From: dowe@78.los-angeles-14.ca.dial-access.att.net (Dowe Keller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Macintosh Plus Date: 25 Jan 2000 21:11:40 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 20 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.64.132.97 X-Trace: bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net 948834700 187 12.64.132.97 (25 Jan 2000 21:11:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jan 2000 21:11:40 GMT X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.nacamar.de!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48753 Hello all, I've bought myself another obsolete micro, and would like to know some info about it from the Macintrashers in the audience. 1) When did this particular toaster come out? 2) Can one still get Mac OS what_ever_it_is for this machine? The little beastie seems perfectly OK, except no boot diskette. Thank you, Dowe Keller dowe@worldnet.att.net http://home.att.net/~dowe --- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- GSC d? s: a C++++ L * U++>++++ P++ L+++>++++ E- W++ N++ K++ w--- M- PS+++ PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+ R tv b++++ DI+ D+ G e+>++ h++ r@ y+ -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:57:39 -0600 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.33.4e X-Server-Date: 25 Jan 2000 21:57:39 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48764 In article , dowe@78.los-angeles-14.ca.dial-access.att.net (Dowe Keller) wrote: >1) When did this particular toaster come out? 1986. >2) Can one still get Mac OS what_ever_it_is for this machine? The Mac Plus can run up to ... well, heck: http://www.info.apple.com/info.apple.com/applespec/applespec.taf?RID=4 -- Howard S Shubs hshubs@mindspring.com hshubs@bix.com The Denim Adept Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger? SPAM: uce@ftc.gov postmaster@[127.0.0.1] abuse@[127.0.0.1] ###### From: dowe@78.los-angeles-14.ca.dial-access.att.net (Dowe Keller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: 25 Jan 2000 22:17:18 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.64.132.97 X-Trace: bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net 948838638 5287 12.64.132.97 (25 Jan 2000 22:17:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jan 2000 22:17:18 GMT X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48752 Howard S Shubs wrote: >The Mac Plus can run up to ... well, heck: >http://www.info.apple.com/info.apple.com/applespec/applespec.taf?RID=4 >-- >Howard S Shubs hshubs@mindspring.com hshubs@bix.com >The Denim Adept Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger? >SPAM: uce@ftc.gov postmaster@[127.0.0.1] abuse@[127.0.0.1] Thanks for the excellent reference, that answered many of my questions about this system. I have a few more questions that I would like to pose however. 1) on the back of the system unit, and on the keyboard, there are roughly 3cm long slots marked with a "chain" graphic. If the slot was only on the system unit I would imagine this was for some sort of networking feature, but that wouldn't explain the slot on the keyboard. Can anybody supply me with a clue, because I certainly don't have one. Dowe Keller dowe@worldnet.att.net http://home.att.net/~dowe --- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- GSC d? s: a C++++ L * U++>++++ P++ L+++>++++ E- W++ N++ K++ w--- M- PS+++ PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+ R tv b++++ DI+ D+ G e+>++ h++ r@ y+ -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:26:57 -0600 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.33.4e X-Server-Date: 25 Jan 2000 22:26:58 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48765 In article , dowe@78.los-angeles-14.ca.dial-access.att.net (Dowe Keller) wrote: >1) on the back of the system unit, and on the keyboard, there are roughly >3cm long slots marked with a "chain" graphic. If the slot was only on the >system unit I would imagine this was for some sort of networking feature, >but that wouldn't explain the slot on the keyboard. Can anybody supply me >with a clue, because I certainly don't have one. Those are the places to hook up the Kensington anti-theft hardware. -- Howard S Shubs hshubs@mindspring.com hshubs@bix.com The Denim Adept Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger? SPAM: uce@ftc.gov postmaster@[127.0.0.1] abuse@[127.0.0.1] ###### From: "Paul R. Santa-Maria" Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: Message-ID: <01bf679d$4c6b73a0$84d88dce@paulrsm> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Lines: 40 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:36:31 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.141.216.132 X-Trace: nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech.net 948850591 206.141.216.132 (Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:36:31 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:36:31 CDT Organization: Ameritech.Net www.ameritech.net Complaints: abuse@ameritech.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!ameritech.net!nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48733 The Mac Plus has no factory-installed internal hard drive, so you will need an external SCSI hard drive. Also, the Mac Plus uses 800K floppy drives, and modern Macs cannot handle that format. If you wish, I can send you an 800K floppy disk with Mac Test that will test the motherboard and memory so you are sure you have a good system before spending any more money on it. My Mac Plus is using an Apple SC20 external 20MB hard drive with MacOS 6.0.8 minimal install. Paul R. Santa-Maria Ann Arbor, Michigan USA paulrsm@ameritech.net Dowe Keller wrote in article ... > Hello all, > > I've bought myself another obsolete micro, and would like to know some > info about it from the Macintrashers in the audience. > > 1) When did this particular toaster come out? > > 2) Can one still get Mac OS what_ever_it_is for this machine? > > The little beastie seems perfectly OK, except no boot diskette. > > Thank you, > > Dowe Keller dowe@worldnet.att.net http://home.att.net/~dowe > --- > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- > GSC d? s: a C++++ L * U++>++++ P++ L+++>++++ E- W++ N++ K++ w--- M- PS+++ PE++ > Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+ R tv b++++ DI+ D+ G e+>++ h++ r@ y+ > -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > > ###### From: brucehoult@pobox.com (Bruce Hoult) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:56:31 +1300 Organization: The Internet Group Ltd Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: macinnat.static.star.net.nz X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!brucehoult Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48739 In article , dowe@78.los-angeles-14.ca.dial-access.att.net (Dowe Keller) wrote: > Hello all, > > I've bought myself another obsolete micro, and would like to know some > info about it from the Macintrashers in the audience. > > 1) When did this particular toaster come out? Jan '86. > 2) Can one still get Mac OS what_ever_it_is for this machine? Any OS version up to 7.5.5 will work. You'll need a SCSI hard disk for anything after about 6.0.8 because they got too big for an 800K disk after that. You can download at least up to 7.01 for free from Apple's web site. -- Bruce ###### From: dowe@78.los-angeles-14.ca.dial-access.att.net (Dowe Keller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: 26 Jan 2000 02:45:16 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <01bf679d$4c6b73a0$84d88dce@paulrsm> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.64.132.97 X-Trace: bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net 948854716 13339 12.64.132.97 (26 Jan 2000 02:45:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Jan 2000 02:45:16 GMT X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48755 Paul R. Santa-Maria wrote: > >The Mac Plus has no factory-installed internal hard drive, so you will need >an external SCSI hard drive. Also, the Mac Plus uses 800K floppy drives, >and modern Macs cannot handle that format. > >If you wish, I can send you an 800K floppy disk with Mac Test that will >test the motherboard and memory so you are sure you have a good system >before spending any more money on it. > >My Mac Plus is using an Apple SC20 external 20MB hard drive with MacOS >6.0.8 minimal install. > >Paul R. Santa-Maria >Ann Arbor, Michigan USA >paulrsm@ameritech.net Thanks Paul, is there a way to send the disk image via email so that I could just dd if=disk.img of=/dev/fd0 them onto a diskette and pop them in the drive? I'd hate to ask someone to waist a stamp. My main problem is that I have no way of unpacking the *.bin files that Apple has on thier web site without a Mac, and I can't use my Mac (obviously) with out an OS. Thank You, Dowe Keller dowe@worldnet.att.net http://home.att.net/~dowe --- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- GSC d? s: a C++++ L * U++>++++ P++ L+++>++++ E- W++ N++ K++ w--- M- PS+++ PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+ R tv b++++ DI+ D+ G e+>++ h++ r@ y+ -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- ###### From: brucehoult@pobox.com (Bruce Hoult) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:25:07 +1300 Organization: The Internet Group Ltd Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <01bf679d$4c6b73a0$84d88dce@paulrsm> NNTP-Posting-Host: macinnat.static.star.net.nz X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!ihug.co.nz!brucehoult Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48740 In article , dowe@78.los-angeles-14.ca.dial-access.att.net (Dowe Keller) wrote: > Thanks Paul, is there a way to send the disk image via email so that I > could just dd if=disk.img of=/dev/fd0 them onto a diskette and pop them > in the drive? I'd hate to ask someone to waist a stamp. My main problem > is that I have no way of unpacking the *.bin files that Apple has on thier > web site without a Mac, and I can't use my Mac (obviously) with out an OS. Your Unix machine is *most* unlikely to have a drive capable of read or writing Apple's old 800 KB variable-speed disk format. And the Mac Plus can't use the 720 KB format that your machine probably *can* do. The model after the Mac plus, the Mac SE, can use 1440 KB disks (or at least the later ones can), as can the Mac IIx, IIcx, IIci, IIfx and all later models. -- Bruce ###### From: dowe@78.los-angeles-14.ca.dial-access.att.net (Dowe Keller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: 26 Jan 2000 03:32:55 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <01bf679d$4c6b73a0$84d88dce@paulrsm> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.64.132.97 X-Trace: bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net 948857575 25593 12.64.132.97 (26 Jan 2000 03:32:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Jan 2000 03:32:55 GMT X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48754 On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:25:07 +1300, Bruce Hoult wrote: >In article , >dowe@78.los-angeles-14.ca.dial-access.att.net (Dowe Keller) wrote: > >> Thanks Paul, is there a way to send the disk image via email so that I >> could just dd if=disk.img of=/dev/fd0 them onto a diskette and pop them >> in the drive? I'd hate to ask someone to waist a stamp. My main problem >> is that I have no way of unpacking the *.bin files that Apple has on thier >> web site without a Mac, and I can't use my Mac (obviously) with out an OS. > >Your Unix machine is *most* unlikely to have a drive capable of read or >writing Apple's old 800 KB variable-speed disk format. And the Mac Plus >can't use the 720 KB format that your machine probably *can* do. > >The model after the Mac plus, the Mac SE, can use 1440 KB disks (or at >least the later ones can), as can the Mac IIx, IIcx, IIci, IIfx and all >later models. > >-- Bruce Yea, I've pretty mutch resigned myself to having to find somebody around here with a Mac that either runs OS 6 or who can download it and create the necisary boot diskettes for me, but the kid in me wants to play with my new toy *NOW*!!! I guess throwing a temper tantrum wont change disk formats though :-( but the little bugger's just too cute to not want to play with. Thanks to everyone who helped me out, Dowe Keller dowe@worldnet.att.net http://home.att.net/~dowe --- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK---- GSC d? s: a C++++ L * U++>++++ P++ L+++>++++ E- W++ N++ K++ w--- M- PS+++ PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X+ R tv b++++ DI+ D+ G e+>++ h++ r@ y+ -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- ###### From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: 25 Jan 2000 22:05:53 -0800 Lines: 19 Message-ID: <86m2s1$2e5b@edrn.newsguy.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-029.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48729 In article , Howard says... > >In article , >dowe@78.los-angeles-14.ca.dial-access.att.net (Dowe Keller) wrote: > >>1) on the back of the system unit, and on the keyboard, there are roughly >>3cm long slots marked with a "chain" graphic. If the slot was only on the >>system unit I would imagine this was for some sort of networking feature, >>but that wouldn't explain the slot on the keyboard. Can anybody supply me >>with a clue, because I certainly don't have one. > >Those are the places to hook up the Kensington anti-theft hardware. Just to be a bit pedantic (that's what this group is for, isn't it?) that is the slot for the Apple Security Kit. It was originally a product supplied solely by Apple, and only available through authorized Apple dealers, until Apple realized it wasn't selling very well and farmed it out to Kensington for wider distribution. ###### From: blackm00@cam.org (Michael Black) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:15:25 -0500 Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada Lines: 58 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-21.hip.cam.org Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.tli.de!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!198.168.100.2!altitude!dialup-21.hip.cam.org!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48761 In article , brucehoult@pobox.com (Bruce Hoult) wrote: > In article , > dowe@78.los-angeles-14.ca.dial-access.att.net (Dowe Keller) wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > I've bought myself another obsolete micro, and would like to know some > > info about it from the Macintrashers in the audience. > > > > 1) When did this particular toaster come out? > > Jan '86. > > > > 2) Can one still get Mac OS what_ever_it_is for this machine? > > Any OS version up to 7.5.5 will work. You'll need a SCSI hard disk for > anything after about 6.0.8 because they got too big for an 800K disk after > that. > > You can download at least up to 7.01 for free from Apple's web site. > > -- Bruce Unless someone needs something in a later version of the operating system, probably a matter of application software that won't run on earlier versions, it probably is better to stay with an earlier version of the OS on a Mac Plus. I was using a Mac Plus up until mid-1998 and I seem to recall trying a 7 and it slowed things down noticeably. I was using a low 6 for a long time, but moved up to a 6.0.8 towards the end because something I was running needed it. Of course, I stayed with Word 3 which I found at a garage sale shortly after I got the Mac Plus in 1993. I ended up with later versions, but they too were noticeably slower, and I sure didn't need the features. To run a PPP connection, you need the later OS and even then I think osme of the internet software won't run on a 68000 machine. There are some FAQs around, I don't have the URLs handy but maybe I'll dig for them tomorrow, about 68000 Macs and one on using it on the internet. There are also plenty of websites devoted to the machine. You can find a fair amount of older software for it, probably not quite legal, if you do some searching. But if you can't put the Mac on the internet, getting that software into it will also mean finding someone who can put it on disks. I was using a shell account, and terminal software that I bought when you could find shareware software all over the place. If the Mac Plus is working, be sure to not cover the top. The thing can get terribly hot. I hada small muffin fan that I placed 9and held in place with double sided tape) over the handle to suck out air. That really cooled things down. Michael ###### From: Jos Dreesen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:30:40 +0100 Organization: Philips Semiconductors Lines: 27 Message-ID: <388EA2A0.8372052D@philips.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: dibbs3.eur.cis.philips.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dibbs3.eur.cis.philips.com 948871842 6929 130.139.33.70 (26 Jan 2000 07:30:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@dibbs3.eur.cis.philips.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Jan 2000 07:30:42 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/804) X-Accept-Language: en Cache-Post-Path: dibbs3.eur.cis.philips.com!dreesen@fashpt0.zrh.sc.philips.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed1.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!news.eur.cis.philips.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48721 Dowe Keller wrote: > > Hello all, > > I've bought myself another obsolete micro, and would like to know some > info about it from the Macintrashers in the audience. > I have also a problem with 2 Plusses given to me... After resoldering two cold joints in the video circuitry they both boot up,the SC20 also given to me however has booted exactly once.. After that it gave out an errorcode 4, and every reboot since then resulted in the Mac not recognising it and the the HD led just slowly blinking. Does this represent any particular errorcode ? ( SCSI address, cable and termination should be OK) If the HD is gone then I'am also stuck with the problem of getting bootdisks in this &%^$@ 800K format.... Regards, Jos Dreesen Jos Dreesen Email jos.dreesen@philips.com Philips Semiconductors Tel + 41 1 465 11 62 Fax + 41 1 465 18 06 CH-8045 Zurich Private : tel/fax + 41 1 725 34 65 ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:38:56 -0600 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <388EA2A0.8372052D@philips.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.33.16 X-Server-Date: 26 Jan 2000 19:38:57 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-kar1.dfn.de!newsfeed.rhein-neckar.de!news.rhein-neckar.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48804 In article <388EA2A0.8372052D@philips.com>, Jos Dreesen wrote: >If the HD is gone then I'am also stuck with the problem of getting bootdisks >in >this &%^$@ 800K format.... That an SC20 or HD20 would last anywhere near this long is something I find nothing short of amazing. The possability that it might die now is something I find not at all surprising. Those things are well over 10 years old! A disk drive which lasts over 5 years is gonna die at any moment, in my experience. Send me a postal address in the USA via e-mail and I'll see what I can do for you. -- Howard S Shubs hshubs@mindspring.com hshubs@bix.com The Denim Adept Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger? SPAM: uce@ftc.gov postmaster@[127.0.0.1] abuse@[127.0.0.1] ###### From: jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: 26 Jan 2000 21:38:13 GMT Organization: The University of Iowa Lines: 19 Message-ID: <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu X-Trace: flood.weeg.uiowa.edu 948922693 12720 128.255.28.3 (26 Jan 2000 21:38:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.uiowa.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Jan 2000 21:38:13 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.flash.net!marge.eaglequest.com!ord-feed.news.verio.net!news.uiowa.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48781 From article , by Howard S Shubs : > > That an SC20 or HD20 would last anywhere near this long is something I find > nothing short of amazing. The possability that it might die now is something > I find not at all surprising. Those things are well over 10 years old! A > disk drive which lasts over 5 years is gonna die at any moment, in my > experience. I've got several Mac SEs at home running on their original 20 meg hard drives. I'm using an IBM RT right now that was delivered to campus in the fall of 1988, and has been spinning its disk continuously since then, except for an occasional power failure, fan failures, and a board swaps done when the video board stopped giving any green output. I've seen plenty of other disks last that long. 1980's technology is, in my experience, pretty reliable. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus References: <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, NY From: aje9383@osfmail.isc.rit.edu (Andrew Erickson) NNTP-Posting-Host: grace.isc.rit.edu X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: grace.isc.rit.edu Message-ID: <388f81c6@news.isc.rit.edu> Date: 26 Jan 2000 18:22:46 -0500 X-Trace: 26 Jan 2000 18:22:46 -0500, grace.isc.rit.edu Lines: 25 XPident: aje9383 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.21.4.100 XPident: Unknown Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!verio!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!news.lightning.net!dilbert.ic.sunysb.edu!news-nysernet-16.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.isc.rit.edu!aje9383 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48813 In article <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879 wrote: > >I've got several Mac SEs at home running on their original 20 meg hard >drives. Mine used to have one of those drives, before I upgraded to an 80MB one which I was able to get at a good price. I'm not really sure the 20 MB hard drives are actually all that reliable; they're actually Miniscribe drives, and use what appears to be an ordinary stepper motor for moving the heads, with a photo-interruptor (also external) to position them at track zero. You can actually see the thing turn when it seeks; I think the worst-case seek time was, according to some SCSI utility, about 140 ms. I actually noticed a significant speed increase when I upgraded to the newer drive (a Quantum LPS mechanism). I don't recall the Miniscribe mechanims being unusually reliable. > 1980's technology is, in my experience, pretty reliable. At least, the subset still working is reliable. The things which broke years ago and are now forgotten weren't quite so reliable.... -- Andrew Erickson ###### From: greg@apple2.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Organization: II Infinitum References: User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: &@UA7$)=n9C7!qu%-5s},3tR@NEy+B>8PW"^,8?A>%."0{J2c1Yr]NKw';5/( J\r@/{UADjCdE~iRnOEOfbre(/1Y=$TS3Wt7B`a4sz, Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:05:29 CST X-Trace: sv2-mG78T/ZL50V0PerxoRH39C4KqhaQFyyZ+7wc2oT+1PeQCqpKS0/CkdnTiSxOuY94EMUHkf1vay3rAVo!IXZwbt3x+o8O8GAE+8gnBF1fTw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:04:53 -0600 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp2.giganews.com!news4.giganews.com.POSTED!greg Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48838 In article , brucehoult@pobox.com (Bruce Hoult) wrote: >dowe@78.los-angeles-14.ca.dial-access.att.net (Dowe Keller) wrote: >> 2) Can one still get Mac OS what_ever_it_is for this machine? > Any OS version up to 7.5.5 will work. Are you sure? The Macintosh Plus has a very low maximum memory limit. It maxes out at 4 MB of RAM. -- -- --- -- -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- -- --- --- ###### From: greg@apple2.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Organization: II Infinitum References: <388EA2A0.8372052D@philips.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: &@UA7$)=n9C7!qu%-5s},3tR@NEy+B>8PW"^,8?A>%."0{J2c1Yr]NKw';5/( J\r@/{UADjCdE~iRnOEOfbre(/1Y=$TS3Wt7B`a4sz, Lines: 40 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:22:03 CST X-Trace: sv2-A5gmPbDoMMCWOyep8a+XtvwjA4LA9064wGHSbHFrgFp+DNNXfbjDVtLx76+Yt6ch9uEhqPStA2A/JMH!nsYfRYVLbxqZ/efYCbJCryEAow== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:21:28 -0600 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp2.giganews.com!news4.giganews.com.POSTED!greg Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48839 In article <388EA2A0.8372052D@philips.com>, Jos Dreesen wrote: >dowe@78.los-angeles-14.ca.dial-access.att.net (Dowe Keller) wrote: >> I've bought myself another obsolete micro, and would like to know some >> info about it from the Macintrashers in the audience. > I have also a problem with 2 Plusses given to me... > After resoldering two cold joints in the video circuitry Occasionally mine loses video and I have to beat up on it hard for it to come back. > they both boot up,the SC20 also given to me however has booted > exactly once.. After that it gave out an errorcode 4, and every > reboot since then resulted in the Mac not recognising it and the the > HD led just slowly blinking. Does this represent any particular > errorcode ? I don't know about the errorcode, but I had two 40 MB drives hooked up to my Macintosh Plus. After being off for a long period of time, it failed to recognize the boot volume. I ended up unhooking it from the system, booting off 800 KB disk, and the other drive not yet reformatted for booting. About a week later I started it up again, and the second drive had stopped working. I'm suspecting the Macintosh Plus wasn't parking the heads properly and they've crashed into the disk. So I recommend if you hook up another SCSI drive to the system, to never turn off the hard drive, even after shutting down properly. In case you're wondering, I bought it so I could experience net booting over AppleTalk on my Apple IIgs again (which has neither hard drive nor SCSI card). -- -- --- -- -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- -- --- --- ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:19:07 -0600 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.38.18 X-Server-Date: 27 Jan 2000 01:19:08 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48855 In article <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) wrote: >I've got several Mac SEs at home running on their original 20 meg hard >drives. I'm using an IBM RT right now that was delivered to campus in >the fall of 1988, and has been spinning its disk continuously since then, >except for an occasional power failure, fan failures, and a board swaps >done when the video board stopped giving any green output. I've seen >plenty of other disks last that long. 1980's technology is, in my >experience, pretty reliable. I hope you have good backups of those disks. You must have forgotten the sticktion and other problems disks had back then. -- Howard S Shubs hshubs@mindspring.com hshubs@bix.com The Denim Adept Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger? SPAM: uce@ftc.gov postmaster@[127.0.0.1] abuse@[127.0.0.1] ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:21:07 -0600 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.38.18 X-Server-Date: 27 Jan 2000 01:21:07 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48852 In article , greg@apple2.com wrote: >Are you sure? The Macintosh Plus has a very low maximum memory limit. >It maxes out at 4 MB of RAM. Yes, the Mac Plus is supposed to work up through 7.5.5. It's on the spec sheet. -- Howard S Shubs hshubs@mindspring.com hshubs@bix.com The Denim Adept Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger? SPAM: uce@ftc.gov postmaster@[127.0.0.1] abuse@[127.0.0.1] ###### From: brucehoult@pobox.com (Bruce Hoult) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:19:08 +1300 Organization: The Internet Group Ltd Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: macinnat.static.star.net.nz X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!ihug.co.nz!brucehoult Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48836 In article , greg@apple2.com wrote: > In article , > brucehoult@pobox.com (Bruce Hoult) wrote: > >dowe@78.los-angeles-14.ca.dial-access.att.net (Dowe Keller) wrote: > > >> 2) Can one still get Mac OS what_ever_it_is for this machine? > > > Any OS version up to 7.5.5 will work. > > Are you sure? The Macintosh Plus has a very low maximum memory limit. > It maxes out at 4 MB of RAM. Yeah, well it might not have much left after booting :-) I'd certainly run at least 7.01 on a Mac Plus, though. I find that although some things are a bit slower drawing than in 6.08 but things such as the better keyboard navigation in the Finder and other places more than makes up for it. -- Bruce ###### From: Jos Dreesen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:31:26 +0100 Organization: Philips Semiconductors Lines: 36 Message-ID: <388FF44E.C0C5D6EC@philips.com> References: <388EA2A0.8372052D@philips.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dibbs3.eur.cis.philips.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dibbs3.eur.cis.philips.com 948958287 4922 130.139.33.70 (27 Jan 2000 07:31:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@dibbs3.eur.cis.philips.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jan 2000 07:31:27 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/804) X-Accept-Language: en Cache-Post-Path: dibbs3.eur.cis.philips.com!dreesen@fashpr0.zrh.sc.philips.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed1.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!news.eur.cis.philips.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48815 Howard S Shubs wrote: > > In article <388EA2A0.8372052D@philips.com>, Jos Dreesen > wrote: > > >If the HD is gone then I'am also stuck with the problem of getting bootdisks > >in > >this &%^$@ 800K format.... > > That an SC20 or HD20 would last anywhere near this long is something I find > nothing short of amazing. The possability that it might die now is something > I find not at all surprising. Those things are well over 10 years old! A > disk drive which lasts over 5 years is gonna die at any moment, in my > experience. > The harddisk is, at least in my case, a seagate ST225N, which is a rather good drive. I've had several examples, albeit with MFM iso SCSI, in equally old PC's that still last. No optical interrupters, very clean & simple mechanics inside. > Send me a postal address in the USA via e-mail and I'll see what I can do for > you. I'm afraid that i don't have that. But thanks for your kind offer anyway... I will ask around in the local Mac usergroups. Mac were also quit successfull in Europe... -- Best regards, Jos Dreesen Jos Dreesen Email jos.dreesen@philips.com Philips Semiconductors Tel + 41 1 465 11 62 Fax + 41 1 465 18 06 CH-8045 Zurich Private : tel/fax + 41 1 725 34 65 ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus References: <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> Organization: Daedalus Consulting From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Message-ID: <948964788.445052@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Cache-Post-Path: shelley.paradise.net.nz!unknown@203-96-144-16.cable.paradise.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 28 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:20:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.152.26 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 948964829 203.96.152.26 (Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:20:29 NZDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:20:29 NZDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!don Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48843 In article , Howard S Shubs wrote: >I hope you have good backups of those disks. You must have forgotten the >sticktion and other problems disks had back then. *Some* disks had back then. The Seagate ST-225 20MB half-height 5.25" drive was the most notorious example, but there were others. That said, I picked up a secondhand 1987 model DECmate III+ with an ST-225 (RD31 in DEC parlance) in it, in 1990 or thereabouts. I used it as a terminal, and it ran more or less nonstop until a couple of years ago when I needed the desk space for something that could manage better than one 80x24 (or 132x24) text screen... It did have a problem (which it had from before I had it) that the disk wouldn't work until it had warmed up -- it would fire up, try to boot, bang the disk a bit, and sulk. Leave it fifteen minutes and power cycle it, and it would boot up just fine. Most ST-225 stiction problems I heard about were cured by hitting the drive, but this one seems different -- hitting the machine seemed to have no effect whatsoever. I'm nearly certain that if I dug the machine out now and did the fifteen minute thing again, it would work fine. Anyway, I'm sure I'm not the only one with mid-80s era hard disks lasting well into the age of cheap multi-gigabyte 3.25" disks... -- don ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:02:56 -0600 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <948964788.445052@shelley.paradise.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.39.0a X-Server-Date: 27 Jan 2000 19:02:57 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!ayres.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48902 In article <948964788.445052@shelley.paradise.net.nz>, don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) wrote: >Anyway, I'm sure I'm not the only one with mid-80s era hard disks >lasting well into the age of cheap multi-gigabyte 3.25" disks... I dare say you're working with the far right-hand part of the bell curve here. I still hope you have good backups. -- Howard S Shubs hshubs@mindspring.com hshubs@bix.com The Denim Adept Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger? SPAM: uce@ftc.gov postmaster@[127.0.0.1] abuse@[127.0.0.1] ###### From: mwandel@nortel.ca (Markus Wandel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: 28 Jan 2000 18:45:07 GMT Organization: Nortel Lines: 21 Message-ID: <86so3j$79o$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> References: <388EA2A0.8372052D@philips.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: wcars0mc.ca.nortel.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!logbridge.uoregon.edu!!nrchh45.us.nortel.com!zcarh46f.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.ca.nortel.com!bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48885 In article <388EA2A0.8372052D@philips.com>, Jos Dreesen wrote: >After resoldering two cold joints in the video circuitry they both boot up,the >SC20 also given to me however has booted exactly once.. >After that it gave out an errorcode 4, and every reboot since then resulted in >the Mac not recognising it and the the HD led just slowly blinking. I don't know about the error code, but *if* this is stiction one thing that could well unstick it is powering it up, lifiting it up and giving it a sharp twist about the axis that the disk spins on. Hopefully the inertia of the disk platters is enough to unstick them. You can tell you've been successful if you hear it spinning up. Having said that I once had a Sony 40MB 3.5" disk that had been used with a Mac that would get stuck so hard that it was necessary to unscrew the circuit board and manually turn the flywheel/rotor thingy. A surprising amount of torque was necessary. If I then reassembled it and got it powered up in the next half hour or so it would spin and work. Markus ###### From: hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: 28 Jan 2000 15:35:44 -0600 Organization: House of Hawkins Lines: 26 Message-ID: <86t23g$ct1$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> References: <388EA2A0.8372052D@philips.com> <86so3j$79o$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hawkins.cba.uni.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!portc05.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uni.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49094 In article <86so3j$79o$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com>, Markus Wandel wrote: >Having said that I once had a Sony 40MB 3.5" disk that had been used with a >Mac that would get stuck so hard that it was necessary to unscrew the circuit >board and manually turn the flywheel/rotor thingy. A surprising amount of >torque was necessary. If I then reassembled it and got it powered up in the >next half hour or so it would spin and work. In graduate school, the student computer in a friend's office was a former server which had developed a problem. Specifically, a bad disk problem. It had a sign warning not to power it off at any time for any reason. They didn't just need to manually unstick it to boot it up. They had to apply the spin to get it going . . . They weren't amused at my suggestion of a pull cord . . . [hey, if I can't have toggle switches on the front pannel, I want a pull cord . . .] -- Prof. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu (319) 266-7114 http://eyry.econ.iastate.edu/hawk These opinions will not be those of UNI until it pays my retainer. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus References: <948964788.445052@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Organization: Daedalus Consulting From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Message-ID: <949103825.813823@shelley.paradise.net.nz> Cache-Post-Path: shelley.paradise.net.nz!unknown@203-96-144-16.cable.paradise.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 30 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:57:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.152.26 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 949103866 203.96.152.26 (Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:57:46 NZDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:57:46 NZDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!don Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49217 Howard S Shubs wrote: >don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) wrote: > >>Anyway, I'm sure I'm not the only one with mid-80s era hard disks >>lasting well into the age of cheap multi-gigabyte 3.25" disks... > >I dare say you're working with the far right-hand part of the bell curve here. >I still hope you have good backups. That isn't the point. You said that old disks suffer certain specific problems that shorten their life, when in fact a good number of models don't. Consequently, they last until normal wear finally pushes the things over the edge, or a sub-standard part gives up the ghost. Mostly, sub-standard parts die early, so you get the bathtub curve with high infant mortality due to dicey parts early in the life. If a drive survives the first year or two the chances are it will reach the end of its life due to simple wear rather faulty parts. True, some drives have bad wear points -- the dreaded Micropolis 1325(?) for example had an on-the-edge design that brought the far end of bathtub rather closer than most of its contemporaries, much to the annoyance of those running the squillions of MicroVAX IIs that shipped with these drives (aka the RD53). But overall, a 1987 drive that worked in 1992 has a surprisingly good chance of working now if it's been looked after, since by that date the faulty drives made at the time will have already failed. -- don ###### From: Ian Stirling Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:28:14 GMT Message-ID: <949116494.24748.0.nnrp-14.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> References: <388EA2A0.8372052D@philips.com> <86so3j$79o$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 949116494 nnrp-14:24748 NO-IDENT mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980818 ("Laura") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.13 (i686)) Originator: root@mauve.demon.co.uk Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mauve.demon.co.uk!root Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49302 Markus Wandel wrote: >In article <388EA2A0.8372052D@philips.com>, >Jos Dreesen wrote: >>After resoldering two cold joints in the video circuitry they both boot up,the >>SC20 also given to me however has booted exactly once.. >>After that it gave out an errorcode 4, and every reboot since then resulted in >>the Mac not recognising it and the the HD led just slowly blinking. >I don't know about the error code, but *if* this is stiction one thing that >could well unstick it is powering it up, lifiting it up and giving it a sharp >twist about the axis that the disk spins on. Hopefully the inertia of the >disk platters is enough to unstick them. You can tell you've been successful >if you hear it spinning up. Having suffered from this problem in the past, connect the power connector. Now, with thumb on one side of the drive, and fingers on the other, the axis pointing as well as you can make it into your wrist, rapidly rotate it back and forward. -- http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling. ---------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------- Prosperity and ruin issue from the power of the tongue. Therefore, guard yourself against thoughtless speech. ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:38:09 -0700 Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <948964788.445052@shelley.paradise.net.nz> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.137.74 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.137.74 X-Trace: 28 Jan 2000 20:38:24 -0700, 207.148.137.74 Lines: 39 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.50.1.43 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.cadvision.com!news.cadvision.com!207.148.137.74 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49273 On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:20:29 GMT, don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) wrote: >In article , >Howard S Shubs wrote: >>I hope you have good backups of those disks. You must have forgotten the >>sticktion and other problems disks had back then. > >*Some* disks had back then. The Seagate ST-225 20MB half-height 5.25" >drive was the most notorious example, but there were others. > >That said, I picked up a secondhand 1987 model DECmate III+ with an >ST-225 (RD31 in DEC parlance) in it, in 1990 or thereabouts. I used it >as a terminal, and it ran more or less nonstop until a couple of years >ago when I needed the desk space for something that could manage better >than one 80x24 (or 132x24) text screen... > >It did have a problem (which it had from before I had it) that the disk >wouldn't work until it had warmed up -- it would fire up, try to boot, >bang the disk a bit, and sulk. Leave it fifteen minutes and power cycle >it, and it would boot up just fine. Most ST-225 stiction problems I >heard about were cured by hitting the drive, but this one seems >different -- hitting the machine seemed to have no effect whatsoever. > >I'm nearly certain that if I dug the machine out now and did the fifteen >minute thing again, it would work fine. > >Anyway, I'm sure I'm not the only one with mid-80s era hard disks >lasting well into the age of cheap multi-gigabyte 3.25" disks... > >-- don My daughter's still using my old Tandy 1000A with ST-225 (~CAD$300 in 1983/4), DOS 3.2. Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian_Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) use address above to reply ###### From: Dave Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: 29 Jan 2000 16:27:18 -0600 Organization: Hey Pal - Organize This! Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <948964788.445052@shelley.paradise.net.nz> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49173 On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:20:29 GMT, don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) wrote: >It did have a problem (which it had from before I had it) that the disk >wouldn't work until it had warmed up -- it would fire up, try to boot, >bang the disk a bit, and sulk. Leave it fifteen minutes and power cycle >it, and it would boot up just fine. Most ST-225 stiction problems I >heard about were cured by hitting the drive, but this one seems >different -- hitting the machine seemed to have no effect whatsoever. That drive probably just needs to be low level formatted. I remember having to do that every year or 2 on ST-225's. Same symptoms, and all would be fine after the re-format. Dave ###### From: simotit@evitech.fi (Simo Tuominen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 06:10:17 GMT Organization: Not likely. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <3892e77b.55704272@news.edu.sollentuna.se> References: <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <948964788.445052@shelley.paradise.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: aqua00.edu2.evitech.fi X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news.algonet.se!algonet!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.bahnhof.se!news.defero.net!news.bbnetworks.net!learnet.freenet.hut.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49231 On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:02:56 -0600, Howard S Shubs wrote: >In article <948964788.445052@shelley.paradise.net.nz>, >don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) wrote: > >>Anyway, I'm sure I'm not the only one with mid-80s era hard disks >>lasting well into the age of cheap multi-gigabyte 3.25" disks... > >I dare say you're working with the far right-hand part of the bell curve here. >I still hope you have good backups. ITYM bath-tub curve, and HM 3.5". ###### From: Howard S Shubs Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:39:39 -0600 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <948964788.445052@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <3892e77b.55704272@news.edu.sollentuna.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.3a.a3 X-Server-Date: 31 Jan 2000 06:39:21 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49318 In article <3892e77b.55704272@news.edu.sollentuna.se>, simotit@evitech.fi (Simo Tuominen) wrote: >ITYM bath-tub curve, and HM 3.5" No to the first part, and I don't know what the second part means. Bell curve, not bath-tub curve. The bath tub curve describes the number of problems a specific device gives, on average, during its life time. OTOH, for any set of devices, a few will fail after a short life, most will live to a median, and a few will live a long long life. That's a bell curve. -- Howard S Shubs hshubs@mindspring.com hshubs@bix.com The Denim Adept Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger? SPAM: uce@ftc.gov postmaster@[127.0.0.1] abuse@[127.0.0.1] ###### From: benh@lsl.co.uk (Ben Hutchings) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: 31 Jan 2000 12:41:40 GMT Organization: Laser-Scan Ltd. Lines: 29 Message-ID: <873vu4$gtc$2@relay.lsl.co.uk> References: <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <948964788.445052@shelley.paradise.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.9.200.129 X-Server-Date: 31 Jan 2000 12:41:40 GMT X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!warm.news.pipex.net!pipex!fuse.lsl.co.uk!benh Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49002 Dave (Nunya@Business.net) wrote: : On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:20:29 GMT, don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) : wrote: : >It did have a problem (which it had from before I had it) that the disk : >wouldn't work until it had warmed up -- it would fire up, try to boot, : >bang the disk a bit, and sulk. Leave it fifteen minutes and power cycle : >it, and it would boot up just fine. Most ST-225 stiction problems I : >heard about were cured by hitting the drive, but this one seems : >different -- hitting the machine seemed to have no effect whatsoever. : That drive probably just needs to be low level formatted. I remember : having to do that every year or 2 on ST-225's. Same symptoms, and all : would be fine after the re-format. My father's first PC had an ST-225 in it, which developed this problem after less than a year. In a way, this was a good thing, since it provided an opportunity to create *sub-directories* when re-installing stuff! After about 2 years, there came a day when it wouldn't start at all. That may have been due to stiction or actual failure; we never not aware of stiction and the manufacturer's technical support person didn't mention this possibility. So that got replaced with an ST-251, which ran for 5 years with no problems. Another ST-225 I've encountered was installed in an IBM PC-XT, which I would guess dates from the mid 1980s and was still working in 1998. -- Any opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of Laser-Scan. ###### From: Dave Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: 31 Jan 2000 22:57:31 -0600 Organization: Disorganization, Inc. Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <948964788.445052@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <873vu4$gtc$2@relay.lsl.co.uk> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone1.usenetserver.com!cyclone1.usenetserver.com!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49267 In article <873vu4$gtc$2@relay.lsl.co.uk>, benh@lsl.co.uk (Ben Hutchings) wrote: > Another ST-225 I've encountered was installed in an IBM PC-XT, which > I would guess dates from the mid 1980s and was still working in 1998. I've still got a working (well, the last time I checked, anyway!) ST-225 in the closet - along with several other MFM drives in the 40 -80 meg range. I've got a ST-4096 in a Tandy 6000 Xenix machine that still works, and an ST-251 in a TRS-80 Model 1! I think you could probably store all the software ever written for a TRS-80 on a 40 meg drive. :-) Dave ###### From: blackm00@cam.org (Michael Black) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 13:33:51 -0500 Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada Lines: 43 Message-ID: References: <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <948964788.445052@shelley.paradise.net.nz> <873vu4$gtc$2@relay.lsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-7.hip.cam.org Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.cwix.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!198.168.100.2!altitude!dialup-7.hip.cam.org!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49265 In article , Dave wrote: > In article <873vu4$gtc$2@relay.lsl.co.uk>, benh@lsl.co.uk (Ben > Hutchings) wrote: > > > > Another ST-225 I've encountered was installed in an IBM PC-XT, which > > I would guess dates from the mid 1980s and was still working in 1998. > > I've still got a working (well, the last time I checked, anyway!) ST-225 > in the closet - along with several other MFM drives in the 40 -80 meg > range. I've got a ST-4096 in a Tandy 6000 Xenix machine that still > works, and an ST-251 in a TRS-80 Model 1! > > I think you could probably store all the software ever written for a > TRS-80 on a 40 meg drive. :-) > > Dave Towards the end of when I was actively using it, I added a 720K 3.5" drive to my Radio Shack Color Computer III, which I mainly ran OS9 on. I found I could put everything I needed -- operating system, text editor, text formatter, spell checker, BASIC09, and assembler -- on one disk, using the other drive for text files. The idea of a 10meg drive boggled my mind. When I switched from that CoCo to a Mac Plus in late 1993, I had a better processor and twice as much memory, yet the resources were used to run basic elements. I couldn't run the Mac with the single built in disk drive, so I was forced to buy my first hard drive (being Macs, a second floppy would have been a significant percentage of a hard drive, and I doubt using two floppies would have been enough for a Mac Plus). Of course, that hard drive for the Mac Plus was all of 80megs, and it took a long time to fill up, mainly with junk and text files. I'm using a Mac LC these days, and it came with a 40meg drive and it works fine. ANd the march of computers has moved forward, and 40 and 80 meg drives are considered useless. Michael ###### From: dr.ido@innocent.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Organization: yeah, right! :) Reply-To: dr.ido@innocent.com Message-ID: <389828b6.25575856@news.bcandid.deja.com> References: <388EA2A0.8372052D@philips.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Host: (protected and logged) X-Trace: 2-0014a8f6924c9e426ed0f281875b6f1a9e5210d7e0bd48a8b52a NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 08:40:29 EST Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 12:57:50 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!feeder.qis.net!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!gw12.bcandid.com.MISMATCH!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!cyc12.deja.bcandid.com!typ12.deja.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49176 On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:30:40 +0100, Jos Dreesen wrote: >Dowe Keller wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> I've bought myself another obsolete micro, and would like to know some >> info about it from the Macintrashers in the audience. >> > >I have also a problem with 2 Plusses given to me... >After resoldering two cold joints in the video circuitry they both boot up,the >SC20 also given to me however has booted exactly once.. >After that it gave out an errorcode 4, and every reboot since then resulted in >the Mac not recognising it and the the HD led just slowly blinking. >Does this represent any particular errorcode ? >( SCSI address, cable and termination should be OK) > >If the HD is gone then I'am also stuck with the problem of getting bootdisks in >this &%^$@ 800K format.... > I don't know how good memory is, but didn't the SC20 have a miniscribe 8425? I've dealt with many of those drives in both their SCSI and ST506 incarnations. They can be prone to stichtion (sp?) and will startup if prodded in the right place ###### From: dr.ido@innocent.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Organization: yeah, right! :) Reply-To: dr.ido@innocent.com Message-ID: <38982b0e.26176479@news.bcandid.deja.com> References: <86npg5$cdg$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: (protected and logged) X-Trace: 2-0014a8f6924c9e426ed0f281875b6f1a9e5210d7e0bd48a8b52a NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 08:48:40 EST Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 13:06:02 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!netnews.com!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!cyc12.deja.bcandid.com!typ12.deja.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49191 On 26 Jan 2000 21:38:13 GMT, jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) wrote: >From article , >by Howard S Shubs : >> >> That an SC20 or HD20 would last anywhere near this long is something I find >> nothing short of amazing. The possability that it might die now is something >> I find not at all surprising. Those things are well over 10 years old! A >> disk drive which lasts over 5 years is gonna die at any moment, in my >> experience. > >I've got several Mac SEs at home running on their original 20 meg hard >drives. I'm using an IBM RT right now that was delivered to campus in >the fall of 1988, and has been spinning its disk continuously since then, >except for an occasional power failure, fan failures, and a board swaps >done when the video board stopped giving any green output. I've seen >plenty of other disks last that long. 1980's technology is, in my >experience, pretty reliable. I had an IBM XT with it's original ST412 (full height 10.5Mb MFM HDD) running up until mid 1998. The machine was then retired, but still booted last time I checked it (mid 1999) and showed no bad sectors according to NDD. I've got some ST506s around here somewhere (an earlier 5Mb drive), but they haven't been tested in a while.. ###### From: paul@shippo.virgin.net (Paul Grayson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:17:45 +0000 Organization: Virgin Net Usenet Service Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <388EA2A0.8372052D@philips.com> Reply-To: paul.grayson@virgin.net NNTP-Posting-Host: p-113-virgin2.tch.virgin.net X-Trace: nclient15-gui.server.virgin.net 949507940 5839 212.250.195.188 (2 Feb 2000 16:12:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@virgin.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Feb 2000 16:12:20 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.7 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!paul Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49271 On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:38:56 -0600, Howard S Shubs muttered: >That an SC20 or HD20 would last anywhere near this long is something I find >nothing short of amazing. The possability that it might die now is something >I find not at all surprising. Those things are well over 10 years old! A >disk drive which lasts over 5 years is gonna die at any moment, in my >experience. > Particularly if it is running upside down on a bench with the PC exposed, and you drop a pocket multiple spanner on top of the drive from about a foot above. Although there is no visible damage to the drive itself, fsck generated a lot of seek errors. I think I need a new drive. -- Paul Grayson, Ripon, North Yorkshire, UK. Bill Gates - makes Jeffrey Archer look like an honest man. ###### From: Juergen Nickelsen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Date: 14 Feb 2000 00:54:24 +0100 Organization: [Posted via] Interactive Networx Lines: 24 Sender: nickel@goting.jn.berlin.snafu.de Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ip190.berlin64.pub-ip.de.psi.net X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!goting.jn.berlin.snafu.de!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49855 Howard S Shubs writes: > In article , > greg@apple2.com wrote: > > >Are you sure? The Macintosh Plus has a very low maximum memory > >limit. It maxes out at 4 MB of RAM. > > Yes, the Mac Plus is supposed to work up through 7.5.5. It's on > the spec sheet. Yes, you can run 7.5.5 (even 7.6) in 4 MB RAM. You just don't want to. There is extremely little space for applications, and you can't use most of the nicer festures of this version anyway. 7.6.1, while faster than 7.5.5, crawls on my Classic II, which is much faster than the Plus. 7.1 runs fine in 4 MB though, and with one of the later patch kits (what are they called? "Service Pack" certainly not) it is a fairly stable system. 6.0.8, mentioned by others, is allegedly faster, but I have grown up with 7.1 and would rather use that myself. -- Juergen Nickelsen ###### From: greg@apple2.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Organization: II Infinitum References: User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: &@UA7$)=n9C7!qu%-5s},3tR@NEy+B>8PW"^,8?A>%."0{J2c1Yr]NKw';5/( J\r@/{UADjCdE~iRnOEOfbre(/1Y=$TS3Wt7B`a4sz, Lines: 34 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 13:05:32 CST X-Trace: sv2-FDVj2VZS1zHCpldK7RRFWnnf6wXtUaYDWG29Gk3tQOx+antYU8CZSvK4Iksw79T12P+DCCz4C8bbGsP!a7+O3q4Smh5oXQwB69gMm6+IoQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 13:05:47 -0600 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp2.giganews.com!news5.giganews.com.POSTED!greg Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49938 In article , Juergen Nickelsen wrote: >Howard S Shubs writes: >>greg@apple2.com wrote: >>> Are you sure? The Macintosh Plus has a very low maximum memory >>> limit. It maxes out at 4 MB of RAM. >> Yes, the Mac Plus is supposed to work up through 7.5.5. It's on >> the spec sheet. > Yes, you can run 7.5.5 (even 7.6) in 4 MB RAM. You just don't want > to. There is extremely little space for applications, and you can't > use most of the nicer festures of this version anyway. 7.6.1, while > faster than 7.5.5, crawls on my Classic II, which is much faster > than the Plus. > > 7.1 runs fine in 4 MB though, and with one of the later patch kits > (what are they called? "Service Pack" certainly not) it is a fairly > stable system. 6.0.8, mentioned by others, is allegedly faster, but > I have grown up with 7.1 and would rather use that myself. Well, I have to run 7.x on it myself as I will be running AppleShare 3.0 on it so I can play with that and my Apple IIgs booting over AppleShare. That is if I can keep it from destroying hard drives. Lost two 40 MB drives to the Mac Plus already, and I suspect shutting down did not park the heads. -- -- --- -- -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- -- --- --- ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus References: Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, NY From: aje9383@osfmail.isc.rit.edu (Andrew Erickson) NNTP-Posting-Host: grace.isc.rit.edu X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: grace.isc.rit.edu Message-ID: <38ab0e3b@news.isc.rit.edu> Date: 16 Feb 2000 15:53:15 -0500 X-Trace: 16 Feb 2000 15:53:15 -0500, grace.isc.rit.edu Lines: 59 XPident: aje9383 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.21.4.100 XPident: Unknown Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-MUC.ecrc.net!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!news.lightning.net!dilbert.ic.sunysb.edu!news-nysernet-16.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.isc.rit.edu!aje9383 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49963 In article , wrote: >In article , >Juergen Nickelsen wrote: >>Howard S Shubs writes: >>>greg@apple2.com wrote: > >>> Yes, the Mac Plus is supposed to work up through 7.5.5. It's on >>> the spec sheet. > >> Yes, you can run 7.5.5 (even 7.6) in 4 MB RAM. You just don't want >> to. There is extremely little space for applications, and you can't >> use most of the nicer festures of this version anyway. 7.6.1, while >> faster than 7.5.5, crawls on my Classic II, which is much faster >> than the Plus. >> >> 7.1 runs fine in 4 MB though, and with one of the later patch kits >> (what are they called? "Service Pack" certainly not) it is a fairly >> stable system. 6.0.8, mentioned by others, is allegedly faster, but >> I have grown up with 7.1 and would rather use that myself. 'System 7 tuner,' perhaps? At least, there was something like that for System 7.0 which (was rumored to) fix several bugs. System 6 has two advantages on a Mac Plus (and similar machines): 1. It is microscopically more responsive in certain areas. I generally think this is due to the finder not having to fetch funky icons that folders have and similar such things; I don't think the same actions take different amounts of time. Still, it often feels faster. 2. It allows applications to have significantly more memory, especially if multifinder is not used. For some things, this is a large factor in its favor; an application in System 6 can easily have 3.5 MB, but getting much more than 2.5 MB under System 7 is difficult, IIRC. Easy Access, although a major pain to use, allows more free memory than the finder under System 7. >Well, I have to run 7.x on it myself as I will be running AppleShare 3.0 >on it so I can play with that and my Apple IIgs booting over AppleShare. > >That is if I can keep it from destroying hard drives. Lost two 40 MB >drives to the Mac Plus already, and I suspect shutting down did not park >the heads. Methinks shutting down never parks the heads on any Mac computer; IIRC, there is no SCSI command to park heads. Virtually all SCSI drives will park heads on powerdown or after a period of inactivity, though--that's my understanding. I'd guess that the drives simply wore out. ObSelfAggrandizement: MacMinix runs on a Mac Plus. It is nicer to use if you get my direct-to-SCSI patch which changes the disk driver to use a partition on a SCSI disk (as opposed to a MacOS file), increasing the disk access speed substantially. -- Andrew Erickson ###### From: btomlin@NOSPAM.texas.net (Bruce Tomlin) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Macintosh Plus Message-ID: References: <38ab0e3b@news.isc.rit.edu> Organization: San Antonio, TX Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:49:26 CST X-Trace: sv2-Xy1eSsLmotJSHKJ+pdb2WrhpZnA/L+S354B6zdDP5D7wEzO1DVLRfSzW6lhQvXu0xb1wjPY1HV+LfSH!WPE6efrOOC4z22Cmut1L+Fo= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:49:58 -0600 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.grnet.gr!news-feed1.eu.concert.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp2.giganews.com!news5.giganews.com.POSTED!atuin.bruce!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:50027 In article <38ab0e3b@news.isc.rit.edu>, aje9383@osfmail.isc.rit.edu (Andrew Erickson) wrote: > In article , > wrote: > >That is if I can keep it from destroying hard drives. Lost two 40 MB > >drives to the Mac Plus already, and I suspect shutting down did not park > >the heads. > > Methinks shutting down never parks the heads on any Mac computer; IIRC, > there is no SCSI command to park heads. Virtually all SCSI drives will > park heads on powerdown or after a period of inactivity, though--that's > my understanding. Hard drives started auto-parking at 40 megabytes. So virtually all drives *larger than 40MB* will automatically park heads on spin-down.