From: mwandel@nortel.ca (Markus Wandel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Where are the PDP10 / ITS emulators? Date: 5 Feb 2000 16:47:48 GMT Organization: Nortel Lines: 18 Message-ID: <87hk7k$eb1$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: wcars0mc.ca.nortel.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!logbridge.uoregon.edu!!nrchh45.us.nortel.com!zcarh46f.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.ca.nortel.com!bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49364 One cannot do very much reading about computer folklore without stumbling upon the early MIT hacker stuff documented in the first part of Steven Levy's "Hackers" among other places. Invariably as people like me say it's all been done before, and better, in Unix, the even older crowd says Unix is for clueless newbies and it was all done better before in ITS. Now I know why ITS died and Unix didn't: Because ITS was not portable and the PDP10 architecture went extinct. Big deal. My consumer-quality PC could probably emulate a PDP10 in portable C and still have it (the emulated machine) run faster than the real thing did. So why don't I see any PDP10 emulators and ITS revival movements? I for one think it's WAY cool to be able to run 7th Edition Unix on a PDP11 emulator, even when it has no practical value. Markus ###### From: "Kevin Murrell" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <87hk7k$eb1$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> Subject: Re: Where are the PDP10 / ITS emulators? Lines: 33 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 07:36:33 -0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.250.140.78 X-Complaints-To: abuse@net.ntl.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 949822492 212.250.140.78 (Sun, 06 Feb 2000 07:34:52 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 07:34:52 GMT Organization: ntl: Internet News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49344 Bob Supnik's the man. Have a look at http://www.pdp11.org/ Bob's emulators are excellent, and I believe the images of Unix are also available from the same site. Have fun. Kevin Murrell Markus Wandel wrote in message news:87hk7k$eb1$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com... > One cannot do very much reading about computer folklore without stumbling > upon the early MIT hacker stuff documented in the first part of Steven > Levy's "Hackers" among other places. Invariably as people like me say it's > all been done before, and better, in Unix, the even older crowd says Unix > is for clueless newbies and it was all done better before in ITS. > > Now I know why ITS died and Unix didn't: Because ITS was not portable and > the PDP10 architecture went extinct. > > Big deal. My consumer-quality PC could probably emulate a PDP10 in portable > C and still have it (the emulated machine) run faster than the real thing > did. > > So why don't I see any PDP10 emulators and ITS revival movements? I for > one think it's WAY cool to be able to run 7th Edition Unix on a PDP11 > emulator, even when it has no practical value. > > Markus ###### From: rnewman@thecia.net (Ron Newman) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Where are the PDP10 / ITS emulators? Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 03:14:28 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <87hk7k$eb1$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-038.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!rnewman Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49373 In article , "Kevin Murrell" wrote: > Bob Supnik's the man. Have a look at http://www.pdp11.org/ > > Bob's emulators are excellent, and I believe the images of Unix are also > available from the same site. But ITS ran on a PDP-10, not a PDP-11. -- Ron Newman rnewman@thecia.net http://www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: mbg@world.std.com (Megan) Subject: Re: Where are the PDP10 / ITS emulators? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 17:22:43 GMT References: <87hk7k$eb1$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Lines: 35 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!world!mbg Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49392 "Kevin Murrell" writes: >Bob Supnik's the man. Have a look at http://www.pdp11.org/ >Bob's emulators are excellent, and I believe the images of Unix are also >available from the same site. Yes, but the collection of emulators by him does NOT include one for the pdp-10... The correct pointer for his stuff is: ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/digital/sim/sources (V2.3d is the current version of his package) and ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/digital/sim/software (licenses for running the software under the emulators *only* are included) As for pdp-10 emulators, there are a number of efforts which are ongoing at the present time. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ ###### From: hsnewman@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Where are the PDP10 / ITS emulators? Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:41:33 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 69 Message-ID: <87ne6c$7q4$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <87hk7k$eb1$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.241.169.11 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Feb 07 21:41:33 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 PROXY:5000, 1.0 x34.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 38.241.169.11 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDhsnewman Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.cwix.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49394 In article , "Kevin Murrell" wrote: > Bob Supnik's the man. Have a look at http://www.pdp11.org/ > > Bob's emulators are excellent, and I believe the images of Unix are also > available from the same site. > > Have fun. > > Kevin Murrell > > Markus Wandel wrote in message > news:87hk7k$eb1$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com... > > One cannot do very much reading about computer folklore without stumbling > > upon the early MIT hacker stuff documented in the first part of Steven > > Levy's "Hackers" among other places. Invariably as people like me say > it's > > all been done before, and better, in Unix, the even older crowd says Unix > > is for clueless newbies and it was all done better before in ITS. > > > > Now I know why ITS died and Unix didn't: Because ITS was not portable and > > the PDP10 architecture went extinct. > > > > Big deal. My consumer-quality PC could probably emulate a PDP10 in > portable > > C and still have it (the emulated machine) run faster than the real thing > > did. > > > > So why don't I see any PDP10 emulators and ITS revival movements? Actually, there are several pdp10 emulators underway, see my homepage at www.blkbox.com/~hsnewman to check them out. Of them, I know of: mimix (extinct) KLH's Stu Grossman's Daniel Seagraves' Megan Gentry's None of which are public domain. The OS's are published on: http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/ Bringing up these historical systems would be a real accomplishment, and a great asset in that the OS is far superior to anything nowdays, esp WinDOS. -HN I for > > one think it's WAY cool to be able to run 7th Edition Unix on a PDP11 > > emulator, even when it has no practical value. > > > > Markus > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### Reply-To: "SMORT INC." From: "SMORT INC." Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <87hk7k$eb1$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> Subject: Re: Where are the PDP10 / ITS emulators? Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 06:23:54 +1100 Lines: 57 Organization: I HATE JUNK MAIL AND MLM CORPORATION X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.101.112.114 Message-ID: <38a1bf58@pink.one.net.au> X-Trace: 10 Feb 2000 06:26:16 +1000, 203.101.112.114 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!newsfeed.nyc.globix.net!uunet!nyc.uu.net!lax.uu.net!pink.one.net.au!203.101.112.114 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.folklore.computers:49553 I read an excellent book many years back called "CYBERPUNK" had an interesting history of the pdp10 and the 11... However the book was written around how they where hacked. -- ICQ DANTAN UIN 12024426 EMAIL: dantan1@telstra.com ICQ ACTIVE List TASMANIA TALKING #52723669 AOL instant pager name: - smortaus http://www.icq.com/12024426 pager http://sites.netscape.net/smortaus/homepage http://web.one.net.au/~dantan/ **************************************************************************** ******* Kevin Murrell wrote in message news:wu9n4.106$Ky2.942@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com... > Bob Supnik's the man. Have a look at http://www.pdp11.org/ > > Bob's emulators are excellent, and I believe the images of Unix are also > available from the same site. > > Have fun. > > Kevin Murrell > > Markus Wandel wrote in message > news:87hk7k$eb1$1@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com... > > One cannot do very much reading about computer folklore without stumbling > > upon the early MIT hacker stuff documented in the first part of Steven > > Levy's "Hackers" among other places. Invariably as people like me say > it's > > all been done before, and better, in Unix, the even older crowd says Unix > > is for clueless newbies and it was all done better before in ITS. > > > > Now I know why ITS died and Unix didn't: Because ITS was not portable and > > the PDP10 architecture went extinct. > > > > Big deal. My consumer-quality PC could probably emulate a PDP10 in > portable > > C and still have it (the emulated machine) run faster than the real thing > > did. > > > > So why don't I see any PDP10 emulators and ITS revival movements? I for > > one think it's WAY cool to be able to run 7th Edition Unix on a PDP11 > > emulator, even when it has no practical value. > > > > Markus > >