From: destrip@see-below.no-SPAM.net (Doug the Desert Tripper) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 06:07:35 GMT Message-ID: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.239.213.103 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.239.213.103 X-Trace: 20 Jan 2000 22:07:48 -0800, 209.239.213.103 Lines: 27 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.63.224.240 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!news-west.eli.net!news.jps.net!209.239.213.103 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48363 (This actually belongs in a ng like "alt.computers.nostalgia" or "rec.antiques.computers" but I couldn't find any groups resembling these topics, so here goes... I heard a story on the radio today about some kiosks that were being installed in a So. California mall that would print out coupons, tell about places to go and things to see, etc. I thought, "That sounds just like the old Teleguide!" Around 1985-86, Teleguide kiosks were all around San Diego and San Francisco. (I'm not sure which other cities they were in.) In line with the computer technology of the time, they used simple but colorful cartoonlike graphics which drew and filled themselves slowly as you watched. I believe they also had touch-screens but my memory is fuzzy. I remember how fascinating it was to walk up to one of these kiosks while wandering around downtown San Fran in my Navy days and get instant directions to a particular shop or attraction. Does anyone remember these kiosks, or better yet is there anyone who actually was involved in the project? It would be interesting to know details on what type of computers were used, what networking topology was used, etc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Doug the Desert Tripper - Exploring Southern Cal deserts and the Net since '94 *Replace 'see-below.no-SPAM.net' with 'jps.net' to email me.* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ###### From: Chris Espinosa Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:34:11 -0800 Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Lines: 51 Message-ID: <3888B45E.BE62535F@apple.com> References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> Reply-To: cde@apple.com NNTP-Posting-Host: espichr2.apple.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.apple.com 948483167 25661 17.202.44.86 (21 Jan 2000 19:32:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.apple.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jan 2000 19:32:47 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!forum.apple.com!news.apple.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48480 Doug the Desert Tripper wrote: > > (This actually belongs in a ng like "alt.computers.nostalgia" or > "rec.antiques.computers" but I couldn't find any groups resembling > these topics, so here goes... > > I heard a story on the radio today about some kiosks that were being > installed in a So. California mall that would print out coupons, tell > about places to go and things to see, etc. > > I thought, "That sounds just like the old Teleguide!" > > Around 1985-86, Teleguide kiosks were all around San Diego and San > Francisco. (I'm not sure which other cities they were in.) In line > with the computer technology of the time, they used simple but > colorful cartoonlike graphics which drew and filled themselves slowly > as you watched. I believe they also had touch-screens but my memory > is fuzzy. I remember how fascinating it was to walk up to one of these > kiosks while wandering around downtown San Fran in my Navy days and > get instant directions to a particular shop or attraction. > > Does anyone remember these kiosks, or better yet is there anyone who > actually was involved in the project? It would be interesting to know > details on what type of computers were used, what networking topology > was used, etc. Ah, Teleguide. IIRC the technology was Videotext, which delivered digital data in-stream on cable TV channels. Videotext data is divided into a largish number of "pages", broadcast a page at a time along with the cable signal. A channel delivering Teletext can send 45 bytes of data per TV scan line per frame, but usually uses just 32 lines during VBL to avoid interfering with the picture. That gives a data rate of 70-90K bytes per second, which was fast compared to a 300bps modem. The terminals grabbed the desired page to display (using character and block graphics), and had a simple hyperlinking system to follow menu choices or go to the next page. It's still in use in Europe, I've seen it in hotel room in-house systems. Here's a link to a page full of related technologies: http://elektra.e-technik.uni-ulm.de/%7Embuck/vtx/links.html A basic technical description of the signaling is at: http://pdc.ro.nu/teletext.html I really don't know who ran the system in SF and SD, but I'd bet it was either the tourism bureaus or the cable TV companies. Chris ###### From: lwinson@bbs.cpcn.com (lwin) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: 21 Jan 2000 19:50:36 GMT Organization: The PACSIBM SIG BBS Lines: 7 Message-ID: <86adac$mc@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bbs.cpcn.com Originator: root@bbs.cpcn.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.fast.net!yellow.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!netaxs.newsread.com!bbs.cpcn.com!root Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48475 > (This actually belongs in a ng like "alt.computers.nostalgia" or > "rec.antiques.computers" but I couldn't find any groups resembling > these topics, so here goes... This is the correct newsgroup for that sort of thing. Please keep posts like that coming as they are interesting. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: 21 Jan 2000 23:28:15 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 82 Message-ID: <6u66wnjc00.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> <3888B45E.BE62535F@apple.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 948493695 800 10.0.3.2 (21 Jan 2000 22:28:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jan 2000 22:28:15 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48481 Chris Espinosa writes: With that name and mailserver: the first employee of Apple (the Steves are not employees)? > Doug the Desert Tripper wrote: > > > > with the computer technology of the time, they used simple but > > colorful cartoonlike graphics which drew and filled themselves slowly > > as you watched. I believe they also had touch-screens but my memory > > is fuzzy. I remember how fascinating it was to walk up to one of these > > Ah, Teleguide. IIRC the technology was Videotext, Does not sound like it. Videotext (name in Germany) or Teletext (Name nearly everywhere else) is an 40x25(?) char grid of ASCII and character cell graphics in the 8 primary colours (and optionally background with TV picture showing through) that gets filled on one go, usually after waiting quite a while (up to 1/2 minute). It has not touch screen but is rather controlled by a TVs remote (typing numbers). > which delivered > digital data in-stream on cable TV channels. Or the TV arial. The content is added by the TV station, not the cable system. Every station has its own content. Our cable supplier has their own pages - on their own pseudo-station. > Videotext data is divided > into a largish number of "pages", broadcast a page at a time along with > the cable signal. They are numberd with 3 digit identifiers. Page 100 is always the master index. 101 and [23456789]00 are sub indexes. > A channel delivering Teletext can send 45 bytes of > data per TV scan line per frame, but usually uses just 32 lines during > VBL to avoid interfering with the picture. That gives a data rate of > 70-90K bytes per second, which was fast compared to a 300bps modem. But it sends all pages linearly cyclically, so you have up to 1/2 min access time until your desired page returns. Better TVs (or software for PC TV cards such as BTTV) have enough RAM to store every page as it comes and then only use the transmitter as update feed. > The terminals grabbed the desired page to display (using character and > block graphics), and had a simple hyperlinking system to follow menu > choices or go to the next page. No hyperlinks. Just pages with 3 digit numbers, that are printed visibly and read and typed in by the user (for xxx page 523). > It's still in use in Europe, I've seen it in hotel room in-house > systems. It is available an ca 95% of all public TV channels (each channel its own page set) here in Europe. It has IMHO more uses than the Internet over here, as setup is extremely simple: plug in TV. And usage equal: type 3 digits on remote. > Here's a link to a page full of related technologies: > > http://elektra.e-technik.uni-ulm.de/%7Embuck/vtx/links.html > > A basic technical description of the signaling is at: > > http://pdc.ro.nu/teletext.html Thanks. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Unix Wizzard and Guru, Hacker, Roleplayer, Mystic Computer: toy that speeds work, so you have more time to play with it ###### From: Jim Stewart Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:41:22 -0800 Organization: http://www.jkmicro.com Lines: 59 Message-ID: <0BC955D94DA9D9DF.393DABC55D502B04.D478166A257BAC50@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: <3888C472.262163D5@jkmicro.com> References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> <3888B45E.BE62535F@apple.com> Reply-To: jstewart@jkmicro.com Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: 204.181.96.50 NNTP-Posting-Time: Fri Jan 21 14:37:02 2000 NNTP-Posting-Host: !cKk?1k-XAc5cR(&7g-9(LqNT (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp2.giganews.com!cabal14.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!usenet Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48492 Chris Espinosa wrote: > > Doug the Desert Tripper wrote: > > > > (This actually belongs in a ng like "alt.computers.nostalgia" or > > "rec.antiques.computers" but I couldn't find any groups resembling > > these topics, so here goes... > > > > I heard a story on the radio today about some kiosks that were being > > installed in a So. California mall that would print out coupons, tell > > about places to go and things to see, etc. > > > > I thought, "That sounds just like the old Teleguide!" > > > > Around 1985-86, Teleguide kiosks were all around San Diego and San > > Francisco. (I'm not sure which other cities they were in.) In line > > with the computer technology of the time, they used simple but > > colorful cartoonlike graphics which drew and filled themselves slowly > > as you watched. I believe they also had touch-screens but my memory > > is fuzzy. I remember how fascinating it was to walk up to one of these > > kiosks while wandering around downtown San Fran in my Navy days and > > get instant directions to a particular shop or attraction. > > > > Does anyone remember these kiosks, or better yet is there anyone who > > actually was involved in the project? It would be interesting to know > > details on what type of computers were used, what networking topology > > was used, etc. > > Ah, Teleguide. IIRC the technology was Videotext, which delivered > digital data in-stream on cable TV channels. Videotext data is divided > into a largish number of "pages", broadcast a page at a time along with > the cable signal. A channel delivering Teletext can send 45 bytes of > data per TV scan line per frame, but usually uses just 32 lines during > VBL to avoid interfering with the picture. That gives a data rate of > 70-90K bytes per second, which was fast compared to a 300bps modem. > > The terminals grabbed the desired page to display (using character and > block graphics), and had a simple hyperlinking system to follow menu > choices or go to the next page. > > It's still in use in Europe, I've seen it in hotel room in-house > systems. Here's a link to a page full of related technologies: > > http://elektra.e-technik.uni-ulm.de/%7Embuck/vtx/links.html > > A basic technical description of the signaling is at: > > http://pdc.ro.nu/teletext.html > > I really don't know who ran the system in SF and SD, but I'd bet it was > either the tourism bureaus or the cable TV companies. The SF system transported data on one of the local on-air network affiliate stations. I don't recall which one, but I do know it wasn't restricted to cable. Jim ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: wtshyman@mb.sympatico.ca Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Reply-To: wtshyman@NOUCE.mb.sympatico.ca Organization: No Unsolicited Commercial E-Mail, Please ! References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> <3888B45E.BE62535F@apple.com> <6u66wnjc00.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0 Lines: 37 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 00:30:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.200.59.68 X-Complaints-To: admin@mts.net X-Trace: news1.mts.net 948501000 205.200.59.68 (Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:30:00 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:30:00 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!cyclone.bc.net!news-in.mts.net!news1.mts.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48493 In <6u66wnjc00.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin writes: >Chris Espinosa writes: > >With that name and mailserver: the first employee of Apple (the Steves >are not employees)? > > >> Doug the Desert Tripper wrote: >> > >> > with the computer technology of the time, they used simple but >> > colorful cartoonlike graphics which drew and filled themselves slowly >> > as you watched. I believe they also had touch-screens but my memory >> > is fuzzy. I remember how fascinating it was to walk up to one of these >> >> Ah, Teleguide. IIRC the technology was Videotext, > >Does not sound like it. Videotext (name in Germany) or Teletext (Name >nearly everywhere else) is an 40x25(?) char grid of ASCII and >character cell graphics in the 8 primary colours (and optionally >background with TV picture showing through) that gets filled on one >go, usually after waiting quite a while (up to 1/2 minute). It has not >touch screen but is rather controlled by a TVs remote (typing numbers). This isn't the same sort of thing as Telidon, is it ? < A teletext scheme invented in Canada which seemed to fizzle out because it demanded a little too much of the hardware available at the time>. Telidon wasn't restricted to an ASCII character format and could do graphics as well, using all sorts of stunts to limit the amount of bandwidth required. I recall Telidon terminals in hotel lobbies, giving local interest information like events and attractions in the area...however, I don't know if the terminals I saw were hooked up to the phone or cable system, or were just playing a canned roster of screens from internal memory. This would have been '83-85 or there abouts. Bill ###### From: brucehoult@pobox.com (Bruce Hoult) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:00:56 +1300 Organization: The Internet Group Ltd Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> <3888B45E.BE62535F@apple.com> <6u66wnjc00.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: macinnat.static.star.net.nz X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!ihug.co.nz!brucehoult Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48511 In article <6u66wnjc00.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: > > A channel delivering Teletext can send 45 bytes of > > data per TV scan line per frame, but usually uses just 32 lines during > > VBL to avoid interfering with the picture. That gives a data rate of > > 70-90K bytes per second, which was fast compared to a 300bps modem. > > But it sends all pages linearly cyclically, so you have up to 1/2 min > access time until your desired page returns. Better TVs (or software > for PC TV cards such as BTTV) have enough RAM to store every page as > it comes and then only use the transmitter as update feed. Here in NZ, at least, the teletext pages are sent at different rates with the most popular pages being sent more often than the least popular (judged by who?) Pages in the 100-199 range always come up nearly instantly, while something like 537 might take quite a while to come up. -- Bruce ###### From: Ned Holbrook Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 04:26:16 -0500 Organization: NedWeb Heavy Industries Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> <3888B45E.BE62535F@apple.com> <6u66wnjc00.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: new-hamp-bp-182.dartmouth.edu X-Trace: merrimack.Dartmouth.EDU 948533172 26112 129.170.108.182 (22 Jan 2000 09:26:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@Dartmouth.EDU NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jan 2000 09:26:12 GMT Mail-Copies-To: poster User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: 4sx$YUe#v'|&_+SwB7*{hy1Rb,03L5DM_U)nbQ{gz$$G2WbyOuofM, Neil Franklin wrote: >With that name and mailserver: the first employee of Apple (the Steves >are not employees)? I'm pretty sure the Steves would take exception to that statement, being numbers 1 and 2 (Wozniak and Jobs[1], respectively). [1]: The gawdawful _Pirates of Silicon Valley_ probably has the American public believing Jobs is employee number 0, but when was the last time you believed what you heard on teevee anyway? -- Ned Holbrook http://web.dartmouth.edu/~holbrook/ ned@kagi.com * The Electric Mayhem World Tour '96 *** The Electric Mayhem World Tour '96 * ###### From: Cthulhu Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: 22 Jan 2000 13:28:57 GMT Organization: Great Ancient Lines: 26 Message-ID: <86cbap$k2$1@kadath.deep.it> References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> <3888B45E.BE62535F@apple.com> <6u66wnjc00.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip001.pool-03.flashnet.it X-Trace: news.flashnet.it 948558328 1748 195.191.3.2 (22 Jan 2000 16:25:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@flashnet.it NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jan 2000 16:25:28 GMT User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990927 ("Nine While Nine") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.6 (i486)) Originator: cthulhu@kadath.deep.it Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!newsfeeder.flashnet.it!news.flashnet.it!kadath.deep.it!cthulhu Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48488 Neil Franklin wrote: > It is available an ca 95% of all public TV channels (each channel its > own page set) here in Europe. It has IMHO more uses than the Internet > over here, as setup is extremely simple: plug in TV. And usage equal: > type 3 digits on remote. It is widely used in Italy, but we call it Televideo. We have 3 public channels (RAI, which we pay for, private channels are free), first two are national, third is national/country related. They have a national Televideo, and a bunch of contry Televideos. And they made a web page (http://www.televideo.rai.it/) from where you can use them, without a TV. :) zapping, Cthulhu P.S.: and than I did a perl script to convert that pages in WAP/WML, since they wanted to watch Televideo on their WAP terminals... -- Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu http://www.rlyeh.it wgah'nagl fhtgan! ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: 23 Jan 2000 00:16:40 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 20 Message-ID: <6uogad8zon.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> <3888B45E.BE62535F@apple.com> <6u66w njc00.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 948583000 1000 10.0.3.2 (22 Jan 2000 23:16:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jan 2000 23:16:40 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48537 Ned Holbrook writes: > In article <6u66wnjc00.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin > wrote: > > >With that name and mailserver: the first employee of Apple (the Steves > >are not employees)? > > I'm pretty sure the Steves would take exception to that statement, being > numbers 1 and 2 (Wozniak and Jobs[1], respectively). The Steves are (or were at least at that time) not employees, but rather owners. Yes, they also worked there, but different economic situation (this would obviously be before incorporating the firm). -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Unix Wizzard and Guru, Hacker, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, Mystic Computer: toy that speeds work, so you have more time to play with it ###### From: bill_h Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:52:46 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 39 Message-ID: <388A972E.37F5@sunsouthwest.com> References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> <3888B45E.BE62535F@apple.com> Reply-To: bill_h@sunsouthwest.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48553 Chris Espinosa wrote: > > Doug the Desert Tripper wrote: > > I heard a story on the radio today about some kiosks that were being > > installed in a So. California mall that would print out coupons, tell > > about places to go and things to see, etc. > > > > I thought, "That sounds just like the old Teleguide!" > Ah, Teleguide. IIRC the technology was Videotext, which delivered > digital data in-stream on cable TV channels. Videotext data is divided > into a largish number of "pages", broadcast a page at a time along with > the cable signal. A channel delivering Teletext can send 45 bytes of > data per TV scan line per frame, but usually uses just 32 lines during > VBL to avoid interfering with the picture. That gives a data rate of > 70-90K bytes per second, which was fast compared to a 300bps modem. There was something like this 'tested' in the Boston area, later turned up on cable (at least, those owned by Jones) as well as via Big Ugly (satellite) Dish (BUD). One name connected with it would be ''X*PRESS Information Services''. There was a data modem in a plug-in cartridge and either a cable version or a BUD version box to plug it into. The BUD version box plugged into the Video Cipher II ''Data'' jack (in case anyone was wondering what ever that jack was for!). Carried stock prices, news, and, at one time, software, much like (from what I've heard) Direct TV/PC does now.... only a lot slower. The Video Cipher, a GI product, uses a microcontroller to extract all sorts of things from both Horizontal and Vertical blanking intervals as well as the several lines (of our 525 line system) at the top of the screen that you normally never see - they're not picture, they're data anyway. Bill Tucson ###### From: benh@lsl.co.uk (Ben Hutchings) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: 24 Jan 2000 14:00:32 GMT Organization: Laser-Scan Ltd. Lines: 34 Message-ID: <86hlu0$m9b$1@relay.lsl.co.uk> References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> <3888B45E.BE62535F@apple.com> <6u66wnjc00.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.9.200.129 X-Server-Date: 24 Jan 2000 14:00:32 GMT X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!easynet-tele!easynet.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!warm.news.pipex.net!pipex!fuse.lsl.co.uk!benh Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48606 Neil Franklin (neil@franklin.ch.remove) wrote: : > Videotext data is divided : > into a largish number of "pages", broadcast a page at a time along with : > the cable signal. : They are numberd with 3 digit identifiers. Page 100 is always the : master index. 101 and [23456789]00 are sub indexes. No, the pages are divided into 8 "magazines" with up to 256 pages, each of which can have its own index. The first digit is the magazine number 1-8 and the other digits are the page number 00-FF. Only digits 0-9 can be entered using a remote control. Four colour-coded "Fastext" links can be included in a page, and these can link to pages using digits A-F. This can be used to hide pages for quizzes - the viewer can only move on by selecting the correct coloured button on the remote. : > A channel delivering Teletext can send 45 bytes of : > data per TV scan line per frame, but usually uses just 32 lines during : > VBL to avoid interfering with the picture. That gives a data rate of : > 70-90K bytes per second, which was fast compared to a 300bps modem. : But it sends all pages linearly cyclically, so you have up to 1/2 min : access time until your desired page returns. Better TVs (or software : for PC TV cards such as BTTV) have enough RAM to store every page as : it comes and then only use the transmitter as update feed. Many TVs pre-cache the pages referred to by the Fastext links on the current page. -- Any opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of Laser-Scan. ###### From: paul@shippo.virgin.net (Paul Grayson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:05:02 +0000 Organization: Virgin Net Usenet Service Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> <3888B45E.BE62535F@apple.com> <6u66wnjc00.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Reply-To: paul.grayson@virgin.net NNTP-Posting-Host: p28-starling-gui.tch.virgin.net X-Trace: nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net 948757928 27271 194.168.74.88 (24 Jan 2000 23:52:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@virgin.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jan 2000 23:52:08 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.7 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!paul Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48697 On 21 Jan 2000 23:28:15 +0100, Neil Franklin muttered: >It is available an ca 95% of all public TV channels (each channel its >own page set) here in Europe. It has IMHO more uses than the Internet >over here, as setup is extremely simple: plug in TV. And usage equal: >type 3 digits on remote. > When the ITV/Channel4 teletext franchise still belonged to Oracle, there were a number of test pages on Channel4 that would demonstrate additional textext facilities, only some of which were available on my 1988 vintage television. I recall national language switching being available, giving a few different currency symbols and accented characters. There was also support for additional text styles and some graphics, which my set didn't support. -- Paul Grayson, Ripon, North Yorkshire, UK. Bill Gates - makes Jeffrey Archer look like a honest man. ###### From: paul@shippo.virgin.net (Paul Grayson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:11:54 +0000 Organization: Virgin Net Usenet Service Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> <3888B45E.BE62535F@apple.com> Reply-To: paul.grayson@virgin.net NNTP-Posting-Host: p28-starling-gui.tch.virgin.net X-Trace: nclient13-gui.server.virgin.net 948757929 27271 194.168.74.88 (24 Jan 2000 23:52:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@virgin.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jan 2000 23:52:09 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.7 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!paul Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48693 On Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:34:11 -0800, Chris Espinosa muttered: >Ah, Teleguide. IIRC the technology was Videotext, which delivered >digital data in-stream on cable TV channels. Videotext data is divided >into a largish number of "pages", broadcast a page at a time along with >the cable signal. A channel delivering Teletext can send 45 bytes of >data per TV scan line per frame, but usually uses just 32 lines during >VBL to avoid interfering with the picture. That gives a data rate of >70-90K bytes per second, which was fast compared to a 300bps modem. > I've seen systems like this in the UK. There used to be an extensive system in Leeds IIRC, but it didn't last too long. I remember seeing one in York during the past 2 years, and it may still be there. This system was primarily used for looking up local bus timetables. Ones in the UK were probably based upon the BBC micro, which was capable of using the videotext/teletext video mode. There is also a simillar system outside my local tourist infomation centre, but I think that this uses something better than the videodata character set. I'll have a look when I pass it later this evening. Teletext itself is still very popular in the UK, and is the only free infomation source. All the major terestial television channels carry a service, and the majority of satellite systems do as well. If I want to view the national or local news or sports results, I can get it almost instantly from teletext 24 hours a day. I even use it to syncronise my systems clock. -- Paul Grayson, Ripon, North Yorkshire, UK. Bill Gates - makes Jeffrey Archer look like a honest man. ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> X-Disclaimer: Everything I write is false. Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 27 Jan 2000 10:32:01 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 9 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 27 Jan 2000 11:17:15 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!feeder.via.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48894 destrip@see-below.no-SPAM.net (Doug the Desert Tripper) writes: > Around 1985-86, Teleguide kiosks were all around San Diego and San > Francisco. (I'm not sure which other cities they were in.) In line > with the computer technology of the time, they used simple but > colorful cartoonlike graphics which drew and filled themselves slowly > as you watched. Sounds like NAPLPS, the standard for which was withdrawn by ANSI a few years ago. ###### From: benc@krustbustr.benzone.org (Ben Clifford) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:07:45 +0000 Organization: benZone Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> <3888B45E.BE62535F@apple.com> Reply-To: benc@benzone.freeserve.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-110.eressea.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk 949313059 6468 62.136.199.110 (31 Jan 2000 10:04:19 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Jan 2000 10:04:19 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!benc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48914 On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:11:54 +0000, Paul Grayson wrote: >Teletext itself is still very popular in the UK, and is the only free >infomation source. All the major terestial television channels carry a >service, and the majority of satellite systems do as well. To be picky, I believe you need a television license to get teletext, so is not free. And of course a television... Ben ###### From: benc@krustbustr.benzone.org (Ben Clifford) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Anyone remember the old "Teleguide" Kiosks? Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:57:28 +0000 Organization: benZone Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <3887f579.2114995@news.jps.net> <3888B45E.BE62535F@apple.com> <6u66wnjc00.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Reply-To: benc@benzone.freeserve.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-110.eressea.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk 949313060 6468 62.136.199.110 (31 Jan 2000 10:04:20 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Jan 2000 10:04:20 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!benc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:48922 On 21 Jan 2000 23:28:15 +0100, Neil Franklin wrote: >> Videotext data is divided >> into a largish number of "pages", broadcast a page at a time along with >> the cable signal. > >They are numberd with 3 digit identifiers. Page 100 is always the >master index. 101 and [23456789]00 are sub indexes. Channel 4 in GB started at 400. >> The terminals grabbed the desired page to display (using character and >> block graphics), and had a simple hyperlinking system to follow menu >> choices or go to the next page. > >No hyperlinks. Just pages with 3 digit numbers, that are printed >visibly and read and typed in by the user (for xxx page 523). They introduced a primitive sort-of hyperlink system here - each page could specify 4 other pages, colour coded red, green, blue, yellow, which would be called up by pressing the relevant colour coded buttons on the television remote-control. Ben