. I now live in western Canada. >However -- sudden thought -- if you apply the proper terminology, it's >actually an OR gate using 0-positive logic, as the correct name for a >clear signal is "Off".... Yes, I recall realising it was a practical demonstration that a +logic AND switch IS a -logic OR switch. ###### From: Paul 125 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:51:37 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 23 Message-ID: <8bfrt4$lft$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <8bd71t$nnj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38DAD82D.BE608B2E@plano.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 160.111.70.112 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Mar 24 13:51:37 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (WinNT; U ;Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x35.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 160.111.70.112 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDpaul125 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52728 I > > Paul, could you post the URL's of some of the Zuse WEB sites, > especially the one containing the simulation of his computers? > > -- > + Raul Rojas, Professor of Computer Science at the Free University of Berlin, is the leading authority on Zuse reconstructions. Try http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~thurm/z23/ for a simulation of a relay device. Rojas's book, only inGerman, is _Die Rechenmaschinen von Konrad Zuse_ (Springer, 1998). If that URL is dead, you might try finding Rojas personally or using a search engine to find Zuse. Zuse's son, Horst, is also a computer science professor & has put out a CD_ROM about Zuse and his work. MIT Press is bringing out a book about early computer architecture this spring, which will also have a lot of this material, in English. Rojas is the Editor. Check Amazon or the MIT Press web site for availability. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: Paul 125 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:59:18 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 15 Message-ID: <8bfsbe$lrj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <8bd71t$nnj$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38DAD82D.BE608B2E@plano.net> <8bfrt4$lft$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 160.111.70.112 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Mar 24 13:59:18 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (WinNT; U ;Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x42.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 160.111.70.112 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDpaul125 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.algonet.se!algonet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52736 In article <8bfrt4$lft$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Paul 125 wrote: > I > > > > Paul, could you post the URL's of some of the Zuse WEB sites, > > especially the one containing the simulation of his computers? > > OK, that's a dead Web page--sorry. It must be out there somewhere. For info on the English Language book, go to: http://mitpress.mit.edu/book-home.tcl?isbn=0262181975 Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### Message-ID: <38DB91C7.F0F1FD8@mediaone.net> From: Neal Birch X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:01:51 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.107.107 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net 953913711 24.129.107.107 (Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:01:51 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:01:51 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone.austin.rr.com!news.austin.rr.com!cyclone-southeast.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-southeast.rr.com!newsfeed.se.mediaone.net!typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:52719 Ric Werme wrote: > >Chris Taylor wrote: > >> > >> Can someone please point me to something about how to make binary logic gates > >> using mechanical devices? I suppose that something like this must have been > >> done plenty of times, but I am at a loss as to how to dig up the knowledge. > > I used to have a fluidic RS flipflop that my father got at a trade show > or something like that. Uncovering one of two small holes would let air > into a venturi and deflect the water stream to the other side where it > would be held by the partial vacuum there. > > At the time, Bailey Meter was looking into making simple digital > control systems out of hydraulic logic. One of the end uses was fire control operations on Naval vessels. I had to study the things for a test one time, i had no idea (at the time) why they were in use, it was years later when i tied the "compressed air logic" into EMP (electro magnetic pulse) and what would happen when all that expensive electronic guidance and control equipement turned into dead copper by a tactical nuke near miss. The ship would be dead in the water, but the guns could still fire as long as the air pressure held out. You might be able to find one of those old "Fluid Dynamics" training manuals, if the navy still has them. it's been almost 30 years. -- ###### From: Jim McArdle Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Mechanical AND and OR gates Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:39:23 -0600 Organization: IBM Austin Lines: 10 Message-ID: <38E39F5B.E6FD6E4C@us.ibm.com> References: <38DB91C7.F0F1FD8@mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mcardle2.austin.ibm.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!Quza.UK.peer!uunet!ams.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!an02.austin.ibm.com!ausnews.austin.ibm.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:53277 There's a nice article on Konrad Zuse at website: http://www.epemag.com/zuse/ written by his son. He is credited with making the first programmable mechanical binary digital computer in 1941.